| Author | Message | ||
     John Pierri |
Hi there my name is John I was a member of the penticostal church in Australia known as the Revival Centre. I was a member there for 18 years but came to understand that I was in a group that used destructive mind control techniques. I left two years ago and have been trying to reshape my life and most importantly find out who I really am. Some of their policies included not associating with christians of other churches because they were backsliden and evil. They were the only saved in the whole world and everyone else was evil. You weren't allowed to talk to exmembers they were known as backsliders. No questioning of the ministers and their decisdions. Books of a religious nature had to be approved by the pastor. No more than 6 people out together at someones house. Women were not encouraged to follow a career. You were not encouraged to follow a career in the medical proffession as we relied on the power of God to heal and so on. Once I started to question certain policies and finaly started to think for myself the pastor was not happy being questioned the upshot of it all I was asked to leave, infact I was ready to leave anyway. Rebuilding my life in the world as we called it has been a strugle to say the least. Socialising, interacting with people I had considered evil was a new experiance but I slowly was able to make new friends and have a bit of fun. There was so much that happened for me to get to this point space and time won't allow but I felt to let someone hear my story, bye for now. | ||
| Anonymous |
Congratulations -- Welcome to the outside world! | ||
| lita |
john,I also had a similar experience and i also said good buy to that religion. I have two sisters that are still in it. One stayed at the church where I was going and doesn't talk to me anymore than 5 minutes about nothing. If i attempt to tell her anything about the church or doctrin she leaves and goes and tells the pastor(you were right the devils trying to make her get me out too) the other sister got married and gos to another church same religion and claims that its way different, but she hides coverup make up from her husband and where dresses ands such even when she doesn't really believe in it, so you see theres different degrees of brainwashed people in this religeion and some of its churches are more controlling than others according to the leader which is the pastor | ||
| adam shaw and dennis brown |
Once again folks you have missed the point. Just because there are certain people in a particular organization who commit imoral and un-Godly acts, does that mean that the entire organization is at fault? Just because Bill Clinton was a part of American society, does that mean that all of American society is accountable for his actions?? Is your denomination perfect? Have you ever heard of a minister or a church member doing something un-Christian like? I think the important point to make, is do not judge the denomination but seek God for yourself within the context of the Bible. As a member of the United Pentecostal Church I do not have my blinders on. It is certaintly not a perfect organisation. Comparitavely, I have never heard of an organisation, religious or not, that has not gone through its own set of tribulations. Personally, I subscribe to the doctrine we hold because it is literalist. What attracted me was the fact they look at the whole Bible and don't pick and choose. That being said, one thing we must look at, is that the UPC believes wholeheartedly in the autonomy of the local congregation. The congregation elects its own ministers, writes its own constitution, and, for any reason has the right to dismiss elected officials (i.e. the Pastor). In other words the local church is self-governing. The local church's connection to the UPC is based upon the subscribing to a certain belief system and also through the pastor's submission to a governing presbytry. Therefore, realising the self-governing nature of the local church, it is a given that in the UPC there will be a minority who abuse their position as a minister. Just like in elementary school, out of all the wonderful teachers I had, there was the one who was mean and unfair. And to be honest, if we were perfect we would have been Jesus. So back to your original question. Why are we a cult? Was Christianity not a cult at first? Is Christianity still a cult in some parts of the world? I would love to invite you to dissect all of the doctrine of the church. If you can find one principle in there, that does not come from the word of God (IN THE BIBLE), I would absolutely love to hear about it. I too, thought that Pentecostals were a cult. The thing that we have to rid from our minds, is this idea of denomination. What are you looking for? Are you looking for a personal relationshiop with Jesus? Or are you looking to hold on to a denominational belief system? I feel not obligated nor compelled to stay with a United Pentecostal church. I am here to have personal relationship with Christ. If you can show me another denomionation that hungers for the truth as these folks do, please come forward and share your doctrine. To those who have been hurt, I implore you do not lose your faith in the One who saved you. Don't let the actions of a church or a person affect your relationship with Jesus. If you never again step foot into a United Pentecostal Church, make sure you still keep your relationship with Christ. I love you and am praying for you, adam shaw and Dennis Brown | ||
| Anonymous |
I'm a former UPCI Minister. By the grace of God I'm no longer a member of this heretical group. They deny the Trinity, the Finish work of Calvary, the doctrine of Grace, teach you must speak in tongues & be baptize in Jesus Name to be saved. I wonder how the deaf can speak in tongues? God makes it clear in Scripture how to be saved "John 3:16, Acts 2:21, 4:12, 16:30-31, Romans 10:9-10." We are to be believe in Jesus, and its only by God's grace anyone is saved "not by their made up works," Ephesians 2:1-9. Yes, the Oneness Movement is heretical, and the United Pentecostal Church is a cult!!!!! | ||
| woodrowsteadman |
i too am a minister of a pentacostal CHURCH. i neither beleive the false teachings of the cultic upc or the apostolic CHURCHES. to say one has to be baptised in order to be save or to say one must speak in tongues in order to be save is a false teaching. it is putting other things in place of JESUS CHRIST and HIS BLOOD which is the only means of being saved. trusting in HIS NAME woodrow steadman | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
My supervisor at work is also a member of the UPC. She is the most self exalted, judgemental, person I think I have ever met. She has a very ugly disposition and when I cut my long hair, more or less told me I couldn't possibly be a christian! Why doesn't someone tell these poor people how misguided they are. Why don't they read the WORD! Man is FALLIBLE! The word is not. Seek wisdom! Praise God The Father, The Son, and The Holy Ghost! | ||
| azoneness (67.3.213.58) |
I was in a oneness church for only a very short time, I saw very quickly the abusivness of the leaders, with a smile I might add. And I saw the huge doctrinal errors, almost right away. Actually it amazes me that anyone who reads the bible could fall for the Oneness teaching at all. But what I have come to realize lately is that in the Oneness Church there is not guaratee of being saved, you can be tossed into hell at any given moment for the smallest of error. Anyone that has left this group, please tell me about your experience, I am writting a book on the whole thing, and testimonies are great. | ||
| azoneness (67.3.234.189) |
Hi Did this thread die? | ||
| Anonymous (68.119.47.6) |
i dont see how any one can be so deceived as to son JESUS.. JESUS was in the water...ay that JESUS is THE FATHER and/or THE HOLY GHOST. JESUS prayed to SOME ONE and that SOME ONE was THE FATHER.also when john was baptising JESUS ther came a VOICE from heaven.. THE HOLY GHOST came down now that is three i dont care how you slice it. the upc is a cult | ||
| Anonymous (64.136.27.227) |
I totally believe in Oneness and always will!! Why? Because God showed it to me, not man. I am far from perfect but I would stay home and never attend any church before I would give up believing in Oneness. I do realize people themselves are not perfect, but no man is. People do let us down, but God does not. I think the biggest problem within many churches is the lack of love they show to others. There was no such thing as trinity until the Catholics made it. Yes, as Jesus said, my father and I are one, so they can all be the same. But actually my point in posting in this thread that seems to be gone anyway is just to say, there is a big difference when God shows you rather than man. And I know God will not show one person trinity while showing the other person oneness so I guess we shall just all have to wait to see which one is correct as God is not the author of confusion and He does not contradict Himself so most definitely one is wrong. | ||
| Trent Shel (216.136.103.194) |
LOL - this thread is amazing! Why waste so much time "trashing" a faith/doctrine/denomination simply because you don't believe it's doctrine? How is that remotely productive? What is that supposed to accomplish? Obviously some have been exposed to 'individual' churches that may (or may not) have taught things in error. The actions of a few don't condemn the whole group. Let he who is perfect cast the first stone. No doubt there are some obsessive members who don't handle themselves in the best manner and thus misrepresent their respective churches and the fellowship as a whole. Again, be careful before casting stones or judging. To the former UPCI minister, you should really be careful about casting stones. You now denounce what you once professed as truth? You now attempt to trash and discredit a faith that you once supported and promoted? No offense, but how much confidence should we place in your opinion - what if you're wrong now? And for the record, are you implying that no deaf have ever spoken in tongues? As you should know, many deaf speak daily in their native tongues, thus it's safe to assume they can equally speak in other tongues as well. Perhaps you meant mute instead of deaf? And do you thus mean that God can't enable a mute to speak? Is he not able to do such a thing? To the lady w/ the UPC supervisor. If her attitude is wrong - forgive her! That's the Christian thing to do! And yes, man is fallible. But man's fallibility dosn't excuse man from obeying the word of God. In the end, we're judged by the word, not opinions or doctrines. And yes, we should seek wisdom and desire to know the whole truth. Regarding the oneness movement being cultic, that is hilarious! If you don't understand or simply don't agree with it - fine! But don't trash a entire body of believers and express your ignorance by calling it a cult! Oneness believers number over 18 million across the world! That hardly falls within the definitions of a cult! So think before you speak. What's interesting is that someone will probably take the time to argue with what I've said here without taking the time to reflect upon my statements. And they're going to lecture me about something they know nothing about! | ||
| Tamera Kwist (149.161.224.29) |
I joined a UPC church for a while but had the following "issues" -they kept trying to convince me that I wasn't saved because I did not speak in tongues (however 21 years prior to this, when I was 7 years old my father went over Romans 10: 9 with me... "If you confess with your mouth" etc. and we prayed together. After I accepted the Lord I felt a warmth wash over me from head to toe. I had been touched by God or something, the UPC said I only had a taste of the Holy Ghost but was not yet "saved") -The Pastor often preached that we (the congregation) didn't belong anywhere else except church when there were services being held... that was almost every night of the week. -The Pastor said if you didn't come up for the altar call then you were "resisting the Holy Spirit." Resist? I wondered. The Lord never called me to go up there so I just stayed in my pew and prayed silently, and yet wondered what others thought of me because I didn't go up to the altar. -Dress code, hair code... When I joined I took my children to Goodwill and I got myself and my daughter a bunch of skirts and dresses so we would fit in... immediately after, my daughter grew about six inches within the next couple months and I began to feel increasingly uncomfortable... and I can't grow my daughters hair out long. Its very fine and brittle. I began to lose hope that we would ever "fit in" -One service I made it up to the altar, I was crying and apologizing to God, not praying out loud, mind you. But I said I was sorry for whatever it was I did wrong that he would not give me the gift of speaking in tongues. But then I realized I had done nothing wrong except... Trying so hard to do everyting right so the church would accept me... the church... not God. After leaving the UPCI I became disgruntled as a Christian. I kept telling the Lord, I know you exist but now I am confused about what to believe. I know you'll show me the truth. The truth is in the word of God. If theres one thing I learned is not to depend on other peoples interpretation of the Bible, but read it for yourself and see if the churchs belief system fully measure up to the word of God. In the case of legalism, the book of Galations is very useful. I know I am saved by faith in Christ alone. I can't be "good enough". No one can except the Lord himself. Theres a verse in a Greg Long song says "I know now when heaven looks at me, its through the blood of Jesus." I am glad God does not expect perfection from me, because I'd fail miserably at that. And I think that some people expect more from us than the God who made us does. | ||
| Niquilla (204.187.76.3) |
tHIS IS FOR TRENT SHEL I think yu should practice what yu preach before explaining who wastes who time on here with the " doctrine" | ||
| prefernottosay (208.251.17.196) |
I grew up in the UPCI organization. My father and mother still have a church in it. I have not gone to church in over two years, and for years before that I just pretended to be involved. I also went to a UPCI bible college for less than a year, needless to say that didn't work out very well. I remember that most of the men were sincere in their beliefs, but quite a few of them that I had dates with wanted nothing more than to get you alone. It was kind of sad actually to think that most of those men ended up marrying "innocent" girls from that school. During all this time, my self esteem was at an all time low. I had a series of hormone changes that caused my face to really break out. One night, I had to perform in front of a lot of people. I had used a very translucent powder on my face to try to cover up the break outs. This one lady who worked for the college came right up to me and said "Is that POWDER on your face@!?" I told her it was and she told me I must immediately go to the bathroom and wash it off. I am sorry, but I just don't believe that God would keep someone out of heaven just for trying to cover a blemish. Anyway, I have had a bad taste in mouth for years. The guilt you carry with you everyday is something you cannot get away from. I just wish I had never been brought up this way, then I could be a normal christian. | ||
| Anonymous (205.188.117.20) |
I have a friend who is deeply involved in a UPC church, and I must say after having known her before she converted, this organization changes people. Sure a genuine desire to seek God is a beautiful thing, but to fully fall into a pit of religious ignorance. The outside world doesn't seem to exist to the members of this denomination. The mere sight of a woman outfitted in trousers and a short haircut sends some into fits of horror, or into speeches of pity for their souls. While attending a UPC church I myself fell witness to a conversation between two women in the church including the phrase, and I quote " those two young ladies were standing around like harlots in their tight jeans". Unbeknownst to them they had made that comment to me, a non-UPC member. But because I looked the part( I have long hair, was wearing a skirt and no makeup), they accepted me. Let us not forget that Jesus called us to love one another as he loved us. Jesus himself spent time with whores, was hung next to a theif, and even lepers. But no, the simple sight of lipstick laden lips slowly opens the gates of hell. Hair length is the last thing on God's mind. I believe there's a reason God allows hair to fall out! Or how does one explain African American hair that doesn't grow down the length of the back. The oneness doctrine in and of itself is corrupting the very nature of God, denying exactly who he is, borderline blasphemy. Matthew 3:16,17. II Corinthians 13:14. Colossians 2:9. Take a look. For a group that takes the bible so literally passages such as these which are innumerable in number are greatly overlooked. Obviously!Who wants to be told they're wrong. We need to pray for those so caught up in the tongue talking, holy rolling, crying, weeping, and pray that they get to know the real God. I lastly want to speak on the writer who posed the question about deaf people speaking in tongues. Thank God someone else has made that observation. Or the mentally ill, these people have the innocence of children and God blesses those who have the innocence of a child. | ||
| JOE COX (209.214.18.106) |
HI TRENT SHEL,I LOVED YOUR POSTING AND IT WAS VERY REFRESHING AND TO THE POINT.I BELIVE YOU PUT EVERYTHING IN THE RIGHT CONTEXT,WHICH IS TELLING THE TRUTH.AND I REALLY FEEL SORRY FOR THE PASTOR THAT THAT DENIED THE TRUTH,OR MAYBE HE,S NOT WHO HE SAYS HE IS.I PRAY THAT YOU WILL PUT SOME MORE POSTINGS OUT THERE,A FRINED IN THE LORD.JOE C. | ||
| robert (134.68.175.169) |
http://www.geocities.com/ministryofdreams/ end time visions and dreams from Jesus | ||
| Anonymous (192.116.124.2) |
iam a born again child of God from Cameroon ,i like having a friend from australia who is also a born again child of God from a penticostal church whom we can both share visions and ideas in the ministry.i have known the Lord for almost 16yrs now,and for 11yrs now i have been bless to get married to a pastor,we both are servants of the Lord.i will end here for now and will like to hear back from u .Thanks and may the Lord bless u. | ||
| Anonymous (24.70.178.211) |
Please if anyone out there knows of a Pastor CHARLES ROBERTS would you post any info you have as I am running out of time and ideas of how to bring my daughter back from the prison he has created for her as a member of his cult. | ||
| turtle (turtle) Junior Member Username: turtle Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 216.24.102.37 |
Has anyone ever heard of United Christian Church and Ministrial Association - Richard Hall. Someone told me he was Jesus Only which from what I can tell from information I found is the same as Pencostal Oneness. | ||
| rockin4jesus (rockin4jesus) New member Username: rockin4jesus Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.0.143.200 |
I too was UPCI, but no longer am... I agree that they are legalistic and pharisee... But I have to stand up for Oneness, Baptizm of the Holy Ghost evidenced by speaking in tongues and I stand up for Baptizm in the name of Jesus Christ.... One thing people fail to realize is that when a person believed they were immediatly baptized, read acts, all accounts of believers are baptized right away... ACTS 2:41 Then they that gladly received his word were BAPTIZED: and the same day there were added unto them about three thousand souls. ACTS 8:12 But when they believed Philip preaching the things concerning the kingdom of God, and the name of Jesus Christ, they were BAPTIZED, both men and women. ACTS 8:38 And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he BAPTIZED him. ACTS10:48 And he commanded them to be BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord. Then prayed they him to tarry certain days. ACTS 16:15 And when she was BAPTIZED, and her household, she besought us, saying, If ye have judged me to be faithful to the Lord, come into my house, and abide there. And she constrained us. ACTS 16:33 And he took them the same hour of the night, and washed their stripes; and was BAPTIZED, he and all his, straightway. ACTS 18:18 And Crispus, the chief ruler of the synagogue, believed on the Lord with all his house; and many of the Corinthians hearing believed, and were BAPTIZED. ACTS 19:5 When they heard this, they were BAPTIZED in the name of the Lord Jesus. ACTS 22:16 And now why tarriest thou? arise, and be BAPTIZED, and wash away thy sins, calling on the name of the Lord. Paul, the apostle gives many accounts to us asked us who were baptized in Christ have put on Christ, were baptized into his death, ROMANS 6:3, GALATIANS 3:27, Colossians 2:12 my point: if baptizm isn't that important why, tell me why was it done right at conversion... Jesus himself stated: Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God JOHN 3:5... MARK 16:16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned. so search your own hearts, search the scripture, please don't take my word for it, take God's... Now on the issue of the UPC holiness standards, MATTHEW 23:25-26 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. Thou blind Pharisee, cleanse first that which is within the cup and platter, that the outside of them may be clean also. MATTHEW 23:27 Woe unto you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness GALATIANS 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? | ||
| rockin4jesus (rockin4jesus) New member Username: rockin4jesus Post Number: 14 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.0.131.179 |
hi again, I wanted to add, I read prefer not say, and I can sooooo relate.... Which brings my point to life... They look the part (the UPCI and many others) but inside are no different than the world... Holiness comes from within... God made humans of every color, race, and made some tall, some short... And common sense people, why would God then turn around and expect us to stand out cause we dress different, but yet all look the same in the organization... C'mon, common sense... God does separate us, GOD, he himself separates us, how by our belief, by our faith... The righteous live by faith... It is our faith that separates us, not dress standards.... We do need to live by the word of God, walk in the spirit and you will not fulfill the lusts of the flesh... Do not burden people down with rules to hard to bare... Show the people Jesus Christ.... I agree, God does not care about cosmetics, or clothing... Believe me a Christian will know if something is not decent... your heart will convict you.... And if they don't then that is between them and God... Common sense people, common sense... Quit trying to control people, it doesn't work... | ||
| rockin4jesus (rockin4jesus) New member Username: rockin4jesus Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.0.131.179 |
tamara kwist, I liked what you said... And don't feel burdened, one thing we cannot lose faith on that,it is God that gives the Holy Ghost, I left for similar reasons, but spent five years in the UPC, I submitted for those years, I would notice some churches were even stricter than others, and that the pastor was Lord and governor of that church.... He was the law giver and they would say if you left this church, you weren't saved.... That is a load of tripe, they themselves cast themselves into judgment by uttering those horrible words.... No one can give or take anything from you, we can only go with what God has revealed to us... I believe very much in Oneness, Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ, and the infilling of the Holy Ghost... But how dare I ever say that this person or that person is not saved... To whom much is given much is required... I believe if you receive revelation from God, you do need to respond, many things have been hidden by Satan in these last days... But to the preachers who reject truth, Woe unto you... Yours is the greater condemnation... But the lost can only receive what God has given them... REVELATION 2:24-25 But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden. But that which ye have already hold fast till I come. MATTHEW 11:27 All things are delivered unto me of my Father: and no man knoweth the Son, but the Father; neither knoweth any man the Father, save the Son, and he to whomsoever the Son will REVEAL him. To the UPC I say this Quit condemning people who don't know, God has not revealed it to them... I have seen many people not UPC recieve the baptism of the Holy Ghost, God has accepted them... I do believe that you need to be baptized, like I wrote before It was administered immediatley... Satan has hid these things, When God reveals it, you need to respond then, and only then would it become a matter of salvation... But guess what, it cannot be revealed by man, but by God... When it is revealed you will know... And then you make a choice, if you then knowing truth reject it... God will send a strong delusion to believe a lie, II Thessalonians 2:10-12 And with all deceivableness of unrighteousness in them that perish; because they received not the love of the truth, that they might be saved. And for this cause God shall send them strong delusion, that they should believe a lie: That they all might be damned who believed not the truth, but had pleasure in unrighteousness. Does that mean that they are lost if the do not know? I believe if you preach a lie, you are condemning yourself... But thanks to God, that he has mercy, look at the conversion of Saul. Many are being led astray, COLOSSIANS 2:8 Beware lest any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. The UPCI is guilty of putting it's traditions before Christ... GALATIANS 3:3 Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Does that make all in Acts 2:38 null and void, No, it doesn't... We can only walk with what we have been given.... Keep preaching it, but do it in love, just know that God has to open their understanding... This I speak to those who preach it... And I say these things as God has revealed them to me.... Do not take my word for it, take God's for I claim to know nothing except Christ and him crucified... | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 907 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
not how are you i asked before but got no answer. i wrote to your son and found him to be quite pleasant. we had some good discussions. i think. GOD bless you | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 975 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.32.209 |
not latly do you? | ||
| arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1002 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.32.209 |
not it doesnt matter to me what denomanation you are if you are saved you are saved bt if you havent accepted JESUS as LORD then you are not saved this goes for all not just you or i. | ||
| not (not) Intermediate Member Username: not Post Number: 253 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 68.160.58.241 |
So what business is that of you? |
