| Author | Message | ||
     Kelly |
www.watchtower.tv -Exposes the "Truth" about Jehovahs Witnesses. Really Good Site! | ||
| David |
Looks good Kelly! Try this one it also has a lot of good info. www.jwfiles.com | ||
| Anonymous |
I was associated with the JW's for almost 20 years.Over the course of time I was made to feel guilty about just about everything about my personality and there were times when I think I had lost my personality.I had a lot of fear,paranoia,guilt and I hated myself more than I ever did in my whole life.I hit myself,wished I were dead,and went into denial about my feelings.I suppressed a lot of my emotions and denied a lot of things that were going on in my mind and it built up and had an adverse reaction on me and when I went to a councelor I omitted a lot of the things that were making me sick for fear of having the wrong"heart condition."I swear I had several mini breakdowns during that period.Right now I am back on my feet,independent,going to counceling and expressing myself openly and feeling a lot better about myself now that I don't associate with the JW's.I don't ever want to get back into that "mode" again. | ||
| DannyHaszard.com |
I'am Danny Haszard from Bangor Maine usa.Former member of the Jehovah's witnesses.Exited out 1-5-92 was in for 33 years.I was 3rd generation,so they still are holding most of my family hostage.The Watchtower swindled most of my family assets,left me desitute at first but i have recovered much. The worst thing that high demand destructive Bible based cults do to their victims is they 'soul rape' you so you become angry at God. It's been called."surrogate displacement" rage.You become 'mad at the world' and it takes a long time to recover, God is good and gracious and i am stronger for it.I have a counter-cult home page please visit and browse.I am determined to provide education and support to warn others of these,'wolves in sheep's clothing'. peace, http://www.DannyHaszard.com | ||
| Anonymous (68.119.47.6) |
the jehovah wittnesses are a cult they ARE A GROUP THAT is off on their doctrine of course they dont use the real WORD of GOD | ||
| angch (211.29.2.153) |
The idea of Jehovah's witnesses thinking they are the true one to this world and it's religious future of dogma. Sure for myself they are full of hot shit because they do not let you be who you would like to be. That is being your self and not a religious fruit cake so to speak. I was once a witness being the obedient little person that they wanted me to be. Once you become involved you belong to the organisation and not to your self or your family. Do the right thing be a pioneer, your single don't have a life. Go door to door to sell more toilet rolls (mags)and look into the little black book of golden rules and you'll never go wrong. This sent my head spinning around and around because I felt I had to obey their comand. Every talk made me feel guilty about what I said, talked and looked at. See they have you by the short and curly's this time. I felt that they did not allow me to attend to my own health needs and my stress become to serious about how they used there powerful influence of mind talking or control. In the end I was not sure of anything because I felt guilty about every step of my life. Control of you yes to break away is the hardest thing to do. My way was not suttle but effective to continue to finally not being at their meetings. I just wanted to tell them where to go in no uncertain terms. With the help of professional people I've made progess not to become involved with Jehovah's witnesses again. They suck out the very essence of who you are as a person. There carisma also working at the assemblies to give you a boost. Many exjw's believed this was happening and did not like it. So be your self and stay to what you want and like in life away from the madning crowd of the non defying witnesses of old. Your life, your choice. Healthy people are better, not becoming witnesses. | ||
| Danny Haszard (68.171.204.101) |
The anguish and the agony of having to renounce the life-long convictions of my heart.The surreal horror to learn that it was all a LIE."arrogance of ruthless egotism" Jehovah's Witnesses are predatory psychopaths who succeed by,"intimidation through litigation". They are bullys plain and simple. The Watchtower is big money, being one of the top 40 New York City Corporations making nearly one billion dollars a year. That’s just from one of their many corporations. Unlike in the case of Christians who are persecuted in other lands for talking about Jesus Christ, Jehovah’s Witnesses are largely persecuted for following the teachings begun during the second presidency of the Watchtower, when Joseph F. Rutherford took over in a corporate flap and began changing doctrines quickly in the Watchtower belief system. He claimed that angels directly conveyed “truth” to some of those in leadership. He coined the name “Jehovah’s Witnesses” to make them stand out from being witnesses of Jesus, a typical evangelical expression (and a Biblical one). Rutherford dumped holidays, birthdays and the 1874 date for the invisible return on Christ, and invented an “earthly class” of Witnesses, since only 144,000 can go to heaven in their teaching. The rest, meaning all 99.9% of Witnesses still alive, will live forever on a cleansed earth, under the rule of the Watchtower leaders in heaven, who will keep them in line by local elders known as “Princes.” If you have been “witnessed to” by Jehovah’s Witnesses and you reject their message, you will likely die “shortly” at Armageddon with all the other non-Witnesses, since theirs is the only true religion, and (if they can live up to all the rules) they are the only ones to inhabit this “new earth.” If you believe Witnesses seem rigid now, any non-conformist during the future “cleansed earth” will be directly destroyed by Jehovah. Even now a Witness will be disfellowshipped for any one of many gaffs, such as smoking, taking a blood transfusion, or even voting. To even vocally question the teachings of the Watchtower will result in complete cutting off, with family and friends usually being forbidden to talk to them. The Watchtower is a truly Orwellian world, in a time when Orwellian societies are nearly obsolete. By their own Yearbook accounts, Witnesses are shrinking in number in many Western countries as of the last three years, as the internet facilitates the spread of information (much of it critical of the Witnesses). Witnesses are cautioned against creating JW-related websites, largely to prevent their members from discovering the history and dirty laundry of this organization on other websites. (There are literally hundreds of former members pages in many languages.) The Watchtower strives hard to control the flow of information to the individual Witness, and prefers that all instruction come through the magazines they carry door-to-door. Without this form of control, even as they themselves admit, they would believe just the same as other Bible believers. My hope is that there will be a day in each of their lives when the Watchtower magazine is no longer needed, and they can go to college, vote for office, and contribute money and time to other, more vital causes in their community. More than likely they will then cease to be persecuted, except in a few societies more authoritarian than their own. » Theologically,Jehovah's Witnesses are a cult of Christianity.The oppressive organization does not represent historical, Biblical Christianity in any way. Sociologically, it is a destructive cult whose false teachings frequently result in spiritual and psychological abuse, as well as needless deaths. References: www.freeminds.org (type in a search word to find articles easily) www.silentlambs.org (latest news on the child abuse lawsuits against the Watchtower) {Footnote} What forensic psychologist say about cult leaders like Jim Jones and David Koresh.They are control freaks who will never abdicate control.They will choose death by suicide or a fiery fight to the very end.We can indeed see a comparison with the arrogant watchtower cult. [Final note; Jehovah's Witnesses have FOUR TIMES the 'pedophiles per capita' as the Catholic church! This is due to the Elder enforced code of silence.] ------------ About the author Danny Haszard: Former Jehovah's Witness X 33 years and 3rd generation (been there). Now a counter-cult educator. My home page, WATCHTOWER WHISTLEBLOWER: http://www.DannyHaszard.com wbtscultbuster@yahoo.com | ||
| godchild (godchild) Intermediate Member Username: godchild Post Number: 256 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.54.24 |
I have had Jehovahs' Witnesses come to my door many times over the years. I finally asked one of them (not the child they always seem to place in front of themselves) if I could read the Bible he carried. They were very excited and immediately gave me one. They have rewritten the Holy Bible. After having a discussion with two men, which is unusaul, I showed them verse by verse what had been changed (Not just by translation, but interpretation), gave them their bible and asked them to leave and not come back. When I moved to OR they began coming to my house. Always new women with children in front (once they got to the door), and I firmly asked them to go to their church, put my name and address on a list not to be bothered as I had read their beliefs and did not agree. They kept coming back, and I would tell each group the same thing. The last straw for me was when two young men came to my door. I could see several other people waiting in the car. The ground was VERY muddy and at that time I didn't have a sidewalk. I told the boys, 'not interested', please don't come back. They went to their car and began to help an old, old lady out of the back of the car. I flew out of my house and told them to not let her out of the car, that it was too muddy for her to be walking here, and they had better put my name and address on a list of 'do not bothers', or I would file trespassing charges on them. They have never bothered me since. "What part of no don't these people understand?" | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 139.127.189.218 |
Danny Hazard, your web site is awesome. Been to it many times. www.jwinfo.50megs.com | ||
| psalm5613 (psalm5613) New member Username: psalm5613 Post Number: 23 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.39.68.108 |
Satan smiled at me, and then replied. “Part of my overall strategy to win souls throughout the history of the world is to attack Yahweh’s book, a book that my demons and I thoroughly hate. Even the sound of its name, the Bible, leaves a bad taste in my mouth. I hate it just as I hate the Son of God. I hate his book with such great passion, that I have placed considerable effort and resources toward convincing the world to cast it down and to deny it in its entirety. In fact, I have assigned an entire legion of the demons for just that purpose. “We attack the book in many ways. I have created delicious lies and conspiracies about the various translations, which came about in the latter part of earth’s history, before the Rapture. These lies have brought into question the legitimacy of such scholarly translations as the Revised Standard Version and the New International Version. We achieved great success in convincing many of the church’s fundamentalists that the King James translation was not only the only acceptable translation, but that the rough old English itself was inspired by God. “We have indoctrinated thousands of those who follow after the Watchtower Society that their unscholarly and distorted New World Translation is truly of God. We have actively promoted other texts as being equal to or even greater in importance than Yahweh’s book. Books such as Science and Health with Key to the Scriptures by Mary Baker Eddy, and the Book of Mormon are two that come to mind. “Oh, and by the way, both of those books were co-authored by Nakal, the lead seraphim of my southern army. Nakal has played some pivotal roles in the establishment of heretical and apostate groups and cults. It was the demon general Nakal that appeared before Emanuel Swedenborg in 1745 claiming to be God, and telling Emanuel that all truth would come through him. It was Nakal that spoke to Herbert W. Armstrong telling him that the truth would come through him. It was Nakal that guided Charles Taze Russell in the establishment of the Watchtower organization. It was Nakal that appeared to Sun Myung Moon as Jesus on a mountain in Korea in 1935 telling him that God would finish establishing his kingdom through him. It was Nakal that convinced Mary Baker Eddy that she was the woman of Revelation, chapter twelve, who would unlock the mysteries of the dark book of the Bible. It was Nakal that delivered the Qur’an to Muhammad posing as the holy angel Gabriel. It was Nakal that posed as God the Father, and his associate, Pathah, who posed as Jesus. They both stood before the young Joseph Smith, telling him that all the churches were apostate and that the true church would be established through him. Nakal is quite an actor, is he not?” I shook my head in agreement. I made some special marginal notes about Nakal for future consideration. Truly, Satan and his minions are the masters of deception. “It is my policy that we attack, continually. We attack the scholarship of learned men and women who truly serve Yahweh, and we defend the scholarship of those who serve me. We attack by asking the question, ‘How can there be a Bible in existence if there are no original manuscripts available from which it can be translated?’ though there are thousands of later manuscripts, and overwhelming archaeological evidence, to support its authenticity. We defend the Book of Mormon, which has no archaeological evidence to support its stories, and was translated by young Joseph Smith using a seer stone placed in a hat that he used to cover his face. “We attack the Bible by drawing comparisons with other ancient texts such as the Code of Hammurabi and the Epic of Gilgamesh, by which we are able to convince many gullible people of the world that his book has simply recorded ancient myths and family stories that were common in many different cultures. For people to claim that his book is divine would then require these other texts to be considered divine as well. So they simply consider neither divine.” I was really struggling to keep up with the pace of the dialogue. The stack of scribbled papers began to grow substantially. Lucifer granted me little time to catch up. “One of my primary tactics is this: repeat, repeat and repeat some more. If the lie is spoken often enough, people will begin to believe and accept it. In my control of the airwaves, I have projected the idea that the Bible, the oft-touted ‘Word of God’ by Christians throughout the centuries, is not his word at all. I tell them that it is foolishness and mythology. I tell them to throw it down.” “Millions of ignorant people have done just that,” I said. Lucifer laughed. “It continues to amaze me just how easy it is to manipulate so many people. Yet, some are more difficult, requiring different approaches. Some of those more difficult cases cling to memories: Grandmother loved the Bible, quoting from it often; Papa read them stories of great courage and strength as they drifted off to sleep—stories of little boys and giants…of men bringing down the pillars of the palace; stories of a baby in a basket…and a baby in a manger. These people really want to throw the book out the window and into the trashcan, but they can’t; at least not yet. They don’t believe it; ridiculous notions they say, but it is a struggle for them to follow my way while they cling to their sentimental memories. They are frustrated, and even ashamed of their struggle. No one in his or her office at work gives any credence to that nonsense. They see it as a weakness. Yet these difficult cases hold on. “Many times I know I won’t be able to pry their Bibles from their unsure fingers, so I change tactics and encourage them to hold on to them; to put them away in a safe place, along with pictures of their papa or grandmother. I tell them to put those Bibles high on a closet shelf or buried in a cedar chest. “‘Keep it if you must,’ I tell them, ‘but don’t read it. Read it if you must, but don’t reflect on it. Read the Bible and make sure to take note just how bloody it is, and how wrathful God is. Read it, but don’t pay too much attention to it. Read it, but remember that it is just a book riddled with errors written by fallible men. It couldn’t have come from God, unless Yahweh was error prone.’ And then of course, who would want to believe in or worship an error-prone God?” Lucifer chuckled at his own words. “For some of the more dedicated followers of his book, I whisper thoughts to them. I reveal to them apparent scholarly work which is nothing of the kind, to prove that some parts of the book are from Yahweh while other parts are just thoughts from men. I leave to them to determine which parts they believe are God’s and which parts are not—though I often make suggestions. “And for still others, especially many of the influential preachers during the Church Age, I convince them that his book must be reevaluated within the framework of the present day, tossing out those portions which are too difficult or troubling to deal with. I whisper to them that the best way to handle difficult passages or subjects is to allegorize them, to not take them literally. If something is too hard, take it away, I tell them. Take away the reality of sin. Take away the reality of hell. Take away the reality of the depravity of the human race. Take away the need for a savior. Take away Jesus. That way they can turn any portion of Scripture into whatever they wish; they can interpret it as they ‘feel led’ by the spirit…or, more correctly, let me say, as they feel led by ‘a’ spirit. “Many of those preachers who stood in pulpits were never called by God, and in many cases, were not even his children. Quite a number were called up by me and were my children, posing as ministers of righteousness. It is so easy to confuse people. I put my man or woman behind that pulpit and I direct his or her thoughts and teaching. My thoughts become their thoughts. My ways become their ways. My doctrine appears as the doctrine of Yahweh.” He thrust both arms straight above him with clenched fists. His wings fluttered briefly as he cried out: “I am the god of this world!” From "Interview with Lucifer" by Rollin Miller www.interviewwithlucifer.com rollin@interviewwithlucifer.com | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 12.103.171.221 |
MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING I am a disfellowshiped JW and thought I would, for the fun of it include my two cents…. One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) New member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 68.91.8.146 |
yeah I was a "pioneer" for seven years and was thoroughly indoctrinated in the "cult" and it seems to take years to get past the anger, if you ever really do- they exploit the deepest parts of a persons soul and leave scars forever! even though I am living in a new town and have not had any contact with jws here, the congregation that I left has tried to track me down so they can send "records" to the new congregation. It is such a wierd group! | ||
| needinfo (needinfo) New member Username: needinfo Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 4.227.117.60 |
hi. my parents are JW's and are falling in deep. they are also trying to take my 3 year old son with them. i need help and i want them out. can anyone help me or give me any suggestions. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) New member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.178 |
needinfo, can you elaborate a little more? I tell you though getting away from the jws is not easy once your in- they want to control the circumstances, (ie either disfellowship you or make you formally disassociate so that others in the org will not have any contact with you-) they don't want anyone to just fade- what is the circumstances you are facing? | ||
| needinfo (needinfo) New member Username: needinfo Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 4.227.112.92 |
do you really want the whole story?? ok i'll give you the short version. when i was 14 my parents started going to the kingdom hall and then started taking away all the holiday stuff when i was about 15. and then when i was 16 they started forcing me to go. i finally moved out and left home when i was 17. we didnt talk much after that. until my son was born 3 1/2 years ago. now they are getting mad at me and my 3 brothers for not attending their talks on the watchtower. we live 3 hours away from them so every once in while they keep my son for a few days and when he is there they take him with them to the meetings. i dont want my son to go but i also dont want to take him away from them either. what do i do? | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Junior Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 27 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.150 |
ok- I have similar situation involving my 4 year old son- he goes to visit my ex husband every summer for a month- now I do not think my ex has returned to the jws but his whole family are jws so they take my son to the meetings with them-I don't like it but i have to let him go... so i really understand the quandery you are in. does it seem like he has been impacted by going? my son didn't really even think about the kingdom hall and just barely mentioned it- i don't really know what you should do at this point except start developing a belief system for your immediate family and subtly introducing it to your child- establish traditions for just them- i know in my case even though i never celebrated birthdays and holidays in my childhood, my son has known nothing of not celebrating birthdays and having holidays so frankly i do not think he would give them up- he loves that- another thing is that even though you haven't said how you feel about the jws to your son (probably), kids are so smart, they know what your attitude is toward something without you even having to say it, (at least when they are younger)now that could change when he gets older and you may have to state your feelings later but it sounds like he is still very young. I would make sure that I filled his life with alternative traditions and routines when he is not with the jws to show him that not everyone lives like the jws, nor do they need to... there are alternatives no matter what the jw org. would have everyone believe. Also I would teach him that God loves everybody, regardless of race, age , creed, and yes religion... he gave his son for the sins of the "world" not just jws.there, that is my armchair psychology... you may decide my suggestions are not for you and that is ok- I am only relating things from what i have had to do with my son. good luck and let me know how things are going. | ||
| bear (bear) New member Username: bear Post Number: 2 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 4.165.238.251 |
Two things: to needifo, you are the parent. It does not matter that they are your parents. If you disagree, put your foot down. You are their daughter, but you are no longer under their authourity. Give your parents a choice. I know that sounds harsh, but you must have a backbone if you are expressing your true convictions. To godchild, By pushing the Jw's off your property, telling them not to come back, you are only proving them to be correct in their minds. Their thought is "Jesus was persecuted for preaching the truth, and so are we". You should plant the seeds of thruth; challenge their belifs in order to get them questioning what they have been taught, not pushing them away. All that does is what I mentioned above, and make you feel pious. It is not a success! | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 51 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
I was going to answer needinfo but luvliberty just about sums it up.all I will add is I have grandchildren in the JW"s & all I can do is wait till they are old enough to make up their own minds & all you can do is answer any questions your child may have when the time comes. explain to them that there are different believes & when they are old enough they will make up their mind too, but tell your parents that if they try to force the religion on their grandchild they will only push them away like they did to you.Both you & your parents can do more by being good examples, remember they are your parents & if you want your child to respect you then you must show them the same respect. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 218 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.6.154 |
marilyn_m...I like your advise, some forget that honor thy Mother and Father is a commandment not a suggestion. | ||
| bear (bear) New member Username: bear Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 4.165.238.50 |
Ladies, there is a difference between honoring your parents, and allowing them to do things of which you do not approve. Respect must always be there regardless of age, however, many adults think that it is direspect to stand up to, or challenge, a decision their parents have made. It is rooted in fear and insecurity, usally residue from their childhood. I have four children, and respect is a law in our house. My children see respect from my spouse and I toward our parents. If my parents or in laws were bringing my children to a place, or living a certain lifestyle of which I disapprove, I would let them know that it was unacceptable. It would be done with respect. If their feelings were hurt, or if they disagreed, my children would not visit them alone. They are my children; my family first. I may be thier child, but I am an adult with my own life, and I will stand for what is right. Too many adults act like little children when they are around their parents; they are scared. Perhaps it is just my personality. I was once a JW, so I have seen this first hand. My sister had told our parents that she did not want her son going to their meetings. My father ignored her request several times; in essence, he showed her disrespect. One evening she went to pick up her son from our parents house. My mother was home a told my sisiter that my father was at the Kingdom Hall and that he had taken her son. My sister and her husband drove to the Kingdom Hall and picked up their son. This was their right, and my father, who is a very loving man, got the message. My sisiter was never direspectful, but she put her foot down, and as a parent, she was right. | ||
| bear (bear) New member Username: bear Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 4.165.238.50 |
Sharon, your cliche is true, but remember that respect is sometimes misunderstood. For many adults their parents were controlling, and it caries on in to adulthood. You may have directed you comment of "some forget" towards me, so let me say that I have not forgotten. I have been in and around full time pastoral ministry for years. I have married many couples whose parents were very intrusive, and it hurts the marrige. Many a person never "seperate" themselves from their parents. This is unhealthy, and as a result, they will not make an important decision for fear of what their parents may say. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 66 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
Bear, to honor your parents to me as an adult, means to respect them, not obey their every word. It is true that many people can not seperate the two, but for example: I was abused by my mother and although I am not as close to her as I would like to be, she is still my mother and I still show her respect. I would not speak to her in a in a disrespectfull way. | ||
| scp89 (scp89) New member Username: scp89 Post Number: 11 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.137.31.122 |
Jesus never once refered to The Father as Jehovah | ||
| bear (bear) Junior Member Username: bear Post Number: 39 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 4.161.236.127 |
marilyn_m, I would never speak to my parents in a disrespectful way either. There is a difference between respect and allowing your parents to do something with you kids against your wish; I believe that was the issue above. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 245 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.103.181 |
..marilyn_m, ... I think that bear just called one of the ten commandments a cliche, rather a bold statement. I like that you forgive and can still follow through with speaking respectfully to them. The last commandment of our Lord Jesus is to love, and your forgiveness is proof of his word in action. Simple is it not. . | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 67 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
bear, I understan what you are saying & I do agree that as parents we must raise our children as we see fit. Sharon, thank you for your support, I think you are a real christian. | ||
| bear (bear) Member Username: bear Post Number: 53 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 4.161.238.228 |
marilyn, To clarify, I was never promoting disrespect towards parents; I believe that is wrong. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 70 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
bear, I did not say you were, did you not read my last reply, I said I agree with you ! | ||
| bicpen (bicpen) New member Username: bicpen Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 12.103.171.221 |
Hey, Scp89 (scp89) Regarding your Post Number 11, you are patently and grossly misinformed as to Jesus never calling-using God’s personal name YHWH, or as we say in Modern English, Jehovah. Please be so kind as to look under the first thread of this topic, “What you believe” and note two of my posts, Post Number 1 but in particular Post Number 2, paragraphs 9, 10 and 11, though directly in 10! Also please take the time to read the posts through! Next time you decide to shoot from the hip, it may be wise not to point your weapon in the first place, lest you hit innocent victims……and suffer the consequences! Cheers, Don | ||
| tamartim (tamartim) New member Username: tamartim Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 82.96.100.100 |
Ever wonder why D.H. is so maniacally bitter? Personal body insecurities meant no physical intimacy until age FORTY-SIX! Should D.H. simply acknowledge that his own awkwardness and uncertainties are the real cause of his inept social skills and 'wasted' virile youth? NO! It must be SOMEONE ELSE'S FAULT! BOO HOO! Get over it, you whiner! <a href="http://anonymouse.ws/cgi-bin/anon-www.cgi/http://www.factnet.org/factnetcgi/discus/">D.H.'s own words</a> http://tinyurl.com/d4tx6 http://editorials.arrivenet.com/rel/article.php/4662.html | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 15 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 139.127.189.218 |
tamartim, the real question is WHY are you stalking Danny on many separate internet forums? Why do YOU care what a complete stranger says or does? You really need to get some psychiatric help. How is it exactly that you purport to "know" Danny is lying about his reasons for leading the JW lifestyle all those years? Are you a mind reader? | ||
| setti24 (setti24) New member Username: setti24 Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 216.43.159.210 |
I agree with Bear, I have 3 small children and I have already set the rules. This is the way I want to bring up my children and have told my parents that if they visit they are not allowed to talk about JW's beliefs. I have told them that if the kids get older and as certain questions such as "why don't you celebrate birthdays?" to keep the answer short and never want to convert them. It took my mom two weeks to get over this, but right now they are over my house visiting the kids. Although there is still a lot of tension in the air, I get a weird satisfaction, knowing that they are breaking ALL the rules. See, JW's are such hyporcritical ppl! That was the main reason I first left  LOL Setti | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) New member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.146.118.217 |
Godchild, I just wanted to say something to you regarding you reactions to Witnesses at your door. Has it ever occurred to you that your treatment of them encourages them to believe that they are being "persecuted for Jehovah" and that one of the reasons they return (or send others) is to bolster that feeling of special favor? I'm not going to fault you, because you are where you are. But when any "missionary" shows up at my doorstep, I am always as sweet as pie to them. If I have time I keep 'em talking for as long as possible because that's one less door they'll get to that day--one less endangered soul on my block. And if I don't have time, I say something to the effect of, "You know, I really don't have time to talk today, but maybe you could come back on____. But I'm sure you're working hard out there; would you like to use my bathroom? Can I get you something to drink before you go?...I'll be praying for you until I see you again..." I know that it's frustrating dealing with cult members, and there are days when I cringe at the sound of someone knocking on the door--especially on Saturdays and holidays. Nevertheless, Jesus tells us we must visit the prisoners (see Matt 25b) if we are to call Him Lord and reign with Him in heaven. Who is more of a prisoner than a member of a cult that denies Him? I, personally, have also learned that meeting a JW (or any other cult member, for that matter) at the door with a smile and genuine kindness and patience goes very far. It's unusual for them to meet "opposers" or "apostates" who treat them with unequalled respect, and very often it is just that expression of Christ's love that determines whether they ultimately stay in or leave the Watchtower... Just a suggestion. In His Grace, miki | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) New member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.146.118.217 |
And to Sharon, can I just add that when I read Bear's statement regarding "cliche" I did not read him saying that the commandment to honour one's parent's was a cliche--only the abuse of the commandment to suit one's purposes. Incidentally, if we truly "honoured" our parents as the Law enjoins us to do, then we would support them financially, take care of them personally in old age and never talk back to them--all the time and in every circumstance. As well, if any of us followed the Law as so many Witnesses claim *they* do, we'd see alot more smartmouthed, beligerent and altogether incorrigable kids being stoned to death in the streets for disrespecting their parents. But these days that only happens in Muslim countries...Better go back and re-read the Tanakh before judging the words of another... | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 281 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.76.138 |
pointlessshrew ...Your comments on Muslims is racist. Since I only quoted the commandment,what else do you think he meant by a cliche. Do you know what honor means? You can respect and honor someone and still question if they are right in a decision. I honor my many people but do not support all financially, nor do I feel I must take care of them personally. But that said I do take care of my Mother who lives with me now that my Dad has passed away. It would dishonor her if I let her make mistakes because she is older now and not always on top of things. You can do me the honor of not correcting me if you do not understand what I am saying. Your tricking Jws into thinking you are interested in their preaching is also non Christian. We do not pretend to treat others with kindness so as to stop them from preaching to someone else. You do not know that the next door they go to they could be saving someones life. Just because you are disenchanted does not mean others do not need the Lord and the message these people give. Many who walk away from Jw churches did not know Jesus when they met their first Jw but do now. You do not know Gods plans but feel safe interferring. I think your advise is most needed by you. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) New member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.151.129.207 |
I wondered if you would actually write back, Sharon, and I am glad you did. First of all, my comment regarding Muslims and the use of corporeal punishment is not racist--hardly. In 1999 and 2000 I was part of an international movement bring banned medical supplies (by the US gov't's embargos) to the Middle-East. Ever been to there, Sharon? Well I have, and that experience gives me a priviledge to speak on matters that you know nothing about, obviously. Islamic-governed countries *are*, in fact, the only nations on the face of the planet that use law-enforced *public* barbary, bodily mutilation and murder as a sanctioned means of punishment--that's not racist statement, but a verifiable fact that even your own organisations literature recognises. So, please, don't even start with the misologies. Regarding your issues with my work, I most certainly am very personally interested and concerned with the welfare of every Witness I meet--I want them to have faith in the real Jesus, not the WTS sham. Remember that little statement that St Paul makes, "be as cunning as serpents, as innocent as lambs"? You should--Witness propaganda prints it all the time, Witnesses I know say it often, and the "Rahab Doctrine" developed by Fred Franz and taught by the Society utilises this scripture in an attempt to validate the premise of "godly" lying. So you should be very familiaar with the concept. But I do not lie to Witnesses. I simply withold information until the time is right to reveal it. And it's interesting to me that you seem so threatened by this when one of the hallmearks of Witness practise is to "hide the truth from those who don't deserve to know it"! I am shocked--do the words "POT", "KETTLE", and "BLACK" mean anything to you?! Regardless, my kindness is genuine, and I maintain close friendships with many of the former Witnesses I have helped leave the Society. Did you read my first post? My own housemate is a former Witness who left with my assistance--one of the reasons we originally lived together is because she had nowhere else to go when she left. But the assistance I offer with each individual is basically the same: 1. Constant intercessory prayer on their behalf, 2. Unreserved hospitality (which is the main reason they return) and even practical help when needed, and, 3. A guided tour through the Watchtower Society's contradictory and errant literature--which they've never had the time to study themselves since they are mindlessly gorging on 3,000+ pages of Watchtower tripe (*not* the Bible) every single year. No, Sharon, you've got it wrong--the rank and file Witness is as far from "knowing" the LORD as east is from west. The Watchtower's "system of education" guarantees that. It is when a Witness actually *does* comes to know the LORD Jesus Christ as their only true Saviour and GOD over all that they walk away from the Society. What they discover is that Jesus *is* GOD--not an archangel--and Saviour over all--not the Watchtower Society, that He loves them completely, and doesn't expect them to do backflips to gain salvation. In six and a half years of this, I have yet to witness any "life-saving" by the Watchtower Society. But I have been a witness to more than thirty successful suicides, and dozens of failed attempts, because of it. I think you should think on that. 30+ Witnesses in seven congregations dead in seven short years by their own hand--al because of their wonderful "true" religion. Well, bravo! If that's what you consider to be "life-saving", shouldn't you be proud to scream it from the rooftops! Please, spare me. I'm not impressed. GOD is the GOD of Life, not death and destruction and confusion. On two other notes, again, your understanding of the commandment to honour one's parents is most definitely a cliche'--and I did read what you said, and most definitely understood it. That's exactly why I responded. As to "JW churches"--this is a misnomer. You don't have churches, remember? You have meeting halls. And you don't have worship, you have "education"--it's just two bad that what they teach is not the "truth" it claims to be. If it were, we wouldn't be here having these discussions about the Watchtower Society being a dangerous, deadly, damaging cult, would we??? My only disenchantlment, Love, comes in the knowledge that some people in this world will persist in ignorance and prejudice for fear of not being unique... In the mean, I've added you to my list of daily prayer intentions, Sharon, and I wish you well. In His Grace, miki | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 286 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.12.31 |
pointlessshrew ...Deception is never Jesus no matter how much you talk condecendingly to others. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) New member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 14 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 12.47.34.121 |
There is nothing condescending or decieving about it. If you want to talk about deception, then explain why the Watchtower Society spends so many thousands of pages of propaganda every year lying to both it's members and the public about every topic under the sun... I am sorry that you think being told the truth is condescending. I suppose next you will be accusing me of "persecuting" you. Regardless, like I said, I don't lie. It is my right (and common sense) to hold my cards close to my chest until the others involved in the conversation are at ease to look at such information without balking. If you think that's deceptive, Sharon, think on this--it's absolutely no different than the Watchtower Society's cronies waiting until they are actively grooming a proselyte for emminent baptism to give them the "Organised to Accomplish Our Ministry" book...because in reality they *know* that if they showed people this information from the get-go they'd run like hell. You know it and so do I, so don't play. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 291 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.97.83 |
pointlessshrew ...I do not know that, in fact I know the opposite of that to be true. Think, even Marilyn on this page came to know Jesus because they came to her door. She did not know Jesus, and if they had not come to her door she would not have had the chance to become a Christian. ANd she went to the door of another unbeliever and by knocking on that door saved their life as they were about to end their life. She was told this years later and so she understands how this works. WHen you preach about Jesus many are saved. All churches have faults, none are perfect. She left that church but she took Jesus with her. You would deny her this, you would have stopped them coming to her door, thinking you were saving her. That is not what would have happened though. You do not have to convince me of anything, for I am not stopping anyone from coming or going to that or any church. If you think that they are decieving why do you follow their example. I do not think that more deception is what is needed. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) New member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 24 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.158.250.234 |
"All churches have faults..." 1. The Watchtower Society is not a church, Sharon. 2. Jesus Christ only founded one Church and the Watchtower, again, is not it. 3. The "Jesus Christ" professed and "preached" by the Watchtower Society is not the historical Christ testified to by Scripture -the WTS's "Christ" is a demonic fraud. 3. Read Marilyn's testimony carefully; the WTS--for *her*--was a stepping stone *to* Jesus, not the be-all-end-all of her spiritual life. I deny Marilyn nothing, and you extrapolate lies from vapor. 4. I do not follow the example of the Watchtower. I have merely used this example to point out to you that while you accuse me of deception for holding back information until I know that someone is capable of being able to look at it without envisioning demons attacking them (because the WTS has taught them, wrongly, that demons lurk everywhere waiting to pounce on them...), you also seek to promote an organisation that *openly* promulgates a corporate policy of "godly" lying to control and decieve it's ranks. You cannot have it both ways, Sharon. You speak with a forked tongue if, on the one hand, you see the WTS lying to outsiders and initiates as "of Jesus", as you put it, but call the witholding of information that will be provided eventually regardless of circumstances as "deception [that is] never of [sic] Jesus..." What you fail to recognise is that dealing with people who have been in mind-control cults (the Watchtower Society is one of those cults) must be handled delicately and with special considerations as to their mental states--because the WTS has perverted and damaged their world view. Sure, I could invite any Witness in to my home, take them up to the library and show them my collection--and watch the terror spread across their face as they realise that I am an "opposer" who has access to literature they have never even seen... Or, I can speak compassionately with them over a period of weeks, sometimes months, and show them the information incrementally, asking them pointed questions about what the Watchtower teaches, what they have taught, and how these things match up with the Society's claim to "new light." The Watchtower's own literature shows it to be a liar--all I am is the messenger. I don't answer the questions *for* anyone, Sharon--I only teach them how to use the critical thinking skills that the Society has purposely dumbed down. And when the time is right--if and when they want full access--I let people have full, uninhibited run of my library to find the answers that the Society has denied them. And along the way, I introduce them to the real Jesus of the Bible. Interestingly, Sharon, I have a letter from Bethel written to the Circuit and District Overseers all over the world in 1997 directing them to remove and destroy all literature from Kingdom Hall Library's prior to 1960 to prevent people from having access to that information. Many KH libraries are empty as a result, while others have not complied. But the fact remains that your organisation actively seeks to use subterfuge on a regular basis to hide it's true history from those who would like (and need) to know it. Is this "of Jesus"??? I think not. The question I have for you is why do you think anyone should belong to an organisation that lies to them on a regular basis, but that they should avoid people like me who use careful communication as a vehicle to show them reality? Your defense is simply not rational. In fact, it cries of desperation and fear of the truth. Is fear "of Jesus", Sharon? (and I'm not talking about "having a wholesome fear of Jehovah", here--but that demonically inspired fear that inspires people to choose bondage to an organisation like the Watchtower rather than victorious life in devotion to Christ..) (Message edited by pointlessshrew on August 02, 2005) | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) New member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 25 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.158.250.234 |
BTW: I just read your last post to my housemate, Sharon. She was an auxillary pioneer for eight years, and here's what she ways about your comment regarding Witnesses "saving lives": "The Watchtower Society teaches that by going door-to-door you are doing a 'warning work' to save people from being destroyed at Armageddon, but more often than not you just tick people off. So if Armageddon does come, you haven't done them any good at all. "On the other hand, suppose a publisher comes to a householder who's suicidal and converts them--yeah, they might have saved their life in that immediate situation, but the stress and the falsehoods of the Watchtower keep them from having a true relationship with the real Jesus. So once again, if Armageddon comes, they're screwed anyway for believing the lie, and once again they haven't been done any good. Does that makes sense?" Makes all the sense in the world to me...which is why I do the work I do... | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Junior Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 26 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.158.250.234 |
And, by the by, Sharon, I am not continuing this conversation in order to try and "convince" *you*, but for the benefit of those who may be watching (or will read) this thread. You've been trained to shut out the truth of reality by the organisation you support, but there are some who will see this exchange who need to be aware that you've been duped by an multi-billion dollar a year organisation that uses you and your friends and family as free labor to spread their message of lies and fear. Your own words demonstrate that this is true. But if that's what floats your boat, then so be it. There are people in the world who still have a thirst for the unadulterated truth. And those people have a right to know that there are other people who know the Watchtower and it's history inside out and backwards, and will fight to bring that knowledge to the fore to protect innocent persons from being led down the road of destruction that your "religion" brings. The truly tragic thing about becoming "one of" Jehovah's Witnesses is that the vast majority of people who do so are kind, loving, incredibly innocent and gentle people who are vunerable and looking for answers when the WTS gets ahold of them and demands that they check their brain and conscience at Bethel's door. It's only when these same people learn how badly they've been decieved and begin to educate themselves regarding what they *don't* know (usually because there is nothing left for them to do...) that they have the opportunity to live a truly victorious and passionate life in Jesus Christ. The tragedy lies in the fact that those who escape are few--too many stay out of fear. But when they do succeed in leaving, all of Heaven rejoices. Your insistence in refuting these facts regarding the organisation you support only serves as a platform for others (including myself) to express the truth. So, thank you, Sharon, for your help in revealing the cultic nature of the Watchtower Society. I do appreciate your assistance. In His Grace, miki | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 304 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.99.137 |
pointlessshrew ..I have never been a JW, nor have I ever said that I was. THe fact that you do not know this tells me you do not know me just as I have said. I am a Jesus only person, did you not know that? I was asked here to help someone who was hurting and I came. I leave now, just as they have. Do not feel you have driven me away as I would stay if I was needed but I am not. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Junior Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 28 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.166.7.218 |
No, what I have said is that you support the Watchtower organisation--"the organisation you support". And you do support it by the words you write in these threads in it's defense. There is no defense for the Watchtower. On another note, I was well aware that you weren't a Witness by the fact that you continued to erroneously refer to it as a "church". I apologise if I used any inconcise language that made it appear otherwise. But how do you help anything coming to a discussion regarding a dangerous cult and supporting that cult as if it were authentic Christianity? Again, all you have done is helped me to illustrate one glaring fact: people by-and-large no absolutely nothing about what the Watchtower Society truly teaches or what it is. But thank you for finally admitting this fact of your own experience. You think, errantly, that it is good to allow JW's to go door-to-door spreading their message of death, criticise me for sharing the Gospel with them in my own home and try to defend their pseudo-Christian gospel of fraud. That is not a "Jesus only" mentality, Sharon. If it were, we wouldn't be here... I am keeping you on my list of daily prayer intentions, Sharon, and hope that the Holy Spirit will guide you into all truth--only then, do I believe, will you be of any lasting use in "helping" someone in a cult. For now it is my observation that your affections and intentions are misguided. In His Grace, miki | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 308 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.82.170 |
Pointless maybe this will help you see what I am saying, I hope you have ears to hear. As a young woman you are not showing any respect at all. THis is a story that your Marilyn told me, maybe it will help you know how many find their way to Jesus, someone has to lead them there. They came to Marilyns door and she is no longer in that church but she took Jesus with her when she left, many take only bitterness and have lost what once was found. Sharon ,I have a story to tell you in line with what you ask me, I think you will like it. One day about 15 years ago I knocked on a women's door to talk about the Bible with her. She would have been around 33 years old ( just a little older than me at the time) I spoke to her of God & his purpose ( don't remember exact words) She took a couple of watchtowers from me & said we could talk again sometime. I went on my way. Then one day 2 years ago my son his girlfriend & my grand daughter moved into an apartment building & this same lady was one of their neighbors visited them there often. My son commented on how nice she always was to them & my grandchild. Then just last year they moved out of that apartment & my son came to live with me due to illness ( he is well now though) I took care of him for about 5 months, then when he got well he told me something that moved me to tears. He said " Mom, you know that lady in the apartment that was always so nice to us, well she told me that my mother saved her life one day" I asked how did I do that. he asked if I remembered calling on her & I told him I did ( because it turned out that she & I went to the same school & knew some of the same people) than he told me that she told him she was just about to take her own life when she heard a knock on the door. That knock was me & what I said to her that day made her change her mind. TRUE STORY SHARON! I always got so much enjoyment out of bringing people to Jesus that did not know him. That’s why I left the other board I was on, because I wanted to help other's know him & to heal from the painful past they had lived but the people on that board claimed to know more than all of us & didn’t need any help, they only wanted to argue & hurt so I decided to find a place where the people were a little more light hearted and showed love to those who are suffering. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 75 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.168.62.128 |
Sharon, I just saw this--sorry I missed it earlier. Nonetheless, I am not being disrespectful, nor am I as young as you assume me to be. Realism is not disrespectful, no matter how you try to spin it. And one doesn't have to be young and stupid to be passionate about the truth. The reality of the Watchtower Society is just as I quoted--what my housemate said to me in response to your previous post. If you don't like it, that's not my problem. But what you are basically saying is that one "religion" is a good as any other, and that is most definitely a problem. I've got only one thing to tell you in this regard, Sharon: Tolerance is the virtue of those who believe nothing. And every time you make a hostile, misguided, ignorant defense of the Watchtower Society, this (and something that you said to bear in another thread) pops into my head. What is truly disrespectful is that while you haven't got a clue what the Watchtower Society teaches, has taught, what their community language aactually means or what their culture requires, you run roughshod over anyone who does, and demand that they agree with your wishy-washy "can't we all just get along" mentality. Sorry, Sister, it ain't gonna happen--and you can quote me on that. So Marilyn had an effect on a woman and saved her life in the moment by that influence. How, exactly, does that help or invalidate the many *thousands* of documented cases of practising Jehovah's Witnesses who have comitted suicide, the families who have been destroyed, the countless numbers of Witnesses in the mental health system? How does this assuage the guilt of Witnesses who look at these things and feel absolutely helpless to do anything to fix the problem because the culture they call a "theocracy" breeds it? How does this testify "of Jesus" as you so snottily put it to me a few days ago. No, see, Love, the problem with people who are so shallow in their thinking that anything that comes along is good in their book so long as it does *somebody* *somewhere* some abstract "good" is that they help to foster and build on what theologian Oliver Barres referred to as, "...the trackless wastes and swamplands of subjective preference, victimized by an arbitrary Tyrant who may [in the case of a 'wayfaring man'] condone or command the inherently immoral." This is what you do, Sharon. This is what you espouse as "Christlike" and "Christian"--to the detriment of other's souls. And then you have the gall to turn around and call me disrespectful? Get real. You are entitled to your opinion. But until you decide that you're going to educate yourself on the facts of what it is you ignorantly and arrogantly promulgate as "Christian" [NOT!], your words remain nothing more or less than that--one small opinion amongst millions of others that differ from yours. How can anyone take this seriously, or give it the "respect" it doesn't deserve? In His Grace, miki | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 313 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.81.215 |
pointlessshrew ...my my what a bee you have in your bonnet. I do not understand most of your post. To show how little you know me you think I want to get along with everyone, and defend the watchtower. Since you do not know me there is no point in us speaking. Sorry that we reach this impass. It happens. Hope you find what you are looking for. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 82 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.170.96.125 |
You do not understand it because you are not as enlightened or as educated as you believe yourself to be, as your posts attest. That we are at an "impasse" is the result of the fact that you do not know what the Watchtower Society teaches and you, therefore, do not possess the experience or the objective knowledge with which to discern it's dangers. For those of us who do, however, you are an irritant only in the fact that it is people like you who make this work necessary. I know exactly what you are--and that is why I refute you. Because it needs to be done. When you have some actual knowledge to add to the conversation, as opposed to all of your fine, baseless sentimentalism, then we'll have something to discuss. Until then your "opinion" has all the relevance of a gnat in an empty fruit jar. Like I said--still praying for you, O Enlightened One. In His Grace, miki | ||
| observerofpatterson (observerofpatterson) New member Username: observerofpatterson Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
i live near patterson ny where there is a huge "compound" of jehovah's called "The Patterson Inn" and it is by far the biggest pain in the ass of the residents of northern putnam and southern dutchess counties. The jehovah's have seemed to buy up much property along route 22. but that is not the point. they relentlessly walk around my predominantly catholic neighborhood and bang on our doors try to sell us faith WE DO NOT WANT. AND YOU SIR ARE DAMN RIGHT, JESUS'S ONE TRUE CHURCH WAS THE CATHOLIC CHURCH. but i respect all religions, from Zoroastrianism to Buddhism (absolutely beautiful) etc, so no i am not some fanatical catholic. but cults i do not respect. whenever they come here, i tell them "Do I knock on your damn door trying to sell Catholicism to you? No! now go the hell away." They never take no for an answer. and they are very very hot to get inside your house for some reason. and do not make them mistake of them knowing your name or they drop by whenever looking for you. this one lady stopped by all the time looking for my sister... all i know is i went to catholic school for 8 years, i could probably school your asses in the bible if i want to, but I don't believe in trying to shove my faith down other peoples throats. People I know from Brewster to Pawling just wish they would go away and not knock on our doors. what i found funny was that one of the ladies that came to my door once had braces... don't jehovah's preach against that kinda thing? i don't know. now the patterson inn will probably send their militia of 'suits' in oldsmobiles out to find me. if any JW's from patterson watchtower are out there, please leave the surrounding communities alone. we don't believe in your drivel. theobserver | ||
| bear (bear) Intermediate Member Username: bear Post Number: 171 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 4.165.239.207 |
1. The word "catholic" mean universal. It is not the Catholic denomination that is the one true church, but the universal church; the body of Christ. 2. School us, please. I am not a JW, but the regal tone of your post is humorous. Oh, sharing our faith is biblical, so I guess the class that taught that truth was cancelled due to budget cuts. 3. It is a fact that the use of profanity is a sign of a weak mind. This is proven through your obvious, gross misuse of grammar. Please, in the future, post something worth reading. (Message edited by bear on August 14, 2005) | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Intermediate Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 127 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.132.202.218 |
Hello, Observer, and thanks for sharing your experience. I have been trying to explain this to a couple of participants here, and I have not just a little sympathy for what you are dealing with. When my best friend first started getting involved with the Watchtower Society I had just quit nursing and had gone to volunteer for a couple years of service at Peter Maurin Farm in Marlboro, NY just up and across the River from you. All of a sudden she was hot-to-trot and come out to visit me. I did not know it until after she arrived, but what she *really* wanted was to visit the Patterson Education Complex, Walkill Farm and the Brooklyn Bethel Headquarters. Visiting me for a couple weeks made this extraordinarily convenient. So, wanting to be a good hostess, I went with her. Frankly, I was horrified by what I saw at these places of Jehovah's Witness legend--and what I learned about Watchtower Society culture. After going to Patterson one day and spending several hours being bored into a near coma by the guided tours, we decided to drive to Waterbury to see some friends of mine. They weren't home, so we improvised and decided to check out the town. While in Waterbury her car broke down and it was getting late; the town was literally closing shop for the weekend. Neither of us had any extra cash on us, so I found a Catholic priest, told him who I was, where I lived and what I did and asked if he could help us get back to Marlboro. My friend swore up and down that if we could just get back to Patterson the Witnesses would fix her car and take care of everything, "because that's what Jehovah's people do..." We ended up staying the night at the Sisters of Mercy convent. The nuns were marvelous with my friend, and treated her like a daughter; she blew them off as deluded old ladies with a bank roll, not brides of Christ. The next morning while I went to Mass and prayed like the dickens that GOD would reveal the truth to her about His people, she walked around the town square, later commenting with a smirk on all the "pagan" Catholic art around the area. ...So another priest in on this mess had her car brought to his mechanic and he got it running. He said he thought there was an electrical short and we should have it looked at thoroughly when we returned to Marlboro. She said he was a cheapskate for not doing it himself. So, sure enough, just miles out of Waterbury her car overheated. Another priest friend had given me his AAA card number, so I called a tow truck. My friend wanted the car--and us with it--taken to Patterson. When we arrived the woman at the security gate didn't want to let us through--even when told that my friend was a Witness visiting from another state. She only relented when the tow guy gave her the choice--drop the car off outside the gate or inside. So I remained with the car in the lower parking lot whilst my friend walked up to the complex. About an hour later she returned with an unhappy mechanic who told her very firmly that he was not supposed to do anything for anyone not carrying a letter of introduction from Bethel. She was also told, in my presence, by an elder who drove down from the complex that he did not want us "hanging out" on Watchtower property and he told the mechanic to do whatever was necessary to make the car run so we could leave. So, she was very embarrassed and sat under a tree and cried whilst the mechanic found the source of the trouble (her radiator fan was burned out) and jury-rigged a connector. He actually called his boss on a two-way while we were standing there and told him that we were leaving. I drove us home whilst my friend cried. Inside, though, my heart leapt for joy--Patterson was *not* everything she had built it up to be. We got home and she stayed for a few more days. The people in our community treated her very well, and took her on outings here and there. She was invited to prayer and was given the use of the hermitage. I was given the money to go and buy a new radiator fan and laid in the mud of the driveway and installed it myself. When she left, one of our community members went with her to keep her company and make certain she got back in one piece--that member's family returned her back to us on a bus later on. This was to be the first of many disparate experiences my best friend would have when confronted with the reality of "Jehovah's people and their unconditional love for others..." It would be several years before she finally realised that Watchtower culture does not live up to it's own hype and left. This was also not the last time that I would have the opportunity to observe the rude and almost militant ways of the Witnesses in New York State--not just Patterson. That in itself was a great, albeit sad, string learning experiences for me. What I learned to be *most* true and most vital in understanding the rank-and-file Witness, however, is that these people are truly victims of victims and really have no understanding of the ways in which they effect and rile others. Knowing this has given me a certain sense of sympathy for their plight--especially since the day I first learned that they honestly believe that when they walk up to that next door and are screamed at or treated poorly by the householder within they are being persecuted for Jehovah. They really cannot help themselves, and it is upon our shoulders to be gentle with them, draw them out of their self-serving stupor and introduce them to the real Jesus... Just my thoughts. In His Grace, miki PS, Observer: May I suggest that if you are at all interested in learning effetive ways of dealing with Witnesses in your area that you contact St Joseph Communications (they're on the web and have a mail order great catalogue) and get ahold of the taped lectures by Mary Kochan on the subject. She is a former third-generation Jehovah's Witness, an awesome Catholic apologist and writer, and a mentor to me. Articles she has written on this and other subjects can be seen at www.catholicexchange.com in the archives section. You might also find the Roundtable Discussion Board there to be of help, as well. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Intermediate Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 128 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.132.202.218 |
Bear, the word Catholic does mean universal--what was the only universal Church for the first millenia and a half since Christ's Ascension? Secondly, observer used the words "damn" and "ass" as adjectives in frustration (which I understand) and which is germaine to his anger at being pursued relentlessly by Witnesses in his area. I can sympathise with his angst--when I lived in Marlboro we had two sets of Witnesses (never the same people, but always one set of "elders" and one set of "sisters") who showed up at our religious community in tandem *twice* every week--Wednesdays and Saturdays, even when explicitly asked in writing not to return (I was not one of those who thought they shouldn't, but I respected the wishes of the majority). Instead they always looked at us like they hadn't the foggiest notion that they weren't welcome to proselytise there. But regarding the word "damn"--it appears in the Bible in several places--as do the words "ass", "piss" and a few other unsavory terms that many find offensive today. Does this mean to your way of thinking that the writers of the Biblical books were "weak minded", also? This seems like a very judgemental thing to say. In His Grace, miki (Message edited by pointlessshrew on August 14, 2005) (Message edited by pointlessshrew on August 14, 2005) | ||
| observerofpatterson (observerofpatterson) New member Username: observerofpatterson Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 205.188.117.13 |
Keep on keepin' on Bear... i don't do internet quarreling, I am here for information only. Only I know my relationship with God, and I am quite secure in it. Thank you Pointlessshrew. I will definitely check out that website. The rise of cults lately has scared me, as we all know loosely that it is a sign of things to come. What brought me here was actually an article on Scientology that listed this site in it. The Scientologists used to be a formidable threat where I used to live, near Clearwater, FL. I moved here, and found JW's to be the threat? annoyance? here. So I came to this forum instead. I work extremely close to the Patterson Inn, so close that when I go to buy my lunch, I almost certainly run into them. They are very cold people, and almost condescending to the help preparing their lunch. I cannot say they are all like this, just the ones here and there I have encountered. You are right, no one is allowed to stroll the Patterson Inn, which I find odd. Any other church/what have you welcomes people, for example me and my boyfriend recently visited the Buddhist Monastery in Kent to observe the statues/art. All visitors were welcome. Now, not that the Patterson Inn has art, but it just seems odd to me, as they do own some pretty beautiful land. We often joke they are hiding a spaceship up there, but then we are like, "No wrong cult". Oh yes, I am a she. I have always wondered if anyone had a real brush with these people in Patterson, and I am very very glad you told me your story Pointlessshrew. This is exactly what I was looking for by posting here. the Observer (Message edited by observerofpatterson on August 14, 2005) | ||
| bear (bear) Intermediate Member Username: bear Post Number: 173 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 4.165.237.104 |
Pointlessshrew, 1. The Catholic denomination did not transpire until the third century, and that after paganism was allowed in. This is not an opinion, but fact, as one will discover, when church history is studied. 2. The words "damn", "ass", and "piss" are English words, and are considered to be profane in our culture. In scripture, the word ass, for example, means a donkey; damn means condemned. To answer your question: no, the biblical writers, who wrote in Hebrew, Aramaiac and Greek, were not weak minded. Your justification does not have a foundation, regardless of a persons level of frustration. You have, in one sentence, showed your lack of biblical linguistics. I have enjoyed the truth, about the WTBTS, that you have brought on this thread. You have been very acurate in your dealings with Sharon, for example, and your knowledge of the organization is great. I do disagree on the above mentioned points. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 327 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.8.40 |
Bee... If it was a contest I would win. Two for Two. Sad but easy to understand. Sorry to be right about some. You are a wonderful example of Christian. I thank you and hope that I can follow it myself. May God Bless You. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 328 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.8.40 |
bear ...I love how you managed to tell pointless that she lacked biblical linguistics and then dis me at the same time. Well done, what a mighty Christian you are. If you had not driven Marilyn and Bic from the boards I bet that they would be impressed also. I see pointless is patting herself on the back again, see the funny play on words, Patting. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Intermediate Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 130 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.168.27.52 |
Bear: I was referring to the English Bible--the 1611 King James, to be exact, et al, not the extant manuscripts. I never said anything about the original books. Secondly, you'd better take a closer look at your history. The Catholic Church existed from the Book of Acts, and can be demonstrated as such. The allegation of paganism creeping in to the Church is a Protestant invention--one that can be disproven with good research of the facts. On the other hand, thank you for your kind words regarding my contributions to this forum; I appreciate knowing that someone besides Sharon is reading them. Sharon: Do you ever post anything that doesn't involve grooming your "feelings"? Bear did not "dis" you--he acknowledged a fact. You are about as useful in these discussions as a pile of salt on chocolate cake, and you do need "handling" as your own posts attest. If you were more interested in the facts and an intelligent dialogue than in preening your fragile ego, you wouldn't have have the opportunity to be "dis"-ed. And, again, libel is a serious matter--you'd better start showing up with some evidence or I'm going to be having a discussion with the moderators. Observer: I am a she, too. Not hard to miss in these forums. I used to see Witnesses all over New York. Patterson, the Lower East Side, Greenwich and Tribeca. The funniest lemon-faced JW I ever ran into was down by the Angelica. I even remember which movie I'd gone to see--Billy Elliot... Anyway, this woman in her twenties was standing on the street wearing a sandwich board ("THE JUDGEMENT OF THE LORD IS UPON US...ask me when...") and handing out magazines. I walked up to her and said, "I'll take one of everything you've got." She looked at me as though I was Satan himself. She had to wriggle out of the sandwich board (with a huff), get her sachel out of the garbage can she'd stashed it in (with a huff), and rifle through all her things(with a scowl and a lot of mumbling to herself) to pull out a nice stack of crap for me. I told her she'd have an easier time of it if she used the sandwich board as a kiosk instead of wearing it--she glowered at me... Her partner pretended I wasn't even there, and when I said hello to her, she rolled her eyes and turned to face the other direction. Yeah, I want to discuss my eternal destiny with these people, sure... I was near tears trying not to laugh. Teresa of Avila came into my mind in that moment, "God save me from sour-puss saints...", and all I could think is that if *they're* going to Paradise, I think I'd *rather* be "birdseed"--that's got to be the most unhappy "paradise" ever! I learned to just smile sweetly and be a kind as kind can be regardless of how they act. It's that cult mindset of elitist entitlement peeking out--they can't help it. Just mirror love and kindness to them, and they can't say a word. Florida to New York??? Did someone hit you in the head? Everyone I've ever known does it the other way around, Sister... ;o) In His Grace, miki | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 330 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.77.52 |
pointless....Thank you for the chuckles, I really loved the part about pretending to love others, what a riot. You go a head dear and do what you must, if it makes you feel better. By the way Patterson is also here as a third person, guess you forgot that. | ||
| bee (bee) Member Username: bee Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.238.12.16 |
Sharon, Thanks for the kind words but really I am just learning how to walk in the love Jesus told us to. I would also like to encourage you in that you _are_ an example for the Lord in how you care for your mom in your own home, make it her home too, give her the feeling of independence in her golden years. I worked in a nursing home & it is very sad to see people packed waiting for their families to come & bring them home. May God Bless You for doing this for her & how you open your home to others that the Lord lays on your heart. Stay strong in Jesus! | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 344 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.103.99 |
bee...Thank you for your kind words. In truth it is me who is blessed to have her. I have friends whos Moms have passed and they would be happy with just one more day with their Moms. I am off for the west coast today, will return in three weeks. I have missed you here on the boards but I do understand your reasons for leaving and thank you for your message. May God Keep You Strong. | ||
| bear (bear) Intermediate Member Username: bear Post Number: 176 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 205.144.127.200 |
Pointlessshrew, Many of the words in the KJV have a different meaning today; they are in their archaic form. The 1611 KJV is 394 years old, and as such, meanings of words, and expressions, change. We will disagree on this point, so let us agree to do such. My comment was due to Observer's comment about the CC, and their notion that they could school us all in the bible due to their 8 years of catholic school. That was a funny, arrogant and ignorant comment. Catholisism as we know it did not have its origin until the 3rd century AD, after the reign of the Roman Emp. Constatine. Paganism in the church is not a protastant invention, rather a documented truth. One must research outside of the catholic church in order to see the difference. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Intermediate Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 138 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.165.78.176 |
I have already researched everything that you have mentioned in your last paragraph (as well as the first), Bear--which is exactly the reason why I not only converted from Protestant heresy to the Catholic Church as a 27 year old adult, but also the reason I vehemently disagree with your exegesis--because it is full of errors. I have studied history very careful for years, now. Your belief that the Catholic Church did not "arrive" until the later Councils that Constantine participated in is not supported by the records still in existence of the Councils held regularly for three hundred plus years prior to that, starting with the Council of Jerusalem in the Book of Acts. Nor is it supported by the writings of the Pre-Nicene Fathers of the Church, all of whom fought strenuously against paganism. Likewise, I have investigated the claims that there is "paganism" in the Catholic Church very, very thoroughly--these claims are baselss and do not hold water when given thorough scrutiny. The difference is that Protestants follow the ways of the Watchtower and seek to make their own religion instead of abiding Christ, and scandalising others and pointing the finger does much to rationalise their protests--the primary difference is pride. That is why I am no longer a Protestant. As to Observer's comment that she could teach the Witnesses at her door a thing or two about the Bible, I think she is very likely absolutely right. One of the things I have learned in my work with Witnesses is that they do not know the Bible nearly as well as they think they do, but rather depend on Watchtower catechisis for their "knowledge" of Holy Writ--which is often wrong. Compare this with the fact that every parochial school Catholic I have ever met who took their education seriously and actually showed up and paid attention at daily Mass (where the bible is read extensively 365 days a year) and their religion classes, and most PS-reared Catholics are very capable of running circles around the average Publisher in the WTS. Incidentally, a nice little package arrived in my mail today from the Watchtower Society. I asked them, in part, if they could provide any statistics regarding the conversion of Catholics to the WTS. While they claim not to keep any, they do say that their work goes farther in Mexico and South America because in "100% European Catholic countries" the populace is "subborn and intractable" and the "mission work" of the Watchtower does not have the same success that it does else where. Might that be because in Europe most Catholic kids go to Catholic Schools, while in Mexico and South America far fewer people go to school at all and are, therefore, more trusting and maleable when someone comes to the door claiming to work for GOD? It is also of interest that looking at the yearbooks from the past five years, the WTS's membership is faltering, and baptisms are plummeting. Gee, I wonder why. Maybe, because they don't "know" the Scriptures the way they claim to...that's just one possibility. But it probably runs tandem to several others. I apologise that it took so long to respond to this. I've been busy with World Youth Day activities all this past week. In His Grace, miki | ||
| bear (bear) Intermediate Member Username: bear Post Number: 184 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 4.161.234.216 |
I agree with you about the level of education received at a catholic school. I am an ex catholic, before I was an ex JW, so I do know what the CC teaches. I am also a die hard Notre Dame fan  . I want to, in about two years, apply to a graduate program at ND. Observer's comment was "I could probabley school your asses in the bible if I wanted to", the emphasis being on "you". If she was speaking to a JW, then I stand corrected. I interpreted that as an arrogant statement to all on the thread. Let us not get wrapped up on the Catholic/prot. debate. We will disagree, so let's do so on a respectful level; not that you have been disrespectful. | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 69 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.145.99.10 |
I do not believe Catholics are going to hell. There are catholics who believe in the blood-bought salvation, and the Holy Spirit baptism. I really don't know whether they are going to hell or heaven, it's God's business not mine. Yet for all those who want to know, as a person from a hindu background, I make these strong statements: There is only ONE mediator between man and God: Jesus Christ. The bible teaches against communication with the dead, which entertains familiar spirits as in the case of Saul, who consulted a witch to communicate with Samuel, who was dead. He entertained a familiar spirit, a spirit that imitates a dead person. Moreover, the bible strictly teaches against rituals and idolatry of any form. The bible is crystal clear that all idolaters shall be turned into hell. Moreover, Mary the earthly mother of Jesus didn't remain a virgin. After she gave birth to Jesus, she gave birth to other children by Joseph. Mary isn't divine, but human. Mary was called 'blessed', not divine. Praying to Mary and the saints with the rosary is absolutely unbiblical. Jesus didnot have Mary's blood. If you ask a good doctor he will tell you, that the father furnishes the blood of the child and not the mother. Jesus had divine blood. This is why the virgin birth is important for salvation, not the virgin. The virgin birth is proclamation of the divinity of Jesus. Jesus was very God and very man. Micah the prophet said, "...His going forth will be from eternity"(Micah5:2) Isaiah the prophet called the Messiah,"...Almighty God.."(Isaiah9:6) Again Isaiah the prophet said Jesus was Immanuel, meaning 'God with us'. The Word of God is our standard, not denominational doctrines and theology. Sidharth | ||
| belong2jesus (belong2jesus) Member Username: belong2jesus Post Number: 70 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 59.145.99.10 |
The protestants are deceived when they say, only the Catholics will constitute the wordl church. The world church will constitute of both Protestants and Catholics alike. The kind of unity the denominations show is unbiblical. That's not the kind of unity the bible teaches. There must be unity in the body of Christ, not in a particular denomination alone. Get out of your denominations and come to the Word of God. It's infallible. Heaven isn't going to name any denomination on the day of rewards. "Ye protestant denomination, ye have stayed faithful!". Rubbish! God is concerned about you, not your denomination! Sidharth | ||
| tamartim (tamartim) New member Username: tamartim Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 85.195.119.22 |
The Jehovah's Witness property in Patterson, NY is called 'Watchtower Educational Center'. The main entrance is NEXT TO a hotel called Patterson Inn on Route 22. It is not just in this area that Witnesses go door-to-door hoping to talk about the bible, but in thousands of communities around the world. Many bible students understand that Jesus actually commanded Christians to perform this preaching and teaching work, so it's unlikely that Jehovah's Witnesses will stop. Sometimes householders react poorly out of embarassment that their own so-called Christian religion doesn't even attempt the basic biblical direction to preach. I'm not sure why braces would be funny, but they are probably as common among Jehovah's Witnesses as among any random group. | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 17 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 139.127.189.218 |
Ummm...why the giant font? Are you shouting? Anyone who wants to keep JWs off their property simply needs to put a "no trespassing" sign on their door. JWs have been instructed in writing by the Watchtower Society to leave property bearing this sign. If they ignore your sign you need to refer them to the written directives to the Elders prohibiting them from visiting such homes, then say goodbye--please leave--and shut your door. pointless: "rude and almost militant ways of the Witnesses in New York State--not just Patterson" LOL, I cannot even begin to describe how true that is. I am an ex from NY state, and have noticed how other states aren't quite as strict and controlling as the borg here in NY. (Message edited by rebel8 on September 27, 2005) | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 166 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.40.56 |
rebel8- were you a JW? your information was right on target about the JWS but you know they have been told to stay out of certain apartment complexes by certain authorities and they will hit it secretely anyway!? |
