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mormon_girl_14 (mormon_girl_14)
New member
Username: mormon_girl_14
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 65.89.233.5
| | Posted on Saturday, January 29, 2005 - 11:07 pm: | 
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Have any of you READ the Book Of Mormon? Have any of you actually ATTENDED our church on Sunday? Have you ever had LDS missionarys come over and give you a DISCUSSION? If you answer NO to any one of these things, then you have NO foundation to start a debate with us upon. You know NOTHING about our religion what so ever! It's pretty pathitic how far some of you go to make us look bad, VERY pathitic. Before I go to bed, I just want to clarify a few things...
1~ We ARE Christian! I think I would know if I was Christian or not!
2~ We have ALOT more freedom than you! You just have to look at it in a diffrent perspective. You just do whatever you feel like, drink... gamble.... gossip.... dress like hookers....swear every other word.... you can call that freedom, but it's really Satan adding another link or two to your chain/chains of sins that hold you down and drag you closer to hell. Yes our church has many rules, and restrictions.... but they don't hold us down, they keep us free from sin, and bring us closer to our Heavenly Father.
} |
solopilot (solopilot)
Intermediate Member
Username: solopilot
Post Number: 375
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 216.190.204.218
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 1:29 am: |
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MG:
I've brought up these points on a number of occasions.
If you want some fun, "Godchild" claims to have been LDS from the ages of 13 to 39, but she keeps saying the most absurd things (such as forgetting what the Standard Works are). When she responds to you, just keep your eyes open for things that any LDS girl would know, but that she gets completely wrong.
Oh, and the people here think that THEY are Christian, and have the right to say who is and is not. Watch the things that they say and you will see a wide range of doctrines of men. However, with a couple of exceptions, we're all friends here, so don't take it personally when someone calls you names. It's either one of the bigots, or just someone who doesn't know any better.
BTW, where are you (don't be too specific!)? I'm in SLC much of the time. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 106
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.236
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 1:48 pm: |
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Since I am being called a liar, I suggest anyone wanting the history of the lds church to read some mormon church history at http:\www.ldshistory.net. I found this sight this morning and though the author Peter Porter (a man who has made a disclaimer on all he wrote, which includes numerous historical data,) has given christians one of the most eyeopening views to mormonism that I have read. |
franklin (franklin)
Intermediate Member
Username: franklin
Post Number: 310
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 205.188.117.12
| | Posted on Sunday, January 30, 2005 - 10:01 pm: |
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Mormon girl, do you believe that God was once a man? Do you believe that man can become a god? |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 112
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.63.199
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 12:18 am: |
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Who told you that nonmormons drink, gamble, gossip, dress like hookers, 14? That is a lot for a fourteen year old to know about the world on her own. Honey, we all sin in some way or another. I am a grandmother with three grown children, and 8 grandchildren. You will find yourself in a very small world if you judge people. If anyone of us were perfect, we would ascend to heaven. Only Christ did that. We don't claim to be Christ. Only to try our best to be more like him, and know we can never be him. That's not what we want. As much as you may love your mother and father, your grandparents, and may want to be like them, you must know you cannot be them. My hope is that you will remember you have the Holy Bible as one of your books. Read it as often as you can, especially Matthew, Mark, Luke, and John, as these will show you what Christ is, and what he wants for you. I speak to you lovingly, as a christian who lives for the day she will be with the Lord for eternity. Having his Holy Spirit in me is the most wonderful thing in the world. I have the promise of seeing and speaking to him face to face also. Isn't that what we all hope for? |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 113
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.63.199
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 12:26 am: |
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14, I would like to add, do not trust everyone who claims to be a good person because he is a member of your church. Because a mormon father-to-be killed his wife and unborn baby, then threw them in the dump, does not mean all mormons are bad or good people. Just because a mormon set off a bomb to destroy his own sin of selling fake documents to the mormon church, does not mean all mormons are good or bad. If one mormon parent hurts his child, that does not mean all mormon parents are good or bad. The same goes with all people. We are only human, not superhuman. Do you understand? |
solopilot (solopilot)
Intermediate Member
Username: solopilot
Post Number: 382
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 64.122.31.130
| | Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 7:50 pm: |
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GC:
Any young Mormon knows that non-Mormons drink, gamble, gossip and dress like hookers, it's all over the TV and movies. They are taught that some Mormons do these things, also, and what the consequences of these actions are.
Several years ago, in General Conference, the Prophet said to avoid extremes of dress, including body piercings except for a single hole in the earlobe of women who choose that type of earring.
A couple of months after that, a friend told me of something that had happened in her ward. A girl of about 6 or 7 noticed that one of the older girls in the ward had added several holes to her ears. Her eyes got wide, and in all innocence, she piped up with "Don't you have the same Prophet that we do?" |
franklin (franklin)
Intermediate Member
Username: franklin
Post Number: 314
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 64.12.114.51
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 6:29 pm: |
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"Any young Mormon knows that non-Mormons drink, gamble, gossip and dress like hookers, it's all over the TV and movies."
The majority of non-mormons I know do not drink, gamble, gossip or dress-like hookers. TV and movies do not a society make. If young mormons are taught that the whole non-mormon world is like what you see on television or in a movie then that is a warped brainwashed view.
What is your definition of dressing like a hooker? Gossip..... show me a human being that does not gossip at one time or another. Nothing against drinking in scripture except gluttony and drunkeness.
As far as how many earring holes a woman may have that is not scriptural. That is a man made rule made up by a self proclaimed prophet to a man worshipping church. Speaking of so-called prophets, do you believe that your prophet is closer to your mormon gods than you are?
Christians read the word and then let the Holy Spirit work within them to tell them what is right or wrong. We know it from the heart out. We don't need a so called prophet to make up arbitrary rules based on his prejudices. WE listen to the King of Prophets.....The Holy Spirit. |
franklin (franklin)
Intermediate Member
Username: franklin
Post Number: 318
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 64.12.114.51
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 8:03 pm: |
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The ONLY problem I have with Mormons is that they call themselves "Church of Christ"...... Yet they believe in many gods. Do you believe that God was once a man? Do you believe that man can become god? These are not things Christ taught the world.
Christ told all who believe in Him to go to the nations of the world and tell them about Him. That is what we are doing. Telling the gospel. Part of the gospel is God is God. Man is man. God was not man. And man cannot become a god. We can only become perfect in our belief in Christ and His sacrifice for us.
I do not slander. This is a discussion board. If you do not like the posters here questioning each others beliefs, then goodbye. |
solopilot (solopilot)
Intermediate Member
Username: solopilot
Post Number: 388
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 216.190.204.218
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 01, 2005 - 10:54 pm: |
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Sunbeam:
No, I'm sorry, I don't do online chat and prefer to deal with these issues here.
Franklin:
Where did I say that the MAJORITY of non-Mormons do these things?
You've shown the same inability to understand basic concepts here than you show in your interpretation of the Bible. I'm still laughing about your statement about the Book of Revelation.
Sunbeam (again):
Franklin doesn't want to learn anything. His ignorance provides his confidence that he will go to heaven. |
franklin (franklin)
Intermediate Member
Username: franklin
Post Number: 322
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 64.12.113.184
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 12:05 am: |
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"Franklin:
Where did I say that the MAJORITY of non-Mormons do these things?"
"solopilot (solopilot)
Intermediate Member
Username: solopilot
Post Number: 382
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 64.122.31.130
Posted on Monday, January 31, 2005 - 7:50 pm:
GC:
Any young Mormon knows that non-Mormons drink, gamble, gossip and dress like hookers, it's all over the TV and movies."
There's your answer sp.
sb:
Would you not agree that any church that looks up to any man as being closer to God (or mormon gods) than all others (a self proclaimed prophet) is guilty of manworshipping? Put a man on a pedestal? A man usurping Christ's place as the intermediary between God and man? That is man worshipping as I see it.
I speak against man worshipping whether it be in the Mormon Church or anywhere else. Ministers we need. Not prophets.
The Holy Spirit speaks God word to us through ministers and other Christians but more importantly through the Holy Spirit.
If you see my opinion as slander then so be it. I see it as speaking God's word.
So far as the slander accusation goes you and Sp hold the title for that. Beam in your eye?
Words I have not used...... "ignorant", "ignorant" "ignorances".
The harder you attack me, the closer I know I am to the truth.
Doesn't matter how you slice or dice it. God was not once a man. Man cannot become a God. If that wasn't the "Church of Christ..." doctrine I could live and let live. But this specific piece of mormon dogma I find to be blasphemous to God from any church that uses the name of Christ.
Laugh all you want sp, but Protestant, Catholic and Orthodox Christians all agree with that interpretation. No one is to add or subtract to the Bible.
So be as condescending as you want. Go ahead slander me. Call me names. But as long as the Church of Christ of Latter Day Saints preaches that man can become a god, I will continue to criticize that doctrine and church. That is my right! |
overseas (overseas)
Intermediate Member
Username: overseas
Post Number: 286
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 164.143.240.33
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 9:55 am: |
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Q: I am a Christian, I have a personal relationship with Christ. He is my Saviour. I believe he bled from every pore in the Garden of Gethsemane and died (murdered)for my sins as well as the sins of every person who has ever existed on this planet. I pray only to my Heavenly Father in Jesus Christ's name.
Isn't that what a Christian is?
It may sound good but the devil is in the details. Does the personal relationship include repentance of sins ? Do you look to the apostolic teachings found in the Bible as the only source for your belief ? Who is Christ for you - just a man, just God, an angel, a prophet, the Son of God and Son of Man ? Are you saved here and now ? What is sin for you - disobedience to God law, ignorance, lack of self esteem ? Who is the Father for you - a god, the true and only God, a former man ? What is your prayer for you - a tool to force God, begging from God, a way to say 'God will not mine' ?
I mean people can easily define terms their way and claim they're christians. No offense. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 138
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.141
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 11:59 am: |
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Sunbeam, In one of the posts, you asked me why I don't speak about the other socalled churches, or religions; I do not speak about what I do not know. There are many books (in your public library) that will define christianity and books that will define cults. YOU should read some of them and GOD willing, expand your horizons. |
solopilot (solopilot)
Intermediate Member
Username: solopilot
Post Number: 391
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 64.122.31.130
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 1:30 pm: |
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Franklin:
You are once again seeing some kind of "proof" of your viewpoint that no reasonable person would.
You are taking the comment that "it's all over the TV and movies" to mean something about the majority of non-Mormons. The two are not connectable.
I'm sure that God appreciates the way that you LIE in HIS NAME, calling your fantasies "God's word."
I'm not attacking you, Franklin, I am laughing at your self-righteousness, and the lengths to which you will go in order to be "right."
YOU STILL HAVE NOT SAID WHICH VERSION OF THE BIBLE IS NOT TO BE "ADDED TO OR TAKEN AWAY FROM," though I admire your imagination when you say that the one passage in Revelation was intended to cover a compilation which wouldn't be gathered together for another 300 years. And what about the books which John wrote AFTER he wrote Revelation? You know, like his whole GOSPEL? His epistles?
But then, there is a similar prohibition in Deuteronomy, making the whole rest of the books and letters in the Bible "nonscriptural."
Come on, Franklin, tell us exactly which Bible you consider the perfect one, so that I can go to NON-MORMON sources to prove that THEIR version is better than yours! It doesn't matter which version you use, all of the people who use the others "know" that you are wrong and the web is full of sites where they will explain your errors in detail.
Yes, Franklin, it is your right to be wrong. That's what the whole war in heaven was all about.
"And the LORD God said, Behold, THE MAN IS BECOME AS ONE OF US, to know good and evil:" (Genesis 3:22, emphasis added)
"According as his divine power hath given unto us all things that pertain unto life and godliness, through the knowledge of him that hath called us to glory and virtue: Whereby are given unto us exceeding great and precious promises: that by these YE MIGHT BE PARTAKERS OF THE DIVINE NATURE, having escaped the corruption that is in the world through lust" (2 Peter 1:3-4, emphasis added).
"The Spirit itself beareth witness with our spirit, that WE ARE THE CHILDREN OF GOD: AND IF CHILDREN, THEN HEIRS; HEIRS OF GOD, AND JOINT-HEIRS WITH CHRIST; if so be that we suffer with him, THAT WE MAY BE ALSO GLORIFIED TOGETHER." (Romans 8:16-17, emphasis added)
"Beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, WE SHALL BE LIKE HIM; for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2, emphasis added)
"I have said, Ye are gods; and all of you are children of the most High." Psalms (82:6)
"Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, YE ARE GODS? If he called them gods, unto whom the word of God came, and THE SCRIPTURE CANNOT BE BROKEN;" (John 10:34-35, emphasis added). Notice that Christ pointed out that Psalm 82:6 was not a mistake, for He added the phrase "and the scripture cannot be broken" right after it, stressing that it was a fact and that its meaning could not be argued away.
Overseas:
Yes, the relation includes repentance of sins, this is one of our most basic principles.
Nowhere in the Bible does it say that the Bible is the "only source" for belief. Considering your belief in doctrines which are not in the Bible, such an implication is self-contradictory.
Regarding prayer, I would like to know what your belief is on this, then I'll give you mine.
BTW, I would like to compliment you on the change that I've seen in your attitude in the time that I've been here. When I arrived, you were indistinguishable from Franklin in the fervent and irrational nature of some of your comments. Today, I see someone who is DISCUSSING others' doctrine, rather than demanding acceptance of your own. Your beliefs have not changed, but you now discuss them reasonably to make your points.
Oh, and yes, many people do define Christianity for themselves. You do this. You say that I am not a Christian because I'm not your kind of Christian. I say that you are a Christian because you have faith in Christ. I also have faith in Christ.
GC wrote: "I do not speak about what I do not know."
THAT will be the day!!! |
solopilot (solopilot)
Intermediate Member
Username: solopilot
Post Number: 394
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 64.122.31.130
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 3:04 pm: |
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SB:
GC has said many things. Each time I've accepted something she said, including apologies, she has turned around and once again I've been snakebit.
She came on here claiming to have been a Mormon from the ages of 13 - 39, then proven so unfamiliar with the nuts and bolts of life as a Latter-day Saint that it's impossible to believe her claims. She has said things, then, when corrected about LDS procedures, changed her story.
Her latest self-contradiction is regarding her ex becoming a Mormon after marrying another woman, then the 11-year-old going to live with them for a year. While not a contradiction in and of itself, when put alongside her first claim we are forced to conclude that either she is lying, that she didn't meet the father of her child until she was 40, or that in all the time they were together, she was an active Mormon but he didn't join the Church until he was married to a SECOND Mormon. All are possible, but the last two just don't pass the Hoof Test (when you hear hoofbeats, think horses, not zebras).
Some of the other things she's said show a complete lack of knowledge of things that any former Mormon would know, especially one who spent her adolescence and young adulthood in the Church.
In fact, the only "proof" which she has ever offered is the same sort of thing found in chat groups whose focus is "how to prove you're a Mormon when witnessing to non-Mormons." The whole idea is to give the impression that the faker knows about Mormonism because they WERE Mormon.
This is like the late "Bible Answer Man," "Dr" Walter R. Martin, who claimed an extensive knowledge of Mormonism because of having inherited a "secret library" from his "ancestor," Brigham Young. Only problem is that there was no such library, and if there had been he still wouldn't have inherited it, because he is no relation to Brigham.
But, as I was saying, there are people who want to trash the Church and are willing to lie in the name of Christ to do that.
I have never seen anything to make me believe that GC is not one of that group.
My favorite was a comment that she made about how Mormons are all very interested in UFOs. In 30 years as a Mormon, I've met four other Saints who were particularly interested in UFOs. To a non-Mormon, though, such a comment is so off-the-wall that it implies a greater familiarity with Mormonism than the reader had. |
ralphwells (ralphwells)
Intermediate Member
Username: ralphwells
Post Number: 190
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 162.129.227.254
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 3:46 pm: |
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Hi all, jsut visiting from another thread. As I was raised a mormon until fifteen, then attended and nearly went back in at twenty-five, I would like to contribute my $0.02. And yes, I have read all the "Mormon Sacred Books" and still have a copy of the all-in one leather bound to refute LDS lies when needed.
A couple of sayings the LDS often use, and what is wrong with them.
"As God is man was, as God is man will become." As someone already pointed out, Jesus was always God. He was not the brother of Lucifer. And we will never be gods, that was the lie Satan gave to Eve in the garden.
"I have a burning in my busom to share the testimoney of Joesph Smith." The real Jesus gives us a burning to share what He has done for us. Not a man!
"Joseph Smith was a type of Christ." Sorry, the Bible says Jesus went like a lamb to the slaughter. In the LDS's "Articles and Doctrines of Covenant" it says that Joseph Smith died with a blazing six gun in his hand while trying to escape from jail. Hey, I did not write it, Mormons did.
My final thought, thank God that the Mormon Church got rid of the absymal doctrine of blacks not being able to be in the priesthood because of the curse of Ham? What an abomination and racial slur aginst blacks that was. But isn't it amazing that Mr. Knight, the then president of the apostles for the LDS church, got his "revelation" in the eleventh hour just before the NAACP was taking them to court for racial discrimination??
There is so much more, but this is just a little to think about.
BTW, for those of you who have never heard an "elder" speak of becoming gods, that is because they do not mention it until about the 10th or 11th meeting in your home. By then you are either hooked or out of it.
Blessings to the Christians on here, praying for the LDS.
Ralph
1Cor 15:10 |
solopilot (solopilot)
Intermediate Member
Username: solopilot
Post Number: 398
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 216.190.204.218
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 02, 2005 - 9:43 pm: |
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Gee, Ralph, why have I never heard a MORMON say any of these "sayings the LDS often use"? For that matter, if we said them, why are you the first one to tell the world about them? I did a web search on each of these "sayings" and got no hits whatsoever.
Make up your mind. Jesus was God, or Jesus was the SON of God. Who did he pray to in Gethsemane? To whom did he say "not as I will, but as thou wilt"?
No, Ralph, "the Mormons" didn't write that "Joseph Smith died with a blazing six gun in his hand while trying to escape from jail."
According to the official reports of the Sheriff, jailer and the Governor of the State of Illinois, Joseph Smith was killed by a mob which stormed the jail. Gee, funny how that's how it's described in the Mormon records too, ha? Rather than trying to escape from jail, he was trying to keep the mob out of the jail.
Consider also that he was considered so unlikely a flight risk that the jailer and his wife gave up their own bedroom to Prophet and the other men with him, rather than putting the men in the dungeon cells. The room that they were in was not locked, and the windows were open because of the humidity and heat of the June afternoon. Both Joseph and Hyrum were allowed to keep their pistols for protection, and two of the other men were allowed to keep canes. In the face of all these weapons, the Sheriff only stationed two men as guards on half a dozen armed prisoners.
And why, if Joseph didn't want to be in jail, did he go in the first place? He was in a city of 15,000 of his supporters, being arrested by the Sheriff and a couple of deputies. Not only did he "go as a lamb to the slaughter," but when the Sheriff remembered that he was also supposed to collect the state-owned militia weapons, they went back into Nauvoo, to the armory, and had the muskets brought out to them. This, after a tearful departure which Joseph had said would be his last from Nauvoo.
This is not the behavior of someone who would turn around and stage a jailbreak -- especially not one in broad daylight, from a jail which was surrounded by anti-Mormons and which was 15 miles away from friendly territory.
Oh, BTW, Ralph, you make the weapons and their use sound as if this were some deep, dark secret of Mormonism. In fact, both the pistols and one of the canes used to try to hold the jail room against the mob are in the this display case which visitors to the Church Museum of Art and History will see as they go through the exhibits.
You and your fellow members of the Liars for Christ movement often claim that Joseph wasn't a "real martyr" because he tried to keep from being killed. If this is the standard, then Paul was not a real martyr, because he used every legal trick he could find to hold off the executioner. Likewise, what about all of those who tried to hide from or fight off the lions in the Coliseum? What's the difference between those martyrs fighting off lions and Joseph fighting off guns?
Ralph wrote: "But isn't it amazing that Mr. Knight, the then president of the apostles for the LDS church, got his "revelation" in the eleventh hour just before the NAACP was taking them to court for racial discrimination?? "
Yes, that really is amazing, considering:
A) there has never a "president of the apostles for the LDS church,"
B), the president of the Church (who received the revelation) was Spencer W. Kimball, and
C), churches are immune from lawsuit over discrimination in doctrines, thus there was never any possibility of such a suit.
I'll take the way this church did it rather than the way your Protestant cultists set up separate "black" churches rather than have those of us whose skin is a different shade sitting in the same pews as you. When I became a Mormon, I couldn't hold the priesthood, this came later, but I was never told to find a different place to worship by any Mormon -- only by Protestants. If I had kept on in Bible college and become a Protestant preacher, I would have had to move to a place where I could find an "Abyssinian" church.
Even today, how many dark-skinned preachers lead light-skinned American congregations? I'd be surprised if the TOTAL number is much higher than the number of LDS wards and branches led by dark-skinned Bishops or Branch Presidents, and we divide our congregations by geography, not melatonin.
Yes, Ralph it is a VERY little to think about. But one thing that I'm thinking about is wondering just how someone claiming to have been a Mormon for 15 years could not know these basic facts?
You don't even know the names of our scriptures! And this you could find by looking at the "all-in-one leather bound" you claim to have to "refute Mormon lies"! Your credibility evaporates rapidly when you say things which are so easily disproven, and which ANY former Mormon would know, much less one who had spent 15 years being raised in the Church. At 15, you would have been in the second office of the Aaronic Priesthood -- it is impossible that any former member of the Priesthood could mangle the name of the Doctrine and Covenants the way you did.
BTW, the are no "10th or 11th" meetings in the home. When I joined there were 8 "discussions" (now it is 6), and the missionaries who taught me told me about this doctrine from the beginning.
Perhaps you need a different scripture: 2Ne 9:34! Not that it would help, you've already disavowed that "thou shalt not bear false witness" one . . . |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 3
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 2:56 am: |
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I think Mormons are affected with madness or insanity,but why wouldn't they be,since they marry their own families,and commit Polygamy?
Above all others I despise mormons! Here's a small taste of why...
Beatings, rapes and illegal "spiritual" unions,widespread child abuse and welfare fraud.Taking young girls and "making" them marry some old fool who already has 6 other wives,and "making" them have a baby,some have to have a baby a year most of these girls have never been outside their compounds and dont even know who the president is,WTF are Mormons they thinking?
If you are Mormon and you read this please seek help! Do it for man-kind,do it for the safety of your children,if not then I hope the FBI gets your ass! Child molesters!
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/5067183/
http://www.exmormon.org |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 4
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 3:13 am: |
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P.S. Warren Jeffs is the worlds most evilest man!
I can't wait for the day when I turn on my TV and see the Task Force taking this man down! Won't be long |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 193
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.239
| | Posted on Monday, February 14, 2005 - 8:48 am: |
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Perhaps my observations are colored by the fact that I have lived in the western-most parts of the US. I have seen many mormon missionaries on the streets. They are easily recognisable. I have never seen a black mormon missionary.
It is true, mormon 'didn't write about js having a gun in hand at his 'martyrdom'. They don't talk about, let alone publish this kind of information until "gentiles, in their words" expose this kind of information.
As for missionaries being, 'up front about the man becoming God thing', my family never heard that from any missionary. This was something I accidentally found out on my own years later. When I asked my very active mormon parents about it, their answer was "yes, but how did you find that out? When you become worthy enough, you will accept it." Only the "worthy" are granted a look into the dark secrets of mormonism.
Ralph, if you find yourself on this post again, be prepared to be called a "liar" by sp. That's what he calls any exmormon when they write about their past as mormons.
I would be willing to bet that if sp were to go to 'missionary meetings' where they are taught what to tell the 'gentiles', the questions and answers would be different from when he became a member. Different people, different classes.
Do mormons still call people who are not members 'gentiles'? |
joesdad (joesdad)
New member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 17
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 8:35 am: |
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Stella - grow up
GC - if the name fits, wear it - you know you lie. |
ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff)
Intermediate Member
Username: ball_of_fluff
Post Number: 177
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.107.60.82
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 6:15 pm: |
|
Stella, The Mormon church no longer permits polygamy. Hasn't in decades or more.
There are some "Mormons" who may intermarry, have polygamous marriages, but those are "Jack Mormons" and thus regarded by the Mormon Church as heretics and not true Mormons.
Lots of spin off sects out there...
You might want to do some research... |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 5
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 16, 2005 - 8:56 pm: |
|
Joesdad I am grown,and ball of fluff I have done lots of research on Mormons,I like to know my enemies!
If you both would refer to the links above ^^ |
joesdad (joesdad)
New member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 18
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 3:56 am: |
|
Stella: I'll be a bit more constructive. None of the things you attempt to brand all Mormons with apply to me, or any of the thousands of Mormons I've met over the last 24 years - in reality, I do ask you to grow up, but not in the off-hand way I said it before.
You really need some spiritual growth, and maturity to be able to work out the lies from the truth, as I assume that you like most people who have such a negative impression of the LDS church, have gained all they know from the leaders in their own church (usually salaried, and of course will put down anything that may challenge their livelihood) or other anti-LDS sources, all of who quote each other as authorities, and rearely if ever quote any direct real authorities on the church - see if you can find any that use references to authorised church publications (other than out of context to further embellish the lies they spout).
I would bet when you buy (or bought) your first home you will look or looked at things it great detail before making your decision, not relying on the seller of the house or their realtor! - why?, because you knew they may not give an unbiased opinion just like any other decision where you will be parting with your well earned cash - however, you have fed yourself on such a biased feed of anti-LDS rubbish that you can do no more than repeat those untruths.
Someone said that Satan would tell you 9 truths to get you to accept one lie - these anti-LDS sites are more daring, their mix of lies is much more potent - and you are being make drunk on the fruit of their lies. |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 7
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 9:50 am: |
|
joesdad-if I argued with a fool,no one would know who the fool is... |
joesdad (joesdad)
New member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 25
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 9:59 am: |
|
Stella, i don't know you well enough to agree |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 9
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:20 am: |
|
point made...^^ |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 26
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 11:31 am: |
|
 Sorry to labour the point, but you said if YOU spoke to a fool no one would know who the fool is - that's you telling the world YOU are a fool, is that your point? |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 10
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 6:04 pm: |
|
recognize the truth that blinds the minds of naive people, who reject the blessed and simple truth but embrace the lies of the Wicked One...ie:the mormon 
and now for your viewing pleasure:
http://crime.about.com/od/current/p/brian_mitchell.htm
http://www.realmormonhistory.com/
PS. Joseph Smith was a perverted,ignorant,thieveing bastard! |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 11
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 6:15 pm: |
|
joesdad-I realize that you are having conflict issues with yourself and religion hence the fact that you keep on feeling the need to explain yourself and your religion to someone you dont know, who doesn't care.
My only concern here is what mormons and their beliefs are doing to innocent children and woman! Obviously I have struck a nerve... |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 222
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.1
| | Posted on Thursday, February 17, 2005 - 6:47 pm: |
|
Stella, If I didn't care I wouldn't spend so much of my time doing further investigation. It has been years since I left the mormon church. My children did also after researching for themselves. I still have family members in the mormon church. I care because people need to hear the whole history of this so called religion, and not what the leaders let be released. These are the same tactics used by countless cults for an organizations gain.
I get very interested when I find out what I and my family were taught has been changed according to what 'society' dictates, and calling it 'new revelation'. The only thing that hasn't changed is that it is a neatly wrapped package of lies, and would be easier to expose if it weren't considered a 'non profit' organization, which it is not.
I am going to quote portions of a letter written by D. Michael Quinn. "In May 1984 my college dean told me he had been instructed by "higher authority" to ask me not to publish a paper I had just presented to the Mormon History Association. It was a historical survey of the public activity of general authorities (mormon leaders) in business corporations. I agreed and told no one.
In 1985 after Dialogue published my article "three apostles" gave orders for my stake president to confiscate my temple recommend . They believed I was guilty of "speaking evil of the Lord's annointed". The stake president also saw this as a back-door effort to have me fired from Brigham Young University. END
The mormon church has always had a problem trying to hide their history. Why do they want it hid? The answer should be obvious, but diehard mormon members agree with their leaders that it should be hid, obviously.
I want to add a comment made by and printed in the Salt Lake Tribune on Sept. 20, 1993:
Apostle Boyd Packer of the Quorum of the twelve apostles identified }feminists, homosexuals, and intellectuals as the three dangers facing the Mormon Church. |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 12
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:11 am: |
|
Godchild-I am truely sorry for all that you and your family have went through.I hear these stories very often and it saddens me,I agree with you 110% about the tactics that cults and organizations use.
I myself had a long time childhood friend taken away by a "organization",it was someone I knew for about 30 years.I can't explain the hurt I felt,I was like a outsider looking in,I seen it all happen but yet I was unable to bring this very intelligent person to light of what they were doing.My friend although living with me and talking with me could not hear what I was saying it was as if I was talking to a person who was on the other side of a brick wall.There was one point when my friend came back,but soon the phone calls came along from the "organization" with what I assume was feelings of guilt or shame for fleeing,also I believe he had thoughts of not surviving without them,I seen a strong man become weak,a man I admired for years, and back he went,haven't seen him since and I will never really heal from that it's been 7 years now,what a sad story to tell of such a wonderful,liked,intelligent person.I sometimes think people need so much to feel accepted or some sort of security that they let it consume them and fall victim to these "cults".
I am glad you got out,things happen in life to good people for a reason,even though at the time it is heart breaking or seems so unfair,in your case it lead you out of what could have been a potentially dangerious environment for you and your family.Any time you need to talk or vent,I will be here...Take care and best of luck to you and yours~
PS.I believe the Mormon church will be it's own down fall,people are much more aware these days to what is going on,it's only a matter of time.We live in a free country,men can not break laws of our nation and keep standing. |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 13
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 12:32 am: |
|
solopilot- so funny that just today I read about how Mormons "train" females to think,you are so typical,I feel very sorry for you.You just showed how controlled you are...
Here's my point: you said to mormon_girl "I've brought up these points on a number of occasions"
referring to MG's points of name calling "drink... gamble.... gossip.... dress like hookers....swear every other word" but yet you end your post with calling people who name call bigots "we're all friends here, so don't take it personally when someone calls you names. It's either one of the bigots, or just someone who doesn't know any better"
You just contradicted yourself? You condemned name calling then you turned around and did name calling,how is that fair dear?
Seems you are a brainwashed victim of the bigotry at SLD?! Furthermore,you have issues because a strong female had the good common sense to wake up and walk away from the mormons and if she doesn't want to remember "such as forgetting what the Standard Works are" maybe she doesn't want to remember,maybe she doesn't want to futher your cause,I suspect many reasons,people try to forget things that caused them serious grief as you will hopefully one day. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 29
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 4:01 am: |
|
STELLA - OF COURSE YOU KNOW NOTHING ABOUT ME, YOU MUST HAVE FORGOTTEN THAT THIS IS A "CULT" DISCUSSION SITE - TO ME DISCUSSION MEANS DIALOGUE BETWEEN TWO OR MORE PEOPLE WHERE THEY HAVE THE OPPORTUNITY TO EXPRESS THEIR OWN VIEWS - SO I'M NOT SURE WHAT ELSE YOU EXPECT ME TO DO! - AND THE INNOCENT MEN?
O.K. AS WITH MOST OF THOSE WHO POST ANTI-LDS STUFF HERE YOU RESORT TO NAME CALLING WHERE YOU CAN'T SUBSTANTIAITE IN AN INTELLIGENT WAY YOUR ACCUSATIONS - MY MUM TOLD ME THAT SWEARING WAS THE WAY PEOPLE EXPRESSED THEIR FRUSTRATION AT NOT BEING ABLE TO EXPRESS THEMSELVES - SEEMS ANTI-LDS SUFFER FROM A SIMILAR FRUSTRATION.
YOU DON'T MENTION WHAT GROUP YOUR FRIEND BECAME INVOLVED WITH
IT IS INSULTING WHEN PEOPLE WHO KNOW NOTHING OF ME, MY PAST, EDUCATION, LOCATION MAKE ACCUSATIONS LEVELLED AT ME AND THE CHURCH AS A WHOLE. THOUGH NOT SOMETHING YOU HAVE SAID, I DO FIND IT HIGHLY AMUSING WHEN PEOPLE STATE AS IF FACT WHAT I BELIEVE AND THAT I AM BRAINWASHED - I TAKE IT YOUR LAND OF THE FREE ONLY EXTENDS TO BEING FREE TO WHAT YOU AGREE WITH, YES?
GC: IT IS INTERESTING TO READ SOME OF THE BACKGROUND TO YOUR LEAVING THE CHURCH, WHICH HELPS ME UNDERSTAND YOUR ANGLE ON THINGS A LOT (I MEAN IN A POSITIVE WAY!) - I KNOW PROM PERSONAL EXPERIENCE HOW DIFFICULT IT CAN BE OVERCOMING EXCOMMUNICATION, I FELT TOTALLY JUSTIFIED IN MY ACTIONS WHEN MY DISCIPLINARY HEARING WAS CONVENED.
WHAT I DO FIND CONFUSING, IS HOW WILLING YOU ARE TO ACCEPT ANY TYPE OF LDS BASHING, EVEN WHEN YOU SURELY KNOW IT IS A LIE - CR MY "WOAMAN SCORNED" REF ON ANOTHER THREAD |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 33
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 7:27 am: |
|
GC: Is there a web site for Dialogue - I'd be interested in reaindg your article |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 34
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 7:37 am: |
|
Can't type!! |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 226
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.17
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 1:37 pm: |
|
There are numerous websites by people who have left the Mormon Church. I spent much time praying and thinking this morning. I also reread the scriptures that say
Phillipians 2:14 Do all things without murmurings and disputings
Which brings me back to the first part of the chapter:If there be therefore any consolation in Christ, if any comfort of love, if any fellowship of the spirit, if any bowels and mercies. Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind. Let nothing be done through strife or vainglory; but in lowliness of mind let each esteem other better than themselves. Look not every man on his own things, but every man also on the things of others. Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus: Who being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God: but he made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men: and being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obediant unot death, even the death of the cross.
If I am guilty of 'personal attacks', I ask forgiveness. I will only make attacks against the mormon church, not it's people.
Sorry you still don't understand, Joesdad, I did not find it difficult to overcome excommunication. I asked to be excommunicated. I went to the branch president and two other men in private conference. They asked me why I wanted to be excommunicated. I told them I do not believe they will ever be Gods. I told them there is one God, the God of the Holy Bible.
They agreed to excommunicate me verbally. It was months later that I (not receiving a letter of excommunication) posted a simple letter to my local newspaper stating; I no longer wish to be a member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. I soon after recieved my letter from Salt Lake saying I was excommunicated. And that was that. Then began my (I'll say battle for want of a better word) battle with family members and in-laws; saying to my husband I have given my soul to the devil. It was and is through the power of the Holy Spirit in me that I was able to become stronger in my convictions that the Mormon Church was organized on lies, and the Church has changed their doctrine, and continues to try to cover it's tracks amidst hundreds if not thousands of allegations (with evidence and witnesses) against it's practices.
This is my testimony, once again. I am so thankful to my Lord for carrying me to this place in my life, and for forgiving me my exuberance which can hurt people's feelings. |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 15
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 1:59 pm: |
|
joesdad-boy you turned that ship around fast..LMAO
I dont mention my friends organization because I feel the need to protect him,I have seen that org post on factnet,dont worry they are not mormons,that org hates mormons more than I. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 230
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.250
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 2:49 pm: |
|
Stella, I came back on to thank you for your kind words. I know the draw mormonism has for some people. I was one of them and would mock any member of another denomination who tried to speak to me about it. That is the reason I will not join any 'religion'. I have said this before. Anyone who reads these posts has to be blind not to see how emotional people get over the "MY, MINE, game that satan loves. I have attended other churches but as soon as they say I have to be rebaptized 'into their church', I know they are try to lead me into the "MY, MINE" trap. I am able to spend my time more 'fruitfully' in my 'personal' relationship with GOD. I am not saying this works for everyone, but it does for me, and the Lord is pleased. |
stella (stella)
New member
Username: stella
Post Number: 20
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 3:43 pm: |
|
godchild- you seem to be very happy now,as long as you believe and be true to yourself,no one can say nay to you.
You dont have to be a member of anything to show faith,your home can serve you well,and it also elminates the MY,MINE game.
Best wishes to you~ |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 231
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.120
| | Posted on Friday, February 18, 2005 - 5:32 pm: |
|
Stella, Best wishes to you also, and I hope your friend, wherever he is, has good memories of you. I am grateful to still have a warm relationship with my Mother. Expressing love was difficult for her even with her children, but now that has changed. I think that is the reason she joined in the first place. She was a workaholic and thought only hardworking people were worthy of man's and God's love. Now she understands her values are not necessarily a model for happiness and salvation. After all, there are numerous reasons people cannot "work" in the sense mormons speak of. Some are disabled; what about them. Loving is the one thing we all have to give, if we will find it in ourselves to share it, to give it freely, and I believe Jesus wants us to understand it, otherwise he wouldn't have felt the need to make an eleventh commandment. When we follow that commandment, all the others will be practiced, with little thought to the right who, what, where, when and why. Love is the greatest WORK. The only truly valuable work.
The coolest part is the bible says "God is Love".
I think it can be simplified when we see that works can mean, for example: the works of a clock. The guts. Know what I mean. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 36
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 3:32 pm: |
|
GC: I'm still interested in reading the article |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 240
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.213
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 5:21 pm: |
|
Dr. Quinn taught at BYU. If you really want to see the article, call the university. I doubt you will find it as the lds church is notorious for hiding things and calling it, "I don't put you in that place". |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 241
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.213
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 5:30 pm: |
|
You can read the article anytime you take the time to find it, that is, if it hasn't been destroyed as so many other articles, books, etc. are destroyed or hid. First I think you should stop skipping over what you want to read and respond to what you should be willing to examine, on your own. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 242
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.213
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 5:32 pm: |
|
I would love to see your wife or sp's girlfriend read these posts and respond, if they are allowed. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 40
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 6:33 pm: |
|
G.C THIS IS MRS.JOESDAD- I HAVE READ ALL THAT YOU HAVE TO SAY( above) it seems very clear to me that you are more un-happy about how the church dealt with you, and think that putting us down is going to make you feel better about it. PERSONALLY I LIKE TO DISCUSS THE gospel face to face with people that is why i do not go on these sites. a leader once told me that if someone who say's they no longer want to be a member continues to write to him and explain this choice'. he does not worry. the reason being that they are obviously hankering after that which they don't want. it is when they go silent that he worries. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 244
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.61.243
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 6:35 pm: |
|
I was asked by mormon solopilot to name corporations owned by the Mormon (LDS)church.
So I surfed and found the Mormon stock index.
Their index lists almost fifty corporations owned by the mormon church. There are over a dozen more that aren't included why?....Because they don't have $10 BILLION required to be considered.
Deseret Books alone is diversified into four main imprints:
Deseret Books
Bookcraft
Eagle Gate
Shadow Mountain
I started reading information about who are the CEO's of these corporations. I'll give you two guesses. I didn't take the time to read all of them but I will if anyone is interested.
So much for a non-profit organization. Tithing is also tax deductible. |
stella (stella)
Junior Member
Username: stella
Post Number: 31
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 6:52 pm: |
|
MRS.JOESDAD- You have to have a leader??? Did you know that woman are free,it's 2005? You are a sorry excuse for a woman and very weak minded! Your pre-programmed attacks are flawless,bet the church is proud of you?!
So... how long has the church had a hold of your brain?
RUN JOE RUN,YOUR PARENTS ARE MORMON!!! |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 41
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 7:14 pm: |
|
stella- this is mrs.joesdad again...my grandma ( 100 years old) burned her bra sometime ago and taught me to do the same...brain what's a brain?--BUT THEN AGAIN I WOULD NOT EXPECT YOU TO KNOW!---GUESS WHO JOE WAS NAMED AFTER??? |
stella (stella)
Junior Member
Username: stella
Post Number: 36
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 8:03 pm: |
|
MRS/MR.?.JOESDAD- aka mormon morphodite,transsexual?!
where the offense is, let the great axe fall...feel the blood spill from your mouth? |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 245
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.159
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 9:30 pm: |
|
As I have repeatedly stated, I am not speaking against mormon people. I speak against the mormon organization. You have every right to believe what you wish. More's the pity, if you truly want to know the Lord, mormonism is a sorry substitute.
I don't have time this eve as I am reading a new book I ordered; Getting Through The Tough Stuff by Charles R. Swindoll. It is nothing about mormonism, just dealing with day to day living with the holy spirit to guide me. Interestingly enough the eighth chapter speaks about Getting Through The Tough Stuff of Confrontation. In it Dr. Swindoll is speaking about, though the Bible does not use the word 'confrontation' there are synonyms for it.
Reproof
He is on the path of life who heeds instruction,
But he who ignores reproof goes astray. (Proverbs 12:1)
I love reading the Holy Bible. There is so much to help me each day.
I will share the others with you.
Rebuke: A rebuke goes deeper into one who has understanding than a hundred blows into a fool. (Proverbs 17:10)
Wound: Faithful are the wounds of a friend, but deceitful are the kisses of an enemy. (Proverbs 27:6)
Correct:
Correct your son, and he will give you comfort; He will also delight your soul. (Proverbs 29:17
And the last is discipline:
It is for discipline that you endure; god deals with you as with sons; for what son is there whom his father does not discipline? But if you are without discipline, of which all have become partakers, then you are illegitimate children and not sons. (Hebrews 12:7-8)
My life is a lesson for eternity. It is important that I share what I learn. Don't you think that is a good thing, to learn about things, and then make decisions? And when you find truth, especially when it leads to eternal life, don't you want to share it? Perhaps not, but by posting about mormonism, my prayer is maybe one person will be saved the years I wasted as a member of the mormon church.
It was nice to hear from a female mormon for a change, if that is what you are. Whether or not, I hope you have a nice evening.
As for hankering after 'what I don't want' I'm afraid that is not my desire. That would be pretty silly for anyone. Perhaps you mistyped. Maybe you should advise Joesdad about going 'onto these sights', instead of telling me, a stranger who cannot possibly harm you. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 246
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.159
| | Posted on Saturday, February 19, 2005 - 9:32 pm: |
|
No one has to worry 'when I go silent'. When I do the work here for me will be done. |
stella (stella)
Junior Member
Username: stella
Post Number: 37
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 3:06 am: |
|
Hey Mormons-
FACT TIME:...1."Women", cannot become priests or church leaders, and cannot become gods(still laughing at that one)... may be this is one reason why in the Mormon Church women have the highest rate of suicides in the nation, the highest percentage in mental institutions, and the highest percentage of divorces in the nation.
2.the Mormon Church has assets of $8 "billion", making it the wealthiest Protestant Church in America... not everything is free!... all this fortune comes from the "deceived members", they end up giving to the Church their money, time, and life.
*2 damn good reason to get out*!!!
PS. I believe we anti-mormons were invited here due to the original post. |
stella (stella)
Junior Member
Username: stella
Post Number: 38
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 68.52.190.227
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 3:18 am: |
|
"Contents" of the Book of Mormon:It is another great deception:
The Book relates a thousand-year history of a lost tribe of Israelites who left Palestine and came to America to become the ancestors of the Native Americans. The leader of the lost tribe was Lehi, who had two sons: Laman and Nephi. They lived in pease and love, until the Lamanites became bad people, who fought and annihilated the Nephites near Palmyra, N.Y. in 428 AC But, before his demise, Mormon, the Nephite leader, wrote and buried his Book, including the appearance of Christ in America, after his resurrection, instituting the ordinances of baptism, communion, and priesthood.
The Book was published in 1830, with the subtitle "Another Testament of Jesus Christ", and it is the most sacred scripture for the Mormons, "the most correct book of any on earth"...
But here comes the big deception:The Mormon's doctrine often contradicts the Book of Mormon's doctrine:
The Book says, "there is only one God", Mormonism teaches "there are many gods" (Mosiah 15:1-5, Alma 11:28, 2 Nephi 31:21, Journal of Discourses, Smith, Vol.6, pag..5).
The Book says, "the Trinity is one God", Mormonism teaches, "the Trinity is 3 separate gods" (Alma 11:44, Mosiah 15:5, 2 Nephi 31:21, Articles of Faith,Talmage, pag.35, 1985).
The Book says, "God is Spirit", Mormonism teaches "God has the form of a man" (Alma 18:24,28, Journal of Discourses, Smith, Vol.6, p.3.
The Book says, "polygamy condemned", but polygamy was taught and practiced (Jacob 1:15, 2:23-31, Ether 10:5,7, Mosiah 11:2,4, Journal of Discourses, Young, Vol.3, p.266).
And another big deception:
At least 12 essential Mormon doctrines are not found in the Book of Mormon: The Church organization, the Aaronic priesthood, Celestial Marriage, Baptism for the Dead, men my become gods, the pre-existing doctrine, the 3 degrees of glory in heaven, eternal progression, God is an exalted man, plurality of gods, plurality of wives doctrine, Word of Wisdom...
The "biggest deception":
The "biggest deception" of the Mormons is that their "Sacred Books" contradict each other, so, if you tell them that Mormonism teaches that there are many gods, they will show you the Book of Mormon teaching that there is only one God... and so forth...
PS.When they go to your home, they show you some of their "Articles of Faith", those appealing to a good Christian, but they are very deceptive: For example, the Article 1 says, "We believe in God, the eternal Father, and in his son, Jesus Christ, and in the Holy Spirit"... but they don't say that they are 3 gods!... and they don't say that the Father is "eternal" only because he has no end, like any other men, but he had a beginning, so, he was actually "not eternal"... Article 8 says, "We believe the Bible to be the word of God as far as it is translated correctly"... but they don't explain to you that the "right translation" of Smith contains 1,475 verses changed from the real Bible.
feeling brainwashed yet???
I am so thankful that I have never been a mormon and that I can say none of my family & friends have ever been... |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 250
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.28
| | Posted on Sunday, February 20, 2005 - 9:29 am: |
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Why are mormons now addressing their no.1 apostle (prophet, God's mouthpiece on earth) as President?
Does God now appoint presidents to lead his diciples? Did mormons decide it is 'politically correct' to use the word President instead of apostle, prophet?
Or, have mormons decided that since they have become so 'rich and powerful in the world' they think "yes, he's our President, not a prophet, so what ya gonna do about it".
Or do mormons call him "president of our own little government within a government", the government of the U.S.A..
I read an article some time back that the FBI hires many young mormon men because of their outward appearance of cleanliving, etc. Is this true?
Is it true that mormons hate democrats, as stated by one of their leaders? (democrats in a democratic society)?
Have the mormons given up on their 'communistic' belief that their government owns all and therefore the people own all. An apologist here admitted they had failed in one attempt at communistic living. What he didn't say was it failed because the people were not willing to give everything they owned to the leaders.
I say 'power to the people' who trust in Jesus Christ, God who because he loves us so, became man, to take upon himself all our sins, in order to save us, and to leave in us 'believers' his Holy Spirit to comfort us.
True believers understand (by the power of the Holy Spirit in us) the riches of the world are for a short time. You can't take it with you, folks. You do not come closer to God by offering your riches, but by willingness to become a servant, such as Christ was.
And by servant, I do not mean slave to leaders of an organization who fool you into thinking you can buy your way into heaven. |
see_the_light (see_the_light)
New member
Username: see_the_light
Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 67.154.233.150
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 9:16 pm: |
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Question that deserves to be answered-If the book of mormon restored the gospel then can anyone give me specific scriptures in the BOM only that support restoraion/accepting of the following acts/beliefs/rituals-(1) Natural Progression to Godhood, (2)Baptism for the Dead, (3) Temple Marriages, (4)polygamy (once practiced), (5)God has a body of flesh and bones, (6) God is product of eternal progression, (6) God "organized" the world rather than "created" it, (7) These is no eternal hell and punishment, (8) Men can become gods, (9) "Intelligences" are eternal, (10) Pre-existing spirits of men, (11) Three degrees of glory, (12) A "Mother" in heaven, (13) A Melchizedek Priesthood consisting of the offices of Elder, Seventy and High Priest. (14) LDS Temple Ritual, (15) The Wearing of "temple garments".
Facts-I am a Christain with a passion of accomphish our commission-tell people the people about the love/sacrifice that Jesus has given to ALL!!
I do not hate mormons nor am I anti-mormon. I have attended a LDS wedding, more than 20 services, 5-7 picnic/socials, several plays/sing alongs. At first I was caught up in the outward appearance of LDS, but I prayed very long and hard for guidance on whether or not to join the church. After a couple of weeks, everytime I went to a LDS function, I got extremely sick (vomiting/upset stomach, etc.) or felt uneasy. I still have friends in the LDS church and started studying/researching everything I could about LDS to explain my GUT feeling. I have found numerous resources, but nothing compared to the truth I have found in the Bible (more to follow). I thank the LDS friends and missionaries for reiterating my own need for Prayer of acceptance. Jesus answered with NO very loud and clear to the acceptance into the LDS community and a crystal clear picture of LDS.
Favorite Passage: "JESUS WEPT"-He is crying for all the lost souls that are making the wrong decision in life. He loves us so. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 270
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.59
| | Posted on Tuesday, February 22, 2005 - 10:05 pm: |
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Thank God that you used the Holy Bible as your source of learning. I believe the Holy Bible is God-breathed. Although mormons will say there was a time when the authority left the earth and that JS restored it, I have read another passage in the bible today that states it would never be taken from the earth. God is spirit, Jesus is God, he sent the holy spirit to be with the believers. The more I learn of mormon history, I think JS started believing the bible; re: book of mormon saying there is one God (Nephi).Mormons say they believe that but later they started teaching Adam was God. I think JS got on a power trip and fell as low as a man can fall. The sorry thing about it is the original leaders are dragging other innocents (some, not all) down that same road. I don't think Joesdad is on a power trip but it is obvious SP is. My God is a compassionate, forgiving God. I could never have that capability after being treated as Jesus Christ was. I hope other believers are praying this evening that the angels of the Lord will surround him and that he will see the truth of God's love for him. |
see_the_light (see_the_light)
New member
Username: see_the_light
Post Number: 2
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 67.154.233.150
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 8:33 am: |
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The TRUTH is that I can not say that the BOM is completely false for it contains more than 4000 (estimate) words taken directly from the Holy Bible. The BOM actual clearly condemns these rituals/beliefs in 20+ passages that the precious gifts of JS were not given to us in the BOM and are not TRUE biblical teachings. One such passage is Alma 34:35 which clearly states that we are sealed upon death to satan if we do not believe.
The questions still remain for I have just reiterated the facts/scriptures that Stella posted earlier. With clear contradiction of guiding principles, how can any sensible person not look at the written facts and realize that the "proof is not in the pudding". Those practices are an abomination in the sight of God.
Last night I had the privilege of witnessing to a young man that has been battling cocaine, mj and alcohol along with other moral issues. Last night at Midnight my Savior, Jesus saved this man thru his blood that was shed on the cross. A 275# man was on his knees crying asking for forgiveness and he got it. All the glory and thanks be given to Jesus.
We must be gentle in our presentation of the Truth. We must put aside our pride and just plant the seed. Jesus will take care of the rest-"as His will be done and on his time table" |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 272
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.168
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 10:27 am: |
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I accept rebuke for I know it is given through love. I will keep that young man in my thoughts and prayers today. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 44
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 11:44 am: |
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Firstly, GC : Please do not take my failure to respond to some of your enquiries as my not wanting to, at the moment Work and Family are taking most of my time, and as I rarely get access to the net at home, I do find it frustrating that I ca't express my feelings and beliefs in greater detail and more effectively, but that's life!
see-the-light: just briefly (and for the moment inadequately) Your first premise is incorrect, and therefore makes the remainder of your questions fall - we do not claim the BoM restored the Gospel - but that Heavenly Father through Joseph Smith restored the Gospel - hence references to some of the matters you mention not appearing in the BoM, remember, it's another testament of Jesus Christ not an encyclopedia of Mormonism! |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 273
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.14
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 1:31 pm: |
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Did/does the lds church teach that Jesus Christ was married to more than one Mary, (plural wives)? |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 280
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.14
| | Posted on Wednesday, February 23, 2005 - 2:33 pm: |
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The Mormon Church's own chain of bookstores, 'Deseret Book' is an excellent source for the majority of referenced materials, including CD Roms with a vast collection of original books, manuscripts, etc.
I, personally, do not have a need to go there. This is to show that all the denials can be investigated quite easily by Mormons who really want to know about their own church. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 45
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 8:40 am: |
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GC: Why not open a whole can of worms ehhh? - official standpoint, so far as I am aware, there have been no OFFICIAL statements by the church that Jesus was ever married, though there are quotes from early Apostles to indicate that he was. Though on this point, may I suggest you Google "Was Jesus Married" - there are some very intersting results, with official declarations from groups that I would hazzard a guess you would consider Christian, that blatantly state he was married - please explain all of these away!!! - as for whether he had a polygamous marriage, as i said, the church has not so far as I am aware found the need to make a statement upon this point.
I am still very concerned that your understandng of LDS beliefs have become confused with the anti-LDS stuff which claims to state what we believe.
I see you comment that we believe in the Adam God theory, which if you had done the slightest amount of research you would know is not true (in the way it is suggested by anti-LDS), and which I ask you to publicly confirm whether you had EVER had that taught as a principle of the Restored Gospel during your church memebrship, I NEVER have in 24 years - so did I miss that Sunday? - nor do I believe it (in the way anti-LDS say I do)
President = some who presides, so what's political about the proper use of an English word? - making hollow points my dear! |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 46
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 9:37 am: |
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Two excellent quotes:
"There are many subjects about which the scriptures are not clear and about which the Church has made no official pronouncements. In such matters, one can find differences of opinion among Church members and leaders. Until the truth of these matters is made known by revelation, there is room for different levels of understanding and interpretation of unsettled issues."
(M. Gerald Bradford and Larry E. Dahl, "Doctrine," Encyclopedia of Mormonism, 4 vols., ed. Daniel H. Ludlow (New York: Macmillan, 1992), 1:395.)
Having the Spirit of God move you from time to time does not make you perfect. Being a chosen and ordained prophet does not make every opinion true, nor does it make one superior in every area of knowledge. Reverend J.R. Dummelow (not LDS and whom all serious Bible scholars will be familiar with) described the authors/translators of the Bible in terms that ought to be applied, in all fairness, to Joseph Smith as well (J.R. Dummelow, One Volume Bible Commentary, p. 85):
"Though purified and ennobled by the influence of the His Holy Spirit, these men each had his own peculiarities of manner and disposition - each with his own education or want of education - each with his own way of looking at things - each influenced differently from one another by the different experiences and disciplines of his life. Their inspiration did not involve a suspension of their natural faculties; it did not make them free from earthly passion; it did not make them into machines - it left them men.
Therefore we find their knowledge sometimes no higher than that of their contemporaries...." |
joesdad (joesdad)
Junior Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 50
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 10:21 am: |
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And a fun one:
Bigamists were authorized as priests by Pope “St.” Siricius (General Legislation in the New Code of Canon Law, 179). according to Catholic Encyclopedia (XIII, 729). From:http://www.starbible.com/books/catholicism/chpt07.html
(Message edited by JOESDAD on February 24, 2005) |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 282
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.62.41
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 7:46 pm: |
|
I want to make a sincere public apology. To reaffirm what I have known for many years, the Mormon Church owns corporations. When solopilot asked me, what corporations, I went on a web search. I found one that although I didn't realize it until today, is misleading.
The site is called Mormons today.com.
The heading is All the News about Mormons, Mormonism and the LDS Church.
The information gave a list of the Mormon stock index, leading me to believe these are corporations owned by the lds church. It also lists mormons who are ceo and chairmen, treasurers, etc. Upon receiving a post this morn, I have spent the day doing some research.
First, I wrote an email to All about Mormons. I asked him if the Lds church owned the corporations listed on his page. I recieved his response back a short time ago. I quote;
"You'd better look at the Mormon Stock Index again.
No one ever claimed that the Mormon Church owned or participated in ANY of the companies on the index. I think you assumed that without looking at the details of the website."
Whether they meant for people visiting that website to believe the church owned these corporations or not, I believed them. I was in error.
I found a website under LDS Church called 'mormons today' that seems to be honest about people's answers to their questions and also is will to give a history of the church. I do not know if it is complete, but most of what I have quoted here prior to today is confirmed by them.
They also have a list of LDS Church owned corps. and companies with an lengthy explanation for why they have businesses. Anyone can go to this site and ask whatever questions they want, which I think is a good idea. I will no longer be posting here after I read and perhaps respond to posts written today. Again, please accept my apologies. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 283
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.62.41
| | Posted on Thursday, February 24, 2005 - 7:55 pm: |
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Joesdad, You could have posted all that before now and settled a lot of issues I and others have about the LDS Church and how you feel about your prophets.
Back to the HOLY BIBLE; which gives warnings about false prophets. WARNINGS not to believe them. Was this translated incorrectly? In your opinion.
As for ADAM/God theory. My stepfather was a president of our branch and bishop of the stake, I think it was called. I don't recall.
In my mother's and his home was a huge library of Church books, which he studied voraciously. He allowed me to read them any time I wished. I don't think he was comfortable with it, but he allowed it What could he say? And yes, I read a book way back in the 70's about the belief that Adam and God were the same man. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 52
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 9:33 am: |
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GC: The Bible as a whole? - only joking - of course the the Bible quite definitely warns against false prophets, does it give examples of how to recognise one?
With no hint of sarcasm, your honesty here is very refreshing. It is a pity that you do not recall those other quotes from Brigham Young which quite clearly show that he did not believe that Adam is our Heavenly Father.
Your experience with the misleading web page should be held up as the perfect example of what I find frustrating about anti-LDS websites, and books authored by self proclaimed experts - they are produced for one reason, and that more often than not cannot be discerned by the casual reader / visitor - they claim to inform, but in fact decieve - as to why?, there is only one true deceiver I know of!. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 288
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.62
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 12:10 pm: |
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Joesdad, Have you ever read the Journal of Discourses? (a mormon book)
See volume 1, pg 50
Brigham Young speaking, "Now hear it, O inhabitants of the earth, Jew and Gentile, Saint and sinner! When our Father Adam came into the Garden of Eden, he came into it with a Celestial body, and brought Eve, one of his wives with him. He helped to make and organise this world. He is Michael, The Archangel, the Ancient of days, about whom holy men have written or spoken. He is our Father and our God, and the only God with whom we have to do. Every man on the earth, professing Christians or non professing, must hear it and know it sooner or later."
See Brigham Young papers, from the Church Historians Office, in Salt Lake City.
Feb. 19, 1854,
"Speaking of Jesus Christ", Brigham Young said during a discourse given on Sunday night, "Who begat him? His Father, and his Father is our God, and the Father of our spirits, and he is the framer of the body, the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ. Who is He? He is Adam; Michael, the Ancient of Days.
See Deseret News, June 14, 1873
Brigham Young speaking, "How much unbelief exists in the minds of the Latter Day Saints in regards to one particular doctrine which I revealed to them, and which God revealed to me, namely that Adam is Our Father and God."
If you think Brigham Young was misquoted, give one reference where Brigham Young ever said he was misquoted.
I will show you later a statement made by Mormon apologists about Brigham Youngs teachings. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 57
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 6:25 pm: |
|
GC: I believe the following makes clear the churches standpoint on the subject:
By President (Prophet) Spencer W. Kimball, made in the Priesthood session of October conference 1976.
"We hope that you who teach in the various organizations, whether on the campuses or in our Chapels, will always teach the orthodox truth. We warn you against the dissemination of doctrines which are not according to the Scriptures and which are alleged to have been taught by some of the General Authorities of past generations. such, for instance, is the Adam-God theory. We denounce that theory and hope that everyone will be cautioned against this and other kinds of false doctrine." (See Ensign, November 1976 p. 77)
There is not enough room here to discuss what Brigham said, may I suggest you go to http://www.fairlds.org/ where there are some great papers on the point.
With respect, I am sure most of the misquotes came after his death, much easier to attack a dead man's words. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 289
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.9
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 7:37 pm: |
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This is the refusal I spoke of on the 'funny thread'. To say Spencer Kimball changed the mormon doctrine does not mean Brigham Young taught the Adam-God theory. I aske you again if you have read the Journal of Discourses or if you have read other documents owned by the church stating such doctrine.
One of my points has always been that the LDS church claims to be the 'only unchanged church' as in doctrine. The church Historian's office is an LDS office. The Deseret News is an LDS owned newspaper.
If the LDS believes they have authority from God and Prophets who say they are told by God so many things that the church says antimormons have changed. The prophets have changed, not antimormons. How can you deny that. Another important change was blacks holding the priesthood. Joseph and Brigham said many times concerning these doctrines that it is and always will be forever.
There are too many other prophets that quoted Joseph and Brigham's words as gospel. How can you balance all this evidence. You do not want to see. And you never said whether you had heard or read these things since you have been a member. And if not, why not? Did you not know those books were in existence, or did you just not want to see them? I don't understand how an intelligent person can continue to ignore all this evidence if his mind and heart are open, and is not afraid to give all (or give up all) for the truth. Can you really be satisfied and content? |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 291
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.3
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 8:11 pm: |
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Anyone can recieve knowledge. Not all knowledgeable people comprehend the knowledge they have learned. It is only by using the knowledge with faith in God, that we comprehend his glory, power, mercy, love, patience, etc. Without comprehending, I could say I have knowledge of God, (what I've read or heard others say), but that does not mean I believe in him, that I know him, that I see him in every day and minute of my life. Comprende'?  |
franklin (franklin)
Intermediate Member
Username: franklin
Post Number: 366
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 205.188.117.12
| | Posted on Friday, February 25, 2005 - 10:23 pm: |
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Bogus religion, bogus doctrines, bogus prophets.
"Joseph Smith was a prophet, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum, dum." |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 58
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Saturday, February 26, 2005 - 1:53 pm: |
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GC: Too much presumption, and not enough fact methinks - the Church has not decalred any doctrine such as the Adam God theory, simply because someone within the church investigates a theory (in the true sense of the word) does not make it Mormon Doctrine, to try to claim otherwise would be nonsense.
I recall that in the mid 1800's, the Patent Office was declared as defunct as all inventions had been made!
I read what they said as what they said, yiu read it to back up an incorrect presumption, I look with an open mind, you having already deciding awhat you read says before looking at the words.
I am content I have been given, and have the ability to investigate any theory and discover the truth, wherever it may be. In reality it is you that is bound, as you stand by the false principles encouraged by anti-LDS, can't you see that?
I comprehend!
Franklin: Missed you, any chance of the question raised on another thread being answered? Maybe you and GC can put your heads together for the response!! (Q re:origin of the Devil)
Love you both to bits! |
erichard (erichard)
New member
Username: erichard
Post Number: 1
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 66.82.9.47
| | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 12:38 am: |
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I studied the Adam-God teadhings of President Young when I was around BYU. I would feel some exhileration when reading these quotes, but never could reconcile them with the scriptures.
But eventually I had a spiritual experience finding the revelations of the Second Book of Commandments. It reveals, I am convinced, the truth of the Adam-God controversy.
http://www.2bc.info/R2223.html
http://www.2bc.info/
Richard |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 62
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 4:44 am: |
|
ERICHARD: nOT MCUH BETTER THAN THE ANTI-lds ARE YOU?, JUST THERE TO CONFUSE AND LEAD AWAY.
FOR ANYONE LOOKING AT THOSE SITES REFERRED TO ABOVE, THESE ARE NOTHING TO DO WITH THE CHURCH AND DO NOT IN ANY WAY REPRESENT IT'S BELIEFS OF TEACHINGS - WE DO NOT BELIEVE IN OR ACCEPT THE "SECOND BOOK OF COMMANDMENTS" |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 297
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.202
| | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 7:29 pm: |
|
The devil was an angel who fell. I will say again, an angel is not a man nor a man an angel. The devil can never be man. Jesus and the devil are not and never were brothers. Jesus is God. If you disagree you are saying God begat the devil. The whole idea is totally against what the bible teaches. And The Book of Mormon agrees with the Bible on these points. Where did JS and BY go wrong. I say they, like the devil, thought they could be gods, just as the devil lied to Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden. If you follow their teachings, you follow the devil. God forbid and have mercy on you. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 302
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.152
| | Posted on Monday, February 28, 2005 - 9:22 pm: |
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joesdad, Do you still deny Brigham Young taught the Adam/God theory? Be honest. Do you still deny your prophets taught blacks would never hold the priesthood? Do you still deny they taught that polyamy would never end?
Just like your counterpart, you never answer the questions. Did Brigham Young own a liquor store?
Did Joseph Smith marry girls who were already married? Why can't you answer these questions.
They only require a yes or no. If you deny it, do you deny you are taught Joseph Smith and Brigham Young spoke to and saw God and Jesus?
Do you deny the present prophets deny what Joseph and Brigham taught. Do you deny the church said, When Joe or Brigham says it, God said it to them? Answer the questions.
Only when you do will anyone be able to decide whether you are led by frauds and liars and blasphemers, or by true Prophets of God, the one and only Living God. Do you deny the Book of Mormon taught one God, that God and Christ are one? Forget about what you say about they being like you and your employer, do you agree your 'bible' teaches God and Christ are one?
Answer the Questions.
You keep accusing us of opening up cans of worms. Your doctrines are full of worms. We repeat what your Leaders taught.
Why would we sit around and make up these horrendous stories of experiences we have had as mormons that are so alike. Do we have so much power that we are members of a grand club organized to 'slander the mormon church'.
I do not know any of these people who are sharing like experiences. I did not publish my experiences as a mormon. How do we all get the same information? A GRAND conspiracy against the poor persecuted mormon church. Nonsense! We will tell the truth. There is no need for lies and fiction. The truth of mormonism is stranger than fiction.
If you say my Mother is a selfish person who does not understand your scriptures, then explain to me why she has been through the mormon temple numerous times and has been sealed to her husband and members of her family who have died. How did she convince your people that she was a sincere faithful follower of mormonism?
She did because she has followed all the mormon teachings. She has been a primary teacher and went on a mission with my stepfather to Julian, CA. How? Because the church approves of her, that's how.
My poor mother went looking for a church, and found one who agreed with what she already believed, and the rest is history. So many poor, misguided people.
Neither you nor the other members ever talk about how your prophets taught the Catholic Church was an abomination. Have they changed their stance on that too? Or will you say they never taught that either. I heard it every week when I was attending meetings at the church. You can call me a liar over and over again. That will not change what we know.
Solopilot said you will be Gods. You say you will be like God. Which is it? Do different members have such different beliefs? |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 69
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 5:26 am: |
|
GC: I believe that I have, within the constraints of other commitments, attempted to answer your questions / accusations as openly an honestly as possible. It is therefore quite unfair that you write as if I have not (I believe the same goes for replies posted by SP).
Are you sure you want answers?
I want to ensure that you have replies to the above post, but feel it may be an utter waste of time - do your REALLY want to know? - will your false accusations about LDS beliefs change if responses differ form your false views?
You claim so much is hidden from members - yet cannot explain how SP and I, just normal members, know about these "revelations" you come up with.
I don't have access to any great library of LDS history, nor am I a member of some secret society that works to keep the truth of mormonism from being let out - fear of what we do not understand is a powerful thing that needs some self control to be able to harness, please get some.
No GRAND conspiracy, I am of the opnion that those who write against the church could not take part in a conspiracy without convincing themselves that their co-conspirators were conspiring against them! It is you and your kind that rekon WE are conspiring towards some horrible end (one idiot rekons we want to take over the world! - there were rumours that we had built a tunnel from Liverpool, England to steal away families from England and take them to America!) - foolish questions do not become valid simply through their asking, accusations do not become truth through their being made, false interpretations remain just that.
I have meetings to attned over the next couple of days (work) but will get back to you on your above questions if the answers will make any difference.
Are you an honest seeker of the truth? - if so examine the sources of your information, and the reason that those sources exist. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 303
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.233
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 9:17 am: |
|
Exactly the answer I expected. I do not seek the truth; I have it. I am trying to share it with you. No, I am not concerned that mormons will try to "take over the world". It is mormons who have insinuated antimormons conspire and share their information in order to ruin the mormon church. My questions are simple. As for getting self-control, I do not consider myself a power unto myself. Men who desired power and becoming Gods have given satan power over themselves. My faith and trust is in the Lord. He created me. He can do with me what he wills. I am his.
You intimate that by exposing all these revelations that are absurd and obviously thought of by men who are not followers of Christ but of their own wishes, is some powerful force that can cause harm. That is another lie of Satan. The mormon church is not the first to teach ridiculous and blasphemous notions concerning God. It is the decision of each person do make their own conclusion about belief in Christ. Exposing this church only gives tools to people who may be seeking truth. If I have it and you have it, then do not concern yourself with what I post. If you have the truth, nothing I can say could harm your organization. The Lord said, "search out these things". Things done in secret are not of the Lord. God is Light, secret things are darkness..... |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 72
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 11:06 am: |
|
GC: I mean that you are becoming so wrapped up in attamting to PROVE mormonism wrong, that you are allowing your standards to drop and will accept any trivial point of supposed doctrine, and will repeat it - surley this will harm you if not taken control of. You will become bitter and unhappy attempting to do the impossible.
I am sure that the concern shared by SP, and all other LDS that have chosen to post here is that some may be driven away from the truth by lies such as those you repeat - not concern for ourselves or the church. If you know others will read this, surley you have a resonsibilty as a CHRISTIAN not to lie when this may harm others - or do you not care as long as you believe you are saved?
I reread the 6 Missionary discussions throuh last night, the ones I used as a missionary. Time after time there are references to our relationship with God, our desire to become like Him and return to live with Him - all indicating that we believe in eternal progression - I am not sure exactly how YOU think we could be more up front with people investigating the church than by telling them up front. We speak of tithing, temples, baptism for the dead in the discussions - the the things you claim to be dark secrets - you just do not know what you are talking about. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 308
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.63.115
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 6:56 pm: |
|
DO YOU TELL PEOPLE THEY CAN BECOME GOD?
A relationship with God, following his teachings, allowing the Holy Spirit to work through us for God's glory, and going to be with him in eternity is not eternal progression.
And you are very aware of that. I will live eternally, forever and forever, with God. You believe you will keep progressing until you become God. Say it like it is for a change.
And I believe you have looked at my other response stating the mormon beliefs about Adam being God, About Jesus being married to Mary, About God having sex with Mary, about Lucifer being Jesus' brother. Do you tell people these things? It is impossible for you to give a direct answer to a direct question because you are fearful, (not me) that if you even think it in your mind, the truth will make your world come crashing down around you and you don't know if you have the faith to allow God to care for you instead of depending on men. Your faith is not measured by how much work you do. It is God's work through you by the Holy Spirit. I don't just sit on my butt waiting for Jesus to come again, though that is my prayer. I pray every day that God will show me his will in my life and that I am willing to be available to anyone who might need me. With God, the small things you do to glorify him are as important as all the large things. Only man considers such things of value to God. He wants to know your heart, and accepts you for whoever you are; the good, the bad, the ugly.
Were you a sinless man before you learned about God? Are you sinless now? I am not but I do my best and that's all the Lord wants. Jesus Christ was the only innocent, sinless man who ever lived. That is what makes him God. I would never want to replace him with my husband, if I had one. If I were a man, I would not want to replace him with me. Or you or anyone else. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 309
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.63.115
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 01, 2005 - 7:02 pm: |
|
Do you tell them if they follow all the mormon rules they will rule a planet and have many, many, many wives? Do you? Do you tell the women these truths about what you believe lies in their future. (fiction and lies)
What will man's need for God be then? |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 74
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 4:30 am: |
|
gc: 1) WE DO NOT BELIEVE WE CAN BECOME GOD; 2) WE DO NOT BELIEVE THAT ADAM IS GOD OUR ETENAL FATHER, THE CREATOR OF OUR SPIRITS, ELOHIM OF THE OLD TESTAMENT, RATHER WE BELIEVE GOD CREATED ADAM, BREATING LIFE INTO HIS BODY, AND THAT THEY EXIST AS TOTALLY SEPERATE BEINGS; 3) WE DO NOT TEACH THAT GOD WAS MARRIED TO MARY (THIS POINT WAS DELAT WITH ON ANOTHER THREAD, AS YOU WELL KNOW, SEE YOU ARE NOT WILLING TO LEARN OR ALTER WHAT YOU SAY WHEN EVIDENCE IS PUT BEFORE YOU SHOWING THE THINGS YOU TEACH TO BE FALSE) AND AS SAID ON THAT THREAD, YOU WILL FIND THERE ARE MANY INCLUDING MANY YOU WOULD ACCEPT AS CHRISTIAN THAT BELIEVE JESUS WAS MARRIED TO MARY; 4) WE DO NOT BELIEVE GOD HAS SEX WITH MARY, AS DEALT WITH ON ANOTHER THREAD ALSO; 5) WE BELIEVE THAT WE WERE ALL CREATED AS SPIRITS BY OUR HEAVENLY FATHER INCLUDING CHRIST AND SATAN, WHICH MEANS THAT WE ARE ALL BROTHERS AND SISTERS. WE BELIEVE THAT WE CHOSE TO FOLLOW THE PLAN FOR OUR PROGRESSION PUT FORWARD BY CHRIST AND REJECTED THAT PUT FORWARD BY SATAN, THE ENSUING BATTLE IN HEAVEN RESULTED IN SATAN AND ONE THIRD OF THE HOST OF HEAVEN BEING CAST OUT, AND DENIED THE OPPORTUNITY TO HAVE A MORTAL EXISTENCE AS WE ARE EXPERIENCING; 6) WE DO NOT TELL PEOPLE ALL THE THINGS YOU WANT US TO AS WE SIMPLY DO NOT BELIEVE IN MOST OF WHAT YOU SAY WE DO - WHO SHOULD KNOW BEST WHAT I BELIEVE, YOU OR ME?
I FEEL THE ABOVE ARE ALL DIRECT ANSWERS TO YOUR DIRECT QUESTIONS.
APRT FROM THE PERIOD AFTRE BY BAPTIAM I ACNNOT SAY I HAVE BEEN SINLESS, NOR AM I NOW - BUT I WORK HARD TO SIN AS LITTLE AS POSSIBLE - NO ONE CAN REPLACE GOD, OR JESUS CHRIST IN OUR LIVES.
WHY SHOULD WE TELL PEOPLE FICTION AND LIES, WE DON'T!
GOD WILL ALWAYS BE GOD AND IT WILL ALWAYS BE HIS CHARACTERISTICS THAT WE WILL ASPIRE TO, NONE OF US CAN OVERTAKE OR EVEN GET ANYWHERE NEAR MATCHING GOD IN ANY OF HIS ATTRIBUTES. WE WILL ALWAYS NEED HIM AS WE NEED HIM NOW! |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 75
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 5:08 am: |
|
I need to use spellcheck! |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 311
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.63.120
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 9:37 am: |
|
It is wonderful to read that your beliefs follow (portions of) what christians believe. Do you denounce the teachings of your earlier prophets?
Or do you deny they taught them? And lastly, can I quote you? |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 77
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 10:13 am: |
|
GC: Of course I don't denounce the teachings of any true Prophet of God - a bit of a daft question I think. There is a massive difference between a Prophets personal opinion and what they say when influenced by the spirit and speaking in God's name - I see tomorrows press otherwise: "Mormon Prophet denounces cheese & chives Pringles"
They are first of all men, who like us all have individual tastes and preferences (which baseball team they follow), some prefer to keep to simple expressions of doctrine, other enjoy stretching their minds (when I was at school I really enjoyed science subjects and would delve into books because they interested me, and not necessarily relate to the school curriculum, some hated the stuff - Prophets are not different - and don't have to have a dgree to get the calling!) - look at the quotes I used on another thread on this exact point (or are we on to selective amnesia?)
Quote me at will, but I imagine little will arrive in context! |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 315
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.61.34
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 2:37 pm: |
|
Don't worry, I wasn't planning on quoting you, but come to think of it I might. Your last response is even more interesting.
Do you remember the verse in the Bible (Genesis) where it says, AFTER God created man, he breathed his soul into him?
If I were to quote you, I would copy my questions to you as written, and your answers the same.
The reason I asked is some prior mormons (or those who claim to be) disagree with you on these posts. Where did they get a different opinion as yours, do you think? Example: whether man can become God.
I am not using selective amnesia. I have not read all the posts. I don't think I am the only person using repetitive speech.(don't take that as an accusation against you.) I shall go back and do that now.
No one will be bothered by me much longer. I think I have covered most of what I intended to. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 316
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.61.34
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 02, 2005 - 2:43 pm: |
|
On further thought about what you posted last here, I have another question. Sorry! If Brigham Young were here, today, and said in a conference that Adam is (or was) God, or that Lucifer is Jesus' brother, would you consider that prophesy, or just his thoughts he was sharing with everyone at the conference. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 82
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 7:55 am: |
|
GC: I don't understand your reference to my last response and to the verse in Genesis - what's the link?
I am sure the differences will be how we express it, and how you interpret what we say.
Firstly, what role would BY be taking? |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 320
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.5
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 2:04 pm: |
|
It was a simple question(again). Are you saying I assume he was speaking as the Prophet in front of the audience at a conference. I would assume that. I will remind people that your prophets said, "When a prophet speaks, he speaks from God". I ASSUME what is very clear.
If You don't ASSUME the same, how do mormons know what was spoken (as a prophet) or perhaps in jest. There is no confusion there for me. It appears there is for you.
Since you lied on Wednesday, March 2, (We do not believe we can become God)I will not speak to you again. The thread Mormon humor will show from a teachers manual of the lds church, what is being taught. Call me what you like. I haven't lied. You have. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 86
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Thursday, March 03, 2005 - 3:41 pm: |
|
GC: I think, no know you are over reacting to a simple question. You know what ASS U ME does - hence my wanting to discover how your anti-truth mind likes to work (LIEing in wait to decieve!)
If a Prophet stood before me as a Prophet of God and warned me or taught me such and such, then that is the word of God. But remember, eventhe Prophet Moroni urged that we should confirm Gods word with God Himself through prayer - not to simply believe what we are told.
Well there's a cop out if I ever saw one, call me a liar then run away HaHaHaHa - no more than I would expect from the likes of you!
You lie to the back teeeth knowing you do so, then pretend I have because you have run out of anti-LDS lies to post - VERY DISAPPOINTING.
(Message edited by joesdad on March 03, 2005) |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 323
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.57
| | Posted on Friday, March 04, 2005 - 5:45 pm: |
|
Moroni is a fictional figure in mormon books.
The last mormon on this thread is showing his true colors; first saying chineze whisperer should be shot (Hinting that is me), then saying ass u me.
After 20 years as a mormon who claims to be christian, I would think he could tolerate one woman's postings. Why can't he? I'm sure he will answer for any others reading these posts, in his roundabout way.
The minute a christian says they will quote a book published by the mormons for mormons, mormons immediately freak out. Why? |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 98
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 6:54 am: |
|
GC: It is obvious that you read yoour own postings in a different light to others.
I can tolerate your postings, but should I have to tolerate your blatant lies?
Who is freaking out? As long as you write word for word, there is no problem! |
joesdad (joesdad)
Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 99
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 6:57 am: |
|
GC: It is interesting that you feel LDS should abide by higher values than you a "Christian" feel are appropraite for yourself |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 326
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.89
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 2:36 pm: |
|
I had intended to go through the whole book 'Gospel Principles' and write the main points here. That will not be necessary as chapter 13 gives qualifications of the priesthood holders. Imagine my shock when this chapter referred its readers to Chapter 47the last chapter of this book. It's title is Exaltation}. I will share the main portions that prove this so called church is of Satan. Page 301..When we lived with our Heavenly Father, he explained a plan for our progression.
Jesus taught, "In my Father's house are many mansions" (John 14:2). From the scriptures we learn that there are three kingdoms of glory in heaven. The Apostle Paul mentioned that he knew a man who was "caught up to the third heaven" (2 Cor.12:2). Paul named two of the kingdoms in heaven: the celestial and the terrestrial (see 1 Corinthians 15:40-42). The celestial is the highest, and the terrestrial is second. Through latter-day revelation we learn that the third kingdom is the telestial kingdom (see D&C 76:81). We also learn that there are three heavens or degrees within the celestial kingdom (see D&C 131:1)
(This last part was news to me. I was never taught that there are three heavens or degrees within the celestial kingdom) I'm taking a moment to ................
The next page should leave no doubt of the lies by the mormon church and the mormon posters here.) Pg. 312
WHAT IS EXALTATION
Exaltation is eternal life, the kind of life God lives. He lives in great glory. He is perfect. He possesses all knowledge and all wisdom. He is the Father of spirit children. He is a creator. We can become like our Heavenly Father. This is exaltation.
If we prove faithful to the Lord, we will live in the highest degree of the celestial kingdom of heaven. We will become exalted, just like our Heavenly Father. Exaltation is the greatest gift that Heavenly Father can give his children (see D&C) 14:7).}
These are some of the blessings given to exalted people:
1. They will live eternally in the presence of Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ (see D&C 76).
2. THEY WILL BECOME GODS.
3. They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly Father. They will be an eternal family.
4. They will receive a fulness of joy.
5. They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have--all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. President Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: "The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandments.They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them." (Docrtines of Salvation, 2:36)
(I am in a state of horrorfilled trembling after reading this. All I can do is pray "God, please forgive them." Back to the book, on page 305 it gets worse
The Prophet Joseph Smith taught: "When you climb up a ladder, you must begin at the bottom, and ascend step by step, until you arrive at the top; and so it is with the principles of the Gospel--you must begin with the first, and go on until you learn all the principles of exaltation. But it will be a great while after you have passed through the veil (died) before you will have learned them. It is not all to be comprehended in this world; it will be a great work to learn our salvation and exaltation even beyond the grave" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, p 348).
This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith taught: "It is the first principle of the gospel to know for a certainty the character of God...He was once a man like us;...God himself, the Father of us all, dwelt on an earth, the same as Jesus Christ himself did" (Teachings of the Prophet Joseph Smith, pp.345-46).
(Please, I ask any of you who have mormon friends or are investigating this church with the intent of joining, please read all of their books, not just the few you are allowed to see before you are in a mire so deep you will not be able to escape. Please go to the Lord in prayer, "Ask, and it will be given, seek, and ye shall find." |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 102
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 5:02 pm: |
|
GC: I am evenmore surprised than you, were you actually paying ANY attention to what went on for those 26 Years? - you appear ignorant of some of the most basic LDS beliefs, no wonder you share with amazement things that even small children in the church are aware of.
Not able to escape!! - you did, so whats the trick O Great escape Artist One? (sorry for the sarcasm, but you write such tripe!) |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 332
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.62.229
| | Posted on Saturday, March 05, 2005 - 11:20 pm: |
|
When I found out this is what the mormon church taught, I got out.
The church said men could become like God. I did not even believe that then. Apparently the mormons are so arrogant today they will laugh in the face of God. Up until today JOESDAD (which his wife hinted means god) would not admit it, so there is no surprise. You must learn to confess your sins. It is good for the soul, should you decide you do not want to leave it in the hands of satan.
Jesus said God's word would be tripe to satan's followers. I rebuke you in the name of Jesus Christ! And may God have mercy on you and the members of the mormon lie.
I am so thankful to be able to send this book, which I had never seen before, (women aren't allowed, and if Joesdad's wife would be allowed she will see also) as it is a 'mormon priesthood tool', to everyone I can think of, and that is quite a few.
If mormon women read this and see the truth, and still believe the mormon lie, then I hope they will at least think of the souls of their children, who they are responsible for.} |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 107
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 4:09 am: |
|
GC: From your postings, I understand that you felt yourself better than God's Apostles and attempted to "expose" them, claiming once that the church excommunicated you for this, and now that you left because of something you found out - GC you are so unreliable as a witness of any sort that you should be ashamed of yourself. You ove and over show a total ignorance of basic LDS beliefs that even my 7 year old is aware of, hence the reason both SP and I spent so much time questioing whether you were ever a member of the church or just a liar attampting to get people to accepting flasehood after falsehood through the annonymous media of the internet.
GC, please reread you postings, you go from saying you never heard of the doctrine that we can become as Gods, to saying you left the church because of it, then claiming it is hidden away from members of the church - you make yourself look a fool!
Had you ever said a sincere word in the name of Christ I make even reread your rebuke, but knowing you are simply acting as a spiteful child who did not get her own way is doing no more than making you bitter, and poisoning yur own soul.
Priesthood manuals can be orderes from lds.org GC - misfired again, how sad!
Given up on the blacks and now appealing to women, next out pet gerbils? |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 337
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.21
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 12:14 pm: |
|
Martha Nibley Beck, author of new book "Leaving the Saints", appears on Good Morning America this morning to say why she left the mormon church. Her father, Hugh Nibley, was considered 'mormon royalty' by the church.
For more, please read post on "why people hate mormons" 3/7/05. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 338
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.21
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 12:19 pm: |
|
If this has become a 'trash godchild' thread, so be it. The truth is out. It doesn't matter one whit what people think of me. God knows my heart.
I will accept his judgement, with joy and peace. |
bee (bee)
Junior Member
Username: bee
Post Number: 42
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 207.30.1.2
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 12:27 pm: |
|
joesdad,
Greetings in the name of Jesus.
With all due respect the Word instructs us that we are in danger of hell fire for calling another a fool. I am sure that you must not have meant that to godchild.
I spoke with her some time back & she see's fit to speak out to the distortion of the pure gospel. Please do not slam her for this.
I would never call a mormon a fool but I would pray that the eyes of their understanding be opened.
God Bless You. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 341
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.146
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 4:13 pm: |
|
I just went to lds.org. Yes, you can order gospel principles for $3.00, if anyone is interested.
I also looked at what is published on this sight for investigaters. There was not one thing said about becoming a GOD. So much for truth from the lds church. This would be a good opportunity for everyone interested to either post the question why on the lds website, or call a local lds church and ask why they do not tell investigaters, or if they say they do, when? |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 112
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 5:08 pm: |
|
Bee: Not sure where the hell and fire bit came from, but I get yur point.
No I do not intend to name call, but refer to the continual repetition of rediculous lies and unsubstantiated claims - the NT warned us against asking fooling questions as they are only to cause strife. Even though I have been quite honest an up front in answering GC's claims and rebutting accusations, she repeats them over as if some mantra, then calls me a liar because waht I say does not agree with herpredetermined response. Do you believe God sanctions the telling of puposeful untruths because you feel you have been some way unfairly treated?
You speak of distortion, she intentional distorts LDS teachings in an effort to make it look bad, do you condone this type of action?
I know that GC has some valid (to her) points to make but she loses these amongst a barrage of stuff she knows or ought to know from her claim to have been a member of the church, is not true. She would have more credibilty in my eyes were she to stick to a point and either accept an answer of give further evidence to support her point of view - but this seems to happen very rarely. |
bee (bee)
Junior Member
Username: bee
Post Number: 46
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 65.38.240.43
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 6:16 pm: |
|
Joesdad,
You wrote she intentional distorts LDS teachings in an effort to make it look bad, do you condone this type of action?
How does she do this?
You also asked if I believe it is ok with God to tell purposeful untruths.
No. And once again how has she done this?
Thanks. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 115
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 3:57 am: |
|
Bee: Maybe not as simple as distortion of LDS techings, but that mixed with dishonest representation of information.
I have been homest with her, informing her that the LDS church does not teach that we can take God's place in any way shape or form. Yet she insists on repeating this falsehood. Do you approve of this?, i.e. once she has been informed of the correct position the church has on a topic, do you feel it right she continues to repeat it?. OK, if at first she DID think that was the church's teching (though extremely doubtful in light of her claim to membership for 26 years!) - once corrected, the repetition then becomes lies does it not?
She states we believe God had physical sex with Mary to conceive Jesus, this is blasphemous, and yes I mean against God! - through her claimed membership of the church she would know this accusation to be a sensationlist LIE - so why does she repeat what, if she is what she says she is, are lies? (of course this is a rhetorical question).
I am not making up things about GC, she is making up things to attack my church, and ultimately me!
One of her tactics is to insinuate, or even state that her membership of the church can be relied on to back up her accusations, yet if I remember correctly, she has both stated that she left the church and was excommunicated - any REAL member of the church knows that there is a wide gulf between the two. Hence both my and SP's questioning that she has ever been a member of the church. Little of what she says convinces ME that she has ever had any more than close contact with members, and mixes this with anti-LDS material produced by others. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 343
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.125
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 2:46 pm: |
|
Show them what 'gulf' there is between leaving the church (mormon) and being excommunicated?
IF ANY MAN OR WOMAN WANTS TO BE A GOD OR GODDESS, JOIN THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER DAY SAINTS.
This is the way our Heavenly Father became God. Joseph Smith (first socalled prophet of restored (mormon) church: "IT IS THE FIRST PRINCIPLE OF THE GOSPEL TO KNOW FOR A CERTAINTY THE CHARACTER OF GOD...HE WAS ONCE A MAN LIKE US;...GOD HIMSELF, THE FATHER OF US ALL, DWELT ON AN EARTH, THE SAME AS JESUS CHRIST HIMSELF DID."
Gospel Principles (mormon book)pg. 305, published by the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. (recommended by mormons posting on Factnet.) |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 348
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.125
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 3:27 pm: |
|
Just so there will be no further confusion, read further: (next paragraph, same book)Our Heavenly Father knows our trials, our weaknesses, and our sins. He has compassion and mercy on us. He wants us to succeed even as he did.
Page 302, same book
What is exaltation
2. They will become gods.
3. They will have their righteous family members with them and will be able to have spirit children also. These spirit children will have the same relationship to them as we do to our Heavenly father, They will be an eternal family.
5. President (prophet) Joseph Fielding Smith wrote: "They will have everything that our Heavenly Father and Jesus Christ have--all power, glory, dominion, and knowledge. Pres. JFS wrote: "The Father has promised through the Son that all that he has shall be given to those who are obedient to his commandment. They shall increase in knowledge, wisdom, and power, going from grace to grace, until the fulness of the perfect day shall burst upon them." (Doctrines of Salvation, 2:36) |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 120
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 4:06 pm: |
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GC: As you are the one that makes the claims - leaving -v- excommunication - you tell us the difference and reveal what you REALLY know. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 351
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.63.22
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 5:32 pm: |
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I have told about my life as a mormon. I am tired of repeating it. This is not about me, but about the mormon church. I know Joesdad thinks by accusing me of all sorts of things, he can detract other reader's from proofs about the teachings, doctrines, ordinances, and principles of the mormon church. If only one person sees the truth or many, I leave that in God's hands.
Before I purchased a mormon book, Gospel Principles, published by the mormon church which states: Gospel Principles was written both as a person study guide and as a teacher's manual. Therefore, you can use this manual in many ways, Joesdad denied all the accusations against his church. See his post dated Wednesday, March 2, at 4:30 a.m.
Since I started quoting from 'Gospel Principles' he has not admitted to his lies. Instead, he has tried to take the attention away from the object of the posts, Cults, and placed it on me with personal attacks. A tactic that may work or not. But I will continue to enlighten readers. I see there is more work to be done. |
franklin (franklin)
Intermediate Member
Username: franklin
Post Number: 380
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 205.188.116.9
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 8:10 pm: |
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joesdad is a deceiver! |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 354
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.53.168
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 8:34 pm: |
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Franklin, If you haven't yet, go to carm.org/. It is a christian apologetic website. Shows numerous cults. Especially, the mormon one where Matt has a discussion with Mormon Missionary. You will see almost exactly the same questions mormons use here to detract or distract from questions about their beliefs. Example I really like is: Mormons teach there is a heavenly mother, who they don't talk about much, but whom they call a goddess. Doesn't that make four gods? So why isn't she included in the Godhead. After all, mormons believe they couldn't have been spirits in the spirit world, (preexistance), without her. It is a great site. If you try to have discussions with mormons, you can learn the responses they are taught, because they use the same ones in speaking to believers.
Something else Matt suggested is this:
Since mormons call themselves christian but do not agree with christian doctrines, we can be mormons and not agree with mormon doctrines.
Let them chew on that for awhile. Joesdad warned AGAINST going to this site, you can see why. He is sure fearful for a socalled christian. Thank God we have Jesus Christ and his spirit in us. We need not fear. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 125
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 4:38 am: |
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GC: OF COURSE THIS IS ABOUT YOU, AS YOUR CLAIMS TO HAVING BEEN A MEMBER OF THE CHURCH IS THE ONLY THING THAT MIGHT GIVE YOUR CLAIMS ANY CREDIBILITY. FOR ONCE ANSWER MY QUESTION, WHAT IS THE DIFFERNECE BETWEEN LEAVING THE CHURCH AND EXCOMMUNICATION? - WITH DETAIL OF WHICHEVER PROCESS YOU FOLLOWED.
I HAVE ANSWERED YOU MY ANSWERS STAND.
WHERE WAS THIS WARNING EXACTLY?
FRANKLIN: WHAT A THROW AWAY COMMENT! |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 358
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.62.94
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 11:53 am: |
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My leaving the church only has to do with me personally. I have explained it over and over. even my parakeet understands my words to him. WHERE IS YOUR BRAIN? I am posting word for word what your church and socalled prophets call principles. If you disagree with what is written, good. Now you can go to THEM and demand answers as you do me. After all, you call me a liar. Why would you waste your time responding to anything a 'liar' quotes? You continue to ignore the truth. That is your choice. You defend mormonism. I defend Christianity. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 129
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 12:26 pm: |
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GC: It's too late to claim that, you've posted all over these pages about your leaving/being excommunicated form the Church!
My brian is trying to understand why you cannot explain the difference between the two, and why you have claimed to have have left the church through both methods - the only sensible answer is that you are in some way lying. Come on, be honest, did you leave or were you excommunicated?
I love the way you react aggresively when cornered, such an appealing trait!
You do not defend Christianity, as large chunks of it does not believe what you believe, you attack mormonism because your experience with the church was a bad one. Well, most of us have bad experiences with things, get up dust ourselves off and get on with life - I suggest you do the same! |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 363
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.61.41
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 2:14 pm: |
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I will say it one last time. I decided to leave the church. I asked for a meeting with the branch pres. I went into his office at our branch. There were two men with him. I sat down and told them I wanted to be excommunicated (out of the church, no longer a member) from the church. The pres. asked me why. I told them because I do not believe they can become gods. They didn't argue with me. I didn't argue with them.
I waited for a document (an excommunication document), evidence, proof, that I was no longer a member. I didn't recieve one. I did not want to be on their membership rolls or be associated with the church any longer. So, I published a very simple artice in our town paper, stating, 'I __________________am no longer a member of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter day Saints. Not long after, I recieved a paper stating that I was excommunicated. Period, end of story. Got it? Do I need to repeat it?
Why is it so difficult for you. I know you want some false confession that I did something really terrible, was exposed by the church, and was excommunicated. Sorry, that's just not what happened. Get over it. Deal with it. Ask your leaders how they dealt with people in the 80's, who asked to be excommunicated. I'm sure they will tell you. The only scandal, in my mormon family's minds, was that I went to all the trouble of 'telling everyone' (our local newspaper) that I did not want to be a member of that church any longer and wanted documentation to show that I no longer was. My father-in-law (God bless him) told my husband that I had given my soul to satan. I asked my husband if that was what he thought. He said no. Everything was fine. MORE than fine. I now live a true Christian life the best way I can, and one of those ways is to warn people about YOUR church, in order for them to choose the true God, the God I pray to and worship, who I honor and defend, who I love; not the man made god you worship. Explanation enough? Try to get some rest. I think you have overexerted yourself for no good reason. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 364
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.61.41
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 09, 2005 - 2:23 pm: |
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Whether or not other churches do not follow the Holy Bible is their problem, not mine. I am a christian because I follow the teachings of Jesus Christ, I love him, I worship him, I pray to him, I study his WORD, the HOLY BIBLE, I ask for forgiveness of my sins, and seek his will in my life. I also speak to those who are interested in Christ and God the Father, and the Holy Ghost. And I try to warn those who are following false prophets, who are obviously led by satan and believe his lies. I am not a member of any 'organized religion' (organization started by men or women) but I occasionally attend different churches to try and find fellowship with other believers of the HOLY BIBLE........Some do, some don't. They are not my concern although I pray for everyone to have the FREE gift God has given me, and that is available to them too. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 137
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 8:51 am: |
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There are some things that I have noticed in the short while I have been posting to these threads.
1) What I assume was meant to be a forum for the serious discussion and debate of groups or “cults”, and for those who have had experiences of those groups, has become a bit of a free for all, with anyone being able to accuse any group of being a cult, with no reference whatsoever to FACTNETS own “definition” of a cult. These threads are often started with spurious comments, and descend very quickly into abusive slanging matches.
I am surprised that, as the sites founders indicate it is concerned at the level of different types of abuse that takes place within such groups, those who claim to have suffered cause suffering to others by their often ill thought out comments, and accusations with no basis or structure.
2) On these particular threads (LDS – Mormon ones) that there are several voices that are heard often, some very frequently. Those heard most frequently speaking against the LDS church have very similar ways of communicating, viz. They will 1) Make offensive attacks either directly at others or at the church; 2) Make unsubstantiated claims against the church or members of it; 3) Misquote what they consider to be authoritative texts, and use documents never accepted by the church as defining it’s beliefs; 4) Knowingly make statements about the church’s beliefs that either do not correctly represent the actual beliefs of members, or are total falsehoods made knowing that they are falsehoods (lies basically), 5) Assume that as they are posting on a thread that they consider being their chance to abuse the church and it’s members, and pat each other on the back for doing so, that when any accusation they make is properly and substantially refuted or replied to, they can simply ignore that fact and continue to repeat their accusations; 6) When they are asked direct questions regarding knowledge that they claim to have, they do not answer or become abusive.
3) Franklin, has a bit of a supporting role for the great I am (self appointed), and defender of Chritianity (all sects of it that agree with anything she might say irrespective of whether they actually believe in the same thing), he pops in – fires questions or abuse, then runs away – any direct questions directed at him are ignored, probably as he has no idea of either what he is supposed to believe according to whatever belief system he subscribes to, or he simply has no idea what he is talking about – cheap shots are his speciality.
4) Godchild, the great I am referred to above, is a real character. She has many sides to her. The sweet innocent victim of the evil Mormon Sect, to the abusive Grizzly Bear who bears her teeth and swipes her well sharpened claws at any that might suggest she doesn’t know what the heck she is talking about.
Her story is interesting, having claimed to have been a member of the church for anywhere up to 26 years, she shows amazing lack of knowledge of what the church believes in or teaches. Reading her story leads one to the conclusion that either 1) she has a learning disorder that does not allow her to understand plain and simple things said to her, and distorts them in her mind so they are stored in an unrecognisable form; 2) If she was ever associated with the church, insofar as being a member, it was for a very short time and she is dishonestly representing herself as an experienced member of the church; 3) she suffers from a selective sleeping disorder that meant she was wide awake during her time in the church except for when attending church meetings, when she slept so soundly that she was unaware of where she was or what was being said to her ( this is in my opinion believable considering some of the sacrament talks I have listened to); 4) She was unhappy as a member of the church, we don’t really know why but it is possible she simply found it too restrictive for her, and rather than simply leaving and getting on with her life, she thought she would leave and attempt to “show it up”, or it’s leaders at least, as she left. She must have known the reaction that this would create, but proceeded anyway. When the church asked her not to do this, she ignored it and now expresses indignation at the churches responses (that was pretty dumb!). Hence my reference to her acting as a woman scorned; or maybe 5) She is just someone who claims Christian virtues, shows few of the and is a compulsive liar. She has convinced herself that she has the right to lie, and get away with it.
5) I do not think it correct that I refer to GC as being a liar without substantiating what I say. Her claim to membership of the church raises just about all of the concerns I have on this point. I have asked a few members of the church (not telling them why I ask) if they see a difference to someone being excommunicated from the church as GC first claimed she was, and someone leaving the church of their own accord. Each said that there is a big difference, however GC having declared to all the world that she had taken both paths, when asked directly to explain the difference (as anyone involved in the church should be able to do without question) she whines and tells me to mind my own business!. I am convinced the reason for this reaction is that she simply does not know – she has lied at some point, and is unable to back track – to cover her “cock-up” she simply tries to hide it under lots of abuse and repeated accusations. Likewise, anyone involved with the church would know we do not believe God and Mary had actual physical sex – yet GC claims she was taught this – this is obviously a lie. Her claims about our becoming God, is all taken from an anti-LDS distortion of the truth – not her experience in the church – like much of what she says. Even when she does ATTEMPT so substantiate what she says with quotes, they are so out of order and confused, with no comment from her as to what she feels they say to support her claims, they become no more than a breach of copyright.
GC is manipulating those who read these threads by claiming to have been a member of the church, as those wanting to believe the falsehoods they have previously heard about the church, will feel further justified if these lies are backed up by an “ex-Mormon”. I know that this is how Satan works, but is also one of the methods of indoctrination used by the sects this site was created to expose. If you believe her, you are simply falling into her trap, when you seek to deceive what a wicked web you weave – that is GC to a T.
6) There are many web sites that exist simply because the creators of them left or were removed from the church in circumstances that they caused, but choose to accuse the church rather than accept responsibility for their own actions. They collectively are as much threat to the church as a gnat biting an elephants bum.
Just thought I’d mention it |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 139
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 9:05 am: |
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GC: First it was your expose of LDS leaders - now it's your false idea of us taking Gods place that made you leave / be exed - still not made your mind up of the truth - trotting along in your own little world aren't you? |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 385
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.93
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:08 pm: |
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Even after the many times christians have quoted from the 'Book of mormon', which states that "the father, and the son, and the Holy Ghost are one" 3 Nephi 11:27
"And thus the Father bear record of me, and the Holy Ghost will bear record unto him of the Father and me; for the Father, and I, and the Holy Ghost are one." 3 Nephi 11:36
mormons still insist that they can become a god, and why is that? Because they know, if they admit Joseph Smith lied when he stuck his head in the hat, or said he found gold plates, or saw God and Christ face to face ( which the bible says no man has), they have to admit the whole mormon system is based on lies. They insist on believing the words of a man, and not even their own scripture, let alone the kjv of the Bible.
And then Joesdad, mormon apologist, states that just because a prophet says something to the believers in conference, they need not take it as fact, because even though he is speaking as their prophet, he may only be giving them his personal opinion.
I suggest anyone who wants to even try to figure out what the apologiser is suggesting, take his written words to any English teacher and ask him/her to interpret what the mormons on these posts have stated.
|
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 386
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.93
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:21 pm: |
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And I should have added to my last post, the socalled second prophet Brigham Young said, "If a prophet has spoken, it is from God."
And that is only about the spoken words. That does not even address the written words by mormons socalled prophets. Mormons here also excuse their writings, which some mormons consider scripture (and why shouldn't they?), as sometimes only being their personal thoughts, and not to be considered scripture, (or from God).
Does anyone wonder why it took me so many years as a mormon who read the Book of Mormon, which states over and over that God, Christ, and the Holy Ghost are One, and read the kjv of the Bible which says God, Christ and the Holy Ghost are one; to see when all the prophetic utterances made by mormon prophets, caused confusion until it all fit together in a package, labeled Satan's work.
When a mormon prophet dies, another member is appointed by the church to be the next prophet (of course they say they are chosen of God) and every new prophet has the power to change what the last one said was from God. The mormons even deny this, but Joseph Smith and Brigham Young taught (as prophets) that polygamy and blacks being unable to hold the priesthood would stand forever. The newer prophets change their doctrines so often, I doubt my mother who has been a member for approx. 47 years could sit and talk to these new mormons and have a less than confusing conversation about their church. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 387
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.93
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:28 pm: |
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Is it any wonder that non mormons who post on these threads have been told by mormons certain things from one area of the country and are called liars for repeating what they were told, because the posters here live somewhere else? I don't think there is one mormon who can tell you just what their church truly believes, that would be in agreement with another mormon.
All you have to do is reread what mormons here have said to their mormon bros/sisters when they didn't agree with them.
It only reminds me to thank God again for opening my eyes to the TRUTH. |
godchild (godchild)
Intermediate Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 388
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.54.93
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 3:32 pm: |
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The Holy Bible tells us "God is not a god of confusion."
So perhaps a mormon would like to explain why Salt Lake City, (which has the highest population of mormons in the world) has the highest rate of young people committing suicide in the United States? |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 146
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.252.64.33
| | Posted on Friday, March 11, 2005 - 6:10 pm: |
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GC: Sorry luv, you run yourself in circles and then wonder why you are lost. |
suday (suday)
New member
Username: suday
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 15.235.153.98
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 5:43 pm: |
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Not everyone in Utah is mormon and if they did commit suicide then that means that they are human. |
suday (suday)
New member
Username: suday
Post Number: 11
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 15.235.153.98
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 5:57 pm: |
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Utah ranks 8th highest in the nation for the number of age-adjusted suicides. For many years, suicide rates have been significantly higher for the Western States than for the rest of the country. By order of rank, the top ten states are New Mexico, Montana, Nevada, Colorado, Wyoming, Idaho, Alaska, Utah, West Virginia and Oklahoma. Several studies have positively linked suicide with certain demographic, social and environmental factors[3], but none of these factors correlate significantly with the data from the Western States. The cause of this phenomenon remains to be discovered. |
godchild (godchild)
Advanced Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 563
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.153
| | Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 11:39 am: |
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Suday, first your answer is that 'they are only human'. Then you say the cause of this 'phenomenon' remains to be discovered.
I did not say 'age-adjusted suicide. I said young people. Let me go back and get the exact 'quote' for you. In the meantime, are you denying that there are problems in your church, or do you consider it above reproach by nature of it's origination; Joseph Smith's word? |
godchild (godchild)
Advanced Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 564
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.153
| | Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 11:43 am: |
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I also said Salt Lake City, not Utah. What percent of the population in Salt Lake City is mormon? Do you have a copy of "Gospel Principles", and have you read it? |
godchild (godchild)
Advanced Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 567
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.153
| | Posted on Sunday, April 03, 2005 - 2:23 pm: |
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I have been searching for the link I found that information. I have not been able to. It was a newspaper report, from Salt Lake City, not from a denomination. You will have to take my word for that fact that the Surgeon Generals office of Utah issued an alarm about it and said it needed a great deal of investigation. I posted this a while back so the exact reference is somewhere on these sites.
While searching the web, I found some other alarming information about the concern that 'temple rituals' have caused a great deal of distress in young people, so much so that the church took out at least four of the rituals. I am sure you have heard that Joseph Smith used freemason rituals in the mormon temple. If you want to go into that, it is up to you, but you need to be prepared. I do not enjoy exposing such atrocities, but only wish to show mormons and others this church is a cult, and the more I find about the history of your church, and testimony from other people involved directly with it, the more my belief about mormonism is confirmed. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 219
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 8:57 am: |
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I'm sure the link was with that one you have failed to provide to me - lots of talking in the wind GC!!
I am still amazed at how little information about the Church you actually took in during your claimed membership of 26 years - why are so many things a surprise to you, surely they should be within your knowledge???
Please give ONE instance where one LDS posting on this site has contracdicted or substantially diagreed with what another has said on a point of doctrine. |
godchild (godchild)
Advanced Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 572
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.181
| | Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 10:56 am: |
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Read the postings from cccarah who claimed to be mormon, and Solopilot's replies to her.
You, on the other hand, have taken a different approach to mormon apologetics. You deny what I have posted, and yet when confronted with posts that I quoted from your own church manual and other documents, answer by saying I should have known these things if I really was a past member.
What mormons can't accept is that by admitting the doctrine of becoming gods, you are practicing idolatry, which is absolutely against the teachings of the Lord. You worship man and God. Your book of mormon teaches one God, your prophets teach many gods. Your church is a study in contradictions.
You have been given the opportunity to refute what has been directly quoted from your own study manuals, but instead your only response is gc should have known these things if she was a member. We were not given the direct evidence when I was a member. You need to remember, women are excluded from many of the classes men take. Whether that has changed I don't know. If you deny this you are the liar once more. Women are not allowed in priesthood meetings. Women in the mormon church are taught that only men have the authority, (priesthood). Your church has created the monster you cannot now rid yourself of.
Stating falsehoods of your doctrines are not rantings. You are the one ranting, 'why doesn't anyone listen to joesdad', and saying, liar, liar, all you who speak against my church are liars, especially gc. (After all, he declares himself a high priest, when the Bible clearly states Christ is our High Priest.)
God is no respector of persons. If you haven't read that in the Bible, you do not read the same Bible christians do. Your bible is tainted by ordinary men who wish above all else to be a god, or God. Either way, it is idolatry, and you can deny that until the judgment, that is your choice. |
godchild (godchild)
Advanced Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 573
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.52.181
| | Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 11:00 am: |
|
Read the postings from cccarah who claimed to be mormon, and Solopilot's replies to her.
You, on the other hand, have taken a different approach to mormon apologetics. You deny what I have posted, and yet when confronted with posts that I quoted from your own church manual and other documents, answer by saying I should have known these things if I really was a past member.
What mormons can't accept is that by admitting the doctrine of becoming gods, you are practicing idolatry, which is absolutely against the teachings of the Lord. You worship man and God. Your book of mormon teaches one God, your prophets teach many gods. Your church is a study in contradictions.
You have been given the opportunity to refute what has been directly quoted from your own study manuals, but instead your only response is gc should have known these things if she was a member. We were not given the direct evidence when I was a member. You need to remember, women are excluded from many of the classes men take. Whether that has changed I don't know. If you deny this you are the liar once more. Women are not allowed in priesthood meetings. Women in the mormon church are taught that only men have the authority, (priesthood). Your church has created the monster you cannot now rid yourself of.
Stating falsehoods of your doctrines are not rantings. You are the one ranting, 'why doesn't anyone listen to joesdad', and saying, liar, liar, all you who speak against my church are liars, especially gc. (After all, he declares himself a high priest, when the Bible clearly states Christ is our High Priest.)
God is no respector of persons. If you haven't read that in the Bible, you do not read the same Bible christians do. Your bible is tainted by ordinary men who wish above all else to be a god, or God. Either way, it is idolatry, and you can deny that until the judgment, that is your choice. |
joesdad (joesdad)
Intermediate Member
Username: joesdad
Post Number: 221
Registered: 2-2005
Posted From: 62.253.215.25
| | Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 12:27 pm: |
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GC Where do I deny what you have posted?
Then you go on with the oft stated accusations about not knowing because blah blah blah.
You really need to calm down and read the posts, I never claimed to be a High Priest or anything of the sort, I was making a point that a popular TV programme is said to have a CULT following, one which has a character called Joey to whom Iwas referring - it is not MY problem you fail to understand what you read then go of on a tangeant and making no sense.
You take no time to think about what others say to you, but presume that these things MUST be attacked, again this makes you look foolish. |
godchild (godchild)
Advanced Member
Username: godchild
Post Number: 579
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 64.28.51.90
| | Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 1:05 pm: |
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