| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
I want to start a second thread about the 2X2s since many people know the group as "the truth". Group meets in homes. Ministers live with the members or the friends/professing people. Annual revivals called conventions held on farms. Gospel meetings held in public rented facilities. Workers (ministers) are also called "Servants of God" or "God's true Servants". In order to be saved, you must profess (stand up in a gospel meeting when a worker gives out a hymn and asks for some to stand up and make their choice known) through one of the workers. Group often denies or downplays fact that William Irvine founded Truth in Ireland in 1897 and George Walker, Jack Carroll, Irvine Weir and others brought "the Truth" to North America in 1903. Group is secretive about finances (no earthly headquarters and evil collection plate as they see it). Religious literature is often frowned upon. Nobody displays bumper stickers with bible verses on cars or wears religious clothing. Women have long hair on their head in the shape of a "bun", wear no makeup or jewelry. Women wear dresses. Group has no accountability. Head worker's decisions or final and friends dare not question their decisions. Group dislikes other churches calling them "false churches" and people not a part of their group such names as outsider, heathen, worldly person, etc.. Friends stress that the truth isn't a religion but a "way of life". While they live in neighborhoods and work in public jobs, the group usually associates with professing people. Professing people feel they have the "perfect way" and that other churches are of Satan. When a professing person or worker errs, friends say "the way is perfect but the people aren't perfect". Secrets are often kept from outsiders, babes and professing people that the workers don't want to know certain secrets. Group often uses cliches and symbolism in nature rather than discussing religious dogma. Friends aren't sure if they are saved but feel they must work their way into heaven by getting to every meeting possible and doing what the workers preach in meeting. | ||
| Anonymous |
Well known workers (homeless ministers in the truth) today: British Isles: Dennis Fenton, Tommy Gamble, Frank Simpson, Tommy Gamble, Bertie Anderson, Horace Toddhunter, Joan Waterman, Helen Phimister and Wilson Green. Australia: Ray Corbett, Ray Cruickshank, John Robinson, Graeme Taylor, Brian Doecke New Zealand:Nathan McCarthy Mexico: Alan Anderson South America: Duane Hopkins, Leroy Lerwick, Colin McKay, Leslie Doecke, Donald Davidson USA:Charles Steffen, Sam McCracken, Taylor Wood, Ray Hoffman, Robert Flippo, George Lee, Gilbert Reese, Kenneth Lerwick, Barry Barkley, Jim Holt, Ira Hobbs, Joe Hobbs, Leslie White, Gilbert Richter, Dean Bruer, Mark Huddle, Harold Bennett, Eldon Tenniswood, Dick Middleton, Ed Alexander, Jim Price, George Peterson, Irving Ross, Jerome Frandle, Dennis Kinnan, Glenn Gasser, Clinton Goff, Jeff Thayer, Ron Thomke, and Albert Knaggs. Canada: Willis Propp, Paul Sharp, Walter Burkinshaw, Alton Mose, Carson Wallace, Wayne Hutchinson, Leslie Beddoe, William Bryant, George Gittins, Gordon Hazlewood, Melvin Toole, and Richard Knight. For info about the workers (preachers in the truth) see this site:http://www/angelfire.com/ri/Workers | ||
| Anonymous |
Some wonder if the friends in the truth way are under mind control or victims of brainwashing. I personally don't think so. Yes members are taught in meetings that other churches cannot be saved because of their form of meetings and style of ministry. Meetings must be in a worker ordained home and ministers must follow the Matthew 10 form of homeless servants/disciples. Workers do stress getting to every meeting possible. And in meetings certain cliches are rehashed over and over to reinforce that the friends are "God's true people" and that outsiders are lost until they profess in a worker led meeting. Yet friends live amongst "outsiders" and work in public jobs with worldly people (others outside the group). Some information control has occured in the past when workers were opposed to TV/radio/worldly music and a few wouldn't even read a paper. And marriage to unprofessing people has been punished with the professing party unable to speak, pray or take the bread and wine in Sunday morning meetings. Friends do get plenty of the "stay in the perfect way and hold up the standard" in the annual 4 day conventions held on farms. 85 plus in USA and over 500 worldwide! Many members suffer guilt when going against the advice of a worker. Fear, guilt, shame and other tactics do occur. Many feel under pressure to get to all of the meetings, profess and conform to the group. But compared to many sects, mind control is probably less than most. | ||
| Anonymous |
Website about the workers (ministers in a church called THE TRUTH): http://www.angelfire.com/ri/Workers A very interesting type of preacher! Seen as a step closer to God and the only ministers that one can be saved through! | ||
| Anonymous |
Here is a message board about "The Truth" of the workers and friends: http://members3.boardhost.com/Professing | ||
| Anonymous |
PLEASE EVERYONE, CHECK OUT DARWIN FISH, HES A CULT LEADER, PLEASE GO JUST FOR AWHILE AND READ HIS MESSAGE EITHER ON HIS WEBSITE DARWIN FISH, A TRUE CHURCH, GODS FAMILY CHURCH. PRAY PLEASE FOR FAMILIES VICTIMS WHO HAVE LOST FAMILY MEMBERS TO THIS JIM JONES TYPE CULT. PLEASE, JUST WRITE A LITTLE NOTE TO FAMILIES ON THAT ARCHIEVE BOARD THAT YOU ARE PRAYING FOR SONS TO COME HOME, NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION WE ARE, WE WANT OUR CHILDREN SAFE. PLEASE GO NOW INTO DARWIN FISH ARCHIEVE, GODS FAMILY CHURCH OR TRUE CHURCH....SEND HOPE AND GOOD WISHES FOR A NEW YEAR TO FAMILY WAITNG ON LOVED ONES TO COME HOME.. | ||
| Anonymous |
Secrecy is a big concern of ex-professing people. Secrets that the head workers (top clergy) keeps from lesser workers, elders and rank and file professing folks. Secret worker meetings take place and the friends aren't allowed to attend. Money given to the workers by the friends (often in envelopes in the worker's bedrooms in each professing home) isn't recorded. There is no church council to go to if you have been wronged by the workers and questioning/disobeying the workers can lead to punishment including being deemed unworthy to speak or pray in meeting. For many years, workers kept secret the role of William Irvine and other early workers in founding the truth in the late 1890s saying JESUS founded the truth in the bible which the workers and friends of the past have preserved until our day. Doug Parker wrote a book about the truth called "Secret Sect". Many workers suffer nerve problems and other disorders relating to the secrecy of the truth. Workers and friends have no consistent doctrine, name and headquarters claiming Jesus took neither. The "truth" workers try to avoid media scrutiny. Again many say "the people aren't perfect but the way is perfect". Funny how little people know about "The Truth" yet it is one of the largest sects (probably third to JWs and Mormons) that are listed as cults! Yet I bet you have never been to a convention at one of these locations: http://www.angelfire.com/punk/meetings Workers don't like outsiders (anyone not a part of their group) attending Sunday morning meetings preferring the outsider to "attend gospel meetings" which are designed to teach outsiders about "meetings in the home and the ministry without a home". Friends are often secretive about their religion in front of outsiders. They may sit apart from worldly people at lunch. Friends talk more about which worker is in which field and outsiders attending meetings than scripture or religion. Some professing people won't discuss religion apart from inviting the unprofessing person to gospel meetings held in public rented town halls like libraries or civic centers. While workers change fields about every year or two, some professing people and workers know about such changes sooner than others in the truth. Thus because of the institutionalized secrecy, former members are indoctrinated not to discuss their experiences with "worldly sources" like this board. The secrecy and lack of media exposure has allowed the group to remain alive. And thus few people not born into the "truth" know about the group. Some people equate the secrecy with humility since none of the members are seeking publicity. I think Matthew 6 is the scripture justifying the secrecy of "the Truth" way. Also professing people use terminology, cliches and lingo around each other that they don't use around worldly people/outsiders/unprofessing people (anyone not a member of the sect). And they might tell an unprofessing people that they could be saved without hearing truth and professing through a worker TO THEIR FACE and laugh about it behind their backs believing in their heart that unless you profess through a worker, you will go to hell when you die. | ||
| Anonymous |
Friends and workers often scorn "false churches" or "worldly churches" because they meet in huge buildings or pass around a collection plate instead of meeting in a home and giving money to workers in secret. How about 4 day a year conventions? These convention buildings-sleeping quarters, kitchen and meeting buildings are often constructed for the sole purpose of holding these annual revivals on farms. http://www.angelfire.com/punk/meetings In other words, 4 day meetings should be "made with hands" yet Sunday morning and Wednesday night meetings should be held in homes . And gospel meetings meant to draw outsiders into the way are held in rented buildings. Money is spent renting the Lions Club or other town building. The handling of money is a big part of "truth".And trying to handle money in a different way than the "religious world". Secretive. Workers don't involve most of the friends in money issues! | ||
| Anonymous |
http://www.100free.com/tlt/home/index.htm | ||
| Anonymous |
Want to attend a convention? See this list for dates: http://www.angelfire.com/punk/meetings | ||
| Anonymous |
When a worker or friend says something in meeting or in a conversation that you don't understand, check this website. This website explains the lingo used by professing people in the truth. http://www.angelfire.com/ri/Professingterms | ||
| Anonymous |
Hi. I am searching around for some meaning in my life? I believe I have a soul but i'm not sure and don't want to fall for crap. Any ideas? What is this all about? Is it dangerous? What does 2X2 mean anyhow? | ||
| Anonymous |
2X2 describes how the workers/ministers in the "truth" sect preach-two male companions spend the year with each other in a field and two female workers spend a year or two with each other in a territory of land called a "field". Based on Matthew 10. The workers have the highest status in the truth way claiming to have the same power/authority as the original disciples, Paul, Old Testament priest and prophets etc. Workers or preachers assign the friends a home to attend Sunday morning fellowship meetings and Wednesday night meetings in the US. This secretive church is almost invisible except for conventions constructed for annual meetings and NO religious literature or signage can be found in "the truth". Friends or professing people think this quiet and secretive sect traces back to Jesus in the bible though letters prove that many homeless workers left Ireland for the English speaking world around 1900 including George Walker, Eddie Cooney, John Long, William Irvine, Jack Carroll, Bill Carroll, John Hardie, Nichol Jardine, Jim Jardine, Tom Turner, Alex Givans,Wilson Reid, hymn writer Sam Jones and Adam Hutchinson. Anyone wanting to know more about this invisible yet structured church can go to http://truth.jesussave.us | ||
| Anonymous |
Getting to each and every meeting is stronly encouraged by the workers. The mindset of the friends and workers are often formed as children sitting in conventions or gospel meetings listening to the workers preach or the friends "give their testimony". Here are some beliefs that I internalized as a young child sitting in fellowship meetings/gospel meetings/special meetings/ conventions or Wednesday night bible studies: 1. Truth is the only right way and the only church founded by Jesus in existence anywhere in the world. 2. worldly churches and worldly preachers were products of Satan. 3. Workers were the true "servants of God" because they didn't maintain a home, didn't ask for a collection plate, didn't take a name for their church, ordained churches in homes and stressed a high standard of righteousness. 4. Professing homes shouldn't have stereos or televisions. 5. Professing women who were possessing should wear dresses, no makeup/jewelry, and wear their hair upon their head in the shape of a bun. 6. Never question what a worker preaches in meeting since God is actually telling them what to preach. 7. All activities except getting to the meetings ceases on Sunday. 8. Professing children were to be different at school and not participate in anything that the workers felt would be classified as "worldly". 9. Getting to every meeting possible was strongly encouraged. 10. Helping out with convention projects at preps was strongly encouraged. 11. Quietness is required a few minutes before a meeting begins and all activities on Saturday evening should cease other than reading and praying. 12. Daily reading and praying was encouraged. 13. Marrying outsiders or divorced people was discouraged and workers might tell you to stop taking part making you hellbound should you die. 14. Obey the workers 100% and never question their words or actions. 15. Professing people should be different from the religious world and should be separate with limited contact with unprofessing people. | ||
| Anonymous |
Workers in the past have restricted the amount of information that the friends could access banning radios in Eastern US and televisions worldwide though in recent years there has been some lessening of the rules. Irish head worker Tommy Gamble and worker Bertie Anderson will not allow a meeting in a home with a television and even kick people out of the truth for owning a TV. The workers would love to see the friends cut most of their ties with unprofessing people except on the job and while on the job, be quiet and different from the worldly people. Some workers praise professing men and elders who don't read a newspaper on Saturday night so they can "get ready for the Sunday morning meeting". Workers have complained about the friends owning too many worldly books and "feeding on trash from a novel". Workers love to see the friends get to all of the meetings and avoid any other source of information. Information control keeps the group policing of the unwritten worker enforced rules on dress and entertainment alive! If a professing girl owned a TV, she might want to cut her hair, wear pants, makeup or jewelry. The TV would provide the friends with entertainment and might influence their attire and lessen the importance of getting to the meetings. Workers love quietness and complain about unprofessing children growing up under the influences of a TV. The workers want the friends to depend upon the sect for entertainment, information etc.. Workers have rebuked the friends for talking about the news saying "God is still in control of things and leave it to Him". | ||
| Anonymous |
A sex scandal is raging in New South Wales Australia. An ex-worker hsa been accused of multiple sex crimes tracing back to 25 years ago. Sex crimes occured on 2 convention grounds. And it appears that the workers are trying to manipulate the media. Aussie workers like Ray Corbett, John Robinson and Bill Macourt have their work cut out for them trying to improve the image of the perfect way of truth in New South Wales. | ||
| So |
It appears that the workers are trying to manipulate the media. It appears or they are? there is a difference. It appears you are causing trouble, or are you really? | ||
| Anonymous |
In the truth, many professing people fear that they haven't been "faithful enough". Members or friends feel they must work their way into heaven throughthe following: attending ALL of their privileges/fellowship meetings, following a dress code for women, giving the workers money in secret, avoiding worldly friends,marrying professing people who haven't been married before, avoiding worldly entertainment like radio/tv, and obeying everything that the workers preach about in meeting "in a right spirit". There was the feeling that one is trying to be perfect and yet "coming up short". IN meetings each week, people beat themselves up for making mistakes instead of praising God. People vowing to be more faithful and to get victory over their human nature. The truth way is all about sacrifice, being different from worldly people, looking like a true child of God should look like and other bullcrap. Group dynamics and peer pressure causes the friends to race each other to see who can have the best testimony before the unprofessing world and the workers. People trying to be perfect, failing and then becoming depressed. Depression, anxiety and other nerve disorders are rampant in this fellowship. Sad. | ||
| Anonymous |
Something about the truth breeds harshness « Thread started on: Aug 3rd, 2003, 12:20pm » I have seen kind and gentle workers become harsh and abusive as they gain "place in the kingdom". I have seen victims of abuse and harshness often abuse someone else once they became older. I have seen nice worldly people become strict, cold, exclusive and legalistic after making their choice. Why? I am NOT saying ALL professing people or workers are like that. But there is something about the lowly way of sacrifice and self denial that produces harsh and judgemental people. The professing people who post here have been more enlightened than those who wouldn't dare visit this ungodly site full of "enemies of truth". I think many professing people often recieve harsh treatment which they apply to other people without realizing that they could be kinder. The harshness of the worker's lifestyle (denied home, stability and family) produces a harshness that shows itself from time to time. Logged hmm Guest Re: Something about the truth breeds harshness « Reply #1 on: Aug 3rd, 2003, 12:29pm » Why do the workers worry about "worldliness in the homes of God's people"? Could it be that they have to sacrifice a stable homelife themselves and resent someone else enjoying the comforts of the home? SO called "false" preachers (denominational or worldly preachers) have a family, another job and all to keep them busy. They rarely venture into the homes of their members. There is something about the teachings of the early workers that encouraged harsh speaking and living. While today's workers have it much easier, the legacy and teachings of the early workers is stil an undercurrent in the fellowship today. There is a belief that "worldly preachers" want to create an easier way than Jesus ordained. Plus the language of the KJV often is written in a harsher time period than say the NIV or other more current bible version. I have seen young workers wounded by an older worker. And as the younger one grew older, he or she would emulate the older companion. Logged examples Guest Re: Something about the truth breeds harshness « Reply #2 on: Aug 3rd, 2003, 12:36pm » Here are some examples of worker harshness (some of them just human tendencies that can occur in the workforce or elsewhere): A worker reprimanded my father (elder) for talking about the Gulf War 1990-1 while at breakfast on Sunday morning meeting. He said "this is SUNDAY MORNING. We shouldn't be talking about that". A professing lady gave out hymn 35 and a worker said "we will sing verses 1, 2 and 4". I guess he thought it was appropriate for a gospel meeting?? A worker jumped on me because I accidentally kicked over an empty gas can during preps. I should watch where I was going but maybe HE should have placed the can somewhere else?? Worker told owner of Sunday morning meeting to get rid of a radio. Logged Paul Abenroth Guest Re: Something about the truth breeds harshness « Reply #3 on: Aug 3rd, 2003, 12:54pm » Part of the time in 1961 and 1962 I was a companion of the Washington state overseer. At one point a family attended our meetings, and the wife had a brother who was a pastor. She invited us to the home to have a visit with this pastor and his wife. At the beginning of the visit the pastor suggested we begin with a prayer. My overseer companion replied, "I prayed before I came here this evening, and there will be no prayer here tonight." I remember thinking at the time, "Wow. Way to go!" Now I feel sorry as I think of the harshness and rudeness and that it didn't revulse me. Sincerely, Paul Abenroth Logged RACHELSTEPHENS Full Member member is offline PM Gender: Female Posts: 107 Re: Something about the truth breeds harshness « Reply #4 on: Aug 3rd, 2003, 1:32pm » HYMN 35 only has 3 verses. Logged Rachel hmm Guest Re: Something about the truth breeds harshness « Reply #5 on: Aug 3rd, 2003, 3:52pm » The verse eliminated was "friend if you are honest yield...". I guess that sounded like a gospel hymn. I know of several friends in my field that have been rebuked by a worker for giving out a "gospel hymn" in a fellowship meeting. More examples of harshness: I was distracted when writing the previous threads so I thought I would add to this list of "harshness" found in the truth. More examples: 1. Worker gives a young man a worker talk for wearing a class ring. He told MY family he was going to talk to him so I assume he did. 2. Worker told a lady to stop her clock in meeting because it would strike at about the time "people would be returning thanks for the emblems". 3. A child gives out a hymn in meeting and worker ignores the hymn. Older relative of the child reminded him that the child had given out the hymn and the worker says "we prefer that only professing members give out hymns!" 4. Lady was rebuked for talking too loud in the quietness before an AM Special meeting. 5. Professing lady encouraged not to work at a food mart because cigarettes were sold. 6. Workers rebuke a couple in meeting because a child had been making too much noise before meeting began. 7. Friends at a gospel meeting were rebuked for not bringing their hymn books to meeting. 8. Worker turned off light after friends had been talking too long after meeting causing people to stumble to the car. 9. Worker made a comment about too many books in our home growing up! 10. Worker complained about too many people talking at once at the dinner table. 11. Older worker asked his companion to fix the light on the car. Younger worker doesn't do it right away so the older worker gets in his car and goes to town to get it fixed. 12. Older worker writes to regional head worker complaining about a younger worker not being obedient. 13. Professing woman tells her husband to be quiet when he whispered to her before meeting. 14. Friends rebuked several times for leaving the convention building while the waiters were leaving! 15. Older worker rebuked younger companion at several homes for helping with the cooking. 16. Professing people brag about being rude to worldly preachers in the hospital. Old woman told about a preacher trying to tell her that him and her were both Christians and how she told him they were "not in fellowship" 17. Professing people have disagreed with other's testimonies after meeting. 18. At about age 13, a worker asked me if I had read my bible that morning. I quietly said "no". (Why didn't I lie ??) Then he lectured me about the need to read a verse every morning. 19. Worker used to lecture us about table manners and passing the food in the same direction. 20. Worker complained because I had some marks in my hymn book. 21. Worker complained because I didn't wear a tie to Sunday morning meetings. 22. Sister worker complained about "dust on the piano" and asked us "who cleans the piano". 23. Professing man told to shut up at a potluck when a worker was starting to speak by an elder!! I could go on and on. Some of the givers and recievers of this harsh punishment were fine people caught up in a harsh system. Logged hmm Guest Re: Something about the truth breeds harshness « Reply #6 on: Aug 3rd, 2003, 4:12pm » Many times, professing people have felt that it is neccessary to be offensive for the "kingdom's sake". Anything that hinders the quietness of a meeting, the order/form of meetings or the place of the ministry is deemed as AWFUL and one must "take a stand against " the wrong. Many of the workers and friends don't realize how harsh and cruel they can be toward each other or "the world" because they stress the form of the meetings over human warmth and kindness. Thank goodness a few friends and workers are different from the stereotype presented here. But that doesn't excuse those who are hurtful and rude for the kingdom's sake as they call it. Professing adults often push children and teens around quite a bit. I don't remember being chastened by a worker after say age 20 or so. But during my teens, they were constantly on my case about something. I wished the workers would leave parenting to the parents. Some workers don't know that it is impolite to STARE and GAWK at somebody because they look or act "worldly". I remember the workers staring at tapes and other things in my home. Ridiculous. Logged answer Guest Re: Something about the truth breeds harshness « Reply #7 on: Aug 4th, 2003, 9:24pm » Being in a cult is a harsh thing so what do you expect? It's all about CONTROL and the 2x2 would die without it. Logged meme Guest Re: Something about the truth breeds harshness « Reply #8 on: Aug 4th, 2003, 9:54pm » Yes, I have encountered some of these workers/friends in my 23 years in the 2x2 fellowship. I know they are NOT perfect and perhaps God is finnished with His work in their lives, yet. I do feel sad and do pray for these people who are so self-righteous but I pray that God will send them through experiences in life to teach them humbleness, compassionate, understanding and less judgemental toward others.... Some of these workers/friends weaknesses have help me to put my faith and trust in God love and more each day. I am NOT perfect either and I do make mistakes in my life too. I believe when I show mercy toward those who done me wrong then when it is my turn that I need forgiveness, God will be merciful unto me a sinner. (Matt. 6:14,15) For if ye forgive men when they sin against you, your heavenly Father will also forgive you: but if you forgive NOT men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses and sins. Logged kit Guest Re: Something about the truth breeds harshness « Reply #9 on: Today at 2:00pm » I see some professing people doing things against their will and trying to make themselves and others think they are SO happy!! Another thread focuses on spats and power struggles between companions. It all goes back to the Victorian Irish culture that the "truth" was bred and born about 105-110 years ago. People were coarse, blunt and used to "roughing it". Look at all of the ex-communications among early workers-John Long, Wm. Irvine, Irvine Weir, Eddie Cooney, James Fawcett and others. John Long was kicked out of the work and truth because he wouldn't stand up when Irvine asked all who think John Wesley is in hell!! Hell fire preaching, rough and uneducated people and the notion that "truth doesn't change" led to the harsh undercurrent of the truth which rears its head ever now and then. Logged hmm Guest Re: Something about the truth breeds harshness « Reply #10 on: Today at 2:14pm » Someone on Glee's chatroom once was shocked about the Alberta tapes and mentioned that Jim Knipe was a compassionate worker who was patient with her during her teenage struggles. Many of the older workers could have a gentle side to them. But if you ever stood in their way, you could get knocked to the ground. You have to read over notes from the workers born before say 1930 to really get a good idea of the harsh legacy of "the truth". There is an idea in the truth that being "harsh" (taking a stand for truth -their term) is right when the standard of the truth is being compromised. Notice how Alberta worker Jim Knipe keeps asking the friends "do you stand behind this ministry in Alberta"? Keeping up the worker's standards of truth is more important than compassion, unconditional love, meekness, and friendliness. These qualities only matter when the standards of being kept and the unity of the fellowship is preserved. Thus people have had their feelings hurt over trivial things like: Color of stockings, choice of clothing, entertainment in the home, worldly friendships, missing meetings, taking vacations to amusement parks, watches, wedding bands, selection of cup or saucer for the emblems, improper disposal of the emblems, clock in the meeting room, stereo in the meeting room, choice of food for the meal, and some of the most insignficiant things. The problem isn't the people of the truth. It is the SYSTEM!! The legacy of the past. A ministry that cannot and will not accept criticism or suggestions from the lay members and feels like it is the only true representatives of Jesus on the earth. Logged Pages: 1 « Previous Topic | Next Topic » THE TRUTH MEETINGS: The church of George Walker, Jack Carroll, John Hardie, Sam Jones, Clarence Anderson, James Jardine and Willie Jamieson. A nameless church meeting in worker appointed homes on Sunday morning and Wednesday night meetings.Other meetings in this nameless church called "the truth" include special meetings in schools/public buildings, annual 4 day conventions on farms, gospel meetings in rented buildings or homes, and worker meetings. Preachers are called "the workers" or "servants of God". | ||
| Anonymous |
This sect pushes the "separation from the world" concept too far! To the point that some professing people have little or no contact with unprofessing neighbors or family members. Workers are so removed from mainstream society that they give flawed advice about raising children or career decisions. Professing people seem lost if they move into an area where there are few friends or workers! They don't know to interact with unprofessing people due to "differences in their dying/separated lifestyle and the worldling's lifestyle". | ||
| Anonymous |
The workers talk about the bitter "lies" on these websites yet many of them admit that wouldn't even read this "garbage". You couldn't drag most of them here to read these concerns. They are SO sure that they are right (as servants of God, they won't accept criticism or suggestions from others). It is frustrating to try to engage in a conversation about the concerns one has about the fellowship. They are right and you are bitter, unwilling, trying to cause trouble/divisions etc.. I wished the blame was put on the head workers for a change. They are the "spiritual leaders" and should be open to concerns and problems that members or former members have about their sect. | ||
| Anonymous |
http://www.bibles-direct.com Order Hymns Old and New from RL Allan in Scotland. Use the password "allan" to get into the Hymns Old and New section. | ||
| Anonymous |
Professing people are supposed to get a "revelation" that the Truth is the right way. Newly professing babes are judged by whether or nor they are "getting IT". When professing people "lose out" or leave the fellowship meetings altogether, they are often viewed by current members as someone who "never had it". Workers feel that only God can give people a "revelation of it". It meaning God's true way in the earth today. Professing people believe that Jesus has a WAY and a PEOPLE in the earth today! They feel THEY are the WAY instead of Jesus working in most denominations today. What a warped view of the world. | ||
| Breaking News |
Some may be wondering about how the professing people are handling the recent fire episode in California: The friends are fine. The Santee CA convention grounds is fine. Here is a letter: Dear family and friends, Thanks so much to all of you who have called or e-mailed or sent messages, etc. Your care means so much. It's been quite a week. Words can't begin to express all the feelings and emotions that we have all faced. I've never seen such devastation so quickly, and it's not over yet. This may get a little long, but many have called and asked, so thought I'd put a few details down at least from what I know. Don't feel you have to read it all. Many of the friends have been affected in one way or another, and I can't speak for anyone else, but here is a "little" account of what East San Diego County has gone through. The Cedar fire started Saturday near Ramona, northeast of SD. Don and Marvell Dawson were evacuated sometime that night and went east to El Centro. I don't think Don & Cheri Swenson had to evacuate. During the night, it quickly traveled south and east due to high Santa Anna winds (easterly winds from the desert for those of you who don't know southern CA jargon) and broke into two fingers. One traveled south into Lakeside and towards Alpine, the other traveled east towards Poway-Scripps Ranch area. Early Sunday a.m. Eucalyptus Hills was warned to evacuate. Those friends include Joe & Linda Gibson, Carlos & Leona Diaz, Melvin and Savannah Dingman, Rob & Karen Gibson, Lance and Amanda Gibson, Brian and Iovonka Todt, and Bob and Ninfa Otero. I'm not sure about AC & Barbara Justus. I don't think any of the Gibson family actually evacuated but were ready to go if necessary. Lance and Amanda had horses to get out also. Brian and Iovonka went to his folks I believe. Mel and I and Marissa awoke totally unaware of the fire or any imminent danger. But we soon got clued in. We went to meeting at Rudolphs with a huge black "cumulus" cloud boiling up to the north. We watched it all meeting. Afterwards we went home and had a sandwich because we had planned on company for supper. But we could see flames just across the freeway (I- on the north side, and decided we better think about evacuating. During the time it took to put together some pictures and papers and walk around in a daze wondering what was necessary to take, the fire had jumped the freeway, and now we could see flames down the hill from us in Harbison Canyon. We didn't waste any more time but had wasted enough as we got caught in a traffic jam on our little street. It took us about an hour to get from our house to the freeway (about one mile) where we headed east (no options). That trapped feeling is one I won't forget. Meanwhile, Ron and Pat were notified to leave, and they had the brothers Neil Evans and Ken Beckman. Dave and Lorinda were out of town so Ron and Neil went over and got their dog and some pictures before they left. They also had traffic getting off Victoria Dr. Louis and Alyssa Gonzales and kiddos left about the same time and were headed to El Centro. I haven't heard their story yet except the second night they stayed in Yuma with Ty and Shelly Cox. We met up with Ron and Pat and brothers east of Alpine, and headed for Roy and Leora Barnes in Jacumba. That was our place of refuge Sunday. Bob Osenga had gone to Tanama, Mexico for Sunday a.m. meeting and couldn't get back home, so he was also at Barnes. Neil and Ken decided to head back to the Tanama conv. grounds. We had a sing and enjoyed good fellowship that evening in spite of worrying. Then they lost power and Roy and I played music in the dark until Leora rounded up enough candles to see again. Two of the Barne's grandsons also showed up with 3 of their friends. They were coming back from the desert with their dirtbikes, so we were a grand total of 13 in their cozy abode plus a dog and an unhappy cat. Sometime Sunday night Melody and Richard Rudolph evacuated to Middledorfs, and George and Debbie Church left... to family? Bob and Ninfa Otero were staying at Andrew and Tami's watching the kids, and they were evacuated for the second time, this time from Andrew & Tami's in Blossom Valley. They went to Dave & Annette Sandages. I think it was Monday when Linda Carroll, Ilene Meyring and Bernadine King were evacuated. Ilene stayed with Jim and Lorraine Rolston. The fire also came down in front (north) of the Santee convention grounds in the Mission Trails area but not close enough to cause evacuations there. Monday was a day of waiting, and driving and trying to find a route back into town, and listening to the radio as the fires ravaged East County. We were with Rudolphs the whole time, and Bob Osenga was with us all day Monday. What a trooper. Stuck with us like glue and never once complained. He stayed with Barnes in Jacumba again Monday night, but they also had about a dozen kids staying there also. We couldn't get back, so tried to get a motel in El Centro, but the town was booked up solid, so we went to Yuma for the night. The shower was wonderful! Incredibly, the fire came close to almost everyone, (within houses) but none of the friends lost anything. Ron, Pat, Mel and myself and Marissa left Yuma as soon as we heard the freeway was opened, and headed home. Lou and Alyssa were right behind us. We barely squeaked through before the freeway was closed again. Flames were right down at the freeway at the Descanso turnoff. Lou and Alyssa didn't make it so they spent a 3rd night out, this time at Barnes. Roy and Leora's place was a real place of refuge. They were wonderful, and indefatigable. Especially with no power, thank goodness for gas stoves. All markets and gas stations were closed. We got home Tuesday aft. to a dark, dismal, brown fog. You couldn't see across the valley. You couldn't see the sun. The smoke smell was rampant, and ash was snowing everywhere. The ground was covered in white/gray ash. It reminded me of when Mt. St. Helens volcano blew and rained ashes for days. I lit candles at 3:00 in the aft. After seeing the blackened, devastated landscape everywhere, it left a dismal, heavy feeling. So many losses of homes, so much ruined land. Some neighbors houses untouched, other neighbors completely wiped out. Right next to each other. Words can't describe it. Some said it looked like a war zone, and I can empathize with that feeling of utter loss. Others said it looks like a moon scape. And it's everywhere. We are staying with Mel's folks presently as there's no power in Alpine or Ramona, and they are giving us a Sunday/Monday prediction for power. Petri's had bible study by candle light and lantern this evening. But we awoke this morning (Wed.) and a heavy marine layer has moved in, thinning out the muck as winds carry it east. I didn't feel quite so heavy hearted and spent the day attemping to clean up the mess that everyone is facing. The fire continues to rage. Today it destroyed Lake Cuyamaca and surrounding forest, the two campgrounds up there-- Paso Picacho where we've had many breakfast potlucks, and Green Valley Falls, plus Cuyamaca Peak and Stonewall Peak. Firefighters saved the towns of Pine Valley, Descanso and are trying to save Julian presently. It's headed back towards Ramona where it started. Talk about an unleashed monster. I've only described the southerly finger of the Cedar fire. I don't know how many of the friend's homes were threatened from the easterly finger towards Poway and Scripps Ranch. There are also two other fires burning concurrently in San Diego. The Otay fire came close to Al and Michelle Rizos, but I've been told they are okay. That fire is contained. The Paradise Fire came close to Sam and Debbie Hough in Valley Center, but last I heard they also are okay so far. Our sister workers were trying to have a little R&R in Big Bear and they were evacuated due to a fire up there. No escaping the fires in southern CA! I know this has gotten long but I hope it's accurate. It you are interested in more news or pictures, try www.uniontrib.com or www.signonsandiego.com . Many, many thanks again for the outpouring of care that has been shown to all of us. Calls from Hawaii to Maine have came in. Thank you, and hopefully we can say when this is all over, that everyone came through unscathed. But I'm realizing that faith means trusting when times are difficult. So I hope that somewhere in all of this, my faith is growing a little. A little family in Alpine | ||
| Anonymous |
Imagine the professing mindset: You are in a religion where your church members (just the faithful ones at that) have a chance of going to heaven and the rest of the world is destined to hell! Non-members are destined to hell because they don't belong to your meetings (or church). Weird. | ||
| Anonymous |
Some younger workers and professing people are trying to downplay the ONLY WAY belief! I think more publicity from the media might cause "The Truth" to make a few revisions and changes on the surface. Deep down the rank and file of those in the "center of God's way or kingdom" will cling to the only true religion belief. Even if they don't promote it as much as in the past. Workers are bad about telling new converts that "God is the judge" when the outsider atends their first few gospel meetings. Then the worker starts referring to the meetings as "God's way" or "God's kingdom. Listen to the terms they use which excludes their group from the rank and file of Protestant denominations! | ||
| Vicki (63.135.202.141) |
There are a number of religions who believe they are the only right ones: Mormons, Johova wittness, Mennonites, Amish, and on and on and on! Heaven was never meant to be impossible for the followers of Christ to be accepted. Christ said LOVE is the most important commandment. Love your neighbor, love your enemy, love GOD with your mind, spirit, and soul. Jesus said come and I will make you fishers of men. The most important part of being a Christian is leading others to Christ...very simple, no leagalistic rules. John 6:3 God gave his only begotton son, so that who so ever believes in him will be saved. Christ was the sacrifical lamb who died for our sins. Perfect from birth the God-Man suffered more than anyone on this Earth has ever suffered.His blood bridged the gap that we as humans fall so short that GOD can not even look at us because of our sin. Repent your sins, join a church that preaches the word that the Bible teaches, get baptised, and share the word with everyone. They are churches who teach the wrong message and there are churches who teach the word as the Bible teaches, you must have two good ears and eyes and study your Bible. Your pastor is not going to be the one who saves you, you will stand with the great and small on judgement day and you alone will be judged by a generous GOD and Jesus will be your interceptor for you. | ||
| Anonymous (216.123.238.135) |
i used to be mormon, I have seen how the 2x2s operate, what a load of crap both of them are. |
