| Author | Message | ||
     blackwood666 (blackwood666) New member Username: blackwood666 Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.93.61.145 |
From The Desk of Grand Magister Blackwood Temples of Satan and known as “The Satanic Pope.” Two thousand and four is behind us, and I can only hope that we as Satanist’s will do more to forward Satanism in two thousand and five. I have been silent and there is reason, I have watched the as The Church of Satan now embarrasses itself with the words of a new high priest and his band of merry men and merry women who do nothing to further the religion that LaVey their founder once called “The World’s Greatest Religion.” And of course all the while they refute and deny existence of those who seek to form satanic enclaves and organizations that “outshine them, along with an inability to converse or exchange with others in their own religion choosing “negativity and ignorance.” As Satanic Pope of New World Satanism, I have no desire to hold any Modern Satanic title; I have decided that the “cause” we as Satanist’s should first dissolve before we can move forward into society is to bury Anton LaVey “once and for all.” I have never been afraid to speak my mind, as I have openly distributed this sword through-out the world striking at the sides of Modern Satanism unlike any other leader would dare! With ego as some will say, I am the hero that stands at the gate and swings his sword upon the falsehoods that remain in the world under the banner Modern Satanism. After years and years of examining Anton LaVey’s “poorly constituted works” I have held myself back, until today and have finally decided to as a New World Satanist that I will attempt to educate those who seek enlightenment regarding “where Satanism really came from and its historical origins.” With this I will also destroy most of what is known as Modern Satanism, not as a personal vendetta but as a gift to the hundreds of thousand of people who discover Satanism through Anton LaVey’s ramblings and commercialized overtones every year, falsely misunderstanding Satanism. As New World Satanism’s Pope and “Satanism’s Representative to the World” I come forward and agree to represent the religion as a whole, “baring” Modern Satanism which I feel is really Pseudo-Satanism at its best. My representation is about leadership and ability and all I have exhibited, unlike my predecessors in Modern Satanism, I wish to educate and correct their wrongs in able to better serve my own religion as a “true leader.” However let me explain for those who are the “internet critic” and “blogs-master” Modern Satanism is a concept developed by The Church of Satan and Howard Stanton Levey also known as Anton LaVey it did not exist prior to the nineteen sixties. The Temples of Satan has deemed Modern Satanism “Pseudo-Satanic” due to its false representation of Satanism and admittance of it’s own leadership as being “commercial” for profit or gain, religion is a serious thing a personal journey and The Temples of Satan treats its for what it is an “actual religion.” Newsflash! Satanism existed with early man; New World Satanism represents the return to the historical path, which far reaches beyond any “Sixties Satanism.” It is time we as Satanists drift from the hippies and dark and drift forward with “Satanic Pride, its not about a red card or a certain symbol it’s about living as an “adversary” and controlling ones life through a series of actions and practices which are proven over thousand of years through-out history. I have been trying to explain this for years and finally as I watch The Temples of Satan grow I realize the work Grand Mage Wynter and myself are doing along with the Temples of Satan is really making an impact on Satanism, it shows from the growth in membership. New World Satanism is a choice, a choice to become a “Real Satanist” or “live a lie” as those in Modern Satanism continue to choose. No Satanic Community? I laugh at the ignorance I meet many people every day, as a Satanic Leader should, and I have found beyond the temples and churches dedicated to being Satanic there are more Satanist’s living without claim to membership or affiliation, a group of bright individuals gathering here and there to discuss Satanism or chatting about on the Net all with the desire to find one another, this constitutes a “Satanic Community” to me. And for the leaders of Christianity, as The New World Satanic Pope I warn you to stop misleading your congregations into thinking Armageddon is nearing for the ability of financial gain, I will address such ignorant and blatant actions over the entire year in my series entitled Satanic Sermons which will be available to all who desire such information to join me in combating the falsehoods issued by these organized thieves. Some will come to say don’t be jealous because these “so-called” spiritual leaders are doing well, but I say if I wanted to bilk people I would of course leave Satanism and join Christianity for the profit of it, better yet join the Church of Satan move up to the inner circle and gain from those who stupidly send them membership fee’s. I will march forward and attack them openly as time permits they have no ability to withstand the Satan, whom they are unprepared to deal with. Neither Modern Satanism nor Christianity is for your Satanic Pope, who has a purpose and a direction for all in Satanism to be strong and educated about the past and the truth as living life as a Satan deserves. I am here for all of you and frequently take phone call from those who need questions answered, but prefer email, since I do work at another profession, I have always stood in the face of debate and stood as a representative of Satanism, ask yourself if your leader has stood in the face of Christianity and performed as a Satan. In the next few years my only employment will be being the Satan I speak of, and that of course will come with issuance of my long awaited book within two thousand and five, the book of course has undergone many changes and currently is undergoing final grammatical and historical changes to complete the introduction, so the critics will suddenly be silenced. Work has already begun on the follow-up and my very own true to life story which includes my various and life changing experiences I will share for the new millennium and with such information I can only hope to display the inherent role model I will have become for all who suffer from being slightly overweight. I have overcame many obstacles in my very own life, attributing my ability to change at will into a Satan and my ability to use charisma to overcome many issues and shine brightly upon the lives of each and every person who becomes my friend. The rumors, the false tales can never truly replace the truth which I have never ran from, I have admitted to many short-comings and the inability to use grammar properly. However this has never stopped my inner strength and ability to deliver a definitive message to Satanism, I cannot and will not rest until Satanism understands its roots, and recognizes LaVey for the “carnival showman “ he really was, and for the falsehoods he made including representations of Satanism for personal gain, which is almost as bad as Christian Ministers. Thank You Grand Magister Blackwood Temples of Satan www.realsatanism.com | ||
| sharon (sharon) Junior Member Username: sharon Post Number: 27 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.79.45 |
Blackwood 666...Your satan is a girlie man. He has already lost his first big battle and was cast to earth. Is it not bad enough we have to put up with that loser down here, do we have to hear about him to. There will always be those who run after evil, trying to become part of it, as if life for most is not hard enough. Personally I never cared for satan, he is childish and petty, and while he can appear as an angel of light he is rather ugly and a very poor dancer. I think it is those hooves, finds it hard to do the two step. Can you imagine him as a husband or father, he never keeps his word, he lies all the time, cheats all he can, and no christmas presents. If he gave presents he could be Bill Clinton. No wait I have seen Bill dance. Imagine , LaVey having the nerve to make satan look bad, gosh what a meany. I would think that saying the Lords pray backward and hanging the cross upside down was already carnival enough. While I am not a fan of old nasty boots, he is at least honest in his advancement of evil, not trying to hide it in some mumbo jumbo and taking lame pokes at christans. If you want to follow satan step up and do so, say I want to folow the prince of darkness back into hell because its too hard to do good and help people. I want to take the easy way and not be responsible for my brother. It is hard to be a christian and easy to blame others. If you want to rest stop running, you can not run away from yourself. It is not LaVey who keeps you up. Have you ever met this thing you wish to follow, that you serve with your mouth. Does he know you? He finds all humans to be garbage, but at least in christians he finds battle, and some even beat him. Those who chase after him he holds in contempt, they are the ones who in battle throw down their weapons and run to the other side. No one respects them. Imagine fighting against your own kind and with the demons trying to enslave humans. Where are our heroes, men of old, those unafraid to face such things as demons. In war you would be known as the fifth column, and we await you, for your weapons are weak and you have no backup. Do you think when the time comes that the demons who were willing to risk all to keep us from life are going to save you. You have already fallen, your battle is over. You might as well just wait now and watch us christians fight your battle for you, there will be no trials for treason later as you will not be needing a trial. But thanks for deserting us when we really need you. Its great to be in the middle of a big battle and see that some of your men have dropped their weapons and run to the other side. You can say that what I say is not true, but they are demons and we are humans and you are a human worshipping demons and fighting on their side. There is no other way to look at this. It is as Jesus says you are either for me or against me. Since you are against him you are for satan, and if you are for him then you are a traitor. You are a cog in the cycle of evil. I hope that all who want to call themselves satanist realize that they are against humans, and for aliens, for as you know demons are another race, a race which has already proven to want the total destruction of the human race. But it is good that you are on their side for the weak shall be no good to us in battle, let them have you and we will fight your battle for you. For all your postering you will be praying some day for us, those who you now stand against, you will call out to my Father and ask for strength for us. You will watch while we battle and not be able to help, you will reach out your hand but will have no weapon. You will see us fall, and not be able to bear the sight. For with us will go your hope. That will be your pain, for the truth will be known to those who have fallen, and they can not save those who are still in battle. You will watch as your world is torn apart, and demons inhabit all you know, then you will know the truth. We are small but we will be victorious, my Father promises that, and since satan is his he has that right to do so. I know that you think that this is not so, but you will in time see that you are fighting for another race, and they laugh at the foolishness of humans to think that they can be part of the kingdom that demons battle for, they are not even given slavery. They promise only death for humans. Did you forget that this is all a battle for your soul. That satan said you were not worthy to have one, that your heart was evil, and you were weak. Well my brother you proved his point, but it is never to late. I will tell you that it is next to impossible to leave satan, he does not like to lose even one sheepal. Maybe you had better stay with him. You would find it to hard to do what must be done to win this war. We will fight on without you. And later when the battle is won and the human race stand victorious where will you be standing. You will be judged as a traitor, for you are such. You do not stand against christians you stand against your people, your race. Satan is not against christians, he is against the human race, he fought the human race long before there were christians. He hated your greatgrandfather and all who came before him. You do not stand against any faith, you stand against all humans as does satan, you stand against your race. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 94 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Y'know, it's a funny thing. I see Christians here alleging that others are against their religion, saying that to people who'd written nothing derogatory, but then sally forth and write abusive commentary of their own. Those who do that are hypocrites and small minded people. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Junior Member Username: sharon Post Number: 28 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.103.74 |
Fluff...I was wondering if you or satan would reply first, maybe your just faster. I would think that you have enough people here to bicker with, are you getting bored bashing Christian elsewhere. I guess I should say denying your bashing Christians elsewhere. I see you everywhere defending yourself, saying I do not bash Christians. Why do people think that, because it is what you do. You are either for Christ or Satan, there is no middle ground, both Christ and Satan know this , why do you not know this. I know that you do and you have chosen your side but want to keep playing with Christians . You do not fool anyone that is why I see you everywhere defending yourself. Do not worry I am sure that satan needs your help to defend himself against me, but really dear he is very careful himself against name calling so you might want to keep that in mind. No point in you getting old nasty boots mad at you. Cause then the fur would fly. I think I liked it better when you were defending witches and that sort, or even yourself. Your defending satan is a little silly since unless I am mistaken you are also of the human race, or maybe you are the exact type that my whole message was pointing to, those who are traitors to their race and are on the side of demons. Since you defend Satanist religiously I must say you are the perfect example of such a person. The fifth column, those of the human race who stab their own in the back to ingratiate themselves to power and do not care of the source. Even Judas only sold Jesus out for money, not to a race of demons. But since you do not believe in Jesus I guess that does not really mean anything to you. I do thank you for your effort to point out that there really are people who defend and fight for satan, for who was angered quicker than you, not satan for he knows the truth of my words and would have let my message go unanswered. So as not to give me the chance to speak again .He is very clever, this I give him, but he should get better backup. As you can see no Satanist answered my message. You must give Satanist more credit, they are not stupid people who can not defend themselves. Many stupid people are smart enough to know which race they belong to, and not worship a race of demons. You should be a little more careful, satan is not really a fan of those who step out of line, and he may see your feeble attempt to defend him as an insult. Do not forget his pride, for it is legend. And you have no idea how much he hates me, I do not defend him or his demons. He like you would like me to be silent, and you have given me this chance to speak. So here is what I say to you Fluff, as the world falls apart and you decide to switch sides and come back to the human side of this war and call out to Jesus, he will not hear your words for he has heard all your words until now and you will have to fight your own battle. You will lose and all the witches and demons in the world can not save you. And if you do not believe in this battle then the bible is not your book and why are you here. This is a battle ground, not a place for fluff. Now I shall write your reply and save you the time. I never bash Christians, I am not a Satanist, I only defend them and the things that they say, why do people pick on me and abuse my words, poor me poor me. I say this to you Pick A Side and Stay on it, humans or demons. You can not be on both sides, chose one or the other . If you can not then you should not speak for no one trusts someone who does not know which race to fight for. Did you think this a game, yeah , satan is lots of fun, and all the people who follow him will have lots of fun. But at least Satanist have chosen a side, may God Bless them, for he loves them also, but hates their work. But you and all those who can not chose a side have neither God nor Satan. | ||
| tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Junior Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 |
"Those who do that are hypocrites and small minded people." - Even so, Fluff. And don't forget the obviously demented. (But not to worry - they won't let you!)  | ||
| sharon (sharon) Junior Member Username: sharon Post Number: 31 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.12.71 |
tpfkasof... The Desk of Grand Magister Blackwood Temples of Satan and known as “The Satanic Pope.”I have overcame many obstacles in my very own life, attributing my ability to change at will into a Satan and my ability to use charisma to overcome many issues and shine brightly upon the lives of each and every person who becomes my friend. it’s about living as an “adversary” I have openly distributed this sword through-out the world striking at the sides of Modern Satanism unlike any other leader would dare! Is this who you are defending? Did you read his statement to Christians and Satanist? I was just wondering, as I do not know you and I do not want to misjudge you as a satanist. For if you are his defender then fine, I have no problem with that. But do you understand what it is that you are defending. It does not matter if he is speaking the truth. Fluff may defend them also, but one must not get ones feelings hurt if one is brave enough to defend the Santanic pope. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 95 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.107.60.82 |
Sharon, I have never "bash(ed) Christian everywhere". I have, on several occasions, spoken lovingly and admiringly of my devout Catholic mother, my cousin who's a Methodist Minister and others. I have also said that I would send a child of mine to a Christian school or at least Sunday School. Anti Christians do not write such things. Also, please be advised that if I see a post that is of interest to me on a public forum that I frequent, that I can and will post there. If this is a problem for anyone, then I suggest they go back channel. And your text which you represent as my opinions and stance is pretty far off the mark. This is a discussion forum. Saying that you liked me better when I defended witches but not Satan or Satanists makes no sense since, according to you and quite a few others, the former includes the latter. My commentary was about your inconsistence. You bash others, write all kinds of ad hominem crap, then (often falsely) accuse others of doing that to you. And your latest posts just confirm that. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Junior Member Username: sharon Post Number: 33 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.114.225 |
Fluff... I can not figure out why you are so determined to answer for satan, he has a mouth, let him talk. If you do not understand the differences between witches and Satanist then you should not answer for either. Does your devout Catholic Mother know that you are here defending the satanic pope? You would send your own child to Sunday school or a Christian school. But you defend the demon who would destroy every Christian on the planet if it were possible. I do not see how you can make such claims. If I was defending Hitler I would not say I would even send my child to a Jewish school. Do you read your own posts? I have already shown you many places in which you are defending yourself from your anti Christian works. Right here and right now YOU ARE DEFENDING THE SATANIC POPE. Is there anything more against Christians than that, I do not think so, for they hang our savior upside down on the cross and say our Lords prayer backwards. As a very devote Christian I would think that your Mother would have told you that. Jesus threw demons out of humans, not Christians, humans. None of your message makes much sense, I bash satan, or demons. I find no fault with any religion, nor any race, well except the demon race, but certainly not the human race. As long as they are not worshipping satan then they will not get a bashing from me. And as fun as this is to keep explaining to you that satan is a demon I just do not have the time. If you ever feel differently I am sure that there are many here who would be more than willing to help you. As for me I only came here to speak to the satanic pope. Since he does not answer I shall leave this place to you. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.107.60.82 |
Sharon, I've written nothing about or for Satan, which is more than evident if you actually read what I wrote. I wrote nothing defending the Satanic Pope, I merely defended the diversity of this great nation (and of other nations, as well) of ours. IOW, people's rights to believe as they see fit and to have civil discussion on a message board. And you do sometimes bash individual people posting here. You don't, as it happens, just confine your remarks to ideology. Were that the case, we'd not now be having this discussion. And, yes, I am well aware of the Christian ideological views of Satan. However, that's not what I was speaking about. | ||
| tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Junior Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 |
Dear Sharon, What has made you think Fluff and I are "defending the satanic pope"? Personally, I don't believe there is such an animal as "the satanic pope", nor do I believe in "Satan", "demons", or other such foolishness, and I certainly don't "defend" that rubbish. What I find worthy of defence are reason, intelligence and compassion. It's a shame you do not have the time to discuss this matter. I know I would not care to spend my life locked in battle with an imaginary enemy, and I would like to help you realise what is real and what is imagination. I think it would be liberating for you to understand that "the Devil" doesn't exist unless you are willing to create "him" - which you do simply by believing! Have you ever considered this: wouldn't it be logical and proper to call one who believes in Satan a "satanist"? (Somehow I doubt you would care to be identified as one. So, you might want to stop and think before jumping to the conclusion that Fluff, I or anyone else who posts here are spokespeople for what you so passionately oppose.) | ||
| doug (doug) Intermediate Member Username: doug Post Number: 312 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 151.198.124.109 |
blackwood You haven't recognized anything that any true believer in Christ can't see, That is that Anton Levey was a "carnival showman" and not a true Satanist. Still, I find it ironic that you want to, if Christ allows you, to expose one lie for the father of lies. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.107.60.82 |
I think my main point is that those who have a problem with their faiths being dissed (sometimes alleging it's taking place when it's not...) should not diss the faiths of others. I get that for some, it's a holy crusade. But consider this- yelling at people and making them wrong will not convert them. That will not change their minds. That is why civil discourse is more effective. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Junior Member Username: sharon Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.92.134 |
Blackwood 666... I am glad my word affected you so, and I hear that you are also open new Ideas, can not hurt to check out those things in which others believe. May God Be With You. | ||
| bee (bee) New member Username: bee Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.238.10.237 |
Hi ball_of_fluff & tpfkasof, Long time! I am not sure because I do not remember either of you claiming to be born again so here in may be the reason as believers we are misunderstood & thought demented. As believers each of us has to seek the Lord for wisdom in how to convey the great message of Christ being the only way to the Father & also warn of the danger of Satan & his goal, men's souls. Jesus & John the Baptist offended many with their words. I do not claim to know how it is that God has another to speak but with all due respect to both of you I would not have chosen the words you have chosen to use here even if it were my enemy. Hopefully in the future civil discourse can work both ways. Bless You Both. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 105 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Hi, Bee, As to the first part of the postI've not said anything about my beliefs; this would, of course, include being or not being born again. In fact, I definitely (and repetitively) indicated that I wasn't going to do so since they were not relevant. And I'll keep on saying it when the need arises as it evidently has once again. As to the rest, I have seen so many people giving others a bad time for not having beliefs like their own (as was done with this Satanist chappie) then accusing others of giving them a bad time. This is hypocritical. And when it happens I will point it out. Please see previous post. It's not a question of who has the truth. I will illustrate this with a hypothetical: Let's say that ABC religion is the true one. And that there are several adherents of ABC religion in a certain venue- their names are Jane, Joe and Thomasina. Let's say it's a coffee shop. So they meet someone from XYZ religion whose religion not only glorifies what the ABC religion does not, but also sets itself up in opposition to the ABC religion.His name is Trey. It's open mike night for philosophical discussion at this coffee shop. Trey goes up there, starts spouting off about his particular deity of choice. Josephina comes up and starts telling him he's a jerk and he's damned. Joe chimes in saying he agrees. Trey defends his own right to believe things and then is accused by Joe of attacking him. Which has not actually happened. Jane comes up and tells Trey what she disagrees with that he said. She doesn't indulge in ad hominems like "you're damned" and "you this and you that" (unlike a number of posts here on this thread.) She explains her position calmly. She discusses her objections to XYZ and the virtues of ABC. She will make a much better impression on Trey and on the audience than will Joe and Thomasina. As I said, Bee, when I see ad hominems and hypocrisy here, I will say something. "God is on my side" is not a valid rationale.Because that's like saying the end justifies the means. Be like Jane. Not like Thomasina. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Junior Member Username: sharon Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.94.105 |
Bee... She has no beliefs...She is not a satanist but defends them, she is not a witch but defends them, she takes offence of my words to the pope of the Satanic Church, who hang Jesus upside down on his cross. IF it was her savior hanging upside down she would not take offence. Yet she thinks I am harsh with him, a satanist. Like the pope of the Satanic Church can not defend himself against one old woman. What did you think her beliefs would be. I am sorry but you waste your time here, there are no ears to hear. She is neither hot nor cold, but luke warm and you know what doctrine says. It is nice to see you here again. I have missed many from the day when we were all here. I came back new years to answer the message from this new pope. As you can see he answered me. But I know you and you shall never give up, just watch that you do not throw pearls before swine. I thank God for your love of this world. | ||
| doug (doug) Intermediate Member Username: doug Post Number: 333 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.162.52.21 |
blackwood666 Satan has dominion over the powers of the air, the vibrations and all that comes from them including thoughts of people that arise from reacting to them but Christ Jesus perfectly reflected the speaking silence, the nothingness that defines all things. This is high above Satan and has defeated Satan's rebellion and brought judgment on him as a murderer. When all things go back to the nothingness they came from those who stay with Satan will disintegrate in fire with full consciousness and pain. Satan can not take you beyond time and matter to eternity without harm. It may seem like fun and games and power now but it won't be then. All those who don't love truth will be deceived by Satan, the devil. If you have power from Satan you will understand a bit of what I am saying because you know that you can not read people who come from the speaking silence so you know it exists. You understand that Satan has dominion over all the fakes and phonies but Christ Jesus never responded to his vibrations and he had no rights over him as he did over all the descendants of the one who ate of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil thinking it would make him a god or like God. He had dominion over all those who fell to his vibes until he had those under him kill one who wasn't his who reflected the nothingness that defines all things. Satan tried to kill the expressed image of the uncreated creator but death had no rights over him and Satan described his own judgment. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 107 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Oh, I have plenty of beliefs, Sharon. I just don't post them on places like this. So this is a statement you really cannot truly make.Though I see this doesn't stop you...  I am passionate about a number of things, among them people's right to freedom of speech. My point was (one mo' time!)  that it's not a question of belief, and whose religion is correct-not on a discussion forum. Maybe one or more of the people posting here are adherents of the true religion. If so, you can spread the truth more efficaciously by not being mean to other contributors. I have no problem with someone saying "I don't agree with you. I have found the truth. The truth is X. Here's the hole in the logic that you've posted.Here's what Jesus says. This is why I believe it. Here's why I think Satanism is bad." I do, however, have a problem with personalized attacks. You don't have to compromise your beliefs. You can get your point across about Jesus, Satanism, all of that- without attacking people. If you want to state what you feel is right or wrong, I say more power to you. But bashing people just drives them away. And it's not a good advertisement for Christianity. I think you think it's the substance of what you say, your underlying point that I don't like. Nope. Talk about Jesus, The Rapture, being saved, etc. But you don't have to attack people. You can say everything you want people to know without attacking them. See my example to Bee about the theological coffee shop. You also should probably quit alluding to people as being swine, albeit allegorical ones. This isn't the first post in which you've done that. I really believe that if someone were on the fence and contemplating leaving whatever they were in vs becoming a Christian that they would be antagonized by a lot of negative personalized statements directed at them. I went to a church a couple years ago in our neighborhood. it was neat looking and my husband and I wanted to look at it. We met the minister and I think he was kind of hoping we'd join the congregation or something though we told him it was the architecture. My point was he was warm and friendly and decent. No hectoring as to what do you believe and oh you're so lukewarm and you're damned and you're this. I would be far more likely to go to a church where a minister like that was serving than to one where people acted rudely and attacked me. I had a conversation with a lady on a plane. She was telling me about Jesus and her beliefs. I thought that was great. But the reason I thought that was great was that she did not attack me. She just talked about her love of Jesus and why and also what she thought I maybe should believe, but she was not vicious. If I were an evangelical Christian, I would rather be frank and open without bashing people personally than to drive them away by writing many insulting personalized comments. And I'll bet you anything that those who do come out and say exactly what they think about God, their church, what's good, what's bad without insulting people get a lot more converts than people who tell other people that certain contributors have no beliefs and are speaking for Satan and are swine. What a terrible example to set for Christianity. http://www.nyctophilia.net/godquotes.html | ||
| tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Junior Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 |
"Throughout human history, the apostles of purity, those who have claimed to possess a total explanation, have wrought havoc among mere mixed-up human beings." - Salman Rushdie | ||
| doug (doug) Intermediate Member Username: doug Post Number: 338 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.162.52.21 |
tpfkasof That'll teach em to be mixed up! | ||
| tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Junior Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 50 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 |
(  ) | ||
| sharon (sharon) Junior Member Username: sharon Post Number: 49 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.85.21 |
Bee... I asked out right on their beliefs and I see that both responded and I will tell you I have read neither of the messages. Did they tell of their beliefs? I would have to guess NO. If I am wrong I will go back and read their messages. But they have no belief in Christ for no Christian would deny him. Do you understand now why they are on this page. Why they defend the Pope of the Satanic Church. Words are wasted here. But I did see where your words were not wasted, so remember that, not every time you reach out can you reach some one, but when you do it is a wonderful feeling. If you do not return here I will not come here either, if you chose to stay then I will stay also. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Sharon. You said I had no beliefs. This is a statement you cannot legitimately make as this is information to which you are not privy.So it was a lie. I have not denied Christ. There is no post where I've done so. In any case, my beliefs are not germane to this discussion since my point was that bitching people out while getting your initial point across distracts from that point and it antagonizes people. That you should be perfectly capable of discussing Jesus, The Rapture, Satan, and related subjects without resorting to ad hominems. I can very easily make that observation without my beliefs coming into play. I'm not the only person to have made such an observation in the course of history. I'm not the first and I won't be the last. Just as when I was discussing Wicca, Harry Potter and Hallowe'en, it was very easy for me to comment upon those subjects without getting into my personal belief system since it does not have anything to do with Wicca or Harry Potter or Hallowe'en. Yet people- including and especially you- wanted to make it an issue. Why? Because they were hoping it wouldn't be the same as theirs so that they could bash and personalize. Sorry, but you're out of luck on that one. Sorry that my choice to not let you into my personal life seems to bother you, but, hey, that's adult life for ya. | ||
| doug (doug) Intermediate Member Username: doug Post Number: 345 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.200.170.137 |
to black wood 666 from mad max have you ever heard of the 8 warriors of all time? if so then u know that they are symbolized by the 8 entities fire, water, air, earth, sun,univers, life, and death. they have been sense jesus died and are there to keep balance. but there are their opposite entities who do the same in darkness. in the end they will face at the battle of armageddon to protect their cause. do you know of this? | ||
| doug (doug) Intermediate Member Username: doug Post Number: 346 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.200.170.137 |
That's my step son above, a little too new agey for me | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 110 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.107.60.82 |
Ah me. So many Dougs, so little time... | ||
| sylvies_friend (sylvies_friend) Intermediate Member Username: sylvies_friend Post Number: 170 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 81.156.194.216 |
Satanism postulates a negative. With regard to what however? It's all based on something that is "rejected", although within this rejection is an acceptance. I will be the first to admit that one cannot know good without having some bad in one's life. On the other hand to extrapolate this onto a metaphysical plane. Get a life? Satanism accepts death as an increment of its pregression. Their own individual members as well? Or is it a case of, "You go first". | ||
| doug (doug) Intermediate Member Username: doug Post Number: 356 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.153.142.130 |
Sylvies friend, The part I quoted in cyan that Roy quoted from a predator may answer your question quite well Here's a quote from a quote from a book "Secrets of a Parallel Universe" by Roy Masters Nature exists on one level of creation; man, on another. You must seek this other realm, this realm of true conciousness. Abandon faith in order to persue glory and selfish goals and you fall, not only under the natural law that governs the animal world, but beyond, into hell on earth. As you aspire pridefully to attain to the greatness that is God's alone, you cast off the mantel of His grace that protects the faithful, and you find yourself in and of the world. This is a domain far more terrible than the natural world inhabited by the simple beasts. It is a merciless world wherein spiritual predators feed upon one another with satanic subtlety. In case you think I am exagerating the existence and scope of the underworld that is reserved for fallen man, let me quote the following from the manifesto of a subversive organization. Note the predatory mentality of the "man" who could write such words. What he is writing about is real, of course, and he knows it. Our goals are old and dark ones; they look on the centuries of Christianity as a trivial interruption. Our goals are like fire, always smoldering below; they are close to the blind will that truly runs the world. They command us to be spiritual vampires, taking power as food for the will. We keep our eternal youth on a habitual diet of others, and the so-called "dark powers" which await us after death are simply other vampires in a new phase of consumption. None of this involves carnage or blood; it is a matter of spiritual conquest. Ours is an alternate Karma, a heritage of power and supremacy. For successionists, the glory of life is the hunt, and our home lives must be arranged in subserviance to it. Nothing can interrupt the joys of predation. We want to reestablish a royal sense of respect, where everyone we encounter must show deference. Our form of mysticism or transcendence often comes in the middle of a crime - suddenly the victims are all that exists: we see through everyone around them, and their suffering is of utterly no consequence. We have our own pantheon of saints; we have our own religious symbols. Our churches reach downward to dark forces; our prayers have a background of sinister music. Our beautific images have more orgasm than love; our heaven is for victors, never the meek. Our brotherhood is like a core of blackness, where everyone who hates goodness can turn. "The wages of sin is death," and between here and there we encounter so much horror that it should wake us to the error of our way; yet our sinful lifestyles turn us into vulnerable prey for those haters of goodness whose allegiance is to the "dark forces." When you allow the environmental stresses to motivate and change you, they displace your human nature and change your destiny forevermore. Your changed nature becomes subject to the forces that created it, and you invite this fate every time you seek to escape your human awareness by wallowing in sensual distractions. As you fall more deeply under the spell of your vices, you change and mutate, until you become such an ego-animal that you cannot - or, more accurately - will not receive the gift of faith. It is your stubborn insistence on your "right" to escape into the flesh that pulls you into lower and lower realms of hell on earth. ... And those dark forces know how to make you feel comfortable and at home in hell until you start to question it and then you need something a lot more powerful than you or the demons you agreed to to set you free. | ||
| tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 63 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 |
So Doug, should one take Roy Masters' stories literally, or is he spinning a midrash? I knew him years ago, and I recall his background and philosophy. I'm inclined to believe it is the latter. I do think he's rather enamoured of the sound of his own voice, as might be expected of a master hypnotist. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.184 |
Hum, after reading the previous posts, it’s no wonder why so few Satanists actually post here. The first thing that happens to any comment by a Satanist here is that they are attacked, without mercy or provocation, for what they believe. And most of these attacks seem to be based off of misconceptions and stereotypes, rather than an actual critique of what that Satanist actually believes. Rather than having done the research to see what a Satanist believes, I have seen every anti-Satanist who’s posted so far nail on the same CHIRSITIAN propaganda about "Satanism". It always goes back to the idea, "if you are really a Satanist, then you worship the evil power, Satan or the Christian Bible, and therefore are an idiot". Wow, not a bit of research done on what Satanists actually believe. It is nothing but the same old Christian clichés over and over again. Funny, this topic is about Satanism, but every time a Satanist posts, about three or more Christians blast them...now why? Isn't it logical for a Satanist to post on a SATANISM BOARD?! So why does every post that a Satanist makes here get attacked, for no real reason other than they use the name "Satan", and any time some one has the courage to stand up for them is labeled as "anti-Christian"? How is anyone here to actually learn what a Satanist believes if all that they see is nothing more than rabidly anti-Satanist propaganda posted here? For a more accurate look at how Satanists believe, I would recommend the following sites, and being the nice guy I am, I made the links for you: http://free.freespeech.org/Ascendancy/websites/ascendancy/newmain/main.html http://www.religioustolerance.org/satanism.htm And, for everyone's information, I am a Satanist, and proud of it. I have read your Bible, and really don't see how it's relevant to me any more than the Dhamapada. | ||
| paul (paul) New member Username: paul Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 168.143.113.125 |
Could someone tell me why anyone would want to follow Satan? | ||
| tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 |
...especially in view of the fact that "he" doesn't exist? | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.184 |
Paul, Try the links I posted, the first one has an answer under the topic "Why Satan?" Your question it self seems to be geared at Traditional Satanists, as they actually do worship Satan, but, rather they tend to be polytheists in their beliefs than monotheists. Anyhow, to them, Satan is more of a personal savior, and a benign deity or higher power, and the god of the Bible, if its even a part of their belief system, is often a monster. Other Traditional Satanists see Satan as a deity of knowledge and enlightenment. Modern Satanists, such as my self, tend to see "Satan", not as a real being, but more of a metaphor for humanity's more basic instincts and drives, like the need to learn and understand, test limits, and master the world around you. "Satan", in that respect, is more of a role model than anything else. As for the first poster, I have yet to really read though the site they linked to. They sound like they are more focused on bashing Modern Satanists and Christians than anything else. But do look through the links I posted, they should help answer many of your questions. -da666 | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 111 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.107.60.82 |
Hi, DA, nice to see you again. A number of people on this topic have been told (by both you and by me) in the past that many Satanists aren't deist, and, thus, aren't following an entity named Satan. They didn't like it, though. I don't care if someone wants to talk about Jesus or whatnot-although, since those are subjective opinions, they really cannot invalidate anyone else's beliefs, but the thing is I see people on this and related topics screaming about being persecuted whilst writing very nasty personalized things themselves. On the Satanist topics, the Wicca, and the Harry Potter one, people have screamed and howled that I was persecuting them vis a vis their religions when I'd not said one thing about what they should or should not do or made one single value judgment about their religions. Their behavior, yes,their religion, no. These same posts often contained very nasty unchristian sentiments about others on the board. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.189.221 |
Ball of Fluff, Nice to hear from you again too. I just get terribly annoyed with the blatant hypocrisy that I often see coming from these "oppressed and persecuted" theists who think its their duty to attack anyone who doesn't believe like them. They often display very immature behavior, and resort to pathetic ad hominem attacks when they are challenged to prove what they say. And, what angers me even more is when they have the nerve to act like the experts on what I believe, rather than shuting their mouths and listening. | ||
| doug (doug) Intermediate Member Username: doug Post Number: 392 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 138.89.130.42 |
Hi da666 People are responding to what they see Satan as as defined by scripture and not the Satanist. I see Satan as the prince of the power of the air. Satan having dominion over all vibrations but not over the nothingness that defines all things. I don't mind that people often stereotype me as a Christian because it gives me a chance to explain myself and express my trip. I was wondering where you went. Welcome back. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.111 |
Thanks for the welcome Doug. Yeah, as soon as them made it impossible for anonymous commentary, I had to join. Also, I was busy with some work that had to be done, like 50 pages of portfolio work...not pretty, especially at 1.5 font. Yeah, stereotypes tend to annoy me too, but they do give me the chance to explain my self and hopefully help another person expand their understanding of my beliefs. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 234 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Doug: I have never confused you with being a Christian. Sharon: Ball of Fluff is a scientologist. Small "s". She is not a member of the "Scientology Church". But her beliefs come from scientology (which is vehemently anti-Christian). This comes from her own postings. It frustrates me too when people react to others postings but do not state their own beliefs, just their anti-beliefs. I call them snipers. They bushwack without revealing themselves or their beliefs. Tpfk.... is another one. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 124 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.107.60.82 |
I did disclose exactly what those posting on those threads needed to know. On the Wicca thread, I posted that I was not a Wiccan. On the Harry Potter thread, I posted that I was not Harry Potter. On the Satanist thread, I posted that I was not a Satanist. It is quite relevant to know if someone who's talking about Satanism is a Satanist, if about Wicca is Wiccan. And I disclosed that information. Were I to start a thread entitled Fluffy's beliefs, then my beliefs would then be relevant to that thread. However there is none and I'm not going to create one. And, no, sorry, those aren't my beliefs. I'm not a member of any organization and I do not agree with things I was told when I was in CofS. So, no, you don't know what my beliefs are, actually, and making things up about them will not accomplish anything. As to being a sniper, you might want to look at your post from yesterday. Drop the personalities and discuss topics. My life is none of your business. There is only one reason you would ask (demand, whine, etc) such a thing and that's to try and find fault. My point was that some people here attack others, (like you and Sharon) falsely label them as anti-Christian (I've never ever posted anything anti Christian. In fact, I've only posted commentary in support of Christianity when I've discussed it.) instead of saying that they disagree with something they have said and why. And that this will not make you any converts or friends among those whom you target in this wise. Like I said, for you, it's a crusade of some kind. But scolding people and getting personal with them and lying about them will not advance your or any crusade. So, if you wanna reach a Satanist or any other kind of ...ist, then talk to him or her the way you'd want to be talked to. Can still express disagreement. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.3.126 |
Anone, Hum, seems like you do quite a bit of preaching your self. And, making a discussion about a person, rather than the topic at hand is utterly pointless. Try to keep on topic, rather than bitching about other members whom you obviously don’t like. What Ball of Fluff seems to be doing is telling posters like Sharon and Franklin to stop acting like the experts in subjects they honestly are not, and to stop demonizing people for stating their beliefs when they are relevant to the topic or asked for. Oh, and you really don’t know the meaning of deluded until you meet someone who claims to be Satan, or Santa Clause, as I have on another forum. Franklin, I am sure one of the reasons you wish to know about where a poster is coming from is so you can better understand them, and then us their “beliefs” as reference for a possible anti-Christian bias. But, in the real world, as in the online universe, people are never so obliging, as their personal beliefs are not your business. They impart such information of their own free will, not because you want them to. And why do the poster’s beliefs matter to you so much, if it is the post that you are left with? Either way, if a Satanist or a Luciferian were to post here, I’m sure they might get a welcome committee of people who think they eat babies, and then call them a “Halloween Satanist” if they don’t met dozens of horrid stereotypes. -da666 | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 126 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
As I said, Anone, I do not believe many of the things I was taught in CofS, things that Hubbard said.I took the Beliefnet what faith are you quiz and Scn'ist came out kinda down the list. A whoooole lotta things came out ahead of it. Some people here want to paint me as anti Christian but that holds no water in view of the fact that I've posted lovingly about my Mom, my cousin the minister, my other cousin who's very devout, my best friend- also devout- the fact that I think that the Passion was the best movie I ever saw and gave me a new appreciation for Jesus' message, and the fact that I have never posted an anti Christian sentiment. If you've a beef with Hubbard, then, by all means, feel free to have it. I have many, and express my disagreements with him daily on several forums. So, no, you do not know my beliefs. And you're not going to. They're not the same as they were when I was in CofS- at all. So, Franklin's effort to ascertain them and to quantify me cannot be done. There are posts where I discuss my beliefs, though, but those are several years old and those beliefs have been changed. So, this is info you do not have an that you are not going to get. Posts like yours, Franklin's and Sharon's prove my decision to be correct. Why ever would anyone want to discuss their beliefs with hostile people? They wouldn't. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 245 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
When I am trying to till a field and flies start buzzing and biting me, I, like anyone else will, get hostile. But the fly knows no better than to do what it does. To criticize others for their posting styles and yet not discuss the topic at hand exposes the critic to be all style and to have no substance, at least showing. An empty suit, in other words. Some of us are tilling the field, sowing seed. Till your own field, sow your own seed. But stop being the pesky fly buzzing and biting. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 127 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
In the past week I've written the following criticisms of CofS and of Scn (translations of Scientologese, initials, etc, available upon request): Remember, the oh so lovely practice of culling pc folders originated long before the death of LRH. It was Mary Sue's idea, but he knew and signed off on it. ** I'll also point out that it was LRH who referred to ex SO members as "DB"s. ** And you know whose idea the RPF was and the RPF's RPF was? Hubbard's. He has Urquhart design those things, but he wanted them. And he wanted the RPF's RPF because he didn't like the fact that some people actually liked the RPF. ** But there are problems with Scn policy as well. ** Scn policies contain contradictory statements about ethics and justice. Scn policies advocate other determining church members. An example of this is that it's a crime to not disclose or confess a PTS condition or sit. ** In one place LRH says to use ethics with a light touch. In another he says it's ok if the EO gets up on the wrong side of the bed and wants to chop off a few heads. ** He also says that the reason staff suffer injustices on certain occasions is because they don't know their own rights. This is a copout since if one has run afoul of an EO or an MAA or an exec, that they do not listen to the person. Ever. He knew this, this was happening during his life. His solution to an unjust "chit" is to ask the person to withdraw it. Then,if that person does not, there's a whole process of appealling, whatnot. But it still puts it on the shoulders of the person who had the unjust chit. ** Or the "sorry, up statistic" thingie. I know what he's trying to do here. Someone who's stats are up is generally someone who is not a fuck up, is running things well and this generally cuts across all dynamics. But I've seen people both in the non Scn workplace and in Scn orgs take advantage of the "sorry up statistic" principle and get away with crimes. Real crimes. ** That is because DM is interested in the organization for the organization's sake. He probably is altruistic in that his own wants may take a back seat to those of the group, but then again, he is the group, he is the leader and can do whatever he wants. He has identified himself with the group so much that it's all the same to him. He is not interested in the members except as how can they be used as cannon fodder. ** But knowing Hubbard's life as I do and being familiar with his tech and policy as I am, I see some of that attitude long long before he passed his scepter along. ** DM does it more, but he was taught to do it. And he taught his cronies as well. ** Do you know what this reminds me of? A child abuser who was abused as a child, whose abuser was abused. So someone kicked off the chain of events. Yes, the current child abuser is responsible and has free will and does not get a get out of jail free card just because he was abused. But you do have to look at who set the stage. ** That is because DM is interested in the organization for the organization's sake. He probably is altruistic in that his own wants may take a back seat to those of the group, but then again, he is the group, he is the leader and can do whatever he wants. He has identified himself with the group so much that it's all the same to him. He is not interested in the members except as how can they be used as cannon fodder. ** But knowing Hubbard's life as I do and being familiar with his tech and policy as I am, I see some of that attitude long long before he passed his scepter along. ** Because ~CofS~ is dishonorable. ** In short, they have a lot to make up for and most people on this and other forums to which I participate have suffered far far more than I ever did and I would like to see those people "made whole" as they say in the legal profession. This may not be possible but damn tootin' there are some BIG apologies due a LOT of people Reges actually will sit there and tell a person that maxing out his credit cards, refi'ing his house, etc, will not drive him or her into bankruptcy and that it will all be ok. ** Interestingly enough, many of the things named are things that various references say not to do. And there's no denying that church members do them and often do so habitually. I liken this a bit to the Koranic instruction for women to dress modestly but nowhere does it say that they should be beaten for showing an ankle when their burkha rides up while putting something in the car (as happened to one lady I read about) or wearing a burkha with a thick fabric netting/grating over the eyes where it's almost impossible to see anything. When religions organize into churches or cults or any sorts of groups, the groups often become more important than the principles being taught, and more important than the membership. This leads to hypocrisy, inconsistency, abuses, etc. It also leads to people becoming very cynical about ALL organized religion-often rightly so. I don't have any patience or room in my life for people (in this case, scientologists) who say they are espousing certain concepts who actually not only do not follow them, but do the opposite, causing dichotomies. Pan determinism-fair game policies on debts-nagging people to charge services, etc. policies on Orgs not arranging loans-orgs arranging loans various tech references on kids-treatment of kids in the SO games condition "tech"- OSA fun'n'games pan determinism-being gleefully quick to scream at a pc who makes a suggestion about something "YOU'RE NOT THE C/S" The auditor's code reference about not divulging or using pc folder contents-culling of pc folders The Pep Bulletin-bad nutrition,too much coffee, cigarettes,etc. The Way to Happiness booklet-poor dental and health maintenance, nutrition (see pep bulletin entry) Various PLs on staying in contact with family, the can we ever be friends tape-enforced disconnection or just plain not staying in touch even if the Org didn't say much of anything about it. Self determinism-being hauled off to ethics for having a cold, speaking your mind,etc Hubbard's requirement that ill pcs get medical care, his reference saying they should get physicals if they seem mentally ill-little or no medical care, the case of Lisa McPherson Hubbard's exhortations not to "evaluate" for others-Various and multitudinous screeching conversations with other pissed off CofS members. That's why I like to actually apply what's written and said in Scn- away from CofS. It's not a viable organization and the posts in this topic show this. People may stumble and fall short of the mark but when a group does it all the time and actually tells people to- that's a seriously fucked up group. (the above post got a lot of approbation-from critics) ** Hi, Andrew- isn't it amazing how one can set out to do or learn one thing and get the opposite? This is the problem with organized religions and is a greater problem with cultic groups, such as CofS is. The bitch of it is, if a church member points this out when it's happening, he or she will be penalized. ** The fact that XYZ repeatedly happens again and again and again and isn't stopping should be addressed. If the people doing it do not address it then others will do it for them. Such as with the Roman Catholic Church and their total mishandling, covering up and even rewarding in some cases of clergy molesting children. Now the church is getting its butt sued off and its being forced to do something. From what I can see it had no intention of doing so til its hand was forced. I'm very sure that had this been a decade ago and somebody was discussing this on a critical forum somewhere that some diehard Catholic would have said "you're spreading turmoil and dissent and not like they're going to listen to your posts". Well, the church of Scn does various things again and again and again. They aren't changing those things so others will discuss them. Someday maybe there will be criminal investigations of anything deemed illegal, maybe there won't. But those things will be dragged out in to the light of day and won't be hidden any longer. The church hides them because they want to keep doing them and still want people to sign on staff, etc. Then, when the person finds that he does not like the conditions, he often is threatened with expulsion and familial disconnection or with this and that. I'm stating a fact. I can name names of people to whom this has happened, and I'm just one of many of those names. Well, I don't know about you guys, but I would rather know that those things go on before I get put into a situation wherein these things are foisted on me. People have a right to know. Just like they also have a right to know about the many things that are positive. You cannot make an informed decision if things are left out of the equation, whether those be good or bad things. Why should anyone want to cover up their actions if their actions are really correct? Trying to keep these things quiet really sends up huge red flags in my mind and that of many other people's. The church often states, at various events and so on, that such and such group (like Interpol, or, back before the CofS/IRS agreement, the IRS) does and did this and that and was actually trying to hide those things. They mention that about Psychiatry often. Well, gee, it's ok to "spread turmoil" by doing that (and yes, sometimes people do get upset) but it's not ok for anyone to discuss CofS' outpoints. That makes no sense! CofS often harasses Free Zoners and critics. When they do, they generally lie or distort something at that same time. Just as they did in my expell/declare and just as they did with the CofS picket of the FZ in London. But, hey, that's ok. And spreading turmoil by those things, and by the "culling" of pc folders - well, that's ok, too. So clearly it isn't a question of whether spreading dissent or turmoil is wrong. It's only a question of who's doing it that apparently, in the eyes of some, makes it wrong. Wow. ** Now most of this stuff was all posted just this past week, and it's from several posts on 3 different forums, not one. I also am the person who started one of the most prolific threads on Clambake- "Being on Staff- what it was like for me." I am the person who posted two separate posts, a few months apart, on Beliefnet, about CofS' treatment of the elderly. And here's a hint, those were highly critical and B'net kept trying to pull them, accusing me of hate speech. So, no, Anone, you are lying about how much criticism I do.There's a whole lot of it.You should probably stop deflecting and actually discuss the subject instead of attacking people. Oh and hey- I don't see the names "Scientology" or "Fluffy" in the subject header of this section of Factnet. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 128 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
I've discussed topics here many times, Franklin. I discussed Wicca, Harry Potter, Satanism - as those topics. I wrote commentary about those very things. I was then greeted with a barrage of have-you-been-saved type stuff that had nothing to do with Satanism, Wicca, Harry Potter, etc. You seem to have no problem with the fact that Anone is going on and on about me, and isn't, him or herself (itself?) disclosing any personal information.So try addressing your theory to/about Anone. (I'm not holding my breath.) My point on this thread is that if a person wants to reach someone else that they aren't going to do it very well if they are being snide to the person. The person will not listen. I don't have to disclose the fact that I'm a Buddhist/Catholic/Secular Humanist/ESTian/Protestant/Jew/Hindu/what have you to make that observation. I think it's fine if people want to discuss what they think of another religion, cult, way of life. Even if that's negative. But this ad hominem crap isn't gonna accomplish anything for anyone at any time. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 129 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Hi, DA, I've known a lot of people of faith of all kinds of faith. And in that I include materialists and agnostics who seemed to have a lot of (dare I say it?) faith in what they believed or espoused. I met some atheists who had a booth in a street fair (this is a university town so street fairs don't just have booths that are for selling of merchandise) and they were sooo defensive. They were rude to anyone who came up to them who wasn't an atheist. This is probably because they were getting a lot of flak from people- even out here. But, still, it was a turn off. And the ones who sit down calmly and discuss their views without bashing people are the ones who tend to get their points across that much better. Historically, force has worked, but it yielded a bitter harvest indeed. Conducting a present day cyber witch hunt (pardon the expression) only serves as a cautionary tale. People who are comfortable & secure with their points of view don't need to bash the shit out of other people with ad hominems, etc. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 246 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
I think most people posting here are comfortable and secure with their points of view. As far as bashing, that is your perception. Going from thread to thread defending one devil worshipper after another with "stop shoving Christianity down everyone's throats" is a call to stop all discussion. Someone who wants to discuss their love for satan in a Christian majority nation knows what they are stepping into ahead of time. You are a tiller of the soil here like everyone else. You are planting seeds like everyone else. My perception is that the seed you are sowing is anti-Christian, pro anything else but Christianity. Nobody questions an individual's right to choose. But here we discuss beliefs. Maybe it gets too hot in here for you. If you can't stand the heat, get out of the kitchen! If you stay, talk substance, not style. Criticizing someone else's style is like being a pesky fly. Shoo! | ||
| tpfkasof (tpfkasof) Member Username: tpfkasof Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.26.203.193 |
Franklin, there is one genuine, bonafide devil worshipper on these boards, and he's not posting in this topic. Right now, he's holding forth in the "Assembly of God" topic, and he's doing more damage to the Christian religion than all us small-time satanism-defenders could ever dream of. I've already told you who he is and how badly he needs your testimony. If you really care about fulfilling The Great Commission, here's a golden opportunity! Go and save this man from the evil which has him in thrall - and if you can do that, you just might save what's left of the human race as well. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.171.119 |
Franklin, About your comments, “Going from thread to thread defending one devil worshipper after another with "stop shoving Christianity down everyone's throats" is a call to stop all discussion.” Or, it could be that she is defending others from the persecution that you seem to complain about. You see, just because a person doesn’t worship your god, but is still a theist, doesn’t mean that they worship the “devil”. I doubt that you would like it if someone was telling you to convert to Satanism, and insulting your faith constantly and criticizing you for not living up to a laundry list of stereotypes. “Someone who wants to discuss their love for satan in a Christian majority nation knows what they are stepping into ahead of time.” But you see, this is not a theocracy, and there is something called the Establishment Clause. Don’t like it, then move to a nation theocracy, like Iran. And, this is a Satanism thread, not a Christianity thread. And, I haven’t seen any Satanists here asking to be “saved”. And, I also haven’t seen any Satanists asking to be preached to either. So, my question is why do you insist on harassing those like me about our beliefs? What gives you the right, much less the incentive to do such in the first place? Funny, religious tolerance seems to be more of a common belief in Satanism, but you cry for religious tolerance for Christians, yet demonize non-Christians, especially Satanists like me, while knowing absolutely nothing about us. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.171.119 |
Oh, Sharon, just 'cause some guy claims to be the "Satanic Pope", doesn't mean he gets any other Satanists to follow him or recognize his authority. And how much he trashed the LaVeyan Satanists, ha, I doubt that they would follow him anyway. As a whole, we don't have an over-bearing hierarchy telling us what to do, with an exception of a few sects. Oh, a Satanic Pope...hahahahahaha.... | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 247 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
So far as this being a "satanic" thread, that is a joke. Just the titles some give themselves are more of a "here I am Christians, I'm in your face!" This is mock and tick off the Christians site. I've known it all along. You crave a response, you'll get with a response in spades. Then you whine because I and others responded. Read my posts above. I don't deny your right to believe what you want to believe. I would not want to live in a theocracy, a Christian one or otherwise. But you're here to discuss. So stop your whining and start what could be a real discussion. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 9 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.0.63 |
Franklin, About your post, “So far as this being a "satanic" thread, that is a joke.” Then you must be the only one laughing. Anyone who is literate in the English language can tell you that this thread deals with Satanism, and topics relevant to Satanists. It would be logical to assume then, that there would be Satanists voicing their beliefs on a Satanism thread…but so much for logic… “Just the titles some give themselves are more of a "here I am Christians, I'm in your face!" This is mock and tick off the Christians site. I've known it all along. You crave a response, you'll get with a response in spades. Then you whine because I and others responded.” I am not whining. I just gladly throw the crap you and Sharon and other rabidly anti-Satanists back at you. It’s a reciprocal effect, you see. You come here mocking and ridiculing those like me because of our affiliation with Satanism, be it Modern, Traditional, or somewhere in between, then expect to get some flack for doing it. You see, insulting people and ridiculing their beliefs will only distance them from your message. That’s what Satanists seem to understand that you don’t. Its part of the reason I left Christianity in the first place. It was people like your self whom seemed to have nothing better to do than harass people of different beliefs, then grip and complain when someone dares to actively challenge you. It’s the lack of respect you, and those like you give to people of different faiths that annoys me. It is hubris like that, which drove me from the Church. I still haven’t regretted that decision either. ”Read my posts above. I don't deny your right to believe what you want to believe. I would not want to live in a theocracy, a Christian one or otherwise. But you're here to discuss. So stop your whining and start what could be a real discussion.” The only one who’s bitching and complaining about Satanism here is you, Franklin. But it’s okay, don’t cry. And, to my amusement, I have found that you have only posted 4 times on this thread, and 3 of those posts were personal attacks on Ball of Fluff. At least you’re consistent. So, you want tolerance? Stop attacking people with ad hominems. It’s a two-way street, and if you decide that showing people a little bit of respect is too much for you to handle, then you might as well give up in discussions completely. You want discussions? Then stop attacking everyone who has different beliefs than you and listen to what they have to say. Or is that too much for you to handle? If you come into a discussion with the idea in your head that you are the only one right, and everyone else who disagrees with you is a servant of your religion’s quasi-deity of evil, then you really have no business discussing beliefs with other people you obviously don’t respect. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 248 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Methinks you protest too much. Pretty venomous assault. Touche'. You paint with a broad brush there da. Let's see, in your tiny world when you attack someone you are being civil and benevolent. When a Christian says something to you, you see it as an attack and persecution. So that's how it works. The world revolves around you and your superior intellect. Oooook. You make claims about me that you know nothing about. Certainly you did come up with that character assessment (assassination) of me from my postings. You just hate Christians whoever and wherever there are. So far as you leaving Christianity or the church, that's too bad for you. If you would have truly believed, felt and seen the Holy Spirit working in and through your life then you would have stayed. You would know God's peace today. Instead here you are supporting a loser and a loser's cause. But that is a discussion. You are obviously not here for that. You are here to attack Christians and just get in their faces with satan's lies. God's blessings on you. You need it. | ||
| saved_by_grace (saved_by_grace) Intermediate Member Username: saved_by_grace Post Number: 109 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
OK Mr. Satanist, Can you tell me if it makes any difference if someone performs a satanic salute with their right or left hand? | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.74 |
Franklin, “Methinks you protest too much.” Methinks you make personal attacks on other posters too much. “Pretty venomous assault.” Fair enough. “When a Christian says something to you, you see it as an attack and persecution.” Wow, then that must mean that I can’t stand a good 90% of my friends, and virtually every single member of my family…which of course is flat out wrong. No, I don’t really give one hoot what a Christian or anyone else says about their beliefs, it’s when you attack mine, or someone else’s claiming yours is the “right” or “true” belief that tends to bug me. Especially when you criticize those who don’t give you their beliefs, and force you to try to see things from another perspective. So, no, I don’t see that as persecution, but immediately attacking and defaming every non-Christian who comes here is. “The world revolves around you and your superior intellect. Oooook.” IT DOES?! NO WONDER IT’S SO MESSED UP! But wait a minute; wouldn’t you say that’s god’s fault then? Supposedly, your “god” is in control of everything?! Now how did this happen?! (Please stop me if my sarcasm is too much for you…) “Certainly you did come up with that character assessment (assassination) of me from my postings. You just hate Christians whoever and wherever there are.” A.) Your posts speak for themselves. B.) I have met you before, and you and Sharon were the first to begin attacking me as soon as I ever commented on this site. C.) You at first posted as “anonymous” when you first started making your assault on my beliefs. D.) I don’t hate Christians, I hate rabid “convert or die you moron” and “you’re such a moron because you haven’t surrendered to Jesus” types. You have come off as both to me, given your history of assaults on my beliefs. You just seemed ticked because I don’t give special leeway to you because you’re a Christian. Sorry, but I treat everyone the same, religious or not. If a Wiccan where to come here attacking my beliefs, I’d go after them in a heart beat. If a Taoist did the same, I’d do likewise. The only reason that I have bothered to mention Christians in any of my posts is that the only ones who are attacking my beliefs here are Christian. And, I don’t even go after all Christians either; just the ones who have shown me they want to argue or attack my beliefs. I’m sure if someone when to a Christian thread and made tons of anti-Christian remarks, you’d go after them, which is reasonable enough. But this is a Satanism thread, so, if you are going to make attacks on Satanism, or Satanists in general, then prepare for a less than warm response. “So far as you leaving Christianity or the church, that's too bad for you.” You say that my leaving was a bad thing. I certainly don’t view it as such. “If you would have truly believed, felt and seen the Holy Spirit working in and through your life then you would have stayed.” But, you don’t know if I truly believed or not. You are the one who is now making an assumption. “You would know God's peace today. Instead here you are supporting a loser and a loser's cause.” HAHAHAHAHAAHA….are you trying to make me laugh. It was this “god” of yours that left me to dry. ”But that is a discussion. You are obviously not here for that.” No, that’s what you call a “personal attack”, as it doesn’t deal with the topic of Satanism at ALL, and it focuses on a particular poster. A discussion would be, “Why did you choose Satanism?” or “What are the different denominations/sects/branches of Satanism?” or even “Satanic Ethics”. “You are here to attack Christians and just get in their faces with satan's lies. God's blessings on you. You need it.” No, I only attack those who come here attacking Satanism with the same old, worn out material and ridicule those who call themselves “Satanist”. If you didn’t come here looking for a fight, then there wouldn’t be one. As for God’s blessings, I would have to say that I would, according to Christian belief, be very blessed. Its just that my relationship with the Higher Power, call it god, or Brahmin, or what ever, is different from yours. I know this because of how unique mine is. I don’t worship it, nor fear it. That is too close to a “master/slave” relationship. But, to accurately describe that relationship would be impossible with words. So, I won’t even bother trying to explain it, as it transcends religion entirely. But that’s the realm of spirituality. Saved by Grace, “OK Mr. Satanist, Can you tell me if it makes any difference if someone performs a satanic salute with their right or left hand?” Honestly, I have only seen it done with the left hand. But, it’s a predominately LaVeyan Satanist practice. They typically do it with the left hand, as it would be rich with meaning. I think it would have something to do with the concepts of “the Left hand of God”, and how Satanism, along with numerous other groups like Demonolaters and Lucifarians are referred to as, collectively, the Left Hand Path. But, like most every other part of the Satanic Black Mass, its really more symbolic, and holds more personal meaning to the performing the ceremony. Typically, they do the salute to show their allegiance to Satan, which is really an extended metaphor for themselves and their ideals, during the Black Mass or Satanic ritual. But, normally, it’s done with the left hand. But, I’m an independent Modern Satanist, so I really can’t tell you everything about LaVeyan Satanism. But that is what I’ve gathered about the practice. | ||
| saved_by_grace (saved_by_grace) Intermediate Member Username: saved_by_grace Post Number: 111 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
http://lionofjudaministries.tripod.com/occult_hand_signal_called_the_ho.htm Would you consider any of the above satanic salutes? | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.74 |
Saved by grace, Just a few comments on the site that the link brought me too, and a few of its links… “There is a literal hand signal given within the Illuminati-Satanic community.” Source: http://aoreport.com/kingofbabylontruecolors.htm The Illuminati may hate the Church, but they are by no means Satanists. What most of the people there are doing is the “Texan Long Horns” salute. It’s a Texan thing. I was born in El Paso, that’s the only reason I know about it. I know its often mistaken for the Satanic Salute, but a Texan and a Satanist both know better. Note how a few of the people there have their thumbs out? You don’t do that with a Satanic Salute. Also, the fingers that form the “horns” in the salutes I see there are mostly out at an angle. The Satanic Salute usually has the fingers point out straight. The link on the page called: IL Cornuto devil sign” links to the address: http://www.capalert.com/backtoschool/backtoschool.htm. David, Again, you grace the Satanism threads, but I am still trying to figure out why you posted this sermon of yours here, given that this is a thread devoted to Satanism, and in Satanism, we aren't about following the god of the Bible, nor working the will of some guy we never met. So, care to explain why you posted this? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 252 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
God never left you. You left God. Your choice. Thank you for the compliments you gave me and Sharon. Your words are music to my ears. BTW this is a "religious cults and sects" thread. Anyone is free to give their opinions on this or any other thread here. Try to enjoy the life God has given you. You have nothing to look forward to after this life. No God, no savior, no hope. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 13 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.240 |
Franklin, Honestly, you really don’t know what I’ve faced, experienced, or been through. So, give the “you left god” bullshit a rest. I left the Church, I left Christianity, and I left all the baggage I had from it. You only say such because you really don’t understand my understanding of the Divine, but I am sure it is far beyond anything you can honestly contemplate. It is beyond the whole concept of religion entirely. But, as I said earlier, you probably aren’t willing to look at the Divine any other way other than how your Bible depicts it. Sad, I came to where I am by exercising my ability to think for myself, rather than have everything spoon fed to me. And, if this god of yours would damn a person to eternal torment for coming to a conclusion about it that differs from the Bible’s depiction, then it is not worthy of worship. Sound like blasphemy? To you, maybe, but again, I am not going to assume I know everyone of your beliefs or your life’s story, though you chose to act like you know mine. As for everyone here is free to express their opinions, of course they are, but don’t complain when you attack someone and their beliefs and they decide to treat you in kind. And, it would help if you actually brought evidence to back your claims up. I’m saying something that works for the religion you are debating or discussing, for example, if its Islam, use references from the Koran/Qur’an and the Hadiths. Or if it’s Satanism, use the Satanic Bible, (for most Modern Satanists and LaVeyan Satanists), or some relevant document. And, in a discussion about Satanism, a rule of thumb is that Satanists don’t regard the Bible as relevant texts to our beliefs because it isn’t. That would be like saying that the Vedas are relevant texts to Christianity. “Try to enjoy the life God has given you. You have nothing to look forward to after this life. No God, no savior, no hope.” I’m my own savior. You’re concept of Original Sin never existed before the theologian, Augustine interpreted a passage by Paul in the 2nd century. It didn’t exist in Jesus’ day. Jesus never even bothered to speak of it. And, it isn’t even found in Judaism. So, what do I need a savior for? Nothing. Your statement reflects a lack of understanding of my spiritual views, so it really is meaningless to me. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 256 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Original sin? We are condemned to eternal separation from God (good) for OUR sins. God is perfect. Man is not. Man needs a mediator (Christ) for us to be near God in the afterlife. Our sins are forgiven by Christ's sacrifice. You certainly lack a basic understanding of Christianity. You reject something that you know nothing about. I reject evil. I have known evil. I know satanists. They are evil. I am not interested in satanism so far as learning about it. I know enough to stay the hell away from it and it's followers. If I so much as see a satanic book it's going in the garbage or better yet a fire. Satanism has nothing to offer except death, destruction, misery and insanity. Christianity offers life, prosperity, joy and wholeness. I have known and seen evil. I have known and seen good. I choose that which is good. I choose life. I choose God. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 15 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.113 |
Franklin, “Original sin? We are condemned to eternal separation from God (good) for OUR sins.” Sounds like a fault of this “god”, not man. I didn’t ask to come into this world, and no amount of Bible quotes will honestly prove to me otherwise. It sounds like this “perfect god” hates humanity for being…HUMAN! I’m sorry, but I’d rather be true to myself than meet the unnatural expectations of some being I don’t follow or worship…the “Bible God”…and for the record, I refuse to worship or appease the “Bible God” on moral and ethical grounds. I distinguish between God, and the “Bible God”. “God is perfect. Man is not. Man needs a mediator (Christ) for us to be near God in the afterlife. Our sins are forgiven by Christ's sacrifice.” Wow, I though that an omnipotent god would be able to fix this problem without need of a mediator… ”You certainly lack a basic understanding of Christianity. You reject something that you know nothing about.” I understand Christianity quite a bit, that is what lead me away from it. I can’t morally or ethically agree with much of the intolerance that is justified by the Bible, such as the anti-homosexual sentiment, the treatment to non-believers, and the need for a “loving god” to destroy an entire nation of people, just because they didn’t worship it. Nor, can I justify the existence of a loving or just deity with the concept of this “god” carting people off by the millions to a place of eternal torment just because they don’t worship it or follow a particular religion. “I reject evil. I have known evil.” So what would you call the Salem Witch Trials, the Spanish Inquisition, the Crusades, or even the current slaughter going on in the Dufar region of the Sudan? Is any of this the fault of Satanists…nope. “I know satanists. They are evil.” This is why I don’t take you seriously. You already came here looking for a fight, and complain when you get treated as an aggressor. If you come to a Satanism thread assuming Satanists are evil, then how can you really have any meaningful or lasting discussions with those you think are evil? “I am not interested in satanism so far as learning about it.” Then why are you here? If you are here not to learn about Satanism, or discuss it as equals with Satanists, then why bother. It just sounds like you are here to pick a fight, and then complain when its gets turned on you. “I know enough to stay the hell away from it and it's followers. If I so much as see a satanic book it's going in the garbage or better yet a fire.” Good think you aren’t around my collection, but you know they burned books in Nazi Germany, right? Are you against people making up their own minds, exercising their free will? If your “god” has no problem letting people suffer in eternal torment for following a “false religion”, then I don’t see why you really care all that much about people setting themselves up for it. “Satanism has nothing to offer except death, destruction, misery and insanity.” Prove it. “Christianity offers life, prosperity, joy and wholeness.” HAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!! To those who practice it as such. But I’ve only seen the very things you charge Satanism with come from the more fundamentalist sects of Christianity. I’d believe this more readily from a Mahayana or Theravada Buddhist. “I have known and seen evil. I have known and seen good. I choose that which is good. I choose life. I choose God.” I’m sure you think you do. But how can you honestly ever be sure? How do you know you aren’t the one who’s deluded? How are you sure this isn’t one big joke played on humanity just for laughs? Because the Bible “says so?” How are you sure that that isn’t part of this joke as well? Can you really truly be sure of anything? Have you even thought about this? Or do such questions scare you because it challenges the very foundation of what you know? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 260 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.147.111.181 |
The bits I have read of your harangue above, shows what I said above. You know nothing about Christianity. Just a bunch of stereotypical illogic from the rebellious hate Christian cult. I have questioned my Christian beliefs to the core. I remain a Christian. Nothing you can say could ever convince me otherwise. You on the other hand are not a satanist. You are an anti-Christian. You do not believe in a supreme being. You just believe in yourself. Rather than live a life of disbelief. Find something to believe in besides yourself. When you are a god in your own world, you are a danger to the rest of the world. Choose a god, anyone but yourself. Explain to me why you hate the beliefs of your ancestors. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 135 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
I guess DA would know if he's a Satanist or not. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.113 |
Ball of Fluff, you know Franklin knows everything about me. He knows me better than I know myself, and he knows everyone else here better than they know themselves. Oh yeah, why would we ever think otherwise? Franklin, if you know so much about me, then what is the color of shirt I am wearing? What is the color of my room's carpet? What do I believe about Judaism and Buddhism? (Is my sarcasm sinking in yet?) You honestly think I don't question my beliefs to their core? What makes you think such? Divine insight? Did "god" tell you? Again, how would you know? You say I'm an anti-Christian, yet you are an anti-Satanist. Do you think your labels hold weight with me? Anti-Christian, funny, I donate to a Christian charity because 100% of my donation goes to help feed and house the homeless. I don't really have a problem with Christians, I just have a problem with preachy ones who think that by insulting me any my beliefs will get them some heavenly b-points or help my "see the light". But, you clearly refuse to understand this. Do I go after Bee or any other Christian who doesn't call me a monster? No. I have no reason to. Odd, I would utterly hate almost all of my family, oh, couldn't stand my mother or grandparents, yeah...they're....Christian...oh no! (Am I being sarcastic enough for ya?) I think you are honestly scared of me. I don't need a religion or deity to tell me when, where and how to wipe my own ass. Does it really scare you that much that I am willing to live life by my own rules, rather than by the ones you have imposed upon yourself? You think that with such freedom I would go hog wild or something. But I don't. I'm not inclinded to. How am I a danger to the world any more so than you? Just because a religion gives you a moral and ethical set of rules and guidlines doesn't mean that you aren't a threat to society. As for my ancestors, you are assuming that ALL of my ancestors are Christians. You are horribly mistaken. Everyone, regardless of their ancestors origins, descended from pagans. Christianity did not pre-date paganism. You want to know why I'm not a Christian. I have already told you, but I'll be nice and repeat it. I personally, can not, and will not, follow a belief system that I do not agree with nor believe in to begin with. I found that many of my beliefs about morality and ethics conflicted with the teachings I found coming from the Church, such as the Church's stance on non-Christians being hell-bound devil worshippors, magick being evil, homosexuals, the concept of Original Sin, and the like. I couldn't accept the contradiction of a "loving and merciful god" with the idea of eternal damnation for non-believers, as in belief alone determines if you are damned or not. You may accept the Bible as literal truth, but I don't. I can't, and won't. I bear no ill will to my ancestors, I just can't follow their religion. I don't see why I should. You don't seem to understand this. Here is an example of non-believers being slaughtered just because they are non-believers: "They entered into a covenant to seek the Lord, the God of their fathers, with all their heart and soul; and everyone who would not seek the Lord, the God of Israel, was to be put to death, whether small or great, whether man or woman. (2 Chronicles 15:12-13 NAB)" With passages such as that, I can't believe in the concept of a morally just and loving god who has people put to death for believing in another religion. Its a contradiction and insane. I doubt that you may fully understand where I'm coming from, but again, its because I've lived a very different life than you. That, I'm sure of. | ||
| doug (doug) Intermediate Member Username: doug Post Number: 464 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.153.153.178 |
Saved by graceWould you consider any of the above satanic salutes? In elementary school we used to go behind people and make that sign as a joke saying the person has horns. Da666 I think David posted that by accident. He had been responding to a guy with that pasting it on a few other posts and I think he got it here by accident | ||
| sharon (sharon) Member Username: sharon Post Number: 61 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.85.97 |
Fluffy ...are you still posting as the devilsadvocate666 , very funny. Is anyone falling for it? I remember your first post as the devil, you said almost all the same things you had just said to me. It was so funny, asking questions and then answering yourself. Defending your self as the devil. What a hoot. Hope you are having fun. Say hi to satan for me, tell him I loved watching you play, been a trip. oh and by the way you should really stop using this phrase ad hominem crap for both you and the devil, makes it a little to obvious, also there are alot of your other quirks in the devil, so to speak. Just trying to be helpful. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 138 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
I have never posted as devilsadvocate666. I have my own nick and my real name, physical location and profession are well known in the cybercircles in which I travel. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 139 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
IP addresses are not the same. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.0.249 |
Sharon, I am not Ball of Fluff. We don't even have the same writing style. Ad hominem is a latin term used in most boards to refer to a post that is a personal attack on someone. It means, "at person". So, calling a person "evil" or "stupid", or the like falls under the category of an ad hominem attack, as it is an attack on the poster you are referring to, rather than something relevant to the thread. As such a term refers to personal attacks, it would be proper to label them as such, and, since you and Franklin seem to love dishing them out a dime a dozen, I'll continue to use the term ad hominem. Don't like it? Then stop making personal attacks. I would think that such petty insults would be below you, but I just take a look at your most previous post, and come away rather disappointed. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Member Username: sharon Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.77.38 |
Fluffy .. Oh gee, Now I am hurt, a satanist is disappointed in me. Fluff you have exactly the same style. But it was not that that told me. By the way I love it that you use the ad hominem, you should use it more for it tells a lot about you. Franklin .. Have you been dishing it out a dime a dozen, that is awfully cheap.You really must raise your prices. Saying nasty things to the devil and his advocate is not nice, they are people to, oh wait, the devil is a demon and not a person at all. He is not impressed with the attacks on his person. Poor thing, imagine being insulted by the likes of us. I apparently have disappointed 666, try not to be jealous. I am sure that you are a big disappointment also. 666 thought petty insults beneath me, what a high opinion 666 must hold of me, I shall try not to let my head swell. I have read your posts and I must say if 666 does not sing your praises I shall. You are doing great work and I do not find you a disappointment at all. Just the opposite, let me just say KUDOS to you. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 141 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
I'm not DA666. The IP addresses, posting style and post content should clue you in. Many people on the 'net use the phrase "ad hominem". If you do a google usenet search you will find many individuals doing so. I don't have a patent on the term. Anything DA666 has written is something that DA666 has written. Anything Ball of Fluff has written is something that Ball of Fluff has written. 'Cuz we are not the same individual. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Member Username: sharon Post Number: 72 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.110.158 |
Fluff.. You misunderstand me, I do not care if you are a satanist, or just defend them. It is all the same to me. Do you not know that, you defended the satanic pope against me, like the pope of the church of satan needs you to defend him against one old woman. When he attacks Christians, I did not hear a peep out of you, for heavens sakes do you really think you can defend him and then be taken seriously, by him or me. When you attacked me I returned it, I did not see the pope rush to your defence as you did for him. You just can not trust anyone these days. Anyways I will not go to the library and become superchristian, with my new ip address, nor shall I change my style of writing. You should get someone else to write for you now, that would show me. Fluff if you had not of attacked me we would not be doing this, but when you defend the devil and call names I must answer. For when you defend the devil you have chosen a side, and it is the opposite of the side I have chosen. It is sad that we must be on different sides, but that is life. I do regret it though. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 143 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Sharon, Bottom line is I'm not DA666 and he/she is not me. You said I was that person. I am not. And, yes, you did say I was a Satanist- possibly because you thought I was DA666. However, I'm not. I've never attacked you.I did take you to task for inconsistency in your attitudes as posted, where you find fault with others, making personal comments about them, insults, etc, because you disapprove of what they say or thing- then accuse others of attacking you. I've not called you names. Unlike some of the things you've said to me, I've just confined my commentary to things you said. You, however, did not. It's not a matter of sides. This is a discussion forum and I'm discussing. Since you don't know my beliefs, then you don't know what "side" I'm on. Personally, I find this sides taking stuff to be an exercise in them and us black and white mentality and I don't indulge in it. Neither did my Mom or my Minister cousin. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 268 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.175.62.214 |
Like I've pointed out many times before, fluff's and da's views are transparent. They believe more in anti-christianity than anything else. They are anti-believers. And pretty darn religious about it too. Anti-belief is a belief. Atheists are religious. satanists are religious. Scientologists are religious. Pseudo-enviromentalists are religious . They accuse Christians of being religious, dogmatic and shoving our religions down other people's throats but they are masters at it themselves. Da and whatever other names he's used, posts here for one reason only. To tick off the Christian readers. When you point out it is impossible by definition and common knowledge to be an atheistic satanist we are given doublespeak, doubletalk like as if we don't understand the meaning of words of the English language. And fluff comes to the rescue. They are fully qualified to be Christian-baiters. To bad mouth Christ enough to bring out angry reactions of His followers. Well they've received it and then they whine that we are intolerant. To keep things fair and balanced you will continue to get responses to your posts from Christians. Tolerance is a two way street. But they only want tolerance one way. Their way. Fluff we know your beliefs. Da you are either an atheist or a satanist, you can't be both. Make up your mind. Stop your whining when you recieve the response from Christians your comments are directed to evoke. That is what your writings are intended for. It is what you crave. God is good! satan sucks! | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.3.250 |
Sharon, I still find it funny that you haven't understood a single one of my posts ever explaining my beliefs. But oh well, seems that you had your mind made up to make me into something I'm not. Gee, isn't that nice of you. Question? Did your experience with Satanism, assuming you have actually had any, come from the Joy of Satan sect? They make it their life mission to counter the Christians, and they are very demon friendly. They seem to be the closest to what you're describing, but I still think they’d call bull shit on much of what you said, and rightfully so. So then, where does your understanding of Satanists and their beliefs come from? The Bible? And the movie "Bless the Child?" Have you actually read the Satanic Bible? If so, then you should be familiar with the Nine Satanic Statements. What you describe sounds more like in the closet Christian devil worshippers! Oh well, have fun doing what ever, and, in all honesty, Fluff and I aren't the same person. It would be like saying you and Franklin are the same person, a bit one is probably gender confused. Doesn't sound rational? Didn't think so either. But, saying that Fluff and I are the same person is consisting of about the same logic and rationality. Franklin, You clearly never bothered to think about what I posted the first time you and I met. I explained to you how one can be an atheistic Satanist. You want even more proof of others like me? Take a look into the Church of Satan, you know, the LaVeyan Satanists. They are atheists and Satanists all at the same time! Sounds confusing, to you, I'm sure. But if you actually took the time to listen to, and think about their explanations, then it wouldn't be so mind boggling. You whine about tolerance? Hahahahaha....you claim that I'm a monster, attack my beliefs after my first post, and then when I challenge you on it, you call me "anti-Christian"! And, you openly flaunt how you think I am a pawn of this "Satan" of yours, and trash my beliefs every available opportunity you can! I could claim you are "anti-Satanist", but then, you'd probably say something like "You bet I'm against Satan and all of his minions, you evil hell spawn, you!" Now isn't that a nice double standard. You can insult my beliefs all you want because I'm a Satanist, and then when I challenge you to prove anything you claim about me or what I believe, you call me "anti-Christian". If you want tolerance, then you shouldn't be so quick to attack the beliefs of others. Do you honestly expect me not to react with some form of annoyance when my beliefs are being attacked? I am sure you wouldn't be quite or accepting of someone's comments attacking Christianity! So why do you act as though when I am defending my beliefs from your attacks that it is out of the ordinary or unfair? Oh and when have I actually made an attack directly on Jesus? Where have I made an insult on him, personally? Gee, I would have remembered this one...if I actually did it. But you see, I don't have a problem with Jesus, I have a problem with people coming over and lecturing me about how I'm going to hell, acting like assholes to me because I believe differently than them, and then try to guilt trip me into submission. And, as for your dictionary definitions, those dictionaries where written by Christians, of course they will have a less than accurate or complementary definition of Satanists and Satanism. And, if you're still hung up on the name, then that's your problem, not mine. Saying that all Satanists, especially Modern Satanists, worship the devil is like saying Buddhist worship the Buddha. Only a lack of understanding of what that faith believes will lead you to believe that. But you probably don't care either, as they aren't all followers of your religion. Or, at least your brand of it. As for responses from Christians, have you seen me attack, (besides you and Sharon), any of the other Christians who have posted questions to me, in a respectful manner? You see, I attack you and Sharon because you attack me first, and usually do nothing more than make snide remarks at me. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Member Username: sharon Post Number: 78 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.93.56 |
evilsadvocate666 ..Is that the fluffy whinning again, man when will it end, I am sorry that message is just to long to read. I am sure it is fully of fun facts and figures but I am betting I have heard it all before. You realize of course you answered Fluffys questions, bit of a slip up there ah? I am sure that old nasty boots will not hold that against you, or will he. Franklin... Gee it looks like your message is even longer than mine, I do admit I am a little jealous. You know what Our Father says about those who hate us, so most of the rejoicing goes to you. I have to say it is kind of stupid of the devil advocate to give such joy. Think they will get in trouble? I did read your message though, wonderful. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 146 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.107.60.82 |
I've said nothing about my beliefs, save that I do have them. So that right there is not anti belief. And, no, you do not know what they are. I've not shared them with you and every bit of speculation you have posted about them was completely untrue. I have also quoted CS Lewis in an approving manner, and referred to, with love and respect, to my devout Christian Mother and my cousin who's a Minister. So, obviously I am not anti belief. My only point that I'd made at all was that if someone wants to reach anyone else about their message, that bitching them out will not help. Period. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 147 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.107.60.82 |
No, Sharon, DA is not me. He composed his post all by himself. This may be due to the fact that Franklin addressed both DA and myself in his post so it is completely logical for DA to respond. Feel free to look at the IP addresses. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.66.172 |
Ah Sharon, yet another non sequitor from you. You're right, I did post a few facts that you probably heard before, yet, you never bothered to actually consider. You see, I have a feeling that you not only decided what I am long ago, before you actually had much of a chance to get to know me at all, and that you don't realize how much the "us versus them" mentality of yours drives people from your faith in the first place. That kind of mentality places damn near everyone who isn't exactly like you, in the role of foe. I answer fluff's questions because she ask honest questions, not loaded questions like you or Franklin. Every time I do answer a question from you or him, it often, almost without fail, the response if either ignored, or met with an attack. After about 3 or so of these, do you honestly think I'll answer any more of your questions? Do you think that any reasonable person would treat someone kindly after being harassed by that person multiple times, and with all the claims you make about my beliefs, and me personally, you have yet to provide a single scrap of evidence to prove your claims. As for the slip up, who said it was a slip up. You got the point, right? And, pretty much everything you have claimed about my beliefs and me personally has been nothing but a load of bull shit. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 271 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Sharon, thanks for your thoughts. Wherever you are on factnet, it is a pleasurable and learning discussion. Thanks for your posts. And thanks for keeping up the good fight while I was offline. May God be with you!  | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 272 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Da. What is there to discuss about satanism? satanism is evil. There is nothing you could say or write that would convince anyone otherwise. And if you are a satanist, then YOU are evil. What more is there to discuss? End of discussion. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.3.67 |
Franklin, "Da. What is there to discuss about satanism?" I'll use your post for examples that could make for some discussion. Of course, these are examples, and they would probably stir up some reasonable amount of debate if someone actually started them up. "satanism is evil." Topic 1: Why do you believe Satanism is evil, and while you're at it, how does one define evil? Is it a subjective concept, or an absolute, and if it is an absolute, then how do you know your interpretation is the right one? (Usually, the longest lasting discussions ask an open ended question like the ones I just listed above.) "There is nothing you could say or write that would convince anyone otherwise." So you come here to insult and pick fights with any Satanist around, I see. Now you claim I'm here to piss off Christians why? Looks like you're here to piss off Satanists. "And if you are a satanist, then YOU are evil." Topic 2: What makes a person "evil"? Their belief system or their actions, or both? Again, how does one determine this? How do you think the person of the respective belief system in question views your belief system and actions? "What more is there to discuss?" It just takes a bit of imagination to think of something, and initiative. "End of discussion." I'll end this with a quote of yours, "You paint with a broad brush". You paint Satanists with a very broad brush. (Message edited by DevilsAdvocate666 on January 24, 2005) (Message edited by DevilsAdvocate666 on January 24, 2005) | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 274 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.138.175.148 |
Your question of what is the definition of evil is like the statement "it depends on what your definition of "is" is. Doublespeak. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 149 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Anything can be discussed- whether one thinks the thing is good, bad, valuable or worthless. One can discuss the elements and factions of a thing- in this case, Satanism. One can do so from a pro standpoint. One can do so from an anti standpoint. One can do so from a neutral standpoint. One can editorialize or one can just post statistical data. Still, though, that is all discussion. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) New member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.0.181 |
Franklin, the point is, you can have a discussion on anything and everything. And, I am asking you, define "evil". Its not "double speak", and given that you have used it to label me oh so many times, you should be able to define "evil". | ||
| sharon (sharon) Member Username: sharon Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.72.37 |
Frankin... Nice to have you back. As you can see the satanist still do not know who satan is, or what he wants or even that he is evil. Would it not be nice if this was true? Could you imagine a Christian saying to a satanist , I am a Christian but I do not believe in Christ, I do not know what he wanted, was he good or evil? I am not sure that he even existed, but I am a Christian anyway. It would be funny if it were not so sad. evils advocate... you did not answer questions that fluff asked you you answered questions I asked her, wow, are you confused or what. I must say if this is the evil we must battle I am feeling better and better about it, thanks. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.239 |
Sharon, The “evils advocate” goes quite a ways in showing me your personality. A rather conceited way to address someone, I’d have to say. But of course you don’t give a damn. Apparently, everyone has to believe your way or they are a hell-bound monster, and as such, you shouldn’t have to show them any form of civility or respect, even though you complain about being shown disrespect. Rather ironic. But not to worry, it is “Christians” like you that helped make the transition from Christianity so much easier. And for those questions directed at Fluff, which ones are they, where they still when you thought Fluff and I were the same person? I figured that much of those questions would be directed at me, or dealt with me anyway, so, if it’s a question about me, even if it isn’t asked directly to me, I’ll probably answer it. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 28 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.189.66 |
But not to worry, it is “Christians” like you that helped make the transition from Christianity so much easier. And?? Like we give a shit. Don't let the door to salvation slam your ass on the way out." You should be a public speaker, encourage more people to "come to the light". With the amount of compassion you show, you could set a great example for everyone to follow. "Sheesh, supposed to cry into our beers over Satanists who hate us..." I don't hate Christianity, or Christians in general, I just hate YOU. "Dream on Asshole." And you can shove your fundy rhetoric up yours, prick. "Evil creeps such as yourself will find any reason to hate Christianity, so here's a few more excuses ex gratia." Evil creeps? Wow, great way to describe folks like your self who hang around chat rooms, attack people for no real reason, sounds like you are the one with baggage and hatred oozing from your pours, not I. And, with the example of Christianity you, Franklin, and Sharon set, no wonder so many people don't even approach Christianity. I think you do more harm to Christianity that I could ever dream of. You seriously think I hate Christians, no. I hate people, not religions. If you're a nice person, I don't have a problem with you. But you're a prick, and I hate you because you're a prick. Not because you're a Christian. I'd still consider you a prick even if you were a fellow Satanist. "Doesn't anyone find it more than ironic and very telling that Satanists nowadays have far more in common with their secular/liberal/humanist and supposedly tolerant "friends"." Ah, attacking the "left", and the "infidels". How sad...so, in addition to finding fault with non-Christians, you go after those who don't share your political belief either. Very sad...you must be a disciple of Ann Coulter or Rush Limbaugh, or....Jerry Falwell. NEXT! "It shows you very clearly which way society (under the left) is heading - HELLBOUND." Funny, all branches of government are under the control of the Bush Administration, and Bush has another term in office, I seriously doubt that the country is under the control of the "left", unless you consider Bush and his administration "leftist". | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 288 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.73.104.62 |
They hate Christians who kiss the butts just as much. So it doesn't matter what you say to an satanist/atheist. You'll get nothing but hate in return. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.189.66 |
Anone, I am a reasonable guy, but when you come off making insults, then I see no reason to show you any kindness. Franklin, Going around and insulting people, regardless of their beliefs just ask for flaming. I thought you would realize that by now. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.189.66 |
Again, Franklin, can you honestly prove anything you claim about Satanists? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 289 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Here's the deal. You're probably a nice guy. Educated. I have no personal malice towards you. And I hope you have none against me. So far as hate. I don't use the "H" word. Don't believe in it. My Lord Jesus Christ does not give me the right to hate anyone because He tells us all to love our neighbor. I don't like what you say and believe in but I don't hate you. I can't. Because I love Jesus I will obey Him. But you should realize that calling yourself a satanitic/atheistic is a very offensive category to any Christian. What I find offensive my gut reaction is to deal with it in short order. Same as you do. I'm fine with letting you have your say. Least you don't call yourself a Christian/Atheistic/satanist. Then I'd have serious problems. (Actually, atheistic/satanist makes more sense than a mormon who thinks he's a Christian too.) I respect your right to your belief. As long as it doesn't interfere with my right. Here, on factnet, we come here to discuss, debate and confront each other with religious issues centering around the dilemna of dangerous cults in the world. And yes, it can become heated. Big deal. We're all adults. We can handle it. It's the internet. I'd be interested to read how you can be a atheistic/satanist in short prose. But don't expect me to take your belief seriously or accept it with arms wide open. If you are involved with a atheistic/satanist cult controlling people then I will do everything I can to shut that cult down. My upbringing tells me that atheists and satanists are people without morals. I've never met anyone that would change my mind on that. Like I've said here before, I would never hire you as a babysitter for my children. Atheism and satanism are the direct opposite of Christianity. One side trying to crush the Christian church. Other side trying to convert the other peaceably. So lighten up. You can have your say. Just don't expect me not to debate it nor to accept it. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Member Username: sharon Post Number: 92 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.12.77 |
devilsadvocate666 ...Here I will show you how wrong you can be about a thing, the evilsadvcate was a thing that happened when I pick up your name for copy and paste. I find it easy and quicker to just copy it, but I did not see that I had not picked up the d. until it was already in the box. That d is the only thing standing between the devil and you. So what you took for a nasty insult and a look into my personality, was an accident, and while I thought it a funny accident I guess you did not see the humor in it. You did realize of course that the Devil actually has evil in him. So if you could be so wrong about this, could you not be wrong about other things? Since you are representing the devil here I would guess that you should not be offended by being called evils advocate for that is what you are , why are you offended by that? DO you not want to be on the side of evil? Sure would not mind some help on this side. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 154 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Maybe you could just call him by his posting nick. That might work. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 31 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.148 |
“My upbringing tells me that atheists and satanists are people without morals. I've never met anyone that would change my mind on that. Like I've said here before, I would never hire you as a babysitter for my children.” Atheists just don’t believe or don’t worship a higher power. It has nothing to do with their moral character, it has more to do with their belief in a higher power or not, t least in the traditional sense of the word. “Atheism and satanism are the direct opposite of Christianity.” Maltheism is more of an opposite of Christianity than Satanism. Really, it is. The core beliefs of maltheism is the deity of the Bible is a malign entity and Satan doesn’t even appear in their beliefs. “One side trying to crush the Christian church. Other side trying to convert the other peaceably.” I have yet to meet a single Satanist who is bent on the destruction of Christianity. More often, they just chose to stay as far away from it as possible. Many Satanists would rather not deal with Christians, especially given how popular culture depicts us as monsters that eat babies and all. “So lighten up. You can have your say. Just don't expect me not to debate it nor to accept it.” Same goes out to you. Understand that I don’t falter in my beliefs easily, and you’ll understand why I tend to get somewhat passionate about my defense of them. Sharon, If such was a mistake as a result of copy paste, then you probably would have picked up on it after making about 1 or 2 post with it. But you have made many posts doing the same thing, so I have a hard time believing that you just couldn’t fix it. You already claimed that you found it funny, and I could see how it could be, but I found it to be a mockery. A rather sophomoric joke too. “You did realize of course that the Devil actually has evil in him.” According to Christianity; yes. But, you made a mistake; you assumed I have a Christian view of God and Satan. I don’t. “Evil” is in individuals, not some boogie man hiding underneath my bed. “So if you could be so wrong about this, could you not be wrong about other things?” As you could be wrong about how you seem to believe that I worship this “Satan”, perhaps? “Since you are representing the devil here I would guess that you should not be offended by being called evils advocate for that is what you are , why are you offended by that?” Because by claiming I’m “evil”, you make a judgment about my character that is false, and it insinuates that I worship the Christian concept of “Satan”. I don’t. “DO you not want to be on the side of evil? Sure would not mind some help on this side.” You really haven’t made it very tempting to go to “your side” when you claim I’m evil, worship a quasi-deity of evil, and that I am a monster. That doesn’t go over too well for trying to help folks go over to “your side”. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 312 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
da, do you obey the ten commandments? | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 32 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.171.25 |
Franklin, I do not follow the ten commandments,(as I am not a Christian or a Jew) but I abide by an ethical code of conduct all the same. My code of conduct revolves around the concept of doing what I like, as long as I am willing to deal with the consequences and no one innocent gets hurt. As for the "Golden Rule", I practice a variant of that, it is treat others how they wish to be treated. Usually, if a person treats me well, I assume they wish to be treated kindly, and if they attack me, then they ask for such treatment in kind. But, I don't usually go looking for such, so I try to treat those I don't know with a decent level of courtesy and respect. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 313 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
That is why I find Christianity and the life of Christ to be a superior life. Christ commanded us to love our enemies as well as our neighbors. To turn the other cheek when someone slaps us. To forgive everyone of their transgressions against us. Do not return treatment in kind. Be consistent in how we treat everyone. I try hard to do this everyday in my life at home, work and the community. And it works! I see changes in people. I see them lose their anger and become gentler. Part of the problem or part of the solution. It is our choice.` | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 33 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.171.25 |
Franklin, The reason that we Satanists refuse to turn the other cheek is that often can get a person injured more so, or worse. Its one thing to forgive someone, but it another thing entirely to let them keep hurting you. We draw a line in that. I can and do forgive many transgressions, but if someone is constantly trying to inflict harm upon me, I'll do what I can to stop them. And, when it comes to treating people with kindness, its fine to treat those you don't know with kindness, but those whom you know well, and love, they are given my total devotion. Those whom I know want me dead are individuals I would be insane to let near me, much less show them any kindness when they are trying to kill me. I've had individuals who hate me to the point of wishing me dead, and a few have actively tried to take my life. In that senario, I am glad I didn't turn the other cheek, but fought back and sent them running. Ignoring stuff that won't physically harm you is one thing, but when someone attacks you, then turning the other cheek may not be the best idea. I usually try to talk things out before resorting to violence, but I don't look down upon myself for resorting to such, because, for me, its almost always a last resort. Its not that I have anything against those who decide that turning the other cheek is their best course of action, but I just find that it isn't always the best plan of action for me, given the circumstances that I've been placed in before. And, its one thing to forgive and be kind, its another thing entirely to be a door mat. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 161 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Yes, but if you look at what was said and who said it... According to the New Testament, Jesus wasn't shy about standing up to people when he thought the occasion warranted it, like with the moneychangers in the temple. There are some situations where it's best to let something go and other situations where that would not be the best course of action. I can think of both sorts of situations, offhand. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 102 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.110.117 |
devilsadvocate666 ...Ah you did not understand again. I can see that you find it hard to hear anything you do not want to hear but really can you not hear your own words. You say I am a Satanist, but I do not follow satan if he even existed. The satanic BIBLE has nothing to do with Christians. Well as you now know I have read your BIBLE and even the Lords Prayer backward. How can you not know what you stand for and defend it. Do you think that even school children do not know who you stand for. Ask any child over the age of seven who the devil is and what he stands for. THey will tell you evil, I do not call you evil, you do when you call yourself a devil worshipper or Satanist. You can not call your self a devil worshipper and then cry because people call you evil. Do you not see how foolish this is, how it sounds. If you are going to worship satan then be brave about it for in the end you must stand against all mankind, how are you going to do that if you worry that people might think you evil. So here is the question, are you a true satanist? Have you made your pact with the devil. Or is there time to change your mind. You do not like to be thought of as evil, it shows in your words. I do not think you have the stuff to be a satanist. It is not in your heart. If it was you would be proud that people think you evil, you would be doing a good job then. My words would not effect you, and you would not defend yourself against them. You see I know what a satanist is, I have done more than read the satanic BIBLE, know your enemy. I will tell you that this thing you worship, I have met him. In the flesh and up close and personal. That is why I am here. My battle is not with you as a person it is with him. For while I am safe from him for my Father protects me, others are not. I thought the devil was a myth, a story to frighten children. I believed that in my heart. I know that many feel that way now, and will pay the price I paid. So you must understand that when some one says they are a Satanist I know that they stand for evil, but then even a school child knows that. I was not always a bornagain, once I was a believer in nothing, no God , no devil. God showed me that I could not be more wrong. It took 2 seconds to make a believer out of me. It changed my life in every way. Oddly enough he told me to stay out of the churchs. Until a year ago. About the same time I came to this board. I do not know what this means but I do know that you say things that are not in your heart. You say people want to kill you? Why? Let me ask you have you ever seen lighting come up through the floor or ground. This is a unrelated question. Sorry that we are on opposite sides, that may not always be the way it is for I am praying for you. My words to you may sound harsh but I know how hard it is to reach someone who does not believe, so even though I rebuke you I also want you to be saved and see the devil for who he is. Maybe something in your life will change your mind and you will see the truth. I did see you tweak the nazi, now that is not someone full of hate and anger. In the old days we would say your slip is showing. | ||
| alphaandtheomega (alphaandtheomega) New member Username: alphaandtheomega Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.250.98.139 |
Ok i am tired now, welcome me. Now that that is over. I got some bones to pick. First of all Sharon, the whole confusing fluffy and DA are you some kind of idiot? Now as for your posts. You claim that he "can not call your self a devil worshipper and then cry because people call you evil." which i can pretty much agree with, except for one thing... WHEN DID HE SAY HE WAS A DEVIL WORSHIPER? or did you miss the whole thing about "satan" as an extended metaphor? Now with the lot of you. You know what i love most about you all? The fact that you say we are going to hell. Granted you do not say them in those exact words but you say them none the less. You wanna know why i love that so much? Because to say we are going to hell by your dogma, is saying you know what god will want to do with us, which is saying you know gods will. And to say you know gods will is blastphemy, and for that you as well will goto hell. And since i just said you are... i guess i will be joinging you, but hey I was going there to begin with right? Next, why are you so closed minded? You are asking us to be open minded and "see the light" Yet you close off your minds and wont listen when we have something to say about it. But honestally. Whats the fighting about i dont wanna come here to attack you. This IS a discussion as so many of you have pointed out. And me , yeah i gotta admit it i am a modern satanist myself. sue me. So here is my disscussion point for you. We are here under satanism, we use "satan" as a metaphor (at least some of us do) for somewhat of a rolemodel as DA has said. We wanna be the best we can be. Now, what is so "Evil" about wanting to be the best we can be. Oh, and for the record, i am also not DA since i know sharon likes to think people make more then 1 user name to help themselves, but as Fluffy said you are free to look at my IP address and if you really want to know, I do know DA in real life, but he isnt me. Well, reguardless of me saying this you are still prolly gonna go out there saying "they are the same they are the same!!" oh, and yes i am a new member too, i just signed up today, again sue me. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 35 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.6.162 |
Sharon, I've read the Satanic Bible, cover to cover. There is no Lord's Prayer in there. That was a myth created by individuals who think we are some form of insane Christian devil worshippers. And, I have not ONCE said you are a Satanist. Why would I dare give YOU such an honor! You don't even realize what it means to be a Satanist, and you are a self proclaimed Christian, so why would I call you a Satanist, when clearly you're not? Oh, and of course the Satanic Bible has nothing to do with Christians, and why? It has to do with the simple fact...that....WE SATANISTS ARE NOT CHRISTIANS! I NEVER ONCE said I was a devil worshiper, though I do know a few theistic Satanists who take Satan or Lucifer as their patron deity. And they are nothing like how you describe either. You're comments come from ignorance of my beliefs, and I don't see the need to re-explain them to you, over and over and over again. You DON'T listen. You make NO attempt to understand what I am saying. I see no reason to honestly even respond to you any more, as it’s ALWAYS the same response with you: "Why do you worship Satan? Why do you complain about being mistreated, you are a servant of evil, after all. Why don't you convert, you moron. Etc" You claim I'm not a real Satanist, yet you still have proven you lack even the most basic knowledge of Modern Satanism, or even Traditional Satanism. You couldn't make such a judgment anyway, as you haven't a clue as to what we as a whole believe. It would be like me saying you aren't a real Christian. Sounds absurd, for me to claim you aren't a real Christian? If so, then you realize how I see your comment. Deals with "the Devil"? Are you serious? You sound like you got your info about Satanism's rituals and rites from the "evidence" of the Salem Witch Trials. All created by NON-SATANISTS! Proves you still don't know even the basics of Satanism. As for my experiences with supernatural phenomena, it’s a family tradition, so to speak. So I have a fair share of experiences. People wish to kill me because I've stood up for what I believe and to them, and they want to slay me for such a transgression. They complain about respect, but I don't respect those who harm the innocent. When you've crossed some of the individuals I have, you'd understand. As for the Nazi, I've dealt with individuals like that on the outside world before. They consider me an abomination, but no love is lost between my self and Nazis. A few of them want me dead too. Guess they should have thought twice about messing with my Jewish friends. As for lightning, I've yet to see it come out of the ground, but have you seen ebon colored fire come from a person? Or caused a person to feel a strong burning sensation with your touch? I have. No devil in sight. How many times have you nearly been killed, and for some reason, survived unharmed. My count is around 35. 8 times in the past year, whether it is nearly drowning in a white water rapid current, or almost plummeting 25 feet into a large crevasse while caving. Looks like what ever is intervening to keep me alive is doing such so it can deal with me personally. Oh, and unless this "god" manifest in a way my mind can understand and perceive before me, I won't buy into dogma or religion, sheerly because I have no objective proof for myself. Personal experiences are one thing, as they are true and affect the individual experiencing them, but they don't work too well at convincing infidels like I. (Message edited by DevilsAdvocate666 on February 03, 2005) | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.8.15 |
devilsadvocate666 .. Wow and you even edited it to. I do thank you for your message, by the way you had better go back and read your own messages and you will see that you do call yourself a satanist, but then one can not expect a satanist to remember if he said he was a satanist or not. Almost killed 35 times last year, you really are hated, even the nazis hate you. Good heavens you are not every popular. You have catholic and Jewish friends, and they know you are a satanist? Sorry if I hurt your feeling, just wanted to know something about you. As I have already told you witchs and satanist can not be compared, satanist all evil, witchs not so much. I am not saying all witchs are good, just that all are not evil. And they do not stand against the human race like you do. Well I must say that since reading your message it is clear that you do not even know who you are or you would not have said that you did not call yourself a satanist, and since you did your words are pointless, for they hold only lies. How sad. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 36 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.3.205 |
Sharon, What you don't seem to understand is that I NEVER CALLED YOU A SATANIST. You claim I've done so, "You say I am a Satanist"-(quote from your earlier post). I call myself a Satanist. You are a Christian. What you seem incapable of understanding is that a Modern Satanist uses Satan as a symbol. Basing what you think of a person's beliefs, which you know nothing about, based on the name of their faith is absurd. It's like claiming that Buddhists worship the Buddha, or Zoroastrians worship their prophet, Zoroaster. Neither religion does such! As for the Nazis, I don't care if they hate me. The feeling is mutual, in case you haven't noticed. And yes, my catholic and Jewish friends DO know of my beliefs, and I have explained to them what I believe. And no, I don't group Witches and Wiccans in the same group, nor do I group Witches, Wiccans, and Satanists in the same group either. All three are of different groups and beliefs. And, to make such a blanket statement that one group is composed of nothing but a collective of evil lunatics is insane. And false. AND I DON'T STAND AGAINST THE HUMAN RACE! WHERE DID YOU GET THAT IDEA?! I know who and what I am. You don't know who I am, and your comment just falls flat on principle. As for you, your posts are nothing but the same repetitive bull shit, and since they are based on stereotypes, I see no real reason to respond. I will now begin to ignore you, as you haven't once proved a damn thing, nor shown that you have even the most basic of knowledge on Satanism; and just make the same ad hominem attacks OVER AND OVER AGAIN. Until you shape up... -Your friendly neighborhood Satanist | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 340 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.73.104.62 |
THE FOLLOWING IS NOT POSTED TO OFFEND, BUT TO ADD SOME LEVITY: Oh, so you're a atheistic satanist? lol. As the church lady would say, aren't you special. Well, everybody's got to be something. Looky here Ellie Mae! This boy here says he's an atheistic satanist. That means he don't believe in God but he worships the devil. He's got 666 tatooed on his arse. Goooolleee! Ain't he something! Has he got horns sticking out of his forehead, Jim Bob? He ought to be in a freak show. Let's call the preacher man. He can excorcize those demons right out of him! | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 163 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Franklin, this was pointed out months ago- that most Satanists aren't deists and that DA666 isn't a deist. Months ago. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Intermediate Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 164 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
Well, DA, Sharon's also accused me of calling her names when I'd not done so. I wouldn't do that. I think the thing to do is just to summarize and put our respective cards on the table. Several non Satanists here do not regard this as just discussion- they believe this is a crusade and a jihad. They believe in Satan and believe it is something to fight. With all that is written about Satan, one can see why. However, this crusade is then brought here with an ends justifies the means type philosophy. Meaning it's ok to bash others, because it's part of the holy war. That if they just discuss this academically,which is what you're supposed to do on discussion boards, that they somehow will be compromising their values which include the fighting against evil and Satan wherever they find it. I actually understand this. I heard enough homilies where the priest inveighed against moral compromise. BUT my point is that treating others not so nicely does not accomplish this. It does not, in fact, strike any blows against evil. I think it's great that Sharon and others are true to their values. I respect that. But I also respect you, DA. I'm not out to get anybody just because I disagree with them. I just think ya catch more flies with honey than w/ vinegar. Even unfiltered organic apple cider vinegar which is extremely good for you and which I hope all of you are taking... Love, Mom | ||
| doug (doug) Advanced Member Username: doug Post Number: 508 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.153.225.211 |
Hi da666 As I see it, Satan can reflect off of all things created but not the nothingness that is not created but defines all things, not the stillness that defines all motion, the silence that defines all sound, the speed where time stops and matter ceases to exist etc | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 37 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.9.92 |
Franklin, you claim you aren't here to offend, but I find that your post is just out right insulting and aimed, though not explicitly stated, at me. So, what are you trying to do there? Ball of Fluff, I think you mean theist, not deist. But, just substitute deist for theist, and then you're right on. But you happen to read these posts, those folks who've been giving me the most crap haven't. As for jihad, I doubt that they are taking up the greater jihad and struggling against their own inner weakenesses to come closer to God, rather, they are taking up a lesser one, and going after those they feel threaten them. I still fail to see how I'm a threat to them though. I probably don't even live in the same part of the country as they do. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 344 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
I'm trying to demonstrate how absurd this discussion board is. How can there be any discussion when you claim the English dictionaries of the world are null and void because they were (according to you) written by Christians? Therefore whatever word you choose can mean something else regardless of what the dictionaries says. You dictate what any word can mean to your advantage. How can there be a reasonable discussion on those terms? There can't be. That is an insult to anyone's intelligence. George Orwell's Newspeak. Hate = Love. War = Peace. One absurdity deserves another. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 38 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.0.191 |
Franklin, I've already explained why I call my self a Satanist, and what the name "Satan" means to many Modern Satanists. As always, you have yet to accept this, as it does not coincide with what your dictionaries say. And yes, I call into question the definition of any dictionary that blankets a group as monsters and evil without doing ANY of the proper research. Still stuck on the name? Suit yourself. I've already explained to you what Satanism is, you just have to either accept, or reject, but at least do some actual research into what Satanism IS. And when I mean research, I mean actually go to a few Satanic web sites, see what they are about, read LeVay's book, The Satanic Bible. Talk to a few more Satanists. Or are you going to rely on stereotypes as your sole source of information on Satanism? Oh, and yes, the dictionaries were written by Christians. If you had a Satanist writing the definition of Satanism, or Satanists for that matter, you'd get a much more different and accurate definition of what we are. But would you trust a definition of Christians or Christianity if that definition where written by a maltheist or a fundamentalist Satanist, or even a staunch Atheist or Nilhist? Probably not. So why do you expect we to trust the definition of a Satanist from a Christian who hasn't bothered to research the faith at all? Going by "the name determines what they worship" mentality, would you say Buddhists worship the Buddha? Or Zoroastrians worship the prophet, Zoroaster? You are obviously still stuck on the name, and no a thing I can do will change that. And unless you do the research, I can't regard much of any of what you say to be anything other than bull shit, when in regards to Satanism, given, you are pulling this out of your ass. P.S. Satan loves you. | ||
| doug (doug) Advanced Member Username: doug Post Number: 518 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 138.89.126.13 |
What's greater than God more evil than the devil the rich need it and the poor have it? | ||
| hannah (hannah) New member Username: hannah Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Nothing! | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 346 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Been there, done that. Been to the satanic websites. Nothing there that would convince me otherwise. Just a bunch of immoral or amoral ( haven't decided witch) wackos in a rebellious mode against society, culture and morality. Seems like their trying to tick off their parents more than they are promoting any legitimate religion. Yes I accept definitions of satanism from a dictionary written by Christians. Other religions are accurately defined. If dictionaries are so out whack then all definitions would be perverted. Not the case. satan hates me and you equally. Difference is: satan can destroy you but not me. I am protected from his wrath, you're not. | ||
| hannah (hannah) New member Username: hannah Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Alpha said, "We are here under satanism, we use "satan" as a metaphor (at least some of us do) for somewhat of a rolemodel as DA has said. We wanna be the best we can be. Now, what is so "Evil" about wanting to be the best we can be." The problem with "wanting to be the best we can" is that it still is not good enough for heaven. The "wanting to" is admirable, but the fact that you still fall short is horrendous. Just think one little sin and how that can hurt someone else. Think of sometime that you have been betrayed by someone you loved. You have pain because of their sin. That can not be allowed in heaven. Would you want to be the only one in heaven in pain? How can you be happy and joyful and in pain at the same time? Jesus gave the only answer that works. Forgiveness and you can't forgive really unless you are on the cross, experiencing the agonizing pain of the hurt and the betrayal and the misundderstanding and the unfairness of it all, and when you are in that position you look down and forgive the one that put you there. In our humaness, we can not do it. The miracle is that God did and made a way for us. When you are willing to go to the cross and you try with all your might to really forgive the one who put you there and you are unable to, Jesus exchanges places with you-- He (give Him all the glory and honor He deserves) finishes the job. You are released- resurrected. No more Pain!!!! Haleluyah! This process requires death. Death of the flesh which doesn't want to die. That flesh is screwing with your mind and trying to make up any justification it can to avoid the cross and death which leads to life. "The message of the cross is foolishness to those who are parishing." The flesh will tell you "just be good", "just try your best", or several other denial tactics (and denial is what? denial of the truth.) Now this ties into something I wanted to respond to that "Advocate" said Advocate wrote in response to Ball of Fire; "As for jihad, I doubt that they are taking up the greater jihad and struggling against their own inner weakenesses to come closer to God, rather, they are taking up a lesser one, and going after those they feel threaten them. I still fail to see how I'm a threat to them though. I probably don't even live in the same part of the country as they do." He defines another "jihad" and this is closer to being right. In fact, many of you so called "Satanists" are a whole lot closer than many so called "Christians". It kind of reminds me of the "left" and the "right", the "stoned" and the "stoners", the "Republicans" and the "Democrats". The deficiencey with this "either or" thinking is that it leaves out "other" options. Remember there are always at least 3 choices to most problems. Yours, mine and God's. Yes, No and Maybe, etc. In fact, it is a priniple of logic that "either or" is a form of illogic. I agree with "Advocate" about part of his statement, that many people want to fight the "jihad" in other people rather than dealing with the bigger problem within themselves. But the "jihad" he describes is still the wrong fight. Just look at the expected outcome: CLOSER to God. Well how close is close enough? Closer than what? Where you were yesterday? Jesus is my Lord, my savior, my EVERYTHING and the Church's (which I am a part of) mate. When we "marry" and "mate" we become "ONE" That is how close I want to be. I want the intimacy of that relationship. The correct fight to make a jihad is the fight for truth against the adversary that opposes truth, to kill the flesh and live a resurrected life. Any other fight is merely a distraction, a detour. One can wonder in the desert for 40 years. One can make a thousand trips around the same old mountain. But every time you come back around, the Jordan is waiting for you to cross over. The only way across the Jordan is: your job- find it!!!!! because you have got to want it- no one can want it for you. Find truth!!! Who or what is Satan? Jesus said to Peter,"Get thee behind me, Satan." So who is Satan? Satan is whoever, whatever opposes truth. He is the adversary to truth. A challenge to you who call yourselves Satanists: Think of the most hurtful thing anyone has done to you (or someone you know). Think about it, remember it(don't deny it). Feel the pain of it. Get into it. Feel all that pain, and betrayal and unfairness. Now forgive them for it. Now evaluate how you feel. Do you feel content? Has the pain left? for good? Don't forgive and forget. Forgive and remember. Do you wish only good things for the offender? Is it possible for you to forgive without Jesus? This is a lot of debate. No one can talk you into truth. Jesus is alive. He is the way and the truth and the life. He is spirit. He is love. The greatest expression of love is forgiveness. It goes like this; "You did this to me. It really, really, really hurt me. I don't think you will ever understand how much it (what you did) hurt me. I wish you could understand how much this hurt me-maybe then you would get it and never do it again. I didn't deserve this. Why do I have to deal with this when you did it?. I'm not going to hold it against you because I love you and I want you." Jesus. Greatful that He Is Risen. Happy Easter every day! Love Hannah. Message edited for spelling errors, probably didn't get them all. The ones I missed are the ones I can't spell correctly. God will forgive me for that too. (Message edited by Hannah on February 06, 2005) | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 39 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.33.98 |
Hannah, You assume that Alpha and I are Christians, or think like Christians. We don’t. The concept of a god that makes humans imperfect, and then sets them before a bar of perfection that is too high for them to reach naturally, then damns them to eternal suffering for naturally failing to reach that bar sounds like sadism in its purest form. Why would I want to worship a deity that sets humans up to fail, then sentences them to eternal torment for failing to meet its insane and inhuman standards. Telling an imperfect creature that it will be sentenced to eternal suffering because it can’t be perfect is something a sadist or a monster would do. Nothing that this “god” can do, short of re-doing the whole system and status of being for its creations will change this. So, this begs the question, why should I, or would I, worship a being that created me to be imperfect, knowing full well that I am going to be imperfect, by the virtue of my existence and circumstances in which I came into existence, that holds up a bar that is impossible for me to naturally achieve, and sends me to eternal pain and torment if I fail to reach that bar? Oh, given, you might say “God sent Jesus to die for our sins, hence, Heaven is attainable”, and I would ask, “Why was Jesus necessary if it was this deity’s idea to create something imperfect, yet hold it up to standards of perfection in which it cannot naturally achieve?” and then you may offer the concept of “grace”, as the answer, that humans, through this deity’s “love” alone, can find a path to Heaven. To this, I ask, “If this deity “loved” humanity so much, then why create them as imperfect being, and then demand they be perfect?” Is it fair to demand such? Does anyone ask to be born with this “death sentence”? And, you might say that “god wants humanity to love it as an act of our own free will”, and I ask, “If our free will is what leads us to imperfection and damnation, going by the Adam and Eve myth, then surely this “god” would have foreseen humanity not worshipping it, but it still gets pissed off, and damns all that don’t follow ONE of COUNTLESS religions, to eternal torment, and expects humanity to be happy about this? If we have free will, then surely this being would have understood the mind set of the very beings it supposedly created. With this knowledge, then why does it insist on torturing its creations for not worshipping it, according to the doctrines and beliefs of ONE religion out of COUNTLESS religions? Doesn’t this seem the least bit suspect to you?” This is my biggest problem with the concept of “follow Jesus because he died for you on the cross”, it just doesn’t make sense to me that such a sacrifice would be necessary if the universe was run by an omnipotent, omni benevolent, omniscient, deity. It would be nice if we could tell those who’ve harmed us that we wish they wouldn’t do what they did to us again, but honestly, when some prick attempts to take my life, my only transgression, apparently, was giving a homeless individual some money for food, and the directions to a shelter. Yeah, I am not about to forgive such an assault on my person, nor will they soon forget my retaliation for an attack on my person with a knife. I see no reason to forgive such a transgression, nor am I inclined to, as such would have had not only irreversible consequences to me, had that individual succeeded, but it would have harmed my family as well. In a way, I actually helped out that individual that night, as they will hopefully be smart enough to learn from that lesson, and not pull something like that again on the next kind stranger that happens by. The world is brutal, and people will take advantage of kindness anyway they can. This is the truth I have learned, this is my truth. I see no reason to let my self be used as a door mat by those who’d think nothing of attacking me to repay my kindness. But I see no reason to hold back my kindness when I feel it’s warranted. Franklin, As you are obviously prejudiced against Satanists and Satanism in general, I see no more reason to waste words with you. You don’t listen, and like Sharon, you will never listen. I will begin to ignore you, just as I ignore Sharon, for neither of you have contributed anything more than personal attacks and anti-Satanist propaganda to this discussion. Smile, Satan loves you. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 351 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Anti-satanist propaganda is God's truth. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son. That whosoever believes in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life! Smile, even though you don't love us, God and I love you! | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 177 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
devilsadvocate666 I call into question the definition of any dictionary that blankets a group as monsters and evil without doing ANY of the proper research. I was curious about this. So, I compared the definitions found in my Webster's New Universal Unabridged Dictionary (1994 edition) to the definition on Wikipedia.org. First, I compared the definitions listed of Christianity as a test word. Christianity Websters: 1) The Christian religion, including the Catholic, Protestant, and Eastern Orthodox religion. 2) Christian beliefs or practices 3) a particular Christian religious system 4) the state of being a Christian 5) Christendom 6) conformity to the Christian religion or to its beliefs or pracitices. Wikipedia: Christianity is an Abrahamic religion based on the life and death by crucifixion and resurrection of Jesus of Nazareth as described in the New Testament. Although Christians generally characterize themselves as monotheistic, the one God is thought, by almost all Christians, to exist in three persons (Gr. Hypostasis), called the Trinity. Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God and the Messiah of the Jews as prophesied in the Old Testament. Christianity encompasses numerous religious traditions that widely vary by culture, as well as thousands of diverse beliefs and sects; over the past two millennia, Christianity has been grouped into three main branches: Roman Catholicism, Eastern Orthodoxy, and Protestantism. It is the world's largest single religion, with over 2.2 billion followers. The term "Christ" is derived from the Greek noun Khristós which means "anointed one," and is a translation of the Hebrew word Moshiach (Hebrew: also written "Messiah"). Christian means "belonging to Christ" or "of Christ". Christianity is characterized by a high number of miracles attributed to Jesus and his followers. Even today, people get healings in his name, and numerous visions are reported. While Wikipedia went into more detail, the definitions are nearly identical. Satanism Websters: 1) The worship of Satan or the powers of evil 2) a travesty of Christian rights in which Satan is worshipped. 3) diabolical or satanic disposition, behavior or action. Wikipedia.org: Satanism is a religious or philosophical movement centered around Satan or another entity identified with Satan, or centered around the forces of nature, particularly human nature, represented by Satan as an archetype. Unlike many religions and philosophies, Satanism generally focuses upon the spiritual advancement of the self, rather than upon submission to a deity or a set of moral codes. In an older sense, Satanism also refers to unorthodox practices within Abrahamic religions deemed by the orthodoxy to be in diametrical opposition to the Abrahamic God. For example, the earliest recorded instance of the word is in "A confutation of a booke (by Bp. Jewel) intituled An apologie of the Church of England", by Thomas Harding (1565): ll, ii, 42 b, "Meaning the time when Luther first brinced to Germanie the poisoned cuppe of his heresies, blasphemies, and Satanismes." As Martin Luther himself would have denied any link between his teachings and Satan, this use of the term Satanism was primarily pejorative. Many Satanists find such use of the term offensive. Modernly, a large number of Satanists eschew what might be considered traditional religious beliefs, attitudes and worship, in favor of more egoistic worldviews and practices such as magick. There are various kinds of Satanists in modern society. The main trends can be (adequately but not completely) summarized into: Sat/Tan, the Dark Doctrines type Satanism Setian Satanism LaVeyan Satanism Other forms (e.g., The Imperial Satanic Order, some Gnostic sects, Order of Nine Angles, Order of Mars) Devilsadvocate is right, there is a vast difference in definitions. Websters just defines Satanism as evil and diabolical. Whereas Wikipedia defines Satanism as a religion in its own right, rather than merely being in opposition to Christianity. | ||
| hannah (hannah) New member Username: hannah Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
devilsadvocate: I read your post above. First, why would you "assume" that I would think for a minute that you and Alpha were Christians? Second your whole statement is based on the faulty premise that God created man as an imperfect being. So far you are inaccurate and illogical in your thinking. Being the Satanist that you are. I expect you to lie, and it doesn't surprise me that you believe your own lies. When the truth shows up (and it has) you get all messed up. If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. You're toast when it comes to standing up. For if you wanted truth, you too could have it. You are simply a desparate, little whinner that is in need of attention. You want the control. But you will never get it. The best you can ever hope for is the illusion of control. You want the control because your lives are so out of control. You are basically very, very weak and too prideful to admit to it. Who you mad at?- forgive them. Forgive me, if you can. YOU'VE JUST BEEN JUDGED. For those of you reading that want the truth, God created man in his own image. That image was perfect. God loved man so very much that he gave him choice. You Satanists should be proud of our founding (Christian) fathers they even protected your choice of religion. You are free to chose who you will worship. Now we see what Christians have done for you. What have you Satanists ever done for anyone but yourselves? Satanists, you are a joke! You don't have anything but your illogic. Some people are afraid of your types and that must give you a high. But not us real Christians. We know who and what you are. You are just smoke and mirrrors. Nothing to fear in the slightest. No power. Weak little whimpy girlymen. Fakes and phonies. In fact you are the ones who are fearful. FULL of fear of death. Too bad. So sad. Thank our Lord, Jesus for the choice he gave us. Hannah. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 353 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
girleymen! Ahnold couldn't have said it better! | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Junior Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 40 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 4.185.171.124 |
Hannah, "devilsadvocate: I read your post above. First, why would you "assume" that I would think for a minute that you and Alpha were Christians?" Based on how you addressed us with Christian concepts, as if those concepts mean a thing to us. Concepts such as "sin", "grace", and "salvation", all key in Christianity, are non-existent in Satanism. To address me with those concepts as though I believe in them by virtue of the fact I am a Satanist is to address me as a member of the Judeo-Christian world. I'm not. "Second your whole statement is based on the faulty premise that God created man as an imperfect being." Your "god" supposedly created man in its own image, and made the mistake of giving it free will and demanding blind servitude in the guise of "love" and "worship". But, this is going by the concept that this "god" of the Bible made anything or even exists. Neither which I'm inclined to believe as I've seen no objective proof. "So far you are inaccurate and illogical in your thinking." How so? By your logic of an infallible god? I really fail to see how its illogical, blasphemous yes, but illogical no. "Being the Satanist that you are. I expect you to lie, and it doesn't surprise me that you believe your own lies." Nor does it surprise me that you swallow that kind of trash that a loving god creates imperfect beings just to set before impossibly high standards and then sentences them to eternal torment just because they don't live up to par. Hence, such a being would naturally be a sadist. But at least I challenged what I was taught and arrived to my truth on my own, rather than others telling me what to believe and what is "truth" often, their own opinion and motivated by their own desires. "When the truth shows up (and it has)" Objectively prove this. "If you don't stand for something, you'll fall for anything. You're toast when it comes to standing up." Why? Because your man-created image of a god will come to smite me? I stand for something, I stand for many things. One of them being the celebration of the fact I can think for myself, and that no collection of authoritarian tyrants, be they "divine" or mortal can take that away from me. "For if you wanted truth, you too could have it." But how do you define "truth"? Is truth something you find in a book, or is it something you find for yourself, often within yourself? How is one to interpret what they find. One man's truth is another man's lies. Its a matter of your perception. "You are simply a desparate, little whinner that is in need of attention." You honestly don't even know who I am. But, since you are making such puerile attacks on me, I'll return the favor. You are a blind, dim-witted imbecile. You are afraid of new ideas, and thus attack them. You need to feed the "holier than thou" complex you have been nursing, so you decide to go after some "sinners" and give them a rant about how they are misguided or delusional. Then you probably get self-righteous when they decide not to take your shit. Sorry, I've met more than a dozen of folks like you, and all of them have failed. "You want the control." Over myself, yes. Over you, no. But, you probably want to exert control over those around you, make them "fall into the fold" so to speak. "But you will never get it." Neither will you. "The best you can ever hope for is the illusion of control." As do you. But at least my "illusion" gives me results that I can be content with. "You want the control because your lives are so out of control. You are basically very, very weak and too prideful to admit to it." Ah, more judgments? I decided to take control of my life, you moron. My life, while I was a Christian, WAS OUT OF CONTROL. It was ruled by the masochist guilt trip philosophy that I'm a monster by virtue of birth, and that I am somehow brought this upon myself. I woke up, and realized that this was killing me spiritually, and cut it out, like a cancer. You wouldn't know jack shit about my characte |
