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Message |
    
ree110 (ree110)
New member
Username: ree110
Post Number: 3
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 216.241.142.133
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 9:15 pm: | 
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If you were like me; one of the many, many children to come out of the Faith Assembly movement,...how did this background shape your life and what is your view of God today? If you've come to know Him apart from and despite any negative experiences at F.A., how has He brought healing to your life? I believe God wants to do a work in the lives of us "2nd generation F.A.'ers", and restore the years the locusts have eaten. He is so far greater than anything we could hope or imagine and it's because of who He is and what He did on the cross--not by any merit of our own or by living up to all the laws we've been put under or places ourselves under....Grace, how sweet the sound!
Marie |
wheeler (wheeler)
New member
Username: wheeler
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 216.241.131.104
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 21, 2004 - 10:12 pm: |
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Well I'm not sure if this qualifies but I seem to have developed a certain affinity for station wagons and vans. |
ree110 (ree110)
New member
Username: ree110
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 216.241.137.252
| | Posted on Friday, December 24, 2004 - 8:46 am: |
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Perchance brother, has your love for
objects with wheels carried over from
the days of stroller racing behind the
partitions as well?
Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.
Prov. 22:6 |
duncan (duncan)
New member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 11:28 am: |
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I was one of those kids that grew up in F.A. My parents were introduced to Dr. Freeman in the very early 70's in Alabama. He and June have been in our house numerous times, and we have been to their house many times. We moved to Indiana in 1978 to attend church. That is the same year I started 1st grade. I can remember as a young child that there was a wonderful feeling in our fellowship. My dad would preach on Sunday mornings every few months, and I always wanted to preach too. I would even ask Bruce Kinsey if I could preach (he always scheduled the Sunday morning preachers.) As I got older, I was subjected to many of the same things other F.A. kids were at school. I had to leave the room for Christmas parties (not birthdays - my family always celebrated birthdays), puppet shows, movies, etc. It was difficult, but I survived. Unfortunately, many of my old friends from those days couldn't handle things when they turned 18. Many got pregnant (or got someone pregnant), many got into drugs, some got their driver's licenses taken away for drunk driving. It seemed to me as I got older that many parents were trying to take their kids OUT of the world, rather than teaching them not to be OF the world.
As my spiritual maturity has grown over the years, I now understand the solid foundation I received in the Word (even though it was hard for an 8 year old to sit through a 2-hour sermon). I have gone back and listened to many of Dr. Freeman's tapes as an adult and can se a distinct difference between the early and mid-70's vs. the 80's. In the 70's, the church was being equipped to go out and minister. In the 80's you were looked down upon if you moved away. People thought you were going to hell. I agree with some of the others that Dr. Freeman changed over the years and introduced a lot of legalism I remember as an elementary student having to throw away my running shoes because Dr. Freeman said that the homosexuals were wearing them. The doctrine was great, but the daily applications went terribly wrong. I have to lay much of the blame on the members that took everything that came out of his mouth as pure gospel, rather than his interpretations. As such, the peer pressure from within became the driving force behind much of the problem
As was my family's intent from the start, we moved back to Alabama in 1986. My personal life strayed from God to some degree while I was in college. However, after I got married and had children of my own, I have been able to build on a solid foundation and have been able to discern much of the good I received from the bad. Although, I have had some difficult times and had many questions, God has kept me close to him. I have been able to avoid the bitterness that has taken hold of many of my old friends.
I thank God for my salvation and for the teachings I have had the priviledge of sitting under. I continue to be interested in what has happened to many of the folks I used to know. If you would like to discuss anything further with me, please feel free to continue this discussion.
God Bless. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 1
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 222.144.92.148
| | Posted on Monday, March 07, 2005 - 11:36 pm: |
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Hi!
My name is Healed, because I have been Healed, of all the ridiculous mess that freeman and his freaks taught me as a kid. IT HAD BEEN ERASED from my head by putting distance from him and all the hell he put me thru. Yeah duncan, maybe you still go along with it and had a good childhood from it, I however didnt and suffered greatly. Well not anymore, yeah maybe there is some residue, but Ive gotton stronger. I think there should be a support group for those of us that suffered, I really do. Dont need to feel different no more. Freeman was a wacko! a cult! |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 3
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 219.167.189.185
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 08, 2005 - 5:51 am: |
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Healed would like to add one more thing: its freaking amazing how when u type HOBART FREEMAN in any search engine, his name comes up under cult, brainwashing, abuse, etc. I mean, gee, uh, perhaps this dude was into something abnormal? Children dying under his watch? Hello? Im totally ASHAMED of having anything to do with this guy or his group! |
micah (micah)
Junior Member
Username: micah
Post Number: 44
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 12.207.73.152
| | Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 7:22 pm: |
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hey there healed, I totaly know, and i would totaly love to have a suport group for those of us that were raised in that church, the stuff that we saw as kids was pretty crazy, and because we were kids we thought it was "normal" it has taken me a long time to try and figure out what "normal" really is, and it is not the way I was raised, thats for dang sure,
I hope you are still around, would love to hear a relply, |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 5
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 219.164.23.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 8:48 am: |
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yeah sure man Id like to see a support group started, I know I have suffered because of it, I dont blame everything on it though. Im totally done with it, you know Im not here to knock Christianity or none of that or anyones faith. Im just sayin, no need for anyone to be confused or feel ashamed or different because of it. I went on into other things in my life but I still got family in it and Im tired of it to be truthful. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 6
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 219.164.23.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 9:04 am: |
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Also Id like to ad that I have read alot of the recent post by people. They seem to be all caught up in defending this or that, Freeman or Copeland. I am coming from a different direction. I dont care to understand about charasmatic healing or all that. What I am addressing is the issue of damage or people that were abused etc. This has taken time to uncover, layer by layer for me because out of shame, I didnt want to accept or deal with it. Freeman obvisouly thought that he was some person ordained by a higher power, in my opinion like a dictator. We live in a country were freedom of relegion is allowed but Freeman or the Koresh or Jones people take it to the extreme, but even then the goverment is hesitant to prosecute until its too late because of our freedom of relegion. Freeman abused this privilige in my opinion. When children started dying,something in me would of clicked and put on the reins, but his movement grew until a mindset was created. You dont call this a cult? It was out of control because Freeman was at the top of the pyramid, there were no checks or balances like in other denominations. What Freeman said was gospel. I mean after 2000 years of Christanity, somebody comes along named Freeman and suddenly has found this new "truth"? Isnt it parallel to what Koresh did? Through extreme study and diligence in any relegious discipline, I think you can find hope or whatever your looking for but extremism is the sick side of it. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 8
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 61.126.137.49
| | Posted on Wednesday, March 30, 2005 - 11:55 pm: |
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I think a thread to share, vent or whatever, or even a separate site for support, for those of us who went through the FA or a satelite group expereince, for the kids, youth, could do no harm. Im not talking about therapy, Im not qualified for that, Im just saying when I found this site and other post on some other dudes site, I felt something I needed to feel. I was floating around out there all alone but this was always in the back of my head, the FA thing. My story is a little more complex than just FA, so I wont share here. Thats why maybe a separate thing would work better, folks could share or vent what they done, why they felt the way they do, etc. Anyone agree? |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 9
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 61.126.137.49
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 12:02 am: |
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and last post for now...lol, you know I go on with my life, and do as most folks do, I dont reject all the FA taught, but there is an element of shame i guess for me, or feeling different, that resurfaces sometimes, its not something I can erase, I mean FA was a big part of my childhood even though I spent most of it rebeling against it, maybe there are others out there like me, Id love to see it here, and read it because you can only run from it for so long. I have accepted alot of it and Im happy to have found this site. |
duncan (duncan)
Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 69
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 2:36 pm: |
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Healed,
Thanks for your continued posts. I've been doing a lot of thinking about the things you've said and how I should respond. Like you, I rebelled to a great degree while I was a kid at FA, although mine was done where I wouldn't get caught. I would secrectly attend functions at school that I knew I shouldn't. I once forged my parents signature so I could go on a field trip to a sex-education center in Ft. Wayne. At school, I had a mouth like a sailor. During this rebelious period, I was still being convicted by the Holy Spirit. When I was 11 years old, I knelt down in my bathroom floor and ask Jesus to forgive me and come into my heart. Even then, I still struggled with trying to fit in. I remember buying things for myself during the holidays, so I could tell my friends at school that I got it for Christmas.
My point is that no one could live up to the expectations that FA would put on them. The Bible states that we are saved by the grace of God and faith in Jesus, not because we didn't go to doctors or wore certain clothes or went to a certain church.
I noticed that you mentioned abuse several times in your posts. I'm curious if you are talking about mental and verbal abuse or about physicalor sexual abuse. I know a man named Al that was charged, and I believe convicted, years ago for sexual abuse. I was a victim of sexual abuse by a 16 or 17 yr old when I was about 9 or 10. Fortunately, God has healed my mind of those episodes, and I have no anger or hatred toward this person. In fact, when I think about it, it's almost like I read about it in a book and that it didn't really happen to me. As for the guy, I learned later that he was one of the victims of the man named Al and has had some problems in life as an adult.
I hope this post helps you in some way. It may seem from some of my posts that everything in my childhood was great and wonderful. My home life was great, but I did have to deal with some pretty serious stuff outside of my home. The thing that I have to hold onto is that God is always in control. We may not know why He lets certain things happen, or why some people were allowed to die, but we have to look forward and know that He loves us and has something special for us. We may not realize it now, but I guarantee that the next life will be worth it.
God Bless. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 10
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 61.126.137.49
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 7:17 pm: |
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no Im not talking about sexual abuse, If that went on at FA...well thats one more thing to chalk up to its reputation as a cult. I personally never attended FA, I attended a satelite church. The abuse Im talking about is living in fear for listening to a radio or sneaking around like you mentioned. THis is more of a parental issue perhaps, but FA or Freeman was responsible for the programming of these parents. I got the living you know what beat out of me for doing what most kids consider normal. It affected me when I left home at 18, I had like PSTD I think...lol. If you were abused by some dude at FA, well thats terrible. First I have heard of that kind of thing! |
duncan (duncan)
Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 70
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 68.113.113.47
| | Posted on Thursday, March 31, 2005 - 8:33 pm: |
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Healed,
I'm glad you weren't referring to that kind of abuse. However, getting worn out by your parents is a pretty common thing for a lot of kids all over, not just FA. I had to deal with that too. I'm sorry that this is still affecting you after all these years. I wish I had something magical to say to you, but I don't. The only thing I can say to you is to do what I and others have done - you have to move on with your life. We can't go back and change the past. Dr. Freeman is dead, and we are not kids anymore. If we let it eat at our insides, it only makes us miserable.
It's not very profound, but it's all I've got.
I hope you have a great evening. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 11
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 61.126.137.49
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 12:05 am: |
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Yes I know you dont have any magical words and after reading some of your post, you are obvisiouly still attached to FA and all that goes with it. I dont have time for your kind, your still defending it and you only bring more confusion to those of us trying to reach closure. There is a differnce between getting worn out as you put it and physical and emotional tramua. Its people like you who just sweep things under the rug, most likely because you were sheilded from the more extreme part of it (wasnt your dad a minister?)and disqualify anybody speaking out against it. I think alot of people would like to speak up about what they have been harboring inside all this time. People have been getting on with their life as you put it, by doing just that, moving on with their life without closure. |
duncan (duncan)
Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 71
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 8:48 am: |
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Healed,
Thanks for the response.
I'm not trying to sweep anything under rug regarding FA. I know that a lot of kids had to deal with a lot of stuff. Yes, my dad was a minister, but I think that made him harder on me. I'm not sure how much I was shielded from, but I'm sure I was to some degree.
As for trying to disqualify you, or anyone speaking against FA - That's not my intention, and I'm sorry if you got that impression. I think I understand how other kids feel, because I was a kid and I have many friends that didn't get over it as easy as me. I'm interested in what others have to say.
Finally, I have to disagree with you that I am still attached to FA. I am attached to God and all that he has to offer. I have been attending a Baptist church for my entire adult life. That's a pretty long way from FA. I have mentioned in several of my posts about listening to old sermons. My reason for doing that is not because I have some attachment, but because I want to hear for myself what was said. As kids, we picked up some things, but as an adult, I can discern and understand better. I have been listening to see what was taught and why it made people go over the deep end. An example I recently heard was on a Theology sermon where Dr. Freeman said that parents shouldn't send their kids to college unless they wanted to lose them. That was the dumbest, most ridiculous thing I have ever heard. I went to college, along with a lot of others, and still remain a Christian. The point is, I don't agree with a lot of what was taught. What I do agree with is the Bible.
Healed, I am trying to respect your views, and I hope that shows in my posts. I would like to ask you a question, though. I know you had a messed-up youth, but do you consider yourself saved? In other words, are you a Christian?
Thanks for the dialogue. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 12
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 218.47.87.11
| | Posted on Friday, April 01, 2005 - 11:04 pm: |
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No I do not consider myself a christian, perhaps someday I will get back to that. I have family members still involved with the FA or spin offs of FA, and it has caused me a hardship. For ex. not going to the doctor when near deaths door, not getting a physical exam in order to claim a benefit for 100% disability, not accepting any kind of offer for prosthetic devices, etc etc. You get to the point where you accept there is nothing you can do to improve the situation. To me its selfish. If these individuals were healthy, then it wouldnt be as much of an issue. You cannot challenge the individuals because you are left at a dead end road, often with that individual in tears because "Im just one more person trying to challenge their faith". I walk away from it all feeling more frustrated than when I started. This is why FA has had a different affect on different people, it breaks off into other directions, becoming more complex and several people suffer because of it. I cannot blame it all on FA, perhaps a problem that seemed overwhelming sent that person in search of hope, which there always is, but I belived FA promised false hope. However, Im sure there was a sense of belongingness at FA that cannot easily be found everywhere. As I distance myself from it, I understand it more, I thought I would find the "world" that I had been denied this other place full of joy, but I found that it is missing alot that churches offer. Everyone struggles to find their place I guess, but there has to be balance included or you get extremism. Extremism is not just a PC buzzword to me, white supremist, FA, Koresh and all the other cults/groups to appear are examples of what can go wrong with extremist beliefs. Its usually to late to do anything to halt the activities of these groups because of 1st admendment protection. Fortunatley there are organizations like this one that are gettting involved. As far as trusting in the Lord or all of that, I have seen the extreme side of it and its difficult for me to accept this message. |
micah (micah)
Member
Username: micah
Post Number: 51
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 12.207.73.3
| | Posted on Saturday, April 02, 2005 - 2:03 am: |
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healed, If you are looking for an answer to the problems in fa......good luck, there are so many things that happened, some good, some bad, it just makes everything so much more confusing. at least that is the way that I feel. I was raised there, I am 26 now and still trying to make sense of it. I dont know if this will help to cut through the haze or not but this helped me. I look at the way that jesus lived, who he talked to, who he had compasion for and who he healed. He ate with sinners and let a prostitute wash his feet with her hair, I guess that was pretty wild back then, but the point is that he was full of love and no one was afraid to approach him no matter how sinfull, dirty and unclean society said they were. the thing that I like the most about the bible is that in hebrews there is a "faith hall of fame" so to speak. hebrews 11. and in the list is a prostitute named rahab. I love that!! A prostitute in the faith hall of fame, how many sermons have you heard about that? but that is what I love about the message of the bible, it is so inclusive, to the point that even a whore can be given the same status as abraham. I love that.
So anyways, I dont know where I was goin with all that, I just hope that you come to make sense of it all and find some peace for your past.
I love a good conversation though,
any thoughts? |
duncan (duncan)
Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 72
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Monday, April 04, 2005 - 4:25 pm: |
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Healed,
I'm really sad to hear that FA turned you off so much that you do not consider yourself a Christian. Please do not judge yourself by the standards that FA set. It would be impossible for anyone to live up to those standards! Judge yourself by what the Bible says. Micah made a good point that Jesus reached out to the ones that everyone else rejected. Unfortunately, FA had a hard time reaching out to anyone.
As for your personal walk with Jesus, please search your soul. The Bible states that Jesus died for you! The only thing you have to do is believe in Him and ask him to forgive you of your sins. It's that simple! Salvation doesn't come by anything you and I can do. The Bible doesn't say that to be saved you can't go to doctors or that you can't go to college, or that you have to speak in tongues. All it says is that you have to believe in Jesus. That's where FA got hung up in the later years. People believed that your salvation could be lost if you did something or didn't do something. I believe in the doctrine of eternal security. This means that if you have truly been saved and have asked Jesus to come into your life, then nothing you can do, or anyone else can do, will cause you to lose your salvation. If you could lose your salvation based on doing something bad, then your salvation would be based on works - which is against what the Bible says.
The bottom line is that I don't want you to base your salvation on living up to some person or some church's standards. That's not what it's all about. If you were saved as a child, then look inside yourself and ask God to forgive you for the years that you turned from Him. Don't let the condemnation of FA bring you down. If you were never saved as a child, then now is the best time to put the past behind you and ask Jesus into your heart. You never know when some fool terrorist is going to blow us up. Then it would be too late.
Hang in there! I will be praying for you. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 13
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 218.47.82.27
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 7:47 am: |
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Your missing the point completly. You need to reread what I said above about the frustrations and miserys this has caused me and others when dealing with family members who refuse to comprimise. FA influence on me is not so relavant to my beliefs, its what it has done to people I will be responsible to take care of that has turned me off to most relegion. If it works for you, fine, Im not here to challenge your faith. Im dealing with issues one at a time. |
duncan (duncan)
Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 73
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 06, 2005 - 4:10 pm: |
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Sorry for the misunderstanding. I have a mother and uncle who experienced this same thing about6 or 7 years ago. My grandmother had a tumor that my uncle is convinced could have been treated. However, she refused any medical treatment and died after a couple of months. My uncle never went to FA, but my mother used to go. They both had a hard time dealing with it, but, in the end, they had to respect her wishes as an adult. My mom moved into her house and stayed with her for over a month, until she died. The only thing my mom could do was be there for her. It would have only hurt my mom more(and my grandmother, too), if she would have tried to push her views onto my grandmother. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 14
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 218.47.93.132
| | Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 7:32 am: |
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Im glad to see Im not alone in this world, that is having a family member still locked in their own world beliving Freemans teachings. There is no comprimise for them, after all what are they going to do if they just gave it all up? You made some great points David, actually you hit it right on the mark, I couldnt of explained better myself. Perhaps you dont have the baggage that comes from growing up in it, but you understand it well. |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 154
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Monday, April 18, 2005 - 11:17 pm: |
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Lord, I pray for these people who have been deceived into walking away from the truth that your servant Brother Freeman was given by you to teach. Lord, let them see the truth that what Brother Freeman taught was and is the truth. I ask that these folks will find their way back to the truth, in Jesus name |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 15
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.96.39.26
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 3:04 am: |
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Yes the person I know did the same thing about the deaths, actually I think this persson belives it was because of their lack of faith they died. I can never have a normal conversation with this individual about anything, it gets turned around and out of wack so I just give up, no more getting mad and having the authorities called on me, outsiders dont understand anyway. I see we still have some faithful followers out there, mr. mark1124 being one of them. You can do all the praying you want man, aint no going back for me, but like I said here before, Im not trying to change yours or anybody elses faith or beliefs. |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 155
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 6:17 am: |
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Father, I thank you that there are those who have not put their hand to the plow and turned their backs on your word. Those who have are not fit for the kingdom of God. I thank you Lord that many are called but few are chosen, just like your servant taught about Gideon's Army.
In Jesus Name, Amen. |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 156
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 6:26 am: |
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Mr. healed....
It just grieves me that you and others have left the message that will set you free from the traditions of men and have gone back into the way that is wide and that leads to destruction. Jesus said that the way is narrow and Bro. Freeman taught that. What is the problem here? Was the word to strong? Could you not live it? Many left for the same reason.
No. There is nothing you can say that can change my beliefs and you are right about that. The reason for that is because I have been set free through the teachings I have received from FA. But let me say this....I am NOT exalting a man or a church. That is the error that we all make at one point in time. Brother Freeman was just a man, a hose, a vessel, whatever. That was the problem...too many people trusted in Bro. Freeman and God took him home for that. He has done it in the past. Look what happened when God took him home? The sheep scattered as though they had no shepherd. We need to be careful not to follow a man and not the word that a man brings forth.
You may think that you are free now, brother. But you have actually walked back into bondage....bondage to man's teaching, traditions, and the religious system of man that is not of God. Just one challenge....tell me where Bro. Freeman went off in his teaching...and support it with scripture. I dare say that you will be unable to do so.
Peace
Mark |
luvliberty (luvliberty)
Member
Username: luvliberty
Post Number: 90
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 66.141.208.217
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 12:38 pm: |
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i am not a member of FA and never have been but i must comment on the prayer 2 posts ago- it sounds sooo self- righteous- don't you think God can do the assessing as to who is fit for his kingdom? and also Jesus instructed that when we pray we should not do as the Pharisees by making our prayers known to all but rather to pray in secret - your prayer sounds like you are judgemental and the last i read in the Bible God was doing the judging |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 157
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 4:57 pm: |
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To luvliberty:
First, you did not read the WHOLE Bible. It says that we can judge righteous judgment. Second, I am not judgmental. I am just saying what Jesus said. Talk to Him about it. Third, if you were to say that we were to pray secretly, then what do you do with corporate prayer?
The scripture you allude to was to those who Jesus condemned because the hypocrites (I assume the scribes and Pharisees) were praying to be seen of men. Their motive was for spiritual pride. Mine was not. My motivation was not judgmental or prideful, but an honest one.
Let the record be straight.
Mark |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 158
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 8:09 pm: |
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Of course.
There is no spiritual pride or anything that you mentioned. I am stating facts. In fact, there is no spiritual pride in me whatsoever. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 16
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.96.39.26
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 8:34 pm: |
|
Well I hate to disappoint any of you, but as I stated before, Im do not call myself a christian, I do belive there is a God, but I dont go to church. I never really got into the "teachings" of Freeman and faked the whole speaking in tounges thing just to make a parent happy. I just put up and shut up the whole time, because I knew inside things about the whole FA thing was wrong and wacked. So as far as "leaving the message" or slipping into "bondage" as mark tells me, actually there was no believing it in the first place. You ask me if the word was too strong etc, well I dont consider it "strong" as the FA faithful call it, I consider it insane. Freeman started people out on the "milk" then advanced on to the "meat", or the strong word as you called it. Yes I remeber this, and this progressed into people dying, children getting beat, and becoming slaves to the teaching of Freeman and his subordinates. If I remeber correctly, going in debt was also against Gods word, so everyone ended up renting houses, (well Freeman was an exception, I think he had some estate he called the garden of eden). Well I dont consider myself in bondage Mark, except for the bondage of the painful experiences I had with the FA upbringing. I know its a losing battle arguing with a faithful follower of Freeman such as yourself, but belive me, youll never succeed in getting me to side with you supporting FA. People like you twist things and quote scripture to support your beliefs, all the while turning a blind eye towards the sick side of it. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 17
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.96.39.26
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 19, 2005 - 8:53 pm: |
|
I know some of you here actually enjoyed growing up in FA, and hey, its the only childhood memory you have. Im not here to dismiss that. I reread some of the post on the other page. I never attended FA, but I knew that alot of those kids that moved to Indiana all grew up together. Im sure you have good memories of it, there had to be some bonding between you, growing up in those circumstances. I didnt expereince that part of it, but I can understand you saying (cougar for example) that he doesnt feel that his childhood was all that bad. There were others of us who didnt grow up under those circumstances, and saw a different side of it. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 18
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.108.113.29
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 9:20 am: |
|
I was reading from some of Freemans books I saw on a site. Reading them as an adult, you can see how people got caught up in the teachings of Freeman. He was an educated person, you can see it in his writings. The problem is where he interjects his own interpretation of things, and its like it becomes gospel. I think it took alot of nerve to write this paragraph;
For example, to claim healing for the body and then continue to take medicine is not following our faith with corresponding actions. One should settle the matter before hand; if we have faith that God will keep His Word and heal us, then we will not need to keep our medicines and remedies around "just in case." If we feel the need of anything in addition to faith, then we do not have faith to be healed. One should not "try" divine healing as one means of "cure" which we think sometimes works for some people and just might work for us. This is a popular misconception of the scriptural doctrine of healing through faith and always results in failure. When genuine faith is present it alone will be sufficient, for it will take the place of medicines and other aids. When faith alone is sufficient to walk by, then we are acting in harmony with our faith. Others sometimes claim deliverance from an evil habit or some besetting sin by faith, but continue to remain bound to the habit or sin, waiting on God to deliver them. We must act our faith. Genuine faith will always produce corresponding action that are in agreement with our confession of faith.
It would take me awhile to articulate and comment on this, but to put it into short form, it seems to me like he is taking the concept of faith and distorting it to fit his own idea of what he wants it to mean. Perhaps because of his polio condition he really wanted this to work and obvisouly belived it. He does seem like a very credilble and educated writer, but when you get to paragraphs like the one above, it throws up a flag, hey this guy is moving into dangerous teritory...lol. |
luvliberty (luvliberty)
Member
Username: luvliberty
Post Number: 95
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 209.183.171.224
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 20, 2005 - 11:33 pm: |
|
mark
kind of like "i am humble and proud of it?"
your prayer sounded suspiciously like the pharisee in luke 18:10 |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 159
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 7:58 pm: |
|
Hi Cougar,
I apologize but I lost your email address. Please email me at m.scaliotti@comcast.net. Bear in mind that I will be moving soon (Monday) so I will have a different email address after that.
It was interesting that one of the excuses for going to the physician is to refer to the fact that Luke was a physician. Does anyone notice that not once was Luke called upon to provide medical services whenever there was a need? They always called on the Lord to heal them.
Which also leaves me to wonder: did Luke STOP being a physician when he decided to follow Jesus? The Bible remains silent but it does pose some interesting thought.
So I am sorry to those who post that Luke was a physican. We have no records in scripture that says he healed anyone but whenever there was a physical need, they called on Jesus. Look in the Book of Acts. We know that Luke wrote Acts. How come no one called on him when there was a need?
Just a thought...not an argument.
Please email me soon before I move, brother. If you have saved some of your emails in the past, please resend them because I think I accidentally deleted them.
Lord bless
Mark |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 19
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.96.39.26
| | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 9:12 pm: |
|
I guess when there was a healer around, Luke wasnt needed.The bible was written a long time ago, things were left out, of course there was doctors, even with the limited knowledge they had. As far as a miracle, etc, I cant say I have ever seen one. I have seen lots of fingers broken and grow back crooked, teeth rot, read of deaths, and went thru several "trails" of my faith as a kid, a parent telling me after suffering needlessly, "Look! the Lord healed you!" Praise the lord! all the while inside feeling like, something is wrong here. Once somebody took me to the doctor because of a very serious strep throat condition, I couldnt even swallow.and the "evil" doctor prescribed some antiboitics. well when I got home, a parent went bizerck and started calling me a drug addict and hitting me. Hmmm cougar, you were saying that you dont understand about the abuse that went on? your just turning a blind eye to it. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 20
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.96.39.26
| | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 9:21 pm: |
|
another thing I just wanted to say about quoting scripture to support something, I mean come on, the bible is written in segments, anybody a.k.a Freeman, could interpret to mean anything! Faith is the substance of things hoped for but not seen for example, or whatever he said. Well Freeman comes along and like I mentioned in a post above, tells us medicences are not needed....this grows into people who wear glasses are not true belivers and are cut off from the church, this escalates into other areas, because "we have our healing, its promised in Gods word" Im not here to try and make anybody guilty for following Freeman, its Freemans fault because he slowly built this whole thing up, his faith movement. |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 22
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.96.39.26
| | Posted on Thursday, April 21, 2005 - 9:46 pm: |
|
several fanciful alternatives with a Freeman twist....lol |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 23
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.96.39.26
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 12:00 am: |
|
Actually Im ok, and Im glad to have found this site. |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 160
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Friday, April 22, 2005 - 6:14 am: |
|
David_a:
You quoted:
"A funny thing is, there are hundreds of Bible verses that spell out how wrong Freeman was."
Name them
Mark |
healed (healed)
New member
Username: healed
Post Number: 24
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.35.72.254
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 5:13 am: |
|
No you are defending it. Freeman also never told anyone they couldnt go to the doctor. This would of surely been his defense had he stood trial for the deaths of the children under his watch. The problem with his and your defense is, true he didnt say you cant go to the doctor, but what he taught was a false hope, and people got hooked on it. If you did go to the doctor, you were cut off from all fellowship and made to feel as if you had done something wrong, made to feel guilty and your were doomed for hell. you had comprimised your faith. This is a form of brainwashing. I dont understand why people like you cant get it. Would it take the whole congregation to die before you would wake up? Im sure the followers of the Jones cult would defend their actions if they were alive today as well. |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 26
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.35.72.254
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 5:50 am: |
|
I read that article about the little girl with the tumor, I almost lost it, I been there, seen that suffering, and still see it. You are defending it, and thats cold. Your right up there with Freeman. Ole Freeman had his estate on the lake, played with his ham radio and Im sure he had a TV to watch "current events." He brought us the "news" but nobody else could have a TV in the church, nobody else could have a house because you had to go in debt and that was a sin. It was mind control. Freeman was a very educated man, but that doesnt give him or anyone else the right to exercise that kind of power, directly or indirectly over peoples lives. Freeman and the other ministers money received from the congregations tithing, book and tape sales was all tax free. That would explain the mobile homes and the other "blessings" that those ministers were driving around in. Other people were being fruitful and multiplying as the teaching suggested, and renting homes, driving used cars and having to be selective about where they could work. No defense contractors,etc etc. you mentioned reasearching, maybe you should research that. These are just things I remeber, I havent even done any research yet. |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 28
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.35.72.254
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 11:17 am: |
|
I like your attitude now. See when I was growing up, I had to shut up, and take it, and people like you would twist things around to make Freeman sound like a saint and they were always there with some scripture or some proof of a healing or testimony to back up their mess. Well see now things are different, I can speak up, and I can think for myself. Apparently your not happy with what I have to say, maybe I hit a nerve, but oh well, Id rather it be like this than you preaching to me. Im sorry you feel your getting my attitude rammed down your throat, but it seems when I was growing up, I got that alot, it was either FAs way or the highway. Things have a way of coming back around you know. You say your asking questions and looking for answers. I dont see it. WhatI see is everytime another post is critical of Freeman or the deaths that happend in the church, you start talking about malpractice or some Freeman inspired response. Nobody mentioned anything about throwing out the bible, and Im not going to quote scripture to you to back up anything I say. Im not coming at it from a biblical view, scroll up and read, I dont even claim to be a christian. I belive in God but Im not going to bring all that into this, to me its a waste of time. Im addressing wrongs that were done, wackyness, abuse, etc. Maybe some people would like to open up, reach some kind of closure by discussing things. You talking about a thick skull, you and your comrade mark are the ones that keep asking for people to provide scripture. I know this territory well, I got some family members who are like you, and I know when somebody is defending it. |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 161
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 4:43 pm: |
|
To david_a:
The only thing healed is showing is a bitter spirit. He is saying nothing at all. David_a, if that's what you want to listen to, then you ARE deceived. Both of you are nothing but bitter people over what happened. You just can't make sense of anything and you are completely deceived.
I feel sorry for you and will pray for you. You don't need to come back to Freeman. I am not asking you to do so. But at least deal with the bitterness that is in your heart.
As far as Healed is concerned, you need to get saved. You admitted that you don't claim to be Christian. So how can you live according to the scriptures, let alone what Bro Freeman taught.
You are criticizing Freeman and yet you claim you are not Christian. It makes no sense. How can you understand the deep things that Bro. Freeman taught and not know Jesus. You may believe in God...but the devils also believed too.
To the both of you....I am sorry that you are experiencing the bitterness over your experiences. I pray that God will deliver you from the pain that you are going through. But don't blame Freeman for everything. Nor the other ministers. Freeman taught from scripture. Could you not handle it? You have yet to prove to me from scripture where Freeman was wrong. And don't try thoser alledged proof texts either. They were all taken out of context.
It sort of reminds me of another poster from another thread in this topic....
Mark |
1rangerfor1riot (1rangerfor1riot)
New member
Username: 1rangerfor1riot
Post Number: 1
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 165.166.211.36
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 6:22 pm: |
|
I just found this site today and found it interesting. I have business tonight and can't write a lot. But my say for today is in the matter of divine healing if you study the great leaders in church history, many of them believed them same as Dr. Freeman. A B Simpson, Smith Wigglesworth and many others. In his book, Rees Howell's Intercessor, Norman Grubb writes that when Rees Howell's was near death he accepted some medication, but his friends knew that was a sign the end was near, because he would have refused it under normal circumstances. Norman Grubb also wrote on Hobart Freeman that "Hobart Freeman is too narrow on the Baptism of the Holy Spirit and too wide on healing". But Norman Grubb did not bring railing accusations against the man. Also Dr. Walter Martin, disagreed with Hobart Freeman's theology however he was very restrained in his discussions of him.
I believe that both men died at the same age of 64. One went to doctors and the other did not. There was maybe no more brilliant theologian than Dr. Freeman. He was one of the first to come against the shepherding movement. Also the "jesus died spiritually " error that came out, Dr Freeman was the first to come out against it probably before Dr. Martin or any others heard of the error. If any of them saw the error before Dr. Freeman did, I will stand corrected. This is all the time I have tonight. |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 29
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.221.74.62
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 9:16 pm: |
|
I had to read the Smith Wigglesworth story growing up, it was another one of FAs censored books that everyone had to read. Because it wasnt written by Freeman or Bruce Kinsey, I remeber finding it less boring. I think that was about the only book that Freeman hadnt authored that was read by FA members, oh with the exception of the book that discussed all the medical professions malpractice activities, I remeber that one too. I think 1rangerfor1riot is a "johnny come latley" type. I see his type on other christian websites, referencing Freemans books when they are discussing the occult or faith healing. The problem is they didnt grow up in it. I think Freeman was careful to write his books in language that "outsiders" could understand, the people in academia could read it and see Freeman as a brilliant theologian as riot puts it. Freeman had a Thd and that made him a credible author by academic standards. But what Freeman wrote in his books and what he preached in the pulpit are two very different things if you ask me. |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 163
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 9:43 pm: |
|
In an earlier post, I said, "It sort of reminds me of another poster from another thread in this topic...."
Fivefoldprophet, aka Michael Markley, is that person I was speaking about. He also goes by other names as well.
Be careful of him folks. You had better agree 100 percent with him or you will be given a prophecy of judgment from him. You can disagree with me 100% and you will get nothing but love from me. Faith Assembly did not have a message of fear. Fivefoldfalseprophet does. Agree with him 100% or God will judge you.
Be careful of this man, folks. |
1rangerfor1riot (1rangerfor1riot)
New member
Username: 1rangerfor1riot
Post Number: 2
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 165.166.211.36
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 10:13 pm: |
|
I heard Dr. Freeman's teaching on 1 Corinthins 13. He was suffering a painful heart condition the night he taught it. The most important statement to come out of that sermon was "Faith works by love". That is what he taught.
As for his academic credentials:
He had one book published by Moody Press which was named the best book in it's field by Christianity Today magazine.
He was also a contributor to the Wycliffe Bible Encyclopedia published by Moody Press.
Some people are anti-pentecostal so when you mention people like Smith Wigglesworth, who is revered by every Assemblies of God minister in the world, they will still bad mouth him.
Another minister who believed in divne healing was
A B Simpson who founded the Christian and Missionary Alliance. You can read in his book how he withheld medical treatment from his daughter on one occasion.
I never ever heard anyone accuse Hobart Freeman of not practicing what he preached. To the contrary, some critics have said that of all the Word of Faith teachers, Hobart Freeman is the only one to have practiced what he taught.
Divine healing was only a small part of what that church was about.
They had a charismatic school where the same seminary classes were taught as he used to teach at Grace Seminary in Winona Lake. Grace Seminary is the same seminary that Theodore Epp who founded Back to the Bible Broadcast attended.
Healing was only taught once a week on Sunday nights.
The seminary classes dealt with ethics and theology.
And a very brilliant theology at that. |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 165
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 10:25 pm: |
|
1rangerfor1riot:
Amen to your comments. At least God has a few people here who are part of Gideon's Army that will hear the word of God.
Bro. Freeman's theology tapes are excellent. I will be playing them again in my paltalk room soon and they have been a blessing thus far. I personally have not heard them in quite some time and I needed to get back into them.
Another excellent study was the Christian Ethics tapes. I played them on Saturday nights and everyone was blessed. I hope to get to play them again.
Unfortunately there are those who cannot endure the deeper life message, which is the message of the Bible, nor can they endure the message of faith. Those who cannot accuse us of not having love but that is further from the truth. They try to replace the message of faith with the message of love but don't see that they both work together.
Anyway...it is good to see someone else here besides Cougar who I can have fellowship with without the hatred and bitterness that is presented by others in this group.
You see, those who come against Bro. Freeman here accuse FA of having a message of hate. But in reality, they are expressing their hate for him. Sad. And how deluded.
Mark |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 30
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.221.74.62
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 10:44 pm: |
|
Im not accusing FA of having a message of hate. I belive Freeman was cold and elevated himself. How else could he live with the deaths in his congregation? As far as me not being able to "endure" the deeper life "message", well yes, there wil be no more enduring needless suffering, pain, and misery by any teachings of FA. What is sad and deluded is your justification of FA. |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 31
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.221.74.62
| | Posted on Saturday, April 23, 2005 - 10:52 pm: |
|
I think that Freeman had the attitude, hey if I can stand up here and preach with my painful heart as riot mentioned, or suffer his polio, or any of his other ailments, then he didnt have any time for you if you didnt have "faith". Forget that, I dont care about his or any other mans faith, Im not in awe of that. I dont need to follow him. If somebody jumped off a cliff and survived, then started a group that taught if you have faith like I, you will survive if you jump, if you dont you will die, would you follow that man? |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 166
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.31.28.164
| | Posted on Sunday, April 24, 2005 - 7:33 am: |
|
It looks like medical science has caused more deaths than Hobart Freeman did. What saith the false prophet and the others with a bitter spirit? Read everything below. If you do and still don't believe, or you don't read it at all, you indeed have a hard heart regarding the truth.
Death by Medical Science.
http://www.newmediaexplorer.org/sepp/2003/10/29/medical_system_is_leading_cause_of_death_and_injury_in_us.htm
I don't know...it seems to me that there is a scripture that says that it is better to trust in God than to put confidence in man. |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 32
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.41.144.180
| | Posted on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 6:39 am: |
|
Some people are pretty hard headed. Look Cougar, Im not only addressing the deaths in the church. I have family members in the mess still, refuse to go to the doctor, create extreme hardships because of their conditions. If you traded places and you walked a little in this....I would bet you would wake up fast and stop your bumbling about how you dont understand. Anyways, people like you are a waste of time, your too dumb to see it. Sometimes I feel a volly of attacks coming on, then you get mad cause you feel cornered, buy you always come back around in the fog, with some excuse or some justification. Talk about a thick skull. |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 34
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 219.165.155.150
| | Posted on Monday, April 25, 2005 - 8:22 pm: |
|
Ok If your not a follower then what are you? You say you just want to find out if anything taught there was valid. Why? What difference does it make? Of course things taught there were valid. Ive read some of Freemans books, his book on Positive thinking and confession had some great points. Anybody with Freemans education and dedication surely will have some valid points. The problem is that he left a mainstream church because they started to disown him because of his radical beliefs. He said he was blessed with a church of his own without any interference from a worldy donomination. Thats the problem, there were no checks or balances from an outside source. Freeman controlled everything. If you listen to his tapes, you can hear it all the time, how he dismisses the worldly denominations. If you put some distance between it and then go back and look at it, its not that hard to figure out. |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 37
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.96.39.26
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 8:07 pm: |
|
I dont understand why you cant discern for yourself what is wrong or right, what is considered the norm or abnormal. Why cant you be a Freeman or a Bruce Kinsey? Why do you have to be a sheep and follow? Freeman had got on top of his game by reaching the top ranks of his occupation, then made his own church. Kinsey had been in viet nam in the Marines. They had experienced and done things most people had not. Why cant I do what he did? I have been out in the world, military etc., and I can think for myself. I dont need to elevate nobody because I already know where most are coming from. America is not a dictactorship, so why have you decided that you will be be a follower? |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 39
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.96.39.26
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 26, 2005 - 10:05 pm: |
|
I havent missed anything, your just too stupid to see it. Have it your way. I been on your side of the line, and I only recall misery and helplessness. |
luvliberty (luvliberty)
Intermediate Member
Username: luvliberty
Post Number: 119
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 192.173.35.151
| | Posted on Wednesday, April 27, 2005 - 9:41 am: |
|
Dave, I have never been affiliated with FA but have in the past been affiliated with JWs who manifest many of the same failures and successes you described in your post above- I think your post was very well put together and it gives me inspiration to see what good came out of the involvement and use it even though I am no longer with the religion- walking away with a pretty thorough knowledge of the Bible (even if we have personally concluded the interpretation from the group was off) is a good thing- Thank you for your well thought out comments... |
nicnac (nicnac)
New member
Username: nicnac
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 65.123.176.26
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 15, 2005 - 10:55 pm: |
|
Hi, my name is Nikki and I was taken into FA around '77 or '78. I have just started reading some of the post here at this forum. It is amazing to read stories about this place. My husband sent me the link to this place because he knows that I grew up here and that I have been tormented to some extent because of FA. I am not saying that all my problems derive from FA, but a lot of the problems that I have had in my life are directly linked to FA. I would love to talk to anyone who use to go there and see if there are people that I know from there. I do have pleasent memeories of friends that I made there although, with the good memories there are also the bad ones. I do still have issues concerning FA and am trying to get rid of baggage that I have lived with most of my life. To me it was also sad that what one man said out of his mouth, so many people took to heart without asking any questions or using common sense. |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 49
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 221.191.148.196
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 12:38 am: |
|
welcome to the forum, feel free to vent and get some release but be forewarned that some here are still attached to it. |
stabidak (stabidak)
New member
Username: stabidak
Post Number: 1
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 4.244.183.157
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 1:28 am: |
|
How people get attached to teaching that is so blatantly false and destroyed and damaged so many lives is just mind boggling.
I was raised a Southern Baptist, I am still a Southern Baptist and while I am not "hooked" on a man made denomination I am proud of the SBC leadership nationally and their resistance to liberal movements from within.
Hobart Freeman may have had great intentions, but he should have heeded to the written word about testing the spirits.
STABI
} |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 176
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.243.13.242
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 6:04 am: |
|
Stabi....
Freeman DID tests the spirits...and he confronted them. He warned against all the false teachings that were out there.
Remember everyone...we are to test the spirits...to check what was taught with scripture. Freeman did teach that.
Lord bless...Mark |
healed (healed)
Junior Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 50
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 219.167.187.170
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 6:56 am: |
|
I think brotha Mark got it all backwards. What Freeman did was leave the mainstream denominations because of their disapproval of his eccentric teachings and beliefs. He then got his revenge by opening his own church and doing as he pleased. Liberal movements from within can start out benign but grow into something dangerous. You can be a Budhist, a Hindu, a devil worshiper or a Freemanite, but what it all boils down to is human nature is predictable. I think it started out with Bro Freeman making the break from the mainstream because somebody disapproved of his radical thinking. |
stabidak (stabidak)
New member
Username: stabidak
Post Number: 2
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 4.244.177.23
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 7:28 am: |
|
Again, seeing someone defend Hobart Freeman's teaching and the resulting consequences of said teaching is just absolutely mind boggling.
I have seen up close the damage that the FA "ministry" or lack thereof in this case has done.
The good news is that there is indeed a final justice, as humans we often wonder why God 'allows' bad things to happen to good people, simple fact is no one is actually getting away with anything.
Stabi |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 177
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.203.88.100
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 11:50 am: |
|
Dr Freeman had the gift of strength and faith to stand up against the Gainsayers, they kicked at him and spoke evil of the truth revealed in the scripture .The critics of Christ are alive and well and they will be Judged by the words they speak. “There is a small remnant of faithful “soon the world will be Judged and the remnant will overcome by the power of the blood of the Lamb and the testimony of their words not loving their lives even unto death and just as the days of Noah they will be taken away. |
healed (healed)
Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 51
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 221.191.143.218
| | Posted on Thursday, June 16, 2005 - 8:25 pm: |
|
Those who twist their interpretation of the bible to justify criminal behavior will also be judged and punished. |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 179
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.243.13.242
| | Posted on Friday, June 17, 2005 - 6:22 am: |
|
Since you are not a believer, haled, that does not deserve comment. You know nothing of what you are talking about |
healed (healed)
Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 52
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.41.144.129
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 8:28 am: |
|
Well actually I do know a thing or two about FA, having grown up under it and having family still in it now, but you are correct when you say that I am not a beliver in your ridiculous beliefs. Perhaps you misunderstood what I was trying to convey. You say there are those who will be judged, the critics of Christ, or interpreted to mean, the critics of your belief system. Well I dont know about all that, but what I do know is that if you go encouraging people to belive in a group that promotes indirect criminal activity like FA did, you will be judged and possibly given prison time. Lucky for Bro Freeman, he checked out before he could answer for his deeds. |
healed (healed)
Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 53
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.41.144.129
| | Posted on Saturday, June 18, 2005 - 8:57 am: |
|
you know mark I was reading through one of your post on another page.
You said "Listen to the tapes. Problem - no one should worship man and no one did. It would be idolatry.
Freeman has always said that he is a vessel, a hose. He is a 1 Corinthians 1 Christian.....the foolish, the weak, the base and despised...so that no flesh shall glory in His sight."
If this is true, then why did FA use mind control to discourage any of its members from attending other churches, listening to media, or attending college?
Freeman was a vessel you say. So your admitting that after 2000 years after Christ death, Freeman was the only chosen vessel? What about all the other "vessels" out there? Whats wrong with them? But they dont teach the "whole" word you say. I disagree. They dont teach what Bro Freeman sanctified and censored so they are offlimits. |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 187
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.243.13.242
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 21, 2005 - 12:34 am: |
|
OK fiveyearoldfalseprophet. You want an explanation? You got one. And unlike you, I am telling the truth! If you don't believe it, shut up!
The alleged pornographic website where I posted my alleged dirty joke is none other than a Three Stooges newsgroup. Somebody crossposted that pornographic email there. I responded with a Three Stooges joke ON A NEWSGROUP, NOT A STUPID WEBSITE. Gee, Michael malarkey, it would be nice if you listen to the truth for a change. This is the truth and this is what I told Brenneman and he believes me because he believes in the truth and walks in love according to 1 Cor 13 (loves be3lieves all things). Gee Mr. Malarkey superchristian fiveyearoldfalseprophet, that means since you do not believe me and give me the benefit of the doubt, you are not walking in love, which you hypocritally preach. I guess Jesus has something to say about that..."Woe unto you scribes and Pharisees...HYPOCRITES!!!"
If the shoe fits, wear it, Copelandite.
I'm through with you. God will deal with you for all the damage that you have done to me, to cougar, and to everyone else that you have hurt by your lies, hatred for the truth, your lousy attitude, and your self pugnatious relious pride, along with your divisive witchcraft spirit.
I have had it with you Mr. falseprophet. Grow up for a change and act your age. Start walking in the love which you preach. Freeman did and Brenneman does too!
(oh dear me...I('m not walking in love now. I am full of hate...of dear. Malarkey is going to post this to Joe.....oh dear, I think I will run and hide...I'm so scared....yeah right.
Bye Bye Michael, the prophet of hate.
Mr. Scaliotti |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 188
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.243.13.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 22, 2005 - 6:35 am: |
|
Your comment Mr Malarkey false prophet:, "Jesus said this mark believe it!
Luke 13:3 (KJV) I tell you, Nay: but, except ye repent, ye shall all likewise perish"
I will NOT repent because I did not sin. YOU did!!!
So YOU repent, you big baby |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 192
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 66.203.88.100
| | Posted on Thursday, June 23, 2005 - 12:12 pm: |
|
Michael...why don't you go to the newsgroup in question and go check out the context. After all, you accuse me of taking Copeland out of context. You just took what I said out of context. Go ahead. I challenge you. Go subscribe to the Three Stooges newsgroup. You may find it there if it is still there. Then when you find it, maybe you will shut your mouth for a change. You better or God will shut it for you.
Mark (who tells the truth) |
cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)
Member
Username: cougarxr72
Post Number: 60
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 67.77.28.195
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 10:05 am: |
|
This type of activity would not be considered to be of the fruits of the spirit, if Mark was actually intentionally participating in the site with that intention, he claims he was not so why don't you take his word for it. I'll bet you get spam emails on occasion that are pornographic, does that make you living in sin, no not unless you open them and participate in it. You're taking a mispost and trying to turn it in to something that it is not. Give it a rest. |
mark1124 (mark1124)
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 199
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.243.13.242
| | Posted on Friday, June 24, 2005 - 11:41 pm: |
|
OK fivefoldfalseprophet. The ball is in your court. Please give evidence to the above comment:
"also freeman’s experience with the occult and demonic spiritual influence in peoples lives was
was just more of his seminary paper work!"
Explain Explain Explain. Give evidence. Not your biased hatred for the man. Give me some facts. How about some more of your web links to prove such absurdity.
Well....c'mon. Answer me hot shot. C'mon Mr prophetic expert. Explain to all of us where you get your authority. Were you there when he ministered deliverance? How do you know? Or are you making things up about him like you do about me? Well...c'mon Michael. Answer us all. We are all waiting.
And don't come on with your threats...because that is not the spirit of Jesus. because He nevered threatened anyone. That is not love. Well, what about it. And don't give us all any dribble. Remember...only the whole public will read this if they come and read your comments. C'mon. we are all waiting with baited breath. Well...speak up. I need a good laugh. |
hombre (hombre)
Junior Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 37
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 - 9:16 pm: |
|
It was interesting that one of the excuses for going to the physician is to refer to the fact that Luke was a physician. Does anyone notice that not once was Luke called upon to provide medical services whenever there was a need? They always called on the Lord to heal them.
Which also leaves me to wonder: did Luke STOP being a physician when he decided to follow Jesus? The Bible remains silent but it does pose some interesting thought.
So I am sorry to those who post that Luke was a physican. We have no records in scripture that says he healed anyone but whenever there was a physical need, they called on Jesus. Look in the Book of Acts. We know that Luke wrote Acts. How come no one called on him when there was a need?
WHY do you think it is that preachers choose to ignore this?
I've got a couple of ideas.
1. Fear. They're afraid of losing support dollars
from ' Cookie Cutter Marshmallow Christians' *
who don't really want to follow Jesus;
but just want to feel good about their faithful works attendance,
and go home, having done their duty.
2. Fear. They are afraid of being labeled extremists, and of losing friendships.
3. Fear. they are afraid of what man can do to them,
if they preach the word, and people practice it.
Let's face it, the Bible is a factious, book of extreme ideas,
that has caused both unspeakable joy in those who believe,
as well as ungodly persecution upon those who believe
and do the same.
For those who just want to use it as something to lay their hands on
in court to make an oath with, it still remains a very special, and fearful book.
* © Hobart Freeman |
healed (healed)
Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 82
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.47.132.127
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 11:46 pm: |
|
You left out #4.
FEAR of being brought before a grand jury probe for having been responsible for the deaths of adults and children in their congregation. |
cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)
Member
Username: cougarxr72
Post Number: 85
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.68.40.62
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 11:45 am: |
|
That is a fear many preachers have, but if Jesus would have had that fear(remember he was brought to trial for preaching the word of god and faith for healing) none of us would have salvation. Since Healed you're not saved anyway, I'm sure you could care less. I truly hope for your eternal sake at some point you at least believe in salvation even if you don't want to believe anything else. I'm sure the drug companies have this fear as well. Merck just got penalized $254 million for the death of a patient on vioxx and they have up to 5,000 more pending lawsuits for the same reason. In today's sue happy society the fear of grand jury trial or going to court is a fear most businesses have, that's why they incorporate and have insurance and good attorneys. If you go about your life being afraid of being taken to court over whatever, you'll spend your entire life in fear. |
hombre (hombre)
Junior Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 40
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 12:10 pm: |
|
Un:
You tempt me into some serious name calling.
As the old proverb says:
He's enough to make a saint cuss.
That you are.
You see, UN, in our society,
all accused persons are considered innocent until proven guilty.
You have already decided that Hobart was responsible for
the deaths of people, on the basis that they attended his meetings.
You have thus, eliminated yourself from a jury selection,
since you cannot approach the subject with an open mind.
Coug:
He refuses to see anything more than his secular philosophies on life
as a basis for what he believes to be the correct way to live.
he would enforce those dictums upon us, were it possible,
and to fulfill prophesy, would believe that he was doing God a favor.
( for a taste of his mindset, see his post # 70, under why was FA so special? )
Don't let him get you down.
In addition to needing salvation, he is in serious need of deliverance as well.
I am guessing perhaps, spirits of anger, resentment, bitterness, as well
as rejection and Anti-Christ.
But since the strong men won't allow him to think for himself,
he's kinda .....well........up the river...so to speak,
until maybe he gets kicked really hard, or the Lord decides to open his eyes
BTW: He likes to spout off about us, and how cultish we are,
but hows come he always avoids the name and blood of Jesus?
Have we once seen him magnify The Lord here?
I think that is because 'ol UN is on the throne.
That's all the proof I need. |
cougarxr72 (cougarxr72)
Member
Username: cougarxr72
Post Number: 86
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 69.68.40.62
| | Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 1:33 pm: |
|
In my eyes if believing scripture and having faith in God is cultish, then I'd rather be considered cultish than be damned for all of eternity. Thanks for the encouragement Hombre. |
1faithassemblykid
New member
Username: 1faithassemblykid
Post Number: 9
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.33.253.231
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 30, 2006 - 2:01 am: |
|
Timeline:
parents joined in '74, I was born in '75
2 years old:told my grandpa that when he got saved, he would not drink beer anymore or need to wear his glasses. Horrified the grandparents, heh.
3 years old:
got 'saved.' Was the happiest day of my life at the time. Ran around in the yard celebrating barefoot till I stepped on a thorn. Ouch, damned satan! I have very vague memories of the glory barn in this era.
5 years old:
Went to stay at the Nei's house while my mom had a baby. I was so excited too have a new brother or sister. When I came home to see the new baby, I found out it 'went to be with Jesus.' The baby was kicking 2 hours b/f birth and was born strangled by umbilical cord
6 years old:
started 1st grade at public school with ear infections in both ears. I'd had these for 2 years, and my ears would constantly 'run.'
I took a handkerchief to school and wiped them when no one looked. The teacher caught me once and sent me to the nurse. Somehow they believed that it wasn't too bad when I told them that I wasn't sick (because I was healed, but it just hadn't manifested itself yet, but I didn't explain that to the noob teacher.
At school, several times an hour, I'd close my eyes and repent. I wasn't always sure I had sinned, but I was super paranoid about dying w.o repenting for last sin sinned and therefore going to hell. My teacher asked me what I was doing once, and I told her the truth.
For instance, I knew that if I picked my nose, since my mom had told me not too, and since 'Honor thy father and mother....' that this was a sin.
I was about as guilt ridden as a kid as anyone could be IMO
General note. Since about age 3 had horrible vivid nightmares about the demons and demonic forces the Freeman talked about. I was scared to death. I have never had happy dreams since, and most are scary. I've done some research and found that this is not too uncommon, so I'm not really blaming the church/HEF here.
A girl on the schoolbus said 'f*ck.' I had never heard the word before, so I asked my dad what it meant. I got whipped for asking and was told to repent.
7 years old: Got laying on of hands, by HEF, for me ear infections, I swear to God I believe. I felt nothing and nothing changed. I thought I would feel the annointing rushing through me but didn't. I knew I had f'd up somehow, but wasn't sure how. Telling my dad I didn't feel it would have just gotten me in trouble. I believe this is the stage where rational thought started to creep in with me.
It was about this time that I got an 'S' for satisfactory on my report card. I ws scolded for not getting an S+. This pattern continued for any A-'s and especially for B+'s.
9 years old: I was heartbroken that I wasn't allowed to play on my 3rd grade basketball team. I was the 2nd best player in my class (knowing from gym/recess), but was not allowed to be unequally yoked with unbelievers.
This is when I considered telling on my parents to the authorities (about my ears, still running/infectious as ever, hearing pretty bad too).
Had I known at the time that my grandparents would have gotten custody, I would have turned them in so that I could play basketball. I was just a scared 3rd grader at the time so I never followed through.
However, this was the changing point. I 'knew' that it was okay to play basketball just like I 'knew' that 2+2=4. Logic was kicking in and I slowly realized how illogical my parents beliefs were, but this was the infancy of that.
to be continued later... |
barn_kid
New member
Username: barn_kid
Post Number: 13
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 69.19.14.25
| | Posted on Sunday, November 12, 2006 - 11:03 pm: |
|
"Had I know at the time my grandparents would have gotten custody, I would have turned your parents in so you could play basketball."
Your next sentence was "I was just a scared 3rd grader at the tiem so I never followed through."
Sounds like a typical kid who wants their own way to me.
Should you have gotten medical attention. Sure. Were your parents misguided? Perhaps so. But I think it's important to realize that either way, our parents were doing what they thought was right.
As an adult now I do make mistakes with my own child (not the kind of not taking her to the doctor or scaring her with stories of demonic forces) but it is my hope that she will see me as a flawed parent who loves her and still makes mistakes...........
I couldn't see past my own disappointment and pain until I was older and a parent myself - and recognize my own mistakes with my daughter - that even though I love her, I am an idiot and lose my temper, have bad days or just fail because I'm a selfish stupid human being at times.
I try to remember that when I contemplate the pain I endured because my parents went to church at Faith Assembly. It wasn't all bad there. In fact, I loved going to church there. I loved the singing. I loved the sermons. I liked the "community' of the place. I loved feeling connected and knowing so many people there and having them a part of our lives....people always coming over after church and hanging out and eating and talking.....having friends to play with, even all the slave labor we kids did together with shucking corn together and canning hundreds of quarts of green beans for our freakishly big families...........hey, it was what was NORMAL a hundred years ago.........and kids a 100 years ago probably had ear aches and women died in childbirth and kids couldn't play on the basketball team not for the ridiculous reason of "being unequally yoked" but because they had to work on the family farm.
Oh well...........we're all 20 years removed from Faith Assembly. What have we done with our lives SINCE THEN? |
active_angel
New member
Username: active_angel
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 76.190.67.184
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 10:59 am: |
|
Wow I'm not sure what to think of who in this forum. First I will give everyone a little background info on me. I was of the latter generation FA's. I was born into it. So I've seen everything! I've seen what they called healing. I ve seen the sexual abuse. I've also lived through the physical abuse myself. No not by parents but by the actual leadership. So I can understand why someone would hold so much animosity towards anything that had to to with Hobart Freeman or FA. I remember everything. I remember being scared to death to go to sleep at night, for fear God was going to come back that night, and that I might have forgotten to ask God for forgiveness for something. I wasn't even in kindergarten yet. My family was one that was looked down upon. My mom was a single mother trying to raise her children to the best of her ability. There were five of us. I won't get into that entire story now. I'll save it for later.
But what I'm trying to say is I've been trying to forgive. It can be a very hard thing to do. Ecspecially after you look at the damage a physically abused child goes through. I always thought that I was the worst child ever for them to want to do that to me. I couldn't get anyone to believe me. Who here remembers "Children should be seen but not heard"! I do all to well.
I will tell you this much God has thankfully made me much stronger. I have a lovely family, and I try to do as much in his name as possible. I figure that the least I can do for God. WHY???? Because out of all the families that came out of our sect, we may have went through the most "fire" while we were there but we are probably the least messed up. And when I say messed up I mean it. When everything hit the fan the truths came out. Sexual abuse, inter marital affairs, child molestation, physical abuse, and that was just the congregation. I haven't touched the leadership, yet. I remember HEB and the teachings, sitting through those long sermons thinking if I die from starvation will they raise me up from the dead. I'm not complaining about my life. It is what it is. But I was sick a lot as a child and should have seen a doctor. But because I didn't it has shaped my life for me, and my health. I live with pain. But like I said I'm not hear to complain. I'm actually grateful for a strong christian family. For that I thank God, because w/o him it would have been impossible. Because all of my siblings and I tried to run at one time or another, and GOd always brought us back. That is only God! Now in my life I help raise money for charities, I teach my children the "Love of God" Not fire and brimstone! I try to be a good wife & mother. I believe God placed doctors here to help us when we need it. I believe in miracles. We would have high fevers as children, my mother would lay her hands and pray for us, fifteen minutes later we would be up running around like nothing. But I believe my mother had unprovoked faith. She didn't know any other way. But I've also seen the other side of that too. So if someone is angry an upset or they feel violated, I think they have the right to feel that way. I deal with myself all the time. It's very hard to push that feeling of anger away. I've seen and endured some very awful things. I have a great support group when I need it....My family. Not everyone is so blessed. As far as HEB and FA go,
I want to say some really awful things. But what would that make me. For everyone that supports them I hope that GOD has you where he wants you then, and just be mindful of your families. God hasn't set out to destroy, but to build up. AND for the people lives that are still messed up (and there are still many of them) God will rebuild. |
active_angel
New member
Username: active_angel
Post Number: 2
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 76.190.67.184
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
|
I'm willing to talk to anyone who needs to. Or anyone who has a question, but I will not get into a yelling match about it.
I have my own issues, and hopefully with Gods help I will some day be relieved of them also. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 209
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 2:48 pm: |
|
quote:I want to say some really awful things. But what would that make me.
Welcome, Angel.
Who we all here will become obvious, once you have been here, and followed for awhile. Those who are bitter, reject for the most part those of us who are not. That's the jist of it.
I am happy that you have apparently worked through a lot of your own difficulties, and have arrived at the healthy place that I have taken the liberty to quote.
On behalf of OvercomersOnline.com, I invite you to express yourself within our forum as well. |
odysseus
Junior Member
Username: odysseus
Post Number: 30
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 74.133.81.90
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 12, 2006 - 5:53 pm: |
|
Let me add a welcome Angel. Please note that some of us are too busy ‘Overcoming’ to have rational discourse with you. Anyway, welcome to the fray. |
active_angel
New member
Username: active_angel
Post Number: 4
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 76.190.67.184
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 9:53 am: |
|
I appreciate the welcomes. I can see from reading many of the post that this is a very heated discussion for everyone. Opinions are great. That's what allows us to be individuals. You will see from my first posting that I'm kind of at a middle ground with everything. I have to be. Or I'd be a very hateful person. I can be very self destructive if these "issues" are not left in check. The stories that I could tell you guys would blow you out of the water. It would make horror movies seem tame.
But a question to all??? What kind of site is this. Is it to help those that need it, or just a discussion area for everyone to rant? Like I said in earlier post I'm not here to fight but to help or to get help.
Again thx for the greets! |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 212
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 11:00 am: |
|
quote:Like I said in earlier post I'm not here to fight but to help or to get help.
That was what I wanted to do too, when I first found this site.
However, you will find that there are detractors who are not interested in improving themselves as Christians, but only in defaming others. I don't find that to be a 'Christian' virtue. Apparently, 'they' do....anyway, don't let anyone take your cheerful attitude away from you. |
odysseus
Junior Member
Username: odysseus
Post Number: 33
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 74.133.75.109
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 13, 2006 - 11:31 am: |
|
Please go back to Overcomersonline.com where you can control the content. |
mark1124
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 148
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.22.219.118
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 12:03 am: |
|
odysseus,
Why don't you go back to the Freeman tapes and learn how to overcome your bad attitude. It is not welcome here.
It is about time that we clean up the trash in this forum and discuss the issues, both pro and con, about FA and Freeman. Some people would like to share there experiences and perhaps we can finally use this forum as a place where we can minister to those who are hurting or who simply would like to find love and compassion.
There is enough trash that has been posted here bashing other people and it should not be tolerated, whether you are an overcomer or a nominal Christian. I guess that is why the overcomersonline forum was started. At least there are loving people over there and if anyone (except odysseus and healed) would like to go there instead of trying to find compassion here, you are most welcome to do so. (I hope I am not overstepping my boundaries here.)
So people like odysseus and healed can have this forum all to themselves. Birds of a feather flock together.
You know folks...the devil is laughing his head off watching Christians fight with each other. Over what? A man and his message? Come on folks. Get real. And whatever happened to you at FA, get over it and get on with your life. Let God heal those hurts that you experienced.
One last comment. I have been taking a lot of heat from Healed concerning my feelings towards Freeman. All I can say is that because of hearing the anointed teaching from the vessel that God used (Freeman), I have really learned what it means to trust God and to know that God is faithful. I have gone through some personal trials and believe me...if I was not grounded in the word, I would have given up hope. But thanks be to God who always gives me the victory in Jesus Christ.
There are a lot of other things that I have learned from the tapes. Space will not allow me to mention them here. Perhaps in another post, I will share my thoughts about FA...both pros and cons. But I know that odysseus and healed could care less. So maybe I will not bother. They wouldn't care anyway. So be it.
Enough said.
Mark |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 154
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.46.155.17
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 5:40 am: |
|
"It is about time that we clean up the trash in this forum and discuss the issues, both pro and con, about FA and Freeman. Some people would like to share there experiences and perhaps we can finally use this forum as a place where we can minister to those who are hurting or who simply would like to find love and compassion"
But of course. You would like nothing more than to have this forum to yourself to spread the word according to Freeman and worship and adore Hobart. I hate to disappoint you brother Mark, but this site is dedicated to discussions for people who survived cult experiences. Its a great forum for ALL, not only you and your comrades, to come and have open discussions and perhaps find closure. You say that you have heat and insults coming from me but I dont feel these are insults, its just statements or questions your unable or unwilling to answer. I am not here to destroy your faith, but I am not here to agree with Freeman doctrines either. |
mark1124
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 149
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.22.219.118
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 6:14 am: |
|
To quote my friend Hombre:
"Ho-hum.
Different day, Same 'ol stale rhetorical regurgitations.
Todays score: F--." |
mark1124
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 151
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.22.219.118
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 6:20 am: |
|
And folks...in spite of unhealed's rantings...maybe we can minister and have this forum cleaned up in spite of healed's postings and rantings.
Perhaps healed should find his own venue to post his trash and his insults. Then he can join the ranks of odysseus and fivefoldprophetess.
All in favor? Aye.
Motion carried. |
hardbones
New member
Username: hardbones
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 65.93.213.26
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 12:00 pm: |
|
"Sexual abuse, inter marital affairs, child molestation, physical abuse, and that was just the congregation. I haven't touched the leadership "
I don't know why it doesn't surprise me to hear that.
I was never part of FA I was part of the church in Canada (from about 1976 on) I'd like to hear some info on that though. |
active_angel
New member
Username: active_angel
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 76.190.67.184
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 3:03 pm: |
|
This is for who ever may be interested.
I'm here neither to defend or offennd Freeman or the FA. My father is the one who not too long ago told me that it is not right to hold a grudge. It is for God to deal out judgement as he sees fit. And he will.
And I continue with, whoever needs healing won't find it with someone continuosly telling them that no wrong was done. Because in their eyes it was wrong. You can't ask someone who was tortured and raped to forgive that person, while the rapist is being held over their heads. Even if the rapist had a good reason for doing it.
And forgiveness is a very hard thing for a person - any person to do. It doesn't matter how good of a christian they are. Yes - if we could all just be like Jesus. Unfortunately this isn't a perfect world. But everyday people are out there striving to make it better.
If the people that came to this forum for healing don't get it then it makes this forum void.
For those of you that want healing or to understand what happened to you, I will tell you that it took me many years to get where I am today. And as I've said before I still struggle with many of these issues. I pray that God is with you and that he helps you find peace & understanding. Because without him, it can be very detrimental to your soul.
If you don't find your healing in these forum walls..I pray you find it somewhere!
God Bless |
active_angel
New member
Username: active_angel
Post Number: 8
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 76.190.67.184
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 3:07 pm: |
|
Hardbones,
most of what I have to say about those issues are of a sensitive nature. IF you care to let me share my private email is frth_angel@excite.com. I will answer your questions there. THere is enough ranting going on without me egging on more! lol
God Bless |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 219
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 3:55 pm: |
|
quote:Hardbones,
...I assume that you are addressing me.....
quote:most of what I have to say about those issues are of a sensitive nature.
I read your last post. I understand the jist of it.
I am sorry that you experienced that, I have met others who have been through that in their lives, but not at FA/FA outreaches.
That sort of thing can ruin a person for life, if they allow it too.
It looks like you are handling it well, although I see nothing wrong with prosecuting that, especially if there are those who are neglecting your life and feelings for the sake of covering up the perp/s. That's more than religious error, that's criminal.
BTW: There isn't a reason that is sufficient to excuse rape. |
active_angel
New member
Username: active_angel
Post Number: 9
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 76.190.67.184
| | Posted on Thursday, December 14, 2006 - 6:14 pm: |
|
Hombre,
When I refered to hardbones in my last post it was towards another new member that posted right after my little tirade on the 13th.
And I find it exceptional that you find no excuse for rape. But the point I was trying to make is that many of the people that were apart of FA & ended up having terrible things happen.
Anyone would find it hard to forgive anyone who directly or indirectly helped destroy their lives. Even if they did choose that path.
As far as prosecuting the people involved with some of this abuse and other going ons..The idea would be to prove it ..right? The sad part about all of this is I believe some of the parties involved with this are disillusioned. THey honestly don't believe there was any wrong doing. Then others know that there was. I remember many things that didn't sit well with me, even as a child. I'm not saying all of the FA churches were like that, but mine was. And the things that were done, were done in Freemans name/teachings or however you want to say that.
I remember memorizing bible verses as a kindergardner, and told one meaning of it. And now that I'm older I found out it means something else. I think it was meant to scare us kids into behaving. And once again this wasn't our parents. But some that held leadership positions.
I will also say I believe that God had his own path for me. And that's why I'm here & okay today. My own opinion - I believe there were definatley people in our church that loved God, without a doubt. But I will say I believe much of it was "I'm better than you. My faith is stronger." Basically everyone was pretty much for themselves, and how they could be god like to others. (Another words - "revere me, I'm the most God like")
Now, I just worry about the others. It's a very hard thing to come back from. There is much bitterness & anger. But I don't blame anyone,for being angry. But I have been in there shoes. I understand where they are coming from.
I guess what I'm trying to tell you is, that's why it's hard for any one to understand you. Or want too for that matter. There's still too much pain involved.
So when I say WWJD? hopefully you understand. You sound like you have very strong feelings, and your not lacking in the brain area ;)
I know you have a lot on your mind obviously so it's just a little food for thought.
Have a great day |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 220
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Friday, December 15, 2006 - 12:25 pm: |
|
quote:I guess what I'm trying to tell you is, that's why it's hard for any one to understand you.
Or want too for that matter. There's still too much pain involved.
So when I say WWJD? hopefully you understand.
It has taken me over 20 years to sort out things for myself.
I don't know how long it will take others.
Since I am not in the habit of pulling punches, I will just go ahead and say it.
It would appear to me, that perhaps we are all talking about the same group of tiny minded religious legalists,
when I speak of who I refer to, and 'you who were children then', speak of whom you are referring to.
I recall that for the most part, the offended parties have been speaking of their own parents.
Perhaps they are right about them. I don't know, because I don't know them.
What you, I, and some others have in common, is that we have decided that we are going on,
regardless of what we experienced or saw in the lives of others.
The Christian life through the grace of Jesus, is far bigger than FA or HEF.
As I said, I have filtered what I received at FA over the past 20 years.
We received a tremendous foundation in Biblical theology,
which one simply can't get elsewhere, That's what I'm keeping.
I'm throwing out, however, all of the petty little personal opinions,
and legalism that supported the issues non-relevant to Christian living
like the perceived bans on Nikes, and bomber jackets, and the things that I personally
don't care about, like home-baked bread, ham radio and home schooling.
I am also throwing out everyone else' experiences with regard to whether
they did or did not choose to go to college, visit doctors for their healing,
or carry insurance. That is something I choose to do, because I don't have
the complete story on anyone but myself. I do have, however, the Word of God,
and access to Him through Jesus. That is all one really needs.
20 years to understand the simplicity of that, is a long time;
but some are still struggling as well as attacking.
The answer is in the eternal love that Jesus has for us.
It is and always has been, WWJD. |
barn_kid
New member
Username: barn_kid
Post Number: 18
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 69.19.14.27
| | Posted on Monday, December 18, 2006 - 8:34 pm: |
|
Active angel,
I'd love to hear your allegations about sexual or physical abuse by leadership.
Quite clearly you can not be referring to "HEB" because Dr. Freeman did not fraternize with the congregation outside the church. The man did little else but sit and study.
I attended Faith Assembly from 1973 until 1987.
Let's hear names and details....and none of this b.s. about how this is "of a sensitive nature". You've made an allegation, now let's hear it. You're a grownup now. Let's hear it.
I am aware that there was sexual and physical abuse that took place in the families that attended Faith Assembly. However, that happens in every city and in every church - that is not something unique to Faith Assembly. There are sick freaks everywhere.
But to say that the leadership was involved intrigues me. That's an allegation that I've never heard.
Say on, Active angel. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 157
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.46.159.145
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 5:33 am: |
|
I personnaly never heard of any sexual abuse. I know I got the rod beaten over my head way to many times and suffered from that, but I dont think many got sexually abused. I aint gonna make something that didnt happen into something, everything that I put on this site was for real. Hobart didnt mind physical abuse, but I never heard of anything whatsoever that promoted sexual abuse from FA ministers. Perhaps some of the following were doing it, but that wasnt in line with the teachings I remeber. The physical part came from the spare not the rod passage in the bible and was applied to disobedience to Hobarts word. Lets dont be adding things to the mix that distort what really happened or people will disqualify everything you respond with. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 158
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.46.159.217
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 19, 2006 - 6:55 am: |
|
I wasnt able to edit the above post, but what I was trying to say is that its easy to add things to something like the FA experience and distort what really went on, like rewriting history. While there were parallals to other cults, FA was unique in many ways in that HEF was truly dedicated and sincere to his beliefs, as wacked as they were. He didnt promote any sort of deviant behavior like sexual abuse or even talk of sex. Most of us never had any sexual experiences until late teens or early adulthood Im sure as dating was forbidden. I think I read where Duncan was dating one of the ministers daughters in secret, but he was one of the "elite" and got away with it. Others of us got beat for even looking at somebody of the oppisite sex. If a member molested somebody, thats different, but even that, I never heard of it. I strongly feel the errors in the faith message and the other nonsense that came out of FA should be addressed. Adding to that distorts what really went on and it makes it easy for outsiders who read about FA to get the wrong message about what went on. If you suffered from something sexually from a FA member, then thats terrible, another one of those terrible things that happened at FA. Thats not the experience I had or remeber, especially coming from the leaders there or at satellite body churches. Freeman tried to make a sterile enviroment to the point of being insane, everything got cleansed and sanatized by him and his distorted view of the bible. Sexual abuse was one of those things like Halloween that were no brainers, they werent even mentioned. |
barn_kid
New member
Username: barn_kid
Post Number: 19
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 66.82.9.86
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 20, 2006 - 6:25 pm: |
|
I'm still irked over angel's post. To say that the leadership was involved or imply that any of them condoned sexual and physical abuse disgusts me.
Like healed said, there were times that parents probably crossed a line in the whole "spare the rod" thing - but even that, I do not believe was something that the leadership condoned. Spanking - yes, BEATING - no.
To suggest that they condoned or participated in the sexual abuse of children sickens and angers me.
Yes, there was some doctrine that got a bit extreme - but the other............that's just not anything that I believe happened....and I'm not Pollyanna about F.A. - |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 160
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.47.130.207
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 7:56 am: |
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I personnaly belive they condoned beating, but I cannot belive they permited any sort of sexual abuse. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 224
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 12:06 pm: |
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quote:I personnaly belive they condoned beating, but I cannot belive they permited any sort of sexual abuse.
You are entitled to any belief that you want to have in America.
What that belief is, and whether it is grounded in truth is another matter. I don't doubt that in any assemblage of people that reaches the proportions of FA ( whether religiously oriented or not ) that there will be people who are involved in about anything one could imagine; including what you refer to as 'beating'. To say, however, that 'beating' is/was a practice that was condoned or taught by FA/HEF, is a gross misinterpretation and misrepresentation of what FA taught with regards to child discipline. Corporal punishment administered correctly is NOT beating, but I can easily see how that would be misconstrued by todays' liberals.
Foolishness is bound in the heart of a child; but the rod of correction shall drive it far from him.
~ Prov. 22 : 15
Withhold not correction from the child: for if thou beatest him with the rod, he shall not die.
Thou shalt beat him with the rod, and shalt deliver his soul from hell.
~ Prov. 23 : 13-4
The rod and reproof give wisdom: but a child left to himself bringeth his mother to shame.
~ Prov. 29 : 15
For whom the Lord loveth he chasteneth, and scourgeth every son whom he receiveth. If ye endure chastening, God dealeth with you as with sons; for what son is he whom the father chasteneth not? But if ye be without chastisement, whereof all are partakers, then are ye bastards, and not sons. Furthermore we have had fathers of our flesh which corrected us, and we gave them reverence: shall we not much rather be in subjection unto the Father of spirits, and live? For they verily for a few days chastened us after their own pleasure; but he for our profit, that we might be partakers of his holiness. Now no chastening for the present seemeth to be joyous, but grievous: nevertheless afterward it yieldeth the peaceable fruit of righteousness unto them which are exercised thereby.
~ Heb. 12 : 6-11
That was the teaching.
If some parents used those scriptures as license to abuse and 'beat' their children, perhaps so...but that isn't/wasn't the intent of the Biblical references, or the intent/position of FA/HEF. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 225
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Thursday, December 21, 2006 - 12:34 pm: |
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quote:I'm still irked over angel's post. To say that the leadership was involved or imply that any of them condoned sexual and physical abuse disgusts me. ......To suggest that they condoned or participated in the sexual abuse of children sickens and angers me.
....I don't have an opinion, other than this:
'I doubt it'.
Angel has a reticence to post personal details and names, yet insists upon this happening. If it is indeed so, she needs to come forward and identify the perp. That this has happened in the past with reference to the Holy Roman Catholic Church and it's priests is legendary in proportion....and they have not escaped the long arm of the law, after years and years either.
However, she has intimated that her own parents were complicit in covering up for and excusing the perp....so what evidence is there to actually prove this happened?
It is a rather forward and shocking sort of declaration, and by its' nature, sort of screams for explanation and proof.
For Angel, if her declaration is true, I feel sorry for her. if it is not, and or she can't prove it, it doesn't do much for her credibility.
My question would be why she would bring this up, if she couldn't produce evidence.
On one hand she could be seeking to simply vent her anger, betrayal and frustration, on the other, she could simply be trying to raise the chorus against FA/HEF up another notch.
I don't know, but I am in agreement, that if one is going to make public accusations, one ought to be willing to carry through with the entirety of the elements of discovery.
I do remember, however, HEF preaching on the issue of sexuality, and to the best of my recollection, the problem that he found himself confronting was with people who decided to become chaste and abstain from the act after marriage, and partners who complained about it.
..the stuff of ordinary marriage counseling....not incest, rape, etc.
...in any event, Angel, it looks like you need to put some substance to your accusations, if you intend to remain credible. |
ddbay
New member
Username: ddbay
Post Number: 1
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 205.188.116.10
| | Posted on Sunday, December 31, 2006 - 10:58 am: |
|
wow this interesting never knew u guys were out there too was a kid of one of the satellite churches in shelbyville in |
active_angel
New member
Username: active_angel
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 76.190.67.184
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 1:36 pm: |
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I've been gone for awhile and I apoligize. Obviously I missed a lot.
I've sat and read much of everyone's ideal's on here..and can honestly say as a christian woman..I am disgusted! This is not a site to help people that need it. And I can honestly say I'm ashamed of being an EX -freemanite. Extremely ashamed. And I will also go as far to say anyone defending FA or HEF on this site has got there wires crossed. I live for and love God.
Now as far as having to come on here and defend myself and the "allegations" of sexual abuse, that is bull. As a christian woman I do not feel it's necessary to slander any more than what has already been done. Ecspecially on here, and to complete strangers. If any of you are questioning my truth, maybe you should dig a little further into the internet. I will not give names on here. God sets forth his own judgment. And these "perps" have been dealt with. And are still being dealt with.
I would like to express my gratitude to those that defended me. You know who you are!
I believe one of the reasons god has allowed me to "OVERCOME" the things that I have is so that I could help the ones that are in need of it. I should be one messed up person. And no that is not due to my "Parents"! I had great parents, still do.
As far as remaining credible..... I don't care!
Because as far as I'm concerned many of the people on here are full of themselves. You just like to hear yourselves talk.
And God help the next person that comes to this site seeking help. And I pray for their sake that it wasn't one that was sexually abused by the leadership. Then what sort of steam would you blow out of your mouths then. Would you call them a liar?? God help you!! Because I can't!
spankings & beatings vs abuse : No I was beat or spanked whatever you freemanites want to call it, I know the difference. And Barn Kid I'm so sorry if I violated your tender senses. But get over it. It happens everyday in America. Ecspecially in cult related religions. And you can not defend this to me. IT was a cult. Ask anyone out in this normal world about FA and they'll tell you the same. CULT CULT CULT CULT
Following one leader, even if it's in the name of GOD. I believe the bible tells us to be wary of false prophets. What do you think Hobart was??
What I'm in shock of is that HEF may be dead but he's still got one heck of a hold on many of you. God help your children!!!
I don't directly blame HEF for the going ons of that congregation. People make there own choices. Some people are just plain messed up. And thus the results end up effecting other people. As such in this case.
NO NOTHING WAS PERMITTED - but it still happened.
And I hate to break freemanites hearts, but it was leadership!!!
I wish to remain anonymous, and I hope that you all could respect that. If I was to give out anymore details, that would make it easy for anyone to figure out who I am and all about my family. I realize that it's not an easy thing for many of you (to respect others). But I'm asking anyways.
Some of you need to look past your own noses.
And for some of you that want to question me further, why don't you look up some of the OHIO FA churches. Maybe you would get your answers.
I pray for you that are disillusioned! God help you, and your families. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 232
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 2:44 pm: |
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Angel....the disagreements that we have on this board, stem from mainly doctrinal issues. When one brings criminality into the stew pot, it becomes something else. It raises the bar, so to speak, or increases the level of what those who want to demonize FA and HEF to something greater than a religious matter. Healed and Odysseus want to focus on the issue of divine healing and legalism. You want to now focus on rape. Healed and Odysseus are arguing with reference to their understanding of scripture. You are arguing on the basis of what courts would call 'hearsay' , since there is no evidence or basis with which to establish the truth of the matter without your disclosure. Personally, I don't know whether what you are saying is true or false, because there is nothing to weigh it against. I am not drawing any conclusions whatsoever. It is not that I am judging what you say to be false, but I also cannot support you in that matter either. Even if you tell me what 'the facts' are, I am only hearing one side of a story. I am sorry for you, if it is indeed true.
2. Consider this: you came flying in here with public allegations of sexual misconduct among the leadership, refuse to tell anyone details of the problem in the same public way, and then vanish. Those are some pretty shocking revelations to all of us, even to those like Healed, who is adamantly against all things FA, and Barn Kid, who is not 'all PollyAnna about FA'. I have never heard of sexual misconduct among any of the members or the leadership of FA. Frankly, in my experience, that would have been unthinkable. My experience was not in Ohio, though. Nevertheless, I think that you are not recognizing the fact that you dropped a bombshell here; and you can't just do that and walk away like nothing happened, without backing it up, and then become haughty toward those who asked you to confirm your allegations.
3. You do care about how others perceive you ( your credibility ), or you wouldn't have gone to the trouble to refute me; though I sought no ill against you, only some sort of backup to your story. You again ask for others to respect you in your last paragraph. I haven't drawn any conclusions one way or the other about your allegations to sexual misconduct. I can say that I doubt it, based upon my own experience, but that isn't drawing a conclusion. I am going to simply put that issue aside, until such time as someone can bring forth some actual evidence. I recognize that that would be a difficult and distasteful matter; but that doesn't stop me from listening to what else you have to say though, and being respectful toward you in doing so. |
duncan
Intermediate Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 161
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 3:40 pm: |
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Hello, all.
I thought I might jump into this conversation to say that my father taught in a little house church in Ohio. It was not too far from Canton and Akron. He would preach once a month and there were about 15 or 20 people, as I recall. When we moved away, Mark Yotter took over preaching. That is my only knowledge of any Ohio church, and I know nothing ever went on there.
As for other sexual abuse, I am aware of a couple of cases at the "main" FA in Indiana, but they were not related to any leadership. I knew of this going on in the mid 80s, and based on a report I heard back in the mid 90s, one of the people involved was arrested for acts with young boys (one of which was a friend of mine). The persons initials are A.M. The other instant occurred with an older teenager who was involved with this person. I know this also to be fact.
Other than that, I have never heard of any leadership allegations until now. (Unless any leadership may have known of this person and refused to do anything.)
I am not going to condemn or question active angel, I will just say that I don't think for a minute that this type of thing was ever condoned by FA leadership.
Have a great day!
Duncan |
odysseus
Junior Member
Username: odysseus
Post Number: 41
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 74.133.86.124
| | Posted on Friday, January 05, 2007 - 3:51 pm: |
|
There was another ‘house’ Church in Ohio. It was in Celina. |
odysseus
Junior Member
Username: odysseus
Post Number: 42
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 74.133.86.124
| | Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 9:43 am: |
|
To be more specific this Pastor of this house Church in Celina, OH had his ministry blessed and had hands laid on him by none other the HEF. So please don’t give me this doo doo about leadership not involved. If you want detail I can give you detail. I used to go hunting with this man. I know his wife, I knew his children. Two of which are deceased.
Again, I’m not blaming Freeman; he had no knowledge of this. I’m sure if he did he would have dealt with this man promptly. Hobart Freeman, albeit screwed up in the faith message was an honorable man and wouldn’t countenance this kind of behavior. However there seems to be a lot of you out there that want to scramble to protect everything about FA, That’s curious.
Hey jump in Hombre and give us line and verse again, so you can make it all go away!
You guys better give active angel some latitude. The shame you feel after being sexually molested is something you can't imagine. You don’t want to talk about it and you feel responsible for the incident. I’ve dealt with people such as these and I feel concern towards them. No Hombre, they just can’t ‘move on’ like you like to say. They hurt inside and it takes time. What makes it worse is when they happen upon sites such as these and read what some of you loons say about HEF or FA.
Anyway I’m wasting my time here trying to get most of you to see reason. Just go ahead with your pathetic lives and live the way you believe.
(Message edited by odysseus on January 06, 2007) |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 168
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 121.113.63.152
| | Posted on Saturday, January 06, 2007 - 9:34 pm: |
|
If sexual abuse was going on, I never heard of it, but I could see some folks getting away with things that we got beat for. If my relative would of heard of it, I would of hoped that this would give them reason to break away from that mess, as it seems no matter where we moved to, there was always a "body" FA group to be found. We could never get away from it. Im sure, however, that my relative would of continued to support Freeeman as they do to this day, perhaps explaining that the sexual abuse is only a manifestation of satan trying to destroy the church. I see where Homy, once again, has backed up his explanation of beatings with scripture. Not to worry Homy, my spankings were not to be miscontrued by liberals as you say, mine were the real deal. Stripped naked and the rod not spared for sneakin out to listen to an old vaccum tube radio. Yes, I needed a spanking every now and then, but getting beat for some of the crazyness that came out of FA was overkill. I can read the scripture for myself Homy, and I noticed you quoted all Old Testament verses. I dont recall Jesus beating any children, but instead taking them in his arms and warning anyone who touches them or leads them astray the consequences. |
active_angel
New member
Username: active_angel
Post Number: 12
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 76.190.67.184
| | Posted on Monday, January 08, 2007 - 11:49 am: |
|
Thank you, Odysseus. You said a mouthful. More than what I could.
Yes.. I threw a monkey wrench by telling you about the sexual abuse & physical. WHY??
Because most of you on here still think that this way of life neither hurt or screwed any of us up. That this way of life was perfect. And if life wasn't for any certain individuals than it must have been their fault. Many of you still think that HEF and other leadership was perfect, or borderline. I think Healed has pretty much the right idea as far as the way it was with the leadership. Leardership could do know wrong. And children were never allowed to question or talk against any leadership. Imagine being a child that was going through these things. And I think odysseus gave you all enough information you need to see it for yourselves. Do your own research!!
NO - leadership wouldn't condone it would they. And I can say honestly that I don't know of any leadership that knew about it till after the fact. But what I am trying to say is that things weren't all posies and flowers like many like to make it out to be.
As far as the physical abuse goes...Spare the rod spoil the child ..yes! But to beat them until they can't move. To beat a child until they bleed. How many of you were beat by parents or others to the point of having large welts across your backside or wherever to where you couldn't even sit. How many of you cowered in a corner, awaiting your punishments.That's not the "physical abuse" I was refering to. But I would like to be heard in saying.. that's still physical abuse. Whether the "Church" condoned it or not. And most of the time (FA era) the harder you beat your kids, the better parent you must have been. Children should be seen & should be heard. If for anything to prevent what has happened. To let them know that it's okay to come forward when things happen, that just don't feel right. Odysseus was right when it was made mention of how the abused feels it's their fault.
Today in our schools (yes public) they try to prevent these types of things from happening. They teach the kids. During the FA era most of us were either being homeschooled or were put in another room when they had any sort of class discussions. And when, if ever, did we ever get schooled in how to handle a sexually related act. Our parents never even discussed sex, unless it was behind closed doors. Much less discuss it with their elementary age children.
And to address the comments of me never being on here... Well unlike like many of you I spend much of time either with my family or working. I refuse to be on here everyday waiting to pounce on everything said. I won't argue legalities or doctrine. Everyone has their own opinions. And the only way you can change a persons way of thinking is through the "grace of GOD". |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 241
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 1:23 pm: |
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quote:Not to worry Homy, my spankings were not to be miscontrued by liberals as you say, mine were the real deal. Stripped naked and the rod not spared for sneakin out to listen to an old vaccum tube radio. Yes, I needed a spanking every now and then, but getting beat for some of the crazyness that came out of FA was overkill. I can read the scripture for myself Homy, and I noticed you quoted all Old Testament verses. I dont recall Jesus beating any children, but instead taking them in his arms and warning anyone who touches them or leads them astray the consequences.
I am sorry for you that apparently, your parents were less than judicious in their use of corporal punishment. That I used OT references, does not discount the validity of the teaching after the advent of Christ, any more than it is now OK to commit murder, since that was an OT prohibition. Children after the advent of Christ are the same as they were before: undeveloped individuals who need attention, love & direction. One tool of direction is punishment. I am not going to debate the possibility of some people taking ideas to extremes, and punishing their children in anger; it happens just as much, if not more, outside of any church. To me, the issue you have here, is not one of correct Biblical teaching, but the lack of wisdom on the part of your parents. Correct me if I am wrong, but that seems to be to me, where the burden lies. You probably know that I'm not interested in hearing how it was Hobarts fault that you were 'beaten', since it was your parents who did it, misconstruing the teaching. I hope that you are a better parent than your own. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 242
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 209.254.77.23
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 09, 2007 - 1:25 pm: |
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quote:You guys better give active angel some latitude. The shame you feel after being sexually molested is something you can't imagine. You don’t want to talk about it and you feel responsible for the incident. I’ve dealt with people such as these and I feel concern towards them. No Hombre, they just can’t ‘move on’ like you like to say. They hurt inside and it takes time. What makes it worse is when they happen upon sites such as these and read what some of you loons say about HEF or FA.
First of all, why do you feel it necessary to become Angels protector/apologist?
Secondly, Yes, they can move on, and they must, as difficult as it may be. They MUST begin to take the road to healing or remain ever resentful. It looks as though to me, as if Angel has already taken steps to distance herself from that, and is well on her way to being free from that, through a maturing viewpoint.
Angel is no different than a number of other women I have met over the years, who were also abused during their youth; yet who had no connection with FA/HEF. You would be surprised how often that sort of thing happens. How would I know? Various friendships, including one with a county welfare department psychologist/case worker I met years after the FA/experience. Recently, I attended a meeting where a black youth minister was creating an outreach in an area of our city, that though being predominantly white, has the greatest incidence of incest and child molestation within the State of Indiana. Funny, but I don't recall FA ever having an outreach there. These sorts of common acts of human depravity, that occur everywhere, are not evidence of FA/HEF complicity or acceptance, implied or explicit, and really do not belong within the scope of these discussions. This is going to drive a few of you nuts, but as HEF used to say: 'the exception only proves the rule'. Which in this case is absolutely true. FA had as clean a track record as any other church or whatever, anywhere. FA was NOT a simile of David Koreshs' group, nor was it anything like Jim Jones group, which is the sort of ambience some are trying to create here, and is the reason why I, as well as others find it incumbent upon ourselves to defend not just FA/HEF...but the truth of the matter. If your outreach in Ohio was a freak show of epic sexual proportions, that is something that is entirely singular in experience, and wasn't my experience, nor was it the experience of many, many others. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 169
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.108.117.166
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 5:09 am: |
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"Correct me if I am wrong, but that seems to be to me, where the burden lies. You probably know that I'm not interested in hearing how it was Hobarts fault that you were 'beaten', since it was your parents who did it, misconstruing the teaching."
Well once again, the explanation is simple: The teachings that fell out of Freemans mouth were applied by its members. All things worldly such as sports were to be avoided and if a "rebelious" child got out of line with this, then the rod be not spared. What part of that do you not understand? What do you think that after Hobart gave a sermon on something like dating that everyone went out and defied him? Kids defied him, but as secretly as possible, or otherwise the rod be not spared. Get it? |
active_angel
New member
Username: active_angel
Post Number: 13
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 76.190.67.184
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 10, 2007 - 10:36 am: |
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Don't worry healed I get it!! Unfortunately you can't expect someone who tends to sweep the negative under the carpet to get where you are coming from.
There was a lot of negative that many either don't want to discuss. Or just don't want to hear it. As I've come to see on here is that few want to admit that there was a possibility that FA/HEF was indeed at fault for many things.
If a church/group breaks ties with the rest of the world, usually it's because they believe they have something to fear, or hide. In this case it was both. There is no excuse for the way FA became so boxed up.
And to Hombre, yes I'm an overcomer. But I don't know if I even like that word anymore. Some of you have a tendency to mince my words.
Yes, it's taken me years of heartache, pain, and even some destruction, but Gods been with me. For some of my friends and siblings it hasn't been an easy road. I was blessed in the fact that I "got over it". But you never really do get over it. And if you talked to your phychologist friend you would realize that. Yes you can move on. But few do. I'm left with picking up the pieces. Not everyone was born to be an "overcomer". Now once again, hear me. This is what I'm saying. I had a difficult past. Yes! But I'm not going to live my life in the past. I deal with many issues on a daily basis. And I fight to keep my life "normal". I would never want my childrens lives to be affected by me, or the things that have affected me. But many second generation ex-FAer's have been horribly affected. Where's the help for them. Some people in this world aren't as strong and resilient as others. Many of these ex's just prefer to be athiest. Just so they don't have to deal with the reality of all of this. So many of them won't even consider God, as a possibility in their lives. What of them!?? To many of them it was like God turned his back on them. Some have mental problems now. Sweep this under the rug.
If we are christians as many of us profess to be, then are we just going to push these people under the rug too. Are you going to reason away these issues??? Because the fact of the matter remains. You can whine about doctrine and legalities, but there are still people out there that were affected by this badly. Who's going to help them???? These people need to see the benefit of having God in there lives. If you stand for FA/HEF so much, what are you going to do to help these people?? OR are we all just good at flapping our jaws on here???? I think for most it's the latter!
Thought for the day : What have you done to make a real difference? |
passin_thru
New member
Username: passin_thru
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 12.214.100.32
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 1:34 am: |
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Healed, I’ve stumbled thru some of the thousands of posts. I just wanted to say, hats off to you! You have stuck with it and tried to show the way. You may not agree and that’s okay, but I believe you are God’s messenger of sorts.
Oh, you’re not perfect. Neither was Moses or any of the prophets. Still, God finds a purpose and use for each of His children. I believe you have a meaningful message that comes thru in your posts. I could never do what you do. Then again, it’s not my message.
Cultists suffer from Stockholm Syndrome. They fear the leader they follow. Here we have people who still fear a leader who’s long dead. They still can’t talk or even think rationally about him. They puff up tough to hide the fear. Many times, it’s fear that prevents them from being healed. |
passin_thru
New member
Username: passin_thru
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 12.214.100.32
| | Posted on Friday, January 19, 2007 - 7:30 pm: |
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It’s not the peace and love of Jesus that fills these postings. In fact, His name is rarely mentioned. Rather it’s the legacy of a dead man, a mere mortal who was swallowed by the grave. A man who couldn’t save anyone, not even himself. Freeman was a man now forgotten, except by a few cultists who still struggle with the aftermath. Their desire is the same as their leader’s (superiority, supernatural power and contempt).
There is no Biblical citing of people being ruined or dying as the result of following Christ’s gentle message. To be sure, many were persecuted and put to death. These were external attacks by the world. However, the teaching of the Lord does not bring confusion, destruction and death. This is doubly true, per the sufferings of innocent children.
It’s not accurate to contend that members bore sole responsibility. Hobart Freeman could have denounced the error and abuse. Instead, he taught, encouraged, coerced and led the way. He closed ranks and barred doors so it could continue unfettered.
There are only a few left who still profess allegiance and awe. A few more still wonder what went wrong. It’s as plain as the face that stares back in the mirror, but they refuse to see. It's just another tragic human failure. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 178
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 218.230.251.1
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 2:04 am: |
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One of the best post Ive read here. passin thru did a good job describing the mess. Your right, their (clowns such as Hombre) desire is only superiority supernatual power and contempt for those who didnt follow along. People who join the wiccans and other such nonsense are no different. |
mark1124
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 172
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.243.21.49
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 10:29 am: |
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Pass thru can pass on thru because he/she is deceived into thinking that Healed is God's messenger. Healed is not saved. But I guess God can use Healed if He wants to. He used a jack arse once and I guess He can do it again. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 179
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 219.165.159.89
| | Posted on Saturday, January 20, 2007 - 8:27 pm: |
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Well I see the spirits of contempt and superiority are manifesting themselves in Mark. He calls me a jack azz, in a very admonishing, sanitized way of course. Since "dumb" and "azz" are both in the bible, I could craft a way to call you a dumb azz but I havent done that yet have I? |
barn_kid
New member
Username: barn_kid
Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 69.19.14.27
| | Posted on Sunday, January 28, 2007 - 12:18 am: |
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If Angel's parents were freaks and decided that "Spare the rod and spoil the child" was an excuse for beating their children, they made that leap of their own accord, and not because Dr. Freeman encouraged that behavior in any way.
There are abusive parents in the world....and they all have their own excuses.
To state that Dr. Freeman was responsible for parents going out and not using restraint in their discipline is one thing. To state that the leadership of the church were some kind of sick Charles Manson type creeps who approved of physically and sexually abusing children is just flat untrue.
I will say that it should be considered that Dr. Freeman can simply not be held responsible for every crazy out there who may have had delusions of grandeur and had a start up church in a house out in Timbuktu somewhere. I'm familiar with Mark Yotter - and he's a very weird duck......no telling what that guy may have been doing. I had some contact with his daughter who had some suicidal tendencies when she was a teenager, and I swear those people are weird.....
but Dr. Freeman can't be held responsible for every weirdo who happened upon Faith Assembly, right? He can not control each guy who starts up a satellite church whose only qualification is that he's on Dr. Freeman's automatic tape list.
Surely people "get" that, right? |
micah
Member
Username: micah
Post Number: 67
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 71.32.17.141
| | Posted on Thursday, February 01, 2007 - 2:22 am: |
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I'm familiar with Mark Yotter - and he's a very weird duck......no telling what that guy may have been doing. I had some contact with his daughter who had some suicidal tendencies when she was a teenager, and I swear those people are weird.....
Im going to use that on my myspace. Priceless. I feel the kingdom coming to pass through those very words. (i know that im being intellectually unfair, a quote is the easiest thing to manipulate)
But I want to ask the question- Is it wise to defend a man?
Let us not be fools here.
(like thats actually possible) |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 180
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 219.164.184.130
| | Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 2:00 am: |
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I still find it fascinating that some of these people drop in and out to say Hi!, we remeber all those wonderful times at FA, but we have since moved on and found a new wordly life! Its like it was just a couple of years in high school or something. I dont remeber anything wonderful that came out of FA and I somtimes wonder how anything like that group could have exsisted, I mean things that went on were so bizarre compared to how I live now it really baffels me when it crosses my mind. For me it was a journey out of the depths of some murky hell, but perhaps I had different experiences than others. I aint looking for no sympathy, I just wanted closure. I would often think while having to listen to those tapes or sitting in a sermon, would this all be gone someday or only get bigger? At the time, the group was getting larger and more radical day by day. Now that it has all passed, I find it almost comical that some of the very hard core bible thumpers are the ones who out there living a life that was oppisite of what Freeman taught. Why couldnt it all ended when I was growing up? |
passin_thru
New member
Username: passin_thru
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 12.214.100.32
| | Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 4:09 am: |
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You have closure Healed, or at least you’re far down the road. You’ve accurately identified what Faith Assembly (FA) was, a murky hell. It was people thinking they had found some special prophet of God. They thought they could attain exaltation with special knowledge, thoughts and words. The apostles of the Bible fought Gnostic cults like FA. They utterly miss the point. Status with God is based on the heart, not on what I have to do to be great. If you wanna be great or think you are, you’re not.
'Overcomer' is a term used by some to denote an elite set of devoutly religious people who have reached some higher plane of Christian existence. Most times, it's just egotists who think themselves better than everyone else. They shun unbelievers and 'ordinary' Christians. They can be viewed much like Pharisees. They forget whom Christ chastised so often. They forget who had Him crucified. If there is such a thing as 'true' overcomers, they certainly aren't braggarts with holier-than-thou attitudes.
Here we have cultists who believe they are overcomers. They conceive themselves to be the last few remaining faithful on earth. They still believe their beloved, Hobart Freeman, lived and breathed the Word of God. Among other things, he taught them to hate doctors and believe all medicine is of the devil. They are to rely solely on supernatural faith healing.
Yet, they now go to doctors and no longer follow the edicts FA once handed down from on high. They suffer all the sins and ailments common to man, some even more than usual. If he weren’t dead, Freeman would cast them out as lukewarm, worldly and carnal.
I'm not the hypocrite. You so called overcomers are! Do as your infallible Freeman commanded some twenty-five years ago. Take off homosexual running shoes. Forbid cake mixes. Throw away the televisions. Stop going to doctors and dentists. Will away those cavities. Discard those eyeglasses. Let your children die from curable maladies. Turn against your family and friends.
As God is our witness, Freeman's overcomer club dues are way too high. I'll stick with the Bible's plan. Jesus already paid the dues. |
mark1124
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 173
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.243.39.127
| | Posted on Saturday, February 03, 2007 - 6:21 am: |
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A hahahahahahahaha you guys make me laugh. You poor babies. Let me play you a song on the world smallest violin. Healed. You said you aren't looking for sympathy. You won't get any from me.
And passthru...why don't you get just passthru and the two of you can go on and live your worldly ungodly lifestyles together.
Just because you two could not handle the word of God because it was too strong for you and you could only live on the milk and pablum (you still do, BTW) doesn't mean that what was taught wasn't true. Don't forget that what Jesus taught is not what is being taught in your average, "normal" church today. Jesus taught total obedience to Him. The things that Jesus taught made a lot of people leave Him because the word was too strong. I suppose if Freeman taught the watered down version of the gospel like what is being taught in about 99.9% of the churches today, you would be saying that Freeman was a great teacher. So why don't you just admit that you could not handle what was taught because the word was too strong for you two who have been overcome and go back to your pablum and milk while the rest of us who want to go on with the Lord enjoy the strong meat of the word and go on and grow to maturity in the things of the Lord while the two of you can remain babies. That what you two are...babies...always crying about things that went on at FA. For goodness sakes, man...grow up! You two are getting boring. |
micah
Member
Username: micah
Post Number: 68
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 71.32.17.141
| | Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 12:36 am: |
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but you still respond! cant be too boring then. You actually took the time to log on to the website, click on the thread, read the posts, engage in blowhard typing for at least 2 minutes, put your username and password in, hit the preview and post button, then the post button,..... but you decided to end it with "You two are getting boring" ???
Did someone hold a gun to your head?
I think you enjoy this as much as we do. |
mark1124
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 174
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.243.39.127
| | Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 2:03 am: |
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I think I should have said, "You three." |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 181
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 60.46.158.197
| | Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 2:41 am: |
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Yeah Im sure brother Mark was playing his song on his smallest violin when folks were dying, probally joining the chant about how they didnt have faith. What I like about Mark is that he doesnt hold back, so we can see the true lunancy that is hiding behind the other dieharders smokescreen. I like this - "Just because you two could not handle the word of God because it was too strong for you and you could only live on the milk and pablum (you still do, BTW) doesn't mean that what was taught wasn't true" Well actually I got "weaned" off the milk quite a few years ago Mark. I was fed the "meat" aka fed some B.S. about how once the tooth rotted from decay another one would replace it or how once the glasses were taken off, I could still belive and pass the eye exam at DMV. Im wondering what it is that attracts our brother Mark to all things FA, even to this day. |
mark1124
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 175
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.243.39.127
| | Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 10:38 am: |
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Healed....You asked, "Im wondering what it is that attracts our brother Mark to all things FA, even to this day."
I will be most happy to answer you, since you took the time out of your busy day to write.
The answer is...the teaching from FA was anointed and scriptural. How many churches that you know can boast that it preaches the whole counsel of God like FA did. You name me a denomination and I can tell you where they are off scripturally. You can't say that about FA.
Don't get hung up on the deaths and other things so called "legalistic". Focus on if HEF taught was scriptural or not. I dare say that you will search in vain to find anything that was not scriptural. I know you will give the lie that it was HEF's interpretation. Nonsense. You can't fool me on that one Healed. I have heard that line before.
Anyway...enough of this foolishness. Everything you say is not of God anyway and you won't listen even if a miracle happened. You wouldn't believe that HEF was scriptural even if God knocked you in the head and told you Himself. And I know what you are going to say so don't bother. I have read it many times before and you are wasting your time and mine.
So I hope you are enlightened as to why I am still "all things FA". If FA and HEF were heretical, then I would not listen to the tapes any more. But I have been set free from marshmellow, box mix Christianity and have forsaken the cookies and kool-aid that is present in most churches. I am grateful for the teachings that I have received because they have made me more discerning of what I hear and has made more of a disciple of Jesus Christ. The teachings have shown me how God wants me to live my life in this sinful world.
Need I say more? I guess you get the message. |
passin_thru
New member
Username: passin_thru
Post Number: 4
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 12.214.100.32
| | Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 4:25 pm: |
|
Not always but sometimes it’s easy to see why certain people are attracted to false doctrines like that of Hobart Freeman. It has nothing to do with religion. It has nothing to do with truth.
Rather, they have a personal need for superiority and control. I would imagine it spills over and ruins their personal life, not just their religion. They only seek relationships and activities where they have authority. They have no interest or use for people and things they can’t boss around, other than to belittle when given the opportunity. They take pride in always being right and the other guy always being wrong. They disdain weakness and suffering.
They need a warped view of Christianity that allows them to be the natural person they are at heart (cold, distant and uncompassionate). It is their way of coping with their own inadequacy and fears. They think they have strength. They think they are above needing help. This is the ‘strong word’ Hobart Freeman gives them, validation.
Sometimes our interpretation of the truth is made to fit. Far be it from us to be content to simply worship one who let people spit, slap and mock Him. |
mark1124
Intermediate Member
Username: mark1124
Post Number: 176
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 71.243.39.127
| | Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 8:49 pm: |
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pass-thru...name me some false doctrines that Freeman taught. You'll search in vain to find any. But since you brought it up, I would like some examples.
Thank you |
micah
Member
Username: micah
Post Number: 70
Registered: 12-2004
Posted From: 71.32.17.141
| | Posted on Sunday, February 04, 2007 - 11:57 pm: |
|
Mark,
would you say that missinterpreting the bible is propegating false doctrine? |
passin_thru
New member
Username: passin_thru
Post Number: 5
Registered: 1-2007
Posted From: 12.214.100.32
| | Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 12:53 am: |
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Mark, I’m not your Bible answer man. If you really want to know, you can do the research and gain an objective understanding. However, as long as you judge everything against the words of Freeman, it’s all for naught. In another twenty-five years, you’ll be at the same spot you are today. You’ll be asking the same questions, harboring the same contempt for others, still believing you and Freeman are spiritually superior.
Here’s a hint, it’s striving to have the humble, righteous and loving heart of Jesus that matters most. It’s loyalty to Christ, not loyalty to any mortal clergy. Good Lord, nowadays most of the TV big names are charlatans and greedy con artists.
Anyway, the legacy of a dead man continues on. His errant teachings killed many, including him. Many more FA members suffered confusion and broken lives.
Contained in these threads is the fruit of Dr. Hobart E. Freeman. |
healed
Intermediate Member
Username: healed
Post Number: 182
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 220.108.112.44
| | Posted on Monday, February 05, 2007 - 5:02 am: |
|
Mark is still wearing his blinders, that is why even though I have pointed out several errors in Hobarts doctrines, he still comes back with the same response. Mark interprets the bible the way Hobart did. It will take time to unravel where Hobart went wrong, but it can be done. I go back and read through his books and find time after time where he twisted the scriptures to fit his own interpretation. This radical departure from common sense is what got him kicked out of the Seminary he was a professor at and cost the lives of several members of his congregation. |
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