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Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 3:24 pm: | 
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Give me some feedback. Is this organization (church ) a cult or what. What's the deal. I really do not feel comfortable. Memebers Who calls there (pastor)bishop/leader-- Sweet Daddy. I feel all praises should go to a higher power( the one who made heaven and earth). Oh don't get me started the sun ,moon ,night and day. Am I missing something here or not. It grieves my spirit. Oh somebody help me with this thing. |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 4:49 pm: |
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There is some data at
http://religiousmovements.lib.virginia.edu/nrms/daddy_grace.html |
Anonymous
| | Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 3:05 pm: |
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Church members sent to jail for whipping kids
House of Prayer pastor says he'll follow the Bible
Steve Visser and Jill Young Miller - Staff
Friday, October 18, 2002
The outspoken Rev. Arthur Allen Jr. was noncommittal Thursday after a jury convicted him and four followers of cruelty to children for whippings at his church.
Asked if he would follow a judge's order to stop advising parents to whip disobedient children, Allen said, "I'm going to follow the Ten Commandments," and would say no more.
The 70-year-old House of Prayer pastor --- who has often quoted the Bible to justify the whippings --- faced the possibility of up to 20 years in prison. He stood with hunched shoulders as Fulton County Superior Court Judge T. Jackson Bedford sentenced him to 90 days in jail and 10 years of probation.
Allen and four members of his congregation were convicted Thursday and sentenced to jail for the whippings in February 2001 that brought national attention to their small church in northwest Atlanta and touched off debates about corporal punishment.
Bedford said the five defendants clearly love their children, but they "crossed the line" when they badly bruised two boys.
"Sadly as it seems, I'm in the business of protecting children from their parents," Bedford told the court. "What happened here was not about disciplining children. It was about, for lack of a better word, beating children."
The jury took about 19 hours, starting Monday, to convict Allen for overseeing the whippings at the House of Prayer. Allen has run the church for 35 years and is deeply involved in his followers' lives --- from overseeing punishment of their children to helping parents financially. He said his church doesn't advocate corporal punishment for every offense but some children need a "meaningful whipping."
State child welfare officials have called the House of Prayer whippings among the worst cases of child abuse to cross their desks --- primarily because the punishments were done at the church at Allen's direction by men who restrained the boys by their arms and legs, suspending them in the air as they were beaten.
During the trial, Allen acknowledged parents brought children to the plain-brick church for punishment. He said men in the church restrained the youngsters to protect them before whipping their buttocks and backs with a belt.
Allen and the other four church members on trial chose to represent themselves before the judge, declining repeated efforts by Bedford to persuade them to accept help from lawyers.
On Thursday, the judge also ordered Allen to pay an $8,000 fine. He sentenced Charles Ogletree, 30, convicted of wielding the belt, and Emanuel Hardeman, 37, convicted of holding a boy during a whipping, to 75 days in jail, 10 years of probation and $2,500 fines each.
Bedford sentenced Sharon Duncan, 41, to 20 days in jail, five years of probation and a $250 fine, and her 45-year-old husband, David Duncan Sr., to 40 days in jail, eight years of probation and a $500 fine. The Duncans were convicted for bringing their 10-year-old son to the church for a whipping.
The men were told to report to the Fulton County Jail next Friday to begin serving their sentences. Sharon Duncan is to report to jail after her husband returns home to take care of their children.
Bedford warned the defendants he could put them in prison for years if they don't follow his orders on discipline. "I do not want that," the judge said. "You do not want that. I don't think anybody in here wants that."
The judge ordered them to restrict any spanking to their own children, generally only in the presence of immediate family members, to use only an open hand on a child's buttocks during such punishment and to complete an intensive counseling program. He banned them from bringing children to the House of Prayer for punishment and from advising or assisting other parents with punishment.
Among them, the defendants have 18 children.
District Attorney Paul Howard said the sentences would protect the children from the discipline of well-meaning but overzealous parents.
"What I want them to do is stop beating these children," Howard said.
The district attorney said he hoped the threat of serious prison time would restrain Allen and his followers --- this time. In 1993, Allen was convicted of a misdemeanor in DeKalb County for ordering the whipping of a 16-year-old girl. He served 20 days in jail.
Six more House of Prayer members, including the parents of a boy who was whipped, still face trial, possibly later this year. Bedford ordered two trials to help manage the number of defendants.
The next group could avoid trial and jail if they agree to modify their use of corporal punishment, Howard said.
But David Wilson, one of the defendants, shook his head when asked if he would agree to the district attorney's demands in the wake of the guilty verdicts of his pastor and four other church members.
"We're still going to trial," he said. "It's up to the Lord, you know."
The criminal investigation began after Ricky Wilson Jr. and David Duncan Jr. showed up at C.W. Hill Elementary School with welts and bruises on Feb. 28, 2001. Social workers took the boys from their parents and soon seized 47 other House of Prayer children and put them in foster care and group homes. Police arrested Allen and the others.
The pastor's advocacy of the belt to correct unruly children sparked a blaze of publicity. Within a week, Allen went from being the pastor of an obscure nondenominational church in a poor part of Atlanta to a controversial figure in the national news. He appeared in People magazine, on Dateline NBC, on the Sally Jesse Rafael show.
And while many people pilloried the church's members as brutes, others found Allen and his followers to be blue-collar, salt-of-the-earth parents with well-behaved children.
David Duncan Sr., a welder, and Ogletree and Hardeman, landscapers, take pride in providing for their families.
Allen comes off as a caring, if domineering, man. He draws no salary from his church, and his lifestyle is far from lavish. He worked as a landscaper and house painter until retiring. He has raised money in recent years by selling land he inherited, and his followers say he has bought several of them houses and cars and has helped them keep their marriages together.
But then there are the pictures.
The prosecution's photos showed the jury two badly bruised boys who felt the lash in church for misbehaving in school. Allen told jurors whipping is a last-resort punishment, and it has to be painful to be meaningful. Otherwise the child will not fear it.
"I say, 'If you do that, you'll get a whipping,' " the pastor said. "And a light seems to go off in their head." Allen and other church members contended the state doctored photos to make the boys' bodies appear brutally bruised. They called to the witness stand House of Prayer members who said they saw Ricky's whipping in church, and they claimed he wasn't hurt as badly as the photos show. When longtime church member Carolyn Ruth saw the photos, she looked shocked and said, "This is impossible."
Allen has said his black congregation's children have tougher skin and need a tougher blow because they haven't been "free" as long as whites and have too much "Africanism" in them, testified Ted Hall, a lawyer with the state Division of Family and Children Services.
Also, Allen advocates marriage for 14-year-old girls to protect them from becoming unwed mothers, living in sin and going on welfare.
Sandra Lang, who grew up in the same neighborhood as many of the church members, said, "We used to laugh at them, going to church to get beat."
The 35-year-old minister with Communities Opposing the Powers of Satan Ministries in Marietta now views House of Prayer as a loving flock being led by a wolf. Lang called Allen's sentence too lenient. "This cult needs to be broken," she said.
Social workers have returned all but six of the 49 children seized from church members. Remaining in foster care are children of the Duncans and of Yolonda and Ricky Wilson Sr., who are to go on trial later.
Thursday's verdict may help the Duncan children come home, said Hall, lead attorney in the Juvenile Court cases over custody of the children. The parents now must abide by punishment guidelines the Department of Family and Children Services has long tried to impose, he said.
"The Duncans will be on probation and under strict rules of conduct," Hall said. "We now have a safety net for those children --- apparently."
Allen's leadership may well determine whether the next case goes to trial and whether his co-defendants successfully complete probation. He had accused the government of ganging up on his small church and trampling his congregation's rights to discipline their children in accordance with their beliefs.
The 130 members of the close-knit church appear deeply loyal to Allen and to his teachings. Many of them are the grown children of men and women the pastor recruited from some of Atlanta's toughest housing projects when he started the House of Prayer in 1966.
Earlier this week, it was clear where their hearts were. While waiting outside the courtroom for a verdict, Allen passed the time preaching to about 40 followers. He proudly recounted what he told the jury when he gave the defendants' closing argument.
"I told them that we chastise our children," the pastor said.
"You don't love them if you don't ---" he stopped, waiting for someone to finish his sentence.
"Chastise them!" church members responded.
TIMELINE
2001
> Feb. 28: A first-grader at an Atlanta elementary school complains to his teacher about back pain. Authorities investigate and discover that earlier in the month two boys had been suspended in the air and whipped by adults at the House of Prayer, a 130-member church on Hollywood Road.
> March 9: Social workers remove six children from two House of Prayer families. Over the next several weeks, state officials take dozens more children into protective custody.
> March 28: Stunning a Juvenile Court judge, House of Prayer members walk out of court, rejecting an offer that would have returned the children if parents agreed to restrict their disciplinary methods.
> May 7: Police seize seven children from a House of Prayer family. Television stations broadcast the seizures. Forty-nine children of House of Prayer families are in state foster care.
> May 16: The Rev. Arthur Allen Jr. and other church members again reject a proposal that would have returned the children to their families. State officials wanted church members to allow independent monitors to supervise discipline, agree to spank only by hand, stop spankings by other church members and stop marriages of girls younger than 16.
> May 25: After state officials acknowledge that no more than five children had suffered physical harm, a judge sends 35 House of Prayer children home to their parents. The rest are held for additional evaluation.
2002
> Jan. 18: Fulton County grand jury indicts 11 House of Prayer members, including Allen, on 14 counts of cruelty to children and aggravated assault.
> June 24: Allen and other defendants reject a plea bargain that would have meant five years on probation.
> Aug. 15: A judge releases two children to their parents. Several others had been released during preceding weeks. Six children remain in state custody.
> Oct. 7: Trial begins.
> Thursday: Fulton County jury convicts Allen and other church members of cruelty to children, a felony.
extract from http://www.accessatlanta.com/ajc/epaper/editions/friday/news_d3faba71c4c3406510d1.html |
Cuela
| | Posted on Monday, November 18, 2002 - 9:34 pm: |
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Ok, first, let me address the whipping kids issue ... that was NOT THE UNITED HOUSE OF PRAYER FOR ALL PEOPLE ON THE ROCK OF THE APOSTLIC FAITH. There are many churches that have the name, "HOUSE OF PRAYER." However, the United House of Prayer for all People is a totally different organization within itself.
Secondly, the United House of Prayer for all People is not a cult. It is a church. Our bishop is Biship S.C. Madison, he is our spiritual leader. We believe in God and Jesus Christ, we are not, I repeat, NOT A CULT.
Where are you from??? I would like to invite you the the United House of Prayer ... depending on where you live, I can direct you to the nearest House of Prayer, that is if you're seriously curious, to the understanding of the United House of Prayer. There a pastor or elder can assist you in answering your questions more thoroughly.
We call our bishop, our spirtual leader, "Daddy", the same as a catholic or jewish person would say "Father" or "Rabbi." It's a pet name for the spirit. The same for Jesus Christ. Christ is the spirit, Jesus is his birth name. In no way, shape or form, do we WORSHIP our bishop. He is a prophet, like Peter, Paul, and all the others of the bible. He's our leader to what Jesus said he would send us.
Please email me (KennedyT@temple.edu) , I would really, truly, honestly, love to speak more with you on your understanding of the United House of Prayer. Anything we do or say can be backed up by the Holy Bible ... Kings James version of course .... so have one handy! Keep an open mind and pray for understanding. I will be glad to help you understand.
Oh, did I forget to mention .... I am a member of the United House of Prayer for All People Church of the Rock of the Apostolic Faith.
If it doesn't have this title I just gave you ... it's not the House of Prayer.k
*smiles*
Yours in Grace! |
Brandon Davis
| | Posted on Thursday, January 16, 2003 - 4:42 pm: |
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I am sorry for what people have told you about the United House of PRayer for all people it is a lovely church. I went there as a teen and I really appreciated the way that bisho madison treated me. THe only reason and let me say it again the only reason that I am not there is because I moved with my mother if I had a choice I would have chosen to stay at the house of prayer. It taught me how to love my friends and my gift of song. I was feeling really insecure about my gift because I felt different because nobody else in the family had it but they taught me how to love my gift for god was the one who gave it to me so before you start to criticize the church go there yourself and see what they have to offer. We worship the same god as every one else does. Please pray my strength in the lord that he may use me to go out and do his perfect will. If you have any replies then email me at www.davis_brandon2004@yahoo.com. |
Anonymous (151.199.242.169)
| | Posted on Saturday, March 27, 2004 - 2:40 am: |
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Hi,
From birth until about the age of fourteen, I was a member of the United House of Prayer for All People (UHOP). The organization was founded by Charles Grace, fondly called "Daddy Grace", by the members. He preferred to be called such because the members originally called him Father Grace. He strongly opposed this because of his competition for members and status with then "Father Divine". Daddy Grace was the bishop of the organization until his death in 1960. My grandmothers on both my paternal and maternal side were among his early members and deeply loved Daddy Grace and swore to his divine rights and gifts. He was believed to be a prophet and great healer and the members strongly followed his command without question because he was thought to be God's instrument in the last days. In fact, days after Daddy Grace died many then members thought he would be resurrected as Christ was and had watch services.
The "church" was and still is thought by members to be God's "main" church, and to some, God's only true church. The UHOP tries to support this idea by using the biblical verse Isaiah 56:7 and from there much of the church's tradition,interior building structure ie "holy mountain" and rallying points thrive. As with Daddy Grace, many of the members believe that God's Holy Spirit was passed from God the organization's succeeding bishops and therefore salvation is only obtained by believing in, and calling on the title "Daddy" for salvation. When I was a member Grace's successor, Daddy McCollough, was called by many "the Savior" instead of Jesus Christ. Some were even bold enough to preach, and claim that Jesus' work to done and that "Daddy" was carrying on God's work. It is well documented that even Daddy Grace made such claims, playing on words, and teasing scripture to direct their precept toward his divine right. In fact, many of their worship songs replace the name of Jesus with the title "Daddy". So if one were to sing "Oh how I love Jesus....", in the UHOP it would be changed to "Oh how I love Daddy..." Jesus is preached but to many he is second to the bishop even though they honor Christ with a portrait in every church. Currently, their bishop Daddy Madison is looked toward with the same devotion. Also, the UHOP is a works based organization instead of faith based, wherein raising money for the organization is a large part of earning your salvation from God. The membership will try desperately to raise funds throughout the year to become part of certain classes ie. "G-Class" in order to gain a particular status before God and the organization. In the early days of the UHOP raising money and displaying it creatively greatly pleased Daddy Grace and built his multi million dollar kingdom. So working to please the bishop continues to be a tradition with the organization. This is in direct conflict with biblical principles taught in Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 4:5, and Titus 3:5 to name a few verses. The members usually choose to argue, that faith without works is dead, which is true, but true believers work because they love Christ not get salvation. There is a lot of scripture twisting that takes place in the UHOP and many of the parishoners are too stuck in the UHOP's tradition to properly search out and reflect on the true meaning of the God's word. There are a lot of kind and sincere people in the United House of Prayer for All People, Church on the Rock of the Apostolic Faith but they are sincerely wrong in their approach to God. I have to disagree with the previous responders, the UHOP is a cult. Many of its members would argue, but historically, and at present the legacy continues. |
Regina Walker (205.188.117.20)
| | Posted on Tuesday, March 30, 2004 - 10:38 pm: |
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Peace!
I am a new member to the united house of prayer for all people in harrisburg under apostle commodore, my uncle floyd richardson and my aunt saint nelvina richardson. My husband and my baby joined last year, there is so much to learn, we have been different churches and you really can't feel the spirit. But at the house of prayer, when you here the band play you can feel the Lord Jesus enter that place. You may come feeling down but when service is over, you are lifted an jumping or shouting for joy. My husband joined the royal guards and I joined the willing workers. We have a 1st year anniversary on May 15, 2004. It is just 7 of us in the club so if anybody have any ideals for the invited guests, speakers, or the program please let me know, I am very new to this.
Grace! |
member of UHOP in Eliz. City, NC (68.169.53.193)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 06, 2004 - 1:47 am: |
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Peace,
I am a member of The United House of Prayer For All People the one located in Elizabeth City, NC. This is a message to anyone who might not understand the House of Prayer. First of all we are not a cult, and we do not worship our bishop. We give all praise and worship to our Lord Jesus Chirst. We also thank Jesus for sending us our leader and spritual advisor here on earth Bishop S.C. Madison, known to members of the house of prayer as Daddy Madison. We members of the house of prayer know him to be a holy prophet chosen by God. Jesus said that he was going away and that he was going to send us another comferter. Jesus also said that if you receive who ever He sends that you receives Him. That is why we call him Daddy Madison. The word "Daddy" is a nickname for the Christ spirit that is in the natural man "S.C. Madison". The Catholics uses the words Father and Pope (which means poppa} and it is no big deal, but when people hear the word Daddy said in the United House of Prayer for All People they all of A sudden can't understand. That is mainly because they are not looking at it from a spritually point of view. For anyone who don't understand the United House of Prayer I am asking you to go and attend a service to anyone near you. When you go ask God to open up your heart and mind and ask Him to give you spiritual eyes that you may see everything that take place from the spritual point of view. I invite anyone who reads this that don't understand the House of Prayer to please go to a service, and if you go and you have any kind of questions don't be afraid to ask the pastor about the quetions that you may have I know that he will be more than happy to talk and explain anything with you concerning The United House of Prayer For All People. I pray that someone will read this that might not undestand the House of Prayer and by reading this and visiting a House of Prayer service that they will get a better understand of The United House of Prayer For All People.
Isaiah 56:7 |
Keisha Gardner (192.251.125.85)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 12:38 pm: |
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I am a member of the United House of Prayer for All People in Washington DC (Anacostia) and my father is also the Pastor of Greenville NC House of Prayer for All People. Let me just put this question out there for all of the people who say we are a cult and so fourth. Do you honestly think that God would allow one man to send millions and millions of people to hell if what we were doing was not right? You can ask anything you care to know about what you feel is not right and I guarentee you we can back everything from Daddy to love gifts to rallys and so fourth up in the bible. One thing that you have to understand is that if you believe everything in the bible and I do mean everything then you would believe it when the bible says "My house shall be called an house of prayer for all nations" So that means his house should not be called Holy Kingdom Baptist Church and so on. You talk about us being a cult but believe me we are not a cult and not only that we don't pay anyone a salary to preach to us not even S.C Madison "Dad" as I call him, not only that people take the word Daddy out of context when in reality you don't even have to call him Dad you can simply call him Bishop Madison just like you call your preacher Reverend Joy or whatever his name may be. If you read your bible as you say you do then you would know that Reverend means equalvilant to God and that you have no problem with but the Daddy word you do.
S.C Madison tells the people you don't have to call him Daddy especially if you don't see the spirit that dwells within so don't think we have to cal him anything other then S.C Madison. The HOPFAP is a free will and the bible says that the HOPFAP is not for everyone If you feel you have a light then let it shine but please don't down something you have not tried and given a chance.
I love you my sisters and brothers and I wish nothing but peace and grace upon you.
Yours in Grace |
Anonymous (69.69.209.95)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 6:24 pm: |
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Well, everything that everyone is saying is all good, but can someone explain to me what is "G-class, kings, queens, and terms like that used in the UHOPFAP? Another thing, why is your Bishop so flashy? I attended the House Of Prayer in ATL with a friend of mine and when the Bishop came in he was guarded by a few guards like he was a celebrity or something. I am not knocking anyone's faith or anything because I don't believe in knocking what I don't understand. I am trying to understand because I have heard a lot of negative and downright scary things about this organization. And another thing: Why does everyone shout the same way? I am not going to lie, it did seem like a ritual or something. Please don't get upset with me I am just trying to understand the deal with the House Of Prayer because it is easy to assume that it is a cult when you are an insider going to a worship service for the first time having heard all of the negative things I've heard with no one to clear them up. Please explain! |
Anonymous (69.69.209.95)
| | Posted on Thursday, April 08, 2004 - 9:07 pm: |
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I posted a message earlier this evening and I went back to see if anyone had replied and that is when I discovered my mistake. I meant to say when you are an outsider going to the House Of Prayer for the first time. Thank You. |
Anonymous (151.199.237.170)
| | Posted on Friday, April 09, 2004 - 10:31 pm: |
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I can answer several of your questions. I was once an active member of the United House of Prayer for All People as a deacon and band member. My grandparents before me were faithful members during the time when Daddy Grace began the movement. I’ve heard countless stories of Daddy Grace’s prophetic power from people that truly loved him. While I was a member, Walter McCollough was bishop. Currently, I have friends and relative that are still involved. I think I can give you some insight on the UHOP. Please keep in mind that the UHOP relies on the cult’s tradition above everything. With each bishop things change slightly, but the organization’s beliefs, and traditions have changed minimally.
Isaiah 56:7 - This a favorite verse of the UHOP to establish their credibility as a legitimate movement of God. They stand on that verse like a rock but are quite ignorant of other verses that give the Christ’s Church different names.
Jesus’ church is a spiritual house, a body of believers, a royal priesthood, a holy nation according to 1 Peter 2:4-10. In fact, there are more places in scripture that call His church the “church of God” than the “house of prayer” See Acts 20:28, 1 Corinthians. 1:2, 10:32, 15:9; Galatians 1:13; 1 Timothy 3:5. When God spoke of the house of prayer, he was speaking of the temple. This is place where Jews brought their sacrifices of lambs, doves, goats, and bulls. This is also the place where Jesus drove out moneychanger with cords.
The organization claims it has three million members and that simply is not true. They continue to say this because it has been traditionally said. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons), another cult, has roughly three million members world wide and that is with a sophisticated missions program. The UHOP does not have an extensive missionary program. To have a million members is huge and the United House of Prayer doesn’t come close.
Leadership, title, and creed- Traditionally, the UHOP as called their bishops “Daddy” claiming that the Pope has a title etc. but to my knowledge Catholics don’t call on the Pope for salvation or healing. And if they did, they’d be wrong. Instead, they call on Mary and I have a problem with that too. The key to understanding the UHOP’s commitment to their bishop can be cleared up by reading their creed. In the creed, it states that we believe in one leader over God’s kingdom. This leader is their bishop. At this point they seriously believe God sent his Holy Spirit to embody the bishop and to “seek the Holy Spirit” (something the Bible never tell us to do) you must call on “Daddy” to receive the Holy Ghost. Usually, the person receives salvation when they speak in tongues. In their understanding, speaking in tongues is a gift given to you by the God and serves as an indicator that the person is saved or receives God’s salvation. This is clearly a violation of many Holy Scriptures---Romans 10:9.
Also, when they pray they always end their prayers “in Jesus’ name through Grace”. Amen”. They also end letters with “Yours is Grace”. This was started in the early days of the UHOP because Daddy Grace said that Jesus was on vacation and you had to come through him to get to God. Jesus just wasn’t enough and again today’s members carry on the tradition without thoroughly researching the history.
Shouting- I have never noticed that the people “shout” all the same. It’s funny that you should mention that because my wife noticed the same thing.
Music- The UHOP is renowned for its brass bands. Many of the bands have received recognition for their talent. Man, depending on the band they can play. Even though I am no longer a member, I still remember the music of some of my favorite bands. Their music is a drawing card for many. It attracts outsiders easily and therefore they use it as often as they can. Some bands have been known to play on the street and they easily draw a crowd. I’ve made an interesting observation. All Houses of Prayers are encouraged to have a band because it “moves the spirit”. It appears the size of local membership is connected to the size and skill of the band. Usually, the larger “Houses” have the better bands. It really drives the interest of the membership. Most of the members are not very interested in the Word of God, though they would argue differently, thus there is low attendance for Sunday school and higher attendance during the regular service. If the band is there more people make there way to service. The UHOP is a very emotional place of worship.
G-class and etc.- Each auxiliary club within the UHOP tries to raise the most money for the organization to receive recognition by the bishop. Thus, there are certain classes or status levels a club can reach for to receive recognition. Remember, the bishop is considered a prophet, and a holder of God’s blessings, so if he recognizes your club its hardest working members will be blessed. I have witness some of these clubs employ the strangest and contradictory means of gaining money for the “kingdom” such as selling beer at stadiums. In short, if you please the bishop, you please God. During a particular week in May, they have special session in Washington D. C. where it is announced which auxiliary club raised the most money for the United House of Prayer for All People. And of course, quite a bit of this money is used to provide the bishop with a life of luxury. At one time, (I am not sure if this is still practiced) when the bishop came to town for a special evening service while groups were singing maids would collect dollars held up by members which were taken directly to the bishop. The bishop, in turn, upon identifying where the money came from would point at the member to recognize his donation. This is considered a blessing. One of the clubs is called the Royal Guard. Each state with the UHOP organization has some. It is their job to provide security for the bishop while he is in town visiting during their special evening service.
I’m sorry for such a long dissertation, but if you ask, I’ll tell. Don’t get caught in the trap of Satan follow Christ and him only. I pray for the people of the UHOP because they really believe they are right and had it not been for the mercy of God through the Lord Jesus Christ I would still be there. |
Member, UHOP- Atlanta, GA (152.163.252.129)
| | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 12:34 am: |
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PEACE to All Members and Prospective Members!
GOD has a HOUSE (NOT A CHURCH) that he dwells in, The House of Prayer for All People. (ISAIAH 56:7) The TRUE Church can be found within you, once you have been filled with the Holy Ghost.
"Before you criticize our FAITH, KNOW your BIBLE."- Sis. A. Cameron
The House of Prayer…is BIBLE!
www.uhop.org |
Anonymous (68.41.42.68)
| | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 1:01 am: |
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As a vist to the hospital does not make you a doctor... a small stay at a church will not make you an expert on their theology. Neither can the janitor who works at the hospital say that he is fit to do operations. Clearly, an I find it interesting to see all the experts who challenge and defend this organization. It may be that all of them are inaccruate in their assessment. Or it may be just their point of view which is always different depending on where "you are standing." But I will say this... most so called cults have lost its original purpose, charisma, focus of leaders, etc... They look to the past leader as their main focus or they don't exist at all any more. But the House of Prayer has appeared to maintain the same form of worship, adulation, acknowledgement of the new Bishops since Bishop Grace in spite of his death. Clearly this worship must go beyond the man into something more profound. Because as all these other comparables of the House of Prayer has decreased and deceased. The House of Prayer has excelled in the aftermath of the men they supposedly was worshipping. Maybe Gamaliel had something when he said ... let them alone: for if this counsel or this work be of men, it will come to nought: But if it be of God, ye cannot overthrow it; lest haply ye be found even to fight against God.(Acts 5:38). Maybe we should stop searching for a church and search for God knowing that He will lead us to His House and His church/ And if anyone has ever read the bible- there are two things for sure - you will not be popular (Matt 10:22 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name’s sake: but he that endureth to the end shall be saved), most people will think that you are crazy (1 Cor 1:26 For ye see your calling, brethren, how that not many wise men after the flesh, not many mighty, not many noble, are called: But God hath chosen the foolish things of the world to confound the wise; and God hath chosen the weak things of the world to confound the things which are mighty;), and you won't be in the majority(Luke 13:2323Then said one unto him, Lord, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them, 24Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able...). May God bless you all to better understand in Christ Jesus. |
LADYOFMUCHFAITH (69.69.209.95)
| | Posted on Friday, April 16, 2004 - 8:43 pm: |
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That is all it should be about....understanding Jesus Christ and the Bible. It does not matter where you choose to receive the Word as long as it is the Word as it appears in the Holy Bible. You all are spending too much time trying to defend where you choose to worship. If you choose to worship at the UHOP or First Baptist Church it does not matter as long as you receive the Word and get a Blessing!!! If you don't like the UHOP, then don't go there and don't sit back talking trash about it!!! Everybody need to worry about getting into HEAVEN instead of trying to bring somebody's place of worship down. I am not a member of the UHOP, but I will go there in a minute if I can open my Bible and follow along with what is being taught. AMEN!!! |
Anonymous (4.155.24.73)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 17, 2004 - 1:36 pm: |
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Correction!!!
I stated that the UHOP has their Annoucement time during the month of May. I stand corrected, the Announcements are held in November. In May the organization has a special Memorial day service. They have been known to have a parade and service during Memorial Day weekend. At one time, in order to be given a G-Class status,individual members had to raise at least $500. The top money raiser had to raise the most money above this amount. To date, if a member raises a certain amount of money he or she is given the title "Saint" and if a pastor "Apostle". This is why one of the above message board responders called certain members "Apostle Commodore" and "Saint Richardson".
In their understanding, God's salvatioin is connected with the amount of money you raise. We once had a terminally ill friend who knowing death was close asked a UHOP pastor "How do I get to heaven knowing I've lived such a sinful life?" His response to our friend was "make G-class". In other words, raise a certain amount of money and give it to Daddy and he'll approve your salvation. How absurd and unbiblical a response! At some funerals of prestigous members, the bishop has made statements such as "I've unlocked the doors of heaven that he may enter in".
To any United House of Prayer for all People member, yes my friend, you are in a cult but there is hope----God's true salvation in Jesus Christ. To just mention the name of Jesus in conversation or during testifying time is not enough you must be dedicated to and have a relationship with Jesus and him alone. Jesus said, "I am the way, the truth, and the life. No one comes to the Father but by me." John 14:6. To receive the Holy Ghost the bible says, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit." Acts 2:38. Read the Bible and ask the Lord for understanding. He will not turn you away. Prayer to God asking for forgiveness, telling Him (not Daddy)you believe on His Son for salvation and God will save you. The Bible declares "Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved." Acts 4:12. God's salvation is for anyone! |
Anonymous (151.199.237.245)
| | Posted on Saturday, April 24, 2004 - 12:39 am: |
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Our time is a very interesting one, “every one is right”----an endless well of relativism. No one is allowed to argue or question the practices of some in Christianity (and beyond) in the light of truth. It is considered not “politically correct” or polite to question someone’s “faith”, even though Jesus said many false prophets will come (Matt. 24:24); Paul warned against ravenous wolves rising in the church to destroy the flock, speaking perverse things to draw away believers after them (Acts 20:28,29); John admonishing believers that many antichrists would rise who deny Jesus Christ ( 1 John 2:18) and other numerous Godly warnings throughout the New Testament. As a result, many cults and questionable practices have blossomed and flourished today, such that, some of these can offer a free Bible over the television, deliver it by smiling missionaries that later deny it to be the truth, and yet convince the masses they are legitimate Christians. There are many other pseudo-Christian organizations, and among them is the United House of Prayer for all People, Church on the Rock of the Apostolic Faith.
Sweet ‘n Low, Equal, and the new thing, Splenda, may taste sweet, but they ain’t real sugar. If a person recognizes error, it is his God expected duty to lead his brother to the truth---Ezekiel 33. We tell the truth in love, but we tell the truth. In the end, despite our efforts, it is good to know, God will separate the sheep from the goats, the wheat and the tares. |
Anonymous (199.72.185.75)
| | Posted on Tuesday, April 27, 2004 - 10:22 am: |
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Once again, people fail to speak of that they do know and testfy of that they have seen. Why do people attack their neighbor's yard. Why do people speak evil of others. I have been to the House of Prayer and the person's statement of money and so forth is completely wrong. They do have fundraisers but titles such as saints and Apostles come from a strictly spiritual source. The statement of truth is what? What clear desination of condemnation has been made? Jesus came into a world full of pagan worship and He himself and his followers were considered a cult. However, his time was not spent on other pagan worship. His time was spent on letting His people know what they must do to be saved. For a real christian, attacking others story is not our story. OUr story is about the man Jesus. God made flesh, born of a woman, baptized by John, Tried before Pilate, Crucified on the cross, and rosed on the third day. And now sits on the right hand side of the Father, - Daddy as the one mediator and intercessor between man and God. This is the light of Christianity. The bible says that it is the preaching of the crossd that saves. What is wrong with so many people's faith that they must deter from the practice of the scripture which is to know nothing save Jesus Christ and him crucified. Is not the blood of Jesus strong enough to save. Or do we have to attack other people to prove ourselves correct.
I thought it said that others will be converted by letting our light shine- and by this others will see the light and believe in the Father- there it goes again- Daddy. My church believes in Daddy too. But it is not a man. It is that spirit Abba that we cry according to Romans 8. You are right to say that there are false prophets- but you must also declare what deut. states make a false prophet. You are right to declare the ravenous wolves but the wolves come from within- if you understand John's conversation that if they had been of us, they would not have left us. Maybe someone should look up that Apostle Commodore and see what he believes. I which people would stop telling me what someone else believes because unless you are the prophet that you claim that others are not... you don't really know what they believe. And what if your truth turns out to be a lie. To be mistaking in gospel is to be lying.
When you so call tell the truth. Make sure that you know what you are talking about. After reading this information. I when to the House of Prayer and asked a pastor about these accusations. I encouraged the commentators of this site to do so- not to be converted but to get an understanding.
Yes there is truth. That truth is belief in the Lord Jesus Christ- every other man is a liar. And a House of Prayer preacher told me that. |
Anonymous (141.152.231.90)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 3:02 pm: |
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I remember the Bible saying in 1 Timothy 2:15, “For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, who gave himself as a ransom for all men----the testimony given in its proper time”—NIV.
Questions
For any member of United House of Prayer of People, Church on the Rock of the Apostolic Faith who is willing to provide an honest answer to help us understand your faith.
Is it possible to receive healing by calling on the name of Daddy in prayer?
Is the current bishop of the United House Of Prayer God’s appointed leader over His kingdom? Is this stated in the creed?
Is the name of Jesus ever taken from songs sung in the UHOP and replaced with “Daddy”? If so, why?
Can a person be saved apart from being a member of the UHOP? What must a person do to be saved?
If Daddy asks, will God let a person into heaven?
Thank you in advance for your response. |
MICHELLE LEE (64.12.116.66)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 9:06 pm: |
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THIS MESSAGE IS FOR THE USER 151.199.237.170. JUST BECAUSE YOU WERE A MEMBER OF THE UHOPFAP AND DID NOT HAVE TRUE AND FULL UNDERSTANDING OF OUR FAITH DOES NOT GIVE YOU THE RIGHT TO TELL OTHER PEOPLE THAT WHAT WE BELIEVE IN IS ABSURBD.I WOULD LIKE TO COMMENT ON ONE OF YOUR COMMENTS THAT YOU MADE,WORKING IN GCLASS THAT DOES GUARANTEE YOU A SEAT IN GODS KINGDOM.YOU MUST LIVE RIGHT AND BE FILLED WITH THE HOLYGHOST.YOU AND MANY SPECTATORS LOOK AT THE UHOPFAP WITH THE PHYSICAL EYE AND NOT THE SPIRITUAL EYE.ALSO MANY PEOPLE LIKE YOU CHOOSE TO CRITICIZE THE UHOPFAP BECAUSE YOU DO NOT TAKE THE TIME TO UNDERSTAND. |
christian (205.188.117.20)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 08, 2004 - 11:41 pm: |
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I am not a member of the United House of Prayer for All People but attend their services on a couple times a month. It is to my understanding that they call Jesus "Daddy" and only call the bishop "daddy" as a nickname for the spirit of Christ being in him. Any House of Prayer members please get back to me on this and tell me if I'm on the right track. When they substitute Jesus for Daddy in songs, they are singing to Jesus, not the bishop. Because they Call Jesus "Daddy". House of Prayer members, please get back to me on this. etay1207@yahoo.com |
Anonymous (4.155.63.109)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 09, 2004 - 1:37 am: |
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Ms. Lee,
I was once a member, true, but not for a moment. I was an active member for many years from birth. Remember, I still have connections with relatives and friends involved. As well, because of my intrigue with the history of Daddy Grace, I have done extensive research using outside and inside resources including---Grace Magazine, True Facts, and other early publications by members about Daddy Grace. From time to time I still visit UHOPFAP services, and convocations. To add, I compare Biblical scriptures with UHOPFAP positions. I have bowed down before the "Holy Mountain" calling on the name of Daddy for that moment to speak in tongues and receive salvation. I sat on Bishop McCollough's knee to give him a dollar when they called the little ones to come up the "mountain". I played the trombone in a band to give God praises. I have felt the waters of the fire hose baptism hit my head. And yes, I have lived right. I am far from being an outsider looking in. I am able to see things that maybe you can not because you have a passion for the organization absent of true salvation with the Lord Jesus Christ. You see, the true Holy Spirit opened my eyes. He (the Holy Spirit)came into my heart upon asking Christ to save me. Christ forgave me, placed His Spirit in me and opened my eyes to see. It is very hard to see without Christ. I really say this with love to you. You have been told, just as I was, that the UHOPFAP is God's true church because "my house shall be call a house of prayer for all people" is mentioned in the Bible. So you believe it. I used to debate with my friends about the same issue. Please, read John 4:21-24 and 1 Cor. 6:11,19,20. The body of the believer in Christ is the true temple of the living God. Each believer is a living stone. So, in so many words, each believer in Jesus as Lord and Savior is a house of prayer. It's not an exclusive organization.
I'm really interested in hearing UHOPFAP members respond to that person's questions. Maybe your answers will clear up some issues. If people don't understand your faith, which, in your eyes includes me---explain it. |
House of prayer member (168.11.125.2)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 - 6:45 pm: |
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House of Prayer Creed We believe in the Almighty God, maker of heaven and earth. We believe in Jesus Christ, His only begotten son who was conceived by the Holy Ghost and crucified for the sins of the people. WE believe in water baptism for the repentance of sins. We believe that you must be born again of the Holy Ghost, We believe in one Leader as the ruler of the kingdom of God |
Uhopfap/Waynesboro, GA (168.11.125.2)
| | Posted on Tuesday, May 11, 2004 - 7:04 pm: |
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To Christian 205.188.117.20 You are on the right track. I encourage you to continue to visit the House of prayer,because man can not do what we say DADDY CAN do. So it's got to be more than what meets the natural eye. It is time for the people in general to know and understand whats going on. The scripture tells us that there is no other name under heaven whereby we must be saved other than the name of Jesus Christ. He shedded His blood on Calvary's cross that we might have a right to the tree of life. So in order for us (everybody) to receive the Holy Ghost, we must believe on the name of Jesus Christ and that He died and rose on the third day and declared that all power is given unto him in heaven and on earth. He also said, He that believeth on me, the work that I do shall he do and greater work shall he do because I go to the Father. I want to thank Jesus for sending a man that we call Daddy!!! |
Jeanne (68.41.42.68)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 2:04 am: |
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For any member of United House of Prayer of People, Church on the Rock of the Apostolic Faith who is willing to provide an honest answer to help us understand your faith.
Is it possible to receive healing by calling on the name of Daddy in prayer?
Is the current bishop of the United House Of Prayer God’s appointed leader over His kingdom? Is this stated in the creed?
Is the name of Jesus ever taken from songs sung in the UHOP and replaced with “Daddy”? If so, why?
John 16:23 And in that day ye shall ask me nothing. Verily, verily, I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall ask the Father in my name, he will give it you.
(Special emphasis should be placed upon the Father - That is Daddy- it is accepted in the form of the trinity - Daddy is the Father, the son, and the holy spirit)
Galatians 4:6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.
The spiritual praise of Daddy can only refer to the heavenly Father. The Bishop also sings to Daddy in the service and has mused about how foolish it would be to sing to himself.
The Daddy reference to the Bishop can only be supported as a father in the gospel and not as a deity.
1 Corinthians 4:15 For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel. 16 Wherefore I beseech you, be ye followers of me.
However, it is church doctrine that the christ spirit is in the Bishop and also in every born again child of God.
Can a person be saved apart from being a member of the UHOP? What must a person do to be saved?
Of course.
John 10:16 And other sheep I have, which are not of this fold: them also I must bring, and they shall hear my voice; and there shall be one fold, and one shepherd.
Besides it is not being a member of the organization that saves the soul. It is being a born again member of the church which not a building but it is the body of Jesus Christ that causes one to be save.
John 3:3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God.
To Be saved...
The Holy Bible, King James Version
Acts 16:30 And brought them out, and said, Sirs, what must I do to be saved? 31And they said, Believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and thou shalt be saved, and thy house. 32And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.
But it do not stop there
Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation.
But it do not stop there
Acts 9:6 And he trembling and astonished said, Lord, what wilt thou have me to do? And the Lord said unto him, Arise, and go into the city, and it shall be told thee what thou must do.
Why didn't Jesus just tell him to say Jesus- why did he have to see Jesus servant? There is something to hearing the word from the minister
But it do not stop there
Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved. 14How then shall they call on him in whom they have not believed? and how shall they believe in him of whom they have not heard? and how shall they hear without a preacher? 15And how shall they preach, except they be sent? as it is written, How beautiful are the feet of them that preach the gospel of peace, and bring glad tidings of good things!
If we are guilty of anything it would be that we believe that our Bishop, ministers, and preachers have beautiful feet because there is true gospel in the house of Prayer
If Daddy asks, will God let a person into heaven?
I presume that you are speaking in reference to the Bishop and not the heavenly father. Clearly the Bishop has a full understanding of worthiness. His actual quote is that unless you have been living for Christ and is worthy of His blessings- no matter how much He pray - that prayer cannot move God unless God will it to be so and grant you grace and mercy. The accurate answer to your question would be that you would have to ask God. It would be foolish to presume God's actions- but here are a few scriptures where other men has been given some authorities that may challenge us as to the possibilities.
The Holy Bible, King James Version
Matthew 16:18 And I say also unto thee, That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build my church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.
John 20:22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained.
The Holy Bible, King James Version
1 Corinthians 5:3 For I verily, as absent in body, but present in spirit, have judged already, as though I were present, concerning him that hath so done this deed, 4 In the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, when ye are gathered together, and my spirit, with the power of our Lord Jesus Christ,
1 Thessalonians 4:13 But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep, that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope. 14 For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep in Jesus will God bring with him. 15 For this we say unto you by the word of the Lord, that we which are alive and remain unto the coming of the Lord shall not prevent them which are asleep. 16 For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first: 17 Then we which are alive and remain shall be caught up together with them in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord. 18 Wherefore comfort one another with these words.
How often do we go to funerals of individuals who we perceived as righteous and hear many people say that they have taken their trip to glory, they are resting the Lord, they are with jesus but there is no chat board designed to complain about all these people making these statements everyday all over the world. Maybe what the Bishop and I say Bishop because that is his official title. He is the Bishop. The Daddy becomes prevalent by individuals who experienced miracles through his ministry and they find him to be a Father- Daddy in the gospel but make no mistake no other name whereby man can be save except the name Jesus, Jeshua, Yehoshua, Wonderful, Joshua, Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting father...
Just like the people called Paul a God because of the miracles in the name of Jesus - people makke mistakes and refer to the Bishop in ways that can not be expained and is corrected frequently by the Bishop. But that does not make everyone that opens their mouth an authority on the doctrine of Christianity and the Apostolic faith nor does that qualify them to teach the faith of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. To do that you must be sent...
Many answers usually produce more questions that cannot be answered through this forum - sometimes face to face and eye to eye is necessary with the bible open and the heart prepared for the revelation of the holy spirit.
Questions can be answered scripturally all day. But unless you are lost, what is it that you are trying to find. And if you are seeking,then go to the House of Prayer or do what James said in The Holy Bible, King James Version
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him. 6 But let him ask in faith, nothing wavering. For he that wavereth is like a wave of the sea driven with the wind and tossed. 7 For let not that man think that he shall receive any thing of the Lord. 8 A double minded man is unstable in all his ways.
And for those who had found another church or belief- you should be glad that you found what you found and I look forward to reading more about what you found instead of what you lost.
I hope that this information is helpful to those who seek accurate helpful information,...
2 Corinthians 4:3 But if our gospel be hid, it is hid to them that are lost: 4 In whom the god of this world hath blinded the minds of them which believe not, lest the light of the glorious gospel of Christ, who is the image of God, should shine unto them. 5 For we preach not ourselves, but Christ Jesus the Lord; and ourselves your servants for Jesus’ sake. 6 For God, who commanded the light to shine out of darkness, hath shined in our hearts, to give the light of the knowledge of the glory of God in the face of Jesus Christ. 7 But we have this treasure in earthen vessels, that the excellency of the power may be of God, and not of us.8 We are troubled on every side, yet not distressed; we are perplexed, but not in despair; 9 Persecuted, but not forsaken; cast down, but not destroyed; 10 Always bearing about in the body the dying of the Lord Jesus, that the life also of Jesus might be made manifest in our body.
May Daddy- the Everlasting Father bless you all
I hope I helped to answer a few of your questions. Take care. |
United house of prayer, Waynesboro, Ga (168.11.125.2)
| | Posted on Wednesday, May 12, 2004 - 6:42 pm: |
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To Jeanne, I came back to give the lady some answers to her questions but you beat me to the punch. You said it well!!! That is what we believe brothers and sisters. Praise the Lord and keep keeping on. You are welcome to visit the United House of Prayer, 1050 Quaker Rd, Waynesboro, Ga. Where the table has been spreaded and the feast of the Lord is going on!!! |
rev woodrow steadman (68.119.47.6)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 12:17 pm: |
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i have heard a lot about the house of prayer, we have one in spartanburg. s.c. i have never been to iti have heard several blacks who were against it. i have heard they hold daddy grace to be equal to or be the saviour. this is wrong they should not do that only JESUS CHRIST is THE SAVIOUR |
Anonymous (68.41.42.68)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 13, 2004 - 8:44 pm: |
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It is true. Jesus Christ is the Saviour.Actually there are scriptures that explain that God is the Saviour also.
Titus 3:4 But after that the kindness and love of God our Saviour toward man appeared, 5Not by works of righteousness which we have done, but according to his mercy he saved us, by the washing of regeneration, and renewing of the Holy Ghost; 6Which he shed on us abundantly through Jesus Christ our Saviour;
However, we know that the Father and the son are one. What is also amzing is the following scriptures:
John 13:20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that receiveth whomsoever I send receiveth me; and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Matthew 10:40 He that receiveth you receiveth me, and he that receiveth me receiveth him that sent me.
Mark 9:37 Whosoever shall receive one of such children in my name, receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me, receiveth not me, but him that sent me.
Galatians 4:14 And my temptation which was in my flesh ye despised not, nor rejected; but received me as an angel of God, even as Christ Jesus. 15Where is then the blessedness ye spake of? for I bear you record, that, if it had been possible, ye would have plucked out your own eyes, and have given them to me. 16Am I therefore become your enemy, because I tell you the truth?
Acts 16:17 The same followed Paul and us, and cried, saying, These men are the servants of the most high God, which show unto us the way of salvation.
James 5:19 Brethren, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; 20Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins.
Romans 11:13 For I speak to you Gentiles, inasmuch as I am the apostle of the Gentiles, I magnify mine office: 14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them.
1 Corinthians 9:22 To the weak became I as weak, that I might gain the weak: I am made all things to all men, that I might by all means save some.
1 Timothy 4:16 Take heed unto thyself, and unto the doctrine; continue in them: for in doing this thou shalt both save thyself, and them that hear thee.
Are you anyone's savior today? Because that is our duty as Ministers of the gospel - to be a savior always understanding that we are not THE SAVIOR- which is the Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
It may not be what we have heard Bishop Grace say that is as alarming as what we did not hear him say. Maybe a reasonable question to him would be... what did you mean by saying...? |
rev woodrow steadman (68.119.47.6)
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 3:24 pm: |
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my question was still not answered. did daddy grace claim to be THE SAVIOUR? did he just let people beleive he was with out saying so himself. i am not a saviour as i cant save any one nor can any one else but JESUS CHRIST> HE IS THE ONLY ONE WHO CAN SAVE FROM SIN. as far as i am concerned i feel h.o.p is a cult |
Anonymous (68.41.42.68)
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 3:48 pm: |
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Whether Daddy Grace said such words at any time can only be verified by Daddy Grace who is deceased fro 44 years. And if he said it, it would be necessary for him to explain what he meant. I understand that you are not The Savior. But it is interesting that none of the scriptures in reference to saving has been addressed. Most people conplain about the House of Prayer based upon personal dislikes but maybe the House of Prayer it is not what the House of Prayer believes that is strange but how they say it.
Instead of talking about what you heard that people said Daddy Grace said- what do you think about what the people who responded to this site from the House of Prayer.
Have they acknowledge a man as their God?
Have they claim that Jesus Christ was no longer the savior of the world?
Have they made any claims to idol worship?
Who have used the most scriptures?
Who has refered to the word of God the most instead of leaning to their own understanding?
Clearly, Rev., you did not seek for an answer- your response revealed that you only wanted to make a statement by the way- while you're concerned about Daddy Grace saying that he was a savior which we have scripture to understand, please review this scripture and explain how you refer to yourself as..."reverend."
Psalm 111:9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name. |
Anonymous (151.199.239.98)
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 10:18 pm: |
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Daddy Grace
An Annotated Bibliography
Compiled by Lenwood G. Davis
The above book can give you direct quotes from Daddy Grace. I read this Bibliography myself. It is filled with ambiguous quotes by Daddy Grace which could make people believe he thought he was divine. Early member of the UHOPFAP believed that Daddy Grace was The Prophet of God. In fact, they believed so strongly in Daddy Grace's power when he died, many UHOPFAPs had watch services because they thought he would rise from the dead like Jesus. This is a historical fact.
Also, don't be bothered by your title as Reverend. Online UHOPFAP member still have not explained why certain members are given the title of Apostle or Saint. Now the Bible calls all believers saints but the UHOPFAP gives the title to a few. Why? |
Anonymous (151.199.239.98)
| | Posted on Friday, May 14, 2004 - 10:21 pm: |
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John 16:13 “Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, He will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.
John 14:20 “ At that day ye shall know that I am in my Father, and ye in me and I in you.”
John 14:26 “But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
John 15
Romans 8:9 “Now if any man have not the Spirit of Christ he is none of His.”
It sounds like the Bible is teaching that the Holy Spirit, Holy Ghost, Spirit of God, Spirit of Christ, Spirit of Truth, Comforter is with every believer not just one man. You must read the Bible in its full context, not pull out verses that seem suitable to your platform. Please, read the verse preceding and following verses to get the full understanding. |
Anonymous (68.41.42.68)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 9:58 am: |
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First of all I agree with some of both previous statements except for the following:
Whose historical fact: You are not talking to people who read a book- you are talking to some of the people who were there. This is not House of Prayer doctrine to think that he would rise from the dead. Otherwise we would not have had two Bishops since who holds the same authority, title, and plave. What is true is that many writers may walk up to any individual and ask them what do you think about Daddy Grace- what kind of answers would you get from doing an interview with any christian about their doctrine. Some of it would be off. Just like I can't tell you what you believe, you can't tell me what I believe. Why is it that if your mission is to see people come to Christ and when these people from the House of Prayer respond and say yes Jesus is Lord and Savior of all, he is in our Bishop and every one that is filled with the holy spirit these statements are not addressed by the scorners. They don't applaud and say thank you Jesus, I thought, read, was told, got the impression that you all believed something else. Why is it some determination to ignore these people when they say Jesus is the chief cornerstone of our faith and always refer back to some quote unquote historical fact. There are historical facts about every what we call in America church. If you put these churches and their pastors under sufficient microscopes you will find some interesting statements and quotes that may seem strange.
As for the scriptures given above: why not read above and below- you still haven't stated what is the problem with them. Who was they talking about? Read above- read below. Who were they refering to: read above - read below. Yet, I say this not to challenge your faith but to help you to understand that we know who we worship- for God is a spirit and they that worship Him must worship him in spirit and in truth. As far as Apostle and saints. There is no church doctrine about only a few are saints. There was a time when some were pronounce as saints because of there dutifulness to Christ and others was called to be saints to live a clean and holy life. But it is clear as doctrine that the true saints in the House of Prayer are those who are chosen through the Holy spirit and live according to commandments and gospel of Jesus Christ which is what we refer to as holiness. The man Charles Grace is dead. We know where the body lay. Now I guess someone who is not in the House of Prayer is going to tell me that this is not what we believe. Please, I do not live in your House. Even if I visit it- I may get some impressions but I do not know why things are what they are in your house. Please do not try to tell me about my House which is truly God's house. As Proiverbs tells us wisdome is the principal thing, therefore get wisdom. But in all your getting, get understanding.
As far as the last reference before me. You are exactly right. That is what our Bishop teaches. Everybody ought to have Daddy which is the Holy spirit in them. Didn't we say that somewhere up above? This is what I mean when I say that you do not seek to know what we really believe. No one is really listening. I understand the shock value for the way we put things. But don't worry. Other churches are getting there. I heard Kirk Franklin talking about Daddy the other Day. I heard T D Jakes say on one occasion that you got to know your Daddy. After while, the House of Prayer will not seem strange at all.
Finally, why shouldn't you be concern with a scripture that clearly states that reverend is the name of God. Not to declare you as being wrong but to show you how unless properly explained, there are a lot of things that can give a person the wrong impression. I am sure that you do not think that you are God.
1 Corinthians 12:28 And God hath set some in the church, first apostles, secondarily prophets, thirdly teachers, after that miracles, then gifts of healings, helps, governments, diversities of tongues.
Hebrews 13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever.
Now I think I have answered quite a few questions so I'll sign off for a while and hopefully someone may understand a little of what we truly believe. Because the bottom line is as Paul stated(Please feel free to read before and after every thing I've quoted)
1 Corinthians 2:2 For I determined not to know any thing among you, save Jesus Christ, and him crucified.
We believe. Do you? |
REV. WOODROW STEADMAN (68.119.47.6)
| | Posted on Saturday, May 15, 2004 - 11:49 am: |
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i use the tittle rev. which was given to me as a minister. for that matter why do you call the leaders daddy when the scriptures say call no man your father ( meaning as a leader ) you are still a cult |
Anonymous (151.199.241.100)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 3:45 pm: |
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At some level we sound like we are talking the same language, but it has been my experience that different meanings are placed behind the same words. For example, to answer Jesus’ question: Who do men say I am?
Jehovah’s Witness- Jesus is the Savior; the archangel Michael; first created being of God; crucified by not on a cross; risen but not physically---body dissolved like gases.
Mormons- Jesus is the Savior; spirit brother of Lucifer; Son of God and Mary through a sexual union; reappearing Savior to the early Native Americans.
So, when we all sit down together and talk about Jesus everyone agrees. The J. W. and Mormon both agree yes, Jesus is the Savior. The only problem is what they believe within their hearts about Jesus, which is totally off. This being said, we can only go by what we observe and hear UHOPFAP members say. I think calling the Holy Spirit “Daddy” is okay, but the organization has clearly directed this title and all its meaning to the residing bishop whether Grace, McCollough, or Madison. No other person is called “Daddy” in the UHOPFAP and friend, you know this to be true. If the Holy Spirit, (Christ’s Spirit, or the Holy Ghost) is in every saved person in the UHOPFAP, everyone should be called “Daddy”. And you know this is not the case.
Let’s dig beneath the surface about Jesus.
Yes, we agree he is Lord, Savior, Son of God, but is he
-Creator?
-Both Creator and Man?
-the Mediator between God and Man?
-Spirit?
Who is Jesus to the UHOPFAP? Please respond to my question with pointed, clear answers. |
True House of Prayer Member (24.93.110.216)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 9:50 pm: |
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I agree one-hundred percent with 68.41.42.68. I am a UHOP Elder (preacher). The only titles that the ministers in the UHOP get are Elder or Apostle, which are given by God's Holy Prophet. Rev. Woodward who gave you your name? Better yet who called you? The bible tells us that God uses a man and that man uses men. Just as Moses did the people began to complain God told him to call together 70 men to the tent and when he has them there he (God) would take a portion of the spirit that was in Moses and place it in those 70 men which would be his help. That is what authority we are given to preach the Gospel of Jesus Christ and the Word of God. By what authority do you preach? Did you just wake up one day and say it would be nice to preach the word of God to make money? I do not preach the word of God for money nor does any preacher in the UHOP including our Bishop whom we call Daddy. We do not get salaries, but I am sure you do. |
rev woodrow steadman (68.119.47.6)
| | Posted on Sunday, May 16, 2004 - 10:07 pm: |
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to the house of prayer member. first of all my name is not rev woodward my name is rev woodrow steadman.. my name was given me by my mother and father.. i do not preach for money nor did i wake up one day and say it would be nice to preach and make some money. i was called of THE LORD JESUS CHRIST to preach HIS WORD, not the word of some one who called imself daddy. you are still a cult and they do receive offerings or love gifts for you. |
UHOP Member MD (64.12.116.66)
| | Posted on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 12:21 am: |
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As a young man who is a member of the United House of Prayer for All People, I feel as though this entire board is a waste of time/discussion if those in question, and those answering are doing more criticizing of ones religion than explaining and trying to get some sort of understanding. I stand strong behind the House of Prayer and our leader who teaches us not to criticize others for their beliefs.Regardless of what each of us may believe in, many of those responding to this subject are clearly not acting like a child of God. My only solution to this would be for those with questions to visit the House of Prayer for themselves. True everyone believes in what they have been taught and how they choose to praise God,but all of us are not as knowledgable of our own religions as we should be. Some UHOP members have been members all of their lives and still don't understand things or know how to respond to questions asked. Just as this is true with us it is true with others. Seek answers from those in authority at the churches you have questions about. Rather than focus on talking about ones beliefs and trying to prove them wrong I think we should all concentrate on living a sin free life and making it to heaven someday. |
rev woodrow steadman (68.119.47.6)
| | Posted on Monday, May 17, 2004 - 2:39 pm: |
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to the hop member md
i think so too i do not intend to critize any one but i do stand for the truth |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Monday, May 24, 2004 - 8:57 pm: |
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I was a member under Bishop McCollough amd I can say beyond a shadow of doubt that the members of the HOP do indeed worship their leader. I was at the Mother House in New York many years ago when Daddy McCollough stated that "I am that Holy Ghost." Needless to say, the entire congregation nearly fell out in ecstacy.
You HOP members can spin this any way you want, but you cannot deny the facts. Isa. 56:7 does not refer to your organization. Please read the entire chapter. This is a prophecy referring to the temple in Jerusalem, where G-d said he would put his name.
Many of you need to study the bible. Not only that, but biblical history. Then you can get a deeper understanding of what the bible is talking about instead of relying on what your leader tells you.
You sing songs praising your bishop. Substituting Daddy in place of G-d or Jesus. And don't tell me that if you praise Daddy you are praising G-d. That is a bunch of garbage. Only the Almighty is worthy of praise and worship.
Check your bible. No prophet was worshiped, neither is deserving of it. Respect yes, worship no. |
Emery Taylor (130.156.22.95)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 5:16 pm: |
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REV. WOODROW STEADMAN,
Why are you judging your brothers and sisters so? I am not a member of the House of Prayer but I do know that they believe that Jesus Christ is the messiah, the Son of the Living God. That He came to earth to take away the curse of sin and death and that He rose again on the third day. Believe it or not, we are all a part of the same church. Whether you believe it is "ok" to call your leader "daddy" or not we are all a part of God's temple and Jesus is the cornerstone. Remember that we are not to judge anyone for what they believe because we will be sinning by judging. Jesus tells us that we must love them. When I say them I mean everybody. Not just members of the House of Prayer. Because they believe in Jesus, they have an obligation to love us as well. We all have been adopted into God's family. Anyone reading this is welcome to contact me etay1207@yahoo.com etay1207@aol.com |
steadman (68.119.47.6)
| | Posted on Thursday, May 27, 2004 - 7:12 pm: |
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emory taylor, i am not judgeing. i do love them as my brothers andsisters in THE LORD they are a cult for tev grace never did anything about them saying he was..god...for that matter why are you jydgeing me |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Friday, May 28, 2004 - 9:06 am: |
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The UHOPFAP is nothing more than a cult and it's bishop is a false prophet. Plain and simple. |
Anonymous (68.44.146.22)
| | Posted on Monday, May 31, 2004 - 2:13 am: |
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Peace...
I am an apostle of the UHOPFAP. Though I have been a member for only 5 years and
still young I have learned much about the HOP tradition.
First off about Daddy, that is our spiritual name we give our bishops. Actually it wasn't
Bishop Grace who came up with the name but a sister who cried out. He gave the
downtrodden a ray of hope. He showed then Jesus. He was known to be Daddy, from
what I learned, because he looked after his children. The scripture comes up 1
Corinthians 4:15. I'll use both the KJV and also the NIV version.
KJV: For though ye have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have ye not many fathers:
for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the Gospel. 16: I beseech you, be ye
followers of me.
NIV: Even, though you have ten thousand guardians in Christ, you do not have many
fathers, for in Christ Jesus I became your FATHER through the gospel. 16: Therefore I
urge you to imitate me.
See even though you have your pastors and elders, you still need a leader. Paul said that I
have become your father through the gospel. Does that mean that Paul became a deity?
No. He became the founder of the church in Corinth hence had it's best interest in his
heart. We call our bishop Daddy because he looks out for us. He gives up advise when
we need it, he scolds us when it's needed and he watches over the HOP because he has the
best interest in his heart.
Now the whole setup on the UHOP being the only place to worship God that is where a
lot of red flags are going up. I see it in this fashion. The house of prayer is a true biblical
church. However, even Bishop Madison emphasis this, by joining the house of prayer
you do not automatically join the church. The church is the unified body of Christ. Even
Jesus said that he has sheep in other places. I believe that when Christ comes back for his
people all of his sheep will be gathered and we will enjoy paradise with our groom.
The title of apostle and saint are given out not by the money people raise. I can attest to
this because I was 18 when I was appointed an apostle and I never had more than 20
dollars in my pocket at the time. It was quite impossible for me to get to those who raise
even 500 dollars.
The whole works can be backed up by scripture. We are saved through faith through
grace, not of works, it is a gift of God. The scripture also goes on to say that the works
are needed to be a light unto the world. We work in the HOP not because we will gain
recognition by God (at least, I hope most HOP members believe in that) but by showing
that we are a different people. We serve and help others to bring them to Christ.
And the whole money ordeal. I have yet to see HOP money go to wasted. Our Bishop
has been building up churches, low-income apartment buildings and retirement homes. I
have not seen the Bishop use the money haphazardly. We give him love gifts because
well we love him. It is our free will. He doesn't get paid for what he does and neither do
the pastors. I read somewhere in the bible as members we need to support our leaders so
that they can continue on with their works for Christ.
As of songs replacing Jesus with Daddy, it is a spiritual thing. Christ's spirit that dwells
in the Bishop (as well as each of us) is what we worship, not the Bishop himself. Heck, I
could remember when people started to thank the Bishop for the miracles he has done and
he said "Give your praises to Jesus."
I know in my heart that HOP isn't a cult and it's bishop isn't a false prophet. A false
prophet uses people for his own agenda's. He is helping us a true shepherd to flock. He
takes the time out when others call him for prayer and never does he ask for money to do
this. I remember my sister who is not a member of the HOP. My mother, her and myself
went to the bishop's office one day to discuss certain things with her. He gave us advise
and told us that he will pray for her. He never asked for one dime.
Well I do hope I answered some questions. May Jesus Christ be with you. Amen. |
Anonymous (24.178.109.29)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 01, 2004 - 10:02 pm: |
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Peace.....
I am a 70th Elder of the UHOPFAP in Atlanta Ga. and have been a member from Newport News Virginia, all of my life and I am in total agreement with what you are saying, Apostle. I am also the son of an Apostle and a Saint, never once in my life have I been tought that the Bishop was GOD or that he is prefered before Jesus Christ, nor was I tought to worship a man. It is sad to me that there are so many Theologians who want to waste time and energy deciding if the United House Of Prayer For All People is a cult or if the Bishop is a false prophet. The House Of Prayer For All People is a central place where All People may gather and worship The Almighty God regardless of their race, creed or denomination and the Bishop is preaching to every man, woman, and child,"That You Must Be Born Again", in order to reside with God and Jesus through out all eternity. James 5:19-20 kjv,"Brethen, if any of you do err from the truth, and one convert him; Let him know, that he which converteth the sinner from the error of his way shall SAVE A SOUL from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins." |
Anonymous (205.188.117.20)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 12:40 am: |
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I HAVE BEEN A MEMBER OF THE UHOP SINCE BIRTH. WE BELIEVE IN JESUS CHRIST AS OUR SAVIOUR. I CAN'T UNDERSTAND WHY PEOPLE STILL WANT TO REFER TO THE UHOP AS A CULT. DO YOU BELIEVE THAT GOD WOULD ALLOW A CULT TO CONTINUE TO GROW IN THE MAGNITUDE IN WHICH THE UHOP HAS GROWN IN THE PAST 78 YEARS OR WOULD HE DESTROY IT? WE FEED THE HUNGRY,WE HAVE LOW INCOME HOUSING FOR MEMBERS AND NON-MEMBERS, AND NURSING HOMES FOR SENIOR CITIZENS. IF YOU CAN'T UNDERSTAND THE NAME "DADDY", THAN CALL HIM "BISHOP". IF GOD CHOOSE PROPHETS IN THE BIBLE DAYS, WHY CAN'T GOD HAVE MODERN DAY PROPHETS. IF YOU CAN'T BELEIVE IN HIM FOR HIS NAME SAKE,THEN BELEIVE IN HIM FOR HIS WORKS. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 02, 2004 - 8:12 pm: |
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You're saying that you don't worship a man? That is so laughable. When you seek for the Ruach Ha-Kodesh(Holy Spirit), who do you call on? G-d or Daddy? C'mon now. Many of your members call Daddy their savior, when only G-d himself can provide salvation Isa.43:11.
Your church only gives lip service to The Creator. The main focus is on Daddy. It's Daddy this, Daddy that. To the previous poster, just because your church has been around for over 70 years does not make it right. Using your elementary logic, that would make the Catholic Church the true church. No modern church has been around as long as they.
G-d does not share his glory with another. You want to go into biblical times, no one called on the name of Moses, Elijah, Elisha or any of the other old time prophets. They called on The Creator, in whom salvation truly lies. Mortal man has a tendency to elevate a man over The Almighty.
Many of you need a serious biblical history lesson. |
Anonymous (205.188.117.20)
| | Posted on Saturday, June 05, 2004 - 11:36 pm: |
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THE CATHOLIC FAITH CALL THEIR PASTOR FATHER, SO WHAT IS THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN FATHER AND DADDY, I THOUGHT THEY WERE ONE IN THE SAME. EVERYDAY WHEN I PRAY, I PRAY TO GOD.WHEN OUR BISHOP PRAY, HE PRAY TO GOD. THE UHOP DO NOT PUT OUR BISHOP ON THE SAME LEVEL AS GOD OR JESUS CHIRST. GOD IS THE CREATOR OF ALL THINGS AND JESUS IS HIS "ONLY SON". WE DO BELIEVE GOD PUT HIS SPIRIT IN OUR BISHOP TO LEAD THE UHOP. THE UHOP AS BEEN MISUNDERSTOOD FOR SO MANY YEARS. WE ARE NO DIFFERENT THEN ANYONE ELSE, WE ARE YOUR NEIGHBORS, TEACHERS,PRINCIPLES, NURSES,DOCTORS,AND ETC.TRYING TO MAKE HEAVEN OUR ETERNAL HOME. READ 1 CORINTHIANS 12:1-31. WE SHOULD ALL STOP DEBATING IF THE UHOP IS RIGHT OR WRONG, AND FOCUS OUR ENERGY ON THE REAL PROBLEM, WHICH IS ALL THE KILLING, HATRED AND EVIL IN THE WORLD TODAY. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 4:43 am: |
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To the previous poster, this is a public forum. People are free to come here and post any ideas, pro or con about this organization. If negative posts pertaining to the UHOP disturb you, simply don't browse to this site. That will settle the matter for you.
Now, I could care less how Catholics address their ministers. That is a matter for another forum. We're here discussing the UHOP. I, along with others here, question the authority of your leader.
In my previous post, I mentioned that it is church doctrine that when members of the UHOP seek for the Ruach Ha-Kodesh(Holy Spirit), you are encouraged to call on the name of "Daddy". I know this to be true. I used to be a member. I'm not on the outside looking in. I've seen many revivals where this was practised and encouraged. By what scriptual authority do you do this? Please post your scriptual source(s) authorizing the use of the name "Daddy", and not your own delusional thoughts. According to the scriptures, those that call on the name of the L-rd(Most High, Creator,Adonai, G-d Almighty,etc.) shall be saved.
The scriptures encourage us to call on the Almighty literally hundreds of times. Too many examples to post them all on this site. But I'm sure you may have come across a few. Assuming you actually spend time studying the Word, or do you just sit at Daddy's feet and accept the crumbs that fall from his table?
Yes, hatred and killing is a problem as you've mentioned, but so are false prophets. The scriptures predict that many would come in the world and deceive many. First off, your bishop is not a true navi(prophet). A prophet's main job is to warn the people to return to G-d and obey His Word. He is not to claim, or accept praises(songs substituting Daddy's name in place of G-d, and please post scripture supporting this, please) for himself, as your bishop does. If he is a true prophet, he should not tolerate his members calling on "Daddy", seeking the Holy Spirit, since this is not biblical practise. These members shoud be publicly corrected and the practise stopped.
C'mon HOP members. Step up to the plate. I dare you. |
Anonymous (64.12.116.66)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 11:15 pm: |
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TO THE PREVIOUS POSTER, JUST OUT OF CURIOUS, WHAT IS YOUR FAITH NOW AND DO YOU BELIEVE THAT GOD HAVE MODERN DAY PROPHETS? YES, THIS IS A PUBLIC FORUM AND I AM JUST EXPRESSING MY OPINION, LIKE MANY OTHERS INCLUDING YOU. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 7:35 am: |
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I would rather you address the issues I've raised with scriptural and historical(biblical) references. Don't duck the issues. |
Anonymous (149.174.164.83)
| | Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 6:02 pm: |
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REFER TO POSTER #68.41.42.68, THEIR BIBLICAL REFERENCES MAY HELP YOU. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 7:03 pm: |
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You're kidding me, right? more delusional babble in regards to those comments. Are there any learned people in this forum or what? |
Anonymous (64.12.116.66)
| | Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 7:09 pm: |
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24.193.202.236 I think your problem is you see the biblical references and due to your predetermined judgements you refuse to read them and accept them. How can you continuously ask for reference and for HOP members to step up to the plate when it has already been done, but you wont accept what has been given. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 9:05 pm: |
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64.12.116.66 The post you're referring to does not address what I am talking about. There are no scriptures in that post to support your organization calling on this man to receive the Holy Spirit, no scripture authorizing the use of the name Daddy in songs of praise. Nothing. This is clearly a case of HOP tradition of twisting scripture. Read my post, and address it, you or anyone else with the information I asked for.
Let me further enlighten you, "predetermined" means to judge something with little or no knowledge of the subject beforehand. As I stated, I'm not on the outside looking in. I was one of you, believing this man(McCollough, when I was a member) was sent by G-d. I have a great deal of knowledge about this organization. And stop taking scriptures which pertain to prophets in the past and apply them to this man.
If the men you revere(Grace, McCollough, Madison) lived during biblical times and made the preposterous claims they have made, they would be put to death. Deut 13:1-4 |
Anonymous (205.188.117.20)
| | Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 9:32 pm: |
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To correct you, we do NOT call on THE MAN(the bishop) to receive the Holy Ghost. Maybe you were confused during your time of membership. In the HOP there is NOTHING that states you MUST put the word "Daddy" in songs. The term is used if you please. Daddy is the christ spirit my friend. Daddy is not the man that we have seen in the form of Grace, McCollough and Madison. You might have been brought up under the wrong teachings/authority. As for me, I know who Daddy is and if the bishop were to leave this world today Daddy would still live! Why? because Daddy is not the man we see but the spirit of christ that dwelleth in that man. When we pray, we pray to God, NOT Bishop Grace, McCollough or Madison. That is simply foolishness. |
Anonymous (152.163.253.102)
| | Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 10:00 pm: |
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TO THE PREVIOUS POST, I UNDERSTAND THAT YOU WERE ONCE A MEMBER OF THE UHOP. SO ARE YOU SAYING AND BE HONEST, THAT THE UHOP NEVER GAVE HONOR TO GOD AND JESUS CHRIST? DEUT 13:1-5 AND IT SAYS "AND THAT PROPHET, OR THAT DREAMER OF DREAMS, SHALL BE PUT TO DEATH; BECAUSE HE HATH SPOKEN TO TURN YOU AWAY FROM THE LORD YOUR GOD.." BISHOPS OF THE UHOP HAVE NOT MADE ANY PREPOSTEROUS CLAIMS/WHAT CLAIMS ARE YOU REFERRING TO? THE HOP BISHOPS ARE NOT LEADING THEIR MEMBERS AWAY FROM GOD, BUT BRINGING THEM CLOSING TO HIM BY TEACHING THE GOSPEL OF JESUS CHRIST. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 5:15 am: |
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205.188.117.20 There's nothing confusing about hearing individuals call "Daddy" again and again trying to receive the Holy Spirit. I think you're the one that is confused. You try to justify your lunacy by stating that G-d resides in the man, but a true prophet would never accept the accolades for himself that your leader does.
I also know there is nothing "written" in the UHOP that you must put the name daddy in songs. That's not what I was trying to get across. I know this is nothing more than worship of a cult personality gone wild. But it most definitely is encouraged. I wanted to make the point that there is no biblical mandate for this practice. Your evident emotional rambling, along with lack of scriptural documentation proves this.
You may think you know who Daddy is, but I know. He is a colossal fraud. Fine, dwell in your ignorance.
152.163.253.102 Read one of my previous posts. Your church gives lip service to the Creator, with much more emphasis placed on the "prophet", Sweet Daddy. The emphasis is so great that members obey this man without question.
One claim in particular is one I myself heard McCollough state, in regards to the passing of an individual that "I've opened the gates of heaven, that they may enter". This is absolute nonsense. Something he made up spur of the moment I suppose. |
Anonymous (64.12.117.20)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 7:39 am: |
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TO THE PREVIOUS POST, ANSWER THE QUESTION, WHEN YOU WERE A MEMBER OF THE HOP, DID THE HOP GIVE HONOR TO GOD AND JESUS CHRIST? STOP AVOIDING THE QUESTION. I THINK THE PROBLEM IS WHEN YOU WERE A MEMBER OF THE UHOP, YOU FOLLOWED THE FLESH (MEANING THE BODY OF MCCOLLOUGH) AND NOT THE SPIRIT AND YOU BECAME CONFUSED. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 7:46 am: |
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64.12.117.20 That question was answered in my previous post. Is your reading comprehension that elementary? Guess it went totally over your head? Next?...(yawn) |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 7:54 am: |
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64.12.117.20 refer to my post on 6/2. |
Anonymous (64.12.117.20)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 12:54 pm: |
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I THINK 24.193.202.236 LACK UNDERSTANDING WHEN THEY WERE A MEMBER OF UHOP. UHOP MEMBERS KEEP DEFENDING YOUR FAITH. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 7:26 pm: |
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To 64.12.117.2 Yeah, sure I lack "understanding". How could I have missed it? Lol...You have no scriptural or ancient historical leg to stand on, and you say I have no understanding?
You should come with me to the Bet Ha-Mikdash(House of Study, for those of you who don't speak Hebrew, which is probably all of you)I attend on occasion and dazzle us all with your vast "knowledge". You would be laughed right out of the room. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 8:23 pm: |
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To 151.199.237.170 Your post is right on point, brother. At least one other person in here besides myself has figured out the scam and gotten out. I would love to shake your hand. May G-d bless and keep you. |
Anonymous (64.12.117.20)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 10:50 pm: |
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TO 24.193.202.236, IT'S BEEN NICE DEBATING WITH YOU ABOUT THE UHOP. WE BOTH HAVE STRONG CONVICTION ABOUT OUR BELIEF. I CAN'T CONVINCE YOU THE UHOP IS RIGHT,AND YOU CAN'T CONVINCE ME THE UHOP IS WRONG. BUT WE HAVE ONE THING IN COMMON TO MAKE HEAVEN OUR ETERNAL HOME. SEE YOU IN HEAVEN. |
Anonymous (68.10.217.154)
| | Posted on Tuesday, June 08, 2004 - 11:38 pm: |
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To 64.12.117.20, Please consider the things the poster you were debating and poster 151.199.237.170 have said. Study the word of God for yourself. Just open the Bible start reading and pray to God for understanding. He will give it to you. The book of Romans is a good begining. My husband and I were born and raised in the HOP. As adults we grew in our knowledge of God and his word and got out. It grieves me that many of our family members and friends we grew up with are still there.I can still remember the many times I heard McCollough say, "How many of you are going to Heaven under me, How many under Grace" A man cannot get you into Heaven. Jesus already paid the ultimate price for all of us. Madison cannot get you there, he is going to have to figure out how to repent for his sins and get himself in. Acts 4:12. Find a good bible based Church and start attending. Go to their Sunday School. Talk to people who have studied theology and people who hold degrees in biblical history. You will not be crused (as we all grew up believing) for attending another church. God is God of the universe, not just one place. My husband and I will continue to pray that eyes and hearts are opened. With love and deep caring, God bless you. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 4:59 am: |
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64.12.117.20 This was not a debate. A debate is a mutual exchange of intellect, based on facts and research. Something you and your co-religionists sorely lack when it comes to knowledge of the scriptures. Emotion and church tradition take precedence with you. This is why you have no intelligent response to any of my queries.
All of us, myself included, must continually study G-d's Word and ask him for understanding. Also study Bible history, All these things will give you a deeper understanding of G-d and his written revelation to us. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 5:09 am: |
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68.10.217.154 Thank G-d that you and your husband have gotten out of this cult. May G-d continue to bless you and further enlighten you. May I ask, do you get along with your family members still in the HOP? |
Anonymous (205.188.117.20)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 6:26 pm: |
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I HAVE ATTENDED OTHER CHURCH SERVICES WITH FRIENDS AND BELIEVE THE HOP IS FOR ME AND THEIR FAITH IS FOR THEM. MANY OF MY FRIENDS HAVE OTHER BELIEFS AND FAITH. I RESPECT THEIR FAITH AND THEY RESPECT MINE, BECAUSE WE SEE GOD SHINNING IN ONE ANOTHER. I HAVE FAMILY MEMBERS WHO GREW UP IN THE HOP BUT ATTEND OTHER CHURCHES, I HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THAT, THEY HAVE NO PROBLEM WITH THE HOP. HOW CAN ANYONE TALK AGAINST ANOTHER FAITH. SOME PEOPLE ARE AGAINST THE HOP, OTHERS ARE AGAINST THE CATHOLICS, BAPTIST , MORMONS, SEVENETH-DAY ADVENTIST AND SO ON. WE MUST HAVE RESPECT FOR ONE ANOTHER, NO MATTER WHAT RELIGION YOU ARE. I BELEIVE,AND THIS IS MY BELEIF, WHEN IT TIME TO MAKE OUR JOURNEY GOD IS GOING TO LOOK IN THE BOOK OF GOOD AND EVIL AND JUDGE US, HE WILL LET US KNOW THEN WHAT IS HIS TRUE FAITH AND LET US INTO HEAVEN ACCORDING TO YOUR BOOK. IF YOU ARE A BELEIVER IN GOD AND JESUS CHRIST, JUST LET OUR LIGHT SHINE, WHEATHER YOU ARE BAPTIST, CATHOLIC,HOP ... GOD BLESS |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 8:10 pm: |
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Sounds fine and dandy(in the words of Rodney King,why can't we all just get along?), but you're still part of a cult. A cult by any other name(UHOP, Jehovah's Witness, Mormons, Moonies,etc...) is still a cult. A cult is a cult is a cult is a cult. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 8:15 pm: |
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By the way, isn't "Daddy" a pet name that prostitutes use for their pimps? |
Anonymous (152.163.253.102)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 9:52 pm: |
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TO 24.193.202.236 IT'S OK TO GIVE YOU OPINION, BUT THE POST SHOULD SAY ON A CHRISTIAN TONE. THANKS!!!! |
Anonymous (24.49.38.121)
| | Posted on Wednesday, June 09, 2004 - 11:27 pm: |
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To 24.193.202.236 I have A question for you. Are you a Christian? I've been following everyone on this post reading everyones comment. Your comments are not on A Christian level. Even if you don't agree with the uhop there is a way to let them know without being so devilish, because that's how you sound devilish and sarcastic. 68.10.217.154 gave there opinion and it was in a graceful way. I think that you need to pray for a little more peace and love. It sounds like your're only about confusion. God is a God of PEACE not confusion.
By the way, the word "Daddy" is not only use for the purpose of what you mentioned it for. For example in the uhop "Daddy" is a pet name for the Christ Spirit.
God Bless |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 6:16 am: |
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To 152.163.253.102 & 24.49.38.121 I called a spade a spade. Pure and simple. I'm not interested in winning a popularity contest here. I could care less about your reactions. I will use the terminology I deem necessary. The revelation of truth is uncompromising.
This is a forum where people are free to express themselves in the manner they choose. I used no profanity. I simply made a comparison between your leader and an individual who profits from exploiting people through the flesh. Your leader profits from the spiritual ignorance of people,pimps profit from the flesh. And they're both called "Daddy". I find it humorous. |
Emery (130.156.22.254)
| | Posted on Thursday, June 10, 2004 - 11:18 am: |
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I hope everybody feels better now that they have gotten rid of some steam. The UHOP members belong to God. Let Him tell them whether they are right or wrong. Just as He will tell us if we are right or wrong. Rom. 14:4 |
Anonymous (24.178.109.29)
| | Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 4:24 am: |
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Amen!!!!!! Emery. and to 24.193.202.236, just keep on talking and it will be further revealed that you are something other than Christian. True Christians respect one another and speak to each other in love, you have displayed niether of these qualities. I was just wondering, what faith are you? I am Christian and I have respectful conversations with all people even if I disagree with what they are saying, or teaching. Yes I am a UHOP member and minister of The Gospel of Jesus Christ, I have studied many dif. faiths and beliefs, I have also lived all over the world and have learned many dif. customs. I am trying to understand what you were taught while attending the uhop; none of what you have said is uhop doctorine. The Bishop or Phrophet is exactly that, he is not Yahweh or Yahoshua, he is a man elected to lead a people for God. Did Apostle Paul not say,"I write not these things to shame you, but though you have ten thousand instructors in Christ, yet have you not many fathers: for in Christ Jesus I have begotten you through the gospel"? and did he not call Timothy and Titus his sons? (1 Timothy 1:2, Tutus 1:4) If he called them his sons then that must make Paul some type of father figure, and you and I both know that they these people were not Paul's physical children so he had to be speaking on a spiritual level. St. John called his converts, "My little children (St. John 2:1) those were not his children either they were his followers within the gospel. When we call the Bishop "Daddy" we are addressing his position as our father in the gospel of Jesus Christ, one who has begotten us through the gospel, however if you hear someone sing "Daddy you are my all, or Daddy my rock; we are NOT talking about the Bishop. We are refering to Christ, the power and wisdom of God, (Galations 4:4-6), AB'BA!, (Romans 8:14-16)AB'BA or in proper English that translates to "Father, Popa or Daddy". If during a revival you hear someone say call on "Daddy", it is the same as saying, call on AB'BA. You know, even Jesus or Yahoshua, which ever you prefer to address him as called on "AB'Ba", when he was in the Garden of Gethsemane, Mark 14:35-36. My friend we could talk on this subject until he returns but the bottom line is this, belief in God's word is everything that we need, you say that the revlation of truth is uncompromising then I wil leave you with this thaught, "For do I now persuade men or God? or do I seek to please men? for if I yet please men, I should not be the servant of Christ. But I certify you, brethren, that the gospel which was preached of me is not after man. For I neither received it of man, neither was I taught it, but by the revelation of Jesus Christ; (Yahoshua Ha Masiach) Eld.J.P.Jr.Uhop Atl. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 8:28 am: |
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24.178.109.29 I am a servant of G-d. I don't subscribe to labels, Christian or so forth, because they are man made labels. Labels divide, which is why throughout history, more wars have been fought over religion than anything else.
Yes, I stand by my statement that truth is uncompromising. It can sometimes be perceived as harsh. Many times G-d has to deal with us in ways we perceive as harsh to teach a lesson, because we are hard hearted. How many times was Israel punished, harshly because of refusal to obey G-d.
I am also well aware of the common uses of the term Abba. It was not necessary to go into detail on that one. And while Sha'ul(Paul) had a father figure relationship with his followers, it did not mirror the extreme reverence you show your leader. Paul's followers believed, I'm sure that he had the spirit of G-d in him as well. He was not set on a throne, being fanned by young girls, as if he's a king. Nor were any of the prophets of the Tanak. On the contrary, he spent alot of time in jail, and was eventually executed by Rome.
You see, you just don't have a biblical or historical precedent for these extreme practices. True nevi'im(prophets) do not make outrageous statements as I myself heard from McCollough many years ago in reference to the passing of someone, " I have opened the gates of heaven, that they may enter in." That's a matter best left to Ha Melech Ha Olam(King of the Universe) |
Gensistriplej (205.188.117.20)
| | Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 12:50 pm: |
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It doesn't matter if you are an UHOPFAP member or not. If you believe in the Almighty God the maker of Heaven and Earth. Then you're fine. I'm a member of the UHOPFAP and have been since birth. I have friends and family that are not members and we get alone great. The UHOPFAP is not a clut. But to those who believe that it is a clut, that's your opinion. You believe what you want to believe and I'll believe what I want. Weither it's right or wrong. God will be the judge at the end. So why debute over it?
There are still plenty of people in the UHOPFAP that doesn't understand, but they are taking the time to see for themselves and not take other people's neg. advice about it.
To those that have said that the Bishop is a false prophet, how do you really know? Do you know it in your heart? How do you not know that the Pastors or Elders of your own churches are not false? You don't know, now do you. You trust in them and believe in them. You know in your heart.
I believe and know that our Bishop is true and the reason I call on the name of Daddy is because I know who he is. It's not the man whom I call Daddy. But it's the spirit within the man that I call Daddy. It's not what you see, it's what you don't see. That's what I believe and that's what I know.
To all UHOPFAP I just want to say Thank you for helping me to help those who are not UHOPFAP members to understand. And to 24.193.202.236 you are very intellgent, but don't let your intellgence go to your head. Look at what happen to King Solomon. Too much wisdom isn't good. Why is it so important for you to point out if we're a clut or not? People believe what they want to believe. No matter what you say or believe. God will be the one who will make the ultimate decision in the end. |
gensistriplej (205.188.117.20)
| | Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 2:42 pm: |
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I'm correcting my spelling of clut. I mean cult. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Friday, June 11, 2004 - 8:08 pm: |
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How old are you, Gensistriplej? You sound very young. No offense to you, but I would suggest an intense study of biblical history. Along with a study of Hebrew and Greek, if you're serious about learning the scriptures. King James 1611 translation just doesn't cut it for the deeper meaning of things.
Just a friendly suggestion. |
Anonymous (209.214.185.21)
| | Posted on Sunday, June 13, 2004 - 6:11 pm: |
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I got a question to all UHOPFAP members.In my community here in Charlotte, NC,Why don't your leader invite other community churches to your services?Why don't your churches get involved with the community here in Charlotte(Beatties Ford rd.),sure you want the community to eat at your Churches(all 6 of them)but wont help the community.You may help your own members, but when we have so many homeless people in charlotte, you look down on them. |
Anonymous (66.159.68.20)
| | Posted on Monday, June 21, 2004 - 3:07 pm: |
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For the person in Charlotte. The House of Prayer is open nightly and to anyone who would like to attend. Why should our bishop have to send a special invitation to you, please feel free to attend for yourself. Also, if you have ever visited the HOP, you would know that we get a lot of visitors all the time, community leaders, politicians, musicians, preachers from other churches. A lot of the communiy activies and involvement would be more so up to the pastor. I know for a fact, that they do things in the community, and also to help the community. It may not be as much as you would like, but i know that they do sponser programs for them. We appreciate your patronage if you do eat at the cafeterias, and even if you don't thanks and God bless. We aren't politicians so we can't solve the political problems such as the homeless issues, you would have to write to your local Delegate for that. |
Anonymous (141.152.235.179)
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 2:33 pm: |
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Over twenty years ago a Christian young lady spoke the words of Jesus to me that have never left my spirit. “A tree is known by the fruit it bears”. What a profound, simplistic, and powerful statement that was spoken by the Lord Jesus. One’s beliefs must be supported by their words, actions, and lifestyle. The letter of James discusses this in detail. To say you believe is not enough. James tells us the devils believe and tremble (James 2:19).
UHOP members. To believe in Jesus means you follow Him and Him alone. To follow Him is to follow God because they are one. Notice the prophecy of Isaiah 7:14 restated in Matthew 1:23. It says “His name shall be called Immanuel,” which translated means, “God with us”. Joseph was told to call the newborn baby “Jesus”, which means “God saves” and was told he (Jesus) shall save his people from their sins. Matt. 1:21. Why was Joseph told to call him Jesus when the prophecy said his name shall be called Immanuel. To God what matters is the meaning of those names, that is the message to the world about the Savior. “God is with us” and “God saves”. Notice John 1:1, the Apostle John is speaking of Jesus when he calls him the Word. Read the passage slowly, is it not saying “In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God” ? Amen? It goes further to say “The same (Jesus or the Word) was in the beginning with God. All things were made by him (Jesus or the Word) and without him (the Jesus) was not anything made that was made. John 1:1-3. Now look at John 1:14, “and the Word became FLESH and dwelt among us. Remember the meaning of Immanuel “God with us”. Look at what John the Baptist called Jesus when he saw him in John 1:29 “ ..Behold, the Lamb of God that taketh away the sin of the world” Recall, Jesus means “God saves”. According to the scriptures, Jesus is God who took on human flesh. Since he humbled himself through this gracious act and submitted his humanity before God the Father he is the Son of God. God’s word became flesh. You see, Jesus (or Immanuel) was just the name he carried to send a message to the world about himself----God is living with you and he saves. I hope you can see this crucial message from the scriptures. In the Revelation, Jesus is also called “the Lamb”----another message that connects to the person for the world to see. Even God said in Isaiah 43:11 “I, even I am the Lord, and besides me there is no savior. Well, if Titus 1:3-4, 2: 10, 13 and 3:4-6 God and Jesus are called Savior interchangeably what mystery did Paul understand?
I have a question, is this the same Jesus you know? This was not revealed at all to me while in the UHOP. I was caught up in playing in the band and trying to earn my way into heaven by being good. Oh yes, Jesus was honored only with a small 5 second portion of a song. Maybe just a B flat warm up, but when it was announced “everyone remain standing and look to the holy mountain where God’s servant is and lift your hand high to heaven and repeat after me ‘Oh Lord we thank and praise thee for the founder, the builder, that keeps the holy kingdom through no one other than Sweet, Sweet, Sweet, Sweeter than Sweet Daddy Grace McCollough!” Oh boy, we in the band played 15 minutes or more. Who received the most honor?
It was only when the Holy Spirit moved on my spirit to read the Bible starting with the Gospel of John that He began to open my eyes to the wondrous Savior----Jesus Christ. A tree is known by the fruit it bears. I thank the Heavenly Father for His dear Son.----Jesus. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Monday, June 28, 2004 - 10:37 pm: |
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To 141.152.235.179 I'm glad you were delivered from this cult by G-d's grace. Unfortunately, the same will not be said for the majority of these people. They're too caught up in the charisma of "Daddy" to see the forest from the trees. |
Mykia (66.159.68.20)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 12:55 pm: |
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To the former member of the HOP, I am so glad that you got your "revelation", however, I would like to point about when we raise our hands to say Lord we thank and praise thee for sweet Daddy Grace, McCollough, or Madison who was really getting the honor....LORD we thank and praise thee, we didn't say Daddy we thank and praise thee, also you know or you should've known that Jesus is the chief cornerstone of our faith. Have you ever recited the Lord's Prayer, and what do you think that the part means when it says on earth as it is in Heaven, in heaven isn't there only one ruler. It just trips me out how former HOP members can bash the HOP, but are the first ones in the doors when there's a big funeral, or program or sometimes when the Bishop is in town, when you'll come to visit you'll sometimes beat the regular members shouting, but yet you are so thankful that God gave you some sort of revelation. You brought up John, the very one who baptized Jesus, and the very one who pointed out who he was, but in the end what did he do, he doubted who Jesus was. Could this be the same case. I am sorry if I am coming across as being angry, because I am not, I guess I am just venting. Since you'll have a problem with the HOP people saying Daddy, what does the church world say about all of these new artists who are now talking about daddy, and putting it in their songs, and in their sermons. I don't want to be like doubting Thomas, who believed only becuse he saw, I want to be blessed which I have been thus far because I believe in what I don't see which is the spiritual aspect of things. We don't have proof positive that we can say that Jesus ever lived or that there is somebody out there that can say that they've seen God, but we have faith thet there is a God, and we have Faith that he had a son named Jesus who gave his life on calvary's cross. Jesus said that him and his father were one, what made them one the spirit, so that's how we are in the HOP, we aren't walking by sight, because you need faith to please God. I am sure you know that Faith is the the things hoped for and the evidence of things not seen. |
Anonymous (66.42.128.149)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 3:45 pm: |
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Give me some feedback. Is this organization (church ) a cult or what. What's the deal. I really do not feel comfortable. Memebers Who calls there (pastor)bishop/leader-- Sweet Daddy. I feel all praises should go to a higher power( the one who made heaven and earth). Oh don't get me started the sun ,moon ,night and day. Am I missing something here or not. It grieves my spirit. Oh somebody help me with this thing. |
Anonymous (141.152.230.27)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 06, 2004 - 11:50 pm: |
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Mykia. The sad thing about being in a cult is you stand under a veil that covers your eyes from truth. Remember, I was there for years and still have family involved. You see the preachers mentioning Jesus in their sermons, rely on the feelings you get when the band plays, work to raise money for the organization, look to the “holy mountain when the bishop is in town and all in all it really seems okay. But then, you ignore all the deep devotion given to the bishop that has the “Christ Spirit” and everything seems justified. Someone pats you on the back and says “keep the faith”. And then you keep moving on for years. Unfortunately, oh how unfortunately, you will never see until you are out. It is tradition in the UHOP, that there are three million members in the organization, and most members believe that too. You question Jesus’ existence and yet stand based on faith.
-Have you ever questioned that 3,000,000 membership? The largest mother house can’t even hold 10,000. Do your math now.
-Have you ever questioned who had the “Christ Spirit” before Daddy Grace, McCollough, or Madison?
-Have you ever questioned why your speaking in tongues is never interpreted by other members as commanded in 1 Corinthians 14?
-Have you ever questioned why some band members play “holy music” while either drunk or high? Have you even noticed? (Believe me, I have seen it and played beside them)
-Have you ever questioned Daddy Grace’s arrest for running minor girls across state lines (Check your history---magazines, newspapers, of Daddy Grace’s time. College libraries are a good place to start)?
-Have you ever questioned Daddy Grace’s tax evasion which was one of the longest cases in U.S. legal history?
-Have you ever questioned the members selling beer in ball parks to raise money for the “kingdom”?
-Since Jesus is the Savior, and the Cornerstone of your faith why more people call on Daddy for salvation, remove Jesus’ name from songs, and end their prayers in Jesus’ name through GRACE amen? Have you questioned that? Will you check those things out?
Do I go on? And I say this kindly. I don’t return to see the bishop, could care less about the programs, or shout if I make a rare visit, which, is quite rare If I return for a funeral it is out of respect for the deceased person and the mourning family.
And honey those that doubted Jesus did not change who He really is. That was their faulting faith. READ YOUR BIBLE. Ask God for illumination. Check out and meditate on those verses I shared. It is a historical fact that Jesus existed, performed miracles, was crucified on a cross, and was missing from his tomb---whether you believe in the resurrection or not. I believe he was resurrected. |
Anonymous (66.208.214.235)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 11:33 am: |
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Please do not get the United House of Prayer for All People confused with other religious institution with similar names. Let it be known that the members of the United House of Prayer for All People do not confuse our leader with GOD or Jesus, each have their own specific role. Our Creed states that We believe in the Almighty GOD maker of Heaven and Earth. We believe in Jesus Christ his only begotten son who was conceived by the Holy Ghost and crucified for the redemption of the sins of the people, so that all men might have the right to the tree of life. See we know that GOD is almighty and the cause of us existing today and that Jesus died for our sins so that we might see GOD one day. Just as the times in the bible when there were prophets such as Moses and he was the mediator between God and the people, The same exist today. Yes, we love and respect our bishop for the leadership he provides and have given him the dear name of "Sweet Daddy" just as the catholics call their priest "Father." The name is a term of endearment not worship. I think you should visit one of our mortgage free edifices for services in over 136 congreagations within the contiental United States to get a better understanding. WE HOPE TO SEE YOU THERE. |
Mykia (66.159.68.20)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 07, 2004 - 1:16 pm: |
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First let me say in the HOP, no one is made to call the bishop Daddy, it is fine if you want to call him bishop, your honor, it doesn't matter, as long as there is a matter of respect there for his position as bishop, just as there should be respect for your pastor, or my pastor. I have been to revivals where people did not say Daddy, they called on Jesus, but later on when they learned and understood, and opened their spiritual beings just a little more, then yes they understood Daddy. Jesus is being talked about, and sang more than ever. As far as a feeling from a band, puhleaze, I can feel the holy ghost on my job, in my home, in my car, or even when the band isn't present, so what is the feeling that the preachers rely on when the drums and organ begins to play the "shout music" what is that?? As far as someone patting me on my back and saying keep the faith, doesn't the bible talk about calling on the elders of the church? Furthermore, I have faith, so I don't have to always speak my problems, I can go into prayer, or God can give me the answer through the spirit, or the preacher could have said something in his sermon that ministered to my situation. As far as the size of our membership, I really don't care about that, nor is that important, because there are a lot of places that are building these stadium sized places, and the pastor doesn't even have time to pat you on the back and say keep the faith as you put it. As far as me questioning Jesus' exsistence, you misunderstood what I was saying, I have never questioned his exsistence but what I was saying is that people have tried to present artifacts from biblical times, however we weren't there, so the only thing to prove his exsistence is The Bible, which we believe in by faith. Am I correct in saying so. You weren't there to see Jesus, in the flesh, but because you claim to be a baptized believer you believe because of your faith in God's word. As far as the sizes of the edifices, Why would you build an edifice for 3 million or so people, in a city where the population may have only 500, you do your math. That would not make sense. No, I don't ever really think about who had the Christ spirit before these men. As far as the band members go no I don't doubt it, however whatever is done in this mortal body, you are going to have to answer for it. Just because they are members of the HOP doesn't exempt them from doing wrong, but don't make it seem like we are the only ones that have things like that going on, what about these half drunk preachers, choir directors looking so much like men or women that you can't tell the difference, but I am not judging anyone, because as long as there is breath there is hope. As far as the legal issues go, I can't concern myself with that because, the only thing is important to me is the spiritual aspect of things, furthermore if you have favor with God then you will come out on top every time no matter what obstacles satan puts in your way. As far as working in the ball parks the HOP is not the only church that I have seen working out there, so if I work in a restaurant that sells alcohol I am wrong, because I profess to be saved, that's a job, and it's a fundraiser. As I stated before Jesus is being sang more and more and preached about more. I sing on a choir where we have more songs with Jesus in them, than Daddy. The ending of the prayer through Grace amen means through mercy, through your grace and mercy only will these things be granted or allowed to happen, not talking about a person. I believe in Jesus and his resurrection, because of him shedding his blood we are saved. I ask again what are the people who criticize the HOP saying about this newfound Daddy thing going across the airways, or in their churches, are they a cult too? |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Thursday, July 08, 2004 - 6:41 pm: |
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To Mykia, you can't concern yourself with the legal problems of Daddy Grace? Can't or won't? Sounds like the proverbial ostrich sticking his head in the sand to me. That's the problem with you cult members. Blind faith in a false prophet. |
Anonymous (141.152.234.245)
| | Posted on Friday, July 09, 2004 - 1:49 am: |
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Mykia. Please do not take this wrong, but I suspect by the spelling of your name you are between the 20-30 age range. Excuse me if I am wrong. I was a devoted member of the UHOP. My family and I were very active for years. My whole family on both sides grew up in the UHOP. For a long time we knew nothing else. My grandparents joined when Daddy Grace started churches in the South. They told me about his tent meetings, miracles and such. Today, many of my living relatives (with the exception of those grandparents and great grandparents that were members) are still very active. I was born when Daddy McCollough was bishop. I may have seen far more than you may be able to understand in the UHOP during his administration. God as my witness; I am not angry, resentful, or spiteful against the UHOP. I love the people of the UHOP. I will say though, I stand for truth. God revealed the truth. I feel the need to share the truth with you in Jesus’ name.
One day while rummaging through some of my grandparents old books I came across some printed UHOP material produced during the time when Daddy Grace was living. The author was Elder Bailey, the father of singer/actress Pearl Bailey, who was a respected and devoted member of UHOP during its early days. He made statements honoring Daddy Grace, and misused scripture numerous times to back his argument, that were blasphemous. And yes, he lifted Daddy Grace to a position of equality with the Son of God. I wish I had the book to get direct quotes. Perhaps, you have access to old UHOP materials. You see, members during his time believed Bishop Grace when he said Jesus can’t save you. Jesus is on vacation. Only Grace can save you. If you sin against God he will forgive you, but if you sin against Grace God can’t forgive you. This is where “in Jesus name through Grace” came from. The members sincerely believed that Daddy Grace’s name had power. When Daddy Grace died watch services held because they thought Daddy Grace was going to rise again. Now, you probably think I made all this stuff up. Talk to some old members in their eighties and nineties. They will tell you. Early members sincerely believed on Daddy Grace as a messiah. I distinctly remember my grandmother expressing her belief in salvation through this man. One of the things Elder Bailey mentioned in the book was the idea that the bishop is the mediator between God and man. This belief has carried on through the decades of the UHOP. Just as you mentioned about Moses being the mediator between God and Israel while they were in the wilderness. See 1 Timothy 2:5 “There is one God and one mediator between God and men----the man Christ Jesus”. It doesn’t say the “Christ Spirit” in a prophet. It says the man Christ Jesus, in other words Jesus Himself. I dare you to ask God is the United House of Prayer For All People is holds the true and find out what happens. I used to have nightmares about Bishops Grace and McCollough and couldn’t figure out why. They were God’s prophets, right? God was telling me through my dreams what the deal was. Then I had a dream about Jesus who beckoned to sit beside him. His face was as bright as the sun. After I believed on Jesus the nightmares ceased. Trust in Jesus.
24.193.202.236 . Be kind friend. Remember, you were there once and God had mercy on you to see the truth and deliver you from that wilderness. The scriptures say have your conversation seasoned with salt. I understand where you are coming from. You raise good, intelligent points, but “be kind to the blind.” |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 7:38 am: |
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141.152.234.245 Your point is well taken. Appreciate the insight. G-d bless. |
Anonymous (141.152.230.248)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 10, 2004 - 11:50 pm: |
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24.193.202.236 may God bless you too. |
Anonymous (141.152.230.248)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 11, 2004 - 12:08 am: |
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Mykia. Please excuse my editing. I meant to say I dare you to ask God if the UHOP is of the truth and find out what happens. May I add, don't ask a friend should you ask God or a UHOP bro. or sis. should you ask. They will definitely say, "the UHOP is in the bible, read Isaiah 56:7" That verse was speaking of the Jewish temple. I dare you to ask God if the UHOP is of the truth. When God starts to reveal don't dismiss it as being a coincedence or rational it all. Proverbs 3:5,6 says "Trust in the Lord with all thine all and lean not to thy own understanding, but in all thy ways acknowledge Him and He will direct your paths. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 9:25 am: |
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141.152.230.248 You are right on point with your drash(interpretation) of Isa 56:7. It is clearly a reference to the temple in Jerusalem. This is the only physical structure where G-d said he would put his name and dwell. |
Mykia (66.159.68.20)
| | Posted on Monday, July 12, 2004 - 1:05 pm: |
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Good afternoon to all. First let me say, no I can not concern myself with those issues, which are probably more than 50 years old, also, it's not my battle however it was Gods battle, and you pray on it and leave it alone. Yes, I am younger than 30, but I was blessed with a mom who instilled in me the true value of The HOP. I was blessed to travel and witness many things in my young life. As I have stated on other occasions the people back in Daddy Graces day weren't as learned as we are in these days, some could not write, read, etc. however they could outpreach any preacher that you put them against, now maybe some of what they did we don't understand or will never understand perhaps. If it was all about the man as the world tries to put it, then why wasn't the HOP shut down when the leaders, passed on? As for me I know I still attended service, shouted, and did everything that I normally did when Daddy McCollough passed. See it's nothing that no one can say about the HOP because, I have witnessed to many miracles, I have recieved so many blessings, I have recieved healing. I like it that we recieve this much attention because this lets me know that we are being a peculiar people, like the bible says. Do you think God would allow us to go on for almost 80 years if The HOP wasn't right. Do you think we would prosper as much as we do as a people. Also, another point I would like to bring up, the bible was written in the times of jewish temples, and such however how we can we apply only certain parts of the bible to today, and not the whole thing, if GOD had a house then why can't he do it now. I can't convince you, and you DEFINITELY can't make me doubt him, so I say to you in closing be kind as well my friend. Oh you still never answered my question about what the church world is saying about everyone starting to say Daddy now. |
Anonymous (68.169.53.22)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 12:33 am: |
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To Mykia: Stay strong and keep holding on because I know and I see that you know that The United House of Prayer For All People is teaching the true gospel of OUR Lord and Savior Jesus Christ. Which is the same gospel that Peter and the other disciples were teaching after Jesus Chirst had gone back to Glory to sit on the right side of His Father. |
Anonymous (151.199.239.131)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 12:45 am: |
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Mykia. Many false religions have continued on while their founders lie in their graves. I think of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints (Mormons) that have continued on and grown world wide since the death of their founder and first president, Joseph Smith. For one hundred seventy three years they have grown world wide in membership, and built new churches, while preaching a doctrine that believes denies parts of the bible while accepting the things that support their cause. (Yet, they try to get you to call for a free bible on one of their spiffy commercials.) The Mormons, by the way, claim to have God’s only modern Prophet. The Mormons have been in existence well over one hundred years and continue in preaching a false message. Their founder even wrote several religious guide books of which they say compare to and are better than the bible. They claim to have God’s blessings and power resting on them. They speak of healings, miracles, talk in tongues, and claim evidence to many spiritual gifts. You think the UHOP has built magnificent edifies, you should see theirs. They are one of the riches churches in world and are extremely modern and sophisticated. (See www.lds.org) And talk about a peculiar people; the LDS’ history possess documented accounts of their religious practices bringing several cities to run their worshipers out of town and even states until a multitude of them forged to the west where they broke ground and founded the state of Utah. I have heard some Mormon missionaries say the same things you have said about God’s approval because of such a lengthy existence. But Proverbs 14:12 says “There is a way that seems right to a man, but the end thereof are the ways of death.” Some religious teachings seem right, feel right, sound right, and look right, but they lead to hell---God’s final judgment---death.
I honestly don’t know why some gospel groups are using Daddy in their songs, but I can bet my pay check and tank of gas they are not referring to the UHOP unless they are UHOP members producing the music. I have another request for you----read Acts 4:10-12 and respond. 68.169.53.22 I have the same request for you. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 10:06 am: |
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I've never heard any mainstream gospel artists use the name Daddy in a song either, unless they are UHOP members. Most other christian groups reject the UHOP as a cult anyway. |
Mykia (66.159.68.20)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 2:52 pm: |
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Thank you to the person who said stay strong in the HOP. There have been many false prophets and many false religions, but when it comes to the topic of religion it's sort of touchy, because everybody has great faith in what they believe in. It's just like politics;that is one advantage of living in this great country, freedom of speech and freedom of religion. There is one person and one person only who can do the judging and that is GOD almighty. So please stop judging me and my faith, just pray that I will continue to live a clean and holy life, and press toward the mark of the high calling. As far as the gospel artists singing Daddy, I just heard a song on Sunday on a gospel station here where the gentleman was singing about Daddy, and no he wasn't a HOP member, also theres another song out that talks about I'm so rich, and I am rich because my Daddy is rich, it has a little reggae beat. Also, I hear so many church people saying Daddy now, who aren't members of the HOP, so trust me we are not at all talking about a man but the spirit, because flesh and blood profit us nothing, however it is the spirit that counts!! No I am not saying that GOD is granting us favor because we have been here for almost 80 years, but we keep prospering, and moving on up just a little bit higher. God will do the seperating as I stated before, just as he will have mercy upon whom he pleases. Everybody have a blessed day. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Tuesday, July 13, 2004 - 5:40 pm: |
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Mykia no one is judging you. However, your bishop claims to be a spiritual leader and as such, is open territory. The BIble holds spiritual leaders accountable for their actions, because they have the trust of the people. When the scripture says judge not, it means don't judge without full knowledge of the situation. We make judgements every day in our lives. We make judgements in who to marry,who to hire for a job,etc. There are means and measures used to determine the worthiness of an individual, then we make a decision. If we had no authority at all, we should change our court system and never convict criminals and let all the inmates out of prison, because as you say,"Judge not". |
Anonymous (68.169.53.22)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 12:42 am: |
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To 24.193.202.236 Mykia didn't say to "Judge not" that is what The Holy Bible said! |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 7:26 am: |
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68.169.53.22 Did she not say, "please stop judging me and my faith? " Hence my reply to her post explaining what the Bible means by the, "judge not..." statement. Too many people use that term loosely without full understanding. Learn reading comprehension before you address me. |
Mykia (66.159.68.20)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 10:06 am: |
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Please let's keep all comments seasoned with grace. Maybe a better term would've been stop trying to condemn my faith, and spiritual leaders. Just becuse you may feel something is wrong, it may be right for someone else. Allow GOD to be the judge, and yes my bishop IS a spiritual advisor, and yes he knows he is going to have to give an account for every deed done in this mortal body. He knows he is not Jesus, nor does he want to be Jesus, the only thing we are striving to do is to be like him, and hopefully in that great getting up morning, we shall see Jesus again. Doesn't the bible also speak of giving honor to whom honor is due? |
Douglas (68.162.47.188)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 9:57 pm: |
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Judge not means to not hate when you discern. It doesn't mean to deny what you see. |
Anonymous (205.188.117.20)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 14, 2004 - 11:54 pm: |
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FOR THE POSTS WHO ARE NOT MEMBERS OF THE UHOP, WHAT FAITH DO YOU BELIEVE IS GOD'S TRUE FAITH,PLEASE GIVE EXPLANTION. OR DO YOU FEEL ALL RELIGIONS ARE CLUTS. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 1:06 pm: |
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To 204.188.117.20 G-d did not create "faiths" or "religion". These are man made inventions. He has law and statutes, for man to follow. Nowhere in the Bible will you find any religion mentioned. |
Anonymous (205.188.117.20)
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 10:16 pm: |
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thank you 24.193.202.236, when Jesus said mine house shall be called a house of prayer for all people, in your opinion what was he refering to.
To other post do you agree with 24.193.202.236? |
Douglas (141.153.132.197)
| | Posted on Thursday, July 15, 2004 - 10:46 pm: |
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Christ Jesus came to do away with religion. Religion is one form of cult. It is a culture people identify with in their pride. The just shall live by faith, whatever that is, and not religion. Does that answer your question Anonymous (205.188.117.20)? |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Friday, July 16, 2004 - 8:06 am: |
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205.188.117.20 When Yeshua(Jesus) made that statement, he was referring to the Jewish temple, not the United House of Prayer For All People. This is not my opinion, but fact. You must study biblical history to get the full meaning of the bible,not to mention the revelation through the Ruach Ha Kodesh(Holy Spirit). The temple is the only physical structure where G-d said He would put His name.
Isaiah 56 chapter is a future prophecy pointing to a time when all nations,(Jew and Gentile) will worship the Almighty in Eretz Yisrael(land of Israel) in the Messianic Age. Meaning, that time has not arrived yet. We certainly don't see that manifested in the UHOP. The messianic age is certainly not here yet. All nations definitely don't flock to the UHOP as indicated by biblical prophecy, but then again, why should they? |
Anonymous (64.12.117.20)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 3:11 pm: |
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SO ESSENTIALLY EVERYONE THAT ATTENDS A CHURCH, IS A MEMBER OF A CULT? IS DOES NOT MATTER IS YOU ARE A HOP MEMBER OR NOT. |
Douglas (68.162.42.196)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 8:41 pm: |
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Anonymous (64.12.117.20) said
Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 03:11 pm
"SO ESSENTIALLY EVERYONE THAT ATTENDS A CHURCH, IS A MEMBER OF A CULT? IS DOES NOT MATTER IS YOU ARE A HOP MEMBER OR NOT."
That is basically correct. You were born in sin. Satan is the ruler of this age.
Only if you use your cultural identity as an escape. You could attend anything and not take identity in it. Cults that are not abusing anyone are safe places.
People are more hurt by their own weakness and resenting people and reliving hurts over and over than by the actual wrong that has been done. Be bold and speak up truth and expose what is wrong and you will be kicked out of your cult if they don't receive you. The truth will set you free! The public schools can hurt you. Your mother can be super sweet and spoil you. From your mother to the Pope, God bless them, they're all part of your cult and you need to be saved. Overcome. Repent. |
Anonymous (141.152.231.174)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 17, 2004 - 11:10 pm: |
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64.12.117.20 your reasoning needs to be adjusted. I do not say that to insult you. Every church is not a cult. A Christian cult is usually identified by a deviation from doctrines and precepts of historical, orthodox Christianity. Believe it or not, each religion has its own cults---sects that veer away from the original orthodox teachings of that religion. In the case of the UHOP, it falls in this category because the members and leadership, from its inception, have teachings contrary to orthodox, biblical, New Testament Christianity. While the UHOP has qualities that make it look like an ordinary church, when a biblically sound Christian stays a while he or she senses by the Holy Spirit that there is a problem. Namely, the central focus of the membership is on the name of the organization and each Bishop. Daddy Grace began this tradition and it has carried on to this present day. Take the symbolism in the UHOP, for example----the “holy mountain”---a guarded feature in every “house”. Every UHOP, no matter the size, has one. (There is a great chance that the residing bishop will never enter that smaller ‘house’, but there had better be a “mountain” with a chair.) This elevated platform is the central part of the pulpit (and the whole main sanctuary) and is designated the “holy mountain” because the bishop or “prophet” goes up the mountain, as Moses did, to receive a message from God. There is a special and comfortable chair on the “holy mountain” for the bishop which is most centrally located and is for him alone. His wife has her own chair on the mountain off to the side. Dare if you will to sit in that chair---you may end up in the hospital as you are forcefully removed from the premises. UHOP and former members, am I right or wrong? Even the senior minister had better not sit in that chair. Bishop Madison would not dare sit in that chair when McCollough was bishop, nor McCollough when Grace was bishop. You may say, ‘well the pope has a special chair and no one complains’—well they’re not right either and I personally consider them the biggest pseudo-Christian cult in the world. Again, much of their focus is on someone other than Christ such as Mary. They have deviated from the scriptures.
Now---did the House of Prayer for all people in Jesus’ time have a special chair for the arriving Messiah? Did Jesus command that a centrally located comfortable chair be placed in the temple for Him? Some may say that Jesus did taught from the Mount of Olives? I will then ask was the House of Prayer built on the Mount of Olives?
24.193.202.236 you are on target. I wish there was a way you and I could swap e-mail addresses so we can rap, but I do understand the need for discretion. Stay safe. Perhaps God will open another door. In the meantime, God bless you and keep studying the word. May I ask, though, did you attend a UHOP north or south of the Mason-Dixon Line? I attended south of the Mason Dixon. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 18, 2004 - 1:53 am: |
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141.152.231.174 Thanks for the encouragement. My former UHOP congregation is in New York. It's good to hear from someone who grasps what I am saying. Good to hear someone has figured out the scam through G-d's mercy and has gotten out.
How long ago were you a member? I was in the neighborhood of the NY Mother House today when I noticed a sign announcing the arrival of the "holy prophet", Sweet Daddy Madison for convocation in early August. On the sign was a quotation from Lev 23:4 "These are the feasts of the L-rd, even holy convocations, which you shall proclaim in their seasons..."
Funny, if one reads the whole chapter,not just passages selected by the UHOP leadership to justify their warped interpretations, you will see the names of these feast days and convocations,given to Israel. Holy days such as the sabbath,passover,feast of weeks(shavuot), and so forth. Things the UHOP has never done. The convocations, or gatherings have nothing to do with UHOP traditions.
It saddens me that there is so much biblical ignorance out there, not just among the UHOP rank and file, but society in general. I still have many things to learn, but am trying to grow stronger every day. |
Mykia (66.159.68.20)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 11:25 am: |
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Well, good morning to my fellow chat room friends!! Starting with the special seat and the Holy Mountain. Every church that I have gone into has an altar, there is always a special seat for the pastor or the bishop of that church, so why is that so wrong for the HOP? As far as the Bishop not going to the smaller congregations, you are sadly mistaken. During Bishop Madisons time as Bishop, we have visited some of the smallest congregations, as well as the largest. The reason why no one sits in that chair, is a level of respect, just like the pastors chair, I wouldn't sit there because it's a respect level for that position. As far as a special seat for Jesus goes, me nor you were back in those times, but I do know HE was the focal point, but as far as where he sat, I don't know; and is that really an important factor?? I am grieved as well at such Biblical Ignorance floating around today. To some people the bible is just a book, and if you don't have faith, and ask God to grant you with spiritual wisdom, and understanding then it will remain just that,a book. Have a blessed and peaceful day!! |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 1:05 pm: |
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HOP members, care to address the clear cut misinterpretation of Lev 23:4 by your church leadership? Or will the wrath of Daddy come down upon you? |
Mykia (66.159.68.20)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 4:14 pm: |
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Excuse Me, please keep your comments on a respectful level. What was misinterpreted about that scripture? The sign that was displayed was talking about the Convocation. So again I say what was wrong with that? |
Anonymous (207.69.137.204)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 8:38 pm: |
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Hello to the message board:
First of all let me address a few issues of my own, I have studied the UHOPFAP for the past seven years and I decided that it is a misunderstood organization. It is not for us to judge any one. Everyone of us have a right to worship as they please.If this is the path they seek so be it.
Keep in mind that it is the job of a true christian to empower the lost soul with the word of God and bring him or her back into the fold. I can say that there are a lot of people that are brain washed in this organization. Some do not know what the organization stands for or know why they do the things they do (monkey see monkey do) Often when I spoke at the UHOPFAP the people would look for a jubilee sermon but I give the true word of God which our heavenly Father wants them to hear.
A brief history; I climbed the ladder from a mere brother to an elder in a matter of three years. (Amazed don't be there are elders every day given letters to preach when they really are not equiped to do so) Became an assistant pastor in that time frame. I studied the history and went to the seminary as it is called. Very interesting stories that have been told by the older Apostles and Elders that I have spoken with. There is enough to really say God is not in it. It's all man........
I as others before me that left the UHOPFAP for whatever reason there was have similar beliefs and certain problems with the doctrine. One is people who always solicit tickets and other events to raise money (hate it). I despise holding the offering for 30 minutes to an hour to meet an goal for the house. People will give free will if given the right words; Gods word G-class for recognition is another story.
I strickly adhere to the word of God where it states(KJV) of our requirements and that is tithes and offerings, Christians you know where it is in Malachai 3rd chapter. Any thing other than that does not make since.
I pray that those in power will recognize the power of an awesome God and realize that he is the Rock of the foundation that governs every church and the church should be in you. Again I say don't judge them because God will do the separating at the end.
P-U-S-H: pray until something happens. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Wednesday, July 21, 2004 - 10:51 pm: |
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Mykia my dear...the verse in Leviticus does not refer at all to your church's convocation season. Please read my previous post explaining that and go into your bible and read the whole chapter. The bible tells quite a different story.
As far as the tone of my comments go, they were pretty tame compared to what I could say. My opinion of your leader is well documented on this site. Enough said about him. |
Anonymous (24.49.38.42)
| | Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 12:24 am: |
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to 24.193.202.236 All though this chat site I can go back and read were you have made some of the most un-Godly comments on this post, but yet you suppose to be such a true beleiver in the Holy Bible. The Bible said's blessed are the peacemakers. IT is easy to see by your comments the you is just about confusion. You suppose to let your light shine so that men may see your light. Your light shines about as bright as a brand new flashlight without batteries. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 3:14 am: |
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24.49.38.42 That's your opinion. That and $2.00 will let me ride the NYC subway. That's about how much your comment is worth to me. And you think I "is about confusion"? Where did you learn English? Don't plan on writing a thesis or giving a lecture in the near future, ok? |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Thursday, July 22, 2004 - 7:13 am: |
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To 207.69.137.204 Would you mind sharing a couple of the stories you heard while in the seminary? Just curious. |
Anonymous (141.152.233.106)
| | Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 1:03 am: |
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24.193.202.236 I am encouraged by you serious study of the word of God which is so lacking in our whole society. This is why cults flourish today---many so-called Christians do not pick up the word of God as often as they should. I am still learning also. I just want to draw closer to the God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ, but I thank God for that great day of deliverance. I was a member for at least 15 years. From birth to my mid teens I was indoctrinated with the “holy prophet” teaching.
I find it most interesting about the “holy prophet” going up the “holy mountain” and I really expected a UHOP member to respond to my questions about this central feature because you know
Mykia. I notice several time you use the argument that ‘none of us were back in those times.’ Historically speaking, kings had thrones, judges had special seats, etc. and that includes the ancients. Please locate and share biblical scriptures that speak of Jesus Christ having special seat on a “holy mountain” while on earth or in the house of prayer which was the temple. Grant it, there are special seats in churches, but they do not hold the reverence that these elevated, centrally located chairs have. And you know it. UHOP members please admit the truth. The exalted chair in question has a status that is beyond just respect---it is a holy relic within every UHOP. Am I right or wrong 24.193.202.236? Dig the symbolism though, created by the early members of UHOP. The “holy prophet” goes up the “holy mountain”. In Revelation, it does speak of God sitting on a throne Rev. 4:2-5. I hope this symbolism is not asserting something blasphemous.
24.193.202.236. Interesting comment about Lev. 23:4-25. I wonder if these people are looking up these scriptures. Since we are Christians, I’d like to find out where in the New Testament does a prophet lead a church? The scriptures teach us in 1 Cor. 12:28 that “God has appointed FIRST apostles, SECOND prophets,…”, but the “holy prophet” in the UHOP is of a higher position. According to these verse the UHOP and the Mormons have the hierarchy a little backwards. I’d like to find out where a prophet lead God’s people in the Old Testament other than Samuel. Even then, Samuel was a prophet residing a as judge over the people until God told him to anoint Saul as king.
207.69.137.204. I like P-U-S-H, that’s cool. I will continue to do that. My friend, you are correct, we should not judge, but examine Matt. 7:1-5. The judgment Christ Jesus is speaking of is when a person in the same or worse condition than his brother has a lot to say about his brother. Its like calling some one a drunk, but I drink a fifth of liquor just as much or more. He is the type of person that is like “the pan calling the kettle black” without examining and correcting his own life. That is why Jesus tells the listener to take the plank out of his own eye first. I don’t think judging is taking place here. A tree is known by the fruit it bears--Matt. 12:33. I once heard an old preacher say “Christ never called me to be a judge, but he did call me to be a fruit inspector.” My friend, I love the people of the UHOP, but the organization bears rotten fruit and for too many years that rot has spread throughout the whole crate. My fear is that many will enter the gates of hell, because they know not the Savior---Jesus Christ. I know; I was there. They are not misunderstood, they are mistaken. This posting board is good because it gives us means to proclaim who is selling bad fruit and maybe, by the grace of God, some of the current members will be challenged to read the word of God to have their eyes opened by the Holy Spirit. To date, many UHOP members are not good bible students or even care to be. They would much rather rely on the words of their bishop, wait for that “feeling” to come over them and “shout” to band music. It is all about “feeling” with them, but feeling have been wrong. They need to stand on the rock---the Word of God. That good hymn says, “Be very sure, be very sure your anchor holds and grips the solid rock.” It continue by saying that rock is Jesus. We need to give them good direction on how to study God’s word so that they have chance to meet Jesus. Many of them use that UHOP cliché “Jesus gave us the right to the Tree of Life”, but they don’t even understand what they are saying. I will continue to share, debate, and pray for them. That’s how I became free. Praise Jesus!!! |
Anonymous (141.152.233.106)
| | Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 1:12 am: |
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I'd like to recommend that UHOP members and anyone else to compare scripture with scripture in order to get understanding of passages. Please study the Bible UHOP members. It is not just for preachers, and elders to read. Do not say I can not understand it. Read Proverbs 2. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 12:05 pm: |
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141.152.233.106 You are definitely on point. The extreme reverence, (hey let's call it what it truly is, idol worship) for the bishop is way out of bounds. One of my relatives was a minister, and had a pastor's chair, but there was no barrier, human or otherwise preventing me from sitting in the chair if I wanted when service was not going on.
You are also correct that historically speaking, prophets, with a few exceptions, were never rulers. They were advisors, unwelcome ones at that to the kings of Israel and Judah. But this fact is lost upon the HOP members, since they don't study for the most part. You know the saying, you want to hide something from some people, put it in a book. They would rather have the James Brown revue "Bring yo shoutin' shoes!!"
Men of G-d are to be servants to the people, not the other way around. |
1Lord.1Faith.1Baptism (198.26.122.12)
| | Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 12:08 pm: |
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I don't have at lot of time but Let me say this to all members and friends(that have worsiped with us), or friends looking for a place to worship the Almighty God in spirit and in truth. The devil is the god of the earth and prince of the air. How is this internet transmitted? Through the air. Becareful of wolf in sheep clothing. If you are sincere in finding salvation, peace,joy, a spiritually intamate relationship with CHRIST; Jesus, said these thing come by fasting and praying. So pray before and after you read these opinions and lies for the Bible says that Many have gone out to decieve many. Satan, devils, know the scriptures and will use it agains you Just like he did in Luke/4 to Jesus so don't let Satan use the word against you. Those that know the truth, the way, and the life which is in Christ don't be persuaded to leave or test some other source(s) of religon. For you have been espoused to ONE husband which is Christ, don't be adulterous(1cor11:1&2). Those that have been born again (St Jn 3:3) don't turn your backs and close you eyes to the truth. The time is nigh and evil is on every hand it is not a time to play with sin. We must stand on the promises of thee Almighty God (1 promise can be found in Ish 56:7, Mark 11:17). Don't be discourage or allow yourselves and your families to be misled by different doctrines. Christ is simple don't make it hard for yourself. I just turned 18 but I was begotten by Bishop S.C M..(Daddy/Christ)in the gospel when I was 14 and I've been in alot and through a lot but I held on. A lot of temptation and evil communication but I kept on holdin. Parents separated, friends left, family left, Been held at gun point, hospitalized, diagonised with life long disease, major car accidents. But I'm still here holding on to the rope. I know I can get one holy ghost witness that Daddy is real. That Daddy is the Christ spirit in the Man(Jesus was that man, Peter was that man, Paul, Grace, McCoullgh, now Madison is that man). That Daddy/Christ can hear you when you lose control of your car, when your on your sick bed when Madison wasn't even around. There's Somebody on here/out there That knows Daddy is a healer that He'll keep food on the table, be your mother/bro./sis., a rock to lean on, a bridge over troubled water, whatever you need he's got it. Daddy is Christ, Christ is not divided my dear freinds. Hold up right there cuz that just confused somebody that don't understand. How does Daddy come before Christ. Like I said don't make it hard**(2cor 11:3,4). Respect and Dignity have gone from our poeple. But not those who know God/Christ,Jesus/Holy spirit Watch. We would never call, Christ, OUR FATHER BY HIS FIRST NAME!!! but we call Him who He is in relation to us He is OUR DADDY by the adoption of spirit.Would you call your father e.g Bob, no but if you said Dad your still talking to Bob. Simple so Simple I don't Have time to debunk all of this nonsense. Those who are seeking you will find. Knocking it will be opened. Asking it shall be givin. So if you deep down in your heart want the Lord in your life come to the UNITED HOUSE of PRAYER ALL PEOPLE CHURCH on the ROCK of the APOSTALIC FAITH were He said Himself He would be(check yellow pages 4 your local UHOP). MY soul is vexed sore by some of the statements placed here and eslewhere Those who have contributed remember that we all will face the judgement of Christ, that precious soul are in the balance and what you have/had placed here will be brought up in your judgement. This hurts so much because It is written in scripture that this time would come when false christ and prophets would rise and it is here. James said that those that are not with us were never truely with us or they would have stayed. These testimonies about I was there` don't fall for that. Judas was there! so what does that mean. Nothing because there is a secret place (Ps 91:1)that you can't see by just being in the building. Please I'm beging you get in the Word of God for it is the only thing that will be able to stand the test of time. If you read anywhere from Genesis to Rev' with a pure heart and ask for God's wisdom and understanding he will direct your paths in His own time to the doors of the United House of Prayer And you will be able to say Ps 84:10. Reminding all Members especially, *learn the bible and the value and meaning of the UHOP before getting up and embarassing us! *1Tim2:15. Paul said(Titus 3:9,10) after the 1st or 2nd arguement leave it alone for they are heretics, don't force our doctrine on people, neither cast thy pearls before the...;let your speech be seasoned with salt full of grace. Before I go, In the Grace era there was 1 mil $$$ for anyone that could prove this org. wrong no one got that $ so it's still on the table? Hahahahahah Have a blessed day Peace to my bro. and sis.May grace be muiltplied
P.s We face much opposion but so did God's children from Noah till now. Come into the ark work on the ark(2Cor5:1) Because God is not slack concerning His promise(2Pet,3**please read it's only 18v's) Repent and be baptize with water and with the Holy Ghost and fire. Cuz it won't be water but fire next time(this time)
Supportive vv Psalms 150,Eph 4:5,Heb 4:16, Gen 28:16&17,Duet 12:13,2Chron 7:14>16...That's engough. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Friday, July 23, 2004 - 11:26 pm: |
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Excuse me 198.26.122.12 but you sound like a parrot spewing HOP myths. Let me correct you on a couple of scriptures. Heb 4:16 symbolically refers to G-d's throne, meaning his rulership over the universe, not referring to an office chair probably purchased from Staples where your little man sits in your little church being fanned by young girls. Is it me, or is there something wrong with that picture?
Gen 28:16-17 Refers to a place in the land of Canaan,(later to be called Eretz Yisrael or land of Israel)named by Jacob as Beth-El or Bethel meaning "House of G-d" after he had his dream of angels descending and ascending the ladder. Again, I repeat, this does not refer to the UHOP. Follow along now...are you with me? Don't want this to go over your head now.
Deut 12:13 "Take heed to thyself that thou offer not thy burnt offerings in every place that thou seest:" Your point here? You make no sense whatsoever. Go figure. This is G-d directing Moses on where to offer animal sacrifices. That's what a "burnt offering" is.
2 Chron 7:14-16 This is part of Solomon's prayer to G-d dedicating the temple in Jerusalem. This is clear cut and dry. How can anyone read this and come up with any other conclusion? You have a care my friend about misquoting scripture. You will have to give an account yourself. |
Anonymous (207.69.138.198)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 6:29 am: |
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24.193.202.236 If you have heard me speak in the UHOPFAP you would have learned a lot about the stories of the seminary. There are actual events that have taken place that were not told in the seminary. These events were told to me during my travels throughout the UHOPFAP during the year of 2000 by your Apostles, Ministers(Pastors), Elders Deacons and members who wanted to try to impress me of the UHOPFAP. I am not impressed with the findings and the stories that were told. P-U-S-H.
Pray Until Something Happens and don't let it be said that it was too late. The Lord is coming back for a church will you be ready. |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 8:38 am: |
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During my time in the UHOP I also heard many stories pertaining to the founder C.M. Grace and successor W. McCollough, things I would put on par with myths of Greek heroes and so forth. I remember something I saw many years ago during NY convocation at the softball game. McCollough was there giving out "blessed" candy to the people. Instead of simply handing the candy out, he tossed it in the air and the people scrambled after it the way pigeons in the park do when you feed them. I didn't question it at the time, but looking back on it, I now say, what a way of demeaning people. |
Anonymous (152.163.253.102)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 6:31 pm: |
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TO 24.193.202.236, YOU MUST BE REALLY AGAINST THE UHOP, BECAUSE YOU ARE THIS SITE 24/7, DO YOU HAVE TIME TO DO ANYTHING ELSE? |
Anonymous (24.193.202.236)
| | Posted on Saturday, July 24, 2004 - 10:25 pm: |
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152.163.253.102 What's the matter? Get under your skin? Is that the best you can do? You're dismissed, child. |
Anonymous (141.152.235.137)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 2:03 am: |
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1Lord.1Faith.1Baptism (198.26.122.12) In the name of Jesus, may God open your blind eyes quickly before they close forever. That was the most foolish dissertation I have read on this post net, but I am certainly glad you made your statements because it gives the readers that are searching for answers about the UHOP just what they needed to read---the sheer madness of a zealous UHOP member mind. You have taken a bunch of scriptures and misused them to, not enlighten, but encourage foolishness. Nevertheless, God’s word will not return to Him void, but will go out and accomplish what He has sent it out to do (Isaiah 55:11). One thing you did get right, many false prophets will arise and was self evident by your comments. I apologize for being brash.
Please explain the connection between the bishop’s chair, the holy mountain, Jesus and the original house of prayer for all people. |
Anonymous (141.152.235.137)
| | Posted on Sunday, July 25, 2004 - 2:54 am: |
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