| Author | Message | ||
     ccccarah (ccccarah) New member Username: ccccarah Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.2.73.168 |
Well, I just decided that since so many of you out there think mormons are freaks I would at least try to help you understand why we're not. Plus I just wanted to start over with a new thread. "Oh yeah, they say they're christian when they totally aren't!" Hey, fyi; a christian is anyone that is a follower of christ. WE'RE THE CHURCH OF JESUS CHRIST OF LATTER-DAY SAINTS! IT'S IN OUR NAME! WE'RE AS CHRISTIAN AS THEY COME! I hope that didn't come off rude. I'm just trying to help. if you have any questions on anything feel free to ask me at my email: hickeyfromkenickie@hotmail.com | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 178 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
You can call yourself Christian. You can put Christ in your church's name. But where in the Judeo-Christian scriptures does it say that God was once a man? | ||
| ccccarah (ccccarah) New member Username: ccccarah Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.2.73.168 |
It never does! Jesus is the son of god and he came to earth as a man. Jesus...not god. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
Franklin But where in the Judeo-Christian scriptures does it say that God was once a man. You are breaking our agreement. The Jewish scriptures don’t support your religion, either. So, saying that they don’t support another Christian denominations beliefs is misleading. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
ccccarah a christian is anyone that is a follower of christ. That matches my beliefs 100% | ||
| ccccarah (ccccarah) New member Username: ccccarah Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 158.91.55.3 |
Wait, what? yes, ok then? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 192 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.148.54.249 |
Yaakov, you broke that agreement right after we made it. Mormons are not a denomination of the Christian Church. They are new age group that has borrowed from many world religions and stole the name of Jesus Christ to try to add legitimacy to their doctrines. One of their many doctrines is that Yahweh was a man before He became God. And that any man following the mormon faith can become equal to Yahweh. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
franklin Mormons are not a denomination of the Christian Church. Since they believe that Jebus is a god, then they are a Christian denomination. That is the ONLY commonality among all the dozens of Christian denominations. They are new age group that has borrowed from many world religions and stole the name of Jesus Christ to try to add legitimacy to their doctrines. So, why are you so angry that they have beliefs different from you? With your logic, I should be angry that Christianity borrowed from Judaism doctrines to try to add legitimacy to their doctrines. One of their many doctrines is that Yahweh was a man before He became God. Yes, I see that you post this over and over. It always gives me a chuckle. Since Jebus was allegedly born to a human mother and Christian doctrine is that God had to appear as a man, it never makes sense to me that you then deny that Jebus was a man. He was born, his hair grew, he learned to walk, and he ate food. Are you saying that the Eternal God had to do these things? | ||
| 69thstreet (69thstreet) New member Username: 69thstreet Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 137.3.122.49 |
church of lsd (just kidding) I work with a morman and hes pretty cool | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 205 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.152.230.67 |
I am not talking about Jesus. That was a diversive arguement to get me off subject. To a mormon, Yahweh (or what you refer to as the eternal God) was a man before he became God. Now they can believe whatever they want to believe. Just as you can. But when they say they are Christians also, that is heresy. Would you recognize as a legitimate Jewish sect, a group that believed that God was once a man? Wouldn't you believe that that sect with that doctrine would discredit Judaism as a whole? If so, that is where I am coming from. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Franklin But when they say they are Christians also, that is heresy. Would you recognize as a legitimate Jewish sect, a group that believed that God was once a man? You're right. I now understand your POV regarding Mormons. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) New member Username: solopilot Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Franklin: Where in what little you have of the Scriptures does it say that God was never a man? Yaakov: Franklin, as many other Protestant cultists, claims the authority to speak for Christ, to determine what is and is not truly Christian, yet refuses to put his own cult to the same standards of proof that he puts Mormonism. Funny, though, Protestant cultism is an offshoot of the Roman Catholic church, which brought forth the Holy Bible in AD 394. The very name, "Protestant" refers to the protests of the early leaders against the apostasy of the Catholic doctrines (such things as celebrating the birth of Christ during a pagan holiday and the claims of priests that they speak with the authority of Christ), yet in later years, Protestants continued to celebrate on pagan holidays and claimed authority to speak for Christ. They preach a Gospel different than that of the Bible (which they claim to follow), then condemn us for not following their manmade doctrines. Franklin's POV is that only he and his particular subcult can truly define Christian doctrine, and all others are heretics. Protestant extremists are like Muslim extremists, committing atrocities and even murdering those who don't agree with their view of "truth," doing so in the name of Jesus. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 89 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Solopilot I didn’t say Franklin was right, I said that I understood his POV. Subjective definitions are always a problem, because the answers differ according to each person. I have made an observation that people in different religions more easily define people than people within the religion. I am not saying they are right, just that they have an easier time of it. Compare an adherent of Judaism defining a Christian to a Christian defining an adherent of Judaism. An adherent of Judaism would state that messianic Jews are not part of Judaism and would also exclude people that weren’t converted “properly”. Then there are additional problems if the Jewish parentage were too remote. Determining if someone is a part of Judaism can be a messy business. However, A Christian would simply state that an adherent of Judaism is someone with Jewish parentage, no matter their beliefs. Now look to the comparative. Christians have all sorts of dilemmas trying to decide who is a Christian. You can see many posts on this board that the definitions aren’t clear. One denomination excludes another. Questions of proper worship and ideals split the denominations and cause multiple groups to label the others as not real Christians. However, an adherent of Judaism would simply state that a Christian is anyone that thinks jesus is the Messiah. Thus, my observation that people outside the religion more easily define the adherents than those within the religion. | ||
| overseas (overseas) Junior Member Username: overseas Post Number: 31 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
Solopilot and cccccarah, put me personally on the cults test. I attend a baptist church while the label 'baptist' means nothing to me. I argue with Baptist preachers when they preach psychologically and not from the Bible. i don't care if the whole Baptist denomination goes away in one minute, my salvation does not depend on them. I read Bible for myself and in the main things I agree with baptists, that is why I gather with them. If someone shoots all baptists tonight and leaves me alive, I have no problem to start alone a church called Bible Church/ Christian Church or other decent name and I would only gather with people that value the bible. So i do not care what wrong baptists were in the past, I only care my church sticks to the Bible, otherwise I fight them as cultists. Now, you two take one minute and do not hide behind the Mormon organisation and tell me how God saved you and if you met God. I don't have problems to decide who is Christian because God gave me His Spirit and Word. You obviously are not Christians if you feel obliged to defend Mormon organisation. I tell you what: I accept Mormon doctrines and practice them, and I tell everybody that Moroni Angel is true and I promote all your teachings, but I do not come together with you and I start my own Mormon church according to all your rules and books. Does that make me a Mormon according to your standards ? No of course, because only people that obey your Mormon Board is a true Mormon and that proves you a cult that needs to control people not to convey a message. But if you accept Bible and repent before Jesus, receive His forgiveness of sins and obey His commands by love not by fear, you are my brother even if there is an ocean between us and I do not care if you drink cofee or not. And if you are my brother and email me that you want to start a church for yourself I would tell you: 'go ahead, if your motivation is to serve the Lord ". That is what makes me a Christian, I do not hide behind Protestant Church. What did people along centuries until the Book of Mormon appeared, were they lost ? | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Junior Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 27 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
The problem is that each of those other Baptist churches think that they ARE sticking to the Bible, and that you are the heretic. Yes, I knew God for the first half of eternity. We lived there with him. Oh, you mean have I met God since being born? Yes, just as much as you have, no, not as much as Adam did. As far as I am concerned, anyone who has a testimony of the Restored Gospel is a Mormon, at least to some extent. While the majority of Mormons are members of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, some are members of the Community of Christ (formerly the Reorganized LDS) and other are members of various other offshoot groups. The problem is that these other groups don't have the keys of priesthood authority. The church which you would start likewise would not have these keys, so every time you acted "in the name of Christ" you would be writing a check on someone else's account, so to speak. Yes, they WERE lost. That is the whole basis of Protestantism in the first place, that the Roman Catholic Church, which originally inherited the mantle of Christian authority, lost that authority over the years. | ||
| overseas (overseas) Junior Member Username: overseas Post Number: 37 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
Baptist churches do not see me or each other as heretics, that is your lie. A lot of churches do not care if their people know by hard that specific official church creed, but are interested on creating an enviroment for people to study Bible and worship. Your first half of eternity spent with God is illogical to me ! No you did not met same God with me; my God did not make me Mormon nor Baptist. And you did not answer how were you personally saved (because you were not) ! Now you come to the KEYS of Mormonism. Any one else on the board noticed these magical KEYS that are ONLY in the possession of MORMONS so they have a MONOPOLY of TRUE FAITH ? If I go with the Bible in the jungle and people accept it there, they will all show the 'fruit of the Holy Spirit' that is: love, patience, kindness ... And that will be enough to recognise them as Christians. Now let's talk about Protestants. Protestantism did not claim that Catholic Church lost the authority, Protestants claimed that Ctholic Church never had exclusive authority and taught that authority comes to persons (not organisations) straight from believing the Word in the Bible. So Protestants did not try to substitute the Catholics (Mormons want that), but taught universal priesthood of all believers. And Protestants did not say there were no other saved in centuries, because history shows small groups (Valdens, Albigens - sorry I do not know the right spelling) that always disagreed with Catholic Church. And what do you know about catholics that read the Bible for themselves in history and found salvation by faith, but were not so courageous to start a reform ? You Mormons deny the power of the Holy Spirit to use God's Word for saving people. I know of cases where people found pages of the Bible by accident on the ground in isolated areas, and read them and were saved. And when they met institutional true christians their beliefs were very similar, because they had same God Spirit. I tell you where your place is, like all cults. You cannot have a logical and common sense discussion because your thinking is suddenly interrupted by Mormon concepts that do not arise from the context (everybody noted the KEYS/ EXCLUSIVITY that you plugged in from nowhere...). Listen here: you higher masters from Mormonism will teach you soon not to spend time with hard people like me (with God help), because you may lose your faith in Mormonism trying to be logical/ rational and Biblical. They will teach you to go for the easy prey, Protestants by name or Bible ignorants. We God people are here to serve as God testimony. We do not defend denominations. We do not defend churches. We do not defend God, but He is defending us. We proclaim Bible and only the Bible. You will find us in many places with the same doctrines and spirit even if we don't know each other. So when you meet someone that opposes you with God truth, please give him my greetings. | ||
| solopilot (solopilot) Member Username: solopilot Post Number: 57 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 216.190.204.218 |
Overseas: By your own admission, you are new to Christianity. How can you assume that you know everything there is to know about every one of the over-1000 separate Protestant sects? The fact is that some Baptists consider some other BAPTISTS to be cultists. Look up what people have had to say about Fred Phelps, leader of the Westboro Baptist Church, based in Kansas. For that matter, look at what Fred has to say about other Baptists. Your belief that your soul sprang out of nothing at the time of your birth is illogical to me. Why would God do it that way? Again, you are making global statements about Protestantism which are not true and show your limited (in a sense) knowledge of the various Protestant doctrines. SOME Protestants agree with your assertion that the Catholic church didn't have exclusive authority, but this is a belief which is relatively recent. Most of the founders of Protestantism believed that the authority was in the hands of the Catholics, but that they had lost it because of letting the doctrines of men into Catholicism. For instance, all Biblical evidence is that Christ was born in the springtime, not the dead of winter, yet we celebrate his birth on the Winter Solstice, a pagan holiday. But please, show me one place in the New Testament which says that the authority is given to anyone who asks for it, that there is no chain of authority. Oh, so it's disagreement with the Catholic Church which saves you? ;) What about those who lived and died before Christ was born? As far as logical and common-sense discussions, I'm here just for that, like Daniel in the lion's den. I have come here to a place which exists solely to let Protestants (well, SOME Protestants, anyway) condemn those who don't worship the exact same way that they do. If you look, a lot of the "cults" hammered on in here are Protestant, or followers of Protestant preachers. I've been a Mormon since 1975. When will my "masters" tell me to stop spending time with people like you? Go to the FARMS website (www.farmsresearch.com) and you will see that, not only is logic and rational discussion to be found there, but it is in fact sponsored by Brigham Young University, and a wide range of topics are discussed. Since the Church own BYU, that's as close to the Church sponsoring logical and rational discussion of such topics as you will find in any religion. Which "Bible and only Bible" do you proclaim? There are several versions in English alone. If you prefer the King James Version, WHICH version of it do you use? If you like the NIV, which disagrees with the KJV in several places, what about those of us who use the KJV? Or perhaps the people using the NIV are the heretics. I meet EVERYONE who opposes me with God's truth. After all, you aren't opposing me, you are opposing HIM. | ||
| godchild (godchild) New member Username: godchild Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.85 |
I am not here to respond to any message writers. I would like to tell you my story, though much of it cannot be told in one sitting. First, I want to pray. Dear Heavenly Father, please let me write through your spirit in me. Thank you for this opportunity to share what I know about Chrisianity and Mormonism. I only speak from my own experience, dear Lord, and I pray that eyes may be opened, and please touch the hearts of those truly seeking answers. In Jesus name I pray, Amen. I was fourteen years old when I joined the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. My Mother was searching for a "Church". My stepfather, my mother, my brother, and three sisters took the lessons from elders (young missionaries) and joined later that year. Although I spent years believing in the church and arguing (with the almost word for word verbage I see here from Mormon apologists) for what I thought was true. My parents were and are staunch members to this day and it is one heartbreak I have to continually give to the Lord, because only he can open eyes. I never felt a personal relationship to Jesus. I was never taught to have one. I did not understand that we are saved by Grace, not by works,(lest any man should boast). I raised three children in the church. Thoughout those years, I had read the complete Book of Mormon, and parts of the Pearl of Great Price, and the Word of Wisdom. I did not practice much of it because the Holy Spirit was not in me. If I had questions, I was always told "you are not worthy enough yet". When I began studying on my own including books about other religions, I began to understand. I have always loved reading the Bible, I believe because of my Grandmother who took us as small children to her church (Baptist). There were several occurrances that began to take the 'veil' from my eyes. Praise God that he is so patient. My sister-in-law invited me to her house to listen to a tape with some of her friends (Catholic). In that tape we were led mentally to imagine Christ Jesus putting his arms around us. I was shocked with the very idea. But I felt his love fully for the first time that day. I stayed in the church; after all, my family and most of my acquaintances were Mormon. It is very difficult to step away from everything you had been taught. Those beliefs start crumbling. I went to a sunday school class that taught that God literally came to earth and had intercourse with Mary, concieving Jesus. I got the 'you're not worthy enough to understand' when I asked my stepfather, who at that time was the Bishop of our Ward. The list goes on and on. I wasn't supposed to be hearing these things. When I heard that my stepfather was going to be a God, and when he died he will have his own 'earth' and many goddesses to fill that earth with his children as Adam did, I laughed. I said to my mother, 'Mom, how can you believe that. You are so jealous of stepfather how will you stand all those other women being with him'. Her answer was 'I won't mind because I will be the number one goddess'. Still, I stayed in the Church. When my youngest child was in high school, she began searching out other churches. She brought home a book that completely opened her eyes, my eyes, and my other children's eyes. I was not afraid anymore. Not afraid that I could not be perfect here so that I could reach the number one part of heaven, the Celestial Kingdom and be with my Mom and stepdad, who after all, went to church multiweekly, took positions in the church, paid tithe, paid the missionary fund and any other fund they were asked to. The went to the Temple and were sealed and now wear daily under their clothing a flimsy white undergarment with strange markings on it, that are secret. They got sealed for eternity and have been sealed for many of their dead relatives. They have done all their geneology and more and always have two years of food stored for the time when Christ will come again. They have done all of that but their faith is not in God, but in the church. They do not read any books or watch any movies that are not approved by the church. My mother does not understand and refuses to understand that I will be with God for eternity. When I asked to be excommunicated, which took my publishing my decision in our local newspaper in order for them to take me seriously, my father-in-law at that time told my husband that 'you have given over your soul to Satan. I have no desire to argue with anyone, only to share what I am learning in my Holy Bible. I am 57 years old and will not join any denomination that does not teach about God's grace to us if we only ask. God bless you all. Please pray that I might do HIS will for his glory, Not mine. | ||
| overseas (overseas) Intermediate Member Username: overseas Post Number: 225 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.240.33 |
Godchild, I heard your testimony. God bless you. I said above: "We God people are here to serve as God testimony. We do not defend denominations. We do not defend churches. We do not defend God, but He is defending us. We proclaim Bible and only the Bible. You will find us in many places with the same doctrines and spirit even if we don't know each other. So when you meet someone that opposes you with God truth, please give him my greetings." So I welcome you. | ||
| godchild (godchild) New member Username: godchild Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.49.141 |
Overseas, I have been doing a lot of interacting with sp since I found this sight. After a day of praying about it, I don't think I should speak to any one person any though. I encourage you to continue your walk with the Lord. And thank you for your kind thoughts. If you are in the service, I say a special prayer that God will let his angels surround you all. Put on the whole armour of God, 1 Samuel 17:6, Judges 20:16, 1 Samuel 17:5, Exodus 28:32, Exodus 29:33. Til we meet. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Junior Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 29 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
ccccarah, I have a question for you, If you had the choich to teach from only one book which one would you use, the Bible or the book of mormon ? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 517 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.62.52 |
marilyn_m, I know you did not ask me the question but you need to understand the mormons believe not only the book of mormon is scripture, but also the Doctine and Covenants, and the Pearl of Great Price, which were written by men who claim to be prophets. The Book of Mormon teaches one god, but mormons accept the changes in doctrine taught by their prophets in the late 1800's and to this present day. Their doctrines are constantly changing so it is a difficult (if not impossible) question for them to answer. I hope one of them would try. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 205 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: Again conveniently forgetting the many posts on other threads - do you really think you can get away with this? | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 533 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.53.1 |
You see, Joesdad cannot answer the question. He would rather spend his time making really unproductive and ignorant remarks to me. If he is on a mission to eradicate all the godchild's of the world, he is wasting valuable time when he could be studying the Holy Bible. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 210 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
GC: HeHeHe you ARE Soooooo funny, even more so beacuse you take yourself seriously!! I suppose the Bible cos it has better stories. | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 717 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.61.74 |
Written by a man who cheats his employer of time he is paying for. A man who admits to being excommunicated at least once but is too ashamed to say why. By a man who calls himself god, even if in jest. A man who responds to information posted by others by throwing personal accusations which are untrue. A man who on one hand has high praise for paying his own way and on the other saying the church paid for him. I would love to hear how a mormon missionary pays his or her tithes. Or doesn't, even though they believe so much in financial sacrifice for every other poor member. There is simply no firm foundation for mormon beliefs. They have an excuse (which they call an answer) for everything. | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 257 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
I can't believe a woman of your age can be so immature - grow up! | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 720 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.72 |
 When I saw the cleansing fountain Open wide for all my sin, I obeyed the Spirit's wooing, When He said, Wilt thou be clean? I will praise Him! Praise the Lamb for sinners slain;- Give Him glory, all ye people, for his blood can wash away each stain. Tho' the way seems straight and narrow, All I claimed was swept away; My ambitions, plans, and wishes, At my feet in ashes lay. Then God's fire upon the altar Of my heart was set aflame; I shall never cease to praise Him, Glory, glory to His name! Blessed be the name of Jesus! I'm so glad He took me in; He's forgiven my transgressions, He has cleansed my heart from sin. Glory, glory to the Father! Glory, glory to the Son! Glory, glory to the Spirit! Glory to the Three in One! From the New Church Hymnal | ||
| godchild (godchild) Advanced Member Username: godchild Post Number: 721 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.28.51.72 |
 Christians sing praises to our Lord God. Compare to a mormon hymn: Praise to the man who communed with Jehovah! Jesus anointed that Prophet and Seer, Blessed to open the last dispensation, Kings shall extol him, and nations revere. Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven! Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.--- Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot comquer the hero again. Praise to his memory, he died as a martyr, Honored and blest be his ever great name! Long shall his blood, which was shed by assassins, Plead unto heav'n while the earth lauds his fame. Great is his glory and endless his priesthood. Ever and ever the keys he will hold. Faithful and true, he will enter his kingdom, Crowned in the midst of the prophets of old. Sacrifice brings forthe the blessings of heaven; Earth must atone for the blood of that man. Wake up the world for the conflict of justice. Millions shall know Brother Joseph" again. Hail to the Prophet, ascended to heaven! Traitors and tyrants now fight him in vain.--- Mingling with Gods, he can plan for his brethren; Death cannot conquer the hero again. Taken from Gospel Principles Mormon Study Guide and hymns | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Junior Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 40 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.69.138.143 |
The mormon church always taught me that joseph had the keys to the GATES OF HEAVEN,(Celestial kingdom)So i see why they sing praise to him, because , that gate needs to be opened. Christ alone is not good enough? |
