| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
I am a part of this denomination and I agree with some of the beliefs, but I wonder about others? | ||
| Anonymous |
I would like someone to please respond to my question. How do you know your in a cult? | ||
| Anonymous |
I have learned that it is like this: 1) God 2) Family 3) then!!! Church If church is put before family it is wrong and not right! | ||
| danalynne |
I believe that a person doesn't really "know" that they are in a cult, unless they pull out of a cult. While you are in a cult, you seemed to be deprived of alot of things, and the leader or pastor of this cult, tends to thrive on power. People will go out of their way to protect this leader, or cover up his wrongdoings in order to save him face. I was in a cult for several years and have now come to the conclusion that it was a cult. I have never really knew about it until now. I was brainwashed from a teenager and was always afraid to speak my opinion. | ||
| Anonymous |
Well, I certainly dont think the united pentecostal church is a cult because you are free to come or go as you please. If you want to belong though, really belong, you will dress properly, keep your house and children properly, tithe properly according to thier message, associate within their church mostly, attend lots of the meetings every week, regard the pastor and wife highly and not too many questions. You will be told that others are going to hell because the do not wear their hair and dress a cerain way or beieve a cerain way. But, if you are there, its not dangerous to your physical being, they dont beat nor curse you, they just would not have anything to do with you if you were not like them. Actually, its a big family, believing in God, loving their way. A friendly bunch of people, just ignorant of the Word. I would not be frightened for my relative or friend to be in this church, just know its immature and not Gods standards, but peoples. A former member who did not abide by dress codes but was accepted anyway, thats me....! | ||
| Bro Johnny |
I believe that People are afaird us or Persecute us becouse we are Differant or they don,t even try to understand us! becouse we Hold Strong to our Apostolic Doctrine! but i don,t think its right to call us ignorant if you every truly sat down with a Oneness Pentecostal Brother or Sister you will find that we truly Study our Bible very strongely and take it at face vaule and to Heart! we are not bad people our a cult in any way! but yes its true that some of us can come across pretty strong becouse we have but up a wall becouse of Persecution and missunderstanding of us! its our nature to atack something we don,t understand thats just the way were made. all of us at one point or another, i know i have and still do i guess! but we stay to ourselfs and don,t force ourselfs on anyone. we don,t take to the streets in groups and ring peoples door bells like the LDS or JWitnesses! we try to dress according to Bible Holiness Standards our Sisters Hold strong to and Respect Pauls Teachings on Wemem Holiness Standards!they are not deprived of the Worldely things they choose to let go of for the Lord! but becouse they choose to let go of these worldely things and truly try their best to Separate themselfs from the world! they are called plan janes or Freaks or many other messed up names.if you real think about it its a Beutifull thing to truly see a Sister in Christ that loves Him so much she denys herself to please the Lord! not becouse she has to but becouse she truly wants to! but no body looks at it like that anymore! the truth is that wemen never had no problem wearing long skirts or dresses and covering themselfs Respectfullely and having Beutifull long hair for 1900 years! but only after that did they start wearing pants and cuting their hair and trying to prove that they can do anything a man can do! it,s a real shame! its almost impossiable to find a virgin to marrie today!!! lets be real here were all Adults right! its very hard keeping up with our 12 year old Daughters now a days! it,s hard to even find a women that knows truly how to cook! they make their husbands take them out most of the time or throw something frozen in the oven and open up a can of something elese and call it dinner! What in the world is that??? yes were old fashion plain looking and we love our Lord and Hold SteadFast to the old Church ways! Well i guess that dose make us Freaks in todays modern world! but we love our way of life and stay to ourselfs but the Persecution and name calling will never stop the Bible tells us it will get much worse!but with the Lords help we,ll get through it as they did in the past but it,s a real Shame! please excuse the spelling im Italian and diden,t go to school much but very much Blessed in the Lord! yours in Christ Bro Johnny | ||
| Anonymous |
Any group that takes away your power to choose is a cult. | ||
| Anonymous |
I don't believe pentecostals take away your power to choose. You are free to leave the church anytime you want. But I do have one thing to say about something Johnny said. He said "It's almost impossible to find a virgin to marry now a days". Well why is that? It's not the girls/women that take away their own virginity. It's the men. Not only should the church teach young women what is appropiate in the sight of God but also the young men. It seems if a man sleeps around then he's just being a man. But if a woman does the same thing she's trashy. The women aren't doing this alone you know. Talk to the boys and young men you have in your church also, not just the girls. That old double standard again. And don't say that's just the way it is. Men who sleep around are no less wrong in God's eyes than women who do the same thing. | ||
| Anonymous |
Uncovering Churches that Abuse People The following questions come from the book: Recovering from Churches That Abuse, by Ronald Enroth, Grand Rapids, Michigan, Zondervon, 1994. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 1. Does a member’s personality generally become stronger, happier, more confident as a result of contact with the group? In an abusive church, the use of guilt, fear, and intimidation to control members is likely to produce members who have a low self-image, who feel beaten down by legalism, who have been taught that asserting oneself is not spiritual. One of the first disturbing characteristics to be reported by relatives and friends of members of these churches is a noticeable change in personality, usually in a negative direction. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 2. Do members of the group seek to strengthen their family commitments? Nearly all unhealthy churches attempt to minimize the commitments of their members to their family, especially parents. Young people may be told that they now have a new “spiritual” family, complete with leaders who will “re-parent” them. Church loyalty is seen as paramount, and family commitments are discouraged or viewed as impediments to spiritual advancement. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 3. Does the group encourage independent thinking and the development of discernment skills? Control-oriented leaders attempt to dictate what members think, although the process is so spiritualized that members usually do not realize what is going on. A pastor or leader is viewed as God’s mouth piece, and in varying degrees a member’s decision making and ability to think for oneself are swallowed up by the group. Pressure to conform and low tolerence for questioning make it difficult to be truly discerning. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 4. Does the group allow for individual differences of belief and behaviour, particularly on issues of secondary importance? A legalistic emphasis on keeping rules and a focus on the need to stay within prescribed boundaries is always present in unhealthy spiritual envionments. Lifestyle rigidity in such groups increase a member’s guilt feelings and contributes to spiritual bondage. This rigidity is often coupled with an emphasis on beliefs that would not receive great attention in mainstream evangelicalism. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 5. Does the group encourage high moral standards both among members and between members and non members? In intense, legalistic churches and religious organizations, the official, public proclamations usually place special value on high moral standards. In some instances, there is a double standard between those in leadershp and those in the rank and file membership. Abusive churches tend to have incidents of sexual misconduct more often than most conventonal churches; leaders sometimes exhibit an obsessive interest in matters relating to sex. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 6. Does the group’s leadership invite dialogue, advice and evaluation from outside its immediate circle? Authoritarian pastors are usually threatened by any outside expression of diverse opinions, whether from inside or outside the group. When outside speakers are given access to the pulpit, they are carefully selected to minimize any threat to the leadership’s agenda. Coercive pastors are fiercely independent and do not function well in a structure of accountability. For the sake of public relations, they may boast that they are accountable to a board of some sort, when in actuality the board is composed of “yes-men” who do not question the leader’s authority. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 7. Does the group allow for development in theological beliefs? Another hallmark of an authoritarian church is its intolerance of any belief system different from its own. They tend to measure and evaluate all forms of Christian spirituality according to their own carefully prescribed system, adopting an “us-versus-them” mentality. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 8. Are group members encouraged to ask hard questions of any kind? A cardinal rule of abusive systems is “Don’t ask questions, don’t make waves.” A healthy pastor welcomes even tough questions. In an unhealthy church disagreement with the pastor is considered to be disloyalty and is tantamount to disobeying God. People who repeatedly question the system are labelled “rebellious”, “unteachable”, or “disharmonious to the body of Christ”. Persistent questioners may face sanctions of some kind such as being publicly ridiculed, shunned, shamed, humiliated, or disfellowshiped. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 9. Do members appreciate truth wherever it is found even if it is outside their group? Whether they admit it or not, abusive churches tend to view themselves as spiritually superior to other Christian groups. This religious elitism allows little room for outside influences. There can be no compromise with external sources, who, the leadership will say, really don’t understand what is going on in the ministry anyway. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 10. Is the group honest in dealing with nonmembers, especially as it tries to win them to the group? Sometimes abusive groups illustrate a “split-level religion”. There is one level for public presentation and another for the inner circle of membership. The former is a carefully crafted public relations effort, the latter a reality level experienced only by the “true believers”. Recruitment tactics are usually intense, even if they are not actually deceptive or fraudulent, they can be manipulative or exploitive. Sometimes high pressure religious groups are evasive about there true identity: “We really don’t have a name, we’re just Christians.” A healthy Christian group should have no qualms about revealing who it is and what its intentions are. ------------------------------------------------------------------------ 11. Does the group foster relationships and connections with the larger society that are more than self-serving? First impressions are not always correct. Sustained contact with an unhealthy church, however, will usually reveal a pattern that is consistent with the characteristics we have identified. Members will be requested to serve, to become involved, to sign up for a variety of activities that, upon closer inspection, appear to maintain the system and serve the needs of the leadership. Abusive churches thrive on tactics that promote dependency. Emphasizing obedience and submission to leaders, these churches often require a level of service that is overwhelming to members, resulting in emotional turmoil and spiritual breakdowns. | ||
| Anonymous |
ELEVEN MARKS OF PERVERTED AUTHORITY (1) The claim of direct authority from God, rather than testing things by the Word. Many today have set "personal" revelation and experience above the final authority of God's Word. When this occurs there is no longer any basis for asertaining the will of God, as one would not be able to discern truth from error because the standard is "personal" rather than the Word of God. (2) The command is to "submit to me," rather than "I will serve you." (3) The method of leadership is to "order" people around, rather than to appeal for them to do the right things. (4) There is a dominating, "pushy" drive instead of a dependence on God to direct. (5) There is a sense of control, rather than a sense of support. (6) A gift is exploited so that others are made to feel dependent on it. (7) There is an inflexibility - "don't question me" - "don't touch the Lord's anointed." (8) There is unapproachability and intimidation - the "aura" around the leader keeps the followers in "awe." (9) There emerges an organization built around a man and his peculiar emphases instead of around Christ and His Word. (10) There will be cyclical challenges to the authority figure (which are immediately and forcefully purged). (11) There is more concern for maintaining the authoritarian structure than there is for caring about the people in it Manipulative Groups Might... cause you to believe that God will give you direct revelations for every detail of your life Issue lots of "black & white" statements Narrow your thinking with blanket statements Give simplistic answers to complex questions cause confusion by teaching that human reasoning is always contrary to God's will cause you to fear missing God's will influence you to make you expect God to almost always reveal why things happen to you cause you to think that God is telling you what to do, when it is only your imagination cause you to lose your assurance that you can hear God as well as your leadership does trick you into dying completely to your will so the group can unduly influence you trick you into believing that all your attitudes, ways and thinking are not of God cause you to believe that there is only one right way, as if God is a dictator. IMITATE, TRUST, BE LOYAL AND HAVE FAITH IN LEADERS ... ...OR GOD ...OR BOTH? What does the Bible say? The more extreme controlling groups will stress one or more of these ideas to gain more control... •Not only should you trust God but you need to trust your leaders also! •Not only should you be loyal to God but you need to be loyal to your leaders! •Not only should you have faith in God but you need to have faith in your leaders! •Not only should you imitate Jesus but you need to imitate your leaders (without also teaching that it is the leaders' Christian virtues which are worthy of imitation.) •twist verses like "Touch not my anointed" implying that we can't be critical of leaders without being critical of God •at times claim that refusal to obey leaders' opinions in personal matters is sin •classify almost all criticism of leaders as slanderous or malicious •selectively focus on words or phrases and change their meanings; especially the words: obey, submit, dying to self, thus making it appear that a complete compliance to group leaders is what the Bible teaches •not teach that the authority is in the message and not the messenger •permit novices to oversee souls or promote novices to positions of leadership •teach you that you must only go to leaders in private when you are pointing out error •not tell you that in the Bible trust or loyalty is never used in reference to church leaders •teach you that unity means that you need to change your opinions to match the groups' instead of constancy of purpose •control negative feedback of leaders •squelch legitimate criticism of leadership •teach people to obey even when they don't feel right about it (thus encouraging people to die to their sense of right and wrong) •teach that doubts and criticism of leadership equals sin •teach that all criticism of leadership is probably slanderous, divisive or factious | ||
| Anonymous |
you say,Any group that takes away your power to choose is a cult! you can choose to live by the Word of God or Choose to live by modren day Apostate so called Church teachings! we Pentecostals Choose to live by the Word of God and Stand Firmely on it,and that and nothing elese makes you back up 10,000 feet and call us a cult, and christendom has become a joke and a true highway stright into Hell, we live for Christ and dress to please the Lord Not man,and you people can,t stand that becouse we don,t bow down to your worldely man made New Age NWO System,it takes much more Power and Respect to truly live for God than it dose to live and fit in your worldely ways, and we show it in everything we do, we stand apart from this world, but you hold on to it for life like your going to take it with you or something, we will all see if it was all worth it when we get up their,Choose this day whom you will sirve!!! we are a Army geting stronger every day, moving in and around you, you can,t stop us, no matter how hard you try you will fail!!! its a Shame your so blinded!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
A shame you are so hostile. I didnt call any denomination by name. I happen to be pentecostal. | ||
| Bro Johnny |
Well my Brother if your Pentecostal you know good and well just what we stand for, and we don,t force anyone to come to our Churches or dress or act like us we do it by our own chooce, its not mind control its Holy Spirt Control we Recept and live for,and they put us down like dogs and say we are not even Christians but a Cult, its time we take a true Stand for Christ my Brother no matter what the cost, God Bless you my Brother, Bro Johnny | ||
| Bro Johnny |
i Diden,t think id get a ancer but i want you all to know something i stand for Truth, and no one wants to hear the truth becouse they can,t handle it in anyway shape or form and they have no back bone!so just have all the fun yous can now and put us down as much and as hard as you can while you can, but OH MY GOD i feel so sorry for you on judgement day, you will remember my words than believe me | ||
| Anonymous |
You stand for what you believe to be truth just like the rest of us. None of us has "all"the truth. When we think we do have "all" the truth we are deceived. Surly we can all agree to disagree and just love souls into the kingdom but it must start with loving each other. | ||
| Meredith |
If living closely to the "word of (your) God" means I have to be so far out that I don't even learn to correctly spell such key words as 'Christian' or 'Answer' (you spelled them as 'ancer' and 'christen'<~which is a female's name)I want to have no part of this religion. I think that both of you have a severe lack of articulation and grammar skills, which leads one to believe you are of lower intelligence. Which in turn would allow you to be brainwashed by your ignorant pastors and ministers of this thing you call a religion. Maybe if you spent more time educating yourself about real issues and being involved in today's society your closeness to God would be helpful to others. Isn't that the whole idea, anyway? To spread the word of the Lord? How do you spread the word if people are shunned for not believing in the same way, if at all, as you? Aren't you defeating your own purpose as a Christian? I think religions must keep up with today's changing society and all the issues that some with it, including the modern woman, in order to keep up with the human race. We are a highly intelligent people, at least most of us, out here in the real world, and by GOD we can spell. You people sicken me talking all this trash about God this and God that- but God wouldn't force a woman to cook, he'd bless her with the talent and desire to cook. If she doesn't acquire that from God, she certainly won't acquire it from a mortal man such as yourselves. Also, could it be so hard to find a virgin to marry these days because there are so many lost and depressed people out there? SO many teens aren't getting the support from their families and CHURCHES that they need, instead being alienated for their lackings. Instead, to create a more positive upcoming youth and fellowship, churches need to UNITE and heal our people, instead of continuing this path of destruction. The whole message you are sending is negative. So don't feed me that bullshit (yes, I said it, BULLSHIT) about virgins and cooking, because thats sick, and ignorant of the whole principle of God. I hope you all can read this, because I'm sure it is all properly spelled. Educate yourselves before posting such ignorance. -17 year old anonymous reader | ||
| Anonymous |
To the above post. You are only showing a narrow minded, judgemental attitude. An intelligent person as you seem to think you are, would have the good sense not to make fun of someone's spelling. I don't agree with everything that is said either, but to make fun of someone's spelling shows what a mean spirited and petty person you are. Seventeen and you think you have all the answers. Are you so arrogant to think you can't make mistakes? You seem to be a self righteous, know it all brat. Did your parents ever teach you how to speak to people. Why don't you educate yourself. | ||
| Meredith |
I made fun of NO ONE SIR. I simply stated that a lack of spelling skills shows a lack of intelligence. I'm simply not narrow minded, or I wouldn't be studying these religious sects, and cults. I am actually very open minded, and I don't see what is wrong with my letter, except I was harsh and maybe a little sassy, but strong opinions lead to strong statements, and thats what I was going for. Calling me a brat makes you look no better. But I will apologize for being harsh in my posting. I never claimed to be perfect nor am I self righteous, I'm actually very interested in this sort of thing. But please, don't correct me for my harshness and then be so harsh with me. Ouch. At seventeen I am actually very proud of how smart I am, and articulate, and you will not scare me off by calling me a brat. I don't appreciate it, sir, or ma'am, and I wonder if your parents taught you to be polite. Just because I'm young doesn't mean my opinions aren't valid and based on facts. I study quite a bit, actually, and I feel confident in the amount of factual knowledge I base each and every one of my opinions on. THANK YOU! **Name calling is no better than my harsh opinions on a cultish religion. | ||
| Anonymous |
You are very, very prejudiced. The lack of spelling does not mean limited intelligence as good spelling does not mean a holy avatar. Someone may seem to have lack of spelling in the English language for the only reason of being a non-English speaker. Does this fact makes him less intelligent? I don't think so. Instead, YOU seem to have problems with discernment and judgement. Perhaps you should stop trying to teach others how to resolve their own problems of religion and conscience, and use that time to see yourself in the mirror of your own reality. Similarly, there are the ones that come to this list needy to compensate for their lack of self-realization. | ||
| Anonymous |
Meridith you really should tone down your posts. You come across as very self righteous. No one is going to appreciate you speaking to them in that tone. You said " I am very proud of how smart I am, and articulate..." You sound like person with a inflated opinion of yourself. You should know you are not the only person here that can spell, speak and read. So don't flatter yourself. It's not really uncommon for someone to be able to articulate. And it's very unbecoming to brag on yourself. It sounds so much better when someone else is doing it. And you do sound like a brat. As you said "strong opinion leads to strong statements, that's what I was going for." Well that's what you got. | ||
| Anonymous |
I mean Meredith. | ||
| Anonymous |
Dear Miss Meredith being unable to spell correctly does not mean "lack of intelligence". You have showed you are not as smart as you think you when when you made that statement. You have been bouncing your tail on forum after forum and stating your opinion. Although you have a right to do so, you should stop and THINK before posting. It might just make you sound less ignorant. | ||
| Anonymous |
Hey Meredith You are more religious than anyone I have ever met. the only difference is the God you serve. The God you serve is you and you do it quite religiously. You have set up your own narrow set of rules and you live by them. How sad. | ||
| Anonymous |
Meredith Your post was more than harsh. You were downright disrespectful to people that you know absolutely nothing about. I have read posts before from one of the people you were chastising because of their spelling. This person is a good God fearing man that you have insulted. You should know that being smart is more than just books and school. Being smart also means knowing how to speak to your fellow man and treating them with the same respect you would like shown to you. You will go much farther in life if you know how to speak. And I don't just mean how to articulate.The people posting here are not dogs to be talked down to. And don't label someone as having "lower intelligence". Not all people have the same opportunities and advantages. And for some, English is a second language. It does not make them any less intelligent. Just try and be nicer when you post. | ||
| Glenn |
Signs you are in a cult: - You do not realize you're in a cult. - You follow other people without thinking. - You are relying on someone else to make decisions for you. - In short, you are an extremely weak person who is afraid to take your own life into your hands. Solution: Grow up, dust off your brain ... | ||
| Anonimo |
Hi My personal experience with UPC members are really bitter. I'm from an ex-communist country in East Europe. In the late 80-s we - a group of young people/18-28/ made a really blessed small church. Our relationships were like a family, we cared for each other, we prayed and the church started to grow. We had some problems but always successfully solved them with prayer and sharing. It was a church on a Pentecostal background. An elderly American couple joined our church - Frank Munsey and his wife. They said they were Pentecost. They gradually started to take possession of young 23 years old our pastor,promising him visits to America, tipping him with money.They separated him from us, we couldn't see him for weeks. From morning till midnight Frank was with him. The pastor became suspicious,nervous - always blaming us- the main body. All the ministers were litteraly kicked out and a lies were spread about their private lives. I was a Bible teacher and because I had many friends among the people I was accused in any sins in the world. My husband and I were forced to leave. 2/3 of the church members left it too. We initiated a new one but Frank corrupted the Covernment official that was responsible for the permisssions and we just lost the case. These things happened in the early 90-s. Then I witnessed with my eyes the controlling methods witnessed here. It was so immoral, so unfair that many people never visited a church since than. And yes, I would say that its a cult. | ||
| Anonymous |
I agree with Meredith. | ||
| Grace |
I Samuel 16:7 "...for the LORD seeth not as man seeth; for man looketh on the outward appearance, but the LORD looketh on the heart." I was recently asked by a friend, who is a memeber of a UPC church, if I thought I was going to heaven. When I responded with a "yes" I was quickly told that I had "better go home and put on my skirt". For a religion that claims to let their members choose what type of clothing to wear and to come and go as they please, doesn't this statment sound a bit judgemental? | ||
| Anonymous |
Clothes won't get anyone into heaven. Some people haven't figured that out yet. | ||
| Yaakov |
]I agree with Meredith. On what point? That a person’s spelling ability in the English language is directly proportional to a person’s intelligence? Or that only people with lower intelligence could be brainwashed by their religion? Perhaps you agree with her contention that a man is not able to teach a woman how to cook? | ||
| Yaakov |
]Clothes won't get anyone into heaven. Some people haven't figured that out yet. Ah, I get it. That means a LACK of clothes will get a person into heaven. So, only the nudists are going to Heaven, right? | ||
| Anonymous |
Yaakov your lame attempt at humor leaves much to be desired. You're really not as smart as you think you are. You are only making yourself obnoxious. You cut down everything anyone says. You said on another thread, you are here to learn and teach. I don't think there is anything you could teach, so why not just listen and learn for a change. | ||
| Anonymous |
P.S. You are either very immature or just plain rude. | ||
| aexapo |
I don't believe that the UPC is a cult as such, but most individual "Apostolic" churches each have the "kindlin'wood" to become one: 1) Autocratic preachers with dictatorial powers, 2) pressure to give as much money as possible -- with most of it going in the "pastor's" wallet, 3) no thinking required -- just do what the church and the pastor tell you to do, etc. http://ex-pentecostals.com | ||
| Yaakov |
You guys are right. My "joke" was in very poor taste. I apologize for it. | ||
| Anonymous |
Apology accepted Yaakov. | ||
| melissa |
I am a former member of the UPC. For me leaving the UPC was like leaving a cult. I was afraid for a long time that something bad was going to happen, that I was going to hell. I could not be honest when I was in the UPC church out of fear. I feared judgement and a lack of love if the church members ever found out the things that went on in my head. It was years before I could read the Bible without feeling full of shame. I do not know if the UPC is a cult, or my reaction to it caused it to be a cultish experience for me. I am in the process of writing my history in the UPC, and hope that this will help me to shed some light on this. This one thing I would say to UPC members. Be kind to those who enter your fellowship who suffer from mental illness, or have been abused. I was fractured when I arrived in the UPC, and I was there because I was looking for a way to get help from God. Today I know that God had a different path for me in the process of healing, but I didn't know that then. Leaving the church only served to fracture me more because I saw people who I thought loved me turn against me. I will share more later but that's all I can do for now. One post-note: I saw something earlier about only non-intelligent people can be indoctrinated into this church. This is simply not true. I happen to be intelligent, and have completed 3 years of college, with a major in math/computer science. I am one of those smart people. | ||
| Anonymous |
Could someone tell me what is the difference between the Pentecostal church and the United Pentecostal church? Is there a difference? | ||
| aexapo |
The United Pentecostal Church is the largest denomination within the "Oneness" or "Apostolic" sect of the greater Pentecostal movement. Apostolic Pentecostals (UPCI, among others) differentiate themselves from the rest of society, Pentecostalism, and even Christianity by denying the historic Christian doctrine of the Trinity, by requiring baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ ("Father, Son and Holy Spirit" is considered an illegitimate baptism within the Apostolic faith), and by requiring an adherance to Victorian-era styles of dress for women and other behavioral codes. In many Apostolic congregations, belief, agreement, and obedience to all codes and doctrines within the church are necessary for salvation, even if you are already "saved." Committing any sin -- according to this church -- and dying before repentance will send you to the same hell as Hitler, even if you were a pastor of such a church. For more information, check out http://ex-pentecostals.com | ||
| Anonymous |
CLOTHES WON'T GET YOU INTO HEAVEN... let's take a minute, and find out what it means to get into heaven, sinse this is a reigious forum, and almost all i am reading here are verious offences and defences...most of us know the bible verse in John 3:16, but what does it really mean to "believe"? I feel that if you really belive on Jesus, you're going to study your word, and want to live right, because if you believe in the power of God surely you should fear him as well as love him.Deut.4:10 (kjv)Specially the day that thou stoodest before the Lord they God in Ho'-reb, when the Lord said unto me, Gather me the people together, and I will make them hear my words, that they may learn to fear me all the days that they shall live upon the earth, and that they may teach their children. Ps.19:9(kjv)The fear of the Lord is clean, enduring for ever:the judgments of the Lord are true and righteous altogether.Ps.112:1(kjv)PRAISE ye the Lord. Blessed is the man that feareth the Lord, that delighteth greatly in his commandments.He 12:28(kjv)Wherefore we receiving a kingdom which cannot be moved, let us have grace, whereby we may serve God acceptably with reverence and godly fear: If you really believe that God is allpowerful, almighty, i'm sure you would have to fear, and love on the other side of things. Doesn't it make you want to find out what you need to do to live rightously before him? Check these out...Matt 22:36-40(kjv)Master, which is the great commandment in the law? Jesus said unto him.THOU SHALT LOVE THE LORD THY GOD WITH ALL THY HEART, AND WITH ALL THY WOUL, AND WITH ALL THY MIND. This is the first and great commandment.And the second is like unto it. THOU SHALT LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR AS THYSELF.On these two commandments hang all the law and the propnets.and, in the book of John 14:15,Jesus says...If ye love me, keep my commandments.Okay, great... but you still can't get to heaven by what you wear... but let's check deuteronomy 22:5 out, and hear what the Lord God, the one we love and fear, and want to keep commandments of has to say about our dress...The woman shall not wear that which pertaineth unto a man, neither shall a man put on a woman's garment: for all that do so are abomination unto the Lord thy God. Okay, so women don't wear the same styles now as they have in the past, and yes, we are to the point in society where it is acceptable for a man to wear a dress in some places, and even frowned upon to disagree. But, does GOD change for us as the generations do, as time passes, and clothing styles and fads change, does he recomposite a new list of bystandards as our morality decreases? the answer is absolutly not! See Heb13:8 Jesus Christ the same yesterday, and to day, and for ever... doesn't it make you think about why their women dress this way, logically? Also on the clothes... I would like you to know I am a new convert and belong to a UPC church in Hope, Indiana... and I have never been asked to dress in a specific manner, nor have i heard anyone else being instructed to, but the women there do it on their own accord, as a worship of God. out of LOVE for their master... I think it's admirable, and refreshing to finally find a church who doesn't just talk the talk... but walk the walk... these are the people you're talking about when you may speak to one another about how a Christian should behave.. they have a wonderful love for people.... and yes, outsiders... I had never recieved a warmer welcom, or so many handshakes in my life... and i came in pants and dark lipstick the first few visits... i let the pastor know upfront i was interested in a commitment to God, but not yet to a church, I made and intelligent and careful decision on what church i would stay with, after all, it is important that we not be misled. And I thank God today for the apostolic pentecostal church, and their people.. after months of church hopping, i finally found a place that resembled and carried on as the first church was told to. Any way, back on track.YOU CAN'T GET TO HEAVEN BY WHAT YOU WEAR. That statement is totally true, but, You can get to heaven by belief, and acting on that belief. We want to believe we are saved, and believe that we are loved by God, but not bless him in anyway... and okay, if that's what you opt to do, I still wouldn't be so sure that you really believed... how could you say you LOVE God and not WANT to give him worship and honor in everything that you do... what's so wrong or offensive or scarey, or cultish about people who love God and let him be the real master of their lives? What's so offensive, why do we speculate, because this type of commitment is scarey for human beings. It doesn't fit in with society today, and so it is rejected and so are it's people...but ... that's okay.I think that's another plus for the apostolic church...Mt5:11(kjv)Blessed are ye, when men shall revile you, and persecute you, and shall say all manner of evil against you falsely for my sake. Rejoice, and be exceedingly glad: for great is your reward in heaven: for so persecuted they the prophets which were before you. Any way, it's all about belief, but I really think it's how you act on this "belief".. that states wheather you believe or not.so... cudos to my church hoorah! | ||
| Anonymous |
UPC is the largest cult in the southern usa. | ||
| Anonymous |
(Excuses) What it all comes down to is being ashamed of the gospel of christ. what most people are afraid of is our standard of Holiness. because that is one thing that sets us apart from denominalism, most are too weak and ashame to live the way we believe the bible and the Holyghost leads and guilds us to look and act separate from the world. The bible says we are a peculiar people, a chosen people. Paul wrote to come out from among them and be ye separate. alot of it is just plain jealousy. | ||
| Anonymous |
Jealous is not the word, and you don't sound very Christ like with that superior atittude you seem to have. You say pentecostals are set apart from denominalism, when you fail to realize the pentecostal churh is just another denomination. | ||
| Anonymous |
I mean attitude and church. I misspelled those two words. | ||
| Tabby |
Pentecostals are not a cult. We do the things we do because we love God. We don't go to church for the people and then turn around and stop going because you think they seem like they could be a cult. If a church will get unity and let God be the one to judge then you will have peace among yourselves. If not then it really will big a big mess. And about the clothes issue or anything else to that matter, we only do that because that is how we understand the bible. I sure don't do it because of someone telling me. But I do respect my pastor. When you start living for God you will fins that you will want to do certain thigs for God that you never thought you would. I don't know how any of you feel about this religion but just don't look at the bad things about it. Look at it for where our heart really is and do some bible studying your self, you may be surprised. God Blees You All! I wish you all the best luck! -Tabby | ||
| Anonymous |
Why doesn't anyone talk on here anymore?? | ||
| Anonymous |
I was raised in a Pentecostal Church and over the years, I have, like many others, turned away from the many legalistic teachings and tried to find God's will for my life. As a member of the UPC, it's very hard to see God's will anywhere outside of that denomination since it is so indoctrinated in you that Pentecostals are the only ones who are saved and all other religions are simply wrong. I think that's why many people who do leave the UPC, or "backslide" (that dirty word!)get themselves involved in sinful lives... I think they feel that if they're going to hell, they might as well go all the way and they don't even consider looking into other churches. It has been the case for many of the young people who I grew up in church with anyhow, all of whom do not attend any church regularly. Ironically, I still attend this UPC church and I don't think the people there are bad people and I don't think the chuch is a cult, neccessarily. I think there is a true spirit of praise in the church and that the people there are like a family. I don't however, feel the same convictions about holiness standards and some of the other issues as most of them do. For me to not wear pants or make-up or cut my hair would only be trying to fit in, it wouldn't be from my heart and I wouldn't feel like I'm pleasing God, but only the pastor. Out of respect, I dress according to their standards when I go to church, but on the job or out shopping I am going to be myself- modest, but myself. God is watching me always and if I don't feel that he is judging me by my outward appearnace, why should I care what men say? There are a lot of issues that come to mind with the UPC, there are a lot of things I don't agree with and there are a lot of ironies when it comes to standards. I am not here to trash anybody, however. How Christ-like would that be? It has been my home church for nearly 27 years, however and I have some strong friendship that I have formed over the years. My spiritual burden is knowing that as long as I attend my UPC church while at the same time holding strong to my own convictions, I will never be a true part of the church. I will always be considered "worldy" simply based on my outward qualities and never quite fit in. It has been on my heart in the recent months to visit some other churches in my community to see if there is someplace where I can feel whole. It is somewhat intimidating but I feel that God is leading me in a new direction in my life and my stumbling upon this web site and others like it has been helpful. The primary message in the New Testament is to love one another. I feel that each person has a responsibility to do just that without judgment. If you're a Pentecostal and it feels right to you, then great! We all have to walk our own walk with the Lord and I hope, above all else, to please Him. | ||
| adam Shaw |
I find it very disconcerting and yet strangely amusing that your attacks upon the UPCI are not in any way based upon doctrine or biblical teaching but simply upon the gossip of former believers. Is it true that in the history of the UPCI that we have had ministers who display un-Christian actions? Yes. But so has the Roman Catholic Church, the Baptists, Pentecostal Assemblies and many other denominations. How come you don't have a website proclaiming every charge of sexual misconduct of other evangelical ministers of other organizations. Are you so weak in your defense of your doctrine of the Godhead that your only defense is to attack the integrity of an entire organization based upon the actions of a few ministers?? I certainly hope not. God bless you adam shaw | ||
| adam shaw and dennis brown |
Once again folks you have missed the point. Just because there are certain people in a particular organization who commit imoral and un-Godly acts, does that mean that the entire organization is at fault? Just because Bill Clinton was a part of American society, does that mean that all of American society is accountable for his actions?? Is your denomination perfect? Have you ever heard of a minister or a church member doing something un-Christian like? I think the important point to make, is do not judge the denomination but seek God for yourself within the context of the Bible. As a member of the United Pentecostal Church I do not have my blinders on. It is certaintly not a perfect organisation. Comparitavely, I have never heard of an organisation, religious or not, that has not gone through its own set of tribulations. Personally, I subscribe to the doctrine we hold because it is literalist. What attracted me was the fact they look at the whole Bible and don't pick and choose. That being said, one thing we must look at, is that the UPC believes wholeheartedly in the autonomy of the local congregation. The congregation elects its own ministers, writes its own constitution, and, for any reason has the right to dismiss elected officials (i.e. the Pastor). In other words the local church is self-governing. The local church's connection to the UPC is based upon the subscribing to a certain belief system and also through the pastor's submission to a governing presbytry. Therefore, realising the self-governing nature of the local church, it is a given that in the UPC there will be a minority who abuse their position as a minister. Just like in elementary school, out of all the wonderful teachers I had, there was the one who was mean and unfair. And to be honest, if we were perfect we would have been Jesus. So back to your original question. Why are we a cult? Was Christianity not a cult at first? Is Christianity still a cult in some parts of the world? I would love to invite you to dissect all of the doctrine of the church. If you can find one principle in there, that does not come from the word of God (IN THE BIBLE), I would absolutely love to hear about it. I too, thought that Pentecostals were a cult. The thing that we have to rid from our minds, is this idea of denomination. What are you looking for? Are you looking for a personal relationshiop with Jesus? Or are you looking to hold on to a denominational belief system? I feel not obligated nor compelled to stay with a United Pentecostal church. I am here to have personal relationship with Christ. If you can show me another denomionation that hungers for the truth as these folks do, please come forward and share your doctrine. To those who have been hurt, I implore you do not lose your faith in the One who saved you. Don't let the actions of a church or a person affect your relationship with Jesus. If you never again step foot into a United Pentecostal Church, make sure you still keep your relationship with Christ. I love you and am praying for you, adam shaw and Dennis Brown | ||
| Anonymous |
I find it interesting that there are those on this site who are backing up the UPC since I found this site by looking up "Apostolic cults." Perhaps you are in question of your "truth." | ||
| adam |
To respond to anonymous of Tuesday Sept 16, 2003. I do not question my "truth" as you put it. I am on this site because I know that there are those who have either been hurt by members of the UPC or have a misdirected view of our organisation. My writing is apologetic in nature, I am attempting to persuade those who have been hurt by carnal human beings to not lose faith in our doctrine simply because of the actions of a few individuals. I, as before, invite you to dissect our doctrine. God bless you adam shaw | ||
| Pastor of UPC church |
just a friendly note to say regardless of what offense may have tripped you up, it's not God's will that any should perish. It's my hope and prayer that (whether or not you become UPC) that you abscribe to the whole counsel of God and seek out your salvation with fear and trembling. God does have a plan for our lives it's up to us to be sensitive to his voice and be man or woman enough to obey what we feel God is leading us to do. | ||
| Anonymous |
I am writing to the July 29 anonymous writer who was raised in the UPC. I feel the exact same way! It was like I wrote it! I had always had a relationship with God but I was like Cornelious in Acts 10. I loved God, prayed, gave alms and like Cornelious after a long prayer God gave me a dream. Oct. 1998 I prayed the only prayer I knew at the time and I repented to God and after a hour long prayer asked God to give me His Holy Spirit. I fell asleep and in the dream it was so real! My two children and my husband and self were in a lake swimming and all of a sudden out of no where God came back I could not beleive it was really here. We read it and are preached it all our lives, but somehow does not seam real. But my heart pounded as I realized judement day was here. Then out of the water my 4 year old neice Kaitlyn rose out of the water(she appeared to be about two years older) people were being taken up and I was still here. Then as I thought I hope I make it I fell back into the water as if I was being baptized. Then the power of God was so powerful and my tongue was being controlled by God. I awoke and I knew God had spoken to me. I immediately told my husband and began to cry. He took notice he being a non believer completely. Well two years passed and God made room for me to actually read the Word of God, not liston to what my grandman, dad and man says!! And guess what the bible says all over the place YOU MUST be born again of the water and the spirit! JOHN 3:3-8 and Mark 16:16 says He that beleives and is babtized shall be saved.vrs 17 says and these signs shall follow them that believe, in my name they shall speak with new tongues (concordance#1100 unaquired language) Peter after being given the Keys to heaven preached 10 days later when all the people at least 3,000 realized they killed the Savior Jesus what must we do??? Peter said to them Repent, and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of your sins and you shall recieve the promise of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is for you and to your children andd to all that are afar off.. The apostles obeyed Mathew 28:19 Remember Jesuse gave the apostles understanding... (luke 24:45) Niether is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given amoung men, whereby we must be saved. Acts4:12 IN word or deed do ALL in the name of Jesus. Col 3:17. Then I read ACTS 10 about this man who prayed so much he had a memorial in heaven. God sent him an angel to send for Peter to preach to him how to be SAVED. ACTS 11:14 As Peter preached to Cornelious they recieve the HOly Ghost for they heard them speak with tongues. Then Peter said CAn any man forbid water that these should not be baptized, which recieved the HOly Ghost AND HE COMMANDED them to be baptized in the name of of the LOrd. Commanded!! ACTS 10:43-48 That is what the Word of God says. You either believe it or not. Then there is ACts 19:1-5 There are disciples now mind you this is some 20-30 years after Christ died. what are disciples followers of Jesus! They believed and were even baptized under Johns baptism. But according to Paul there was more. Paul asks them Have you recieved the Holy Ghost since YOU BELEIVED?? Wow dont you get saved once you believed I asked myself. THis does not line up with my teachings??? It goes on They like me had not even heard of the Holy Ghost. Then Paul asks HOw where you baptized? They said unto Johns, Paul then says Johns baptized with the baptizm of repentance, saying unot the people, that they should believe on him which should come after him that is on Christ Jesus. vrs 5 when they heard this they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus and when Paul laid his hands upon them the Holy Ghost came on them and they spoke with tongues. So God does things Gods ways. I dont want to be like those who followed after mens ways. Not everyone who says lord shall enter into the Kingdom of heaven but he that DOES the will of my Father, many will say Lord LOrd .... and then will I profess unot them I never knew you depart from me you that work iniquity( self-will) You either believe the Word of God. There is no private interpetation it means what it says no more or no less. So I prayed with a new heart for Me to be saved I wanted all you have for me God. God the same day I got a call from old friends that wanted to come up to Idaho to visit. They had recently recieved the Holy Ghost and been changed. I could not believe our old friends that had party very much. WE listoned to the bible study and everything God pointed out they taught on. That night I was baptized in Jesus name.My husband was mad, and did not believe in God. We all prayed and I might add in a way not normal for me. WE prayed out loud with lifted hands and my husband said God if you are real show me. AT that moment God touched my unbeleiving husband. He began to cry with the presence of a Holy God. I was a bit distracted with how people prayed. That next day they left and my husband which never had wanted church said I am going to that aposotolic church 65 miles away. I told him I was tired he said good bye I am going myself. I changed my mind and drove to that church. As we approached I felt something stirring inside. We walked into something that seemed so unreal. Like the twilight zone! I wanted to bolt but something kept me there. I am reminded of the temple MOses built must of looked pretty ugly from the outside with those badger skins, but inside where the glory of God is beautiful. Well as we sang and prayed I began to cry. I tried to stop, but the presence of God was so great. I decided to focus only on Jesus and I began to love him and tell him how thankful I was for His blood, and I wanted all He has for me. FIll me with His spirit. As I was saying Halleluja my tongue was taken over from God. It was so beautiful and awesom! I began to speak in some language!! It was incredibal. My husband and I have been married for 21 years his eyes popped out of his head at this miracle. God as He promised still for all of us today. Jesus is the same yesterday today and forever. He has more for us!! But I will say I agree men mess with the word of God everywhere. Remember they are just men, I studied for years about the dress issue. I too attend a UPC church and respect my pastor and wear a dress to church, but Due 22:5 pertaining to men is the transexual is an abmination to God. Yes we must be holy to the temple of God which is our bodies. We must be modest, but it is up to the HOLy Ghost to work on us, not mens ways. Remember the bible is not for private interpetation! It is what is says, no more no less. Dont add dress, jewerly, makeup to Come out from amoung them and be ye holy. When you are baptized in the name of Jesus ACT 2:38 says it remits your sins. When you are filled with the spirit of God you become Holy by HIs rightousness in us! Come out from amoung them them being the sinners the world and touch not sin again. I see things the same way. The law was outside seperation. No linen with cotten, beards of men cut straight across, locks long, but Jesus hung on the cross and he now looks on the heart. Gal5:1, 4:22-25, and gal 3:1-3 . I am not sure why we can say we go back to the customs of 100 years ago, why not then go back 2,0oo years ago and where robes? We live in this world but we are not apart of it. Remember only obey the written word and be not like Saul who fears men, but like DAvid who fears God. Yes you fear God is the beginning of wisdom so we can turn from our sin and obey Gods commands which I love! I want the blessed promise of eternal life with the perfect Jesus! I am pressured a bit to fit in and agree with others about these issues, but like I said I will not do them for man, or pressured I will do them only if the Word of God says it. If there was a church that preached salvation truth that the Bible teaches I would go to another church, but that is one imperfection and to me seems small in comparison to the other churches compromising baptism and the Holy GHost. These people that are doing it out of love to God will be blessed for their convictions, as long as they dont cause one to be offended or stumble!! Who to them that cause an offence. Math 18:5-7 Apostolic preachers you are great teachers of the word, but GAl1:8-9 IF you are pushing people out including the young girls for something that was taugh 100 years ago from your preachers then is not this something from mens traditions not from Gods written word!! REmember always there is no private interpetation. It is what it is no more no less. Moses drew lines He was so humble God spoke to him face to face. And remember Moses wrote the first 5 books, there WAS NO WRITTEN WORD AT THE TIME! Lets start reaching for the dying lost people and love everyone and let God do the rest! Jesus came to seek and save them that are lost! Signed; Just want to fit into Gods WAys! | ||
| Anonymous |
Oh one more thing about the dream in 1998. My little niece that came out of the water. She was killed Sept 30, 2000. God gave me a scripture the day she died. 1 Thes 4:16 The dead in Christ shall rise first.... God gave me such a great peace in a horribal time. Yes two years before she died He showed me she would be with him. | ||
| Alicia Smith |
I have been a member of the UPC church now for almost seven years. I'm being totally honest. Yes there are somethings that I don't totally agree with or yet have come to understanding, but any church that I attend that will also be the case because churches are run by man and that leaves a lot of room for error. I love my church and my pastor. I was reading about how some people were concerned with people who attend the UPC they alienate themselves from their family. I don't spend as much time with my family because the time we did spend together were doing things that I would'nt dream of doing any more.(clubs,drinking, fighting,) We have a great relationship, but not the same idea of fun times. Yes we do have some standards that seem off the wall to some, like skirts on ladies and no make-up) which I have a hard tme dealing with and still do and I live day by day. But honestly when you see two people walking down the street both have pants and long hair sometimes we have to guess wheather that person is a male or female.Also on bathroom stalls if they didnt make one of them pictures with a skirt we would be very confused. In Det. it says it's an abomination for women to wear the apparel of a man. I guess how you act on that scripture is between you and God.I pray not to get caught up on out ward standards and that if I'm humble and broken before the Lord and seeking only to please Him He will direct me on what to wear. Inward holiness will reflect on outward holiness. No I don't belive UPC is a cult, just not what maybe society would consider the norm for a church.I want to sincerely apologize to anyone who has left churches because of the way they were treated. They are going to be difficult people who are not the majority and it's sad that they would cause a person a stray. Don't put your trust in man they will let you down. I pray that this came out right. Lean not unto your own unserstanding, but in all your ways acknowledge Him and He shall direct your paths. | ||
| Anonymous |
I'm a former UPCI Minister. By the grace of God I'm no longer a member of this heretical group. They deny the Trinity, deny the Finish work of Calvary, deny the doctrine of Grace, legalistic, teach you must speak in tongues & be baptize in Jesus Name to be saved. I wonder how the deaf can speak in tongues? God makes it clear in Scripture how to be saved "John 3:16, Acts 2:21, 4:12, 16:30-31, Romans 10:9-10." We are to be believe in Jesus, and its only by God's grace anyone is saved "not by their made up works," Ephesians 2:1-9. Yes, the Oneness Movement is heretical, and the United Pentecostal Church is a cult!!!!! | ||
| woodrow steadman |
i am a pastor and a minister of a pentacostal church. i beleive in the trinity. i do not beleive that water baptisum saves a person all are saved by the BLOOD of JESUS. we must not put anything in place of JESUS for salvation we cant wear or not wear something in order to be saved. we must just live like CHRIST JESUS would have us to.. after we are saved. thanks for letting me talk here. rev steadman | ||
| Anonymous |
It is a cult, and what about babies born in to it? I was born into this cult religion, I had no choice! For 18 yrs of my life I was afraid of God. You who are UPC know what I am talking about, the whole love him fear him. God should be about peace and love, no strings attacted! The god of the bible did not say (you will burn in hail if you go dancing) matter of fact they danced. The God of the bible did not say (you will burn in hail if you cut your hair, wear jewlery, makeup, wemen in pants, short sleves, go to the pool with the other sex, wear shorts, go to the movies!) Those are man made rules, to control his cult members in the UPC. They use scare tatics and talks of hail if they disobey thier minister, or the church. UPC is a cult. | ||
| Mary Hindmarsh |
I agree with Adam and Dennis Brown on everything you have said. I attend a UPC and was raised in it. I have been backslidden and been born again. I have been out there where I was hurt by people-even UPC's. But I wouldn't blame GOd or the "church" for one mistake that a particular person made. You cant judge every UPC by one person. Everyone is different. As for myself, I have been to many different churches to try and find where God has wanted me, and I just can't explain the peace I feel in my home, the UPChurch. It may be different for others and that is fine. I dont believe that UPC's are the only CHristians going to Heaven. I believe there will be many different Christians in Heaven. We need to stop talking about "RELIGION"~ we need to be "Christians" and do what we know is right....and Judgement is not how a Christian would handle things. | ||
| Mary Hindmarsh |
We are suppose to be examples to those who need GOd and go reach out.......Instead~~ everyone sits and argues about "What If's".That's not what God wants. Isn't that what is most important?? So many are just trying to find excuses for why they dont like UPC's~or whatever religion they are argueing so they can feel they are justified...when we should be spending that time just serving God. Thats the most important thing. | ||
| Anonymous |
Hello all, I do not belive anyone hear is trying to find excuses for why they do not like UPC churches. I belive these people are using this chat as a sorta therapy tool and to reach out and help others who might fall prey to other cult like churches. Mary, I think your hear at this site because you have questions yourself, deep inside. The truth will set you free.....but as jesus said "seek and you shall find". Mary, read the bible from start to finsh, look up words and find thier true meaning. Let the thick fog be removed from your vission and see the bible with open eyes. It is all there.....but one must read it for thereself and not just listen to the minister. What you will read is going to shock you and break your heart and once you know the truth you must decide what path to take one of light or the dark path. This has nothing to do with religion for that is man made. This has to do with your spiritual life, your soul. This cult has hurt many people more than you will ever know. Man was not ment to have such power over thier people, God/Goddess was. The true creators are of love not fear, not hate, not death and destrution. They want us to be happy and love everyone for we were all created in thier image. Read God of the old testements words and his actions, is that what you should serve? A God of war? God of the old testement promises to give you treasures of darkness, Isaiah 45:3. Ishaiah 45:7 he says he forms the light and the darkness. he says he makes peace and creates evil. He calls himself the God of the spirts of flesh. Numbers 27:16. He calls himself a Mighty and terrible god. Read in Lev 26 about his punishments to his people for breaking thier covent. Notice he appears many times in a cloud of thick darkness Exodus 20:21, Deut 5:22 and there are so many more times if you read the old testement from start to finsih. So much I could write for you to look up but I think you should read it for yourself. Remember there are not just christains in this world and no one has the right to say they are evil or will not go to heaven. I too gre up UPC and when I married and left home I traveled a great deal and found one UPC that was wonderful but the rest was a cult. I am now a pagan, and became that way through reading the bible and other ancient text. Seeking means much work many hours of reading and learning other languages. Rember that the bible was not wrote by a gods hands nor by Jesus hands but by man. The stories, most of them were wrote by scribes and after they had been told in an oral tradition. Look in the bibble at the dates. For example the date that te book of joshua was written was in Fourteenth century B.C. That is a very long time for the stories to have traveled by mouth. Think about the phone game, you start with a small sentance and whisper it in one persons ear and they to the next....by the time it gets to the last person it has changed. As I have found there a bit of truth behind every myth and that applies to the bible. One also must read how Jesus spoke and compare it to the old testement god. They had different views even on the comandments and of takening oaths. What people at this site are wanting is questions to thier abuse at the hands of man in a cult church, and why it happen and to see if others had it happen too. Just remember that it is man who has hurt you not are true creators, for they loved us so much they created us in their image. Follow your spirit of wisdom as you read the bible, take no ones words for what they mean. Finding the truth is not easy but if you truly want to know then you must search for yourself. May you all find the peace and happiness I have found. BTW I came to this website to help those who have been hurt as I was by cult churches. Once you learn the truth and chose the path of the light you will be happy and know your loved. Takening a stand is not easy but the right thing to do. | ||
| Yaakov |
Mary I would also encourage you to read the bible. When I read the Old Testament, I read about God’s love for us. I see that God wants us to feel pleasure and seek justice. God is inclusive stating that everyone can enjoy His bounty, not just a select few. God created this world and everything in it for us. It would be a mistake to not taste all the fruits that God has provided. | ||
| woodrow steadman |
can anyone out there tell me their experiances with the JESUS NAME APOSTOLIC CHURCH which steve winter pastors? i have read a lot of negative things about what he has to say. i do know that he is very critical of any other CHURCH and calls them names like scum and dirt bag and false CHRISTIANS. he is very down on any one who does not follow the teaching of baptisim in JESUS NAME. now that is a cult to me woodrow steadman | ||
| Ms Eleanor (63.236.249.169) |
I am part of the UPCI and Proud of it. Where are all the good people that can help those in need on this site? Please sign in and speak for Jesus! I have been living for Him from Feb. 1978 till now. And each day is a joy and a walk by faith. We have to travel about 100 miles to church each Sunday and it is worth all the sacrifice, because God is there and we can find strength woshiping with our brothers and sisters. Some of you have a church in your home town and find some reason not to worship there any more. So find a One God church you can worshiop with for your souls salvation. I am seeing many backsliders come back in recent years. My mother was one of them. I told her in love, "You can be miserable backsliden or living for God. Would't you rather be living for God?" ( this was because her husband is not a believer, she did think she could live for God if he wasn't) It is a beautiful thing to see your mother come back in the church. She is such a blessing to her church in Florida and she even gets her husband to help her with church activities. She will win him yet. God bless you all today and feel free to write me for encouragement. (and sorry about the spelling) mseleanor | ||
| carolyn mac (152.163.253.102) |
I am a upc member and proud of it! I to was raised in upc and stopped going for a few years as i got older but let me tell you you will never find a more true experience from god than you can feel here I went to other churches trying to find one i really wanted to beleive in but when i searched myself and the word of god this church is real and is not a cult.some of you out there certainly those of you that have at one time been a part of this and filled with the holy ghost as the bible teaches needs to recall the bible verse on blasphemy of the holy ghost | ||
| Anonymous (216.43.143.73) |
[quote]some of you out there certainly those of you that have at one time been a part of this and filled with the holy ghost as the bible teaches needs to recall the bible verse on blasphemy of the holy ghost[/quote] Some people need to learn to quit twisting scriptures. Blasphemy of the Holy Spirit is rejecting Christ, not your interpretation of the Holy Spirit. Even Paul said not all speak in tongues. 1 Corinthians 14 (NIV) 5I would like every one of you to speak in tongues,[1] but I would rather have you prophesy. He who prophesies is greater than one who speaks in tongues,[2] unless he interprets, so that the church may be edified. I would be quite careful about claiming someone who rejects your beliefs, but accepts Christ. Matthew 7 (NIV) 22Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' 23Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!' | ||
| Mrs. D. Silva (66.159.248.61) |
No, the U.P.C. is not a cult. It a denomation/man made organization with much precious truth, including a clear note and certain sound regarding the basics of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. (Acts 2:38) But there is a desperate need to seriously consider some of the teachings, assumptions and practices of the U.P.C. in light of the Word of God. Please see www.GloriousChurch.com | ||
| firebaptized (66.157.69.170) |
I have heard different debates on whether UPC or Jesus Only is a cult. Their doctrine is not scriptural and denying the Trinity is a soul damning doctrine because it twists the very image and nature of God. I'm sure there are some good people innocently mixed up in UPC but whether or not they go to heaven is something only God knows but it is very important that people understand that not all Pentecostals believe like UPC or Jesus Only. They give Pentecostals a bad name They only represent a very small fraction of Pentecostals, which believe in the Trinity and don't teach that if you don't speak in tongues, you go to hell. | ||
| Tamera Kwist (149.161.224.29) |
I posted this on another message board and then realized it was not under the right topic ***************** I joined a UPC church for a while but had the following "issues" -they kept trying to convince me that I wasn't saved because I did not speak in tongues (however 21 years prior to this, when I was 7 years old my father went over Romans 10: 9 with me... "If you confess with your mouth" etc. and we prayed together. After I accepted the Lord I felt a warmth wash over me from head to toe. I had been touched by God or something, the UPC said I only had a taste of the Holy Ghost but was not yet "saved") -The Pastor often preached that we (the congregation) didn't belong anywhere else except church when there were services being held... that was almost every night of the week. -The Pastor said if you didn't come up for the altar call then you were "resisting the Holy Spirit." Resist? I wondered. The Lord never called me to go up there so I just stayed in my pew and prayed silently, and yet wondered what others thought of me because I didn't go up to the altar. -Dress code, hair code... When I joined I took my children to Goodwill and I got myself and my daughter a bunch of skirts and dresses so we would fit in... immediately after, my daughter grew about six inches within the next couple months and I began to feel increasingly uncomfortable... and I can't grow my daughters hair out long. Its very fine and brittle. I began to lose hope that we would ever "fit in" -One service I made it up to the altar, I was crying and apologizing to God, not praying out loud, mind you. But I said I was sorry for whatever it was I did wrong that he would not give me the gift of speaking in tongues. But then I realized I had done nothing wrong except... Trying so hard to do everyting right so the church would accept me... the church... not God. After leaving the UPCI I became disgruntled as a Christian. I kept telling the Lord, I know you exist but now I am confused about what to believe. I know you'll show me the truth. The truth is in the word of God. If theres one thing I learned is not to depend on other peoples interpretation of the Bible, but read it for yourself and see if the churchs belief system fully measure up to the word of God. In the case of legalism, the book of Galations is very useful. I know I am saved by faith in Christ alone. I can't be "good enough". No one can except the Lord himself. Theres a verse in a Greg Long song says "I know now when heaven looks at me, its through the blood of Jesus." I am glad God does not expect perfection from me, because I'd fail miserably at that. And I think that some people expect more from us than the God who made us does. | ||
| Tamera Kwist (149.161.224.29) |
Me again and I want to add... I went out and bought a King James Bible when I joined the UPCI because its the only Bible the approve, despite the fact that it was by reading the NIV and the Amplified Versions, along with Joyce Meyer's book "The Battle Field of The Mind" that set me free from severe depression and suicidal thoughts. I turned my back on the translations of the Word of God that had set me free, all to be accepted in a church who doesn't even believe I am saved! I often wonder about the disbelief in the Trinity, the Jesus name only Baptisms, the extra requirements for salvation. Yes I know that people were Baptized into Jesus name in the book of Acts. But I've got one question... for about 1900 years between the time of the Apostles, and the UPCI church, I guess no one was saved. And all those who lived during this time period are going to hell because they weren't baptized in Jesus name, or they believed in the trinity? Think about it, that doesn't really make sense. Or do you think God's grace falls only on those who were around before the UPCI came about? | ||
| nIQUILLA (172.144.171.149) |
Let me add 1 thing to sum it all up for u ppl: THE UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH IS AN A CULT! all yu ppl that agree props to ya, there is nooo way i'm goin back there. | ||
| Anonymous (208.28.223.78) |
I have not been a regular member of any church for years. Yesterday, for whatever reason, I decided to search the web for "UPC" and it didn't take long to come upon this forum. I was shocked to find out that some people thought of the UPC as a cult. I was overwhelmed with a feeling of sadness that is hard to describe. I grew up in UPC and Apostolic churches. I feel they are one of many denominations that are sincerely searching for "truth", not a cult as defined through the responses/actions/words of several previous posts. I have nothing but love for these people. Every Pastor that I have known left me with the impression that first and foremost they were concerned for my soul regardless of my tithes or lack thereof, what I wore or how I combed my hair. Maybe I missed something when I was going to these churches but I was also amazed at the number of people that said the UPC didn't believe in The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost(trinity), I believe they do and they call his name Jesus. I guess my experience with the "oneness" denominations has been different than others. I have felt hurt there but I have also felt loved, I have been admonished by the Pastor but I have also been anointed with oil. There is room for growth among all denominations and I will not give the title of "cult" to anyone searching for "truth" among the pages of the Bible. It is through faith that I believe the "truth" to be there. Earlier I stated that I was a former member, I do not feel so much as a member but that I was born into it. I still feel that way. I posted this to neither condemn the misspellors nor to appease the poets. It is with true sincerity that I say this to all who posted here, "May Jesus forgive me first of my many sins and may he cause his light to shine on you, build a hedge around you and give peace to your heart... | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.32) |
UPC is a sick baby! | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.72) |
UPC, is a harlot church. | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.72) |
The apostasy of the so-called Apostolic Church… For they who affirm that the Son is the Father, are proved neither to have become acquainted with the Father, nor to know that the Father of the universe has a Son; who also, being the first-begotten Word of God, is even God. from The First Apology of Justin Martyr, chapter LXIII. The so-called Apostolic churches, also called “United Pentecostal” churches (not to be confused with other Pentecostal churches) together with their independent church break-offs form the cult known as “Jesus Only”. This "Jesus Only Movement", which is in fact not of Jesus, has been making its move to infiltrate and lead astray and away the flocks of other churches with a false spirit renewal, legalistic teaching and a call to pseudo-holiness. This is a religion which denies the Scriptural doctrine of the Holy Trinity by claiming that the three persons of the one true God are merely one person. In essence, these so-called Apostolics adhere to a false belief that the Father, Son and Holy Spirit are Jesus. They profess a false formula about the "oneness" of God. God truly is one, however, He is eternally expressed in three persons, namely speaking, the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. The true essential doctrine of God’s triune nature is departed from in their beliefs, resulting in their worship of a false god. It is nothing short of being a damnable doctrine which they believe. This apostate doctrine of a oneness of God, as if He were only but one person, was actually present during the days of the early church. It was denounced as false doctrine and those who professed it were exposed as deceivers, not just by one, but by two prominent early church writers: Iganatius (A.D. 30-107) and Justin Martyr (A.D. 110-165). I therefore, yet not I, but the love of Jesus Christ, “entreat you that ye all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you; but that ye be perfectly joined together in the same mind, and in the same judgment.” For there are some vain talkers and deceivers, not Christians, but Christ-betrayers, bearing about the name of Christ in deceit, and “corrupting the word” of the Gospel; while they intermix the poison of their deceit with their persuasive talk, as if they mingled aconite with sweet wine, that so he who drinks, being deceived in his taste by the very great sweetness of the draught, may incautiously meet with his death. One of the ancients gives us this advice, “Let no man be called good who mixes good with evil.” For they speak of Christ, not that they may preach Christ, but that they may reject Christ; and the speak of the law, not that they may establish the law, but that they may proclaim things contrary to it. For they alienate Christ from the Father and the law from Christ. They also calumniate his being born of the Virgin; they are ashamed of His cross, they deny His passion; and they do not believe His resurrection. They introduce God as a Being unknown; they suppose Christ to be unbegotten; and as to the Spirit, they do not admit that He exists. Some of them say that the Son is a mere man, and that the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit are but the same person, and that the creation is the work of God, not by Christ, but by some other strange power. Epistle of Ignatius to the Trallians, chapter VI. You can see for yourself that although the word “Trinity” was not coined until a time later than these early writings, the doctrine of the Holy Trinity was nevertheless present in the early church and was the belief of Christians as it is has been the doctrinal faith of Christians throughout the centuries and today. True, the word “Trinity” is not present in the Bible but the doctrine is there, just as the doctrine of “Monotheism” is in the Scriptures without the actual word being present in the text. The accusation made by these cultists, that the doctrine of the Holy Trinity is of pagan origin, lacks merit. Doctrines of divine incarnation, virgin birth, blood atonement, and resurrection of the dead also have been doctrines among pagans as well as that of a trinity. Nevertheless, United Pentecostalists believe these other doctrines and will not assert that these teachings are of pagan origin. The apostasy of the United Pentecostalists is heightened by their insistance that water baptism is more than an act of obedience by declaring the act as a salvation requirement. Please see our article... Water baptism is NOT a salvation reqirement http://www.dokimos.org/immersed.html We are baptized because we have received remission of sins, which is, forgiveness of our sins. God forgives us of our sins before we are water baptized. He does NOT withhold his forgiveness until we are baptized. The blood of Jesus Christ His Son cleanses us from all sin (1 John 1:7b). The United Pentecostalists frequently perverse the meaning of this passage... Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost. - Acts 2:38 Moreover, United Pentecostals will insist that, to be saved, water baptism must be done exclusively with the words "in the name of Jesus" only, to the exclusion of God the Father and Holy Spirit. A water baptism performed spoken with the words "in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit" would be esteemed as invalid by them despite that this is commanded by our Lord in Scripture. In the name, hence authority, of Jesus Christ, Peter commanded those who heard to be baptized. Peter was not saying for them to baptized with a spoken formula of "in the name of Jesus". When we read about baptism in the name of Jesus from the book of Acts it is to be understood that the Holy Spirit, not water, is the element of immersion. The only instances this is not the case is when the words "in the name of Jesus" are used to present authority for a command. These words were never used for a verbal baptism formula. In furtherance of their errors, United Pentecostals believe that when salvation is received one must demonstrate the initial evidence of the baptism of the Holy Spirit, the speaking of other tongues. Mainstream Pentecostal churches which hold to evangelical doctrine do not teach such as they view Spirit baptism as potentially occuring subsequent to salvation. For more information on Spirit baptism, as taught from the book of Acts and other Scriptures, we refer to our own article... Holy Spirit Baptism into Christ and the Spirit-filled life http://EmpoweredEvangelicals.com/empowered-evangelicals/empowered-evangelicals.html Christian doctrine is set forth by God's word as covenant, the Holy Scriptures. Scripture expresses God as three persons, yet one God. The three persons are namely, the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: - Deuteronomy 6:4 The Hebrew word for “God” is “Elohim” which is a plural. The Biblical Hebrew word for “one” in the above passage is “echad” which is translated to mean a corporate oneness. This word is not always to be understood as simply a numeric count, just as true in the English language. God is a plural number of persons yet one. The word one as "echad" is continually used in referrence to the one true God throughout the Holy Scriptures. A clear example of the meaning of the Hebrew word "echad" may be also found in the celebration of the Jewish Passover. The three-pocketed matza holder used during Passover is referred to as an "echad". Consequently, it is the middle of the three matzas that is broken during the ceremony. The Holy Trinity of God and the brokenness of the Second Person of the Trinity are clearly revealed in this ancient tradition. The "echad", the one true God, is the Holy Trinity. The United Pentecostalists deny the true Biblical doctrine of the oneness of God that expresses His corporate unity. Jesus is one God with His Father. This is what Jesus meant when He said, "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30). Neither pray I for these alone, but for them also which shall believe on me through their word; That they all may be one; as thou, Father, art in me, and I in thee, that they also may be one in us: that the world may believe that thou hast sent me. And the glory which thou gavest me I have given them; that they may be one, even as we are one: - John 17:20-22 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me. - John 8:17-18 If God the Father and His Son Jesus are not two persons, neither can they be two witnesses. It is clearly seen from the above words of God's Son Jesus that He and the Father are two persons. Together with the Holy Spirit the three are one. For there are three that bear record in heaven, the Father, the Word, and the Holy Ghost: and these three are one. - 1 John 5:7 And God said, Let us make man in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth. - Genesis 1:26 Who is the “us” here? God did not create the world with assistance. Neither does God have a pronoun problem. The “us” is the Godhead, the Holy Trinity, of whom the Father, Son and Holy Spirit all were responsible for creation. Someone does not refer to Himself as "us" unless other persons are there also, hence, first person plural. Here is another passage where you see the same speech from our Lord… And the LORD said, Behold, the people is one, and they have all one language; and this they begin to do: and now nothing will be restrained from them, which they have imagined to do. Go to, let us go down, and there confound their language, that they may not understand one another's speech. – Genesis 11:6-7 Also I heard the voice of the Lord, saying, Whom shall I send, and who will go for us? Then said I, Here am I; send me. – Isaiah 6:8 Isaiah was not volunteering to go for anyone besides the Lord who is mentioned in first person plural. And one cried unto another, and said, Holy, holy, holy, is the LORD of hosts: the whole earth is full of his glory. – Isaiah 6:3 Notice the repitition, it was not in vain. It was to glorify the Father, Son and Spirit. The Holy Trinity is revealed in the Old Testament Scriptures even in other ways as well… Seek ye out of the book of the LORD, and read: no one of these shall fail, none shall want her mate: for my mouth it hath commanded, and his spirit it hath gathered them. – Isaiah 34:16 my = God, the Father mouth = God, the Son (The Word) spirit = God, the Holy Spirit And God said moreover unto Moses, Thus shalt thou say unto the children of Israel, The LORD God of your fathers, the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob, hath sent me unto you: this is my name for ever, and this is my memorial unto all generations. - Exodus 3:15 God of Abraham = revelation of God, the Father God of Isaac = revelation of God, the Son God of Jacob = revelation of God, the Holy Spirit The three are one God. Same is seen in Exodus 3:16, Exodus 4:5, Matthew 22:32, Mark 12:26, Luke 20:37 and other places in Holy Scripture. Now let us observe the Holy Trinity revealed in the New Testament... And Jesus, when he was baptized, went up straightway out of the water: and, lo, the heavens were opened unto him, and he saw the Spirit of God descending like a dove, and lighting upon him: And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased. – Matthew 3:16-17 Jesus = God, the Son saw Spirit of God = God, the Spirit and heard a voice saying “my” = God, the Father All Deity, three persons, not one person. Let us not forget this passage… And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost: - Matthew 28:18-19 It does not say here that the “name” is Jesus. If you are to understand a “name” here it will be that of the LORD. However, what the word “name” here is communicating, by the context of the words of God's Son Jesus, is the power of “authority”. We are to baptize the people of the nations and to teach them in the power or authority of the entire triune Godhead. God the Father gave the authority to His Son. Therefore, we baptize in the authority given to the Son as He tells us to do so. It cannot be correctly concluded from these verses that Jesus is His own Father nor that He is the entirety of the Godhead. And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God. – Luke 1:35 Highest = God, the Father Son of God = God, the Son (Jesus) Holy Ghost = God, the Holy Spirit One God, yet Three Divine Persons For he whom God hath sent speaketh the words of God: for God giveth not the Spirit by measure unto him. - John 3:34 God = God, the Father he, him = God, the Son Spirit = God, the Holy Spirit One God, yet Three Divine Persons But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you. – John 14:26 Father = God, the Father my, I = God, the Son Comforter, Holy Ghost = God, the Holy Spirit One God, yet Three Divine Persons The Comforter was sent in the name, meaning sent in the authority, of Jesus. Jesus was not saying that this Comforter was Him, as Jesus Himself said... And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever; Even the Spirit of truth; - John 14:16-17a Father, he = God, the Father I = God, the Son another Comforter, he, Spirit of truth = God, the Holy Spirit One God, yet Three Divine Persons This Jesus hath God raised up, whereof we all are witnesses. Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed forth this, which ye now see and hear. - Acts 2:32-33 God, Father = God, the Father Jesus, he = God, the Son Holy Ghost = God, the Holy Spirit One God, yet Three Divine Persons But if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you. - Romans 8:11 him, he, his = God, the Father Jesus, Christ = God, the Son Spirit = God, the Holy Spirit One God, yet Three Divine Persons Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost. – 1 Corinthians 12:3 God = God, the Father Jesus, Lord = God, the Son Holy Ghost = God, the Holy Spirit “Lord” here shows that Jesus is master and that he is God, but not that he is Godhead. One God, yet Three Divine Persons Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit. And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord. And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all. – 1 Corinthians 12:4-6 God = God, the Father Lord = God, the Son Spirit = God, the Holy Spirit One God, yet Three Divine Persons The grace of the Lord Jesus Christ, and the love of God, and the communion of the Holy Ghost, be with you all. Amen. – 2 Corinthians 13:14 God = God, the Father Lord Jesus Christ= God, the Son Holy Ghost = God, the Holy Spirit One God, yet Three Divine Persons Ephesians 4:5 below is a favorite quote among U.P.s which says "One Lord, one faith, one baptism". United Pentecostalists take these words completely out of context and meaning when saying that the "One Lord" is the Godhead. Let us read it in its proper context… There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all. – Ephesians 4:4-6 One God and Father = God, the Father One Lord = God, the Son one Spirit = God, the Holy Spirit One God, yet Three Divine Persons Elect according to the foreknowledge of God the Father, through sanctification of the Spirit, unto obedience and sprinkling of the blood of Jesus Christ: Grace unto you, and peace, be multiplied. – 1 Peter 1:2 God the Father = God, the Father Jesus Christ = God, the Son Spirit = God, the Holy Spirit One God, yet Three Divine Persons And the four beasts had each of them six wings about him; and they were full of eyes within: and they rest not day and night, saying, Holy, holy, holy, Lord God Almighty, which was, and is, and is to come. – Revelation 4:8 The following Bible passages demonstrate that Jesus is God and that He is One with the Father as God. These verses do not teach the absurdity taught by apostates that Jesus Christ is His own Father as the same person. For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace. - Isaiah 9:6 Jesus Christ is the "everlasting Father" which means that He is the "father of eternity" or "source of eternity". No matter whoever or whatever else you may say Jesus Christ is the father of, you couldn't say, in any reasonable rationale, that He is the father of Himself. Though Jesus is God incarnate, He did not beget Himself. Jesus is the only-begotten of God the Father. And without controversy great is the mystery of godliness: God was manifest in the flesh, justified in the Spirit, seen of angels, preached unto the Gentiles, believed on in the world, received up into glory. - 1 Timothy 3:16 Nowhere does the Bible teach that God the Father was manifest in the flesh. The Bible does teach that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (1 John 4:2,3 & 2 John 1:7). Jesus Christ Himself is Deity together with His Father and the Holy Spirit. The three are one. For in him dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily. - Colossians 2:9 Jesus is not a part of God. Nor is He another god. The Father is fully God, the Son is fully God, the Holy Spirit is fully God. Together they are one God, not three gods. Ye are my witnesses, saith the LORD, and my servant whom I have chosen: that ye may know and believe me, and understand that I am he: before me there was no God formed, neither shall there be after me. I, even I, am the LORD; and beside me there is no saviour. - Isaiah 43:10-11 But hath in due times manifested his word through preaching, which is committed unto me according to the commandment of God our Saviour; To Titus, mine own son after the common faith: Grace, mercy, and peace, from God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ our Saviour. - Titus 1:3-4 God the Father is mentioned as Savior. Jesus Christ, who is God the Son, is mentioned as Savior. There are not two saviors. The two divine persons mentioned are together as One God and being together divinely as One Savior. Whosoever denieth the Son, the same hath not the Father: but he that acknowledgeth the Son hath the Father also. - 1 John 2:23 Since Jesus Christ is Deity, then to deny Him would be to deny His Father also as they two together are One God. Learn to be discerning and see through the disguises of the counterfeits. It is not the general practice for these so-called Apostolics to make as if all Christian churches, excluding their own, as apostate. Howbeit, this is the obvious conclusion to draw from what they have clung to as doctrine. Slowly, they do come around to eventually mention it when they believe others are ready for it. Other cults present true Christian churches as if false ones more readily. The tactic of a United Pentecostalist’s pretentious acceptance of other Christians has been an effective method of recruitment for them. A number of Christians have been deceived to think that they are but another Christian denomination, which they are not. Should you wish to investigate the United Pentecostal/Apostolic Church doctrine, we've provided these links to a few of their websites so that you may find out for yourself about their false teachings... http://www.upci.org/doctrine http://www.firstapostolic.net/our_belief.htm http://www.apostolic.net/biblicalstudies/onetrinreasondiffer.htm Pentecostal churches of evangelical faith, which profess the Holy Trinity, have all denounced these peculiar doctrines of the United Pentecostal church as false. The denomination of the United Pentecostal church is declared to be a cult. Sadly, this denouncement by Pentecostal denominations has not stopped the Jesus-onlyists from creeping into Pentecostal churches to spread their doctrine, gain for themselves position of authority as elders or deacons, then finally recruit others to leave and go to the cult U.P. church. This problem has spread to churches besides Pentecostal ones also. United Pentecostal young adults, in order to expand their pool of choices for dates beyond their isolated church group, may look for undiscerning young people of the opposite sex from a non U.P. church. A frequent choice of theirs is to seek among members of evangelical Pentecostal churches. Although this activity is not condoned by U.P. churches, it does not prevent them from being open to having more young people brought to their churches and swayed to their religion. Beware of young United Pentecostalists conducting their flirty fishing. If you are Trinitarian you might ask, “How do I stop these people from spreading their apostasy in my church? You do this by showing their doctrine as false, revealing true Biblical teaching from the Bible, and exposing United Pentecostalism as a cult just like any other which denies essential doctrines of Christendom. Remember that many of these people do not realize that they are in a cult. If they have been with a U.P. church for any length of time they will, however, know the odd contrary uniqueness of their church’s peculiar teaching. For some reason, they frequently believe that their doctrinal difference between them and others makes them God's special people above all others in spite of God's revealed word. Many analogies, based in human reasoning, have been forged by them in an attempt to sustain their mutual belief in an unbiblical and absurd formula of the nature of God. Giveaways that someone may be a Jesus-onlyist may be from their speech. If they say, “I don’t believe in a Trinity, per se.” Ask them what “per se” means. Be pointed with questions about the nature of God as Trinity. If they don’t really believe in the Trinity, then realize that they are not really true Christians per se either. “There is a need for a greater emphasis on baptism in the church”. Sounds good, but ask them why they believe this. Do they believe that water baptism is a salvation requirement and that it must be done in the name of “Jesus” only and not spoken also in the name of the Father and Holy Spirit? If so, you just found a wolf among the sheep. “Well, my church believes in holiness. I don’t see this taught in other churches.” Ask them what they believe holiness is. If they speak of a bunch of legalistic rules rather than a conformance to a real Christ-like lifestyle, then you’ve discovered a counterfeit. Watch out also for other speech implying as if saved people must speak in tounges. As the Apostle Paul asks in Scripture to expect a "no" for an answer... "Do all speak with tounges?" (1 Corinthians 12:30). Also, cautiously look out for those worried about believers’ salvation if they have not yet been water baptized. These cultists believe that God damns the unbaptized. Beware! For the bolder of the Apostolics are not ashamed to publicly denounce every other church group besides their own as corporately “The False Church”. The less bold declare this privately as they don’t want to offend people by their unholy religious exclusiveness. Salvation is a free gift received by all who place their complete and undivided trusting faith solely in God's true and only-begotten Son, Jesus Christ. As His Father was in heaven, Jesus came in person to the earth to pay the full penalty for our sins with His own precious blood so that we might believe in Him and receive the forgiveness of all of our sins. Neither tounge-speaking nor water baptism under any formula are salvation requirements. If you have been guilty of denying the true nature of God, then repent by placing your faith in Him as the Triune God. This is how He has revealed Himself in the Scriptures, in nature and through the ages. Renounce Him no more and stop clinging to the false and peculiar doctrine of this one United Pentecostal church which exalts itself over all other churches by teaching their own formula of God, twisting the message of who He truly is. In conclusion, let no man accuse any of us for not being in the love of God to profess which has been said in this article. For it is the love of God which constrains us to speak the truth about who He is in love. It is those who distort who God has revealed Himself as that deny the love of God. If we are esteemed by you to be in error for what has been said here, then you need to ask yourself what it is that you esteem as the truth. Be encouraged to hold in value God's true Holy nature. Declare God's disapproval of those who lie about Him, His Holy Spirit and His Son Jesus. God's only-begotten Son Jesus Christ is the truth. Love God supreme! Here are some helpful links concerning the spritual abuse of UPC. You will find testimonials of both UPCs and Ex-UPCs... ex-UPCIsupport http://b42.ezboard.com/bexpentecostalforums SpiritualAbuse.org SpritualAbuse.org This site deals with the issue of spiritual abuse in Bible-based churches, with a secondary focus on the United Pentecostal Church (UPC). These links have further informative material concerning the errors of Jesus Onlyism / Modalism... UPCI's Sixty Questions On The Godhead refuted! | ||
| Anonymous (208.28.223.56) |
69.41.129.72, thank you for your post. I don't understand why there is such div. in thought on this subject. From what I've read and understand of the bible there still seems to be just one God. If I take into account the description of trinity as you have described it I would have to believe in at least two distinct separate Gods. Jesus the Son and God the Father. I think the first chapter of John explains it best to me. Maybe there is just a difference between what you and I perceive as literal or figurative language portrayed in the Bible. I also hope that I do not "worship a false God" by praying to Jesus. If this is the case I am surely "damned." There are references to "doctrines of devils" in the Bible but I do not feel these apply to the UPC or most "oneness" beliefs. I don't think I've been to any "Harlot Churches" yet but I pray I'll know one when I see one. Since I don't attend any church I'll just say a small prayer before and continue to read for understanding. Again, thank you for taking the time to post. | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.54) |
United Pentecostal Church (UPCI)teach Modalism: UPC is an abbreviation for "UNITED PENTECOSTAL CHURCH" and is used throughout this document. The UPC is the only major denomination known to bear the torch of Sabellius’ 3rd century doctrine. So Modalism is primarily a discussion solely about the United Pentecostal church. Generally most reference to UPC are from, "The Oneness Of God", David K. Bernard, 1956, ISBN 0-912315-12-1 Think of a being that can "morphe", "shape shifter" from one form into another. There is only one being at any one time. Modalism views God as a being that has three different forms. Sometimes God exists in the "form" the "Father", sometimes the "Son", sometime the "Holy Spirit", BUT NEVER ALL THREE AT THE SAME TIME. The essential difference between Modalism and the Biblical trinity, is that in Modalism, the three members of the Godhood never exist at the same time and in Trinity, they always co-exist at the same time. Hence Modalism is defined in relation to Trinity as "Trinity where only one person of the Godhead exist at any one time" If the three modes of God are able to co-exist AT THE SAME TIME, then there is no essential difference with Modalism and Trinity doctrine. Now some Modalists, will disagree with our definition pointing to the fact that all three modes did indeed manifest themselves a the baptism of Jesus. Modalists do not consider such triadic manifestations as normal but exceptions. Modalists do, however, openly admit that the "role/mode" of the "Son" did not exist before the incarnation and it will cease at the second coming as per 1 Cor. 15:23-28. Modalists do teach that generally, God took the role of Father in the OT, the Son during Jesus life on earth, and the Holy Spirit during the "church age". We merely ask Modalist one question to prove the point: "Who was Jesus praying to?" Modalism, therefore, not only contradicts the Bible, it assaults common sense by destroying the utterly obvious distinction in persons between the Father and the Son. 1. The Son is not divine, but a created being with both beginning and end. 2.Holy Spirit is a person, but it seems they view the Holy Spirit is just the power of God rather than God himself. 3. They view God as one in number rather than one in unity 4. They wrongly view God as having 1 personality rather than three. 5. They believe that God changes forms or modes 6. They wrongly view "God" as a name rather than a designation for a class of being. Visual illustrations of Modalism: Explanation.... 1. God takes on three modes or roles. They appear to be three different men, but in fact they are the same man wearing different names and clothes only but inside it is the same man! A single man can be a cop, a construction worker and a judge! 2.Just like H2O can be water, vapour or ice and be the identical substance, so too with the Father, Son and Holy Spirit. 3.Egg illustration: Whereas, Trinity views God either as one egg with three parts (white, yolk and shell) or as three separate eggs, Modalists view God as one whole egg with three different names at different times. Modalists (UPC) Contradict themselves! Refuting Modalism: 1. Two Spirits in one body of Jesus. 2. Red and Blue letter Bibles! 3. Who was Jesus praying to? 4. Jesus had eternal pre-existence 5. Father sent the pre-existent Son 6. How could Jesus go to be with the Father? He would change "modes" and become the Father! 7. one office of a Person cannot go to be with another office of that Person 8. Who is on the throne? 9. Son on earth, Father in heaven 10. Son does what he sees Father doing 11. No man knows the day, even the son! 12. Son Sent of the Father 13. The Son is with the Father 14. Two Witnesses 15. Plural use 16. Conversations Between Persons In The Godhead? 17. Another Comforter 18. Are Jesus And The Father One In Purpose Only? 1. Modalism is an ancient heresy on the nature of God dating back to the 3rd century. Today, the United Pentecostal Church (UPC) is the sole proponent of this heresy. The United Pentecostal Church has a reputation of forcing its members into blindly towing the "party line" under the threat of disfellowship, do not allow their members the freedom of independent thinking. You will find trying to teach a UPC the error of Modalism to be as unfruitful as trying to teach a Jehovah’s Witness the truth about blood transfusions. Both these groups believe their doctrines are directly confirmed to be true by the Holy Spirit and are totally closed minded and blind to truth! 2. Like all false doctrine, it must invent wild and ridiculous "companion doctrines" to explain the main false doctrine. Just as Catholics have invented the companion doctrine of the "immaculate conception of Mary" in order to explain how Jesus did not inherit the sin of Adam (inherited sin = Total Depravity, "T" in TULIP of Calvinism) so also the UPC (United Pentecostal Church) has invented the companion doctrine that Jesus was a man with two distinct spirits inhabiting his one fleshly body. In order to explain away the most obvious distinction in the three members of the God (trinity) they invent one of the most unbiblical and just plain silly doctrines known on earth, namely that Jesus had two spirits: 1. the eternal divine spirit of God 2. the human spirit of a man. Kind of like a split personality in one body. Hence when Jesus was praying, it was the human spirit praying to the Divine spirit IN THE SAME BODY! He was basically praying to himself! 3. Two of the most heretical aspects of Modalism is first, that Jesus Christ had no pre-existence before his incarnation. They take the identical "logos-theology" view that the Christadelphians teach! And second, that the divine spirit left the human spirit at the cross and that ONLY HUMAN BLOOD was shed for man, God really didn’t die for man. A mere human died for man! 4. The error of modalistic monarchianism is in blindly focusing on the ONENESS of God passages, holding to a strict undefendable definition of oneness to the exclusion of the mass of Biblical proof of the distinction of God. United Pentecostals, like Sabellius focus solely on the oneness passages (Deut 6:4 & Jn 10:38) to the exclusion of the wealth of scripture that shows the oneness of God is best understood in terms of unity rather than a specific number!. "His central proposition was to the effect that Father, Son and Holy Spirit are the same person, three names thus being attached to one and the same being. What weighed most with Sabellius was the monotheistic [oneness passages] interest." ("Sabellius," Encyclopedia Britannica, XIX, 791.) 5. The Bible evidence is stacked AGAINST Modalists at about 20 to 1! The reason United Pentecostals continue to hold to the ridiculous doctrine of Modalism, is because they are deluded into thinking that the Holy Spirit is performing manifestations like tongues and modern day prophecy. Indeed! They believe that unless the Holy Spirit has made each one of them speak in tongues, THEY ARE NOT SAVED! So the prophetic word of the pastors affirming that Modalism is correct, overrides the obvious falseness of the doctrine of Modalism! They are swayed more by what their "spirit-filled preacher" says than the word of God! "How can we be wrong, when we have the Holy Spirit guiding us?" they reason. Of course Jehovah’s Witnesses, Mormons and 7th day Adventists make the same claims of the Holy Spirit’s guiding them! The Bible says they are wrong! 6. In the end, Modalists (United Pentecostal Church) are hardened ANTI-TRINITARIANS and enemies of truth. They are theologically close kin to Jehovah’s Witnesses and Christadelphians often using the identical arguments to defeat "Trinitarians". After the second coming, all three of these groups have the identical view of God and Christ namely, they have the "one true God" and a human (who did not exist before the incarnation) named Jesus Christ co-existing for all future eternity. 7. Modalists teach: "We must remember that the Son is not the same as the Father. The title Father never alludes to humanity, while Son does. Although Jesus is both Father and Son, we cannot say the Father is the Son." UPC. So Modalists make a clear distinction between Father and Son, just like Trinitarians and Arians do. They have created a doctrine with false distinctions within the being of Jesus. (two spirits in one body) 8. The Son was sent from God as a man, not as God: "God sent forth his Son, made of a woman" (Galatians 4:4)." UPC. Refuting Modalism: Who is on the throne? 1. Rev 5:21 ‘He who overcomes, I will grant to him to sit down with Me on My throne, as I also overcame and sat down with My Father on His throne. ( How can Jesus sit down WITH the Father on His throne if Jesus changed modes and became the Father? Notice that WE will sit down with Jesus EVEN AS Jesus sat down with the Father. Does this mean that we will change modes and become Jesus? I think not! Modalism is false doctrine)! 2. Rev 5:6 And I saw between the throne (with the four living creatures) and the elders a Lamb standing, as if slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God, sent out into all the earth. 7 And He came, and He took it out of the right hand of Him who sat on the throne. ( How Could Jesus take anything out of the Hand of God if JESUS IS THE SAME PERSON AS GOD??? Notice that Jesus is pictured as a lamb standing and the Father is sitting on the throne. Modalists are forced to have the human spirit of Jesus co-existing in heaven with the divine spirit of God.) 3. Rev 5:13 "To Him who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb, be blessing and honor and glory and dominion forever and ever." (Clearly two distinct beings are pictured here. Modalism is false doctrine!) 4. Jn 16:19 So then, when the Lord Jesus had spoken to them, He was received up into heaven, and sat down at the right hand of God (If Modalism is true, then the Holy Spirit misled us! Jesus wouldn’t sit down at the right hand of the Father, he changed modes and became the Father!) | ||
| Anonymous (208.28.223.53) |
In using Biblical scripture alone it seems that either Trinitarian or Oneness believers can make a strong case for doctrinal beliefs...back to the original question..."Heresy, Harlot Church, worshipping a false god, Sick, Scum, Dirt Bag, Cult?" Is this the Church at Corinth giving the Church at Colosse correction or reproof, or vice versa? Have we not all come short of the Glory of God?...and still don't both seek Jesus?... | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.218) |
I'd say UPC is a harlot because she teaches another truth unto salvation. An outward dress one at that! So in my book I'd say yes, she a harlot! | ||
| OneGod (164.58.153.153) |
Well, this has been interesting to read. But, I must say that the UPC is NOT the only demonination or organization to teach belief in ONE God. There are several others. Some of those include: Apostolic Church of Jesus Christ Internation, Inc. (ACJCII), Apostolic Ministers Fellowship (AMF), Assemblies of the Lord Jesus Christ (ALJC), and several others. As far as belief in ONE God being a heresy . . .until the 3rd century the only thing taught (unless one was a pagan) was belief in ONE almighty God. Search the history. It's there. When the bible was being translated into English and other languages, the word "even" was changed to "and." This explains 90% of the problem. Take for instance a scripture that says, "Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father and the Lord Jesus Christ" (Colossians 1:2). If one were to read this the original way it would say "Grace be unto you, and peace, from God our Father EVEN the Lord Jesus Christ." Makes more sense now, huh? Now, if one disregards this explanation, then one has to consider scriptures such as Ephesians 5:20 which says, "giving thanks always for all things unto God AND the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ." Now, are God and the Father two separate beings? If so, there must be FOUR Gods: God, God the Father, Jesus, & the Holy Ghost. Hmmmm. That's food for thought, now isn't it? So, the bottom line is one has to allow for an interpretation of scripture in which each scripture is true and not contradictory. This interpretation has been provided for us in the teaching of ONE God by the apostles and carried on by our forefathers. Now, for another matter. . . . the idea that the UPC or any other Oneness organization is a cult is absolutely ludicrous. No one is MADE to do anything. No one's power is "taken away." Pastors ENCOURAGE their members to read the Bible for themselves, not to just take his word for it. I'm Oneness and proud to be. I've read the Bible and am convinced that Jesus is the ONE TRUE LIVING GOD!!! | ||
| robert (134.68.175.169) |
http://www.geocities.com/ministryofdreams/ end time visions and dreams from Jesus | ||
| Donna Simpson (64.12.117.20) |
I consider it a honor to be baptized in the name of JESUS!!!!!!!I love the lord with my whole hart and I want to be like him.Just as a wife takes her husbands name to idenifiy her as his wife that she belongs to him.Even if the whole book of Acts didnt call for the church to be baptized this way I stii would because I want to be part of his bride.The Lord considers his chuch his bride so if we are his bride we should take his name like we would on a earthly marrage Acts238Donna@aol.com Let me know if you have any ? | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.203) |
I consider it a honor to be baptized in the name of JESUS!!!!!!!I love the lord with my whole hart and I want to be like him. That's all fine, but are you like him? I'd have to say UPCer's are not like him (Jesus). You are UPC, you are of man! You are keeper's are the Law of Jews! Not Grace~ | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.209) |
By Brother Johnny... I believe that People are afaird us or Persecute us becouse we are Differant. Nope, we are not afarid of you, nor do we persecute you people because your differant! We do these things because your teaching is straight out of "hell!" You people have twisted the word into a great lie. May God have mercy on your soul on the day of judgment, for leading people away from Him with your flase outward teachings and keeping of the laws of Jews! YOU ARE FAKES AND DO NOT LOVE AS JESUS TAUGHT! YOU ARE A HARLOT CHURCH! | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.209) |
Brother Johnny...it,s hard to even find a women that knows truly how to cook! they make their husbands take them out most of the time or throw something frozen in the oven and open up a can of something elese and call it dinner! Well, are you doing your job? Are you providing for your family so your wife can stay home? Not many men will shoulder all this burden, so the wife must work and then come home to a second job of cleaning and feeding her family. All the while the man comes home sit on his butt, his job over! Sorry but women today will not put up with this crap or your type! Get real, until men behave as men and do their parts as God command's of them, provider of the family, will you better get use to women telling you to get your own dinner and where to go! Yes men have become like women~ | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.209) |
Brother Johnny... Well my Brother if your Pentecostal you know good and well just what we stand for, and we don,t force anyone to come to our Churches or dress or act like us we do it by our own chooce, Yes, it's called legalism Phariseeism, we know what you stand for. And lastly, you guys do enforce your holy outward dress standards, it's called conformity, if we don't conform to your standards, then we're not allowed to partake of any church doings. So please already you people are such liars it's sick! | ||
| Anonymous (69.41.129.210) |
Warning "oneness" Church a Cult & Threat to Christianity! http://www.celticpandc.com/warning-united.pentacostal.html This church is also plagued with various legalistic doctrines to which members MUST adhere. This is done in order for the members of the Church to Judge them as Christian in GOOD STANDING and be even considered a Christian. One of these I find totally out of place in the Church today and the note that women are "a lesser vessel."Many of these standards have also been developed only since the early 1900's .i.e. You are not a Christian if you do not Speak in Tongues, Women must wear their hair Long and no Jewellery and makeup. They teach that unless you're baptized using the correct formula....theirs!....you're not really saved. One must ask the pastor for almost anything and any decision in life. (many of these things verge on the thinking of a Cult-I dare say that the Bible and Jesus never made specific clothing and the way you wear your hair a demand. This conforming to what everyone else is doing in the church is DANGEROUS.)I must ask that the person think that only our God has a right to Judge us as Christian or not! To be a Christian must one check their brain at the door of the church? The UPCI thinks so! (they are false teachers and prey on the human nature of man!.)...How? Answer: The apostle Peter wrote describing Paul's epistles, "...in which are some things hard to be understood, which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, as they do also the other scriptures, unto their own destruction" (2 Peter 3:16).I believe that there are many individual powerful practices which characterize the methods of deception employed by false teachers. The twisting of Scripture is universal among them. Few, if any, people go into a cult or aberrant religious movement by reading the Bible alone! They must have some help from false teachers. These false teachers must come to terms with the authority of Scripture. They deal deceptively with this issue in several ways. (the UPCI fails to see that Jesus himself says that all of his authority comes from the Father and that he is dependent on the Father) For instance, one approach is to give respect to the Bible but teach that it cannot be fully trusted. (this the UPCI does in taking on the King James Version of the Bible which is a Transliteration of the Bible not a direct translation. They brush off versions like the RSV which is a translation as it was written according to them by "liberals." So far I have not seen the reason they are liberals! They feel that the K.J. VERSION is the only one that supports their position on the church and all outside extra-Biblical study and Creeds are just that of men and are not to be studied. They miss quote scholars etc.) ,They teach for example that books must have been lost or that texts were altered.(the UPCI feels that the resurrection story as told by the Gospel and the great commission to go out and Baptize in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost was added scripture) Bible verse is sprinkled liberally in the books to make it appear that the student is studying the Bible. The result is that the Bible is really only being used as a reference book. One can make the Bible prove anything used in this manner. This approach is typical of the Society of Jehovah's Witnesses.The Bible warns about these tactics as Paul compares his true ministry to the false apostles', "But have renounced the hidden things of dishonesty, not walking in craftiness, nor handling the word of God deceitfully..." (2 Corinthians 4:2). Describing the methods and motives of the false prophets and teachers, Peter says that,"many shall follow their pernicious ways; by reason of whom the way of truth shall be evil spoken of. And through covetousness shall they with feigned words make merchandise of you..." (2 Peter 2:2-3). How does this happen? I believe the average church member is conditioned for it. Rather than follow God's direction and "Study to show thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth" (2 Timothy 2:15), the average Christian's approach is to expect others to teach them. This leaves the door open to a false leader to by use of orthodox wrapping have a gift of the word inside that is no longer holding to scripture, but that of the opinion of the leader or others. Sometimes this comes from reading the Bible in a literal sense in modern thought rather than consulting what it meant in 1st Century thought. Additionally, there has been of a lack of emphasis on teaching sound, foundational doctrine in the church. Again, God warns His church concerning this (Ephesians 4:11-15; Colossians 2:6-7). Christians must learn to feed themselves as well as give attention to the sound, established, systematic doctrine that has stood the test of time and solid scholarship. (The Orthodox church has withstood the test of time! (The UPCI contend that they are the only ones that are going to heaven-Do you not see something wrong here?) The UPCI counts on the fact that most Christians are not familiar with Greek and Hebrew nor the way to study the Scriptures with objective study helps They do not feel that they should directly look at the words in terms of the period they were spoken but it is right to translate them for today directly.(they even come to the aide of this by officially prohibiting their followers from reading books by scholars that have studied the Bible.) Many do not even read a whole book in the Bible through for its intended context. Therefore, when a false teacher comes with a plausible argument and presents what appears to be a scholarly approach, the novice is impressed. (This to me is a form of Brainwashing in that they have captured the disciple with somewhat orthodox teaching and then the disciple does not any longer question what is stated.) They also use this to say that you will not be happy or have salvation if you leave this church. They will shun you at the store or on the street. It is a way of playing with your mind. They make you feel that they are the only way that the sins they concentrate on are able to be forgiven is if you remain in the cult. They thus twist Scripture through pseudo-scholarship, by deleting and inserting words, by focusing on texts out-of context, and by employing collapsing contexts (unrelated verses put together to say something different).I encourage the Christian to become a student of God's word. The truth of God's Word working with the illuminating and empowering Holy Spirit transforms the Christian into how he is intended to experience life, being conformed to His image.Jesus prayed "Sanctify them through thy truth: thy word is truth" (John 17:17). | ||
| Anonymous (198.81.26.106) |
I thank God for the Holy Ghost that saved me!!! If you seek the Spirit of the Lord, and truly repent(as the bible does say to do),read it, He will be true to His word. All that matters is to have love for the Lord with all our hearts, minds, and souls, and love each other as ourselves. If we do that we WILL obey God for He alone is Lord, and everyone, no matter what denomination, religion, organization,church name,etc., will fall down and declare He is Lord, in judgement. We All fall short of the glory of the Lord. But, He DID die for us, to save us from our iniquity. Seek the Holy Ghost, God can clarify any of your doubts,questions,and support you through anything. God made the world by speaking words, and did make man out of the dirt, and woman out of the rib of Adam. God is Almighty and Powerful. We should fear no one but Him and obey no one but Him. And when the bible says "fear" it is not to sit there and be afraid to talk to the Lord, but to respect and honor Him. He LOVES US! More than anything! But, he hates our sin! Understand that even the devil believes in one God and trembles. He is the final word. Search the scriptures. No one can speak to your heart and change you but the word of God. For in John 1:1 says, In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. God Bless You All, I pray that you find peace and happiness, and eternal life in Christ. | ||
| Anonymous (24.70.178.211) |
can anyone help me find info on Pastor charles roberts a PENTACOSTAL pastor who has ripped my child from my arms,my life,my world. | ||
| Anonymous (24.119.204.155) |
I wish some of you " Pentecostal " people would give a testimony in your church that pentecostal people are seen as " rude " ," judgemental ", and just plain ole evil in personal behaviors. All people of the Most High are supposed to be positive representatives of the Kingdom. You are supposed to " attract " people , not detract. | ||
| Anonymous (24.119.204.155) |
PENTA costal Penta means 5 usually associated with witchcraft. Penta gram. The church has roots in masonic background | ||
| jane (jane) New member Username: jane Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.122.254.210 |
Wow. I can't believe all of the negativity I feel on this post. I currently attend a UPC church (I have for 7 yrs), and I have never experienced ANY of the things I've read in my church. Maybe my church is a rare exception, but I don't think so-I've visited several local UPC churches and never heard nothing like that either. If anyone has been hurt by the UPC in the past, I apologize. At my church though, we don't condemn ANYONE to hell. We accept everyone, and we have never said that only women wearing skirts or going to heaven-that is ridiculous! And to be honest, I have never heard such rude comments from other christians as I have on this site. My church really isn't a cult. We do believe in Oneness (as it's called), but it is biblical. It was the only thing taught up until 325 AD. I would never make such rude and vulgar comments (Some posts say 'UPC is a harlot church!")-and I don't really think God would either. I would never, ever call anyone's church that. Who am I to judge? And the word 'Pentecostal' comes from the Feast of Pentecost of Judaism-it was not founded in a masonic background. Many other churches that are non-UPC are considered Pentecostal, none of these churches are from masonic backgrounds. They all share this name due to the Azusa revival of the early 1900s-it was like the day of Pentecost, hence the name Pentecostal. Just though I'd clear that up. May God bless everyone on this site as we continue to serve Him. Jane | ||
| 69thstreet (69thstreet) New member Username: 69thstreet Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 137.3.122.49 |
I have a question for all. Yes or no does one have to speak in tounges to be saved? | ||
| missionary (missionary) New member Username: missionary Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.73.90.66 |
a cult is formed when any form of leadership head pulls its people away from the truth knowingly or not. The bible states the TRUTH shall set you free and therefor anyone who does not have the truth is not free. | ||
| dl1957 (dl1957) New member Username: dl1957 Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.241.33.2 |
I would like to know this also. "Yes or no, does one have to speak in tonges to be saved? And why do some believe that "speaking in tongues "is just speaking in another language such as french or spanish, where as others believe its a sort of and please excuse me for my choice of wording 'but a sort of babbling that we cant cant understand, and finally, 'this speaking in tongues, when someone does it, the bible says its to only be 2 to 3 people at a time doing it, and someone is suppose to interpert to others what is being said, so if someone goes to a church and there are more than 2 or 3 people "speakiing in tongues" does that mean its not from god but from satan? | ||
| dead2self (dead2self) New member Username: dead2self Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 65.4.144.45 |
I stumbled across this sight after typing in UPCI youth activitys in the search bar and just wept after reading a few entries. I am one of those mindless brainwashed females of which many have spoken of through out this sight. But hey you bash all of us poor indoctrinated, helpless women for our good and in love of course right? Let me just inform you that no man forces or degrades me and causes me to dress anyway or belief anyway. It's not brainwashing but something deep inside that was not uncommon long ago, a thing called conviction. I read GOD's word, seek understanding from my precious Savior and pray each day. I do not condemn others without convictions and yet they condemn me for having convictions. I will not be intimidated by others who mock and ridicule for instance my uncut hair (it's not about length by the way) for I do this with conviction. Go to any given mall and you will see purple mow hawks, green spiked hair and stars shaved into scalps... and yet uncut hair to you is cultic and offensive. I fail to understand the logic here. Let's move on to the way I dress. I wear dresses and skirts below the knees. Oh my what a shock and poor me right? Look at your history. My Grandmother who had no belief in God wore the same, as did women in the 30's and 40's. Back then a woman wearing pants was unheard of. But apart from that why does it bother you that I desire to please my LORD in this way? This is my conviction from what I read in the word of God. I read that it was an abomination to God for a woman to wear that which pertaineth to a man. In the society I live in that meant to me that GOD wanted me to wear something not pertaining to a man and pants are from history's stand point in the USA considered men's attire. I am not asking you to share my convictions only asking that you treat me as you would wish to be treated. As for the terrible UPCI church of which you speak, let me just say the UPCI is only the ship I ride in and if they sould ever stray from the written word of GOD, I would jump ship and find another church that holds true to Gods word. As to wide spread child abuse. OH MY! If raising children to have strong convictions, morals and good manners is abuse I am guilty of your claims. I raised a beautiful daughter in the UPCI who was taught the word of God and shares many of my convictions. But some convictions she has alone that I do not share. She was not raised with a TV, never attended movies, and yet the poor deprived child graduated high school early with a 4.0, attends Bible college with a 4.0, works in soup kitchens feeding the homeless, works in Jesus houses with underprivileged children, goes to a nursing home on Sunday afternoons, and everyone who meets her never forgets her love for people or her love for her GOD. She is just beautiful within and without. Many young men desire her hand and have courted her and yet she has never been kissed or knew a man before taking her vows. You say poor her but I believe our GOD looks down and is pleased with a young lady who is willing to die out to herself and please her GOD above herself and men. I have a Son also, he is happily married, attends bible college, has given his life to the work of GOD, works with troubled teens, and preaches under the anointing power of GOD. When he was little he would not hit others who hit him because he said, "Mama I just don't want to hurt anyone." He is humble and giving. He does not wear certain clothing or jewelry or watch TV because of his convictions, yet he would never bash or look down on the teens he works with who have holes in many parts of their bodies and who come to him with minds filled with terrible images from Hollywood and hearts broken from troubled homes riddled with abuse.He chooses rather to show them compassion and love. You want to bash the UPCI as a whole and every person in the UPCI church's and then scream love love love at the same time. All I can figure is that when you call the UPCI a cult you must not truly know the church I came to love 20 yrs ago. Every denomination has it's faults a failures and they all have people who attend who really just don't take living for God serious and hurt others. I have a sister-in-law who is in the Baptist faith and yet as a child she was molested by a Baptist minister. There are people in all faiths who just hurt others and care only for themselves. Let's stop the blame game if you have been hurt in a UPCI church. You are throwing out the baby with the bath water and that's ludicrous. I have been in the UPC church for over 20 years and my life has been so very rewarding. Yes I've been hurt before but I get up and seek GOD for understanding and let Him fight my battles. Morning, noon and night I weep for souls and pray. I am not perfect , abused or brainwashed, I am just totally sold out to JESUS the lover of my soul. Pleasing Him means more to me then what anyone thinks of me in this world. I know God is real because he has healed me and my children so many times. When we went to our doctor and he gave no cure or hope, JESUS offered me what the doctor could not.Yes I go to doctors but where they failed me JESUS never has. Doctors can only do so much. Back to convictions... after what JESUS did for me anything He opens up to me in His word and ask out of me would never be to much to ask . This world calls my convictions bondage how far from the truth. What a claim for a world to make, they do so to cover up the terrible bondage they really offer. In JESUS I found true freedom. Freedom to choose. Unlike this world that made me feel I had to dress this way or that way to be accepted, unlike the world that enslaved me in addictions and convinced me that to be female I had to deck myself in jewels, paint my face and walk around half naked in order to be attractive. JESUS offered me true beautiful from the inside out. I no longer have to wear a mask. I'm happy and free. Some of you here slander me, the church I attend and my family with your letters. You speak of horrible things but let me speak of the good you over look because of just a few bad apples in a big barrel of good. I am the proud Mama of a very beautiful, 19 year old daughter, raised to love JESUS and people. This poor little abused child had no TV growing up, wore dresses, no make up and read good literature because of her own convictions, went to Africa on missions at age 16, London with AP Lit glass at age 15, graduated high school early at age 17 with a 4.0, attends bible college with a 4.0, on Saturday feeds the hungry in soup kitchens, on Fridays helps at Jesus houses with underprivileged kids, on Sunday ministers to the elderly in a nursing home and everyone she comes in contact with sees JESUS alive in her. Her time and efferts are spent on the people you say she looks down on. Her actions are enough to discredit your claims. I also have a son who attends bible college, ministers to troubled teens, is happily married and as a little boy after being asked why he didn't hit two boys back who hurt him said, "Mama I just don't want to hurt anyone." He is humble and giving. Both my kids spend their lives unselfishly for others so that bitter self centered people can come on a message board and bash them. While they are out loving a hurting world and doing something to show the love of GOD to others you have nothing better to do then to sit behind a screen and speak bitter words of hate. Ridicule me and my faith if you choose but I ask you how many Mamas today can say they have children who love others and give their lives to show them the love of JESUS. When you give as much of your life to the work of God and to others as these two brainwashed young people who were raised in the UPC church do then you won't have time for this banter. You speak of hateful things but most of what you speak is untrue. Many people in the UPCI are so very happy, love God, study his word, try earnestly to live above reproach and love souls above themselves. I do not judge those who own TVs, women who wear pants, make up or jewelry. On the other hand many do judge me for not having a TV, for wearing a dress and for my convictions. I think people just need to stop this pointless finger pointing, die out to the flesh and live for GOD. Most of what I read here is so very self centered. Dead men can't be offered by anything another does, let's do a little dying out to ourselves. MT 10:39 I am sorry if I sound angry, I am not. I solely wanted to express that things are not always what they seem. Every church you do not personally agree with is not wrong or a cult. If you were wronged by someone the bible teach you sould love those who hurt you and to pray for those who despitefully use you. That is putting GOD and others above self. When you can do that you are truly dead to the flesh yet alive in Christ. Now that I've said all that, I can get back to surfing pages again for youth activity ideas. My husband and I take time out to love young ladies and young men and teach them morals and values in hopes that they will become people who love GOD and others above themselves. We show them according to GOD's word that they can be free from the bondage of this world. Free from drugs, alcohol, premarital sex and the pain of broken homes and lives through the power of the Holy Ghost. You call the UPCI a cult but I came to know this faith as a place where one can go and know true freedom. After 20 years living a selfless life it just gets sweeter and sweeter as the days roll by. Our GOD is so GOOD! | ||
| penetcostalreligionproudly (penetcostalreligionproudly) New member Username: penetcostalreligionproudly Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 63.21.13.164 |
I am appauled at the harsh judgements against the pentecostal religion. I am a Christian, and Pentecostal. My Grandfather and Grandmother founded a Pentescostal Church, "Community Holiness Church". And I assure you that it is not a cult. We do not believe that if you don't speak in tongues that you don't get into heaven (that is a terrible stereotype). I have not been blessed with the Grace of speaking in tonuges and it does not mean that I am any less of a believer than anyone else of Pentecostal religion or any other religion. My Grandfather was one of the most well-respected Deacons and a very good man. He would never judge anyone (no matter what their religion) and I am hurt that any of you would judge anyone or any religion just because it does not suit you. What kind of religion do you have that teaches you to be harsh and judge God's childern? Maybe you should all educate yourselves and have a little more faith in yourself and accept other's as they are and learn not to be racist and stereotype other religions because you don't understand them or you don't have strong faith. A cult! NOT! Why would you suggest a thing? And brainwashed? That is funny. So, I guess if the religion doesn't fit into your daily lives then you find a way to criticize it and stereotype it so that you can justify your lifestyle and judgements? Is Catholics, Jews, Protestants, Baptist, and etc, cults too because they are not all the same and have different ways of worshiping God? And since when is receiving the gift from God to speak in tongues a bad thing, or a cult thing? I see it as a blessing from God and I am sure God will forgive your judgements. By the way, my husband is Catholic and we respect each others religion and do not judge because we both believe in God. Also, it is a big misconception that you are told you will go to hell if you don't dress a certain way and so on. Of course, like most religions Pentecostal does believe you should respect yourself in the eyes of the Lord. And Pentecostal does go by the Bible. You think we don't read the Bible and practice its teachings. That is what we do. Anyone is welcomed in our Church without judgement. My Grandfather's children and family were not all church goers and they were not treated like outsiders to the family, and they were not judged. They were loved like everyone else. Since, when is believing in God and practicing religion a cult? I dont think that God is in Heaven looking down and saying "Well, they are Pentecostal, and even though they pray, believe, and rely on their faith, I don't think they are worthy of my love and they are a cult because others have misjudged them and stereotyped them, so that makes them unworthy of entering the Kingdom of Heaven. We do not sacrifice animals, people, unwelcome you in God's temple? Do we not have faith and pray to the same God? You don't have ask permission from the Church to do as you please. You may wish to seek spiritual advice from your Deacon or Pastor, but it is not mandatory. And you can ask our church Deacon and his wife anything about religion or life and they will answer your questions to the best of their ability, and if they are not sure of the answer, they will pray for the answer with you. | ||
| warweary_soldier (warweary_soldier) New member Username: warweary_soldier Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 214.13.6.78 |
Hey All, I have been fellowshipping with UPC for about ten years. I have finally decided to let it go. I have wanted to leave for a long time, but couldn't. First of all, nobody wants to go to hell, and this is a real fear, even now, that I have. I want to go to the right church so I can go to Heaven. But as I type this, I realize that thought process is false. I also felt there would be too many people discouraged by my decision to leave UPC. I was always jumping, leaping and praising God on the front row. People would always come up and tell me how much my praise and worship would motivate them to praise God. I was glad for that and wanted God to get the glory, not me. After a while I got irritated at the compliments. I just got tired of them. If they knew me, the way I really was and the sin I had been fighting, and falling to and fighting and then falling more to and then fighting again, they would not talk to me. They would not think I was saved. I knew this because I knew their attitudes concerning the very sin in my life. I wasn't really sure if my reasons for leaving were valid because so many other folks who had a much better relationship with God than I seemed to be doing well, living by the "standards" that I never agreed with. I believed that if I kept trying and that if I simply would say, "Yes" to God and do everything everyone else was doing wholeheartedly, that I would not have the sin problem any more. What made it most difficult for me to leave all of this time is the secret sin that has been in my life for so long. I knew that I was going to hell anyway, except for making it back to God's House to repent for giving in to my addictions, that I nurtured myself. I also realized I could repent at home and did so often. I also read my Bible, but my prayer and Bible reading time was never set in stone. And when it was, I didn't stay consistent. But I would long for the moment I could throw myself at the feet of Jesus Christ on the altar in weeping and tears. I wanted to tell Him at home, in my car and on the altar that I was sorry and that I didn't want to do no more. I could not wait to get back into "His Presence" in praise and worship, so that I could tell Him how much I loved Him, ask Him for forgiveness, and dance my way to a victory that I believed --each time-- would be the victory of all victories, once and for all, this sin is gone! And so, I wanted to keep God in my life, while everything else around me crumbled. This is how I knew God, and all I knew. I don't know much more now except that I want to develop my integrity with God. I found that while attending the UPC, it was all to easy to hide my sins from everyone else. In fact it was paramount that I did so. I was lonely in the hiding and would have been ostracized in the public confession. The liberty I had to praise God, well they would not have allowed it. They would have thought I was demon possessed or just plain cursed because of my actions at church, and addiction away. The standard stuff, I never agreed with, wholeheartedly. But I prayed to God that if this is what it takes to be closer to You, I would do anything to be closer to You. It was a deeply moving experience. But now I am seeking the change of a lifetime. Deeply moving experiences are awesome. But I want those and more. I don't want religion and hypocrisy. I saw that in myself and began to see it in others. Not so much with sin as much as with the "standards" and the application of them in some people's lives. Not everyone in the UPC live "standards" the same way, which in my mind only weakens the argument for them in the first place, the argument that without such "standards" you will no to Heaven. There is a basic truth in the concept of the Holy Spirit modifying the clothes, music, activities of Christians -- but not in the legalistic way I have seen and heard it prsented. I want Jesus Christ, more than anyone or anything else. In my pursuit of Jesus Christ, I say goodbye to the UPC. It is a painful goodbye, but it is a necessary good bye. I'll try not to be too bitter and I'll try not to be too sad. But I have to go now. So long. Email me if there is anyone out there who has a word of advice or any encouragement as I feel so far from home. I am learning how to walk, all over again. living1399@yahoo.com | ||
| amato (amato) New member Username: amato Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 216.81.99.121 |
I am sorry but religion and hypocrisy go together. What passes off as Christianity today is a farce. The truth lies in the Word of God but be careful of the translation you use. Most commonly used versions are rife with mis-interpretation of the original Greek and Hebrew words. It seems to me that most of them are written to support man's theology instead of basing theology on the Word of God, SCRIPTURE. Do not be concerned about going to hell my friend because there is not any place like the burning pits that Christianity teaches. Do a Greek and Hebrew word study on the words hades and sheol and find out what they really mean. This is just the tip of the iceberg. Relax, God is in control of it all and it is His will that none will perish(numerous verses). I believe God can carry out His will do'nt you? The Scriptures cannot be raked merely on the surfice but mined as for gold. Dig deep my brother and let God guide you in all truth. Check everything against the Scriptures using a good translation, concordance and all the power of the net to mine the truth. It truly is more valuable than gold. Remember God is all powerful, His will be done and it is plainly stated that it is His will that none will perish and I for one am foolish enough to believe it. How about you? | ||
| infoman (infoman) Intermediate Member Username: infoman Post Number: 125 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.175.179.251 |
warweary_soldier and others.. Living in a garage does not make you a car. Going to the right church does not make you a Christian. Putting your faith and trust in Gods love... RELATIONSHIP with God comes from your accepting the finished work of Jesus and fellowshipping through the Holy Spirit and God's word. "God has given you All things that pertain to Life and Godliness Through the KNOWLEDGE of Him" Knowledge of God's word gives you wisdom... and knowing who your are in Christ and being a doer not just a hearer of God's word and will help you know what God's will is for you. God's word is God's will. | ||
| amato (amato) New member Username: amato Post Number: 10 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 216.81.99.91 |
Infoman, The finished work of Jesus Christ. The knowledge of that finished work is all there is to it. Well said infoman! | ||
| rockin4jesus (rockin4jesus) New member Username: rockin4jesus Post Number: 7 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.0.143.200 |
I wont say that the united pentecostal church is a cult, but I do believe they are modern day pharisees... Galatians 2:21-3:3 I do not frustrate the grace of God: for if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain. O foolish Galatians, who hath bewitched you, that ye should not obey the truth, before whose eyes Jesus Christ hath been evidently set forth, crucified among you? This only would I learn of you, Received ye the Spirit by the works of the law, or by the hearing of faith? Are ye so foolish? having begun in the Spirit, are ye now made perfect by the flesh? Please read the whole book of Galatians, as all the other books in the bible. My point, Making holiness a dress standard, makes Christ and his death upon the cross of no effect... For do we persuade men or God... Search your own hearts... If you desire to be under the law then you are endepted to do the whole law... Galatians 5:3-5 For I testify again to every man that is circumcised, that he is a debtor to do the whole law. Christ is become of no effect unto you, whosoever of you are justified by the law; ye are fallen from grace. For we through the Spirit wait for the hope of righteousness by faith. Here the apostle is addressing the issue of circumcision, and it applies to all trivial matters... I agree with the United Pentecostal Church on the subject of Oneness, Baptizm, and the Holy Ghost... But these other area's are UPCI rules, and they put them even before the bible... YOU HAVE BY YOUR TRADITIONS MADE THE LAWS OF GOD OF NO EFFECT... Woe unto you you scribes and pharisees!!!! | ||
| rockin4jesus (rockin4jesus) New member Username: rockin4jesus Post Number: 8 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.0.143.200 |
MATTHEW 23:25 WOE unto you, SCRIBES and PHARISEES, hypocrites! for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but within they are full of extortion and excess. MATTHEW 23:27 WOE unto you, SCRIBES and PHARISEES, hypocrites! for ye are like unto whited sepulchres, which indeed appear beautiful outward, but are within full of dead men's bones, and of all uncleanness. just like the pharisees of Jesus' day, they believe that Holiness is on the outside... Holiness comes from within, you cannot start on the outside. You error not knowing the scriptures..... Challenge everyone, Challenge every preacher, every Christian, every church... Read your bible and pray, God will reveal his truth in you, if you hunger for truth you will be filled... | ||
| amato (amato) New member Username: amato Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 216.81.99.61 |
rockin4jesus: Even most of the Bible translation today are rife with mis-interpretation. One glaring example: the words sheol and hades(synonomous for unseen), gehennah(the valley of Hinnom)and tartaros((abyss) are all translated in the King James Version as hell. Why would an intelligent translator translate three different words into one. In the Webster's Twentieth Century Dictionary hell is defined as to cover or conceal which is close to unseen. Before the King James Version the old Anglo-Saxon word simply meant a dark, hidden, concealed or covered hole. But now check a modern dictionary and see what we get: hell(hel),n 1. the place where Christians believe that devils live and wicked people go after they die to be punished. I for one do not really care what Christians think it means. I am interested in the definition. This is just the beginning of the travesty. SPIRIT(pneuma) is translated LIFE in Rev. 13:5 SPIRIT(pneuma) is translated GHOST in Mk. 1:8 SOUL(nephesh) is translated LIFE in Gen. 9:4/Lev. 17:11 etc SOUL(nephesh) is translated GHOST in Job 11:2 SOUL(nephesh) is translated BEAST in Lev. 24:18 SOUL(nephesh) is translated BODY in Lev. 21:11/Hag. 2:35 etc. SOUL(nephesh) is translated HEART in Pro. 23:7 etc. BEAST(chay) is translated LIFE in Lev. 18:18 HEART(leb) is translated MIND in Pro. 21:27/1 Sam 9:20 etc. This kind of translating is not responsible research-it is confusing and contradictory. So yes rocking4jesus, question everything, challenge all. Study the Scriptures as if mining for gold, dig deep with an open mind and allow God to lead you to your own conclusions. Of course this will put you on the outside of Christianity but Jesus said to rejoice when we are persecuted for His name. I have always known that but it took me by surprise when the persecution came from my "church family" so I am an outcast from the mainstream. So be it let God be true and every man a liar. | ||
| justducky (justducky) New member Username: justducky Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 63.229.5.176 |
Jane wrote: And the word 'Pentecostal' comes from the Feast of Pentecost of Judaism-it was not founded in a masonic background. Many other churches that are non-UPC are considered Pentecostal, none of these churches are from masonic backgrounds. They all share this name due to the Azusa revival of the early 1900s-it was like the day of Pentecost, hence the name Pentecostal. Just though I'd clear that up. Unfortunately, this is only partially true. "Pentecost" is not a Hebrew word; it is Greek, and the celebration, as the church knows it, has very little to do with any Jewish observance. It was usurped from Shavuot (the Feast of Weeks), a Jewish harvest festival observed on 50th day of the counting of the Omer. The churches rarely observe their Pentecost on the same day as Shavuot, if they ever do at all, and whatever they do has little to do with the purpose for the observance as listed in the Bible, which is, for one thing, a celebration of the giving of the Torah. In fact, ask most Christians what Pentecost is and what its history is, and few can even answer, even though it is in their rarely-read Bibles. I'm sorry, but this is true! Ask! The second element that is mistaken in your answer is the fact that the Pentecostal churches have a Masonic background. Check out the history of your founders -- Charles Fox Parham, specifically. | ||
| bear (bear) Intermediate Member Username: bear Post Number: 172 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 4.165.239.207 |
Amato, If you study the words for spirit and soul from a lexicon, you will find that they can be translated in many ways, and still retain the meaning. Just an educated truth. | ||
| easeltine (easeltine) Intermediate Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 484 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 209.179.168.34 |
Just Ducky, I agree with you regarding your points. William Seymour deserves more credit as a founder...Charles Fox Parham was a bad egg. Erich | ||
| universitystudent (universitystudent) New member Username: universitystudent Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 164.111.195.98 |
I have heard many instances where people have had bad experiences with people from the UPC. I am UPC and 18 years old. I have never forced my religion on anyone. I have never told anyone the are going to hell, or forced my standards on anyone. I do not blindly follow my pastor either. I read the word and ask God for revelations of his word so I may understand certain passages of scripture that I may not otherwise know or understand. Pentecostal people are not the only people who sometimes force their religions on others. Their are other denominations and churches that accost people. If one is going to pin point a certain organization or denomination, we should speak about them all. No one is perfect. | ||
| universitystudent (universitystudent) New member Username: universitystudent Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 164.111.195.98 |
http://www.upci.org/doctrine/#60%20Questions%20on%20the%20Godhead | ||
| anoynomous (anoynomous) New member Username: anoynomous Post Number: 25 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 64.53.137.20 |
ARE WE TO TAKE OUR LIVES INTO OUR OWN HANDS? THAT SOUNDS LIKE A CULT TO ME. WE PUT OUR LIVES IN THE HANDS OF JESUS CHRIST. IF YOU ARE A CHRISTIAN | ||
| anoynomous (anoynomous) Junior Member Username: anoynomous Post Number: 26 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 64.53.137.20 |
THERE IS A PERSON THAT GAVE A LONG ARTICLE ON WHO GOD IS . WHO IS HE? DO YOU KNOW? I GOT A SCRITURE FOR YOU LOOK AT FOR A WHILE. SEE WHAT THE WORD SAYS BECAUSE IF THE WORD DON'T SPEAK YOU CAN'T HEAR ANYTHING. WHO'S THE WORD ? GOD IS HIS WORD AND HIS WORD IS GOD. YOU CANNOT SEPERATE YOUR WORD FROM YOURSELF AND MAKE IT ANOTHER PERSON. HOW CAN THREE BE COEQUAL AND ONE OF THEM BE BEGOTTEN BY THE OTHER. SON OF GOD MEANS THE WORD OF GOD ,WHICH IS GOD, IMPREGNATED MARY AND THAT HOLY THING WAS CALL THE SON OF GOD. 100%MAN/100%GOD JESUS CHRIST JESUS CHRIST IS UNIQUE HE'S GOD IN THE BEGINNING HE SAID LET THERE BE LIGHT AND IN TIME HE SAID FATHER FORGIVE THEM FOR THEY KNOW NOT WHAT THEY DO. YOU SAY HOW CAN THIS BE HE'S GOD AND MAN. HUAMNITY AND DEITY ALL IN ONE IN TIME AND ETERNITY AT THE SAME TIME HOW BECAUSE ITS UNEXPLANABLE WHEN YOU HAVE APERSON THAT'S GOD AND HUMAN ITS A MYSTERY. ST. MATTHEW 11 CHAPTER VERSE 27 FATHER ( SPIRIT ) SON (HUMANITY) | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 611 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
JESUS IS BOTHE GOD AND MAN. HE is the only ONE of THE GODHEAD that came in the flesh. HE came to save us and redeem us from the curse. HE ascended back to HIS FATHER where HE IS SEATED AT THE FATHERS RIGHT HAND. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 903 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.169.8.34 |
hey not i saw where you were writting again, but have seen any more. why? i wrote to your son tod and find him quite pleasant. t first i thought you had c hanged your name but then he said he was your son. we are praying for you. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 970 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.32.209 |
just wanted to be sure you saw it. | ||
| arron (arron) Advanced Member Username: arron Post Number: 997 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.32.209 |
no but i feel ok when i am defending THE WORD OF GOD | ||
| inkorrekt (inkorrekt) New member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 67.190.2.228 |
To Anonymous: Bible does not openly declare that This is Trinity. However, the role of Father, Son and the Holy Spirit is clearly explained before creation of mankind, after creation and even today. It is for us to either accept this or deny this today. In Mathew 28:18, we read that after resurrection,Jesus appeared to the disciples in Galilee and commanded them to make disciples and Baptize them in the name of the Father, Son and the Holy Spirit. I was baptized twice( once as a baby and then as an Adult who really understood the meaning of Salvation). 20 years ago, I happened to attend a UPC Church. They asked me if I were Baptized in the name of Jesus. I told them that I was baptized under trinity as commanded by Jesus Christ Himself. They then insisted on me being baptized again in the name of JEsus. I cannot find any justification for this. Belief in Trinity is the fundamental Tenet of the Christian Faith. But, UPC has different set of standards. UPC has been very strongly adhering to the teachings of William Brenham. He is definitely a Cult leader. | ||
| kevykev35 (kevykev35) Member Username: kevykev35 Post Number: 67 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.160.22.177 |
You are right and i agree inkorrect..I was aprouched in the same way. | ||
| arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1095 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.204.41 |
yes the upc church does insist on batising in the NAME OF JESUS even rebaptising if you have been bpatised in the TRINITY. they are wrong. they say THE BLOOD is not waht saves it is the water of obedience in HIS NAME | ||
| cs1 (cs1) New member Username: cs1 Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 138.163.0.43 |
" would like someone to please respond to my question. How do you know your in a cult?" anytime you find where everyone believes the same thing without Q?'s or afraid to disagree or one person other then God's word is the soul authority that is a cult. or tells you thaT if you leave the church you are going to hell trying to control you by fear that is acult. | ||
| cs1 (cs1) New member Username: cs1 Post Number: 3 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 138.163.0.44 |
UPC brothers I have one Q? for you Rom 10:9-10 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved 10 For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness; and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. I have done this. I confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and that I'm a sinner asked him to come into my heart and forgive me of my sin's. When I did this, was I saved? I have been baptized according to what Jesus said in matt 28:19 is my salvation null and void because it was not in Jesus name? | ||
| acts238 (acts238) Junior Member Username: acts238 Post Number: 35 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 68.51.165.29 |
Dear cs1-I can give you what I think a cult is....here where I live locally there is a church that I would put into a "cult" category...all the men usually only wear white shirts, men sit on one side of the church the women sit on another...they preach against power point, anyone who's computer contains a DVD, televisions etc....they have to be at every prayer meeting, which I have no idea when they ever see their children or husband, they stalk people at stores, every man just about has a ear piece to their cell phones, one couple was so badly harassed by this church they will not go to any other church ever...they told this to a women who came to our church while visiting from out of town she said they would come by their home at least three times a day and call their home several times a day on top of coming by. Sad thing is they are a holiness church and I attend a holiness church...I just pray daily that no one ever thinks I attend this church. I am sure they love God...but I don't ever want to worship man nor a church but God. I attend a Oneness Church and I know that with every religion you are going to have some churches who fall into the category of Cult weather it is Baptist, Catholic or UPC but I will not sit in a church that is legalistic or cult like because that is not of God. Now for your second post, I believe in Jesus Name baptism, I do not believe baptism is going to save anyone....it is a step in salvation but just because you are baptized does not mean you are going to make it through the gates....you must live a Godly Holy life....not any way you want.....I am not God so I could never sit and say anyones salvation is null and void that would be judging and that I am not. | ||
| cs1 (cs1) New member Username: cs1 Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 138.163.0.42 |
Ok Acts238 now having said that if a person confess that Jesus Christ is Lord and that he or she is a sinner asked him to come into thier heart and forgive them of sin's. When they did this, where they saved? after doing this they were basptized according to what Jesus said in matt 28:19 is thier salvation null and void because it was not in Jesus name? | ||
| acts238 (acts238) Junior Member Username: acts238 Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 68.51.165.29 |
Well....you are not going to agree with what I am going to say but I still will not say anyone's salvation is null and void...I may not agree all steps have been completed but will not say that their salvation is null and void...just making that point. Matt 28:19 is just titles...it says baptizing them in the Name of the Father, son and holy Ghost....so what is the Name of the Father, son and Holy Ghost? After you read Acts 2:38 it says be baptized in the name of Jesus...to my knowledge no one was baptized using the titles of Father, Son and Holy Ghost.....If you can find that in the bible please let me know so that I can stand corrected. 1Timothy 3:16 was my first scripture to my understanding of who God is...no one showed me...I found it on my own....then I really started doing some deep digging and searching the scriptures out. I would still not say someone's salvation is null and void....who am I to say such things....I think if someone is questioning this then they themself need to seek the Lord and study his word. I think on the day of judgement it will be to late to ask questions then. I hope I answered your question. I am sure it is not the answer you are looking for but pray maybe you could see my point of view. Blessings to you!!!! | ||
| arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1248 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.204.41 |
act2:38.. please answer their question. is a person saved after doing exactly what the bible says to do to be saved... confess and believe in thier heart. are they saved then or do they have to be baptised in THE NAME OF JESUS as your church says, before they are saved. dont beat around the bush just say .. yes or no. | ||
| acts238 (acts238) Junior Member Username: acts238 Post Number: 37 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 68.51.165.29 |
Hello Arron! Well I still can not say someone is saved...even if they are baptized in Jesus name...do I believe that a person should be baptized in Jesus name yes....will judge someone no....will I say they are not saved...No way...like I said before in my other posts, I am not God and I am not to be judging...one more thing...it is not as my church says...I would never just go by what a Church has told me but what I believe the word of God says...just wanted you to know I would not blindly do what someone in church told me to do unless I knew it lined up with God's word. You know...I believe the steps of salvation is Repentance, Baptism and the filling of the Holy Ghost...however these are steps...unless someone lives a Godly Holy life and holds to the word of God then I do not believe will be saved. Just because some is baptized does not mean they are saved...I do not believe in once saved always saved...just can't see that as being truth....I am not beating around the bush to answer the question I just don't feel that I can answer that question. I can state what I believe....I know not everyone is going to believe as I do but that does not mean I am going to say they are going to hell and not saved.......I pray you have a good evening!! Blessings to you, | ||
| arron (arron) Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 1249 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.204.41 |
i mean acoording to what THE WORD OF GOD says.. is one realoy saved when he does what the bible says do.. confess believe... or does he / she have to be baptised in JESUS NAME? is THE BLOOD sufficent without waterbaptism in JESUS NAME? | ||
| cs1 (cs1) New member Username: cs1 Post Number: 7 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 138.163.0.44 |
Why would Peter say be baptized in Jesus name for the remission of sins? Who died and ascended to heaven? What Person was Peter witnessing about? The only reason why Peter said to be baptized in the name of Jesus was to bring attention to the ONE who we are saved by. Remember that Jesus had just ascended to heaven and the Church was just getting started after the power from on high came. The word on the street was he was dead!! Ok and We are saved by grace through faith not of works. Baptism does not save a person only the redemptive work of the Cross and acceptance of the Lord Jesus Christ. What about the thief on the cross? He was not baptized and if Matt 28:19 is just titles then so is the names that peter said to be baptized into. Salvation is not on what we do but on what Christ did. I say yes one can be saved according to Roman 10:9-10 according to the word of God Jesus is the Logus John chapter 1 the very expression of God in the beginning was the word and the word was God now Jesus was not praying to himself in the garden LOL and he did not say the word comforter , or Spirit of truth, He will lead you into all truth if the third person of the Trinity was not real, but if the Holy Spirit just another manifestation of Jesus, and God the father is a title what would Jesus say he was going to Him? That is very confusing. | ||
| cs1 (cs1) New member Username: cs1 Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 138.162.0.42 |
|
