| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous |
This link goes to the program transcript and slideshow of "stills": http://www.ustelevision.focusindia.com/main.html | ||
| joefraser |
im not a jehovahs witnesses but i respect them. i feel in general they offer a good example of what a true christian is, simply put this is an isolated case probable put on by the catholic church to offset all the horrendous things that have been happening there. if were to bash anyone it should be the catholic church. their SICK | ||
| Anonymous |
i was just wondering if anyone in here could give me some information on jehovahs witness...i am considering becoming one. i have heard good things about them, if anyone could help it would be greatly appreciated. Thanx! email me at kiwimist87@aol.com please!! | ||
| Anonymous |
Jehovah's Witnesses are NOT Christians! The definition of a Christian is a follower of Christ. Jehovah's Witnesses do not recognize the diety of Jesus Christ. They deny the very God of Christianity. I was a JW for 8 years...I am now a Christian. The difference in the two beliefs are worlds apart. If you have questions about their beliefs please feel free to email me a Poohsmom61@yahoo.com. I would be more than happy to help..if I can. | ||
| joeyct |
A Good Links site is at : www.watchtower.tv Not a JW site! | ||
| Rosi |
To joefrazer, There are many good people who are Jehovah's witnesses, however, the child abuse issue addressed on Dateline is far from an isolated case. There are thousands of cases just like the one aired on Dateline. I was a witness for 30 years and could tell you an earfull of the most unloving situations you could imagine. Please beware and do some research. They are just as SICK as the Catholic Church. | ||
| Anonymous |
a cult is using our family and we are trapped....help us get out | ||
| Anonymous |
Hi. I am searching around for some meaning in my life? I believe I have a soul but i'm not sure and don't want to fall for crap. Any ideas? What is this all about? Is it dangerous? | ||
| Anonymous |
www.silentlambs.com they had a protest march in Brooklyn a while ago www.silentlambs.com | ||
| Anonymous |
These jehovah's witnesses are the most dangerous groups I ever known.I have been attending meetings for the last four years.You don't want to risk your life.for more information on the damages you could get there see my web site below mehttp://free.hostdepartment.com/T/Truth or emailto:melaku_behailu@yahoo.com | ||
| Shari D. |
I came to this site to have an open-minded mature discussion about Jehovah's Witnesses. Since I am one I thought I might put to rest some of the complete lies and some of the rumors that have been said about us. But I now see that all that is done here is spread more rumors about my religion. All that you do is attack us. I find that very sad. I would like to ask you WHY ARE YOU SO THREATENED BY US????? SOME ONE SAID WE ARE DANGEROUS!! I am a 19 year old girl who has been brought up by wonderful JW parents to be respectful, loving to everyone (that includes those of you who insult me and berate me for being a witness), helpful, and I wouldn't hurt or harm anyone. Infact i am the opposite I go door to door spreading the word of God, and showing people how much he loves all of us. So yes I can see why im dangerous!!! I do all of this while I get cursed at, sreamed on, spit on, beat up, and other horrible things. I THINK IM THE ONE WHO SHOULD BE SAYING HOW DANGEROUS YOU ARE!! PLEASE RESPOND TO THIS ******WHAT IS SO DANGEROUS ABOUT ME AND A RELIGION TEACHING LOVE AND PEACE ALL OF GODS TEACHINGS????********* | ||
| Anonymous |
Jehovah's Witness is the biggest cult out there. They use mind control to suck you in i.e. telling you are the chosen and they have come to show you the "truth" They truly are the goats in "sheeps clothing" After much indoctrination then if you try to refuse or leave they tell you you will be destroyed by Jehovah in Armeggendon... They are dangerous, and if they come to your door. You tell them you are not interested, and "wipe your feet" Saved from them, from God, the real God the God of Love... | ||
| Anonymous |
mind control is what you call it, yet they do what the bible tells them to do and the author of the bible is God , then yes would be wonderful to have God control our mind, however it is men that put the doubt there to misconsture the truth, they have the truth ,they actually read the bible and apply its principles, and love his son Dearly and wish to be like him, the diffanantly belive Jesus and what he has done for them, there will always be doubters due to sin and imperfection. it is very sad such a little opinion in such a great people. Gods People for sure, and not affraid to use his name in public. | ||
| Anonymous |
To Shari D. I have been a J.W. since 1988, and am in the process of exiting the organization. I know it is hard for you to hear critism of the organization, especially when it is expressed with hatred. The Witness, individually, are not evil people. As with any group, there are sick individuals in among those who sincerly wish to serve and please God. Abusers should be recognized as sick, but protecting children should ALWAYS be the priority. That is not really what I am writing to you about. What I'm going to say is something no one, Witness or otherwise wants to hear about their religious organization, and was as difficult for me to accept as it would be for you. The Society misrepresents itself, conceals facts about it's history, and (when it can get away with it), disfellowships those who question - not God, but the organizations policies. If you can get a copy, Raymond Franz's book "Crisis of Consience" will tell you all you need to know to make a truly informed decision whether or not to continue your association with the Witnesses. You owe this to yourself. As I said, I'm not happy to have learned what I now know, but I would rather know the truth than continue living a myth. Please also be assured that if you choose to leave, you will NOT also be leaving God. Your faith in him is not the same as your faith in the organization, and you do not have to lose both. Please look. | ||
| Wes |
Hey, "ANONYMOUS"... You're a chicken, a liar, and a poor deciever at that. | ||
| Wes Again |
One more thing...this was the biggest waste of time this week. Good thing it's only Tuesday! Jehovah and Jesus revealed their names(and the way to contact them). You can only fight by Satan's rules when you go against the Truth. | ||
| Anonymous |
Wes, If all your hateful words reveal the kind of spirit found in the JW's, then I am thankful to not be one. Also, don't shoot the messenger. This person simply revealed truths of the organization, not Jehovah. Don't discount what he or she says. There are abused children out there who need help and understanding after what they've been through. | ||
| clint |
The organization of JW's do not condone child abuse. The JW's do their best to be honest people. The organization is not tolerant of other organizations beliefs, therefore making themselves seperatists and are not allowed to socialize outside of the JW's unless attempting to convert. The orginazation will decide what is right and wrong even if the bible does not discuss the topic. There is no grey area with them. (i.e. gambling is bad vs. investing is ok... ok to murder as a police officer when justified but not in armed forces) You must preach the word by going door to door eventually in order to remain a JW and most will do so willingly. It is not the JW's who are split on the issue of the diefication of Christ, but Christianity has been split on this issue for many centuries. The JW's believe Christ is the son of God, Jehovah. They do not believe that Allah is the arab equivallent as the English, Jehovah, although both are often referred to as the God of Abraham and the Oxford Book of World Religion states Allah is Arab for God. Does any Christian religion realize this?! It IS possible to worship YHWH or JEHOVAH without the JW's although they would have you believe otherwise, but plenty did exactly that before the existance of JW's. If I am wrong in my analysis, feel free to tell me how at clint1111@iwon.com | ||
| Anonymous |
I have been a J/W for 17 years and I must say they do try to brain wash you. My father and I use to study with them. He was more than happy with it. As I got older though I did a little more research, and found that their bible way founded in the 1800's. which would make them a sect. This brought another question up. Where did the bible come from? In secular history, I found things that no J/W would think to talk about. The man who wrote the bible while sitting in jail and how he wanted things to be. So now there are those who are "brain washed" into thinking things. I noticed there is a lot of hate in this room. Instead of arguing to each other, maybe you all should think things though about your own religion. Studying is very uncommon these days. | ||
| Mintameara |
Hello. I am a student at Boise State University doing research on moral values in children and organized religon's effect on children. I grew up a Jahova Witness and when my family stopped attending the Kingdom Hall, for many number of reasons, I felt like a normal part of society. I then realized my calling in life was to help people and be a person of science and philosophy. I have a three year old son who has asked about God and Jesus. I read him stories from a children's bible and he is content with this. I do not see any reason to raise him in any organized religon for all values and virtues he recieves he will learn by example from me, his mother or my husband, his father. I thank the kingdom hall for that revalation. If you have a life story that you feel needs to be told, please e-mail me {Hitmobile@juno.com) I am glad to respond to anyone who grew up in the JW religion or any other for that matter. What was your take on the life you led? If you still are a witness, why? What is the appeal? What is the benifits? Please let me know for this will give teeth to my thesis. Thank you, a greatful scholar. | ||
| Leo D Saumure (64.230.146.119) |
I am looking for a Jahova witness member called Laurier Saumure Of Quebec. He was living in Quebec durring the Duplessy years. He was jailed several times by the government of the day. His case as a Jahova witness went to all of the quebec court system and ended up in the Canadian Supreme Court. The reason i am searching for him is to enter him and all of the records in my ancestry tree I hope you can help me yours truly L Saumure | ||
| islandgirl (24.109.65.165) |
I swear, I have never ...ever... met such a sad and pathetic and unforgiving group as the JW's, The damage they do to their children, and then the sickness they (the children) put on there families lives, is truly dangerous and sick. I and my family are living proof, but I know I am not the only one out there that has suffered their abuse and cultish ways, but we survive and they spiral into a world of hate and try to take us with them....WOW, what an eye opener that was. anyone out there entering into a life with a JW , just beware and hold on to your beliefs and and be strong, better yet get out. If you love your self now, you won't in a year, you will be pounded into the ground, be belittle and disrespected in EVERY way that a person can be....And believe me when I say you can not help them and you can not change them, it is to late for them, but its not to late for you. The have had the unfortunate upbringing of abuse and believe all they know to be the way. Save your self... | ||
| elsia (64.32.117.193) |
island girl? I'm curious. Do you belong to any church now? I need to know because I need information about what you know is wrong with JW beliefes. I'm a christian and someone I love is living with a family of JW. I've proven with the Bible that most of their beliefes are wrong and just based on a few verses of the Bible and not entire contexts. Anyone who reads this and can help me with info. or suggestions on how to convince him that JW are not actually "Jehovas Witnesses" because they don't believe in the Jehova the Bible tlaks about( Father, Son and Holy Spirit) ... please write to me at elisa_emtg@hotmail.com | ||
| Anonymous (207.43.195.204) |
An awsome book I suggest is by Ron Rhodes which is called "Reasoning From The Scriptures With Jehovah's Witnesses". It goes through passages that JW use to support their belief and how they incorrectly interpret them. It also gives you pointed questions you can ask them to get them to understand the problems. I also have tons of internet resources as well. M | ||
| Anonymous (68.194.171.167) |
It makes me sick to see all you innocent people asking other people to help locate your true religion. If one wants to seek the true religion, they do so themselves. They do not ask people who are inevitebly going to persuade them to go their way. Wan't an answer? Read the bible, a book written thousands of years ago that holds the truth. All the prophecies written throughout the bible have never failed to come true, even to this day they are evident. Jews neglect the greek books, for what reason?? Catholics fail to meet the requirements of a true christain, and someone who objects to that try and think of someone... definetly not the priests. The churches create doctrines simply because they do not have the strength to fulfill jehovah's requirements. There whole entire religion is based on MONEY. Jehovah's witnesses do not ask for money or any other type of temporary deed. Jehovahs witnesses DO NOT neglect christ, they simply do not WORSHIP him. This is rightfuly so. It clearly states in the bible that christ is not a god, he is mortal. Jehovahs witnesses do love christ sincerely as they close every prayer in his name. Why do people portray jehovah's witnesses so harshly? The real question should be why people neglect the true name of god. "Jehovah". people look for "appeal" and "benefits" when they search for the "true" religion. With all true benefit's you need to sacrifice greatly. Jehovah's witnesses live life according to god's will, not a priest, a rabii or any other false idol. If you live life to god's will, you will thus live to time indefinete in the paradise. p.s. I'm not a jehovah's witness because I have only begun studying independently for a year (i'm 17). If you object to anything I said please respond without basing your argument around moral values or social customs. Use evidence from the bible, the only true religious account. | ||
| Anonymous (68.194.171.167) |
Interesting quote. (i posted the previous message) "A lie can travel halfway around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." | ||
| Anonymous (68.194.171.167) |
I wrote the past 2 messages. I made a mistake on the first one, Jesus IS a god. Just not the almighty god. | ||
| Anonymous (208.24.179.11) |
Jesus said to them, "Most assuredly, I say to you, before Abraham was, I AM." John 8:58 Therefore the Jews sought all the more to kill Him, because He not only broke the Sabbath, but also said that God was His Father, making Himself equal with God. John 5:18 In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. John 1:1 I could go on but you can check the context yourself. If you were a JW then you would say that he is "a" god as they interpret John 1:1 as:In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a God. If you're not I would seriously find resources that talk to both sides of the issue. However seeing your references to the name Jehovah, your defense of JW, and the putting down of churches sure does appear that you seem like a JW for sure. Following are quotes from the literature of the Watchtower Bible and Tract Society, better known as the Jehovah's Witnesses organization. After reading the quotes below, it is obvious that the Watchtower discourages individual thinking among the Jehovah's Witnesses and requires them to submit to the teaching of the Watchtower organization. Romans 14:5 says, "One man regards one day above another, another regards every day alike. Let each man be fully convinced in his own mind." The Bible wants us to think and to be convinced in our own minds about issues that are debatable (Rom. 14:1-12). However, the Watchtower does not want its people to be convinced in their own minds. It wants them to submit to the Watchtower. The Bible can only be understood via the Watchtower organization. Quote: "Only this organization functions for Jehovah's purpose and to his praise. To it alone God's Sacred Word, the Bible, is not a sealed book." The Watchtower; July 1, 1973, pp. 402. Comment: This is an amazing quote. Only the watchtower organization can properly interpret the Bible. It is saying that the Lord Jesus, through the Holy Spirit, cannot give a Christian a proper understanding of the Bible even though it is Jesus who opens the mind to understand Scripture (Luke 24:45). This effectively prevents the Jehovah's Witness from thinking and interpreting the Bible for himself apart from the watchtower organization's guidance. Individuals are not able to rightly interpret the Bible apart from the Watchtower organization. Quote: "Thus the Bible is an organizational book and belongs to the Christian congregation as an organization, not to individuals, regardless of how sincerely they may believe that they can interpret the Bible." The Watchtower, Oct. 1, 1967. p. 587. Comment: The Watchtower restricts its followers from looking at the Bible by itself without the guidance of the organization's input. This is not freedom to think for oneself and it is a sure way to keep the Jehovah's Witnesses intellectually in line with Watchtower teachings. Also, contrast the quote above with the following quote from the Watchtower: "The Vatican belittles Bible study by claiming it is the only organization authorized and qualified to interpret the Bible." The Watchtower, 7/1/1943, p. 201. The funny thing is that that is exactly what the Watchtower does. It claims to be the only source of true spiritual knowledge. If you don't understand something, meekly wait for the Watchtower to tell you what the truth is, otherwise you are foolish. Quote: "We should eat and digest and assimilate what is set before us, without shying away from parts of the food because it may not suit the fancy of our mental taste...We should meekly go along with the Lord's theocratic organization and wait for further clarification, rather than balk at the first mention of a thought unpalatable to us and proceed to quibble and mouth our criticisms and opinions as though they were worth more than the slave's provision of spiritual food. Theocratic ones will appreciate the Lord's visible organization and not be so foolish as to put against Jehovah's channel their own human reasoning and sentiment and personal feelings." The Watchtower, February 1, 1952, pp. 79-80. Comment: Here, the watchtower tells us that submission is to God's "theocratic organization", the watchtower organization and that submission must be complete and meek. Undoubtedly, this is clearly teaching that independent thought is not welcome in the Watchtower Organization. The Watchtower magazine is the means of God's communication Quote: "It should be expected that the Lord would have a means of communication to his people on the earth, and he has clearly shown that the magazine called The Watchtower is used for that purpose." (1939 Yearbook of Jehovah's Witnesses, p. 85.) Comment: This says that the Jehovah's Witness organization is the means God uses to communicate on earth today. But, the Bible says that God speaks to us through His Son: Heb. 1:1-2 says it is Jesus: "God, after He spoke long ago to the fathers in the prophets in many portions and in many ways, 2in these last days has spoken to us in His Son, whom He appointed heir of all things, through whom also He made the world." Cannot understand the Bible outside of watchtower organization Quote: "We all need help to understand the Bible, and we cannot find the Scriptural guidance we need outside the ‘faithful and discreet slave' organization." (The Watchtower, Feb. 15, 1981.) Comment: The Jehovah's Witness organization has set itself up as the sole means of understanding the Bible. In contrast to this, Jesus opens the mind to understand the scriptures (Luke 24:45). It isn't the Watchtower organization that does this, but God. Admittedly, we have denominational differences. But the differences are not in the essentials and we certainly are able to understand those essentials apart from the Watchtower. See the article on the "faithful and discreet slave," for clarification on this issue. Those who think apart from the Watchtower's guidance are like Satan Quote: "From time to time, there have arisen from among the ranks of Jehovah's people those, who, like the original Satan, have adopted an independent, faultfinding attitude...They say that it is sufficient to read the Bible exclusively, either alone or in small groups at home. But, strangely, through such ‘Bible reading,' they have reverted right back to the apostate doctrines that commentaries by Christendom's clergy were teaching 100 years ago..." The Watchtower, August 15, 1981. Comment: So, if you think independently, find fault with something the Watchtower says, then you are like Satan. Is this freedom of thought? Is this how Christ works in the church? Hardly. Also, what are the apostate doctrines spoken of in the above quote? Of course, that would be the Trinity, the deity of Christ and the Holy Spirit, the physical resurrection of Christ, etc., all things the Watchtower organization denies. So, if you read the Bible by itself, reading it for what it says, without the watchtower guiding you, you will adopt these doctrines -- which the Watchtower says are not true! If you love God, then you accept the Watchtower. Quote: "We cannot claim to love God, yet deny his word and channel of communication." The Watchtower, October 1, 1967, p. 591. Comment: In other words, if you love God then you will be "in" the watchtower organization. If you reject the organization, then you reject God. Amazing! So, the Jehovah's Witness is urged to not leave the organization lest they end up rejecting God. Is this encouraging freedom on thought? No. The truth of God can be known only through the Watchtower organization. Quote: All who want to understand the Bible should appreciate that the "greatly diversified wisdom of God" can become known only through Jehovah's channel of communication, the faithful and discreet slave. The Watchtower; 10/1/1994; p. 8. Comment: Here, the Watchtower states that the only way to understand God's word is through the Watchtower organization. In other words, your thinking must be in submission to the teaching of the Watchtower. These few quotes should be more than adequate to demonstrate that the Watchtower not only maintains a control over the thinking of its adherents, but actually discourages independent thought. This is definitely one of the signs of a cult. Regarding money you better read: http://www.watchtowerinformationservice.org/donations.html A further point is that 6 million JWs donate their time to distribute WTS publications door to door in what is called “field service” or “witnessing” or “ministry”. This activity is said to be “voluntary” but the teaching is that JWs who don’t do it will be executed by God at Armageddon. JWs who regularly miss field service for entire months also face ostracism in their congregation and - if they try to justify their slackness - excommunication. Despite WTS writers often implying that the main source of funding is “contribution boxes” in Kingdom Halls, most comes from the efforts of six million JWs who trudge the streets and knock on doors to offer WTS literature. Furthermore, these same JWs are obliged to buy personal copies of all magazines and books the WTS puts out. The WTS has millions of captive buyers expected to purchase the publications without even looking at the contents! I'm having an extremely hard time believing that you are not a JW with all the defense of them. It may be from total misinformation which they will be more than happy to give you. If you really want to "independently study" then examine all the information from both sides. M | ||
| Anonymous (208.24.179.11) |
In the Watchtower publications ALL SCRIPTURE IS INSPIRED OF GOD & BENEFICIAL p. 327 it states: "Note what Hebrew and Greek scholar Alexander Thomson has to say in his review of the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION: "The translation is evidently the work of skilled and clever scholars," THE DIFFERENTIATOR, April 1952. This sentence is another WATCHTOWER lie. The late Mr. Alexander Thomson was not a Greek or Hebrew Scholar. He in fact did not even formally study Greek or Hebrew in any school according to his co-editor Dr. Frank Neil Pohorlak of Inglewood, CA. Mr. Thomson was employed in a bank in Scotland and did not believe that Jesus was God. WHAT DO GREEK SCHOLARS THINK ABOUT THE JEHOVAH'S WITNESS TRANSLATION OF JOHN 1:1? Dr. Julius R. Mantey: Calls the Watchtower translation of John 1:1 "A GROSSLY MISLEADING TRANSLATION." It is neither scholarly nor reasonable to translate John 1:1 `the Word was a god." But of all the scholars in the world, so far as we know, none have translated this verse as Jehovah's Witnesses have done." Bruce M. Metzger, Professor of New Testament Language and literature at Princeton Theological Seminary said: "Far more pernicious in this same verse is the rendering,... `and the Word was a god,' with the following footnotes:"`A god,' In contrast with `the God'." It must be stated quite frankly that, if the Jehovah's Witnesses take this translation seriously, they are polytheists. In view of the additional light which is available during this age of Grace, such a representation is even more reprehensible than were the heathenish, polytheistic errors into which ancient Israel was so prone to fall. As a matter of solid fact, however, such a rendering is a frightful mistranslation." - THEOLOGY TODAY April, 1953 Dr. J. J. Griesback: "So numerous and clear are the arguments and testimonies of Scriptures in favor of the true Diety of Christ, that I can hardly imagine how, upon the admission of the Divine authority of Scripture, and with regard to fair rules of interpretation, this doctrine can by any man be called in doubt. Especially the passage John 1:1 is so clear and so superior to all exception, that by no daring efforts of either commentators or critics can it be snatched out of the hands of the defenders of the truth." Dr. Eugene A. Nida (Head of the Translation Department of the American Bible Society Translators of the GOOD NEWS BIBLE): "With regard to John 1:1 there is, of course, a complication simply because the NEW WORLD TRANSLATION was apparently done by persons who did not take seriously the syntax of the Greek." Dr. William Barclay (University of Glasgow, Scotland): "The deliberate distortion of truth by this sect is seen in their New Testament translations. John 1:1 is translated: `...the Word was a god', a translation which is GRAMMATICALLY IMPOSSIBLE. It is abundantly clear that a sect which can translate the New Testament like that is intellectually dishonest." - THE EXPOSITORY TIMES Nov. 1953 Dr. B. F. Westcott (Whose Greek text is used in JW KINGDOM INTERLINEAR): "The predicate (God) stands emphatically first, as in John 4:24. It is necessarily without the article...No idea of inferiority of nature is suggested by the form of expression, which simply affirms the true Diety of the Word...in the third clause `the Word' is declared to be `God' and so included in the unity of the Godhead." Dr. Ernest C. Colwell (University of Chicago): "A definite predicate nominative has the article when it follows the verb; it does not have the article when it precedes the verb;...this statement cannot be regarded as strange in the prologue of the gospel which reaches its climax in the confession of Thomas. `My Lord and my God.'" John 20:28 Dr. F. F. Bruce (University of Manchester, England): "Much is made by Arian amateur grammarians of the omission of the definite article with `God' in the phrase `And the Word was God.' Such an omission is common with nouns in a predicate construction. `a god' would be totally indefensible." Dr. Paul L. Kaufman (Portland, OR.): "The Jehovah's Witness people evidence an abysmal ignorance of the basic tenets of Greek grammar in their mistranslation of John 1:1." Dr. Charles L. Feinberg (La Mirada CA.): "I can assure you that the rendering which the Jehovah's Witnesses give John 1:1 is not held by any reputable Greek Scholar." Dr. Harry A. Sturz: (Dr. Sturz is Chairman of the Language Department and Professor of Greek at Biola College) "Therefore, the NWT rendering: "the Word was a god" is not a "literal" but an ungrammatical and tendential translation. A literal translation in English can be nothing other than: "the Word was God." - THE BIBLE COLLECTOR July-December, 1971 p.12 | ||
| Anonymous (208.24.179.11) |
Jesus He is the creator (John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-17). He is uncreated (John 1:1-3; Col. 1:15-17). He is God in flesh (John 1:1,14; 8:58 with Exodus 3:14; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8). His Incarnation and His deity Hypostatic Union - Jesus has two natures in one person. He was not half God and half man. He is both Human and Divine. He was completely God and completely man. This is the correct position concerning His two natures. See Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; John 8:58 and Exodus 3:14. Jesus will remain as both God and man for eternity. Jesus was born of the virgin Mary (Matt. 1:18; Luke 1:35). "He was born under the Law (Gal. 4:4) and fulfilled all of the Law of God (John 4:34 ; 8:29), even to the point of death (Phil. 2:8). In His death He bore the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us (Gal. 3:13). Thus in the death of Christ the sins of His people were judged (Rom. 3:23-26) and forgotten (Heb. 8:12), and the result of His act of righteousness was eternal life (Rom. 5:18). Jesus is worshiped - (Matt. 2:2,11; 14:33; John 9:35-38; Heb. 1:6). Jesus is prayed to - (Acts 7:55-60; Psalm 116:4 and Zech. 13:9 with 1 Cor. 1:1-2). Jesus is called God - (John 20:28; Heb. 1:8). He is the exact representation of the nature of God (Heb. 1:3). His death and the atonement Jesus bore the sins of the world (1 John 2:2) in His body on the cross (1 Pet. 2:24). He was a propitiation, a satisfaction to God that appeased God's wrath. He atoned. He made right that which was wrong between us and God. His shed blood is what cleanses us from sin (Lev. 17:11; Heb. 9:22; Rom. 5:9; 1 John 1:7-9). He removed the enmity between God and Man (Rom. 5:10). For whom did He die? - Some say for the sheep (Christians) only (John 10:11,15). The Sheep are the Christians. The Goats are the non-Christians (Matt. 25:32-46). Others say He died for everyone (1 John 2:2). Each side has good arguments. The Resurrection of Christ (John 2:19-21; 1 Cor. 15:1-4). Jesus rose in the same body that He died in (John 2:19-21; Luke 24:36-43). Jesus' body is ‘resurrected.' We do not know exactly what His body is like, but the nature of the resurrected body is discussed by Paul in 1 Cor. 15:35-58. Right now Jesus is in heaven, still as, and eternally to be both God and man (1 Tim. 2:5; Col. 2:9). This is important because Jesus is the High Priest forever: "where Jesus has entered as a forerunner for us, having become a high priest forever according to the order of Melchizedek,” (Heb. 6:20). A spirit cannot be a high priest, only a man can do that. Furthermore, Jesus always lives to make intercession for us "Hence, also, He is able to save forever those who draw near to God through Him, since He always lives to make intercession for them," (Heb. 7:25). The Ascension of Christ (Acts 1:1-11.). After the resurrection Jesus appeared to His disciples during a period of forty days. He completed His message to them then. In light of the cloud in the O.T. (Exodus 40:34; 1 Kings 8:10f.; Luke 9:34f.) as a manifestation of God's glory and presence, we have the necessary expectation of His glorious ascension. He ascended in full view of the apostles who wrote of what they saw. The Doctrine of the Deity of Christ is opposed to: Docetism - Jesus was truly spirit and only appeared to be a man. Gnosticism - Jesus was only a man taken over by the heavenly Christ which never became incarnate. The heavenly Christ returned to heaven before the crucifixion. Arianism - Jesus was created slightly lower than God. Then Jesus created all things. The Hypostatic Union (Jesus having two natures in one person) is opposed to: Kenosis - Jesus lessened Himself in the incarnation, i.e., God minus something. Eutychianism - The two natures of Jesus are completely ‘mixed' and indiscernible. Nestorianism - The two natures are not in contact with each other and that Jesus was two persons. Monophysitism - The two natures combined and became one, a new type of being. (Then Jesus would be neither God nor man, but a third something.) | ||
| Anonymous (208.24.179.11) |
The Deity of Christ Jesus is God in flesh (John 8:58 with Exodus 3:14). See also John 1:1,14; 10:30-33; 20:28; Col. 2:9; Phil. 2:5-8; Heb. 1:8 1 John 4:2-3: "This is how you can recognize the Spirit of God: Every spirit that acknowledges that Jesus Christ has come in the flesh is from God, but every spirit that does not acknowledge Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the Antichrist, which you have heard is coming and even now is already in the world." The above verse needs to be cross referenced with John 1:1,14 (also written by John) where he states that the Word was God and the Word became flesh. 1 John 4:2-3 is saying that if you deny that Jesus is God in flesh then you are of the spirit of Antichrist. John 8:24, "I said, therefore, to you, that you will die in your sins. For if you do not believe that I am, you will die in your sins." Jesus said here that if you do not believe "that I am" you will die in your sins. In Greek I am is 'ego eimi,' which means ‘I am.' These are the same words used in John 8:58 where Jesus says "...before Abraham was, I am." He was claiming the divine title by quoting Exodus 3:14 in the Greek Septuagint. (The Septuagint was the Hebrew Old Testament translated into Greek.) | ||
| Anonymous (208.24.179.11) |
Here is a good comparison for you: http://www.carm.org/doctrine/Jesusisgod.htm It's a comparison of GOD, "YAHWEH" and Jesus | ||
| freddie gobble (64.12.116.66) |
i am looking for pictures of a beautiful woman that aired on dateline, her name is karen robinoux. her story was she was in a false religion and she lost her child to starvation because her husband refused to let her feed her child. i would like any information i can get on her because i believe her story. she couldnt feed her child and i would like to contact her. please help, i think she got dealt a wrong hand! | ||
| freddie gobble (64.12.116.66) |
karen, you can e-mail me at FGbbl@aol.com | ||
| Anonymous (80.41.39.171) |
I find ron rhodes attitude very sedistic and unloving like most people he writes his stuff only for $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ | ||
| Danny Haszard (68.171.204.254) |
Jesus said,"happy are the pure in heart'.This means that i am brutally honest. I'm Danny Haszard from Bangor Maine USA.Former member of the abusive,Kingdom hall of Jehovah's witnesses Rockland Massachusetts USA. Exited out 1-5-92 was in for 33 years.I was 3rd generation,so they still are holding most of my family hostage.The Watchtower swindled most of my family assets,left me destitute at first but i have recovered much. The worst thing that high demand destructive Bible based cults do to their victims is they 'soul rape' you so you become angry at God. It's been called."surrogate displacement" rage.You become 'mad at the world' and it takes a long time to recover. God is good and gracious and i am stronger for it.I have a counter-cult home page please visit and browse.I am determined to provide education and support to warn others of these,'wolves in sheep's clothing'. peace, http://www.DannyHaszard.com | ||
| Anonymous (4.139.90.196) |
This a Cult from Hell, that destroyed my family, don't let them to get you! | ||
| Anonymous (192.55.20.36) |
Hello, I am Christian, i have JW friends that tell me i will go to hell if i dont join them. I am really scared. They want me to come to their hall and meet the elders. I dont know whay to do.. | ||
| Anonymous (199.79.176.65) |
I'm a Muslim and to be quite frank, any sister belonging to the Jehovah Witness community in my opinion, is a lady and carries herself as such. I believe women belonging to Islam, especially that which is led by Minister Farrakhan and the women belonging to the Jehovah's Witness community on the overall, are "lights and examples" for women throughout the world. Especially here in America. They are modest, often beautiful, fantastic manners, great housekeepers and not prone to loud, violent outbursts as you see demonstrated by today's black woman. If you don't agree with their doctrine, it's okay to disagree but one must give credit where it's due. If they have found something in their "walk" or study of scripture of value and they choose to "walk the word" instead of merely practice it on Sunday, fester unintelligent argument or use it to absolve rotational weakness in character, study it. | ||
| Anonymous (24.73.134.39) |
So if a woman cleans a house and does what you want, this is a good religion? Why don't you look up the suicide rate for Jehova women? You'll be shocked to see that most Jehova women are confused and feel so much pressure that they sometimes cannot bear it. Cults are bad for people and no matter how they appear on the outside, they are still in a cult, and the cult will not let them be free! | ||
| Anonymous (168.193.112.146) |
I have a good friend who is a JW. Should I consider that fact that she chooses to remain friends with me, a devout Catholic, a good thing...what are the rules for her about associating with an obvious "apostate"? ANy former JWs out there who can answer? | ||
| Anonymous (4.139.90.63) |
To 192 Don't go there, they are NOT your friends. | ||
| Anonymous (68.119.47.6) |
a person who has been saved by THE BLOOD OF JESUS WILL NEVER BE LOST ASK JESUS TO SAVE YOU AND BELEIVE IT IS DONE AND DONT LISTEN TO CULTS THAT TELL YOU OTHERWISE | ||
| jenny (152.163.253.102) |
i've read every entry here 2day & i must say it doesnt come 2 me as a shock. we're all imperfect humans who either are filld w/ hatered or are just unhappy people who can only make themselfs feel better be degrating whatever possible. i was rasied as a jw i hv deticated my 21yrs of life 2 serving jehova god & his son jesus christ i go door 2 door teaching people about the bible NOT BRAIN WASHING THEM LIKE SOME OF U SAY! we have morals & values like most people. we beleive 2 obey gods laws just as all people should obey there state laws. those who were jw for 20yrs or more & no longer are jw & are writing hateful things ask yourself in your heart why? what did u do 2 hate us so much? we are not taught 2 hate or kill or be hurtful 2 one another..we are taught opossite of that! we are taught 2 4give & 4get 2 love one another & even a young child who goes 2 school everyday what are they taught? they are taught 2 respect each other & those who are older. jesus gave his life 4 all of us not just us jw! & even if u read your own bible it says how jesus peached the word of god..& thats all we're tryn 2 do is follow jesus example & do his will! someone sd earlier about us not allowed 2 hang around any1 who isnt a jw..thats not how it is! i have plenty of friends who are no jw they're different religions & we respect each other. it is suggested 2 us that we dont associate w/ non beievers just like its suggest 2 us not 2marry a non-jw. you might be askn yourself why? if u tk a min 2 think about it doesnt doesnt every religon say that about gettn married! & doesnt every religon tell u hey bring ur friends! if u think about it wouldnt it be hard being married 2 some1 & not sharing the same beleifs. but lets say both of u r happy no matter what but lets say than u have a child what kinda of life will the both of u want 4 that innocent child? (NOT THE SAME KINDA LIFE) on one end one parent would want the child 2 celebrate all the holiday & yet the other parent wouldnt & because a child is only a child until 18yrs of age they cant decided for themself! (THAT WOULD BE A BROKEN HOME)am i wrong? as i sd earlier i was raised a jw all my life & till this day i always come up w/ new questions 2 ask! i have wonderful parents & even though i myself questiond things at times as a child i came 2 understand why we preach the word of god & his son jesus christ & why we have so many bible meetings! i as a child i would be made fun of spit at cursed at & laughed at but i always stayd strong because god is a loving one & its not him who makes people do things like that..god gives us life he does not hurt us or tk it away from us..its just this imperfect world i myself am imperfect yet as a child i never missed celebrating holiday or being part of the world which brings so much hate i just learned how 2 be my own person & knw my beleifs. i 4gv those who dont knw us & understand us or even want 2 understand us or want 2 hurt us even though we've never done anything 2 them. as a jw i look forward 2 going 2 the kindom hall because theres always gods love & our brothers & sisters there welcome all w/ open arms. WE ARE NOT A CULT OR A SECT & WE ARE NOT HARMFUL PEOPLE..i dont knw why some of u say we're dangerous..thats pretty silly because if we dont even beleive in killing some1 how are we possible dangerous WHAT BY SAYING KIND WORDS does that really hurt? others of u say we ruin your life. how can we possible ruin your life? no one can force you 2 do anything u dont want! just like whn they teach u in school 2 say no 2 drugs its up 2 u 2 say no thanks! so im truely sorry 4 any of u who feel that way about us & must say we're such dangerous people. we are very loving people who only want 2 teach the word of god & his son jesues chist If u have any questions feel free 2 email me @ jmv613@yahoo.com | ||
| Anonymous (211.29.2.153) |
friday oct 1 10:29pm Jehovah's witnesses are I feel a christian based cult which do not follow rules of engagement in the religious sence. They may seem very nice to your face yet joining them shows that a darker side comes out when you least expect it. No longer with these people because of the on going issue of child abuse sexual and physical. Hidding behind a mirror of god and being false to all including themselves, these perpetrators (offenders) seem to always flourish without detection from the general public, police and the court system. If you are a victim of child sex abuse in Jehovah's witnesses help others out by telling other out of there religion about what is going on inside there religion dealing with child abuse. Cover ups are a large part of this organisation who say they are good people. Be real you who are offenders and take yourselves to be handed into the police and not to hide behind your so called Jehovah's witness religion. Abusing a child is a crime and the law of the land needs to be put in motion. I've spoken to those who have been sexually abused by this group and find that they seem to be to blame for the abuse which has happened to them. Get real you Jehovah's witnesses sex offenders are real and in large numbers and letting the net fall to expose them to the world would be the best medicine a victim may recieve and seeing being delt with accordingly. They are not all pillars of the community and this would include as well female abusers just like the male abusers in physical and sexual abuses. Be what is okay for you, those who would and are making changes away from the cult like practices of Jehovah's wittness. Offenders do now what they are doing to there victim (child), they watch, talk and groom there victims and later when challenged say, "their is nothing wrong with me doing this I am teaching them about sex. They ask for it by the way they act (the child). A child or older child to not ask for these events to occur in there lives. They are young and vulnerable and are taken advantage of.Child sexual abuse needs to put out their to show that these offenders not only take the childs innosence. They also steal there very life from them, meaning some overcome the abuses to move on in their lives, some say locked in at time of the abuse and join the mental health system overflow or not the least be the victim of there own death by suicide. Yet these Offenders(Perpetrators) walk away as if nothing has ever happened. These offenders in Jehovah's witnesses do nothing wrong in the eyes of there so called god and to it's people. So don't tell me they are good people. Good people don't hide abuse and blame the victims, this is a good example of the truth will set you free. Even the best of them will hide the abuse, ignore the cry's of their hidden victims. This is real witnesses are offenders and need to be exposed for there lies to you and I the victims of their crime (CHILD SEXUAL ABUSE). | ||
| sableindian (sableindian) New member Username: sableindian Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.173.156.101 |
I was a JW for over 30 years. I divorced because I found evidence of adultery. I gave the evidence to the elders, they confronted my husband, he denied it...case closed. (I have no animosity against my ex-husband who is still a JW). I was never in any trouble as far as 'sinning'. But, I was outspoken and also a good researcher and reader. I was considered a 'rebel' and out of line with the uni-thinkers. What happened? I decided to remarry. Yes, remarry while my ex-husband stayed single. That, my friends, is called adultery. I chuckle at the thought that if a person remarries and they repent, can they really come back since the sin is always there as long as you are still remarried. Ahhh, a paradox indeed. I still love Jehovah and I have returned to Judaism with a new light and understanding. I have nothing against JWs and I am willing to speak to them, which, scripturally I can. (Remember the ban is for them and not for disfellowshipped) but they just don't want to talk.  | ||
| virushead (virushead) New member Username: virushead Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.34.237.36 |
I have a page of good-natured advice if you are a recovering JW. I am a former JW, and have a few helpful tips for how to navigate the very difficult in-between stage when many, shunned by the group, believe they will be attacked by demons, etc. You can define your own relationship with God (or not) - not pushing anything. Only want to tell you the things I learned and what I wish somone had told me. Take a break from the vitriol. http://www.virushead.net/exjw.html | ||
| lambsmarch (lambsmarch) New member Username: lambsmarch Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 66.248.18.124 |
Just to make a note relevant to the original topic of this thread (in 2002) I would like to make people aware that this issue is far from dead and buried. On the contrary, since the airing of this program, a number of legal actions have proceeded against Watchtower, including some victories by victims in Canada with one other lawsuit still ongoing. A good deal of public education work was done since then, including quite a bit of picketing in several states in the past 16 weeks alone. A number of JW children have died due to Watchtower's mental health and child abuse reporting policies, more JW abusers are now serving time-and a few are not and are loose on the streets now-an effort is being made by determined volunteers to monitor these dangerous persons. There have beena number of seminars in the last year, and more are planned for spring and fall/winter of 2005. Large demonstrations are planned in Canada and U.S. in late 2005. More discussion areas have sprung up in just the last few weeks I cannot keep track of them all, the diversity assures there is a place for just about anyone to vent and exchange information. Watchtower's donations, adherents have fallen substantially around the world and sales of their properties have exploded. And to all the children who have lost their lives to watchtower policies,(we call them LostLambs) and whose voices we can't hear right now: You will not be forgotten. | ||
| jeebs98 (jeebs98) New member Username: jeebs98 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 67.137.10.194 |
Could someone direct me to where to find lists of things (including the legal decisions that make them legal) that JWs have a *legal right* to dismiss themselves from in a public school}? Thanks! JW | ||
| lexlex (lexlex) New member Username: lexlex Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.94.223.210 |
I've never posted on a message board like this before and I know that no matter what i say it's not going to change how many of you feel about Jehovah's Witnesses and for that reason part of me feels like i shouldn't even try, but since i feel so strongly about this subject i feel compelled to at least post my feelings. I have been raised a Jehovah's Witness all my life and so have both of my parents. And yes, i did grow up different than a lot of kids i went to school with. I didn't celebrate birthdays or holidays and i left the classroom a lot during these times, but in no way was i mistreated. In no way was i unloved or deprived. My family always sat down and reasoned with me as to why they felt the way they did about certain practices and always encouraged me to do my own personal study to hopefully feel the same way they did. As a child though we accept guidance from our parents. We like to follow what they do. All little kids are like that with not just religion. Baptism was such a personal decision for me. Never was it even implied that it was time for me to be baptized, but in my heart that is what i wanted. I was 16 almost 17 years old. I was not baptized as a baby. Through the more recent years i have seen a lot of the world. My family has been through a lot and so have I. I am in no way clueless to what goes on and am in no way brainwashed by devoting at most 5 hours a week at meetings. More recently, i've loved going to meetings. Even if i'm tired and down from the day I know it is a place i can go to feel upbuilt and relaxed. This is why i feel like i should post because i am not at all one sided to this matter though. i can see very very clearly both sides of the story. Jehovah's Witnesses are imperfect and so is the organization, just like everyone else on the face of the earth. So, people will always interpret things being said on the platform differently. There will always be the extremeists. What i've learned through the past few years is that you don't worship God for people. You worship God because you love him. I am a Jehovah's Witness because i love Jehovah our God, the maker of us all. The reason we are even all here posting on this board today. Sure, i've had opportunities to be stumbled by individual humans and sure i have, but at the end of the day i serve Jehovah for Jehovah not for people. And yes it is hard to hold to certain standards and we all fall short everyday, but I've been so close to so many crazy things over the past few years and now i can truly see what a blessing it is to have a relationship with Jehovah. Partying and everything that goes along with it may seem fun for a while, but it is very unfullfilling. If you look at so many people they are so unhappy and have huge problems that i am so thankful for not having at my age. And I'm so thankful that i have a religion that can answer the questions i have and i do not feel in the dark. I know that many of you will disagree and feel like it doesn't answer your questions, but it does answer mine..at least the best that any religion can that is currently out there. We are always encouraged not discouraged to do personal research to read the bible daily and do our own reasoning. I know that some of you say that it is a religion of fear. But that is only the case if you are afraid of being punished by a man. It is not a religion that places a fear of God. We do not even believe in hell as a fiery place. I am so relieved that i don't sit around feeling like i will go there. And we emphasize over and over again that Jehovah God is a loving god that foregives us each and every day and that is how we are suppose to be to each other. Even though some Witnesses do not practice that. But again in no way are they practicing what Jehovah is teaching they are acting from an imperfect standpoint. It seems to me that when anything bad happens in this religion it is brought out to the forefront. Maybe because in general not that many bad things go on and most people that profess to be Witnesses and actually take to heart what they hear are good people. In fact, you probably work with many or have them as neighbors and you may even like them not knowing that they are Witnesses. As far as us annoying you by knocking on your doors, well, you have to remember that there are still many people out there with no guidance and no knowledge of God that are thankful that someone is there willing to take the time out to study the bible with them, even when the majority of time doors are being slammed in our face. I could honestly go on and on about this because again I feel so strongly about it. But i guess i'm just here to emphasize the fact that Jehovah is a loving God and that is what we are taught. We are taught not to be judgemental people and i am not, and if someone you know is then they aren't fully listening to what they are being taught. And like in any religion or just people in general we are all there for the same reason to serve God and live happy, healthy lives. | ||
| summerwind2003 (summerwind2003) New member Username: summerwind2003 Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 66.68.93.38 |
I've been studying with the witnessess off & on since 2003. I started going to a baptist church since 1992. I like going to the kingdom halls & I get the messages of God. Personally speaking this is the only congregation with UNITY. I've been to other denominations while also going to the hall.People speaking against witnesses , its only their opinions. I believe you should follow Jesus & the witnesses I know, do. Don'tlet satan use familiar voices to bring you down. If the congegation is treating you right,& you're getting fed spiritually then stay.If they're not go to where you are fed spiritually. God wants us to lean to him NOT MAN! Also F.Y.I. Other churches have bad things circulating too, but noone pays attention to them. Bottom line, if joining the witnesses helps you grow in your spiritual walk GO FOR IT, IF NOT-Then find a church home that does. | ||
| stella (stella) Junior Member Username: stella Post Number: 32 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 68.52.190.227 |
I think they should be hanged in the town square! | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Junior Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 42 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Stella: Once again, you express yourself with such dignity as the true Christian you are !!! - O for more of you!! - and you wonder why religion has a bad name - I suppose I'll be reading your posts that all Muslims, Jews etc (and don't forget all the men). who do not believe the same, firstly watered down, then bitterly twisted version of Gods word as you should be slaughtered in front of the world on the 10 O'clock news - you as chief executioner, free of charge of course. I am sorry to again have to correct something I have posted before, but you really must grow up. The hatred, and bitterness you express is in no way condusive to either sensible discussion (though I see you are not interested in anything that is said unless in line with your thoughts)or a constructive relationship with God - do you let off at Him this way too? It is clear that you replace your lack of knowledge with a nasty attitude, and simply feel that if you throw enough mud at someone / something it will stick, and you will be justified. My unbrainwashed, sensible, literate 8 year old - JOE - laughs when he reads your postings, even he understands the lack of substance in your comments. Though I suppose, where would the world be without the likes of you - remember the Saviours reference to whitened sepulchres? | ||
| praetorian (praetorian) New member Username: praetorian Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 12.103.171.221 |
MUCH TO DO ABOUT NOTHING I am a disfellowshiped JW and thought I would, for the fun of it include my two cents…. One Penny: A kind woman who was known for never having anything bad about anyone, was approached by a person who said, ‘I know someone you cannot say anything good about’…..After a moment, she said, then I don’t want to know, and immediately the person said, ‘Satan The Devil’……And the women thought for a moment and said……’He’s a hard worker!’ Second Penny: If the general consensus is Christians believe that all or most roads lead you to God, and JW’s do not, then ponder; Under the belief systems of general Christians, JW’s are saved! Good and Bad are found in and among all people and belief systems, Christ himself had his own bad egg, Judas Iscariot, but that does not did not make Christ wrong or bad! If Judas had written a book entitled “Proof Jesus is not the Messiah, from a man who knows”, I can tell you that none of the other apostles or those that new Jesus and believed in him, would have bought or started to re-think what they knew of Jesus, as is suggested by the people of this board. I close my comments by quoting the words of a non Christian, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, in Acts 5: 38 and 39, “And so, under the present circumstances, I say to YOU, Do no meddle with this men, but let them alone (because, if this scheme or this work is from men, it will be overthrown, but if it is from God, YOU will not be able to overthrow them) otherwise, YOU may perhaps be found fighters against God.” | ||
| linda21 (linda21) New member Username: linda21 Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.98.211.121 |
How many of the above comments come from the Bible? Most of it is he said/she said; this happened to me/ this happened to my family. There are consequences because we live in sin, and a lot of you dwell on those consequences rather than answeres from the bible. Ask youself, how much of the bible have I read and understand? David was someone in the bible who had consequences for his sins but yet still remained loyal to Jehovah. He even went to the point of fornicating with another mans wife, and having her husband put in the front lines of battle to be killed! And because of this David experienced many problems and CONSEQUENCES because of his actions. But David did not blame his religion on his problems. He stayed loyal to God Jehovah. Why is this not being discussed? And if the organization is really "brainwashing" their followers, then what is their goal? It is not money, since they do not demand donations, and none of the positions thoughout the organization make a wage. Their kindom halls (places of worship) are not luxurious. They do not get paid for going door to door! Is it power? No one in the religion claims to be more important than the next, in fact the elders of the religion are more humble than most. No one at headquarters are looking for prominent positions within society or the organization... Is it politics? If you know a JW, then you know that the only government they believe in is Gods? So I ask you? What is the motivation for brainwashing? And what many of you are not hearing are the good experiences that come from JW's. Let's talk about the majority of the witnesses... They are always kind people are they not? Their children are well behaved, are they not? They are clean, meek, and humble... But they never try to make praise for themselves. And that is why, what most people hear is the bad, always the bad (most of it not true). Witnesses beleive that from the bible the more important issue is staying loyal to Jehovah, and one of Jehovah's comandments for his servents is to preach and teach the good news. The bible says "You must obey god as ruler, rather than man" (Acts 5:29) So do they worry about what man says about them? A true witness does not fear any man, only Jehovah. So next time you see a witness at the door, know that they are searching for those who want to more about the BIBLE, and what it says... not cult teachings. What hope do you have? | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) New member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 66.141.211.88 |
for all those of you who have affiliations with the jws and want to continue to be in good standing you should be aware that the organization frowns on interactions with groups like this and in general really doesn't want "too much" time spent on the internet-just ask an elder (if you dare) what he thinks of internet chatting... anyhow, thats all I have to say for now. | ||
| truthseen (truthseen) New member Username: truthseen Post Number: 13 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 146.243.221.135 |
Wow, I've been reading this blog. I did not know the JWs are so barricaded. I've been responding on the "Former SDA(Seventh-Day-Adventist)" blog and wow. Incredible. And I have relatives that belong to this organization and the JWs ring my bell often. My interest in comming hear was connected with history. The JWs are a off-shoot of SDA's. SDA's are an off-shoot of the Millerite movement and it's all based on a lie and misinformation. People, step into the light. It is a sad state affairs that we have so much money in this country that idividuals whose existence on this earth is only human can interprete, promise, prophetise and consider themselves more righteous for one reason and one reason only. THE ALMIGHTY DOLLAR. Every manipulative belief system has a prerequisite giving clause. Beleive you me, if you don't give, you're out. That's it. Don't give, don't come. Wake up. Your man Russell was an SDA. He broke off from the SDA Church to gain his own influence. Read about it but you won't find the truth of the JWs in the Bible. It stated in the late 1800's I beleive. By the way, what's this child abuse stuff? Truthseen | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) New member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.200 |
There was an all revealing "dateline" program on a couple of years ago that revealed massive abuses by elders to younger members of the congregation- much like what has happened in the catholic church- many of us thought that this was just isolated incidents on a local level but the program showed that there have been records of a lot of the abuses and these incidents have been largely ignored by the headquarters or handled by a local body of elders in secrecy- on the show there were high ranking jws who were able to produce the evidence that the "governing Body" had knowledge of such events! anyway that is what my knowledge of the show is- | ||
| michael1970 (michael1970) New member Username: michael1970 Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 64.136.49.227 |
Having read the vast majority of the posts on this site,I find two sides. Those who dispise the JW and those who dont. Not one post have I seen that seeks the truth. Do you people realize how messed up things are for those of us, myelf included, who are in a marriage with someone, who decides to convert to JW??? My marriage is failing, my children think because I celebrate the day they were born Im going to hell, my parents have their hearts broken every "traditional" holiday by the grandchildren they love most, and my wife just wants to be a good woman. My parents curse her, and me for wanting my marriage to work. Ive read a lot of posts that say dont or get out now, but no one tells me why. What are you hiding? I need to know what made those of you leave the JW so maybe there will be a chance I can convince my wife to leave. I was brought up a Christian but Ive been to many "churches" with many beliefs. I feel more non denominational now for the simple fact that all Ive heard anyone do is cut someone else down. I believe that there is but one God and he is a merciful God, a chastising God, a loving God. I put the burden of proof on you that have left the JW, help me help my wife...arm me with your discoveries or keep your mouths shut and know that you could have helped to save a marriage that God put together. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) New member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.220 |
Michael 1970, I will tell you my thoughts and reasons for leaving the witnesses and you can do what you want with the information... Is your wife a baptized witness? well anyway, I hope this will help- first of all, someone who is willing to "follow" all the rules (ie dress how you are told to- cut off all associations outside the org. except for the minimal contact needed to function, to put the org. and preaching first and foremost, for men-no beards, children are not encouraged to go to college- do not read religious materials outside the org- no "r" rated movies etc. etc. ) basically you are told how you are to react to all situations and what to think about those by the society... any who are willing to do what I just mentioned will do just fine in the Jws. However, if you are a person that believes that God gave individuals reasoning ability and that people should have a choice on matters that are not clearly stated in the bible- like beards etc. then you will have a hard time in the org. bacause you are to accept elder counsel on all matters and in the org. there is not much room for individuality or would be questioners of the rule system. Also, in families, if the teenagers get into a little bit of "typical teenage behavior" and they are baptized they can be disfellowshipped which in some cases of adults and teens has led to suicide because the witnesses put them out and frown on family association with them and it shoots their self esteem to you know where... About the molestation... if that is what you are wondering about, in my own congregation in a small town in VA there were three elders involved in different cases of molestation. One was disfellowshipped but because the other two are "good ole Boys" within the congregation they remain elders- at least they were still when I lived there- the abuse scandals get handled behind closed doors in secret meetings so we hear the whispers of what has gone on but the org. is very secretive in its handling of judicial matters and most often they feel that they are acting as Gods reps. on earth to make judicial decisions therefore they have no need to bother the secular system (police etc.) with such matters. this isn't everything but it is agood start about why you have reason to want to get your family out of the Jws. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) New member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 12 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
To any one interseted in jw.'s I was a jw for 10 years ,I have been out for some time now, but i have adult children that are still jw's & in all honesty i can say that they have many good people that truely believe that what they do is good & that it is what God wants, but they also have hypocrites.my faith in that religion was shaken but my love for God is steadfast. They have told my children to have nothing to do with me & that they can not even pray for me because God will not here any prayers in my behalf, This is tearing my children apart because they love me but they also believe in their religion.make up your own mind, do you call that Christian. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) New member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 13 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
linda21 you say that the elders are more humble than most, which K. hall did you go to, because it was'nt the same one i went to. infact some of the elders in this hall loved the power over "the flock"* spiritly abused them. I know this for a fact! I could point out so many untruths in your statements that it's not funny. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 432 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.100.9 |
Who is Jesus to a Jehovah Witness? | ||
| needinfo (needinfo) New member Username: needinfo Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 4.227.113.144 |
JW's break up families. How christian is that. i should know cause my parents are JW's. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) New member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.178 |
Franklin, just to answer your question... JWs believe Jesus to be the son of God and the mediator between God and man -however, although they do not state it directly their actions reveal that they "judge" people as being worthy or not of Jesus sacrifice and Gods gift of everlasting life- instead of really looking at John 3:16 and seeing that God gave his only begotten that the world may get everlasting life ,witnesses do their own judging in that area... also this is to comment on whether the elders are humble or not... any who are humble don't last very long- the JW system of appointments is very much like the corporate world- I know because my father and ex-husband were elders... the world that the "elders" are in is different than the front that the regular folk see... Also, I was a pioneer for many years and there are meetings and books pioneers can have but not publishers, books that elders get that are not available to the pubs... so it is a very secretive org in its deeper inner circles- | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 149 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.106.221 |
marilyn_m ...Well I really can not hear Jesus telling my children not to pray for me, I am almost sure he wanted us to honor our father and mother. Maybe he meant honor them unless the jws said not to. I think it was one of the ten commandment not one of the ten suggestions. Why would Jesus tell us to love our enemy and do good to those that hate us but tell us not to pray for our parents. I just find the whole things strange, shunning, very non Christian. If Jesus does it , I will to but until then its love others and I do unto them as I would have them do unto me, and I would not want to be shunned. Sorry for your pain I can not imagine that anyone would ask such of one of Gods children. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) New member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.37.164 |
Sharon, I agree with you... Even some of Jesus' own brothers did not accept that he was the Messiah until later, but never do we read that he wanted the family to shun them-the whole act of breaking up families and shunning outsiders seems very judgemental and in fact insecure on the witnesses part in that they cannot read outside literature or enter other churches- if they really have the truth then that would be confirmed to them through comparisons of other beliefs- but the headquarters instruct the elders to keep the "flock" contained- | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) New member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 15 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
Sharon,thank you for your kind words & luviberty for your imput. luvliberty, on your point of not being able to enter other churches, i had that happened to me when my grandfather died. i was young & thought that what the elders told me was right & so i was unable to enter the church for his funeral. As a young women who was very close to my grandfather, that felt at the time like my heart was being ripped out & though i try to forgive, i can never forget the extreme pain that caused me.i can never go back & do what i should have done that day. I advise anyone else in that spot not to make the same mistake i did, because you will have a whole life time to regrete it. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) New member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 16 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
luvliberty, on your point of child abuse,don't even get me started, people who abuse children really piss me off & it is not just the elders either,i had a jw friend & she told me that when her & her step sister were young that her father would sexually abuse her step sister in front of her & when the problem was taken before the elders, they protected him & called her & her sister liars. She is not a jw any more. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) New member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 17 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
thank you lambsmarch for that info, good to know that at least some of the guilty are paying .These animals have been hiding behind jw's for far too long & thought that they were out of the reach of the law.Many of them still have their jw friends convinced that they are innocent, i've seen too many things go on behind closed doors to pretent that it does'nt exsist. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) New member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 19 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
jw's like any other religion have their good & their bad & some people do hide behind them because they portray themselves as good upstanding people when they deal with the public, but many of them live double lives ( just as people in other religions do too ) some of them are very nice people but i've meet some very nice catholics too. If you think however that they are without fault just read the book:"Wolves amoung sheep" A good friend got me this book & I related to it on so many levels. | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 151 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.93.40 |
marilyn_m ...Well that is very interesting, and very sad. I can not believe that such things are still going on but it is because like the Mormons they set themselves up in an environment in which outsiders can not look. I fear any religion who does not have an open door policy. I do not know a whole lot about your old religion. I was wondering I know when a woman in jw gets into a spot of trouble the men all get together and question her , is that so. Does she get to have her husband present, what if he is not jw. I know that a woman can not hold any office in that church . Or do I have that wrong, My big question and one I always really wanted to know is do they believe the people in other churches are saved. I have heard this but I do not know if was from a reliable source and I do not want to make a mistake. I am not being nosy but all religion interests me. You do not have to answer and I shall not mind in the least. I am very sorry about your grandfather, at least you have warned others of this possibly happening to them. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) New member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 21 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
Sharor, in answer to your questions,They do not believe that any is saved unless they are jw nd yes the elders (usually 2 or3) will question any one they feel has broke the rules, they are suppose to have your husband present but one time i stuck up for a friend because she told an elder that his family was wearing perfume to the meetings and it made her very ill.(this was after that very same elder had asked all the rest of us not to wear perfume to the meetings.)I went to the elders wife who was a friend of mine( I thought)and she told her husband who then halled me in a back room alone & waved the bible in my face and told me to mind my own bussiness.My husband was not ask to be present | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 164 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.93.40 |
marilyn_m ... The dickens you say. Thank you for your candor. I had heard such and just wanted to check. I think it is case of bad apples. Power corrupts and this church has a large power base. They could fix that but it is not likely. Again thanks. May God Bless you. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) New member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 22 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.157 |
yeah, they definitely feel they are the only true religion... I am so sorry to hear about the missed opportunity at your grandfathers funeral- a lot of us are kicking ourselves for allowing that org. to have so much power over us at the time- | ||
| joesdad (joesdad) Intermediate Member Username: joesdad Post Number: 202 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 62.253.215.25 |
Sharon - out of interest (for the moment), what would you consider being a sufficient "open door policy"? (no guile - I am LDS and your comment interests me | ||
| sharon (sharon) Intermediate Member Username: sharon Post Number: 166 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.92.130 |
joesdad (joesdad... that doors are kept open. Just kidding. First that members be allowed in other churches. Like the lady above said she could not even attend her grandfathers funeral. That is a shame. It shows fear when a religion will not let you inside of a Christian church. It does not matter what that fear is, to the world it shows fear. But I do not say that your church is like this, maybe it is all good men who are in your church. But as you know it only takes one rotten apple. So what I mean is the door swings both ways. As Marilyn stated she was taken in a room and questioned by a man she did not trust and felt violated by the experience. That is not an open door policy. Your church is not the only one with this problem, when you give any man power you are tempting him to abuse it. I think that there are many wonderful people of God in your church, and like all churches many bad apples. I hope I did not offend you, I am rather inquisitive and want to know why people are leaving the churches. You can read why on these pages and as I said these things could be fixed so that everyone feels comfortable in Gods house. As you can see Children see the deception of the elders, and they are aware of it. one way for some and one way for others. Also the abuse being handled behind closed doors is now out in the open but it is a little late for that. Bad publicity, did not do the Catholic church much good either. Image was more important than children. Jesus would not like that. I just wish changes could come before the ugly truth comes out in front of the world. But that usually does not happen, and a church loses its reputation because of the few. I know that many people have been saved by you knocking on doors, and I love that you are out there. Especially in this time of need. I have no problem with any church working as hard as your church does. I think it a crime that so few can cause such a horrible rift. Then who knows next time a person complains they are being abuse the church will listen before the abused has to go to the media. Heres hoping. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Junior Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 28 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
Your welcome Sharon, just keep in mind that i can only speak for myself & what has happened to me. Many people are happy in that religion & there are good people there but you are right about a few bad apples & them letting power get the best of them, sadly I've seen it happen. | ||
| tlmtn (tlmtn) New member Username: tlmtn Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 64.16.181.83 |
Micheal1970, I was born and raised a JW, as I grew up my parent became inactive members. So I ended up marring a Bapist. I would augue about religon and I knew I was right. It took about 6years for my views to change. I have been saved and going to Southern baptist church. One thing that helped me change my beliefs was my husband asked if I ever researched the start of the JW's. I thought he is right I would not buy a car without doing some researching. I thought why would I put my soul on something I never researched. Another thing started to bug me was I know my husband believed if you aren't saved you will go to hell. It really made me upset. I was scared of death at that point. And I had to ask Why? I still a sturggle with my faith. I know I am saved. And Jesus died for me on a cross and everyone else. I would prey for your wife and beloving on this issue. Keep in mind JW do use brain washing tech. I still have guilt issues I deal with and they put the organized into the organization. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Junior Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 30 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.213 |
i think the jws (and probably others like them) have mastered the trickery because they do invite "anyone" to come as they are to the meetings... and they fall all over those people until they are baptized... see when baptism occurs, pubs. and pioneers can no longer "count" their "time" on that person- that is when the shift begins and you are put on an endless treadmill of preach, teach, study, attend meetings and do whatever else is expected of you- also, as was mentioned before about the secrecy and closed doors... well the jws definitely frown on college attendance- doesnt that kind of send a strange message that they do not want their people to be educated beyond being able to read etc? they claim that higher education corrupts the thinking. hmmmm....another strange thing is that a person is really encouraged to stick to working part time if possible and put "the Kingdom and the ministry" first. I am all for putting God first but I think he understands that we have to work- and for most of us that means a full time job to support our family. Like I said, this stuff is impressed upon you after you have made your committments. Strange! | ||
| truthseen (truthseen) New member Username: truthseen Post Number: 24 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 146.243.221.150 |
Think of it like this, FOLLOW THE MONEY! PEOPLE! WAKE UP! IT IS ALL ABOUT MONEY! Don't let them get your money. Give to those who YOU yourself find to be of need. In alot of these religions, your money is used to make more money, to pay salaries, to buy real estate. WAKE UP! Do not let anyone make you feel guilty for not "giving" something to them. IT IS YOURS! Truthseen | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Junior Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 45 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 192.173.39.44 |
i agree about the money situation- the last assembly i attended was in a building owned by jws and for only one day, about 1000 persons in attendance, and no food served... at the end of the day after all the donations had been collected they still needed over 10,000 dollars! hmmmm... but even aside from the money, they love the control over peoples lives. | ||
| pendino (pendino) New member Username: pendino Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 202.67.65.166 |
I am still a jehovah's witness and my entire family is fanatical about it all,but the experiences that I incured as one is too much proof that this is definetly not the truth and ofcourse all that material that goes against their beleifs.My entire family has been through hell with this religion and still trying to cope with it,so whatever good u say about this religion-don't bother because I just have too much proof of their lies and hidden agendas.I wont say too much more, for the reason I got on to this site is to find someone is willing to relate their storie to me about their ordeal of been shunned or sexually abused as one of jehovah's witnesses, c'ause I have set up a meeting with a tv station that will expose on prime time everything about the witnesses and I expect to be disfelloshipped for it because I for the first time in this country of Australia intend to show my face.Please e-mail me on salatinofran@aol.com | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Junior Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 39 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
luvliberty, thank you for your comment on my Grandfather. | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Junior Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 40 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
I have done research on where JW's started : The founding father of the Jehovah's Witnesses was Charles Taize Russell (1852—1916). Russell came to the conclusion that Christianity was not the correct way to understand the Bible. He made contact with groups (known as Adventists) who emphasized the immediate return of Christ. Russell began a series of Bible studies and started to gather followers. Russell agreed with the Adventists' predictions that Christ would return during 1873—1874. When that did not happen, Russell predicted more times for Jesus' return-all of which proved to be false, of course. Eventually, in 1884, Russell officially incorporated the "Zion's Watchtower Bible and Tract Society." Twelve years later, the word "Zion" was dropped. In 1908, Russell moved his organization to Brooklyn, New York. Toward the end of his life, Russell lost considerable respect among his followers because of a number of slander cases he lost in court. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 133 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.213 |
Marilyn m, I am sorry, I just realized who you are and your posts- please disregard my question about you being a witness on one of the other threads- | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Junior Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 49 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
no problem girl, we all make mistakes.i don't think i've read that post yet though. | ||
| fishgirl (fishgirl) New member Username: fishgirl Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 67.160.124.76 |
hi all, i am new to this site today and just have a few comments. a couple of years ago i met a woman through my childrens school. i hadn't been to church in quite a few years, although i never lost my spirituality. my husband and myself actually bought a house from a jw who had lost her husband and remarried. the gal i met at my daughters school and i would chat harmlessly about religion, (one of the two things we are taught not to discuss!). my daughter felt bad in first grade when her son wouldn't do the flag salute and he would also giggle. i explained to my daughter that we are so fortunate to live in a place where we have freedom of religion. her son was probably just embarrassed to be the only child in the classroom sitting. i talked with my now friend about this. she said that the bible says we are to pledge our allegience to jehova. that was her decision and i thought how interesting. now, since being in a former jw's house, you know they came a knockin'. i would always chat with them and give them my persepective. that was much to my husband's chagrin. they love to show scriptures and bounce around so much that it is hard to come up with any kind of defense. my girlfriend would stop by also on different days to give me tracts. we have a great relationship. i told her great, that i needed kindling for firestarter. she laughs, calls me pagan etc... i started my kids at a church some friends went to so that they had the experience that i did as a child in church. i loved it. now my kids love wednesdays for the clubs they attend and i get my time to study scripture. i asked the pastor what to do about my friendship with a jw. he gave me a book called Understanding the Cults. i asked him if jw's were considered a cult and he said yes. one must believe in the trinity. any who think they are god like or refuse to worship jesus "because he's a mere mortal" or an angel are not saved. that really bothered me. more talking with my girlfriend who is the absolute sweetest thing and she's married to an elder. i have other books that i have read pro and against jehova's wittnesses and mormans. i feel strongly that i am in the right place for myself and for me kids. it is now up to me to speak about the things i have learned. the most recent book i have read is called }Index of Watchtower Errors) written by David A. Reed. were jw's allowed to read what their own watchtower society prophesied they would be amazed. i suggest doing it in secret if you must, but it gives the month, the year and the page that certain things they firmly stood on are located. funny how they can say that our plege of allegience to the flag is a horror and you would be disfellowed if you saluted it. Their own watchtower of 5/15/1917 says..."everyone in America should take pleasure in displaying the American flag." hmmm... They like to back off from saying that the lord had decided 1914 would be the date of His return. Then it was pushed back to 1925, but now also saying that "this may be accomplished. It may not be." i find it's always nice to have a way out. If brother russell was truly the mouthpiece of god, he wouldn't have gotten it wrong. in a 1926 watchtower 12/15/1926 on page 371 it said Christmas is so important, regardless of the date. They used to like pyramids, now they don't. No vaccinations in 1931 (countless people died because of this), but come the 1960's it's allowed. No organ donation, (they think it's cannibalism), but NOW it's okay. How can anyone possibly read these watchtower words contradict themselves over and over and believe in this organization. My girlfriend must be a kook. I know that she isn't, but since no one is allowed to read or attend anything other than what is sanctioned by the organization, i can't fault her. i just keep on praying and reading and readying myself so i don't sound so stupid when talking with any of them. One sad thing about my friendship that i am realizing and will confront her with is that i read also in the book afore mentioned on 5/15/1969 watchtower "Since there is such a short time left, study no longer than six months with a prospective convert". After reading this I had come to realize that when i try to bring up a conversation in regards to religion she says that i just want to argue. They don't come a knockin' anymore either. I wonder what kind of christian group just drops a person because they want to have more specific answers. I am very nice because you will never get anywhere by arguing or shutting the door in their face. I have to be patient and kind and non-threatening. i won't give up because i think she's a great person who really wants to do good, but got stuck in there during a troubled childhood. jw's do not go for non christian converts. they will always try to convince a person by jumping around the scriptures that they are the only ones in the truth. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 144 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.225 |
fishgirl, all of us who have been a Jw at one time or another have friends and most have family that are still part of the organization and the only way a witness will leave is if they start to have doubts on their own and begin to research it on their own-i can tell from what you posted that you are not an "arguer" for the sake of arguing but rather are an investigator of truth and answers- unfortunately, independent abilities are not desired qualities for prospective JWs- however, one reasoning point you could use on the witnesses when they say that you are looking to argue is this... the witnesses use Acts 17:11 in reference to examining the scriptures- it is where Paul was in Borea and the Boreans did not just take Pauls word for things but looked up the information for themselves- Paul even praises them for their search... you could just say that you are doing the same thing- examining the scriptures to see if these things are so- Good luck with your friend! | ||
| adonijah (adonijah) New member Username: adonijah Post Number: 8 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 64.60.80.214 |
all of us who have been a Jw at one time or another have friends and most have family that are still part of the organization and the only way a witness will leave is if they start to have doubts on their own and begin to research it on their own-i can tell from what you posted that you are not an "arguer" for the sake of arguing but rather are an investigator of truth and answers- unfortunately, independent abilities are not desired qualities for prospective JWs- however, one reasoning point you could use on the witnesses when they say that you are looking to argue is this... the witnesses use Acts 17:11 in reference to examining the scriptures- it is where Paul was in Borea and the Boreans did not just take Pauls word for things but looked up the information for themselves- Paul even praises them for their search... you could just say that you are doing the same thing- examining the scriptures to see if these things are so- Good luck with your friend! Wow LUVLIBERTY, how far from the truth is you statments, that's how I decided this was the truth by researching everything from the blood issues to why we can not wear beards(in this country at least), and I never once been told that I was arguing. However, your probably drawing on personal experiances you've had. Did it ever accure to you that you were being tested on obediance and that perhaps it was a weakness of your prior to becoming a JW, I know it was a weakness of mine (and still is, why else would I be responding to your comments),I had to "learn" obediance (just like Jesus). Would you past or failed that test? consider my inquiry please. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 155 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.183.171.165 |
Where in the bible does it say men could not wear beards and does it Specifically name the U.S? If its not in the Bible then where did it come from? My above comments were really for 'FISHGIRL" who said that because she has begun to question certain doctrines of the JWs they said she was looking to argue- I am glad you have had a delightful experience with them- as far as it being a weakness of mine prior to becoming a witness- I was raised a JW so... I really do not understand how that relates or what you are driving at- I am considering your inquiry but think I need you to elaborate on your points a little- | ||
| adonijah (adonijah) New member Username: adonijah Post Number: 16 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 64.60.80.254 |
luvliberty, You know what, I've said too much, I have to go, I've run out of time. I hope we meet again in the future, until then... | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 84 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
luvliberty (luvliberty), How are you?Have not heard from you in awhile. It's too bad that adonijah took off, I would have liked to seen a reply to the question on beards. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 160 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 68.91.9.207 |
Hola Marilyn_m! I have been in Mexico for almost 2 months studying abroad, however I see that the threads on JWs are alive and thriving. So I see that Adonijah is gone... I wanted to hear from him also.do you think he was an elder? I was a little confused as to some of his replies... like in the one post he put... " I am flattered that you think I am not an elder..." I don't know if that is a typo or if he meant something else. anyhow, glad to be back here on fact net. I am very far behind in the news and goings on at factnet. | ||
| rebel8 (rebel8) New member Username: rebel8 Post Number: 14 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 139.127.189.218 |
fishgirl's comments are actually quite accurate. Sadly, cults commonly fall back upon obedience (to men that is) when logic fails. Can't agree to not wear a beard w/o a scriptural reason not to? You're not following the Watchtower Society's direction then. Not obedient to a bunch of men in Brooklyn. | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 161 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 68.91.9.207 |
AMEN rebel8! I agree with you wholeheartedly! | ||
| setti24 (setti24) New member Username: setti24 Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 216.43.159.210 |
Hi I'm a newbie here and it is nice to talk to other ppl that feel like I do, and have grown up Jw's like I did. I stopped being a JW about 7 yrs ago. That was the best decision I ever made. I look forward to talking to everyone on here, especially those who still are in the "cult" I just have one question for those folks out there... why are you guys even responding to these threads? Don't you know you can get in a lot of "trouble" for this, if you are caught? LOL Shame on you, you guys are actually talking to apostates!!!!! What would be said about you, all those ppl in the congregation will have a field day talking about YOU and YOUR family, because you are NO LONGER a example. xoxoxo, Setti (I don't need to hide) | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 163 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 68.91.9.192 |
setti, I guess it is that in that org. individuals have so little control and freedoms that they are drawn to sites like this but at the same time guilt takes over so they feel the need to defend the organization... seems like an unhealthy vicious cycle for them and one I do not envy. enjoyed your comments though and oh, how true it is about the hypocrisy in that org. I know that hypocrisy is present to some degree in every religion and that no religion is perfect but those of us who have been affiliated with the JWs and have rejected that org. know that the JWs have perfected hypocrisy. | ||
| setti24 (setti24) New member Username: setti24 Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 216.43.159.210 |
Hi luvliberty, it is very interesting to see that they will defend it at all cost. But in this case they are willingly coming in here to try and stir something. The sad part, is that they will say they are suffering prosecution from us. Yet we did not go out there trying to find them. Irony, I guess. I will have to say though, that the ppl themselves are not bad, it just that they are ignorant and brainwashed. It is not them we are against, just what beliefs have been put in there head. So luvliberty, what other good threads are on here? Setti | ||
| luvliberty (luvliberty) Intermediate Member Username: luvliberty Post Number: 164 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.67.136.98 |
good points setti! if you are interested in other threads on JWs there are a lot under topics on factnet. I had an interest in the political threads on fact net of which some interesting ones are the "irreligious left" and others but I have sort of lost contact with those threads. I also got on some about other cultlike religions and posted a few posts but the ones I mostly keep up on are the jw threads.yeah I harbor no grudge toward the individuals that are swept along with the doctrine but I have discovered that there are some individuals in the org. that are not as swept along blindly and that have learned to use that org. to their own advantage. These particular people want to see the "rules" enforced on everyone else while they pick and choose what they will apply. Just for an example, my dad was an elder and he said that behind closed doors at elders meetings there were actually yelling matches going on , not b/t pubs and elders but among the elders themselves! there was certainly not a spirit of mildness present as we have been led to believe.those elders are still elders, still doing whatever it is they do... so I have been glad to bid the org. and all goodbye! | ||
| marilyn_m (marilyn_m) Member Username: marilyn_m Post Number: 94 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 24.222.57.138 |
luvliberty , So good to hear from my ol' friend & ally. I sure could have used some help from you on another jw thread where a couple of know it all's showed up. But that's ok because Sharon jumped in to help & bicpen also.Did you enjoy your time in Mexico? Do you mind me asking what you were studying? I think that Adonijah might have been an elder.You have a lot of catching up to do. I got tired with the know it all's on the other thread so I went to scientology to help out poor ol' Tom for a while. | ||
| jd_fish (jd_fish) New member Username: jd_fish Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.151.152.81 |
Sharon D. I have just done a seven month study of The Jehovah Witness. The reason, because my daughter in getting involved with this organization. I have gone back to the original scriptures and history of the JW. I probably know more about the JW than most JW's. I recommand that you read "Reasoning From The Scriptures With The Jehovah Witnesses by Ron Rhodes. I believe that this book may make you more informed about this organization. I must do everything I can to get her out! I found out that the JW Bible does not match the original scriptures and my daughter is being taken down the wrong path. | ||
| jd_fish (jd_fish) New member Username: jd_fish Post Number: 2 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.151.152.81 |
tlmtn, good for you! Like I said before I just finished a seven month research on the JW. I am just overwhelmed at how can a reasonable person get involved in an organization like that without knowing all the facts and what the JW's are all about. I am quite sure that most all are just fine people but they are being taken down the wrong path due to the lack of knowledge. | ||
| pointlessshrew (pointlessshrew) Member Username: pointlessshrew Post Number: 87 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.138.185.204 |
The Watchtower Society is appealing, by and large, for two reasons: First and formost it promises a community of love and demands that Witnesses put on their best face for visitors/investigators--unwitting people are drawn in by an emotional sense of familial community that is often lacking elsewhere in their lives. Secondly, the WTS generally preys on the under-educated and those in crisis situations. People with scholastic experience are not as prone to the propaganda of the Watchtower Society because they know how to use critical thinking skills and how to do comprehensive studies independent of "instruction" from a mind-control cult. Many of the people I have met over the years who are/have been swayed by WTS arguments believe them because they have never learned how to pursue their own effective research. It is when they are asked to account for glaring inconsistencies and shown how easy it is to challenge the WTS's deceptive tactics by tracking down their own source materials that they start to move out of this cult. Your choice in books is a good one--I'd even be willing to send my copy to Shari at any address she chose, were she willing to read it. In His Grace, miki (Message edited by pointlessshrew on August 06, 2005) | ||
| jimepete (jimepete) New member Username: jimepete Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 66.172.226.14 |
There are a lot of opinions and some very good advice given on these posts. The truth of the matter is this, People follow after whatever they chose to believe until God calls them and draws them to Christ. Jesus said, "You will know the truth and the truth will set you free" All of your opinions,feelings,ideas are pointless if you have not been born again. People who walk in the flesh simply believe anything that will fit their own desires. If you want to be saved you must cry out to God and seek his mercy. Only he can save you! Religion will not save you! If God chooses He will draw you to his son and Jesus and his blood will save you from your sins. | ||
| rumoret (rumoret) New member Username: rumoret Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 69.225.236.108 |
I studied with JW and have relatives that are JW's. I became a Mormon for 2 years.....no longer a Mormon. Both religions got their start in the 1800's and are cults. I preferred the Mormon families over the JW families.....more educated. The JW families are always waiting for the end of the world....and education was never a goal. The JW organization does not like members to do research and ask questions. The JW religion is more interested in getting you saved....never discussing the history of their religious cult and the true history of the man that found this cult. I suggest you read up on any religion on your own....prior to study with anyone from a religious cult. This could save you time.....and you will be a more informed person...who will have plenty of questions to watch them squirm while they try to answer them. Many of your JW members coming door to door.....are just preaching the lines they have learned prior to becoming a JW. Many of them are ignorant to the beginnings of this church that they belong to. Also, my relatives who are JW's they would never even look at a book written about their religion......afterall.....those books are written by evil people that the devil controls. Educate yourself........prior to joining any religion.......only then can you make an informed decision. | ||
| jd_fish (jd_fish) New member Username: jd_fish Post Number: 3 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.149.48.15 |
I just recently read the JW's Bible, The New World Translation," and I am amazed at what a terrible translation of the Holy Scriptures it is. Why would any group of people want to deceive their congregation to purposely lead them astray is criminal. I compared the New testament of the New World translation with the Geek Lexicon New Testament and the JW's have twisted the whole meaning. I just can't help to ask myself why did they do this? What is the purpose? | ||
| car516 (car516) New member Username: car516 Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2005 Posted From: 24.158.29.69 |
JW's that force this garbage on their own children, ought to be thrown in prison. They should get Life WithOut Parole. | ||
| username (username) New member Username: username Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 69.205.204.213 |
http://www.lambsroar.com/db/index.php?showforum=7 enough said |
