Freedom Village / Fletcher Brothers

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Author Message   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, June 30, 2002 - 11:24 am:        Teens' pastor faces court date Mother says Freedom Village chief holds girl against her will By Jack Jones Democrat and Chronicle (June 29, 2002) — The Rev. Fletcher Brothers, founder and director of Freedom Village, U.S.A., a communal residence in Yates County for troubled teens, has been ordered to appear before an Erie County Court judge in Buffalo on Wednesday with a 17-year-old girl who is the subject of a custody dispute. According to a lawsuit filed Friday, Brothers has "wrongfully and unlawfully held" the teen and prevented her from returning to her mother's home in Hamburg, Erie County. The girl's mother, Patricia Brown, said she filed the lawsuit because her daughter, Sandra Brown, has been psychologically coerced by Brothers and camp officials into believing that she cannot return home. Brothers said Sandra Brown -- who was placed at Freedom Village along with her older brother in 1998 -- is free to return home but has told him that she chooses to remain at the 150-acre campus, which is home to about 200 youths from around the world who have been referred by parents, police agencies, church groups and others. "I'm sorry that Patricia Brown has chosen to take this legal action, but I will be more than happy to go to court with Sandra and let her tell the judge why she chooses to remain here rather than go back," Brothers said. Patricia Brown, a former teacher who operates a day care center, said she adopted the children, who are biological siblings, after their mother died nine years ago. Both children were being abused by an alcoholic father, who died five years ago, she said. Because of emotional problems that both developed in their early teen years, Brown said she enrolled them at Freedom Village. "But I didn't intend for them to spend the rest of their lives there," Patricia Brown said. "But because of the way Pastor Brothers operates, the children are threatened and told they'll burn in hell if they leave before they're told they're ready to go." Sandra's brother, Thomas, said he left Freedom Village in December, after being there for nearly four years and not being allowed to communicate with his sister. "When I turned 18, I decided I was just going to leave," Thomas Brown said. "I wanted to leave long before that, but they told me I wasn't ready and I would get into drugs and go to hell and everything horrible would happen to me if I left... . They tell you the world outside is a bad place, but in my mind the world is what you make of it. "Even if you say out loud, 'I want to go home,' you're put under house arrest. That's why I want my sister out of there before she gets more brainwashed or whatever." Patricia Brown said that although her son attended classes for nearly four years at Freedom Village, he had only five credits that could be used toward a high school diploma from a public school. Susan Gray, a Buffalo lawyer who filed the lawsuit against Brothers on behalf of Patricia and Thomas Brown, said a Freedom Village education emphasizes religious training at the expense of other subjects. "Freedom Village falls between the cracks of the education system, because they don't have to be licensed by the state," said Gray. "Tom is almost 19 and he was there nearly four years, but he still needs nearly three years of classes to finish high school... . We're alleging that Fletcher Brothers is running an organization that takes teens who are dependent on drugs, alcohol or sex and transfers that dependency to himself. Kids are taught to believe they cannot function in the outside world. We think that's what has happened with Sandra." Patricia Brown said she wants her daughter returned home because since her son's return, she has realized that "While Freedom Village is good up to a point, the kids there don't learn the kinds of things really necessary to be a success in normal life -- like how to manage time, money and energy and get a job and provide for yourself." Brothers said that "several thousand" teens have gone through Freedom Village in the past 21 years, and most spend about 16 months in the residential community. Brothers also said that Thomas Brown was expelled from Freedom Village, where both he and his sister had been allowed to stay at their mother's request beyond the usual 16-month residence period. "Their mother wanted them here is bottom line," said Brothers. "Sandy technically graduated from our program a long time ago, but she refuses to go home because it's a mess there and we're not going to put this girl out on the streets. Patricia Brown has an ax to grind." Freedom Village was the subject of intense media criticism in the early 1980s, when Brothers was accused of siphoning funds for his personal use from the former Gates Community Chapel, which he and a group of followers founded in 1975. Former members of the chapel congregation and others -- including graduates of Freedom Village -- have continued throughout the years to accuse Brothers of deceptive fund-raising activities and fraud in his business dealings. As it faced foreclosure over more than $21 million in unpaid debts in 1993, a federal bankruptcy judge allowed Freedom Village to continue operating and dramatically reduced Brothers' bills to about 15 percent of the amount being sought by creditors. Many of those debtors were fellow Christians who said Brothers had persuaded them to invest in his youth salvation enterprise and promised to pay interest on their personal loans. http://www.democratandchronicle.com/news/0629story6_news.shtml   Heather McCarthy (64.12.116.66) Posted on Sunday, June 06, 2004 - 11:23 pm:        As a former Village student, I hate to tell you this, but it doesn't work that way. Pastor Brothers is a loving individual who monitors each childs progress. As a teenager bad habits are formed easily. Its like being a smoker- if you are around people who smoke and you are trying to quit, then you are going go be more tempted to do so! If a year later you're not ready to be around smokers, a good friend might let you know. Not everyone is ready to go out to everything that screwed them up yet- It is scary!!!!! There were many students that left on good terms after there year was up. I'd also like to mention that I graduated with honors after 3 yrs. You have to work to get your credits there-If you don't do your books, then you don't get credits. There were many qualified and attentive teachers and what you are saying is sheer ignorance. Pastor Brothers is not perfect. Last time I checked, he was human,just like the rest of us   Anonymous (208.54.210.109) Posted on Monday, June 07, 2004 - 5:32 am:        what is your college major? basket weaving?   Anonymous (66.44.126.108) Posted on Saturday, August 21, 2004 - 6:28 am:        Heather McCarthy I have never met Pastor Fletcher Brothers, but I have heard the man speak on his uninterupted online Victory Today radio shows and what he preaches on those radio programs and what the Bible teaches are two totally different things. He teaches that in order to be accepted into the Kingdom of God you can only do so by working your hardest at being good enough and not sinning, with God's help; such is the doctrine of the Pharisees. In effect Pastor Brothers is a modern day Pharisee and the graduates of his program are potential Pharisees themselves, which means that they are worse off than they were before they entered his program. The Bible teaches that we are justified into The Kingdom of Heaven through and only through Jesus Christ's death and Ressurection and not through starving ourselves from our sinful desires in order to please Him. The more you try to be sinless and virtuous in your behavior the more sinful you will become. To quote the Apostle Paul; "The power of sin is The Law". That's what Pastor Brothers leaves out in all of his sermons and that's what puts him morally beneath all of these "hedonistic liberals" that he condemns. Now does this mean that as Christian's we can do any sinful thing that we want and not be punished? No. That's not what it means, what it does mean is that the more sinless you try to be in your behavior the more sinful you will become. What this also means is that once you accept Jesus Christ into your heart you will become baptized with The Holy Spirit. And the Holy Spirit will take all of your sinful desires and remove them from your soul and replace those sinful desires with Godly ones such as love, honesty and peace; such a process is known as being "born again". And the more you try to be sinless in your behavior by not reading the wrong books and watching the wrong movies and listening to the wrong music the more it hinders the process of the Holy Spirit working its cleansing in you and the more sinful you will become and the more you will fall under God's wrath. Pastor Brothers therefore has Hell to look forward to after he dies unless he realizes that he is a blind leader of the blind and truly turn to God. Being born again is a slow, gradual and continuing process, which begs the question; in your process of being born again does The Lord punish you for your sins? Well that depends. The Lord doesn't punish you for breaking the Holy Laws as they are written in The Bible, no He punishes you for not living up to the moral standards that you have personally placed on other people. So that means for example if you don't want God to punish you for all of the times you have looked at pornography and paid for lap dances (both of which are serious form of adultery), it has to be on the grounds that you haven't turned your nose up at other people or pass moral judgement on other people for looking at pornography and paying for lap dances in the same manner and context in which you yourself do, especially if that other person happens to be your significant other. This is what Jesus Christ meant when he said; "Do not judge, lest ye be judged." Of course this doesn't mean that we shouldn't pass moral judgement on people at all, when Jesus made that comment he was exclusively talking to people who point out and/or punish the sinful behavior in others in order to build their "holier than thou" egos up and project their sinful desires onto others without taking a look in the mirror to see any of their moral faults. In effect he was talking to people like Pastor Fletcher Brothers and the brainwashed fools who graduated from his program. Oh it's not a sin to pass moral judgement on others if you truly are disgusted by the way those others have mistreated the ones you love or respect, but it has to be on account of the fact that you lack and will continue to lack any personal desire to sin in the manner of the person or people that you passed moral judgement on as if you were in their position. How do you know if your behavior is sinful? If and only if you break the Golden Rule; "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you." That's what the Ten Commandments all have in common, for example; you wouldn't want to be stolen from so therefore you shouldn't steal from other people. etc. etc. or to put the Golden Rule as Dr. M. Scott Peck would put it; "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you, as if you were in that other person's position." So in effect Pastor Fletcher Brothers is a liar and he has done more damage to God's good name than he has realised. Pastor Brothers is an evil man.   path_walker (path_walker) Junior Member Username: path_walker Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 64.228.46.51 Posted on Tuesday, January 25, 2005 - 4:22 pm:        I have never heard so much hatred spewed in my life until I visited this website. And this is from professing christians?   john724 (john724) New member Username: john724 Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 24.161.12.106 Posted on Thursday, February 03, 2005 - 7:38 pm:        to Anonymous: Proverbs 15:2 "The tongue of the wise commends knowledge, but the mouth of the fool gushes folly. " Your long winded opinion is void of facts, and full of theological errors and pure hypocrisy. I will address one point. "Do not judge lest you be judged", does NOT mean simply do not judge. It does means don't judge hypocritically or without basis. You began your thesis by judging Dr. Brothers without any facts! Get your concordance out and read up on God's definition of hypocrisy. Jesus also teaches in --John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." ..and what is righteous judgment? Truth and more specifically, God's Word - period. So, I'm judging you, and you are wrong. Get into the bible and pray that God straightens out your understanding. ~God Bless   amjspeaks (amjspeaks) New member Username: amjspeaks Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 161.11.133.50 Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 12:03 pm:        hhaaahhahah. Yall are all crazy. I tell if I was a sinner readingal of this. I would NEVER get saved. Maybe that is the intent of Anonymous. Hey Anonymous, if you have it out for Fletcher so, bad why don't you face him in person, instead of being coward and using this forum as your pulpit. I'm sure if you make an appointment with him and sit down to speak to him in a non threatening way, you will find a lot of answers to your questions. You may even sooth a alot of this hurt that you obviously have in your heart. He who is without sin cast the first stone. I take it that you have earned the right to throw the first stone since you are sinless. Flethcer may not be all about the up and up. I don't know and don't care. However, I do know he has done wonders for hundreds of kids. He can't save the world but he has definitely help kids to become upstanding citizens in their community. Let me ask you how many kids not related to you have you helped transition to the adult world?   amjspeaks (amjspeaks) New member Username: amjspeaks Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 161.11.133.50 Posted on Monday, March 14, 2005 - 12:45 pm:        hhaaahhahah. Yall are all crazy. I tell if I was a sinner reading all of this. I would NEVER get saved. Maybe that is the intent of Anonymous. Hey Anonymous, if you have it out for Fletcher so, bad why don't you face him in person, instead of being coward and using this forum as your pulpit. I'm sure if you make an appointment with him and sit down to speak to him in a non threatening way, you will find a lot of answers to your questions. You may even sooth a alot of this hurt that you obviously have in your heart. He who is without sin cast the first stone. I take it that you have earned the right to throw the first stone since you are sinless. Flethcer may not be all about the up and up. I don't know and don't care. However, I do know he has done wonders for hundreds of kids. He can't save the world but he has definitely help kids to become upstanding citizens in their community. Let me ask you how many kids not related to you have you helped transition to the adult world?   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Tuesday, June 14, 2005 - 8:38 pm:        I am a former member of Gates Community Chapel . . . and a former student at Chapel Christian Academy. Let me tell you -- the church split because of his fraudulant dealings, padding his own salary, and for using the pulpit to try and control those in the church who opposed what he was doing. The closest I ever came to being involved with a cult, was being a part of this church. I cannot list the number of shattered lives, disappointments and broken people he has left in his wake. But, I do know that his whole ministry has been about absolute power and absolute control. The church and school were very strict, no pants for girls, no hand holding, or other pda's. If he didn't like who you were dating, it was a sermon on Sunday morning. If you crossed him in any way -- you were hell bound. When all the stuff hit the fan about his business dealings, ethics, etc, he tried to use his radio program to name those who were opposed to him. As I remember, his program was yanked from several stations at the time. Any group that asks you to surrender your own ability to think and question is a cult. Even if it claims to be"Christian". Just ask those who lost family members in Jonestown, Guyana. Scripture is very clear about our responsibility to "try the spirits" to see if they are of God. Which means don't believe everything you hear. Check it out with scripture first.   verticalhood (verticalhood) New member Username: verticalhood Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.206.53.116 Posted on Monday, June 27, 2005 - 11:42 am:        I went to Freedom Village, and it is true, he's manipulative and bias, not to mention borderline racist. He believes in segregation between races, that we should be with those who are like our own selves. The best part was his claim that those of mixed race should find someone as close to our skincolor as possible. He even used one of the girls who had a baby as an example, claiming that "I believe God forgives [name] for having a mixed race baby." Nevermind she had the child out of wed-lock. What an awful shameful thing to say. Being someone of mixed race I was highly offended that he suggested I came from sin. He would also preach on people. If someone left the program and he didn't like it he would have no problem throwing all of their personal business all over the place. Example, a girl and her sister were both in the program. The older sister left. The younger one asked, during question night, yes, they wasted hours on question night, and asked if she could write to her sister. He got this matter-of-fact look on his face and said [name] is doing drugs again, and stealing, and all this garbage. Why he felt it necessary to publicly humiliate this child is beyond me. After the giant waste of time he should have brought her aside instead of letting everyone in on family business. Then the stupid thing is turns out the family that the girl was staying with was lying. Long story short, Freedom Village is run by people who cannot think for themselves. He is not a loving man, he and his unstable wife pretend adopt certain students and they get special privledges while everyone else who earns respect rarely gets it. True, Freedom VIllage may work for some, but they are few and far apart. Hell, they never leave, who do you think that so called trained staff is. And the teacher? O you mean myself. It is a self paced school study thing that got riged together and there is no need for a teacher. If I needed help id just go and get the answers, thats it. Freedom Village is little more than a cult who thinks they are better than everyone else. The workers take advantage of their power and the only thing that place taught me was self control. One more story, real quickly, then im done. Since we were treated like children we all had to go up to the bathroom together like a big turd of kids. Supposedly we were taking to long in the bathroom and one of our escorts cracked the door and yelled "If you don't hurry up something something [threat]." When I came out I rolled my eyes at the thought. Another girl, a real staff members child (real staff member=someone who didnt come from the Village and works there). She said "dont roll your eyes." with that smug cadence in her voice and I said sometihng back but with the violent anger in my voice she got the message. Little did she know that she was within seconds away from getting her teeth kicked in. Needless to say that whole system is full of garbage. They scare you into staying by claiming your life will be worse and youll probably die soon after leaving. He acts like he's a force to be reckoned with. SUpposedly some boy said told him to f* off and the day he left he got shot. Like God was behind it. He preaches on cockeneyed stupid beliefes and attempts to back it with the Bible and those sheep are foolish enough to follow because they just don't kno any better. Freedom Village needs to be monitored and those kids need to be told they DONT have to stay to get better. Im better and I left 6 months early, and what do ya know, i'm not dead. I wouldn't advise anyone go there to get better unless you like being manipulated and scared into believing false ideals.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Wednesday, June 29, 2005 - 6:50 pm:        Yes, Fletcher is a borderline racist. As a young teenager in his church I learned first hand that you don't "mix the races". I had a crush on a young man in our youth group who was of mixed race -- and my parents went crazy when he asked me to church a function. The "ACE" education program has also left countless young people without an adequate education and without the necesary skills to enter college. What is the saddest part for me is that so many people been hurt spiritually by these kinds of groups. They leave the grips of the church and men like Fletcher Brothers . . . and never have the opportunity to learn that true religion -- true faith in God is so completely opposite of what they teach. In fact, I have found that those whom Fletcher loves to call "panty-waist", namby pamby liberals, are those who, more often than not, truly embody the ideals and teachings of Christ.   sweethoneybee (sweethoneybee) New member Username: sweethoneybee Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.119.203.97 Posted on Tuesday, August 09, 2005 - 12:31 pm:        So, Pastor Brothers' fruit doesn't stink, huh? And I suppose he can also make the sun shine from his dark place. I am angry and bitter about the way Brothers tricked my dying husband into lending the ministry (Freedom Village dba Gates Community Chapel) our entire life savings of approximately $60,000. Knowing that my husband's condition was terminal, Freedom Village representatives, usually a man who called himself "Ed", would call when I was scheduled for work and wouldn't be home. My husband died of metastatic cancer that spread to his brain. Ed was happy enough to pray for his salvation while stealing our nest egg. He told my husband he would be getting a 14% return on the money we LOANED to Freedom Village. When it came time to pay us interest due on the loan, Ed "rolled over the investment" along with the supposed interest which never existed. There is such a thing as righteous anger. Even Jesus threw the moneychangers out of the temple. I do not profess to be a Christian, BTW. Now I am a widow who has waited over ten years only to be told I will get back about 9% of our investment without any interest. The problem is, even though the Rochester court has asked their accountant to send me the meager crumbs of our investment, I have yet to receive that money although I sent all the certified documentation the court wanted. I was told I would have my money in 1990. Now it is 2005 and I still don't have anything back. Why is Fletcher Brothers allowed by the Western District court of NY to repeatedly take advantage of sick, elderly, and dying people and leave children and widows wondering whether to buy medicine or food with their money each month. I am living that life thanks to Freedom Village and their series of monetary fiascos. I blame the court for not putting Brothers behind bars for fraud where he belongs. Surely there are folks in jail he can brainwash if he so surely enjoys a captive audience. May this post serve as a warning to others to stay away from this man. He is not of God. Actions speak volumes for this man, as do his bankruptcy proceedings in Rochester, NY. I can't tell you how violated I felt when I found out he had been in bankruptcy court several times before my husband ever heard of him. And as for the boy, Miguel, that we supposedly "adopted", all we got was a picture of a young man. I don't know whether he learned to read and write or what even became of him because the correspondence was never directly with a student, only with staff members who worked by telephone and snail mail. I want to look the Pastor straight in the eye and ask him how well he sleeps at night knowing he stole everything from a dying paraplegic and his widow. If that is what Christians call bearing fruit, you need a new tree. }}}Nearly all men can stand adversity, but if you want to test a man's character, give him power. Abraham Lincoln (1809 - 1865)   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Thursday, August 18, 2005 - 10:17 pm:        I'm not sure who is stinking up what with bad/rotten fruit, etc. But, as I sit here now at 39 years of age -- well over 20 years past my association with the Church Fletcher founded, I would hardly call myself "bitter." Just don't have the time. Wiser? Yes. Remember that Christ himself said "not everyone that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven. . ." Just because someone is claiming to do the work of God, doesn't mean that they are not padding their own wallet with the money you send in. I'm not speaking from ignorance. For several years my mother was his personal secretary -- I baby sat for Fletcher's son . . . so I'm not someone who is blowing hot air. I'll say that Fletcher had only been nice to me -- so I have no personal axe to grind. But that doesn't cover up the truth about what went on, and what has happened to so many of my friends who were associated with his ministry. . . and so many of the people who have invested money and their lives for his schemes. It's always been interesting to me that the Apostle Paul always made it a point of actually "earning a living" where ever he went. He was a tent maker. He never took money from people for himself. The only monies we know he collected were for the church in Jerusalem which was under dire persecution. . . and I'll bet that every denarii reached Jerusalem, too. Incidentally, I remember covering the office phones for my mom one day -- and took the message regarding the Seneca Lake property. I'm not one to be trifled with, believe me. . . and I have rambled across that property before it ever was a Freedom Village. I go way back -- back to before Freedom Village, when it was just "Youthtime". Sitting in the pews of a church that had more in common with the People's Temple of Jim Jones than I care to remember. I wish the adults in our lives had been able to make the connections back then when the mass suicide in Guyana was happening, but they didn't. Remembering the words of James: "Religion that God our Father accepts as pure and faultless is this: to look after orphans and widows in their distress" Fletcher certainly doesn't make the grade.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Friday, August 19, 2005 - 8:35 pm:        Called1: you seem to have a lot to say about everyone else's spiritual condition. You also seem to have a lot to say about everyone else's messed up lives. Yet I sense a lot of venom and anger in your words. What are you not dealing with in your own life that has led you to such an angry place? Your verbal attacks against anyone who disagrees with you is very similar to what Fletcher Brothers does. Instead of facing the issue, engaging others in meaningful dialog, you insist on belittling your opponents, condemning them to hellfire, or playing pseudo-psychologist by trying to figure out what's wrong with all of us. Instead of telling us why you think Fletcher is so wonderful, you insist on bullying, attacking and condemning. Bring something meaningful to the table -- "Come let us reason together?" Isn't that the response of God? Why all the hate? Why all of these anger-filled words toward people who oppose your opinion? I'm not quite sure that you read my post fully -- you must've missed the fact that Fletcher Brothers had never done anything amiss to me personally, and was always nice as pie. However, it doesn't matter how well he treated me, it does not excuse him from his unbiblical behavior. Incidentally, the male role models in my life have been tremendous sources of encouragement and love. I had two wonderful grandfather's -- as well as a step-grandfather who was a wonderfully spiritual man. My dad is first-rate -- and has played a pivotal role in making me who I am. I remind Called1 that your first mistake is in jumping to judge others (others that you do not even know). Remember that you need to take the mote out of your own eye -- then we can worry about what's in mine. Are we judging Fletcher? Yes. He's put himself into a position of authority and calls himself a spiritual leader. It is our responsibility as believers to test those who would call themselves teachers. We have to be discerning so that we don't follow false teachers and false prophets. I John 4:1 "Dear Friends, do not believe every spirit, but test the spirits to see whether they are from God, because many false prophets have gone out into the world." James 1:19 "My dear brothers, take note of this: Everyone should be quick to listen, slow to speak and slow to become angry, for man's anger does not bring about the righteous life that God desires." James 2:26 "If anyone considers himself religious and yet does not keep a tight rein on his tongue, he deceives himself and his religion is worthless." James 3:1 "Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly." I love you in Christ, Called1 -- let's reason together as children of God.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 9:00 pm:        You know who I am? That's a pretty bold statement. Pages worth of hatred? Where are these pages? Be careful who I challenge when it comes to knowing God's word? C'mon now. After 6 years of Christian School Education(three of those years in Fletcher Brother's own school), four years of Bible training and a B.S. in Bible, as well as two years as a Christian Educator - please . . . don't trifle with me. Again -- the only thing you can offer is what all fundamentalists offer . . . condemnation, hate, fire and brimstone. Is there no willingness to address the issues, speak as a reasonable person? If you know so much about scripture -- share some with us all in your defense of how Fletcher Brothers conducts his ministry. If you cannot reason as a rational person -- as a person who wants to "let his light so shine before men" . . . then why bother with this pap? Ephesians 4:1-3 " . . . I urge you to live a life worthy of the calling you have received. Be completely humble and gentle; be patient, bearing with one another in love. Make every effort to keep the unity of the Spirit through the bond of peace . . ." Phil 1:27 "Whatever happens, conduct yourself in a manner worthy of the gospel of Christ." Colossians 3:12-14 "Therefore as God's chosen people, holy and dearly loved, clothe yourselves with compassion, kindness, humility, gentleness and patience. Bear with each other and forgive whatever grievances you may have against one another. Forgive as the Lord forgave you. And over all these virtues put on love, which binds them all together in perfect unity." You are forgiven, Called1 -- by God -- and by me - for your words of hate and anger. Fletcher too may be forgiven -- but will face the judgement of God for his misdeeds. Incidentally, What are the sin issues in my life? I'd like to get started on those right away. }   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Saturday, August 20, 2005 - 9:22 pm:        Hmmmmm, I myself question who called 1 is? Why would called 1 feel so strongly to defend Pastor Brothers. One of Freedom Villages staff members perhaps? Maybe a graduate of the infamous Pastor's Club? How would called 1 know if Pastor Brothers behavoir is biblical or not. Has this person spent any amount of time with Pastor Brothers? Is called 1 speaking from fact or pure assumption? These are the questions that I am wondering the answers to while reading called 1's posts. Let me share what I know for FACT, I looked into the eyes of a scared little thirteen year old girl over a decade ago at Freedom Village who confided in me that she was being raped by members of the Victory Singers group she was apart of. I was apalled and thought surely I could help this little girl who by the way was brought to Freedom Village because of the abuse she endured by her prostitute mother growing up. So, I proceeded to do what I was sure was the right thing..... I told Pastor Brothers. To my shock, because of his favourtism of these boys being accused, this scared, abused little girl was punished harshly and humiliated. I will never forget that. That called 1 is fact. If that is getting saved, following that way of thinking that I witnessed for years at Freedom Village I'm sorry to say but I want no part of it. The Jesus that I worship said a man that hurts one of His children will suffer a horrible fate. I'm not sure what God you serve called 1 but I serve a God of love beyond our understanding.Maybe you should condsider getting saved by my God. It's not to late.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 3:11 pm:        Interesting . . . . but I think someone using Anonymous opened this thread in 2002 . . . and I first responded -- oh, in 2005 . . . not sure what you're talking about called1. Is that Freedom Village math? But, what are my issues again? Matthew 7:6 "Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you to pieces." Incidentally, if you really knew who I was, you would've known about "all that education."   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 7 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 9:27 pm:        And still we are waiting for you to stick to the topic and discuss the this as a rational person. Are you in junior high school? This sort of thing is not only inappropriate and ignorant. It's just plain adolescent. So we are faced with a conundrum: Proverbs 26:4,5 "Do not answer a fool as his folly deserves, or you will grow like him yourself; answer a fool as his folly deserves, or he will think himself wise." The bottom line is this: Called1 you are either a young person who has no idea what they are talking about -- and I base this on the grammatical structure of your sentences, and your juvenile attacks, or you are an adult - with some serious issues. You have no idea who I am -- you lie about people in order to discredit those who disagree with you, because you do not have the skill or ability to back up your position with truth and fact. All you have been able to do is threaten people, lie, and attack. Which is ludicrous since your threats are meaningless -- it is just the internet after all. Incidentally, 20 years ago, I was in no way affiliated with, attached to, or near the ministerial mayhem of Fletcher Brothers. So your cute little attacks are really more amusing than they are frightening. I think it's time you began acting more like a follower of Christ, than a follower of Fletcher. This is precisely the sort of thing he's good at. Who knows, you might even be Fletcher Brothers. You do use the word "listeners". But, c'mon not many people are even posting here -- Fletcher Brothers is not as well known as he claims to be. I forgive you for your attacks, though, because I really think that you are too young to really know what you're doing. Titus 3:1,2 "Put them in mind to be subject to principalities and powers, to obey magistrates, to be ready to every good work. To speak evil of no man, to be no brawlwers, but gentle, shewing all meekness unto all man." By the way, why weren't you at a Sunday night church service somewhere at 6:19PM?   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 8 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Sunday, August 21, 2005 - 11:15 pm:        called1 I think you have a reading defiency . . . I said to be exact: "well over 20 years past my association with the Church Fletcher founded". Well over means just that - well over. Not quite 30 years . . . but more than 20. I also never said I as at "Freedom Village". I was at the property BEFORE there was a Freedom Village. I was a member of the church that Fletcher was the pastor of. . . and our youth group went to clean the place up. Can you read? You are a piece of work . . . that could use some basic English grammar courses. So, I guess you've been caught - not paying attention.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 9 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 8:24 am:        Yes, Very, Very Interesting I would say too -- go ahead release my "real name". Do you even know where I was 20 years ago? You still never explained why you weren't in church on a Sunday night -- since you're such a godly pillar and all. I don't think lies require justification with an answer. Nice try yourself -- but I'm convinced that we are talking to Fletcher Brothers himself. As I recall, his program was yanked off several radio stations in the early 1980's because he attempted to get revenge on the people of his church by spreading lies about them on his radio program. It wasn't just the spreading of the lies, but the malicious attempts to discredit people by name. It's called slander. It's called bearing false witness - it's one of the Ten Commandments.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 10 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 5:00 pm:        Matthew 5:22,23 "But I tell you that anyone who is angry with his brother will be subject to judgment. Again, anyone who says to his brother, Raca, is answerable to the Sanhedrin. But anyone who says, "you fool!" will be in danger of the fire of hell."   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 5:59 pm:        I thought your story about someone being caught in "the act" of "premarital sex" sounded awfully familiar to me. . . and after a little thought, I realized its similarity to another story I had heard: "But Jesus went to the Mount of Olives. At dawn he appeared again the temple courts, where all the people gathered around him, and he sat down to teach them. The teachers of the law and the Pharisees brought in a woman caught in adultery. They made her stand before the group and said to Jesus, 'Teacher, this woman was caught in the act of adultery. In the Law Moses commanded us to stone such women. Now what to do you say?' They were using this question as a trap, in order to have a basis for accusing him. But Jesus bent down and started to write on the ground with his finger. When they kept on questioning him, he straightened up and said to them, 'If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her.' Again he stooped down and wrote on the ground. At this, those who heard began to go away one at a time, the older ones first, until only Jesus was left, with the woman still standing there. Jesus straightened up and asked her, 'Woman where are they? Has no one condemned you?" 'No one sir,' she said. "Then neither do I condemn you.' Jesus declared. 'Go now and leave your life of sin." John 8:1-11 At this point, I have to thank called1 for so clearly pointing out the differences between how Freedom Village handles things, and how Jesus himself handled issues of supposed "sexual sin". I feel nothing but sorrow for the person you have me confused with -- if such a person actually exists. Christ's response is one of love and compassion. It is what is required of all of us. By contrast we have the response of called1 and Freedom Village. That response is to humiliate, punish, condemn and harass the accused person. Cultic responses for failing to follow the rules. There is no "forgive and forget". Because here it's clear that whoever called1 is they are still ready to beat the person over the head with their past wrongs. That's how a cult responds. There is no reinstatement to fullness of fellowship and fullness of life, because always, this poor individual, will have this "thing" hanging over them. . .and they wait for the next time Fletcher or Called1 or anyone else they might know will bring it out into the light again. But, with God our sins are forgiven and forgotten: Psalm 103:8-12: "The LORD is compassionate and gracious, slow to anger, abounding in love. He will not always accuse, nor will he harbor his anger forever; he does not treat us as our sins deserve or repay us according to our iniquities. For as high as the heavens are above the earth, so great is his love for those who fear him; as far as the east is from the west, so far has he removed our transgressions from us." I could not have portrayed the differences between the cultic practices of Freedom Village and the compassionate response of Christ any better. The whole issue of sexual ethics in today's society is another discussion altogether, as well as who is the one who decides what is relevant for each individual. Thanks, Called1, good work.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 6:46 pm:        Amen Hystrybuf! I couldn't have said it better myself. I deeply admire you for your positive, intelligent feedback. As a young woman I look up to you and thank you. Going against these fundamentatalist types sometimes feels like David going against Goliath....but we all know how that story ends don't we?   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 13 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Monday, August 22, 2005 - 7:00 pm:        Thank God for that, rayray!   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 15 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 1:42 am:        As called1 has said: "Anybody with internet access can go on this site and write anything they want about anybody." No one has demonstrated this better than you have, my friend. I must say, however, that I am still waiting for biblical support and proofs for Fletcher's ministry. I am still waiting for rational debate from you. Incidentally, someone with your wealth of spirituality and biblical acumen would certainly be able to help us put these passages into correct context. If, indeed, as you so pointedly remark, I have taken them out of their context.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 16 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 1:52 am:        By the way, if I have taken these scriptures out of context, don't forget that I spent three years at the Gates Community Chapel under the pastorate of Fletcher Brothers. Maybe you should blame him. Called1: Notice I said I was at Gates Community Chapel and not Freedom Village -- just so you won't get confused.   sharpe_g (sharpe_g) New member Username: sharpe_g Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.198.123.114 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 7:41 am:        This is a discourse from Christians? I just stumbled across this when I googled pastor brothers. What a sorry bunch. I have only heard Pastor Brothers on the radio, and he seems pretty dead on to me. I can think of a lot worse things to be doing than trying to help people in trouble. Besides anyone can post lies. No real intellectual prowess behind that. My question might be: What have you done for the Lord in your life? Let Him be the judge of his own servants.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 9:52 am:        I can assure you I am not a troubled teen and for the record I am not bitter. I have a wonderful life and family. I have beautiful young children, I have a wonderful husband and a successful career. I too googled the name Pastor Brothers one night way back when out of curiousity and came across this message board. It peeked my interest being a former member of Freedom Village. I primarily read the article and then interesingly enough a post from Heather Mcarthy who I knew very well. For a long time I sat and watched and didn't have much interest in posting anything or getting involved until I saw the bullying. See, that's the thing.. I don't like bullies. Christian or otherwise. I believe that people have a right to express their opinions even if it doesn't sit to well with others. A young girl that wrote negatively about her experience at Freedom Village is allowed to do so. That is HER experience and HER pain. You can't take that away from her and belittle her. That is not fair. Hystrybuf I'm sure does not sit around all day and ring her hands and pace back and forth in bitterness trying to figure out ways to get back at Pastor Brothers. I'm sure she was a wonderful family and life as well but she obviously has a lot of buried pain and yes possibly anger towards her experience with Pastor Brothers. She is allowed!!! She is allowed to feel and express how she wants. This I know from experience is something that you walk out of that you want to bury and maybe this has sparked a lot of feelings we have kept secret for a long time. Trust me when I tell you I don't stand on street corners shouting about my time at Freedom Village for all to hear. For eight years since I have left I have not even talked to my mother about these things. Maybe, you are right called 1, maybe we shouldn't be making these posts on the internet. I agree it is a little juvenille. Maybe we should get off our computers and really deal with this. We should take action. I wish I was lying for my sake and the sake of others I've seen hurt. I'm sure if Pastor Brothers knew my identity he would be shocked. I was very close to him. I actually called him Dad. He referred to himself as my Dad. I spent a lot more time with him more than others. I also was a staff member at one point. So, please don't call me a liar when I can give you facts of what I've seen but.... you are right I am not going to post them here. That would do nothing except make me look bitter so I myself am going to take your advice and stop, I am going to take action. Thank you called 1 for opening my eyes.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 17 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 6:52 pm:        Called1 has said, "I am amazed Hsytrybuf [sic] how you take scripture completely out of context for your own purposes. The only factual information that has been clearly demonstrated here is your bitterness for getting caught in the act of sin years ago and subsequently disciplined for it." First of all, I must address this issue. You have no idea who I am and so your insistence that I was caught in some sort of sexual sin is wrong. (In fact, for the record, I've never been in any sort of sexual relationship with a man -- ever). I must also point out that your association with Fletcher Brothers would have occured AFTER our church was torn apart and dissolved. Freedom Village was not really started until the church fell apart -- check the article at the beginning of this thread for the details on that. I was a freshman in high school at the time. My parents, and practically everyone else in our church dis-associated themselves from Brothers' ministry at that time -- 1981 -- I was 15. Following Fletcher's departure, there was a brief attempt to maintain Gates Community Chapel as an entity with a new pastor. However, most people had been too badly shaken and abused to continue, and most went to other local churches in the Rochester area, including my family. At the time called1 alleges I was "caught in the act of sin", our church had been dissolved for four years. I was living in Clarks Summit, PA attending Bible College. Where, incidentally, the only "discipline" I faced was getting two demerits for failing to clean the bathroom. Whatever that is worth. As I sit here, I can see "40" staring me in the face. Rochester, NY, Gates Community Chapel, and Fletcher Brothers are not only far away in miles, but in years. I think I was too young to have really been "hurt" by anything he did. I wasn't old enough to have gotten on his wrong side, and so I would never have been singled out by him as a potential threat to his position. All of us were angry at the time, the kids in the school, the parents who'd been duped, and others who had supported his ministry. But, that was almost 25 years ago. I have a lived a lot of life since then -- and truly do not have the time to, as rayray has said, sit around and wring my hands all day over what happened. At 15 I had little invested in the scheme, to be honest. But, there are two really important issues at stake here. First, if you will notice, there is a little animated sign on the lower left hand corner of your computer screen which states (alternately): Free speech online -- Stop Internet Censorship. Fundamentalists in general, and Fletcher Brothers, as one example do not believe in free speech. Unless it's what they want to hear and it's what they believe. They want free speech for themselves. Pat Robertson wants free speech so he can advocate murdering another human being, but if we protest the war in Iraq, we're called traitors. They demonize their opponents so they don't have face the issues. But this entire message board has been set up for people to discuss cults, and groups who are potentially harmful and cultic in nature. So I am not required to "shut up" in expressing my opinions, or the truth about what I know when it comes to this topic. To be told that you will "have a field day with me" . . . that I am "warned" . . .to "lay off" is as unAmerican as it is unChristian. What do you think the Taliban was all about? Suppression of dissent and independant thought. Why do you think Islamic extremists murdered Theo van Gogh in The Netherlands? He expressed opinions contrary to their beliefs -- so they shot and mutilate him. We're horrified by such things in that form, but are we willing to allow them in some more subtle form? However, it is important to remember that free speech is essential to any democratic-republic. The free exchange of ideas and opinions is how this country is supposed to operate. But, the closer you move to the "right" the less freedom of thought, speech, and conscience you will find. Secondly: Instead of individual soul liberty, conformity is the key in fundamentalism. Your morals must conform, your speech must conform, your dress must conform. You must use the same Bible, have the same haircut, and listen to the same music. But you are not necessarily conforming to the image of Christ if you follow, nor are you necessarily conforming to the world if you disagree. And here is where those on the extreme right (and not necessarily everyone on the right)slip into cultic practices. You conform -- to the ideals of one man. It is his vision you follow, and not your own. You abdicate your own ability to think and reason, and subject it to another human being. But Paul told Timothy that there is only one mediator between God and man, the man Christ Jesus. Fundamentalism - in its extremity - is just as dangerous in its Christian form as it is in its Islamic form. We haven't seen Christian suicide bombers, but we have seen Christians who advocate strongly for war (like Jerry Falwell) against Christ's clear admonition to turn the other cheek and to love your enemies. We now see Pat Robertson calling for the assassination of Venezuala's president. A Christian, advocating the murder of another human being - in spite of clear scriptural teachings of "thou shalt not kill". We have even seen, in the not so distant past, people bombing abortion clinics in the name of religion. . .and we witness the murder of Dr. Bernard Slepian near Buffalo, NY - because he performed abortions - and the man who shot him, believed that his anti-abortion stance justified his behavior. It all becomes very Machiavellian when we take Christ's clear directives out of the picture: "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also. And if any many will sue thee at the law, and take away thy coat, let him have they cloak also." I have been the object of extreme scorn, taunting, threats (however empty), slander, vitriol and downright mean-spiritedness on the part of called1. Yet, I have refused to respond in kind, instead, I have only urged for reasonable discussion and rational adult-like behavior. Only to have more empty threats and horrible hatred tossed in my direction. Quite, honestly, I don't really care about it all that much, but, as a point of common decency, it really should not have been allowed in this forum. But this is important -- it's important, not because of some drummed-up personal vendetta. It's important because the heart of Christianity is at stake. Because the world needs to know the true face of Christ, and not the false face they are offered. The world needs to know that "God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved." That's not what fundies offer. It isn't what Fletcher Brothers offers. I will not doubt that God can work through Fletcher Brothers -- he can work through anyone. At one time, he chose to work through Balaam's ass, quite frankly. But, it's important to know where the real power lies -- not in the power of the man, but in the power of God to transform.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 19 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 10:10 pm:        "Lord make me an instrument of your peace Where there is hatred, Let me sow love; Where there is injury, pardon; Where there is doubt, faith; Where there is despair, hope; Where there is darkness, light; And where there is sadness, Joy. O Divine Master grant that I may Not so much seek to be consoled As to console; To be understood, As to understand; To be loved as to love. For it is in giving that we receive, It is in pardoning that we are pardoned. And it is in dying that we are Born to eternal life." - anonymous   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 20 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 8:42 pm:        You can't even spell my screen name right, and you're going to try and guess at my real name? Say hello to Mike and Dave for me.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 9:30 pm:        ?????????????????????????????????????????   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 21 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:13 pm:        Hey rayray, Good to see you.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:41 pm:        By the way, I absolutely loved your post referring to fundemetalism on the 23rd 6:52. I really enjoy your writing. It is so profound. You are very talented and highly informative. Please if you could find the time I really would enjoy to read more posts from you in the future. I get a great sense of comfort from your posts and Christ's love if that makes any sense.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 23 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 10:55 pm:        I appreciate the comments, rayray. So how long were you with Freedom Village? If you don't mind my asking. You don't have to answer that if you don't want to -- given the tenor of this board lately. I was thinking about the first time we went onto the property as a youth group. It looked as if people had just gotten up from their classrooms and left. It was weird. Books sitting on tables still opened, all kinds of frogs and science projects in formaldehyde. But, I remember the property was beautiful.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:04 pm:        I was there from when I was 13 till I was 18. Yes, it was a beautiful property. That is strange and a little creepy that things were left that way. Sometimes when I was sad I would sit on the grassy hill and stare at the swamp of all things on the property and feel more sorry for myself about the terrible stink and veiw of the swamp. I miss the little ice cream store that was across the street. It was the only thing for miles. But, they had amazing icecream and it was such a treat to do something like that once in a while. As a staff member I got paid 25 dollars a week or something like that and I would go get icecream! A lot of the staff live right on the property or pretty close surrounding it. You would be amazed at how many little houses are in that immediate area.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 24 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:12 pm:        The creepiness of it made it seem as if the "rapture" had taken place -- bizarre. The area is probably a lot more "built up" then when I saw it last. I drove past it once - about 10 years ago on my way through New York. It looked very different just from the road. Have a good night, rayray -- I'm off to bed.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Wednesday, August 24, 2005 - 11:15 pm:        Goodnight!   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:01 am:        Hey hystrybuf, notice anything different about the board? hahahahahaha   skylark (skylark) New member Username: skylark Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 212.100.70.8 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 1:53 pm:        i joined dis discussion forum because of the menace in our higher institution of learning,i guess i'm late eh.i like discussing about secret cults and i strongly believe dat it has it good sides and also it's bad side.next time shs?   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) New member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 5:37 pm:        rayray, I wonder what happened? I'm so glad that they show our IP addresses on here . . . you can sort of tell where people are from. I wonder if "Ghost in the Machine" (the moderators) decided they'd had enough or if it had something to do with figuring out that they were from the Burlington, Ontario area.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 26 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 5:38 pm:        It's funny, but I printed out the whole thread last night. Good thing I did!   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 6:17 pm:        hystrybuf said "Following Fletcher's departure, there was a brief attempt to maintain Gates Community Chapel as an entity with a new pastor. However, most people had been too badly shaken and abused to continue, and most went to other local churches in the Rochester area, including my family." Very true! I should know!   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 27 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 8:25 pm:        A former Gates Community Chapel member?   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 9:30 pm:        Yes I was a member.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 28 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:09 pm:        Unfortunately, or fortunately, you've missed out on half the posts here -- since they were mysteriously deleted sometime late last night. We still can't quite figure out what happened. Without the other posts, we all look like we're talking to ourselves.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 29 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Thursday, August 25, 2005 - 10:23 pm:        rayray, I've been wanting to ask whatever happened with that young girl you mentioned in one of your posts? I don't know how much you can share on a site like this -- but the story has troubled me ever since I read it.   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 7:35 am:        What ever happened to the Youth Pastor at gates? I hear he got into moral trouble also.   amjspeaks (amjspeaks) New member Username: amjspeaks Post Number: 3 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 161.11.133.50 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 8:04 am:        Your are right hystrybuf. I've been reading through these posts and it seems like everyone is talking to themselves. I thought I was missing something, but responses to other people's posts seem to be non existent.   amjspeaks (amjspeaks) New member Username: amjspeaks Post Number: 4 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 161.11.133.50 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 8:07 am:        I have met Past Brothers and he seem to have a magnetic personality. When he speaks he is quite captivating. I can imagine someone doing something against their will because he suggested it.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 30 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 8:12 am:        The youth pastor that originally came from the Petersburg, Va. area? Initials J. J. ? I think he did wind up doing some jail time for either inappropriate contact with minors or for sex with minors. I haven't thought about him in years. Fletcher is extremely charismatic. Even now I could never say "I hate him" -- he's likeable -- as long as you don't cross him.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 8:55 am:        Hystrybuf, To answer your question, the young girl I spoke of finished out her undeserved "no level" punishment and then eventually left. I never heard anything after that. I hope she has recovered and is doing alright. Yes, Pastor Brothers is charming. That is how he gets as far as he does. But trust me, if you look far back in his mouth there are some hidden fangs that he will use anytime as hystrybuf says cross him or he simply doesn't like you. I've seen numerous teens that were a little for lack of better words "nerdy" and unfortunately they were the ones that got on his nerves and had the hardest times. It's sad because they were the ones that probably were there for the emotional problems and needed the most support. But.....such is life at Freedom Village. I was one of the ones that vertical hood spoke of that were the adopted few of Pastor Brothers. I was lucky, I spent a lot of time at his house and had a lot more privleges than others. I carry a lot of guilt for it because I feel like I was part of the mess but in my defense I was young and it was honestly a survival technique. I learned early to keep your eyes and mouth shut through that experience with the girl I spoke of.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 9:21 am:        Pastor Brothers and his security and the dean of the girls dorm and the dean of the boys dorm all communicated through these walkie talkies and I still remember how happy I would be to get called up to his house over the walkie talkie. It was just unfair and sad to the other kids. I really did love Pastor Brothers very much, like a dad. For me personally there were a lot of good things too. I'm not saying his job is easy. The biggest thing he must be suffering from is a broken heart. I've seen him cry when people have left badly. I've seen him take people as his own and them turn around and curse him before they left. It must be hard to get close to teens and staff and them leave on mostly bad terms time after time. We are all human and that must have taken a toll on him. I think Pastor Brothers biggest problem is that teens go there and he has absolute power over that teens life but with that amount of power comes a lot of responsability that I'm sure he wasn't ready for. I don't know if one single person could be. He's there to offer 100% disipline but forgets for it to be successful that disipline has to go hand in hand with love and comfort. Like I said I have seen a lot of bad things at Freedom Village, things that I don't know when I'll be ready to talk about.But considering all angles the way Freedom Village is run it was bound to happen.   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 12:54 pm:        hystrybuf - Yes I am referring to JJ from Petersburg, VA Any idea what happened to him and where he is now? His father, RJ, preached a great and awesome message at Gates shortly after it all started coming out, proving from Scripture that Fletcher has a demonic spirit. It was a time of healing at least temporarily as the church heard that sermon. Remember it? By the way, do you remember the name of the church that the folks formed as they left Gates?   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 31 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 4:51 pm:        Bethany1: I don't remember the name of the church -- I guess because we started going to Open Door pretty quickly after that. My sister told me that JJ did do jail time because a lot of girls from his home church in Petersburg begin stepping forward and accusing him of molesting them. She also said that he had been or became a male stripper?! That's wild. I don't know where he is now though, but I did google his name and didn't come up with anything. You wouldn't happen to be one of the interim pastor's kids would you? My sister seems to think so . . . (I'm the oldest - but she has a better memory - maybe because I'm older). I do think I remember the sermon. rayray: I know what you mean about being in that position. I think to some extent I was. It wasn't a question of having privileges, etc. since we were in a church setting, but it was stuff like getting good things set about you from the pulpit, etc. But he also made up things too -- like telling everyone that my parents had moved to Rochester because I was a rebellious child that needed the support of his church, etc. My mom said they had never said it. I think part of the problem with Freedom Village is that it really doesn't have any accountability to a local church - or anyone else. I was reading Fletcher's bio on the Freedom Village page -- how much of that stuff is really true do you think? Because for the life of me, I can't place the "street kid named Squeeky" episode at all. . . and when did he become Dr. Fletcher Brothers?   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 5:41 pm:        hystrybuf I didn't know that Gates ever had an Interim Pastor. I know they called a pastor from near Buffalo to come when Brothers left for Freedom Village and that he tried unsuccessfully to straighten the mess out. But he wasn't interim, I don't think. And, no I am not whoever he was child.   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 6:32 pm:        I know one thing about Brothers credentials - he was never ordained. He used his father's ordination certificate. The doctorate may be honorary, I don't know.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 32 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 9:58 pm:        Bethany1: That's the person that I mean when I say "interim". We had been to his church in Buffalo a number of times. I think my parents and Pastor Smith were good friends. Yeah, he's (Fletcher) never been to any sort of Bible College or training for the ministry. He used to be a member of another church in Rochester -- another "Gates" church that I can't remember the name of. That church wouldn't have anything to do with him after he left. But, before being in the "ministry" wasn't he salesman? Perfect transition, I guess. Well, if you're not one of W.S.'s kids -- I'm baffled. But you really can't give info on these boards -- you never know whose lurking. But, you must know my mom and step-dad anyway. Do you remember Pastor Ross? Now there's a good man.   john_r_jones (john_r_jones) Intermediate Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 190 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 10:34 pm:        I remeber coming to Freedom Village in the late eighties and doing television for the ministry. I met a lot of nice folks there and working with the kids on the crew was a memory of a lifetime. I remember Pudge and John and his sister and mom who was Fletcher's secretary. I' sorry for the abuse you suffered I enjoyed my time there and was blessed by the Freedom Village kids and families, as were the people in the entertainment industry who came to help out. John   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 10:38 pm:        yes he was a sales man. He used to talk about "all the riches he gave up to be in the ministry". What a joke, now to learn he's not even a real pastor. I feel even more duped!   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 33 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 10:54 pm:        Well, he'll never be as rich as Pat Robertson - who owns a diamond mine in Ruwanda and a race horse or two! He is a tricky one that Fletcher. But, I've always managed to remember the "good times" before things went sour. I think a lot of that is human nature. I made a lot of great friends, and did get to do some really fun things. The important thing is to try and learn from every experience - good or bad. I can remember having a discussion with my grandfather one day (my dad's dad) about current events and issues -- this was early 1980's issues mind you -- and he looked at me and said with clear concern and exasperation: "You've been brainwashed!" This kind man -- liberal socialist, D-Day veteran, and Erie County politician looked at me as if he had no idea who I was. The demise of our church - and that conversation with my grandfather was a learning experience. I learned right then that I had to think for myself. It drove my mom nuts when I would question everything - but in the long run - I think it has been one of the greatest lessons I've ever learned. Perhaps, just perhaps, if I'd never gone through the Fletcher Brothers ordeal, I may never have learned that lesson -- or may have learned it too late as an adult.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 11:36 pm:        That is true Hystrybuf! Thank you, you always have a great way of putting things into perspective. I only hope that in life you are a teacher or someone in a position that influences people because you would be perfect for people to look to for guidance. I can tell through your written words even that you have the power to comfort and heal and you have great wisdom. If only they had you working at Freedom Village.....I would wager this thread would be non existent perhaps?   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 34 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Friday, August 26, 2005 - 11:43 pm:        Wait until you hit 40. Most things have a different perspective once you're older, and once things are far enough in the past they don't hurt as much anymore. A good sense of humor helps too!   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 9:07 am:        hystrybuf - You mentioned Pastor Roass. Yes, he is a godly man and has been working faithfully with Dr. Jim Vineyard in OK for years. You also said that your parents were good friends with Pastor Smith. That's good. Do you remember a family at Gates whose last name started with Zu? They were also good people! There were many good people in that church many of whom were severely wounded by Brothers. Hopefully, God's grace has brought healing over the years to most if not all of them. As believers, we need to move on and trust the Lord (Prov. 3:5,6).   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 35 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 9:56 am:        Oh yes . . . I dated one of their sons!   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 10:32 am:        "HYSTRYBUF are you going to deny that you are LESLIE A. PECK and that what called1 said was false. Tread Carefully." Punisher/ Called1 wannabe: I don't respond to threats, false accusations and garbage. You're allowed to post here freely, share your own opinions and join the discussion. However, you are urged to keep in mind the rules of the board: "When writing your messages, please use the same courtesy that you would show when speaking face-to-face with someone. Flames, insults, and personal attacks will not be tolerated. It's fine to disagree strongly with opinions, ideas, and facts, but always with respect for the other person. Great minds do not always think alike!" If you can't be civil, then don't post here. None of us really want to deal with you if you don't play by the rules. I will say that seeing the kind of things that comes from the Fletcher Brothers' supporters makes me greatful that I have left fundamentalism far behind me. (Message edited by hystrybuf on August 27, 2005)   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 37 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 10:50 am:        punisher -- you're coming from the same IP address as called1 in Ontario. So don't think you're fooling anyone. Nice try, though. <yawn>   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 38 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 10:59 am:        Cogitationis poenam nemo patitur   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 39 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 11:20 am:        You're both using the same computer. do you know how many "hystrybufs" there are? So you can use google too? Yippee . . . . I've come up with the same names as you -- haha . . . you are a clever one, aren't you? fac ut vivas   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 12:26 pm:        punisher eh??? what an appropriate christian name! aren't you supposed to be a representative of Freedom Village Canada. YOU should be ashamed of yourself because your rude cruel comments are hindering people away from Jesus. If people think that these are the way Christians behave who would want a part of it?? Keep your testimony "punisher". Defend Jesus before you defend Fletcher Brothers.   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 12:49 pm:        Does anyone have an accurate count of how many time Brothers (or Gates, Freedom Village, etc.) has filed bankruptcy? I remember him doing it quite often. Of course, he never minded ripping people off, no matter how. He truly has a Pithonic spirit as Dr. RJ preached yrs. ago.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 40 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 12:56 pm:        punisher: I'd like to discuss a couple of definitions with you: slander: "oral defamation, in which someone tells one or more persons an untruth about another" libel: "to publish an untruth" Let's remember the key in each of these definitions: the telling of an untruth. Now, called1/punisher/dave/mike/whatever: you have consistenly threatened me and everyone else using the following language: "We are no going to have a field day with you hystrybuf. I warned you. You will now be held accountable for your lies. . . . tread carefully." What exactly are you threatening me with? Legal action? Do you know that nothing that has been discussed here is not verifiable through the personal testimony of dozens of former church members and the archived documents at the Rochester Democrat and Chronicle? That makes this information true -- not an untruth. However, what is an untruth is your claims to know who I am . . .and the farce that you caught me in some sin (so you like to watch, huh?) I'll tell you what, Christ says that the truth will set you free. So, yes, my name is Leslie. You can Google my screenname and come up with verifiable evidence as to my name. Now that you know my name -- and so do others on this board -- anyone who was associated with our church, and heard your accusations of being "caught in the act of premarital sex and punished for it" can attest to their falsehoods. Their testimony and a brief little physical exam would be all that's necessary for me to sue your employer, you, and Fletcher Brothers personally, for defamation of character, slander and libel. I'm buying a new house - so the cash would come in handy. Bring it on. You are free to share your opinions and support of Fletcher Brothers - there is no censorship here. You are free to ardently disagree with us. But you are not free to break the law or the rules of this board. Think about it before you misuse this board again.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 41 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 1:03 pm:        bethany1 Now I remember that sermon! "pithonic spirit" brought it all back.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 42 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 1:08 pm:        punisher wrote: "Ray Ray I would be cautious in whom you listen to and respect. This hystrybuf is a real lyer." Yeah, and punisher can't spell.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 43 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 1:11 pm:        Hey punisher, Maybe I'll make copies of everything that you've written (as punisher and called1) and mail them to Fletcher. I'm sure that he'd like to know how is followers support him. . . making him liable for slander and all. LESLIE   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 44 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 1:13 pm:        Hey Bethany1 do you know the co/al family?   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 45 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:12 pm:        To quote punisher: "Tread carefully" . . . your words not mine. <yawn>   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 46 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:15 pm:        http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/libel http://legal-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/slander   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 47 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:16 pm:          hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 48 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:20 pm:        Do you realize that your grammar and spelling are really bad?   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:20 pm:        oh so this is not about religion, it's about politics! This is why all this anger is spewed towards hystrybuf because she is a Liberal????? Give me a freaking break!!!! Who cares??? Who cares if she is Liberal or if she had premarital sex????????That makes a person's opinions invalid? For not being a Christian you sure have a pretty strong holier than thou attitude! Aren't you Canadian? and as for how many followers Fletcher Brothers has... go spend some time with him off camera, off radio like I did and then we can have a fair conversation.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 49 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:24 pm:        This is better than Jerry Springer!   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Junior Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 50 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:25 pm:        Why do you ask punisher? Do you like to watch?   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 51 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:46 pm:        You haven't answered me, Daniel. Do you like to watch? You and called1 have this incredible fascination with sex and catching people, lesbianism. What are you guys doing up there? We are the proof, Daniel. The ones who lived it all. We're the proof you're asking for. Well, us and the newspapers. Oh, I never said "thousands" hurt in his wake. I used the word "many". But don't you think that one person is too many?   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:47 pm:        Things are not that onesided! it's not all good or all bad. I can go to a lawyer tommorow and give my accounts of what I've seen but I would never post it on here. I don't need to prove anything to you punisher. You are nothing to me. If I feel the need to prove anything I will do it in court before a judge. The same way you say thousands of lives that have changed there is proof that numerous lives have been traumatized and changed for the worse. You have not walked down the road I have walked down so you could NEVER call me a liar.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 52 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:54 pm:        Daniel/ punisher had said: "Rayray, I never said I was a Christian." So my questions are these: 1. If you aren't a Christian, why not? Since you pointed out that: "FB is doing what he can to help Teens and spread the gospel. He knows the word in and out, and has proven success claiming Christ as the answer. " -- if Christ is the answer, why aren't you following Him? 2. Why would you care how scripture was used -- or how would you know that Fletcher Brothers knew the word "in and out" 3. What do you base your condemnation of premarital sex and lying on, if not scripture, then what?   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 53 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 2:59 pm:        "As called1 used to say"?! What have you done with called1?   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 3:14 pm:        whining and psycho.....last time I checked I was sane. I'll have to warn my husband and co-workers I've now officially been labeled a psycho, I'm sure they will find it amusing considering my nickname is sunshine. and whining? I'm stateing what I have SEEN. as far as flip flopping like a ragdoll, that's because like I said not everything is all good or all bad. Sorry, I'm not an extremist. To be fair I stated some good points to. Example, you have your head up your butt, but a positive is you are persistant!!!   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 54 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 3:21 pm:        I like that! My question is what have they done with called1? Speaking of him in the past tense is a little creepy. I hope you're not getting too upset up there. (Message edited by hystrybuf on August 27, 2005)   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 3:56 pm:        Wow! This discussion board has really gotten off track lately. I had wanted to keep the issue on Gates Community Chapel, Mr. Brothers, the kids that were adversely affected there, etc. Sometimes the best way for a person to justify themselves (or Mr. Brothers) if to make others look bad. Sounds like a Bill Clinton trick. Anyhow, you asked me "do you know the co/al family?" Those initials don't help me to figurte out who they are. But, let's just say I knew almost everyone at Gates quite well while associated with it, including Mr. Brothers.   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 3:58 pm:        Please don't pick on my spelling in the last note. Sorry, I'm not the best typist. Does anyone know where there is a picture of the old Gates Comm. Chapel bldg. on Brooks Ave? I would like to download it. Thanks.   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 11 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 4:02 pm:        hystrybuf - Do you know a couple from Gates - her initials BR and his JR? Last time I knew they were in FL.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 56 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 4:55 pm:        Bethany1: co/al -- they had an indoor pool that was awesome.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 58 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 6:33 pm:        Bethany1: I did some checking on the internet for a pic of the church, but didn't find anything. I did find the names of two churches that have since used the property, but they don't have websites. I'll keep checking for you though. Also the Co family -- husband and wife both with first names of "R"?   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 60 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Saturday, August 27, 2005 - 10:19 pm:        Bethany1: Yes, I know JR and BR very, very well. They're camping right now in NY. Will be visiting Florida in September. Talk to her all the time. My sister has some photos of the Brooks Ave. Church. She's sent them to me via e-mail. Drop me an e-mail and I'll send you copies. She's been reading this board (has no inclination to write) and noticed your request. rayray: Hope you're doing okay. Usually I do not like to answer in kind, but today was just one of those days. Bethany1: Do you keep in touch with anyone from Gates or Open Door? How are the Z's?   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 12:36 pm:        I keep in touch with very few and that would be infrequently. We are all sorta scattered everywhere and Gates is history. By the way, an earlier post mentioned another Gates church that threw Mr. Brothers out. Actually, he was disciplined out of First Bible Baptist in Greece, but the church that was being referred to as the other gates was gates Baptist temple, Pastor David Wolfe (deceased). All of that is history. We need to live the life God gives us today.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 61 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 5:41 pm:        Hey folks, In between our sniping at each other -- and our more calm conversations and discussions -- let's remember the people down south along the Gulf coast in the path of Katrina. This could be a devastating storm for them -- and should help us keep things in perspective as we stay high and dry.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 9:00 pm:        You are right hystrybuf. As usual you are the voice of reason. I will be praying for them and I thank God for mine and my loved ones safety from the storm.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 62 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Sunday, August 28, 2005 - 9:13 pm:        have a good night rayray. God keep those folks in His care, it looks like it will probably be the worst storm to hit that area since 1969, if not worse.   john_r_jones (john_r_jones) Intermediate Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 192 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 12:37 am:        Thanks! from Baton Rouge... John   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 63 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 9:30 am:        Good Luck, John!   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Monday, August 29, 2005 - 9:55 am:        john_r_jones - I have some very good frineds who live in Baton Rouge - Evangelist Ed and Mrs. (Phyllis) Skaggs. You wouldn't happen to know them would you? And yes, our prayers to the Lord are on your behalf and all the folk around you. I have lived thru some smaller hurricanes and they are anything but fun.   godbless (godbless) New member Username: godbless Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 68.115.145.1 Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 - 7:03 pm:        Hi, this board makes for some interesting reading. I worked directly for Fletch. But as I was there for longer, my eyes were opened. There are alot of good things that happen at Freedom Village. But all of Fletch's dealings just began to oppress my spirit. Since I am no longer on the village staff list, I hear from inside sources that Fletch is turning the whole place into a Pre-Paid Legal Business. He tells his staff that they must raise their support selling PPL or it's bye-bye. I am not surprised anymore what I hear about Fletch. But I will have to say: God really spared me the things other staff have had to endure upon leaving. Thank you Lord!   loveyourself (loveyourself) New member Username: loveyourself Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.103.221.151 Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 - 7:38 pm:        I am a girl that left Freedom Village not too long ago. The accusations are all correct. Pastor Brothers is a man that knows that Bible but also uses it to his own advantage. I was in the program and then went on to become a staff member and saw alot of manipulation and wrongdoing-the reason why I stayed there as long as I did was because I just wanted to help the kids in the program...so I kind of turned a blind eye to all the garbage that went on...until it happened to me. I was a.k.a. a 'poster child' for Freedom Village and worked my behind off for that place...not bitterly but as service and thanks to God...one thing that always kept me level headed was that I realized that the program was about proving yourself to people...and that not the way God works, so I tried just to love and please Him...anyways I was kicked out as a staff person and put on house arrest ect because I told that that I was not going to stay after they accused me of something I didnt do and didnt even listen to my side of the story...then came the threats and everything elese these people are refering too...you dont really see all the wrong that gos on there until you leave. So much money went to people personal use...the donations went to the staff first and the kids sometimes didnt even see it. I am not going to spew about all the things I experienced there becasue I am glad I went there and had an oppertunity to get out of the circumstances I was in BUT Freedom Village needs to get some accountability...Pastor Brothers needs to get some of that too...and yes it is like a cult. Once I left I finally felt free. FREEDOM village is the wrong name for that place, safe haven, maybe, but not freedom anything. I always felt like I was not doing a good enough job, I always was trying to please people when I was there. And one huge beef I have with Pastor Brothers is what happened to the fruits of the spirit? Love, joy , peace, patients, self control?????ya couldnt feel any of those things coming from him. Staff menmbers that have been there for 20 years are still scared to approach him? Its a good one year program and it should be just that..but unfortunatly it centers istself around fear and works...not good and not Jesus-like.   loveyourself (loveyourself) New member Username: loveyourself Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.103.221.151 Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 - 7:50 pm:        I would just like to respond to godbless...you are absolutly correct about the pre-paid legal organization that they have incorperated into freedom village...the staff members that go on these biz trips to make $$$ for themselves should be spending that time with the troubled kids that are there...the $$$ is sent to the village is used for promo material for this biz...the staff are told that God sent them this 'pre-paid legal biz' and if they dont take part in it then its there own problem that they arnt making enough $$$...and so on. It is a home for troubled teens and the staff there should be devoting there time to the kids not this biz. Also they are using people from the Freedom Village mailing list to promate pre-paid legal which is illegal to my understanding, promating it as helping teens get into freedom village...which is not true. Pastor Brothers claims on the radio and all the time that the program is hurting for $$$ but yet not he is making SUBSTANTIAL amount of $$$ with this biz..where is it all going??? its just bad news al around...and there are all facts.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 64 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 - 10:22 pm:        loveyourself: Welcome to our discussion. Most of the folks here can relate to your situation in one way or another. Some because they were at Freedom Village, and some because they knew Fletcher before hand. Hopefully, we've all learned something about the true meaning of our faith and how to avoid "cultic" situations like these in the future. You pose a great question about the fruits of the spirit: "love, joy, peace, patience, self-control." I feel badly for those people who come out of their Fletcher experience with more bitterness and hurt to further separate them from God. Does anyone know about this race car sponsorship stuff I've read about? http://www.whowon.com/Results.asp?TrackID=993&StoryID=150320 Freedom Village USA of Lakemont has signed on to be the class sponsor of the Street Stock Division at Black Rock Speedway for the duration of the 2005 season.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 - 11:21 pm:        loveyourself, Oh my goodness does that story ever bring back memories. Almost the exact thing happened to me. If you read my prior posts, you will know that I was close to Pastor Brothers and a staff member also. I was accused of something I to did not do and no one would believe me. Everyone just turned on me. The last words Pastor Brothers ever said to me was I quote "You are going to go out there and your life is going to be hell and then you are going to die and go to hell!" Nice eh? Anyways don't worry about hon. My life is far from hell. This will all be a distant memory soon enough. godbless, If you don't mind me asking, how many years ago did you work there? I was close to a lot of staff.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.174.246 Posted on Tuesday, August 30, 2005 - 11:40 pm:        That pre paid legal business reminds me of the time years ago when Pastor Brothers decided to get in a business called Melaluca or something similar. Melaluca was this oil(that stunk!) that was in hygeine and cleaning products. He had the whole staff selling it. He even went as far as taking close to fifty dollars out of each students account to pay for this stupid Melaluca shampoo and soap crap! It eventually passed when he grew tired of it but it was pretty out of control for a while. Its true about him having a lot of money and the kids don't see it. You should see the man's house! It's beautiful. He has a hottub out back, a pool, many cars, I believe he has a boat if my memory serves me correctly and the dorms where we lived were disgusting! The little apartment that I lived in in the dorm had cockroaches. We were fed food you wouldn't feed your dog. One time on a night were we made pizza ( which was our treat) we watched Pastor Brothers come to the cafeteria take a bite of our pizza and spit it out in the garbage can because it made him sick. We used to drink this orange powdered juice you couldn't even swallow we used to nickname it "cancer juice" because it was so awful we'd joke we were going to get cancer from it and you should see the luxury that man lives in.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 65 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 6:32 pm:        http://www.laymanstraining.com/legal_opportunity.html here is the pre-paid legal website   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 21 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 65.49.178.64 Posted on Wednesday, August 31, 2005 - 7:28 pm:        well isn't that wonderful! anything for the almighty dollar.   grandpa (grandpa) New member Username: grandpa Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.97.173.100 Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 10:49 am:        I am in need of some information. I just found out yesterday that my grandson has been at Freedom Village USA for the past 5 months. I am a Christian, but probably not in the category of the "Extreme Right" and would like to find out more about the program as run by Rev. Brothers. I do have some skepticism because of my knowledge of a local program (Harvest Acres, associated with the Harvest Baptist Church in Fort Dodge, Iowa). Any information you could provide would be appreciated. If you would please respond to halhinds@yahoo.com.   grandmaw (grandmaw) New member Username: grandmaw Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.208.241.242 Posted on Thursday, September 01, 2005 - 11:39 pm:        This article is appalling, it's a PDF that Fletcher wrote. Look at the last paragraph right before he signs his name. He says I'm a disciple of PrePaid Legal. I guess Jesus will have to move over! The page address is: http://wserver0.prepaidlegal.com/pdf/commitmentbydrb.pdf By the way, for those of you who would like to call Dr. Fletcher Brothers personally: Every Wednesday at 10.00 pm EST Special Call w/Pastor Dr. Fletcher Brothers of Freedom Village USA – ( 646 )-519-5860 pin#: 6423# or look at this page and scroll to the bottom There's another # for Fletcher Brothers. http://orppl.afterhoursprospecting.com/docs/ConfCallsSS.pdf (Message edited by grandmaw on September 01, 2005)   john_r_jones (john_r_jones) Intermediate Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 193 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 12:02 am:        bethany1, I don't know the folks you mentioned, Baton Rouge has sustained relatively light damage. I would hazard a guess that they are ok. We just had our power restored yesterday evening, and internet tonight. We Baton Rougians are attempting to help the victims as we are now the largest city in Louisiana. John   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 22 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 65.49.178.64 Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 6:58 am:        Fletcher Brothers writes: My Commitment as an Associate I am a part of the greatest business in the world! I work with a fabulous team of people and follow a tremendous visionary! I hold in my hands the power to change people’s lives and to set captives free. An awesome opportunity but an even greater responsibility! As for me, the dye has been cast. I have stepped over the line. The decision has been made. I have enlisted in the cause and joined the crusade! I am finished with no money, no time, sight walking, small planning, colorless dreams, cheap living, dwarfed goals and past due. I have a dream and you can’t stop a man or woman with a dream! I have a purpose, a product and a plan. A calling and unlimited power to bring hope and freedom to all who will join this crusade with me. My face is set, my gait is fast, my goal is ever before me, my road narrow, my mission clear and my cry is equal justice for all! I believe I have been given this sacred trust by the One above and to be anything less than 100% committed would be failing Him. I do not need to be right, first, tops, recognized, praised, regarded or rewarded. I cannot be bought, compromised, detoured, discouraged, lured away, turned back, deluded, delayed or denied. I won’t give up, shut up, let up until I have stayed up, tooled up, told up, prayed up, presented the cause and challenged all to join this crusade. I must go while I can, give till I drop and share with all I can and with everything I am...for to do less might still qualify me as an associate but I am more than an associate...I am a disciple of Pre-Paid Legal. Dr. Fletcher A. Brothers My mouth dropped when I read this! If only he had that passion and determination concerning the teenagers he works with we all wouldn't have anything to talk about. johnrjones, I'm glad you are okay. Godbless you and the others that are trying to help the victims.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 66 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 4:20 pm:        johnrjones ditto -- glad that you're doing okay! My dad's cousin in St. Bernard Parish was not so lucky, but the whole family evacuated early and made it to Arkansas.   loveyourself (loveyourself) New member Username: loveyourself Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.103.221.151 Posted on Friday, September 02, 2005 - 7:37 pm:        rayray...I was at the village for four years (and as I said befor I am thankful that I went there and you cant base Jesus or Christianity on one man or a 'program' for that matter but people do and see what gos on there and think that thats how you should live your life becasue that is there only source of exposure to Christianity)I am so glad that Christ is so much BIGGER then that and that he knows peoples hearts..he new mine when I left and continues to love and support me as my Father. (unfortunatly unlike the people at Freedom Village..no one is allowed to even be in contact with me of they were threatened to be fired,, which is so sad)...where did you get that PPL quote????Are you kidding me???thats crazy!!!!...I guess all we can do is pray that the genuine people that work there will show christ in there lives through there love.   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 65.49.178.64 Posted on Saturday, September 03, 2005 - 9:45 am:        loveyourself, I got it from a link from a previous post. I agree Christ is bigger. I haven't been able to talk to many of the staff either which is sad because obviously they were a big part of my life at one time and I really miss some of them and wonder what happened to them. My closest friend who I love so much was the dean of women and her initials were L.H. Does she still work there and if so can you please tell me if she is ok. She had some serious health problems and I often worry about her.   loveyourself (loveyourself) New member Username: loveyourself Post Number: 4 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 24.103.221.151 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 11:08 am:        ray ray: I was in the program when she was dean...and she was the only dean that ever took time to love me when I was all messed up and the ONLY person that said bye to me before I left. She was an inspiration to me and didnt even realize how much her love shined through. She is such a wonderful person and I wish I could talk to her but the reason I dont or havnt is becasue I cant have contact with anyone...I mean I guess I could now or whatever but since no body tried to even contact me when I left I feel like I dont want people like that to be apart of my life now. I miss them too...it was four years out of my life. I am glad that I learnt so much there though about working and loving people. did you play football and did you come back after you left? anywho have a good long weekend and God Bless   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 24 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 65.49.178.64 Posted on Monday, September 05, 2005 - 3:45 pm:        loveyourself I talked to her about 3 years ago after my second daughter was born. She was my closest friend and I love her so much. Last time I talked to her she said she fell down the stairs and needed me to come rub her back. lol. I understand exactly how you feel. I felt so lost at first when I left like I lost my bearings.Did you feel like that too? Anyways, no I didn't play football but I did come back after leaving for a short time.(before I left permanately) Youv'e probably heard a couple sermons on me take care, ray ray PS- When I was in the program we weren't allowed to play on the football team because we were girls. We just started to be allowed to wear pants instead of skirts.   bethany1 (bethany1) New member Username: bethany1 Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.187.86.1 Posted on Saturday, September 10, 2005 - 7:50 pm:        punisher - You want proof? You may have to wait a little longer, but you see all the proof one can stand at the Great White Throne Judgement!!! God keeps the books perfectly.   loveyourself (loveyourself) New member Username: loveyourself Post Number: 5 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 205.211.141.252 Posted on Tuesday, September 13, 2005 - 12:55 pm:        punisher-hi...this is loveyourself and if you think we are all crazy (even though we lived at Freedom Village, worked for the ministry ect.) then why are you wasting YOUR time talking with us??? I know that I dont need to compare the wrongdoings that have happened within the ministry because I lived there and worked side by side with the staff and I saw with my own eyes what went on...its just nice to know that other people saw it too and thats why I have put my two cents into this convo. ...What do you mean by proof??? Yes tens of thousands love and support the ministry and that is awesome but I bet those people wernt involved with the inner workings of the ministry...and what really gos on. And they probably have the same mindset as me in that I was supporting helping teens and what GOD is doing there. Every ministry isnt perfect becasue people are running them BUT the issue is that there needs to be more accountability...Pastor Brothers himself is big on that subject and tells everyone that he is accountable to a board of directors...the truth about that is he only meets with them once in a blue moon and about saying that the Canadians do not support the kids that are there is a bold face lie. The Candian $$$ that comes in for support compared to the u.s. support is far greater but you hear him all the time saying that the Candians dont support the teens that are there and dont pull the finacial weight...so that the Canadians give more??? stuff like that that people dont know about...BIG deal, maybe not, but are lies and not being accountable acceptable in his position...no...Jesus Christ himself didnt get on a platform and say to everyone that his word is law (even though it is) he said that eveything he said comes from the Father and that the Father should be glorified and not him...and that was Jesus!!! So for a man to get on the pulpit and say that he is the ultimate truth and that if you challenge what he does it is against God even though eveyone knows it is wrong is not right. To tell kids that they are not going to make it in the real world and that if they leave before he deams is the right time they are a) not saved b) will get back into drugs c) die. To tell people they are not saved, going to hell ect. not right. As I read in the Bible Jesus is clear about how to deal with people who are hurting LOVE THEM. and what someone said earlier about him picking on 'nerds' is right. These people are not crazy .If he dosnt want someone there he will kick them out even if they need the program and love the most...and other people such as one kid that comes to mind that just so happened to have a father that religiously gave a large amount to Freedom Village and the kid never got punished and got treated like gold. hmmm interesting??? Whatever, as I said God is bigger and knows what is going on. }   canadon (canadon) New member Username: canadon Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.157.171.189 Posted on Sunday, September 18, 2005 - 11:27 pm:        Posted on Tuesday, August 23, 2005 - 10:10 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Following prayer quoted earlier on this message board as anonymous, is by St. Francis. I guess there are no Catholics here. (Maybe no Christians either) "Lord make me an instrument of your peace Where there is hatred, Let me sow love; Where there is injury, pardon; Where there is doubt, faith; Where there is despair, hope; Where there is darkness, light; And where there is sadness, Joy. O Divine Master grant that I may Not so much seek to be consoled As to console; To be understood, As to understand; To be loved as to love. For it is in giving that we receive, It is in pardoning that we are pardoned. And it is in dying that we are Born to eternal life." - anonymous N It's not anonymous. It's by Saint Francis.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 76 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Monday, September 19, 2005 - 5:23 pm:        Thanks, Canadon! I had found this prayer amongst many by Saint Francis, but a few of the places I found it had the "anonymous" tag attached to it.   verticalhood (verticalhood) New member Username: verticalhood Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 158.135.246.191 Posted on Friday, September 30, 2005 - 11:36 am:        I just think he's racist. The things he said to kids were just uncooth. A black guy got in trouble for calling another black guy the n-word in a casual way, which for some reason had become accustomed in our society. I know about this because when we got in trouble everyone was present to add to the humiliation. Anyway he said 'Why would you call him that, and he's your own kind." WHAT??? Your own kind? I don't think anyone would enjoy being called a nigger. But it's extra bad because he was..........his own kind. Freedom Village is full to the brim with sheep and those who just can't fend for themselves. It's quite pathetic. First, there are self righteous staff people who think they're god's gift to the world and abuse their power, who I believe stay there not to help the kids, but because they're too dependent on ole' Fletch. They're affraid of him, and it's really strange. They walk on eggshells everytime he's around, like nothing wrong can be done or said around him. They accused everyone of being gay, or dirty. As in, no good hygene (or however it's spelled). They often times gave girls shower charts and though some of them needed it, should it have been publicly made aware? I don't think so. That sounds like a personal problem that shouldn't be aired about for everyone to know. I never had one, but I got accused of being gay. Why you might ask? Well I was wondering the same thing, then I began to think about it. One time after church on Wensday one of the staff members thought I blew on her neck, she said in a harsh manner not to do that. I said do what and she thought I was just playing. This NEVER happened because for one I was borderline hating this person so I know I would not play with her in that way, or anyone for that matter. She told me to quite playing and not to do it, I denied it and ignored her. A few nights later I get called down to the office where mostly they just played and did nothing and got a talking to about the incident. Honestly, as much as I had smoked I didn't even remember it, I barely remember it now but I said I didn't even remember what happened. Shortly afterward I was moved out of my room and into 6 others!!! in a 1 1/2 month span. After I left my best friend did too, she asked thema botu me and why I never got to 'PC' (eyes rolling) and why I was moved around so much. Though I had PC responsibilities, but none of the perks. Well they told her I wasn't saved and I was gay. We had talks about salvation and I told them when I was ready to talk about it with them, i'd let em' know though I did say I was. Last time I checked they were neither psychic or God so how in hell would they know? And the gay thing? Totaly unfounded, true i'm bi but I never showed any tendency toward girls there because I didn't have any. I think I was attracted to maybe 1 girl the entire time I was there and only because there was nothing else to do. They never asked me or said anything, they just had it amungst themselves that I was gay and eventually would rat myself out somehow. Then, the staff people. There was a certain staff member who was arrogant, loud, obnoxious and quite large and orgeish. That part is relevant though it sounds pointless right now. One of my friends came up to me crying and naturaly I asked her what was wrong. Mind you, this girl was very pretty, and had a body most guys would find attractive. (this all seems pointless too but its relevant) She told me that ms. [staff person] told her to stand up straighter because so she wouldnt look as fat. Mind you, this girl suffered from anorexia at one point and had gone from a 7 to a 14 since she had gotten there and was very self concious about her weight. This staff person told this to a number of other girls who were also pretty I believe because she was intimidated. She wanted to make them feel how she felt. The main point is they don't check up on who is running the kids. They don't dont know about the manipulation nor the humiliation. Rarely did we get a moment to ourselves, we were always doing something. They also limited our time to talk to our parents. 20 minutes at the most unless you were a staff person. and thats 20 minutes a week. I will never forget this place as hard as I try, as long as im far away as possible though, i'll be just fine. Sorry if this message was little more than a rant, but I feel so much better now. Besides, i'm in a relationship with a guy who is absolutely perfect.......and he's white. OH NO! That can't be. A mixed race couple, I don't know if God can forgive me for this one. What a joke Brothers is, and utter joke. PS- loveyourself, did you recently leave and does your name start with a 'K' and now youre in NC? I think I know who you are, if you recently left I definetly know you. My email is ginafigueroa123@hotmail.com. Yes I know how 'original' it is to put your full name in your email, but I really don't care   verticalhood (verticalhood) New member Username: verticalhood Post Number: 3 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 158.135.246.191 Posted on Tuesday, October 04, 2005 - 8:54 pm:        If youre talking about me, youre damn right i'm bitter. I got duped and it makes me angry. If you don't like it thats just too damn bad.   verticalhood (verticalhood) New member Username: verticalhood Post Number: 4 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 158.135.246.191 Posted on Thursday, October 06, 2005 - 1:02 pm:        real mature, name calling........   rayray (rayray) New member Username: rayray Post Number: 25 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 65.49.178.64 Posted on Sunday, October 09, 2005 - 10:18 pm:        Aparantly, Freedom Village is having a big homecoming reunion on October 22 and 23rd for alumni and whatnot. We are alumni..............so what do ya think ladies??? Wanna go???????????   verticalhood (verticalhood) New member Username: verticalhood Post Number: 5 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.206.58.90 Posted on Friday, October 14, 2005 - 8:10 pm:        Let's go, lol.   verticalhood (verticalhood) New member Username: verticalhood Post Number: 6 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.206.58.90 Posted on Saturday, October 15, 2005 - 7:19 pm:        OH MY GOD!!! I just read the post on how bad the food and board was........it's so true. Your food sounds better than ours was. We never got juice, it was either milk or water. The absolutely most disgusting thing we had ever eatten was on EVERYTHING SATURDAY (or left over saturday). On one of these days we had macaroni and chesse with hamburger and hot dog meat mixed in to it. I absolutely refused to eat it, got threatened, but could anyone even blame me? Soon after I left my best friend told me they were given roman noodle packs and bowls of hot water. They are so lucky I had left. Not only would I had probably walked back to the dorm and demanded to leave home straight away i'd have probably taken my bowl and thrown it across the room. This was just a taste of the things we put up with. The dorms were awful. The whole place looked like a crack house. UGH! Awful. Anywho, i just had to make a comment on the food. I totaly forgot how bad it was, because of FV I don't eat chillo nor spaghetti anymore.   havenofear (havenofear) New member Username: havenofear Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 205.250.112.69 Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 6:21 am:        hello all, i, too was at FV. i am still reeling from it all, and i left just over 4 yrs ago. i am in constant contact with many others who have left, both on "good and bad terms". many are also in a lot of pain...for various reasons. thats ok... we all learn to deal and move on, i hope. DANIEL/PUNISHER...if you want some form of proof of this, i can email you many names of folks you can talk to who were there, or who knew someone who was, that can testify to most of these claims in their own experiences.... but im sure (as it seems) you really dont want to know, at the end of the day. thats ok too. we are not trying to slander... we are only speaking of our own hurt... and we who have spoken out can simply all identify with one anothers' pain. thats all. please, theres no need to be so angry with us. we are hurting over this stuff, just as i suspect you are in your own way (either in regards to this, or maybe to something else?). im sorry if we have caused you more pain and grief, or offended you with our need to connect with one another about these issues (i am being 100% sincere... if only you could see that!). please accept my apology on behalf of all these alumni! we are simply trying to move on... away from this common agony, and on to true life, serving a very real God, who is not like the one taught at FV. ***my suggestion ladies... dont go this weekend to the "alumni reunion". dont put yourself back there, where so much hurt was caused. it will just bring back all the pain and frustration and fear. instead, find some way to heal and move away from it all. warning others is fine and dandy, but its time to let it go. if you're wanting to go for some type of closure (which i sincerely contemplated) be very, very cautious!!! remember how it all sounded like roses when we were there in the program? how we would have taken a bullet for FB or anything that was said and taught?? it hasnt changed! they are all "in the bubble" and we know what thats like. none of them will admit to any of this stuff (ever!!) until they are 6 month+ out of it. and then only SOME will find the strength to do what you all have here, and talk about the truths that we faced. DO NOT expect to change it or any individuals that are still there. dont expect to be welcomed with open arms! expect judgement and to be patronised. they will just label you as "unsaved", "hypocrite" or any number of awful things again. why put yourself through that?!? i implore you... just let it go. serve God, not man... nor your own fleshly desires. righteous anger, ladies (and gents?), not revenge! and RAYRAY,i remember you becuase thats what you were called by some there, am i right?... if your frist name begins with J., thats you! Hi, and God truly bless you. i hope He blesses you all with healing... as i pray for myself, daily. I dare not speak of the torment i suffered there. not here at any rate. but i do hope we can all see that Jesus is real, for through the "muck and mire" that i was thrown into at FV, God reached down and i TRULY met Christ. Praise GOD! after that event took place in my life, i was subjected, just like the rest of you and many others, to much heresy and "man's opinoin", with a little truth thrown in for good measure. all i was taught has since decontructed by God Himself in my life, and i am currently getting to know who God REALLY is! its so exciting!I would LOVE to share the miraculous story, but that may be for another time and place. regardless, God is so much BIGGER than Pastor Brothers, and in all the sin and abuse, God chose to reach me anyway. Praise Him for being such a BIG God! (after all, He is the Creator of all reality!) Hallelujah! i hope i have encouraged SOMEONE... God IS real. He IS love... dont look to ANY man for verification... not Fletcher Brothers or anyone! Search your soul, cry out to the Creator... He is the one who will reveal and heal. NOT anyone or anything else! (TEST THE SPIRITS!) I will keep you all in my prayers, and the True God of Israel will heal our brokeness.. yours too,PUNISHER. Salam   havenofear (havenofear) New member Username: havenofear Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 205.250.112.69 Posted on Monday, October 17, 2005 - 6:30 am:        May i shed a few tears here? its just nice to know i am not alone in dealing with the aftermath of FV. (did we not ALL experience that after leaving??) God bless you all, and may more come to find the truth and be touched with the REAL LOVE of Jesus Christ! Jude 2 ps... please, all who have been a part of Freedom Village, take the time to read this post. it will validate your struggles. http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/14344.html?1129500068 or go to this: FACTNet Message Board >> Religious cults and sects >> Gospel Outreach >> From the founder of FactNet - Very Relevant! tks (Message edited by HaveNoFear on October 17, 2005)   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 77 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 8:38 pm:        If we make you so sick here, why do you keep coming back? Proverbs 26:11   havenofear (havenofear) New member Username: havenofear Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 205.250.112.69 Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 9:13 pm:        I was apologising to you PUNISHER... im NOT bitter at all! cant you see that?!? i am hurt and astounded, but SO TOTALLY NOT bitter! good grief... some of us have had experiences that you have NOT. how can you accuse such things? im so surprised... no offense, but you sound much more bitter towards us, than i do of FVA. i have not said one bitter thing about it! im MOVING ON. trying to help. if that offends you, again, i am sorry. but my life has been just that... MINE. you have no room to judge... maybe you should spend time IN the program just to see for yourself what it really is like and wether or not we're lying... then maybe you can come back and accuse me of being bitter or untruthful, even though i have NO bitterness towards it at all and absolutely NO reason to waste my time lying about some ministry in the sticks of New York State. i live on the other side of the world. i have much better things to do than concoct garbage about ANYONE OR ANYTHING. i have a real life, as im sure you do too ps i commend you on your loyalty, though... but please know what you are talking about before you try hurting more people. I WAS THERE! WHAT MORE DO YOU WANT FROM ME OR ANY OF US?!?! GOOD GRIEF, BUDDY! WHY DONT YOU TRY LETTING IT GO, TOO? MAYBE THAT WAY WE CAN ALL GET ALONG WITH THE HEALING PROCESS! if you dont have any healing or helping to to, just what is it that youre here for??? please explain! I REFUSE TO FEEL GUILTY FOR WHAT HAPPENED THERE. AND YOU CANT MAKE ME! so quit while youre ahead... (scene)   havenofear (havenofear) New member Username: havenofear Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 205.250.112.69 Posted on Tuesday, October 18, 2005 - 9:30 pm:        pps... what success? oh you mean us! ya ok, so here we are. next? *(FYI, i haven't met ONE, not ONE, alumni that does not feel this way... staff and students alike. hear me? NOT ONE! when YOU find one, tell them to email or ring me or something... i would LOVE to hear a good success story that is the result of Fletcher's personal handi-work. seriously. i would LOVE it. i promise you, i will then give him the credit you so readily believe he deserves. God, on the other hand... He can change a life. but not any MAN. Fletcher hurts. God Heals! AMEN.) remember, youre talking to the success, right here. hello, nice to meet you, i'm a Freedom Village success story.... come meet the others. there's rayray, and hystrybuf, and bethany1.... the list goes on. we made it, we changed because of God and sheer determination, not FV or FB, but at what cost? eh? would you like to pay for my councelling bills now?? it can be arranged. YOU DONT KNOW MY PAIN> DONT PRETEND TO! GOT IT?? tks, thats great. now we can get on with life... (oh, and just to clarify, that was anger right there, not bitterness. God says anger is good... fyi. there IS a huge difference, youre completely right about that.)   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 80 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Monday, October 24, 2005 - 8:39 pm:        Did you get saved, Daniel? As I recall, you stated earlier that you weren't a Christian. Actually, you said something like the closest you've come to becoming a Christian is while listening to Fletcher.   havenofear (havenofear) New member Username: havenofear Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 205.250.112.69 Posted on Tuesday, October 25, 2005 - 3:28 am:        Thats just the thing, Pun. "I" havent done anything - except let God work in my life, through me, to reach others! (yes, i have been in ongoing ministry for 7 years now, and counting). I know, beyond a shadow of a doubt, i am living God's will for my life! no man can deny it! ... fyi, i met Christ while in the program at FV. i think i stated that already. i agree, God can use a place like that to reach hurting kids ... THAT is not my qualm w/ that ministry. but im not here to prove anything to you, nor anyone else. doing that would be BOASTING of my own deeds... which, compared to the glory of God, are pig's slop. nor am i here to fight and argue. im about making amends... speaking TRUTH and encouraging PEACE, to the best of my ability in God. i love you, PUNISHER. im not against you.   rayray (rayray) Junior Member Username: rayray Post Number: 26 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 65.49.178.64 Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 3:13 pm:        Hey guys, if you could please pray for me. I have an important job opportunity right now and please pray it works out for me. Thanks! I would really appreciate your prayers.   hystrybuf (hystrybuf) Member Username: hystrybuf Post Number: 81 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 68.37.110.142 Posted on Monday, November 07, 2005 - 5:44 pm:        No problem, Ray Ray. Good Luck!   loveyourself (loveyourself) New member Username: loveyourself Post Number: 6 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 72.139.255.80 Posted on Tuesday, November 08, 2005 - 4:37 pm:        havenofear I just wanted to commend you on your opportunity to speak the truth with such class. You are so right when you were saying how all these people have come here to talk about our hurts and find encouragement...after I left I was so confused, I thought I had done something wrong and that if Freedom Village was such a center of praise to God why I would be accused of something I didnt do and then kicked out (well I wasnt kicked out really...I choose to leave then they put me on house arrest as a sr. staff and locked me there until I left becuase they didnt want me to tell the others about the truth) well thats neither here nor there..and I loved freedom village, I really did and I would have put my life on the line for what they tought ect. but it was only after I left and all that happened to me that I could finally see the truth of it all...and trust me its not easy to see the real truth when freedom village is all you have known. And yes punisher there is thousands of ppl that support FV and beleive in it..that dosnt make it right. Cults, religiouse movements ect. have even killed in the name of God but that dosnt make it right. One thing I am so greatful for is that freedom village taught me to be greatful, becasue there were so many girls that were even worse off then me and also what Jesus taught about serving and loving. He is who we should stand up and defend. Punisher..do you really think that we are all crazy??? I mean I understand you becasue if I would have stumbled upon this information while I was at FV I would also think that..but just know that this is our hearts and I feel like only ppl that have gone through this place can understand me. I have talked to Pastors ect. and they just dont understand what I am talking about and "outside people" woudlnt. I was wondering though how you know about FV and PB and how it had affected you?   heavenbound777 (heavenbound777) New member Username: heavenbound777 Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 204.60.68.81 Posted on Tuesday, November 15, 2005 - 6:37 pm: