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pelfdaddy
Senior Member
Username: pelfdaddy
Post Number: 1030
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 166.128.187.188
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 5:36 pm: | 
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On another thread, the conversation concerning Tom Wirght comes close to a solution to a seemingly irreconcilable contradiction, to wit:
Why does Davis teach the acquisition of wealth by example, while simultaneously criticizing or preventing your access to educational and occupational opportunities?
The answer is: He wants you to derive wealth from the building of a church that is large and generous in giving.
Furthermore, he needs you to be motivated by a degree of desperation. The door-to-door salesman on his last penny, whose wife is about to leave him, and whose children need a doctor, will probably sell something more effectively than the one who is financially established and thinking about retirement.
Davis needs you to be desperate, he wants your back against the wall, he needs you to be in dire straits, and he strategically creates the means to get you to that place. He wants you to see him as the example and to covet his wealth and prestige; he wants you to be dirt poor if you are doing anything except preaching; and he wants you to have no outlet of opportunity except for the pulpit by which to gain the wealth that you have learned to desire.
He will rarely say it, but he believes you are a failure if you are not a pusher. His idea of manly, authoritative leadership is nothing more than intimidation and manipulation. All those times we thought he was just being grouchy or 'straight'?...He was teaching you how succeed in the ministry by example. You are supposed to take the hint that "if you are ever going to have a real ministry, you've got to make people serve God. People are not going to build you a church, YOU have to do it, and you've got to MAKE THEM do what you want them to do."
Once a man "gets it", you can spot him easily, because he descends from the place of gracious humanity to the arena of bloody combat. Many try to get ahead in life by becoming a lap dog for Davis, when what he really needs are pit bull terriers. |
weezer
Junior Member
Username: weezer
Post Number: 36
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.6.21.238
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 5:57 pm: |
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they already had me in that position and I think God delivered me from it in a forceful manner all for the better !
All things work together for the good to them that love God.
Davis is coming at it from a businessmans perspective instead of a christian perspective. But, he's determined not to change.... |
donethat
Junior Member
Username: donethat
Post Number: 39
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 71.212.62.211
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 7:50 pm: |
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"On another thread, the conversation concerning Tom Wright comes close to a solution to a seemingly irreconcilable contradiction, to wit:"
Where can I find that thread? |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 2002
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 75.197.98.246
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 8:24 pm: |
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Bravo, Pelfo
Superbo
(No exclamation marks, lest ye be puffed-upo) (!) |
donethat
Junior Member
Username: donethat
Post Number: 40
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 71.212.71.133
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 11:23 pm: |
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I've been reading some old posts from people that I knew from 20+ years ago. It is amazing that time has changed them from being nice to nasty. Is it a sign of spiritual growth or a calloused heart from being nice and taken advantage of? Most people that are abused either break or leave. I don't believe that God is a bully with a big stick waiting for you to make a mistake. Just a thought. |
imaskingwhy
Intermediate Member
Username: imaskingwhy
Post Number: 142
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 208.79.15.3
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 12:11 am: |
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Amazing insight Mr. pelf.
I can't stop reading what you wrote. If this accurately presents RWD's level of manipulation, he is a master. It does ring true though and the way you describe it has me kinda spellbound as it continues to shed light on memories of my past.
BDH |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 2003
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.208.3.45
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 9:25 am: |
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So what you are saying is:
1) Davis doesn't want ANYONE to prosper, except as a church-builder UNDER himself, so that he can win off your win: Skim off the top his cut, to wit: Church-tithe, and pastor-tithe.
I.e. The tithe of the tithe, which was provided for the High Priest under the Old Testament Law. (Num 18:26-28) (Thus de facto: Davis the High Priest of his Nationalized Organization of Churches)
"We want you to win, because when you win, we win!" Davis: Conference (He really wants his Levites to win-BIG-at building churches, so he can get his profits)
It is the principle of making your money work for you, wherein the souls are the coin of Davis' realm. (A de facto result of making a business out of the ministry of God and organizing it into a profitable industry of Levitical Company Men under their High Priest that was there first...)
2) The only exception to Davis' rule of only prospering by building him more profiting churches, is those working on the job (40 hours in the week) so they at least pay tithe to whoever will then tithe of that to him... while working on weakends to get more people into his churches.
Thus ALL others must be cursed who pay not Davis to preach, and so he preaches cursings of God in poverty upon them that depart, or don't pay tithe. (Which is the same result to him...)
And ESPECIALLY them that go on to minister elsewhere CONTRARY to his doctrine, which makes them the real ENEMY, because they cut into his controlling interest in the souls of others.
It's ALL about the Business, and therefore it's ALL about the attendance and the money.
(His third-degeneration proselyte Bradeen even will go so far as to get departees fired from their jobs, in order to ruin them and thus 'prove' God's cursings for departing)
This false doctrine of 'Blessed of God under my ministry, Cursed of God without my ministry' thus has it's bitter root in the covetousness of them that lust after souls to profit from by a ministerial business.
And to support such false doctrine, they therefore are GLAD to report them that return (especially the beggarly and near-killed ones), and deny the reports of them that are prospering as Christians, by saying they are being enriched by the devil while robbing 'God' of His tithe to Davis.
Is it not plainly obvious that those who preach 'Paying tithe'-- which the Scripture never even did in the Old testament-- are them that are thus de facto called Paid Preachers? or Paid to Preach?
And is not Cultism thus the high-art of the devil to seduce and push the sheep into Paying false ministers to abuse them and even destroy their faith??
'Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that entereth not by the door into the sheepfold, but climbeth up some other way, the same is a thief and a robber... The thief cometh not, but for to steal, and to kill, and to destroy: I am come that they might have life, and that they might have it more abundantly.' (John 10:1,10)
Davis-types climb up into the hearts, lives, and pockets of the sheep by false doctrine preached as commandments of the Lord, and by a bad business pushed as service to God.
The Paid Pastor's pulpit-seat thus replaces Jesus' throne of liberty in the believer's heart! |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 2004
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.208.3.45
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 10:14 am: |
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Nice guys indeed do finish dead last.
1) Ain't ain't a word, because ain't ain't in the dictionary.
Nice ain't a Christian word, because nice ain't in the Bible.
Neither God nor Christians are nice, but rather are gentle and kind.
'But we were gentle among you, even as a nurse cherisheth her children...' (1 Thess 2:12)
'But the wisdom that is from above is first pure, then peaceable, gentle, and easy to be intreated, full of mercy and good fruits, without partiality, and without hypocrisy.' (James 3:7)
'Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up...' (1 Cor 13:4)
'And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.' (Eph 4:32)
And is it not striking how that he which has shown himself least like the gentleness and kindness of Jesus' ministry, also makes claim to being the NICEST guy there is??
Which is not a Christian virtue but rather a middle-trait, that goes one way or the other with the blowing of winds in order to show how really NICE they are?
2) Nice is for sycophants and despiteful condescenders of others, and Davis promotes being nice as the greatest example thereof for the sake of continuing to work his business with a NICE face and smiling lips, while scheming and plotting their recruitment for cash!
Is not NICE the appearing of the charlatan salesman??
3) NICE is also the Broad Way of many who do not wish to appear contradictive and thus mean to pushy Leader-types who want useful work out of others: Church-Builders and Soulwinning-Directors! |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 2005
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.208.3.45
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 10:23 am: |
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Thus Davis just wants people to be NICE and do his bidding, even as he has portrayed his own ministry as a lifetime of being NICE to God and doing His bidding!
"If I HAVE to answer the call of God, why don't you?!" Davis: Graham (Crying about the fact that people just don't want to play his game the way he does. They are not NICE like him. WAAAGH!!)
The church-attendance-drive (soulwinning) program is the mechanical engine that drives a man's organization to success, while pushing the NICE sheep to death (!)
Gentle kindness is for Jesus' sheep. NICE is for Davis' sheepish followers.
Davis' soulwinning program is a NICE destruction, because he is so NICE about pushing it: until the sheep are NICELY destroyed at the thief's hands!
(There is only ONE exception to nice not necessarily being good: And that is being on the side of NICENESS with Get Smart!)
And many good sheep are made worse by loyally attending Davis' disassemblies, than if they had just stayed home and watched 'Get Smart', which is better for their souls, if not so NICE to Davis and his program:
'Now in this that I declare unto you I praise you not, that ye come together not for the better, but for the worse.' (1 Cor 11:17)
So, be not so NICE to Davis by NICELY working his program upon others to their destruction, and rather be gentle and good to others by bearing witness of Jesus' kindness to their benefit!
'That in the ages to come he might shew the exceeding riches of his grace in his kindness toward us through Christ Jesus.' (Eph 2:7)
There is nothing at all Kind about Davis-types who only want people after his kind to go out and be successes in his kind of work, even if they do it NICELY. |
tracypelfrey
Member
Username: tracypelfrey
Post Number: 80
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 69.208.5.30
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 2:16 am: |
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A Quote from my husband's post above:
"Why does Davis teach the acquisition of wealth by example, while simultaneously criticizing or preventing your access to educational and occupational opportunities?
The answer is: He wants you to derive wealth from the building of a church that is large and generous in giving.
Furthermore, he needs you to be motivated by a degree of desperation. The door-to-door salesman on his last penny, whose wife is about to leave him, and whose children need a doctor, will probably sell something more effectively than the one who is financially established and thinking about retirement.
Davis needs you to be desperate, he wants your back against the wall, he needs you to be in dire straits, and he strategically creates the means to get you to that place. He wants you to see him as the example and to covet his wealth and prestige; he wants you to be dirt poor if you are doing anything except preaching; and he wants you to have no outlet of opportunity except for the pulpit by which to gain the wealth that you have learned to desire."
Davis also taught a special class in 1994. It was only three classes long and it was never finished and we received no credit for it. It was a special class on Revivals. Hosting a Revival and Picking the right Revivalist (Evangelist).
He gave us a scenario:
You have three choices of a man to choose as a Revivalist (that's the term he chose to use because he said that those that went about preaching were just itinerating and were not "true" evangelists. He's the one who calls them Evangelists.
Anyway, there were three choices...and one of the choices was: a man to preach Revivals who had a family that he was hauling around with him in a car around the country to these Revivals.
The reason: The desperation. The desperate state this man was in would cause him to "push" and I guess...to be desperate...is to preach better... which will cause men and women to empty their wallets in the offering bucket.
Fortunately, at the time, I don't believe there were any "revivalists" preaching with a family in tow. And to that, I say...thank the Lord in Heaven. We see the sad state of things when preachers are static...in a particular city...but to move around with a family like that...that would be awful.
TO BE CONTINUED... |
tracypelfrey
Member
Username: tracypelfrey
Post Number: 81
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 69.208.5.30
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 2:18 am: |
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Someone made mention of the fact that the Kekels were moving around the country...at one time during this past year...checking on churches and that Kinson was in Graham...pastoring. (I did not get this information from their website. Although, if I want to subscribe to the Trumpet magazine...that part of the website is NOT under construction. Money generating sections are always working.)
I am not sure how long the Kekels were out. For all I know...they did this on their way to a conference. Was their son with them on this trip?
Maybe...more would be going on in Graham...(which is one of the least successful works in the organization...most especially...for it's size.)...if the pastor was in a desperate state.
Maybe the pastor who has been there since at least 1998 is not DESPERATE enough. Maybe he needs to feel the pinch...so that he can fill the pews. I think Kekel(whether he's the pastor now or not...is inmaterial to the converstaion...he was the pastor for a long time) has been too comfortable for too long...and according to his own father-in-law...to be in this sort of financial comfort...is to not be working the church and working over the congregation hard enough.
I think the pastor...in Graham...including the Founder...(who was HERE before everyone...maybe even God, Himself)...needs to feel that sense of financial desperation also...so that His Churches will grow.
Maybe they need to be worknig a job on Saturdays like old SeeThruu is doing. Maybe they need to go hear preachers in other organizations preach like SeeThruu does so that they can gain a fresh perspective on the world.
Maybe this is just my Theraflu speaking and none of this makes any sense. But me thinks it is not.}}} |
weezer
Junior Member
Username: weezer
Post Number: 42
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.0.148.48
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:11 pm: |
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if they want the church do grow, all that needs to be done is:
1. stop running it / treating it like it is a business.
2. preach messages received from God.
3. lead people to salvation
that's it. trying to push people, manage their lives, etc doesn't work. if they're saved, you won't have to worry about crazy things going on
AND
God will bless any church that does that with growth.
oh well, who am i to say. i'm just an evil reprobate sinner who stopped attending NTCC so i am on my way to hell. |
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