| Author | Message | ||
     truth_seeker New member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 6 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
OK, now that we have a twelve triber posting, I just have a few more questions, or concerns, I'd like to inquire about. However, Pilgrum, I would encourage you not to loose any sleep at all over this board, just post at your convenience if you decide to continue posting anymore at all. Alright, some time ago, it was discussed on factnet about the case of a male teacher who ended up being charged with child molestation in the twelve tribes. I'm sure you would agree that such a thing is really awful, and it brings it all down to a fundamental issue I have with joining the twelve tribes, trust. Should anyone really, sincerely, trust a group of human beings with their life? There are so many variables of varying signigicance. I know you can't answer for everyone in the twelve tribes, and as a entity or a group most may have each others best interest at heart, or at least have a heart devoted to furthering the work of Yahshua, but how does one come to terms with such uncertainty of a key individual, or individuals, especially when it comes to our children? Thus, I'd like to know how homeschooling is done in the twelve tribes. Is it not something attained to primarily by the parents of the children, or is it as FOAK has suggested, the children are raised by the group while the parents go where they are sent? Have you and your wife been the ones responsible for raising your children? | ||
| julieanne Junior Member Username: julieanne Post Number: 47 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 89.241.154.152 |
Each community has their own school, except they don't call it school they call it training. An adult is designated as the training teacher and just like they would in the world, at about 9am the children go to the classroom. They are taught basic maths and english but the majority of the teaching is based on twelve tribes doctrine and the bible. They also have group singing and learn to play an instrument. Disciplining the children will be done by the teacher until they return to their parents. Training usually goes on until about 3.30pm and then the children return to their parents or another adult if the parents are away working. | ||
| truth_seeker New member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Thanks Julieanne, How young do they start? | ||
| julieanne Junior Member Username: julieanne Post Number: 48 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 78.146.17.49 |
It doesn't go by age. They say a child is ready to start training when they can do certain things like being sent from one place to another without being foolish and being obedient to their parents. Sadly there are children who never receive an education as they are braindamaged and will never be able to do those things. All they will ever do is chop vegetables and mop floors. As a home educator myself I know that one of the most important ways children learn is through play. Children in the twelve tribes are simply not allowed to play. They do not allow little girls to have dolls so the little girls make dolls out of anything they can like a water bottle or even folded up clothing. If they are caught doing this they are disciplined. | ||
| truth_seeker New member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 22 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Wait a minute, braindamaged children who will never be able to be obedient to their parents. How sad...how could such a child receive an education, ritalin? I'm sorry, Julieanne, I'm being sarcastic, that just sounds a little backwards. But, really, I thought the twelve tribes taught that a child should be trained like that by age four or they could be lost until the age of responsibility, or something like that... I think training a child to be obedient and responsible is the most important foundation to all learning. Don't you? When I read what you wrote about the dolls for some reason I thought of a mother who says, "I weaned my baby because he/or she was using me as a pacifier." Whenever I hear this common phrase uttered by new mothers, I must always look puzzled as I sometimes blurt out, "you mean he's using a pacifier now as you?" Aren't there plenty of real, living babies and toddlers in the twelve tribes for young girls to love on? There is nothing like learning through actual experience! I know the twelve tribes teach that fantasy is lying, but what about story telling and creative art? What do they say about those things? Would building a minature house structure out of blocks be frowned upon? | ||
| fatherofaking Junior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 45 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.255.151.176 |
the whole imagination thing is very odd. i saw children using their imaginations often. sometimes they would be disciplined and sometimes not. my opinion was that they really didn't understand the teaching themselves. it was hard to understand. i wish i had it available to show you. i will relate a little story to you that happened at the breakfast table one day with a shepherds 4yr old boy. i was thankful he didn't get disciplined for what he did. it was hilarious. we were all sitting and eating our breakfast and the whole place was unusually quiet. there must have been 50 or 60 of us. out of nowhere this child grabs some food with his fork and lifts it as high as he is able into the air. he says at the top of his lungs; "look dad, fork lift!" every one turned and looked. some with looks of astonishment others with big grins on their faces. it was like time had stopped for a moment. nobody knew what to do. i happened to be sitting right next to the child in question. i looked at that boys blue eyes and saw that big grin and i just couldn't help myself. i started laughing so hard i nearly fell off my chair. i thought i was the one that was going to be disciplined. fortunately my laughter and the child's laughter was just to contagious. nobody could hold back laughing. the whole room lit up with laughter. that is what a child's imagination can do. i never understood disciplining a child for something like that. | ||
| fatherofaking Junior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 46 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.255.151.176 |
Albert Einstein "Imagination is more important than knowledge." | ||
| fatherofaking Junior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.255.151.176 |
Harry Palmer "Following another's path leads to who they are, not to who you are." | ||
| fatherofaking Junior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 48 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.255.151.176 |
Ernest Holmes "Life is a mirror and will reflect back to the thinker what he thinks into it." | ||
| truth_seeker New member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 23 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
What a witty four year old! | ||
| nabashalam Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 93 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 68.190.117.25 |
Quantum Physics 101 The present is defined by a confluence of your thoughts otherwise known as your beliefs. The future is what you experience when your beliefs change. Time measures how much energy or effort you require to change your thoughts, or, the degree of conflict between old and new thinking. And space shows exactly what you're now thinking about. And the one, universal, immovable, unifying equation that sums up all things physical and metaphysical, is.... Thoughts Become Things. Which is all you really need to know. | ||
| julieanne Junior Member Username: julieanne Post Number: 50 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 89.240.207.138 |
Truth_seeker, I have to say that I am quite upset that you would use my sincere concern for these children as an opportunity for sarcasm. I left the community deeply affected by some of the things I had seen. Children being beaten repeatedly for minor offences and a one year old baby being repeatedly removed from a gathering to be beaten because she cried. Every time her father brought her back in she lasted a few seconds before she began to cry again and was taken out to be beaten again, this went on throughout the whole gathering. But the thing that saddens me the most is this one little boy who had been brain damaged because of a vaccination before his parents came to the community. He often behaved in an almost autistic manner. He would make repetitive noises and movements, not because he was disobedient but because he couldn't help it. This poor child spent all day being taken in and out of the room to be disciplined for anything from making a noise to sucking his thumb. I agree it's very unlikely that children with such disabilities can learn to read and write but there is more to education than reading and writing, what about quality of life? This child could gain an awful lot from doing practical things like painting or playing with sand and water, instead he spends all day chopping vegetables or mopping floors. Brain damaged children may not be academic but they are entitled to be happy, have a good quality of life and to have their special needs taken into account. I agree teaching your children to be obedient and well behaved is very important. But babies and brain damaged children have no understanding of what’s happening to them. They cannot learn to be obedient until they understand what they are doing. Don’t you have to be conscious to have a conscience? Yes there are plenty of real babies in the community but that’s not the point. ALL little girls and sometimes boys too have an inbuilt desire to nurture and to copy. It’s how they learn, they watch what the adults around them are doing and they copy it. Little girls see mummy’s washing dishes, doing laundry and taking care of babies and their natural learning instinct causes them to want to copy. It’s actually damaging to stop this. Vicki | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 101 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 68.190.117.25 |
A bit touchy arent we? Truth_seeker is one of the most caring people on this board and Im absolutely sure he/she meant no disrespect to your sincerity. I am sure he/she appreciates it greatly. | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 102 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 68.190.117.25 |
A bit touchy arent we? Truth_seeker is one of the most caring people on this board and Im absolutely sure he/she meant no disrespect to your sincerity. I am sure he/she appreciates it greatly. | ||
| pilgrum New member Username: pilgrum Post Number: 18 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 72.70.19.249 |
julliane has quite a perspective on children in the TT. I will say this: it is absolutely the primary responsibility of the parents of children to ensure their children are properly educated within the TT. It is not at all that the parents are sent here & there without involvement in the education of their children. Most children enter "training" around age six, not as julieanne presents. Hopefully by age six a child is able to pay attention in the classroom & not be a troublemaker. The baby doll thing is quite silly don't you think? You make it seem like this is something exclusively Twelve Tribes mind control. I will say that whether or not I was in the Community I wouldn't care for my children to walk around with a bunch of plastic dolls. My oldest daughter receives much satisfaction in helping to care for her baby sister. It's the real thing. We are such a spoiled, plastic, Wal-mart world. Give me a break. I doubt children that grew up 50-100 years ago had much time to sit around and play with the myriad of absolute junk that parents make readily available to children in this day and age. Is it helping the children of the earth? Are they more intelligent and well-rounded because of it? Truth-seeker, my wife and I are totally involved in the education of our children... Each community chooses teachers and we soon find out who is truly "geared" that way. We have some very excellent teachers. I would say it might be a bit more enlightening to hear from the public school administrators in each of our locales as to what type of education our children are getting rather than take it as julieanne describes. I would say her perspective is a bit short sited. I am sure she had some bad experiences as anyone living anywhere on imperfect planet earth will have no matter where or whom you live with. But lets try and not throw a blanket over all... | ||
| voocitd Intermediate Member Username: voocitd Post Number: 103 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 98.193.216.235 |
Pilgrum - How old is your oldest daughter? You don't have to answer if you don't feel comfortable. I only ask because I saw many children pulled out of school after they reach 13-14years old and they have horrible reading and writing skills. A couple years ago before the TT realized how many people were accessing the internet, there was a large amount of participation by TT young adults. It was very apparent when someone who was raised in the Tribes would post by their spelling. Their posts are still available, go back and take a look. You have to admit that you are not raising your children to become academics (i.e. they are not preparing for college and a post college career rather a trade). It is logical therefore, to not place a large focus on academics once they have learned the basics. The problem with this is unless you keep recruiting people with teaching skills you will have a whole generation that will be unable to teach the next generation and it will get worse and worse. | ||
| pilgrum New member Username: pilgrum Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 72.70.19.249 |
wrong... many of our young people are now teachers of our children, and again you have spoiled the lot of us because there "might" have been some bad fruit in the mix... maybe there were "parents" that were too preoccupied with "building the kingdom" to make sure their little Johny knew how to read & write, that is the parents responsibility and of course hopefully their teacher sees it and helps the parents to pay closer attention to their child's work. True we aren't raising are children to go to college. Are they deprived because of it? What is life all about anyway? It's a vapor. How many college students in today's world are taught to be humble and love their neighbor as themselves? What is more valuable? How many college students have no clue what they "want to be when they grow up"? How many college students around the world commit suicide because though they can fathom all kinds of mysteries were lost, & completely utterly hopeless... need I go on? | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 107 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 68.190.117.25 |
The developmental importance of Playing for children! | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 108 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 68.190.117.25 |
BTW Dolls have been around way before Walmart and Yahshua! | ||
| julieanne Member Username: julieanne Post Number: 51 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 89.240.52.168 |
I can only go on my experience and what I was taught/told when I lived in the community. I was told and experienced that children start training when they can accomplish certain things not at a particular age. I gave dolls as an example. I personally hate all the plastic junk that passes for toys these days. My son has a wooden train set, some cars, a magic set, some sports equipment and plenty of board games and jigsaw puzzels. I don't like violent toys like guns and have never allowed my children to have toy versions of them. But every so often they will grab a stick and run around the garden pretending to shoot each other, I allow them to do this because it's part of their healthy development. | ||
| lets_be_real New member Username: lets_be_real Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 71.98.157.3 |
Can you explain the healthy development part? | ||
| voocitd Intermediate Member Username: voocitd Post Number: 106 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 98.193.216.235 |
Fatherofaking wrote "sometimes they would be disciplined and sometimes not. my opinion was that they really didn't understand the teaching themselves. it was hard to understand. i wish i had it available to show you." Here is one excerpt from the training and the link to get the entire document. "FANTASY (pretending) leads to lying – it is the same spirit. Child Training Notes from Teacher’s Meeting – October 1980, Page 5" http://www.twelvetribesteachings.com/child_training.htm | ||
| julieanne Member Username: julieanne Post Number: 52 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 89.241.149.130 |
The healthy development part is explained in the article 'the importance of play in promoting healthy child development and maintaining strong parent-child bonds'. You can find a link to the article in Nabashalams post above timed at 1.35am today. | ||
| fatherofaking Junior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.255.151.176 |
pilgrum, you spent i lot of time comparing the TT to the world in your postings. it is easy to make the TT look better by doing so. i would wish that it was as simple as just a few bad apples. we are talking about clear teaching. you can deny what those teachings are saying but everyone knows what they mean. once during a gathering my son did something against the mind of the TT (i don't remember what it was). i brought him upstairs to our room to discipline him. he would not comply with my wishes and he bagan to try and protect himself. it is so hard to have to think about this. my son has blocked it from his memory. this is not the only time i put him through this while we were there. i began to try harder and harder to get him to comply. i was literally beating my son with a stick. he was screaming at the top of his lungs in terror. i found out later that it could be heard by everyone in the gathering. when it was all over i was taken aside and told we are not to beat our children into submission. i am not a stupid man, i knew this was in direct contradiction of yoneq's teachings. you have also contradicted yourself pilgrum. first you say that the teachings are old and you all have learned a few things through the years. then you say that the teachings don't really mean what they say. it is hard for me to write these things. i do not want to believe that you are just another delusional member of the TT, but i am afraid it is true. you hide behind the same rhetoric as everyone else. you contradict and deny the truth. this is the reason that you have been able to stay for 12yrs. you are simply in denial. how i wish things were different. i know for a fact that there are good people in the TT. you may be one of them. that does not change the fact that yoneq's teachings contradict the heart of a true disciple of christ causing them to compromise their conscience. you may say that you do not compromise your conscience but you do contradict yoneq's teachings and are clearly in denial of that fact. that is a compromise of one's conscience no matter how you look at it. you made a commitment to uphold those teachings. as long as you are still there you are compromising your conscience. i got kind of excited when i read that you think things have changed over the years. then i realized that it is not true. the teachings have not changed one bit. if there is change it is in total contradiction of yoneq's teachings. in my opinion, that would not be a bad thing. i would like to see many of those teachings tossed in the trash. i think you all could do much better. when i see some new teachings that say you have learned some things over the years i will begin to take what you say seriously. all of your teachings should be an open book. the only reason they are not is because they are not the mind of christ. the mind of christ is to be put out for everyone to see not hidden under some guise that the "world" does not deserve to see them. i think the time is coming when the TT will either will have to change or someone else will rise up and take your place. i look forward to either one of those things happening. the world is changing rapidly and there are many who have the mind of christ. soon they will be gathering. | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 110 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 68.190.117.25 |
FOAK! Most excellent! | ||
| pilgrum Junior Member Username: pilgrum Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 72.70.19.249 |
FOAK: "you have also contradicted yourself pilgrum. first you say that the teachings are old and you all have learned a few things through the years. then you say that the teachings don't really mean what they say." You're stretching my words a bit aren't you? I didn't say the teachings are old nor did I say they don't really mean what they say. Sure the teachings that were quoted were a bit older and I am sure we would hold to what is said but it is easy to twist what is written and make it appear as some diabolical tactic to control the lives of others in a very warped way. What I did say was that it is easy to apply the teachings to whatever one is inclined toward. I am very sorry to hear about your experience with your son. Did someone make you do that? I know what it is like to come under pressure about how you think your children ought to behave or how you think others think your children ought to behave but can you honestly and fairly blame others or the teachings that you actually seem very defensive of on what happened with you and your son? I will stand on what I have said about how things have changed over the years. It is absolutely true. Have we lost the original heart of what was laid in the beginning? No. Have I discounted Yoneq's teachings by saying that we have grown and learned some things? Have I not been "obedient" to the anointing by saying that there are some teachings that are a bit outdated and that we have grown as a people and are hoping to continue to grow in our heart to apply the mind of Messiah to one another, our families, our friends? All I hear is the same things over and over... People are asking if we have changed and learned from our mistakes. I have said yes. But now I am told essentially that I am full of a bunch of hot air. I only compare us to the world to make the point that we too are actually just human beings here trying to please our God. Hopefully we can grow up a bit and continue to bring honor to Him. | ||
| fatherofaking Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 53 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.255.151.176 |
Did someone make you do that? I know what it is like to come under pressure about how you think your children ought to behave or how you think others think your children ought to behave but can you honestly and fairly blame others or the teachings that you actually seem very defensive of on what happened with you and your son? do not mock me pilgrum. i came there with the heart to be obedient. yes i did what i was told. Have I discounted Yoneq's teachings by saying that we have grown and learned some things? yes you have. show me some new teachings that do not require a person to beat their child until they are blue. then i will believe there has been change. don't give me this spirit of the law crap. i see nothing in those teachings that say anything about the spirit of the law. Have I not been "obedient" to the anointing by saying that there are some teachings that are a bit outdated and that we have grown as a people and are hoping to continue to grow in our heart to apply the mind of Messiah to one another, our families, our friends? this is just denial again pilgrim. if you all have changed then where are the new teachings that reflect that change? there aren't any and you know it. I only compare us to the world to make the point that we too are actually just human beings here trying to please our God. Hopefully we can grow up a bit and continue to bring honor to Him. there is no comparison of the body of christ to the world pilgrum. if you have not "grown up" after 30yrs it is not likely to happen. the reason is simple. the teachings do not reflect the mind of christ. | ||
| pilgrum Junior Member Username: pilgrum Post Number: 27 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 72.70.19.249 |
ok, father. you're right, I'm wrong. I guess I should just pack my bags right now and high tail it out of here or blow my head off since I obviously don't have the ability to discern my right from my left and have no clue as to the reality of my daily life. Well, thank you father. You have delivered me from all this nonsense. I'm a liar & everything that you say based on your own experience and perhaps your own error is right and true. I guess we ought to end our discussion now since we cannot reason with each other in any beneficial manner. | ||
| pilgrum Junior Member Username: pilgrum Post Number: 28 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 72.70.19.249 |
did you ever think it might help you if you actually came and spent a little time around us and see for yourself if things have changed? how long has it been since you've been here? | ||
| fatherofaking Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 54 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.255.151.176 |
i just spoke to someone from the TT over the summer. i was literally cut off as soon as i said i did not believe something he said. i was told that we had nothing more to discuss. are you going to do the same thing? ok, father. you're right, I'm wrong. I guess I should just pack my bags right now and high tail it out of here or blow my head off since I obviously don't have the ability to discern my right from my left and have no clue as to the reality of my daily life. Well, thank you father. You have delivered me from all this nonsense. I'm a liar & everything that you say based on your own experience and perhaps your own error is right and true. again you mock me. who is it that is blind here? the things i speak are the truth and you respond with mocking. who is it that has the mind of christ here? you are in denial pilgrum. if you are honest with yourself then you should do one of two things. 1: pack your bags. 2: stand up and effect some real change there. i was just a peon, i had no say in anything. i tried to speak, i was either disciplined or lauhged at. you might just have a voice that would be heard. (Message edited by fatherofaking on January 16, 2008) | ||
| voocitd Intermediate Member Username: voocitd Post Number: 108 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 98.193.216.235 |
Pilgrum, really the old "come visit us" tactic? Sorry, been there drank the cool-aid ruined my life, no thanks! Unfortunately it is the recipe and the chef who created the recipe that I have a problem with. The "teachings" were created by Yoneq who, although human, does allow the Edah to believe that he is the Eliyah or at a minimum has the spirit of Eliyah and a direct line of communication with the almighty God. Therefore, when he "teaches" if we as mere "sheep" do not "obey" we are sheared and sent away. Sure, the teachings I am quoting are "old stuff" but when Yoneq wrote them he did so as the only one (or one of very few) on the planet that had the Holy Spirit. How can he now say, "Oops I got that wrong" or "The Holy Spirit now says". It was Yoneq who told Hephzibah that he was going to cut off her thumb with a pair of scissors and then beat her with a switch until she was willing to offer the thumb to him. I agree with you, that is excessive and in my opinion psychological abuse of a child. Even though you and I were not there, Yoneq was so proud of his actions he published it the "teaching" "Execution of Justice" page 5. "Hephzibah is coming to understand that she is living for her father and belongs to him. The other day she was having great difficulty being obedient to his command: not to suck her thumb in bed. Elber asked her to stick out her thumb because he was going to cut it off. He took a huge pair of scissors and came toward her. She was terrified, but (after receiving her discipline) she willingly stuck out her thumb to be cut off rather than let it cause her to stumble in her obedience to her father." Execution of Justice - Page 5 How do you "interpret" this teaching? All any of us has to do is read his own words. We didn't have to be there. By the way, this is the same little girl who Yoneq wrote about in the same "teaching": "Tell Hannah that Hephzibah is like Paul and says: “From now on let no one cause me trouble for I bear on my body the brand marks of Yahshua.” They are blue and she is receiving her discipline. She is growing up to be that last generation, being prepared, even in her nervous system, to be in that hour of supreme demand. Love Elbert." Elbert Spriggs, Execution of justice, Page 4 http://www.twelvetribesteachings.com/child_training.htm | ||
| pilgrum Junior Member Username: pilgrum Post Number: 29 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 72.70.19.249 |
I'm not mocking you. Really and sincerely. It's just so hard to communicate to someone that tries to tell me what my life is like. My life in the TT for the past 12 years both as a single man & married was and is nothing like you have described. Is there no room for error? Are there no mistakes that people can make? If it's that way we're all doomed. | ||
| pilgrum Junior Member Username: pilgrum Post Number: 30 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 72.70.19.249 |
It's getting hot now. What else can I say? My life in the TT is wonderful. It is challenging, it is difficult. Sometimes it feels impossible to live together and all believe the same things... but I believe in the promises of old. I believe in the words of the one we call our Saviour. So for that I am guilty. I don't have much more to say than I already have. Besides when push comes to shove not many here really give much weight to what any current member of the TT has to say. It's kind of wearing on your soul. I feel very bad for the mistakes that people have made. I feel pain in my heart for how people have been so hurt and offended and stuck and confused. It's hard, very hard to understand all these things. I just wish there wasn't such an agenda to make this life so hellish when there are actually many beautiful things about this life, many wonderful heart-filled people who really want to be kind, really want to love & care for others. I'm not trying to make excuses for anyone or myself... My only hope was to present a value that is a bit different than the common tone of posters here. I make no apology for the life I live. My experience is that it really works if you believe in it with all your heart. It's not perfect and we hurt each other along the way... blah, blah, blah... at this point it's clear that I too have been written off. So, seems that I ought to sign off now. It was nice to touch hearts with some. | ||
| fatherofaking Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 55 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.255.151.176 |
Is there no room for error? yes there is room for error. when was the last time you went to one of those you lead and told them you were wrong? when was the last time you stood in a gathering and said you think yoneq's teachings are harsh? do you instead do what you are doing here? you make excuses for your behavior and for the harsh teachings of yoneq. you say that we should understand the spirit of his teachings. that is such crap. if you were honest with yourself you would see that. everyone is expected to do what they are told without any objection and you know it. obedience to the letter. no questioning. when was the last time someone questioned yoneq's teachings without being disciplined for being disobedient to the "anointing"? | ||
| fatherofaking Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 56 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.255.151.176 |
you are just running from yourself pilgrum. i know your heart. i can hear it. what i also know is that you deny the truth because you really want things to be the way you want them to be. you say you are sorry about the things you have heard have happened. if that were true you would stay and listen and use your position to try and do something about it. are we human beings out here in the world not worth it too you. yes the heat is on. you in the TT live for heat do you not? i am standing in the midst of the fire with courage. you however are running back to your "safe haven". if i thought i could have this kind of discussion with you face to face i would be there as soon as i could. i know however that it would never be allowed. it is a shame that you all have the heart to do the right thing but not the courage to carry it out. | ||
| voocitd Intermediate Member Username: voocitd Post Number: 109 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 98.193.216.235 |
I challenge anyone to prove by any standard the actions forced on that little girl were not child abuse. So a child abuser teaches others to abuse children as a standard. When they do it and it is reported to the outside, they are accused of being "Stupid sheep who mis-understood the teachings" When they don't do it they themselves are abused for not being good sheep and "hating" their children. Pilgrum, you either have a whole different community and leadership where you are. If so, I hope Yoneq does not find out and come to inspect you (for you and your three children's sake). Don't forget, you are not just talking to another person off the street. We have experienced the bad apple falling off the tree and repeatedly beating us over the head. Either: 1. Things have changed (yeah!  ) or 2. You live in a very sheltered community that does not recognize Yoneq or his teachings (uh oh  )or 3. You are not being honest with us. (sad  ) I hope you can hear in our postings that we are hoping it is door number one. |
