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nbrown
New member
Username: nbrown
Post Number: 14
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 71.39.121.221
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 2:52 pm: | 
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If God is everywhere at all times, loving, and all powerful... why is there so much pain and tragedy and suffering in the world?
To think about it logically it would seem he is either not all powerful like people say otherwise he would stop the suffering... or he is not as loving as people say because he is watching the world and seeing this, but deciding to do nothing about it.
Just something I've thought about since leaving ntcc. Has anyone else ever thought about this? |
nbrown
New member
Username: nbrown
Post Number: 15
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 71.39.121.221
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 5:22 pm: |
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To the mystery guest who emailed me... My question is not about the EXISTENCE of God. More exactly is is about the type of God Christians serve.
Do you mean to tell me that children in puget sound are abducted and molested by monsters and it is because "they do not come to Him (God)?" That there is horrific suffering in the world because people do not turn to God? Have you ever visited a children's hospital and saw them dying and in pain?
Your answer is the stupidest I have ever seen. I would prefer you not email me anymore. I posted my response on factnet not through a personal email to whoever you are. |
waitingtoexhale
New member
Username: waitingtoexhale
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 67.9.98.56
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 6:26 pm: |
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I don't think anyone has a true answer Nicole, one of the things that remain a true mystery about God. All I know is God is sovereign and merciful. Man is not in his perfect and glorified state so and continues to suffer since the fall of man back in Genesis. Yes children are innocent, but they are born with fallen flesh which leaves them vurnable to all sorts of wrongs of a fallen state. In the end God promises us that we wil be perfected and healed. Life on Earth is just temporary passing thru. That is the hope that I hold on to through my times of suffering, that one day it will all stop.
WTE
P.S.
I think I know you. Did you go to NTCC in Neb. ? |
nbrown
New member
Username: nbrown
Post Number: 17
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 71.34.194.135
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 6:59 pm: |
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Someone I know asks me this also and it is difficult to think about. I want to hold out hope too.
To just hear someone say (and email me) it is their fault that they suffer, it just enrages me. What kind of christianity is that?
Thank you for responding... and yes. |
weezer
Junior Member
Username: weezer
Post Number: 37
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.6.21.238
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 7:20 pm: |
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His ways are past finding out.
Some of it is because of our own actions, some of it is because of mans fallen state, some of it could be failure to come to God, some of it is allowed by God (referring to Job). |
nbrown
New member
Username: nbrown
Post Number: 19
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 71.39.121.237
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 5:18 pm: |
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Epicurus
"Is God willing to prevent evil but not able? Then he is impotent. Is he able but not willing? Then he is malevolent. Is he both able and willing? Whence, then, evil."
Ehrman
"If he could do miracles for his people throughout the Bible, where is he today when your son is killed in a car accident, or your husband gets multiple sclerosis?... I just don't see anything redemptive when Ethiopian babies die of malnutrition."
Right before I left the Wa area, a young beautiful Ukranian girl in Tacoma was abducted right in front of her home with her brothers not far away. She was taken in the mountains and abused in the worst way and murdered. That was when I started wondering what kind of a God he is.
And well... davis and kekel are still out there ripping people off and messing up their minds.
Where is God in all of that? |
clearwater
Member
Username: clearwater
Post Number: 52
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 24.17.248.210
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 9:11 pm: |
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nbrown, first let me say that I am no bible scholar at all. The questions that you pose are both challenging and quite old. Indeed, "there is nothing new under the sun".
Having said that, I think there are those who have answered these and other questions of a similar vein to the satisfaction of the sincere inquirer.
Allow me to recommend two which may be of great help to you. Ravi Zacharias' Can Man Live Without God. This has proven to be an excellent resource in addressing such philisophical issues. If you like it you may also want to look into some of his later writings. And of course, C.S. Lewis classic "Mere Christianity" may prove a blessing as well.
Hopes this helps |
still_small_voice
Senior Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 2579
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 8:54 pm: |
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quote:Has anyone else ever thought about this?
Of course. It is a question which is as old as philosophy itself.
Why do the innocent suffer, and that often at the hands of the wicked or the ignorant? Why do children experience pain and horrible tragedy?
Not totally dissimilar to the question quickly confronted when examining nature.
God created nature-nature is survival of the fittest-dog eat dog, so to speak.
Ever watch a pack of wolves take down an elk or lions slay the antelope? Nature is savage.
Is nature in a fallen state?
What does this reflect about the Creator?
Someone mentioned CS Lewis, I recall even CS Lewis mentioned he was disturbed when contemplating the Lion.
If nothing else Brown, your questions show you are not afraid to think freely. This is the only way to grow in my opinion. Doubt is no sin, neither is questioning life.
Being crystallized in a stagnate state of non-thought is a sin. A hard wind blows and the religious are knocked over immobile. And as they say, where the tree falls, there shall it lie.
Too deep, I know.
(Message edited by still_small_voice on January 15, 2008) |
still_small_voice
Senior Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 2580
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 10:47 pm: |
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"Where is God in all of that?"
You know, I guess my answer to this problem is in freewill. In goes hand in hand with the 'ripple effect'. If God was to intervene in one circumstance--it may help one person, but it effects everything around it.
You can't have God intervening and freewill at the same time.
Not to mention the fallacy of believing our perspective affords us the capability to understand what these things mean on a spiritual level. Like a blind man saying..."I cannot see, therefore colors do not exist. See-ers are all lying!"
Quite simply put, I see it as we make our own beds and lie in them. God does not bail us out. We are mortals, and mortals die. We are human and a part of nature. Humans suffer. Why? I say it is to learn and grow. It is adversity which carves our souls with depth and etches character within our being. My opinion.
Not only that, if he intervenes in one case, to be just he would have to intervene in every case, then we have a security blanket and life becomes tainted in the tightrope walk it is--by knowing there is a net.
We don't get a net.
Also, I view the suffering of innocents as a form of the suffering servant. The highest form of nobility. If in the innocent suffering, it affords the other, or another the life experience they needed in order to grow, it is truly a gift.
The rest is simply mysterious.
No more mysterious I suppose than contemplating that which is eternal.
The atheist wants to deride the concept of an Eternal God as rubbish. But what then is the alternative--an eternal mindless universe? Is it any less mysterious? Yet somehow this random process was capable of forming a brain which comprehends and reflects upon it? I don't buy it.
The question remains unanswered by the atheist. What was the first cause? And before that, what was?
God makes the most sense. At the same time it is terrifying to contemplate. I mean truly.
Eternity?
Amazing. |
nbrown
New member
Username: nbrown
Post Number: 25
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 71.39.121.237
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 1:07 am: |
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ssv
For some reason I thought you left factnet to write a book. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else. Regardless... thanks for your comments.
Yeah once you start thinking about these things, it gets frustrating.
Then I just have to give my brain a rest and play Wii sports. This is my first winter back in the midwest in like 8 years and its freezing outside! |
i_am_the_warrior
New member
Username: i_am_the_warrior
Post Number: 1
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 67.9.98.56
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:20 pm: |
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Kevin,
Some of us that left are still serving God and others that have left are in a functional "hot mess". (I'll let you guess which one I am in lol!) At any rate lets say God sent you to a little island out in the middle of the ocean to witness to the natives there. All you have is the tiniest piece of bark to sum up the Bible(while you are eagerly awaitng for translation into their native tongue) what would you write? I would write Romans 3:4 ..."let God be true, and every man a liar.." and Habakkuk 2:3-4(sorry I ran out of room on my piece of bark)
God doesn't make nobodys...men make men nobodys |
still_small_voice
Senior Member
Username: still_small_voice
Post Number: 2581
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 207.200.116.135
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 12:26 pm: |
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"For some reason I thought you left factnet to write a book. Maybe I'm thinking of someone else. Regardless... thanks for your comments."
Well, I did write my book. Which was inspired by the fact I looked at the amount of posts I had generated and the amount of time spent on this and other forums and said to myself..."I could write a book with not much more effort." So I did.
I stopped posting mostly due to the redundancy I was experiencing from myself and the repetition I was seeing.
Now that it is done, I do check in from time to time. Mostly the same old stuff on here does not motivate me to post. Have to jab greg_s every now and then though. When I see something like what you wrote, I might jump in. If nothing else than for the guts it takes to post something like that on here. |
i_am_the_warrior
New member
Username: i_am_the_warrior
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 67.9.98.56
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 2:45 pm: |
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..whoopsie I meant to post on the "Looking...hope" thread. lol |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1781
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 2:57 pm: |
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Just a simple answer can be found in Psalms 73. It might help you. |
sogladtobefree
Intermediate Member
Username: sogladtobefree
Post Number: 184
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.155.111.238
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 16, 2008 - 3:22 pm: |
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NBrown, interesting question you pose. As a fan of Philosophy, I have heard a lot of explanations... one Professor(a classical realist who believed in a God) said the best answer I have heard the topic... Paraphrasing heavily
"Do you ever think what we puny, finite beings do maybe just isn't that important? I don't think God cares if you live or die. If you live to be 100, that is but a moment to an infinite God. I think life is a test to see if you would be a good citizen of heaven. Lets face it, the guy who backed into me at Walmart and didn't leave a note, if he was in heaven it wouldn't be heaven. And no, its not a fair test. No religion I have ever studied said God was fair." He was just talking "off the cuff," but I thought it was an interesting answer. |