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the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Member
Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Post Number: 53
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 75.201.59.171
| | Posted on Wednesday, January 09, 2008 - 3:59 pm: | 
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A few months ago, I was dealing with a UPCI minister. While at work, the gentleman approached me offering me a dollar bill. When I asked the point, he told me receiving faked infantile gibberish was just that simple. In defense, he offered Mark 16:17. I pointed out that the longer ending to Mark is not in the better manuscripts. I also point out that the entire sentence (Mark 16:17, 18) is not repeated anywhere in scripture.
He hurriedly opened his New Testament and had me read the verse. Hehehehehe!! I read the entire sentence to his horror. He told me again, I could receive faked infantile gibberish “IF” I just asked. I pointed out that the verse actually says “shall.” I asked if he was redefining “shall?” OH! OH! OH! He said “you have to ask!!” That is not what the Bible said. I asked if he handled snakes? OH! OH! OH! He said, “you are tempting God!” How, I said? Oh! You are tempting God, the Bible says “tempt not your God!” I said “How are you tempting God?”
After foaming at the mouth for a few moments, he went back to the argument, “it is in my Bible.” “God said it, I believe it. It is done!!” he exclaimed. I asked for his Bible (New Testament). I asked him to read 1 John 5:7. OH! OH! OH! He said, “that is not in the Bible!!” hehehehehehe
Amazing how the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism perverts God’s (w)Holy Inspired Inerrant Word for the Ages to suit their lunacies. Even more amazing is the idea that they think God is simply to stupid to remember what he said. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 3990
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.85.121.123
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 11:05 am: |
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i read 1 john 5:7 many times it supports the trinity and not the oness doctrine. i acept the entire bible as what GOD has written (by man ) for us to know. the gifts of THE SPIRIT are there for any one who believes. in acts 2:38 perter himself refers to THE HOLY GHOST AS A GIFT. IN 1 COR 14:1 the subject is to desire spiritual gifts or gifts from THE HOLY GHOST . so THE HOLY GHOST IS A GIFT FROM GOD and the gifts OF THE SPIRIT ARE FROM THE HOLY GHOST WHICH ALSO IS FROM GOD |
easeltine
Senior Member
Username: easeltine
Post Number: 1918
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 72.164.43.195
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 7:48 pm: |
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I'm still waiting for that $64.00 you owe me "Rev???" Sandy.  
P.S. 1 John 5:7, called the Johannine Comma, could be even more debatable to be included in Scriptures than Mark 16:17 - though I know that they should both be in there. |
easeltine
Senior Member
Username: easeltine
Post Number: 1919
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 72.164.43.195
| | Posted on Thursday, January 10, 2008 - 8:23 pm: |
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Of course, I will agree with you Rev. Sandy that UPCI is very extreme, even to Pentecostals.
UPCI believes the following that is very different:
* Oneness doctrine.
* Need to be Baptized in the name of Jesus ONLY in order to be saved.
* Need to speak in tongues in order to be saved.
* Need to speak in tongues in order to have the indwelling Holy Spirit.
These ideas are totally different than Assembly of God, Foursquare, and Holiness Pentecostals.
Sandy, you really bump into strange birds...
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the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Member
Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Post Number: 54
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 12.208.13.185
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 3:37 pm: |
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Mr. Arron:
Quoting: "i acept the entire bible as what GOD has written (by man ) for us to know. the gifts of THE SPIRIT are there for any one who believes. in acts 2:38 perter himself refers to THE HOLY GHOST AS A GIFT. IN 1 COR 14:1 the subject is to desire spiritual gifts or gifts from THE HOLY GHOST ."
End quote.
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; They shall take up serpents; and if they drink any deadly thing, it shall not hurt them; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover." Mark 16:17,18 (KJV).
As can clearly be seen Mr. Arron, everyone who believes SHALL speak with 'tongues'. As I said before, those caught up in the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism simply believe God is too stupid to remember what he said. Your religion demands that one seek what God said shall follow. Amazing isn't it. I am right just like always!! Come, Mr. Arron, my poison or your's? |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1739
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 5:00 pm: |
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Bumped would not be the word for it. Yet i guess that would be a good word to use anyway. Sandy were you aware when you did??? I am curious.
I never heard such strange things. |
easeltine
Senior Member
Username: easeltine
Post Number: 1920
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 72.164.43.195
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 6:55 pm: |
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Rev.,
Arron, Turtle, and I are ready to go and pass out Bible with you are those UPCI weird churches.
Arron, and Turtle,
Have either of you ever attended these weird UPCI Pentecostal meetings...or is it just Sandy that visits?  |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1741
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 7:06 pm: |
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lol, Yep give me some Bible make some of them audio, make them study Bibles that is what is needed. I will go with you. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1742
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 7:08 pm: |
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Truth i am still a bit puzzled easeltine what I went in, but either way I will go. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1744
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 7:22 pm: |
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Actually if i know what a group is I do not bother them. I might talk to their members if i know them, but i rather not disrupt their worship. Just like i would not walk into a buddhist temple once knowing what it is. |
the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Member
Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Post Number: 56
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 12.208.13.185
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 7:42 pm: |
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The Right Reverend and Most Holy, Ms. Turtle:
Yes, I was aware that I was at work (minding my own business). Strange?? What could possibly be strange about the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism? |
easeltine
Senior Member
Username: easeltine
Post Number: 1923
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 72.164.43.195
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 7:44 pm: |
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Turtle,
So, you would have a problem mocking any minister in the middle of their sermon? 
How about laughing at a minister in the middle of their sermon? 
You must be from the South, where people are polite and kind, and the Rev. must be from the North, where people are rude and mean,  , probably a Giuliani supporter? |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1745
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 8:12 pm: |
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Actually my last three comments was in response to your post about giving out Bibles not about atam remark. Forgive me i failed to read atam post. I based response off your post. sorry failure ot read. I am getting tired. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 4012
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.85.121.123
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 8:19 pm: |
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easeltine neither would i go to a church knowling that did not believe like i did unless it was to hear a special speaker or if i weent as a favor to a friend. but i would not say anything that would offend them for that would be wrong. yes i am from the good old south the bible belt the place where the shot was fired that was heard around the world SOUTH CAROLINA, the garden spot of the world the best place in the world to live as far as im concerned ( and i spek this as paul said once boastingly ) the new jerusalem of the world ( i know that the real JERUSALEM IS OVER SEAS AND THAT IS WHERE JESUS SAID HE WOULD RETURN TO) and i think that you for one on here has enough "upstairs " to know i am just braging. i would never laigh at a minister who was preaching unless it was somthing that should be laughed at and all the others were laughng and i would never moch one in a service. if i could not stand what theyw ere preaching i would just remain quit and when it was over never go back mya GOD bless you and turtle too both of you are sweet children ( and ill probally hear about saying that ) |
easeltine
Senior Member
Username: easeltine
Post Number: 1924
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 72.164.43.195
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 8:28 pm: |
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Arron,
The entire Home Church I was going to moved to Weaverville, (near Asheville), North Carolina. We visited them and I loved the area!
My friend was driving and he would waive to people. I said, "So, you know them?", he said, "No, everybody waives and smiles at each other here." You know what they would think about you if you waived to someone in California while driving?
In California they frown or mumble at you if you say, "Good Morning". |
bear
Senior Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 1065
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 66.227.244.201
| | Posted on Friday, January 11, 2008 - 11:32 pm: |
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In California they frown or mumble at you if you say, "Good Morning".
That is the truth!
I had a 12 hour lay-over in LA after returning from Asia. Our group spent the day in LA/Santa Monica. Um...some strange cookies hang out around dem dar parts.
It was cool, though. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 4017
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.85.121.123
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 10:57 am: |
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easeltine, i pray i spelled your name right... in our area every body says to each other goodmorning or morning every one speaks and if they pass you or the street they will eithr smile and nod at you or say morning they are friend ly here |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 4018
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.85.121.123
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 10:59 am: |
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oh and easel tine may GOD bless you and yours |
easeltine
Senior Member
Username: easeltine
Post Number: 1925
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 66.245.201.240
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 12:47 pm: |
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Thank you!
Bear, you are correct.
I have worked in Hollywood and West Hollywood for 14 or the past 17 years. In this area they are really nuts and some of the strangest looking kooks you could ever see! People would not be able to understand what I have seen unless they experience it.
I think Watchman is from Santa Monica...he would know what I am talking about. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 4019
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.85.121.123
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 12:57 pm: |
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ive never been to hollywood but i know i went to one place up north and people we re afraid of their shadows. if you spokee to them they loked at you like you were crazy or something. im glad i live in the south. may GOD bless you all
(Message edited by arron on January 12, 2008) |
matt_hatter
Junior Member
Username: matt_hatter
Post Number: 31
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 24.214.93.12
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 7:28 pm: |
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And a big ol "Hey y'all" to you Arron from Alabama! |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1749
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 7:50 pm: |
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Look at all this cyberlove. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 4021
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.85.121.123
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 8:53 pm: |
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matt_hatter... and a great big hows you all frem usen hare in south carlinia
seriously may GOD bless you |
hardbones
New member
Username: hardbones
Post Number: 7
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 65.95.25.199
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 9:58 pm: |
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Hello from Canada!!! |
matt_hatter
Junior Member
Username: matt_hatter
Post Number: 34
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 24.214.93.12
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:21 am: |
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Look at all this cyberlove.
Kinda nice, now ain't it, turtle? God bless you and Arron, and you Maple Leafs too! |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1756
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 12:35 am: |
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A little surprising too, which I have needed. |
easeltine
Senior Member
Username: easeltine
Post Number: 1935
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 66.245.201.244
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 2:01 am: |
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See what the Reverend does...he brings us all together in unity! |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1757
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 5:43 am: |
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You know easeltine, I think I do desire to see unity, to see us in one accord like in the first verse in Acts 2, but seriously who is the rev. Is it you, matt hatter, arron, so forth? |
watchman_2
Member
Username: watchman_2
Post Number: 92
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.92.33.240
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 7:25 am: |
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There will be no unity. All that one can do is lay the foundation for those that are caught up in Pentecostalism, and whom also have eyes to see truth, so that they can find their way out.
I know that it is not impossible as there are many whom have seen Pentecostalism for what it truly is -- a religion based upon false rituals, fakery, and misinterpretation of scripture.
Pentecostalism is especially dangerous in that the religion stresses spiritualism with seducing spirits and, by vast majority, promotes the Doctrine of Satan -- 'rapture'.
My late wife was a die-hard Pentecostalist as a youth and young adult. As a babe in Christ, she brought many into Pentecostalism. When she became an adult in Christ, she realized the error of her ways. She spent a great deal of her remaining time and effort attempting to repair the damage she did in her youth. I was very proud of her.
So, though I witness the banter of unity flung around by some of you Pentecostalists, in reality, you are simply circling the wagons as you know that it has been proven, but you are unwilling to admit, that the principles of Pentecostalism are false.
As babes in Christ, you simply blind yourself to God's Truth. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1758
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 7:38 am: |
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Watchman, do you believe God has no power today. No ability today? If so how did God loose power?
Even I admit there are problems but i also admit this that God is very real and created all things and He is the same yesterday today and forever. So if God does not change, does his ability to change the heart change.
What your deal watchman are you a non believer in God's ability? I am not talking about man ability in the least just God. God moving in the heart of man beyond legalist and emotional lines. |
matt_hatter
Junior Member
Username: matt_hatter
Post Number: 36
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 24.214.93.12
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 11:05 am: |
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Thank you Watchman. What would we do without you and TATM? Has it ever occurred to you just how arrogant you sound? One puny human, born well over 2000 years after the Cross, and all of a sudden YOU have a corner on the Truth! I see you and TATM as a refection of each other. Different beliefs but both totally convinced that everyone else is wrong.
I am a former charismatic, and even though it is not for me personally, I have many friends and and a few family members who are still involved. I consider them brothers in Christ. By your own words you must too, as you referred to some in here as 'babes in Christ'. Yet you also refer to them as practicing a doctrine of Satan. So what is it? Are these folks children of Satan, or co-heirs with Christ?
My beef is not so much doctrine, which you seem to be so obsessed, but on the lack of character of many nationally known charismatic preachers.
Get over yourself. Sheesh. You and TATM both seem like miserable, unhappy people.
A merry heart doeth good like medicine... |
bear
Senior Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 1066
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 66.227.244.201
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 1:19 pm: |
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Watchman,
As your wife did, so am I in the process of doing know.
My wife and I were speaking the other night about our religious past, and it is apparent that she has worked through her Pentecostal past faster than I. I am still frustrated by what I see as false doctrines and practices. For her, it easier to move on; for me, exposing these doctrines and practices is important.
The P/C folks on these threads are so steeped in their unbiblical practices, pawned off as biblical, that my mind goes into overdrive. I want P/C folks to understand that there is real freedom in Christ outside of this sect. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 4022
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.85.117.85
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 2:26 pm: |
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pentecostals are not in a false religion. there may be a lot of fakery i dont know but if it is ever fake one who is truly saved can tell. among the pentecostal groups that i have visted one only has to hear something that is not right and they know it. THE HOLY GHOST gives us decerment
may GOD bless you all |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1759
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 3:23 pm: |
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I was looking at two newsletters today. One seem to glorify God and the other seem to glorify church membership. Now here was my problem. I know both groups teach Christ. i know both groups love the Lord equally. But here was what I noticed one newsletter was about church activities and the other was about what God was doing and sharing a short message. Through independent eyes I might see one thing others see another. How we view and what we see is what we often do not understand. If i been someone on the street no awareness of church i would of been drawn to one newsletter type and not another, but the results of learning about God would be the same if I attended either church. Needless to say each group has its flaws, but each group also has it pluses. Each group teaches scripture and it really is up to the individual to search out truth in God's word. It can not be left to teachers and preachers after a certain point. Each is responsible to know what they believe and who God is to them. You can not blame a minister or a group, must look to one self to know yourself what you believe. If it causes you to leave a group then maybe that is best. If you stay with a group, you must always remember to speak the truth of the Love of God that is in you. Responsibility lies with you and your relationship with God. |
bear
Senior Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 1069
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 66.227.244.201
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 8:00 pm: |
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Arron,
the HS gives me diserment as well. I hear stuff in a Pentecostal setting, and I know it is not right.
Who is correct?
You admitted that you do not have any biblical training outside of what you have been taught and read in the bible for yourself.
You admitted that you do not care what other theologians state in a commentary if it disagrees with your beliefs and interpretation of a doctrine.
You have proven through your inability to produce scripture, for which you boldly state you know and believe, to give support to your crazy accusations.
I ask you, who is correct?
Remember, those who are in a false religion, do not know it or believe it.
Who is correct?
How do you know that you are correct? Please do not give me the Holy Spirit told you stuff, for each and every one of us can say that. You need to know "why" you believe something, and be able to support it. |
the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Member
Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries
Post Number: 58
Registered: 10-2005
Posted From: 12.208.13.185
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 8:13 pm: |
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Mr. Matt_Hatter:
Quoting: "Has it ever occurred to you just how arrogant you sound?"
End quote.
Did it ever occur to you just how arrogant those caught up in the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism are?
Quotin: "Watchman, do you believe God has no power today. No ability today? If so how did God loose power?
Even I admit there are problems but i also admit this that God is very real and created all things and He is the same yesterday today and forever. So if God does not change, does his ability to change the heart change.
What your deal watchman are you a non believer in God's ability? I am not talking about man ability in the least just God. God moving in the heart of man beyond legalist and emotional lines."
End quote.
posted by The Right Reverend and Most Holy, Ms. Turtle. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1760
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 8:34 pm: |
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Bear, I like to here how arron will explain it, but for me I use my Bible as a plumbline. I measure truth by it. Also the Holy Spirit uses the word. I examine scripture from one end to the other on a subject til I am exhausted, and I look at other scholars views.
But for me a key book in the Bible that help me cope through out was I John. The book that teaches you how to weigh truth from a lie. God bless take care bear, I hope you will get your answer and understanding. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1762
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 9:22 pm: |
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Bear one more thing I forgot to add to my statement, do alot of praying and ask God for discernment, understanding, wisdom and awareness. |
watchman_2
Member
Username: watchman_2
Post Number: 99
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.92.33.240
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 10:32 pm: |
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turtle,
quote:What your deal watchman are you a non believer in God's ability? I am not talking about man ability in the least just God. God moving in the heart of man beyond legalist and emotional lines.
Sorry to disappoint you -- I am a complete believer. You just misconstrue the purpose for our existence in the flesh. The so-called 'unity' of the church is a figment of man's imagination -- not a doctrine of the Bible.
God comes to separate the wheat from the chaff. Upon his return, a majority of the ones alive at the time whom will be going off to hell with a certain trip to the Lake of Fire are not the Muslims, Hindus, Buddhists, etc. -- but, are christians. It is those christians that should know better, but whore after Satan instead, are the ones that don't make it. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 4024
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.85.117.85
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 10:43 pm: |
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i also use the bible as my guide line .. bear...
and i do think that i john the entire bookd of 1 john tells us this i also use decernment
and contrary to what some feel im not here to argue
may GOD bless you |
watchman_2
Member
Username: watchman_2
Post Number: 100
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.92.33.240
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 10:45 pm: |
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matt_hatter,
quote:I consider them brothers in Christ. By your own words you must too, as you referred to some in here as 'babes in Christ'. Yet you also refer to them as practicing a doctrine of Satan. So what is it? Are these folks children of Satan, or co-heirs with Christ?
Kenites are offspring of Satan -- not necessarily Pentecostals.
There is no such thing as a co-heir of Christ. Christ is the ONLY begotten Son of God, the King of kings, Lord of lords etc. The term 'co-heir' is an invention of man. It is wholly unbiblical as you used it.
quote:My beef is not so much doctrine, which you seem to be so obsessed, but on the lack of character of many nationally known charismatic preachers.
It is true that I have referred to 'fake' healings and have named Benny Hinn as one of them. That is not a new revelation as many have said the same thing.
As far as charismatic preachers [I have no idea whom they are], I lump them all in the class of false preachers. I have never assailed their lack of character -- only their lack of knowledge. To the extent that they participate in fake healings, they are frauds as well. |
watchman_2
Intermediate Member
Username: watchman_2
Post Number: 101
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.92.33.240
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 11:30 pm: |
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Bear,
When I met my late wife, she had already been excommunicated from her Pentecostal church for asking too many questions, refusing to do 'gibberish', and advising other congregants to do the same. Yet, she was still indoctrinated in all of the Pentecostal false beliefs.
So, when I met her and we discussed Bible for the first time, she reacted similar to the P/Cers on this site -- that I was practically Satan, himself, for speaking against all those P/C doctrines. [The brainwashing at these P/C churches must be extensive.]
Like many here, she wondered how in the world I could state that I was a Christian and speak against those things she understood to be complete Truth. Needless to say, like the P/C folks here, she would have none of it -- even referred to my opposing doctrines as heresy...my words blasphemy.
Well, I was only able to get thru to her, not by addressing P/C theology, but, by discussing other aspects of Bible instruction that she never received in her Pentecostal indoctrination.
Once she was willing to sit down and learn other things, she realized that I was telling her the Truth of God's Word. Then, it was a short span of time and she was examining Pentecostal theology with true understanding.
I recall when she attempted to set the record straight with a group she had led to Pentecostalism. We all sat down and she gave a brief explanation of her life etc. since she left their church.
They were all happy and cordial up to the moment when she aplogized to them for bringing them in to Pentecostalism. She went on to explain about all those false beliefs and practices. There was nothing but saddened faces and comments how the devil got to her, etc. No one listened to her or bothered to give a cordial good-bye.
I consoled my late wife by explaining that she should not be saddened by the lack of results, but heartened in that she had the opportunity to set the record straight. I am confident that, in God's eyes, her effort was deemed perfect.
Likewise, as you go forward, please keep in mind that, though you were a preacher in that sect and were accountable for any misleading in those false teachings, our God is merciful and your repentence for those times, along with your devotion to undoing the damage, is perfect in God's eyest too.
May God bless you, your wife, and your family in your efforts! |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1764
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 11:58 pm: |
|
Arron you are correct we do not wish to argue but I wish you gone in more detail on your post, I know you are capable, i have seen your work. Yet I understand why you keep it short.
Have you ever done a study on circumcision of the heart Arron, I think this would enlighten many here on what a true believer is. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1765
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 12:18 am: |
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watchman,
sorry to hear your wife's story. Define a believer to me watchman and why there can not be unity using scripture if you do not mind. |
watchman_2
Intermediate Member
Username: watchman_2
Post Number: 102
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 66.92.33.240
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 9:48 am: |
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turtle,
quote:sorry to hear your wife's story.
One should not be sorry -- her story is heartening for and informative to me. Likewise, it should be to you.
Though it is practically impossible to avoid getting involved in personal bickery at times and getting a bit disappointed when people fail to admit their error, I realise that such matters are typical of flesh man. My Christian duty soley rests in presenting the Truth of God's Word here.
So, I understand that it is God's Word that will do the correcting -- not my words. Those that love God's Word will seek to better understand it. My work here will help them.
Those that are just religionists -- out to promote their own indoctrination -- will simply be offended by the Truth, thereby resulting in their issuing of personal insults here. Factnet is replete with these religionists [fondly referred to as religious hacks].
Nonetheless, the seed is planted and, if someday they become adults in Christ, they may remember God's Truth presented here. However, I learned from my late wife's example that my Christian duty is not measured in results -- but, in seeds of Truth planted.
quote:Define a believer to me watchman and why there can not be unity using scripture if you do not mind.
I am not a church historian and am not knowledgeable on when and by whom the modern 'unity' movement commenced. Perhaps others here will be of more assistance to you on the history of this movement.
As for scriptures that tell us there will be no unity, I can help:
At the end of this flesh dispensation of time, Christ judges the 7 types of churches. His judgment is given in Rev. 2, 3. The mere fact that there are seven types of churches informs us that there will never be church 'unity' before His return.
To me, the pertinent question is whether one should be working toward 'unification' of the church. If only the Doctrine of Christ was taught, the answer would be YES. Otherwise, the answer would be NO.
Unification was attempted at one time -- the Roman Catholic Church. That didn't work out too well over time as that religion became corrupted by man. Christ judges somewhat against this church [see Rev. 2:1-7].
Even if 'unification' solely revolved around the doctrines that all that profess to be Christians can agree upon, what would we have?? Most cannot agree on the most basic principle of Christianity -- Christ. At best, a 'unification' church would only be able to feed the flock the 'milk' of God's word. Any 'meat' of God's word would not be able to be presented due to disagreement.
If 'Unification' means conforming all christians to P/C beliefs, the answer is absolutely NO! Such beliefs will lead to worshipping Satan thru 'rapture' and ensure all involved to miss the first resurrection.
With respect to a 'believer', Christ explains it better than I could ever hope to -
Joh 14:12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
Those that believe will do works. Christ gave us a parable related to belief/works. See Matt. 25:14-30.
Therein, the Kingdom of God is likened onto an investment. The believer that does nothing with that belief [buries it] has that belief taken away from him/her and is sorely diappointed when Christ returns. In other words, that believer loses out on the Kingdom of God. |
bear
Senior Member
Username: bear
Post Number: 1071
Registered: 4-2005
Posted From: 66.227.244.201
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 11:56 am: |
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Watchman,
Thank you for the encouragement. |
turtle
Senior Member
Username: turtle
Post Number: 1768
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 72.66.229.201
| | Posted on Monday, January 14, 2008 - 2:07 pm: |
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Bear,
I did not mean sorry in a sarcastic way, I was sorry because of that situation was put upon her. It was not her fought. When churches began to splinter they bring strange things in sometimes. And sometimes they bring truth. |
arron
Senior Member
Username: arron
Post Number: 4028
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 71.85.116.220
| | Posted on Tuesday, January 15, 2008 - 9:39 am: |
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unity of every on into a one world one religion was attemptd at babylon and will be attempted again in the last days before and by the antichrist . it didnt work then and it wont work now or ever. man as he is now will always have disagreements till JESUS returns and reigns as LORD AND SAVIOR and then peace and unity will come for all. but untill then we are going to disagree and argue and all over different points of THE WORD and other things too. we can go to where we know THE LORD IS at church and leave all these other things alone that dont really matter anyway. you and i are saved by faith IN THE BLOOD OF JESUS AND BY FAITH IN HIS NAME. weACCEPT HIM INTO OUR HEARTS AND ARE SAVED. |