| Author | Message | ||
     the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 5 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 75.201.226.35 |
A short time back, I sat in an Assembly of God church on Sunday morning. After an hour and a half of psychedelic hype, the minister stepped onto the chancel. Brother Mike, as he referred to himself, began waving his arms in the air and declaring “Jesus, I appreciate you!” “Someone give me testimony!!” he exclaimed. The sermon that morning was loosely on “Once saved, always saved.” Throughout the diatribe, the minister kept asking himself questions, “Brother Mike, what about . . .?” “Brother Mike, I . . . ?” Brother Mike was carefully building himself the perfect strawman. I was approached by an elder(?) or deacon(?) or maybe a handler(?) and asked if I was OK? Your laugher is overwhelming Brother Mike’s sermon. I apologized to the gentleman, but I found it hilarious. No, hilarious is not the right word. Comical, yeah, that word is also appropriate. Absurdity, yes, that is another good word for it. In a ten minute period of time, Brother Mike read a single verse from his bible five different times. The verse? Allow me to quote Brother Mike. “And then will I profess unto them, I don’t know you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23. Each time he read the verse, I laughed louder expecting someone to speak up. As I have said in the past, no AoG preacher can ever read from God’s (w)Holy Inerrant Inspired Word for the Ages from the pulpit. Every one of them has signed a sworn statement declaring they will only preach that religion’s doctrinal statement from the pulpit. After the service, we gave out fifty Bibles to the seventy-five or so people who attended Brother Mike’s psychodrama. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1855 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.195 |
"The sermon that morning was loosely on “Once saved, always saved.”" Anybody out there ever hear of a Pentecostal giving a sermon on "once saved, always saved?"  "“And then will I profess unto them, I don’t know you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23." The proof text for a sermon on "once saved, always saved?" Man, I have seen people stretch Scripture on FACTnet, but that is way over the top. Sort of a fantasy story? "...no AoG preacher can ever read from God’s (w)Holy Inerrant Inspired Word for the Ages from the pulpit." "In a ten minute period of time, Brother Mike read a single verse from his bible five different times." So, did he read Matthew 7:23 or did he not read Matthew 7:23? He either did or he didn't. "Every one of them has signed a sworn statement declaring they will only preach that religion’s doctrinal statement from the pulpit." Oh, so that's the Assembly of God doctrinal statement of "once saved always saved?"  or is it Matthew 7:23?  Man, he gets more strange everytime he tells us a story. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 8 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 70.220.112.142 |
Mr. Easeltine: You must way back in the sticks. Loosely means lacking in precision, exactness, or care; or permitting freedom of interpretation. Your minister's sermon would more exactly be entitled "Carnal Salvation." And, yes, Mr. Easeltine that is your doctrinal statement. ps and by the by, you should attend a sermon at one of the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism's psychodrama sometime. I have heard them use titles like "What Would Jesus Do?" "Salvation." "Tongues." "Know your Bible."etc. (Message edited by the apostolic truth ministries on January 01, 2008) | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1857 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.195 |
Please explain what you mean by "once saved always saved", vs. "carnal salvation", vs. the application of Matthew 7:23 to either definitions. "Brother Mike" lol , would be saying that one who practices iniquity isn't saved, this would seem opposite the term, "carnal salvation", a terminology that I cannot find a theological statement on "carnal salvation." The way John Mac Arthur, (and LORDSHIP eternal security types), would agree with, "Brother Mike", for Scripture is teaching us from Matt. 7:23 that those who work iniquity aren't saved, and that they were never saved in the first place. It is a rare Pentecostal that believes in "eternal security", especially as set forth by the Synod of Dordrecht over 50 years after Calvin's death. Finney called that hyper-calvinism, and is over the top. Tulip is baloney to most Pentecostals, (especially me). Pentecostals believe in "LORDSHIP Salvation", and that a person who is practicing iniquity is not saved. Even the Pentecostal minister that is practicing iniquity is not saved! | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3920 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.117.203 |
tatm.. i am going again to ask you a questions are you saved? do you believe that JESUS IS THE CHRIST THE ONLY WAY TO SALVATION? what is your church affiliation, by name , alos where did you get your doctorate, school church or what ever, and who ordained you. untill you answer these questions you will not be believed by most of the people on this board | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1858 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.195 |
Arron, Have you ever heard of a Pentecostal believing in "once saved always saved" or "carnal salvation" - saved if you practice sin/iniquity without repentance? That's what TATM seems to be saying and I have never heard any Pentecostal believing this. Pentecostals believe in repentance, stopping the practices of iniquity, LORDSHIP to Jesus Christ is a requirement for salvation, that's the way Pentecostals believe. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3922 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.117.203 |
easeltine ... no i have never heard of that. all the pentecostals that i know of belive that you must or will stop sin when you get saved , before then you cant stop but after salvation and that is for every body you then have the power not to sin any more | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1859 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.195 |
It really makes me think that TATM doesn't know what he is talking about! Pentecostalism has always focused on LORDSHIP and HOLINESS as a requirement for salvation, and not on this cheap grace, "once saved always saved do whatever sin you want", (the kind without LORDSHIP), heresy. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 70.220.27.161 |
Mr. Easeltine: Your feigned self-righteousness is overwhelming. “Carnal Salvation” is most certainly taught by the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism. The theory holds that one loses his/her salvation by an act of man (iniquity). Face it, my man, your fraud of a preacher was forced to misquote the Bible to support the lunacy of your religion. Now deal with it. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 12 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 70.220.27.161 |
Mr. Arron: We will discuss me when we run out of things to say about the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism. There is no need to confuse simple minds. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3923 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.117.203 |
you are always saying something about pentecostalisim and never about any other denomonation. why? because you were hurt somehow by a pentecostal who got out of the way and did or said something you took as hurtful OR you got hit by THE WORD OF GOD which a pentecostal preached to you and got mad about it. i for one feel you will keep on saying things about us untill you get saved (Message edited by arron on January 01, 2008) | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1864 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.195 |
TATM, So, are you actually saying, "once saved always saved", and no LORDSHIP to Christ is necessary? I found a website to clarify the Biblical Assurance of Salvation - Sin * The believer's life is characterized by - confession of sin (1 John 1:9), in contrast to the various denials of sin by the unregenerate. - obedience to the commandments of God (1 John 2:3,4; 3:22-24) - love of the brethren, which is defined in terms of obedience to the law of God (1 John 5:2,3; Romans 13:10) - the practice of righteousness and an increasingly holy lifestyle, i.e., one which is not dominated by sin (1 John 2:29-3:10) * Although believers can and do sin - sin does not have dominion over them (1 John 2:1) - "But thanks be to God that though you were slaves of sin, you became obedient from the heart to that form of teaching to which you were comitted, and having been freed from sin, you became slaves of righteousness." (Romans 6:17,18) Above from http://www.ae.gatech.edu/people/dhodges/papers/LJC.pdf LORDSHIP to Jesus Christ, true repentance, doing what He tells us to do, is absolutely necessary . There are many theologians that understand this. If you are one of those types that believe in "once saved always saved" then the person practicing sin wasn't saved in the first place. For they are not saved now. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1865 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.195 |
So, "Why isn't Brother Mike saved?" Please explain. Also, please explain why you have the right to laugh in the middle of a person's sermon. How are you different than a laughing movement person? Were you mocking Brother Mike? There are many aspects of your story that make the whole thing a lie to me. I don't believe you. | ||
| bear Senior Member Username: bear Post Number: 1052 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 66.227.244.201 |
tatm, I have met P/C ministers who believe and teach what you described in your post at 6:24. I have a question: Why does your ministry habd out bibles to members at P/C chruch's, and why do you receive flack for doing so? | ||
| xman3 New member Username: xman3 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 76.251.218.162 |
Well easeltine. Fair is fair. If you had to sit through one of TATM's teachings, wouldn't you have a hard time not laughing. I would. I crack up here at home with some of his material. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1866 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 66.245.201.195 |
Well, the whole story about "Brother Mike" is just a crack up. There are just too many contradictions in the story itself. | ||
| matt_hatter New member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 8 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
While I may have dropped my charismatic beliefs, I still share fellowship in Christ with many charismatic Christians. If the account above is anywhere near the truth, I find it extremely distasteful and rude to interrupt someone's service with mocking laughter. This guy has a screw loose. Anyone who would do what he said he did, and then tell us that this group of people accepted Bibles from him is not playing with a full deck.  | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 17 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 12.217.146.28 |
Mr. Matt Hatter: My ministry gives away hundreds of Bibles and tracts annually. We also lead many people from the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism annually. So I guess you are right, we do have a screw loose. Jesus said as much many centuries ago. Anyone willing to stand on God's (w)holy Inspired Inerrant Word for the Ages is asking for ridicule from folks like yourself. | ||
| matt_hatter New member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 9 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 216.226.180.3 |
Now he throws the Holy Joe card. Doesn't work with me. Speaking of ridicule, I think Jesus would have been more disgusted with you for going into a church where you had no other motive than to ridicule the pastor and the congregation. A screw loose seems to be the least of your problems. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 20 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 70.221.82.7 |
Mr. Matt_Hatter: Holier than thou?? Are you kidding? Quoting: ". . . I think Jesus would have been more disgusted with you . . . " End quote. Actually Jesus answered the question for us. Ye do err not knowing the scriptures. Had you bothered to read either the passage or the quote, you would have known that. "And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity." Matthew 7:23 (KJV). “And then will I profess unto them, I don’t know you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.” Matthew 7:23. Bro. Mike (AoG). {Not once, but five different times.} I certainly will mock anyone who bastardizes God's (w)Holy Inerrant Inspired Word for the Ages. I will do so to aid folks like yourself who have never read the Bible. Amazingly enough, I am willing to bet my little boy booties that you would be moaning a different tune, if I made the same comment/laugher in a Mormon church or when Jehovah's Witnesses deny the deity of Jesus Christ. Jesus Christ spend his entire earthly ministry dealing with those who perverted the Word of God. I can say factually, Jesus Christ would never be welcome in any pentecostal church. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1873 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.164.43.195 |
That's where you are wrong TATM. The LORD Jesus Christ practiced healing, and miracles. The LORD Jesus would be kicked out of your Cessationist Churches today. | ||
| matt_hatter New member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 10 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 216.226.180.3 |
I would not waste my time going to any religious gathering, no matter what is was, with public ridicule as my main motive. And I am not going to waste any more time with you. There are so many different voices on factnet, yet you have accomplished one thing--unity. Everyone thinks you are nuts. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 24 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 75.201.242.24 |
Mr. Matt_Hatter: Quoting: " . . . public ridicule as my main motive." End quote. If I allowed public ridicule to affect my ministry, we would not be ministering to those caught up in the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism. It is more fun to build hospitals and orphanages than dealing with those caught up in cults. It is also cheaper. Since I have lost one car to a pentecostal preacher's bomb. | ||
| xman3 New member Username: xman3 Post Number: 11 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 76.251.218.162 |
I can say factually, Jesus Christ would never be welcome in any pentecostal church. You must have attended the wrong pentacostal churches. Nothing "factual" about that. More opinion from a man who would personally kick the Holy Spirit out of his own "church" if He did something disagreeable to your religion, all while calling him the devil. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1878 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.164.43.195 |
Get a load of this person: He always has this line: "...(w)Holy Inerrant Inspired Word for the Ages from the pulpit." He mocks the AOG pastor for changing a couple words & then in another Post the same day he writes: "Anyway, everyone living, including theologians of every type, would gloriously agree to drop the book of Mark in its entirety . . . provided!!" Strange? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries New member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 25 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 70.221.202.6 |
Mr. Xman3: Quoting: "He did something disagreeable to your religion, all while calling him the devil." End quote. May I laugh at you? Why is it that anyone who disagrees with your religion's faked infantile gibberish is calling the Holy Spirit/Ghost the devil? | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 26 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 70.221.202.6 |
Mr. Easeltine: Quoting: "He mocks the AOG pastor for changing a couple words" End quote. Actually, I was mocking you for not knowing his changed any words. That is until I told Mr. Hatter. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1879 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.164.43.195 |
TATM, Well, don't you think it a bit weird to says words like, "Inerrant", and then make a comment that the Gospel of Mark should be dropped from the Bible? | ||
| matt_hatter New member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
This guy speaks in riddles and nonsense. Ease, he will not answer your question. There is not one person that he seems to share fellowship with here on factnet. Enough said. Sign of a true cultist. | ||
| easeltine Senior Member Username: easeltine Post Number: 1880 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.164.43.195 |
Matt, I agree. The following phrase he used against you was really uncalled for: "I will do so to aid folks like yourself who have never read the Bible." | ||
| xman3 New member Username: xman3 Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 76.251.218.162 |
May I laugh at you? Why is it that anyone who disagrees with your religion's faked infantile gibberish is calling the Holy Spirit/Ghost the devil? Feel free to laugh, as I already know one reaps what he sows. I am not referring to anyone. I am referring to YOU. You would do this. Not if He walked up and gently introduced Himself as the Holy Spirit of course, but if He manifested in a way that ran contrary to your religion. Maybe you wouldn't call Him the devil to His face, but He wouldn't be around long enough to hear too much after you gave him the left foot of fellowship. | ||
| matt_hatter New member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
Ease, thanks. I am not too concerned about this dude's interpretation of my spiritual state, really. That I can disagree with Xman, or you, and others and still count you as brothers and sisters in Christ is something that he seems not to be able to do. This constant "may I laugh at you?" is just the most arrogant, self righteous bunch of nonsense on factnet. I think it is time to call this guy what he really is, a cultist who shares fellowship with no one who does not believe exactly like he does. The story of him mocking this minister just went too far. Either it is true and therefore full of arrogant pride or a made up lie. Either way, wrong. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 31 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 75.201.196.236 |
Mr. Easeltine: Quoting: "Well, don't you think it a bit weird to says words like, "Inerrant", and then make a comment that the Gospel of Mark should be dropped from the Bible?" End quote. How many times must I repeat myself? I have never and never will say the "BOOK OF MARK SHOULD BE DROPPED FROM THE BIBLE." My friend, those are your words purely!! The longer ending to the Book of Mark (Chapter 16, verses 9 through 20) are not in the better manuscripts. You will find they are missing in at least one version of the NIV, among other Bibles. As to God's (w)Holy Inerrant Inspired Word for the Ages, I am not sure what part you don't get. The Authorized King James Version, the New International Version (various versions), the Revised Standard Version, the American Standard Version, the Contemporary English Version, etc., etc. are not inerrant. All the Bibles you can put your hand on today contain errors. We may say, for the most part, the same for the available manuscripts. As noted in many other discussions on the subject, there are no known "original" manuscripts in existence today. The best we have available are copies of copies of copies, any one of which may contains errors. Read my post one more time. I clearly indicated "the better manuscripts." Do you think there may have been a reason for that? Just to set the record straight, The Ethiopian Bible is the oldest known to man. The Latin Vulgate is the second oldest. The KJV is way down the line. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 32 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 75.201.196.236 |
Mr. Matt_Hatter: I laughed at Mr. Xman3 for one reason and one reason only. Anytime anyone disagrees with his religion's faked infantile gibberish, his religion resorts to some stupid remark aligning the Holy Spirit/Ghost with the devil. I laughed because Mr. Xman3 keeps proclaiming himself free from that religion. Then to defend his faked infantile gibberish, he uses his religion's trademark stupidity. I laugh because he simply forgot which waffle he was eating. Mr. Xman3 knew he was caught between a rock and a hard place. Oh! by the by, I did answer Mr. Easeltine's question in disrequard of your assessment and character assassination. | ||
| matt_hatter New member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 216.226.180.3 |
I would have liked to have attended your sermon on the Red Chinese buying our presidential election. I heard thousands attended. A rat terrier, a tom cat and 11,000 fleas. I cannot even began to imagine the kinds of folks who would want to sit under your 'ministry'.  | ||
| oneway New member Username: oneway Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 69.30.157.124 |
"you are always saying something about pentecostalisim and never about any other denomonation. why? because you were hurt somehow by a pentecostal" arron, why do you insist on asking M(r)(s). TATM the same question over and over? I believe M(r)(s). TATM answered your question a long time ago. A Pentecostal blew up M(r)(s). TATM's car. Don't you remember?. Now think for a second, if it were a Baptist that blew up M(r)(s). TATM's car, don't you think it's highly likely that M(r)(s). TATM would have started up a ministry against Baptists instead of Pentecostals? The question is, which really came first? The ministry against Pentecostalism or the blowing up of the car by a Pentecostal? If M(r)(s). TATM were really concerned about helping Pentecostals, M(r)(s). TATM wouldn't be speaking in riddles and expecting everyone to be able to read M(r)(s). TATM's mind. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 37 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.221.50.12 |
M(r)(s). Oneway: My car was the object of a (Church of) Nazarene preacher. He became belligerent when I quoted John Wesley to him. That was three years after God commanded I take up an apologetics ministry to those caught up in the pseudo-christian cult of pentecostalism. I have also been put in jail for passing out Bibles near a pentecostal church. A pentecostal preacher from Oklahoma started a porno web site using my name, also. To say that I have had pentecostal preachers spit in my face is an understatement. You might note, on the strange side, I have filed several amicus curiae briefs in defense of elite pentecostal ministers accused of gross immorality. Those briefs have helped keep some off death row. and by the by, Mr. Arron is not searching for an answer to his question. Anyone with any common sense will tell you Mr. Arron is praying to get an argument started to take the heat off his religion. He doesn't give two fraps who anyone is, sorry. | ||
| saygoodnightgracie New member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 19 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 96.228.213.249 |
What kind of car was it TATM, and why did he blow it up at a time when you not firmly ensconced in said vehicle? | ||
| saygoodnightgracie New member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 20 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 96.228.213.249 |
What kind of car was it TATM, and why did he blow it up at a time when you not firmly ensconced in said vehicle? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3930 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.121.123 |
tatm... for your information the nazarens religion is not pentecostal. it soes not believe in tongues. they are more like the old time wesleyn methodist church. also you have been askde by more than me the same question whuich you refuse to answer. also do you have definate proof that it was a pentecostal preacher who started a web site with your name on it? i do not believe that. neither do i believe anything you say about the bible period for yu have lied so much and been caught in them. | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3931 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.121.123 |
tatm... for your information the nazarens religion is not pentecostal. it does not believe in tongues. they are more like the old time wesleyn methodist church. also you have been asked by more than me the same question whuich you refuse to answer. also do you have definate proof that it was a pentecostal preacher who started a web site with your name on it? i do not believe that. neither do i believe anything you say about the bible period for yu have lied so much and been caught in them. (Message edited by arron on January 03, 2008) | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3932 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.121.123 |
also tatm why were you watching a porono web site anyway | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3933 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.121.123 |
also tatm why were you watching a porono web site anyway | ||
| hardbones New member Username: hardbones Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 65.93.144.53 |
Good questions. All I can add is saying you have a ministry to pentecostals and treating them the way he does here is a real oxymoron. In other words I think it is all tall tales | ||
| hardbones New member Username: hardbones Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 65.93.144.53 |
Good questions. All I can add is saying you have a ministry to pentecostals and treating them the way he does here is a real oxymoron. In other words I think it is all tall tales | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Junior Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 38 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 70.220.175.214 |
Is this echo central or what? | ||
| arron Senior Member Username: arron Post Number: 3965 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.85.121.123 |
tatm... im sorry for posting twice a couple of times there i didnt think it got on the board that is why i did it. i cant answer for hardbones you will have to ask him about that. but you are wrong about the nazarenes and about you watching a porno site too. you should not watch porno. and i have been in nazarene church, they do not believe in speaking in tongues they are against it they are not pentecostal |
