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ntcctruth
Senior Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 1001
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 70.102.118.90
| | Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 3:29 pm: | 
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MCKEKEL responded to some emails I had sent him asking me this much.
What has he or anyone in the board done to anyone and what families have been wrecked by them?
That question reminded me of Genesis 4:9, when God asked Cain about Abel.
Does anyone want to take a stab at answering this question to Kekel? Obviously, FACTNET is full of answers, but maybe people can post here and tell him directly what harm has been done by NTCC. He's on the web alot and you can bet he'll read what's posted here.
Marc Perez |
ntcctruth
Senior Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 1003
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 70.102.118.90
| | Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 6:02 pm: |
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In other words, Cain's response to God was a denial of knowledge Abel's whereabouts or welfare...which reminds me of Kekel's response to my email to him stating that ministers and members leave in droves because they eventually figure out that NTCC is more of a man's business ambitions than anything else, but unfortunately for some that day comes after their families are wrecked by the borg.
Kekel's response to that email of mine was his question about what he and/or any boardmember has done to me (or anyone else) and what families have been wrecked by any of them.
It's like asking Cain where is Abel...and Cain says "I don't know...why should I know...am I my brother's keeper?"
How do you think God feels toward MCKEKEL and the borg board leadership?
Marc Perez |
mark_g
Advanced Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 571
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.201.122.179
| | Posted on Friday, December 21, 2007 - 6:30 pm: |
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"MCKEKEL responded to some emails I had sent him asking me this much.
What has he or anyone in the board done to anyone and what families have been wrecked by them?"
I would kindly refer him to the "Les Contreras" thread that I started a few months ago, for starters. Of course he did say "On the board". My question to him is, Why the qualifier?
I mean, I gave this Coward every opportunity to talk to me and he chose not to. I believe that if I had asked to talk with MCK that he would of at least been Man enough to have met with me, and we could have reached some kind of common ground. |
ntcctruth
Senior Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 1006
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 74.50.202.54
| | Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 11:44 am: |
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When Kekel asked me what he/the board had ever done to anyone and what families have been wrecked by them, I was reminded of Iran's madman tyrant, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, when he basically said "what holocaust?" I can also picture him (Mahmoud) saying "you people in the West portray me as extreme...I am not extreme...the Zionist regime is extreme...President Bush is extreme...I am not extreme...the Ayatollah is my sword and the Koran is my shield...I am not extreme!!!!!!!!!!!!! "
If you can picture Mahmoud making that statement with a voice similar to Mike Tyson (pipsqueakish voice) with an Iranian accent then it'll be amusing.
Marc Perez |
mark_g
Advanced Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 575
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.201.122.179
| | Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 12:10 pm: |
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I have to at least respect Mike Kekel for the fact that he is concerned enough to even inquire in the first place. I'm not going to, at least at this point ascribe anything bad to the fact that at least he wants to know. I really believe that he is genuinely concerned. I want to believe that. With some it may be morbid curiosity, But I don't believe with him it is. At least I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt at this point and time. |
weezer
New member
Username: weezer
Post Number: 8
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 72.165.55.126
| | Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 4:59 pm: |
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the answer to this can take several avenues. i was thinking about it for awhile and thought of several things.
1. I never understood really what was meant in the spiderman movies of the phrase grandpa was telling Peter.
"With great power comes great responsibility.". Yet, now I understand what he meant.
Rev. Kekel and others have great power, but I don't think have shown great responsibility with it. Mind you, we all are men and no one is perfect. anyways, Rev. Kekel and whomever else need to realize that they could say something and the majority of people will do it. no matter what. Full steam ahead.
I once saw a brother tremoring in fear because he wasn't able to get into a suit for service. I overheard rev. kekel say "what happened to you?" all while he was still trembling.
What does being in a suit have to do with if a person is a christian ? Ok, so he got off work late or there was traffic, big deal. If he were leading a congregation, I don't think they'd quit serving God and be mad at the pastor.
This type of thing is what is done in business environments. But God didn't say to run His church like a business. I never understood quite what derrick was getting at either when he was talking about this, but now I do. Perhaps rev. davis thought using business strategies to operate a church would be great, yet in this case, it turned out to be not so great. Good intentions but terrible results.
According to the movie about Jim Jones, he started out great, really wanting to help people. yet gave in to pressure in trying to do something to help the peoples' faith... you know the rest of the story (the guyana tradgedy). And no, you hyper people, i'm not comparing anyone to jim jones.
It's not so much what is done directly, but alot of the unwritten, underlying rules and behaviors and such that have effected people.
2. If the church (any church) was run to encourage people to follow the Holy Ghosts' direction for their lives, God could do tons more than the man made business type programs that exist.
I remember one rev. i was talking with and i was sharing with him what i believe God wanted me to do and he said "how do you know? Did you let rev. davis know ?"
now what kind of insane thinking is this? Just think of that statement and with alot of people thinking and operating this way, how that will effect their decisions. This actually encompasses a large number of things, perhaps someone else here will know what i'm talking about and can pinpoint it a little more than I did.
If God does ever put me in a pastor type position, i'm going to encourage and help lead others to seek Gods will for their life. Show them how to get to God and remain with God. That's all they need and God will do the rest.
Rules and programs don't help people get / stay saved. it leads them away from Christ, to only follow rules/ programs. They think they have Jesus when they don't have anything.
Prior to getting heavily involved in NTCC, God was there with me every night in my barracks room as I would pray and commune with Him. He showed me so much in the Bible and helped my understanding. He showed my how the scriptures all tie together.
Then trying to please man (which the fear of man brings a snare) by following rules/ programs led me (and many others) away from Christ. Now, it's a big battle and war to just try and get back to where I once was.
leadership, success, has it's place in the business world. It might have a place in christianity. But overall, speaking from experience, if a person is saved and has the Holy Ghost, prays and reads the Bible, God can do thousands upon thousands times more than any program or rules can do. |
weezer
New member
Username: weezer
Post Number: 9
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 72.165.55.126
| | Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 5:03 pm: |
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I don't remember if I heard it from rev. davis or someone else, but that rev. davis said "i'm not changing !"
well what is wrong with praying and asking God if there is something that you might have done wrong ? If there is something that you need to change? instead of being a block head thinking "i'm right! I don't need to pray!" If you're right, then you're right, if there is something that needs to change, then there is something that needs to change.
That shouldn't be too hard of a prayer for any christian to do. |
ctyankee
Intermediate Member
Username: ctyankee
Post Number: 187
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 75.165.117.185
| | Posted on Saturday, December 22, 2007 - 8:36 pm: |
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Weezer,
Very well said. I often thought about this when I was in ntcc. Why does rev. davis have you pray to find out where or what God wants you to do, and then tell you your wrong when you tell him what God put in your heart? For example, if you feel strongly that God wants you to go to Texas, but Davis needs you in Oregon-- he will tell you that you need to "pray again" until it agrees with his (Davis') will for your life. Why even pray? Why not make it easy and just ask Davis where "God" wants you? It seems to me that ntcc fosters an enviroment where everyone isn't looking for God's will in their life, but Davis' will in their life. And when you get to that place, the Holy Ghost isn't needed, because you are following man and not God.
As for business-- Davis does teach alot of business tactics for church leadership. Some of it is fine and some of it isn't. Ethical sales tactics and soul-winning tactics are similiar, but who can say what constitutes "success". In NTCC success is only about numbers. In God's world, success may be going to a town and reaching one person He needed reached. But in NTCC that labels you as a failure, and you will be treated as such when you go back to Graham, Washington. Again, it is following a man's plan and not God's. |
charger
New member
Username: charger
Post Number: 10
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 71.38.28.127
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 12:01 am: |
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A couple of things here. First Weezer, great post. So true about the fear of man.
Second, I was talking to my dad shortly after I graduated Bible college, and I told him I was praying about where God would have me to go. He made the statement that if you pray about anyplace long enough God will give you the go. He said that God had called us to go into all the world.
Third, Ctyankee, I have to disagree with you concerning sucess in NTCC. It really is not about the numbers inspite of what we have all heard and even seen in conference, "Numbers are not everything, they are the only thing."
Really it is all about loyalty. If you are sold out to the MAN, the Org or whatever then you are a success. Think about the men that are considered real success stories in the org. What have they accomplished? What churches did they pioneer and dig out? Where are the large churches and congregations that they built with the Lords help of course?
There are men that have built churches and been successful and they are not proped up or mentioned because they did not go about the way they were taught. They are not Loyal.
As for me and my family, we are leaving because we have policy differences with the org. We have heard that there are things that are policy and there are things that are doctrine. That is Pharisitical. If it is not doctrine it is not a requirement.
According to the org this is disloyalty.
Answering the original question what has Rev. Kekel done? How about this, NOTHING. I do not mean that in a mean way of he has done nothing. I mean he has done nothing to stick up for or defend anyone other than his own.
Case in point. Pastor Davis in Graham preached that fake nails were compromise. Sister Kekel then tore hers off. A short time later they were back on. Did Rev. Kekel come to her defense? When the change came about how come it was never mentioned. Pastor preached from the pulpit that they were compromise. I was there I remeber. I saw Sis. Kekel the next service with them removed. When the change was made why was it not also announced from the pulpit? This all happend when the campus was still closed. I know other sisters that also removed theirs. Not a pleasant experience I am told. Did anyone go to them and say it was ok to wear them and they were not wrong? |
charger
New member
Username: charger
Post Number: 11
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 71.38.28.127
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 12:08 am: |
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Let me also say this. I THINK. Let me say again, I THINK Rev. Kekel is the only one who can stand up to Pastor. I believe he can do this becasue he has two aces up his sleeve. Sis Keke. and Grant.
I do not think Rev. Kekel is some kind of agent of change, but he is different from pastor. I also believe that he was the man that got pastor to change concerning the internet. I think he has more power and sway than anyone else on the board. Of course this is only my opinion. |
imaskingwhy
Member
Username: imaskingwhy
Post Number: 100
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 216.40.83.170
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 3:30 am: |
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"This all happend when the campus was still closed".
What does this mean?
BDH |
charger
New member
Username: charger
Post Number: 15
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 71.38.28.127
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 9:56 am: |
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This was prior to the new chapel when the only people that were allowed to attend the church in Graham were preachers and students.
If you had family in town you could bring them if you had permission.
When the campus was not open to the public the preaching was different. Does anyone disagree with that?
After the campus was opened, Sat. night student services became the night when things would be dealt with, if needed.
Do they have student service anymore? Is it still used as a time to deal with students and ministers?
Do any of you 90's folks remember what I am talking about? |
ntcctruth
Senior Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 1009
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 74.50.202.54
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 12:34 pm: |
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Concerning the 90's, I remember it well, charger.
Also, in response to the account of fake nails, this is an example of MANY added-to-the-Bible rules/doctrines that are preached at NTCC Graham and many of these have flip-flopped. Remember what the Bible says about another gospel? Is it not a curse, along with the one who is preaching it? THAT is the first offense that we can categorize on this thread that DAVIS, MCKEKEL and CO have done to hurt people/families.
What I mean by that is when you start adding stuff to the bible and preaching it as gospel, you are in control of the people receiving it. If you are in control of the people, then you can control their wallets, their time, where they go, where they live, influence them to "go start a church" even when they don't have the money and have a family to support... If husband wants to leave the church and the wife wants to stay (or vice versa), then they can control and influence the relationship of the two and make things hard to the point that it would either force the disloyal (to the church) spouse back to NTCC or instigate a break-up of the marriage. If the latter of the two occurs, then the remaining loyal member can get remarried to another loyal member and then Davis, MCKEKEL & Co has a working couple again. A working couple is very important to Davis, MCKEKEL & Co because they need as many of these as possible to fill pulpits and start churches...soulwin...etc.
Marc Perez |
ctyankee
Intermediate Member
Username: ctyankee
Post Number: 188
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 75.165.117.185
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 12:36 pm: |
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Charger, I was there in the 90's and I remember. I agree with your assessment of loyalty. You're 100% correct-- it's not numbers, it's loyalty. What I don't understand is why my 20+ years of loyalty didn't amount to a hill of beans at the end. I think it's because I have a conscience. |
mklo
Advanced Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 682
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.114.218
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 4:53 pm: |
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"What have any of us done to deserve this?"
I don't accept the sincerity of the question because it implies sincere ignorance on the part of the inquirer.
If he genuinely does not know, it is worse than I thought. |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1439
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 216.67.56.15
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 5:22 pm: |
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"After the campus was opened, Sat. night student services became the night when things would be dealt with, if needed."
And it seems like it was always needed. A week's worth of field-plowing and jacking-up would be distilled into a single service. During that time, I heard some of the most obnoxious and insolent "preaching" imagineable. It was like a dysfunctional family that puts on a wholesome facade for the outside world, but behind closed doors there is continual screaming and yelling from the egomaniacal dad at his cowering wife and children. |
mklo
Advanced Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 683
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.114.218
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 6:19 pm: |
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It's an interesting paradox: the group that is allegedly among God's Elite - that defines itself by its higher standards of "holiness" and the baptism of the Holy Ghost as empowerment to live above sin - is addressed by its leadership as if they are incompetent and untrustworthy and are saddled with endless rules that assume the worst of everyone. The organizational culture of NTCC screams that nobody is trusted.
How can that be?
The law is not made for the righteous, but for sinners; and the rod is for the back of fools. Why then are they necessary among those who are supposed to be the last bastion of "holiness" on earth? Every last one of them speaks in tongues and is thus equipped by God to overcome sin, but they need to be governed and chastised like prisoners.
Something is amiss. |
clearwater
New member
Username: clearwater
Post Number: 23
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 71.227.171.20
| | Posted on Sunday, December 23, 2007 - 6:44 pm: |
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Vic says, "and it seems it was always needed". Your causing belly laughs here.
Mklo, good post. Nearly perfect. |
charger
New member
Username: charger
Post Number: 17
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 71.38.28.127
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 12:01 am: |
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Hey clearwater, I have good information that says I know you. Did you know the Sanchezes pretty well?
If you did and you are who I think you are we were about a semester or two apart. Worked in some of the same shops.
I got my info from another exer.
Maybe there is some way we could contact each other. Once I finally get out of here I may reveal who I am. I am pretty sure it will take some time though. I want to make a clean brake with the org.
What are you up to these days? |
charger
New member
Username: charger
Post Number: 18
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 71.38.28.127
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 12:09 am: |
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I want to add something to this discussion on what Rev. Kekel and Pastor and such have done. I have heard many times from Pastor how he has gone to visit preacher after preacher when they leave and try to work with them etc. How many of you have received that visit, or that call? I know personally a number of preachers that have left over the past year or two who have never received this visit, or even a phone call. |
clearwater
New member
Username: clearwater
Post Number: 24
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 71.227.171.20
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 12:34 am: |
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Charger, you may know me. Tell your source to give you my email address. |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1444
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 216.67.56.15
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 1:17 am: |
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"I know personally a number of preachers that have left over the past year or two who have never received this visit, or even a phone call."
I've heards such legends too, but haven't met one yet who received any indication of concern over their souls when they left. Mike Kekel has been quoted on this forum as stating that he regards everyone who has left as an enemy. That seems to be the leadership's prevailing attitude, and they do their best to treat anyone who departs as such.
When I told RW in person that I was leaving, I guess I naively expected he would at least want to know why and discuss it, since I had invested sixteen years of sweat and toil (plus plenty of money) in his org over that period. Instead, I got hostility and a 'good riddance' attitude. It felt like being punched in the gut, but being disabused of one's illusions is always a positive thing.
CTYankee was the only one to reach out as a friend afterward. That still means a lot to me and I'll never forget it. |
ctyankee
Intermediate Member
Username: ctyankee
Post Number: 190
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 75.165.117.185
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 11:08 am: |
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Yes, and CTYankee got narced on by another brother, and quickly jacked-up from the pulpit by RW for talking to the "enemy". It was a sad time. |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 1956
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.196.218.104
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 2:31 pm: |
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"What have I or anyone in the board done to anyone and what families have been wrecked by them?" Kekel (As Reported)
Nothing. Absolutely nothing. We're just a bunch of disgruntled failing compromising rejects who then had nothing better to do in life than to turn around and viciously attack God's man and men (and women) (and children) (and dogs) (but NO cats!) (and buildings and homes and cars and neighborhoods and even the board chairs for Lord's sake!) |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1445
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 66.223.233.130
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 2:31 pm: |
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"It was a sad time."
Here's to happier times--post NTCC. Cheers! |
ntcctruth
Senior Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 1010
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 70.102.118.90
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 3:00 pm: |
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Dr. Vic,
I can relate to ctyankee's experience. I got jacked up from the pulpit for doing the same thing for another good preacher who had left.
I was glad to be in contact with you for the remaining few years I had at NTCC...seeing you at SeaTac, etc.
We know of mothers in NTCC who won't talk to their children and/or grandchildren who are out of NTCC and when they do, it's always ruined with the sentiment of the loyalist giving a hard time to their family members.
I remember how I had kept distance from relatives because of their non-attendance to NTCC. I know of many couples who had split up over loyalty to borg...and the list goes on and on and on and on...
Marc Perez |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1447
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 216.67.56.15
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 6:50 pm: |
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"I can relate to ctyankee's experience."
I can relate too. My closest friend left about a year before I did, but I wouldn't cut him off. RW got wind of it and the grenades started to fly from the pulpit (although in typical NTCC fashion, nothing was ever said to my face). From that point on, there was a concerted (and ultimately successful) campaign to run me off. My only regret is that I didn't leave sooner. One thing that hindered me was that Doug Allen was renting my house up here from me, and I didn't want to make any waves or cause distress to him. But when RW wants to run you off, he will run you off. The thing that was baffling to me was that at no time was I approached personally; it was all code preaching and guilt tripping. A very underhanded and slimy way to treat another human being. |
mklo
Advanced Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 684
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.114.218
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 10:02 pm: |
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quote:... The thing that was baffling to me was that at no time was I approached personally; it was all code preaching and guilt tripping. A very underhanded and slimy way to treat another human being.
I don't think he has the guts. Davis is intuitive when it comes to manipulating people with group psychology; he knows how to choose his moments. Usually that means waiting until he is in the safety of his pulpit, or in some group setting when he has a bunch of loyalists around. He will turn the opinion of the group against the individual - or threaten to do so with code - and the psychological pressure upon the target is intense. (This is called PUBLIC HUMILIATION and is a staple tactic of cult groups.)
Like most bullies, however, he is a weakling one-on-one and is too shrewd to allow that situation to happen.
Davis does not know how to deal with people other than from a position of authority. Try talking to him like a peer, calling his bluff or telling him when he is wrong. He will come unglued in a flat second. (I know this by direct experience.) If this happens in a public setting, he will raise his voice to let everyone around know that you have crossed a line. Even if they didn't hear what was being said, they will know - and the target of his wrath will know that they know - that he has been marked.
In a one-on-one setting in which he cannot command the power of a group-mind that assumes his authority and righteousness, he is an empty suit and will exit that situation as promptly as possible.
Jim Ashmore, who got me into NTCC, was in my town within a couple of weeks of my leaving. He either didn't care enough to talk to me and get my perspective, or he was forbidden to do so. I want to think that it was the latter, but I guess I'll never know.
You will find out much how much these people LOVE you if you ever decide to follow your own conscience in a direction that Davis has not set for you. |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1448
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 216.67.56.15
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 2:57 am: |
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"Like most bullies, however, he is a weakling one-on-one and is too shrewd to allow that situation to happen."
This is true. After I left, I wrote him a letter when I found out that the work in Panama, for which I continued to send in a monthly pledge I had made in the past, had been closed for sime time. So I confronted him about it and invited him to call me to discuss it if I had my facts wrong (I didn't). He did call, and the first thing he said to me was that he had Olson and DiFrancesco with him on a speakerphone. I believe that maneuver was designed to intimidate me (it didn't). Of course he had an excuse for the apparent misappropriation of funds, and alleged that it was being escrowed against the day that it reopened. Of course there was no way to verify that, because of the secrecy surrounding NTCC's finances, so I guess I was supposed to take it on faith (difficult to do under the circumstances). The work subsequently did reopen; I hope that the money I sent got to its intended destination, but from all indications, the support disbursed to NTCC foreign workers is only a fraction of what has been raised.
Maybe the rest is being 'escrowed' in mansions and Cadillacs. |
rls
Member
Username: rls
Post Number: 58
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 206.138.130.2
| | Posted on Tuesday, December 25, 2007 - 5:15 am: |
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I will say this, I am glad not to be in that cult. I haven't been for a long time, of course.
The last time I ran into any of the cult members was in Killeen. Yes, Davis had his group setting over at the local Denny's. I seem to remember something to the effect that he was praying for me, in front of the group. I of course responded, but not in the way he anticipated. I said to him in front of his group, "I am praying for you, also." It took him completely off of his guard. I don't think to this day he could figure out for what I was praying for. His errors in doctrine had a lot to do with it. How he treated those underneath him had also something to do with it. But, for the "enemy" to be praying for him was a surprise? LOL. |
mark_g
Advanced Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 576
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.201.122.179
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:16 am: |
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"I continued to send in a monthly pledge I had made in the past, had been closed for some time. So I confronted him about it"
I guess it just goes to show you that when it comes to money that NTCC has no shame about taking it even if it's from someone who was "ran off" and is no longer a part of their "Club"....er.....I mean Church. sorry. |
rls
Member
Username: rls
Post Number: 60
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 65.28.108.137
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 3:47 am: |
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They will take money from anyone, even if it's from one of "their enemies".
The hypocrisy never ceases to amaze me. |
ctyankee
Intermediate Member
Username: ctyankee
Post Number: 196
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 75.165.117.185
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:20 pm: |
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Vic,
Tell everyone how you left $10,000 in the bank for the next pastor in Alaska, and how Davis grabbed it and took it out-- so that the next pastor and his family had to struggle financially. |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1450
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 216.67.56.15
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 12:30 pm: |
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"Tell everyone how you left $10,000 in the bank for the next pastor in Alaska, and how Davis grabbed it and took it out-- so that the next pastor and his family had to struggle financially."
Well, it was actually a building fund, so the new pastor wouldn't have been able to use it for anything else, but the interesting thing is that he was never even told about its existence. RW stated to me that the money would be restored "when the time was right," but apparently that time never arrived. Who knows what they did with the money, but it never was used for what the donors intended. The new pastor was renting my house up here for a very good price, since I wanted to be a blessing to him and all, but after we left he was directed to move out as soon as possible. We rented the place out the next day for $175 more per month, and he had to find a less suitable and more expensive location. |
doug_allen
Intermediate Member
Username: doug_allen
Post Number: 235
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 68.230.216.36
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 2:26 pm: |
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Vic, the place on 589 Mad Russian Street was a blessing and thanks for the great rent of 675, but we did find a really nice location down on 1427 Ash Street. And yes, the rent was 1200 but it had five bedrooms and we could have a designated space that seated like 50 for church so it wasn't too bad. One time we had 7 soldiers living full time there, but I regret the tactics we used in the 'servicemen's work.' I remember how that a brother missed one 'soulwinning' meeting because of a unit party. I had him in tears begging for forgiveness and pledging he would never miss another.
Even though that is not my style it was what was expected from the top down. No one living in the home could miss any function unless he was in the field or duty. It is really a sick mindset and I apologize to all those for whom I inflicted the emotional pain. I am so happy that Chris and Bobbi Fears have finally escaped. |
ntcctruth
Senior Member
Username: ntcctruth
Post Number: 1011
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 70.102.118.90
| | Posted on Wednesday, December 26, 2007 - 3:59 pm: |
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"Even though that is not my style it was what was expected from the top down. No one living in the home could miss any function unless he was in the field or duty. It is really a sick mindset and I apologize to all those for whom I inflicted the emotional pain."
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We were made to be that way because we were building THE right church for THE Highest Apostle living on earth...closest to Jesus Christ...called of God to keep the standard and lead people out of compromise. Yet you had to be governed by rules for fellowship and almost every aspect of your life in order to save you from sending yourself to hell...even though we're supposed to be God's "Special Forces" preachers and Christians...full of the Holy Ghost...full of Davis's teachings...
I'm so glad we're out of that nut job of a place. I've found that the longer you're out, the nuttier it looks. It's a wonder how our parents suffered us through the period of time that we were "in." We must have kept them awake at night from time to time.
Good to see you on here, Doug.
Marc Perez |
chris_fears
New member
Username: chris_fears
Post Number: 2
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 96.230.203.48
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 12:49 am: |
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To vic and doug concerning Wed Dec 26:
Holy mad russian batman!! I was up there and saw the sacrifice Doug and Janet made for us. They lived in a closet and slept in a 2x4 bunk. And you're telling me the money was there?!!!?? Wait. This sounds familiar. Did not other "escro" monies not make it to their respective works in FLA? PLEEEESE correct me if I am wrong. |
victorjohanson
Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 64
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 66.230.101.251
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 3:12 am: |
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All I know is we raised about 10K for Fairbanks, and when Doug was sent here, no one advised him of the existence of these funds, which had already been redirected elsewhere. I believe Doug forked over a big "escrow" payment in Florida; wonder if it got 'zeroed out,' if that's really how it goes. A legitimate escrow account would also return interest income, which I never heard of in NTCC. Interest? It was hard enough just to get the pricipal. |
nbrown
New member
Username: nbrown
Post Number: 22
Registered: 11-2006
Posted From: 71.39.121.221
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 8:31 am: |
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Ok, I have this insomnia thing going on... so here I am.
I just want to say it's really good to hear from the Fears. How is that wild baby girl of yours? I think I remember her at 4 mo sitting in a high chair eating a burrito at a taco del mar soul winners lunch.
Take care you guys! |
tracypelfrey
Member
Username: tracypelfrey
Post Number: 55
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 76.211.1.87
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 9:11 am: |
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Chris...congratulations to you and your wife...and your daughter.
I related the story on this forum (not using your name) of how Kekel treated you and your wife one Saturday morning in Graham at the "Soul Winning Meeting" (he sure wasn't trying to win your soul over).
I'm sure you remember...when your wife stood up to say she needed a partner...and Kekel couldn't understand that...because you were sitting right there. He then put you on the spot by asking why you couldn't go.
You let him know that you had to fix the car.
It's the only crazy day any of the men really have to fix or take care of anything. He is able to go back home and take care of his stuff...or others do it for him...but he wouldn't afford you the same luxury.
It wasn't like when you and your wife were just a 'couple'and you needed to catch a ride with somone...now you were a 'family'. It's a big deal, as many of us know...to ask of others a ride to church and back...when you are hauling a monster of a car seat around with you!!!
Why couldn't Kekel think that way? Why couldn't he be normal about it?
You mean, God would really take offense and question your devotion to him...if you tried...as the man of the family and the caretaker and protector...to FIX YOUR CAR!!!!???
I don't think so...and I didn't think so at the time...and I STILL don't think so.
I hope you went home anyway and fixed your car that day Chris. I really do.
It is just another "incident" which plagues the mind while you are in...and when added to all of the other "incidents"...the sum is ONE BIG BAG INCIDENT.
That man stood up there at the podium and questioned your service to God that morning. Your wife's face turned a bright shade of red...and all of it was totally unnecessary.
Good for your little family on your departure. I pray you are doing well and that you prosper and that you realize good health.
Tracy Pelfrey |
polaris
Intermediate Member
Username: polaris
Post Number: 186
Registered: 7-2005
Posted From: 12.74.210.236
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 12:22 pm: |
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"that man stood up there at the podium and questioned your service to God that morning. Your wife turned a bright shade of red...and all of it was totally unnecessary."
so THATS where denis learned to humiliate people and make them doubt their standing with God. he did stuff like this at almost EVERY soulwinning meeting. (and I am refering to his time in ntcc) you would not believe the stuff he "aired" out concerning the soulwinners, all under the guise of "we need to be right". I mean private stuff that should have stayed between the individual and the so called pastor. so to all the people who say that hq didn't know what denis did, this is an example of what denis emulated. |
chris_fears
New member
Username: chris_fears
Post Number: 3
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 96.230.206.254
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 6:20 pm: |
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Greetings to Tracy and nichole! Baby girl is not a baby anymore she is three this last Sept. Now the baby in the family is our boy Aaron. He is the crazy one. Or is it me? No, Lydia is still crazy. We think she will be a lawyer. Hope not.
Wow, what a memory Tracy. I had really just forgotten the whole thing. Did not really mean a lot to me then or now for that matter. But it did affect Bobbi. I really did not take it that way. I guess when you gotta do what you gotta do, it does not matter what people do or say. I knew and do know my relationship w/ God is independent of other peoples' opinions. Bible taught me that much. I did fix the car. Not sorry.
I tried posting last night before this particular one and for some reason it did not take. Kind of our "coming out" posting. I'll try again. |
tracypelfrey
Member
Username: tracypelfrey
Post Number: 73
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 76.211.1.87
| | Posted on Saturday, January 12, 2008 - 6:47 pm: |
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Chris...
...a word to the wise...your baby girl will never stop being your baby. Trust me on that.
My girls baulk sometimes when I grab them in my lap and rock them...but...they stop resisting after a bit and they enjoy it.
A boy AND a girl? that poor younger brother...I guess he'll be twice-mothered.
I'm so thrilled that you fixed your car. What was it...??? Like a blue...older model mercedes or something chic like that?
I'm really thrilled for your family Chris.
Tracy |
chris_fears
New member
Username: chris_fears
Post Number: 7
Registered: 1-2008
Posted From: 96.230.201.75
| | Posted on Sunday, January 13, 2008 - 10:06 pm: |
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you could say older model. 72. Couldn't afford anything else. That was an upgrade from the honda someone gave us. Sold it and saw it on the side of 167 later. Now I drive an 06 buick rendezvous. Courtesy of God blessin. |