| Author | Message | ||
     Rita Bryant |
There is very little information on this group called "A True Church". The pastor is Darwin Fish and they are located outside of Bakersfield, California. There is a huge concern in our minds that this group is advocating physical discipline of children as young as 7 months old. We have a family member who is involved with this small group and this incident with the child just happened last night. Does anyone have info that could help? We have read this group's website and are sure they have cultic attitudes. | ||
| Anonymous |
DARWIN FISH regularly labels well-known Christian leaders "false teachers" and publishes diatribes against them. He emblazons a long list of men he despises on practically everything he touches—his Web site, his car, and even his followers. Darwin clearly does not believe anyone but Darwin Fish is faithfully teaching the truth of God's Word. In one of his early replies to this FAQ, Darwin claimed that is "simply a bold-faced lie." But Darwin's own FAQ now concedes the point. He admits he cannot name one other Christian leader outside his own little band of followers—anyone who has lived in the two millennia between the death of the last apostle and the advent of Darwin Fish—who has remained faithful to the truth. Darwin is apparently in the process of changing the name of his group from "God's Word Fellowship" to "a true church"—employing the indefinite pronoun to obscure a disturbing fact: Darwin and his followers cannot identify any other "true church"—not a single one—in nineteen hundred years of church history! (Well, there may have been "a church in Murfreesboro, TN, but that has since dissolved.") As far as the Fishites know, the light of truth has been utterly obscured in Christendom ever since the apostles died off, until the sun finally dawned again on their leader—Darwin Fish. Darwin was not always such a strict loner. At one point Darwin was a follower of Rick Miesel, a similarly-obsessed exposer of well-known evangelicals. But the two of them split over the question of whether Martin and Deidre Bobgan are hell-bound heretics. (Fish said yes; Miesel balked. So Fish now declares Miesel a false teacher, too.) The rest of the article is at http://www.gty.org/~phil/articles/dfishfaq.htm | ||
| Anonymous |
What is the Agenda of GWF? (A Reply To Darwin's Article titled "Identifying False Teachers") The "ministry" trademark of Darwin Fish and GWF is condemning who they believe to be "false teachers" and "false Christian movements". Their most common approach is through picketing at churches and evangelical events, which they do very pridefully and self righteously (if you've ever witnessed it, you would know what I mean). Don't get me wrong, I am not against exposing false teachers and protesting against them, but you better be right about the teacher being false, and you better have some back up to the cause, which they fall short. There arguments against those they hate are generally petty and often not doctrinal. Their other common approach to condemning other teachers is through a series of articles on their own website. Through these avenues, Darwin protests every teacher he is aware of including teachers of past generations as well as the present. The list of teachers that Darwin and GWF hates is so long that even they can't get every teacher and movement that they despise on there own website. In general, name any teacher living between the apostolic times until now (other than Darwin Fish) and they will label him a "wolf damned to hell". The only teacher Darwin and GWF members will endorse is Darwin Fish. This is clear in context of a statement by Al Soto (the oldest of Darwin's Followers and maintainer of the GWF Website). Al stated, "But it is admitted and well understood (as of this date) that Darwin has not found any other like minded "pastor". This has been to his great disappointment and sorrow "(see Reply To Jeff Simmons, GWF website). With such an exclusive claim, one must ask, what is it that defines (By Darwin's standards) someone as a false teacher? And, if Darwin is the only one, what does he know that others don't? On there article titled "Identifying False Teachers", Darwin lists seven "characteristics" that define someone as a "false teacher" (at least by his standards). We will use the text of this article to examine their article. (From here forward every quote (on this article) by Darwin or members of GWF will be taken from "Identifying False teachers" on the GWF website unless otherwise noted.) These Characteristics are 1) Popularity 2) Silence (about false teachers) 3) Covetousness 4) Traditions 5) Worldly Wisdom 6) Lewdness 7) False Teachings (false doctrine) Darwin believes that if you are guilty of just ONE of these you are a false teacher and hell bound. To be honest with you, I can't think of one teacher myself who doesn't have at least one of these "characteristics" (including the apostles, at least on #1). The fact is, Darwin is no exception. He is guilty of FOUR of these seven which I will explain throughout this article: You can read the rest at http://www.whatisgwf.com/agenda.html | ||
| NoDeceit |
To hear from the source please visit a true church at http://www.atruechurch.info/ or call 800-HOW-TRUE | ||
| Rita Bryant |
I have heard from the source...my son. He was snagged by this group, (he was only 19) and has since abandoned his wife and baby for the sake of "truth". Darwin Fish's truth, that is. Yes, I have been to this website, read everything on it, plus I've had the "privilege" to listen to a handful of tapes. This group has a mean, hateful attitude and I've heard from my son that they all are quite proud of that fact. During my research into this group, I've made contact with former members and some of their family. They all affirm the observations I've had. This group is extremely judgemental and seem to rejoice in the fact that one day they will get to see the unsaved burning in hell. They will be able to see their families in utter torture and they will laugh. This group serves a hate-filled god. Because man will treat others like the god they serve, they thrive on hateful attitudes and send most of the world to hell. Since my son joined this group, he has put everyone of his family, everyone of his friends, and everyone that knows anyone....in hell. It's so amazing to me that in this world, in this state, in this city...no one knows the truth except this group. My son practices what he calls being "cunning as a serpent". This is being deceitful without actually telling a lie. I've witnessed this vile behavior a few times; his wife didn't know when to believe him. Because his wife has refused to go with him to this group, he has been able to justify leaving her. She has been called by him and by other men in this group names like; evil, wicked, whore, hater of God, hater of truth...My son has informed me that one of many reasons why I'm going to hell is because I teach young children about God and the bible. He shoots scripture at you like bullets; he's getting better at that technique. Guess they give him alot of practice. I/we love our son very much. We realize he is being fooled and we know he truly desires to follow real truth. This isn't it. Let this serve as a warning to anyone who may come across this group. Do not try and engage them in a debate about God or His Word. They live for the "hunt and kill" and go back with joyous stories of the events. Another notch in their belts! They delight in the attention they receive when they wave their signs, inform people passing by that they are on the way to hell, when security tries to have them move and they can throw up the "free speach" mantra, when the police tell them to stay on the sidewalk... you get the picture. We are saddened by this situation but we know that God is doing His work and we can rest in His promise that NOthing can separate us from the love of God. | ||
| Casey Bryant |
This is the son. Like most people in this deceived world my mother (Rita Bryant) and father (Mike Bryant) have fallen for the lie that the bible is not true, exemplified by the fact that they refuse to submit to God and His word. Although they claim to be "Christian" they are caught in the snare of the devil (1 John 5:19) and cannot see the Truth, for God has blinded their eyes. John 12:37-40. But although He had done so many signs before them, they did not believe in Him, that the word of Isaiah the prophet might be fulfilled, which he spoke: "Lord, who has believed our report? And to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? Therefore they could not believe, because Isaiah said again: "He has blinded their eyes and hardened their hearts, lest they should see with their eyes, lest they should understand with their hearts and turn, so that I should heal them." The Lord commands to judge with righteous judgment, John 7:24 "Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." Also true believers WILL rejoice in the destruction of the wicked, Ps.58:10 "The righteous shall rejoice when he sees the vengeance; He shall wash his feet in the blood of the wicked." My goal is to just touch on some of the lies that my mother has proclaimed about the truth. There are others in her writing, but I will cover those for anyone interested. Send to me at caseyb@atruechurch.info. Therefore you should see that they (my mother and father)do not believe or abide in the doctrine of Christ, the Bible, and according to 2 John 9 they don't have God. If you read our site and match it with the bible you should see the truth and the love of God. People, do not be as so many on their way to hell. Abide in His Word, keep His commands, fear the Lord and live forever. | ||
| No Deceit |
She talks about love, but both her and her hubsand have refused to sit down with their son and show him where he was wrong. He begged his parents to correct them, and they refused. Is this love? True love corrects, rebukes etc (Proverbs 27:5-6, 2 Tim 2:24). It is also a lie that he has left his wife. His wife is unwilling to live with him, and Scripture calls us to peace and so we give them what they want. God hates divorce. Casey did not make it a condition for her to come to our church, in fact we would not want her to be there unless of course she repented and took heed to the truth. The truth is she refused to move to Bakersfield with him. Why? Because she is stubborn and refuses to submit to her husband as Scripture calls her to. On Hate: God hates, and we hate the same things God does. We hate the ungoldy and love them as well. We hate in a godly manner as Christ commands us to do (Luke 14:26). We hate as David hated: "Do I not HATE them, O Lord, who HATE You? And do I not loathe those who rise up against You? I HATE them with PERFECT HATRED; I count them my enemies." Psalm 139:21-22 Do I hate Casey's parents. Yes, because they hate God and they hate God's truth. Do I love them, yes, as my enemies and would hope for their salvation. Does this OFFEND you? No doubt it will, because Christ is called the Rock of offense and His truth offends. No appologies to be made. We have never said we are the only church with the truth. Please Mam, quote this for us. If you can't it is called slander. She tells you not to debate with us about the Bible. This is ungodly advice, the Bible teaches us to cast down every argument (2 Cor 10:3-6), and correct those who are in opposition (2 Tim 2:24f). Why? Because of love. She has no love. No love for us, nor for her child. She is the one who hates, hates in an ungodly manner, hatred that will send her to hell. Yes we rejoice in the work of God-even His work of sending people to hell. His judgement is just, and we rejoice in His judgment. And we weep for the lost. In His love, al soto | ||
| GuestAce |
Two points... Both of them have to do with the general attitude of the poster - Casey Bryant. It is absolutely true that the man is the head of the house has Christ is the head of the church. It is a wonderful truth that places the members of the Body of Christ in proper proportion and relation to one another. But one thing that goes along with that is that the husband is to lay down his life for his wife, as Christ did for the church. The typical man-head situation that one finds in evangelical circles and smaller groups (such as this church Casey belongs to) places no responsibility on the man to live with his wife peacefully, but to be a dictator as he sees fit. This is NOT Christ-like and claiming "I am right and you are wrong" and going on crusades are more of the same unChristlike behaviour. That leads to my second point. I would be VERY careful about how you speak of casting down every argument. Paul speaks about casting down THOUGHTS AND IMAGINATIONS that exalt themselves against the knowledge of Christ. He is talking about everything within a man that rises up in contrast to Christ. These refer to self-discipline, not seeking false-teachers. The fact that you have taken this to yourself and applied it to seeking out false teachers has the very implication that you are the true teachers. An attitude which is arrogant in its fleshliness. Finally, your focus on judgment is VERY troubling: " For if we sin wilfully after that we have received the knowledge of the truth, there remaineth no more sacrifice for sins, But a certain fearful looking for of judgment and fiery indignation, which shall devour the adversaries." Hebrews 10:26,27 The mother appears to be truly concerned, whatever her mistakes in childrearing may have been. The son needs to forgive, not add to sins. | ||
| No Deceit |
Ephesians 5 11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. Romans 16 17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus[1] Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. I believe the above verses state plainly how we are to deal with false teachers and false teaching. I hope the writer of the last post is not propagating that we stick our head in the sand and allow the false teachers to do as they please. Question: What does Hebrews 10:26-17 have to do with "being judgmental"? You state, "The typical man-head situation that one finds in evangelical circles and smaller groups (such as this church Casey belongs to) places no responsibility on the man to live with his wife peacefully, but to be a dictator as he sees fit." Sir/Mam you have passed judgment upon this situation without having heard both sides of the story, without asking the husband for his view. This is folly for you. Proverbs 18 13He who answers a matter before he hears it, It is folly and shame to him. You have slandered a godly man. You do not know how he has loved his wife, how for months he has dealt with her in a understanding manner and how his wife agreed to move with him and at the last minute on moving day stiffened her neck and refused to go along. Why? Because he is a jerk, and overbearing? No, because she hates the truth the light and the people of light. Casey does not wish for his prayers to be hindered so he takes this situation very seriously. 1 Peter 3 7 Husbands, likewise, dwell with them with understanding, giving honor to the wife, as to the weaker vessel, and as being heirs together of the grace of life, that your prayers may not be hindered His wife attested that Casey has lived the above verses out. But you know, it does not matter what I say, why don't you ask him yourself. You state: "The mother appears to be truly concerned, whatever her mistakes in childrearing may have been. The son needs to forgive, not add to sins." His son has nothing to forgive (it's been done), it is God whose forgivness she needs to ask for. In His love, al soto | ||
| GuestAce |
You are using verses that speak of exposing those who lead others astray, not of a husband and wife situation, nor of a son's relationship to his parents. After all, causing divisions often requires two sides. Casey Bryant has cast allegations at his mother, but not backed them up, only saying she denies the bible. Heaping judgement on her, as well as himself. It is evidence of a seared conscience. Another characteristic of both yours and his posts is that they carry a spirit of 'we are right, you are wrong' - one which the letter of the post denies, but (as I said) the spirit upholds. You (both) have avoided specifics, but voiced generalities which cast aspursions on Casey's mother. As regarding the so-called slander, you will notice I worded that very carefully. Only one who was looking for someone to clash with would have read that as slander. I was referring to the typical situation. Yes, a generalization, but all that was said strongly indicates that there is little difference here. Can you show how this to be untrue? Both yours and Casey's posts indicate a desire to be persecuted. Show me I'm wrong. Show others that they are wrong. Finally, regarding the verse in Hebrews, those who are inclined to judgement are that way, most often because they themselves have heaped to themselves judgement. Have you ever heard that the one who preaches loudest against X is either most guilty of X or pre-disposed to X. The more judgement one metes out, the more judgement that one is under. The old mote and log in various eyes. Don't forget that the letter kills - only the spirit gives life. And the spirit of both your posts is not life-giving. Have you not heard that to believers is given the message of reconciliation? This is not a spirit of reconciliation I am seeing. | ||
| No Deceit |
"The typical man-head situation that one finds in evangelical circles and smaller groups (such as this church Casey belongs to) places no responsibility on the man to live with his wife peacefully, but to be a dictator as he sees fit." Sir, your statement above would indicate you passed judgment upon us. If this is not what you meant, then you could clarify this instead of accusing us of sin. I believe you language is clear, but I will give you the benifit of the doubt. "Only one who was looking for someone to clash with would have read that as slander." Are you willing to stand on that statement as gospel truth, or perhaps could it be that you are the one who did not make himself clear? We do believe we are right, because we are following the right way, the right MAN (Jesus Christ) and God. If you condemn this attidude you then condmen the writer of 1 John: 1 John 4 6We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. Your argument in one built upon sand and not the rock that Christ is. Our confidance is in Him and we fight for the faith from that perspective. Does that mean we are not open to correction, on the contrary, we are alway desiring it. .. let the righteous strike me (Psalm 141:5)! I take it you failed to see the order of the posts. Casey responded to slander from her mother and choose to deal with people on a one on one basis via email instead via this message board. You are missing the obvious. I fear for your soul, for your lack of discernment, that is a indication of not having the Spirit of truth (Romans 1:31)nor salvation. Hebrews 10:26 was used out of context. Yes, the letter kills, but no one on this board has been promoting the law, but we are contending for the faith. Reconcilation: The door is always open for Casey's parents to call. The ball is in their court. Actually, Casey called his mother not too long ago and attempted to speak with her on these issues, she refused to do so. You can not get blood out of a turnip. In His love, al soto PS. I would suggest you visit our web site to know what we believe http://www.atruechurch.info | ||
| GuestAce |
Once, and finally, I said that the typical group was that way. I did not ever say that was the way your group was. However, based on the attitude evident in the post - defensive and focused on the fate of the wicked - I was certainly leaning towards the conclusion that this situation was no different. But not knowing, I can only say that I have known this type of group, and the attitude and situation fits it perfectly. The defensive response only serves to strengthen my hunch. At the risk of being repetetive, your posts do not point to Christ, but focus more on you and on judgement. Begging your pardon, but that is right in line with Hebrews 10:26. A seared conscience either judges itself or it judges others. I have been to the church's site, and it is like many others I have seen. The main thrust of it is to show how other men have been wrong. There's nothing wrong with exposing lies. There was a church commended for it in Revelation. However, there is a difference between looking for error and determining it when it is met. This site is no different because it revels in the error of other men. To that end, I wouldn't touch it with a ten foot pole. Jesus addressed this when He spoke of dealing with the log in your own eye before seeing to remove the speck from your brother's eye. And once that log is removed from your own eye, it will be evident to others that this is the case in that your attitude towards those decieved/in sin will be markedly different. Instead, you proclaim only wrath and error and fear. There are some who require to be plucked from wrath by fear, but perfect love casts that out, it doesn't cause it. The sensationalistic nature of the site appeals to that side of man that LOVES gossip. Again... log and speck. While I do not know you personally, I can say without hesitation, that the attitude that comes across in your posts will not draw men to Christ, only to you. You use songs and verses that were prophesied in great distress, by men who had longings that only the pure in heart can have. These longings were found in Paul as well, and the missionary to the gentiles said that he would rather be cut off/accursed than to see his fellow Jews be visited by the wrath of God. Never does he glory in the wrath that is coming. One who has been touched by Christ has a heart for His lost sheep, not a desire to see vengeance. Yet you stand ready to clash. Why? I stand by that contention. You seem more ready to condemn, to judge, to find fault and glory in the destruction of the wicked than you do to lead men to Christ. Finally, as for the letter, it is more than just the Mosaic Law, but it is the reliance in things external. In the superficial. In the written word instead of the truth behind it. Actually, there is one more thing. Why do I need to go to a website to know what YOU believe? | ||
| No Deceit |
John 7 24Do not judge according to appearance, but judge with righteous judgment." 1 Corinthians 5: 9 I wrote to you in my epistle not to keep company with sexually immoral people. 10Yet I certainly did not mean with the sexually immoral people of this world, or with the covetous, or extortioners, or idolaters, since then you would need to go out of the world. 11But now I have written to you not to keep company with anyone named a brother, who is sexually immoral, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or an extortioner--not even to eat with such a person. 12For what have I to do with judging those also who are outside? Do you not judge those who are inside? 13But those who are outside God judges. Therefore "put away from yourselves the evil person." This is what God teaches, what you teach is, "A seared conscience either judges itself or it judges others." Christ tells us to judge, with righteous judgment. You sir are against the word of God and are propagating lies. Hebrews 10:26 is talking about someone who sins willfully after being "saved" and this person has a fearful expection judgment because of his rejection of the truth. It says nothing about someone who is judgmental. You sir, have added to the word of God. This is also sin. Most of your statements are unsupported by Scripture. For example this statement: "And once that log is removed from your own eye, it will be evident to others that this is the case in that your attitude towards those decieved/in sin will be markedly different." Where does Christ say that this will be evident to others? He teaching us how to judge with rightoues judgment. Don't be a hypocrite and tell a drunkard to stop drinking if you are a drunkard yourself. Paul clarifies this point- Romans 2: 1 Therefore you are inexcusable, O man, whoever you are who judge, for in whatever you judge another you condemn yourself; for you who judge practice the same things. 2But we know that the judgment of God is according to truth against those who practice such things. 3And do you think this, O man, you who judge those practicing such things, and doing the same, that you will escape the judgment of God? This not saying that because we are all sinners we can never judge or that we must wait until we are perfect and sinless (although we have been perfected in Christ) No Christ commands us to judge without hypocrisy. Get your life in order, repent, turn to to Christ, walk in the Spirit, have a lifestyle of righteousness and then you can judge righteoussly by the Word of God (1 John 3:4f, 1 Cor 5:1f, Eph 5:11, John 7:23, 1 Cor 2:15). You state: "Never does he glory in the wrath that is coming. One who has been touched by Christ has a heart for His lost sheep, not a desire to see vengeance." When did we ever state we want God's sheep to perish? I think you are putting this in the context of all man kind and in that context Paul stated this: 1 Corinthians 16 22If anyone does not love the Lord Jesus Christ, let him be accursed. O Lord, come!" In other words let them go to hell. Yes, we weep for the lost, but for the righteous there is also a desire for vengance and justice and yes we loook forward to the Day of the Lord, the Day of Wrath Revelation 6 10And they cried with a loud voice, saying, "How long, O Lord, holy and true, until You judge and avenge our blood on those who dwell on the earth?" and David prayed for specifically for vengance: Psalm 55 14We took sweet counsel together, And walked to the house of God in the throng. 15Let death seize them; Let them go down alive into hell, For wickedness is in their dwellings and among them. 16As for me, I will call upon God, And the LORD shall save me. You sir, are bring another gospel and you are to be accurssed! Repent from the lies you are bringing. This statement, "Finally, as for the letter, it is more than just the Mosaic Law, but it is the reliance in things external. In the superficial. In the written word instead of the truth behind it." Is also a lie and upsupported. The written word of God is alive, pure and good and you will give account to it (Heb 4:12). Let me also add, that the men we have exposed are not sheep of God but wicked men made to be caught and destoryed, just like any brute beast (2 Peter 2:12). In His love, al soto | ||
| Anonymous |
Al Soto don't spend so much time judging other people. You and your group are not the only people on this earth that knows the truth. The way you judge others will be the same way you will be judged. Christ died for all of us not just you. Try spending a little more time loving people and telling them about Christ's love. The next time you judge someone,remember you are a sinner too. | ||
| No Deceit |
"Anonymous" (Are you walking in darkness is that why you don't tell us who you are?) do you know that cowards will not inherit the kingdom of God? As to judging that was already addressed in my last post. | ||
| Anonymous |
No I am not walking in darkness. Get off of it Soto. There are alot of crazies online. I could make up a fake name but I choose not to put any name on my posts. And as for your comment about cowards will not inherit the kingdom of God, what bible did you find that in? It's certainly not in mine. | ||
| No Deceit |
Revelation 21:8 But the cowardly, unbelieving, abominable, murderers, sexually immoral, sorcerers, idolaters, and all liars shall have their part in the lake which burns with fire and brimstone, which is the second death." al soto Those who love the truth can call me at "home" 661-822-1222 | ||
| GuestAce |
No Deceit... From the first, without exception, your posts have all been judgements. Your focus IS on destruction. I don't know what you have done, but since all anyone here has seen is your looking for judgement, do you expect to draw others to Christ? I know the context of that verse, what you have said about it is not untrue. However, a conscience that is seared ALSO looks for judgements for others because of the judgement it heaps upon itself. The apostles were given a ministry of reconciliation. Not condemnation. You can quote the bible all you want. Jack Van Impe does it very well. But Christ's main judgement has nothing to do with that OR with what we have done for Him. It is all wrapped up in one thing - do we know Him. Being 'saved' (as many popularly call it) doesn't mean you know Him. Recognizing evil doesn't mean you know Him. Knowing Him is something that is evident in a man's life by the way He treats the brethren in Christ. And as His life grows in us, replacing the 'I', we become like Him and begin to see Him as we recognize Him and come to know Him. We begin to walk by faith. This thing is unmistakeable in one who truly knows Christ. It doesn't seem evident in your posts. Knowing scripture doesn't even prove we know Him. Read Luke 24. | ||
| No Deceit |
I agree, having a knowledge of Scripture does not prove salvation, but believing in false doctrine without repetance does prove one does not know Christ (2 John 9). "However, a conscience that is seared ALSO looks for judgements for others because of the judgement it heaps upon itself" Support this will Scripture. "The apostles were given a ministry of reconciliation. Not condemnation" Amen. Who is condeming? "Being 'saved' (as many popularly call it) doesn't mean you know Him. Recognizing evil doesn't mean you know Him. Knowing Him is something that is evident in a man's life by the way He treats the brethren in Christ." Support this. Being "saved" does mean you know Him. 2nd statement, no problem and third statement is partly true. One way of knowing Him is how we love the brethren, but not the only way as you seem to indicate. So you will need to clarify that. Guest Ace, what is the point of the matter, come out and say it. Are you saying that I and those of our church know God or not. If we do not, why? Are we truly Christians? Are we in error? Let's speak plain and then we can contend for the faith. By the way, what is your name and what church do you go to? In His love, al soto | ||
| No Deceit |
Yes, all my posts are based upon judgment, righteous judgement. Unless you can show otherwise. You make it sound like I have done something wrong. How have I been focused upon destruction? By exposing lies and deceit? You seem very twisted in your thinking. al soto | ||
| Anonymous |
St. Patrick's Cathedral Sex Prank: Audio Excerpts. Shock jocks "Opie and Anthony"'s radio show was cancelled, and WNEW-FM's license endangered, when their "Sex for Sam" contest, in which participants had sex in public places, included the interior of St. Patrick's Cathedral. Is a church entitled to stronger law enforcement than other public places? (Audio courtesy of The Smoking Gun; RealPlayer required.) http://www.foody.org/atheist.html | ||
| Anonymous |
Guest Ace I wouldn't waste my time trying to reason with Soto. All he is going to do is quote scripture at you to try and prove his point. He used scripture to try and say I would go to hell because I didn't post my name here. The reason I don't post my name is because of lunatics like him. I wonder if he forgot Satan can quote scripture too. | ||
| No Deceit |
"All he is going to do is quote scripture at you to try and prove his point." Praise God! Amazing. You blaspheme the way of truth. Are you afraid of lunatics like me? Is name calling all you can do? Sure Satan can quote Scripture but what did Christ do with that? He cast down His arguments with Scripture. You teach to do otherwise. I fear for your soul. Please repent. In His love, al soto | ||
| Anonymous |
Oh please Soto. Don't fear for my soul. You had better worry about your own. You sound like you are the almighty himself. You think you are always right all the time. You are not. You are very quick to pick out things and yell repent!!! Everything that has been said here is wrong in your mind. I am a bible believing Christian. I have excepted that Jesus is the son of God and that he died for my sins. If I didn't already believe in Christ I would run for my life. When people speak the way you do it turns people away from the church. Maybe you don't want anyone else in the church. Because that is the way you act. Yes you should tell the truth, but there is a way of speaking to people that will make them listen. You would turn anyone off. You seem to get prideful satisfaction when you can prove a point. Check your own heart Soto. I don't know you but I know this, You are not perfect. You sin also. If you say you don't sin then the truth is not in you. Do you enjoy saying repent, repent to someone. So quick to say repent, so quick to judge. Don't you think it would be better just to tell a person about Christ and leave the judging to him. You remind me of the Scribes and the Pharisees, people who had plenty of false pride. When the woman that was caught in adultery was brought to Jesus. The Scribes and the Pharisees wanted Jesus to say by law she should be stoned. But being Jesus he said, John 8:7 He that is without sin, let him first cast a stone at her. That is one of my favorite verses. Why don't you meditate on that. I will not be reading or answering any more of your posts. | ||
| No Deceit |
I'm sorry you hate correction. Proverbs 12 1 Whoever loves instruction loves knowledge, But he who hates correction is stupid. Stupid people end up in hell. In His love, al soto | ||
| Anonymous |
Al soto, you seem to be very limited in your perception of reality and of divinity. if you think that god threw a book from heaven only for you so that you would not need to think by yourself, you are sadly wrong, but it appears that no matter what other tell you, you will make up a response that will send everyone around you to hell if they do not agree a hundred percent with your understanding of religion and especially of the Bible. I don't believe you are a lunatic, perhaps you are a good person but you are certainly a fanatic, as blind as any other fanatic can be. | ||
| Anonymous |
Amen to the above post. John 3:16 For God so loved the world he gave his only begotten Son that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish but have everlasting life. John 3:17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. Thank God for this. | ||
| Guest Ace |
There are many groups that claim to be right. But unless the witness of God's spirit accompanies them, unless they come in the power of the Spirit and not validated by the errors of others: "For we dare not make ourselves of the number, or compare ourselves with some that commend themselves: but they measuring themselves by themselves, and comparing themselves among themselves, are not wise. ... Not boasting of things without our measure, that is, of other men's labours; but having hope, when your faith is increased, that we shall be enlarged by you according to our rule abundantly, To preach the gospel in the regions beyond you, and not to boast in another man's line of things made ready to our hand. But he that glorieth, let him glory in the Lord. For not he that commendeth himself is approved, but whom the Lord commendeth." 2 Corinthians 10:12,15-18 It works both ways. One can glory in another man's error, and THAT is what lifts him up. If we can commend ourselves with ourselves and amongst ourselves, then we are comparing men with men - our standing is based on other men. But if we are simply declaring truth, not tearing down or lifting up other men, then can we be commended of the Lord. Groups whose existence is formed on the basis of other men's errors (whether for or against those errors) measure themselves by themselves (by other men). | ||
| Anonymous |
Guest Ace I do agree with you. And I can accept it simply because not only are you using scripture but you are speaking in a non condemning manner. I do have a hard time with people speaking to me as if they wrote the bible themselves. Next time it happens I'll remember what you said. | ||
| Guest Ace |
GuestAce There is couple other important scriptures that we all do well to remember: "There is therefore now no condemnation to those who are in Christ Jesus, who do not walk according to the flesh, but according to the spirit." Romans 8:1 (that's in italics because the KJV translators evidently added it - it wasn't in the original greek manuscripts) "And hereby we know that we are of the truth, and shall assure our hearts before him. For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things. Beloved, if our heart condemn us not, then have we confidence toward God." I John 3:19-21 God is the only one who can reliably and honestly create condemnation in a heart. By His Holy Spirit He brings conviction. If man tries to do it on his own, it becomes man's work. God may do this through men, but only those who are obedient to Him on a daily basis (in a living relationship, not simply following old, dead letters) will find all their words powerful and effective. Not because they can quote scripture and know the bible, but because they are obedient to His every bidding and He works through their obedience. . We are only called to be obedient to Him. Seeking to know Him. He will also use man's disobedience, (as the psalmist says, even the wrath of man will praise Him) but only the obedient will find all his works (which, by his obedience, are Christ's) effectual in the Lord's ends. That is why it is of the utmost importance to KNOW HIM. Without that, we are clanging cymbals. | ||
| Rupert |
Seems to me that everyone has made the fundamental mistake of taking this Darwin Fish guy seriously. Given that this site is about cults, is there any doubt in anyone's mind that this Darwin Fish is a cult leader? I have to say that, while I don't know much about him, he must be a real jerk if he instructs his sidekicks to go around picking fights with people. And don't forget that this whole argument got going because some poor woman lost her son to these people. Let's not give these people another forum for their dyspeptic prattle. | ||
| No Deceit |
Romans 16 17 Now I urge you, brethren, note those who cause divisions and offenses, contrary to the doctrine which you learned, and avoid them. 18For those who are such do not serve our Lord Jesus[1] Christ, but their own belly, and by smooth words and flattering speech deceive the hearts of the simple. Paul commands believers to point out and note those who are causing division contrary to Scripture. What Guest Ace is propagating is the opposite. Why is that? Because he is a hireling who runs when the wolf comes. He is the like watchmen that are rebuked in Isaiah for not sounding out the warnning. Isaiah 56 9 All you beasts of the field, come to devour, All you beasts in the forest. 10His watchmen are blind, They are all ignorant; They are all dumb dogs, They cannot bark; Sleeping, lying down, loving to slumber. 11Yes, they are greedy dogs Which never have enough. And they are shepherds Who cannot understand; They all look to their own way, Every one for his own gain, I warn you not to follow these dumb dogs who teach you to cover your eyes and ears from hearing the warnings, who tell you "don't wory, everything is OK". Who say," Groups whose existence is formed on the basis of other men's errors (whether for or against those errors) measure themselves by themselves (by other men)." They are blind leaders, and you the followers will fall into the ditch with them. Beware, because God's warning has come upon you. You should rejoice when truth comes and yes TEARS down lies. When Satan quoted Scripture what did Christ do? He cast down the argument. I am amazed that we are disputing over this point. But I guess I shouldn't be because this has been said before: Isaiah 30 9That this is a rebellious people, Lying children, Children who will not hear the law of the LORD; 10Who say to the seers, "Do not see," And to the prophets, "Do not prophesy to us right things; Speak to us smooth things, prophesy deceits. 11Get out of the way, Turn aside from the path, Cause the Holy One of Israel To cease from before us." Oh foolish people take heed to the truth and be zealous for His word. In His love, al soto | ||
| Anonymous |
so, "al soto", what should a person do if they are ashamed of their sinful ways and want to turn it all around? | ||
| Guest Ace |
NoDeceit... With Isaiah's prophecy I have no problem. With exposing lies I have no problem. What is apparent is the focus on the men and 'their' doctrines. It's the same spirit that goes along with calling a ministry "The Joe Smith Ministry" - the focus is the man. You take things men say (whether I agree with everything you espouse or not is not the point) and argue against them. Great. More power to you. But the scriptures say you shall know the truth and the truth shall set you free. Only to the degree that you point others towards truth is the ministry beneficial. But taking things men teach and judging them on the spot is not the message of reconciliation. Speaking the truth in love is. Not condemning, but exposing the fallacies - that is, proclaiming the truth itself - bears fruit worth seeking. Judging men does not. The "True Church" does not discern between the two. Shall we condemn Paul as a liar and a heretic because he once believed Jesus was returning in his day? Yes, men preach untruths. Some (maybe many) lie. But when you judge a man along with his doctrine, you are yourself in danger of judgement. My whole point to posting here was not to say what one doctrine is right and what is wrong. My point was to try and highlight the spirit of exposing men instead of contradicting falsehood. Christ has already done that. Heck, the law has already done that. Man is sinful - period. And when the light (the light of the truth, not the light of exposing other men, but exposing their errors) shines upon the darkness, it flees. Shall I judge the young man who left his wife? Doesn't the bible say that God hates divorce? Isn't the man to give his life for the woman as Christ gave His life for the church? The Law has only allowed divorce for adultery. Is divorce the fruits of a believer? Those 'right things' Isaiah speaks of are not attacking men, but promoting the truth. Judging men and attacking untruth are NOT the same thing. Yes, Jesus cast down the ARGUMENT, not Satan (though I am sure He had the power so to do). | ||
| Anonymous |
This forum looks like a literary chat about the miraculous power of faith in bible script. I have decided to stop reading through the messages posted by such bible fundamentalists. It is all too disgusting and sick. | ||
| Anonymous |
To the above writer, "This forum looks like a literary chat about the miraculous power of faith in bible script." It looks that way because most of the people speaking here are Christians. And it is not at all sick. Christians do use scripture at times when trying to make a point. It is the Word of God. Non Christians do not believe or understand this. | ||
| Anonymous |
Al Soto answer the question. What should a person do if they are ashamed of their sins? What should they do to make it right? | ||
| No Deceit |
Guest Ace, You are blind to the truth that is why you do not understand. Please take heed to what is being written. I fear for your soul. Ephesians 5: 8 For you were once darkness, but now you are light in the Lord. Walk as children of light 9(for the fruit of the Spirit[1] is in all goodness, righteousness, and truth), 10finding out what is acceptable to the Lord. 11And have no fellowship with the unfruitful works of darkness, but rather expose them. This is the way of life for a true believer. Exposing lies and liars. That is true love. Psalm 119 104Through Your precepts I get understanding; Therefore I hate every false way. Men such as Billy Graham area leading people to hell. Love would compell any believer to tell others of that danger. Only a hiriling would stay silent and let the sheep be devoured by the wolves (i.e false teachers). 2 Corinthians 5: 9 Therefore we make it our aim, whether present or absent, to be well pleasing to Him. 10For we must all appear before the judgment seat of Christ, that each one may receive the things done in the body, according to what he has done, whether good or bad. 11Knowing, therefore, the terror of the Lord, we persuade men. . . A True Church and myself will continue to sound the alarm, to convince, rebuke and exhort with all longsuffering, so that those who follow men like Graham, Dobson, Smith, MacArthur etc., flee and get saved. 2 Timothy 4: 1 I charge you therefore before God and the Lord Jesus Christ, who will judge the living and the dead at[1] His appearing and His kingdom: 2Preach the word! Be ready in season and out of season. Convince, rebuke, exhort, with all longsuffering and teaching. 3For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine, but according to their own desires, because they have itching ears, they will heap up for themselves teachers; This is a command, you Guest Ace have blasphemed the truth to teach againt it and blashphemed us for defending this way of truth. The issue is this-you can not be saved and remain in a false religion or follow false teachers (John 10:5, 2 Tim 2:20-21). It is a matter of salvation, not a ministry bent that we have. What should a person to if they are ashamed of their sins? If they are a true believer that person should be ashamed, but he should also believe that God is faithful able to forgive his sins, move on and leave the past in the past. In His love, al soto | ||
| Anonymous |
I will call myself kate. The thing i am wondering is why this casey guy cant answer for himself. A. Casey, how was your upbringing? Do you feel your Mother did a good job or bad job. B. Did you Mom expose you to God and His Word, did you go to church? C. Was your Mother abusive, an acholic, druggie, work too much, describe your Mother for us, we need to understand her point as well as Al Soto. D. Do you think you are a strong spiritual person on your own or do you have to ask permission and ask what to answer to Al Soto? E. What is your living arrangments like, is it like we see on jim jones movies or what. F. Do you feel like you still love your Mother, or do you hate her, what relationship do you have with her. This is something we all need to pray about. Kate | ||
| Guest Ace |
No Deceit... You still read but do not understand. You confuse powers and principalities with men. Yes, men lie. Yes, men are deceived. Yes, we are to turn men from their sin. But to warn men against other men as opposed to specific wrongs is not scriptural. We are not to follow other men, but only Christ. And for those who fall into error, we show them the error of their ways. As an example -- Billy Graham. I don't support the Billy Graham Ministry. Ecumenism seems to be one of their goals. I don't agree with that on the one basis that unity can ONLY be found in Christ. And unity is only spiritual, not enforced (as the Tower of Babel shows). However, if the requirements for one to be 'saved' (according to scripture) are simply - confess with your mouth ... believe in your heart (Jesus Christ and His resurrection on both counts, that He is Lord), then if one does that because of or in spite of false teachers, then we should rejoice. But if our focus on men's errors, we may drive others away from some things those men (heaven forbid) have right. We are not following men, but God. Remember Balaam? God's prophet, but against Him. Yet God still used Him to speak HIS TRUTH to Israel. A man focused on the man delivering the message would reject what he said out of hand. But because God was speaking through Him, the message was worthy though the man's spirit was not. You seem ready to level charges of blasphemy without reading carefully. | ||
| No Deceit |
What a horrifying reality, to think you will enter God's presence on the day of your death, but then, come to find out on that day, you were actually deceived, and you find yourself in hell. Such is, and will be, the terror of most who call themselves Christians today (Matthew 7:13-14; Luke 13:24; 2 Peter 2:2). They will find themselves weeping and gnashing their teeth (e.g. Matthew 8:12; 22:1-14; 25;14-30; Luke 13:28). If you are involved with the kind of Christianity that views Billy Graham, or James Dobson, or John MacArthur, or Greg Laurie, or Charles Stanley, or Chuck Smith, or Charles Blake, or Chuck Swindoll, or T. D. Jakes, or David Jeremiah, or Charles Spurgeon, or Dave Hunt, or Neil Anderson, or Robert Schuller, or Jack Hayford, or Benny Hinn, or Miles McPherson, or Ray Comfort, or Chuck Colson, or C. S. Lewis, or Pope John Paul, or Hank Hanegraaff, or Paul Chappell, or any of the like (or any of the likes on "Christian" TV or radio) as godly men, you are not saved. Why? Because, you are on the broad way (Matthew 7:13; 2 Peter 2:2; 2 Timothy 4:3). You have not the characteristic of Christ¹s sheep (John 10:5). And, men such as these are wells without water (2 Peter 2:17). I. The Broad Way Jesus warned, Enter by the narrow gate; for wide is the gate and broad is the way that leads to destruction, and there are many who go in by it. (Matthew 7:13) The false teachers mentioned above, and the many like them (2 Timothy 4:3), all teach a broad theological road that supposedly leads to heaven (e.g. see some of our reports on these men). False teachers differ as to how broad this way is, but nonetheless, they all teach a broad way. As Charles Spurgeon put it, What is the reason why there are so many [Christian] sects in the world? Surely it must be because we don¹t follow the guidance of the Spirit of God. If we followed the Word of God and the will of God in all things, we should be very much more alike than we are. I do not think that even then we should all run in the same groove, for the road to heaven may be sufficiently wide to have several different paths in it, and yet shall they all be in the same way and in the same road. (Metropolitan Tabernacle Pulpit, Vol. 61, p. 514-515, Sept., 28, 1870, bold added) Spurgeon lies and speaks the exact opposite of Christ when he says, "the road to heaven may be sufficiently wide to have several different paths in it." Spurgeon believed both Calvinists and Arminians were on this wide path to heaven (see our report Spurgeon, An Ecumenical False Teacher). Jesus says it's narrow. Spurgeon says it's wide. Such teaching is damning. False teachers, like those mentioned above, teach that amongst saved Christians there is a wide spectrum of conflicting doctrines and this manifests itself as differing forms of Christianity (e.g., see our report on Chuck Smith, or note Chuck Colson's book, The Body, or C. S. Lewis' book, Mere Christianity). False teachers create this delusion by holding to some form of creed, creeds, essentials, fundamentals, or core belief that supposedly unifies all true believers. If one stays within the bounds of this central belief (often called "orthodox Christianity," or "historic Christianity," e.g. Hank Hanegraaff, Christianity In Crisis, p. 31, 43) then a person is considered to be in the truth. And, other doctrines that the Bible addresses are counted as peripheral issues (or "secondary" or "non-essential") and are perceived as matters that do not pertain to salvation (e.g. Hank Hanegraaff, ibid., p. 47). As the Catholic of old put it, In essentials, unity; in nonessentials, liberty; and in all things, charity. (Augustine, quoted by Hank Hanegraaff, Christianity In Crisis, copyright 1993, p. 47) Augustine's words well sum up the broad way (Matthew 7:13). They make room for many who do not see eye to eye regarding a myriad of Scriptural subjects. Thus, they create a wide theological path (as Spurgeon put it) that supposedly leads to heaven, but in reality leads to hell; because people are led to "not receive the love of the truth" (2 Thessalonians 2:10). With this "essentials" doctrine (or any mentality like it), the broad way (Matthew 7:13-14) breeds complacency like gangrene in the hearts of men and women. Since there are so many matters in the Scriptures that are considered not pertinent to salvation, trembling before the word of God is made obsolete (Psalm 119:120; Isaiah 66:2, 5; Philippians 2:12), and no one makes haste to keep His commandments (Psalm 119:60). No one makes haste to keep all His precepts (Psalm 119:128, 151). So, wisdom cries out, How long, you simple ones, will you love simplicity? For scorners delight in their scorning, and fools hate knowledge. (Proverbs 1:22) When "Christians" agree to disagree over what the Bible teaches, and only the "essential" matters matter (in regards to salvation), there resides an unbiblical simplicity in the mind and a deadly cancer (2 Timothy 2:16-17) in the hearts of such fools (false Christians) who learn to scorn and hate knowledge. Because, their perspective is, "Hey, it's not a matter of salvation." Therefore, their complacency will destroy them (Proverbs 1:32). Contrary to any "essentials," Christ said, Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God. (Matthew 4:4) Life is had "by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God" (i.e. Genesis to Revelation). It is trust in the word of God that saves, as James exhorts, Therefore lay aside all filthiness and overflow of wickedness, and receive with meekness the implanted word, which is able to save your souls. (James 1:21) It is the word of God that saves (e.g. Luke 8:11-12). It is the word of God that must be believed (e.g. Genesis 15:5-6; Romans 4:3). If you are directed away from faith in the word of God, whatever the issue, this can lead to the destruction of your soul. Because, Abraham believed God and it was reckoned to him as righteousness (Genesis 15:5-6; Romans 4:3). If you do not believe God, it will be accounted to you as wickedness (Psalm 119:118; 1 John 5:10). Therefore, there are no Biblical issues we can agree to disagree upon, because Scripture warns and instructs, If anyone teaches otherwise and does not consent to wholesome words, even the words of our Lord Jesus Christ, and to the doctrine which accords with godliness, he is proud, knowing nothing, but is obsessed with disputes and arguments over words, from which come envy, strife, reviling, evil suspicions, useless wranglings of men of corrupt minds and destitute of the truth, who suppose that godliness is a means of gain. From such withdraw yourself. (1 Timothy 6:3-5) If anyone teaches anything other than holy writ and does not heed Scriptural correction ("teaches otherwise and does not consent" 1 Timothy 6:3), then we are instructed to withdraw and turn away from such a person (1 Timothy 6:5; 2 Timothy 3:5). This is the opposite of agreeing to disagree. It is rather, agreeing to leave and not fellowship with them. Because, He who keeps instruction is in the way of life, but he who refuses correction goes astray. (Proverbs 10:17) Those who go astray from the word of God, are not in the truth, and are not saved; and their words are words of deceit, as Psalm 119:118 declares, You reject all those who stray from Your statutes, for their deceit is falsehood. God rejects all those who stray from His word. It does not matter what the subject matter is. There is no salvation for any who heed not holy writ, as Psalm 119:21 proclaims, You rebuke the proud, the cursed, who stray from Your commandments. No matter who you are, you are cursed if you do not follow after God's word. Thus, it is eternally important to love correction, as Proverbs asserts, For the commandment is a lamp, and the law a light; reproofs of instruction are the way of life. (Proverbs 6:23) Cease listening to instruction, my son, and you will stray from the words of knowledge. (Proverbs 19:27) This is what the false Christian world has done. They have strayed from the words of knowledge (2 Timothy 4:3; 2 Peter 2:18), and followed after a broad path that leads to hell (Matthew 7:13-14). In opposition to a wide path, is the theologically narrow way that leads to life (Matthew 7:13-14; Luke 13:24). How narrow? In the very context in which Christ warned about the broad way (Matthew 7:13), He ended His sermon with this warning. Therefore whoever hears these sayings of Mine, and does them, I will liken him to a wise man who built his house on the rock: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it did not fall, for it was founded on the rock. But everyone who hears these sayings of Mine, and does not do them, will be like a foolish man who built his house on the sand: and the rain descended, the floods came, and the winds blew and beat on that house; and it fell. And great was its fall. (Matthew 7:24-27) In the context in which Jesus spoke these words (Matthew 5:3-7:23), He preached about contriteness, mourning, meekness, hunger, thirst, purity, peace, persecution, anger, divorce, adultery, oaths, love, giving, prayer, forgiveness, fasting, possessions, needs, worrying, judging, rebuking, seeking, false prophets, etc.. Do you see any "non-essentials" in there? Christ makes no distinction concerning any of the many matters He addressed in His sermon. For Him, it all matters eternally. Because, the Lord describes in a very picturesque way, life or death and heaven or hell for those who hear His words and either do them or do not do them. Christ placed an eternal importance upon all that He said, as Proverbs instructs, My son, give attention to my words; incline your ear to my sayings. Do not let them depart from your eyes; keep them in the midst of your heart; for they are life to those who find them, and health to all their flesh. (Proverbs 4:20-22; see also Proverbs 8:35 & 16:22) My son, let them not depart from your eyes, keep sound wisdom and discretion; so they will be life to your soul and grace to your neck. (Proverbs 3:21-22) Revelation likewise affirms, Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. (Revelation 22:14) Those who keep God's word are those who have the right to the tree of life. In other words, they are the ones who will be granted salvation. The dividing line between those who are saved and those who are not is the Bible itself. If someone truly believes in the Scripture, they are believing in Christ, because Christ is the Scripture (John 1:1, 14; Galatians 3:8; Hebrews 4:12-13; Revelation 19:13); and they will obey Him, as John the Baptist said, He who believes in the Son has eternal life; but he who does not obey the Son shall not see life, but the wrath of God abides on him. (John 3:36 NAS, see also 1 John 2:3-5). Believing in Jesus is identical to believing in and obeying the Bible. 2 John likewise declares, Whoever transgresses and does not abide in the doctrine of Christ does not have God. He who abides in the doctrine of Christ has both the Father and the Son. (2 John 9) The doctrine of Christ is not only what He taught in Matthew 5:3-7:27, or all the red print in the gospels. The doctrine of Christ equals the entirety of Scripture (Psalm 119:160). Those who transgress and do not remain within the bound of holy writ, do not have God. They are not saved (2 John 9). There are not many different kinds of true Christianity, as Spurgeon depicted with his "wide" road with "several different paths in it." There is only one kind of true Christianity, and it is the kind that keeps His word (1 John 2:5), all of it (Psalm 119:128, 160, Matthew 4:4). Scripture teaches that true believers believe the same on every single Biblical doctrine (1 John 4:6, for a more in-depth explanation, see The Unity Of The Saints). There is no agreeing to disagree, or essentials and non-essentials. The war is over the truth of the word of God (Genesis to Revelation), and true believers are in opposition to any and every error that would come against it (Psalm 119:104, 128). As Paul wrote, For though we walk in the flesh, we do not war according to the flesh. For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ. (2 Corinthians 10:3-5) Be warned. It only takes one lie to love and practice to keep you outside the kingdom of God. Blessed are those who do His commandments, that they may have the right to the tree of life, and may enter through the gates into the city. But outside are dogs and sorcerers and sexually immoral and murderers and idolaters, and whoever loves and practices a lie. (Revelation 22:14-15; see also Revelation 21:8) False teachers, like those mentioned at the beginning of this article, encourage people not only to love and practice a lie (like the "essentials" lie), but rather many lies as they divert people's trust off of God's word and onto their own great sounding words of emptiness (2 Peter 2:18). The amazing part of this is, the false teachers, being deceived themselves (2 Timothy 3:13), have people thinking they are following the Bible, when in reality they are following the doctrines of men (Matthew 15:8-9), like the "essentials" lie which is a damning doctrine of men, nowhere taught in the Word of God (Proverbs 30:5-6). Most people are either pagans, lost in some false religion, or false Christians caught on the broad way (Matthew 7:13-14; 2 Timothy 4:3). Most people have not even found the narrow way, the way of truth (2 Peter 2:2). Yet, Christ warns even those who have found the narrow way with these words: Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. (Luke 13:24) Even among those who have actually found the narrow gate, many of them do not enter. Many go to perdition, as Peter writes, For the time has come for judgment to begin at the house of God; and if it begins with us first, what will be the end of those who do not obey the gospel of God? Now "If the righteous one is scarcely saved, where will the ungodly and the sinner appear?" (1 Peter 4:17-18) The righteous make it with difficulty (Matthew 7:14; Acts 14:22). It is not an easy path. Therefore, if you follow the typical Christianity that prevails in the world today, or anything like it, if you are on this broad way, and you do not reject it (2 Timothy 3:5; Hebrews 12:14), you will lie down in torment (Isaiah 50:11; 66:24; Revelation 21:8); because you have not received "the love of the truth, that [you] might be saved" (2 Thessalonians 2:10); and because, II. Christ's Sheep Flee Those who have received the love of the truth would not hang around such broad way "Christianity," because they would know the truth does matter, and in loving the truth they would "hate every false way" (Psalm 119:104, 128, 163), as Proverbs 8:13 says, "the fear of the Lord is to hate evil." False doctrine, on any Biblical matter, is evil (Proverbs 30:5-6). Note how Jesus describes His sheep. He says they follow Him. They follow the truth (John 14:6). My sheep hear My voice, and I know them, and they follow Me. (John 10:27) Earlier Jesus describes Himself and His sheep by saying, And when he brings out his own sheep, he goes before them; and the sheep follow him, for they know his voice. They will by no means follow a stranger, but will flee from him, for they do not know the voice of strangers. (John 10:4-5) Jesus' sheep are those who are saved (John 10:27-28), and they are described as those who "will by no means follow a stranger." This "by no means" dictates that under no circumstances will Christ's sheep follow a stranger. Who is a stranger? A stranger is anyone other than Christ whom the sheep do not know. The context of John 10:5 is false spiritual leaders (John 9:40-41), and a stranger is seen as equivalent to "thieves and robbers" (John 10:8). Christ's sheep hear neither strangers (John 10:5) nor thieves and robbers (John 10:8). Anyone who would speak so as to divert a person away from Christ would fit "a stranger," and this is what false teachers do. "They speak great swelling words of emptiness" (2 Peter 2:18), and bring people into the same bondage and corruption by which they themselves are held (Luke 6:39-40; 2 Peter 2:19). Therefore, anyone following any of the men listed at the beginning of this article, or any like them, are not Christ's sheep. Because the Lord says, not only will they not follow them, but they "flee from him." Christ's sheep do not hang out with false teachers and false churches. They flee from those who do not speak the truth ("strangers"). Whether it is a Catholic church, Mormon church, Jehovah's Witness Hall, Muslim mosque, or any of the myriad of churches on the broad way (like Grace Community in Panorama City, CA; or Lancaster Baptist in Lancaster, CA, etc.), Christ's sheep are not found counted in their ranks. The only ones who are found heeding such religion are the wicked, as Proverbs 17:4 declares, An evildoer gives heed to false lips. Evildoers are to be found in these churches, not those who follow Christ (John 10:5). Therefore, if you are involved in a false church, you prove yourself to be still lost in your sin. God calls you an evildoer (Proverbs 17:4), and by His Word identifies you as not one of His own by the sheer fact that you do not flee such wickedness (John 10:5; 1 Timothy 6:5; 2 Timothy 2:20-21; 3:5; Hebrews 12:14; 13:13). Someone might argue, "But, the Lord used Billy Graham (or some other false teacher) to bring me to Christ." This too is a lie, because false teachers, like those mentioned at the beginning of this article, are, III. Wells Without Water Speaking of false teachers, Peter wrote, These are wells without water, clouds carried by a tempest, for whom is reserved the blackness of darkness forever. (2 Peter 2:17) Peter calls false teachers "wells without water." Jude says they are "clouds without water" (Jude 12). What does this mean? In the Scriptures, water is used to speak of the Spirit of truth (i.e. the Holy Spirit, John 7:37-39; 14:15-18; 15:26; 16:13), God (Jeremiah 2:13/17:13), and salvation (Isaiah 55:1; Psalm 36:9; John 4:10-14; Revelation 7:17; 21:6; 22:1,17). Therefore, if false teachers are without this water, they do not have the Holy Spirit (like in Jude 19). They are without God (2 John 9), and do not have salvation (2 Peter 2:3, 12-14, 17; Jude 4, 11, 13). As 1 Timothy 6:5 says, they are "destitute of the truth" and know "nothing". The Lord calls them "wells" and "clouds." A well is a hole in the ground that is supposed to have water, or gives the appearance that it would have water. A cloud likewise gives the appearance that it carries moisture. Yet, a well or a cloud without water gives a false impression, and false teachers do this well. They fool the masses into thinking God is using them to bring people to Christ, but it is all a Satanic facade (as in 2 Corinthians 11:13-15). They have no water. They have no truth (truth mixed with lies = deceit and no truth), no salvation, and no Holy Spirit. Thus, they do nothing but deceive people. They are as Jesus said, "blind leaders of the blind. And if the blind leads the blind, both will fall into a ditch" (Matthew 15:14). Jesus also said, The thief does not come except to steal, and to kill, and to destroy. (John 10:10a) This statement is made in the context of "thieves and robbers" (John 10:1, 8). It is not speaking solely of Satan, but rather his ministers as well (2 Corinthians 11:15; John 10:1). It lets us know the sole purpose of these charlatans, and that is to deceive (to steal, kill, and destroy). They steal using "great swelling words of emptiness" (2 Peter 2:18). They kill by being used by the devil (1 Peter 5:8) to divert people away from the words of life (Proverbs 4:20-22; 14:12; 18:21; Philippians 2:16). And they destroy with their "destructive heresies" (2 Peter 2:1). They may not be aware of the depth of their own evil (e.g. John 16:2-3; 2 Timothy 3:13), but they are nonetheless "like natural brute beasts made to be caught and destroyed" (2 Peter 2:12); and they do destroy others. If the Lord were to use a false teacher for some good, it would be in spite of him, not because of him. As the Lord used Balaam the false prophet to bless Israel (Numbers 22-24), it was not because Balaam was a godly man or one who lead people to God (Numbers 25:1-9; 31:16; 2 Peter 2:15-16). It was simply because God turned the curse into a blessing (Deuteronomy 23:5; Nehemiah 13:2). Scripture does not teach that the Lord uses false teachers to lead people to Christ. On the contrary, the Word teaches that God uses false teachers to lead people away from Christ (Psalm 118:22-24; Romans 11:36; 1 Peter 2:7). False teachers falsely boast of giving the gospel to people. But they are like the one mentioned in Proverbs 25:14. Whoever falsely boasts of giving is like clouds and wind without rain. They are clouds and wells without water, a dry disappointment. If you are going to "draw water from the wells of salvation" (Isaiah 12:3), you need to go where the water is to be found (John 4:10, 13-14). It is not found with the likes of the men mentioned above. It is not found in the myriad of false churches and ministries. It is found in the pages of the Word of God (1 Peter 1:22-23; Hebrews 4:12-13; Revelation 19:13). Cry out (Proverbs 2:3), weep (James 4:9), and seek for understanding (Proverbs 2:4) like there is no tomorrow, because for most, there is no tomorrow (Psalm 9:17; 92:7; Proverbs 1:24-32; Matthew 7:13-14). Strive to enter through the narrow gate, for many, I say to you, will seek to enter and will not be able. (Luke 13:24, see also What Must I Do To Be Saved?) a true church, P. O. Box 797, Lake Hughes, CA 93532 1-800-HOW-TRUE, www.atruechurch.info | ||
| Guest Ace |
"If you are going to "draw water from the wells of salvation" (Isaiah 12:3), you need to go where the water is to be found (John 4:10, 13-14). It is not found with the likes of the men mentioned above." Amen. It is not found with any man but the man Christ Jesus. | ||
| Anonymous |
TO GUEST ACE, AMEN! AL SOTO SOUNDS LIKE A DEMON STRAIGHT FROM WHERE HE LOVES TO SOUND OFF ABOUT SO MUCH....! | ||
| Guest Ace |
Much of what he (No Deceit) says is true. But our focus is not to be on man - it is to be on Jesus Christ. | ||
| Anonymous |
TO GUEST ACE I ALSO THINK THAT TRUE CHURCH USES SCRIPTURE BUT NOT ALL SCRIPTUE. I FIND IT EXTRADINARY THAT HE TALKS MAINLY ABOUT HATE, HELL, AND EVERYONE BUT HIM AND TRUE CHURCH ARE GOING THERE. SINCE IT IS GODS WILL THAT ALL MEN BE SAVED, GODS WILL MUST BE BEING DEFEATED. BUT I BELIEVE THAT MANY, MANY, MANY WILL BE SAVED. KEEP UP THE GOSPEL NEWS. REALLY IN HIS LOVE, | ||
| Anonymous |
Whoahh...! What kind of ultra orthodox bible freaks are posting in this forum? | ||
| Anonymous |
Using only scripture that speaks of hell, torment, death, wrath, suffering, fear and destruction does not tell the entire story. Using those scriptures exclusively would make a person wonder what kind of God is it that we serve. The scriptures describing God's love, mercy, patience, kindness, forgiveness and gentleness have been left out. Note this is in the bible also. Tell the entire story not just part of it. Remember there are non Christians reading these posts. Isn't winning souls for Christ more important than making a point. The Lord is watching what you say even when posting on a discussion board. Are you going to argue a point concerning a person's destruction or a person's salvation? Bringing souls to Christ should be our number one job. We are living in a time of grace. Today is the day of salvation. People will read this board and say "I'm glad I'm not a Christian, they are mean to one another". Speak so people will want to come to Christ not in a way to make them turn away. Build each other up and not tear each other down. For we are all brothers and sisters in Christ,heirs together. Be careful when you point your finger at another even when you use scripture to prove your point. Only God can see our hearts. Only God can say the lake of fire or eternity with him. Guest Ace I do commend you on your gentleness and patience. We should all take note in not only what you said but how you said it. If we just all remembered John13:34-35 A new commandment I give unto you, That ye love one another as I have loved you that ye also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. | ||
| No Deceit |
Amen salvation is only in one name under heaven, Jesus Christ. But our focus is on loving the truth, defending it, and exposing lies. Why, because it matters. You miss the obvious. Our focus is on Jesus Christ. John 1:1 and Matt 4:4 says it all. Because our focus is on Jesus Christ we do what we do. We obey His commands and you Guest keep saying that this is wrong. That our focus is wrong. You.....are wrong. | ||
| Anonymous |
hello...this is kate again....why cant casey speak to us....i read his mothers letters again....what happened with the problem of child abuse...what happened to your wife casey...all this discussion is about a mom and wife and child who lost thier son, husband and father to a cult who does not even believe in God, yet this mother and wife seem to stil care. All these people talking about the bible does not answer the question or the statement of worry to the public that this cult apparently kidnapped spiritualy and we are not hearing from him, just this soto person, really, shouldnt someone be calling the child services and police on this situation instead of arguing, its lke the house burns down while you guys all fight over which water hose to use....kate | ||
| Anonymous |
Kate if you noticed the subject is not about Casey his mother or his child. If you had read the earlier posts you would have seen he chooses to communicate via email and not the discussion board. If you have questions for him click on his name and email him. And Al Soto I did see what the subject was about. It just seemed there was a lot of bickering and that is why I bought up the fact that we should respect each other regardless of the subject being discussed. | ||
| No Deceit |
Coward, who calls herself Kate, may God forgive your wicked words of deceit. al soto I can forward you his number if you wish to speak with him? Would you call? | ||
| No Deceit |
Well, there are soo many anonymous's on this board, its hard to keep track. I am sorry to see that many of you are afraid to use your real names. Anyhow, as to respect...sure we should be longsuffering and respectful, but I do not respect false beliefs and I will cast those down. AND...false teachers they are to be noted and avoided. In His love, al soto | ||
| Anonymous |
I would not give someone in your mental condition my real name for no reason. You can call this cowardy or whatsoever, but I am convinced that the sole association with people talking like you constitutes a danger for the mental health of anyone. You talk like a cultic freak and there is no way I can trust you as a person, because I can see you have lost your marbles since quite a while. I hate to say this but, since the problem of cultism is contagious, no person with some healthy level of sanity should associate with people like you in a personal manner. The way you talk and reason, you do not leave your interlocutor any chance for self-explanation of his own questions of being. You are dogmatic, fanatic and active-aggressive. You are nuts. | ||
| Anonymous |
hi, this is kate. i just went to work and back on web. i dont want caseys number, i would rather talk to mother, i just push rita bryant or what? Anyway, to soto, i did not mean you do not believe in God, just that you dont BELIEVE in HIM, His power, His love, His longsuffering, His forgiveness. Or maybe its that I dont think you have experieced the salvation plan of God which is so simple. So simple. I see Jesus in my heart, sitting with the trees and mountains emcompassing Him or in temples with people sitting at his feet or walking along dusty paths with his friends and followers. I know He is firm but Jesus taught a different message than you are bringing into the world. I know that i know that you need to ask God to show you His true message of hope and peace in our lives and forever. You dont seem to have peace and i am sorrowful for you. Peace, the knowledge that my Lord and Savior is with me all the time. I want to add that i believe that 1 and 2 Cor speaks about this. 2 cor paul tells us how he does not come with big words but rather with a message of christ crucified. cor 1 speaks of 18: for the message of the cross is foolishness to those who are perishing, but to us who are being saved, it is the power of God. For it is written I will destroy the wisdom of the wise; the intelliegence of the intelligent i will frustrate. 23: but we preach Christ crucified; a stumbling block to jews and foolishness to gentiles, 25: for the fooishness of God is wiser than mans wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than mans strength. Now, to anyone new on this open format, God is not hard, Jesus is easy, He does save you and keep you by the power of His blood. Remember, he died for you and me. We do not have to have anybody on this earth to tell us whether we are going to hell or not. If you are reading this and think you could never be a Christian because you are not well read enough, please, for God sakes, accept Him now, and His Holy Spirit will bring you to His Knowledge of Love. And its a spiritual warfare out here, Satan does not care one thing about you until you say, yes Lord, i want you in my life, and then, here comes Satan and he goes like a lion thorougout the land devouring whomever he can, including our young. I believe that certain cults are of Satan and the anti christ and we must pray they are destroyed spiritually by the power of prayer and that our young ones go back to their first love and rejoice that their Father Jesus is waiting with open arms and tears streaming down His eyes and the angels are singing their wondrous songs. I believe God has let me tell all in groups out there wondering if they should go home, yes, if it is not feeling right, not good, if its full of hate and fighting and turmoil, how could this be of God. How? I tell all of you that i know that i know that on that great day when i meet jesus he will embrace me and only He can judge my deeds. Not soto or his group. For God so loved the world he sent his only begotten son that we might be saved, and i believe that salvation not only happens at the time of repentence but is an ongoing, growing part of us. Please, dont anybody listen to soto. pray, rather, that he might go back to the word and be saved thru the blood of christ at calvary. At the cross, where i first saw the light is all anyone needs. kate | ||
| Anonymous |
This is, at the end of the day, a site about cults. Darwin Fish, and his little sidekick Al Soto, are part of a cult. He wins every time somebody else posts here, arguing with him about nothing. | ||
| No Deceit |
So what makes a church a cult? Please, what is your proof. No one has proven this. al PS. If you can not do so, it is called slander. Some here have said I am saved, some here call us a cult, so what is it? | ||
| Anonymous |
this is, at the end of day, about Good versis Evil. Will study cults and get back to subject possibly tomorrow. Is someone out there trembling at the name of Jesus? Kate Ps. Rita Bryant, if you are watching, please, who is casey and what was he like before he met soto. | ||
| Anonymous |
Hello Kate. Thank you for telling the truth about our Lord. I don't tremble at the name of Jesus, it only makes me joyful. Thank you for telling it the way it really is. Everyone should read the fourth post above this one. If you want to write Rita Bryant just click on her name and you can email her. Casey is her son. Al Soto there are many people here on this board that will not write in their real names. Some because of you and I think most because there are so many unbalanced people in the world. Not speaking of the people posting here but there are people lurking here also. Ever heard of cyber stalkers? It's not safe, especially if you are female. Because this board allows you to post anonymously you will find more people posting here. I think that is a good thing. To the post that states when we post here Al Soto wins. Anytime a person can speak the truth about the Lord and many people can see it, the Lord wins. | ||
| Anonymous |
dear anoymous: Thank you very much for your word of encouragment. The Lord does always win. bye for now, thanks for telling me how to contact rita, hope though she contacts the this site to give her opionion to everyone so that others might keep up her vigil with her. | ||
| Anonymous |
i dont want to give my defnition of cult right now, i would rather you give me your definition. I know my feelings about groups, meetings, but would rather get your definition. Are you still trying to get me off the subject i am on, Casey and his Mom by getting me to get on subject cults, dont we all have our perceptions of cults. will be gone for a day or so, not a "coward", just working again. kate | ||
| Anonymous |
THE EARTH CHARTER PREAMBLE < Document deleted by administrator. You can see another copy of this at http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/489.html?1033314473 > | ||
| Anonymous |
To who ever you are, In all your ways to improve the earth you never once mentioned God the creator of the earth. With all your togetherness talk you sound a like a NEW AGER. I don't agree with your way of improving the world at all. You are going about it all wrong. Seek God first!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
Global society, We are one human family and one earth community, a common destiny, global partnership, reconizge all beings are interdependent. This from the second post above this one. All these ideas are New Age ideas as the previous post stated. This is the teaching of satan. These New Age people believe we are on the verge of a one world government, one world religous system, one authority for the entire world. And you know they are right. Satan has given them this info. They are working towards this goal. They think it will bring love and peace to the entire world. Well it will bring a false peace for three and a half years. Christians already know this. Non Christians please don't listen to anyone who tells you this. Oh all the words sound nice but it is to deceive you. The bible warns that this will happen. The one world authority is the anti christ who will get his power from Satan. This is not a fairy tale. It is the truth. Read Revelations. God has warned us of this. He will come back don't doubt that. Please stay as far away from New Age teachings as you can. The new age beliefs are only satan's ideas. Satan is a liar and a deceiver..If you think he doesn't exist, just look at the world and the mess it is in. Poverty, murders, stealing, rapes,all kinds of lawlessness. More than I can list. Satan knows his time is short and he is prowling around looking for who he can devour. Adults think back twenty years. Have times changed? Are times better or worse? Oh technology is improved but what about man's heart. People are much more wicked than twenty years ago. So many people are doing so much evil. IT is called sin. It gets worse as time goes on. We are living in the last days. Just do this one thing. Look up new age beliefs online. Read what they believe. Then please read Revalations in the bible and compare them. Say a pray and ask God to open your eyes and let you see. Please turn to Christ. He is truly the only way. | ||
| Jean-Paul |
this is the anonymous that Al Soto accused of slander several posts above. self-published manifestos are almost always obnoxious. This kind of "moral high" that is pervading on this site is not only disgusting, but contradictory to the purpose of this site- to identify cults. With everyone prattling about the world as they see it, I cannot help but think that we have more than a couple of potential cult leaders/members in the making right here. Put away your egos and two cents for a moment, and concentrate on the fact that our main purpose here should be to share information about Darwin Fish so that curious readers can use that information to decide whether or not Darwin Fish is right for them. What do you possibly hope to accomplish by arguing with Al Soto? The guy could probably find a bible quote concerning what we should all eat for lunch, i.e. you can't beat him so long as that is the focus of the argument. One could use the bible to prove just about anything. So please, lets hear some conclusive posts on the general topic of whether or not Darwin Fish is dangerous. | ||
| No Deceit |
Amen. Are we "dangerous"? What makes us a cult? | ||
| Anonymous |
Jean Paul I can speak on anything I choose here. If someone comes here with a long line about Global community I will answer it regardless of if you want to hear it or not. This entire site is about false teachings of cults. And New Age is false teaching. If Al Soto had written that I would have addressed him but he didn't. Since he is a false teacher as you said why don't you talk about. Why don't you give some conclusive evidence. Don't tell me what I can't say here. I am only trying to warn people about false teachings. I am no cult leader as you said. Nor do I want to be one. I am only warning as the bible has stated. It is not my ego. It is God's teachings I spoke of. You can either accept it or not. And Al Soto I thought you were so against false teachings. You said amen to what Jean Paul's said. | ||
| Anonymous |
Jean Paul I can speak on anything I choose here. If someone comes here with a long line about Global community I will answer it regardless of if you want to hear it or not. This entire site is about false teachings of cults. And New Age is false teaching. If Al Soto had written that I would have addressed him but he didn't. Since he is a false teacher as you said why don't you talk about. Why don't you give some conclusive evidence. Don't tell me what I can't say here. I am only trying to warn people about false teachings. I am no cult leader as you said. Nor do I want to be one. I am only warning as the bible has stated. It is not my ego. It is God's teachings I spoke of. You can either accept it or not. And Al Soto I thought you were so against false teachings. You said amen to what Jean Paul said. | ||
| Anonymous |
I have read most of The True Church website. And everything that is said by the site and by Al Soto is backed up by scripture. Scripture is true. But using only the scriptures that will condemn is not being completely truthful because so much is being left out. When you say Al Soto is a false teacher I think it should be said he is a half truth teacher. He does not speak of all scripture, only the parts he can use to condemn you. It's like telling a story and leaving out half of it. And I am sure he will condemn me for saying this and send me to hell like he has sent so many others. | ||
| Anonymous |
hi, this is kate. I would like to address the first letter that started all this, rita bryants concern about her son Casey who left his family for a church. It is m personal opinion that this is certainly a part of joining a cult. After reading fish articles, they seem weird. I believe that it should be God first, family second and church third. What God has joined together, let no man or church run by man put asunder. Rita Bryant, Casey, where are you. What is the truth? | ||
| Anonymous |
this is kate. Rita Bryant, may i contact you personally on the site, or would that be invading your privacy. i am a woman and i have a loved one also that is out there. if we can prove this soto guy and group is dangerous, i want to help in any way i can. just say yes or no if i can send you personal messages if you are reading this. | ||
| Jean-Paul |
The only posts that belong on this site are the first five; which expressed concern over the group, some sharing of relatively objective information, and a brief defense by the group, that stated nothing other than a desire for interested persons to check out their website: very reasonable. Thereafter, it turned into a holier-than-thou debate, with everyone pointing their finger at each other. Rita Bryant, and probably Casey Bryant, are gone. Lets get over that. The most we could ever hope for at this point is to understand why they are gone (not that it would change anything). I personally don't feel that Darwin Fish is right for me, and that they (the "true church") are probably a bit unhealthy. That's just me, though. I can't imagine that anyone really cares about my personal views on the subject, seeing as I have never had any personal experience with the group. Who knows, maybe we've just been catching Al Soto in a bad mood? I'm not trying to say one "cannot" post opinions, I'm just saying that the potential for heated debates (such as this one) is so great, one ought to practice restraint and just stick with the facts. And yes, I'm aware of the irony in posting an opinion against posting opinions. | ||
| No Deceit |
Still waiting........... | ||
| Rita Bryant |
Yes, Kate, you may send me a message. Jean-Paul, I am not gone. I'm watching all this and I would say that my point has been made. I'm very sad for my son. I'm very sad for my young daughter-in-law and our precious granddaughter. No husband, no daddy. That's a fact! Rita | ||
| No Deceit |
Hey Rita, her dad is in Bakersfield where she can move to. Is it a sin to move to a different city? | ||
| No Deceit |
Psalm 27 A Psalm of David. 1 The LORD is my light and my salvation; Whom shall I fear? The LORD is the strength of my life; Of whom shall I be afraid? 2When the wicked came against me To eat up my flesh, My enemies and foes, They stumbled and fell. 3Though an army may encamp against me, My heart shall not fear; Though war may rise against me, In this I will be confident. Well, I have said enough. I will not contend further with cowards who will not inherit the kingdom of heaven. Read the above verse and tell me you are not being cowards. You can not even give your name? That is sad. 1st- No one has shown from the word of God were we teach error. 2nd- No one has casted down our arguments. 3rd- Rita Bryant continues to hate her son and the rest of us for not trying to show us the "error" of our ways. The door is always open to those who desire the truth. May God save your souls. You people have shown yourself to hate knowledge. Guest Ace you at least attemtped to contend for the faith (I thank for you for that), although you are still in error, the rest of you provided nothing but slander. May God save your souls. al soto no-deceit@atruechurch.info 661-822-1222 (cowards need not call....what I am saying, the cowards on this board would not call) Proverbs 14 6A scoffer seeks wisdom and does not find it, But knowledge is easy to him who understands. 7Go from the presence of a foolish man, When you do not perceive in him the lips of knowledge. 8The wisdom of the prudent is to understand his way, But the folly of fools is deceit. | ||
| Anonymous |
Oh there you go again the famous Al Soto. You had been a little quiet. But as soon as you see Rita Byrant you start with your quotes again. It was explained to you before why people don't put their names down. If you are so dense you can't understand that it is too bad. Also is that all you can say about the people who post here?? Guest Ace was right but he was not the only one that was right. The only person Al Soto listens to is Al Soto. Why would you think anyone would listen to you. | ||
| Guest Ace |
No Deceit, I don't plan on posting here again, but I think I should point something out that I'm not even sure you notice. But whether or not you do is not my concern. It is simply support for my contention of the spirit that you bring being focused on the man more than the teaching. You are ready to charge other men with slander and blaspheme, yet you yourself return what could be considered slanderous and even blasphemous. Your last post is a good example: "(cowards need not call....what I am saying, the cowards on this board would not call)" and IMMEDIATELY FOLLOWING (which made me wonder if you were doing it in jest or not) was this: "A scoffer seeks wisdom and does not find it, But knowledge is easy to him who understands. Go from the presence of a foolish man ..." You charge others with slander and blaspheme and then call them scoffers and cowards. I see tit for tat here. But this is not the Spirit of Jesus Christ who said: " Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you; That ye may be the children of your Father which is in heaven: for he maketh his sun to rise on the evil and on the good, and sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." Matthew 5:43-45 and "But I say unto you, That whosoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment: and whosoever shall say to his brother, Raca, shall be in danger of the council: but whosoever shall say, Thou fool, shall be in danger of hell fire." Matthew 5:22 Calling others cowards does not evidence the Spirit of Jesus Christ: "Ye have heard that it hath been said, An eye for an eye, and a tooth for a tooth: But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matthew 5:38,39 You had the opportunity to do so, to speak kindly to unbelievers but instead called them cowards and scoffers. Again, I go back to the spirit vs. the letter. You are very proficient in comparing letter to letter. But 2 Cor 3 shows the spirit to be far exceeding in benefit. "Who also hath made us able ministers of the new testament; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life. But if the ministration of death, written and engraven in stones, was glorious, so that the children of Israel could not stedfastly behold the face of Moses for the glory of his countenance; which glory was to be done away: How shall not the ministration of the spirit be rather glorious?" 2 Corinthians 3:6-8 And that ministration of death was the written letter. If you say it was just the law, I say that Jesus, the author and finisher of faith, lumped more than that into "Law": " Jesus answered them, Is it not written in your law, I said, Ye are gods?" John 10:34 Here He is quoting Psalms and calling it your law (to the Jews). Christ's Law is not written in stone, in letter, but comes by the Spirit of God (which the Israelites, in their hardness of heart, rejected for centuries). Your posts are fine as far as the letter goes, but they miss life - they miss the full Spirit of Christ. That is how people may know we know Him. That is what causes men to see our good works and glorify our Father who is in Heaven. | ||
| Anonymous |
to guest ace: thank you so much for your very fine words. kate to the general popultion. am in contact with rita bryant and she loves her son dearly, dearly. she is waiting for him as is his dear wife and baby girl. | ||
| Anonymous |
Guest Ace you say it very well. I agree completely with what you said. As for me, this is also the last time I am postiing here. I have had it. I think Al Soto said it right in one of his posts Proverbs14:7 Go from the presence of a foolish man. So I am getting out of his presence. Sorry Guest Ace, I just can't be as nice as you are. I'll keep trying though. Kate God bless you and Rita. I hope she gets her son back. | ||
| Anonymous |
bye anonymous: al soto probably cant take all these niceities so we may all be gone soon. see ya later. kate still talking to rita, very nice person. You can tell she is a serious thinker and a caring person. Pray for Casey, his Mother and Father are waiting and trusting God for his safe return. And his wife loves him and is going to be here for him. Casey must be a truly special person, it sounds like a spiritual warfare for his body, soul and spirit is going on full fledged at this very moment..and Gods Army will win every time. Lets just believe that the ArchAngel Michael will carry Casey home soon! Bye! | ||
| Guest Ace |
To All.... Just to clarify, there is no righteousness ANYONE can have apart from Jesus Christ. It is only His righteousness that can present us blameless before the throne of God. So it is that we are to strive for the truth - with the Spirit of Jesus Christ. And that can only be done by knowing Him. There will always be many groups clamoring that they have the truth. Some of them very well may. But the only way one can know the truth is through Jesus Christ. And then THE TRUTH will set you free. So all these men that this group challenges have to answer for the untruths they teach, but by judging the men, groups heap judgement on themselves. Only by following Christ's example are we able to receive truth. And it was He who said : "But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" Matthew 5:44 and " But so shall it not be among you: but whosoever will be great among you, shall be your minister: And whosoever of you will be the chiefest, shall be servant of all. For even the Son of man came not to be ministered unto, but to minister, and to give his life a ransom for many." Mark 10:43-45 The heart of Jesus Christ is that of a servant. Doing God's will. Don't heap loads of burden on other people by condemning them where you see them going wrong, but in all things: " Brethren, if a man be overtaken in a fault, ye which are spiritual, restore such an one in the spirit of meekness; considering thyself, lest thou also be tempted. Bear ye one another's burdens, and so fulfil the law of Christ." Galatians 6:1,2 | ||
| Anonymous |
Guest Ace: Thank You, Kate | ||
| Anonymous |
you know, there is every possibility that Casey has not been brainwashed. | ||
| Anonymous |
I am praying for you to go home Casey Bryant to your family. kate | ||
| Anonymous |
To Darvan Fish THERE IS NO HELL WITH FIRE AND BRIMSTONE, WHERE PEOPLE ARE GOING TO BURN FOR ETERNITY SO YOU LITTLE BUGGERS SHOULD NOT BE SO PESKY . SINCE YOUR HATE FILLED EVERYBODY GOING TO HELL BUT YOU AND THE SOTO FELLOW MESSAGE IS IRREVANT, MEANINGLESS, OUT OF TOUCH WITH REALITY, WASTING YOUR TIME, THE PICKETING ET AL, LAME BUNCH OF IDIOTS. GET A PSYCH AND HOPEFULLY HE WILL HELP YOU, PROBABLY HATE YOUR FATHER AND MOTHER TYPE THING, DONT YOU THINK? SURELY ONES WOULD FEEL VERY INSECURE TO PREACH THIS SORT OF JARGEN TO ANYONE AND EXPECT THE RESPECT OF CHRISTIANS. BOSWELL | ||
| Anonymous |
There will be a lake of fire for Satan and his demons. Also for the people who have rejected God's gift of salvation. Jesus his son who died for our sins so that we might be saved. But the way Darwin Fish and his group speaks not many people will respect them or listen to them. Because of this, many people who might have excepted the gospel will mock it and turn away. Just because the bible was written so long ago does not mean it can't be applied to today. The people who say this either hasn't read it or has read it but does not understand it. It does not limit the amount of fun or adventure you can have as a many people think. It tells you that before a holy God we are all sinners. People in the biblical times had to sacrifice animals for their sins. But God is so wonderful he stopped that and sent his son to die for us instead. Jesus has wiped our sins out and we stand blameless in front of a holy God. All you have to do is believe that in your heart and confess with your mouth and you will be saved. It's not hard at all. I hope even those of you who don't belive will at least think about it. | ||
| Anonymous |
You are a crazy bigot with too much idle time to spend bothering your fellow people with very paranoid ideas. Please accept my humble suggestion: Try fo find a community based program that may give you the opportunity to become a helpful member of society. Work for sometime helping others and stop reading your freaking bible that way or you are going to end up being institutionalized as a hopeless psychotic. | ||
| Anonymous |
ANONYMOUS ONE; YOU HAVE A GODLY SPIRIT, I FEEL IT AND KNOW THAT YOU ARE SINCERE. GOD BLESS YOU. IF YOU ARE KATE, LOVE, THEN YOU ARE ADORABLE, IF NOT A TWIT. IF THE BOY GOES HOME BEFORE ITS HIS TIME, IT WILL BE WITH A CHIP ON HIS SHOULDER AND A FISH IN HIS BAG. LET HIM ROT FOR AWHILE IN THE WILDERNESS. AGAIN, GOD BLESS AND REMEMBER, THIS IS THE OLD USA WHERE FREEDOM OF SPEECH IS SO WONDERFUL, NOW GOODBYE TO YU, MY DEAR. ANONYMOUS TWO: I SMELL FISH! STINKY FISH. SO, FISH, LETS MEET AT DUSK TOMORROW EVENING WITH SWORDS IN HAND. YOU GIVE ME A HELL SCRIPTURE AND I WILL TAKE THE SCALES OFF AND TOSS THEM TO SOTO FOR BAIT. SO , ARE YOU ON? TO CASEY BRYANT, THE WONDER BOY. I HAVE , YOUNG FELLOW HAVE OUGHT WITH YOU. THERE IS SIN IN YOUR LIFE. YES, IT WAS, INDEED A SIN TO MOVE WITH YOUR FELLOW FRIENDS AND LEAVE THE CHILD. YOU HAVE OFFENDED THE YOUNG CHILD. WHAT DOES THE WORD SAY ABOUT OFFENDING A LITTLE ONE, BETTER THAN A MILSTONE ROUND HIS NECK, OR MABYE IN FISHTOWN, YOU MIGHT BURN CRISPY CRITTERS. SO, YOUNG MAN, THE CHILD CANNOT SPEAK FOR THEIRSELF. I HAVE BECOME THE SPOKESPERSON, THE CHILD IS OFFENDED BY YOUR ABANDAMENT. GOD IS OFFENDED THEREFORE. THEREFORE, YOU ARE IN ERROR AND IN YOUR COMMANDER IN CHIEFS OPINION, THATS A BAD PLACE TO BE. COURSE YOU KNOW THE WIFE, CANT SPEAK FOR HER, BUT READ THAT FISHMEN SAID SHE WAS HMMM BAD. TRUE, CASEY, TRUE? COME ON, LITTLE FISHEY, TAKE MY BAIT....OR ARE YOU A COWARD AND ARE THEY LIARS ABOUT YOUR WIFE? | ||
| Anonymous |
Still, it would be very nice if you could become able to set all that energy in something really useful that could benefit your community and give you back the feeling of belonging to a common reality. As it is now, you are repeating empty messages that don't change anything because you aren't changing either. On the day the Savior comes to take with him his flock from among us, he will certainly reject to acknowledge having ever met you, because with your mouth you repeated a worthless mantra that wasn't demonstrated in your actions. You can talk about flower power all you can and still your words will sound like empty vessels because you are a liar. Liying to yourself all the time in front of a computer screen. Hidden from the most devastating reality that you cannot face because it terrifies you: Your heart has turned so evil that only through maniac repetition of mantras that won't convince a soul around you, because you are not convincing at all. And, you may write even longer messages ten times a day, but nobody will be moved by your emptiness that has already surrounded your soul with devastating consequences. You can lie to yourself, but you won't be able to lie to the Force that observes your actions. You may try with all your energy to convince others of your litany of salvation but deep inside you know that you did not convince anyone around you because you are emptiness filled with desperation and bible texts that don't help you find peace. | ||
| Anonymous |
To the post that said "You are a crazy bigot". I am far from crazy and I am certainly no bigot. If you knew even a little bit about me you would know that. To say that about someone you have never met is a little foolish I think. I believe that Christ died for me and because I do, I tell others. No one is making you believe anything. No one is trying to make you accept anything. You can choose what ever you like. You were given freedom of choice by God. But because this is a public board and I am part of the public, I think I have the right to post whatever and whenever I like. Oh and just fyi I am a professional in an field that helps others and I am a productive and sane member of society. What do you do besides verbally attacking someone just because they believe in God? | ||
| Anonymous |
ANONYMOUS ONE; ARE YOU A MEMBER OF FISH GROUP? ANONYOUS TWO; ARE YOU A MEMBER OF FISH GROUP? I AM ONLY BAITING FISH AND SOTO..THEY SEEM TO BE OFF THE WIRE....I WONDER THOUGH, FREAKING BIBLE, THAT MIGHT BE, PROBABLY TOO MUCH BEER AND SMOKING THIS WEEKEND, THEY DO DRINK AND SMOKE YOU KNOW, NASTY HABITS.... IF YOU TWO TELL ME YOU ARE NOT FISHITES I WILL VANISH...BOSWELL | ||
| Anonymous |
hi, this is Kate. Amazing! I wonder who will join next. Where is No Deceit, thought he would love to do battle with Bosell. well, i am still talking with Cseys Mother Rita Bryant and she is so nice and so spiritualy on. I just want us all to stay on the subject , Casey being taken from a crowd gathered for the wonderful and precious man of God, Billy Graham. He stopped to object to their ideas about Billy Graham and they , as Rita said, snared him into their group. He left his wife and baby and now lives somewhere in bakersfield and is under the thumb of Darwin Fish and Al Soto. I dont know if hes been brainwashed or not, but it seems to me any man that would bring the goup of men to Fresno and load up Casey and his wifes houseful stuff, including fridge and food and leave the wife with her personal items and thirty dollars must need spiritual counseling. She went to her Mothers house , where they have no money and no work nor car. The wife only gets to go somewhere at the mercy of others.. It is so sad, this woman waiting with love for this man , and he does not see the baby every night, sometimes only once every two weeks. Rita does not say if he pays child support but I hope so. Its just not right, not right. Why does Caseys Pastor Fish not tell him to stay with his family. I talk to Rita a lot, she says that Casey expects her to move there. But he told her she could have no friends but his and his group , Fish told her she could not come there. Also, she cannot talk to Rita or relatives, except her Mom and Dad. She cant have television or photos on wall, has to eat a certain way, said he would watch what she ate and how much when she was pregnant. I dont know, sounds pretty cult like to me, if hes listening to Fish on all this. Well, talking to Rita is much more sprit filled than these people , so then i will take a couple days off. Just wanted the general public to know I personally think that Fishes group is a cult. | ||
| Anonymous |
AH, THERE GOES THAT KATE AGAIN. QUESTION FOR NO DECEIT NO DECEIT. A THREE YEAR OLD GIRL NAMED TAMMY WAS LEFT ORPHANED AND PUT IN HER UNCLE AND AUNTS CARE WITH THEIR TWO SONS. UNCLE BILL MOLESTS THE CHILD FROM THREE YEARS OLD TILL AGE TWELVE AS WELL AS HIS SONS, THE AUNT KNOWS BUT TURNS HER EYE AND EAR. TAMMY FINALLY RUNS OFF TO THE STREET AT TWELVE AND BEGINS TO SELL HER BODY FOR DRUGS ND FOOD. SHE GOES FROM ONE SHELTER TO NEXT AND TURNS FOURTEEN AND LOOKS THIRTY, HER BODY TORN AND RAVISHED SINCE AGE THREE. TAMMY SEES AT ONE OF THE SHELTERS A SIGN SAYING, BILLY GRAHAM NOW AT CONFERENCE CENTER, COME, AND HE WILL GIVE YOU HIS MESSAGE OF HOPE. TAMMY WALKS THE WHOLE WAY AND WHEN THE MESSAGE IS GIVEN AND THE GRAHAM CALLS THE PEOPLE DOWN FOR THE ALTER CALL, TAMMY IS OUT OF HER SEAT AND RUNNING. SHE GIVES HER WHOLE LIFE OVER TO GOD, REPENTS OF HER SIN. THAT EVENING SHE IS SENT TO A REHABILITATION CENTER AND BEGINS THERAPY. THE NEXT DAY, TAMMY IS TAKEN BY CENTER BUS TO DOCTOR FOR CHECKUP. ON THE WAY, THE BUS IS HIT BY TRAIN. QUESTION TO NO DECEIT. WILL TAMMY GO TO HEAVEN OR HELL? JUST OLE BOSWELL OUT HERE WANTING A GOOD FIGHT WITH THOSE FISH CLAN. | ||
| Jean-Paul |
you're all crazy | ||
| Anonymous |
AH, THE WHOLESOME JEAN PAUL, ARE YOU A FISH EGG, JUST WANT TO FRY FISH, THATS ALL.....AT LEAST YOU HAVE A COMMENT, SEEMS OLD FISH IS THE COWARD AFTER ALL..UNLESS HE CHANGED HIS NAME TO JEAN PAUL, I NOTICE, LIKE MYSELF, YOU REMAIN ANONYMOUS. IF MY NAME WRE DARVAN FISH, I WOULD TAKE A NICE NAME LIKE JEAN PAUL TOO. ME, BOSWELL SEEMS RIGHT AT THE MOMENT. NO COMMENTS NEEDED, CRAZY IS ENOUGH, BUT ARENT WE CHASING THE CRAZIES IN THE CULTS AFTER ALL. MAYBE IT TAKES A NUT TO CRACK A NUT. SOTO, SOUNDS LIKE A NAME HE PICKED BECAUSE HES PUNIE AND CUTE AND A WANNA BE BIG SOTO. I THINK I WILL GO TALK TO SOTO THE HALF FISH ON HIS LINE. HE WILL KNOW WHO I AM WHEN HE SEES MY WEB SITE AND THEN HE WILL HAVE A BIG LAUGH, STILL THE SAME OLE SOTO PROBABLY, THROWING THAT PRETTY WIFE OUT THE BACK DOOR , STAYING IN FRONT OF HIS OWN LITTLE COMPUTER, BRINGING IN THOSE BUCKS TO BUILD FISH HOME, IS THAT A LEGAL HOME OUT THERE BY THE WAY, BE CAREFUL ALL YE PEOPLE, THEY HAVENET ELECTRICITY BUT THEY DO HAVE GUNS AND AMMO...AND I KNOW LOTS MORE, SO FISH AND SOTO, DOES TAMMY GO TO HAVEN OR HELL ACCORDING TO THE WORD OF FSIHMOUTH. ANOTHER QUESTION: A FISHETTE, THATS A CULT PERSON IN THE FISH GROUP FOR ALL THATS WATCHING, SINS. HE REPENTS. THEY WEEP AND CRY AND WEEP AND CRY. BUT THEN THEY CATCH HIM , AH, SINNING AGAIN, LIKE TELLING A LIE, NOT A SEX SIN, DONT KNOW IF THEY HAVE MANY OF THOSE, I HEAR THEY ARE WANTING MORE WIVES IF IT WERE LEGAL, MIND YOU...SO THIS BLOKE LIES AND HAS ALREADY REPNENTED. ACCORDING TO FISHITTES, THIS GUY IS DONE IN. HES OFF TO HELL. ONCE FISH SAYS HES DONE , ACCORDING TO HIS WORD, HES BURNING. RIGHT, FISH AND THAT POOR LITTLE LAMB, TAMMY , THAT GOT SAVED AND REPENTED AND THEN KILLED THE NEXT DAY, WHY, ACCORDING O THE WORD OF THE FISH CULT, SHE BURNING FOR AN ETERNITY, FLAMES LEAPING AT HER DAY AND NIGHT. THERE IS NO WAY SHE COULD HAVE BEEN SAVED AT THE BILLY GRAHAM CRUSADE. SHES DEAD MEAT. THATS IT. THERES NOT MANY GOING TO HEAVEN ACCORDING TO FISH. HOPE HIS ELEVEN CHILDREN DONT MESS UP TO BAD. DID I HEAR HE KICKED HIS MOTHER OUT OF HIS BAND OF ANGELS. MERCY, WHAT DID DADDY SAY? FISH, SOTO, STEP UP TO THE PLATE, YOU COWARDLY SNAKES IN THE GRASS WITH YOUR POISON VENOM SENDING HATRED AND HELL TO EVERYONE WHO DOES NOT BELIEVE ANYTHING YOU SAY. WANNA KNOW WHO THIS IS, BE RIGHT THERE IN ABOUT FOUR HOURS. LET YOU WAIT UNTIL THEN. BOSSIE | ||
| Rita Bryant |
Yes, there are alot of crazies out there. First, Mr. Soto, you need to be corrected on your manners. "Mam and hey, Rita" are definitely an impolite way to address a person you know for a fact to be the mother of one of your members. Shame on you! For those who may not have gone to this group's site, I would like to post a few quotes from there, from a tape, and talk about what I've seen and heard. On reading these quotes, I warned my daughter-in-law. Please, don't put yourself and the baby in this situation. I feared for their well being, physically and emotionally. We also tried to warn our son. Quote: " The reason women EVEN EXIST is not so that they can be independent entities. The reason they EXIST is so that they can help men." (Emphasis mine.) Quote: "...it doesn't matter if the husband is a believer or not (1Peter 3:1). The wife is still to submit to him, even if he BEATS her." (Emphasis mine.) If a man in GWF has a daughter and he does not want her to get married, then she is to obey him, stay in his house, under his authority. I guess until he dies or she dies. After all, she EXISTS to "help" her father or husband. (Other men? I don't know.) Of course, they believe a woman should remain silent until a man gives them permission to speak. A woman should have as many babies as "God" would give them. They should have these babies at home. Doctors are frowned upon. In infants, the first signs of them having a temper, then it's time to bring out the rod. Start as early as possible with the rod because all babies are evil little hearts from the get go. Clothing that allows quick access to the baby's bottom is also recommended. A woman will breastfeed. If the baby isn't doing well feeding, the woman will get a call to tell her that she's wicked for not eating right and instructions on how to correct it. The baby doesn't need to see a doctor. Children are home schooled and parents are never to use a baby sitter. Children are not to have toys like stuffed animals, etc. because they are a lie. Bears aren't pink, dogs don't talk, etc. Children are not to have pictures of these lies on their clothing. A family should not have decorations on the walls of their home. Scripture written on pieces of paper and taped to the walls is fine, though. If a woman does not "obey" these commands and others, she is no better than a witch is and she is an abomination to God. She is wicked and on her way to hell. A father and mother should sleep in the same room as all their children. No matter how many. No matter what their ages. Do you have upaid debt? Better pay it how and when Darwin Fish says. Darwin Fish, on a member who has neglected to pay on his debt. "I am convinced, with all my heart, if you died today, you'd go to hell. I'm convinced. No doubt in my mind, whatsoever. None." MEMBER: "So then, I couldn't get saved until I could repay them somehow. They're closed on Sunday, so I couldn't even get saved today..." Darwin Fish: "...you know what? There is no tomorrow for you. Hell, if you died today, that's where you'd go. I'm convinced. Anyone here have any doubt on this?" This member was kicked out of GWF. (Quotes from tape dated 4-29-00) GWF has, at least on one occasion, convinced a new member that if they don't fellowship with this group, they will go to hell. This new member has in turn, informed all family and friends that if they don't believe exactly as GWF, on every single issue to be found in the bible, then they are going to hell. This member believes this to be true...God will burn him forever if he leaves GWF. So, mind control? Brainwashing? Control through guilt? You bet! Control through fear? Excessive control of personal lives? Destroyer of families? You bet! Is this group dangerous? Is this group a cult? From what I've read, seen, and heard, yes. BEWARE! | ||
| Anonymous |
To Boswell I am the post that directed my post to "You are a crazy bigot". I do believe in God first and foremost but I am not nor will I ever be a member of The True Church. I don't agree with what it teaches or the way it teaches. It is a cult. If good old Al Soto was here he would have a field day with your posts. You would be in hell quicker than you could say it. What is your website? I like your sense of humor. To Rita, I am very sorry all of this has happened to you and your family. I do pray that one day your son will be able to see he has been taught lies and come home to his family. Don't loose heart and don't stop praying. Anyone seeing what you posted about this group can't deny it's a cult. One thing you posted earlier was not to argue with AL Soto or anyone from the group. You were right, I see it was like beating a dead horse. | ||
| Jean-Paul |
I think that all right-minded people can agree that Darwin Fish is not a healthy spiritual choice. All the arguments for and against that idea are hereby documented, both in evidences and in arguments. I see nothing else to be said here. I see no reason for anything other than additional evidences of a personal nature that speak to the nature of this group to appear on this board. Let's move on. There is, in fact, another group that deserves the excessive attention that has been enjoyed by this one: Family Harvest Church (also on this board). p.s. let's cool it on the self-righteousness, alright? | ||
| Anonymous |
Jean Paul for your future information, not all Christians are self righteous. Just like not all non Christians are self righteous. Just because a person follows the teachings of Christ and speak of the teachings it does not mean they are being "holier than thou". A lot of people have the wrong idea about that. You are not the first person I have heard say that. I never feel like I am better or more special than anyone else. I only speak what I our Lord has said. If your boss told you to tell the other employees not to sit on the tables in the office for example, If you told them,it would not make you self righteous or bossy. You would only be doing what your boss told you to do. So even though I am speaking about God, I don't mean to sound self righteous. From your posts you don't sound like you think much of the bible but I do. So instead of saying a person is self righteous when they speak of the bible just give the person the benefit of the doubt and the same respect you would give anyone else. | ||
| Anonymous |
P.S When you are posting on a forum about a particular church being a cult, you know that the bible is bound to come up sometime in the conversation. | ||
| Anonymous |
Hello everyone. I agree that the Bible and different beliefs will come up even though we are talking about he subject cults. We do get carried away with our personal beliefs which maybe we should set aside to help others. Cults are a horrible thing, i think from reading Rita Bryants letter that her son is definitely in trouble. anonymous | ||
| Jean-Paul |
If you look closely, you will understand that I was objecting to the language in which one states their belief in the Christian god; I was not criticizing a basal belief in Christianity. Some people on this site come across sounding as though a loud booming voice out of the sky told them to post here. That kind of rhetoric is not only annoying, but counterproductive to the purpose of this site. I'm sorry if you were offended. However, let's not get into an argument over this, alright? Just accept my apology and move on. p.s. and if anyone has any bible quotes about loud booming voices in the sky, or anything like that, please keep them to yourself for I will not respond to them. | ||
| Anonymous |
Well Jean-Paul, you are certainly a little self righteous yourself, feeling you have all the answers. It seems like you would tend to say all churches are cults, is tht right, except perhaps the one you go to, by the way do you have a personal belief in God.You would have us all seeking out the cultish attitudes in every Christian organization. Do you have a personal story about a cult situation, are you writing a book, are you trying to help people, whats the deal. Sam Shields, UPC | ||
| Anonymous |
I'm curious about that myself. Are you a Christian Jean Paul? Have you or someone you know been in a cult??? Are you a moderator here? You seem to like to take control of the board. Is your job to keep everyone on the subject? | ||
| Anonymous |
anonymous to Jean=Paul, i too wonder what part you play, too evasive. | ||
| Anonymous |
Hello, what ever happened to Darwin Fish and Al Soto and Rita Bryants child. where is truedeciet, he didnot say they did not beat chkldren and wifes. seemslike they got scared when they got some alligatins theywere not ready to defend theirselves. i came on herer because inheard aboutthis, from freind, josh | ||
| No Deceit |
Mrs Rita Bryant, blasphemer I really fear for your soul because your post blasphemes the truth of God. It amazes me, Mam, that you turn a statement of fact and truth (women are to suffer unto death, as ALL Christians are called to do) into a suggestion, that we teach our men to beat their wives. Please read the following verse: 1 Peter 2: 18 Servants, be **submissive** to your masters with all fear, not only to the good and gentle, **but also to the harsh.** 19For this is commendable, if because of conscience toward God one endures grief, suffering wrongfully. 20For what credit is it if, when you are **beaten** for your faults, you take it patiently? But when you do good and suffer, if you take it patiently, this is commendable before God. 21**For to this you were called, because Christ also suffered for us,[6] leaving us[7] an example, that you should follow His steps** The Apostle Peter teaches that we are to follow in Christ's steps Who suffered for us and we therefore are to be ready to suffer likewise. Peter in the same breath teaches women to likwise (in like manner of what I just taught servents to be submissive as) be submissive to their husbands. 1 Peter 3 1 Wives, likewise, be submissive to your own husbands, that even if some do not obey the word, they, without a word, may be won by the conduct of their wives. . . A woman of faith can win a wicked man, even one who beats her, to Christ. If she dies in the process, she gains eternity. Note, I said a WICKED man, not a saved man, but an unbeliever. Our men are taught to lay down their lives for their wives, to love them as Christ loved the church, and to dwell with them with understanding. Mam, you then have the audacity to speak evil of the Apostle Paul when you defame him for stating a fact about the creation of women. 1 Corinthians 11: 8For man is not from woman, but woman from man. 9Nor was man created for the woman, but woman for the man. Simple statement, but you Mam, speak evil of this fact. Why? Because you are a wicked and rebellious woman. Mrs. Rita Bryant states, "If a man in GWF has a daughter and he does not want her to get married, then she is to obey him, stay in his house, under his authority. I guess until he dies or she dies. After all, she EXISTS to "help" her father or husband. (Other men? I don't know.) Of course, they believe a woman should remain silent until a man gives them permission to speak." Yes a godly man in A True Church may choose to keep his virgin a virgin. Once again you speak evil of the truth of God. 1 Corinthians 7: 37Nevertheless he who stands steadfast in his heart, having no necessity, but has power over his own will, and has so determined in his heart that he will keep his virgin,[2] does well. 38So then he who gives her[3] in marriage does well, but he who does not give her in marriage does better. I do not know if I should laugh or cry. Your statements are so blantanly false and evil. Yes, we believe women are to be silent in church. You know why? 1 Corinthians 14 34Let your[1] women keep silent in the churches, for they are not permitted to speak; but they are to be submissive, as the law also says. 35And if they want to learn something, let them ask their own husbands at home; for it is shameful for women to speak in church. Yes, we believe children are a blessing, and, "Happy is the man who has his quiver full of them; They shall not be ashamed, But shall speak with their enemies in the gate."(Psalm 127:5) No shame for us to believe this. Babies at home- I have three children and they have all been born at the hospital. Doctors have been a blessing to me and my family. Come to think of it, only the Fish family has had their children at home. Yes, our women breast feed. . .so? As to eating foods and all that you can talk to Casey and Deserie about that. Yes, we homeschool our children. Praise God! Need we even have to go there? My child won't be taught the homosexual way and "evil"loution. My kids have many stuffed animals. Uhh, dogs don't talk...Mrs Bryant, do I need to prove this to you? Decorations on the wall? Uhh, we are not Muslim. I have lot of decorations on our walls. You state, "If a woman does not "obey" these commands and others, she is no better than a witch is and she is an abomination to God. She is wicked and on her way to hell." The only commands she is to obey are those taught in Scripture. And I believe I made it clear which ones are commands of God and which ones are not. My girls sleep in their own room. Our baby is the only one who sleeps with my wife and I. Yes, Debt is to be paid back, and A.S.A.P. Why? Psalm 37:21 The wicked borrows and does not repay, But the righteous shows mercy and gives. and Romans 13: 7Render therefore to all their due: taxes to whom taxes are due, customs to whom customs, fear to whom fear, honor to whom honor. (1) 8 Owe no one anything except to love one another, for he who loves another has fulfilled the law. The man you refer to (who was a wicked man who did not repay) was not kicked out of the church, but confronted with his sin, he supposedly repented. This man continued in his wicked ways and left the church. He was never kicked out of the church as you state. Once more Mrs. Bryant you speak evil of Scripture. Most debt is ungodly. We do not believe that you must fellowship with us to be saved. We do believe that you must have the same mind, same judgment, in regards to what the Bible teaches. 1 Corinthians 1 10 Now I plead with you, brethren, by the name of our Lord Jesus Christ, that you all speak the same thing, and that there be no divisions among you, but that you be perfectly joined together in the same mind and in the same judgment. Yes, if you do not believe like we do and follow our doctrine you can not be saved. 1 John 4 6We are of God. He who knows God hears us; he who is not of God does not hear us. By this we know the spirit of truth and the spirit of error. Our doctrine is the same doctrine that Christ preached through His Holy word. Mrs Rita Bryant, take heed to the truth, repent from your evil, repent from your hate and come to the knowledge of truth. Don't despise the good things of God and do not rely on your own understanding. . .that is folly. I do thank you for your posts, because I plan to read them to my children along with my response. I thank you for the blessings bestowed on us. It is an honor to partake in the sufferings of Christ. In His love, al soto | ||
| No Deceit |
Sorry, I misspelled Ma'am. al | ||
| Anonymous |
Deceit: u no, u never answered questions, u r the coward l. do you believe and pratice spanking babies seven months old. Do you keep the spanking area in clothing that makes it more available to spanking. 1. did u throw your own wife out back door. 2. does Darwin fish speak for himself or u are it. 3. are there weapons at Darwin fishes and u house? 4. did you call bryants wife a whore? if so, is she a whore? 5. are you Jean-Paul? 6.How can u slander Mrs.Bryant like that without her son getting angry.Is he on web, can we talk to him or is he prisoner. 7.has your leader had cps cllled on him for child abuse. I have read all the posts about this and I think you are attacking because you are afraid. Afraid of the truth, afraid that u can c people are arriving at truth.You seem to have it in for women, u better be glad u r not around my house, i would pray to God to cast demons from u. You r possessed by hatred, doubt about yourself and fear that u cant b in control. Wheres darwin fish, doesnt he have a mouth. 5.does darvin fish sleep with his nine kids in one room. is that lie? 6.does darvin fish believe in having more wives if legal. u know, you sling your crap all over the web, misquoting scriptures out of contest, like the ones above.why dont you really study your bible instead of Darvin Fsh. You r putting a man before God and you will Burn. Repent of calling that woman a whore or prove it. wheres her husband, let him type in , my wife is a whore. u are sick and perverted . answer the questions posts have asked or stay coward, with the hiding fish. Josh and Anthony and Brittany, our mom wanted us to read your posts to show how Satan works in peoples lives and we read all above post too. and we believe u are wicked and hate women,we dontknwo about men. | ||
| No Deceit |
I am waiting for Mrs. Bryant's response. Thank you. al | ||
| Anonymous |
Anonymous: Why would Mrs. Bryant have to respond to a total jerk like you al soto. Your post speaks for itself, you can smell the hate over the website, you are in the wrong. You need to repent of a lot of things. You need to answer questions that are asked, coward? You are a coward, and Darwin Fish. You dont answer questions, just want to call names, like blasphamer? Really, lets hear it for the great al soto Christianity, and where is the almighty Darwin Fish? People, do not be deceived by these devils. If they are as horrid as they sound, I beg God for mercy for their souls. | ||
| Anonymous |
TO THE POST ABOVE I TOTALLY AGREE. I WANT TO KNOW WHAT BUSINESS AL SOTO HAS SENDING PEOPLE TO HELL AND THE NAME CALLING. WHY IS HE SO BENT ON BEING SO MEAN IF THE SON IS GONE TO THE CULT. IS IT A TEST FOR THE SON, DOES HE HAVE TO READ THESE BAD POSTS ABOUT HIS MOTHER AND DO WHAT? SHOULD YOU NOT TELL HIM TO HONOR HIS MOTHER AND FATHER AS THE BIBLE SAYS? WHAT ABOUT THE SON? IS HE OK, IS HE HEALTHY, IS HE BEING TREATED PROPERLY, HOWEVER CULTS TREAT PEOPLE. MRS BRYANT, I AM PRAYING FOR YOUR SONS SAFE RETURN, PHYSICALLY AND MENTALLY. HANG IN THERE, THERES A LOT OF PEOPLE ON YOUR SIDE, ON GODS SIDE. MY FRIENDS AND CHURCH MEMBERS WILL BE HEARING ABOUT THIS AND I HOPE THEY ALL PASS THE WORD ABOUT DARWIN FISH AND AL SOTO. ALSO, YOU PEOPLE NEED TO SEND MRS BRYANTS SON HOME. A MOM | ||
| Anonymous |
I agree completely with the previous posts. Good ol Al, I knew you would be back. It was only a matter of time. You don't seem to have a very high opinion of women do you? How can you say the things you say to the mother of one of your members and still look him in the eye. And your little interpretation of scripture caught my eye. It always amazes me how you can twist scripture to suit you. You said a woman of faith can win a wicked man even one who beats her, to Christ. If she dies in the process, she gains eternity. Duh!!! If she is a woman of faith she gains eternity anyway. I wouldn't stick around and allow someone to beat me to death. I don't think the Lord would want that either. Oh and I'll give you a choice, take your pick. 1 I fear for your soul 2 You blaspheme the word of God 3 Repent 4 You evil witch. There, I think I made it easy for you to answer me. | ||
| Anonymous |
to the above anonymous: Great, wonderful choice of words, i always get so carried away with my vocab. I love it. Isnt it amazing how Soto is as cunning as a serpent when answering questions about child abuse and other specifics. He really never has made his clear statement on believing that Jesus Christ is the only son of God, I fear for their commune, i am beginning to believe that Fish might be elected as Apostle or Messiah at any time now. Those poor children down there, raised in that atmosphere, and the persons in the cult. How will they ever escape Fishes and Sotos lies. How! Anon | ||
| Anonymous |
SEND CASEY BRYANT HOME, EVERYONE OUT THERE, TYPE IT IN, SEND CASEY BRYANT HOME, SEND CASEY BRYANT HOME, HE BELONGS TO CHRIST, HE HAS BEEN LED ASTRAY. THIS IS SPIRITUAL WARFARE, PRAY FOR CASEY BRYANT, TWENTY YEARS OLD WITH LOVING WIFE AND CHILD. FRIENDS ALL WAITING, CHRISTIAN FREINDS, MOM AND DAD AND FAMILY MEMBERS ALL PRAYING FOR HIS SAFE RELEASE. SEND CASEY HOME, WE WILL NEVER GIVE UP. AT YOUR NEXT MEETING, PROMISE KEEPERS, WE MIGHT SHAKE YOUR HAND, SMILE AT YOU, WE WILL BE PRAYING FOR YOU WITH HANDS LAID ON YOU FOR GODS HOLY SPIRIT TO FREE YOU FROM SATANS HOLD ON YOU. AND YOU CAN CALL ME ANYTHING YOU WANT, JUST SEND THAT YOUNG MAN HOME. FRIEND OF CASEY | ||
| Anonymous |
DARWIN FISH IS A COWARD, A BLASPHAMER OF GODS WORD AND HE WILL BURN IN HELL.REPENT DARWIN FISH, SIDEKICKS ALSOTO. YOU WILL BE BURNING IN THE LAKE OF FIRE FOREVER AND EVER AND EVER, EVERLASTING TORMENT, YOU DEMONS, I CALL UPON THE NAME OF JESUS TO TAKE YOU ALL OUT OF THAT COMPOUND SPIRITUALLY, WE FEAR FOR YOUR CHILDREN AND WOMEN. FRIENDS OF CASEY BRYANTS, SEND CASEY HOME | ||
| Anonymous |
to the above two postings. i have already sent Billy Graham many of the posts and they have replied, also big churches in san jose and sf. they know about fish and have his organ on file. Lets start a prayer chain for Casey Bryant. Everyone reading this please email 10 churches in the yellow pages or your church or christians to have special prayer for Casey Bryant tomorrow, and then add him to their weekly prayer list and daily prayer lists. Also, if someone wants to fast for him, that would be good. We have to fight spiritually, so get on your computers now. Just simply please put a young man named Casey Bryant on your prayer list tomorrow, try to announce it from pulpits all over Califonia, ask that God return Casey Bryant home. And tell them about the website so that they can warm their loved ones. Please, get on those computers and get those churches and pastors and people notified today. Lets Roll!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
Hello, i am not able to contact ten churches but will ask for special prayer for Bryants family. Mr. Al Soto: Why cant this man Casey live with his wife and come there for church. Does he have to live there to belong to Darwins group. If you are interested in keeping the wife in the picture, are you telling him he could be an example by his love by living with her. Do you think he has done a good thing leaving her and her baby? Does Darvin Fish endorse this moving away from the wife. A Mom and Dad just watching because we were asked to look at website. Are we getting correct story, that Casey Bryant had to move there? | ||
| Anonymous |
NEW MESSIAH HERE; BAKERSFIELD, DARWN FISH CLAIMS TO BE SAVIOR IS THIS GOING TO BE A HEADLINE IN TEN YEARS, BEWARE OF SATAN! | ||
| Anonymous |
SALVATION THRU AL SOTO, RESSURECTED JOHN THE BAPTIST HE CLAIMS! MAYBE THIS WILL ALSO BE A HEADLINE IN TEN YEARS. PEOPLE BEWARE! PRAY THAT YOU DONT FALL INTO THE HANDS OF THESE EVIL CULT PERSONS. THEY HAVE COMPOUND OUTSIDE BAKERSFIELD. SAVE YOUR CHILDREN FROM THE FUTURE. GET ON THIS WEBSITE AND TELL THEM TO CLOSE THEIR DOORS AND REPENT OR BURN. | ||
| Anonymous |
Rita you see you do have people praying for you and your family. Things will turn around one day. I know you love Casey and he loves you. Don't worry about anything, the Lord will take care of everything. Contrary to what others may think, he is still in control. I will tell anyone that will listen what this "true church" does to people. | ||
| Anonymous |
To the above message: Thank God for your support, i wish there were some way i knew how to get to you. Bless you! Anonymous friend of Caseys | ||
| Anonymous |
To Al Soto Dont you think it would be nice if we all just cooled down and talked nicely. I looked at your website and read your atticle, God is a man, now I personally just thought it was a different view from mine, i didnt think it was right but its your article. Have you ever been to some of the Binny Hinn meetings or got some books. Hes really helped me in mine life. I know that the Holy Ghost can bring us all together in His great love, no matter what we believe aside from personal views of the Bible. Lucinda Jackson | ||
| Anonymous |
YEAH, LETS ALL ROLL!!!!!!!!LETS GO FOR IT AL, LETS GO ROLL WITH BENNY HINN. A FEW OF YOU ALL WITH JIST GET SLAIN IN THE SPIRIT.BOSWELL BACK FOR THE SABBATH | ||
| Anonymous |
Thats rude, above message. Binny Hinn is a wonderful man of God. If these people are really in a cult, they need to receive the gift of the Holy Ghost, laying on of hands and they will be healed. They do not mention in their words anything about that. When they are touched with Gods real spirit, they will be filled with love, and all this will stop. If they speak in their heavenly language, they will know the will of God. Mrs. Jackson | ||
| Anonymous |
AL SOTO,DARWIN FISH, JIMMY SWARRART, MOTEL 7 WIFE SWAPPING......... DEAR MRS JACKSON; THESE PEOPLE WOULD THROW YOU TO THE DOGS, THEY WILL CALL YOU EVIL, ITS JUST AS REASONABLE TO SEE THE ABOVE WORDS ABOUT MOTEL SEVEN AS IT WOULD FOR TEM TO ACCEPT ANYTHING TO READ LIKE YOURS. YOU HAVE A RIGHT TO YOUR BEIEFS, I AM NOT AGAINST YOU, I AM IN SPIRITUAL WARFARE FOR WITH FISHY, AND DESOTO AND DAVID, JUST SAW THEM AND HEARD THEM, ON THE WEB...GO THRERE AND YOU WILL SEE FISH DEMONSTRATING AND PUTTING HIS FACE INTO THAT CAMERA, NOT SHY ARE YE BUDDIE RUFF. BARF! THEN THERES THEIR NEWSEST BABY CONVERT, CASEY , CASEY, CASEY, KC..... HERES A SCRIPTURE FOR YOU IF FISHO WILL LET YOU READ.....HO 1 TIMOTHY 5:8 BUT IF ANY PROVIDE NOT FOR HIS OWN, AND ESPECIALLY FOR THOSE OF HIS OWN HOUSE, HE HATH DENIED THE FAITH , AND IS WORSE THAN AN INFIDEL. ARE YOU, YOUNG MAN, PROVIDING FOR YOUR WIFE AND CHILD YOU LEFT FOR FISHTOWN, CASEY. JUST WONDERING, ANSWER, IF YOU DARE, IF NOT, WE WILL KNOW THE ANSWER. LITTLE FISH, CAN I ASK YOU SOMETHING, DO YOU GET TO READ THE BIBLE SCRIPTURES THAT COME BEFORE AND AFTER DARWINS CHOSEN SCRIPTURE , DOES HE EVEN LET YOU READ WHOLE CHAPTER. I BET YOU GUYS EVEN GIVE YOUR BOYS TAPES TO LISTEN TO IN THEIR SLEEP, GOOD TRAINING OLD MAN SOTO AND FISH. WORKING WHILE YOU SLEEP...FOR SATAN. FISHITES HUNT AND PICK AND CATCH LITTLE FISHIES WTH THEIR MISTERIOUS INTERPETATION OF THE WORD OF GOD. BACK TO FISO, HEY FISH, WHY DONT YOU GIVE THESE PEOPLE YOUR ADDRESS INSTEAD OF PO BOX. AL SOTO, YOU ARE JUST TOOOO SWEET FOR ME, I WOULD RATHER DO WAR WITH BIG FISH, YOU ARE A LITTLE FISH, TOO CHICKEN TO TALK TO ANYONE BUT LITTLE WOMEN LIKE MRS BRYANT . WHY, WE WILL JUST THROW YOU BACK AND WAIT FOR BIGGER FISH TO FRY IN HELL. IF ONE BELIEVED IN HELL. COUURSE YOU WOULD ALL COLLAPSE IF YOU KNEW THE REAL TRUTH ABOUT HELL, THERE WOULDNT BE FISHITES IF NOT FOR HELL. AGAIN, MRS JACKSON, SORRY FOR SNOOPING.....BUT THEY WILL HATE YOU, SO HAVE NO MERCY, PLEASE, BOSSSSSSSSS | ||
| Anonymous |
I am anon: I did go to Darwin Fish website today and I too read some articles. They seem stupid, just plain stupid, how could anyone believe them? Are people actually that immaature spiritually. To the post above, you need your mouth washed out with soap. I am going away. I will ask some churches and friends to pray for Mrs. Bryant. But I am gone. This group is a potental danger if not already. Anon | ||
| Anonymous |
Hi, this is Kate: I have been in touch with Rita Bryant on the web and phone. She is a dedicated, wonderful person. A quiet, gentle woman, everything godly the Bible says a woman should be. Rita has expressed to me personaly that she would like for these letters attacking Mr. Fish, Mr Soto, Casey and all the group would either stop or be less aggressive. She is afraid Casey will be hurt spiritually, emotonally either now or in future. Lets all ask ourselves to keep this subject on a more gentle, Godly manner. She did not ask me to post this. Thank you. | ||
| Anonymous |
BOSWELL HERE, SISTER KATE; WILL DO. MRS. RITA BRYANT; IF YOU NEED ME, ALL YOU HAVE TO DO IS CALL ME AND I WILL BE THERE... BIG MAC BRILLIANT, INTELLIGENT, GIGANTIC, MANIAC AGAINST CULTS GOODBYE, FOR NOW | ||
| Anonymous |
Alright Kate. It shall be as you wish as far as I'm concerned. | ||
| Anonymous |
Hi, this is kate, thanks, lets all just keep praying for every person tha is in a potentially dangerous situation. And pray for their families and friends. bye for awhile. | ||
| Anonymous |
Visit http://www.MyOwnMind.com Share your story there. It's a cool, thought provoking site. Enjoy. | ||
| Anonymous |
Anonymous: Al Soto, which Bible do you use to find scriptures. I read your posts and i just do not see that in the scriptures. If I read the same Bible, maybe I can understand where you are coming from. Guest Ace: What happened to you. Jean Paul: Did you give up, dont you think we should at least read Sotos Bible. Boswell: Do not care for you. Where do you get the nerve? | ||
| Guest Ace |
For the benefit of those still reading, let me say that I have not returned to this site very often. The strife that is engendered here is not healthy. And lest the burden all be laid at the feet of the 'blasphemers' (as 'No Deceit' seems to do), I will simply say that groups such as this one, that separate themselves are (according to scripture) sensual. The truth is certainly in short supply on the earth, I won't deny that. But one has to test the spirits and I don't find the spirit of Christ abiding here or on ATrueChurch. Two things that stand out now. First, on the issue of debt, this group is ready to lay into a man for having heavy debt and not repaying. As I recall, the man was seriously reprimanded if not booted for having 'evil' (Soto's words) debt. I don't disagree that debt makes one the slave of the lender, but Jesus Christ would not have acted as they did. At least, not if the parable of the man who owed a large debt has any bearing. By acting as the servant who was forgiven a large debt, they heap judgement on themselves. Instead, why not bear the debtor's burdens with Him? This fulfill's Christ's law. Even Christ Himself said this: "Give to him that asketh thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not thou away." Matthew 5:42 So such an attitude towards a debtor is a suspect one. But it goes further than that. Jesus also said this: " Ye have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thine enemy. But I say unto you, Love your enemies, bless them that curse you, do good to them that hate you, and pray for them which despitefully use you, and persecute you;" Matthew 5:43,44 This in NO WAY justifies those who curse and rail this man. However, Jesus said that those who are His will do His will (because they love Him), and His will is not to return curse for curse, but to bless even those who curse. To do good for them that spitefully use you. And if you look at the TrueChurch site, you find that they are into charging others with false doctrine and defending themselves. The true disciple does not defend himself nor Christ. "But I say unto you, That ye resist not evil: but whosoever shall smite thee on thy right cheek, turn to him the other also." Matthew 5:39 "Not rendering evil for evil, or railing for railing: but contrariwise blessing; knowing that ye are thereunto called, that ye should inherit a blessing. For he that will love life, and see good days, let him refrain his tongue from evil, and his lips that they speak no guile. Let him eschew evil, and do good; let him seek peace, and ensue it. ... And above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sins. " I Peter 3:9-11, 4:8 I don't see an attempt to use charity even with their own. There is no apparent attempt to live at peace, but to exchange guile for guile, casting around the blaspheming charge with reckless abandon. This does not seem to me to be in line with I Peter 3:15 which requires an answer in meekness and fear REGARDING THE HOPE THAT IS IN YOU. The chapter continues and shows that if all that is done (seeking peace, walking without guile or curse, exchanging blessings for others' curses) then they are walking according to Christ's law and shall receive the reward promised to His own. You see, while they know the scriptures reasonably well, and have some solid understanding, the fruit is not good. They do need prayer. But I don't see how continual debate does any good. That is why I do not return here often. I had said I was leaving permanently, but am answering for the benefit of those who may lurk and those who are earnest in their seeking. If by my posts, some may be helped, then the Lord will see to it. If not, it is not well for me to continue here. | ||
| Anonymous |
You are a bunck of nuts.Because of people like you, religioun is losing the respect of the masses. You all are going to be accountable for what you have done to harm our world. you have degraded the holy things to the level of freaking psychocults and fanatic blabery. | ||
| Anonymous |
I agree Guest Ace. There is no use arguing here. It will do no good. I have read these posts. And alot of them are just useless information like the above post. Darwin Fish and the people in his church need prayer. I think that would be the best thing to do for them. Prayer is a powerful thing. Fighting will accomplish nothing. | ||
| Anonymous |
Guest Ace, i appreciate you answering and i saw the one response. I think that the hatred in the response is from Darwin Fish, Al Soto, his cult or another cult. So, I believe it is good that you answered so that we can actually feel in our hearts the difference between love and hate message. Yours comes across as love, with strength in the power of the Holy Spirit, unfornately, their post does not. You are doing good, with your love message which meaches all people. People do respond to love message instead of hate. I like your scriptures which bring peace, grace, and hope to people. Question: Since their message is based pm hell, fear, damnation, and that most people, if not all but them will burn eternally in hell, and they only seem to pick scriptues that talk about hate and hell, is there any way to respond to this type of message? I read their scriptures, but to me, this is not Gods message. I serve God because I love Him. He is a God of Love, Salvation, Redemption, and then I have the promise of eternal life with Him, I dont fear hell, it has no waiting place for me. But their mission is to fill hell with Christians? As far as I know, they have no outreach to people who do not know about God? I guess what i am trying to say is what is the best way to fight against the use of hunt and pick Bible verses that say we are all going to hell? We are all blasphamers if we do not belong to their group? its hard to fight scripture with scripture or is that the right way? Joy | ||
| Anonymous |
It's really best not to argue with this group at all. There are over a hundred posts on this forum. Most of the posts have been directed to Al Soto and his group. Of all those posts not one of them has really made a difference. Although there has been a lot of truth spoken, it has not changed a thing. No one has said anything that has made this group say they understand or that they were wrong. You can use scripture but it will make no difference. As far as being told you are a blasphemer, or that you are going to hell, forget it. Christ alone can know your heart. Not any man. Say what you feel but as far as arguing don't waste your time. Sometimes it's best to leave things to God. | ||
| Anonymous |
anonymous: Joy Hey, I found a lot of stuff i was looking for by doing this: type in A TRUE CHURCH-DARWIN FISH i used MSN then when you get there it will be The FAQ , scroll down to number 4 photos, letters about fishes past, information on thier group, lots of stuff, answered a lot of my questions. To the above post: you have been a good friend. I have personal stake in this so i want the word out....it does not help to argue scripture, i defintely know that, i only hope to help those potential members to make up their own minds or to help people understand the group more. Darwin Fish obviously was not first, he learned all this from a Rick Meisel, you will see all this..amazing. I would personally like to see Al Soto turn around and all the group and use their strengths to preach the Good News and am praying this will happen. I wou |
