| Author | Message | ||
     charger New member Username: charger Post Number: 6 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.38.28.127 |
Just tonight my wife and I ran into a lady that use to teach at the private school that our chidren once attended. She does not fit the NTCC definition of a Christian, and I found myself judging her accordingly. For any of you that have gotten the latest trumpet and read the article, "In defense of the gospel" you know from that un-authored article that we can judge the spirituality of a person by their apperance. YES THAT IS WHAT THE ARTICLE STATES. Well as I walked out of that store I was disgusted with myself and I began to look back at when I first got saved. I did not get saved at NTCC. Anyway I was about 14 when I got saved, and I can very well remeber that I did not walk around judging people. I prayed for them. I remember praying for the kids in my class that use to riducule me and mock me. I prayed for those that really seemed to hate me. I prayed for those that were smoking and drinking and doing drugs. I did not hate them, I really prayed for them, becasue I knew they need to get saved. I knew that not because of how they dressed, but because of how they lived. Though these people were not saved I did not sit in judgement of them or condemn them in thought or deed, I genuinly prayed for them. I am sad to say that this changed after I became a part of NTCC. I became a self righteous do-gooder like many others and went around with an attitude that I was somehow superior to everyone. Not just sinners, but even those "so-called" Christians that really are not saved because they did not dress like, act like or know as much as me. I am Ashamed of myself and what I have become. I pray right now that God would forgive me of my high mindedness and help me to get back to the place where I love others and pray for them rather than sit in judgement of them. The time is nearly at hand when I shall depart for the ranks, and for all those that shall judge me and say that I have fallen from grace, that I am not saved. That I have compromised, or have gotten crossed up. To all of you My prayer is that God will forgive you and not lay that sin to your charge. Psalm 7:10 Romans 14:4 Read the whole chapter. I feel that there will be many that will be surprised at my departure and will question why. I hope that they will contact me, or read some of what I am writting. I shall endevor with as much as is within me not speak in a negative way about the organization. I desire to look with in, not without. You all know the saying, "If it is going to be, it is up to me." "I am the sum total of all my thoughts and decisions." Right not the ledgers are not looking real good. I need to make some changes, and with Gods help, mercy and grace I shall change. I really think that this site can be a blessing, a place for help and for healing. Thanks for letting me share my thought with you all. Sincerly Charger! | ||
| imaskingwhy Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 94 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
I whole heartedly agree with your desire to "look within and not without". Keeping a true spiritual well being does not necessarily mean you have leave NTCC and still perpetuate it's high mindedness and self righteusness. Look well to your walk with God once you leave and be true to God as he dwells within you and everything will be fine. Bryan David Hill | ||
| thegreatescape New member Username: thegreatescape Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 75.111.103.143 |
I too had a lot of repenting to do for my so called elite christianity!! To be honest, on occasion I find myself comparing other christians. With all my heart I do not want to do that! I left not long ago, but the thing is I feel so free!! The brethrens reaction still hurts but the freedom outweighs the hurt by far!! I also do not want to bash the org because I saw things the way they do at one time and I would have thought that way too! | ||
| imaskingwhy Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 97 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
"I also do not want to bash the org because I saw things the way they do at one time and I would have thought that way too"! When you lose sight of that fact, you can easily become just as condescending as those still in NTCC, the only difference would be who you view as the enemy. BDH | ||
| charger New member Username: charger Post Number: 7 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.38.28.127 |
Great escape I maybe asking a lot, but now that you are gone, would you mind disclossing your true identity. I imagine I might know you. Once I have made my final brake I will disclose who I am, where I am and how departed, not-departed, and not-yet-departed Brothers and sisters can get in touch with us. | ||
| thegreatescape New member Username: thegreatescape Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 75.111.103.143 |
To be honest, I do not feel comfortable revealing myself as of yet! It sounds so silly doesn't it? For at least a week after I left when I would run erronds I was contantly looking over my shoulder hoping the ntcc brethren would not "catch" me!! I am from the southwest. I do not think of ntcc as the enemy (If that is what you were implying imaskingwhy). I was saved and filled with the Holy Ghost thru ntcc! God uses ntcc as a tool for salvation and for that I cannot bring myself to bash it! The Lord is depragramming me and it will take time but it will happen! God Bless ya'll!!} | ||
| thegreatescape New member Username: thegreatescape Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 75.111.103.143 |
To be honest, I do not feel comfortable revealing myself as of yet! It sounds so silly doesn't it? For at least a week after I left when I would run erronds I was contantly looking over my shoulder hoping the ntcc brethren would not "catch" me!! I am from the southwest. I do not think of ntcc as the enemy (If that is what you were implying imaskingwhy). I was saved and filled with the Holy Ghost thru ntcc! God uses ntcc as a tool for salvation and for that I cannot bring myself to bash it! The Lord is depragramming me and it will take time but it will happen! God Bless ya'll!!} | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 998 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
Hey Charger, Did I know you? Please email me at ntcctruth@yahoo.com Your conversation with me will be private unless you desire otherwise. Marc Perez | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 947 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.3.88 |
to have pulled off a "great escape" from a CHURCH organization...implies something serious. That is why there are folks on this forum with usernames such as "freedom", sogladtobefree" and the like. It implies being held somewhere (albeit in our mind) against our will. To point out that such a group's antics are both controlling and abusive...is not "bashing", but it's a warning. I guess it depends on your definition and sometimes words are thrown around without any real meaning. I've been guilty of using words without really thinking about the implications. Many of us, when leaving this group, take on an almost self-righteousness concerning OUR particular departure. "WE ARE NOT GOING TO BE LIKE THOSE "other" DEPARTEES; WE ARE NOT GOING TO BASH. WE ARE GOING TO BE NICE, AFTER ALL, WE GOT SAVED IN NTCC". Jesus saved us, not NTCC. And, in Davis' own words: The Devil could preach the gospel and folks would get saved. I wanted to post this because I've been where others have been who are recently departed. I didn't want to have our names "out there on the internet" for all to see and gawk at. Our family had just been through an emotional ordeal. I didn't want to subject any of us to public scrutiny...most especially by those still in NTCC. Is it stating the truth, or not...to point out the dangerous aspects of NTCC? If it is...then it is not bashing. Would any of us who are out like to see others get entangled with this group? No! To "bash" means something. Warning...is not bashing. We've been through something which has taken our emotions to the limit and back again. And, when we post here, our passion and our heart cannot always be seen. I just think that sometimes it sounds good to come out here and say you are not about "bashing". But, you are here on this FACTNET forum...the purpose of which is to expose cult behaviors of religious organizations. There must be a reason for your showing up here. Pleass don't confuse warning...with bashing. That's all. To "thegreatescape" person: I would hope that even if you don't know me intimately enough to know where I'm "coming from"...that you at least have enough knowledge about me to know it is only said in the most positive way. Sincerely, Tracy | ||
| mklo Advanced Member Username: mklo Post Number: 681 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 216.229.186.218 |
In other words, they are still afraid. They left with their feet, but they are still allowing the group to control their minds with fear. "I'm outta here because I can't stand the hypocrisy, abuse and weirdness, but I'll just slink quietly away and allow them to label me as a quitter, compromiser and apostate. Maybe they won't be as hateful if I keep my stories and reasons for leaving to myself." But the fact remains that THERE IS NO GOOD WAY TO LEAVE NTCC. No one has ever left with Davis's blessing, and no one ever will. I guess some people just need more time than others to decompress and gain an understanding of what they've been through. It's understandable, considering the brainwashing they've been subjected to for however many years. But bullies need to be stood up to, eventually. | ||
| ntcctruth Senior Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 1002 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
Well said, Sir Lloyd-Owen. I remember Dr. Vic's statement about getting to the point where we realize they can't hurt us or do anything to us anymore. There is alot to be said about being set free from that fear, which was instilled in us by man. Gave gave us not a spirit of fear, but of power, of love, and of a sound mind. II Tim 1:7 Marc Perez | ||
| mark_g Advanced Member Username: mark_g Post Number: 572 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
Well said, Sir Lloyd-Owen. "I remember Dr. Vic's statement about getting to the point where we realize they can't hurt us or do anything to us anymore." It took me a long,long time to realize that RWD doesn't have anything at all that is special from God. That he doesn't go up into Mt. Sinai every morning to speak with God face to face. He is just a human as the rest of us, as well as a S-I-N-N-E-R. | ||
| ntcctruth Senior Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 1004 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
"It took me a long,long time to realize that RWD doesn't have anything at all that is special from God. That he doesn't go up into Mt. Sinai every morning to speak with God face to face. He is just a human as the rest of us, as well as a S-I-N-N-E-R." ----------------------------------------------- I'm still chuckling at that one...LOL Marc Perez | ||
| clearwater New member Username: clearwater Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 71.227.171.20 |
MKLO, I think your point is absurd. That is if I understand it correctly. People that depart the org for theological differences and choose not to rail on against them are somehow flawed in their thinking, or either laden with fear? Because if they weren't, knowing all that will be said about their departure and reasons therof they too would lash out? While I stand to be corrected it does seem that approach to be overly simplistic and dogmatic, the same dogmatism that you and I fled. To justify this and say that there is no good way to leave ntcc is mere opinion. Keep in mind for the half dozen or so regular posters on here there is a myriad of people that have left and simply found it more conducive to move on. As to that being the right way or not is not the point. The point is should someone choose that approach I dont think they should be castigated as still not thoroughly cleansed or free from the org, or harboring fears. Take care sir | ||
| mark_g Advanced Member Username: mark_g Post Number: 573 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
"To justify this and say that there is no good way to leave ntcc is mere opinion." I can't name one person in all my years at NTCC who ever left the organization on a good note, or with the blessings of the church. I'm not saying that it has never happened, But if it has it would certainly be in the Minority of the departures from people that I've seen leave. What I've seen, as well as heard about from the people I've known who have left is either they left secretly or either they took the risk of telling everyone that they were leaving and then they were lectured, talked to, preached at, until they either changed their minds and stayed, or they just left in the middle of the night, so to speak, and just took what they could fit in their Car and left the rest. | ||
| clearwater New member Username: clearwater Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 71.227.171.20 |
MG, my point stands. I hope that does not come across as arrogant. It is simply a matter of opinion as to the best way to move on. The mere fact that we are pontificating over that idea is in and of itself proof of the original premise. The point (apparently missed) in the previous post was simply different people will deal with it differently (ya think) Those who choose to go forward not looking back should not be chastised or questioned by those who choose to become outspoken on their experiences while in the org. To deny this is to say, "one size fits all". I rather suspect that mentality is pretty much what we all escaped from. Take care | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1433 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 216.67.70.26 |
"MKLO, I think your point is absurd. That is if I understand it correctly." My understanding of Mick's point is different than yours. He didn't say that everyone who left and chooses not to speak publicly about his experience is motivated by fear, only that those who do refrain for that specific reason still have not completely broken free of NTCC's sick control. I know that for myself, publicly confronting these manipulators has been very therapeutic, and I submit that others doing so have likewise been helped. Enumerating one's reasons for departure and sharing negative experiences doesn't necessarily constitute 'railing.' One thing I know about Mick is that he is not a 'one size fits all' proponent. And while it my be pure opinion that there is no good way to leave NTCC, it is an opinion which is well supported by the facts. I never saw anyone leave on good terms during the 16 years I was 'in,' and have yet to hear of such a person to date. Have you? Hey Mick, maybe you could post "50 Ways to Leave R'Dubber" if you can find a copy. Mine's on a melted down hard drive. It would make a great addition to the Song Lyrics thread. (Message edited by victorjohanson on December 22, 2007) | ||
| mark_g Advanced Member Username: mark_g Post Number: 574 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
"Those who choose to go forward not looking back should not be chastised or questioned by those who choose to become outspoken on their experiences while in the org." No, they should not. Or, a better statement would be why WOULD anyone chasten or question them. It's their business anyway. I've got enough to worry about without trying to put myself in the middle of other peoples business anyway. | ||
| clearwater New member Username: clearwater Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 71.227.171.20 |
Vic, I was not addressing "your" understanding of mklo point, but mine. Frankly, not to sound curt but I really don't care what your understaning of his point is. Of course, others may so your diatribe may yet fall on "itching ears" (LOL). In fact, as you recognized I began the post with the caveat "if I understand the point correctly". If I didn't, I am sure Mick will set me straight in time. No biggy MG, point well taken, agreed. good night fellas | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1434 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 216.67.49.161 |
"Vic, I was not addressing "your" understanding of mklo point, but mine." Well, I was addressing you in a friendly attempt to articulate a possible valid alternate undestanding of Mick's remarks. It sounded like you were inviting such discussion with your 'caveat,' and since this is a public forum, you've no reason to be snitty if others chime in. Naturally Mick will respond here when and if he chooses--and then we might find out we're both wrong. But if you wanted a tête à tête, you could have found his email address in the "Keeping in Touch" thread. I also hoped you would explain whether you distinguish between 'railing' and warning. Is there no role for those who wish to help others avoid years of torment? Some lexicography would make whatever it is you are trying to say clearer. Must you be so hostile? Did you think I was trying to 'rail' on you or something? Well, I wasn't; just trying to foster a little understanding. One who bases an argument on possibly flawed premises should welcome the opportunity to receive other perspectives. Peace out. | ||
| clearwater New member Username: clearwater Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 71.227.171.20 |
Vic, from the tone of your post "I think" you may have miscontrued my post. As to your question of the differences in railings and warning and is there not a role for those who wish to help others, sure. Although, previously you mentioned it as being therapeutic for yourself warning others was not in the text. Now they are. No harm no foul. You obviously have an opinion on such as well, and have acted/posted accordingly. Why you would seek my opinion on it is odd. Indeed, if history is any indicator its not going to change yours. The fact is that very issue has been dealt with ad nauseam in this very forum, as you well know. If I were cynical, I would say I'm being baited. However, I have no desire to step in a "particular issue" where the minds of the participants seem to be already made up. Rightly or wrongly. I also recognize my own limitations and have not the ability to change ones mind in this area for or against. I will refrain. Truth is from my limited understanding as far as I can tell what goes on (on certain issues) is more confirmation than illumination. My apologies if you found my post hostile. I assure you it was not the intention. In any case, have a merry Christmas. um out | ||
| pelfdaddy Advanced Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 961 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.214.217.127 |
OK, Ready? Mick was responding to Tracy. Tracy said that some people border on self-righteousness, failing to see the need for exposure of this group for the good of others, and placing themselves on a higher moral plain than those who "bash" ntcc. This was her point, and Mick was following this up by saying... ...that this mentality is often the result of brainwashing. In other words, the individual thinks "I am well-adjusted and not embittered, so I will not stoop to this level", when in reality he is responding to the fear by which he has been long conditioned, which states: "God will destroy you if you disagree with HIS MAN. Touch not the Lord's annointed, blah, blah, blah..." This fear is (sometimes) conveniently re-worked as nobility and passed off as superiority. Clearwater is correct as far as "individual differences of response should not be condemned" is concerned--in a vaccuum--but he has totally missed Mick's point. And don't bother getting on my case like you did with Vic. I DO speak for Mick because I read his mind. If I say this is what he means, then this is what he means. Thanks | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1435 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 216.67.49.161 |
"My apologies if you found my post hostile. I assure you it was not the intention." It's as clear as water now; no offense taken. And I'm glad you are resisting the cynicism, because I rephrased my post a few times to avoid the appearance of baiting. Sorry I wasn't more successful. As for my opinions, they are not infallible nor unmalleable; in fact they have been formed with the assistance of valuable input from others. Since I want others to be open to my opinions, I try to remain open to theirs. With regard to NTCC, my opinion has shifted in the negative direction since I left as the litany of complaints from injured parties continues to swell. The sheer volume of damage done by this organization has further eroded any vestige of confidence in the goodness of their motives. There is some humorous irony in that you objected to me responding to your post because it wasn't directed at me when the post you were responding to wasn't directed at you either, though. Merry Christmas! | ||
| clearwater New member Username: clearwater Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 71.227.171.20 |
Vic, now we've blown it!!! We got Pelfdaddy stirred up. Dude can read minds, just ask him!!! I am so outta here. Sorry Pelf I wont post again (lol). | ||
| pelfdaddy Advanced Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 962 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.214.104.229 |
One of the things I enjoy about factnet is sitting for several weeks and observing while everyone behaves like everyone else's wife--totally contrarian and reflexively misunderstanding as much as possible. Humor is only received when announced, never when subtle; ill motives are assumed regularly, though seldom ever intended. I commented about my certain knowledge of Mick's inner thoughts in order to test "who will realize that this is at least a little bit funny?" Ask ten people to rate a movie from 1-10 with commentary in essay form using a secret ballot and you will find that people often think alike. The results will show ample agreement and even a significant sampling of uniformity. But do the same thing in an open forum, with everyone taking turns to voice their opinions aloud, and you will have ten individuals radically at variance. This is because, of all the favorite American hobbies--from ping pong to crochet--disagreement is by far the most popular. | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1437 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 216.67.46.179 |
"I commented about my certain knowledge of Mick's inner thoughts in order to test "who will realize that this is at least a little bit funny?" " Dude, you're bad. I think God was talking about you when he condemned cursing the deaf and casting a stumblinglock before the blind. Do you think this phenomenon is partially caused by the nature of this medium? Would disagreements and misunderstandings occur as readily in a face to face setting? Sublety is sometimes hard to catch without nonverbal cues. But you blew your cover a long time ago through other manifestations of deadpan outrageousness, so I did think that the mindreading thing was "at least a little bit funny." The deaf and blind weren't as amused, though. Shame on you. | ||
| ntcctruth Senior Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 1007 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.50.202.54 |
Those 2 posts above were very deep, intellectual, and profound. Dr. Vic and Professor Pelfdaddy are very laid back and intellectual. Nobody should take them too seriously or be too defensive towards them. Their posts tend to be near perfect. They're so perfect, that they may have to consider using smiley faces in order to disarm the readers and diffuse some of that variance. I know...you're thinking that I'm advocating the dumbing down of some very good posts...LOL...  ...never mind...bad idea. Marc Perez | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1438 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 216.67.46.179 |
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODu9plcnn6k | ||
| charger New member Username: charger Post Number: 16 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 71.38.28.127 |
This post has really changed course here. I have to say it is getting harder and harder not to come across as a "basher of the org." I am not bashing nor do I think everyone else is. Some might be. For those that call it bashing. here is a new thought that has crossed my mind. Think about this. If a JW leaves the church, they are goat. They are marked, labeled and avoided. When they die, they are going to soul sleep forever. No Hell for the JW's If a Mormon leaves the church, they are called Jack mormons. They are marked, labeled and lost forever. Do Mormons believe in HELL? The Mormons try to put a spin on there religion. The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. They talk a good show, but when it comes right down to it, they are the only true church. Now if a person leaves NTCC they are also marked and avoided, and said to be lost, crossed up, jacked up, etc. NTCC also talks a good show about there being other Christians out there, other churches, etc. But the reality is if you leave, in their mind, and most likely everyone that has been a part believed this at one time, your going to hell right on along with all the rest of the other so called Christians in the world. I do not consider this bashing, I would call it de-fragging. Venting, asking hard questions looking for answers? I am starting to agree with Vic. As I step beack and begin to evaluate things, the more I find my confidence, and my respect for the org. as a whole being eroded. I feel bad for the rank and file that have been lead to believe that they have a Lock on the Gospel and they are the only ones going, if they even go. Remember, "the hardest thing you will ever do is make the rapture." | ||
| ntcctruth Senior Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 1008 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.50.202.54 |
Hey Dr. Vic, I chuckled at that video. The first thought that came to mind was Dr. Vic's alter ego. "I hate emotioncons...(with an Australian accent)" LOL  Marc Perez | ||
| clearwater New member Username: clearwater Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 71.227.171.20 |
P-daddy, I have known you for years and fully recognize your tongue-in-cheek mannerism. It's all good. Vic said, "the deaf and the blind weren't as ammused though". I will pretend I did not see that or hear that. NTCC said, "their post tend to be 'near' perfect. Please point out the slight imperfection in them for the unwashed. (lol) | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1441 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 216.67.56.15 |
"As I step beack and begin to evaluate things, the more I find my confidence, and my respect for the org. as a whole being eroded." When we first left, we tried to stay positive. We gave them the benefit of the doubt and chose to believe that they weren't intentionally inflicting harm on others. I continued to pay on pledges I made while still 'in,' and my wife tried to maintain contact with some sisters. Well, of course she got the cold shoulder, and I ran into a few "brothers" (Holt and Stevens in particular) who wasted no time in blasting me and letting me know I was wrong and had lost out with God. CTYankee was a notable exception; he received us and never treated us badly (the fact that he also has now escaped corroborates his good conscience). Over time, as we learned more about how others who had left were treated, and some of RW's checkered past came to light, a different picture emerged. It's painful to face the fact that those whom we thought cared for our souls were actually rapacious exploiters who lured us into their powermongering control scheme with phony love, and so-called brothers who professed to be friends willing to lay their lives down for us proved fickle enough to drop us like hot rocks for no other reason than that we left their church. But that's how it really is. | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1442 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 216.67.56.15 |
"Vic said, "the deaf and the blind weren't as ammused though". I will pretend I did not see that or hear that." I figured you would detect that it was only some pelfdaddyesque sublety (must...resist...emoticons). I think I detect a bit of it in your resonse, too. | ||
| bfamily New member Username: bfamily Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 68.251.152.94 |
Pelfdaddy wrote "This is because, of all the favorite American hobbies--from ping pong to crochet--disagreement is by far the most popular." Is that why my husband is always asking why I disagree with him alot. ;0) | ||
| steve_tyrer Member Username: steve_tyrer Post Number: 80 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 69.152.171.83 |
"so-called brothers who professed to be friends willing to lay their lives down for us proved fickle enough to drop us like hot rocks." I think most brothers' friendship was genuine - I know mine was. However, we just couldn't see beyond NTCC. I still get a kick out of it when I meet/talk to someone from back then. Looking back, I really do wonder how things would have turned out if things hadn't been controlling. | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1443 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 216.67.56.15 |
"I think most brothers' friendship was genuine - I know mine was." I never doubted yours. You left before I did, and lived far away, so I wasn't able to maintain contact and I missed you a lot. In one of the last conversations we had before you left, I remember you talking about your struggle with the disparity between "working the program" and guaranteed "success." Mostly I guess I was judging the friendship of others by my own, and it was distressing to discover that it didn't seem to work both ways like I thought it should. When my closest friend left, I couldn't force myself to ditch him--but his own brother did, and I was included in that rejection too. But you are right; there are mitigating circumstances and I blame the leadership more than I do them. We all acted out of character to one degree or another because of external manipulation. | ||
| ctyankee Intermediate Member Username: ctyankee Post Number: 192 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 75.165.117.185 |
Vic, I agree with Steve in that there are real brothers in ntcc, that are FORCED to reject us against their will. For example, when I was blasted from the pulpit for staying friends with you,(because I couldn't ditch my friends either), I was told point blank by Davis that I had to either choose him and ntcc or you! It was black and white-- you or him, with no in between. This really put me between a rock and hard spot. But, not wanting to be out of Davis' good grace (but not wanting to lose your friendship either) I had to make the very tough decision to stop talking to you. The pressure was intense-- and of course they were watching me to see if I would stay "loyal". I think the real test is when a past "friend" sees you unexpectedly in public. If they diss you and put you down, they weren't real friends. If they are nice and don't hurt you, they are probably real. Of course, as soon as they leave ntcc, if they are a real friend they will search for you, to reunite the friendship. I've done this alot. Some people were very hard to find, but once I found them, they were so grateful that some of them started crying. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1953 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.218.104 |
I'd cry too if you got a hold of me... As a matter of fact, I'm crying now just THINKING about it! | ||
| steve_tyrer Member Username: steve_tyrer Post Number: 81 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 69.152.171.83 |
I happened to be reading I Corinthians 5:9-11 about breaking fellowship with believers. The list of evil doings are fornication, covetousness, idolatry, railings, drunkards and extortioners - - nothing even close to breaking fellowship with someone just because they don't go to your particular assembly. |
