| Author | Message | ||
     bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1918 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.95.82 |
Are we blaspheming the Holy Ghost by attacking and condemning Davis' ministry as of the devil? After giving this 'suggestion' serious thought (for say all of about 5 seconds): By the grace of God and the Word of His truth and the Spirit of His fellowship, I say without hesitation, double-mindedness, nor any shadow of turning that Davis, his church-building business, the Pentecostal doctrine and soulwinning program thereof, and ALL his successful Leaders profiting thereby: Are false, man-made, of the devil, and not of God. Destructively so. And ANYONE giving themselves to Davis and his program for the sake of ministerial success are ALREADY on the road to corrupting and destroying the good Jesus faith of others, as they ALREADY have being done to themselves. I was one such. I was a fool of the devil, even as a believer in Christ, by Davis' love. I have repented of that filthy business, and I do wholeheartedly exhort others to do the same likewise, knowing the terror of the Lord upon such proselytizing, recruiting, pushing, and ravaging wolves raising themselves up among God's sheep. Even as Davis has lost, or is losing his own Christian soul in order to gain a whole organization of ministerial success, so have and are others, that have and are being seduced, decieved, lured, and otherwise preyed upon to do the same. I say this with all my heart, mind, soul, strength, Scripture, prayer, and fellowship with Jesus, My Father, and His Spirit. I either speak the truth in these things with love for souls and hate for false doctrine and deeds, and am defending God's gospel and ministry as it is written, or I am lying, living a lie, and of the devil. And yet, with all that, even if it were so (according to the verifiable proof of Scripture), that my outcries are wrong, and Davis truly is an honored vessel and servant of God, I am STILL NOT blaspheming the Holy Ghost in ANY of these matters. Why not? Because I have declared all along that Davis' cultism is his USE of God's true things for His church (Salvation from sins, filling of the Spirit, healings, edifying miracles, etc...), which God has been able to do in NTCC and HOP (and any other CULT or truly edifying local church) wheresoever ANY believes on Him for it: it is indeed God and His finger doing great and wonderful things as He has promised to do in the name of Jesus, His dearly-beloved and only begotten Son and Savior for all the world (Even in cults!)... | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1919 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.95.82 |
Remember King Saul: The Spirit of the Lord moved upon him during his royally hateful, murderous, envious pursuit of Davis, so that he prophesied through the night, and he was even wondered of as among the prophets. Yet, for all that goodness of God so abundantly bestowed upon him as a man, as a king, as a once-anointed Leader for Israel, he still did not repent nor cease to rule over Israel contrary to the Holy One's commandments and chase after the apple of God's eye to destroy him, even to the end of his days on earth: forsaken of God, defeated, lost, and destroyed by his enemy. And even more disastrously: with other good people going down after him! Such is the truly devilish nature of CULTISM, especially today in the body and church of Jesus Christ. 'Now I beseech you, brethren, mark them which cause divisions and offences contrary to the doctrine which ye have learned; and avoid them.' (Rom 16:17) | ||
| imaskingwhy Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 69 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
A perfect time for Paul the apostle to condem his contemporaries as a cult, satanic, of the devil, evil, false prophets and on and on. But intstead he rejoices that Christ is preached, even when it is done in pretence Phil 1:15-18 15Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: 16The one preach Christ of contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: 17But the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. 18What then? notwithstanding, every way, whether in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice. pre·tense (prtns, pr-tns) n. 1. The act of pretending; a false appearance or action intended to deceive. 2. A false or studied show; an affectation: a pretense of nonchalance. 3. A professed but feigned reason or excuse; a pretext: under false pretenses. 4. Something imagined or pretended. 5. Mere show without reality; outward appearance. 6. A right asserted with or without foundation; a claim. See Synonyms at claim. 7. The quality or state of being pretentious; ostentation. Bryan David Hill | ||
| imaskingwhy Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
Noun 1. pretence - a false or unsupportable quality pretension, pretense artificiality - the quality of being produced by people and not occurring naturally 2. pretence - an artful or simulated semblance; "under the guise of friendship he betrayed them" guise, pretext, pretense semblance, gloss, color, colour - an outward or token appearance or form that is deliberately misleading; "he hoped his claims would have a semblance of authenticity"; "he tried to give his falsehood the gloss of moral sanction"; "the situation soon took on a different color" 3. pretence - pretending with intention to deceive dissembling, feigning, pretense deception, misrepresentation, deceit - a misleading falsehood bluff - pretense that your position is stronger than it really is; "his bluff succeeded in getting him accepted" pretext, stalking-horse - something serving to conceal plans; a fictitious reason that is concocted in order to conceal the real reason hypocrisy, lip service - an expression of agreement that is not supported by real conviction 4. pretence - imaginative intellectual play make-believe, pretense imagery, imaging, mental imagery, imagination - the ability to form mental images of things or events; "he could still hear her in his imagination" 5. pretence - the act of giving a false appearance; "his conformity was only pretending" pretending, pretense, feigning, simulation dissimulation, deception, dissembling, deceit - the act of deceiving show, appearance - pretending that something is the case in order to make a good impression; "they try to keep up appearances"; "that ceremony is just for show" pretend, make-believe - the enactment of a pretense; "it was just pretend" affectation, affectedness, mannerism, pose - a deliberate pretense or exaggerated display masquerade - making a false outward show; "a beggar's masquerade of wealth" | ||
| imaskingwhy Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 71 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
Now that a little balance has been added lets ask ourselves who is right. The Apostle Paul or the Apostle Derrick. BDH | ||
| imaskingwhy Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 73 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
Brother Derrick says: "By the grace of God and the Word of His truth and the Spirit of His fellowship, I say without hesitation, double-mindedness, nor any shadow of turning that Davis, his church-building business, the Pentecostal doctrine and soulwinning program thereof, and ALL his successful Leaders profiting thereby: Are false, man-made, of the devil, and not of God. Destructively so." Let the Bible speak for itself concerning the subject of blasphemy Mathew 12:32 "Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come". Remember the Holy spirit came after Jesus left to live in us and express himself thru us. We are His hands and feet. A great price has been paid for the redemption of each soul and it is not taken lightly that the Holy Spirit has come to dwell in each of God's children. I AM NOT ACCUSING ANYONE OF BLASPHEMING THE HOLY SPIRIT ALL I AM SAYING IS WHAT JESUS SAID JUST A FEW VERSES AFTER THE BLASPHEMY VERSE verse 36 "But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Bryan David Hill | ||
| imaskingwhy Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
Mathew 10:25 "It is enough for the student to be like his teacher, and the servant like his master. If the head of the house has been called Beelzebub,[a] how much more the members of his household! And then Jesus warns them in Mathew 12:31,32 31 Wherefore I say unto you, All manner of sin and blasphemy shall be forgiven unto men: but the blasphemy against the Holy Ghost shall not be forgiven unto men. 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Then in verse 36 he gives the chilling warning concerning the words of our mouth. 36 "But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." Bryan David Hill | ||
| imaskingwhy Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
Brother Derrick says "By the grace of God and the Word of His truth and the Spirit of His fellowship, I say without hesitation, double-mindedness, nor any shadow of turning that Davis, his church-building business, the Pentecostal doctrine and soulwinning program thereof, and ALL his successful Leaders profiting thereby: Are false, man-made, of the devil, and not of God. Destructively so". James 3 Taming the Tongue 1 Not many of you should presume to be teachers, my brothers, because you know that we who teach will be judged more strictly. 2 We all stumble in many ways. If anyone is never at fault in what he says, he is a perfect man, able to keep his whole body in check. 6 "And the tongue is a fire, a world of iniquity: so is the tongue among our members, that it defileth the whole body, and setteth on fire the course of nature; and it is set on fire of hell". 9 With the tongue we praise our Lord and Father, and with it we curse men, who have been made in God's likeness. 10 Out of the same mouth come praise and cursing. My brothers, this should not be. We are warned concerning setting ourself up as teachers and reminded that the tongue though hard to tame, must be tamed. Blessing God in one breath and cursing man made in the image of God with the next breath is equal to defiling the whole body and fanning the fires of hell. Bryan David Hill | ||
| objectiveobserver Intermediate Member Username: objectiveobserver Post Number: 193 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 63.147.151.190 |
Bryan be careful, that you don't take away the Apostle Bobs bully pulpit. He is every bit as dogmatic in his denunciations of NTCC as he once was in its defense. God has blessed him with an 8.50 per hour job that enables him to sit on his butt all day and rifle through his Strongs Concordance and butcher and tailor scripture to attack those he hates. This is indeed an honorable ministry, and please don't utilize scripture to point out the error of his ways. Fanatics and haters like the Apostle Bob, only utilize scripture as an attack tool, and know very well that they are not personally obligated to adhere to any Biblical admonishment especially the Red Letter teachings of that rabble rouser Jesus Christ. I sincerely thank you for bringing some apparently prayerful, scriptural balance to these threads. God bless you and yours Larry Duran (an ex'r but not a hater,) | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 970 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
"This is indeed an honorable ministry, and please don't utilize scripture to point out the error of his ways. Fanatics and haters like the Apostle Bob, only utilize scripture as an attack tool, and know very well that they are not personally obligated to adhere to any Biblical admonishment especially the Red Letter teachings of that rabble rouser Jesus Christ." ----------------------------------------- Quoted from the NTCC/cult textbook. If the Apostle Bob, so to speak, is that way, then he learned it from the best at NTCC as a trained minister under RWD, Ron Denis, Woodbrook servicemans home, and Graham. There's no denying that NTCC twists scripture to make us believe that just about everyone outside of NTCC is apostate and the VERY FEW that aren't will be led by God to it someday soon...but God is waiting for laborers/go-getters for the harvest field to go get 'em. As far as being blessed by God with an $8.50 an hour job is concerned (or whatever he's making...probably not too much more than that perhaps), he has all of those years off the work force/moving around the USA to thank for it. That's nothing uncommon in controlling orthodox church cults like NTCC. You forsake any good paying career opportunities in order to not interfere with the activities of the cult and so on. I'm a good example of that. I was told by my dad that I should have been a Scientist or pursued a career in Medical Research because I have the mind for it. I have a highly gifted mind, according to every battery of tests that I've taken over the years to measure intellect and academic ability. I was courted by the Navy to try out for their Nuke program, the Air Force for their B-1 Bomber program (but I couldn't enter into either one due to bad color vision). I was offered a full ride 4 year scholarship by a University. Yet just now...at 38 years old and 2 years out of NTCC, am I looking at clearing six digits per year on my income (plus wife's income). I could have done that in the mid-90's, had it not been for letting myself be used and abused "for Christ's sake" by RWD, MCKEKEL, and Co. Up until the final few years, I was a 100% true blue believer in the borg and even up until the last 6-8 months or so, I thought Davis was still a Godly man with some problems. You, Larry, were smart enough to get outta dodge while the gittin' was good and pursue your own prosperity. Yet you also defend NTCC because you still think they're holy or something (especially since momma and stepdaddy are Boardmember gophers for RWD/MCKEKEL). That comes from lack of true biblical and Christian teaching/environment - just a likeness thereof that serves as a thin veil to cover the corruption and cult-style controlling manmade religion that RWD is using to build his religious real estate portfolio. You had a bad start with NTCC, escaped with another man's wife and lived in sin thereafter, which had thankfully ended and now you can go on to the next chapter of your life. What that means is that up to the present time, your Christian teaching, experiences, and upbringing have been tainted by things outside of the realm of God and the Bible. Marc Perez | ||
| imaskingwhy Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 79 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
Brother Derrick asks " "Are we blaspheming the Holy Ghost by attacking and condemning Davis' ministry as of the devil?" Brother Derrick says After giving this 'suggestion' serious thought (for say all of about 5 seconds): Jesus says 32 And whosoever speaketh a word against the Son of man, it shall be forgiven him: but whosoever speaketh against the Holy Ghost, it shall not be forgiven him, neither in this world, neither in the world to come. Then in verse 36 he gives the chilling warning concerning the words of our mouth. 36 "But I tell you that men will have to give account on the day of judgment for every careless word they have spoken. 37 For by your words you will be acquitted, and by your words you will be condemned." BDH | ||
| objectiveobserver Intermediate Member Username: objectiveobserver Post Number: 194 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 63.147.151.190 |
Marc I've allowed myself to be baited into verbal confrontations with you many times, and as usual you will try and make the issue about me. Thats fine, the point of this thread is whether attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to that of Satan is blasphemy? My contention is that the Apostle Bob and his ilk give no credence to any scripture that doesn't mesh with their attack NTCC at all costs, reckless mentality. Heck, many of the more diligent posters in these threads can't even agree on whether there is a literal heaven or hell,it's like they took John Lennons song "Imagine" and made it their credo. We did however learn this week that the scriptures} endorsing the eating of meat are still for us today and to be taken litterally. yahoo! ya'll have come a long way in your Christian walk. For the Apostle Bob, I'll speculate that Factnet is likely the only pulpit he ever had or ever will have, what a ministry! He really heard the Macedonian call right?  As for his income or yours or mine noone really cares, he posted it awhile back so I referenced it. Remember Marc, no matter who I am or what Ive done, its not alright to gossip, slander, and backstab Good Christian men, who actually stand in pulpits every week and proclaim the Good News that Jesus Saves. Larry Duran (an ex'r, not a hater) | ||
| jet_lagg New member Username: jet_lagg Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.2.239.118 |
Heh, I guess I'm not the only one that can how similar Derrick is to Pastor Davis. What a relief. | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 978 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.50.202.54 |
"...and as usual you will try and make the issue about me." I care not about your past, only that it's relevant to your current beliefs and albeit unique positions (leaving NTCC yet defending Davis to the hilt). "Remember Marc, no matter who I am or what Ive done, its not alright to gossip, slander, and backstab Good Christian men, who actually stand in pulpits every week and proclaim the Good News that Jesus Saves." Good people? The gospel is preached alright, and thank God for that, but laced with their add-on doctrines of borg loyalty, kooky beliefs, and leader worship. The gospel is being used as merchandise towards their ends of sucking people into their borg control life so they can use the sheep and make money from them too. It's not really about ministry, except for those pioneers out there who are trying to reconcile the borg agenda with Christ's agenda and the two don't match, which is why many NTCC church pioneers don't get far off the ground...cuz they're not purely like Davis in using and abusing people. You say these are good men. Yet you're not with them and of them. You confirmed that...by voting with your feet. I can guarantee you that you're not respected by those who defend you. You have yet to make the clean break from believing that Davis, MCKEKEL, etc are holy men. I've seen otherwise. I've seen them make decisions on who goes to what pulpits based on business/money/recruitment ability, not by Godly/moral character. You can take that to the bank. Another thing - why did people in NTCC have to get permission to call each other and fellowship with each other so much? Could it be because RWD didn't want to risk people losing their delusion of NTCC holiness, purity, and Godliness by confirming their thoughts, suspicions, and events that they've witnessed with each other? After all, myself included, those of us who were true believers let ourselves get sucked in because we thought these men were so holy and all. That's how we allowed ourselves to be controlled to points beyond logic and bordering on insanity. Imagine...a responsible Christian adult having to go to Kekel or Davis for permission all the time. They can have their pulpits. I'd rather have people come to my home or vice versa and share God's word and fellowship that way (the ORIGINAL Biblical way) rather than the worldly W. European/American style of corporate church today. Can you name one, even one instance in the New Testament where a corporate church with ONE PULPIT facing a theater style audience had occurred? Just one? A half of one? Give me the example and I'll shut my mouth for good. Otherwise, you're full of delusions of NTCC grandeur and purity. As for Derrick (who knows not of what I'm posting here), he's closer to the Bible than Davis and corporate church America. At least he's not fleecing the flock like your parents' idols/bosses do. At least he's sharing from the heart and trying to help people without anything to gain. He helped me and my family when we were in need. Davis and NTCC never did that. Ministry begins at home and it's more action than just a bunch of hot air from the pulpit. Why don't you face the facts by asking how many marriages have been split by Derrick's posts vs. Davis's ministry? How many kids grew up rebellious? How many people have left God and stopped trusting any minister? I'd trust that before I'd trust money hungry real estate tycoons in sheep's clothing like these good honorable men. Marc Perez | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 979 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.50.202.54 |
And another thing... If NTCC preaching was so good, why don't they broadcast it or make tapes available? I'm speaking of Graham, St. Louis, Woodbrook, and other leading NTCC bastions that are pastored by Davis clones. Some pioneer ministers do, but they did so usually by preaching NTCC lite (without the usual code and borg loyalty that comes later). It's just like the Mormons. They have those flowery TV commercials, but they don't tell you about their magical underwear, populating planets in the afterlife, and other kooky stuff. Could it be because NTCC has kooky stuff to hide from the world that's only for the consumption of the sucked-in/delusioned? Marc Perez | ||
| watchman_ct New member Username: watchman_ct Post Number: 8 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.109.67.117 |
This statement ..."The gospel is preached alright, and thank God for that, but laced with their add-on doctrines of borg loyalty, kooky beliefs, and leader worship. The gospel is being used as merchandise towards their ends of sucking people into their borg control life so they can use the sheep and make money from them too. It's not really about ministry, except for those pioneers out there who are trying to reconcile the borg agenda with Christ's agenda and the two don't match, which is why many NTCC church pioneers don't get far off the ground." Sounds like this cult is related to the Manchester, CT - Full Gospel Interdenominational Church where the exalted almighty Rev. Eleanor Kalinsky Lords over the flock with the same controlling and manipulative doctrine of man. There is so much added to God's word that you can get so easily confused on what the truth is. We need to remember Galatians 1 where Paul teaches that ANY OTHER GOSPEL is NOT the GOSPEL and it is a CURSE!!! Sounds like NTCC is a sister church to Kalinsky's Fake Gospel... Not to mention the term "Full Gospel" is certainly not THE GOSPEL but her version of it and it is certainly not FULL as they advertise. Also, the church is also NOT INTERDENOMINATIONAL. There is nothing interdenominational about it. It is their own cult and no one else can participate unless you line up with their screwed up teachings. | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 980 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 74.50.202.54 |
"Sounds like NTCC is a sister church to Kalinsky's Fake Gospel..." That's because these borgs are the fruit of a flawed American Pentecostal movement that is made up of ambitious men and women who have added to the Bible. Many men with influences outside of Jesus Christ have twisted the gospel to further their corporate and "church building" ambitions. One thing that is classic of many circles in the Pentecostal movement is getting people to do things...like speaking in tongues by shouting and "praying" over them with hands on heads while gyrating and making syllables that will hopefully be repeated by the person on the receiving end. I'm not saying that the speaking of tongues isn't real, but alot of it in the Pentecostal realm is because it is copied and learned from people who "got them" to do it. If you can get a person to say as you say, then they'll believe as you believe and do as you do, regardless of whether or not they understand it. That's why ministers in the pentecostal movement are taught to emphasize and push the speaking of tongues so much...it's so subtle that few ever realize it until after they've escaped. There is a fine line between faith and that kind of phenomenon. The devil knows how to blurr that line in order to create confusion and destroy God's sheep. Marc Perez | ||
| objectiveobserver Intermediate Member Username: objectiveobserver Post Number: 195 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 67.177.211.69 |
I know its difficult for you to focus on one topic at a time when you're busy taking your daily dump on the people you hate, so just to re-focus according to Jesus Christ, to attribute the work of the Holy Spirit to Satan is blasphemy. I think its wonderful that you prefer to worship in your home, as you believe it was done in Bible days. You can however not show me any scripture that negates the way the majority of Christendom in our day and age worships, and I submit that any venue or method of promulgating the Good News that Jesus Saves is acceptable in Gods eyes and your ridicule of such endeavours is indicative that you are of your father the devil. You continue to try to ascribe to me motives that come from your twisted logic only. You have not one time seen or heard me defend NTCC doctrine, but continually point out to you the error of back-stabbing, lying, gossipping and slandering men, who have dedicated their lives to the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If you had dedicated your life to the preaching of the Gospel, instead of slandering those who do, I would defend you as well. You however have demonstrated a distinct anti-christian manner when it comes to dealing with those you hate. Who made you a ruler and a judge over any of those you slander in these threads? As far as putting out tapes and broadcasts, this is just a red-herring to further your hypocrisy. You and your satanic cronies especially that mouth-piece of satan, tracy pelfrey recently posted a recording of an NTCC preacher to make him an object of ridicule, and much fun was had at his expense, but all of you who participate in such folly will answer to a Holy God for your idle words, and making sport of those who have dedicated their lives to the preaching of the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Larry Duran (an ex'r not a hater) | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 981 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
Larry/OO, You're a walking paradox. "You have not one time seen or heard me defend NTCC doctrine..." then... "If you had dedicated your life to the preaching of the Gospel, instead of slandering those who do, I would defend you as well." This is yet another exhibit of your state of confusion, which is created by the devil. RWD, MCKEKEL, and associate leaders doctrine IS their preaching...which you do defend and if I was still preaching it (which I had for many years and you basically hadn't), then you say you'd defend me too. HA! Then you say I'm not focused on the subject at hand. Apparently you haven't read what I've posted and even if you have, you're mind is too cluttered with hate towards me and confusion in the realm of Christendom to understand it all. I had cited how that much of what was portrayed as the truth of God and the Holy Ghost was really little more than one person influencing another person to mimic the gifts of the Spirit. Then you ask for any scripture condemning the incorporating of big church assemblies as businesses. That's not the point. I stated that there is no such thing in the New Testament and I tied it in with the fact that such religious cult leadership as RWD/MCKEKEL and subordinate boardmembers are unlawfully controlling and fleecing God's sheep. My point was if families would worship in each others homes as they did in the early church, and used big public assemblies on special occasions (rather than the norm), then greedy ambitious men wouldn't be able to control and fleece God's sheep like they do. They also wouldn't be breaking up people's marriages. Obviously, if the gospel is preached, then there is a benefit even in the big corporate assemblies. NTCC, as is the case in so many other circles, laces it with so much corporate manmade garbage that people like yourself don't even know what truth is anymore. cont'd... | ||
| watchman_ct New member Username: watchman_ct Post Number: 10 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.109.67.117 |
This is so true....."One thing that is classic of many circles in the Pentecostal movement is getting people to do things...like speaking in tongues by shouting and "praying" over them with hands on heads while gyrating and making syllables that will hopefully be repeated by the person on the receiving end. I'm not saying that the speaking of tongues isn't real, but alot of it in the Pentecostal realm is because it is copied and learned from people who "got them" to do it. " We grew up in this type of HYPER-PENTECOSTAL doctrine. This is the Kalinsky format to a tee. She once tried to pray for me and the only way i could get her away from me was to FAKE IT. There is a whole generation of kids FAKING the spirit. We called the altar calls MOSH-PITS for Jesus. Which was the brain washing sessions where scores of people would flock around 1 person to make them get filled with the Holy Ghost. We avoid such churches now and look for more healthy and balanced relationships. I also like the small group home services. Which is the 'way of the future'. | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 982 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
Well said, watchman. I think it's clear that we're not implying that everything that is going on in these churches is not of the Holy Spirit, but much of it is yet it's perceived as wholesale of God. There are alot of weird things practiced and preached at places like NTCC. That's why I made the point about making tapes and broadcasts of Graham, Woodbrook, St. Louis, and Leesville services...especially when RWD, MCKEKEL, or some other Davis clone leader starts yappin'. It's not a red herring as Larry/Jerry/OO, etc would say it is. Jesus preached in the open. He had nothing to hide. Why can't Kekel and Davis do that? Why don't they preach ALL of their stuff in the streets for everyone to hear? Why don't they exalt RWD in the streets or on TV? Why don't they preach about loyalty, rules, money, etc on the TV? I can only imagine... Marc Perez | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 983 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
Now our posts condemning the abuses, lies, and fleecings by the NTCC borg leadership is being called of the devil by our esteemed quasi-exNTCCer Larry/Jerry Duran. He says he's out of NTCC, but I wonder. He may be physically out for the moment (and that's only a maybe), but he the apple hadn't fallen far from the tree because us exers are labelled as apostate by the borg and by Larry/Jerry/OO Duran. We're apostate, according to these two very upstanding/Godly sources, so it must be true. You know, Larry/Jerry/OO/exNTCCer/family member of NTCC/in NTCC/out NTCC...(wheeeewww...talk about being all over the place and double-minded in all of his ways), you ought to consider going back to NTCC and pursue full reconciliation, pray for salvation in a Davis service again, pray for the Holy Ghost in an Ashmore service again and say dowahdiddywahwah sigamosigh...pass em on by, retake bible school, and become a minister. They'll even let you get remarried for the 3rd (or more) time, just for being loyal. Remember - salvation and loyalty to borg are inseparable to these guys, so they'll assume you were just never saved so your 2 prior marriages and adulteries won't stop them from sanctioning another marriage...after all...they gain another laboring couple. Think about it, Larry. Your exes won't be there. Bro Hampton is still in but he's way over in Mexico, Missouri and you'll only see him about twice per year. Davis will just tell him to forgive you and if he's loyal enough, he'll not only do that but he'll also dare not even look at you wrong lest he incur the wrath of Davis. You can start laboring for God behind their corporate pulpits again. Home preaching isn't legit. Street preaching is for the birds. You can go Cadillac style! You'll be the prodigal son of a boardmember who will be adored and highly revered by the masses at Graham because your parents are on the board! Single 19 year old women will be easily coaxed to marry a LEADER and son of a LEADER who's made lotsa money (unless Penny cleaned you out) and ride in your luxury car like an NTCC pimpdaddy borg leader does! You should do it, guy! They'll take you back! They need preachahs! Many are leaving each and every month, so they'll dig deep to get whoever they can to fill the pulpits. There's a call come ringin' o'er the restless way, send the light...oh send the light...there are souls to rescue there are souls to save, send the light, oh send the light... Will you answer the call, Larry? Better yet, if you did all of this, would that be of the Holy Ghost? Will you give an honest answer? (Hint, it's been done before by others in NTCC with licensing/blessing and all) Marc Perez | ||
| objectiveobserver Intermediate Member Username: objectiveobserver Post Number: 196 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 67.177.211.69 |
Marc as usual your mouth continues to run on, True or False? Attributing the work of the Holy Spirit to the devil is blasphemy? I won't be baited into a personal dialogue with you.The Blood of Christ is more then sufficient to cleanse you and I of all un-righteousness. Those sins of mine that you love to spout off about were forgiven long ago my friend. It is not proper for you to bring them up, but like your cronies you feel that you are exempt from any scripture that doesn't mesh with your hatred of NTCC. I am not troubled by your spewings, and will continue to point out that there is no scriptural precedent for gossiping about, slandering, or back-biting of good Christian men who have dedicated themselves to preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. Why do you quarrel with that statement? Your tongue is ruled by your master the devil, and all that emanates from your mouth are lies, slander, and railings against men who never wronged you in any way, and if any have wronged you, you are enjoined by Jesus Christ the Son of God, to forgive them, not rail against them as you always do. You are not a Christian, sir and all your windy words reveal a dark heart ruled by satan, the god of this world. Larry Duran (an ex'r not a hater) | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 985 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
I guess his buttons got pushed... All he can do is falsely charge that I'm of the devil with other lies. Men who never wronged me...HA! I make no apologies for telling the truth about NTCC and its great leaders who are perceived as the men of God above any other on this earth...who are the world's greatest hope for revival...who preaches nothing but the bible, no code, no loyalty, no kooky doctrines, no silly rules, no hyper control of children, no politics, no atmosphere that promotes preachers being too hard on their kids lest they be thought bad of the leadership, no breaking up of marriages to save one partner's loyalty, sends lots of money for missionaries and the needy, doesn't use most of the revenue for real estate, cadillacs, and the maintenance thereof, no isolation, no suppression of individuality, no looking down on other religious groups, able to relate with other members of the body of Christ in other churches, etc, etc, etc. Geez, how could I say such things against the holy and unspotted leadership of NTCC? You are definitely called to NTCC ministry and you can help change what LITTLE is wrong and benefit from so MUCH that is right!!! GORY! Marc Perez | ||
| objectiveobserver Intermediate Member Username: objectiveobserver Post Number: 197 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 67.177.211.69 |
and if they did wrong you, you are enjoined not by me but by Jesus Christ the Saviour of the world to forgive them...: True or false? No dialogue between you and I will be complete until you call me a punk, so go for it big fella  Focus on the topic if you can. If not I hear ritalin may help with your ADD. Take care my chubby friend, if you'd like I'll post your response for you, you are so predictable. Larry Duran (an ex'r not a hater) p.s. I'm off to a Christmas party so vent your spleen and I'll attend to your spewings tomorrow if the Lord wills. | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 986 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
http://www.prime.org/ Here's another pentecostal cult borg, but here they are not ashamed of their borg doctrine. They make no bones about the notion that if you're not an "ACTS 2:38 christian" then you're not saved. They are like NTCC, in that anyone who is not like them, INCLUDING THE MOST HOLY RWD and NTCC, then they are not saved. Period. No exceptions. At least Davis will say that there are a very few Christians out there, but if they hear from God, then they'll be lead to "us." Notice the numerous bible study/sermon videos, even one that's about the borgman's beard! LOL Marc Perez | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 987 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
LOL...2 funny, Larry/Jerry/OO/Duran/in NTCC/out NTCC/defend NTCC/NTCC wrong, etc, etc, etc... And I'm supposed to be out of focus? Better watch what you say about ADD...there are several NTCC preachers who have it, along with Bi-Polar, etc. Another funny paradox - Larry/Jerry/OO/Duran/exNTCC/inNTCC/sinner/Christian/defend NTCC/not defend NTCC calls me chubby...but I've been told that you are too... We have 3 major similarities: We're men, we're conservative Republicans and we're chubby. Now, as far as focus is concerned, cite me one credible/solid example where I have blasphemed the Holy Ghost. Remember, it must be irrefutable proof.  UR too funny, Jerry. Marc Perez | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 988 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
Now here is a good one - a pentecostal oneness cult preacher calling trinity/trinitarians ANTICHRISTS! http://www.prime.org/trinity_is_antichrist_sermon.html "We're just a small group here tonight...preachin' tonight about the antichrist...and why the trinity is antichrist..." He even kept his sermon at 20 minutes! This is so creepy...so similar to the style of preaching in NTCC! Marc Perez | ||
| watchman_ct New member Username: watchman_ct Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 68.109.67.117 |
Those that are blind are leading the blind. Only experiences and the Lord himself can open the eyes of the deceived. Cult followers usually only wake up by experience. Often death. Sad to say... | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1936 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.216.42.107 |
"A perfect time for Paul the apostle to condem his contemporaries as a cult, satanic, of the devil, evil, false prophets and on and on. But intstead he rejoices that Christ is preached, even when it is done in pretence." So get to rejoicing about Davis' preachin'... Well? Something just sound 'off' about that don't it? 1) As has been pointed out many times before, Davis is INDEED a preacher of contention AND competition... and much more: 'I would they were even cut off which trouble you.' (Gal 5:12) 'Brethren, be followers together of me, and mark them which walk so as ye have us for an ensample. (For many walk, of whom I have told you often, and now tell you even weeping, that they are the enemies of the cross of Christ: Whose end is destruction, whose God is their belly, and whose glory is in their shame, who mind earthly things.)' (Phillip 3:17-19) 'Take heed therefore unto yourselves, and to all the flock, over the which the Holy Ghost hath made you overseers, to feed the church of God, which he hath purchased with his own blood. For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock. Also of your own selves shall men arise, speaking perverse things, to draw away disciples after them.' (Acts 20:28) So, exactly WHO was Paul speaking of here? Don't sound too rejoiceful to me, but rather FULL OF WARNINGS AND GRIEFS ABOUT THEM: Preachers of the gospel among those present with him at that time... who would depart from the gospel he preached, and the doctrine of the 12 apostles, and lay grievous burdens of their own commandments to the point of becoming enemies of the very cross they once preached, and then even grievously find-fault with Paul later on, even as the Jewish synagogue-builders (Matthew 23:4)(Acts 25:7)(1 Cor 9:1-3)(Gal 1:6-9)(1 John 5:3) (SIGH. There I go answering my own question again, and going off in all that drastic anti-cult, anti-anti-christian judgment stuff. And with those pesky Scriptures taken out of context and wrongly applied to boot! Speaking of jack-booted thugs in Boot-camp Pulpits, would such grievous things EVER apply to Davis-types? Nah... Not Davis! Rejoice about him! Yea! Yipee! I'm soo happyyy about Davis preachin'!!) "Hey, he may destroy them that hear his preachin'... too long, but at least he's preachin', right? right?" | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1937 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.216.42.107 |
2) Being contentious, wrongly competitive for the saints' affections and pulpit popularity is INDEED a most common malady amongst most ALL Christians and ministers at one time or another in their times, especially as novices, first-timers, etc... (Which is why Scripture shows we are to ALREADY have succeeded in our own Christian careers to our own satisfaction, then retiring from such elderly things in order to devote ourselves to the service of the saints in Jesus' church: Prayer and ministry of the Word... ONLY! No pursued building, administration, and business programs made up for success: Do that stuff in the REAL business world and community... FIRST!) HOWEVER: MOST such novices either get over it, grow out of it, or get out of the ministerial commitment altogether, but a FEW best-of-the-worst, worst-of-the-best types NEVER repent of such things but rather go on to make a whole personal church, organization, and business out of it! Whereby, they become fully-leavened with the righteousness & necessity of their own commandments, doctrines, and programs, to the point where they are not JUST those who preach with contention (yet are still beneficial preachers of the gospel) but go on to make themselves false apostles and otherwise great church 'Leaders' that are not just 'flawed' but in fact of their means and results shown to be the upgraded (or rather degraded) version of grievous wolves, dominators, and destroyer-types (Hello Davis!) like Diotrephes (and the rest of his Nicolas-follower buddies in the personal-church building business of his day), who are SO CONTENTIOUS about it all, after having been given to it for so long, that they are grievous and wolfish about it. They are not just 'erring' in it but are contrary and antogonistic to that very gospel they preached, even to shutting-out one of the 12 in order to isolate-off his own church memebers for loyalty's sake! (3 John 9) Thus also do the Davis-type apostles today who shut-out the 12 apostles' doctrine of the Scriptures in order to keep his own followers proselytized, recruited, and CULTIZED to himself... You think? Nah! Just a bunch of misapplied and jerked-out Scriptures that make absolutely NO sense at all and have absolutely NO resemblance to Davis-types at all... and TOO MANY words to boot (!) So: "Hey, he may destroy them that hear his preachin'... too long, but at least he's preachin'!" Davis-types are no longer just contenders in the ministry, but rather are the For-Real First-place winners, First before the throne, First before the church, and First before anyone else who was ever there! (Ha! This is just too easy!) But, it's either all wrong or just plain too far and too deeply cutting, so: NEVERMIND | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1945 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.218.104 |
"The Apostle Paul or the Apostle Derrick." We're both right about self-made apostles and dominating destroyers of the sheep in the name of church-building success. I'm right, because I agree with Paul, and Paul is right, because he agreed with Jesus. I'm baaack! And I ain't changed a bit... God is still God, the devil is still the devil, God's preachers minister to serve the sheep, and Davis-types minister to serve themselves at the expense of the sheep (!) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1946 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.218.104 |
Holy Hill, So, where in what I deliberately (not idly) posted at the outset is blasphemy or untamed? You see, I also deliberately wrote the phrase 'all of about 5 seconds', because I have spent all of about 5 years ALREADY learning, believing, and concluding these things. You ask a question (actually you judge in a questionable sort of way) that has already been asked long ago by myself and has been fully answered for me as well. It's like asking in a college calculus course, "Are we sure 2 + 2 = 4?". And the answer after all of about 5 seconds is YES! Followed up with the thought, "Where in the world did that come from, and why?? Maybe this fellow needs to go back to grade school and learn it all over again..." You see, you are simply a novice at what is going on here at Factnet in relation to what Davis really is in God's eyes (if not in some men's). You're suddenly being shown things that are simply to0 evil and far gone for you to fully accept, and so you withdraw from it in distaste and horror. You've simply reached the end of YOUR rope on Factnet (but not the end of God's chain, that He wants to wrap around the devil... (Rev 20:1-2)) Which is perfectly understandable among many people who were not really believing and following Davis enough in his every word and persuasion to know that such devotion to Davis, WHICH IS WHAT HE WANTS AND MINISTERS FOR, is so wrong, anti-christian, and destructive. However, this IS Factnet, and as one man said, it's not for the feint at heart, and so those of a weaker conscience simply ought not be getting to invlolved with it, because the very purpose of Factnet was establish on the basis of the strong meat of cult exposure. (Not nice nay-sayings about decent but flawed ministers...) There are many more sociable groups of exers, that are more apropriate and accomodating a place for the less-warlike among us, which is perfectly fine. When I visit them, I do not try to intrusively add Factnet stuff into their conversations, and when they visit here, they ought not try to intrusively take away from the Factnet purpose. (Which it truly is a war with swords and bows. Which is which, is for the reader to decide...) And DAVIS STARTED IT, not I. I've repented of it, Not he. And so you want me to repent some more to be more like you, who really didn't have to repent so much, because you never really went that far into it... (You see, you smartly did not take the trip overseas at Davis' word. I did. Not only at his word, but even at the word of his lieutenant Kinson.) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1947 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.218.104 |
"I sincerely thank you (Bryan Hill) for bringing some apparently prayerful, scriptural balance to these threads. God bless you and yours Larry Duran (an ex'r but not a hater,)" Larry Duran (Ashmore's son-in-law) (Man, what is it with being an in-law? Mikey, now Larry) And so we see the conclusion of the matter concerning Davis-isn't-that-bad: Hill (Who is no longer asking why, but rather is telling us how it really ought to be) and Duran (Who was smart enough also to not go too far for Davis, because he saw it all from the inside as an Ashmore- without EVER warning anyone...) Bryan and Larry sittn' in a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G! Birds of a feather, they do flock together Like minds think alike. So, the lukewarm would sooner be in bed with their 'friends' on the other side of the aisle, than to endure the heat of their 'allies'... | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1948 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.218.104 |
"Not to mention the term "Full Gospel" is certainly not THE GOSPEL but her version of it and it is certainly not FULL as they advertise. Also, the church is also NOT INTERDENOMINATIONAL. There is nothing interdenominational about it. It is their own cult and no one else can participate unless you line up with their screwed up teachings." Watchman is watching out for us! I have found that ministers who tag or prefix their preaching with 'special' names like, Full Gospel, Fundemental, Holiness, etc... are more than usual ending up in pride and building their special church groups as distinctly separated from the other normal, run-of-the-mill, not so full, fundemental, holiness, and special in their ministering... thus no longer having the Spirit of God they began with at the cross (Jude 19) In the end they fulfill Jesus' warning about those who claim special privilege and commission concerning His gospel, and some (LIKE DAVIS) to the point of of declaring, Here is Christ! Here He is, over here... with me! Not over there... with them! (Matthew 24:23-24) (Who's proud and dirty end is destruction, not heaven...) I mean, after all, the gospel, the one and only gospel, the really true-blue gospel is really very simple and plain and well-known: Jesus Christ and Him crucifed and resurrected on the 3rd day according to the Scriptures... (1 Cor 15:1-4) I.e: Just preach the 'normal' well-known gospel already delivered unto us in the Scriptures (Jude 3), and things will be just fine for them that believe... "We have the RIGHT message!" Olson: Graham. "The Best of the Best!" Olson: Graham (His message summing up Davis-type of ministry) "If the rest of the churches are getting the job done, then why are we here?!" Davis: Graham 1) Don't you know? 2) 'It' (the ministry) is not a JOB! (Poor guy, but he just can't help himself. After all, it's just all about the business...) 2) The other normal-kind ARE doing good, so the devil brings your-types in to 'help' foul it up! The MOST harm and destruction to the elect sheep are NOT the take away 'compromisers', but rather are the add-on folks who really do think they are so special, that EVERYONE ELSE simply must be like themselves, in order to be like Christ Himself (!) (Matthew 24:24) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1949 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.218.104 |
"We avoid such churches now and look for more healthy and balanced relationships. I also like the small group home services. Which is the 'way of the future'." Watching-out-for-us Which also happens to be the way of the Scriptures! Paul spoke mostly of the churches as 'so and so's house, NOT because they couldn't meet in buildings and scuh (Paul did for years in Ephesus and Corinth), but because God's ministry begins and continues primarily in the home according to His will. The big 'get-em-out-to-church' promotion and mentality of many wanna-be builders detracts from and even destroys families ministering at home. The cult-types (LIKE DAVIS) even come to the point of mocking home ministering, even as they do witnessing rather than just 'inviting them out' to Davis church... for success and profit. "You bring people HERE to get them savbed, because THIS is where the gospel is preached!" Davis: Graham (Getting angry at people who spend time witnessing, when they ought be inviting (!)) 1) The ONLY ministering that really takes place with God's blessing is around his pulpit. 2) We don't 'get' people saved but rather lift up Jesus by the cross, and believers 'get' themselves saved by the grace of God. 3) Davis is a 'go-getting' businessman in a pulpit for the purpose of personal profit, to the point of personally destructive cultism. Eating at home is the mainstay of Christian ministering. Going to church is like eating out (!) "Can you only live by eating once a week?!" Kinson, Tillicum (Pushing for more church attendance through the week... for his ministerial success) No. Which is why people ought be eating at home more often in their ministering. The real question is, "Can you live on eating out once a week?" Indeed, and even once every two or three weeks, IF we are eating at home as we ought! A further question would really be, "Who can afford to eat-out all the time??" Retired citizens, or cult-Leaders building churches with nothing else to do! |
