| Author | Message | ||
     cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 194 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
OK, last year at this time, I jokingly wished all the Peterites a "Merry Christmas", and a bunch of you former Peterites slapped me down, saying I had offended them too! Let me start this discussion by asking any of you who STILL disgree with Christmas, WHY? At least consider one thing -- is it POSSIBLE that your anti-Christmas beliefs originated with the Peterites' errant teachings? Is that possible? I've had personal experiences with ex-Peterites who, years after leaving the domination of Mike, they still don't vote and they are totally cut off from fellowship with a body of Christian believers -- because they don't want to go to an "attendance-based church". Unfortunately, Mike's hideous teachings sink in pretty deep to some of you -- is it possible that this is also true with Christmas? I ask all of this because this truly IS such a wonderful time of the year! There truly is an air of "love, joy, and peace", and it's the one time of the year when many people are truly thinking about Jesus. Many (including me) have found this is a time when hearts are softer towards accepting Jesus into their lives. I've experienced that myself! A few weeks ago, one of my children was in a dramatic production of Dickens' "Christmas Carol". As I watched, I realized that God Himself truly inspired Mr. Dickens to write that book, and it truly has a wonderful message. As I watched, there were some ex-Peterites in the room, and so I thought of this cult. I realized that Mike and the Peterites really ARE a modern creation of Ebenezer Scrooge. While they don't hate everyone, as Scrooge did, they merely hate all "pagans", which is everyone except them! | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 195 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
I wanted to add to this discussion a review of WHY Mike condemns Christmas. The best explanation can be found on his website at: www<dot>yourkingdomcome<dot>com/xmas<dot>htm Basically his main three reasons for opposing Christmas are: 1) The "roots" of December 25th as a Roman festival celebration to demon-gods. Apparently, over 1,900 years ago, this date was used for a very different purpose. Even if we can trust that they're correct about this, isn't this kind of silly and childish? What if we find out that July 4th was once a pagan festival date -- should we then not patriotically celebrate our nation's independence? What if I find out that one of my children's birthdays is on a similar "evil historical date" -- should I then deny my child his/her birthday celebration? Can you sense me rolling my eyes? To deny your children, your family, and yourself the joy of Christmas over something that happened almost 2 thousand years ago is .... spiritually immature! 2) The celebration of Jesus birth is "hypocritical". Clearly Mike thinks this. He is quite bothered that all of these "attendance-based" (read: non-Peterite) churches are actually filled with preaching about, singing about, and thinking about Jesus. Since, if you do not subscribe to Peterite teaching you are -- by definition -- a "pagan", it really offends them if we are actually finding some JOY in Jesus! Take a look at this quote from the above website: "And in the middle of rebellious sin, people sing, 'Silent night, HOLY night.' In reality, it's children of satan singing songs about Jesus. God sees it as blasphemy because their hearts are far from Him. The Father is not pleased; He is angry." They are SO offended that we are worshipping Jesus at this time of year that they claim they know God's heart -- that the Father God is ANGRY when HE hears "Silent Night". For those of you who have moved on from Peterite teaching,and DO sing "Silent Night", think about THAT next time you do! 3) Christmas promotes "Family Idolatry". Take a look at another quote from the above website: "Materialism, gluttony, selfishness, suicide, greed, pride, self-righteousness, family idolatry, hypocrisy with strangers and family members and all the like are in the air, in abundance." To me, this is the MOST hideous of Mike's anti-Christmas reasons! He simply does NOT want families (or Phamilies, as he calls them) getting closer. If a biological family gathers together and has a wonderful Christmas time together, the biological family draws closer together -- and guess what? Mike is losing some control over them! What he simply cannot permit of his followers is for his flock to be going to visit with their extended families on Christmas Eve. There is no bigger day for families to gather together! If you celebrate Christmas, there is no day of the year when you more want to be with family. But if Mike can convince you that Christmas is evil, you won't have that temptation to go and spend time with your "pagan" (non-cultic) family. | ||
| joythruchrist Intermediate Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 180 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
CF, you know I love ya, right? But I can't be with you on this one. I think that many people who do not celebrate Christmas are doing so out of personal conviction. As one of my Christian, non-Indy friends who does not celebrate Christmas said to me, the Christmas season has a 'spirit' all its own. There truly is a huge amount of materialism and only a tiny amount of glory to God given at this time of year. And I wonder why it is that a huge percentage of suicides also occur at this time of year? Why is it that there is supposedly such a spirit of peace and love and emphasis on Jesus only at this time of year as you mentioned it? Shouldn't we be that way all year instead of just at some special season? Shouldn't our messages focus on Jesus all year? And if Paul made it a point to say "For I determined to know nothing among you except Jesus Christ, and Him crucified", shouldn't that be our main focus all year instead of such a huge focus on His birth at this time of year? If you have a lovely time with your family at Christmas and you all give glory to God, I think that's wonderful. But I don't believe we can take someone else's convictions and blow holes in them. The only problem I would have with the Peters' group in this matter is if it was mandatory that they do not celebrate or visit with their families because Mike says so. It should really be a matter of personal conviction. | ||
| lauramarie Member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 90 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
I have never lived in Indy, but the teachings affected me and my family 15 years ago. My husband calls me scrooge. I listened to what mike had to say and believed it. I stopped participating in any Christmas celebrations. There WERE things about it I hated!! Mostly the materialism, the DEBT, the stress to have a good time, etc. I now realize that some people are softer towards Jesus at this time of year and might be reached with love. I still refuse to participate in putting up a Christmas tree and buck the presents thing, but as the years go by, I see that my family still enjoys celebrating Christmas and I can enjoy with them or ruin the day. It's my choice. It's what I make it. I find myself on occasion driving slower in front of a house with pretty lights, looking at them. They may be a stressor to the ones who put them up, or they may be a gift. We all know Jesus wasn't born on December 25 but as we focus on the gift of Jesus and life, I don't have a problem with that. I'm sure we could find some pagan holiday for just about anything. I have a friend that was found in a dumpster as a baby in the 1950's. I guess her parents were young and couldn't keep her? We don't know when she was really born, but we celebrate that she was born and on a day that was just picked. I don't know if any of this means anything, but mike challenged some of my rituals at Christmas. I didn't just stop the ones I hated, I got rid of Christmas all together and that was just as bad as not doing anything. The extreme. Celebrate if you are at peace about it. Don't if you aren't. Each day IS a gift from God. | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 196 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Lauramarie's attitude is PERFECT!! "I see that my family still enjoys celebrating Christmas and I can enjoy with them or ruin the day. It's my choice." You can either participate in the JOY with those who love you -- or you can be a Peterite Scrooge. You don't have to violate your convictions to just participate in the joy and get closer with your family. JoythruChrist: Please re-read my posts and understand my point (and my challenge): I am NOT putting down anyone's personal convictions! I am simply challenging those of us who know how EVIL this cult is to take a better look at their convictions and determine if ANY of them come from their days under Mike's iron rule. If your convictions come from Peterism, they are probably wrong! Regarding the suicide thing: Wanna know why there are more suicides at this time of the year than any other? Two reasons: (1) Physical darkness; and (2) Clinical depression. Literally, darker places have higher suicide rates. Alaska always has the highest suicide rates of any state. Why? It's the darkest state -- the sun is up the shortest. So when is it darkest in the USA? December -- in fact the darkest day of the year is just 4 days before Christmas! Secondly, there are those who are clinically depressed. When they see everyone around them full of joy -- and they are unable (for clinical reasons) to share that joy, sadly some of them respond with suicide. So what's the answer? Should we all walk around like somber-faced Peterites, never smiling? NO! It probably really bugs Mike, but many of the "attendance-based churchs" he condemns do a LOT of reaching out to depressed people at Christmas time -- for this very reason! | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 200 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.45.92 |
I would have to start by saying it is absolutely possible that those of us who have heard Mike's thoughts about Christmas could have some confusion and/or could be making their decisions based upon that teaching. Mike's teachings have to do a lot with a person's psyche rather than with the heart, at least in my experience. There is something about a LOT of what he says and how he says it that you feel like things are what you HAVE to do. He imposes his own convictions and judgments about things on people in subtle and manipulative ways. I know that I experienced a walk and a relationship with the Lord prior to Mike Peters. It was REAL and PRECIOUS. One Christmas we had an ABUNDANCE of presents for our 2 little children. As they opened and opened and opened their presents someone mentioned, "It's a bit overwhelming isn't it." Now this person had no idea that that comment was used by God to gently and quietly and LOVINGLY convict my heart and spirit about materialism. In my heart and quietly before God unbeknownst to anyone around me I uttered to the Lord, "Lord I am sorry, I will never to THIS to our children again." And with that it was OVER. I didn't go around with a long solemn face, I didn't have a spirit of superiority, I never mentioned to anyone there that it happened (I simply changed how I did things from then on), I didn't even suffer from guilt. There was, however, JOY at the interaction with God. The Lord just wanted me to recognise something and I did and it was over. As time went on there was always more the Lord wanted me to learn and grow in and that was GREAT. He was not a heavy handed task master like Mike Peters and he was gentle and patient with me as he molded me and shaped me into HIS image. Then, in comes Mike with his superior, sarcastic, demeaning, intimidating, threatening, lording over, save the day..., teachings and the gentle, quiet, patient instruction of the Lord became buried beneath the heavy leadership hand of Mike Peters. To this day I STILL have to sift through Mike's teachings and brainwashing to try to find what is the will of the Lord, "that which is good and acceptable and perfect". I find myself over many decisions reverting back to things Mike said rather than what scripture said. And the two are NOT the same. Mike has an altogether different spirit than the WORD of God. The Lord's brings LIFE and LIBERTY. Mike's brings bondage and control. If I could completely wipe out my time under Mike Peters' and all the words he said that manipulated and controlled my thoughts rather than change my character as the Word of the Lord did, I would do it in a heartbeat. I would LOVE to know what I would think about numerous things without having to go through "date processing" to sift out what was Mike and what IS JESUS. I just want my concern to be the PURE unadulterated Word of the Lord and never give Mike Peters and his twisted distortion of what God's will is another thought. I don't know where I would be right now this minute or what MY convictions would be on Christmas or anything else had I never been involved with Mike Peters because his teachings HAVE had a negative effect on ME. As I said in the beginning, they get into your psyche and not your heart. Good thoughts from you all, btw.  (Message edited by baxter on December 12, 2007) | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 197 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Thanks, Baxter. You are understanding EXACTLY why I brought this up!! Please folks, challenge yourselves and explore why you have the convictions you have. If they are from God, great. But if they are from an EVIL cultist, change your convictions! One more thing: Take a look above at the 3 reasons why Mike attacks Christmas, and look at his third reason: FAMILY! Mike hates it when families are close. A major advocate of using Christmas to draw families together is Dr. James Dobson, America's leading spokesman for the family. Mike is the anti-Dobson. | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 201 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.45.99 |
Something else I thought as I was writing the response above and I pictured the "simplicity" in being convicted about the excess in our giving of gifts to our children. Had this been an Indy experience, it would have been something to "share" with a microphone in my hand to convince myself and others I had a relationship with God. I mean, your entire existence is to have something to share at a meeting so no one would think you were just a "spectator". The scenario goes like this...Silent thoughts: "Should I say something? How will it be perceived? Would it be right or am I acting out of the flesh? Am I trying to 'prove' something? Will I get in trouble? Will I be rebuked? Will I be publicly humiliated?..." Then when convinced you should "share", you clear your throat hoping nothing gets caught when you start to speak and you ask "can I have the microphone?" You hold it for a moment as you gain courage and composure and then you begin to speak in that same dull droll (actually, I think it's more "I'm spiritually speaking the word of God HERE" voice) everyone possesses once that microphone gets in their hands. "As I was going to the store last night, I was really convicted of it being Satan's hour and I had no business being out after dark..." (just for example) Then, you are heavy laden as you "see" your dark, depraved heart. AND you are glad you had something to share at a gathering, lest anyone think you need to go get some oil. | ||
| joythruchrist Intermediate Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 181 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
CF, I read your posts twice before I posted, and I think I understand them pretty well. Perhaps you didn't understand me. Some of the people who are ex-Indy didn't observe Christmas before they ever even heard of Peters. And I'm sure there are many Christians worldwide who don't, who also never heard of Peters. He did not originate those beliefs. And I stand by my post where I said that if it is mandatory to not observe Christmas in Indy, that is wrong. And as far as your "challenge", for those who are ex-Indy, I'm sure they've already spent much time examining their convictions after leaving that place. | ||
| lauramarie Member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 91 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
Baxter, I have only been to a couple gatherings but I've listened to the tapes numerous times. I guess I listened over and over to make sure I got it. Anyway, you are exactly right. "If it's OK, I'd like to share....." and then the emotionless monotone begins. The life, joy and excitement that I saw in my family members was lost once they moved to Indy and I realized even when talking with them on the phone, my own voice became emotionless and monotone. (mmmmmm) It's like when you move somewhere new and you hear new words or accents and you start (unintentionally) incorporating them into your speech. It's usually the ones that you actually like and think are pretty cool. (I have noticed it in myself and others) I got the feeling from Indy that since EVERYONE talked the same way you start feeling like that is the acceptable, "spiritual" way to talk and offer things. But it's not me, only what I allow myself to become in that environment. And the real people in my family are what I miss. Their excitement, their laughter. The talk is all the same there, same words, same responses, same emotionless speech. Sad. Sorry for the rambling, but the pictures flooded my mind when I read your post... | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 198 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Joy, a couple things: 1. When you say "I'm sure they've already spent much time examining their convictions after leaving that place." Not to make a blanket statement here, but then WHY are so many former Peterites that I know totally out of fellowship with any local church?? This is a clear violation of Hebrews 10:25, and why do they do it? "Because all the local churches are 'attendance-based' and full of hypocrites!" And where do they get such "wisdom"?? The same place that MANY (not all) were taught that Christmas is evil. 2. No matter which side you all are on this Christmas thing -- isn't it AMAZING that Mike so clearly has tied his anti-Christmas stance to his anti-FAMILY stance?? Does there remain any doubt out there that this cultic group, the Peterites, are clear enemies of godly, strong families? | ||
| lauramarie Member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 92 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
Maybe mike never had a good time at Christmas and from what I read, didn't seem like he was close to his family either. Maybe these are things that he thought would make his life easier and made it law for his followers. It's possible. HE had problems with "Christmas" and maybe felt that everyone had the same problems and didn't want to deal with them by ignoring the "holiday" all together, so "our little group" will not acknowledge it at all. I remember a young family member (one that has grown up in Indy) when only around 5 to 8 years old saying to me "Christmas? What's THAT?" I happen to know that Christmas was celebrated when that person was under 5 and I know any child that goes to any store around the holiday would wonder about the decorations. A logical time to discuss it, but the child acted like it didn't exist. Not that it was something that some people celebrated and some don't, but it didn't exist. Children have too many questions and I'm sure this person and their siblings have all had questions but probably never felt like they could even ask and get a logical or honest response. Just my thoughts..... | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 202 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.47.171 |
Mike is very cynical about "phamilies", thus his spelling. I was reading his "Physically Phamily" article for which he bases his defense. He says that God only viewed things through the "spiritual", that our families are those who are born again. While that is true, that does not mean we are to shun and ignore our earthly families. While Jesus did respond to his mother, "Know you not that I must be about my Father's business?" He still went and was subject to his parents. Jesus wasn't cynical and derogatory toward families as I hear in the things Mike says and the practices of the group there. I have heard accounts of couples in Indy, though married, the wife treats her husband as a scoundrel and does things with her "spiritual" family and does not include the husband because he is NOT FAMILY only because he doesn't bite off everything Mike tries to shove down everyone's throat as truth. It is the same for the women who have husband's that idolize Mike and therefore treat their wives with contempt and isolation. Although, typically it is usually the wife who ends up idolizing Mike and shunning the husband. This is in total disobedience to 1 Pet 3:1-6 "In the same way, you wives, be submissive to your own husbands so that even if any of them are disobedient to the word, they may be won without a word by the behavior of their wives, as they observe your chaste and respectful behavior. Your adornment must not be merely external--braiding the hair, and wearing gold jewelry, or putting on dresses; but let it be the hidden person of the heart, with the imperishable quality of a gentle and quiet spirit, which is precious in the sight of God. For in this way in former times the holy women also, who hoped in God, used to adorn themselves, being submissive to their own husbands; just as Sarah obeyed Abraham, calling him lord, and you have become her children if you do what is right without being frightened by any fear." And what about this: I Tim. 5:3 "Honor widows that are widows indeed. 4 But if any widow hath children or grandchildren, let them learn first to show piety towards their own family, and to requite their parents: for this is acceptable in the sight of God. 5 Now she that is a widow indeed, and desolate, hath her hope set on God, and continueth in supplications and prayers night and day. 6 But she that giveth herself to pleasure is dead while she liveth. 7 These things also command, that they may be without reproach. 8 But if any provideth not for his own, and specially his own household, he hath denied the faith, and is worse than an unbeliever."? Is there a stipulation somewhere that it should ONLY be those who are born again? (continued...) (Message edited by baxter on December 14, 2007) (Message edited by baxter on December 14, 2007) | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 203 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.47.170 |
It's a VERY easy thing to be a pharisee and look down your nose at everyone. It's easy to sit in judgment of others. It's easy for us as humans to have a spirit of superiority over others. It is much more difficult to love those who don't love us or agree with us or think like we think. That is why Jesus said, Luke 6:27 ¶ "But I say to you who hear, love your enemies, do good to those who hate you, Luke 6:28 bless those who curse you, pray for those who mistreat you. Luke 6:29 "Whoever hits you on the cheek, offer him the other also; and whoever takes away your coat, do not withhold your shirt from him either. Luke 6:30 "Give to everyone who asks of you, and whoever takes away what is yours, do not demand it back. Luke 6:31 "Treat others the same way you want them to treat you. Luke 6:32 "If you love those who love you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners love those who love them. Luke 6:33 "If you do good to those who do good to you, what credit is that to you? For even sinners do the same. Luke 6:34 "If you lend to those from whom you expect to receive, what credit is that to you? Even sinners lend to sinners in order to receive back the same amount. Luke 6:35 "But love your enemies, and do good, and lend, expecting nothing in return; and your reward will be great, and you will be sons of the Most High; for He Himself is kind to ungrateful and evil men. Luke 6:36 "Be merciful, just as your Father is merciful. Luke 6:37 ¶ "Do not judge, and you will not be judged; and do not condemn, and you will not be condemned; pardon, and you will be pardoned. Luke 6:38 "Give, and it will be given to you. They will pour into your lap a good measure--pressed down, shaken together, and running over. For by your standard of measure it will be measured to you in return." And the children who witness the "convictions" of their parents, they know where they get their "orders" from. When I lived there, even though I was "careful" to not make it seem like Mike was the head honcho, our children could see through the facade when they innocently asked "if Mike Peters says we can go, can we go see gramma?" Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 199 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Baxter said: When I lived there, even though I was "careful" to not make it seem like Mike was the head honcho, our children could see through the facade when they innocently asked "if Mike Peters says we can go, can we go see gramma?" >> WOW, that's both amazing & scary! Sure wish one of the Peterites would HONESTLY comment on that! But I suppose they'd just say "You're lying". Too bad they're too arrogant to accept truth. Lauramarie: I remember a young family member (one that has grown up in Indy) when only around 5 to 8 years old saying to me "Christmas? What's THAT?" >> I wonder, however, what these poor children think when they look down the street and see all the Christmas lights on OTHER houses. What do the parents tell them? Having driven through the Peterite commune at Christmastime, it's really a weird and eerie sight -- there's a very beautiful decorated neighborhood and then suddenly ... NOTHING! Just pure DARKNESS! Darkness for house after house. | ||
| joythruchrist Intermediate Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 182 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
CF, you didn't forget my name is Jen, did you? I know this thread you started is about Christmas, but since you brought up church attendance... I don't believe Hebrews 10:25 is specifically talking about church attendance. It says to not forsake the assembling of yourselves together. Can that apply to a church meeting? Of course. But it can also apply to a small group, meeting together in someone's home to have a meal and some Bible study and prayer. Or even just two Christians meeting together. I read nothing about formalities or numbers of people in Hebrews 10:25. And I believe that most of the ex-members still do get together with other brothers and sisters. It is very true that there is a lot wrong with many, many churches today. If yours is God honouring and preaches the Word in season and out, that's wonderful. But many are not so blessed as to find such a corporate gathering and so we meet with other believers outside a church setting. Now, as to your second point: "No matter which side you all are on this Christmas thing -- isn't it AMAZING that Mike so clearly has tied his anti-Christmas stance to his anti-FAMILY stance?? Does there remain any doubt out there that this cultic group, the Peterites, are clear enemies of godly, strong families?" Agreed. Except for the "amazing" part. I don't find it all that amazing after all I've heard from former members here on FACTnet and in private communications. For Mike to allow outside family contact might mean he'd lose some control. And there are clearly serious problems with marriages in the group when the wives look to Mike as their spiritual head instead of their husbands, and apparently with a reverence due to Christ alone! | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 200 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Jen, my statement about the "former Peterites" I know wasn't meant to be a blanket statement. The ones I know are NOT getting much fellowship anywhere, and are getting their "wisdom" and "counsel" from the internet and email. Some are making huge lifetime decisions with no real spiritual leadership counseling them. I totally believe all Christians should be "committed" to some body of believers, whether it's a "church" with a building or a house church. We all need to be serving other Christians, we all need the fellowship of Christian friends, and we all need the counsel of spiritual leaders. Whether or not that comes from an organized "church" is not important. Again, though, my main problem would be IF the anti-"church attendance" views come from Peters. IF they do, they are wrong! It's possible to come to the same conclusions as the Peterites on some things, but if your wisdom is coming from THEIR teachings, then it's the wisdom of Hell. | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 201 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Pro- or anti-Christmas, I urge everyone reading this to watch a version of Dickens' Christmas Carol this month. Or read the book, or go out and see it as a play. Would ANYONE argue that this wonderful story was not inspired by God Himself? It's the classic story of a transformed heart -- exactly what Christianity is all about! And to answer Mike's critique that Christmas is hypocritical because people are only joyful and compassionate at this time of year -- and not the rest of the year: Well, read/listen closely to what Scrooge says in his transformation. He promises to "keep Christmas all year long", which of course, is what we all should do! The sad thing: I'm guessing that all of the little Peterite children NEVER even get exposed to this wonderful story. Do they???? | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 411 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.101 |
Does anyone have film footage of Peters teaching that they can post a link to? Or an audio recording online (would prefer the video)? | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 204 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.45.96 |
Hello, saygoodnightgracie! You must have missed it, but I posted a link to your question over here (http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/40603.html?1196968372). At any rate, here is the link again...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oVr8Jelobs4 You know, of course, they have several audio recordings at their allathisfeet web site. | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 205 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.45.96 |
That reminds me, I was thinking of the different teachings that are on Mike Peters' website, www.allathisfeet.com, and I find it rather revealing of the TRUE nature of the group there, that as Mike condemns and snubs and scorns "attendance based" and groups that are not under his influence for MANY reasons, one of those reasons is that they only seem to utilize one gift of the body (that being the preacher. With that said, why is it that I haven't stumbled across any recordings displaying any other gift other than HIS. If someone has heard of a recording on his site that has anyones's "giftedness" other than Mike's please direct me to it. I think you will find that it is more of a "one man show" than he would like to let on. Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com (Message edited by baxter on December 19, 2007) | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 206 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.47.170 |
http://www.indianapoliscult.com/allatmikesfeet/forum/topic.asp?whichpage=3&TOPIC_ID=10Ž Just a reminder for those concerned and interested, their is another forum in regard to Mike Peters group(s). | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 423 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.101 |
bax thanks for the link.. merry christmas! | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 202 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.156.83.144 |
So it's Christmas Eve and my family has just gone to bed. We've had a WONDERFUL evening of "Family Idolatry" -- as if there is such a thing! These are the times that make being a FAMILY so special! Twenty, 30, 40 years from now, we'll all look back at the special memories we had together tonight. And it makes me SAD for all the poor little Peterite children, sitting in their barracaded Peterite houses, looking out their windows and down the streets at all the pretty Christmas lights, wondering at what wonderful things are happening in the other neighbors' houses. For you EX-Peterites, seriously, what's it like being a Peterite on Christmas Eve or Day. Isn't there some regret, some sadness at what you're missing? Just wondering. | ||
| lauramarie Member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 93 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
I wonder if you can miss something you never had? I guess it all depends on how the parents explain it to the children. If they had wonderful memories of Christmas past where family and friends had wonderful times together, it is probably hard to keep telling yourself this is "bad". If your Christmas memories were of more drunk family members, yelling, stress, it's probably easier to share with your children that it's a pagan holiday and we shouldn't get involved. It just seems that Christmas is what you make it. Celebrate or not. Give gifts or don't. Your children will hopefully remember any good things about their childhood whether it was Christmas or just their father spending time with them and laughing and hugging or going to a (my passion) a hockey game together. I think Jesus can open the hearts of anyone He wants to about what Christmas can/should mean to them. If it's part of His desire that you share what Jesus means to you at this time of year, go for it. As for family time, my in-laws opened their home last night to a person on "my" side of the family that I barely know myself. They opened their door to him, he stayed the night, he ate with them and opened gifts with them. That is what they have been about ever since I met them many years ago. They have been accused by their CII family members of "worshiping a different, carnal Jesus", but I see real pouring out of life and time and gifts from them that can rival anybody at CII. They have shown me how to share my life and gifts from God, not my family in CII. I only get how I should do things but since I cannot see them in person, I don't get to see any of it in action. Anyway, just some thoughts..... | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 207 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.45.100 |
What makes me sad is the lack of choices. God gives us the choice of following Him, he does not rule us with an iron fist. The people under Mike Peters' authority say what they know is acceptable to say. They are afraid of being rejected by God which is, in their minds, equal to Mike Peters. Even if your heart has any desire or interest in things not embraced by the group, you continually try and rid yourself of such feelings and brush them aside as being "not of God", "Blessed is the man who does not condemn himself by what he approves." Rom.14:22b They know how those things are spoken of and they have seen the results of those who questioned or did not embrace those rules and regulations. Even if the conviction is not yours, you will continually condemn yourself and convince yourself that those desires are sinful and therefore numb yourself to those things and desires that are not embraced under Mike's authority. Mike condemns church leaders who have any deviates under their "watch", so he will be diligent to rule so that that cannot be said of him as he boast everywhere of his group and followers. However, it has NO value against fleshly indulgence. Give those people and children a chance to be without his CONTROL and they will either go insane or perhaps reject God all together. I am convinced that he has so conditioned these people that they cannot function without his control. I pray that they will someday see through the haze. | ||
| lauramarie Member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 94 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
Baxter, you are right and thank you for reminding me that since I have not lived under mike I forget the controlling spirit that lives there. I forget there may be those who long in their heart to worship a certain way but the fear of rejection and ridicule is too great. They could lose everything that sustains them in their bubble in Indianapolis (or what ever city they are in one of mike's "groups") The fear and control keeps them living and performing as mike tells them is the only acceptable way. I am sure any "longings" for a time of happiness and joy and peace and love...if it involved their blood family (there IS power in the blood) is suppressed or continually fought off and condemned...because mike told them to and they have come to believe he speaks (the only I guess) truth. I've seen it in children of abusive parents...they have figured out what to say or not say and how to act so they will not be abused...or receive the least amount of abuse. It's the same behavior. Self preservation. Thanks again Baxter! | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 203 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 71.156.83.144 |
As Baxter said, the REAL problem is the lack of choice -- or more specifically, not allowing people to have their own PERSONAL convictions. We have some very close friends who follow the Calvinist code of being opposed to doing any business on Sundays. We respect them for their own convictions, even though we don't agree with them. But what is best about these friends of ours is they understand that this is THEIR conviction -- not necessarily God's Truth. THAT is the problem with Peterism. Mike comes up with a personal conviction and immediately it becomes a mandatory RULE for the whole group. If not, Peterite cult members, then prove me wrong!! I challenge you! As an example, tell me of one member of any of the Peterite churches who is both in good standing with the group's leadership AND he/she celebrates Christmas. Tell us honestly of one person!! There is none, is there? | ||
| lauramarie New member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
"God's plan is a Grace plan. God the Father does the work, man receives the benefit. God receives the glory for His own works; man receives no glory. The greatest distortion to Grace is religious legalism. Religion and Legalism are Satan's Ace and King of trump, the primary means by which he "blinds the minds of those who seek Christ" and which are included in Eph. 4:14 as part of "...every wind of doctrine, sleight of men, cunning craftiness, by which they lie in wait to deceive." By these means, Satan tries to disrupt the plan of God and blind people to Grace principles. I use the word "religion" in a strict sense here, not in the general sense of "the service or worship of God." In the general sense, of course, Christianity could be viewed as a religion. But most religion is legalistic, and I want to distinguish the Christian way of life from other religious practice. So the definition I use is: Religion is any system in which man by his own efforts tries to earn the approval of God." from: http://www.gracenotes.info/topics/legalism.html I have been reading some more of the other sad stories on FactNet. There is just a similar thread of all these cults. The saddest part is they suck in believers who want to live the life Jesus wants for us. One of the saddest things about CII is the lack of grace and apparently no understanding of it. I believe if grace could break through, much of their false beliefs would flee. The members of CII do not treat other believers and followers of Jesus as the bible commands. They don't even realize it. They have believed the lie of legalism in a very strict form. Jesus wants to break this bondage in them. It's just seasoned with some "words and phrases" from the bible and built into an idol and they're told "this IS the WAY". So they believe it and they all stand around looking at the beautiful idol and see each other gazing at it and all feel it is right. I pray the Holy Spirit will tear it down and immerse the precious saints in CII with His grace and mercy and forgiveness. EVERY one of them! | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 208 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.45.91 |
For those of you trapped in Mike Peters' group in Indianapolis, Columbus, I just wanted to tell you that what is going on there is just a mirage. It isn't real, it's counterfeit. If you have doubts or you distrust your leaders know that there is a God-given reason for that. And when they want to turn the tables on you for expressing it, just know that the fear you are afraid of is a paralyzing fear that keeps you in tow. The authority that Mike lords over your faith is not from God. I know some of you would love to enjoy the freedom to take your children on a trip or go fishing with your sons and spend some father/son time without anyone tagging along or finding 2, 3, or 4 brothers and sisters knocking on your door so they can drill you for hours or days on end wondering if you had some impure motive in your heart for wanting to do so, or some sort of family idolatry or hobby idolatry or sport idolatry. How many of you women want to do something alone with your daughters but are afraid that you too will find a few sisters knocking at your door only to accuse you of family or hobby idolatry or a spirit of independence? How many of you just wish that one day you could have the freedom to pick up and go on a family trip without having it be a BIG production and get the permission of those lording over your faith just because you WANT to? You can't even trust your own motives anymore and if they say they "sense" some selfish or impure reason for you wanting to do such a thing, then you succumb and numbly comply with sadness and sorrow in your heart because this God you once loved and you believed LOVED you won't let you do anything. Well, the problem is...it's NOT GOD and that's one of the ways that Mike destroys the perspective in people's lives of who God IS. I hope you will learn how to respond to God and His HOLY SPIRIT. Those decisions are not for the elite to make for you. It never should have been that way. Read the scriptures and you will find more principles of God on how to live and conduct yourself in the household of God than you ever will find of the things Mike pours into you day after day. I'm sure there are people there who only "dream" of having the freedom to do such things. Those days are gone if you listen to Mike and his lieutenants. Some of you have expressed GREAT JOY and enthusiasm prior to your involvement with Mike Peters, but now, you proclaim no good news and now you even wonder whether or not there IS good news. It is a hopeless, joyless, lifeless environment filled with oppression. May God help you break the bubble! Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com Oh, and Chris, letters from people under Mike's abusive control and authority hardly constitutes "Solid Testimony by honest people", I mean, they are under his control...what do you think they are going to say? | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 209 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.45.91 |
Chris, thanks for taking the time to email me. If you were God, then all the threats of hell you had to say about the things I say on factnet or indianapoliscult.com or other places would carry some weight. But since you and Mike have this "god complex" going on...it's like I said above, a mirage and counterfeit. You have no authority over me and about one day having to pay, well, Jesus already paid the price for me and the rest of "the spiritually evil thugs, vagabonds and vipers that you all are." Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 204 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Well said, Baxter. You'd better watch out, or Chris will send his "pagan, chain-smoking, multiply divorced, adultrating, porn-watching, sailor mouthed coworkers" after you to take a 2x4 to you! (see Chris' November 17, 2006 post). But I LOVE your compassionate appeal to those trapped in this cult. You and others are living testimonies that you truly CAN get FREE from this bondage and serve Christ with real JOY in your life! Mike-following readers: PLEASE do consider Baxter's appeal! It is NOT "family idolatry" to want to spend some quality 1-on-1 time with your spouse, with your son or daughter, or with your extended family! | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 205 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 40.0.40.10 |
Baxter was recently referring to Chris' silly website, and the falsehoods he is posting there. Looking back (at a Feb.27,2007 post here on FactNet), Chris said the following: ================ Well, "Gene" originally posted on Rick Ross's rigged web site (where people can be attacked, but if you "get there first" and someone tries to attack YOU, then that person is BANNED by Rick and his rwisted sense of "justice" -- so much for being a "cult" expert when he won't allow "the other side of the story" to be told. ================== Well, I thought, isn't is curious and hypocritical that this same Chris has copied Rick Ross and set up his own RIGGED website. So now Chris can openly attack people (like Gene F) and call them liars, and then no one can respond to Chris' lies! Like Mike, Chris doesn't like to be contradicted with the truth. By the way, this is also the same Chris who openly accused Gene, a married man of 20+ years, of being gay. Of course when Chris was openly exposed for THAT lie, he tucked his tail between his legs and quietly went away. Too bad Chris, like Mike, is too arrogant to offer an apology to Gene! Instead, now he's back on his own rigged website, attacking Gene again. What a "man" you are, Chris!! | ||
| joythruchrist Intermediate Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 183 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
Well said, cultfighter! What I find most amazing, Chris, is that you can speak of people who threaten and harass via the internet as though you are speaking of us, when the reality is that you are speaking of yourself. If anyone ever took the time to read these boards all the way through, they'd clearly see what a vicious attacker you are and how much you are NOT like Christ. Still, as ever, praying for you Chris... joythruChrist@gmail.com (Message edited by joythruchrist on January 03, 2008) | ||
| saygoodnightgracie New member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 17 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 96.228.213.249 |
Is there a link for Chris' website somewhere? | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 210 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 128.241.109.157 |
Well, saygoodnightgracie, since you asked the question for Chris's website, he has "temporarily" taken it down (www.butyouwouldnot.org). Apparently he liked it being a "hidden TREASURE". Personally, that makes me think not too many people went there anyway. I find it interesting that in all of Mike's websites, he does not mention factnet.org or indianapoliscult.com and will not post a link to them because he doesn't want people to hear "both sides of the story" as he consistently has expected that people ought to be able to do. You can do a google search for Chris's site and read what has been "cached". Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 211 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 128.241.109.157 |
I do want to add, that on Chris's site, even though in his attempt to tell "The REAL story of the Indianapolis Church", he did have what looked like a link to www.factnet.org and www.indianapoliscult.com, but if you clicked on them, you found they were simply just blue. Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com | ||
| lauramarie New member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
maybe since they were just blue, he felt people wouldn't try to go back to them? It may have been a way to get people NOT to read any of the information there? | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 212 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.45.90 |
In all fairness, I found a few links to some factnet posts on Chris's site. Nothing linking to Tim's site, and a couple that was supposed to link to a couple of Rick Ross's site, but they were worded in such a way that it took you to cult education.com (www.education.com)instead of www.culteducation.com and Rick Ross.com (www.Ross.com)instead of www.RickRoss.com. I think that's what's known as a "Freudian Slip" | ||
| lauramarie New member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
from what I see, all of the letters and what is written on Chris's site is not just trying to get some people to believe that CII is a good thing, but he always throws something in about people he doesn't like. You know, if the place was so great, he wouldn't have to keep being so mean and talk about other people. He could just keep trying to paint a rosy picture of the place. I hate to see the mean things he writes about people, but the only good thing I see is that people who are REALLY just seeking get turned off by the viciousness. So, I guess it's good for him to keep writing?? Sad that I would ever write that about a believer. I do think Chris is a believer, but he's just been duped like so many others. Jesus can tear away the blinders from his eyes. We need each other all along our Christian walk. I am amazed at the VARIETY of wonderful believers that I meet and know. We don't agree on everything, but we all love Jesus and it is He that we worship....together. Not cloistered with only one voice that is allowed. God is so much bigger. Just some thoughts. | ||
| joythruchrist Intermediate Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 184 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
Didn't Chris's site read like a National Enquirer? Sensationalism and yellow journalism. That's all I saw. Since I know the things he wrote about my husband and I were absolute fabrications (he doesn't even know either one of us) then I would have to assume that the stuff about other people is fabricated as well. And isn't it interesting that as soon as we begin to talk about it here, he removes it. Why, I wonder? ~jen joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 213 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 67.159.45.91 |
I think it has to do with a place for Mike to say all the ugly things he would like to tell us but knows he shouldn't. Doing a google link search shows that NOBODY even linked to the site. That tells me there is a real possibility no one even knew about it (even though Chris encourages people to link to the site "Feel free to link to this site so that others have the opportunity to "taste and see" for themselves".) except I guess it's possible some elite in Indy knew about it. And then Chris/Mike mentioning that they liked it being a "hidden treasure". (www.butyouwouldnot.org let's see if that changes). There even happens to be a page of BIG THANKS to "literally hundreds of people" because they "had the guts and determination to look into these things the way JESUS asked you to do and to realize and to even state to these foul creatures s 'the Lord has not sent you!', and for that you are greatly appreciated." Again, it goes back to what is being discussed on the indianapoliscult.com forum (01/07/08), that Mike is unaccountable and exaggerates and wants people to believe what he wants people to believe. Chris' site must not have been too public, or else the first time I know of that it has been mentioned in public (which was January 3rd above) during the two years we have been doing what we can to warn people about the dangers of Mike Peter's authority, that same day he takes it down, why? For whom was it meant? (Message edited by baxter on January 08, 2008) | ||
| lauramarie New member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 4 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
maybe he hoped that "thousands of people all around the world" would be seeking what CII thinks they have to offer? Maybe he thought, in case all those people would get on-line and look for the oasis he claims he has, he was here and ready for them? but once he realized that anyone who would also read about the truth of CII (from here and other places) might THEN go to his site, he got scared and didn't want us to find his little treasure? Didn't want anyone to point out the false accusations and non-truths he offers maybe? | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 214 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 128.241.110.19 |
Well, it appears that the cached pages of the butyouwouldnot.org web pages are dwindling down. They went from 4 google pages to 1/2 a google page, if that. However, anticipating this, I have those pages "saved" should there be a need for accountability in the future. Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com | ||
| joythruchrist Intermediate Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 185 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
Ok, so here's what I don't understand. Why is he making those pages unavailable? Is he not proud of the lies he told now? Frankly, if I wanted to, I could have so easily sued him for all the reputation damaging libel about my husband and myself on his site. But we chose to sit back and watch what God would do instead. If all the things Chris said on his site were true, why would he not let it stand? Why the rush to cover it all up? Hm. | ||
| baxter Intermediate Member Username: baxter Post Number: 215 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 207.67.151.238 |
As I was thinking of this recent turn of events with "Chris" taking his site down "temporarily" and then asking google to not show cached pages except for a "select" few, one word that describes Mike Peters came to my mind, ILLUSIONIST. Mike Peters can put David Copperfield to shame. He knows how to manipulate and make things appear the way people want them to be. When he painted that picture in Meetings in His Kingdom of "daily life", I was SO hopeful at the prospect of being with people who really loved each other and desired to spend time together. But having lived in their midst, I saw that much was staged, it's by coercion, manipulation, and the people are robots. They say what they know is expected of them to say and what they have been programed (through fear) to think. But deep in the depths of their hearts, I am confident there is doubt. Also, I spoke above that there were no links in Chris's www.butyouwouldnot.org website to the www.indianapoliscult.com or www.factnet.org web sites. One of the cached pages left (no doubt ON PURPOSE since they chose which ones would be left in the cache system) was the links page. So if you go to the cached page you can NOW click on www.indianapoliscult.com and www.factnet.org and it takes you to those sites, it will also take you to any of Mike's sites. The really peculiar thing is, I am confident that was NOT that way before I posted as others have also confirmed it was the same for them. This is another form of "illusion". If you, however, copy that page and email it to yourself and click on ANY of those links on that page, it first takes you back to the www.butyouwouldnot website BEFORE it goes to the links. I'm not a computer expert, but my guess is because he "fixed" it AFTER I made the above post and he had taken down his site. If you do that with ANY of the other cached pages (email it to yourself and click on any links in it), it takes you immediately to the site without first stopping by the butyouwouldnot web site. Only with the "links" page does it respond differently (which, I wouldn't be surprised if this changes again or he decides to have google remove it from their cache). Any of you computer experts out there, I welcome your thoughts. Mike knows what he wants people to think, what he wants them to believe. Again, that's why there is information control within his group, etc. I strongly caution anyone who has been caught up in the things from the www.allathisfeet.com website, to know you are dealing with a person who knows how to create illusions. As many of us have said throughout this board, test the spirit. 2 Cor 11:13 For such men are false apostles, deceitful workers, disguising themselves as apostles of Christ. 2 Cor 11:14 No wonder, for even Satan disguises himself as an angel of light. 2 Cor 11:15 Therefore it is not surprising if his servants also disguise themselves as servants of righteousness, whose end will be according to their deeds. Christ.myrighteousness@gmail.com | ||
| joythruchrist Intermediate Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 186 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
I can vouch for the fact that the links didn't work. I tried them many times. Dead. I remember thinking, "this guy is a computer whiz?" And only ONE time (months ago) did I ever get a hit on my site from his. I guessed at the time that he was testing his link to me. But then when I went there, it was dead -- which actually suited me fine.  Jen joythruChrist@gmail.com | ||
| cult_fighter Intermediate Member Username: cult_fighter Post Number: 206 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 75.5.205.34 |
Jen and Bax, I think there's an easy answer to why Chris shut down his website -- he was ORDERED to. Just remember what was the last thing Chris wrote on his website -- his "Gene F. lied" story about Mike's Vermont days. When we drew attention to the fact that Chris has also alluded to the lie that Gene is gay -- I think the Peterite superiors figured "This has gone far enough" and "This guy <chris> is an embarrassment to us". Since Chris has never met Gene F., can we all guess where he got his "gay" rumor? Hint: His initials are "MP". The last thing Mike needs is for folks to know he's spreading gay rumors and lies on the internet. | ||
| joythruchrist Intermediate Member Username: joythruchrist Post Number: 187 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 64.127.144.7 |
Agreed, though my guess is that the word 'ordered' is a tad strong. My guess is that it was more of a 'suggestion' with an underlying threat that Chris would never get back into Indy if he didn't comply. But that's just my guess. | ||
| lauramarie New member Username: lauramarie Post Number: 5 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 75.177.94.213 |
I am sure that any suggestion to Chris is followed wholeheartedly. I feel his main desire in life is to get back into Indy. Jesus accepts him just the way he is. Too bad mike can't.... |
