| Author | Message | ||
     bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1794 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.166.3 |
Mentally-Ill and Depressed Christians: Oxymorons? Who says? "People bring people like themselves. Don't go bringing your crazy folks with you to church!" Davis the Builder 1) All were brought to Jesus for His healing, including the devil-possessed and the lunatic (Matthew 2:24) Right off we see the distinct difference between those who wish to see souls come to Jesus vs getting people into a church program. Satan's synagogues are run for business, and such lunatic folks (like babies in the mind) are simply a 'disruption' to their building program. It's the difference between freely sowing the Word of Life vs. conducting indoctrination services to profit by. So, they make commandments against things they say are not conducive to Christian living, AND they make profiles against people they know are not conducive to anti-Christian services! (We should have drooled like David to prevent Davis of Gath-Graham from being so interested in us!) "It's impossible for a Christian baptized with the Holy Ghost to be depressed!" Davis the Christ 2) The 'feeble' in (1 Cor 12:22) literally mean the weakened or without strength, which also applies to the mind. And so the mentally-challenged, weak, ill, etc... indeed not only can be members of Christ's body, but are necessary ones at that. Why? Because our charitable senses are most exercised by them! A people are most known for their treatment of their most weak... Thus in Davis' antichristian propgram, he exactly opposes the Scripture in matters of charity. Absolutely NOTHING he does is simply to help others for Jesus' sake, but ALL must have the profit motive! 3) And the 'feebleminded' in (1 Thess 5:14) literally means to be little/small souled, or lacking in emotional strength: Depression! And we are thus to comfort such through their times of soul-wrenching weakness as brothers, not to jack them up as unsaved, or not Holy Ghost-filled enough! And so once again we see the thoroughly antichristian spirit and manner of a builder of churches vs. that of Jesus' called ministers of His Word. In those areas in which the Christian ministers' sensibility of charity, long-suffering, and patience are most necessary, the great holiness apostolic best-of-the-best biggest lover of souls on earth man of God, who's very name is PASTOR personified rejects, condemns, does away with, and otherwise exorcises them out of his church altogether. Why? Well, obviously because they get in the way of his highly-special pulpiteering and chances for stupendous success in his father's people-business: the devil. And so herein is the simple reason of why Davis hardens the hearts of all he loves to win to his program, because he wants to use them for his own greater success and glory. And there are certain people who just don't fit in and are more of a nuisance than a help, and so they must be pre-empted in the first place from ever coming. After all, Davis is running a business, not a charity (!!!) | ||
| mark_g Advanced Member Username: mark_g Post Number: 542 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
"It's impossible for a Christian baptized with the Holy Ghost to be depressed!" Davis the Christ What a bunch of Baloney. "After all, Davis is running a business, not a charity" (!!!) That much is for certain | ||
| mark_g Advanced Member Username: mark_g Post Number: 543 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
"People bring people like themselves. Don't go bringing your crazy folks with you to church!" Davis the Builder Which goes back to a question that I had originally posed on another thread. While I was at NTCC most of the people that I brought to Church were people that I had met for the first time in my life from just simply walking up to their door and inviting them to Church. So anyway, this is my question.... What sort of "defining criteria" is used to determine whether a person is mentally ill according to NTCC standards? Is there some sort of Standard Operating Procedure in any NTCC handbook, or Brochure of some kind to determine this? Or is it something that you are suppose to just "Know" and be able to discern when you meet someone for the very first time? DMN,Godsright, some of the other NTCC apologist? Maybe I can have an answer for this one. I believe that it is a fair question, since RWD has set the bar so high. Please, give me some "Defining Characteristics" if you will please. I'm waiting. Mark | ||
| waitingtoexhale New member Username: waitingtoexhale Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 67.9.98.56 |
A year or two after going to NTCC I was diagnosed with military related PTSD. After many days insomnia and prayer, I decided to seek treatment in a private facility. However my spouse decided to let the Pastor in on what I was doing, so I quit going to therapy. I continued exhibiting symptoms, but often made excuses when my friends, and church folk showed concern. I could not understand why God was still punishing me or what sin I was committing to be like this. I suffered though flashbacks DAILY...for about seven years until I thought about not caring what anyone thought of me and sought treatment. I pray that select persons in NTCC would change their attitude torwards mental illness especially with the hundreds of OIF, OEF troops coming back home with issues. | ||
| pelfdaddy Senior Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 1029 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.128.122.183 |
Is there something that can be done to warn the Dept. of Defense against Pentecostalism and its vampiric control over so many members of the US Military? | ||
| nbrown New member Username: nbrown Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.39.121.221 |
When I married an ntcc preacher, I was shocked at the common teaching that mental illness is a result of sin. I often argued with my husband at how outrageous a statement this was. (and I hadn't even considered military related PTSD!) About 4 years ago I helped in the 5 year old children's church class. There was a man ( a regular visitor for at least a few months) who brought his grandson. This kid was so cute and I really enjoyed having him in the class. Well the next thing I know, it was announced that someone in the congregation had committed suicide. Then I found out it was this little boy's grandad. Had anyone in ntcc persuaded him not to get the care he needed? How could you live with that decision? I really felt for that little boy and I never did see him again. WTE - I hope you are doing better now and you have maybe a new church or other people or friends who genuinely care about you and support you to get through this. You bring up a very very important point and I am just as outraged as Brian. | ||
| rls Junior Member Username: rls Post Number: 46 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 65.28.108.137 |
"Is there something that can be done to warn the Dept. of Defense against Pentecostalism and its vampiric control over so many members of the US Military?" Sorry Pelfdaddy, I had to respond. Pentecostalism brethren are one thing. Davis made a mockery of them back when I was in the org in the mid eighties. He called them, "Pennycosters." Also, not all of those who claim to be part of the Pentecostal movement are the same. Yes, there are some that are a bit more strict than others, and some who are oneness as far as that goes. But, none of them are anything like RWD. RWD is a business person, living on the backs of his preachers, and church members. He just uses the Pentecostal type format to do it with. He can tweak emotions better with it for that matter, and manipulate people with it. Later.  | ||
| mark_g New member Username: mark_g Post Number: 12 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
I know that there are many out here who are still Pentecostal, But I hope that what I'm about to say won't be taken personally. Most, In fact all of what Pelfdaddy said about Pentecostalism I agree with. I wish I could find something good to say about it, I really do. And I know that other mainstream denominations have their problems also, But of all the mainstream denominations that I have been involved with, I have to say that I have grown to despise Pentecostalism the most. Partly because of what I went through when I left NTCC, But also because of the flamboyance, the sensationalism, as well as all the fluff and puff that goes along with it. All of the playing on peoples emotions, as well as the fleecing of the sheep, and the building of organizations on the backs of people who are living off of widows pensions and social security and disability. I was reading something on the internet about a survey that was done concerning God and Church. Something like 94% of the people interviewed said that they believed in God, But they did not believe that Church was essential to salvation, and sited the fact that the Church's are filled with hypocrites. I suppose one could say that the hypocrites are at least GOING to Church, But I believe that an answer like that Begs the question. I mean, what are people suppose to believe when they see many of these so called "Faith Healers" and people who surround themselves with the finest of everything that the world has to offer, Live opulent,extravagant lifestyles? And yet these very same Preachers beg and plead for money, sell "Holy Water" that is little more than Old Spice and just plain Tap water, Sell all kinds of "Anointed Handkerchiefs", and all kinds of other merchandise, and do it all in the name of the Lord? I've read, and heard many things that well respected Preachers, as well as the Theologians were saying about the Azusa Street revival. Rueban Torrey said that it was "Emphatically not of God and founded by a Sodomite", another called it "The last Vomit of Satan". And then I think of people like Mom and Pop Gaylord who were sincere. Sure, they were Pentecostal, But they were REAL PEOPLE!!!!! ok, Enough of the "Rantings of Mark". | ||
| leftin1991 Intermediate Member Username: leftin1991 Post Number: 477 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 4.88.160.43 |
Mark: R.A. Torrey was not wrong, but he saw only one side of the truth. It is important to not put all Pentecostals in the same boat with Charismatics. To do so is misleading, and is more confusing than helpful. This article by missionary/evangelist Bill Burkett, "Pentecostal, But Not Charismatic" is helpful to bear in mind the distinctions between the two. http://www.actsion.com/NOTchar-I.htm N.B. - Bro. Burkett is a minister in the Independent Holiness movement, which NTCC was a part of and fellowshipped with from @ 1969-1976, until NTCC made the rule that only their own graduates and disciples were allowed to preach in their churches, at which point they began their metamorphosis from a Pentecostal church to a Neo-Pentecostal business cult. http://www.holinessmessenger.com | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 2006 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.208.3.45 |
"...until I thought about not caring what anyone thought of me and sought treatment." And this is EXACTLY the necessary mind that breaks free from cultish bondage: CARING less of what people think of us, and MORE THAN what Jesus says to us in His Word. Servants of Christ and NOT pleasers of men. Cult-Leaders like Davis will indeed be judged for the false doctrine and ministry that puts believers in the bondage and seduction of following a man as God, rather than judging rightly what is of God. Yes, we have our ownselves to blame for NOT believing ONLY what is written, even to the exclusion of what so-called great Leaders command; however, such blind guides also are to be blamed who go into that pit first (for they shall surely be there first!) We are indeed judged by our manners with the weakest and littlest and feeblest members (Matthew 18:6), and since such feeble-minded do not figure into Davis' hard-core company of real ministers and ministries, then he simply excludes them from the body of Christ and even their attentions by more false doctrine that says such folk are reprobate and unworthy of our affection. (I.e. They ain't worth dealing with for membership with us, because there ain't much dividends-of-return for me.) After all: This is a business, NOT a charity! It is seen in Scripture that Babylonish ministries & ministers are those who are cast into the sea like great millstones, even as the millstones to be hanged about the necks of them that offend the least, littlest, feeblest of Jesus! 7 years of unnecessary tribulation and trouble to one of Jesus' sheep is an OFFENCE indeed, and a stumblingblock to their Christian growth. But the strong-hold of foul leaders is strong indeed, until we break free of it and depart from that Babylonish & child-of-hell ministry by coming to ourselves and acknowledging: We don't have to care what other so-called greats think of us, but only what Jesus says to us! This is the liberty of the saints and the sheep in Jesus' fold, that the Davis-type cult leaders fear and despise and get rid of as a seditious enemy in their 'Christian-like' camps. When they know that you ONLY care what is written, and not just what they say: YOU ARE OUT. Why? Because you are FREE! | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 2007 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.208.3.45 |
"...until I thought about not caring what anyone thought of me and sought treatment." And this is EXACTLY the necessary mind that breaks free from cultish bondage: CARING less of what people think of us, and MORE THAN what Jesus says to us in His Word. Servants of Christ and NOT pleasers of men. Cult-Leaders like Davis will indeed be judged for the false doctrine and ministry that puts believers in the bondage and seduction of following a man as God, rather than judging rightly what is of God. Yes, we have our ownselves to blame for NOT believing ONLY what is written, even to the exclusion of what so-called great Leaders command; however, such blind guides also are to be blamed who go into that pit first (for they shall surely be there first!) We are indeed judged by our manners with the weakest and littlest and feeblest members (Matthew 18:6), and since such feeble-minded do not figure into Davis' hard-core company of real ministers and ministries, then he simply excludes them from the body of Christ and even their attentions by more false doctrine that says such folk are reprobate and unworthy of our affection. (I.e. They ain't worth dealing with for membership with us, because there ain't much dividends-of-return for me.) After all: This is a business, NOT a charity! It is seen in Scripture that Babylonish ministries & ministers are those who are cast into the sea like great millstones, even as the millstones to be hanged about the necks of them that offend the least, littlest, feeblest of Jesus! 7 years of unnecessary tribulation and trouble to one of Jesus' sheep is an OFFENCE indeed, and a stumblingblock to their Christian growth. But the strong-hold of foul leaders is strong indeed, until we break free of it and depart from that Babylonish & child-of-hell ministry by coming to ourselves and acknowledging: We don't have to care what other so-called greats think of us, but only what Jesus says to us! This is the liberty of the saints and the sheep in Jesus' fold, that the Davis-type cult leaders fear and despise and get rid of as a seditious enemy in their 'Christian-like' camps. When they know that you ONLY care what is written, and not just what they say: YOU ARE OUT. Why? Because you are FREE! | ||
| rls Junior Member Username: rls Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 65.28.108.137 |
Hi Mark_G. What you have described that has made it to media is not the bulk of pentecostal movement. Many are actually just like we are in a lot of ways. There are those who I do know of, including my own pastor right now, who are trying to make ends meet on just a little money. Although tithing is encouraged, it is not demanded in the church I attend. Plates aren't passed in the congregation causing a little peer pressure, there are boxes at a couple of locations, and a place up front, if you want to incorporate that in part of the service. You can even mail it in if you prefer. If you have needs that have to be met in your own family as well as financial restructuring, the family does come first, until a person can get on his feet. In other words, people don't starve in order to pay tithe, or live on the street to pay tithe, like some of the higher up NTCC bunch would have you do. | ||
| pelfdaddy Senior Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 1036 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.128.97.87 |
Just to clarify concerning Pentecostalism... The topic being mental illness, I was certainly not suggesting that all Pentecostals are similar to the 700 club or anything like that. The question that sits stagnating at the bottom of this drain is, "Where are the miraculous deliverances, the healings, and the rest?" Fact is, these things are not happening. Yet pliable young people (like members of the military) are spending their money thinking they will be blessed for it, eschewing the doctor in favor of prayer, and avoiding psychological treatment because they believe it shows a lack of faith. What follows is often disastrous, including child abuse and suicide. They all know they are not receiving miraculous manifestations of healing, yet they persist in claiming the miracles by faith. Meanwhile they ignore their problems, which only get worse, especially in the flickering shadows of fake revival fires. Yet local base commanders are oblivious to the harm being done, thinking that "...anything involving religion is good for the guys, if it keeps 'em out of trouble..." The chief concern of these officers, when their units are not deployed, is not the actual well-being of their men, but the pressure to avoid DUI's, public drunkenness and other forms of embarrassing off-duty mischief. | ||
| waitingtoexhale New member Username: waitingtoexhale Post Number: 4 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 67.9.98.56 |
N Brown- thanks for your post. Yes I have a small group of friends that love and support me, however most are oblivious to what I am going through. I go to church, but the trust in God's people is a little jaded. I thank God that once I started going to therapy, the symptoms are not once what they were and I can breathe easier. I would often find myself getting frustrated at the Pastor when a brother was limping or a sister was coughing, prayer was encouraged...however they were often told to go to the Dr. However, me waking up with cold sweats everyday was somehow my fault due to some mysterious sin. Even after I was PCS'd away from NTCC my spouse continued to preach this mantra, until they met someone with the same condition. I am not saying God doesn't heal, He does...and sometimes He dosen't take away the "thorn in the flesh". About Pentecostalism..Maybe I am a little partial because my family background is rooted in it. I have seen many Pentecostal (even Holiness) churches flourish, so I know it is not the problem. The problem is when the "select" forget where they came from and become out of touch with their members...family etc. still... Waiting to Exhale | ||
| mark_g New member Username: mark_g Post Number: 13 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
"The topic being mental illness, I was certainly not suggesting that all Pentecostals are similar to the 700 club or anything like that." Nor do I want you to think that I'm putting words in your mouth either. As far as the difference between Pentecostal and Charismatic Church's. Yes, there is a difference I'm sure. And there is some sort of dividing line, If that is what you want to call it. But as far as I can see the line grows dimmer by the day. There are many good Pentecostal as well as Charismatic brothers and Sisters that are Christians who love God. No doubt about it. I can just speak for myself in saying that I don't have any desire to ever go back to a Pentecostal or a Charismatic Church. And much of it has nothing at all to do with NTCC. There are to many things that I have experienced(or should I say NOT experienced) that makes me feel that way. But, opinions,opinions,opinions. Everybody has one. | ||
| rls Junior Member Username: rls Post Number: 48 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 65.28.108.137 |
On healing and Pentecostalism: Healing by the biblical standard could take place miraclously, and has, and does. I have received reports from people whom I trust concerning that, (no not the televangelists and so forth). Also, healing could take place within medical practises, and does; including preventive medicine as well. I believe that the final healing for the believer will be when the body is changed from mortality to immortality, to vessels made by God. That healing of course is taking awhile in coming, and meanwhile our souls and our spirits are in God's loving care. Harm comes when people take things out of balance. We have seen times when Paul recommended things, "wine for thy stomache's sake and thine often infirmities.." is indeed a remedy to treat symptoms. Although in Pentecostal circles and Charismatic circles things have been taken to extreme, that doesn't discount the Bible and its validity, (new word?), and what it says concerning healing for the body in whatever capacity. | ||
| mark_g New member Username: mark_g Post Number: 14 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
Not to belabor the point, But Ok, Lets talk about healing for a moment. I still do believe that God can, at any moment and under ANY circumstances, Heal someone. I still do believe that. My next question is, Where is the proof? I'll give you just one example. Smith Wigglesworth is said to have raised people from the dead. It is even reported in one of his books that he raised his wife from the dead, and after they had a talk(when she asked him why he raised her, and that it was Gods will for her to be in heaven) then he acquiesced and allowed her to die. My question to this is,Where is the Proof for such incredible claims? That is just one of millions where there is no viable proof, and the person is just suppose to believe the credibility of the person telling the story. What a bunch of Baloney! And then in many cases the people who don't receive the healing that they desire get told that the reason that they were not healed is because of absence of faith, secret sin, and other things!!! Remember this, and remember this well. There is one disease from which you will never recover from......YOUR LAST!!!! I will say that healing is something God can do, even in this day and age. But I do believe that "Divine Healing" is the exception, and not the rule. | ||
| donethat Junior Member Username: donethat Post Number: 43 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.212.81.247 |
The proof is in the pudding. Show me don't tell me. | ||
| mark_g New member Username: mark_g Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
Please understand me to say that when I say the things that I do that I'm not attacking anyone personally. After reading what I just wrote I can see where possibly people might think that is the case. Anyway. I know that the thread is about "Mental Illness" and not about Divine Healing. I read a book a number of years ago by a gentleman named James Randi called "Faith Healers". It was really a very informative book about the subject. I'm not saying that I believe everything that cynic has to say about the subject, and sometimes he comes off very sarcastically in what he says. But, If the CHURCH WOULD DO A BETTER JOB OF POLICING SOME OF THESE "FAITH HEALERS" THEN PEOPLE LIKE JAMES RANDI WOULD NOT HAVE TO COME ALONG A WRITE BOOKS LIKE THIS!!! Sure, he has a sarcastic sense of humor, and comes across sometimes like a cynical old man. But I can put up with people like James Randi easier than I can people who seek to enrich themselves at the expense of people who are desperate and will go to measures of maxing out their Credit Cards to give to these Charlatans. Rabbi Krueshner made the statement on an interview that he hopes that there is a special place in Hell for people like that. I could go on and on, But I'll spare the good people out here the torture of it, Lest Greg_S thinks he may have competition out here. Hello Donethat. Laters, Mark | ||
| donethat Junior Member Username: donethat Post Number: 44 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.212.81.247 |
Hi Mark, I was refering to divine healing myself. There are so many fakes out there that I need proof. I know that God still heals but people have taken the glory from God. Man once again takes advantage of a good thing. |
