| Author | Message | ||
     2003grad New member Username: 2003grad Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 64.26.169.113 |
I tried to post this a few days ago, but there was a problem with my account: I am quite sure that I am going to get bashed for this, but I had to say something. I have just seen the G&M article about the dolls. It is horrible, Valpy is a complete pariah who will attack anything he possibly can. First, I would like to know how he got hold of something that was distributed to alumni only, not to the media. At least I don't think it was, I will stand corrected if I am wrong. Second, I fail to see why this is such a big deal. I understand people are hurting, I understand that some people don't want to be reminded of Grenville, but if that is the case, then you don't have to buy these dolls. They have been made by one of the oldest members of Grenville so that the alumni who do wish to have keepsakes from their time at Grenville can purchase them. While I understand that many people are having a hard time, (at the risk of sounding cold) not everything revolves around you. Isn't it possible that these dolls were made and are being advertised for the people who DO want to remember their time at Grenville? That they were produced by Mary Gerlach out of love for a place that has been her home for years? Is it possible that this was not done to p*** off and slight the people who have complaints against the place? While I won't get one myself (I can't afford it), I think it is a sweet idea for anyone who does want to remember their time at Grenville fondly. I also think it is a good idea for them to raise the money they will need for the new lives people are having to build, and yes, for any potential pay outs they may have to pay. What is wrong with that? What is wrong with them trying to raise some money? I fail to see what the big deal is. I also fail to see why everyone with complaints seems to take everything the school and staff do as a personal slight towards them. For the most part, these are good people and I can't honestly believe that they would purposely do anything to hurt anyone. They may have 'lost their way' at some point, but I don't think any of them (with possibly a few exceptions, altho I can't think who) ever harmed anyone on purpose. They are merely trying to move on, and I fail to see why everything they do is taken as a personal slap in the face. This was a sweet thing for Mary Gerlach to do, and it has been thrown back in her face. Can you imagine the hours and the love she has put into making these dolls, and now all of a sudden a sweet old lady who was only trying to do good has been labelled evil and all sorts of other things. That must be so hard on her. I understand that all this has brought up many painful memories for a lot of people and I am in no way trying to diminish any of that, I just had to say my piece about this. I just wanted to bring up the question of 'is it possible that these dolls weren't made to slight anyone? That they were purely made for those people who wish to remember their time at Grenville?' | ||
| inthe70s New member Username: inthe70s Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.242.109.43 |
what article was that in? I agree with you 110% ... I can't believe someone would twist that in such a way  I also know some pretty ugly stuff was experienced by us, but I never ever believed it was done with any malice ... i truly believe they thought they were doing the right thing .. There is a huge difference between the 2 motives .... and that does not relieve them of any responsibility for any of their actions. | ||
| inthe70s New member Username: inthe70s Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.242.109.43 |
btw, glad you mentioned about the acco8nt ... I had tried to post and ended up having to re-apply to the forum all over again ... freaked me out LOLOLLO I had wondered where everyone had disappeared to, maybe it happened to everyone? | ||
| gcc_1981_grad Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 90 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.51.137.19 |
I also had to re-apply | ||
| tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 88 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 207.216.241.43 |
I have never heard of Mary Gerlach. She must have come after my time. I am sure she meant no intentional harm or distress to the former students who suffered abuse. | ||
| certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 57 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 96.231.86.120 |
The announced sale of the dolls on Halloween was insensitive to those who suffered abuse and perhaps that email should not have been sent out by the last remaining member of Grenville staff on payroll. To sell effigies of the abused is totally out of order. This matter proves that Grenville staff are still living in denial of what went on at Grenville. The sale of the dolls was very revealing of the state mind of those that remain at Grenville. | ||
| alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 24 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 69.204.240.130 |
"effigies of the abused" ????????? It's a doll. If you don't want one... don't buy it. I'm from the CofJ, and I was one of the ones who had an extremely hard time at GCC. These dolls are NOT something to be offended about. Relax....take a deep breath. There are some battles that need to be fought, and this is not one of them. | ||
| 2003grad New member Username: 2003grad Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 64.26.169.113 |
Oh my god, I am SO glad people agree with me! I couldn't believe it was so twisted. The link to the article is here... http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071103.DOLLS03/TPStory/?query=grenville It just made me so MAD that people would twist something like this. That people seem to think that everything that the staff are doing is supposed to be a personal slap in the face. I don't know if that's actually how people feel or if that's just the way Valpy made it look, but it just upset me to read it. | ||
| certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 96.231.86.120 |
Here is the article: '... a lasting keepsake of your time at Grenville' Brockville, Ont., school under investigation for abusing its students offers alumni souvenir dolls MICHAEL VALPY November 3, 2007 For the memory of abuse that keeps on living: a $150 doll wearing the student uniform of Ontario's Grenville Christian College. The now-defunct private school outside Brockville marketed the dolls to its alumni this week as police continued a criminal investigation into allegations of physical and sexual abuse by former staff, and lawyers prepared civil suits against the school's owners and former staff and the Anglican diocese in which Grenville is located. A flyer sent out on the school's e-mail service advertised the dolls as "a special offer for our alumni - a way to remember - a lasting keepsake of your time at Grenville." The flyer said Asian dolls could be ordered for foreign students who attended Grenville. Tyler Holmes of Toronto, a former student who went to the police with abuse allegations, called the doll sales "incredibly warped and inappropriate in light of the current circumstances." Print Edition - Section Front Enlarge Image Former student Jennifer Reid, now a teacher in Peterborough, Ont., said the police and church investigations into what went on in the school have compelled Grenville's alumni to recount details of very difficult and damaging experiences. "These are memories that can haunt a lifetime, and the trauma is again fresh and on the surface right now," said Ms. Reid, who prodded the Anglican Church into opening an inquiry into its priests who were at the school. "To promote these dolls as a 'lasting keepsake' is another way of saying that abuse didn't happen to students at GCC. The dolls are an expression of denial about what is really going on." Her comments were echoed by former student Richard Van Dusen of Toronto, who has been interviewed by both the police and the church. He called the doll sales campaign "insane." Said Mr. Van Dusen: "Isn't it wrong for the school - which is now closed - to be trying to raise funds? Isn't it wrong for them to be trying to generate these funds by selling effigies of people who are claiming to have been abused? Isn't it wrong for everyone to be sitting around and waiting for it all to just go away?" No one connected with the school could be reached for comment. The last remaining staff stopped work on Wednesday. The school's board of directors has not issued any statement since the allegations surfaced in the news media at the end of August. The Anglican Church put its investigation on hold once it learned of a possible civil suit. The dolls are made by one of the approximately 30 remaining members of the Community of the Good Shepherd, which owns the school. Some of the members are elderly and without means of support. The community has put the school - valued at more than $15-million - up for sale. One well-informed source said there has been a single $5-million offer. | ||
| certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 59 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 96.231.86.120 |
In light of the current climate, the police investigation, the church investigation and the civil suits, it could be suggested that the advertisement was inappropriate, to say the least. | ||
| alivefighting New member Username: alivefighting Post Number: 25 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 69.204.240.130 |
I understand not liking it. I had to laugh when I saw the ad. I also felt uncomfortable, but I know that a number of people had good experiences there. I am glad they did. I would not wish what I experienced on anyone. The dolls are for them. It's OK. | ||
| tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 89 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 207.216.241.43 |
I suspect that they thought it would be a good idea...but then they never asked some of the alumni what they would consider an appropriate keepsake and if we would want one. I don't think she meant any intentional harm, but I have to agree with certavi that it is not the appropriate time. | ||
| 2003grad New member Username: 2003grad Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 64.26.169.113 |
I still fail to see the big deal. Is it a problem for them to be selling any keepskaes period, or is it just a problem because they are dolls? Either way I don't understand why it is a problem. If they were selling stuffed GCC lions would it still be a problem? If you don't want one, don't buy one. Ignore the emails. If you had such a bad time there and don't want to be reminded of it, why are you on the alumni emailing list and getting the emails anyways? I just don't understand what the issue is. (Message edited by 2003Grad on November 09, 2007) | ||
| certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 60 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 96.231.86.120 |
Perhaps 2003grad needs to be more sensitive to the experience of others. Things were very different years ealiers and perhaps a knowledge of PTSD would suit her well. | ||
| 2003grad New member Username: 2003grad Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 64.26.169.113 |
certavi: I fail to see why you are attacking me. You are proving the point I made in my very first post on here, that people with differing opinions are not welcomed here. This is precisely why I was very wary of posting in the first place, I knew I would get bullied for not having the same view point. I have not attacked anyone, I have not belittled or said I don't believe anyone. Actually, if you look back at my first post both on this thread and on my first post, I have said in both that I do not wish to insult, belittle or offend anyone. I am merely trying to understand. I don't understand and last time I checked, asking questions in an attempt to understand was not a crime. This has been very hard on me as well. I realise it hasn't been as hard as what you all experienced years ago, but it is not easy to try to wrap your head around the fact that the people you spent five years of your life with, the people who were your family, are child abusers. That is very difficult for me to deal with and all I am trying to do is UNDERSTAND. If you want to call me insensitive then fine, I can't change your opinion of me, but like I have said over and over again, I am not trying to be insensitive, I am not trying to offend, just to understand. The only way I am going to be able to understand is to ask questions. If that makes me a bad person then I am sorry. And just for your information, altho I really don't know why I am telling you, I have a VERY good knowledge of PTSD which stems from being gang raped at the age of 13 so I do know what it is like, I do know what you are going thru. I fail to see how I can be more sensitive and still get my questions out. I am not like Sinderella and the others who came on here calling you all liars etc, I was HORRIFIED by some of the things she said to you, it was wrong and I would never say that. Now however I feel like I am being lumped into the same group and that hurts. I had been pleasantly surprised about how I was recieved here as someone who didn't experience any of this. Maybe I was wrong. I must go now because this is getting way too long and if my boss sees me crying at work I will have to explain why and I really don't want to have to do that. | ||
| certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 96.231.86.120 |
2003grad, if you calmly read my posts you will see that I prefix my statements with the word "perhaps". In the English language we use such words to qualify our statements. I think if you carefully read my statements you will see that one would be hard pressed to suggest that I am attacking you. Perhaps just asking general questions to be inclusive in dialogue? | ||
| strength Intermediate Member Username: strength Post Number: 106 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.71.20.23 |
I think the one doll with the blond hair was modeled after one of my dorm-mates in Section A on third floor. She was the daughter of the CEO of a very big and cloutish Canadian manufacturing company. Really, that doll looks exactly like her. Anyway, this girl's bed was right next to mine. I was constantly dismayed and traumatized by the combination of her thick golden hair, entirely vacant personality, and massive collection of expensive shoes. To this day, I think back on waking up to her every morning in the dorm with angst. It was the closest I'll ever want to come to having an affair with Sonia Bata. Pretty scary stuff. No Grenville dolls for me. | ||
| papillon Member Username: papillon Post Number: 69 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 71.94.226.230 |
Glad to see the dolls are being discussed. Been curious about these. Does anyone have a photo that could be posted or linked to? How are they being made? What do they look like? What justifies the $150 price tag? Personally, I think the dolls are a "trigger" ... yes something to remember Grenville by ... possibly a nice keepsake for those who had good experiences ... but a poignant slap in the face for those who didn't ... If anyone could post some photos of them, or post a link to where there is a photo, that would be appreciated. | ||
| delight_session New member Username: delight_session Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.241.24.62 |
...do the dolls come with pins? Perhaps there is now an interest in Voodoo at GCC. | ||
| quietgrl Junior Member Username: quietgrl Post Number: 46 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.193.93.121 |
I am not attacking here...merely trying to debate the issue.... I am curious about some comments made.... ie." can't honestly believe that they would purposely do anything to hurt anyone. They may have 'lost their way' at some point, but I don't think any of them (with possibly a few exceptions, altho I can't think who) ever harmed anyone on purpose" ..... Purpose... I am sure there was some justifications in the minds of the staff who were abusive....... Perhaps they thought that god was on their side....But.. Lost or not...It is hard to think that one would not realize at some point they had crossed the line... or wandered down a questionable path... Friends of mine were yelled at for hours on end, Called horrible names, told that if they were to burn in the boiler they would not be missed and it would make no difference they were going to hell anyway... frightened so badly that they become incontinent..( and them made to sit in their urine for several hours while they continued to yell at them...) beaten until they bled... Were they so self rightous as so think that this was ok... Were they so lost... that they did not see what they were doing to other people's children.. (and their own) I don't think their intention is the issue... (or relevant...) the fact remains that people were abused at the school.. some were very badly abused... I understand that things were different in the later years..... but... it is important to understand... that the invitation to purchase the dolls comes at a time when those that were most hurt by the school... are reliving their experiences... It was insensitve at best to sell the dolls at this time...... It is a way of saying ... "get over it"... of minimizing the suffering of those that were hurt... the proof of which is.. the fact that so many... were scandalized by the sale... Please don't ask them to get over their feelings... if you were not upset by the sale of the dolls that is great... but do understand that others were... with good reason... please listen to what they have to say... and do not ask them to be silent... they have been silent for far too long. | ||
| strength Intermediate Member Username: strength Post Number: 107 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.71.20.23 |
Wow, quietgirl, when you write, the wisdom of your words come through loud and clear. I agree with everything you say. The dolls are simply one more form of denial. And denial is deadlier than the abuse itself. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 99 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
Thank you, quietgirl, that was beautifully written! I hope that the students you write about have been able to find the inner strength to go to the OPP. | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 83 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.48.106 |
Denial...my lord, why can't people just not be in the loop? Nancy is hanging in there at GCC even with all the crap going on. Trying to keep a straight face - doing what she a most of the GCC staff did for years - What they thought was right? Some people will buy the dolls...personally not even maybe here. Everything has to be about this - no-one can step outside of his/her own skeletons and assume that EVERYONE is sticking it to them. Get over it - heal or whatever, but quit bashing every single thing that GCC offers....some do actually have best interests in mind - Shallow minded BIGTIME. | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 287 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.49.38 |
My opinion about these dolls: is they are freaky... A bit inapropriate as they come with accessories that are unnesscessary as in her bed clothes and bed!! And, the kilt is a wee bit shorter than a true GCC kilt. Not to mention no one let me have a dog at GCC! I see them as childish, while I would never deny a keepsake of GCC for those who want one. I think something like a plate or mug, tie tack, lapel pin is a better choice. And my other beef is she is expensive... Even Christmas Barbie is much cheaper. I would never want to deny a keep sake or a memory to those who want one of their life at GCC. But, as mentioned before perhaps polling alumni as to what would be a better choice for everyone would have been a better idea. I have never denied where my feelings with GCC are, so I would venture to say that even given that. I might have considered something else as a keepsake of my time.... But at 41, a doll like that is not something I would enjoy. | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 86 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.48.106 |
Chucky comes to mind...now if they named a doll that then it would be offensive - <sorry> | ||
| sandrabrownearly Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 68 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 72.66.158.53 |
Just for the heck of it, here's my 2 cents... When I saw the doll I thought, no thank you. (As Liane said, seemed childish to me, but if someone else wanted it, help themselves.) Then I read the backlash. Completely caught me off guard. Never thought for a minute that some people may be this upset over them. I assume those who are upset have nerves so raw at this point that its all just too much. Like I said, I never would have thought that there would be such a "bru-ha-ha"...to quote Dr. Stewart...over this and I consider myself a pretty sensitive person. (And I'm a child of the 80's...Living Waters, CofJ & GCC...been there, done that, got the commemorative mug, but no thank you to the doll!) | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 88 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.48.106 |
Was there are guy doll? I dont' think so..saw the email etc. but was there? | ||
| sandrabrownearly Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 69 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 72.66.158.53 |
I don't think so...I only saw girls. | ||
| 2003grad New member Username: 2003grad Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 64.26.169.113 |
Male dolls can be ordered... they aren't made yet, but they are in the making and available for pre-order. | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 288 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.48.142 |
Hi all, I am not sure exactly what I want to communicate here except that I feel like something needs to be said. I am sorry GCC Grad 2003: that you felt bashed. I for one do not think any one has bashed you although your point is well taken. certavi_et_vici makes their points bluntly and I am sure they would never have intended to bash or offend. This comes from a personal knowledge of this person and from having clashed in the past. But, having also had the luxury of working it out. Thank you for having had the courage to tell your story about your expereince with PTSD. You certainly did not have to do that. But, I think it was brave. I for one think you have been very kind and sensitive and it appears that you have always chosen your words very carefully and given the time period in which you graduated high school I would venture to state that you are an intelligent and well spoken, mature young lady. As far as I am concerned your opinions are welcome and I do not get the feeling that anybody would see you in the same light as others you mentioned. So, I just want to apologize to you if you were offended. I do not think any offense was indeed intentional. BUT, having said that: I still think that the dolls are really creepy reminders whether or not all was sane and rational at GCC or not. I laughed when I heard the news of them and made some very sarcastic jokes. But, I stand by my original thought that honestly, I think that the Alumni committee or whomever thought this up did not think it through well. I am curious to know how many have been ordered. I still think there are better and more "grown up" ways to commemorate GCC. As previously stated I am not a GCC supporter and lean towards the other side. But, had the item been something else I would certainly consider purchasing it. | ||
| wagener84 Intermediate Member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 104 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 199.214.192.50 |
okay...I'll order a doll..but only if I can blow it up and they are made to resemble some of the GCC hotties back in the day... KIDDING!!!! Just trying to lighten things up a bit here folks!! Now if theres a Sandra Brown edition available...Im in...lol ;) | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.240.195.52 |
Unfortunately the photos in the e-mail are no longer working. However the dolls that were pictured (lower elementary, upper elementary, and upper school) in the e-mail were all wearing uniforms that seemed to resemble the last few years the school was open rather then the traditional Gordon plaid we all remember. So it is entirely possible this was done intentionally so as to try to be as sensitive as possible. Also I have to wonder how many people who were offended by the thought of a Grenville doll received the alumni e-mail which offered them for sale, vs. how many heard about it through the G&M or on either Factnet page. I can completely understand how the dolls could offend people, but if they were marketed only to alumni who were members of the association (and thus by inference, wanting to be contacted about Grenville events and other such things) and were wearing a modern uniform then it seems as though this is a pretty trivial thing compared to everything else to be up in arms about | ||
| sandrabrownearly Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 71 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 72.66.158.53 |
A Sandra Brown Doll...oh, Mr. Wagener, you are funny! (Only in your dreams, mister! Only in your dreams...;-) | ||
| andtototoo New member Username: andtototoo Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.232.177.62 |
It's taken me a long time to get my account reactiveated. I wanted to reply to Certavi's post at the beginning of this thread. Certavi: 2003Grad is right. It is all about you, it really is. "Effigies of the Abused"??? Please. Don't flatter yourself. There were many who attended GCC who were not abused and may want a memento of their time there. Let those who enjoyed GCC buy their dolls and perhaps you can try to be mature enough to validate and acknowledge their experience too. It is not all about you. Put your feet up and mix yourself another gin and tonic. RELAX. | ||
| gcc_1981_grad Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 96 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.51.137.19 |
on their own - the dolls are a bit silly and uninteresting - what makes them interesting is that they represent abused students - I can see them becoming a collectors item under such circumstances | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.240.195.52 |
If the dolls are silly and uninteresting on their own, as you state, then that means anything they are beyond that (such as representing abused students)is something that you've projected onto them. | ||
| cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 174 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 |
andtototoo------Hey, the threads have been coming along nicely without too much bashing. So PLEASE don't start up!!! No need to be telling "certavi" to be mixing another gin and tonic and relaxing. He can speak his mind just like you can! | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.240.195.52 |
perhaps if people are just speaking their minds, then they can be allowed to do so... | ||
| wagener84 Intermediate Member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 106 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.151.117.98 |
Ah Sandra...whats life without dreams! ;) | ||
| mandatoryfun New member Username: mandatoryfun Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.231.188.51 |
What you have all said is pretty right: 1. It's somewhat weird/creepy 2. It's not something to get too excited about. Chill. 3. It speaks to a shocking and continuing lack of understanding by the school of what went on 4. Some people will innocently enjoy the dolls as a keepsake of their positive time at GCC, and it's done out of good (though typically naive) intentions 5. People would buy more if there were a "Sandra Brown" doll This issue, if you can call it that, and people's responses to it remind me of any number of divergent responses to GCC/CofJ developments. You've got people like Latelights and 2003grad who approach things with scepticism because they didn't see the damage the school was doing at the time, and then you've got people like Cryfreedom who went through it. Now that I've had more time to process and learn about what went on and what goes on at the CofJ/GCC, I'm sorry to say that I think the dolls are even more of a non-issue: the pain, damage and abuse perpetrated by those in charge runs deeper than FACTnet explains, deeper than the MacNeils Sr. seem to understand, deeper than the hurt and disrespect that boarding students endured. Someone made dolls? Whatever. A misdemeanor among a calamity. I do realize talk is cheap, but the more I hear from sources I trust, the more insignificant someone's efforts with dolls become. There are still staff that think it was all great. I would be interested to know which of them *don't* still have family at the CofJ . . . | ||
| andtototoo New member Username: andtototoo Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
Cryfreedom: The point I would like to make in a non sarcastic way is that some posters would do well to walk their talk... Certavi said: "Perhaps 2003Grad needs to be more sensitive to the experience of others...". The "effigies of the abused" comment was inappropriate and insensitive to those whose GCC experience was a good one. It implies that all GCC students (which the doll represents) were abused. This is not so. Another example of not walking their talk is Wagener84's inappropriate sexual comment "I'll order a doll..but only if I can blow it up and they are made to resemble some of the GCC hotties back in the day...Now if theres a Sandra Brown edition available...Im in" Wagener84 said he was kidding. Perhaps FF was kidding with his inappropriate sexual comments. I was called a "b-tch in heat" by FF. He, too, said he was kidding. Who is to say he was not? Who is to say that Wagener84 is not kidding? | ||
| 2003grad New member Username: 2003grad Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 64.26.169.113 |
Thank you to all of you who 'stood up' for me. I would also like to apologise however. I think I over reacted to certavi's post. Yes, it hurt and yes, I found it offensive, but I shouldn't have reacted as strongly as I did. I think the reason I did was because this has been so hard for me. So hard to try and wrap my head around and I have tried so hard to be respectful and ask questions to try to understand without belittling or negating anyone's experience. I sincerely hope no one has been offended by anything I have written because that has never been my intention. My sole purpose of being here, even tho it rips me apart to hear some of things people are writing, is to attempt to better understand. I am still not sure how I will accomplish this, but all I ask if for you to bear with me. Yes I will ask questions but I ask that you remember I am only asking because of a need to understand, not because of any desire to offend, belittle, or accuse. I think that's all I have to say. | ||
| wagener84 Intermediate Member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 107 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 199.214.192.50 |
andtototoo...give me a break. My comments are nothing more than trying to lighten up the discussion and bring some laughter to a rather moribund crowd. Sandra Brown knows me well and also knows that my comments are nothing more than jokes between ADULTS. If she has a problem with my comments...I am confident she will tell me so and speak for herself and I will respect her opinion. To compare my comments to other adults to what Farnsworth perpetrated with minors is absolutely ludicrous and actually laughable. I don't pretent to assume Im perfect in any way but personally don't find innocent teasing or jokes between adults to be offensive. Lighten up. | ||
| andtototoo New member Username: andtototoo Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
Wagener84 -- I am not concerned about how your comment affected Sandra or the GCC hotties. It did, however, offend me. I found your "innocent teasing" sexist and belittling -- joking or not. One person's joke is another person's degradation. | ||
| wagener84 Intermediate Member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 108 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 199.214.192.50 |
Maybe in the world of the C of J myt comments are offensive..but then again, in your world most everything contrary to the teachings of the Holy Mother is offensive right? My comments were not directed to you and were not meant to be offensive. If you were a "GCC hottie" from the early 80s then I apologize to you. If you were not in attendance at GCC from the timeframe I speak of...get over yourself and...lighten up!! | ||
| sandrabrownearly Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 72 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 72.66.158.53 |
I think Mike and I talk so much on Facebook that we didn't think about the mixed company here. I know, because I know Mike, that he was just joking. Twenty years ago, I would have had a different reaction. But at 41, it kind of makes my day! (Geez...what does that say about me?!) Mike...anyone that knows you wouldn't find similarities between you and FF...Please don't take that comment to heart. Andtototoo...I am truly sorry that those comments offended you. I don't want anyone to be uncomfortable here. As I've read here many times, it's not always about the intention...it's about the effect. I know there was no intention to offend, but it looks like that was the effect, so I'm sorry. | ||
| wagener84 Intermediate Member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 109 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.151.117.98 |
Hey Sandra...no need to apologize...I am the offender here so I should be the one apologizing for offending anyone. Im sorry to offend...it wasn't my intention and I certainly do not degrade women. Once again, sorry if my joking around caused anyone any grief. Have a nice day. | ||
| inthe70s New member Username: inthe70s Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.242.109.43 |
It doesn't take much to get drawn back into the past .. the memories, the nightmares, the horrors, and the hurt. The reactions to the Dolls makes that evident. There is nothing wrong with that, it makes us human. It also tells us that as much as we have grown and gotten past some things, there is still much healing needed and sores lurking below the surface. I don't think the Dolls hold any mysterious meaning behind them other than a nice lady put a lot of time and effort into making them. Do they appeal to everyone? No. Were they intended to be some secret weapon to rub salt in our wounds? I would guess No again. I don't think they were meant to be anything other than what they are .. something from the heart someone was generous enough to give their time and talent to. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and guess that those that really struggled with negative experiences during their time there wouldn't be interested in a mug either. I don't think the item is the issue, I think most any item for some, would be a trigger as the dolls have been. Particularly when it is fueled by the press etc. What is important for our healing and moving forward, is what we do with the triggers and the feelings they bring to the surface. Those triggers vary for everyone, from press releases to law suits to the closing to the keep sake offered. The feelings and memories are real .. they do exist ... but let's apply what we have learned since our time there to look at triggers objectively and try not to read too much into every single thing that comes along. Failing to be able to do that, we will never be able to move past the past And we can do something these years later that we couldn't do at the time .. support each other. I respectfully put out there that perhaps this isn't the place to joke and try to make light of the mood on any given thread. People really need to be heard, some for the first time ever. just my thoughts ~ | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 100 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
Sandra and Mike, while it is very gracious of you to apologize for your harmless banter among friends, it was really just that. If anything this whole bizarre doll thing needed some levity. And you certainly don't owe an apology to that "andtototoo" who continues to denigrate and demean former GCCers who expressed their struggles on these threads. | ||
| delight_session New member Username: delight_session Post Number: 13 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 131.137.245.199 |
Id like to think of the dolls as marionette's with strings reaching up to heaven and God as the puppeteer. | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 91 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.48.106 |
I am getting a male doll for sure - sorry kids, twisted as you all may think it is.... I guess I am born follower not a leader!!! |
