| Author | Message | ||
     trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 3085 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.30 |
What is the general thinking here about John Hagee and his "In Defense of Israel" book that reportedly claims that Jesus never offered himself to Israel as the Messiah? Hagee is also well known for his desire for a war with Iran and his divorce and remarriage. Thoughts? Rants? Innuendos? | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 271 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.19.17.167 |
Well, you bring up several issues, Trainedobserver, but you didn't mention the most important one: JOHN HAGEE IS FAT -- HE'S OBESE!!! When it comes to the fattest of the fat, Christians weigh more than other religious groups and un-churched people, according to Kenneth Ferraro, a sociologist at the University of Purdue. His analysis of data from two national surveys, published in the Review of Religious Research, showed that regardless of the religion, religious people tend to weigh more than their nonreligious counterparts. While his discovery applies to all major religions in the United States, American Jews, Muslims and Buddhists on average weigh less than American Christians. Among Christian denominations, Southern Baptists have the most overweight and obese members. Proverbs 23:20-21 warns us, "Do not join those who drink too much wine or gorge themselves on meat, for drunkards and gluttons become poor, and drowsiness clothes them in rags." Proverbs 23:2 proclaims, "put a knife to your throat if you are given to gluttony." So, um...what was the question again? Oh, Hagee's Israel book/stance. I was at a Billye Brim conference a year ago (my first and LAST!) and it was 100% PRO ISRAEL, "HATE THE MUSLIMS" (and I mean HATE!) and "The Muslims are coming to get us, be afraid!" Many people were walking out of the conference because it was supposed to be a PRAYER CONFERENCE...we prayed TWICE as a group over a 5-day, 3-meetings a day event. And the whole "Night to Honor Israel" thing was preached over and over. Yes, I support Israel but Billye, Hagee and others have ZERO evangelism efforts toward the Jewish people -- they want Israel to become a nation so it will usher in the Last Days. The sad thing is, Billye, et al are all pre-tribulation and think Christians will be "raptured" out of here before the persecution begins. (Tell that to Christians in North Korea, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Somalia, Maldives,Yemen, Bhutan, Viet Nam, Laos and Afghanistan who are being killed/tortured TODAY--those are the 2007 "Open Doors' World Watch Persecution Index" list.) I think Hagee and the whole "Pro-Israel (but don't tell them about Jesus!)" movement will falter soon because it is REALLY about getting political clout in Washington. I'm really not kidding about this pre/post-trib thing. Those silly LEFT BEHIND books have mislead MILLIONS of Christians to believe they will be "raptured" and when the persecution starts, they will fold like a $2 suitcase. The Bible says there will be a "GREAT falling away" and "the love of many will grow cold" and that refers to Christians;they fall away because they have heard for YEARS "no tribulation for me/I'll fly away"and when they don't, they'll turn from God. There is ONE Second Coming and EVERY EYE SHALL SEE HIM. We are NOT destined for God's WRATH, but the tribulation is NOT His wrath. Again, look to our suffering brothers and sisters I mentioned. Our is it just American Christians who will be raptured? While Hagee HAS done a LOT of humanitarian work for the Jewish people, overall he loves having his picture taken in Washington, DC and, as we all know by now (repeat after me....) WHEN YOU MIX JESUS AND POLITICS, YOU GET POLITICS. Republicans fear God. Democrats fear God and LOVE GOD! (End of rant!_  | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 3086 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.170.113.133 |
Excellent Fat rant! I agree that these folks are trying to force world events to fit Biblical prophecy for perhaps a mix of reasons. Not the least repulsive and scary is the notion that doing so will usher in some sort of immortality for themselves but also the notion that they will be in control, kings and judges of nations is pretty vile and frightening in its own right. Fortunately I'm a Libertarian. | ||
| bachman Intermediate Member Username: bachman Post Number: 273 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.23.81.168 |
Yeah, I can see them on Judgment Day: "See, Jesus! We helped bring the end of the world so now we can rule and rein with you!" And He will just sigh and roll His eyes. "Yeah, thanks for your help..." | ||
| bear Advanced Member Username: bear Post Number: 945 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.236.150.133 |
Back in 2003, JH made a declaration, after the start of the war, that we would see "In a matter of months,not years, the glorious return of our Lord and Saviour, Jesus Christ." I heard this with my own ears, and I wish I had the telecast number for greater proof. Did it happen? Was there any response, correction or retraction for this statement? He also said, during the early days of the war: "I now eat Freedom Fries, not French Fries" as a personal retaliation against the French governments opposition to Joining the war. The truth is, big boy has had a large portion of Freedom fries. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 730 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.229.6.252 |
Hey, Mr. Bear. I have been out hoboing for some time now, just checked into a motel. For some reason, I don't understand, they gave me a bar of soap while I was checking in. You pose an interesting problem. The Watchtower Bible & Tract Society was formed by setting a date for the end of the world. The original theory was replaced with 144,000 witnesses. That theory alos called for the end of the world. 9-11, the WB&TS pulled their websites claiming the end was at hand. The Adventist Movement was also founded on an end of the world prediction. Perhaps a better idea would be to wait and see. Obviously, no one in their right mind, names a date. OH man, I donin forgit how to get the cover off this bar of soap. Can you just wear it out? | ||
| bear Advanced Member Username: bear Post Number: 946 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.236.150.133 |
atm, What kind of motel are you in?  I used to be a JW, so I know all too well the problems that arise from date setting. It is sad that folks continue to practice this is light of the scriptural warnings. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Advanced Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 748 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Hey, Mr. Bear: I do try my wery best to stay out of hotels with names like "Crossbar, Bastille, Big House, Bridewell, Bucket, Calaboose, Can, Carcel, Chokey, Clink, Cooler, Coop, Freezer, Hoosegow, Jug, Pokey, Rock Pile, Skookum-house, etc." The room service in those places is simply deplorable! I agree (date setting). I would, though, take it a step further and say all sensationalism is unacceptable. | ||
| bear Advanced Member Username: bear Post Number: 949 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.236.150.133 |
I agree 100% | ||
| anony Intermediate Member Username: anony Post Number: 319 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 70.240.75.39 |
Obviously Hagee is as twisted as the rest of the WoF televangelists. They're all a bunch of self-interested promoters of their own agendas that have nothing to do with God's. They're all just full of themselves...including Hagee. Boy if that isn't obvious. | ||
| trainedobserver Senior Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 3093 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.53 |
One of the questions I have is just what are the people who are supporting Hagee thinking? He has a (no pun intended) huge following doesn't he? I can't imagine that his normal base would accept and go along with this new turn in his theology. How different is it than suddenly announcing that you are the anti-christ and showing off your new 666 and SSS tattoos like Jose Luis De Jesus Miranda. Know what I mean? http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=4adc1e71fd | ||
| inkorrekt Senior Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 1122 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 75.166.56.69 |
I have met Hagee. He is not as fat as he is reported to be.He is little over weight.But, he is an enchanting speaker. He can keep anyone spellbound. However, he was wrong is setting the dates for the return of Christ. We are given the indicatons. No one know when He will return. But, the believers are called to be ready whenever He returns.People have been waiting for the return for 2000 years.No one else has supported the cause of Jews like Hagee. He is also right when he said that Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah. This distinguishes Him from every other godman who claims to be a messiah ("Rev"Sun Yung Moon). I met a Moonie's disciple and challenged him. He almost ran away from me.Well, it is very important for all those men on the TV to be very careful in what they say.They can guide as well as misguide millions of followers. | ||
| mcmstaff78 Senior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 1965 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 167.193.134.61 |
You mean the camera adds, what, like a hundred pounds in his case? You might want to do some study on the Messianic implications of the title "Son of Man". Also, Christ affirms St. Peter's answer to His question, "who do you say I am". While you can quibble over semantics, it's a pretty clear implication even if you don't except it as explicit. Of course, Christ was vastly more than the Jewish concept of Messiah. He is the Incarnate God, divinity stooping down and assuming humanity. As an Orthodox hymn proclaims, In His compassion, the One who rules the heights of heaven has become as we are, born of a Maiden who has not known man. The Word who before was wholly outside matter, in these last times has assumed the material substance of the flesh so that He might draw to Himself fallen Adam, the first-formed man. Or, as Charles Wesley wrote later: Christ by highest Heaven adored, Christ, the Everlasting Lord; Late in time behold Him come, Offspring of a Virgin’s womb: Veiled in flesh the Godhead see; Hail th’ Incarnate Deity, Pleased as man with men to appear, Jesus our Immanuel here! Messiah? Of course. But much more! | ||
| riverose New member Username: riverose Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 76.30.72.197 |
Lmao, what? Jesus never claimed to be the Messiah? Lol. I'll have to take a look at this dude. | ||
| anony Intermediate Member Username: anony Post Number: 335 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.151.245.251 |
Looks like Hageee has recanted and is going to change his book. http://www.flashfloods.com/blast/0705v5PrafRE/dec057.html Scroll down to 2nd article. | ||
| mcmstaff78 Senior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 2029 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 167.193.134.61 |
What does it say, though, that a prominent evangelical (love that the story keeps using that term rather than Charismatic or word of Faith, which would be more apropos) can get a foundational truth of the Christian faith wrong? Seems to be a quality control issue somewhere. | ||
| baloneydude Member Username: baloneydude Post Number: 56 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 65.244.146.210 |
"peace on Earth and good will to all men!!!" "for unto you this day is born a Savior". uh...well...hmmmmm? does that sound like... maybe... could be - Messiah!!!! shalom!!!!! if Jesus is not the Messiah then why palm sunday? the signs fulfilled... like riding on unbroken colt, through the streets of Jerusalem... and other things that we as Christians should understand and know better than mormons know about joey smith? "of course" he declared it and also with Pilate. He also allowed people with free will and from varied authoratative and ethnic background to conclude based on the evidence and other aspects of His life and ministry. what about Peter and "upon this rock (truth)(revelation from the Father etc) I will build my church". john is way too hard, harsh and overweight which shows his anger and control issues. when he stops condemning, yelling, issuing threats and when he can find the composure and self control to lose 80-90lbs in a peaceful and healthy plan...then he will be more welcomed in our living room. he is not our pastor and we never submit our lives and finances to someone with his anger and control problems no matter how big (lol) he is in some circles. some of his teachings are very cool. he seems like he wants to glorify God and teach righteous living and he has influence. but. he just is not the best example and the most gentle and accurate spirit. why would the dude have a doctor on speaking for weeks about health and weight and nutrition and then remain obese? not that you can't be godly and be overweight. and yes...there are all kinds chemical and behavioral reasons why people get and stay fatter. but he is a leader and over eating in his life is an issue and reflects an anger problem. his anger skews him and a lust for power that he would not venture to monitor about himself or name as a character problem. if you want to be castigated and controlled and mocked and told what to do without a proper example of health and love from the source...hey you have a free will! (if you want to read and be entertained by a really rude chic from Australia who is a former prison inmate and uses it to pretense she is apostolic and favored, check out carman threads. she loves me!!! pray for her if you so desire, we do! she has a spirit of control rage witchcraft and false authority. sad. interesting but sad.) john haggee's doctrine is not completely Biblical and the... control...BALONEY. | ||
| baloneydude Member Username: baloneydude Post Number: 57 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 65.244.146.210 |
enchanting? "spell" bound? not really Fruit of the Spirit. he is overweight and it is psychological and spiritual. rage and control are not exactly godly and domination and arrogance not a good example. don't believe the baloney. | ||
| inkorrekt Senior Member Username: inkorrekt Post Number: 1138 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 65.100.179.246 |
Enchanting and spell bound are not the fruits of the spirit. When you speak, do you always manifest the fruits of the spirit? Is there any other better word in the English language to express what I felt? May be you like the word CHARISMA as you sound like a charismatic. | ||
| baloneydude Member Username: baloneydude Post Number: 58 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 65.244.146.210 |
do you want to be enchanted or encouraged? spell bound or upheld in truth? that wasn't really a critical comment on you, more on his impact...if that is what you really felt. no one always...manifests the fruit of the Spirit. but it is definitely a goal and priority and discipline. have you looked up the basic definitions for enchanted and spell or bound? moved. healed. cleansed. provoked to good works. turned from a deception. blessed soul, set on fire spirit, strengthened, compelled...yeah those are the things one should and can feel from the anointing and impact of a righteous man. |
