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Message |
    
jasonerik
Member
Username: jasonerik
Post Number: 61
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.202.26.147
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 10:19 pm: | 
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Does anyone else believe the twelve tribes have the holy spirit of Yahshua but they are still not there for one reason or another?
I already know some of the people here dont believe the Twelve Tribes are the disciples.
But I am curious whether about the people who the creator has revealed himself to, through the twelve tribes, like myself. |
jasonerik
Member
Username: jasonerik
Post Number: 62
Registered: 11-2004
Posted From: 69.202.26.147
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 10:23 pm: |
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As for me, the creator has revealed himself to me through the Twelve Tribes people and life.
I am not there currently because of issues I have. Not issues with the community, or the people there, or anything really externally . But more so with a struggle I have within me.
I could go on and on about my 'issues' but ill save that for another time or place.
thanks for your time, and wishing you guys all good things |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1777
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 07, 2007 - 11:23 pm: |
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"the creator has revealed himself to me through the Twelve Tribes people and life."
How so? |
beenthereonehat
Junior Member
Username: beenthereonehat
Post Number: 43
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 209.188.36.50
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 3:18 am: |
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The Creator can use a rock as well as a star.
An animal, a human and nature in general.
Some things about the Creator were revealed to me through the TT yet I do not believe they have the holy spirit.
Perhaps some truly loving people in there do. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1779
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Thursday, November 08, 2007 - 9:54 am: |
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What in the world is the "Holy Spirit"????
Dont confuse some made up entity with the love of life and the milk of human kindness... |
heartstar12
New member
Username: heartstar12
Post Number: 18
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 71.127.166.28
| | Posted on Saturday, November 10, 2007 - 4:21 pm: |
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I convinced that the spirit behind the "Twelve Tribes" is not the Spirit of God. This does not mean brothers and sisters there with sincere hearts who seek God everyday are without the Holy Spirit. Not at all. Wherever we live, we all have the opportunity to seek and to better know God.
The Tribes think God's Spirit cannot live outside their communes, yet the same world sins have occurred in the Tribes. And consider some wacky things I was taught there:
-The assassination of Abraham Lincoln is commended.-The assassination of Martin Luther King Jr. is commended.-Black people remain under an ancient curse to be the servants of white people, unless they join the Tribes.
-Women are usually not allowed to go to a hospital to have their babies. One girl I knew suffered for 6 days in the commune with a breech birth.
-Children are hit for fantasy, making funny faces and all "foolishness."
I'm just scratching the surface.
God has not given Himself to the Twelve Tribes RELIGION. He has given Himself freely to any individual, in the Tribes or elsewhere who seek Him. It's easy to romanticize about their communal life, as many beautiful people live there, and are trying to do right and be full of love. I love them too, but not the religion.
Do you think that only those who join the Tribes will go to God's best Heaven, the Holy City?
Do you think that those who leave Tribes membership will automatically go to Death for up to a thousand years to pay for their sins, or go to the Lake of Fire forever?
If your like me, Jason, and go back to live there, it will be very clear, very soon, if you really believe they are God's Only Chosen People in this age. It is a cruel spirit that combines so much beauty with religious bondage and underlying darkness. Unneeded pain and suffering that is attributed to God's will.
False spirits have inspired many well-intentioned founders of various religions.
If life in the Tribes is so wonderful, people wouldn't have to promise to stay there for life.
The life they so beautifully describe in the Freepapers is only giving half of the story.
It is interesting to note that some cults who actually are inspired by a false spirit are the very ones who say that only they have the Holy Spirit and no one else does.
This in itself is a ploy of evil.
Yes, life would be more simple if God's People were either here or there, but it isn't that simple, I wish it were.
The wheat and the tares will grow together until the end of the age, as Yahshua taught.
Yahshua didn't tell people to give all their money and possessions to a Twelve Tribes. And most people he taught and was pleased with actually kept their own homes and jobs "in the world."
On Earth, wherever we go, we are "in the world." It is within our own hearts with love to God and kindness to others that we transcend "the world."
A person can be very busy in the Tribes, and fail to enter the quietness within themselves, where the real God connection is made.
Yahshua said that the Kingdom is not here or there, it is within you.
You are a child of God. If you believe the Gospel, it is because Yahshua died for you because He has always loved you, not because you are "in the container" of the Twelve Tribes. They make living there a condition of God's salvation and continuing love.
The Tribes have the Holy Spirit in that members there as individuals are connected to God, not because the religion is. And you can be sure that not all Tribes members have the Holy Spirit. I've lived with some criminals there as well.
I hope you find what is best for you, Jason. Wherever that is, God is with you and will always love you. His love continues regardless of doctrine and memberships. "The container for the Holy Spirit" is our own hearts. We are the Temple of the Living God, not a commune, or church.
(Message edited by heartstar12 on November 10, 2007) |
anon_e_mus
Advanced Member
Username: anon_e_mus
Post Number: 750
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 71.188.13.94
| | Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 4:50 pm: |
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GOOD QUESTION!
You might find this odd coming from me, but.....
I definitely believe the TT's have the Holy Spirit!!!
I also believe that whereas He is in their midst, they are doing some selective listening/obeying. I have a picture of little child covering their ears and saying "LA LA LA LA.....I'M NOT LISTENING!"
The Holy Spirit has been trying to get through to them with correction on some core issues for many years, but their closed and inbred nature, along with their refusal to receive correction from outsiders provides the perfect atmosphere for selective obedience.
The sad thing is that for the most part, they desire to serve Him with all of their hearts and lives, but this impediment makes them miss out on the Joy of the Lord. |
brother_esau
New member
Username: brother_esau
Post Number: 6
Registered: 11-2007
Posted From: 24.127.182.239
| | Posted on Friday, November 16, 2007 - 10:58 am: |
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I used to believe in the hs. The TT taught that what the hs seeks is a vessel; not individuals, but a people.
Then they proved to not be what they said they were.
Seems to me that anyone who has been exposed to their teaching, leaves, and still believes they themselves have the HS would either be misguided or they need to quick start their own church. |
heartstar12
New member
Username: heartstar12
Post Number: 20
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 71.127.185.194
| | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 7:20 am: |
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Sorry, sincerely, I got a little lost, but maybe that's okay. About the Holy Spirit. Maybe saying someone or a group "have" (possess) the Holy Spirit is not the best why to phrase the question or think about it.
I appreciate what you said, anon_e_mus and brother_esau. The two perspectives give me something to think about, and I can understand the logic behind each view. |
heartstar12
New member
Username: heartstar12
Post Number: 21
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 71.127.185.194
| | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 7:30 am: |
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I guess what's in my heart about the Spirit of God is that, I really felt while in the Tribes, that there was something evil behind the scenes. In addition to that, there were some paranormal happenings experienced by myself and others that were somewhat chilling. Now, when I discussed some of these matters with my shepherd, he said he did not doubt in some of these occurrences, but felt it was the Evil One prowling around. I'm not pretending to understand much about these matters, only what I saw and felt, and what some others experienced. But, in general, there was like a veil that came down over my consciousness when I sort of discarded common sense to believe in the Tribes. I had it happen several times. Because of these things, the dark nature of it all, I feel the prevailing spirit at the Tribes is not the Spirit. If this makes sense, I hope, and understand any who would disagree. |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2546
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 71.255.151.176
| | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 9:50 am: |
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what i experienced is that many who truly had a heart to serve god were pushed out.
the only ones who stay it seems are the ones who tolerate the things that go on there in the name of unity.
they must all be wrong together as well as right together.
there does not seem to be a limit on how wrong they can be before you can speak out.
i do not think anyone is allowed to question any teachings.
i have never seen it done at least.
i remember questioning the discernment of the group when they were to decide if someone had faith enough to be baptised.
i never said it publicly of course but i think that they were often wrong.
i usually abstained from the process.
my discernment always seemed to be different from the rest.
they would say of course it is different that is why you left.
that is proof that you did not have the holy spirit and therefore your discernment was wrong.
my experience tells me different.
that is the reason i never went back. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1801
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 11:56 am: |
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Foak, How much faith is needed to be baptised? How do you measure faith? How does anyone truly know anothers heart?
heartstar, "I can understand the logic behind each view." ???? I see no logic in either of them! Belief in the unknown and unseen is illogical!
"there was like a veil that came down over my consciousness when I sort of discarded common sense to believe in the Tribes"
I would call it the "Rose Colored Glasses" of blind faith and the total disregard of logic and critical thinking that you HAD TO TAKE ON in order to be able to survive in such a high control group. If you didnt, it was just as THEY said it would be... A torture chamber for the flesh. And that was just another way of them saying "Quit questioning and get back to work! Your not suppose to think! Do as your told and dont question anything! If you do, your questioning Gods will for you!"
We wanted to trust God and believe that what was going on around us was HIS will. What was being taught to us was HIS TRUTH and we were allright as long as we OBEYED!
I made the mistake of questioning a free paper Under Attack
that I felt had venom in it and that it was attacking Bob Pardon, who I did not know then, (ironically he and I are good friends now and he and his wife Judy are two of the most caring and kind people I know)and I thought to myself, "this is not what Gods people would say! Yahshua would not approve of this!"
I spoke to an elder about it and was harshly corrected for even questioning or thinking ill of this paper let alone voicing an opinion. I was told I had a "Christian Spirit" and was bringing a "strange fire" into the "inner courts"
Of course I repented just in order to survive.
"Fix reason firmly in her seat, and call to her tribunal every fact, every opinion. Question with boldness even the existence of a God; because, if there be one, He must more approve of the homage of reason, than that of blindfolded fear." -Thomas Jefferson |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1802
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 12:55 pm: |
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Here are the last few paragraphs of that free paper...
Why is it always those who think they have the "right doctrine" who persecute and kill those whom they think have the "wrong doctrine"? They are those who "claim to see" (John 9:41). Those who boast in their "right doctrine" are the very ones who would think they are doing God a favor.And the TT doesn't boast that THEY have the "right doctrine" and condemn all those who think differently????
It is a sad irony that in Plymouth, Massachusetts, the very village where our courageous Pilgrim forefathers established a beachhead for freedom of religion in the New World, self-appointed Inquisitor Bob Pardon is fueling the fires of animosity against us. We are not troubled that he disagrees with our understanding of the Bible; he is entitled to his own opinions. HOGWASH!!! Anyone who does not receive the TTs doctrine is condemned by the TT to the LAKE OF FIRE for eternity!!! What is really troubling is that, in a country whose system of justice is founded on the principle that one is presumed innocent until proven guilty, Mr. Pardon aggressively portrays us as presumed guilty unless proven innocent. And really, no proof we might offer can stand in his courtroom since he holds his handful of disgruntled ex-members as more credible than the thousands of happy men, women, and children who daily love and care for one another in the communities of our Twelve Tribes. More lies! There are so many unhappy people that suffer in the Tribes all the while thinking that it's "Gods" will for them. Did not Yahshua say "It is finished"? A handful of ex-members? I would bet that the ex-members now out number the TTs current population and the ex-members ARE more credible than the current members because the current members say what they are told to say and the TT teaches that it's OK to lie to non-members!
(cont.) |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1803
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Saturday, November 17, 2007 - 12:57 pm: |
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(under attack cont.)
But we are not surprised at this treatment, for our Master Yahshua, the Messiah, forewarned us that it would be this way. It was the religious establishment that persecuted Him and ultimately demanded His execution — And what did Yahshua do when he was tried, convicted, scourged and crucified? HE DIDNT SAY A WORD!!! He was the silent lamb!!! He turned the other cheek!!!religious leaders like Bob Pardon were threatened by His radical message and the loyalty of His followers. They considered Him a heretic, and His followers a dangerous cult that might have been eradicated shortly after His death had it not been for the wisdom of one Pharisee named Gamaliel:
"Then one in the council stood up, a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law held in respect by all the people, and commanded them to put the apostles outside for a little while. And he said to them: "Men of Israel, take heed to yourselves what you intend to do regarding these men. For some time ago Theudas rose up, claiming to be somebody. A number of men, about four hundred, joined him. He was slain, and all who obeyed him were scattered and came to nothing. After this man, Judas of Galilee rose up in the days of the census, and drew away many people after him. He also perished, and all who obeyed him were dispersed. And now I say to you, keep away from these men and let them alone; for if this plan or this work is of men, it will come to nothing; but if it is of God, you cannot overthrow it — lest you even be found to fight against God." (Acts 5:34-39)
We wish that the self-appointed cult experts of today would observe this simple wisdom.
So this simple wisdom applied today would say "Don't worry or do anything about the Muslim suicidal extremists that are killing innocent people everywhere, if it's of men, it will fade away...and if it's of God, you can't beat them...and dont worry about the innocent children or even the adults and families whose lives, mental and physical healths and faiths have been destroyed by the "innocuous cult" called the Twelve Tribes.
|
heartstar12
New member
Username: heartstar12
Post Number: 22
Registered: 4-2006
Posted From: 69.202.98.183
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 9:46 am: |
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Hi, when I was talking about the logic behind each view, I was thinking of Bible verses that would seem to support each view.
Now, I don't base my own personal conclusions on just because it is in the Bible etc.
Sometimes, what is unknown and unseen to one person, may be seen or known to another, but to me it remains subjective, if one person is just experiencing it, so no sense in trying to prove it to another. Referring to supernatural phenomenon.
To a lesser degree, when I pray, for example, I feel a higher power if you will, often. I see results of prayer, inside of the TT or outside.
I don't think you have to be in a group to experience God, Higher Power, or what you wish to call It/Him/Her.
Naba, I respect you, that some of this sounds like nonsense. It's difficult for me to explain what I am thinking in a few words.
The veil I referred to was an actual phenomenon to me. Similar to a slightly altered state of consciousness. And, what is common sense to one person, might not be common to another.
What I was thinking there was this. When I first visited the Tribes, I found out that they thought they were the only ones who had the Holy Spirit, the only ones who were truly being saved, etc., but because of various circumstances in my life, I went back anyway, several times.
I can't explain this well, but when I went in there to live, I quickly began to think differently, sometimes almost as soon as I went in. The veil thing maybe sounds weird, I know. Maybe compare it to some kind of drug trip starting. I never did drugs, but from what people say. Yes, at times, it really was like I was looking through a different pair of glasses.
I have seen ghosts and some other spirits before, some as a child, so these things are not unreal to me or others who have experienced such. I don't usually mention it, because others who haven't seen such, sometimes just ridicule it etc. I understand. Have to be in a relaxed state.
From another angle, it seems people like myself can spend years speculating on the Holy Spirit and communes, and various doctrines. What might be more profitable to one's self, family, and society, would be to get better educated, get a better job, and be of more service to others out here. This is what I wish I had done differently, and am trying to correct.
Also, yes, my experience exactly when ever I questioned anything, like yours.
Yes, I wanted to believe, I wanted to be in the Tribes, and yes, I checked out my brain at the door, and worked to sell myself on their beliefs, and suggested they start putting Bible verses in the Freepapers, which at the time, they weren't doing much of.
Also, God could make it much easier on all of us and appear. "Here I am, Here's what is true..."
I very much believe in a God/High Power...whatever name you wish to give, because of personal experiences, but because it's personal, I understand better agnostic and atheists and are thankful for their point of view as well.
I think when one is still and loses sight of the physical dimension, other reality better kicks in to play. That is my experience. I think it's a challenge for myself and others to slow down that much and put aside distractions.
"When there is nothing, there is God."
"Be still (motionless) and know God."
For me, these things are true.
You both explained things very well in the last four posts. I think it will help people who come here. I started writing for awhile to release some pent up emotions inside about the Tribes. The whole thing really had a grip on me for years. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1804
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 11:57 am: |
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Whenever I shared at a minchat I would get flush and a stream of emotions. I would cry from the feeling. I felt as if joy and sadness was poured over me at the same time. I truly felt some of the words out of my mouth were not my own. Keep in mind I was not shy or ever had stage fright. I'm trying to figure out was this was just a chemical brain dump or was it something different...
I was once told that it was natural for a man to cry and in many cases...Supernatural... |
john_s
Intermediate Member
Username: john_s
Post Number: 144
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 64.24.208.91
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 1:59 pm: |
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"When there is nothing, there is God. Be still (motionless) and know God."
This is mysticism.
"When the hungry are being fed, when the naked are being clothed, when the hurting are receiving comfort, when the children are hearing the Word, there is God."
This is discipleship.
Jesus wanted to make disciples of all nations, not mystics. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1805
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 3:51 pm: |
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Amen to that John!
Long time no hear! What ya been up to?
One question... don't you think the Word can be quite mystical in itself? Or does it depend on how it's spoken?
sorry...make that three questions, here is the third. Is the "Word" totally and exclusively encompassed in the Christian Bible? |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2548
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 71.255.151.176
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 6:24 pm: |
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wouldn't the author of revelation be considered a mystic?
what about the others?
peter had a vision.
paul had a vision.
stephen had a vision.
where would the prophets fit in this definition?
i am sure there are many other questions that could be asked.
i do not think it is that cut and dry.
(Message edited by fatherofaking on November 19, 2007) |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1806
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Monday, November 19, 2007 - 7:15 pm: |
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They were doin shrooms dude!
http://www.thebirdman.org/Index/Others/Others-Doc-Religion&Spirituality/+Doc-Religion&Spirituality-ReligiousDrugs/Mushrooms&Religion.htm |
john_s
Intermediate Member
Username: john_s
Post Number: 145
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 64.24.214.181
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:10 pm: |
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True discipleship obviously involves an ongoing, individual, inner, spiritual experience. But this is not to be confused with a "do nothing" mysticism. Divine communion with God, if genuine, will always result in love for and service toward one's neighbor.
I have met loads of Christians who are legends in their own minds due to what they perceive as their profound, other-worldly, mystical relationship to Jesus. These people would also qualify as some of the most self-centered, materialistic, and dishonest human beings I have ever known.
If you worship or study more than you serve, you are perpetuating another gospel. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1807
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:40 pm: |
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I believe serving is the only pure form of worship...
as far as studying...
Of making many books there is no end, and much study wearies the body. Now that all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter:
Revere God and keep Yahshua's commandments, for this is the whole duty of man.
BTW Yahshua gave over 100 commands in the Gospels on how to live ... |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2549
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 71.255.151.176
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 12:49 pm: |
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sounds like you are talking about the need for balance john.
that would make sense.
does that also include room for different gifts?
or for those who prefer a more secular vernacular,
does it leave room for the talents of everyone?
is it not necessary for some to spend time doing one thing while others do something else?
care and concern for others does not always involve working at the local food bank.
in the end it is each individual that must determine their own path.
we can only perhaps point to the entrance, everyone must walk it alone.
the path is straight and narrow and yet it hides many hazards along the way.
they are hidden by darkness, for we travel in darkness all the while that we are in these bodies.
it must be traversed with care.
care not only for ourselves but for all that we encounter along the way.
it is a wondrous path to travel when you have a flashlight.
this flashlight is the light of truth.
we must always be true to ourselves and we will then always be true to others.
To thine own-self be true;
And it must follow, as the night the day.
Thou can'st not then be false to any man.
-- Hamlet. Act I. Sc. 3
-balance-
job 31:
6 (Let me be weighed in an even balance, That God may know mine integrity); |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1808
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 1:24 pm: |
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To thine own-self be true...
But before you can do that you must know yourself!
FYI "To thine own-self be true" is one of the most touted sayings used by homosexuals in self defence of their gender preference. |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2550
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 71.255.151.176
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 2:49 pm: |
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words are mere symbols.
they carry the meaning that is given to them.
like any symbol the meaning is interpreted through our own experience. |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1809
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 5:04 pm: |
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Thats pretty mystical!  |
sabbathkeeper
Member
Username: sabbathkeeper
Post Number: 84
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 64.24.146.193
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 6:46 pm: |
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Be Here Now!Now Be Here!Here Now Be! Pass the the 'shrooms Dude!!  Call on the name of our Saviour YHVH and we will be "saved". If we keep the commandments of the Almighty we will love Him with our whole being (mystical), and our neighbor as ourselves(serving). Shalom!! If you celebrate "Thanksgiving" may you and those you love be blessed! TQ |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1810
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Tuesday, November 20, 2007 - 8:26 pm: |
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I know the only holiday the TT actually observes, other then Pesach, Yom Kippur and New Years Eve better known as "First Night" where they go out and hand out freepapers to the revelers, is Thanksgiving. They reject any "Christian" or patriotic holiday. Funny thing about that, is that Thanksgiving is totally a "Christian" or patriotic holiday!
http://www.americanvision.org/articlearchive/11-25-04.asp
http://www.christianlaw.org/articles/thanksgiving_origin.html |
john_s
Intermediate Member
Username: john_s
Post Number: 146
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 64.24.209.90
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 12:18 pm: |
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--- Is it not necessary for some to spend time doing one thing while others do something else..? In the end it is each individual that must determine their own path... To thine own self be true. ---
Sure... And I guess this is where Jesus really dropped the ball, throwing out a bunch of blanket teachings and commandments when he preached to the multitudes. Didn't he realize that those crowds were made up of INDIVIDUALS? I mean sure, one guy might find that storing up treasure is not the right thing for him, personally, but another guy might be a banker, required to store up treasure not only for himself but for all his bank's customers as well. It's just common sense.
In Christianity one size certainly DOES NOT fit all.
I'm sure, knowing what he knows now, looking down from heaven upon the magnificent theological evolution that has produced the 21st century Christian religion, Jesus wishes he could go back in time and do and say things differently.
Thankfully, the Lord can at least speak through the godly and prophetic men and women of today and thereby provide amendments and clarifications to his otherwise naive and misleading two thousand year old pronouncements.
Thank you, mystics! Keep spending your time sitting under that oak tree in deep, reverential, estatic communion with the Almighty. Without your visionary gifts, the rest of us would have no idea how to live our lives! |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2553
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 71.255.151.176
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 12:37 pm: |
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must you be so ugly john?
if i said something that was offensive i apologize.
in my opinion the things you said were designed to be hurtful.
i therefore regard you effort to teach us as having little merit.
i will say it again.
if i have hurt you in some way i apologize.
i would welcome it if my offense is made clear.
this is the hand of god in our lives.
he shows us our faults and then gives us what we need to overcome them. |
john_s
Intermediate Member
Username: john_s
Post Number: 147
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 64.24.211.228
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 2:20 pm: |
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--- must you be so ugly john? ---
Where did you find the photo?! And take it up with the Potter!
--- if i said something that was offensive i apologize. in my opinion the things you said were designed to be hurtful. ---
You caused me no offense, FOAK. I was not hurt by anything you posted. Nor was I somehow "lashing out" at you, personally. I just find that it is sometimes easier to make a point by speaking as a character, in a traditional, Christian voice, in order to reveal the absurdity (or at least the unscripturalness) of certain traditional, Christian viewpoints.
So again, you owe me no apology. This is an open forum and I would encourage you to at all times speak your mind freely.
(Though for those here who have clearly lost their minds, I would encourage silence.)
John |
fatherofaking
Senior Member
Username: fatherofaking
Post Number: 2555
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 71.255.151.176
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 2:37 pm: |
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here is something revealing that i do not remember reading before.
i had it in my bookmarks but somehow over looked it.
Wednesday, August 15, 2007
TT: Wikipedia whitewashers!
When associates of Diebold, Wal-Mart, Monsanto, the Mormons, the Church of Scientology and the Republican Party see something embarrassing on their Wikipedia page, they don't worry much about the truth content of the information, or about Wikipedia's Neutral Point of View policy, they just remove the irksome entry and often put text more favorable to them in its place.
Time to add another to the list of whitewashers. Can you guess who?
All links and most in-text references to sources critical of TT beliefs and practices were removed from the Twelve Tribes Wikipedia page back in May (I restored the link to this page). The nice thing about Wikipedia is that history of all edits are preserved. Here are some egregious edits made by someone identified only by their IP address (70.181.222.24) which traces to the Cox broadband service in Atlanta. Here are others which add text that only a TTer or a true apologist for them could write. Other edits were made by someone logged in as "Davidderush," the well known TT internet pit bull.
An ex-TTer friend of IOTTC learning of this commented: "What happened to 'Count it all joy when others speak ill of you...'?"
Funny how those most dependent upon the free speech protections embedded in our laws rush to censor other points of view when given the chance.
UPDATE 9/05/07: Well, they've been caught red handed again.
First the good news: since I wrote this article, many of the original external links to the Twelve Tribes Wikipedia article have been restored. Among these was the link to the "twelvetribesteachings" site that archives a collection of hundreds of "teachings" of Spriggs as well as the TT's Intertribal News. Trouble is, these documents were not meant for outsiders' eyes and are a public relations liability for the Tribes. Here is to be found Spriggs' unvarnished eschatology and views on child discipline, blacks, gays and the role of women. No one takes credit for making available this mountain of material, although one might guess that this is the work of an ex-TTer. Interestingly, the mystery compiler/publisher says nothing negative about TT, letting the reader draw their own conclusions from the documents themselves. The TT will never officially claim these as authentic, but when I showed selections of a few to several TTers, none expressed any suspicion that they were less than genuine. It would be a monumental feat to forge, or even alter, all these hundreds of documents. The writing style for most of them is the same and it's clear to me these have a single author. Many are on points of doctrine and aren't particularly scandalous or noteworthy, while others will stand the hair on your head.
Someone (anonymously, leaving only an IP address) once again removed the link to this site and offered a pathetic rationale for doing so on the discussion page. The editor Seldom4 smartly traced the IP address to Parchment Press, a TT-owned business in Coxsakie, NY, chided this perpetrator, and restored the link to TwelveTribesTeachings site as before.
When will the Twelve Tribes organization learn the Twelve Tribes Wikipedia page doesn't belong to them?
http://iottc.blogspot.com/ |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1811
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:02 pm: |
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In Buddhism, the Buddha became enlightened under the Bodhi tree. Some ethno-botanists have proposed the iboga plant (Tabernanthe iboga) as the Tree of Knowledge. The bark of the root contains a dissociative substance, ibogaine, which has been traditionally used in Bwiti religious ceremony in Central Africa. Other hallucinogens, in particular the Fly agaric mushroom, have also been proposed as (fruits of) the Tree, by scholars such as in R. Gordon Wasso and Clark Heinrich.
Here's some interesting history on religious "wisdom" trees....
http://www.geocities.com/serpentofgnosis/Tree.html
and here...http://www.mythinglinks.org/ct~trees.html
And most sages used Entheogens
http://www.botany.hawaii.edu/faculty/wong/BOT135/Lect20b.htm
http://www.csp.org/chrestomathy/
How much time did Yahshua spend sitting around seeking knowledge and communion with the Ultimate Wisdom/God? Days? Months? Also did he not spend most of his time teaching rather then actual charity work? All of the sages throughout history, who by the way all taught the same truths, spent a lot of time meditating, fasting, praying and waiting for guidance, direction, knowledge and wisdom and most likely did that in the shade of some sort of tree cuz there wasnt many air conditioned public libraries around back then! 
I dont know what crawled up your skirt John but as FOAK said, there are different gifts and talents. We all cant be "enlightened ones" but if you eat some of these John, there still might be hope for you yet!
BTW The Wall Steet Journal said that shrooms are a natural cure for depression, addictions, anxiety and gets better results then ritalin! Wall Street Journal |
nabashalam
Senior Member
Username: nabashalam
Post Number: 1812
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 24.241.231.105
| | Posted on Wednesday, November 21, 2007 - 9:25 pm: |
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In a church by the face
He talks about the people going under
Only child know
A man decides after seventy years
That what he goes there for
Is to unlock the door
While those around him criticize and sleep
And through a fractal on that breaking wall
I see you my friend and touch your face again
Miracles will happen as we trip
But we're never gonna survive unless
We get a little crazy
No we're never gonna survive unless
We are a little
Cray cray crazy
Crazy are the people walking through my head
One of thems got a gun to shoot the other one
And yet together they were friends at school
Get it, get it, get it, yeah!
If all were there when we first took the pill
Then maybe then maybe then maybe then maybe
Miracles will happen as we speak
But we're never gonna survive unless
We get a little crazy
No we're never gonna survive unless
We are a little
Crazy
No no we'll never survive unless we get a little bit
A man decides to go along after seventy years
Oh darlin
In a sky full of people only some want to fly
Isn't that crazy
In a world full of people only some want to fly
Isn't that crazy
Crazy
In a heaven of people there's only some want to fly
Ain't that crazy
Oh babe Oh darlin'
In a world full of people there's only some want to fly
Isn't that crazy
Isn't that crazy Isn't that crazy Isn't that crazy
Ohh
But we're never gonna survive unless we get a little crazy crazy
No we're never gonna to survive unless we are a little crazy
But we're never gonna survive unless we get a little crazy crazy
No we're never gonna to survive unless we are a little crazy
No no never survive unless we get a little bit
And then you see things
The size of which you've never known before
They'll break it
Someday
Only child know
Them things
The size
Of which you've never known before
Someday |
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