| Author | Message | ||
     tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 898 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.14.198 |
Open Letter to Tanya Kekel Back in January, 2004...(give or take a week or two), I spoke to you privately about a matter concerning a particular Board member and his wife and their "care" of their child. I mentioned in this conversation how that they were showing movies to my daughters on their computer without my knowledge. You acted shocked...like you did not know that you could watch videos on a computer. I mentioned that this couple was basically plopping their child down in front of the computer a good part of the day. You seemed totally shocked. Now that I look back on the whole conversation, I'm not really sure at what you were shocked at? I believe you were putting me on. You knew very well at that time that movies could be played on the computer. And, when I said to you that I was annoyed because this "sister" didn't ask me if it was alright to show my daughters movies...what you didn't let on to was the fact that the same thing had occured in your own house when your son was showing my daughters The Three Stooges videos from his internet connection in his room. I found that out this morning. My youngest daughter and I were talking about something and somehow it led to the fact that she and my oldest daughter felt uncomfortable when your son began showing them Three Stooges videos on his computer. She then mentioned that you poked your head in to look in on them, and didn't say anything about it, so she figured that it must be o.k. with you to do such things. They never told me about that because it rocked their world. It didn't jive at all with what they heard preached in church by your daddy and your hubby. I wonder if you are still in the dark about movies being played on the computer. I have to assume you don't watch them...since to do such things was preached against. As was the "sinner-net" by your husband, in particular. And yet, here was your son...on the heels of the whole HOP debacle...and all the years of preaching against the internet...showing videos to my daughters on the internet. In the normal and free world...there is nothing at all wrong with watching certain videos on the computer or on the internet, but it would be good if you checked with the parents first to be sure it is alright. Just a little free advice. Tracy Pelfrey | ||
| still_in_pain Member Username: still_in_pain Post Number: 96 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 24.22.186.75 |
Heh! I was shown how to watch movies on the computer by none other then the current Pastor of NTCC in Graham! Sheeesh! Is it all worth it? I don't know how much more of this I can take. Is the theme song form MASH correct? Is suicide really painless? | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 899 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.13.11 |
When was that "Still"? What do you mean by "...was shown HOW to watch movies..."? And, don't even joke about suicide. | ||
| mark_g Advanced Member Username: mark_g Post Number: 534 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.201.122.179 |
Tracy... In your "Open Letter" to Tanya may I assume that you are not holding your breath for any kind of a response? | ||
| still_in_pain Member Username: still_in_pain Post Number: 97 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 24.22.186.75 |
Tracy, this was about 2001 or so. I was in an electronics store on South Hill with another Brother and I was looking at the computers (wishing I could have one) when Rev: Kinson tapped me on the shoulder. We knew eachother pretty well I guess he thought he was "safe". He said;"hey bro, watch this" and he took a DVD from the counter and put it in the DVD player of one of the display models and played a movie. He made the statement that he was "fascinated" by the digital image it produced. Before this I had never seen a DVD player on a computer! Thats I why I said; "He showed me how to watch movies" I figured if it was ok for him to do it was ok for me. (and I never joke about suicide) I think you know the deal. | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 900 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.13.11 |
It's just an Open Letter Mark...no more, no less. I do not expect a response. this will not be the only Open Letter that I post. If anyone else wants to post an Open Letter...please do so. It's a free country. Unleash your free mind on it. | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 901 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.13.11 |
Hey Still, even though this topic is off the "thread" topic, I want to be clear that I've learned in my life that it's better to say something to someone who makes a statement about suicide...than to just ignore and assume they are joking or making an off-hand remark. "I think you know the deal", {and, I'm glad to hear that you don't joke about it} Tracy | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1311 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 209.112.181.160 |
""I think you know the deal", {and, I'm glad to hear that you don't joke about it}" SIP, I'd rather hear you were joking; now we have to wonder. | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 902 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.13.11 |
I thought of that after I posted my response to "Still"...that it would be better if he was joking. Thanks for catching that Vic. | ||
| still_small_voice Senior Member Username: still_small_voice Post Number: 2571 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 207.200.116.135 |
Not for those you leave behind. Nor, dare I say, for the one on the other side. Cowards way out if you ask me. And as a person who has witnessed one, I must say, not a viable nor pleasant option. I prescribe to you one Jimmy Buffet album, one blender full of margaritas. Hit the beach with the woman of your choice and remember why life is good. Hang in there bro. If it gets too bad, seek professional help. Still_Small, no longer in pain. | ||
| still_in_pain Member Username: still_in_pain Post Number: 98 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 24.22.186.75 |
I'm very sorry for letting things show, please disreguard anything I've said about that subject. I am under professional help (it's no help at all) just more meds. I come here sometimes looking for a comforting word, I don't find any, for some reason I mostly get sarcasim or speach that's so high folutent (spelling) I don't get it. It's to Da*n serrious to just let go. I'm beginning to think that there is No help at all! Both sides are claimming to be right and all the while real souls are falling through the cracks "FOR REAL" of which I am one. Oh, well! "All you need to do is get saved!!" Right? Really, I am sorry. | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1312 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 206.174.63.132 |
Hope you didn't think I was being sarcastic. Although this probably isn't the place to expect a comforting word, if I knew which one to use, I would right now. | ||
| still_small_voice Senior Member Username: still_small_voice Post Number: 2572 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 207.200.116.135 |
Life contains more than two sides. If you have never paid attention to anything I have ever written, please consider this fact. If you have an interest in an altertantive viewpoint or a need to vent: warrencon7001@aol.com | ||
| ctyankee Intermediate Member Username: ctyankee Post Number: 177 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 69.244.208.162 |
"Life contains more than two sides" That is very true. Most of us here spent many, many years on one side of it-- and finally left. I like the side I'm on now a whole lot better. | ||
| still_small_voice Senior Member Username: still_small_voice Post Number: 2573 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 207.200.116.135 |
Well, the way I look at it. A circle has more than two sides. In fact, it has none. It is all really a matter of perspective. And growth. Nuff said. Black and white is the matter of fairy tales. Real life contains a thousand shades and the artists understand this. Darn, I'm tired. Off to bed. | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 906 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.13.11 |
ANOTHER: Open Letter to Tanya Kekel: Tanya, you were brought up in this controlling environment as an only child. Weren't you? That is, I have assumed all of these years that you were subjected to the same rules and regulations as everyone else. I remember you telling me that you went trick-or-treating as a youngster, but you never specified if this was a one-time event or a recurring event. I have to assume that if your family kept the same schedule as all of our families did...then you didn't have time for that "nonsense" anyway. Looking back though on our time in Graham and reflecting on things I witnessed go on, combined with those things which the other children and parents related, and those two things combined with your own testimony of events, I have to conclude that it is very likely that you did not know the rigors of the life your father has set up for "everyone else". Let me explain: If you are treating your son and if your father is treating his grandson the way that you were treated when you were younger...then you had quite the life. Maybe it's a matter of not wanting your son to experience any hardships you might have had as a youngster, but I'm not sure that you really did experience too many...not from your testimony and that of your mom. You went to schools which were "other-than-public-school". Loree DiFrancesco showed me pictures of all of you when you were younger. You seemed to be a young girl who was not lacking in any department. Very much unlike most of the children who have passed through their younger years in NTCC. There seems to have been a great gulf between what you were able to experience as a young girl and that of most of the other kids in NTCC. (And, there were not that many way back then anyway) The children then saw the difference between you and them...the same way that the children (a whole lot of them) have seen and continue to see the difference between your son's life and their life. Can I ask you to stop a moment and go back over the last 15 years and see the double standard which as been in place...to see it for yourself...will you do it? It is very obvious to all the fact that most rules have changed...progressively, as your son has gotten older...and so, in order for him to do certain things...the rules had to be bent and twisted a little. I say a little...because there are many things which the church members and the other preacher's kids don't even know about concerning the things your son has gotten to do during his youth. Your father has created an atmosphere which is not conducive to children enjoying their childhood...they don't have much of one...and those who were living during the "pre-Kekel's son" era...they were really robbed. And, they can never retrieve that lost time...and they KNOW who took it from them. Your son was able to have many children invited to his birthday parties, while the rest of us had to negotiate with your husband to get permission for 2 or 3. If you already had one or two other children in your household...then many times that meant only inviting one or two other children to the party. Compared to...how many did your son invite? I know the numbers and so do all the other young girls and boys who were, over the years invited to your estate for your son's parties. They know...and they could not understand why they could not experience the same for their own birthdays. Does that not bother your conscience at all? Or that of your husband? Or your father? Or is it just something which is considered to be insignificant? to be continued... | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 907 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.13.11 |
sit here now and I go back...and I see all the faces of the children with whom I came in contact...and you know that's quite a few. Did you see their faces as they looked on with "longing" at your son? Did you know that with each act of hypocrisy and double standard...you were setting up in their mind that God is some- how unequal. Unjust. That He also has a double standard...just like His Man On Earth...first up before His throne.(your father). These kids heard the rantings and ravings of your father and husband about the internet and movies and TV and DVD's, etc...and yet, they would come to your house and find the double-standard in play when they watched movies on your son's computer. How about when he showed his school yearbook to some young man...and his basketball photo...and yet, this young man was not allowed to play team sports. Why was that? These kids left your house...and stomped across their threshold of their home and demanded to know from their parents why they could not play organized sports...could not travel to Disney land and Lego Land and whatever other LAND they fancied they'd like to visit....like your son. They were told that your son HAD to play basketball...because it was required at his school. Well, let me tell you that through the years...many of our children were REQUIRED to do certain things...such as, but not limited to...wearing shorts in gym class, etc. Is a basketball uniform "Holiness garb"? Your son has known all the finest of what life has to offer any individual who is willing to work for it...and yet, the other children in NTCC are denied that same privilege...because their parents are not allowed to work hard to offer their children the same finery. How do you do it? That is all I want to know. How do you live with yourself in your materialistic world and not care...and not be concerned to what has happened to these young men and women who have passed through the doors which your daddy has built? How about the young men and women who have recently...(the past three years...for example..)...attended the Bible College..and been caught up in adultery and fornication? Don't you care? What are you doing about it? Good for you...you HAVE...and are able to give your son all the BEST. Where does this revenue come from? Tell your preachers ...so that their families can go and do likewise. to be continued...}}} | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 908 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.13.11 |
Although...there are actually many in NTCC who are preachers...who do not desire such things as wealth and power (read, Pastoral Authority). They have godliness and with it...they're content...and yet, they don't desire to be poor either...not now...and not later, when they are old and can't knock on doors anymore. In light of that...Where exactly is the line...and is there a line...where you pass from "being blessed"...to being covetous and materialistic...? Is it the person who makes $5 more than you or your father? Face it, will you...because everyone else knows that you and your father have a double standard for your son and for yourselves. Why was he exempt from the rules and why are you? Why didn't he just have 2 or 3 at his party and why have you been able to enjoy so many around your fellowship table through the years...something others could not. And, the weird thing was the fact that siblings and parents and children even had to get permission to fellowship. That is some weird stuff. You didn't have to do that. Why not? Why isn't what's good for the goose...good for the gander? Inquiring minds would like to know. All of this may seem like pure petty-ness to you...little things...insignificant in your eyes...but they all have major consequences. You are a group which practices the art of respecting the person of those who enter your doors. That is why you look down your nose at so many who come to visit. That is why they never come back. And, it begins in your own family...your son is above the rules the OTHER kids have to deal with. It's just not right and everyone knows it. And the sad part is that your son has no control over any of it, yet the children are disgusted with his life of privilege. And the adults are disgusted with yours too. They have come to find Jesus, and instead they find the High Priest bellowing out his manmade traditions and doctrines and laws and sending most to Hell for non-compliance. The children are taught about Jesus in Children's Church...they sing about Jesus...and yet, when they turned 10 in NTCC, there was nothing for them there in Graham. They had to come to the "Big" church and listen to the windbag preachers send everyone to Hell who were not like them. They sit in the pew and look around...and they wonder where Jesus is. These babes know. They are in tune with Who Jesus is and What He wants for them. They have to be taught otherwise...and NTCC...gives them a big dose of "otherwise." How many of the children are grown and wandering and lost and confused...all because you showed them everything except Christ's love and mercy and His utmost respect for each person as the invidual that they are. He does not dole out double standards...and yet in NTCC...they are drowning in double standards. I hope you get a clue. Soon. If not for the sake of the adults in your midst...at least give thought to the children. And, not just those who occupy a seat there now...but those who have occupied those seats over the last four decades. Sincerely, Tracy }}} | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1313 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.230.83.94 |
"Your father has created an atmosphere which is not conducive to children enjoying their childhood...they don't have much of one...and those who were living during the "pre-Kekel's son" era...they were really robbed. And, they can never retrieve that lost time...and they KNOW who took it from them." This is my main regret about involving myself with NTCC. Like yours, my kids suffered the worst kind of deprivation during their childhoods because of the silly practices and inane rules instituted by the org leaders. The only ambition not frowned upon was to go to the bible school and become a preacher or preacher's wife (although I suspect that will change should the scion decide he doesn't want to follow the loathsome path of his progenitors). Consideration for the welfare of my offspring was one of the primary factors in deciding our departure from the org, and I am gratified that they don't begrudge me their dismal youths. There is at least one positive consequence, in that they are very effectively inoculated against suffering abuse at the hands of frauds and charlatans. Their innocence is long gone when it comes to that. | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1314 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.230.83.94 |
"I remember you telling me that you went trick-or-treating as a youngster, but you never specified if this was a one-time event or a recurring event." The present double standard, as you observe, is longstanding. There was a day school for the children in St. Louis back in the day, but it was dissolved immediately following Tanya's graduation. I recently learned that she and Mike were permitted to go double dating with another couple during their courtship, a privilege forbidden the rest of us (we could only go out in public together under the watchful eye of R.W. Davis, and we were not permitted to keep any private company at all). Tanya Kekel surely can't relate to the kind of childhood experienced by the generic NTCC youngster, because she is and has been the beneficiary of a pervasive elitism imposed and enforced by her father, NTCC's founder and self-proclaimed apostle. | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 910 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.13.11 |
Like your children Vic, mine do not hold their dismal childhood against me and Brian, but unlike your children, my girls had it a lot better...because they were able to benefit in small ways from privilges bestowed upon the Kekel's son... Which isn't saying much. You know...like being able to go to the Puyallup Fair...(when there was time)and other such normal, everday events, but to those in NtCC...were frowned up. The only ambition allowed for young children is to want to go to Bible College...and the kids know it is what they are "supposed" to strive for, but that "striving" strives against what they really want...deep down inside...in that secret place...that place they cannot share with their mom or dad...but very frequently will divulge to another "captive" teen. | ||
| pelfdaddy Advanced Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 892 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.214.169.122 |
And yet loyalists refuse to address the problem of "what these kids say to each other". We now know just how much Davis is detested and feared by the younger set, but he will never absorb this information. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1737 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.224.20 |
Tracey, you really hit home. 'In Rama was there a voice heard, lamentation, and weeping, and great mourning, Rachel weeping for her children, and would not be comforted, because they are not.' (Matthew 2:8) And not so much as a single sincere apology, because to do so would unravel their whole program of dominion and profit. This is why I find it very unlikely there will ever be any repentance on the part of Davis. He MUST put up an iron wall against the evil-effects of his program and business. He MUST blame it on others for being failures. He MUST surround himself with like-minded 'winners' that want to succeed like him and tell him good things about himself and his selfless 'service' to God. He slowly but surely becomes more and more possessed by his own possessions of power and wealth gotten over the sheep by defrauding them of their own welfare. 'Who is weak, and I am not weak? who is offended, and I burn not?' (2 Cor 11:29) 'Seeing it is a righteous thing with God to recompense tribulation to them that trouble you; And to you who are troubled rest with us, when the Lord Jesus shall be revealed from heaven with his mighty angels...' (2 Thess 1:6-7) This and prayer is what helps me not to have taken matters into my own hands, because the wrath of man works not the righteousness of God. The Lord knows how to work His own righteousness, and His people can rest in the assurance that THAT day shall surely come: 'Rejoice over her, thou heaven, and ye holy apostles and prophets; for God hath avenged you on her.' (Rev 18:20) | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 927 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 76.211.7.35 |
OPEN LETTER TO THE DIFRANCESCOS: Dear John and Loree: I've wanted to tell you this for quite some time now, but was unable to heretofore: Remember the letter that I gave you both?...back in February of 2004? or so? Well,I talked with Tanya before writing the letter and she agreed with me on many of the points I presented. Some things she wasn't aware of because no one spent as much time with your family as did me and my girls. She spoke with her father, you know, RW Davis about it and in the church service which followed our conversation Davis was preaching and made reference to the fact that someone needed to say something to someone and confront them with the information. I had no idea that he was speaking to me regarding the situation I presented to his daughter. I found out later that night. Tanya asked me if I "got the message" which Davis was "preaching" to me. He was giving me the "green light" to tell you what was contained in that letter which I gave you. After the letter was written, I let the Kekels read it so that I would be sure that it got to the point, but I didn't want to cross any lines concerning your husband's "position" in God. (as I was taught to do). They agreed that it got to the point and so, I gave it to you. We were then called before Davis and Olson...after that night of Fellowship. You were given the impression all along that the Davis' and the Kekels knew nothing about what I wrote in the letter. That isn't the truth. I didn't let you know that to shield them from any ire that you might send their way. I know you spoke to Tanya about the letter, and I know you had no idea that she and her husband had knowledge of it beforehand...and you thought that your "pastor" didn't either. In not wanting to expose their involvement...I took the heat...in full measure. I've just always wanted to let you know that. Not that it will change anything, but I hope that it will let you see that there are probably other things which the Kekels and Davis' know and pretend not to. What a game. I'm so glad I'm not a player anymore. I pray for the day that you get out also. I pray that you and your family will really have some time together and that you will also have some involvement with other members of your extended family...which you have not in a long time and which you think is a godly thing to do, but it's not...it's about as ungodly as one can get. Is that really the love of God? Is that what you are showing that young lady? You have not, in recent years, showed her the love of God and the tenderness of God and the mercy of God...instead, you have shunned. And everyone in the church there sees it and knows it and scratches their head over the matter. I hope that your mom at least has "somewhat" to do with her. Can't you see how sick that is? I hope you do and that you will buck the man made doctrines that you so diligently cleave to...and go to her and love her. Tracy Sincerely, | ||
| pelfdaddy Advanced Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 925 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.128.58.34 |
Open letter to satan: Why did you create RW Davis? Why didn't you flush before he had time to crawl out? | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1787 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.61.175 |
Because Satan is not divided against Satan (Matthew 12:26): He creates Davis-types to do that to God's church to try and flush us ALL down with him(!) | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 932 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 69.208.7.147 |
To Anyone Who Rents From Davis: Please...BE SURE TO GET A RECEIPT "on the spot" WHEN YOU PAY YOUR RENT...no matter how many sideways glances you get from the office workers. AND...if they tell you "no"...what will you make of that? WITHOUT THAT RECEIPT...you have no proof that you paid that amount...especially since it is in cash. I'M TELLING YOU...I KNOW WHAT I'M TALKING ABOUT. You don't have money as it is...you work hard for it...and so if you are going to hand over your hard-earned cash like that...and not get a receipt...then you might as well open the windows in your car...drive down the road...and hold that cash in your hand...stick your hand out the window...and let it go...all of it. IT AMOUNTS TO THE SAME END RESULT IF YOU DO NOT GET A RECEIPT FOR YOUR MONEY. Even the worst slumlord will give you a receipt for your cash payments...at least all of "our" slumlords did. Tracy | ||
| mklo Advanced Member Username: mklo Post Number: 650 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.185.114.218 |
Do you mean to say that tenants of the Davis/Kekel estate are required to pay rent in cash? And they don't get a receipt as a matter of standard practice? | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 933 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 69.208.7.147 |
I'd like to address this Open Letter to the MAN, himself...R.W. Davis, founder of NTCC: To begin with, I hope you will excuse me if I don't stick a "sir" at the end of every sentence. I am "so over that". I'm sending you this letter today because I've been thinking about you. I have never heard anyone tell nor have I seen a testimony posted on your behalf where it is said of you that you are a man who is "hands on" when it comes to helping your fellow man. I've known a lot of Christians in my life and one thing you can say about them...they seem to be on the lookout to help people...any kind of "people"...not just those that Look like them. In wanting to mete out the benefit of the doubt...I also realize that Christians don't want a big deal to be made of the assistance they offer to others. We would rather keep it quiet. And so, many deeds are done and no one knows. Maybe that is the case with you. Maybe you really are like all the other Christians I've known in my life and you really were and still are..."hands on", but you've instructed those you've helped to remain quiet about it. I do have reason to doubt that though. It seems that for each person who comes to your defense and for each person who makes the claim that you are a "good Christian man"...the only thing they can say about you is that you've helped folks in the financial arena. I'm not sure if this is your special "calling" from the Lord. Maybe you are absolved from doing any kind of physical..."hands-on" help. When Jesus comes to live in a person...He's in there. He sees the needs of those around Him. His heart becomes overwhelmed with compassion and mercy and He just HAS to help. It comes in so many different forms...maybe just sitting with a family through the night while a loved one is in the ICU or running errands for them, or mowing the lawn of a single mom who cannot get around to it because she is raising a family and working and it's just too much for her. Maybe it comes in the form of driving someone who is without their vehicle to work and back. There are so many different scenarios and possibilities...I could never give all the examples of ways that Christians help their fellow man. to be continued... | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 934 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 69.208.7.147 |
To answer your question Mick: YES! that is what I mean. I really hope that the public exposure of this practice has changed it. | ||
| tracy_pelfrey Advanced Member Username: tracy_pelfrey Post Number: 935 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 69.208.7.147 |
continuation of Open Letter to R.W. Davis: All most of us have seen of you is a man who is given to EXCESS, but not in a good way. MATTHEW 23:25 says..."WOE UNTO YOU, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! (of the which class of people you are one, sir) for ye make clean the outside of the cup and of the platter, but WITHIN they are full of EXTORTION AND EXCESS." EXCESS...in manmade doctrines, in laying burdens on the Lord's heritage, in breaking up marriages and families, in food and drink and dress and housing, in behaving as some sort of Catholic Priest who demands all sorts of perks and obescience and respect and obedience in lieu of the Word of God and Jesus from your devotees. EXTORTION...you've taken the precious Word of God...and twisted it and mangled it...until it is unrecognizable...just as Jesus was unrecognizable on the cross from the mangling and beatings of those hired by the priests to do so...and you've used it as a weapon to threaten people into giving to you and your pyramid scheme...disguised as a "Work of God"...a church. You fancy yourself to be clean. You've made the outside of the cup and platter clean (and I take issue with that also...because I don't think you are clean on the outside either)...BUT WITHIN YOU ARE FULL OF EXTORTION AND EXCESS. I don't see the EXCESS in your life in the form of being a brother to your fellow man. Jesus counted all men worthy of Himself, which He proved by dying that despicable death for us, and you have the nerve to stand on your gilded platform in Graham as Judge of the Earth. Make clean the inside...and your life will show it forth in your day-to-day dealings with your fellow man. You will see them as valuable and as possessing great worth...just as Jesus does and you will no longer honk the horn of your vehicle to make your subjects run out to you as some sort of earthly King holding court in their driveway...You'll get out and humbly walk to their door and ring the bell.}}} | ||
| seethruu New member Username: seethruu Post Number: 1 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 75.170.147.224 |
brian i have to refute your attempt at pastor for saying has he helped anyone. i and my family are one who he helped over the years, in money, in material things, in my spiritual development and my wife. i don't understand all your rantings, i never did when i worked with you. you were different (that's you). i for one am sick of all this junk you been putting out. but let me say that's your opinion. you have a right to have it. but in no way do i believe most of the trash on here. i stay here because i blessed and i am not brain washed. i don't want to fight you about it, i have not seen anything that you and others post here, and i been around 22 years. i find some of the posts on here quite comical at times, knowing who's posting and knowing them, they have had a full frontal lambotamy, and there stitches are still showing. so once again pastor has helped me out over the years, oh by the way, he did pay my first months rent when i got married, 19 years ago. depending on what you post. i may respond. } | ||
| weezer Junior Member Username: weezer Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.26.21.9 |
he may have helped you, but others he has not helped. so you can't assume he has done the same with everyone because he did you a certain way | ||
| weezer Junior Member Username: weezer Post Number: 34 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.26.21.9 |
he may have helped you, but others he has not helped. so you can't assume he has done the same with everyone because he did you a certain way | ||
| pelfdaddy Senior Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 1025 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.128.81.63 |
seethruu, Each sentence that you write contains errors that make it difficult to tell exactly what you are talking about, but I think the larger point is this: RW Davis has been telling people for years that people who leave his organization immediately begin to tell lies about him. If I told you, "Don't talk to people who disagree with me, and who no longer wish to attend my church, because they are all liars, who tell terrible lies about me", what would you think? What if you then discovered that these people number in the hundreds, that many of them do not know each other, but that their stories agree in minute detail? If it were anyone else, you might think there was something to be said for the idea that I might not be the Great Guy I have tried to depict. But in the case of RW Davis, he is immune from criticism because HE has TOLD you that HE is a Man of God. I used to say (as you now say) that I had never seen any of these things. It was a lie on my part. I first deceived myself until I thought it was all true, then told others this twisted truth. You are being equally self-deceptive. If I told you that God had led you to my church, that there was therefore no justification for your leaving, that you were required to give me ten percent of your gross income and then some, that you must take care of the 'man of God' so that I could always 'go first class', that you were nothing without my ministry, that you would be a failure if it were not for me, that you are a loser if you do not do what I tell you, that you have failed God if you do not achieve certain goals that I set in front of you, that you cannot attend secular college and fulfill God's will, that your efforts to better yourself by working are the devil's attempts to keep you out of church, that you must attend conferences twice annually, and then...I handed you threee hundred bucks to cover a deposit on an apartment...and THEN...I continued to treat you as if I had done you a lifetime of favors for which you should be grateful and eternally loyal...would you defend me against my critics with your last breath? Or would you think I was a manipulator? | ||
| tracypelfrey Junior Member Username: tracypelfrey Post Number: 47 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 76.211.3.47 |
To Mr. SeeThru: I posted the above Open Letters, not my husband. Since you posted to this thread, I am making the assumption that you were responding to this thread. And, P.S: Do you only believe things you see with your own eyes? I doubt that you have been around as long as you say. If you really have been...then you know that most of us posting here on Factnet are not lying. We are confirming. We are exposing. We have more than enough witnesses to these events and just because you claim to be blind to it all...doesn't invalidate them. I have to also believe that you are writing in the illiterate fashion that you are so as to disguise who you are. At least, I truly hope that is the case. Thanks, Tracy | ||
| seethruu New member Username: seethruu Post Number: 2 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 75.170.147.224 |
brian and tracy i have known both of you since you came to bible school, and went to pittsburgh, and knights insulation, with allen, i was there when your husband made that wonder statement in class to pastor about the teaching he wanted to do. i know about all if not most of the all night workings of insulation untill the we hours of the morning. i know quite about you both. i can validate my 22 years, like i said i'm not going to fight you, you have a right to it, but as I SAID FOR MYSELF, I HAVE NOT SEEN IT. as far as the witnesses go that's there story, not mine. so once again, pastor davis has helped me and my family greatly, also my 2 kids. tracy and brian i love you guys, not just because the bible tells me, but because its in my heart. not saying you don't love me who ever i may be. that's not opinion but truth. i guess it all comes down we agree to disagree, my opinion is not yours and yours in not mine. thanks for the keyboard fellowship, i have enjoyed typing to you, hope to do so again, thanks seethruu | ||
| seethruu New member Username: seethruu Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2006 Posted From: 75.170.147.224 |
brian, i went back and read your post throughly. i for one have not said that since you left the organization tells lies, and once again i have not heard pastor say such. on loyality to pastor, i discussed this with a brother the other night, a fellow minister, my loyality to God comes first, also my love for God, and because of this my loyality to the organization grows with it. you and me are on 2 different wave lengths for which we are both thankful. you not apart and i apart of it. can't we do something more constructive and type something good, like i said i don't want to fight. so i'll start, preached any good sermons lately. i am reading alot but can always use more, any good illustrations. send it my way, i'll be typing at ya. | ||
| ntcctruth Junior Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 35 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
brian i have to refute your attempt at pastor for saying has he helped anyone. i and my family are one who he helped over the years, in money, in material things, in my spiritual development and my wife. i don't understand all your rantings, i never did when i worked with you. you were different (that's you). i for one am sick of all this junk you been putting out. but let me say that's your opinion. you have a right to have it. but in no way do i believe most of the trash on here. i stay here because i blessed and i am not brain washed. i don't want to fight you about it, i have not seen anything that you and others post here, and i been around 22 years. i find some of the posts on here quite comical at times, knowing who's posting and knowing them, they have had a full frontal lambotamy, and there stitches are still showing. so once again pastor has helped me out over the years, oh by the way, he did pay my first months rent when i got married, 19 years ago. depending on what you post. i may respond. } ---------------------------------- Spoken like a true Davisite...a true Kekelite! "I haven't seen any evidence..." Oh yeah? All the poverty. So many families broken up. So many wives/children mistreated because the husband thinks they're not perfect enough to make him look like a leader? How about manipulation? How about moving preachers around like chess pieces from pulpit to pulpit on a yearly basis without regard to their well-being? How about all of those stupid rules that used to be preached like gospel about kids with video games or dvd movies that caused all of those parents to deny their children, only to find that those "rules" have suddenly changed after Grant came of some age...without so much as an apology or admission of wrong/guilt? How about all of the wife swapping? How about all of the ostracizing of brethren who have ever questioned the "man of Gaaaaaaaaawwwwduh?" Haven't seen? Haven't heard? You must either be very naive or you're living in lala land. Sounds like Cain in Genesis 4:9. We're supposed to rejoice that Pastor paid a month's rent for you 19 years ago? Yippeee! Whooppee! What about all the money he's amassed over the years from the backs of the people...only to have dominion over God's heritage? I'm so sorry, but you might want to let people drive you around, because you don't seem to be aware of your surroundings. There are hundreds of people who attest to the same things that seem to have gone unnoticed by you. Marc Perez | ||
| christianliberty New member Username: christianliberty Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2008 Posted From: 69.6.160.98 |
Tracey, although I don't agree with some things you say, I must admit that your open letters to Tanya Kekel were quite moving!! Moving because I've had to raise my children in the middle of all this junk! I have recently resigned from NTCC & one of my biggest problems is the double standards!! I too have children & so deeply regret that I didn't leave earlier for their sakes. In regard to the Kekel's has anyone also considered the fact that Grant got to take swimming lessons? Now maybe he wore all of his clothes & maybe it wasn't in a co-ed enviornment, I don't know...but this one thing I do know, he did take them for a long time! Of course I have no problem with swimming lessons for a child, but it is just another example of hypocrisy & double standards from ntcc leadership. Though I adhered to many ntcc policies, when it came to raising my children, I "usually" drew the line. There are things I would do differently of course, but we did go (and still do) to athletic games, motocross, rodeos, monster truck bashes, amusement parks, etc...even while pastoring in ntcc! But I was always looking over my shoulder as if an NTCC was going to appear & catch me in my "sin" so called! It is so good to no longer live in fear &/or under the conscience of someone else! Has anyone in ntcc leadership ever read Romans 14? | ||
| nbrown New member Username: nbrown Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.34.194.135 |
I personally found davis' statement that if you want your child to swim, go buy a pool and put it in your back yard insulting. It was a double slam. Not only were most of the Graham attendees apt dwellers, but most of us at the time were broke/in debt. I was sick of my oldest son only getting to do normal fun childhood things when he visited his ("sinner") dad who lived in another state. I started taking him to the ymca at the end of our attendence there and he has been taking swimming lessons ever since. He loves it! If everyone stood up and decided their child deserved to experience everything Grant got to, there would be no ntcc. Supreme hypocrisy. I'm still laughing about the fake nails thing. Just a few years ago in Graham, kekel spent many a soul winner's meetings blasting "eagles claws" and especially the ones that had a french manicure. | ||
| nbrown New member Username: nbrown Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2006 Posted From: 71.34.194.135 |
It's the insinuation that if you're rich enough, you can afford to have important life experiences the "correct holiness" way which is absolute utter absurdity. | ||
| victorjohanson Junior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 66.223.233.130 |
"It's the insinuation that if you're rich enough, you can afford to have important life experiences the "correct holiness" way which is absolute utter absurdity." From Wikipedia: "[Leona Helmsley] was a flamboyant personality and had a reputation for tyrannical behavior that earned her the nickname "Queen of Mean." The image of Helmsley was sealed when a former housekeeper testified that she heard Helmsley say: "We don't pay taxes. Only the little people pay taxes." " This reminds me of the attitude of the NTCC leadership toward their nitpicking rules. Only the "little people" need obey them. And they have the audacity to claim there are "no big Is and little Us" among them. Give us a break. | ||
| pelfdaddy Senior Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 1028 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.128.122.183 |
c-liberty, I think I know who you are, though I am not usually good at figuring those things out. Probably late to the party on this, too... You just did something that is very common, which was to disclaim by telling Tracy that you do not agree with "some" of the things she says. I do not wish to criticize you for this--only to analyze. The key to this is your acknowledgement of having left "recently". When a person is driving on a mountain road, they cannot tell the shape of the mountain because of the surrounding trees and landscape. At the risk of overusing the analogy, I will only say that such a person will naturally "disagree" with a description of the mountain provided by someone else far away. It is almost universal among those who leave this cult to undergo a startling change of perspective as objectivity increases, and that this happens over time as our distance from--and attachment to--the organization grow inversely. Sorry about the lecture. We now return you to our regular de-programming... | ||
| tracypelfrey Junior Member Username: tracypelfrey Post Number: 48 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 76.211.1.222 |
"This reminds me of the attitude of the NTCC leadership toward their nitpicking rules. Only the "little people" need obey them. And they have the audacity to claim there are "no big Is and little Us" among them. Give us a break." Hey Vic, to add to this point you made I'd like to share an anecdote: While in Graham...long after graduating (when Brian was teaching in the School)...I was staying home with my girls during 'Pastor's classes'. Most of them I had already taken or sat through (even though you were supposed to just jump at the chance of being in one of Pastor's classes...oh...goodie, goodie!...whether you heard the same stuff over and over and over and over...again!...I couldn't handle it.)...and really, after a certain point...his classes were less about God and more about running a Business "for" God. He had the students reading John Maxwell Leadership books, and others of similar nature...and writing reports on them. Like many of the mothers who had graduated already, I stayed home with my girls. It was really one of the only times I could spend with them. It was wonderful. And, we usually always invited a friend over. (not more than one...couldn't have that...unless you were babysitting for Pastor's class...and then you had to commit to a house full of kids for a semester...I had enough of 8 kids in my house every night during Bible School to last me a lifetime. those that know me know I love the kids...but for crying out loud...not EVERY SINGLE NIGHT...and I wasn't living in a home, mind you, but an apartment) One night, Tanya Kekel (who, by the way, stayed home with her son, as did Loree DiFrancesco...as did Jung Sun Butler...as did...many others)...said something to me about why I wasn't attending Pastor's classes. She must have known what I was thinking, because she followed it up with her excuse as to why she wasn't attending the classes: "I was in the classes for so many years." In other words, she didn't NEED the classes. That was what she said to me. She didn't need the classes. Why then did G. Olson, and V. Davis and all the other WOMEN OF GOD attend? Tanya could stay home with her child, but I wasn't supposed to be afforded the same "luxury" (if you will?). "That dog don't hunt" | ||
| tracypelfrey Junior Member Username: tracypelfrey Post Number: 49 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 76.211.1.222 |
To Christian Liberty, One of the very nice things about being out...is that we do not have to agree with everything someone else says, but we can say it without fear of reprisal. Hopefully it's just the "way" I say things which disturb you and not what I've posted...in other words, the content. I've not related anything that I've not experienced myself or had backed up by the multitude witnesses of others. Unike my husband, I don't know your identity, but whereas I used to wonder about who folks are...sometimes, it's better not to know. The whole "ignorance is bliss" thing can be kind of nice. But, if you have children who had to go through life as children of a preacher or as a church member...then we are totally simpatico. I have to say that it is the broken families and messed up children which keep me on this forum...if not posting daily...reading as often as I am able. If I can play one small part in encouraging someone to open their eyes to what is plainly in front of them...then...it's worth any grief i may catch from others in the process. thanks for your candor. Tracy | ||
| tracypelfrey Member Username: tracypelfrey Post Number: 64 Registered: 12-2007 Posted From: 76.211.1.87 |
This is an Open Letter to ALL of the preachers in NTCC: Dear Reverend Sirs: This letter is really directed at those of you who currently...or who have previously...been the host pastor (city)for a monthly Fellowship Meeting. DOES IT NOW, OR DID IT AT ANY TIME DISTURB YOU THAT YOU HAD TO SEND ALL OF THE OFFERING MONEY OFF TO GRAHAM WHICH WAS TAKEN UP DURING THE FELLOWSHIP MEETING? Wouldn't you have liked to have been allowed to keep back some to pay for the costly utilities or the rent on a room or any other such expense which you had to incur for the Fellowship Meeting to be "pulled off"? Answer honestly now. You don't have to post your answer. I hope that it is obvious that I am not posting open letters because I expect a response online. I don't. I want to pose the question. I want you to think about it honestly...and when you do that...then a crack of light will come in...and you won't be able to stand the darkness any longer. Sincerely, Tracy Pelfrey |
