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Message |
    
pilgrim
Advanced Member
Username: pilgrim
Post Number: 631
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 195.93.21.42
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 8:34 am: | 
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I have recently come across people who said that God gave us intelligence and we are not stupid and therefore if we allow a cult to abuse us it is our own fault.
What would you say to those people? |
ginger1
Senior Member
Username: ginger1
Post Number: 2147
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 75.36.208.169
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 10:24 am: |
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Jesus said that the VERY ELECT will be deceived.
Second question is that Is Jesus stupid knowing full well that Judas is stealing from Him and knowing full well that Judas will betray Him , since God the Father gave Jesus intelligence and full discernment.
So is it Jesus fault that he allow Judas to steal and betray Him ? |
ginger1
Senior Member
Username: ginger1
Post Number: 2148
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 75.36.208.169
| | Posted on Thursday, October 25, 2007 - 10:34 am: |
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If this person is a christian then I would say he/she severely lack knowledge of scripture and is seriously deprived of relationship with God. With full of Spiritual Pride.
This is why the bible talks about the Great Deceiver which is Satan. Jesus would not be warning people in regards to the Pharisees. The Holy Spirit also gave the gifts of discernment. If we can used intelligence all the time , then we do not need the Holy Spirit or God. Then there is also no need to pray . Since you can get by in life without being cheated and deceived since you are intelligent enough to know everything.
If the person is an unbeliever then would say he/she is on the borderline of an atheist. Which explains his/her thought process. |
pilgrim
Advanced Member
Username: pilgrim
Post Number: 632
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 195.93.21.42
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 1:11 pm: |
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Ginger,
You wrote "If this person is a christian then I would say he/she severely lack knowledge of scripture and is seriously deprived of relationship with God. With full of Spiritual Pride."
These people are ex cult members and leaders. I think that they want to create a culture where the victim blames themselves and not just the cult. Is that right? |
robert_unknown
Senior Member
Username: robert_unknown
Post Number: 1413
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 212.186.14.119
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 1:57 pm: |
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pilgrim, if Christians say something like this to others, its a proof that they still are victims of abuse themselves.
I mean no one enters a cult, because the group is honest to them. the cult doesnt say "we are a destructive cult, we will brainwash and abuse you and rip you of your money."
cults work always over the idealism and/or guilt/ shame of a person. they will always make a person VOLUNTERLE enter, stay in and work for the group. by rewarding the victim with "love", titles, etc...
so no one enters a cult out of the blue. of course people who leave cults often understand later that they have ignored all their warning signs during their time in the cult.
but the cult leaders and the peer preasure and the momentum in the cult (between the members) draws a person more and more into it.
so - if Christians say so, they dont understand the nature of cults, and propaly are themselves in danegr or even part of a cultic group. |
mcmstaff78
Senior Member
Username: mcmstaff78
Post Number: 1833
Registered: 7-2006
Posted From: 167.193.134.61
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 3:20 pm: |
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The stupidity, naivete, or credulity of people (especially, IMO, those between 15 and 25) does not excuse the manipulative, bullying and abusive tactics of these cults. It is like blaming the person who leaves his windows open for the thief coming in and stealing. Sure it was stupid, but it is still the thief who is criminally responsible.
Blaming the victim is classic abuse tactics. Anyone else who engages in it simply enables the abusers. |
ginger1
Senior Member
Username: ginger1
Post Number: 2150
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 75.36.208.169
| | Posted on Friday, October 26, 2007 - 7:58 pm: |
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Pilgrim , there are people who are ex cult members think that way. Example Rice Brookes and Phil Bonasso all blame Bob Weiner of the control and spiritual abuse and yet, these two are practicing it themselves.
its a cycle of abuse that never end. Another example is that churches who left EN are practicing the same legalism that EN/VCF teaches. Just because they left , it does not mean they are not doing it also.
And we all know how EN/VCF thinks. They do have a serious depravation of relationship with God. They do things as if God does not exist. And full of spiritual pride. These ex cult members have not shaken off the legalistic mentality.
Thats why we hear women who were abused by their spouses will jump into another relationship with another abuser. And the abused will often abuse others. Its a cycle.
The only way to get out of it is by God's grace and Renewing of mind. And these are not easy to do.
I have met so many people personally who left EN and VCF were very legalistic. And I had to minister to them till this day to get them delivered from that mentality.
And we had a lot of breakthrough , then they realizes that nothing in EN or VCF teaches are from God.
People has to go through serious deprogramming. |
robert_unknown
Senior Member
Username: robert_unknown
Post Number: 1414
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 212.186.14.119
| | Posted on Saturday, October 27, 2007 - 10:25 am: |
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Example Rice Brookes and Phil Bonasso all blame Bob Weiner of the control and spiritual abuse and yet, these two are practicing it themselves.
i said it already often, and i will say it again:
if someone like Brooks and Nasso cannot SIT and LISTEN to other people (by just beeing part of a church), but instead run and start their own "church" something certainly is wrong. they created MSI, because they believed that they are "too good" to be part of something else. they thought that they understood the mechanisms of what made Maranatha a cult, and they also thought that they will make it better.
if they REALLY had understood what went wrong, and if they really would have changed their own personal attitudes, they would have looked for another church, and sit their and listen.
but no - they are called and anointed and better then the others...
therefore we see the same cultic structures again and again.
pride was the first sin and its pride that causes senseless damage between people. |