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     bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1699 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.35.39 |
This is in response to the current Factnet Fad (among some) of downplaying the more 'extreme' outcries against Davis, Denis, and other committed Leaders in their Organizations. If a person is indeed an antichrist according to the Scriptures, then standing in defense of them is NOT standing in defense of the gospel of Jesus Christ, Who's express purpose is to fight against such evil-workers with the Sword of His mouth (Rev 2:16). If this thread does make it's case: 1) What an antichrist is by Biblical definition. 2) Davis, Denis, et al qualify. Then any future reconciliation between Davis and the departed will be dependent entirely upon THEIR full repentance and OUR fully forgiving them. It will Not include Factnetters apologizing in a spirit of 'bi-partisanship'. (If any wish to remain with or return to Davis without his repentance, that is of course their right, and they have been properly warned...(Acts 20:29-31)) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1700 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.35.39 |
'The beast that thou sawest was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.' (Rev 17:8) An antichrist is a false minister of the gospel, who at one time was an accepted believer of God, but in the pursuit of ministerial success, they go beyond the common errors that are burned at the judgment seat of Christ to the point of defiling God's temple (1 Cor 3:9-17) and thus destroying the work of God, both in others and in themselves. He that was saved, and is not saved any longer, and yet is a leader over others in the church of God. They are the enemy from within and on top! Who present the faces of ministers but have the hearts of beasts. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1701 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.35.39 |
'And the Pharisees also, who were covetous, heard all these things: and they derided (Jesus).' 'But he that is an hireling, and not the shepherd, whose own the sheep are not, seeth the wolf coming, and leaveth the sheep, and fleeth: and the wolf catcheth them, and scattereth the sheep.' (John 10:12) 'For I know this, that after my departing shall grievous wolves enter in among you, not sparing the flock.' (Acts 20:29) Antichrists are good believers that become evil ministers, because their desire for souls became a lust for success and the filthy lucre thereby. Antichrists are against Christ, because they work against the good growth of Christians by adding their grievous burdens of false doctrines and man-made programs that gain their success in the ministry. 'Behold, I send you forth as sheep in the midst of wolves: be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves.' (Matthew 10:16) Antichrists are not ministers sent by Jesus, but rather are sent by themselves in opposition to God's calling, conducting themselves as covetous wolves in the midst of affectionate sheep, using the serpent's wisdom to profit from doves by harmful demands. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1702 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.35.39 |
' Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time. They went out from us, but they were not of us; for if they had been of us, they would no doubt have continued with us: but they went out, that they might be made manifest that they were not all of us.' (1 John 2:18-19) Antichrists are believers who have gone out from among the rest of the body and the apostles' doctrine in order to establish their own organization of rules and programs that are contrary to the edifying ministry of the saints. They have rejected the apostolic rule for Christian ministry, because there was not enough profit in it! 'These things have I written unto you concerning them that seduce you. But the anointing which ye have received of him abideth in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teacheth you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him.' (1 John 2:26-27) Antichrists are separatists that seduce other believers into their ministries by false claims of superior, better, holier anointings over the rest. They are the 'best of the best' Leaders in the Christian religion that love to exercise their power over others through super-spiritual and heavy-handed anointings that they lay on others as lords of their own ministerial heritage they claim God has given to them. They are the most-anointed Leaders on earth! Who supernaturally deserve all the rule over others they've got, whether Biblically authorized or not. In separating themselves from the rest of the body, they make themselves no longer of the Head! Thinking themselves special, they make themselves unacceptable... | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1703 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.185.3 |
'And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you. For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many... Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not. For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.' (Matthew 24:3,23-24) Antichrists are false-christs who raise themselves up as real Leaders for other Christians to follow and point to their own churches as true places for Christians to serve in. They seductively mix themselves and their special church programs into their preaching of the right gospel message. They call upon the believers to follow their own selves as christs, rather than inspire others to follow them as they are of Christ. (1 Cor 11:1) Antichrists destructively work in the ministry by the false Leadership of the devil, that he might take captive the believers and 'retranslate' them back into the kingdom of darkness from that of God's dear Son. Such false leaders and christs with unscriptural doctrines and programs lure the simple into foolishly moving at the devil's will rather than God's by the deception of false visions and callings of Christian living and service. (John 16:1-3)(2 Tim 2:26) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1704 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.185.3 |
'For such are false apostles, deceitful workers, transforming themselves into the apostles of Christ...' (2 Cor 11:13) Antichrsts transform themselves into false apostles by preaching commandments of their own as apostles over their own churches. (Acts 1:2)(2 Peter 3:2) '...And no marvel; for Satan himself is transformed into an angel of light...' (11:14) They are themselves first decieved into thinking themselves to be angels of true light for all their true church followers to look to first for all their instruction of righteousness and works of faith and service. '...Therefore it is no great thing if his ministers also be transformed as the ministers of righteousness; whose end shall be according to their works.' (11:15) They are great and wise in their own eyes as the apostles of God set first in their churches, because they were there first with their own righteousness and church-building programs, after foolishly departing in their own minds from the holy apostles' doctrine and Biblical manner of service to the saints. (Acts 2:42,6:4)(1 Cor 3:18-21,12:28) Antichrists are self-made apostles who add to the Scriptures written by God's apostles their own commandments of righteousness, personal holiness standards, and works of God's service for all their churches to do, that they might be accepted of their great and holiness Leaders as special members of God's body above the rest. The devil provides ministers that take away from the Scriptures for sinners who desire Christian religion, but he particularly makes special apostles that add to the Scriptures for believers who desire the power of God. The former sears the conscience of unbelievers in unrighteousness, but the latter overburdens the souls of the elect with self-righteousness and heavy labor! (Dan 7:25)(Mark 13:22)(Luke 21:33)(2 Tim 3:5)(1 John 5:3) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1705 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.185.3 |
So far, Antichrists are: 1) Once-saved beasts (beastly Christian ministers) 2) Coveteous and grievious wolves 3) Seducing separatists 4) false and decieving christs 5) false and self-made apostles that first add to the Scriptures (Note: For every office and characteristic of Jesus Christ, the devil makes another... IN the church!) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1714 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.197.168.147 |
6) Conquerors 'And I saw, and behold a white horse: and he that sat on him had a bow; and a crown was given unto him: and he went forth conquering, and to conquer.' (Rev 6:2) Antichrists are more than just overcomers, they are conquerors. Christians remain just overcomers, which makes them more than conquerors! (Rom 8:37) Antichrists are conquerors of other men's souls for prfoit's sake rather than just witnesses of Christ to other souls for Jesus' sake. Antichrists are once-good Christians who have separated themselves from the love of God AND of souls in Christ Jesus to become more than just good Christian examples, but rather have crowned themselves THE Leading Example for all others to follow. They no longer just walk in white with Jesus as the rest of the sheep, but rather they have a far greater and more whited walk than even Jesus commands! Antichrists no longer just overcome the world of sin and all flesh even as Jesus in His righteousness and true holiness, but they conquer all things lawful and unlawful alike even as super-Christs in their own self-righteousness and holier holiness! These great conquerors ride into town on their whited horses to save the day of believers and unbelievers alike, who never knew they needed it! They begin in great victory more than others, but the end of their all-conquering faith is bloody sacrifice (6:4), ministerial success (6:5), and utter self-destruction (6:8). | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1716 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.216.0.38 |
Antichrists sit on their whited seats set upon their pulpits of power shooting their personal arrows to conquer the faith, minds, and wills of them that hear to transform them from Jesus' followers to that of their own selves. (2 Thess 2:3-4) Conquerors, no longer overcomers. Recruiters, no longer witnesses. Shooters, no longer speakers. Dominators, no longer helpers. | ||
| imaskingwhy New member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
My Brother Derrick, I do appreciate the effort you put into your posts, however, are you sure you are applying all that scripture properly to RWD? I have seen compeling scriptural arguements for many views including why tongues are not for today to just name one. If you keep throwing enough scripture at something it's bound to sound right sooner or later. Thus we have all these denominations and churches throught the world, 10's of thousands of them. And most of them throwing scriptures at thier neighbor condeming them to the depths of hell. Wars are even fought in the name of religion, all along people continue to believe that they are the ones who have the proper understanding of scripture and everyone else is wrong. Oh, that's right, that's why we left NTCC. Be careful you do not become like those you left. Bryan David Hill (Message edited by imaskingwhy on October 26, 2007) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1724 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.197.62.202 |
Pushing people to get more into my church? (Conquerors) Promoting my Organization of churches as the right one with the right message? (Separatists) Preaching my own commandments for my churches, because I'm their Leader that was there first? (Transformed Apostles) Claiming an anointing more than other believers that they don't have but need in order to do God's work in my organization? (False Christs) Preaching against the failures of others for not succeeding in my organizational business? (Whited Shooters) My answer to them who examine me is this: Since I avoided Leadership positions with such 'Leaders' to avoid doing such things to others, when I was weakest in the affairs of this life, why then would I go on to do such things and become like those I left, when I am stronger in such affairs?? | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1725 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.197.62.202 |
Now, is this not a curious thing? I haven't yet even finished describing an antichrist according to the Scriptures, without yet beginning to apply them to certain people's words and deeds, and someone is already trying to defend Davis as not being THAT bad! Why? What in the above posts would EVER remind anyone of or otherwise point anyone to Davis and his miserable (I mean ministerial) words, deeds, and manners?? I had rather wondered if some real loyalst would come on board and denounce me for talking bad about Davis before ever even getting to him. But, it looks as if Davis (an antichrist?) has more than his usual defenders. if Davis is indeed an antichrist (and there are MANY who have gone out into the world...), would defending him be called being a devil's advocate? or an antichrist's sympathist? (Note: The 'if' is so small, because it doesn't take a very big IF at all!) Pelf's Poet Pal | ||
| imaskingwhy New member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
Bro. Derrick, I have read more than what you have posted in this thread to know who you are refering to. It is not so much RWD that I am "defending" but rather a humility when it comes to the application of God's Word and the acertaining of spiritual motives. All leaders have (ranging from minor to major) fallabilities. However to claim to have been in a self proclaiming elitist organization, leave that organization, and then claim that everything about where you came from is evil, then spend your time and energy touting it, resembles them (ntcc). Is this not in some wierd way a reflection of the prevailing attitude within NTCC? The one major thing I did learn by leaving NTCC is that you can't be to dogmatic concerning peoples motives, which is one reason I say to you "I could be wrong, all of your efforts to brand RWD as evil personified may be justified", however only God knows this. All of God's vessels are imperfect. There are so many scriptures in the Word of God that I have come to believe that a person can pretty much build any arguement he or she desires to, which leaves me somewhat skeptical when words appear haughty and judgments are rendered without tears. You said "why then would I go on to do such things and become like those I left, when I am stronger in such affairs"? May I answer your question with a question? Would a person with your dogmatic attitude and zealous application of scripture profit NTCC in it's elitist stand? if so, then has not the message changed but not the nausea associated with the messenger? In other words, you would make a good ntcc er all you would have to do is have a different view of who the enemy is. Your brother in Christ. Bryan David Hill PS. Will you also desire fire from heaven to fall upon me? Don't forget to check "WHAT SPIRIT YE ARE OF" before the scriptures start flying. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1758 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.45.112 |
No tears? Who says? Pray for Fire from heaven? When have I? Is this not also strange? On this thread I have brought forth nothing but Scriptures and their interpretation, and you are afraid for resisting the power? Search your own heart... 1) If there are any Scriptures and their meaning you disagree with. Show me. 2) If you disagree with any applications to peoples' ministering as anti-chrisian. Show me. Otherwise, your symnpathies are understood (By me), but misplaced (On Davis). Believe me brother. I understand you, but do you truly understand yourself? You simply do not wish to believe Davis is really THAT bad, DESPITE THE EVIDENCE TO THE CONTRARY. Because you still know the blessings of God you recieved from the Lord while under Davis' ministry. How then can he be THAT bad? Read on... And if the shoe fits on Davis, simply acknowledge he is wearing them (not me. I have repented. He has not)... if you disagree with the making of the shoe or the fit for certain ministers, then show me... | ||
| ambovee78 Intermediate Member Username: ambovee78 Post Number: 144 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.24.181.139 |
don't know if this belongs here but I will share it anyways. And I will post it in KJV for the NTCCers. }Acts 5:29 Then Peter and the [other] apostles answered and said, We ought to obey God rather than men. So all those people who believe every stinking last thing that comes out of Davis's mouth and the mouth of his flunkies...read the above scripture. John 13:16 Verily, verily, I say unto you, The servant is not greater than his lord; neither he that is sent greater than he that sent him. I've taken this to mean that no Pastor or Preacher no matter WHO he is, is above God. If God is his Lord. 2 Timothy 2: 22-26 (22)Flee also youthful lusts: but follow righteousness, faith, charity, peace, with them that call on the Lord out of a pure heart (23)But foolish and unlearned questions avoid, knowing that they do gender strifes. (24)And the servant of the Lord must not strive; but be gentle unto all [men], apt to teach, patient, (25)In meekness instructing those that oppose themselves; if God peradventure will give them repentance to the acknowledging of the truth; (26)And [that] they may recover themselves out of the snare of the devil, who are taken captive by him at his will. So a Pastor is a servant to the people and oh my goodness he is supposed to be gentle to all men and patient and meek. Hmmm doesn't sound like Davis at all. And for all you people who have left NTCC and are wishing that the truth of NTCC be revealed a scripture just for you. Matthew 10:26 Fear them not therefore: for there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; and hid, that shall not be known. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1760 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.45.112 |
My beloved Ambovee. You do my own heart good. You're use of the Sword is well-done. I like your stand against them that do evil to God's people by their dominion over them rather than being helpers to them... Ahhh yes, I am refreshed sister (Job 32:20). So, it's not JUST me... | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1761 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.45.112 |
Even as they who are forgiven much, love much. SO they who are damaged much, warn much! And even they who did not lose their spouses and families by such anti-christian ministries (as David Hill did not... good for him), they still burn for the damage to those GOOD CHRISTIANS that did lose all (like the Gregoires!) (2 Cor 11:29) Why? Because their love for Jesus INCLUDES HIS DEAR LITTLE SHEEP that were not so smart, wise, and fortunate! (As David Hill is... good for him) Which necessarily includes Jesus' PASSIONATE HATE (Psalms 139:22)(Rev 2:6,9) for the doctrine and deeds of the false, whited, seductive & all-conquering ministers that did the hurt to them for RESULTANT sake of profit and power over them! Period. "This is a deceiver and an antichrist." (2 John 1:7) | ||
| ambovee78 Intermediate Member Username: ambovee78 Post Number: 145 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.24.181.139 |
I've been spending alot of time praying and seeking the Lord and asking him many things and one of them is showing me scripture that can be of use to me and others who have left or are thinking of leaving NTCC. Alot of stuff I had forgotten. So it is a refreshing for me. Before NTCC I questioned everything that was taught not because I was being a pain in the butt. But because I wanted to make sure what I heard was right with the Word of God. And I would re read the scriptures Pastors had provided during sermons. I always took notes ALWAYS. I did while I was in NTCC but not that much. I think I have mentioned that my walk with God was better before NTCC. And I do believe I am slowly gaining that walk back and it is better then before. I have a calling on my life and I have known what this calling is since I was 9 years old. And I would REALLY like to get with it. I feel like I should have started walking in my calling years ago. I did learn things while in NTCC that other churches do not teach. Some of them were good and others were scriptures twisted to meet the needs of NTCC. Like the scripture of the man and wife who promised God a "cut" I will call it of the money they earned from selling property and they cheated God. I always hated how they used that scripture to get people to tithe. Because it has nothing to do with tithing what so ever. I am sure that my being raised in a Christian home and being saved a long time before I ever happened upon NTCC had something to do with the fact that I noticed when things were not right and why I did not stay as long as others have (no offense to those who were there years and years. It just seems to me that those who were raised in an honest to goodness good Christian family and church don't seem to stick around as long as those who were not). It still irritates me that I stayed as long as I did. But God lets everything happen for a reason. So over time I have become less and less irritated about it. I think back about things that happened before NTCC and I have come to realize that I think God was heading me down that path for a reason. I haven't totally figured that reason out yet. But I am in no hurry. God will reveal the reason eventually. I know that there are real Christians in NTCC. That some people there need that strict way of life because they lack self control that others do not. How they are treated is another story. I guess some people are gluttons for punishment. Especially those who were in the Military and treated like crap and they find NTCC and go from being treated like dirt in the military to being treated like dirt by the church. For a while after I left NTCC I wanted nothing to do with Christians ever again. The way I saw it.. If that was how Christians acted then I didn't want to even be in heaven with them. What the worlds definition of a Christian should be and what alot of the NTCCers Portray are two different things. I've met people who have never been to Church and they tell me how they think a Christian should look, act, etc to the world and then they tell me how they see alot of Christians acting and its two different things. I've heard alot of people say people like those in NTCC, UPC, etc who all look the same (the way they dress) freak them out. If they see them coming they run the other way. Not because they are convicted but because "oh my goodness here comes another shove God down my throat session!" And to be honest I haven't met very many nice UPCers or Apostolics, etc. Anywho. I need to go. I have to get stuff ready so that I can work tonight. Yes *GASP* a Christian Wife and Mother has a Job outside the home. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1775 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.43.21 |
Another mouth-full of good, strong meat! "I feel like I should have started walking in my calling years ago." The devil's work among Christians is to divert them from their path in Christ by another ministry that has a form of God's gospel, doctrine, and service, but who's means are contray to good Christian growth, and who's end is destruction, if not departed from in time! "For a while after I left NTCC I wanted nothing to do with Christians ever again. The way I saw it.. If that was how Christians acted then I didn't want to even be in heaven with them." And this is the very purpose of the devil's false ministry; whereby hypocrites, hard rulers, and false commanders cause others to blame God, His doctrine, service, and people. "I did learn things while in NTCC that other churches do not teach." And ALL of his Church-Building business (That others do in part) teaches us how NOT to do it! "And to be honest I haven't met very many nice UPCers or Apostolics, etc." And this, my dear friends, is truly the saddest of all sad results of the devil's antichristian ministry: "While they claim to be the nicest of all, they have lost all the kindness of God and His Christ"(!)(Matthew 23:28) Charity is kind in the Father's Loving People Business. Zeal is not in the builders' 'People Business'... There is a cost for obeying men and not God, even ignorantly by a falsely ministered faith, because the end thereof is to sell your soul and crucify your affections for the sake of success therein! 'As the Holy Ghost saith, To day if ye will hear his voice, Harden not your hearts...Take heed, brethren, lest there be in any of you an evil heart of unbelief, in departing from the living God.' (Heb 3) There is the right sacrifice of and Biblical crucifixion with Jesus the Lamb of God, and then there is the self-sacrificing and soul-crucifying service for others who act like lambs of God! (Rev 13:11) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1776 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.43.21 |
(Speaking of antichrists...) 7) Lamb Look-Alikes 'And I beheld another beast coming up out of the earth; and he had two horns like a lamb, and he spake as a dragon.' (Rev 13:11) Antichrists are ministers who's hearts are shown to be of a beastly kind (1 Cor 15:39), because their ends of success in the ministry are gotten by the earthly, sensual, and devilish means of men's wisdom (James 3;15). They depart from the written Word of God to establish their own power, rules, commandments, and programs over them that enter their churches, until they no longer have the Spirit at all having separated themselves from the rest of the body of Christ for their own ministry's sake (Jude 19). They present themselves as lambs with God's horns of righteousness and truth, but they speak with forked tongues of dragons. They sow and spit out dragon's teeth into the minds and hearts of the people, until the pure Word and unfeigned faith of God is choked and even destroyed by the hard and crushing bones of men's trust and profit. They destroy the very faith they preach! (Gal 1:23) They put on the two horns of the Lamb of God's faith and service by the preaching of His cross and resurrection, but they then immediately use Jesus' authority and power over His people to push and curse them by another gospel of pastoral loyalty and church building! The same one plants the Word of God for salvation and resurrection, but then immediately waters it with their own doctrines and works. These be they out of who's mouths both sweet water and bitter are sent! (James 3:11) They corrupt the blood of Jesus with their own sacrifice for ministerial success, so that they themselves become the lambs and gods who gave of their own time and effort to deliver the people from their sins. By their own blood, sweat, and tears they have laid themselves down at the doors of their temples; whereby the comers thereto ought do likewise at the altars thereof! "The ministry is a business, and you have to marry the ministry and lay your life down for it, before you can expect to be a success in it!" "Your Leaders have sacrificed their time and effort, as well as others that have gone before you, to give you an invitation to God's ministry, and you owe to those people out there to do the same for them!" Davis the first lamb of NTCC In the end they are lovers of their own selves and pleasures of success than they ever were lovers of God and men... (2 Tim 3:2-4) They are self-made, self-transformed, look-alike lambs, lousy lambs, loose lambs, lying lambs, lower lambs, loser lambs, lambs of another god, loveless lambs, lambs of destruction, lambs from hell and NOT from God! He that was a preacher of the gospel of Jesus Christ, and is not a servant of the people for Jesus' sake, and yet is a minister of another gospel and program of men. (Rev 17:8) | ||
| granite Intermediate Member Username: granite Post Number: 205 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 4.88.166.171 |
I posted this on the religious leaders thread (under "Pyramid"), but it is also apropos here for NTCC: %%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%%% There are several more names that belong on the list with this RAT PACK, Cybermom! These soothsayers are making merchandise of God's people, and they will continue fleecing the flock as long as gullible Christians wish to remain ignorant and turn a blind eye to what everyone looking in from the outside can plainly see. God's complaint is: "For My people are foolish... they are sottish." Sottish means STUPID or RETARDED! (Jeremiah 4:22) They have allowed the pope and these Jezebels and charlatans to pull the wool over their eyes and rob their pockets and spoil their minds. These people are treacherous and deceptive, and their message is vain. What people fail to realize is that often it is not what they say that is so bad, but what they do NOT say! They have a misplaced emphasis and an out of balance message (usually prosperity/giving-based) because they have an agenda for their followers. "Ephraim is a cake not turned." (Hosea 7:8) -- That is to say, they are like a pancake that is batter on one side and burnt on the other! Their extravagant lifestyles betray them, and preach a clearer message to the world than anything else they say. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1778 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.132.163 |
Davis is more like a cake turned and flipped once, twice, thrice too many times! 666... (No, R. W. Davis is NOT THE Antichrist, just one of the particularly sorrier one of many already out in the world of the last days (Which have been last days since the days of the Apostles) SO, these must be the last of the last days, or the really last days, because if they were the last days way back then, then just think how close His return must be. So, you had better quit being so selfish in your own houshold careers and get out there 'for God' and get more people into 'His' church organization on earth, before it's TOO LATE! This is a particular favorite tactic of Pre-millinial opportunists like Davis. Just another trick in the devil's bag to get God's people derailed from what God wants for them: their own personal prosperity and health as their souls prosper, out of which God's called ministers will be supported by their cheerful giving. But the devil's self-made anti-christian ministers transform and flip-flop that godly spiritual sowing and carnal reaping into Career-seeking Preachers who ought prosper from the sheep before they are allowed to! Antichrists are 'last days' opportunists... | ||
| pelfdaddy Advanced Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 920 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 76.211.11.54 |
I agree, Derrick, which is why... Dispensationalism and Rapture thinking, along with the We Are In The Last Days mentality, have got to go. People claim to believe that the New Testament is without error and Spirit-breathed, yet they contradictorily express the belief that the Apostles who SAID that THEY were in the Last Days were mistaken. That's nonsensical. The Last Days were a specific period long since fulfilled, along with the bulk of Jesus' own sayings of "the future" and the majority of the Revelation. There is no Rapture. We, our kids, and our grandkids, are going to live and die and then find out what awaits. If this understanding were widespread there would be no "last days opportunists". | ||
| ambovee78 Intermediate Member Username: ambovee78 Post Number: 156 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.24.181.139 |
I was thinking that the other day. If a Thousand years is as if a Day to God then...he could (just talking not saying this is when or if he will return bla bla bla) take ooh say 700 years of our time which would not even be a full day to him. And they (people) have been saying we have been in the last days since before I was born. you know it says in the bible it took God 6 days to create everything and on the 7th day he rested so.. It took him 6 thousand years to create everyhing and for the last thousand years he rested? If a day for God is a thousand years of our time. 2 Peter 3:8 (KJV) But, Beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years as one day. 2 Peter 3:8 (NIV) But do not forget this one thing, dear friends: With the Lord a day is like a thousand years, and a thousand years are like a day. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1780 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.132.163 |
Ahem. (This is MY thread. Stay off or stay tuned!) No, just kidding. These things actually tie-in to the nature of antichrists: Peter's repetition of Moses' Psalm about a thousand years is actually stated in a different way that I believe is intended to be unique to Christ's salvation. A literal translation of Peter could say: 'But, beloved, be not ignorant of this one thing, that one day is with the Lord as a thousand years, and a thousand years (with the Lord) as day one.' And so, once we have entered into the rest of the Lord's 7th Day of Salvation (Heb 3), then by His Spirit and now being With Him and our fellowship in the true Light, Every Day is a good day, and even after a thousand years of it, it's still just as good and fresh (Acts 3:19) and lively (1 Peter 1:3,2:5) as at the First! The key to that intended experiance in Christ in this present evil world is prayer, that we faint not from it... So, you can SPIRITUALLY say that salvation is the Day of Jesus, the hope of glory, in you, and thus His millenial kingdom in YOUR life, which is a thousand years, which is ever as day one: The Lord's and Your's together! | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1781 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.132.163 |
Now for the devil's work in the midst (Gorilla-ministers in the mist?): The antichrist's job from the devil is to INTRUDE themselves into that Day of your's and the Lord by intruding into His Headship, Lordship, Christship over you, to prevent your being established fully in Jesus' faith, and so cultishly turn the day star rising in your heart (2 Peter 1:19) into the Evening Star of Lucifer! There's still some Light, but it's dusky and darkened: The Dark Star shining it's Black Light! The old candle in a cave, or den of thieves experience, thinking that's as good as it gets! Notice that Peter's call to the Day Star is the very Scripture before the First rule of ministry (2 Peter 1:20). To wit, don't preach your private interpretations as Scripture for others, which is in fact the beginning of errors of even good & sincere believers that can turn them into full-fledged ministerial wolves in our midst. For by this error, the Morning Star of Jesus Christ born into the believer's heart is transformed into Lucifer's Evening Star, BY-PASSING the Day Star completely! So that the establishment of faith in Jesus is twisted into the cementing of loyalty to another false christ! And guess what else: A decided mark of beastly-building ministries on the backs of the sheep is snatching up the new babes from Christ's cradle right into the young mens' soulwinning program, and then on to becoming adult-like pulpit-career seekers themselves: Christlike Thieves robbing Jesus' cradle to build and pay for the builder's whited grave and sepulchre! Babes and novices in post-elder positions: From Morning Star to Evening Star (And skip the Day Star!) Davis the Christ... over his own baby soulwinners and young-pup preachers loyalized into working for his ministerial success. (Truly his pulpit-bearers are 2 x 4 preachers, who indeed are whipped into shape by his 2 x 4 training program!) | ||
| granite Intermediate Member Username: granite Post Number: 206 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 72.24.207.240 |
"Dispensationalism and (pre-Trib) Rapture thinking... have got to go." Yes! 'Imminent' & 'any moment' are both often used to describe the pre-Trib rapture. While they do sound alike, they are NOT synonymous! Thanksgiving is imminent, but it will NOT arrive at just any moment. And check this out: Some say the "secret Rapture" happens in Rev. 4:1 like a thief in the night, and yet over in 16:15 it says, "Behold, I come as a thief." -- So then that means we've got TWO THIEVES coming!  | ||
| godisright New member Username: godisright Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 70.196.61.175 |
You've got a mouth full alright. A big mouth full! So you see now that you claim the rapture has already passed just like Paul warned against! There it is! You've shown yourself! Your mind is gone now and I'm sorry for you, but that's not Pastor's fault nor anyone esle's but your own. You need to repent that's all. If the rapture has passed then we're all lost but I know we're not because we're God's church and we know in whom we believe and are praying to Him everyday and He is good! GOD IS RIGHT ALL THE TIME! | ||
| pelfdaddy Advanced Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 928 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.128.27.163 |
godisright, Slow down, pal...everything's gonna be alright. The reference is to the fact that the Bible does not teach a rapture at all, but it is an invention of a doctrine that is about 150 years old. The events described in Revelation are first-century events. That's all I'm saying. Do a little reading outside the confines of your group-think library system. And please keep posting, because your every word is a perfect picture of a manipulated mind. Keep saying stuff like "we're God's church", because some of you guys are denying that you think like this. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1802 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.98.239 |
"And please keep posting, because your every word is a perfect picture of a manipulated mind." An antichristian mind? Made by an antichrist? And so we see the absolute effect of man's loyalty preached for God's faith: anti-christian! Another trick of the devil is to convince people he doesn't exist. And so, master Pelfry, what about this antichrist doesn't exist (any longer) heresy of your's? Hmmm? How can you possibly say the antichrist is past already (2 Tim 2:18), when you have Davis here to prove the contrary?! (Half-laugh) I say he proves at least the SPIRIT of antichrist is still alive & well, or rather active and sick... And so, some questions: 1) Is the rapture past also? Is there a rapture? 2) Is Rome the Babylon that is burning? 3) What about the 2nd Coming and gathered armies around Jerusalem? (Message edited by bro derrick on November 13, 2007) | ||
| pelfdaddy Advanced Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 941 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.214.141.229 |
1) There is none 2) Israel is usually called Babylon, but even the Israel of prophecy is past 3) (a) The Coming was not visible or physical, but a visitation of judgement in 70 AD; else why did the prophets use the same language to describe similar events that did not involve a visible invasion? (b) The armies gathered under the command of Titus in 70 AD. Jesus stated that all of his predictions would come to pass within the generation that heard him speaking; only the most excruciating twist can evade this bald fact. The fact that the Beast (Rome) and it's personification (Nero) are past does not mean that the spirit of antichrist either is or is not a current phenomenon; in fact it shows us nothing at all about this spirit. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1804 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.98.239 |
So, the beast is dead, but the spirit lives on... Most ALL of the above teaching about antichrists is the spiritual characteristics and ministerial works of such beasts... 1) What then does Paul speak of in our being caught up? (1 Thess 4:17) (Antichristian ministers cause believers to get caught up in the air of their special anointings as Christs themselves! Rowdy Raptures! Wrong Raptures! Rude Rapturers! Oops... there I go again...) 2) Babylon indeed is Jerusalem made spiritually Sodom & Egypt (Rev 11:8) And so by extension is any such earthly religious headquarters made in opposition to the Heavenly Jerusalem's glory: The Jews' religion in Jerusalem and the Christians Religion in Graham! Babylonish Graham. Babylon-Graham the Great! 3) I was speaking of Rev 19: What battle is this fought between the beast with the kings' armies and The Lord followed by His armies on white horses? (Beastly church-builders organize the Lord's one-time kings and priests into the recruitment armies of a phony war for souls that BLITZ against the Lord's own still-faithful body. They become conquering kings of earthly programs that lose their priesthood in Christ Jesus: They lost their walk with Him in white by taking on a more whited one with another one like Him!) 'This Generation' being the one with these things happening whenever that may be, has always been a little bit of a reach... But that generation is that of the coming of the Son of man, which was NOT in 70 A. D.: At least not that of Rev 19. 4) Nero's persecution of the Christians as the scapegoats for his own burning of Rome indeed shows the spirit of antichrist in the physical sense: That of blaming your own innocent subjects for your own self-made failures and guiltiness. Davis' own program insures his own failures to grow, which he then blames on his own followers that work it... for not working it hard enough! In both cases, it's the unjust ruler persecuting and seeking to destroy the Christian believers... "You're here because you failed and the devil ran you out of town!" Davis: Graham (Not having the number of working pulpits he wants in his organization to impress his antichristian god with) "The Lord let me know that the failure was your fault for not working hard enough!" Denis: Woodbrook (Not getting the numbers he wanted in order to impress his antichristian Davis with) | ||
| kobegone New member Username: kobegone Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 66.74.43.210 |
"What an antichrist is by Biblical definition. Davis, Denis, et al qualify." Come on bro derrick! You should weigh your words before you speak them. By definition, the word anti means against. I left NTCC, and am glad that I'm gone, but I wouldn't go as far as to say that R.W. Davis is an antichrist. Remember what John said about antichrists? He said that anybody who denied that Jesus is come in the flesh is antichrist. Davis is definitely for Christ, but NTCC is more or less a power hungry church who likes to control the lives of those who come in and make it hard for them to get out. They are a group who likes to think that whatever they say and do is right and what everybody else say and do are wrong. They like to think that the way they worship, dress, sing, fellowship etc. is the only way, and if any other church doesn't do it like them, they are in error. But they do love Christ and are not against Christ. By the way, did Denis go back to NTCC? | ||
| mklo Advanced Member Username: mklo Post Number: 646 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 67.185.114.218 |
So then, according to you, they exhibit all the hallmarks of the Pharisees that Christ condemned in no uncertain terms. But they are definitely for Christ. That's an interesting angle. | ||
| imaskingwhy New member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
The churches in Revelation were both for and against Christ, which is why he mentioned the good stuff first and then "but I have somewhat against you". Whether or not they ever repented is between them and God, but until then they where the churches christ walked among when the scripture said that he "walked among the candlesticks". BDH | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1808 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.210.113 |
Ok. List the good stuff of Davis' program. (Do not list the good people working it and being destroyed thereby) | ||
| kobegone New member Username: kobegone Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 66.74.43.210 |
Ok. List the good stuff of Davis' program. First of all, you can't compare Mr. Davis to the Pharisees, because the Pharisees didn't even claim to follow Christ, and they rejected and despised him. They even hated those who were of that "way," and they persecuted them; and they wouldn't dare preach Christ, but Mr. Davis do. He is in the same category as those who Paul mentioned in Philippians 15-18, "Some indeed preach Christ even of envy and strife; and some also of good will: The one preach of Christ in contention, not sincerely, supposing to add affliction to my bonds: but the other of love, knowing that I am set for the defence of the gospel. What then? notwithstanding, every way, wheter in pretence, or in truth, Christ is preached; and I therein do rejoice, yea, and will rejoice." Here are some of the good things Davis do: (1)He does preach the gospel of Jesus Christ. I'm sorry, it took me too long to think of something else, but the most important thing is, he preach the gospel. | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1348 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.223.233.130 |
"First of all, you can't compare Mr. Davis to the Pharisees, because the Pharisees didn't even claim to follow Christ, and they rejected and despised him." They claimed to follow God, though, and made the path so difficult that it hindered others. Comparable is not identical, and there are enough points of similarity to make this case quite valid on a number of points. One also must understand that just because one claims to be something doesn't mean he is. The prophet rebuked those who drew close to God with their lips but whose hearts were far from him. Some of the actions of NTCC leaders indicate a disconnect with God's character and ways, no matter what they say with their mouths. | ||
| kobegone New member Username: kobegone Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 66.74.43.210 |
You made your point. Paul is a prime example one who had a great zeal for God, and thought he was doing God's will, but on the road to Damascus he found out that he was actually fighting God. | ||
| pelfdaddy Advanced Member Username: pelfdaddy Post Number: 947 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 166.214.73.87 |
"Pharisees" were by definition "separatists", which is the very core of Davis. When he quotes "Come out from among them and be ye separate", the 'them' Davis is talking about is every other Christian who does not adhere to his rules for holiness. His adding to the scripture and inducing others to bear unnecessary burdens is a chief sin of the Pharisees. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1823 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.216.5.137 |
The Pharisees of the Jews Religion, and the Pentecosts of the Christians religion: the devil has them both for both covenants with the same purpose, tricks, and results: To profit in God's ministry by the use of men's ways to the destruction of God's sheep. Saul of Tarsus was claiming God's true religion of the Jews while persecuting the people of His New Covenant. When he repented, Paul the apostle ceased to preach men's commandments and only ministered that which was written to help them that believe Jesus is the Christ. Davis of Graham claims God's true religion of the Christians while destroying the people of the New Covenant he preaches! If he repents, he will cease preaching his own commandments and preach only that which the apostles have written to help them that believe Jesus is the Christ. Until then, Davis will continue to destroy the vey faith he preaches by the program he pushes. So, once again: Name One Good Thing about Davis' Program (We all know about the good people he gets in by the Gospel of the cross he preaches: but that cross is immediatley used to use them.) Other than his lip-service use of "Jesus is the Christ and saves from sin and fills with the Holy Ghost", what exactly does he teach and minister about God's life and service that is Good: I.e. BIBLE?? | ||
| kobegone New member Username: kobegone Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 66.74.43.210 |
If you want to hear a man who really cared for the people he preached to, check out Billy Graham Sermons/Los Angeles Crusade on youtube, and many more of his sermons. You will find some powerful heart touching messages. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1839 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.216.166.217 |
Absolutely & Amen! He has done the one main thing that Scripture exhorts God's ministers to do: Pray and minister His Word: Preach the gospel of the cross & resurrection according to the Scriptures (1 Cor 15:1-4). He has NEVER moved beyond nor aside from this one main thing, that is woefully lacking in many ministries. A lot of the stuff out there is good Christian teaching and even Biblic psychology, BUT very few actually minister Jesus and His cross as a mainstay of their preaching. This is why many good Christian people are weak in faith and spiritual living: our passion for Christ comes directly and continually from Jesus' cross (Acts 1:3). They want to be resurrected without the blood... | ||
| imaskingwhy Junior Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 34 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
But of course everyone else is wrong becuase only the factnet warrior can be right. http://www.cephasministry.com/billy_graham_meet_the_real.html BDH | ||
| imaskingwhy Junior Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
Is there proof that Billy Graham is a freemason? Lets ask the resident expert if Billy Graham has anything to do with promoting the spirit of the Antichrist, bro Derrick? http://www.geocities.com/endtimedeception/billy.htm | ||
| kobegone New member Username: kobegone Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 66.74.43.210 |
I'm praying for you BDH. Areyouaskingwhy? You need it! | ||
| imaskingwhy Junior Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 36 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
My point here (if you actually took a look at the websights I posted) is that no matter what ministry you promote as a model, someone else is scripturally obliged to make battle. Here we have a Factnet hero with a knife deep in the back of NTCC and a hand held out to Billy Grhaham. Like I said before, all ministries are fallible and in need of being corrected. If your going to set yourself up as judge and jury then at least be consistent across the board. BDH | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1846 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.216.115.210 |
The PERSONAL LIVES of ALL PEOPLE will be judged between themselves and God individually. The Scriptures tell us plainly what works of the flesh prove we are individually outside of God's will (Which most preachers will preach about), but the Scriptures ALSO tell us plainly what ministerial works likewise prove we are outside of His ministry (which most preachers will NOT preach about). Which is why God's people are SO SEDUCED by some few would-be preachers. (And the fewer the better! Hence our fight) What has Billy Graham SEDUCED people into? ALL of his public ministering has CONSISTENTLY been about Jesus, His cross, His blood, His forgiveness of sins. IF the man himself has not or does not or no longer believes and trusts in that gospel of the cross that he HAS FAITHFULLY preached, then I am sorry for him, but he has NOT led nor seduced me into ANY personal following of his own, because he has preached the cross consistently and ONLY. Such is NOT Davis, nor his types, who may even be as 'pure' in personal adultery that he claims and tries so desparately to appear to be, yet is still guilty of a ministerially-induced adultery that Billy Ghaham has not ever been even CLOSE TO being guilty of (!) I would sooner hear a Billy Graham that gets drunk every Saturday night and repents enough Sunday Mornings to preach Jesus' cross and grace, than I would EVER AGAIN willingly sit in the devil's pews of all-whited pulpits, where so-called greatest of the great, best of the best ministers who's OWN words, deeds, manners, and results are the very express purpose of enriching himself with power over and cash from my Christian faith and affections (!) Drunkards can be prayed for, NOT successful cultists! | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1847 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.216.115.210 |
ONE-MORE-TIME: Our dispute is not about JUST you not wanting to dig THAT deep and believe Davis THAT bad, but you also turned to lob loyalty grenades of judging us as thus being TOO proud, hateful, fault-finding, etc... If you simply don't wish to follow me down Davis' rat-hole to expose his full garbage stored up over the decades, fine. Don't 'go there'. But don't then presume the great & lofty judgment of stinky & guey bi-partisanship to hault us as well. I am not bi-partisan and neither is Davis. He is to repent, not I (I already have by the same Sword thrust all-the-way through into my onw heart, which just keeps going deeper and deeper, as I get gladder and gladder about it!) PROVE one specific point and reasoning of Scripture I have made to be wrong. I have addressed every point you've made and offered Scripture to boot. Answer this: is Davisisright only partially blind? If so, Davis' is only partially bad. And if indeed it is only partial, then: 1) What specifically is right about Davisisright's words 2) What specifically is good about Davis' church-building ministry (Do not mention the cross he perverts and the good people he uses by it. | ||
| imaskingwhy Junior Member Username: imaskingwhy Post Number: 37 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 216.40.83.170 |
Brother Derrick said: "PROVE one specific point and reasoning of Scripture I have made to be wrong. I have addressed every point you've made and offered Scripture to boot". I am happy with my responses to you and really don't have a need to draw this out. You are free to do as you please toward NTCC and RWD. We can agree to disagree. Though I have a differing view on some things I rally around the Christ and His cross and ressurrection with you. Bryan David Hill | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1852 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.197.126.248 |
Fair enough. And you don't even have to apologize for ranking Derrick-types (Ha!) as fault-finding, false-accusing, proud and bitter against God's 'flawed' vessels & servants. And I likewise do not at all doubt your Christianity, though indeed I was getting to have a bit of an angst about the whole affair... towards you. So I do apologize for that. And my purpose for this post is to simply let you know, that you can't help me out of the depth of this Davis-rat hold that I am digging in, because it is the Scriptures themselves that keep taking me back to it, and prayer that moves me to expose & hopefully break it thoroughly... from others even as I. Believe me. I've tried to quit and forget. But it is the remembrances brought back to me, and the Bible Reading making it clear to me, and then finally prayer that moves me back to it and here. Indeed, some of my mnost 'arrogant' posts have been after prayer. And if it's my praying that is wrong, then all I can say is the postings themselves with the Bible verses and my comparisons to Davis' own record that must FIRST be judged: one point, ANY point at a time. (Never was I so thrilled than when you actually posted the EXACT Scriptures on an antichrist, because finally someone was calling me to task in a serious way!) And frankly, not many people at all have even tried or bothered to do so. Simply put: in matters of the ministry and the judgments of peoples' deeds with one another, I am persuaded ONLY by the written Word of God and making the right sense & application thereof. So, I am as simply and gladly captivated and self-addicted by the teaching today, and more than ever, as I was when first the same Scriptures began to cause the scales of Davis' ministry to fall from my eyes, after he (and Denis) managed to slap their vails from my face (!) | ||
| godisright New member Username: godisright Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 70.218.214.59 |
You are wrong! Caling Pastor Davis an antichrist is wrong. Even the people on here know it! You can stand the fact that Pastor is still right about God's message, and so you call him of the devil! You left God's church because of compromise, and now you fight against God's man and work, and you are so full of hatred that you fight everyone else too! You left God's house, and now you fight with each other like James said, because you are full of lust for the world! You and Denis tried to divide God's house and organization and bring Pastor down, but it did not work, and so you are falling apart! A house divided cannot stand, and Pastor did not let you do that, and so we still stand in God's true message, but you are falling into pieces, just like everytime in the past of church history, when people loeft. But God's organization is going to stand right until He comes, because He has men this time like in the times of the apostles who will stand for holiness. Pastor won't compromise and Rev Olson won't, and Reverend Kekel won't. So God has His organization secure for several generations if He doesn't return right away! And Praise God for that! I'm glad to be in God's true holiness church! Of course Pastor is a man of God. They all are, because they chose to make a stand for the holiness preaching of God. Pauyl was a holiness preacher, Pastor is a holiness preacher, and we preach His holiness message. You can fight it, and you can fight God and God's men and each other, and you will all fall unless you repent. That's not anyone else's fault but your own. Not our's but your's and not God's! Look at how you fight with each other too! That's not God and you know it. But you are not like you used to be, when you were serving God in His church. Just like Demas who forsook Paul in the work of God, so you have forsaken God's man today. God will always have His man to preach His gospel, and people can join Him in God's work or not. It is everyone's own choice and then the judgment. We can see the judgment now too, because Satan is fighting Satan and his house is falling just like Jesus said, and you are falling with it! Pastor will forgive you, and God too, but not if you still keep fighting Him. It's your choice, and we have made ours. we are staying where God has a real place for us to serve Him without serving the world too! This is right, and you know it. GOD IS STILL RIGHT! THANK GOD TOO! | ||
| victorjohanson Senior Member Username: victorjohanson Post Number: 1368 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 66.223.233.130 |
Wow, godisright, I'm really convicted. Do you think NTCC will take me back? I hope they do, before that horrible plague or catastrophic accident befalls me for forsaking "God's house." I'm sorry I ever had an independent thought; I renounce all of that and will gladly let "God's man" micromanage my life. I really miss getting permission to pick my nose, and I know that there isn't another church on the planet that isn't Ichabod City except that glorious tabernacle out in Graham, where God's men tell God's people how to do God's work. Oh how deceived I've been! I knew I should have worn those wingtips; no doubt my refusal to do so indicated a deep heart problem and foretold my eventual fall to destruction. Next time around I'll make sure my feet are sanctified. Not. God is right, but you are all wet. | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1898 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.218.123.200 |
So far as whether there is a rapture or whether The Antichrist has already come as Nero and whether there remains any antichrists, I have yet to see proofs, so I'll just continue to believe there is a rapture to come, and The Antichrist to follow, and many antichrists are still gone out into the world with the spirit of antichrist. But, one point is to find out if ALL references to antichrists are AFTER Paul's writing about that 'man of sin'. If so, then these antichrists may not have come into the world, until after the First one, that man of sin. Which would mean That Antichrist has already come, because we know by Scripture that the other ones are already come. Which would also mean they are still coming.... (Bwahahahahahah!) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1905 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.33.225 |
'And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men.' (Rev 13:13) This is another beast coming up out of the earth who has two horns like a lamb, like a beastly minister who has preached the gospel of the cross with Jesus as the Lamb of God. However, his rise to power out of the earth shows his ministerial manners and means of success to have been carnal, earthy, sensual, and ultimately devilish for the sake of his own name and fame as a great church builder. And his main point of persuasion was his ability to make fire come down out of heaven in the sight of men, which was his great and 'firey' preaching that he artfully practised for the very effect of gathering a personal following to himself, more so than any sincere desire to see people saved and blessed of God. Portraying himself as a lamb of God likewise, he yet speaks great but false things like a dragon, wresting the Scriptures and adding personal rules and commandments for gain. And so many good people are decieved by such angels of light, because of the seductive error that he MUST be a 'man of God', since the Holy Ghost moves in his services (!) The key of cultism is that such beasts in lambs' likeness make the fire fall in the sight of men. All the preaching and pulpiteering is solely for the purpose of gaining power, dominion, and profit over others, even by preaching the cross and using the very Spirit of God to bewitch them that believe into thinking he thus has 'apostolic' right to give oral (yet unwritten) rules and commandments to the saints, as though he were one of the 12 (!), (who have already laid the foundation and doctrine of Christ in Scripture, which no other man may lay nor add to.) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1907 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.33.225 |
(Beastly lamb cont...) The gospel of God is the preaching of the cross of Jesus as the Christ and Lord, the only Savior of man Who is able to forgive sins and deliver from the power of evil and death. Any other gospel preaching therefore is that which does not bring it's focus to Jesus by name and His cross by work. It matters not what text or subject or sport is spoken of in the meassage, so long as it is brought back to Jesus and His cross for forgiveness of sins, then it is indeed the gospel of Jesus Christ. Contrariwise, it matters not what Scriptures nor people of the Bible, nor naming of God and Lord and Almighty, etc... are preached, for if the focus is NOT brought back to Jesus by Name and His cross for God's work in peoples' hearts, then ANOTHER GOSPEL has been preached for the work of another man's business in the ministry of the saints (!) For there is only one name that brings people to their knees, whereby they might be saved and blessed of God: Jesus. And without His name, nor His cross, there is no salvation, nor blessing, nor work of God in that service. So, such 'fiery' services are all about 'getting' God to move for the sole sake of 'getting' people to work, under the banner of 'getting' the believers excited and passionate and fervent about the 'program' of God, which inevitably is focused on the success of more attendance in the preacher's personal church: i.e. a 'go-getter' that makes the ministry of God into a profit-seeking business. A beast in the ministry. And the seductive nature of such fire-getting is that the Spirit of God does and shall indeed come down from heaven to minister to the hearts of the hearers, if Jesus' Gospel and cross are indeed preached (1 Peter 1:12), howbeit the assembly becomes devilishly mixed with the strange fire and unheavenly calling of cult-Leading men, who in fact may preach the cross from the heart, but it is a heart that has become more beast than lamb by it being thoroughly exercised with covetous practices (!) And so in the end, they preach Jesus as Lord with the lips and by a mouth given to them of the devil, all the while teaching and persuading the simple to themselves and their own minds as it were God and His Word. They ministerially build and prepare a body of believers for their own gain, only to put the head and name of Jesus on it for persuasive effect... They have horns like a lamb, but they push with them like a goat! They are wolves in sheep's clothing only, who were once lambs themselves; howbeit they lost that heavenly calling to build up and help the saints' joy for the sake of the more earthly business of building churches out of the saints to help themselves to their own gain (!) | ||
| ntcctruth Advanced Member Username: ntcctruth Post Number: 989 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 70.102.118.90 |
According to this Taliban version of the Oneness Pentecostal borg, all of us on this forum are antichrists because we're trinitarians! http://www.prime.org/trinity_is_antichrist_sermon.html Marc Perez | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1950 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.218.104 |
So, Davis can't be an antichrist (despite all the evidence to the contrary, because he sure do ACT like one..), because an antichrist must be someone who denies that Jesus is the Christ and confesses not that Jesus Christ is come in the flesh (1 John 2:22,4:3)(2 John 1:7) That would mean that EVERY non-believer on earth is an antichrist... Not only that, but since 'denying' is mentioned in one verse, but 'confessing not' is mentioned twice, then those who don't deny Jesus is the Christ but do fail to confess Him as such in the flesh openly are also antichrists... And since those who once knew the truth and then turned back from it are worse off (to themselves and others around them) than before when they knew not the truth, then that would mean that the WORST antichrists are them who WERE saved believers, but ARE NOT anymore! | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1951 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.218.104 |
But now let's look at all these Scriptures in the ministerial view, which DEFINITELY is the stomping-ground of an antichrist. 1) Antichrists are first and foremost DECIEVERS and SEDUCERS of Christians (1 John 2:26, 2John 1:7) As we learned from the serpent, Satan's method for destroying those born of God is by the use of SUBTELTY in the ministry concerning EXACTLY what did God say... Jesus also warns most of those who speak of a Christ as being here or there (where the speakers are!), and yet are decievers of even the elect, if possible (I.e. if the elect allow it). 2) Antichrists are those who WERE among the apostles and the church, but went out from them to minister their own things differently from the apostles' doctrine and common ministry of the body of Christ: Separtists. 'Special' ministers with greater or better doctrines. Just like the Pharisees did in the ministering of Moses. Such ministers get so wrapped up in their programs to build churches and thus themselves as the focus of ministerial attention and Christian standards, that they cease to confess publicly from their pulpits that Jesus is the Christ: they cease to preach Jesus Christ and Him crucifed as they had in the beginning. Less and a less about Jesus and His blood's salvation, more and more about the 'Pastor' and his program's necessity! 4) And finally Paul spoke of those who profess Christ but in works deny Him, and so even this Scripture is accounted for ministerially by them who confess themselves (More so than others) as great Christian ministers for Christ, and yet in their ministerial works, they DENY Jesus as the Christ, Lord, and Head over His body, even over THAT assembly. So, while they proclaim themselves to be somewhat in order to lure the believers to their pulpits, they then DENY Jesus His rightful Headship over the believers to become lords themselves of their own assemblies for the merchandising profit of it. Antichristian ministries of antichrist ministers who no longer hold to the apostles' doctrine nor confess Jesus from the pulpit, to the point of denying Jesus His pre-eminence over His flock for their continued good. Diotrephes-types desiring it for his own good to their bad: Separatist Leaders for Lordship over the members, not wanting the apostle's doctrine nor Jesus Headship interferring with the building of his own church! (3 John 9-10) | ||
| bro_derrick Senior Member Username: bro_derrick Post Number: 1952 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 70.196.218.104 |
Thus in conclusion: Antichrists are those particularly sorry kinds of ministers who dominate and destroy the sheep from within the body by their personally separating ministries that began with Jesus as the Christ, and WAS the foundation of their building, but then began to become Christs themselves by moving farther and farther away from the cross, the apostles' doctrine of the Scriptures, and the work of Jesus Himself as the ONLY Builder of His church, that they mihgt more and more pursue their personal doctrines, programs, and organizational success over the sheep. And they are MOST convincing, and thus seductive and destructive, because they themselves WERE in fact once good believers among the body of apostles and believers of Jesus Christ, but became losers of their own souls as well as those of others by their rising lust to succeed in a ministry they were not yet called to! Those who decieve the most are the most decieved about themselves! Other are so convinced you are right, because you are so convinced you are right: but the Scriptures tell the real story! Even as Judas, Balaam, king Saul, and Lucifer himself: they ARE such great destroyers, because they once had the Lord's anointing to minister and rule over God's heritage, but lost it in their greed for power and profit. They are thus worse off to themselves as well as others than if they had never known the truth and ministered in it. They destroy those within from within AND from the top! (As good ol' Capt Kirk once said, "who better to be a Jack-the-Ripper, than the Police Commissioner?") He that was a good believer, and is not anymore, and yet is still ruling over other believers like a Christ himself (Rev 17:8) As Paul and Jude warned us, they creep in to do their dirty work among the saints and are spots in our feasts of charity. Those who openly declare themselves against Jesus Christ do not creep in, but rather barge in. But those who best work for the devil who does desire to overthrow the faith of Jesus are they who were Jesus' followers, but are now gathering their own followings in Jesus' name. So that they carve out for themselves by seduction and deciet their own little 'Christian' organizational empires of churches of personal power, honor, and lucre. Indeed, the Christians are having their feasts of charity in their innocense of fellowship, but the biggest spots of all are those at the top with their (filthy & foolish) fellowship rules! Control the believers' lives by personalizing the doctrine around your standards, and control their assembling by ruling their fellowship around your person. |
