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tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 845
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.7.253
| | Posted on Friday, October 12, 2007 - 10:48 pm: | 
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By The Standards of the Founder of NTCC, there just ain't a whole lot going on with this organization which supposedly and which it claims is God's last outreach to the human race on this earth.
A little perusal of the NTCC website yielded some interesting factoids.
It seems that not one of Davis' preachers is doing what he has taught and what he has preached...which is that there should be growth and a purchase of a church building for a preacher to be considered to be successful.
All of us who have had the "pleasure" of attending the Bible College know that he has given many a preacher a public verbal "spanking" for not having a building "yet" and for not having many people in attendance "Yet". He puts the blame at the preacher's feet in question...no IF'S, AND'S OR BUT'S.
It seems that if you click on a particular state to locate one of their churches, you will obtain a list. If you click on the website for that particular city, then you will see a front page similar to the front page of the NTCC website. If you click on the ABOUT US page, then you will see...more times than not, a picture of the couple or the man who is "pastoring" in that city.
Also, it seems...(and I could be wrong on this), that the cities which own a church also have a picture. Those that don't...don't.
That isn't always true though...because I know of two particular cities which have a picture, but they do not own the building, they are only renting space.
Many of the preachers aren't even renting a space...such as a storefront (and Davis' opninon has wavered over the years as to whether it is a good and godly thing to have a storefront or a bad and ungodly and disobedient thing to have a storefront...just like everything else...it changes with the wind.)
Here are a few examples:
GANDY (who is one of Davis' best buds) in North Carolina, in Fayetteville.
He is holding services in the Bethel Assembly of God.
Can anyone remember out there Davis' attitude about those who attend the Assemblies?
I guess they are okee dokee if you need their space to have services in.
Let me make one thing perfectly clear in sharing this information with you.
I have never and neither has my husband, held to the belief that the only way to please the Lord in our endeavors to reach the lost for Him is to have services...a "full schedule" and to have an actual building in which the "unsuspecting" can come to congregate.
I have no problem with the fact that many of the NTCC preachers are meeting in Hotel rooms and some aren't even doing that. And, I'm talking about preachers who have been in cities for over ten years.
I could care less if those who want to share Christ just wander from house to house having Bible studies, etc. I think it is safer for the public at large if NTCC preachers conduct themselves that way.
NTCC is not about that. They are about having money sent to Graham and about having offerings "taken up". (These are things taught by Davis himself. He runs this thing as a business and makes no bones about teaching men to do likewise and join in the same dissemulation).
Paul had the nerve to rebuke Peter...a man who had "been there first" for his behavior among the Jews.
Is there a Paul in NTCC who has the guts to do the same?
Time will tell.
I guess Paul didn't know about Pastoral Authority. Maybe he received a "tongue lashing" at the next organizational conference.
Maybe he'll tell us those details when we meet him in Heaven. |
tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 847
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.7.253
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 2:15 am: |
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Texas:
Austin: Meets at the Country Inn
El Paso: The interesting thing about the picture of the building in this city is that it has a banner up which says: REVIVAL FROM HEAVEN. This appears to be a storefront building. I can't tell if they are advertising for special services, or if they are claiming that when someone walks inside, they will always and in each service...experience...REVIVAL FROM HEAVEN. I just can't be sure.
Killeen: Pretty small building considering how
long NTCC has been in that
town.
Amarillo: they have a church building, small
Beaumont: No picture of a church building
Corpus Christi: No picture
Dallas: Been there a long time and no picture
of a building. Do they just rent?
Irving: No building picture
Houston: Yes, a building picture...way to go
Robert!
San Antonio: Yes, a building picture.
You may be wondering what in the world I'm getting at with this thread.
I'll be glad to tell you.
For those of us who spent what seems like a lifetime in NTCC...we heard the hipe over and over and over again...about how that NTCC was God's last great move on the earth. And we heard at every conference about how that WE ARE ON THE MOVE! Yahoo!
So, by using the standards set forth in Davis' own classes and from his own preaching, {most especially at conferences where he is wont to humiliate the preachers who are "under his ministry"...for "not doing anything" in the town they're in...for reasons such as...not having a building or more than a handful of people...(which seems to be the norm in this org)....I want to illustrate..that they are not this MOVE OF GOD SWEEPING THE UNIVERSE. They have little pathetic outposts (by their own standards)...being manned by preachers who are sick and tired and overworked and who have really nothing to show for their "time in service". Many are very sick and cannot pay for healthcare for themselves or their family members. Many are just getting by. Meanwhile, back in Graham...they are doing way more than just getting by.
And...hurrah for those of you who are out on the "field" and you are doing more than getting by. Kudos to "you-dos". You are not the norm.
one lady sent me an email recently and was proud of the fact that she and her husband own a home and drive a BMW. But, I noticed from the NTCC website that they are meeting in a Days Inn...so, I think they have their priorities a little messed up. At least, that's what I've heard at conferences about those who have "stuff" and yet have "nothing to show" (by Davis' standards) for the time spent in that city. You have stuff, and Jesus has no place to lay His head. (I've got news for you...He does! And He does it all without the help of NTCC)
Since the members...(the few that there are nationwide), of these churches and the pastors...probably don't have the time to check out these stats from the NTCC Official website...I thought I'd do the legwork for them so they could know for sure...at the next conference...what is really going on around the globe and maybe they will stop beating themselves up for not "doing enough for the Lord" when they see that they are doing as well as or maybe a little better than everyone else.
to be continued... |
tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 848
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.7.253
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 2:29 am: |
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Little Rock, AR: A store front. They've been there for quite some time.
If you are looking to attend NTCC in Tuscon, AZ or Jersey City, NJ (glad to see you back in my home state again...it's been a while since the church was closed down there)...then you will have to call for information. They is an indication that there is no building and they are not renting a place either.
The folks in Jersey are relatively new to the area, so we can cut them some slack. Although, the Dorsies haven't been in Barberton, OH very long and they have a building of sorts. Not sure if they rent or own. Maybe the couple in jersey have to be more "slick" and "pushy". They have to "push the program"...harder.
Tuscon...the couple there has been there a while. Yet, no building of any sort.
IN Los Angeles, you have to call for information. Those folks have been there for about 13 or so years. I was going to type that they are good folks who love people. I know both couples quite well. But, I know that some of these men are different, much different in the pulpit. I hope that is not the case with this particular brother. I'm glad they are not successful according to the Davis model...that hopefully means they're successful in the Jesus "model".
If you are looking to attend church in La Mesa, then you'll be meeting in the Senior Adult Center. I hope that brother doesn't "catch" it at conference. And, I mean that.
From the Official NTCC website, it seems there is only one church in California with a building.
Colorado, has one building...out of two cities with churches. But again, the man with the building is a Davis wannabe to the max. Everyone knows it. Why compromise yourself like that for some temporary recognition paid to you by some "man". It doesn't last and it does nothing for the soul. |
tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 849
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.7.253
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 2:47 am: |
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If you look up the church in Graham, WA...you know, the Big Daddy of them all...it is the only church in the organization which brings you to that page with the little guy trying to jackhammer a boulder.
There is no picture of the church in Graham. No picture of the Pastor and his wife.
And, on the main website, there is nothing under the Children's Ministry...that link is still under construction.
The About Us section is under construction.
The What WE Believe section is there, but they have chosen not to include their "distinguishing feature" doctrines. Why is that?
They claim on the Home Page of the website that they are "Almost out of construction".
What does "almost" mean?
How long is almost?
It seems like it means a very long time. How long has the site been up?
But, the one thing that is not under construction...is the Trumpet Subscription section.
Oh well, I'm just typing away...and making mountains out of mole hills, right?
It's no big deal that even though a person can look up a New Testament Christian Churches of America in each state they are located in...if you want to contact the local preacher via email, you cannot. All roads lead back to Graham.
When I had questions to ask of the Pastor and his associates at the church we've been attending and I didn't want them to put a face to the person who was asking the question...they had the email address of the pastor of that local church with whom I could get in touch. He answered the questions to my satisfaction and I didn't have to feel put on the spot.
If you ask a question of any of the Davis wannabes in NTCC, you will very likely be humiliated if they don't know the answer...or if you are questioning one of their homemade doctrines...doctrines which are suspiciously missing from their website. Why is that? Are they ashamed to just state plainly what they believe...all of their beliefs which they claim set them apart...and are directed by God?
If you believe it is from God, then why not make it plain as day on your website?
Why deceive people that way?
IF YOU'VE BEEN INVITED TO THIS CHURCH...their website tells you little to nothing about them.
Is there any preacher in this organization who will question Kekel or Davis or Olson as to why these things are missing from the website?
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tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 850
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.7.253
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 3:53 am: |
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According to the Official Website:
There is no longer a church in Minnesota.
There is no longer a church in Rapid City, SD
Two of the three overseers are now pastoring the two largest churches in the org: Graham and St. Louis.
There are approximately: 117 churches, here and abroad, and simply going by pictures supplied on the website, and deleting the numbers of those pictures which i know to be rentals, not even half of those 117 churches have their own building. That number is based simply by the fact that there are no pictures for these buildings.
There are many rentals.
There is a great number of churches which are meeting in Hotel conference rooms and local Community Centers.
There used to be a Bible school and church in Mindanao...in Cagayan de Oro.
Now there is no picture and it just says to call for information.
I will give the benefit of the doubt here. I know there are many problems with muslims in Mindanao. It could be that they don't want to post a picture of the school and church and address. I'm just giving the benefit of the doubt in this case.
There are a number of churches who post no address for any kind of meeting place, but anyone interested is supposed to call for more information.
Is this really what one would call: BEING ON THE MOVE FOR GOD?
Hardly...and I say that according to Davis' standards.
Maybe he needs to go to these outposts and show them how to do it.
He's been using his same three stories about church building from the sixties long enough. It's time to put it into practice...and show all of these folks who swallow their daily dose of stupid pills exactly how it should be done.
Better yet, have Kekel go into a town and "pioneer" a work and show everyone how to "dig it out" and how it is done.
Show these preachers how it is done. Show them how to keep them coming back for more preaching the manmade doctrines that Davis wants you to "push" onto the local community. After all, had the other churches been doing their jobs...God wouldn't have had to send nTCC in there to save that city.
With a little research, one can find out that there isn't a whole lot going on in this organization...GROWTH-WISE...and I have to tell you that in that I take heart and I am delighted and I thank the Lord.
It's all actually more hopeful than I thought.
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michael_ismyfirstname
New member
Username: michael_ismyfirstname
Post Number: 17
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 72.172.36.242
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 4:12 am: |
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well if the internet is a source of evil, then the more they use it the more they are shooting themselves in the foot. Not the same foot that is stuck in their mouths. Also not the same foot they insert up other peoples butt's for asking such questions tracy. This leaves them with the shaky legs, which are the limbs of the body of Graham. These shaky legs, are like limbs of the tree casting their fruit to the ground, because the fruit is not good enough to partake of the divine nature which comes from the roots of this diseased body (tree). and so the cast off fruit cry because of the disease they intravenously contracted from this body of graham. The disease prevents anything more then lip service. Therefore the soul service they perform is the soul service, and thats what there whole service is about. |
tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 851
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.7.253
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 5:34 am: |
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Please remember...I started this thread with the idea that it is by Davis' own standards that so many of the churches in the organization are not doing well.
There are many fine preachers and preacher's wives in NTCC. They love people and those they are trying to reach with the Gospel are drawn to their love and compassion. It is when the preacher must introduce one of Davis' doctrines or when an overseer or some such person 'comes through' town to preach...that folks are run off.
It is not because they don't want Jesus. They don't want the false doctrine.
I read a few things concerning blessings which have come to certain precious individuals in NTCC. I'm thrilled for them. I pray they are continually blessed by the Lord with miracles.
But, that doesn't take away from the fact that if they start or continue to preach and teach the false doctrines which are the very foundation of this organization, then I pray that people who were once drawn to the love and comopassion of the sincere preacher...will, as most do...turn and high tail it as far away from this crowd as possible.
Very likely, someone will speak to people who attend NtCc and try to warn them to not go there any longer, or the inviduals will end up finding a healthier assembly to fellowship with.
Good people operating within a dangerously structured organization does not take away from the fact that it is still a dangerous place for anyone to come and find rest and growth for their souls.
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michael_ismyfirstname
New member
Username: michael_ismyfirstname
Post Number: 18
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 72.172.36.242
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 8:09 am: |
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I applaud what you have said. Thank you tracy |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 1634
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.196.65.238
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 11:18 am: |
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'I could care less if those who want to share Christ just wander from house to house having Bible studies, etc. I think it is safer for the public at large if NTCC preachers conduct themselves that way.'
Delightful, insightfull...
This is actually the truer pattern of Scripture for our 'assembling together'.
I do not believe the near-absence of assemblies held in public buildings nor the complete-absence of biblic record or practical instruction on building & soulwinning programs are because the Christians were too poor or persecuted or slothful in 'church business' during the apostles' times to do so!
I believe the 'work of the evangelist' that Paul exhorted the bishop Timothy to do was centered around this very thing:
Being in the public at large as a witness (NOT to be a business/scheming inviter), and especially visiting (by invitation or inspiration) from house to house to fellowship in the love and the Word of God.
The strength of the church is strong Christian households, which begins with home assembling and ministering.
I believe Paul exhorted Timothy the bishop to continue doing the work of an evangelist just so he would NOT centralize the saints' assembling around his own pulpit and building, becoming a type of seated magistrate and lord holding services and judgments over the people as personal attendees and slaves to his person and program: just like it is with the DAVIS types.
"...a "full schedule" and to have an actual building in which the "unsuspecting" can come to congregate."
Scripture also shows a LIMITED gathering of the whole church, which became a seemingly accepted tradition of once weekly, or 'on the Lord's day' (Rev 1:10). 'Going out to church' was supposed to be a special occasion like going out to eat, because the household has always been intended by God to be the PRIMARY place of prayer AND assembly for worship and ministry (Deut 11:18-21). One of the first things to go in a centralized and dominating ministry is home ministry, even to the point of degrading and mocking it. In this light the hallmark sign of a personal pastoral cult is a church sign (and card) with a FULL SCHEDULE!
This is the true pattern of assembling ourselves that we are not to forsake, which makes for individually and collectively strong Christians in the Word, love, life, and LIBERTY of God: we are ALL kings and priests unto God by Jesus Christ, and every believing head of house has the Scriptural duty and responsibility to pray and minister the Word of God IN their own homes with their own children. To not be a minister in your own home is to NEGLECT your Christian and spiritual duty before the Lord. You open yourself and your loved ones up to wolves in soulwinners' suits and clothing!
NEVER in the New Testament (nor Old) do we see God's called priests, ministers, prophets, apostles & Jesus Himself becoming isolated magistrates over their own local assembly areas, where they cease or rarely go out into the public at large making themselves and their God available to whosoever may wish to hear and see the truth!
To cease to do the work of an evangelist in the public at large and from house to house is to cease to be a free & open minister of Christ, and to become an isolated & costly builder of one's own church domain! |
tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 852
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.13.211
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 12:14 pm: |
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Exactly Derrick.
If the folks in nTCc were set free to preach and teach and go and do as God REALLY leads them...who knows what good can be done for His kingdom, instead of one man's kingdom. |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1286
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 216.67.75.99
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 5:58 pm: |
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"...not even half of those 117 churches have their own building."
Actually, Tracy, NONE of those churches "have their own building." As we know, all real estate is held by the organization, and the local assembly (who generally has paid for it) has zilch to do with its disposition. It doesn't even have the slightest influence over who the next pastor will be, and are devoid of power to fire the current one should he prove to be an abusive tyrant.
Like you said, "all roads lead to Graham." All authority emanates from Graham, too. |
tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 853
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.13.211
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 6:02 pm: |
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You got me there. |
pelfdaddy
Advanced Member
Username: pelfdaddy
Post Number: 852
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 166.214.144.215
| | Posted on Saturday, October 13, 2007 - 11:29 pm: |
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I don't care WHAT you think, 'cause if you don't like it, you can just GET OUT. God put me here, not you! Same door you came in...you can leave out of--I don't wanna hear your complainin'--you don't like what GOD IS DOIN'? GET OUT!!
--Roger Davis, God's Man |
tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 859
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.13.211
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 1:55 pm: |
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 \OOOPPPSS...
I must needs make a correction to my post #845 above. Gandy is NOT the pastor in Fayetteville, but he is the "pastor" in Jacksonville, NC.
thanks |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 1641
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.197.113.56
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 5:50 am: |
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..."all real estate is held by the organization"...
I've often wondered if this might not be the double-edged sword that ultimately does them in: By it they have gained their wealth, and by it they may lose it... even faster.
NTCC is liable for ALL those leases from storefronts to buildings. Thus far they have feverishly kept such pulpits filled and pushing the local members to keep paying for it all. (This is what Davis calls 'paying for itself' in his ministry.)
So, if a building is actually purchased or paid off, then Davis' family now 'owns' them, but if not, then NTCC is liable for them. I believe very few are owned.
What if there is an exodus of local preachers to pay for the leases and bank notes, and no replacements can be generated by Davis? Then all that money stored up in family wealth will be sucked right out of the Corporate office to pay off all those storefront leases and building purchases.
When Davis is dead and gone, this could likely happen, and the in-law gets stuck with the bill (how poetic).
" And every one that heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them not, shall be likened unto a foolish man, which built his house upon the sand: And the rain descended, and the floods came, and the winds blew, and beat upon that house; and it fell: and great was the fall of it." (Matthew 7:26-27)
One thing about inner-corrupted empires from Babylon to Rome: at the last they still appear strong, but then collapse in a moment of time. |
jcbsport2
Junior Member
Username: jcbsport2
Post Number: 33
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 68.109.249.99
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 1:30 pm: |
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If nice church buildings are the standard for growth and prosperity, we need to look no further than the mormons, or catholics. NTCC chooses a more conservative, safe approach to buildings. They would be better off buying or building nice churches. It does not mean they are growing or not growing, that is just their choice. They talk about being about the business, but I do not see much business sence about them. Funny. |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1290
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 206.174.63.132
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 1:43 pm: |
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"NTCC is liable for ALL those leases from storefronts to buildings."
I rented buildings for the church, and no one from NTCC HQ ever signed or even looked at the documents. It is questionable whether they are liable in most cases; it is likely the preacher who rented the building will be on his own when the debt collectors call, unless the org is continuing their efforts in that city, in which case they might wish to protect their reputation. |
jcbsport2
Junior Member
Username: jcbsport2
Post Number: 34
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 68.109.249.99
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 2:10 pm: |
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That is wrong. The church takes all of the money and uses these preachers to the max, then makes them liable if anything goes wrong. That takes the term "chew them up and spit them out" to new levels. |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1291
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 206.174.63.147
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 3:17 pm: |
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The story of the idealistic-but-naive pioneer NTCC minister arriving in town X, working himself half dead, depriving himself and his family of what are considered necessities by most, going deep into debt for the "work of the Lord," and finally suffering the inevitable consequences, is quite common within NTCC. Most of us have our own rendition of this sad tale, with varying degrees of pathos.
I'm not aware of any NTCC bailout programs for such casualties, and no matter how dire the situation, exemption from mandatory tithing will not be authorized (but there is some free stale bread at the Fellowship Hall, once it's been picked over by the elites). |
ctyankee
Intermediate Member
Username: ctyankee
Post Number: 168
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 69.244.208.162
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 4:37 pm: |
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Then the casualties are called back to Graham where they are treated as second class citizens and subjected to verbal putdowns and guilt trips(from the pulpit and classroom) about how they "just aren't leaders" and "can't make it happen" and "didn't do it the way you were taught", etc.
The best bailout program they have is when they finally bailout from NTCC. |
tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 862
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.19.103
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 4:54 pm: |
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ctyankee said:
"The best bailout program they have is when they finally bailout from NTCC."
I say,
Amen and Amen!
Again, based on their own website, most of the preachers in this organization, based on the standards of the Founder..."Just arent leaders" and "can't Make it happen".
Has anyone who has been around a long time, I wonder...ever seen Kekel go dig out a church in a city? Or Johnson? Or Olson? Or Davis, for that matter?
jUST WONDERING |
mark_g
Advanced Member
Username: mark_g
Post Number: 529
Registered: 1-2006
Posted From: 72.201.122.179
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 5:55 pm: |
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"Has anyone who has been around a long time, I wonder...ever seen Kekel go dig out a church in a city? Or Johnson? Or Olson? Or Davis, for that matter?"
JUST WONDERING
I've thought the same thing on occasion. I've heard a lot of "Puff and Fluff" and a lot of talk.
I've heard stories about RWD in the Philipines, But we are talking 40+ years ago. Mom and Pop Gaylord started Churches up until the time that they couldn't because Pop's health was declining.
To be fair, I did hear that Johnson started the work in Tillicum though.
If you can't walk the walk, don't talk the talk is what I say. |
tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 866
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.19.103
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 6:29 pm: |
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I understand what you are saying Mark.
But, a lot of men and women have gone out and "started" works.
Why are there so many administrative wonks in NTCC anyway?
Why don't some of these men who "know how to do it and who are real leaders"...GO and SHOW?
Let's get a real "look-see" at what these men can really "do for God".
I'm not talking about these overseers who roam around the universe in RV's and pull into town laying burdens on the local pastors because they aren't "Leader" enough to get their own crazy RV space.
They rely on the pastor to haul them around everywhere...and, as those of us know...there are not a lot of RV parks in the citified areas where it is recommended to start a church...
...you have to drive out to the boonies to "be there" when the "man of God" pulls in.
Then you have to drive back. Then back again to drive them around. Then back again after service.
Sometimes in one day, the pastor and his family can make as many as three trips "there and back" to the RV site, which can be up to 45 minutes away...each way. Does that make a lick of sense? Is that good use of a Sunday afternoon David? Is that good use of God's money when gas has been hovering at 3 bucks since Katrina?
If all it takes to be an overseer is to be a butt kisser and to have "started" a church...then oh man...anyone can be an overseer.
What do they do when they come to town anyway?
Preach a little "been there, heard that" message?
Allow you to pay their way (and to be fair...some will not allow you to buy their meals)
But, who are they and what in the world are they there for?
If having Overseers tour the countryside made a bit of difference, then the churches in NTCC should be overflowing into the streets. But, alas, that is not the case.
I noticed that two of the three Overseers are now pastoring churches. That should bring a huge sigh from the preachers and their families...a few less mouths to feed.
Why doesn't the Overseer rent his own vehicle? Then the pastor doesn't have to drive around picking people up for church and haul them to and from the RV park. Also, there was an Overseer who came through Virginia...and he was hauling a vehicle. Do you think he used it? No...why have the stupid thing?
No sense.
Stupid-pill city.
When you boil Davis' stories down to any kind of substance of church building, you are left with a little scum clinging dearly to the sides of the pot. It's the same couple of stories told from different angles and we heard them again and again and again.
That's why you see heads bobbing in his services. It's the same old, same old...and he takes more than two hours to say it...and he thinks we should consider ourselves blessed for having the privilege to sit through it.
I, for one, appreciate dearly the work and sweat and tears and sacrifices of the men and women and their families who are hammering it out there "in the field"... Doing without while Davis lives behind his "uppity" gate (see Gabcast #5) and Kekel zooms around the Puget Sound Region in his sports car. Let me revise that...I appreciate those who are doing it, as we were, for the Lord and His kingdom. But, time is on the Lord's side...because eventually, most leave NTCC. Not many grow old there. Look around. Don't take my word for it. |
tracy_pelfrey
Advanced Member
Username: tracy_pelfrey
Post Number: 867
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 76.211.19.103
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 6:33 pm: |
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to continue:
How many preacher's wives are medicated for psychological problems...??? for crying out loud, there is one lady who has trouble being around people...and she's a pastor's wife. what gives?
How many preachers are on medicine for their bi-polar problems?
How many families have had their vehicles repossessed over the years?
How many have had to go to the local food bank?
How many have to go give of their very blood (their Plasma) so that they can show themselves to be a leader by making it to the conference?
How many have "praised the Lord" because they had to quit their job to go to conference because their boss needed someone who was willing to work and not take off two weeks during the year and take off for "Revivals" (what a joke)and on Saturdays and on WEdnesdays and Thursdays and blah, blah, blah.
You got fired because you are worthless to the boss man if you aren't there...it isn't something to glory in. Davis makes a big hooey deal by having these men stand up in conference in front of everyone to show how idiotic they are for getting fired or for quitting...when they owe bills, etc...just to go to a conference to hear the same thing they heard last time.
Then, that same man will fall behind in his bills and he'll show up to Davis' class or to the daytime "teachings" at conference and Davis will rip him a new one... and others like him...because they don't save their money and because they owe.
It's a vicious cycle. and, it is viscious and it is planned to be that way.
That is the psychological coercion...to have some knucklehead stand up and shower him with praise because he was foolish enough to lose his job when he couldn't afford it. Because the knothead put Davis before his own basic comfort and before his own basic necessities and those of his family.
Real Leadership.
I'm sure Trump is knocking on your door to tap into that "leadership ability".
Trump...he's just a Sinner Friend...what does he know? He works hard for his money...what he should do is start a so-called non-profit...to profit from. |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1292
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 209.112.181.161
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 6:40 pm: |
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I believe that Pop Gaylord started the "work" in Tillicum, and was followed there by Johnson.
I did hear bro Johnson relate an incident from the early days when he was trying to pioneer in Arkansas in an old schoolhouse; it was the typical broke preacher tale in which RW was coming to town and they didn't have anything to eat, but providentially he ran over a rabbit and ended up serving roadkill stew (Glory to God!). But like most of NTCC's pioneering efforts, the work apparently foundered, so he was recalled to HQ for a bigger and better role.
Too bad he didn't take advantage of the bailout program cited by ctyankee. |
still_in_pain
Member
Username: still_in_pain
Post Number: 87
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 24.22.186.75
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 9:23 pm: |
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Tracy said:
How many preachers are on medicine for their bi-polar problems?
How many families have had their vehicles repossessed over the years?
How many have had to go to the local food bank?
_________________________________________________
Me, me and me!!
And you want to know the funny part?
I'm thinking of going back! |
victorjohanson
Senior Member
Username: victorjohanson
Post Number: 1293
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 206.174.63.132
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 9:30 pm: |
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"And you want to know the funny part?
I'm thinking of going back!"
That must be when you're off your meds. |
ctyankee
Intermediate Member
Username: ctyankee
Post Number: 169
Registered: 4-2007
Posted From: 69.244.208.162
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 10:28 pm: |
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If you're "still in pain", why do you want more PAIN? |
mklo
Advanced Member
Username: mklo
Post Number: 600
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 67.185.114.218
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 1:04 am: |
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Lucky you. I CAN'T go back because I was disfellowshipped.
 |
still_in_pain
Member
Username: still_in_pain
Post Number: 89
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 24.22.186.75
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 4:17 am: |
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I'm still trying to fry the same ole demons.
NTCC is the only right church. If God wanted you somewhere else he wouldn't have sent you to NTCC.
And yes, I am off my meds and I am Manicing pretty bad, I keep having the thought that I might end up in Prison for some reason. I can't sleep, my mind races all the time. I was in the Army I had a good job (Military Police officer) I wanted to be a Cop when I got out of the military but somewhere along the line NTCC slithered their way into my life. They got me thinking I could be greater then this, God has a plan for me, they started talking about the greatness of it all (this christian life within the wall) So I set off on this great quest to become Wonderboy, the Minister from God!
I put off trying to persue my life long dream of becoming a Police Officer outside the military, and wouldn't you know it, I even lost my desire for it commpletely! After all Wonderboy, the minister from God! was always being spoonfed, then pushed, then CRAMMED down my throat.
To make a long story short (and there are alot more details) Here I am 45 yrs. old I have MS and Bi-polar disorder I've been deemed Unemployable by the Government and I wasted 20 yrs. of my life pursuing "WONDERBOY, THE MINISTER FROM GOD!!". And now I can't be a minister or a cop, sheeesh, I can't even work!
Do you all get what I'm saying??
Society dosen't want me, and now according to "The judge behind the Wall" God dosen't want me either!
(lame duck) Someone who cannot win but stays in the game anyway! |
letgodbetrue
Intermediate Member
Username: letgodbetrue
Post Number: 397
Registered: 6-2005
Posted From: 71.75.63.253
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 9:36 am: |
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Rest assured, still_in_pain. God wants you! Jesus went all the way to the cross for you. Your soul was blood bought...something precious for something precious. After all that, God is not going to cast you off when you're sick and need Him the most.
From a child, I've seen a lot hypocrisy in the church world. But this I know: God is genuine and God is love. This has kept me sane. And it can be your buoy in troubled waters.
God doesn't have any castoffs.
If you wish, email me at: anweury at yahoo dot com
Angela |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 1660
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.196.166.184
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 1:31 pm: |
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"Has anyone who has been around a long time, I wonder...ever seen Kekel go dig out a church in a city? Or Johnson? Or Olson? Or Davis, for that matter?" Tracey
Kekel did his obligatory floor-time as the in-law inheritor of the Company... and so long as the daughter keeps him, he'll have it.
(Giving up spouses due to 'compromise' & disloyalty is a long-time practise now. So, all the daughter has to do is decide she doesn't want Kekel anymore, and the campaign he has used on others will commense from Dad on down, and the Kid (in-law) will get the message and leave, because he WELL knows that Davis don't give up in HIS Organization until HIS will is done. Period. He owns it. He rules it.) |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 1661
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.196.166.184
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 2:18 pm: |
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"Why are there so many administrative wonks in NTCC anyway?" Tracey
Administration is Davis' love of life qualifications to be a great preacher, because they make great businessmen & church-builders.
Having good pulpiteers but not good administrators was one of Davis' main complaints for a lack of sustained organizational growth.
He said, privately, that Kekel was to be in line for the Top Slot, because the Organization needed a good Administrator.
And we find in Scripture that the ONLY administration God has authorized in His church by His ministers is that of overseeing the common collection and distribution of charity for the poor saints (2 Cor 9:12)
All the paperwork, records & book-keeping that goes along with Davis' business is the inevitable Administration necessary for a man-made business Empire in God's ministry and church. From the soulwinner's sheet to the preacher's # reports to the Family's $ reciept: None of it is of God, but all of man.
The Father's business is not the 'People Business' but the Loving People Business!' |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 1662
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.196.166.184
| | Posted on Wednesday, October 17, 2007 - 3:02 pm: |
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"But, who are they (overseers) and what in the world are they there for?" Tracey
They are Davis' walk-around managers, who are there to help enforce NTCC church discipline, which is? Whatever Davis at present says it is.
So far as their 'support' along the way, like their 'business' there in the first place (Did anyone know Davis was there first?), it is a particularly filthy corruption of the Scriptural doctrine and record for God's travelling ministers.
God's ministers are not pursuing profit for themselves, but truly do live of the gospel they preach by the cheerful giving of the believers, and so they are normally in need of help from the saints along their way. Whether in housing, in food, or in expense (3 John 5-8).
But even as a 'brother' rides for free to work under the banner of charity , while saving his own money in the bank, so do these corrupted managers of Davis' filthy dream-business 'wisely' save up their own wealth on the backs of the poor saints, as they go to lord it over their pulpits and lives!
Is that not in absolute opposition to God's ministerial way?? Thus are they indeed antichrists who have gone out into the church world away from God's & the apostles' ministerial manner (1 John 2:18-19), that they might profit withal by evil works contrary to Christian edification and help!
And so like the apostle John, you just got to wonder at the folly of ministerially-blind Christian folks like we were, and others still are, to allow false-Leaders like Davis and his Company Men to lord, fleece, and push them into conditions completely against Jesus and His express will. Even to the point of admiring how plainly and openly they go about such dirty business for the express purpose of success, despite all the abundance of Scripture and church-history to give clear warning against it!
'So he carried me away in the spirit into the wilderness: and I saw a woman sit upon a scarlet coloured beast, full of names of blasphemy, having seven heads and ten horns. And the woman was arrayed in purple and scarlet colour, and decked with gold and precious stones and pearls, having a golden cup in her hand full of abominations and filthiness of her fornication: And upon her forehead was a name written, MYSTERY, BABYLON THE GREAT, THE MOTHER OF HARLOTS AND ABOMINATIONS OF THE EARTH. And I saw the woman drunken with the blood of the saints, and with the blood of the martyrs of Jesus: and when I saw her, I wondered with great admiration.' (Rev 17:3-6)
They who are against this warning against they who work against Christian welfare are for Jesus' enemies, not His friends... |
charger
New member
Username: charger
Post Number: 19
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 71.38.28.127
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 12:25 am: |
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Let me drag this old post back up to the top. From what I am told there are about 400 soul winners in Graham. 200 teams. If each team on a blitz hits 100 doors, that is 20,000 invitations in one week.
There is no better measuring stick for how the program works then Graham. So how is it going up there? Where are all of the good reports from Graham of all the souls being won and the rapid growth that comes with putting the program to work?
Does anyone know if Graham has more members now then it did a month ago, or six months ago, or a year ago? I wonder how many students have gone to seminary from being reached in Graham?
I remember about 4 or 5 years ago when they broke 1200 in Graham. Are they running 5 or 6 thousand yet? Hey a crowd begets a crowd remember.
I am not throwing stones here. I am just looking at the results. What do we see? Does the program work as great as we have been lead to believe? I think the answer is visible in Graham. Hey is Graham really a mega church anyway? What is the attendance threshold for a mega church? I am going to try to find that answer right now. |
charger
New member
Username: charger
Post Number: 20
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 71.38.28.127
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 12:29 am: |
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Okay, I just answered my own question on mega churches, they have an attendance of 2000+. So now let me ask again, Is Graham a Mega church yet? |
bro_derrick
Senior Member
Username: bro_derrick
Post Number: 1957
Registered: 9-2005
Posted From: 70.196.218.104
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 3:01 pm: |
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Sure it is. MEGA being the word for 'great', and so just refer back to Rev 17:5.
Although Synagogue of Satan would be more like it, where even now some good Christians souls are in the process of being devoured, I mean trained... well, the same thing at Davis' hands.
Graham's sucking black-hole existence was the big-secret fraud back in the heydey of Davis' push for growth and railing condemnation against failures. He devoured all the other local churches (except Woodbrook and Seattle) in order just to sustain even numbers, and then insured more local Christians were funneled to Graham for school, as well as getting low- or no-numbers ministers to return.
It's all a part of Davis' own declaration of personal honor and success, that he has never, ever, and never, ever shall ever leave ANY church of his 'on-the-down'.
And you really have to admire him for it, too. Just like John did with another really great builder of organized churches of the Christian sort. |
charger
New member
Username: charger
Post Number: 23
Registered: 12-2007
Posted From: 71.38.28.127
| | Posted on Monday, December 24, 2007 - 6:07 pm: |
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Anothet small fact. The average mega-church has an attendace of 3,857. I think that is a lot more than Graham's record attendance.
As a matter of fact the only record that NTCC seems to be setting these days is Departures. I use to say that there were more coming than going. I do not think that is true anymore.
IS THE PROGRAM REALLY WORKING? WHERE HAS IT WORKED? How many full time preachers are there in the org? |
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