| Author | Message | ||
     lightsout Junior Member Username: lightsout Post Number: 42 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 76.100.142.73 |
http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071005.wjesuschurch0610/BNStory/International/home Wow this is great! | ||
| gcc_1981_grad Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 53 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.52.180.108 |
excellent | ||
| wagener84 Member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 88 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 199.214.192.50 |
From my perspective, this article is fair, honest, and accurate journalism. I challenge anyone to dispute ,with supporting evidence, the facts as laid out in this article. In considering some of the sources and their close affiliation with the "Mothers", this article is just about bang on. Well done. | ||
| survivor1101 New member Username: survivor1101 Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 207.112.105.233 |
Yes, Michael is my hero. There is no doubt that he has been accurate, and honest from the start of this whole thing. And just to remind the trolls, the Globe and Mail factchecks EVERYTHING AND runs it by lawyers before it is published. Michael is my hero! | ||
| kmiller1610 New member Username: kmiller1610 Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 198.203.193.250 |
I would like to add a couple of minor facts to the article's timeline and question one of the points made in the piece. First of all, I was in Darmstadt at the Evangelical Sisterhood in 1968. At that time and just before Judy left Darmstadt, the sisterhood at Rock Harbor Manor was called "The Little Sisterhood of Mary." That's a journalistic point. The other point is related to Kanaan itself. I stayed with the Brothers there (summer "intern" program) and was told a few things that I thought were a bit over the top by one of the fairly new brothers (not Peter Andersen). A year later that brother sought me out in the States to ask my forgiveness for what he had said. Besides that one thing, I personally saw no evidence of any light sessions or negativity at all. I realize that Kanaan is lumped together with COJ and GCC, but I did not experience it in my 6 weeks there. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 85 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
My wife was a Sister of Mary for 15 years. The Sisters' of Mary weekly internal light sessions in Darmstadt were brutal, several-hour-long events. One Sister could be raked over the coals for hours by the Mothers and other Sisters. They would often tell you things about yourself that weren't even true, and you were not allowed to defend yourself. The Sisters of Mary were very good at not letting the outside world know what went on behind the walls. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 86 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
My wife was a Sister of Mary for 15 years. The Sisters' of Mary weekly internal light sessions in Darmstadt were brutal, several-hour-long events. One Sister could be raked over the coals for hours by the Mothers and other Sisters. They would often tell you things about yourself that weren't even true, and you were not allowed to defend yourself. The Sisters of Mary were very good at not letting the outside world know what went on behind the walls. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 87 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
My wife was a Sister of Mary for 15 years. The Sisters' of Mary weekly internal light sessions in Darmstadt were brutal, several-hour-long events. One Sister could be raked over the coals for hours by the Mothers and other Sisters. They would often tell you things about yourself that weren't even true, and you were not allowed to defend yourself. The Sisters of Mary were very good at not letting the outside world know what went on behind the walls. | ||
| kmiller1610 New member Username: kmiller1610 Post Number: 9 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 76.28.74.76 |
Small tip. When you pose your message, even though the progress bar is still filling, click the forum button at the top and go back to the stream you were in and your message will be there. If you keep hitting the submit button, you'll get mutltiples. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 88 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
Thanks. I kept getting the message "server error." kmiller, I think I may have known your parents from back in the 60s in CT. A. & G.: very pleasant couple; A. had a great sense of humor. | ||
| kmiller1610 New member Username: kmiller1610 Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 76.28.74.76 |
Really? At the Barn or somewhere else? Dad was (still is) a singer. And of course, the Barn also had its C&J phase. The church was pretty hard hit by people going to the COJ, leaving and folks dying: My mom, Chris Wall and Jean Claire McCormick, 3 prominent women in the church died in a space of less than 5 years. Of course, it's sort of conspiracy theory stuff, but a lot of people felt that you were letting C&J down when you left and that self loathing thing can't be good for your health. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 89 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
I was invted to your parents home for dinner once when I was attending Trinity College. I remember they were at first interested in the CoJ, then stopped going, and that your mom died soon after that. I remember both your parents as being such fine people. Sorry about your mom. Give my regards to your dad please. | ||
| from_rochester New member Username: from_rochester Post Number: 5 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.128.168.180 |
Did anyone have an experience of faith healing with Cay or Judy? I had a very intense experience when they prayed for my recovery from surgery as a child. I am now questioning the physical sensations I felt and wondering if there was some theatre involved, or if it was real. pandersen, do you have any ideas on this? Thanks! | ||
| poormanspudding New member Username: poormanspudding Post Number: 24 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
PAnderson -- Could you also comment on Judy's gift of discernment? You know how she would say "what happened to you when you were 5"?. I saw this happen frequently and it always seemed to unlock something important psychologically in the person's life. This happened to me, too and it did have an important impact on my life as far as understanding what made me tick. Can you comment on this? | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 90 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
poormanspudding, I've often thought about Judy's "gift of discernment" over the years. She did have an uncanny ability to "know" things. I have a couple of thoughts. 1) Most of us had dramatic or even traumatic things happen in our childhood. This "aha"-moment when Judy would say these things could have been just sheer luck. 2) It also may be not unlike people's reaction when they have their palms read. One of the moderators of the TV show 60 Minutes told once how at college he used to read people's palms for fun. It seems that no matter how he interpreted them, even doing the total opposite of traditional palm-readers, he was always "right on the money" with what he told his subjects. Judy was a very dynamic personality; you wanted her to be right in what she said. You wanted to hear that God knew about your childhood pain. 3) I wouldn't exclude that her gift was of an occult nature. | ||
| late_lights Junior Member Username: late_lights Post Number: 34 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 |
While I know not everything on Wikipedia is fact, this could also be a possible explination... (second paragraph mainly) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Popoff | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 91 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
I don't think Judy's methods were that sophisticated, although I wouldn't have put it past her. I think I would have known about that had it happened in that fashion. It was more about being "psychic," with a good smattering of luck. Pretty creepy stuff, actually. | ||
| late_lights Junior Member Username: late_lights Post Number: 35 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 |
Based on the last Globe article that mentioned the "modern electronic equipment that allows them to hear, and in some places see, everything that goes on in the 10-acre compound" it doesn't seem that implausable. However, my personal knowledge of the coj is pretty limited, so it's just a theory | ||
| susan_margaret New member Username: susan_margaret Post Number: 21 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.235.189.173 |
Dear Panderson, My mom took my brothers and me to see Catherine Kuhlman in Pittsburg in the early 70s. She got debunked too. An old crippled guy was sitting near us & remember they wouldn't let him go down to the altar. I read that Cay passed away & the Mrs Pugsley is the new leader down there. What is Cay doing now? She should lend herself out for some science research. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 92 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
late_lights, all that bugging equipment was installed years after Judy had already demonstrated great psychic skills with reading others' pasts. Whether after they installed all the microphones, her skills got better - that may well be. susan_margaret, Judy retired years ago under what was rumoured to be a palace coup. I think the elite there felt she was a liability. She was given a pension by the CoJ and lives in one of the houses there. I understand that she has been asking forgiveness of those who come to see her. That's a good sign. I know it was my mother who was the bad apple. Judy was at heart quite good-natured and generous. Heidi felt that way about her too, even though Judy treated her very badly at times. Yes, I'm told Betty Patterson Pugsley is the leader. And The Force is with her. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 93 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 |
from_rochester, I honestly haven't figured it out Judy's "powers." Her hands would vibrate a bit while she prayed for you and I know people felt they were healed. Catherine Kuhlmann also apparently had some kind of telekinetic powers - where she would cause people to be "slain in the spirit" just by waving her arm in front of them. There is a practice in ancient Chinese medicine where the "healer" rubs their hands together vigorously for a few minutes and then places them on the subject. There seems to be a healing effect from this. I don't pretend to understand these forces and how they operate. I just know that with Cay and Judy ultimately they were misused to a sinister end. | ||
| susan_margaret New member Username: susan_margaret Post Number: 23 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.235.189.173 |
This is so fascinating, thank-you Panderson. | ||
| from_rochester New member Username: from_rochester Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.128.168.180 |
Thank you for your response, panderson. What I felt was more than a vibration, it was like a cold electric current running from her hands through my body, like the feeling you get when you get an electrical shock. I once had a roomate who was into wicca, and I told him about this experience, and he said that in pagan lingo, it is called "raising power." He thought that it was possible to do -- though I was skeptical that it would work on someone who was not entranced. Thank you so much for your insight into all of this. I can't tell you how much you have helped me make sense of my childhood -- thank you for having the courage to speak to the press about all of this as well. | ||
| iwonderwhy New member Username: iwonderwhy Post Number: 12 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 88.191.22.62 |
I also have difficulty understanding how God would have allowed these powerful, seemingly spiritual gifts to have been used to draw people into such an ungodly way of life. I am beginning to understand that Judy's "discernment" had been used to target and then exploit people's weak spots and vulnerabilities. I think that is why so many otherwise capable people were trapped in the CoJ's way of thinking. Do you think that C + J did this purposefully, or did it just evolve? | ||
| strength Member Username: strength Post Number: 95 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.71.20.122 |
wow, that's a total vow. Can you tell us more about when and where it would be said? And who could say this vow? | ||
| onshore Member Username: onshore Post Number: 77 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 75.69.230.104 |
This is a very revealing article and brings much of the truth out about the cult mentality. The Cay and Judy show is over....and into the light for all to see. Wow....This is one of the worst cults out there. Is ther help for those still suffering from it's effects and help for those still in? Heather | ||
| adelicatebalance New member Username: adelicatebalance Post Number: 19 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
I thought the following would be an interesting addition to the “Mothers of Invention” G & M story. Some at GCC took these vows as Oblates or non-resident members of the Community of Jesus. Below is the text of the vows which were said by the individual(s) at vow services which were held periodically in the Community of Jesus chapel. (circa early to mid 1990’s). "I renew my vow of obedience to God the Father, the Son and the Holy Spirit. This vow I express in my obedience to the call of God upon my life: to live a life of obedience, love, truth, yieldedness and sacrifices as expressed in my daily life as a called member of the Community of Jesus. I further express my desire to be wholly Christ’s by taking the vow of conversion. As part of this vow, I promise, with the grace and help of God, to let the Holy Spirit, with the help of my spiritual Mothers, and brothers and sisters, correct, admonish, chastise and discipline me according to the disciplines which are deemed most beneficial for the sanctification of my soul. It is my heart’s desire to be perfected in Christ Jesus, and formed into that image of Him which is His perfect will, desire and eternal purpose for me. I also promise to live in the same manner with all the members of the Community of Jesus, in being a vessel of Christ’s truth to them for the well-being of their souls. I promise as a part of my vow of Conversion to live in the light together with the called members of the Community of Jesus, being both a giver and recipient of the truth, which is intended to put my carnal, flesh life to death, and to build the spiritual life of Jesus Christ within me. All this that I may live in Him and He in me. As Paul said, “I have been crucified with Christ – [in Him] I have shared His crucifixion; it is no longer I who live, but Christ, the Messiah, lives in me; and the life I now live in the body I live by faith by adherence to and reliance on and [complete] trust in the Son of God, who loved me and gave Himself up for me”. I also take the vow of stability, gladly counting it a privilege to make this land of Rock Harbor, Orleans, MA, my life’s home. This I do with joy and thanksgiving. | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 90 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 74.46.213.57 |
WOW! Thank you so much for sharing that! | ||
| kmiller1610 New member Username: kmiller1610 Post Number: 17 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 199.248.171.250 |
Sounds strangely familiar. I'm sure I've heard it sometime before... Ah yes. Here it is: We are the Borg. surrender We will add distinctiveness to our own. Your culture will adapt to service ours. Resistance is futile Freedom is irrelevant; Self-determination is irrelevant; You must comply. Strength is irrelevant. Death is irrelevant. Your defensive capabilities are unable to withstand us. Resistance is futile. Your life, as it has been, is over. From this time forward, you will service us. | ||
| rozpriceenglish Intermediate Member Username: rozpriceenglish Post Number: 120 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 172.165.72.117 |
That vow gave me goosebumps - talk about abdicating all personal responsibility and power... The physical act of speaking those words would result in a loss of personal 'power', the spiritual act of 'praying' those words, in my mind, would constitute a reaction similar to casting a circle and calling a spell. Talk about misuse of divine intent... | ||
| dream_truth Senior Member Username: dream_truth Post Number: 1323 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 71.235.107.213 |
hahah kmiller...how unnervingly appropriate | ||
| survivor1101 New member Username: survivor1101 Post Number: 20 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 207.112.105.233 |
Roz, and Kmiller.. chilling |
