| Author | Message | ||
     late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 |
I have a feeling this could either be the "spark" (to quote an old camp fire song) to get the mother of all flame wars going, or else something that ends up totally ignored, so I guess a heads-up to all.... I know compared to many of you, I've arrived rather late to the FactNet party, so you'll have to forgive my ignorance, not to mention there are a ton of threads to go through. But it seems like everything has been kept really vague in all of this. With the exception of two former headmasters (one of whom in my opinion has about as much buisness being linked to any of this as the headmasters who served brief interm periods, but that's for another post), no one has really been accused by name, and details of things that occured seem to be quite general. As far as I have read, there has never been any real direct claims of "x did this to me, on this date." (although it is possible I missed some) either on here, or anywhere else. One of the only claims I have read (both in G&M and on here) was in regards to the boiler posted by Breaker_19_girl (her posts in quotes) "Oops, Sorry Charlie, I was remiss in not calling you and thanking you for sticking my head in the Woodchip boiler and telling me I was going to hell, if I did not change!" But then later on this is posted in the same thread.... "I tried to delete a post, but it would not allow me.... I will rephrase.... and I have replied separately to others.... Yes, Dawnie is correct, he did not stick my head in the fire... I am not sure who HELD my head to the boiler.... Like a cop helps a cuffed prisoner into a crusier..." So now it seems as though FF wasn't the one who did this. I'm sure like many of you, I'm just looking for answers, and one of the qestions I have is why haven't any specific claims against people been made, or why are claims so vauge. Is it because of repressed memories (almost 40 years for some by my math), or for some other reason? | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 81 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.86.85.108 |
Hi, late_lights, I don't think your question is unreasonable. My guess is people would hesitate to name names here on this public forum for a lot of reasons. Just like many choose to use pseudonyms instead of their real name. When dealing with painful experiences such as these, there are lots of personal, legal and and safety issues that would make one cautious at first. Those who have gone to the Bishop or to the OPP obviously are naming names and taking the concrete steps necessary. Maybe some of the folks posting here would be willing to be more specific in a personal e-mail correspondence with you. | ||
| questiongrrl Junior Member Username: questiongrrl Post Number: 37 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 70.48.53.253 |
hello late_lights, good question! my understanding is that the claims named HERE have remained vague because it is a public forum and not everyone will feel comfortable sharing the specific details of their private experiences in this way (some do though). for this reason, as in many other public forums, some people choose to remain anonymous. also, people may be hesitant to post names of individual perpetrators in a public forum for a variety of reasons. i think that type of posting is also discouraged, but i could be wrong about that. i'm sure some people do have difficulty remembering the specifics of certain instances - you mentioned dates, for example. i would imagine that specific dates would be hard to recall after many years. i don't think that the vague nature of much of the posting here should be taken to imply that specific claims have not/are not being made. for instance, from what i understand about the process in the Anglican Church the complaints have to be specific. i'm sure someone else would be better equipped to speak to that. as for the G&M - i have no idea. i would imagine it has something to do with legal concerns over printing an allegation that can't be proved. but again, i'm not an expert. my impression is that the claims made here are more a reflection of the nature of a public forum than anything else. i would imagine that people who have talked to the church, the media or the police have had to be much more specific. | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 250 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.49.73 |
Hi, I told myself to stay away from factnet for a bit. But, I feel like I have to answer this. We cant name specific dates, for instance when I tell the story about my ankle in gym class with JJ, I mention it was grade 9 but I am not sure whether it was May 12 or Nov 16. Get my drift? And, secondly to name names on a forum like this... leaves us open to defamation.... best taken care of in the actual legal realm. Thirdly, I am not saying anything more about the boiler posting.... You took that quote out of context and left specifics out!!!!!! In the real posting I mention that: I wrote it as to say that FF was saying to reporters that he never had a student call and say they were abused only that he and GCC helped them on the road of life. So, it was meant to say "as if someone would call and thank him for abuse" Seriously Late lights: Now, I know who you are and why you are sniffing around. I think you and I had a dialogue after the ceremony. But, you should know if you are going to quote someone .. get the quote right. Plus, keep sniffing I can think of in my mind right now specific postings naming specific people! The internet has always used user names. Many have including myself said our real names.... So, sir GET A GRIP! You have also been invited to e-mail me privately and given my e-mail in another thread. So, if you are so curious... do it! I googled you! I just had to think before I responded..... | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 251 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.49.73 |
question girl: E-mail me.... lianeross@porchlight.ca | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 |
I took the quote from this post in the "Father Farnsworths Apology???? His View are online thread" Posted on Tuesday, September 11, 2007 - 2:16 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- "While he said no former student has called to confront him about the abuse allegations, several have phoned to thank the school for the impact on their lives" Oops, Sorry Charlie, I was remiss in not calling you and thanking you for sticking my head in the Woodchip boiler and telling me I was going to hell, if I did not change! Because, that defintely had an impact on my life!!" Posted on Tuesday, September 18, 2007 - 11:50 pm: -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I tried to delete a post, but it would not allow me.... I will rephrase.... and I have replied separately to others.... Yes, Dawnie is correct, he did not stick my head in the fire... I am not sure who HELD my head to the boiler.... Like a cop helps a cuffed prisoner into a crusier... Primarily my statement was directed at the fact that people have called to thank him for guiding their lives and not report abuse... I was thinking like people are going to thank him for abuse....." ________________________________________________ I'm not trying to take your quotes out of context, or paint you in a bad light, I'm just unclear about who was actually involved. (please read below for more on this). Once I heard about G&M showing up at the closing weekend, I kept to myself, so I'm quite sure I am not who you think I am. However I do appreciate the offer to e-mail privately, but I don't think I'm quite ready for that yet. The truth is, as much as I had thought I had made my mind up about all of this, I still have no idea what to think. I started going to GCC in kindergarden, so being there that long, a lot of the staff were like family to me. I was put on D more then once, and I probably had just as much trouble fitting in gr. 7 on at GCC as I did in the outside world after I left. While I would never have classified anything that happend as abuse, I would hate to think that members of the GCC staff who I looked up to would be directly involved. Like many others here, I'm just trying to piece together what has happend. Thanks to everyone who've posted. It helps  | ||
| tmw Member Username: tmw Post Number: 70 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.49.85.133 |
I find it convenient that you keep targeting Lianne's posts, and yet negate Roz Price English posts saying that she did indeed attempt to speak with FF and he refused because she wanted someone else (an outsider) there to bear witness. I also find it convenient that you have chosen to negate the fact that FF did indeed show up at quiet_girls house and leave a prayer card on day two of the media fall out....knowing exactly who she was. Late_lights...if you are who I think you are (we walked to the orchard together) I am well aware of your opinon and have chosen to agree to disagree with you. I recognise the fact that you can't see (or perhaps choose not to see) what happened to others, but if a tree falls in the forest and nobody is around to hear it does it make a sound?? Think about it. You will not convince me, or anyone else that it didn't happen, or it wasn't as bad as we thought...let it go | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.101.55.104 |
I'm really not sure who you both seem to think I am, or whose posts you have been confusing with mine, but I can assure you, I don't know either of you, as I didn't walk to the orchard, or talk to anyone after the dinner. I also only brought up one of Liane's posts, and haven't mentioned Roz Price at all, so I'm not really sure how to respond to the rest of your post tmw | ||
| sheilac Intermediate Member Username: sheilac Post Number: 109 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.54.17.199 |
I believe that the complaints that I and a number of others have made to the relevant authorities (the Bishop, the OPP) are *very* specific. You are not a relevant authority, late_lights. No one has to justify themselves to you. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 82 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.86.85.108 |
Well said, sheilac. In fact I woudl be very careful with late_lights. His long posting about breaker_19 sounds like a lawyer in discovery mode. | ||
| poormanspudding New member Username: poormanspudding Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 99.232.177.62 |
Sheilac said: "THOSE LASHING OUT THE HARDEST MAY NEED OUR HELP THE MOST" Kate I think what you have said here is bang on. You are not a relevant authority, late_lights. No one has to justify themselves to you. Nice way to "help" Late_Lights, Sheila. | ||
| sheilac Intermediate Member Username: sheilac Post Number: 110 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.54.17.199 |
I'm not trying to get into anyones' face. I'm simply making a statement of fact and I tried to do it in an inoffensive manner. One of the things that bothers me here is that people are being asked to "out" themselves with highly personal information as a way to justify their experiences and presence here in this forum. I encourage everyone who has suffered abuse to go to the relevant authorities with that kind of sensitive information. This is not necessarily the place for it anymore. I "outted" myself only to have it thrown back in my face by people who refuse even to attempt to understand and who seem to think I need to answer to them when, as I say, the only people I intend to answer to anymore, are the relevant authorities. | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.62.21 |
I love how someone can just come on here and say whatever and *poof* instant acceptance and validity. hahahahahahhahaha.....Father Farnsworth LICKED your neck eh Sheila? What a load of garbage - I love knowing the truth. See you at the pearly gates babe - cause you better hope I don't get in there first - because no matter what supposed Mental abuses FSquared is being targetted for - You are outright lying about the facts and having a priest of God (who in no way shape or form is perfect) defrocked. I hope your Wiccan ways can get you in cause if the scenario of the pearly gates is real - you are screwed bigtime and THAT is justice enough for me. You are a piece of work I'll tell you!!! | ||
| rozpriceenglish Intermediate Member Username: rozpriceenglish Post Number: 118 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 172.162.2.180 |
late-lights, i agree with panderson, it is good to look for truth/answers. as this forum has become incredibly public, if you are looking to clarify certain staff or your experience, you might have better luck over at facebook - it's a bit more private and you may have more luck getting answers. for that matter, you also might do well contacting some people directly. also, specific accusations are not made as it would then become a legal matter. to clarify, the person that i tried to bring with me to meet with FF was GCC staff as well as clergy. | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 |
I've never asked anyone to out themselves. I did ask why things were being kept vauge, as (I'm sorry to say panderson) I'm not a lawyer. The farthest I ever made it through law classes was Gr. 11, and we mostly just watched Law and Order episodes (obviously a public school). So I guess it's pretty obvious that I didn't, and still don't understand the difference between stating here and in the G&M that abuse happend at Grenville, and saying who the abusers were. I know people have gone to the bishop, and the OPP. I just don't understand how it could be considered "libel" to publicly say exactly what happend, if all of these steps were taken (but then again it's more then likely Law and Order has failed to adequately explain what exactly "libel" is). I also haven't asked anyone to justify anything to me, or to reveal themselvs to me. I've simply had some questions about everything that's happend, and figured this would be a good place to look for answers. The only reason I singled out the post by breaker_19_girl, was because it was something I remembered reading in the G&M as well as on here, and I was puzzled when she re-worded her post and said she didn't know who had held her head to the boiler (as opposed to in the boiler as was also stated). Although based on the lack of anyone else asking a question about this, it appears to be perhaps more of a misplaced modifier then anything else. | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 254 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.49.10 |
Late Lights: I wish you would reveal yourself to me privately and then perhaps we could talk personally. But, Sheliac and Panderson are right. It is vague here for a reason... It is public... why open up everything on a public forum? Secondly in conjunction with that, you don't need to understand it all if it did not happen to you. It is like you are on a witch hunt and you want the facts about something that should not pertain to your life. Your posture is very un open ... Perhaps that is why myself and others are hesitant with you. Thirdly, the stories about the boiler in the globe were about somebody else and not me. Go back and read them. As for what happened to me that night in the boiler room is as I have posted it and re tracted on legal advice. Because I do not know exactly who was there that night. I just remember what the after effects were to me. Conversations generally go in effect: that you give a bit and I give a bit. But, you are not doing that. You keep stating you want to find out more... I need to know what your motives are for finding out more before I give you more. Were you there that night? Can you help me recall it? Why is it your business anyway? Seriously.... give me that????!!!! When you can answer those questions satisfactory to me then I am open to talking to you. If you had a good and positive expereince at GCC, then man I am so happy for you. I am glad that GCC changed and I reached a conclusion last night that I am heartbroken for those who lost that institution.... As I have always said it is a part of everybodys history and everybodies story. So, we all lost something at the closing. But, I can tell you I gainned a lot of perspective and a lot of healing at the closing as well. I wont out you... if I do not have to. But, you want me to be personal with you and therefore I have the right for you to get personal with me. That is how it works.... Now hopefully this has to be my last posting for a bit and hopefully it clarifys my position. And, if you choose to not take my invite then stop talking about me because you dont have the facts and you dont know the truth. | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 255 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.49.10 |
Dear All, I now see the effects of anger. I wrote that post in anger... and it was supposed to mean: Why would anyone call and say thank you for abusing me. Unfortunately it caught some press...But, hopefully it will stop now. Hopefully I have expressed myselof clearly above. I can not fight anymore..because fighting is not promoting the healing I feel I have. While I am still unclear as to how far I will pursue things. I want it understood, I loved this forum before and I learned about myself and discovered myself here. I hope if I can leave a wish behind that it happens for all of you too.... I adore so many of you... and you can keep in ctct with me.... but, I have to stand back now and live my life. I was consumed for so long... I can't be anymore. respectfully, Breaker 19 girl | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
I have heard stories of physical abuse on this forum and have attempted in my own mind to evaluate if this abuse happened, I am not saying what has been said has been fabricated because I do believe during my time the paddle was used. I do believe that Dan O. pointed fingers at boys chests to cause immediate attention to his goal. I do believe these things may have happened. I just wonder if these alleged abuses, when they happened were abuse by legal criminal definition. Here is why I ask. I went to a public school in Montreal before I went to GCC. In grade 10, I made the decision to break the rules. I knew what the rules were and pushed the limit of my teacher. I found myself in the principals office, palms up, receiving the leather strap. Can I sue for this? How much can I get? If I call the Montreal police will they press charges against my former principal? How about starting a forum for abused students in the public school system who were physically abused by this strap? That may take away some of my pain. I am being sarcastic not to belittle your pain but to understand what is acceptable, what is the gray area and what is crossing the line. There was corporal punishment in public schools as was at GCC years ago, so when this type of attitude adjustment was required, it was administered. Can someone explain how any of these attitude adjustments were abuse by the definition of the law when they occurred? Again when they occurred. In 2007 we are allowed to hit our children with an open palm on the backside, pants up. Those are the acceptable legal guidelines for corporal punishment. I would like to know if those on this forum made the efforts to determine if their administered corporal punishments or claimed abuse was in fact abuse at the time it occurred. Please, I await with absolute respect for your pain | ||
| edgeandrea New member Username: edgeandrea Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.225.84.158 |
Hi Sinderella. Interesting post. I find it fascinating how this forum has evolved from a group of like minded individauls sharing, to a voyeuristic venue for the vast majority who don't care to share (myself included) and yet are unable to turn away from these people who are in pain. Some, like Jason and a couple of others, have chosen to attack and force these individuals to defend themselves, to prove that they suffered, while all the while I don't think there has been one person on this site who is not willing to admit that the tactics employed at GCC were at best questionable and misquided, at worst completely abusive. These people own their feelings, and their experiences. No one can or should try to diminish that. If there is a judgment to be made than it is up to the authorties, not Jason, or anyone else, no matter how vicous and aggressive they get. I enjoyed the closing on the weekend, and had the opportunity to see many fellow students, as well as a group of about 8 very close friends, some of whome are intimately involved with this tragic situation. Others, like myself, are for the most part observers. Not one of us could say, for a moment, that mistakes were NOT made. Those mistakes, while they may have only formed a small percentage of the overall experience of GCC for many, caused a vast amount of pain for alot of individuals. Does that consitute abuse? I would suggest that disciplining any child/adolescent for "attitude" (arrogence, self-centerdness, flirting, homosexuality) crosses the line for any responsible edcucator or custodian of other peoples childen. There in lies the issue. Does this make Ken MacNeil reponsible? No. His apology, his availability and presence at the closing was appreciated by all. His words were heartfelt and represent the wonderful humanity that everyone is craving to find peace from all of this. However, anyone, anyone at all, who was there during this troubled time must accept and question their own culpability in standing by and allowing this to happen to so many, for so many years. Sinderella, what you decide to do with your own children should weigh on your concience. What is being discussed, and sadly defended here, is what people chose to do with other's children. |
