| Author | Message | ||
     tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 72 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.69.121.31 |
Here is another article from the Brockville Recorder and Times FYI. http://newsfeed.recorder.ca/cgi-bin/LiveIQue.acgi$rec=23861 | ||
| tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 207.216.241.43 |
A new article in today's Globe & Mail. http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20071001.wgrenville1001/BNStory/National/home | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 |
I wanted to post once I first came across this website, but promised myself I would wait until I went to the closing weekend so I could have the opportunity to see the school and staff with a fresh pair of eyes, and re-evaluate my time at Grenville. Now that the weekend has past I find myself speechless after reading the newest article by Michael Valpy. It is by far one of the most one-sided examples of biased tabloid level of "journalism" that I have ever seen (and this is after that first article with the most rediculous quotes, attributed to Jay Thompson, which still boggle my mind). If you were at the closing weekend you know there was much more said then "If we contributed to your hurt, we are sorry." Reducing Ken MacNeil's closing remarks to an admission of guilt is egregious and offensive. I also find it typical of Mr Valpy's writing to mention that the dinner was $50, without bothering to comment on the fact that the money is to be used to assist former staff members. I also find it disgusting that the Globe and Mail would choose to exploit an opportunity, the last opportunity actually, for people to visit the school (for whatever reason that may have been) and whore that out for their own personal gain. While I also struggled to adjust to life after Grenville, and found solace on this forum with the community of support, it's also become clear to me that there are people here with deep grudges who have no desire in healing, but are instead seeking their pound of flesh | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 75 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.86.85.108 |
"there are people here with deep grudges who have no desire in healing, but are instead seeking their pound of flesh" Late Lights, Your harsh comments are typical of the moles and trolls who have infected this forum with put-downs of those who have endured nighmarish years under cruel religious tyrants. If you haven't walked a mile in their moccassins, you don't have the right to judge their motives or pour salt in their wounds. Shame on you. | ||
| tmw Member Username: tmw Post Number: 69 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.71.155.107 |
Thank you pandersen...my sentiments exactly I can honestly say, as I was at GCC also on Saturday...times had not changed | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 |
Actually pandersen, I've walked quite a bit in my own moccassins. I started going to Grenville when I was 5, even living with relatives in Brockville for a while to make it easier to get to school each day. I visited the COJ when I was younger, and relatives of mine were asked several times to become staff members. So I'm quite well versed in the realities of life at Grenville. I'm sorry for the people here who are genuinely hurting, and using this community as a source for solace and strength. As I mentioned, there were aspects to my own life I stuggled with after my time there, and have found comfort in some of the postings here. But I cannot stand by and see people posing as victims and exploiting this for their own gains. | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 |
I realize that while I've been on this board every day for the past several months, this is my first official day, and I apologize that my introduction happened the way it did. Seeing Mr. and Mrs. Bushnell/Bayles senior, and talking with them again was just heartbreaking. Two genuinely sweet and caring couples who after years of dedicating their lives to making Grenville a great place are now left without even a perment place to retire to (much less any sort of retirement plan). As mentioned before the wheels are already in motion for the class action lawsuit, and the multiple stories in the Globe etc... But when claims of abuse like this are made, everyone becomes painted with the same brush... | ||
| cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 155 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 |
OH MY GOD, Late_lights!!! The staff will do just fine when they leave!! I left at age 18, on MY OWN, and headed off to University. I found an apt., got a job and made a life for myself. They can do it also!! Ok, I'm not totally heartless and there are those who I do feel badly for. But lets not treat them like children. They are grown adults and will do just fine! And the paper DID not make Ken's remarks look like an "admission of guilt". He was sincerely apologizing to which many of us were grateful. Many MORE apologies need to be forthcoming!! Also this board is not being used to "exploit our own gains." We are sharing, laughing, crying and hopefully healing along the way. I was at the Closing also and it was wonderful to see old friends. But don't let all the Pomp and Circumstances of the weekend blind you from what you(as you said you did) and others had to endure!! Also when claims of abuse are made they are made directly to those that did the abusing. So don't assume that "everyone becomes painted with the same brush." I would not lower myself to even put Ken Macneil on the same level as C.F. What an insult to Ken that would be!!! Late_lights, just think about all of this and realize that just because we had a good weekend(and trust me I partied way too much for this old girls)  , doesn't mean that there is still alot healing to be done(and this will come with continually exposing the TRUTH!!). Dawn ps.----Panderson-----thankyou for your support and your words!! | ||
| adelicatebalance New member Username: adelicatebalance Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
Thank you late_lights, my sentiments exactly. A pound of flesh is the perfect way to put it. I would love someone to address my question in another thread: "Was your life so destroyed by GCC that you seek to bring about destruction of others in retribution?" The only response I got was inappropriate and rude. The people on this site who claim to be Christians are doing anything but living the principles. This is especially true of the Factnetter who lied to the registration people at GCC that the man accompanying her to the dinner was her husband, when in fact he was Michael Valpy. Nice to see those Christian principles at work, Roz. I spoke with a couple of GCC staff still living on campus who were interviewed by Michael Valpy. Nothing they said made it to print -- because it was positive. The Factnetters have found an extremely powerful advocate to help them exact their pound of flesh. No, this is not a site for people wanting to heal. People here are pimping for $$$. Follow the timeline: 37 years go by with no claims of abuse, GCC announces closure and sale of property, then Factnetters go public. It isn't rocket science. Dream_Truth has made it clear she needs the money -- obviously, many more do too. | ||
| adelicatebalance New member Username: adelicatebalance Post Number: 9 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
CryFreedom said: "The staff will do just fine when they leave!! I left at age 18, on MY OWN, and headed off to University. I found an apt., got a job and made a life for myself. They can do it also!! Ok, I'm not totally heartless and there are those who I do feel badly for. But lets not treat them like children. They are grown adults and will do just fine!" Dawn -- not everyone at GCC is 18 with their whole career ahead of them. Consider the teachers who may not be able to find work because they are tarred with this brush and no school will touch them. The older couples who really need support because they are too old to find a job easily in the marketplace will doubly suffer because if a class action is successful --it is unlikely they will receive any of their meagre severance packages. | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 63 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 136.160.250.253 |
OK...I've had it! Now I'm going to speak up. This is making me really angry! First of all, Factnet and the COJ/GCC thread was here long before GCC announced the closing. We were sharing stories of trauma and abuse from our time at the CoJ and GCC and seeking healing prior to the events of the past few months. So it is irresponsible to announce that this "site" and the people sharing here are not living as Christians. It's simply not true and I think you should be ashamed of yourself for stating such a thing! Secondly, I would also like to go on to say that the truly UNCHRISTIAN-like behaviors are the behaviors of those who founded and perpetuated the Community of Jesus and those who took that way of life to Grenville and lived it out there. While everyone had slightly different experiences, the VAST majority of those who escaped from the Community of Jesus and GCC are people who have been damaged, traumatized, and spiritually destroyed by power-hungry and manipulative sadists. The sadists who were in power at both of these institutions systematically broke the spirits of many, many people...and told them that GOD was unhappy with them! Don't you think that God must weep over the pain and suffering of His children...done to them in His name? That someone could do that to innocents is horrific! It is EVIL! And in the face of that, you want to point fingers at the victims? What is wrong wtih you? Do you have any idea how many people have spent YEARS on their knees, praying to God to "make them good"? Do you have any idea how many people have gone through life believing that they were bad, low, needy, wrong people? Do you know what it does to the very core of a person to grow up believing that if you could just try hard enough, want it badly enough, pray long enough, confess often enough, that maybe you would be loved, be approved of, be OK...only to find out that no matter what you did...NOTHING WOULD EVER BE ENOUGH?!?!?!? Don't you understand that this was done INTENTIONALLY as a way of breaking a person down in order to be able to completely control them? Are you really that out of touch with reality? Why don't you step back and really LISTEN to the pain that is pouring out on this board? Why aren't you able to understand that while some people might have been able to assimilate to this way of life and while some people have some things wrong inside them that makes them prone to accepting the annihalation of their souls, MANY people, myself included, simply lost themselves for years because of the spiritual, mental, emotional, psychological, pysical and sexual abuses that were doled out to the lucky residents of the Community of Jesus and Grenville Christian College? Am I looking for $$$???? NO! I am looking for Justice! Do you believe that abusers should be allowed to continue their abuse? Should all those who have been damaged just slink silently away? What about consequences for actions? What about accountability? What about righting wrongs and making sure that these horrible things never happen to another human being? Come ON!!! HOW DARE YOU make a statement that people here are pimping for $$$!!! SHAME ON YOU!!! To take the very real and debilitating pain that MANY have suffered and to call their spirituality and their motives into question is like telling a woman who has been beaten by her husband that she must have done something to deserve it. I'm disgusted! Enough is Enough!!! | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 |
Beleive me, I was not blinded by any pomp or circumstance this past weekend. I did however note the genuine care and love that members of the staff had. The time it took them to set up the dining room, prepare the photos along the walls ofthe main building, and even the memorabilia and photo rooms. Not to mention the genuine delight that sparkled in the eyes of my former teachers when we caught up. There were also staff members who I didn't see eye to eye with during my time at Grenville, and they were just as warm and welcoming to me, as my Kindergarden teacher. And Dawn, I wish it weren't the case, but everyone IS painted with the same brush. All former students, and staff members are now marked with the stigma of having been affiliated with "an abusive cult". I can't tell you how many friends and aquaintances of mine have asked me out of genuine concern if any of the allegations happend to me. So while it's great to see you exhonerating Ken MacNeil here, to everyone who reads the Globe and Mail and isn't on FactNet, he's now just as guilty as others whom have been accused... | ||
| adelicatebalance New member Username: adelicatebalance Post Number: 10 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
BonnieB: I hear you and I am sorry for what I said. I was out of line. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 76 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.86.85.108 |
Thanks, BonnieB! Really well said. | ||
| tinkerbell84 New member Username: tinkerbell84 Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 88.134.236.100 |
adelicatebalance - I have a hard time writing down my thoughts accurately on paper but I'll try. My personal opinion is somewhere between yours and some of the others. I was never physically abused at Grenville nor was I a problem child put on discipline regularly. There were many staff members I adored and others I was terrified of. However, my emotional development was very much influenced, stagnated and damaged during my time at Grenville. If I am perfectly honest, I was terrified of Father Haig and when he left I was initially pleased that Father Farnsworth was in charge instead. I never had a problem with him (although I did with his wife) but I really never saw the whole picture and just tried to do my best to get through my years being invisible and without making waves. I never imagined that some of the preaching or ideologies would influence my life for years to come - but they did. I don't want revenge and I certainly don't want to hurt the majority of the staff members but on the other hand my parents spent tens of thousands of dollars on my education and I came out of the school as an emotional wreck with such an adversity to authorities, "studies" and "dorms" etc. that I turned down a spot at 3 universities. I spent a decade trying to find out who I was, where I fit in and what I wanted to do, and in looking back I see all those wasted years and wish it had been different. I can’t change that anymore and life goes on - but I can’t deny that there is an anger inside me and I’d LOVE to get a year of tuition back to take a university course now as a middle-aged Mom. They screwed that chance for me! However, for reasons you also mentioned – I, personally, CAN'T direct my anger at the school and staff as a whole. I can’t point my finger at one single individual that DIRECTLY did me any harm to ME and it was solely the “mentality” at Grenville that affected me in a negative way. I can’t and won’t condemn the whole school or staff even though there was something terribly wrong there. On the other hand, there were students I knew who I know WERE physically or emotionally abused by single individuals and I feel that they definitely DO have the right to express their anger towards the persons who were involved. I can’t speak for these ex-students myself but I can certainly understand the frustration when no one will admit to this abuse and I can understand them going to the press or perhaps looking for money. I also realize there may be people getting involved in this whole ordeal while it has gained in momentum and they may think they can make a quick buck - I certainly don’t condone that - but we CANNOT forget the people that REALLY suffered! Anger and hate are a natural response to hurt! I couldn’t make it to the closing personally but I’ve heard the complete speech by Ken McNeil and hearing that was moving and something positive for my own healing and the way I interpreted it – he (himself) was being genuine - I think. (Message edited by tinkerbell84 on October 01, 2007) (Message edited by tinkerbell84 on October 01, 2007) | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 5 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.101.55.104 |
bonnieb, we're both angry. My anger stems at the people here who's intentions aren't genuine, those who tried to destroy the last opportunity any of us had to meet together at GCC by secretly inviting the media to spin what happened for their own agenda, those who have made false allegations in the media and elsewhere, and those who have little regard for the innocent lives that suffer the consequences as a result of these allagations. | ||
| delight_session New member Username: delight_session Post Number: 10 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 74.101.148.134 |
I for one am not living like a Christian ....GCC made sure of that. ... besides I am too educated... I am however educated enough to respect the "others" belief systems and the potential for multiple interpretations of reality. For some GCC was positive. For some abusive. Still some are in denial. To recognize GCC as an abusive atmosphere is a difficult and painful perceptual shift, one some will unconsciously avoid and suppress. In this avoidance the pendulum easily swing to the opposite pole and some may become overly positive and defensive. I do not have much sympathy for the "innocent" staff members. They saw what was going on and by staying or not speaking up one loses their innocence status. Just following orders is no longer a legitimate excuse when atrocities are occurring. Ignorance of the law doesn't wash either. | ||
| papillon Member Username: papillon Post Number: 65 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 24.40.146.45 |
Thanks Bonnie. The bottom line is that child abuse was happening at GCC and the CoJ. It is the legal - and certainly moral - obligation of the adults, and especially in their role as educators they are required by law, to report any knowledge of child abuse. This was not done. In fact, the less-extreme abuses tended to be flaunted so "public humiliation" could be added to the mix. Absolutely NO sympathy was given to ANY of the individuals who either BUCKLED under the system, or were BROKEN BY it, or who RAN AWAY. As a young teenager, a minor, I was put out on the street and left to die. Staying alive, in one piece, and finishing high school was a challenge, let alone attending college. I have been on my own since I was 15. No one gave a ____ about my welfare. I had no support other than the Grace of God and my own wits. I understand the desire for sympathy, but would you say these things to your child after he/she had just been beaten and/or molested and/or turned out on the street? Yes, it was "years ago", but it is something many of us here live with every day. What does it take for Evil to triumph but for good men to do nothing? What does that inaction then make of those "good" men? I am glad Ken MacNeil apologized to the extent he did. I hope he meant it. | ||
| papillon Member Username: papillon Post Number: 66 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 24.40.146.45 |
late_lights: There are NO FALSE ALLEGATIONS HERE from survivors. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 77 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.86.85.108 |
If anything, the abuses were so pervasive and so horrific that what is written about here is just the tip of the iceberg. The cruelty that went on at the hands of my mother's (Cay Andersen) minions defies description. And I'll bet that the majority of those harmed are still hurting too much to even want to talk about it. That's the curse of these cults, that they leave you so damaged and debilitated when you finally leave that you are robbed of any inner strength to try to fight back. | ||
| kate_skinner New member Username: kate_skinner Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 142.240.200.10 |
Just a quick note to all: I attended the closing with some trepidation. I was worried that I was walking into a potentially ugly situation. To all of you that took the time to speak to me and share some of your happier memories:Thank-you; since I literally have no happy memories of my own I will use some of yours to give me some sense of balance. Some of your stories were quite amusing... To those of you who were brave enough to share your tragic thoughts and stories: thank-you all as well; you helped me feel some validation for my own feelings. To all of you who made me feel welcome and included when I was alone in a crowd; you all made it much easier for me. To the angel who took a chance and spent so much personal time contacting me to help me get up to speed on this site I especially want to thank you. You went above and beyond...I raised a glass to you at pub and of course... accomplished the boulder mission. Kate | ||
| questiongrrl Junior Member Username: questiongrrl Post Number: 36 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 67.70.71.216 |
there seems to be a perception that some of the people posting "negative" things about gcc here or in the media are making false claims or allegations. i do not know if this is true, as i do not personally know all these people. i can say that from my own experience as well as what i have witnessed, i have not read anything that sounds implausible to me. i suppose some people could have made false claims that are nonetheless plausible. however, from what i have read, it seems to me that the stories here are well within the reality of what occurred over the years at gcc. it should go without saying that this is only a part of the reality, and therefore only part of the story. similarly, there may be individuals here who are only looking to make money or whose anger suggests that they are not interested in healing. IF there are people who feel that they are owed money based on their experiences, i'm not sure that it follows that those people are ONLY out to make money, or that this somehow invalidates their claims. while not everyone will agree with or understand such an approach, that is one of the legitimate legal resources for people in such circumstances. as for anger, i know it has been an integral part of my own search for healing. sometimes i am very angry and sometimes less so and sometimes just sad. that anger has been a motivating force for me at times when i felt all was lost. it encouraged me to seek help, to reach out to others who were hurting and to find coping mechanisms. it encouraged me to protect others who i saw needed protection and resources. i suppose that anger can sometimes be unproductive, but in my experience it has been mostly productive, even when it might look ugly to someone who didn't understand where i was coming from. i would guess that the recent events have been incredibly painful for the staff still at gcc, as it has been for many others. many staff (young and old) have left over the years - especially recently. that was not an easy process for myself, or for any of those i know personally. some of those staff are seeking their own paths to "healing" and from what i understand have a variety of opinions about gcc. i would imagine that is also the case for those who were left "holding the bag". some of those individuals recognize the hurt that was caused - regardless of whether or not it was intended. everyone who played a part in that hurt/abuse will have to be accountable for their OWN role. some of them perhaps to do not recognize the harm that occurred or possibly feel hurt by the recent allegations. i completely understand why many former students (and others) feel compassion for these few remaining staff members, as i do myself. i suppose each of us involved in gcc over the years (in any capacity) will have to come to our own understanding of its impact on our lives and the impact of our decisions on the lives of others. i do believe that those left at gcc have the ability to start a new life and i think there are many who will be willing to help facilitate that, maybe even including some of the "angry" people here  . i cannot support the notion that people who have genuine complaints should stay quiet because these complaints may be uncomfortable for others to hear - even in the event that these allegations cause (unintended) pain to those associated but not responsible. i would hope that in any case where genuine abuse/suffering/inappropriate actions occurred that there would be an outcry of support for those willing to tell their own stories. i do not think that being associated with a "cult" is any less stigmatizing for the people who are speaking out about their abuses...perhaps more so, given the nature of their experiences. | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.101.55.104 |
I'm sorry to say papillon, that you are incorrect. The statements made by Jay Thompson in the Globe and Mail were totally without merit. I was at Grenville the same time he was, and there is no way he witnessed any "panty checks" in the girls dorm. Nor did any of my relatives who were in the dorm experience such a thing. Also the reason Jay wasn't allowed to attend his graduation wasn't because his girlfriend came to grad. It was because he snuck out the night before to stay at her hotel room and got busted for it (I know this because he was my room leader that year). I've also noticed a great divide about GCC staff. One camp maintains they had it worse then the students, while the other holds them personally responsible for not speaking up about any abuse they knew about, but did not participate in. I'm just unclear about where the moral line is drawn though. Why did it take almost 40 years in some cases for these allegations to finally come out. What about the moral responsibility former students who knew about the abuse had to those who had yet to attend GCC. I was in elementary school in the 80's when things were still apparently at their worst. What about the moral responsibility those students had to protect me and others who were younger and other future students? I'm not trying to lay blame, or accuse anyone. This question of responsibility is the largest thing about my time at Grenville that I am still struggling with | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 78 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.86.85.108 |
Just to clarify, I was never a student at GCC, nor was I ever a member fo the Community of Jesus. But I lived for years with my mother Cay Andersen and experienced the hell she created in the lives of those around her. Since the early 1980s I have been hearing the same nightmarish stories from former members of the CoJ, including those of my late wife, Heidi, who spent 15 years under Cay's and Judy's sadistic rule as a Sister at Rock Harbor. So, yes, I believe the stories of those who lived at "Gren-hell" as some have named it. And nothing Michael Valpy has written sounds like it was out of line with all I have heard for decades. So, please, folks, if you didn't experience the extremes of Discipline that others did, count your lucky stars. But please stop ••••••• on those who did. It took a lot of guts for dream_truth to start this whole forum, and to overcome her own fears and struggles. I take my hat off to dream_truth and all those who have followed suit to expose all this. For those of you who are reading it, and who haven't had the confidence to go to the OPP or speak with a lawyer, please give it serious consideration. It's really worth it to stand up against this kind of cruelty inflicted in the name of God. You will find a lot of support from others who have taken this step. | ||
| cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 156 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 |
Late_lights------For starters, could you give me a name so I know who I'm talking to?!(same with "adelicatebalance"----as you keep referring to us as "FACTNETTERS"----guess you are one also as here you are!) I think "bonnieb" about summed it all up for many of us!! Thankyou "bonnieb", well said!! But you 2 need to realize that we are not all in it for the almighty dollar!! I am NOT even involved in any kind of law suit. All I WANT is for C.F. to admit his horrific mistakes and apologize for them!! But he doesn't seem to be able to do that!! I'm sure both of you did not experience as much abuse as so many of us did. I will not even begin to explain the abuse I went through on ALL different LEVELS, as it is too personal for this site. But know that it did happen to me and many others and if we are finally able to talk about it and find some healing then so be it. Have you never heard of suppressed memories and trauma from experiences?! Maybe that is why it has taken us so long to deal with these issues. And please don't think so lowly of us to assume that we just happened to start voicing these traumas since the the announcement of the Closing. Like someone else said, this site has been around for a long time and we have been sharing on it well before all this started. So step back and take a bigger look at the picture!! | ||
| cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 157 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 |
THANKYOU PANDERSON FOR THAT!! I knew I forgot to include something!! "adelicatebalance" how fuckingrude to judge Ruth for expressing her abuse and assuming she is doing it for the money! That is just incredible. Seriously move onto another site if you are going to judge someone like that! We don't need that here!!! | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 64 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 170.215.130.223 |
I appreciate the calm, reasoned responses to my post. I have to applaud questiongrrl and what she has written. I think it is important for all of us to realize that every individual has their own unique story and their own unique way of working through it. Why can't we listen and validate each other without making personal attacks on individuals, their character and their motives? If one reacts in anger and lashes out, it that any better or any worse than the one who buries their head in the sand and refuses to deal with it? Is the stance of forgive, forget, move on and don't make waves any more pure than the stance of "I'm mad as hell and I"m not going to take it any more!"? I can accept that one may have had a great experience at GCC, another years of horrific abuse and yet another who had experiences in between. I can accept the fact that one person may believe that their healing will hinge on their ability to forgive and forget and yet another will need to see justice served. I can accept that you may have fond memories of a staff member who was kind to you and yet another will still, to this day, feel physically ill when they hear that person's name. Can all of us feel brave enough to share our experiences and be brave enough to accept that the next person might have a totally different viewpoint? Can we share our viewpoint without attacking and minimizing the story of another? So many of us were told for so long exactly what to think, how to feel, what to believe, what to do and when to do it...and when we were finished were told that it wasn't right. Telling someone that their experiences are invalid and their responses are wrong is the quickest way to victimize the victim all over again. | ||
| kate_skinner New member Username: kate_skinner Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 142.240.200.10 |
Well said questiongrrl. I concur. Late_lights: If you really want to know why it has taken so long for this to come to light, I'll tell you the little I know. In Jan. or Feb.'78 a girl ran away. The whole girls' dorm was woken in the night and literally interogated for any acts of complicity or knowlege of her where-abouts. It was hell on wheels. She was found (by the police) following the railroad tracks to escape. She was dragged back to GCC and handed over to staff. She was not believed by the police and not allowed to call her parents. Did I witness any of it myself? Only the terror in the dorm. I was never able to get near her. She was put on a very long silence discipline. I lost track of her after a while. (don't remember if she stayed or left). Word around school was that the townspeople would turn us in and police would drag us back if we tried to leave. I believed that and so did a lot of other kids. I told my mother in letters (she claims to have not received) about what was going on and she didn't respond. I told her again at spring break she found it to be a fantastic tale. In the end, I was thankful just to get out of there. I felt powerlessless to help those that were left behind. I don't need any survivor guilt to add to my list of problems. Perhaps you would have me charged as well as the staff? I was 16 and laws were different then. Children neither had some of the rights they do now, nor the knowlege of the rights they did have that is so common today. Try to keep things in context. I hope that we are all compassionate enough that we're all struggling with the moral responsibility aspect of the situation. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILITY OF ADULTS TO PROTECT CHILDREN. IT NOT THE JOB OF CHILDREN TO PROTECT EACH OTHER FROM THOSE THAT ARE CHARGED WITH OUR CARE. K. | ||
| cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 158 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 |
Kate-Skinner-------SO WELL SAID!! I have struggled with the guilt of "leaving others behind" over the past years. I said to a younger friend recently that I wished I could have put him under my wing and carried him out with me. But like you said, I was only really a child myself. So we should not live with that guilt. But to be honest I do and it hurts to know that those I "left behind" went through much more hurt after I left. | ||
| kate_skinner New member Username: kate_skinner Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 142.240.200.10 |
Cryfreedom: The first step is to forgive yourself. The second step is to be good to yourself. Try that on for size - see how it fits... I'll be thinking about all of you tonight. I intend to post some thoughts about the last few weeks as soon as I can make some sense of it. I still haven't been able to get my username changed. | ||
| cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 159 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 |
Thankyou Kate!!! | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 7 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.101.55.104 |
Thank you Kate. Again I really am not trying to place blame on anyone. It's just been one piece of the puzzle I've been struggling to put into place, both in my experiences, as well as the bigger picture. While many of you have been here for a long time before the media broke the story, others are only now beginning to really examine everything as you once did. While I'm sure questions such as the one I just raised have been covered before, it's new to me, so I just ask for patience, and a little bit of understanding. | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 242 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.48.101 |
Hi, This thread was so hard for me to read and made cry. I am not sure here how I feel. I was at the celebration this weekend and like Kate went with a lot of trepidation. I was happy to connect with former students and staff and meet the people I have spent so much time with here. I have stated before that this forum is what it is and those who have an issue should start their own forum. I would have no problem with that and I for one would not be in your forum berating you for your thoughts and feelings. I would respect you share a different opinion than I do. The way I see it, life is such that we all have our opinions and thoughts and feelings. To judge another and take away thier validity is so wrong. I appreciate some of you want your say... hey have it. But have some respect at the same time. I had decided to stay away from factnet for a bit and try and work on my own thought process but was asked by a friend to come in and read this thread. I am hurt, angered and feel completely disrespected by some of you. While I agree that painting an institution such as COFJ or GCC with a brush is what is happening. Welcome to the real world... it is unfortunate but it does happen. But, at the sametime having said that and to use the terminology ... Not all the people here have whined, jumped on the bandwagon and started a lawsuit or participated with Valpy etc... So, in token you are painting us with a brush. See how that works???? DO YOU??????? Agreeing with Dawn here in that the staff will be all right. I firmly believe that. I also know and have mentioned in tons of threads it is a shame some who really did believe and do what they thought was Gods work might be in trouble at this time. But, I saw some happy faces there and ones who have a plan. Don't misunderstand that. Yes I was grateful they did a "spish" job of making the school inviting to some degree this weekend. I saw the energy and hard work and also made my gratitude known to them. | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 8 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.101.55.104 |
Thank you Kate. Again I really am not trying to place blame on anyone. It's just been one piece of the puzzle I've been struggling to put into place, both in my experiences, as well as the bigger picture. While many of you have been here for a long time before the media broke the story, others are only now beginning to really examine everything as you once did. While I'm sure questions such as the one I just raised have been covered before, it's new to me, so I just ask for patience, and a little bit of understanding. | ||
| flacknyc New member Username: flacknyc Post Number: 7 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 66.65.65.32 |
To late lights, I lived in the girls dorm and can vouch for the fact that there were "panty checks." I witnessed many of them. Nuff said. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 79 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.86.85.108 |
late_lights, thanks for your willingness to be in dialogue with this. For a lot of us these memories bring up some pretty raw emotion, even decades after the fact. | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 243 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.48.235 |
Late Lights: Thank you and understood. Pls e-mail me if you are comfortable... lianeross@porchlight.ca | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 244 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.48.235 |
I want to organize my thoughts a bit still. As Panderson said so much raw emotion. I for one was straight up and honest this weekend with people that were there and needed to be. I likely have gotten more personal on this site than I did with them. But, one of the expereinces I had this weekend that blew me away was how many people recognized me. I did not wear my name tag for a long time. I was a lil afraid to get the boot. I admit to going in a lil closed off and likely had a stance that said do not approach me. I changed that as the day wore on. But, I was recognized by former students more than staff and had several come up to me (whom I did not attend school with and never met before) and thank me for giving them a voice for posting and validating people. I even had some on the other side of the fence thank me for the same thing. Indeed, they had questions but they saw a sense of fairness in me and willingness to talk and let them be heard too. I had to agree with a point or two made by them as well. When this forum started it was not about anger and malice.. it was about healing and sharing and letting others know they are not alone. Now, I feel like it is not like that. I feel like there is a constant fight and we have been invaded and it worries me for new people who want to come and just feel safe. It makes me cry sometimes while I read the hate and accusations. I am angry we have to validate to people our feelings and get personal with people. And still be ripped to shreds again.... like it was over 20 years ago. I lived my life denying my emotions because of GCC and I was lied to by GCC and felt ashamed about being a woman because of GCC. Why do I have to feel that again when I was finally begining to get a sense of closure?? Seriously...would some of you walk into an AA mtg where somebody is trying to recover and tell them they are not a drunk? Would you tell them to get over themselves?? I would hope not only because it would not be the place for you to be if you are not a drunk. Just like this is not the place for people who feel happy about GCC and COFJ to be. All we want is understanding and validation for the way we feel. That is why the lovely Ruth created this site. Pre G&M it was a safe place and it just is not anymore. | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 245 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.48.235 |
I reserve the right to post more when I have organized myself a bit more. I feel like I got some answers and closure this weekend. I also feel like what I have done and the people I was there for helped me heal. I feel stronger and I understand myself a lot more after this site. The healing I recieved was recognizing my triggers, and being able to think before I react. I found myself and my vocation in this site. Yes, I am a social worker who was feeling damn useless in the biz. But, the people who have responded to me have showed me who I am. I am grateful for that. I recieved a sense of relief in this site that I was not alone. I found out who I was and what I am capable of and have been able to help others in the same boat. People who trusted me and shared with me helped me heal and that is part of the process. That is why AA works and group healing works, you find a common thread and together you can heal. And, pave the way for the newcomer by sharing how your growth process worked. Straight up good times happened at GCC this has been posted. But, their was pain and I for one shared my pain with a former staffer this weekend. I told her how I felt about God when I walked away from GCC. She cried and hugged me and told me that after GCC she struggled too and she told me her journey to finding God and peace again and I was overhwelmed and so grateful to her. She validated me and I her. She told me she was sorry for the abuse and my life struggles and if asked if she contributed on a personal level to it. I told her whole heartly no she had not. I did not name who did... that would have been mean. I hugged her and thanked her for helping me and told her she owed me no apology. Just some of my thoughts after this weekend. I am Liane Ross and I stand by all I have said and posted and I told people this weekend who asked about factnet the same thing. I am not ashamed or in fear of what I have written because I know it is truth. And there is always light in truth.... Thank you Sincerly Liane Marie Ross | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 65 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 136.160.250.253 |
Someone just sent me this quote that I wanted to share: C.S. Lewis wrote in the Preface to Mere Christianity: "When you have reached your own room, be kind to those who have chosen different doors and to those who are still In the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. That is one of the rules common to the whole house." These are excellent words for us to remember as we "share the house" here on Factnet. | ||
| adelicatebalance New member Username: adelicatebalance Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
Thank you, Bonnie -- I needed to hear those words by C.S. Lewis. I am ashamed of my harsh words and for the hurt I have caused those here – especially those I targeted in my hateful post yesterday. I've been re-reading past posts and can clearly see how much compassion is being shown to all those posting here. You all are teaching me valuable lessons in civility, dignity and love. I want to thank you for that. Bless you all in your journey to healing and peace. | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 66 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 136.160.250.253 |
You are most welcome, adelicatebalance. I needed to hear them too and understand those who have chosen different ways to handle things than I have. Thank you for being open to understanding the differences here. We're all on a journey to healing and peace...some are just on different paths to the same destination. Have a blessed day. | ||
| adelicatebalance New member Username: adelicatebalance Post Number: 12 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
BonnieB -- would you be willing to communicate with me privately? adelicatebalance@hotmail.com | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 67 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 136.160.250.253 |
I've emailed you. | ||
| pandersen Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 80 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.86.85.108 |
adelicatebalance, thank you for your gracious response to BonnieB's postings. These are emotionally charged issues for all of us, and I know I have regretted responding in anger at times. I realize that we need to cut each other a lot of slack and to try to listen and support even if we don't always agree with or understand each other. I'm still learning that, too. Thank you again. | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 68 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 136.160.250.253 |
Agreed, pandersen. These are rough waters for many of us. I'm so glad that you are here to share your perspective, especially considering your relationship to the founding mothers. I'm sure this is not easy for you either and I appreciate your input. | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 247 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.48.232 |
I find me agreeing with Panderson again. I want to thak you both delicate balance and bonnie. You really have shown such respect and understanding with your last posts. Your ability to listen and try and comphrehend and atleast get the msg coming accross since last night is so refreshing and so mature. You see, that is what I was trying to say. This is such an emotional issue for all involved. It is easy to get lost in it and have it consume you. But, again I want to point out how it heals as well. It allows the ability to step back and see someone else and sense them and thier pain and and even if we dont understand it helps us to accept. For me in my life the healing process was about acceptance as much as it was about sharing my story. Healing and closure are not so simple as we think. It is all such a huge process with the end result being the same for all but sometimes the journey is a lil different. Opening up and being real in my life has taken so long and it hurt every step of the way. There was fear, anger and so many more emotions involved. Trust is hard for me. As it is for so many who grace our forum with their stories and I have to be honest and say I was getting worried that it might end here. But, again the grace of God came through.... and, I thank you both so much! You are two people I respect and would love to get to know. If more people could follow the amazing example you both have led with.... I would be so pleased. You have my sincere thanks and respect, Liane Marie Ross | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 248 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.48.232 |
Panderson: Youare the cats meow in my books. thanks for coming and helping over here on the GCC part of things. Your maturity and understanding and words were much needed. For the record: In my day we did not have to flash our panties... But they did run hands down our backs and make sure we had on led vest bras and full slips....NO camisoles ALLOWED in my day! | ||
| cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 160 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 |
"late_lights" and "adelicatebalance", I also apologize for my harsh postings last night! I was raw with emotion from the weekend(not to mention bagged from being up since 2:00A.M for work). I should have taken a deep breath and responded later instead of just jumping in. But those who know me know that is just how I am. But that is no excuse for not giving you both the respect for how you're feel about all of this also. "adelicatebalance" thankyou for your words and understanding today!! Take care----Dawn | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 66 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.62.21 |
Dawn - The staff will be alright? Yeah, sure, nothing like finding housing and security when you are over the age of 60!! God please DAMN The Bayles and The Bushnell's etc....They were such TERRIBLE people. God I can't believe that Mrs.Bayles wouldn't let me take 3 issues of Sports Illustrated from the Library. Burn them all I say, burn them all!!! Bonnieb - There is a HUGE differene between cofJ and GCC. Give me a break that they took the CofJ message and administered it to us all at GCC. Blame the CofJ then - sue them. If you bought into that crap its each individuals own fault. You reference being on your knees and begging for blah-blah-blah. Weak people are brainwashed and I haven't seen any weak people of here yet. Lots of empowerment by sharing and I guess healing - but there is also alot of misguided blame, rage and payback going on. There is far too many blends of experiences here...anyone who went to GCC should be counting their luckey stars that they weren't at the CofJ. I don't know what to say to the poor buggers that went through the CofJ...that is scary to me. The glass can be half full or half empty people -there is a choice of what attitude to take. Sharing and healing - great. Sharing and then rounding up the wagons, with all the different people/experiences, for an assault on whoever is accessible - completely off side. GCC was evil? Give me a break. What parent doesn't look back at things when raising a child with regret? We were in GCC's care. The did what they thought was right or had bought into. They made mistakes, who doesn't. Very few individuals on here reference blaming parents. Well they should have done their homework on GCC then shouldn't they have? Shame on them for putting us in a place they thought was good for us, right? Nope, no-one on here is going to their aged parents and tearing a strip off them are they? Why not? They put us there!!!! We don't want to do that to them...but it is just fine 20 years later to hammer the daylights out of GCC, right? It took 20 years to figure out that the CofJ was a cult? Did no one listen when at Grenville? Cripes they were shoveling crap at us daily - now is the time for justice? Whoa Nelly - time to take the livelihood away from them all? It is shameful to destroy these peoples lives and what little dignity they have left after this debauchary of a lynch gang on here. The funny thing is you talk of being angry - well get in line - don't think that the GCC cheerleaders are standing by idley...WANT TO BE MAD? Then be mad at your parents, sue them instead, GCC was a minimum security prision compared the the freakshow called CofJ. Panderson - sorry you were so entrenched in the CofJ...we dont' know eachother but I have said many times that I couldn't imagine what CofJ kids went through. | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 67 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.62.21 |
Papillon - exactly, you looked out for yourself and have done so since. It is not that ANYONE's experiences are invalid whatsoever...however, what individuals experiences are so similar to anothers that warrants what is going on. 12 inch rules. Panty checks. Dorm searches. Public himiliation. The list goes on. We all had to deal with that stuff collectively - yes, on different sides of the fence <guys/gals>. We all had to figure out together, or alone (and that was by a persons choice) how to get around or through it. The CofJ message? Who bought it? Praying for your sins? What sins, who cared? My Grandpa always told me or references - If someone told you to jump off a bridge.... | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 69 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.62.21 |
Papillon - exactly, you looked out for yourself and have done so since. It is not that ANYONE's experiences are invalid whatsoever...however, what individuals experiences are so similar to anothers that warrants what is going on. 12 inch rules. Panty checks. Dorm searches. Public himiliation. The list goes on. We all had to deal with that stuff collectively - yes, on different sides of the fence <guys/gals>. We all had to figure out together, or alone (and that was by a persons choice) how to get around or through it. The CofJ message? Who bought it? Praying for your sins? What sins, who cared? My Grandpa always told me or referenced - If someone told you to jump off a bridge.... | ||
| cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 161 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 |
God almight Jason, you are all talk and NO balls. Funny how you can spew your •••• over here but you didn't even show up at the Closing. Where were you?? By the way we are not causing the staff to have to go out and find housing and a new life. GCC closed all on it's own before any of this. So find someone else to be angry at Jason. I think we have already asked you to move on if all you are going to do is continue to mock what we are sharing here. And really where were you on the weekend? No balls to show up?? And YES GCC did have some VERY evil and damaging practices that has affected many of us over the years. If these things did not bother you then GOOD but shut thefuckup and let us express our feelings on this site. Sorry, I am just getting •••••• that you keep defending these obvious abuses. | ||
| tellitlikeitis Junior Member Username: tellitlikeitis Post Number: 31 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.97.194.144 |
Priest of Satan, From your last post I finally get it: You simply have no clue what is going on here. And you have no clue what it's like to grow up in circumstances like the CoJ or GCC. From all your postings, you appear to be one of those individuals coated with teflon -- nothing sticks. I must say, I've envied many people who are like that. But teflon coating isn't all good -- and it's even apparent from your postings not only did the bad not stick, but neither did good things such as: LISTENING, (not hearing) EMPATHY, SELF-KNOWLEDGE, SELF-RESTRAINT, PLAYING WELL WITH OTHERS, among many other things that could be mentioned. It's sad, really, that you are so rancorous to so many. You've gotten stuck on certain points, and lost the overview of what's being discussed or even that lawsuits or newspaper articles are BESIDE THE POINT. Keep on ranting, it's really doing nothing other than showing up your true colors. I really feel very sad for you, and hope very much that you aren't like this in other areas of your life. | ||
| bluesman Member Username: bluesman Post Number: 77 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 68.83.79.247 |
priest of satan, I feel great sympathy for those staff who are left at GCC as well. However, they should be mad at those individuals who were abusive to students over the years. It is the fault of those abusing students that the future of some of the staff is now in jeopardy. It is not the victims' fault. Perhaps it would help you to know that severance was not given to many/all staff who left GCC. Some left because they could no longer afford to stay and were as well concerned about retirement. Many of the retirement benefits promised staff over the years were rescinded. It is complicated. However, those people have had to struggle with the same reality. As was stated once before, at least the staff remaining have access to unemployment because they "lost" their job and didn't leave out of an inability to stay financially. It is unfortunate that many unsuspecting people have found themselves in a difficult circumstance because of the pure selfishness of a few people. But those victims who have endured years of abuse fallout should not be made to feel guilty and so be silenced. Again, this is a situation that is much more complicated than you may think. | ||
| strength Member Username: strength Post Number: 53 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 192.197.95.253 |
I still love the staff at GCC. For me, this is why it is so painful to wonder how these lovely people got caught up in a power dynamic that caused such depth of pain and damage. I don't want to know who we can safely call "good" and who we can label as "bad". I just want to understand how it all happened. There are people out there who fit both sides of the coin. They were injured by others, and yet they also injured others. We can't simply say that these people were entirely evil when they hurt others, nor simply innocent when they were the victims. Its not that simple. GCC was a dynamic ecology of power, where the balance beween predator and prey constantly shifted. One day it was one person being humiliated. The next day the tables would turn, and someone else would be taking the brunt of accusations. I remember watching one of my best friends being horribly abased in front of the whole school; all the while I was thinking "I'm just glad its not me today". When human beings get tangled up in power imbalances and control, everyone suffers in the end. Its about getting enough of the truth to light so that we can all understand how the power dynamic evolved. This will mean some pain, for sure, because this old and rotting bandage has got to be ripped right off. But I pray that we can ask the right questions along the way. Fighting about it will only deepen the pain and anger, for ALL of us. The Sting song "How fragile we are" keeps going through my head; "Tomorrow's rain will wash the stains away But something in our minds will always stay Perhaps this final act was meant To clinch a lifetime's argument That nothing comes from violence and nothing ever could. For all those born beneath an angry star Lest we forget how fragile we are" | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 69 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 170.215.130.223 |
POS...I am going to respond this time. Frankly, I realize what a futile effort this is even before I post this...I guess I'm just a glutton for being told how "wrong" I am.  There is a HUGE differene between cofJ and GCC. Give me a break that they took the CofJ message and administered it to us all at GCC. I did not attend GCC. You did not live at the CoJ. I DID read the book "Headmaster" by the man who started GCC, so we'll defer to him as the expert. He put in print the fact that the entire staff of GCC went to the CoJ for visits, took vows to the CoJ, and had retreats with the Mothers at GCC. According to the book, and even according to you, GCC used practices like "light sessions" which originated at the CoJ. Clearly GCC took the CoJ message back to Canada with them and lived it out for decades at the school. So, I find your statement to be illogical and false. Blame the CofJ then - sue them. } I do. And maybe I will. Thank you very much for your permission. However, the blame that the CoJ bears in no way exonerates those at GCC who participated in the types of abuse that the CoJ taught them. Charles Manson's followers went to jail right along with him. They didn't dream up the crimes, but they sure as heck committed them. That makes them responsible too. So, your statement is illogical and does not address the entire issue. If you bought into that crap its each individuals own fault. I'm sure you'll be shocked...but I'm going to disagree with you here as well. I didn't "buy into that crap". However, I was forced to live under "that crap". That severely impacted my life. Students at GCC had to live under "that crap" too. But it was many of the staff who "bought into it". So, what you've just said is that you do hold the staff at GCC responsible individually for being a part of a system that was crap. Well, maybe I actually DO agree with you!  You reference being on your knees and begging for blah-blah-blah. Yes, I did reference being on my knees. I shouldn't be suprised that you would actually belittle my pain and my prayers. But I find that sentence offensive. Weak people are brainwashed and I haven't seen any weak people of here yet. Lots of empowerment by sharing and I guess healing - but there is also alot of misguided blame, rage and payback going on. ALL people have the potential to be brainwashed if someone knows how to break them down, destroy their ability to trust, destroy their ability to think for themselves and isolate them. Weak people can be brainwashed. Strong people can be as well. I believe that you are a great example of someone who has been brainwashed...because you're obviously spewing dogma that you've been told is true and told to spew. If a strong person like yourself can be influenced one way when their own experiences and every indication around them screams out that the opposite is true, it could happen to anyone. How weird that must be for you! I TOTALLY agree with you that the people I've met here are beautiful, intelligent and STRONG! Many have overcome incredible obstacles in their lives to go on to be productive members of life. What tells me that they are even stronger is that they are willing to go through the pain of facing the horrible things that have happened to them, to open up and share with others, to seek healing and to seek justice. Not ONE SINGLE THING is misguided about that! So, I'm sure the other participants here thank you for the compliment. Have a wonderful evening! | ||
| certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 53 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.106.52 |
As someone who attended the GCC event on Saturday afternoon and the dinner, I can confirm that the Globe and Mail article is accurate. Indeed there were several people covering the event and I was approached on the lower floor by a former student identifying himself as a journalist. “D” is not just for “Discipline”, but also “Denial”. I find it absurd that people could possibly claim that there has been no positive reporting in the media about GCC. Indeed for 37 years the school received positive coverage in the media to the anxiety of the countless victims of abuse. The school’s dark past was never revealed in the media until this year. Many people have been living in denial, delusion and dishonesty for far too long. It is important to bear in mind that attempts were made years before by inarticulate and traumatised minors to expose the truth in the media and elsewhere. They were threatened by the school and high-powered lawyers. I am personally grateful to Ken MacNeal for his public apology made on the 29th of September 2007 to those that have suffered. His public acknowledgement was validating and healing for many. It is appropriate that his statement reach a wider audience via the media. Having said that, the prime culprit has denied all and he should be brought to justice for the countless lives that he damaged. We were told at GCC that there were consequences for the infractions to rules. That is true. There are also legal consequences for the violation of laws. It is appropriate that the guilty be brought to justice. As someone who has already given evidence to the Ontario Provincial Police, I encourage others to fulfil their civic and moral duty and report what they know to the Ontario Provincial Police. “All that is necessary for the triumph of evil is that good men do nothing.” | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 70 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.62.21 |
Ah Dawn, you kiss your mother with that mouth? I don't need to explain to you why I was not there. I got the skinny on the "bitchfest" called the closing, so in fact, I am glad I did not go. Yep you are all right - no clue how to navigate through life and must be completely oblivious to all around me - bang on. Wish me luck cause I obviously need it. Yep, did know that staff spent long periods buying into the CofJ crap. Whatever, they were a bunch of whacko's THATS it. I get the fact that the school was also whacky up until my time - even during my time but their philosophy was being challenged during my time - by staff students etc. I love the fact that I make no points whatsoever to you as a whole - and just dont get the GCC CofJ experience. You are a pack of wolves that also attack anyone that disagree's with your points. You are all unable to look beyond your bitterness for what you went through. "I went to university at 18, got a job and did things on my own." Yeah, that would be life I am sorry to say. If your parents didn't give you a silver spoon then oh-no its time to face life. perceived anger/rants you say I am lodging and read . I don't care if you think I am something that I am not - I disagree with the fact that you all blend your greivances into one. Feeding off each other. There are separate arguements here and yes it is complex without a doubt. | ||
| strength Member Username: strength Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.48.180.176 |
Please stop fighting. | ||
| tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.69.121.31 |
BonnieB and Pandersen - thank you for your well-thought posts. I appreciate your input very much here on the Board. | ||
| alwyswndr New member Username: alwyswndr Post Number: 15 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 76.4.189.213 |
Please don't feed the troll. POS obviously has conflicting posts. His posts are counter-productive and are meant to inflict pain and emotions. I have had a few vehicles I named POS's...can you guess what that stands for? Leave him be and maybe he will go away, because obviously he will not be persuaded to engage in intelligent conversation. | ||
| tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.69.121.31 |
Hi Kate - welcome to the Board and good to see you on here. | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 71 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.62.21 |
Lets attempt to not be so sensitive people...firstly, you collectively have made you positions clear - but refuse to address my real points...but denial was used already I'll just use...er...denial my vocabulary is quite limited so sarcastic I must be. Always wonder, about what - yeah I am a Troll/Piece of Sh*t...too much. Intelligent one-sided conversation is what is going on here. NEVER awknowledging opposite oppinions or statements. Simply focus on the perceived anger - just b/c I don't fluff up my post so not to ruffle any of the feathers on here. Well my friends also attended the event, called me and told me I did not miss a thing. Loved though how Valpy quoted the $50/plate dinner...what an •••. Confrontations abundant...the feedback I got was pretty negative about the mood of certain individuals there on a mission. Sorry to ruin your perception but I actually do have friends that agree...perhaps they are just a little more on the quiet side. BonnieB - I did not intend to mock your pain i.e. on your knee's comment - sorry for making you feel that way - I tend to blah-blah-blah and yadda yadda yadda too much. Light Sessions originated at the CofJ - are you kidding me? Those things are tied to any organized religion, holy cow - I really must be Stooopeed and out of my league here. Conflicting posts - again, oh really? B/c I awknoledge the fact that this is a very complex situation? But again, not intelligent enough for you to understand my position? Is that it? Whatever, obviously everyone here is narrow minded and singular in their goal. You actually think that bonding together and not allowing differing oppinions to make you pause is going to heal you? Have fun with that I wish you all a speedy recovery. Sorry for giving a shite about GCC - I must be an alien to feel this way - god only knows how am I going to go forward now that I have been labelled a Piece of Sh*t??? | ||
| rozpriceenglish Intermediate Member Username: rozpriceenglish Post Number: 115 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 172.166.51.103 |
More press releases: Globe and Mail: http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20071003.GRENVILLE03/TPStory/?query=grenville+christian+college Recorder and Times: http://newsfeed.recorder.ca/cgi-bin/LiveIQue.acgi$rec=23893 (Message edited by rozpriceenglish on October 03, 2007) (Message edited by rozpriceenglish on October 03, 2007) | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 9 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 |
I'm glad to find out now that there was more then one "embedded" journalist there last weekend. Did I miss some super secret post giving us a heads up about this? Because I for one would have loved to know when the media was circling so I could have stayed away... | ||
| survivor1101 New member Username: survivor1101 Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 206.186.121.40 |
PoS, (lol) I got the skinny on the "bitchfest" called the closing, so in fact, I am glad I did not go. Oh, Jason... I got the 'skinny' on the real reason you did not go. I have friends too. So, lie if you must to make yourself look all powerful, but let's not pretend we do not all know the truth. And I see your recent posts as a bunch of kicking the dog out of frustration. I think bonnieb is totally right about you Jason, you seem to have bought the bill of goods that Grenville sold you. Trouble is, you probably use it to get through life. I worry about the people you hurt in the process. Because if you are as vindictive here as you are in life... you must be pretty lonely. | ||
| halhelms Junior Member Username: halhelms Post Number: 49 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 74.93.127.201 |
Jason, I was never at GCC but was a brother at the CoJ for seven years and knew the Haigs and Farnsworths. I understand that in a flame war, both sides solidfy their positions and neither can hear the other. Not having been involved with this, I'd like to ask you to clarify your position without calling you any names. Are you saying there was no abuse? If you do acknowledge that abuse occurred, are you saying it was mild enough not to warrant the attention recently paid to it? Do you understand that people were deeply hurt by the actions of some at the school? Do you see that the dynamic of the school, the acceptance of Cay and Judy's philosophy and tactics, created a situation in which otherwise good people acted ignobly? I further understand that some folks enjoy a good flame war. Is that what's going on here or are there some substantive reasons for your posts? | ||
| susan_margaret New member Username: susan_margaret Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.235.189.173 |
After reading FACtnet for too long with out saying anything, I just want to say: "thanks to all of you who have more guts than I".Yes, it all happened and its kind of Pythonesque to say that it didn't (they have actual FILMS...I wish!) Sorry to be flip. I'm nervous. Thanks, especially breaker-19-girl. You are helping lots of people right now. I'll confess that I was a day student & had the weekends to recuperate. I never agreed with it though, and I still find myself wondering why they were so into the public humiliation stuff. When the Globe article came out it felt like I was being given a huge gift after years of sounding like an insane person. Still, I cried all the next day & had to go into work more unstable than usual. But what the heck. I've lived with myself a long time & I actually like me. I hate to see all the hurt though. There were friends there I genuinely liked who where completely sold on it. I can't slam them. Or great people like Mr MacNeil. I had a little story I was going to share because I thought it was funny but I'll keep it to myself for the moment. I don't want to make light of things just yet. Some ladies had cornered me after I winked at a victim in the midst of a full-blown session. They said some stuff that I actually found pretty comical. Next time. Thanks again everybody for doing this. OK: They said they wouldn't hire me to sit in a window on Yonge Street to entice the men to come in for...you know, I'm thinking: thank-you..?! | ||
| breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 253 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.49.73 |
Susan Margaret: Thank you for your kind words... Please feel free to ctct me... lianeross@porchlight.ca Halhelms: thanks for coming here and trying to help. Your metaphor is appropriate and I hope people see what you are trying so hard to say. | ||
| kate_skinner New member Username: kate_skinner Post Number: 6 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 142.240.200.10 |
I have been reading this site since I saw the "childs confession", so I'm also late and trying to get up to speed. Just an observation -as the closing ceremony got closer, the level of angst went up here. It was evidenced by the incresed name-calling and even visciousness on the part of some individuals. I would like to suggest that there are a lot of people out there that are in real pain right now. (And incredibly stressed-out). Wounds that we thought were healed over have been ripped open; and it seems that they really never healed. We bandaged over them and tried to get on with our lives. I suspect that many are dealing with things now that they thought they had dealt with long ago. To a certain extent, most of us are wounded animals, that's why we're here. We seek a way to mitigate the pain that we didn't realise was eating us up to this day. I know it's hard, but try to have compassion for those dissenting voices. I suspect that some may not even realise how much they hurt. Denial and protection of the abuser is often seen in child abuse cases. I don't know why it wouldn't be applicable here. JUST REMEMBER - THOSE LASHING OUT THE HARDEST MAY NEED OUR HELP THE MOST. | ||
| sheilac Intermediate Member Username: sheilac Post Number: 108 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.54.17.199 |
"THOSE LASHING OUT THE HARDEST MAY NEED OUR HELP THE MOST" Kate I think what you have said here is bang on. | ||
| tiny New member Username: tiny Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 70.50.215.250 |
Article from The Globe and Mail: GRENVILLE CHRISTIAN COLLEGE: ABUSE ALLEGATIONS Church's response likened to residential schools case MICHAEL VALPY October 3, 2007 The Anglican Church's entanglement with Grenville Christian College and its initial reluctance to address abuse allegations at the institution are reminiscent of its mishandling of the aboriginal residential schools case, says an editorial in the church's national newspaper. The editorial, signed by Anglican Journal editor Leanne Larmondin, appears in the October issue of the paper under the headline, When Will Church Learn Lessons About Abuse Scandals? Ms. Larmondin is critical of Bishop George Bruce of the Eastern Ontario diocese, where Grenville is located, for issuing a "pastoral statement" stating that at no time did his diocese have responsibility or control over the school. The statement, she says, was "utterly devoid of any 'pastoral' sentiment" - given that three former headmasters were Anglican priests, the school used the Anglican worship liturgy, bishops and other Anglican dignitaries presided at ceremonial occasions and the school flew the Anglican flag. "It is all too reminiscent of the residential schools system, which saw Canada's mainline [Christian] denominations - including the Anglican Church - operate boarding schools on behalf of a federal government that was implementing a nationwide policy of assimilation of aboriginal people. "When the [residential school] litigation against the church began in the 1990s, the church's defence was that the schools were not theirs: they ran them at the request of the government. That claim did not sit well with some former students who associated the schools with churches and the church members who were in charge." The editorial in the Anglican Journal, which has an independent editorial policy but is sent to every church member in Canada, notes that Bishop Bruce subsequently accepted complaints against two priests still associated with the school and began an inquiry into their behaviour. The Ontario Provincial Police is also conducting a criminal investigation. Turning to the Anglicans' association with Grenville - most of whose staff over the years are alleged to have been avowed members of a Massachusetts religious organization labelled a cult in the U.S. news media - Ms. Larmondin writes that the church "ought to be scrupulous about the groups with whom it associates. "Regardless of whether the Anglican church was a founding body of Grenville, there appeared to be a close relationship between church and school... "Any rumours of misconduct at the institution should have been investigated. It was not a matter of whether the school was an Anglican school, it was thought of as such and the church must protect its integrity and care for society's most vulnerable members." I'm not quite sure what to make of this because I don't know the depth of the Anglican Church's involvement in the school. I know a lot of people are opposed to this guy but he is covering what someone else has said. | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.62.21 |
Marion - oh so your "friends" must have told you about my 8 yr old stepson's father trying to remove him from school on Friday afternoon before GCC closing. Whereupon her son revealed that his father was planning on taking him on a trip, without our knowing, while we were gone to GCC. You must also know that his father is an American citizen which makes the idea of "taking him on a trip" a very scary scenario. When faced with the choice between supporting my fiancee or seeing you....LMFAO it was a very easy choice. I actually would have loved to have been there but unfortunately I decided not to go. I am so glad that your "friends" ensured that you understood my position in not attending. GFY Marion. My biggest sin is not being able to hold my tongue after hearing your complaining of abuse and persecution. You were a frigging MAJOR introvert...you didn't open up to anyone...yeah blame GCC for your own insecurities of course!! There is your out for virtually acting like a mute/homeless person for 5 years and not applying yourself to anything. You are part of the post-83 whinners that annoy the crap out of me. And please get this people Sheila has done a great job of hightening that I threaten physical abuse. I in no way shape or form would EVER do anything close to physical to anyone on here - I have differing oppinions to some and that is it - I can be like a bull in a China shop and do not mince many words and differing outlook on who is to blame for ALL your problems. My position: Firstly, my disdain is for the 83-88 non-staff or CofJ students on here - b/c I knew most of them very well and just dont get this vindictive abuse complaints. ============>.Why not blame your parents? Why make GCC take the fall for your parents not fulling understanding the gravity of what was going on at GCC if it was so bad. I know, and was close to, many parents who did take the time to be at GCC and "get" the message being preached - these are the parents of VERY normal kids who have since left GCC and have been quite successful in life. Parents who did go to getaways with staff to further make/pass judgements on the quality of GCC - no real red flags were out..again other than, our gripeing that we couldn't grope eachother anytime we wanted and couldn't listen to rock music etc. 1) GCC should not take the fall for the "cult" called CofJ ~ FF WAS like a tele evangelist, no doubt, but you either bought his preaching or you just lived through it and stayed away from the CofJ crap. AAAAA) Staff kids or CofJ kids most definitely have my sympathy....but in my time the staff kids were getting that the GCC message was not for them - they were respectful but were standing up and starting to say "hey wait - we have a right to do what we want with our lives..." i.e. The Bayles, Childs, Bushnells etc. they got that GCC was far from perfect. | ||
| priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.62.21 |
BBBBB) Most every kid dropped off at GCC had their own issues already - booze, drugs, trouble at school, parental etc. GCC managed the lot of us the best they knew how. Most individual real issue here is abandonment - being dropped/dumped at the school by parent....but we wouldn't go after our decrepid <sp> and old parents to give them H-E-double toothpicks would we? That wouldn't be fair to them. So lets blame FSquared for being an over the top evangelist - lets blame JJ for being a super bi*ch - or Ms.Case - whatever, you pull the tigers tail you get the claws. CCCCC)Staff members made mistakes, who doesn't, but at the time they THOUGHT that the message they were selling was the right one. The sad thing is that the core messages were really not that harsh. No girlfriends, the supposed 12 inch rule, No rock music, no swearing...etc. Everyone, in my time, is just sooooooooo innocent - give me a break, until I differed in oppinion I was considered a friend of Sheila's...now, I am a physical abuser and a tattle tailing rat who told on anyone while at GCC to get where I wanted to go? LMFAO again, I was in trouble more than most on here. I got chastized and put on discipline MANY MANY times...Shelia's just upset cause she knows that she did tell me what happenned with FSquared - you say he licked your neck!!!!? ROFL & LMFAO, it is just too bad b/c there probably are real mental abuse victims amongst you...and if Sheila's account is one of the pillars of this suit - then it will fail miserably and the ones that matter will be picking up the pieces while Sheila slithers away. If you want to call me a tattle tailer Sheila then I accept that label - cause I am tattling on your deceit and lies. BTW - love how you ignore this and just make obtuse references to me...that is in itself incriminating toots. 3)Even though GCC "bought" the CofJ crap and preached it...it is each individuals responsibility to take what they wanted from those preachings - like it, fine. Don't like it, then in one ear and out the other. 4) Discipline aka abuse? Washing pots? making breakfast? being on silence?...so, was it that hard to figure out? Do your time, check your attitude at the door and don't make it worse and you were off. Repeat and you got it worse - not that difficult really. 5) Light Sessions? Yeah, there were that type of scenario in my time, sort of, standing and getting singled out...wow, who cared? Once again mind your p's & q's and you were fine. There were rules, follow them or you were in shite - again, how difficult is that? Dawn keeps spitting fire & freaking out, obviously forgetting that I admitted long ago that I get the fact that pre-83 was different} and the discipline factor may have been cranked up a notch or two. But hey, I am a uneducated ••• that is unable to make any valid points at all. | ||
| sheilac Intermediate Member Username: sheilac Post Number: 111 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 76.66.72.179 |
I considered you a friend, Jason, until you accused me of lying about the very serious allegations I have made which are the TRUTH. Just because I didn't share it with you at the time doesn't make it a lie. I know from the PM you sent me that you think I am an "EVIL" person but anyone who truly knows me, knows better and that I would *never* accuse an innocent person of such dreadful wrongdoings. I know you feel passionately about this but so do I. And if you notice I haven't taken you off my "friends" list as per your request. There is a message there if you care to look past your anger to see it. There were very few people at GCC that I trusted completely (I'd go so far as to say there was *nobody* I completely trusted since we all know how people could turn on a dime during an intense Light Session). I admit when I responded to you before I was angry and understandably so. I don't think you are a dumb ••••--I just think you are misguided since you admit that you are in no way sure that criminal activity did not take place there but continue to defend it. I, on the other hand, am *positive* that much of what occurred there was criminal by the letter of the law. But I don't want to fight with you anymore. Contrary to what you believe, I am not one of the ringleaders in this crusade for justice although I must say I'll take it as a compliment that you think so. Fyi, at this time, I have not decided whether to proceed with a civil suit. To date, I have been interviewed by the Bishop and have made a statement to the OPP. | ||
| poormanspudding New member Username: poormanspudding Post Number: 11 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
Strength; With all due respect, after reading through your posts, I am curious to know what is driving you in all of this. I meant to respond to your post where you said "I don't mean to brag but I was the first student to stage a hunger strike in protest..." The ego knows no bounds. You have jockied into a rather important position in all of this: getting things started with the Bishop, trying to become an authority on all things cultish, trying to rally your class to demand councillors to be available at the closing to assist those who "melt down". You are blessed with the ability to "whip" up emotions. I could swallow all this if I knew it was coming from someone who was incredibly damaged at GCC. But, I've never heard your story. What abuses did you suffer at GCC? I was in school with you and for the life of me, I can't remember you ever being disaplined, singled out in light sessions or "abused" as others describe it here. If I've missed reading your story somewhere on this site, let me know. There are so many posts. | ||
| 87expellee New member Username: 87expellee Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 66.78.124.239 |
Jason Price... You wrote: "All I know is that some coward/dumbass keeps threatening me through annonomous emails...please be a guy, please be a guy" You are hoping the emailer is male... why??? Also, you said to me: "There is more than enough room at the closing.." A mutual friend of ours has concluded that this was a veiled threat to me. You then said: "87....did some re-reading and figured out you are female - so the testosterone levels have decreased over here...so why don't you just be scared to talk to me at the reunion, cause I am sooooooo scary and angry, and we'll leave it at that. " Again, you are insinuating that if I had been male... There are other examples that I will leave alone to protect others privacy, but suffice it to say that you don't know your 'friends' as well as you think you do. Also, I would like to know what you are hoping to gain by these posts. Are you looking for a fight? Do you even believe them yourself? How could you? You were there, you saw it all. Where do you get off telling people (minors at the time) how they should have processed cultish ramblings by an authority figure? Why should we have had to put up with that 'crap' when we were paying them a lot of money to give us an education. This post isn't really for your benefit so there is no need to answer... | ||
| mandatoryfun New member Username: mandatoryfun Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 99.231.188.51 |
Poormanspudding, you said to Strength: "I could swallow all this if I knew it was coming from someone who was incredibly damaged at GCC. But, I've never heard your story. What abuses did you suffer at GCC? I was in school with you and for the life of me, I can't remember you ever being disaplined [sic], singled out in light sessions or 'abused' as others describe it here." Hey, can I take the liberty of putting words in your mouth by suggesting you could "swallow all this" if you heard from people who were just sort of damaged, or a little damaged, or somewhat damaged? Would that do the trick? Leaving aside for a second that wise people have already said here -- with justifiable finality, I think -- that it's problematic to sit around this forum and demand people's story before they are taken seriously, I still think your point is important, though I don't have any doubts about Strength's actions. In fact, I find her brave. So what about me? I was never on 'D' and never singled out in a light session, suffered no one instance of abuse that set me up for a lifetime of pain. But I think I have a story that helps me explain why the actions of Strength and others should be taken, and I want to tell it to you. So far, though, I don't know how to put it down yet even though I've had years to be miserable about it, ha ha. Hmmmm, I don't know what to say right now other than I understand where you're coming from. Maybe, if you have time, you could read as much of FACTnet as possible. While you're doing that, I will think how I can speak to your post in the place of or along with Strength. | ||
| gcc_1981_grad Junior Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 48 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.51.137.96 |
Presently I am 46 years old. I live and work in down town Toronto. I have a family and manage a successful organization in the city. Through my experiences in life I have come to believe, maybe naively, that all of us are born with the potential to live a full and enriched life. Unfortunately, through the process of interacting with other humans we can prevent each other from reaching this potential. Perhaps that is humanities greatest irony – we all wish to live an enriched life – but we all prevent each other from doing so. GCC has been an experience for me that has traumatized me and has stunted my own emotional and spiritual growth. The experience has also left intellectual, spiritual and emotional wounds. There are many others who I share this unfortunate state with. Seldom in life am I given the opportunity to tackle issues that have left a residue of damage with such clarity. FACTnet has been the catalysis for this opportunity. I cannot express how thankful I am that I came across this site. Initially, I was not interested in blaming anyone person for my experience at GCC. I was only interesting in trying to understand why this has happened. Being able to tell of my experience with GCC anonymously and to be able to hear of other’s anonymously has allowed me to concentrate on the stories without prefacing them with a preconceived idea of the person telling the story. This has been a gift – as it has allowed me to concentrate on the themes and content of the stories and gain some understanding of why this has happened and more importantly, it has both validated my experience and helped me heal. I realize that rarely in life is anyone given such a gift – so I embraced it whole heartily. I wish to thank everyone for sharing with me. I am truly thankful. Through this process of sharing the Bishop became interested, the OPP became interested and the Media became interested. I felt it was my responsibility as an adult to talk to the press, talk to the OPP, talk to the Bishop. I know there are a number of individuals who have had far more traumatic experiences at GCC than I have had, but have chosen to not go public. I think their reasons for not going public has to do with believing others will suffer from their testimonies. But in order to validate the wounds that were caused at GCC I do believe we do need to brake down the protective walls and let others in to see what has happened. I really think that if this is not done it will be an injustice to all of the students who have had to endue a stunted life because of their relationship to the school. The staff of GCC were all adults; they all had the opportunity to make choices. They all had to opportunity to not take part in a light session, to not take part in a paddling, to not torment or force children to make damaging choices. I understand group dynamics, but I also understand personal responsibility. I would like think that teachers in an Ontario school would be able to set an example by being of enough mental capacity to be able to make individual choices, rather than succumbing to the momentum of the masses. | ||
| poormanspudding New member Username: poormanspudding Post Number: 13 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
Hi gcc_1981_grad; Thank you for your thoughtful post. I am trying to get my mind around the piece about adults having a choice whether to participate in something or not. This is the single biggest question for me. People would say to me "why didn't you just leave" -- it was not that simple. If you were told often enough (starting at a vulnerable age especially) that left to your own devices you wouldn't amount to anything. And you were told often that you had a call on your life to be a part of the Community, that in itself has enormous ramifications. It implies that it is "God's will". By disobeying "God's will" I would risk going to hell and it was a risk I was too afraid to take. I believed this "doctrine" whole heartedly. I never questioned the rightness or wrongness of what we were doing. I did not like it, I was afraid of it, I was very angry much of the time -- but I was held fast by the threat of going to hell. I know this sounds like tired cliche but it very real to me and guided me for 25 years. When I disagreed with what was done -- I did not have the freedom to run away or fight back. Some people were able to leave and somehow they were able to shake the "going to hell" part. I could not. I was scared to death. So my time at GCC was spent, for the most part, in fear. Fear of getting in trouble, fear of being out of the will of God, fear that I could not live outside of the Community and live to good purpose. I am sorry to be rambling here... I just want people to understand the depth of fear some of us lived in. Actually, I should just speak for myself -- the depth of fear I lived in. | ||
| gcc_1981_grad Junior Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 49 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.51.137.96 |
I do understand how a person can be guided by fear. It is not a very freeing existence. These days - it is very common to live in fear - I have heard of some calling this time in history as being the time of "living in fear". There are a number of studies on fear an it's effects on humans. But what I do not understand is even when someone can identify that fear controlled them, do they continue to allow it to do so. In the past, living at GCC - if it meant living in fear - was not good. Why now, are people still allowing fear to guide them in the judgment on how to deal with this mess? | ||
| poormanspudding New member Username: poormanspudding Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
Would you be willing to talk to me about this privately? poormanspudding@hotmail.com | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
Hello All! I have read every post over the past several months and have a mixed bag of emotions concerning not what happened many years ago in so many lives, but what has happened here. I would love to understand what caused this forum of healing to become what it has become and what it has accomplished. Firstly, my absolute respect to individuals who have found healing from discussion. I would like to determine what is the healing process here on this forum. Is it discussing past events, understanding them and knowing that you are not to blame? Is healing involving the press to give attention to your pain or make the situation public to have recognition? Is healing seeking revenge? Revenge through public embarrassment, litigation, church inquiries or inviting police charges? I can see why several Factnet participants are now weary at the onslaught of attacks from agitated lurkers gone posters. It appears they wanted one thing only. Healing through discussion. Through that, a few decided to involve the media. Is that what you wanted, the media? I heard no one say NO MEDIA!!!! In fact to many it was a great idea if you could get the attention.} Many fine GCC staff are accused of crimes by not stopping them. That's fair. Then you all are accused of allowing the press invasion by not opposing it before it happened. If we can accept this then I move on. So we all wanted the healing and media attention to provide more healing. Collateral damage is what has occurred here. To get the healing taken to a new level, the media has caused pain to many innocent people. That is collateral damage, and no one here has a problem with it? That would be in my opinion reckless. Go after an individual that hurt you yes, but take out an entire family to make you heal? I just do not understand. To get back at Dan O. or FF. lets destroy Ken M. Can someone please explain the logic of allowing this to happen here. Cindy (Sinful Sindy as I was so many times called) | ||
| papillon Member Username: papillon Post Number: 67 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 24.40.146.45 |
Healing is a personal process that is different for every person. The media has been "outing" abuse at the CoJ over the course of a few decades now. Prominent people within the CoJ went to the media in the very early '80s. This discussion board was originally, primarily about the CoJ. It's only become so GCC-related since the closing, which wasn't due to this board. A public discussion board on the Internet is, by definition, a public forum. Your post is another attempt to blame the victims. If no abuse had occurred, there wouldn't have been a media story to begin with. | ||
| strength Member Username: strength Post Number: 55 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.71.23.128 |
Poormanspudding; I'm sorry about the way I told my hunger-strike story. I meant it to sound silly and funny, but I now see how you might have found it egotistical. You've asked me a lot of questions in your post. My overall explanation is that I have been trying to understand how so many good people got caught up in a power dynamic which led to such pain. With this as my goal, I reached out to the Anglican Church authorities to request that the issues be investigated, and if possible, that supports be put in place to prevent further pain. I hope this is helpful, and thanks for your feedback. | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
So as soon as someone attempts to ask simple logical questions it is an attack Papillion? Can I call you pappy? I strongly disagree with your logic of "If no abuse had occurred, there wouldn't have been a media story to begin with." That is an assumption pappy or paps that begs the question why did the Globe and Mail (a liberal newspaper) pick it up. Could it be that there is an election in Ontario? Could it be that the conservative party included in their platform "funding to religious private schools"? Could it be that a liberal paper would run stories that would give Ontario voters an ill feeling toward funding these schools? Am I asking intersting questions paps? How about discussing that and then you may understand that your abuse must have happened cause the press ran with it is kind of lame. Use your noggin pappy. think of what is really happening. Do you need proof? Open up the globe and mail from Monday October 1st and lets play teacher/student. Flip to A7 and what do you see? Read the story beside the GCC story? Let me help you. "Christian Brother faces new abuse claim". Hey paps ask why they would run these stories side by side. Are you people becoming enlightened? Valpy is making you feel good by using you. Hey it works. The Conservative party just dropped the funding issue from their platform. Too late. Prediction: Another Liberal Government on October 10th. Lets thank Valpy. No lets thank the abused here. This forum is no longer about hurt. You all lost the right to that when you got the press involved. Ask Lianne Ross if she feels the forum has become corupt to the reality of what has occurred. She wants to sign off but is addicted to the lure of more healing even amongst the flaming. Am I way out on this guys? I am just a stupid chick sitting in the cheap seats wondering how this all will play out and wondering why. | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.101.55.104 |
It's not though papillon. Absolutely no one was blamed in sinderella's post, she merely raises a an incredibly valid point that can't be addressed enough. When I was at the closing weekend talking to former teachers and staff members I saw several of their children who would be in middle school or high school. If they still live in the Brockville area they now not only have to make the same adjustment many of you did of going to a public school after being at Grenville, but with that the incredible weight of being known as the "cult" kid even though they weren't even born when by all accounts most of the abuse occurred... | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
Thank You late lights but in the "name of healing" those peoples feelings are expendible. They are the walking collateral damage. Everyone here who has relished and marvelled at all the attention you know have ask that 9 year old little boy why they are being bullied at their new school for being a "Cultee". In the name of healing!!!!!!! Suffer the little children. | ||
| 87expellee New member Username: 87expellee Post Number: 18 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 66.78.124.239 |
Sindy, I guess then, by your own hypothesis, that you are just as guilty as everyone else for not suggesting the media not be involved. How dare you suggest that some innocents potentially being ostracized overrules criminals being brought to justice. This may be about healing to some, but it is about much more to many. And money is not what I am talking about. Besides, thanks to the fools in charge there is no money to be had anyway. In fact, I want to thank you for making our resolve that much stronger. Frankly, I could care less about the media's motives, and, from my experience, the last thing I want to see is private religious schools getting funded.. lol. ARE YOU BECOMING ENLIGHTENED????? | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 15 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.101.55.104 |
I'm here for answers. If it's not healing you're after 87expellee, then what is the "much more" that you seek? | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 7 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
87 Expellee I am new here so I am not guilty of anything. For the record, I absolutely oppose any media involvement. You call them criminals? Have they been convicted yet? Do you see how your words can distort the truth? The hundreds of people reading this would automatically assume they are criminals. There are no charges and there will be no charges until they are able to charge. 87expellee, you fail to answer my questions. You only lash out. Speaks volumes....... | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 70 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 170.215.130.223 |
This whole thing just breaks my heart. Why are some of you so angry? If this is all one huge lie, won't the truth be uncovered eventually? If none of these stories are true, won't that come out in the wash? I just don't understand the intense anger. Why do you care if the media is involved? What is the problem with the story being told? You act like you're so afraid that people who acted improperly are going to be hurt by this being publicized. What about those who were hurt by this system? Do they not have the right to exposure simply for the purpose of education and justice? What about those who have suffered emotionally and psychologically and physically? You really think that they should all be quiet and not expose the practices of this group? I just don't get it! "Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it". No other reason for publicity is needed in my opinion. | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 16 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.101.55.104 |
I find it hard to believe the Globe would run as many stories advertising they were wrong, as they have right now. Plus what about the members of staff who have only been there the past few years and weren't involved in any of this. I seriously doubt there is much demand for teachers who worked at a school where "cult like practices" occurred, even if it was years and years before they worked there. Lastly by my count there have been five headmasters, why is it that only two of them have been targeted so far, when one of those two has only been headmaster for the past two years. | ||
| 87expellee New member Username: 87expellee Post Number: 19 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 66.78.124.239 |
I am not here to answer your questions. I don't see you asking any regardless. What I see is you badgering people in the hopes that they slip up and make an emotional post so you can jump down their throats. I was speaking theoretically regarding criminals and stand by it. Should criminal acts be overlooked to protect innocents from being ostracized? | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 8 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
BonnieB Breaks my heart as well. I have no anger. I have questions. Many questions without responses to them. I do get a sense that asking questions is seen as confrontational. I just want an open discussion on what has happened. The attacks indicate to me, an unwillingness to engage in reality. The reality is clear. This forum no longer has the right to deal with pain. No more rights than actor-want-to-be's want to wrestle someone on Springer for their healing....Beads are the bonus. This forum lost that right when it 100 percent supported Valpy and his political agenda. Hey Valpy.... You laughing hard? You know I got you pegged. You laugh because you use people, and the people here are prime picking for your political agenda. You know you have won the election so how about concentrating on something that has substance. I love your story. I love how you introduce facts with an end result in mind. Why mention $50.00 a plate dinner in the article. Were you attempting to make the school appear greedy for money in its death? You had no problem paying it, but then again you also never got to eat the food. You got kicked out for being..... YOU. LOL Sorry pal, you need another cover. Lose the black lid. It makes you look creepy. Like an abuser of sorts. When will someone answer my questions with logical answers not an attack on my motives. I have not attacked anyone personally (except Roz the snake). Only questions. Late lights? Are you the only one with here with a solid ability to reason? Where are the rest? | ||
| mandatoryfun New member Username: mandatoryfun Post Number: 14 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 99.231.188.51 |
Hey There, Regarding how true the messages of this board and the recent Globe and Mail press coverage are: If all of the stories, impressions and memories printed so far turned out to be total exaggeration; if each person on this board was revealed to be a whiner with a selective memory; hell, if it was only a tenth as bad as you all say, EVEN THEN I would be able to stand before anyone I’ve met in this world and tell them that real psychological damage was done to people every day in the name of God. For those of you who think it’s being overstated or fabricated, I’m just one more voice -- and listen or don’t, as you like -- but it isn’t. I was there for many years and I saw GCC/CofJ destroy people. Good people, actually. It was kinda evil, and this forum has benefited my life enormously. I can’t believe these damn nightmares are back, though. I had ‘em down to one a year. <sigh> | ||
| edgeandrea New member Username: edgeandrea Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.225.84.158 |
hey late lights... Its always nice to be coherant when trying to make a point...could you try and string a proper sentence together? What exactly are you trying to say? The most recent headmaster was named...because he was the most recent headmaster. His predecessor was named as he was the headmaster and leader during GCC's most troubled and abusive period. The headmaster who preceded him has also been named on this site. Teacher's who worked there recently will do what anyone does who has a job that doesn't work out; apply for something new and do their best to make a case for themselves during their interview. The Globe...advertising that they were wrong? WTF? Ummm, not sure where you're going with that one, but I would hazard to say that they have pretty elaborate procedures in place to ensure that they don't "advertise that they were wrong" or...let me translate... "their reporting is fair and accurate". Catch up on your reading and lay off the sauce so we can make some sense of your ramblings. Oh and sinderella, you have been quite active tonight, I am waiting for a reply. What's wrong, not hearing from the people you really want to pick on? | ||
| tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.69.121.31 |
"I would like to determine what is the healing process here on this forum. Is it discussing past events, understanding them and knowing that you are not to blame?" It could be a form of healing for some, and maybe not... "Is healing involving the press to give attention to your pain or make the situation public to have recognition?" Again it could be for some and maybe not for others. "Is healing seeking revenge? Revenge through public embarrassment, litigation, church inquiries or inviting police charges?" It could be for some and may not be for others. Everyone has their own way of dealing with their feelings, whether it is through the form of the media, a personal therapist or talking to your dog, ...it's all personal.... People here are trying to share their stories and their feelings of their own experiences and obviously want answers. I feel this forum is about sharing, not putting down people, not arguing about who was on discipline the longest or whether there is an Ontario election or who wants to be on Dr. Phil...it is just about sharing without people judging each other's stories. | ||
| late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 17 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 74.101.55.104 |
Fair enough.. This one goes out to edgeandrea (also the Office is over now, so you get my full and undivided attention. Congrats!) (in response to bonnieb's posts, and now a few other since, that if these claims turn out to be false, what will a few stories in the paper matter) I find it hard to believe the Globe would run as many, or even one story as predominately advertising their mistake in covering the ongoing Grenville saga as they have published so far. If their reporting is so fair and accurate, why couldn't Valpy name himself as the reporter who was asked to leave the closing weekend? I also wonder about members of staff who have only been employed the past few years at Grenville and weren't involved in any of this. I seriously doubt there is much demand for teachers who worked at a school where "cult like practices" occurred, even if it was years and years before they worked there. I'd like to think they would be able to make their case in an interview, but would you want your children to be taught by someone linked to a "cult"? Lastly, there have been FIVE headmasters at Grenville total (capitalized as you seemed to miss it the first time edgeandrea). It seems as though the last headmaster at Grenville has been targeted because of the position he happens to hold both at Grenville and with the church. Which is I guess is fortunate for the other two headmasters as I haven't seen their names printed at all by the "fair and accurate" Globe and Mail. } | ||
| edgeandrea New member Username: edgeandrea Post Number: 9 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.225.84.158 |
5 Headmasters. 3 who were affiliated with the Anglican church and the community of Jesus. 2 who were (someone will correct me if I am wrong I am SURE) interm academics and administrators who did not carry out the ideologies of the Haig/Farnsworth era. Mintz, as the most recent leader of the school is in the unfortunate position of having to answer to 30 years of issues, whether he was involved or not. Bad luck for innocent teachers who will be looking for work. Bad luck for innocent students who were harassed and humiliated for no reasonable reason. •••• happens, collateral damage, call it what you will. People who suffered deserve the right to seek answers and vindication. Writers often write in third person, commen practise when "reporting". If thats your big example for "advertising their mistake" I would stick with watching the Office and stay away from making sweeping statements. Night! | ||
| nochor New member Username: nochor Post Number: 3 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.193.90.67 |
7 headmasters I think: Snure/Haig/Farnsworth Phelan McNeil Dargie Mintz | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 10 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
87 Ex pel eee wrote "I am not here to answer your questions. I don't see you asking any regardless" Read my posts.... the ones with all the question marks??????? 87 Ex pel eee wrote "What I see is you badgering people in the hopes that they slip up and make an emotional post so you can jump down their throats." No, what I see is unanswered questions. Those who see questions as a threat instead of as a logical approach to a one sided bombardment, have never been through the court system. People like you burned innocent people at the stake in the name of the greater good. It is my opinion that this process of a witch hunt, is a no better process that how any of the abused were treated. You seek proportional response to say "see how you like it" and who gives a rats arsee if everyone around you are hurt. We were so now we are even" 87 Ex pel eee wrote "I was speaking theoretically regarding criminals and stand by it. Should criminal acts be overlooked to protect innocents from being ostracized?" No.. YOU CALLED THEM CRIMINALS. So stand by your prejudice. Criminal acts should not be ostracized. I am against any criminal acts as it jeopardizes our security and well being. Are suicide bombers justified in hurting innocent people for their cause. If any abuse took place then those abused call the police. The police will do their investigation and lay charges. However that is not what took place. Everyone is being called criminals in the court of public opinion in the name of healing. "The end has justified the means", is this your logic 87-Ex-pillee | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 11 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
Man da Tory (Conservative name again..... sigh... I am seeing a trend in name picking here) I am not even saying things did not happen. I believe things did happen, heck, they happened to me as well. That is not my point. Take a few minutes and read back my posts. Have I ever said they did not happen? Why is everyone so defensive when simple logical questions are asked of you. If someone would make an accusation about something you did, would your lawyer not have the right to ask questions? Stop being so defensive. My healing costs me $250.00 per hour and Valpy is not in the room. (Last time I saw Valpy his name was Mike West or was it GUEST OF ROZ PRICE ENGLISH? Dunno) I just want to know, if by definition of the law, during the period of time the alleged abuses occurred, if the the incidents were abuse according to the law. I am happy this forum has benefited your life at the sacrifice of everyone else's life. Good for you. Revenge is sweet and oh so healing. If you were abused call the police. The police answers to you, not Valpy's one sided, politically motivated words. Am I making sense to anyone? Please.... | ||
| certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 55 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 96.231.95.81 |
Sinderella, Criminal acts did take place at Grenville Christian College and I have been interviewed by the police. How dare YOU say such things did not happen! I encourage everyone with information to contact the OPP and not let the anger and intimidation of others deter you from fulfilling your civic and moral duty. It would be tragic if such people succeeded in getting victims of abuse to withhold valuable information to this investigation. | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 12 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
Tabby69, Thank you. You are one of a few who is making sense. So what you are saying is the healing process can be anything? So if I was hurt at my husband for cheating on me, I could find healing in fitting him with a new pair of cement slippers and sending him for a swim in the lake? Illegal yes but oh what healing! Is this what this is all about.. Cement Slippers? | ||
| gcc_1981_grad Junior Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 50 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.52.180.108 |
Sinderella - It would be safe for you to assume that individuals were speaking of weird incidents that occurred at GCC that sounded as if the law was broken - because of this the media, the lawyers and the OPP took interest. Their investigation is making people uncomfortable. You can also assume that at the end of the day an honest legacy of GCC will be in place. The seeds of how people will react to this legacy seemed to be already planted. There will be people who support it and people who reject it. Some will be very passionate in their views. What is it that you want people who have spoken to the media to say to you now? | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 13 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
certavi_is_bitci When did I say criminal acts did not happen? Never said that. You put words in my posts that do not exist. You are suffering from Valpy's syndrome. Right person wrong name. I said they are not criminals until charged and convicted. Then they are criminals. You call them criminal acts. I only question if indeed what is being alleged is a criminal act. That's all. The police will determine that. Pop a pill and take a deep breath. You have Factnet posters fatigue. Let me ask you a question: If after a police investigation, if no charges are laid in connection to the allegations, will you and everyone else who wants justice give your keyboard a rest? You must be pounding hard on them. | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 14 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
Hey GCC 1981 Grad. I have respect for you and the manner in which you respond, unlike some. You asked "What is it that you want people who have spoken to the media to say to you now? YES!!!!!! I would like them to answer my questions. Not a difficult process. Media, especially print media is a one way street. Television or Radio interviews are two way. Police investigations are a traffic circle. Can I not ask the same questions a detective would ask in the course of an investigation or will they be treated with the same defensive anger I am subjected to? By the way Richard Van Dusen, that zit that popped and bleed while you had your arse whacked some 30 years ago (when you were abused). Has it gone away? I hated my teenage zits. They always bleed under extreme pressure. Just curious. I want to sue the Montreal school system myself for all that redness on my hands caused by that strap. It hurt bad. I am lucky zits do not appear on the palms of our hands, otherwise I would have had bleeding as well, like you did. | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 71 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 170.215.130.223 |
Sinderella, Let me share this with you. In 1999, after being married for 9 years, my husband assaulted me, beat me, ripped my hair out by the roots and held a gun to my head for several hours. He had children not living with us and a mother who did live with us. Through a series of events, the police became involved, hostage negotiators secured my release, and my husband went to jail. Because of a public venue (the police scanner and my statement to the police) the press heard about my situation and wrote a story about what happened to me. It was dramatized to a degree because there were some weird religious things that he did during the assault. His children were mortified at school because of the criminal acts of their father. His mother ended up without a home. I, myself, had to start over and had a long road of recovery in front of me, both physically and psychologically. I ask you now...should I not have told the police the truth about what he did because of the affect HIS actions would have on "innocent people"? Should I have been angry at the media for writing the story which they had every right to do? Should I have asked the judge to set him free because it would have been wrong for my healing to be dependent, in part, on his taking responsibility for his actions and suffering legal consequences for breaking the law? Did I pursue other types of healing, like support groups, online forums for victims of domestic abuse and counselling? Yes. Was part of my healing exposing the real problem of domestic violence? Yes. Was part of my healing knowing that he was being punished, AS HE SHOULD BE? yes. All of this is applicable to the GCC issue and the "questions" that you raise. When people break the law or even push the envelope, innocent people suffer...some by the act and some by the fallout from the act. It is illogical to expect those injured by the act to do nothing, as if it is their responsibility to protect those who may be injured by the fallout. The TOTAL responsibility for the injury rests on the shoulders of those who committed the act. Period. Did this help to answer your questions? | ||
| gcc_1981_grad Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 52 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.52.180.108 |
you have an odd way of displaying your respect. Good luck in your quest | ||
| purgatory Member Username: purgatory Post Number: 59 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 65.95.148.70 |
I think some people may be responding to you with anger, because they feel you are personally attacking them. I think you went a little overboard in mocking Richard about the abuse he endurd 30 years ago. While I was never physically abused at GCC it just sickens me to think a former student was hit so many times that he actually bled. I find no humour in that, an although I love a little sarcasm I could never be sarcastic about a young person being treated like that.Richard -if you are reading please know that I am so sorry to hear this happened to you-it should never have happened-whether at the time it was legal or not is irrelevant.Many things throughout history was acceptable/legal, but that does not make it just.Many laws have been changed over the years, because people realized certain laws in place needed to be changed. Cindy all I ask of you is to try to have some compassion for people, and go easy on the sarcasm. | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 16 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
Purgy wrote "I could never be sarcastic about a young person being treated like that." I agree 100 percent. My sympathy goes out to anyone who endured that pain. I mean that. I would go back and beat them when they least expect it.. My comment to Richard and the manner I stated it was meant to enlighten the masses by attempting to pull out the truth here. To paddle or strap little children was acceptable in the late 70's. No law against that. There is today. To say he was beaten until he was bleeding is horrible and I truly believe Richard's story 100%. Again my heart goes out to you. Let the truth prevail here. Richard was it a broken zit that caused the bleeding? Lets state that facts. If I am wrong then I will apologize. It's getting hot in here! | ||
| purgatory Member Username: purgatory Post Number: 61 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 65.95.148.70 |
I think that what caused the bleeding was from being hit so many times-nothing to do with Zits as you so like to elude. As mentioned in an earlier thread yes to paddle or use the strap was legal during that time period-however that does not make it right.Richard once again I am sorry this happened to you whether it was legal or not. | ||
| strength Member Username: strength Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 69.156.2.152 |
Over the past three decades, there were people who came forward to express concern about GCC. If the church authorities (and others in power) had investigated these concerns at the time, this situation would have been nipped in the bud. Instead it was ignored and allowed to fester. Now it is exploding. And yes, there are many people caught in the painful wake of the explosion. Lets put our energies into figuring out: a) Why it was ALLOWED to fester. b) Why it happened in the first place. Lets ask; "Who knew what?" and "Who was responsible to act on what they knew?" .... We ALL have the prerogative to seek the answers to these questions. I believe that earlier intervention have prevented the catastrophe befalling those people caught in the wake. We know that so many people are suffering.... alleged victims, the accused, their children, those who are merely associated with GCC, etc, etc, etc. Lets stop fighting about it, and do what we can to get to the bottom of WHY it all was allowed to happen. | ||
| jes_noonan Intermediate Member Username: jes_noonan Post Number: 116 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 67.70.18.204 |
I think that it's fair to say that we are all in agreement with the fact that there was abuse at the school. Was it criminal? The OPP will have a say in establishing that. If they find that it was a criminal act, then we all have a fairly good idea of where it will go from there. Let's assume for a moment that that they don't though. Does that mean that they are absolved of responsibility for what did happen and the ensuing consequences? No. The courts will decide that. These are two issues which, in my opinion, should be steered clear of on this site as they are out of our hands now. Suffice to say that over time, we will get an answer to both. On a tangent, some thoughts on the closing and post-closing: for obvious reasons, going through the school at the closing was awkward and weird, but having the chance to see old friends made it really worthwhile. That evening at the Keystorm, it was brought to my attention that apparently general consensus is that I was the mastermind behind the recent media involvement. Fine...whatever. I'll bear that cross if need be. Having said that, it has somewhat changed my perspective on some issues. My stance is pretty clear on most issues and I respect the opinions of those who don't agree with me. I may not respect the way they go about voicing them per se, but I respect them. Further to that, I respect those who have the balls to stand behind what they say or do. One thing above anything else I've noticed both at and since the closing is that there are quite a few people who are only brave when they can't be faced or recognized...typical of the internet. I realize that for some there's a very good reason for it, but for the most part my view is this: if you're going to call people out, fair is fair and you should let them know who in the •••• they're dealing with. Case in point: at the keystorm last weekend, Bob Creighton and I had a chat. Obviously, we don't share a lot of the same opinions. Having said that, we had a good, constructive talk. We both understood one another's position and respected it. I think that it's safe to say that we parted ways on good terms. I realize that many on here are doing nothing more than expressing thoughts and sharing feelings without attacking others....that's cool, I have no problems with that. After all, it was the whole reason as to why Ruth started this site. | ||
| strength Member Username: strength Post Number: 58 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 69.156.2.152 |
I would just like to say thanks to all those people who are working towards bringing the truth to light. This includes those who have told their story on Factnet, those who have written letters to the Anglican Church, those who are talking to the OPP, and those who have facilitated media involvement. Thank-you for your efforts. It is really important that people take a stand when they believe that injustice has been done. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise. | ||
| sandrabrownearly Junior Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 48 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 162.83.61.245 |
When I read Richard's story and he gets to the part where he tells Mr. Christmas that it was a zit, I assumed (yes, assumed...not a good thing to do) that he said that out of fear. "After class I went to the washroom to see if I could take a look at my rear. My underpants were soaked though with blood. It took awhile to heal from this." He stated that his underpants were soaked through with blood. Soaked...in my mind, that's not a zit. But, as previously stated, assuming leads to trouble. It would be nice if Richard would clarify, but beating him until he "could not sit down properly" ...in my book, that alone crosses the line and is abuse. I've been "paddled" several times at home as we were affiliated with the C of J and my parents were "encouraged" to do so. Never had any bruising, never had any trouble sitting afterwards. Paddling/spanking is different than beating. Just my opinion... | ||
| 87expellee New member Username: 87expellee Post Number: 20 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 66.78.117.118 |
OK Sindy, I have reread all of your posts and have come to the conclusion that you asked only two questions in total. 1.) You wanted to know how the healing process worked. Tabby answered it. It is different for every person. My personal motives are simple: to protect the integrity of this forum and not allow bullying and intimidation by the likes of you to scare people off and abuse them further. 2.) Valpy and his agenda. I already answered that one. Not our concern. As for the criminals part. I refer you to the Department of Justice - Canada, including, but certainly not limited to: "Emotional abuse involves harming a child's sense of self. It includes acts (or omissions) that result in, or place a child at risk of, serious behavioural, cognitive, emotional or mental health problems. For example, emotional abuse may include verbal threats, social isolation, intimidation, exploitation, or routinely making unreasonable demands. It also includes terrorizing a child, or exposing them to family violence." Nearly all of these factors were omnipresent at GCC. Further to this, we had no way of escaping it even for a moment. Children on the outside world could escape the abuse for periods of time by going to school, extracurricular activities, etc. Not to mention the fact we were paying for this kind of treatment! Can you not ask questions a detective would ask? Are you a detective conducting a criminal investigation? If not, then the answer is a flat NO. Also, this is neither the time nor place for the type of sarcasm you have been exhibiting. I take great exception to it. late_lights: The last headmaster of GCC put his own head on the block when he said "the allegations were without foundation" poormanspudding: the difference is the staff were ADULTS and CHOSE to be there, regardless of whether they were brainwashed or not. (Message edited by 87expellee on October 05, 2007) | ||
| poormanspudding New member Username: poormanspudding Post Number: 18 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 64.40.180.98 |
87expellee said: "the difference is the staff were ADULTS and CHOSE to be there, regardless of whether they were brainwashed or not". I agree -- initially they made the decision to move there but that is where it ends. That was their last act of free will. The indoctrination wove a web that kept getting tighter and tighter (by this I mean the breaking down of people's psychological and emotional selves)until there was nothing left of the essence of who they were as people. This is classic abuse. Just like the woman who thought she married her prince charming only to find herself, 10 years later, a shell of a person, beaten and bruised. Try to tell her her husband is an abuser. Try to get her to move out. She can't because she was fed lies that she deserved it, that she couldn't live without his protection, that she couldn't make it on her own. This is the scenario that played out at GCC. I've read it in post after post. The only difference I see between the staff experience vs. the student experience is that no staff (that I know of) was paddled or strapped but all were psychologically and emotionally abused.} | ||
| tellitlikeitis Junior Member Username: tellitlikeitis Post Number: 32 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.97.223.168 |
Sinderella: A question, a comment, and an observation. A.) Why are you picking usernames apart and adding snarky commentary about them? B.): This is a strong accusation to be posting so flippantly. Nothing that has been written has provoked this kind of reply. "People like you burned innocent people at the stake in the name of the greater good. It is my opinion that this process of a witch hunt, is a no better process that how any of the abused were treated." Observation: Back when this board originally started (and I realize you've read every single post) not everyone agreed on the topics, the issues, or others points of view. There was, however, a VAST amount of listening, good discussion (without resorting to sarcasm and name calling), and most importantly an effort to at least see what someone else might be saying. Of course there were some exceptions, but in the past several weeks the level of discourse on this board has sunk to (as a friend said) the middle-school lunch table. It's a GIVEN that all topics on these boards have the ability to be emotionally flammable and that people on both sides have strong feelings, thoughts and emotions. But with postings like "People like you burned innocent people at the stake in the name of the greater good....." there's really no point to a discussion board. . . .at least until people can find a way to get the emotional heat expressed prior to posting on the board. For a discussion to ensue both sides need to be able to listen. (Message edited by tellitlikeitis on October 05, 2007) | ||
| purgatory Member Username: purgatory Post Number: 63 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 65.95.148.70 |
Thank-you to tellitlikeitis, and,87expellee for havingsuch clarity when addressing Sinderella, and doing so with such integrity eg. no name calling or flippant sarcastic remarks. I had to leave for awhile, because I was starting to feel rather drained by it all.Just out of curiosity where is Sinderella when people on here are actually having a conversation , and trying to figure out why this happened, and how to prevent it from ever happening again...After all the name calling, sarcasm, and blanket statements -she seemed to just disappear. Leads me to wonder if Sinderella truly wanted to understand ll of this in the first place???? | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
Tel litli keitis, In answer to your questions: A) Why not? B) You said "Back when this board originally started...." Yes back then..... way back then, before the greed for attention began with the press, life was simple was it not? I am hurt, listen to me, compare notes and we feel better..... Right? But then lets introduce our newest friend Mr. Globe and Mail. A friend with another agenda, I may add. But as 87Exprelle said "Frankly, I could care less about the media's motives, and, from my experience, the last thing I want to see is private religious schools getting funded.." Sounds like an agenda to me (A Liberal perhaps?). Hey not only lets make him our friend, so he can further our causes.... LETS INVITE HIM TO THE CLOSING CEREMONY! The line was crossed. But hey... all in the name of healing. Right? It appears to me that all is fair in this war for justice, except of course if its me playing word games with your phony names, asking solid logical questions or being the brunt of unbridled anger. | ||
| tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 207.216.241.43 |
Sinderella - I understand from various posts that you are upset about the press attending the closing ceremony. Do you need to keep harping on the same issue? Can we move on now? I, as I am sure others understand your feelings about the press being there. I am not angry at you (I can't speak for the others)....my name is not phony by the way....it is a name, albeit a nickname, that my birthmom gave me. I was reunited with my birthmom after 37 years...and she gave me that nickname (as she has with all her other children), so that name is very personal to me. | ||
| tellitlikeitis Junior Member Username: tellitlikeitis Post Number: 33 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 97.97.223.168 |
Sin - der - ella I've never attended GCC, I haven't contacted the press, they were contacted before I knew about it and I wasn't aware of a war being waged. Oh, and by the way -- is sinderella your REAL name? Just interesting you chose a "username" and then scorn others for doing the same . . . unless, of course, sinderella is your legal name, then I apologize for jumping to conclusions. Not sure who died and made you queen...but enjoy your reign. | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
Tabby, I like your name. We can now move on. Cindy | ||
| sinderella New member Username: sinderella Post Number: 20 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.224.11.219 |
Tellikenisis, Cinderella is what my father called me before he died. It was changed by a few of my classmates to Sinderella because I liked to challenge authority (hence the strap). It stuck. Cindy is my middle name. I hate my first name because it is also a guys name and I am far from being a tomboy and thus go by Cindy. I do not scorn others for using a phoney name. Where Tellitlikeitwas have I done that?  | ||
| dream_truth Senior Member Username: dream_truth Post Number: 1314 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 71.235.107.213 |
Ok, I just finished reading through this thread, haven't been on factnet for a few weeks and this is the only one I've caught up on so far. I would like to first respond to the statement somewhere near the top that said something about pimping for $$$ and that I said I needed the money. Whatever. That was a pretty low blow. Thank you to all those who posted in my defense, cryfreedom, bonnieb, pandersen and others. To answer that and others who have asked about the healing process, why this forum is here, why some of us went to the media, I can only speak for myself. When I first started this thread and started posting here in early 2006 it was simply because I was sad and lonely. Having been completely alone in the world for so long, I hoped that maybe there were others out there who had been at the community or GCC who might understand what I had not only been through, but the suffering I had continued to experience for years and years after leaving. With regards to the media, I was approached by someone shortly after GCC announced it's closing and asked if I would interview. I was scared at first but after I saw the first article and the bravery of those who took the first initiative, I agreed to tell my story. It just seemed like the right thing to do. I don't know if Michael Valpy has any ulterior motives, but if he does I really don't care. That's the way media works. It's not like any of us are paying him to write our story. If he gains something positive out of writing our stories then I am happy for him. I realize that by taking a stand, being an activist and holding my ground there will ultimately be haters who try and belittle or degrade us. So be it. When I read angry things directed at me I think of the 4 Agreements, particularly "Don't Take Anything Personally". Good words to live by. Those of you who are angry, I hope you feel better some day. I get a little sad sometimes, but then I read posts from people like gcc_1981_grad and I know this has all been worthwhile. If this forum is helping others to feel validated and find avenues to further healing, as it has done for me, I know it is a good thing. I realize that the truth being revealed may be a painful process for some, but it is necessary for many of us. Ok, I have more to say but there are laughing children all around who want to give me a birthday cake so I have to go! Peace and Love ~ DT | ||
| bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 73 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 65.73.216.126 |
Happy Birthday, DT!!! And thank you for what you have done for so many. Hugs! | ||
| susan_margaret New member Username: susan_margaret Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.235.189.173 |
These last few exchanges are really boring. How about a redirection: Grenville should have welcomed the press with open arms. Shed some light on the good things about the place. The comraderie, great guys like Mr MacNeil. From the sounds of it there were'nt any light sessions or strange cult behavior taking place. Valpy might have taken a look at the new cathedral. That in itself contributed to the place's downfall in a big way. Its also •••-backwards, according to my mom who is up on these things. The apse should be facing dear Jerusalem and the portal should be facing west. | ||
| susan_margaret New member Username: susan_margaret Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 24.235.189.173 |
OK, sorry, the exchanges before Dream_truth. I'm still not used to this. | ||
| grenvillan88 Junior Member Username: grenvillan88 Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.233.105.211 |
a portal? if they have one it should be up so they can go back to the mother ship. perhaps facing down is more appropriate as beggars usually are depicted grovelling on the ground. | ||
| tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 78 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.69.121.31 |
Hi Susan_Margaret - welcome to the Board --- good to see you on here | ||
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