| Author | Message | ||
     nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1628 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
http://www.meadowhaven.org/robert_j.htm | ||
| whereto2 Junior Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 30 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.244.222.177 |
garbage always sounds familiar in a world full of it... | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1629 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
whereto2, Dont you find it a bit odd that this book was originally written in 1956 and Lifton had no knowledge of the Twelve Tribes group but they still fit this criteria to a "T"? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thought_Reform_and_the_Psychology_of_Totalism So, for the TT to claim they are "The Only Ones" is preposterous and that there are other groups today and hundreds of groups before them claiming the same thing and using the same methods of creating their "Place to Belong" or should I say "A Place to be Deluded and Controlled"? But you still have the right to stick your fingers in your ears and your head back in the sand and mumble "garbage, garbage garbage...". Just remember when your bent over with your head buried like that you put yourself in a perfectly vulnerable position for someone to sneak up behind you and kick you right in the butt... (Message edited by nabashalam on September 24, 2007) | ||
| whereto2 Junior Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 32 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.244.103.209 |
apparently wikipedia has become your tao .... a resource for your accusations... for your pride and selfishness... someone has to recycle the garbage... good luck with that... | ||
| fatherofaking Senior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 2295 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.16.219.231 |
w2, you don't need the TT to be happy. it is obvious you are not happy. people that are happy have empathy for others and want to help. you have nothing but disdain for the people you speak to. it is indiscriminate, knowing nothing of the character of the people you speak to. whatever it is that keeps you from being happy will not be found here. you will have to search that out for yourself. it takes work to be honest with yourself but the result is freedom. nothing to hide, nothing to lose. where have i heard that before? freedom is just another word for nothing left to lose. janice joplin | ||
| whereto2 Junior Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 33 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.244.174.70 |
i have disdain for disdain eye for an eye... | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1635 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Thats the old testament sweety! Dont you believe and obey Yahshua? "You have heard that it was said, 'Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.'But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also." "You have heard that it was said, 'Love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'But I tell you: Love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you." | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1638 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:About | ||
| whereto2 Junior Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 34 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.244.207.170 |
no one gives a crap about your wiki posts and no one here obeys yahshua | ||
| unknownunsure Member Username: unknownunsure Post Number: 64 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 71.49.198.243 |
Pardon me, Whereto2, but you have no idea what we do or do not do to obey Yahshua. It is not your place to judge what He has for our lives. You may pull one or two Scriptures from the Bible and use your interpretation or that of the Twelve Tribes and make determinations concerning our obedience. Until God sends me a written message that says He is short-handed and behind on His duties so He appointed you to sit in judgement and degrade people; then I will consider you nothing but a fool. You spout judgement yet cannot live under the same microscope. Grow up and get over this hate and bitterness you spew out. Just because you say how we should live or Twelve Tribes says it, does not mean God is saying it. Sorry, but Yoneq's teachings are not exclusive. The same claims of being the "chosen" and living following Jewish teachings are the same things taught by other groups. Just because he says it does not make it Gospel. Just because you believe it does not give you the right to degrade and judge others. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1640 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Whereto2, Who hurt you so bad? Why do you hate yourself and feel you need to pay penance in the Twelve Tribes? Do you think God does not love you or forgive you because your not living with them? Do you think that you are or have been condemned for your sins and that the only way to be saved is by joining them? Do you think that your the only one that has felt that way? Believe it or not there are some here that hear your pain, your struggle, and would like to know if there is anyway that they can help you... Even if it were just to be a caring and listening ear... | ||
| whereto2 Junior Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 35 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.244.222.174 |
heh , you all make me laugh... | ||
| unknownunsure Member Username: unknownunsure Post Number: 65 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 71.49.198.243 |
What a hypocrite! How can you even pretend to know the "truth" about what God's will or obedience is and be so full of yourself and try hurt people. You are a disgrace! I pity you.I wonder if you have as much courage in person or are you a weak, pathetic little person that can only spew garbage from the safety of being behind a computer. I feel sorry for you when you finally come to the realization that God will judge you for the hurt you intewntionally try cause people. For your sake, I hope someday you wake up. You must be a very lonely person if you treat everyone this way. I am so sure you make your family really proud. | ||
| whereto2 Junior Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 36 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 70.5.207.120 |
hah | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 473 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Whereto2, If I lost all my inhibitions, I'm sure I would sound just like you. We've listened to naba for years sound off on factnet. We have certainly formed an opinion of his rantings, just as people have, without a doubt, formed strong opinions about you. Apparently, there is a double standard held here about how God will judge you for making claims about others, verses how others may be held accountable for making claims about you. Anyway, I just wanted to say, I support you in your right to speak what is in your heart, even if it is offensive to most. I know you have valid experiences interacting with the twelve tribes and have formed steadfast beliefs concerning situations that involve them and others. After all, you have heard both sides. To me, that makes your insight worthy to be heard. Thanks! | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 474 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
P.S. I wish you and your family well! | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1642 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
"Ranting schmanting! OYE! Whats the big deal?"  I think ranting is very load lightening and healing! I recommend it for everyone!!! TS, Whats the difference between insight and opinion?  | ||
| whereto2 Junior Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 38 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.245.71.124 |
vain and unprofitable | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1644 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
To vent is to unburden oneself of strong pent-up emotions. Repeated venting helps to make our problems seem mundane. While our audiences unfortunate to be within hearing distance might accuse us of being insane. Verbal venting is healthy both physically and emotionally. It isnt about vanity! Its about sanity! | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 476 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
I guess opinions are formed out of insight... Earlier, I failed to realize unknownunsure was upset about whereto2's comment about obeying Yahshua. It seems whereto2 has ideas, (or insights) about what it is to be obedient to Yahshua, and he has formed opinions as a result. I wasn't offended. I don't think his comment was meant to be an insult, just an observation from his point of view. | ||
| mozelle Intermediate Member Username: mozelle Post Number: 124 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.7.232.240 |
I rarely post anymore, but sometimes... "It seems whereto2 has ideas, (or insights) about what it is to be obedient to Yahshua" You mean, "no one gives a crap about your wiki posts and no one here obeys yahshua," (please note that includes EVERYONE!)and, "heh , you all make me laugh...," and, "garbage always sounds familiar in a world full of it...," are ideas and insights that are not meant to be insults? They are just from the opinions and observations about what he/she perceives it is to be obedient to Yahshua? Warped. If whereto2 is right, God help us all! | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1693 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Have you noticed whereto2 is no where to be seen lately???hmmm??? Pay no attention to that man behind the curtain!!! | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 489 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Well, I agree with whereto2 that Naba's posts are crap, just like his character is crappy. All you have to do is read his online diary about his adulterous relationships, and see how he treated the woman he ask to marry him last year and then broke up with her on factnet to see that, and that doesn't even include his history with the twelve tribes. If Naba is right, God help us all! Just my observations and opinion... however it may be your observation and opinion that mine are insults or "warped". So be it, they are what they are, and we have certainly never seen eye to eye, and that is just the way it is. | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 490 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
That's not to say I don't need to work on my own character, because I definitely do, but I certainly hope I would feel remorse over sleeping with someone elses spouse or breaking someone's heart and humiliating them, instead of revelling in it and defending such actions. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1695 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Thats your right to hold your own opinion. I have mine of you also but I will keep mine to myself. Ive come to the conclusion that if my opinion expressed causes harm, to others or myself, I will not voice it. "If you dont have anything good to say about someone, dont say anything at all..." I will say that I have liked some of your thoughts... and that your judging my character is "out of character" for you! Dont fool yourself into thinking you know all the facts or circumstances of any of your "observations" of me either! "Before you criticize someone, you should walk a mile in his shoes. That way, when you criticize him, you're a mile away and you have his shoes."  I also dont need to defend myself or justify my actions or words to you either, especially mistakes and sins I committed over a year ago and have suffered remorse, repented and "Made direct amends to such people wherever possible, except when to do so would injure them or others." and have also been forgiven by all parties involved. Except you apparently... Your judgement of my character means nothing...(although judging is unhealthy) but what does matter is my reaction to it. But I will disagree with you on one point. We HAVE seen eye to eye at times and that expressing the word "never" is extreme thinking... I yam what I yam! Peace!!! | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 491 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Right, naba, inhibitions are not necessarily a bad thing, perhaps I should have kept my thoughts to myself. However, the truth is, seekers of the truth have to scrutinize every bit of information divulged. You divulge a great deal of information here about yourself and about the twelve tribes, and it is important to determine if a source of information is reliable, which you haven't shown yourself to be. I hope Kim has recovered from the damage you caused her, and I hope you aren't sleeping with Soul anymore. I don't know all the details of your situation, just what you share online, which is really too much! I don't know, naba, I'm sure you could be a great guy, why won't you be Yathed? | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1696 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Why are you dragging up skeletons of mine in the first place? In whos eyes are you trying to discredit me? I dont understand! FYI Kim is now engaged to someone else,(she also has been diagnosed and is being treated for fibromyalgia which explains alot of her mental and emotional behaviors with me that YOU had no idea took place!) My tryst with Soul was a one time drunken mistake 2 years ago! Actually it has made us better friends so it wasnt a complete mistake. Also FYI she has an open marriage and dates many men! So please stop this unwarranted character assassination... BTW Everything I have ever said here has been completely reliable and I challenge you to prove any of it that is not! | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1697 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Yathed is a name the TT gave me and I refuse to give them that power over me. I prefer my new name which I feel God has given me... 5012 naba' naw-baw' a primitive root; to prophesy, i.e. speak (or sing) by inspiration (in prediction or simple discourse):--prophesy(-ing), make self a prophet. 7999 shalam shaw-lam' a primitive root; to be safe (in mind, body or estate); figuratively, to be (causatively, make) completed; by implication, to be friendly; by extension, to reciprocate (in various applications):--make amends, (make an) end, finish, full, give again, make good, (re-)pay (again), (make) (to) (be at) peace(-able), that is perfect, perform, (make) prosper(-ous), recompense, render, requite, make restitution, restore, reward, X surely. In other words... "I prophecy my recovery/restoration!" | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 492 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
...and tell me what Yathed means and why you were given that name. | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 493 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
It never occurred to me soul may have an open marriage, I don't really believe in such a thing, but I guess that makes everything ok, I'm so reassured now. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1698 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Sarcasm does not become you... I never said what I did was OK! I, like you, dont agree with "open marriages" and such, and I know what I did was wrong, even under the influence, and I never repeated it! So how do I appease you? How do I stop my sins of the past from irritating you now, and how do I get you to stop regurgitating them? Why do these things tear at you? You must have been really hurt in the past by a man... Im sorry if this is so and I dont want to open any old wounds such as you are doing with me right now! Is their no forgiveness in your camp, just as in the TT? Forgive us our sins,as we have forgiven those who sin against us. Do not judge, and you will not be judged. Do not condemn, and you will not be condemned. Forgive, and you will be forgiven. You, then, why do you judge your brother? Or why do you look down on your brother? For we will all stand before God's judgment seat. It is written: " 'As surely as I live,' says the Lord, 'every knee will bow before me; every tongue will confess to God.' So then, each of us will give an account of himself to God. Therefore let us stop passing judgment on one another. Speak and act as those who are going to be judged by the law that gives freedom, because judgment without mercy will be shown to anyone who has not been merciful. Mercy triumphs over judgment! I care very little if I am judged by you or by any human court; indeed, I do not even judge myself. My conscience is clear, but that does not make me innocent. It is the Lord who judges me. Therefore judge nothing before the appointed time; wait till the Lord comes. He will bring to light what is hidden in darkness and will expose the motives of men's hearts. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1699 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
I was given the name Yathed by Yoneq when I returned the third time in Warsaw, MO. He said "You need to put a stake in your foot!" 3489 yathed yaw-thade' from an unused root meaning to pin through or fast; a peg:--nail, paddle, pin, stake. So the name was not a gift from God but rather like the "brand" of an escaped slave. But if you know anything about the symptoms of the "battered spouse syndrome" or the "Stockholm Syndrome" then you know many psychologically abused people return to their abusers, time and time again... http://counsellingresource.com/quizzes/stockholm/index.html So I am happy to say that the last and my final time I left the TT that I yanked that "spike" out of my foot and broke through the bars of guilt and fear that had been constructed in my mind. | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 494 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Naba, I didn't realize I needed to forgive you. It's like someone else said here before, I don't feel like it is mine to grant. Maybe if I was Yahshua, I could offer you forgiveness for your sins, but I'm just a person who tries to use good judgment. Naba, what you wrote in your diary does not match up with what you are saying now. In your journal entry you wrote about getting drunk on the breaking of the bread wine so you could get up the nerve to leave the twelve tribes, and then hooking up with soul immediately following your departure, even after a warning from an elder about committing adultery. The time of which your were referring to was much longer than 2 years ago. It's been over two years since your apology to the twelve tribes, and you went back into the twelve tribes after leaving the time mentioned above, and never told the truth about your affair until years later. I have forgiven you for anything hurtful you have ever said to me, and that is the truth. I just don't want to trust anyone who will tell me lies, that being you or the twelve tribes. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1701 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
It fails me to where I ever betrayed any ones trust and I do hope that I can earn/gain/command some credibility here. If you ask me if you can trust me, I will tell you yes, absolutely. If you want the truth from me, you will get it. So help me God. The truth is I would die for any of my friends and some who arent...yet. You can ask me anything you want and I will tell you the absolute truth but I will no longer answer certain things on a public forum. You say that I have been way to open about some things that I have done and been through and I agree with you. Some things do not need to be public knowledge. Now I wish we could bury this and leave it buried please? If you have any personal questions that you would like me to address and answer in all truthfulness, I urge you to please email me in private... nabashalam@yahoo.com | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 495 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
No, thank you, nabashalam, I think I've heard more than enough. Carry on with your observations and insights, you have a captive audience here. It seems entirely possible that perhaps we just see things from polar opposite points of view, and that may never change. I think the name the twelve tribes gave you must have suited you well, it would take a stake to hold you to solid ground. You strike me as a drifter, and I strive to be a straight shooter. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1702 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
There are many a drifter that shoot quite straight! And yes, I was raised gypsy and it is in my blood. And if you come to think about it, most of your sages in history were wandering teachers. Buddha, Christ, Hindu Charakas/Sanyasas etc... Just be careful that your "straight shooting" doesnt become "narrow mindedness". Peace on ya! | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1703 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
BTW...My openness and honesty has helped me tremendously. It gives me a chance to actually "look" at things working in me and to give me a different perspective on them. Thats what this board is all about... But still, there are private things that involve others that should be kept private if it were to cause any harm to others by speaking of it in a public forum...  | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 496 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Well, I wasn't talking about drifting in the sense of locale, I was more referring more to your free thinking which travels all over the board. As far as privacy goes, I can respect what you are saying, however I wouldn't know any of the things I have mentioned if you hadn't made them public. Never the less, I would be abliged to drop it now. It doesn't even seem right to speak of such things. So, back to my inhibitions... | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1705 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
FYI Freethinking is a good thing!!! It goes hand and hand with critical thinking! And yes I have had my wanderings but I have learned something from each and every hill, valley and curve in the road... Not to mention the detours and dead ends!!! Oh! Speaking of roads...I just saw this new billboard down the road from my apartment... http://www.ffrf.org/ BTW I wouldnt call it inhibitions. More like being considerate and Christ-like... "He who covers and forgives an offense seeks love, but he who repeats or harps on a matter separates even close friends." | ||
| truth_seeker Intermediate Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 499 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Naba, Do you honestly think you have any persuasion with me by quoting bible verses? I hate to sound like whereto2, but don't make me laugh! Charles Manson quoted bible verses too, but I ain't interested in covering and forgiving his offenses any more than I am yours! I seek justice as much as love... | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1707 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Why would I need to persuade you to do anything? You cant do anything for me or against me! I was hoping we could become friends! I tried to work things out with you but see your just another one of those self righteous so called Christians in La La Land that has screwed up this world for centuries! I tried my best to be kind and civil with you just as I did with whereto2 but I now see your just as GUILTY of being an ••• as he/she was! Justice? So now your talking punishment? Well slap my momma and take away my birthday! To bad you missed the Inquisition! You would have fit in nicely! | ||
| truth_seeker Advanced Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 501 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
JUSTICE: conformity to truth, fact, or reason : correctness. This is the kind of justice I seek, naba. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1708 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
First off, I quoted scripture in an attempt to communicate in a medium you related with. Please excuse my emotional reaction to being compared to Charles Manson. And yes, the "Devil" knows scriptures forward and back! OK...In order for you to conform to the "truth" you must first know the truth(truthseeker) but more importantly...be open to the truth! There are times when you are faced with a choice between the real and the unreal, what is true and what is false. When faced with such a choice you seek the truth within your heart. In this case, there will be a sense of peace surrounding the truth, and fear connected with the false. But if the seeker believes he is willing to accept the truth no matter what, yet is still governed by his attachments then he has no impetus to take the final step to truth. The seeker must become as a little child, and be open to all things and have a willingness to learn any new truth, even if it diametrically opposes that which he has held dear for many years. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Truth I really hope you read the link above. Also take some time and take a look at all the links that stem from that page in your "search for the truth"! Now there are many types of truths and some truths can co-exist, also truths can change with time and with cultural demographics! What is "correct" in one place is not in another! The same goes for individuals! The "fact" is that there is no way that the TT has complete exclusive possession of the "truth"!All truth belongs to all and is the exclusive property of none. Actually their truth is a simulacrum! A white washed tomb full of people with problems, troubles, dysfunctions and maladies which are not addressed but suppressed! I believe that "Intransition", an ex-elder and poster on this board, will agree on this fact. But can you imagine finding the truth after living in the TT for decades? Truth can also bring fear and terror. Consider the person who discovers that he has been traveling the path of illusion for 30 years and now must backtrack and start from square one. This truth could break their heart and possibly even to the point of not being able to face this truth! If we expect truth to always verify our desires we develop a mindset which becomes an enemy to truth. |
