| Author | Message | ||
     grumpyshoegirl New member Username: grumpyshoegirl Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 75.67.196.32 |
I live fairly close to the Plymouth (MA) TT community, and since I try to live as much of an all-natural lifestyle as possible, end up running into them frequently, most often at natural-foods stores and the local farmers' market, where they have a booth selling breads and other things. In the past few weeks, I've noticed a rather bizarre behavior. The parents seem to be making a concerted effort NOT to use their children's names if a non-TTer is within earshot. I've heard parents calling their children girl, boy, son and daughter, almost pointedly. In the most obvious case, a TT mother was walking around the farmers' market with her three-month-old in a baby carrier, and many of us stopped to admire the adorable baby. At one point the baby woke up and began to fuss, and the mother started to address her by name, caught herself, and replaced the name with "baby." I mean it was really obvious that she was trying to avoid using the baby's name. I haven't seen anything about this practice on any of the TT or the anti-TT websites. Is this a new practice, or just something that nobody makes a big deal out of since it pales in comparison to things like corporal punishment and nobody having any of their own money? (ps- This is my first post. I actually created the account so that I could ask this question, after having read the forum voraciously for over a year. There are just so many knowledgeable people here.) | ||
| fatherofaking Senior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 2284 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.16.219.231 |
i can only speculate as to why they would be doing this. if it is a way to go deeper into hiding then they may be thinking it is time to flee into the wilderness. i have considered what the outcome of this might be. i think many will die out there where ever they end up. i think it will be tragic for some. some just won't go. there are a lot of changes happening in the world and they are happening all at once. maybe yonaq thinks it is the time of the end. this is all speculation of course. 2012 isn't far off. it is a date that has a lot of people spooked. maybe the TT are concerned also. | ||
| jodymcgrody Junior Member Username: jodymcgrody Post Number: 27 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 69.19.14.42 |
It is probably just a primitive fear that once the child's name is heard in public their soul might be stolen. You should encourage them when you see them that the odds of having their soul taken is very low nowadays.[humor] Another option is to ask them point blank if withholding the child's name is meant as a way to dehumanize the child and repress the child's individual identity. They may not be doing this as a conscious, deliberate act but it wouldn't be surprising if that were the ulterior, or buried motivation for it. A way of defending the group mentality (like an autoimmune response). They seem to propagate teachings that are justified on the surface as has having some spiritual purpose but once in practice essentially do nothing more than enforce the authority of the hierarchy and repress any burgeoning individuality (kind of like what a cult would do). Then again it may just be that the women in that particular community have developed some peculiar paranoid theory about using the children's names in public, and has nothing whatsoever to do with teachings or professed beliefs. They do view everyone and everything outside of themselves as 'unclean' and 'defiled' and this may just be some of that wonderful 'community' prejudice presenting itself. JRL | ||
| julieanne Junior Member Username: julieanne Post Number: 36 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 85.210.4.27 |
I've never known the community to withhold a childs name deliberately in front of non members before. When I was a member the childrens names were spoken all the time but we also called them son and daughter regularly too. But not because we were hiding thier names. Many of the mothers with babies and very young children used to make up affectionate songs about the child which included thier name. You'd often see a mother carrying her baby on her back singing these songs while they washed dishes or prepared dinner. Anyone who has been present at a baby's dedication will know that alot of thought goes into chosing the childs name, I attended several dedications before I was baptised. Next time just ask what the childs name is, I'm sure the mother will happily tell you the name and the meaning of the name. When my children were babies I didn't tell people who admired them what thier names were unless they asked. The twelve tribes have alot of faults including the way they discipline thier children but they genuinely love thier children. They spend alot of time with thier children singing with them, talking to them, telling them stories and teaching them useful skills. If it wasn't for the discipline and the ban on any fantasy play I think they'd be model parents. | ||
| grumpyshoegirl New member Username: grumpyshoegirl Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 75.67.196.32 |
If it wasn't for the discipline and the ban on any fantasy play I think they'd be model parents. I definitely agree with you on this-- breastfeeding and babywearing are two of the best things a parent can do for a baby, and with older children, being there is so important. I don't bother to tell people my baby's name either, unless they ask, but if I'm talking to her and the name slips out, it's simply not an issue. This mother started to use her baby's name, and then cut herself off and replaced it with "baby." That's the part that struck me as weird. Son and daughter don't bother me as much as girl and boy do. | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1624 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
I have a theory on this. It wasnt practiced when I was in but with the way legal ramifications are now a days with child abuse and corporal discipline... Anyone can report a parent for spanking their child. The main reason that the "Raid in Island Pond" was deemed illegal was that they did not have the actual names of the children or their parents on the arrest warrants. The warrant read "The children of the Island Pond community" or "CC" for "certain children". I'm not even sure if they still use different names on the childrens birth certificate. I knew of some children with birth names and also "community" names. Like foak said...this is all speculation... This is from the TTs website on the raid... -Three days before all the power of the state engulfed the 112 children in the Community and their families, an 80-year-old retired Vermont Supreme Court justice, sitting as a juvenile court judge, clearly ruled that unless the state could produce specific names of people and specific evidence, the court had no authority to act. -Judge Mahady had to decide what to do with the large group of children, approximately 60, whose parents did not give their names. Now the child psychologists never got the chance to actually interview the children without the parents standing right there next to the child. I think they would have heard a completely different story from these children if they were'nt under the duress of their parents presence... | ||
| whereto2 Junior Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 29 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.245.71.57 |
well , when anyone here presents a child they raised that is as happy , kind , gifted , talented , humble , intelligent , compassionate and sensitive as the ones I met in the twelve tribes then you will be in a better position to say what way is best to raise a child... while the foolish will only speculate... and the self confident will reveal their opinions about raising children - the twelve tribes are actually practicing what they believe and the children they are raising are a light to the nations... | ||
| fatherofaking Senior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 2285 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.16.219.231 |
well , when anyone here presents a child they raised that is as happy , kind , gifted , talented , humble , intelligent , compassionate and sensitive as the ones I met in the twelve tribes then you will be in a better position to say what way is best to raise a child... i would be happy for you to meet my 18yr old son. i believe he fits the criteria. | ||
| fatherofaking Senior Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 2286 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.16.219.231 |
GSG, say hello to kharash and his family for me if you have opportunity. i believe they are still living there. they are a wonderful family. someone i have known for 25yrs. tell them james and james said hello. | ||
| jodymcgrody Junior Member Username: jodymcgrody Post Number: 28 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 66.82.9.110 |
Whereto2, Meeting children in the Twelve Tribes on a visit and holding that up as an example is as pointless as attending a "Friday Night Meal" and concluding that the place is wonderful. Until you've lived there and experienced some of the darkness that creeps around when the public is gone, then you can realistically start holding up the Twelve Tribes as an example. It's not all bad, but it's not all good either. The children who were raised there and since left have spoken volumes about this particular topics 'not all good' aspects. JRL | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1630 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Great analogy Jody! Intransition, his wife and I went on a nice boat ride Saturday on Lake Mendota here in Madison and had a wonderful time. There was a beautiful sunset and as we were headed back we could hear the crowd cheering from Camp Randall Stadium as the UofW Badgers football team beat Iowa and increased there unbeaten season! (4-0)GO BIG RED!!! Any way... we have been talking about the TT and we have really boiled most of their problems down to the root cause. The lack and fear of honest open communication. This forces problems to be stuffed and ignored where they fester and grow. This not only happens in the "general population" but also, maybe even more so, in the Government meetings. Have you actually gone to the TT teachings site and see how they talk? Its absolutely ridiculous! And to come to think that I used to talk like that and "prophesy" like that in the gatherings... it makes me ill. Between the "Cult Speak", fear of displaying "strong opinions", dissent or "non-submission to your brothers"... Not to mention the "people pleasing" and "brown nosing" NOTHING GETS SAID AND PROBLEMS DONT GET ADDRESSED!!! Intransition was talking to me about the dynamics in the "dysfunctional family" and that they can be found in many types of groups and organizations and I agree. If you read this and remember your life back in the "Tribes" you can see how the communities fit in there very well and you probably can remember someone who fits into each role... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dysfunctional_family So you could say that every TT community could use some "family therapy" but remember that Yoneq considers psychologists to be sorcerers. Oddly enough, that was his major in college!  | ||
| whereto2 Junior Member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 31 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.244.103.209 |
you make me ill | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1636 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
I'm sorry to hear that! Here you go...http://www.pepto-bismol.com/ Would you like some cold water with that? (Message edited by nabashalam on September 24, 2007) |
