Why were you sent to GCC

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Author Message   stewart8284 New member Username: stewart8284 Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 69.63.43.183 Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 5:34 pm:        It has been 23 years since I have communicated with anybody associated with GCC. I was in gr 10 & 11 in 83 & 84. I share Jason Prices past of work crews and the pot sink. I believe that in my two years at GCC, I was arguably one of the most disciplined students not to be expelled. I even got to spend the week after grad 83 with Steve W on D for leaving grad night without permission. I could go on for hours about my exploits and punishments. If this downfall had happened 15 years ago, I might have shared more in your plight. I turned 40 this year and I now have a 13 year old son and twin 2 year olds. My 13 year old is proving to be my payback for years of torturing teachers and being pure trouble. I have, in times of duress, threatened my teenager to be sent to GCC. I also would have felt comfortable having him attend the school. I don't seem to share in these same memories some of you have. FF, MrO, we were close to a first name basis. I experienced light sessions, FFs house on numerous occasions, almost three weeks combined on the pot sink duty, plus the extra week for grad 83. Through all of these experiences I was never threatened, hit, pushed, paddled or forced to join a cult. I have never seen any of these people you speak so poorly about do these things. The religious aspect of the school should have been expected, my parents knew what I was in for, and that is why they sent me. This division of money and troubled kids is a joke. The richest kids at that school were just as much trouble as the rest of us. GCC was a school that fixed troubled kids. You should look at your relationships with your parents and decide if you have some misplaced anger. I did, my parents didn't know what to do with me. I had problems with the police, drinking, drugs and violence all before 13. My parents did what they had to, to save my life. Grenville was doing what they were supposed to do. I am sorry about your hurt feelings but I think there are a lot of misled people on a witch hunt. There was a consistency with their punishments, I won’t go threw the list at this time but for every punishable offence there was an appropriate punishment. If you drank or got caught with drugs, for instance, you were suspended or expelled. I am not sure what you would have to do to be held down by two Christian people and spanked by some object you couldn’t recognize until you bled??? I remember every time and every person who has strapped, caned, paddled or physically restrained me and it all happened in PUBLIC school before I went to Grenville. My gr 8 home room in Belleville ON was in the hallway away from the other kids. I found my year books and lost myself in time this weekend. I focused on the staff and COJ students. These people, who you are so freely condemning as weak cult stricken individuals were at the top of every academic, athletic, theatrical and spiritual challenge. We went to class and sat beside them; we slept and dined, laughed and cried with them. We were also disciplined with them. These people were our friends, and now you talk of them as though they were terrorists. Grenville’ staff and supporters are very committed to their beliefs and their chosen lifestyle, we were sent to them because of it, and they did not recruit us. If you consider GCC a cult, then what do you think Catholicism is? If any of you remember who I am, I am sure that this support for GCC will come as quite a surprise. I hope that in doing so, others who share some of my feelings will also come forward and express their thoughts. David Stewart   dream_truth Senior Member Username: dream_truth Post Number: 1313 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 72.45.165.10 Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 7:11 pm:        Hi David. I consider GCC and COJ a cult. I was born at COJ and attended GCC for 4 and a half years. I was sent there for not allowing myself to be brainwashed at COJ, so they thought maybe GCC could do a better job of it. The abuses people talk about here are very real. I experienced much of it, usually for the simple act of "thought crimes" You were very fortunate to not have had the same experiences.   sandrabrownearly Junior Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 28 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 162.83.61.245 Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 8:56 pm:        Hi David...I definatly remember you! (We must have been in the same "family" or at the same table or something) You were quite the rebel! I am sure that it would make the staff at GCC proud to know that you're doing so well and that they played a part in that...I do wish there were more posts that mirrored your story. I know that while I was not a rebel (at all!) I too am grateful for the "guidance" I received at GCC...I had a lot of good life experiences there. I was, however, affiliated with the C of J and had a little insight into the lives of the staff and their children and can tell you that the punishment was not always consistent. And sometimes the regular students were drawn into that inconsistancy. I am so glad that you were not scarred (physically or emotionally) in any way at GCC...but I truly believe that not everyone was as fortunate. Sandra   stewart8284 New member Username: stewart8284 Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 69.63.43.183 Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 10:13 pm:        I empathize with those who felt they have suffered or feel they were held back in life. We have to remember, although the punishments were harsh, they were, in fact the signs of the times. My wife, who attended an all-girl catholic school, can tell stories that match or surpass some of ours. The lawyers who contrived this class action suit against GCC and the COJ are in for a big surprise when they realize how much support there is for the school. I will personally defend the school and its practices, in court if need be. The amount of damage done to the staff and their families is irreversible. Every school has problems with a staff member or two, but to ruin the lives and reputations of an entire school is too extreme. One person’s wife wrote ‘a bunch of spoiled rich kids’ – maybe a little harsh but there is some truth to it. There are thousands of kids that would do anything to receive the educational opportunities we were given. Many took full advantage of these opportunities and others fought tooth and nail. Some people are all too quick to accuse, blame and point fingers at someone else for their problems instead of taking responsibility for their own actions. GCC, again, through strict and sometimes harsh actions, did what OUR parents hired them to do! If you feel you have been ill-treated, seek professional help. Sue your parents for reckless endangerment or abandonment. You will get about as far as this class action suit. What’s done is done. The forum has been publicized in a national newspaper. If you intention was to ruin the lives of those who hurt you, you succeeded, but think about how many innocent causalities of YOUR WAR are out there having to deal with this. David Stewart (Message edited by stewart8284 on September 21, 2007)   sheilac Member Username: sheilac Post Number: 63 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 76.66.72.246 Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 10:48 pm:        "...signs of the times"?!? That has to be the most facile defense for GCC I have yet heard. I would love to hear an elaboration on that comment. Just because someone you know can tell worse stories doesn't make what we had to endure Ok. Just because there are kids in the world that would consider GCC a step up doesn't make what they did right. Our parents did not pay thousands of dollars a year to have us emotionally abused or in some cases, sexually and physically assaulted. Most of those who were "ill-treated" (to use your rather generous definition of what many experienced) did and still do seek professional help. Just because options are available to help people cope does not somehow magically absolve the guilty of what they did or mitigate the fact that they did it. This is not "our war". If innocent people are getting hurt now, I'm sorry about it but you should look to those who created this whole mess in the first place not those who are trying to clean it up.   sandrabrownearly Junior Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 29 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 162.83.61.245 Posted on Friday, September 21, 2007 - 11:13 pm:        There are only a couple of stories that I've read that I really felt would have haunted me my whole life if it happened to me. As for class action suits...I'm not sure how that works. How do you prove such things? And I don't think that a suit would help me heal. (But that's me.) One of the things you mentioned that has been on my heart is the fact that all staff has suffered because of this publicity. I even think about Father Farnsworth...no matter what, this is a heavy weight. Maybe a weight he should bear, but it's still not easy for me to think about. The "spoiled rich kid" statement still sticks in my craw. I know it doesn't apply to me...I was there on partial scholarship. There were spoiled kids there (had a room mate call Mom to say she wanted one of the "helpers" from their home sent to the school to make her bed, etc.) But I don't know the financial status of the people on this site...how can you or that person's wife? Just because they went to school there doesn't mean they had money...loved the uniforms! I looked just like everyone else! (When people hear that I went to a private boarding school in Canada they assume that my family either had more money than time or that I was real trouble...or both! And in my case, neither applies.) Just so you know, I do appreciate you and the others that are making a stand for GCC. As you can tell, I'm torn. This is such a heart breaking situation all around.   shewhowhistles New member Username: shewhowhistles Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 209.161.239.71 Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 12:38 am:        My parents just thought it might be good for me (ie motivational etc). After the first few weeks the summer camp feel wore off and I was just left with a feeling of being 'kept'. I was really glad to say to FF himself that coming May that I would not be returning. I stayed the full year to honour my parents' investment. If I had had my choice I would have returned to my regular highschool that following January. Last time I talked with them I got the impression they still didn't see the impact GGC had. I am doing ok. I avoided the most or all of the major stuff but felt that that GCC was definitely into spirit crushing. I am hoping with so many testimonials that all students who felt some negative 'things' there will finally be able to let go and maybe forgive. To forget would be hard and probably not wise in my opinion.   tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 66 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.69.121.31 Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 1:50 am:        "GCC was a school that fixed troubled kids." Have to disagree with you...I was not a troubled kid and I am certainly not a troubled adult. I also attended Branksome Hall (a Girls Private School in Toronto). My parents sent me there for a better education (and nothing more) as opposed to a public school. Fortunately, I was able to see through their weird ways and did my time. By the way, I had a very good relationship with my parents while I was a teenager. So don't lump us all together. Thank you.   tmw Member Username: tmw Post Number: 59 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.48.55.131 Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 10:01 am:        tabby1979, I will echo your thoughts. I was not a troubled child. I never broke curfew, I never was where "I shouldn't be", I always told my mother where I was, She knew all of my friends (we were for the most part geeks, and happy to watch movies and play board games), I never came home drunk (well maybe once but that was well past my GCC years and I was 19. I was punished for this offense by not being alowed to go out with friends the following day, which suited me fine as I was hung over anyway LOL) I was a bit willful (I'll give you that) but not in any self distructive or relationship damning way, show me a teenager that isn't somewhat willful. To this day, I have never tried drugs. My mother was a single mother and wasn't rich, as a matter of fact she went into debt to send me to GCC for a "better education". At one point she actually moved in with my grandparents in an effort to save money and send me to GCC. I was not a troubled rich kid sent to GCC to be straightened out.   breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 211 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.49.29 Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 12:24 pm:        I am telling you... When I think Of someone they appear.... Sheesh! David Stewart,I was soooo thinking about you the other day. And, mentioned you to a friend... We were talking about Mary Kay cosmetics... How is your mom btw? She and my mom were fairly good aqquanitances........Your mom used to like to hug me and take time to see me when she visited you at GCC... I remember once seeing your moms car in the parking lot... and had to think for a minute was it your mom or mine.... Went outside and read the plague on the glove box... and thought Phew... it's his mom. I have to read the posts in this section to catch up and post thoughts or not... But, thought I would say hi to you... Just the same... Liane Marie Ross   breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 213 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.49.43 Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 1:48 pm:        Okay, posting thoughts now.... David, agreed.... GCC kids some of them not exactly the best model kids.... But, I will honestly 100% say this.... My story for being sent to GCC is this.... 1) my father did it to up his social status...he liked to compete with the Jones's 2) Apparently, the availability to students through smaller classes appealing to my mother because I am to this day ADHD, and was highly addicted to Ritalin and had to weened off before GCC as I was a guinea pig subject for it when it came to Canada and was in the testing period 3) I was no where near the behaviour issue my sister was... although I did not hide it and she did 4)Told later on by my father and his concubine they just did not want me around. Having said that ... I view myself as a kid who was extremely inquisitive and an academic challange, there was so much else to see and experience. Did I have below average social skills... that is likely... people bored me and other kids did not get me. On the other hand older kids got me, I could philosiphise with the best of em. Was I insecure in my world??? Heck ya! Did GCC use that against me?? Bet your bottom dollar they did!! I was there a long time and saw many changes at GCC from 1978 - 1984. You did not have to be highly accademic to meet criteria at GCC nor did you have to come from rich families.... Something most elite schools look for... Trust me, I have been interviewed at many!! I do think too that had GCC been full of better times it would not have taken their funeral for us all to connect. Most elite schools have alumni meetings where the alumni can't wait to see their friends, write and phone each other all the time. Not the case at GCC. Because, we were not allowed to have friends... they called it clicky... although they encouraged you to have them and when you got one they separated you. David, truly ... some kids went in damned if they did and damned if they didn't. I heard at home constantly what a dissapointment I was and it was echoed at GCC. They knew I was adopted and ADHD and used that against me. They expelled me and could not do that properly, they did not inform my parents till I was half way to Toronto on a train. My dad was not wanting anything to do with me and my mom was in texas... so, I am wandering around Union Station with no where to go and no cash to get there. That is neglect! They lied to me and told me my graduating class hated me and voted me out and made me feel quilty all this time till this myth was exposed. My class knew nothing.... They called me outrageous names. David, I always really liked you, but truthfully, I could go on and on about what meeting the boiler face to face did to me. I could tell you where Religion was so skewed for me. I could tell you what the impact of the name calling did to my life and my identity as a woman. But, this is not the place. Suffice it to say this... I am honoured by people like you and so many others who went to GCC and have acheived. Did we get an amazing education... I have never argued the academics there..... I know I would have never finsished high school otherwise.   breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 214 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.49.43 Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 1:51 pm:        cont'd I am no where in the league of the intelligence and accomplishments of the Alumni and frankly I feel like a dumb dumb. But, man I am so proud I know you all and can say I knew you when and look how you are now. I am amazed each day somebody new comes and tells their story and tells me how successful they are. I am not giving credit to any institution but the indivdual. David, I am the drifter, the eperiencer, I never made much of my education.... I have had dinner with dignitaries and chased whiskey with bikers at pig roasts. But, one thing life has taught me is that their is preface for everything, stories generally are real and feelings accurate. GCC denied feelings and corrected you for them, but made you say them so they could get in your head. I eventually shut off my emotions and denied them.... It took a long time for me to finally start getting them back. I respect you and your opinions... but, I also know from first hand this stuff happened. I also know some were rebellious and they were justified in punishing us... but, I also question the fine lines... I also question punishments for stuff we did not do too. Thank you for being successful and your opinions... And, thanks for showing up here, like I said I have thought about you over time....   tinkerbell84 New member Username: tinkerbell84 Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 88.134.236.100 Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 3:53 am:        Hi David, I remember you well and we sure had some good times at Grenville. I understand your viewpoint to some extent but can't agree with all your opinions. I, too, was sent to Grenville because I had gotten into crap the year before. It was a big deal to my parent's at the time and they honestly did send me there because they thought it was the best way to provide me with the education and discipline that I needed. I never truthfully expressed my resent towards Grenville over the years because I really did understand my parents and knew that they did what they thought the best. However, Grenville did not “fix” me. I didn’t need to be fixed and instead it "broke" me and certainly ruined my self-esteem, my ability to trust people and my opinions toward religion . Over the years, I told everyone how much I disliked the school but always added, "but, if I hadn't gone there, I never would have graduated" … as if I were thankful. I am now 42 and realize this isn't true. I was just made to believe that was true! My rebellious times before Grenville were just a normal teenage thing (in my case) and after 2 decades I know I am a person who always finds my way back to the right track despite some minor strayings. Making mistakes and learning from them is simply part of growing up into a better person. After this whole story broke in the papers I was able to speak openly with my parents for the first time since I was at Grenville and even they have basically admitted that they perhaps over-reacted in sending me to GCC. I actually got through my 3 years there without much trouble, was never physically abused or threatened. However, my freedom of thinking, movement or emotions were all restrained and I suffered from that for many years. What GCC did to me - well I graduated - but the self confidence and motivation for further studies were null. So basically my parent’s money was thrown out the window – and yes they made sacrifices to send me there. Yes, I could blame my parents, which I did for many years - but they had no clue what was going on and as you stated - they just wanted my best. No, it was a system that tried to mould you in an unhealthy manner and then sent you out into a world with good academic abilities but no idea how to fit in, carry on a normal relationship or function in that world. Yes, perhaps I graduated with good marks but that really didn't help me in my life. I spent 3 years alone at GCC, without real friends, being told how to think and act and came out of that school in worse shape than when I went in ... and then I entered the real world at age 19 to discover the viewpoints that had been branded into me were certainly not the norm and was again partially ostracized for my way of thinking. Sorry to disagree but I'm glad things were different for you!   q12hrs New member Username: q12hrs Post Number: 4 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 70.49.87.214 Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 11:13 am:        -Tabby Were you referring to Branksome when you spoke of their "weird ways."   tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 68 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.69.121.31 Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 1:14 pm:        Hi q12hrs...no I was referring to GCC.   q12hrs New member Username: q12hrs Post Number: 5 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 65.94.112.69 Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 1:28 pm:        Thanks Tabby "Keep Well the Road"   stewart8284 New member Username: stewart8284 Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2007 Posted From: 69.63.43.183 Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 8:26 pm:        Three strikes and I am out….. I would like to thank you for allowing me to post my thoughts on this issue without slamming me. After reading many of your submissions, I would prefer to step aside and allow this constant internal strife to happen without me. I would like to say that the constant bickering will not help your case or your cause. After reading the countless poor messages expressing nothing but anger, I am left with a sickening feeling. There are 1000s of adjectives in the English language more suitable and descriptive than BLEEP you and BLEEP them. I hope that people see this as a sign of weakness and discredit the speaker. I wish we could ensure who was responding to this forum. I am sure that there are people on here who never went to GCC or even know what the COJ is. People just stirring the pot who should fly away and let those who need healing begin or continue the process. I feel for those who still hurt from their treatment at GCC or the COJ. Whether abused or not, your own perception is your only true reality. If retribution is the answer for you then how are you any different from those that you are condemning. These people did what they felt was right, they were fighting for their beliefs. We were just in the way. Healing starts within – I know this because I have had my own demons to overcome. The one aspect of this that I have enjoyed was hearing from old friends from school that I have not heard from since I left in 1984. If there are people who would like to say hello on a more personal level, here is an e-mail address for you to reach me at davidd_stewart@yahoo.com PS – if someone is really bothering you, don’t you think that responding to them angrily will simply increase the tension? Don’t take your displaced anger out on them, he or she just has a different opinion and like you, they have a right to one. Good luck fellow GOD SQUAD members I hope that you find what you are looking for… Sincerely David Stewart 82-84   sheilac Member Username: sheilac Post Number: 83 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.54.16.70 Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 9:07 pm:        Good luck to you too, David. And just for the record, I have no objection to people expressing a different point of view than mine. It is the manner in which they do it that is key. And it isn't about retribution. It is about accountability and reconciling injustice. "One word of truth outweighs the whole world". ~Alexander Solzhenitsyn~ (Message edited by sheilac on September 23, 2007)   gcc_1981_grad Junior Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 32 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.52.180.34 Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 9:22 pm:        It has been awhile since I have posted my thoughts. I have been busy trying to gain understanding on what happened at GCC. I have said earlier that I graduated from GCC in 1981. As soon as I left the school, I ignored it. I did not place the school on my resume and I never told any one that I went there. I did not associate with any of my class mates from the school. The reason why I did this was because I was ashamed to be associated with the school and their process of educating students. I did very well for myself and am happy with my life. I am certain that I did well, by removing all that I had learned from GCC from my system. On August 31, 2007 an article was published in the Globe and Mail which spoke of GCC as a dark place with mysterious cult like activities. Reading that article was a significant moment for me. I immediately found this web site and read stories from people that I have not thought about for 26 years. Their stories, and the way they spoke of school affecting them sounded so similar to aspects of my own life - the way I do not trust people, the way I hand other humans, the way I think of myself. I immediately connected with these people. I have never done anything like this before in my life. Soon after, another article was published in the Globe - an apology from a staff member of GCC for all the hurt that was created at GCC. I am 46 years old, a manager of an organization, and I wept when I read this article. I felt both a powerful sense of joy and sick to my stomach.   gcc_1981_grad Junior Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 33 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.52.180.34 Posted on Sunday, September 23, 2007 - 9:34 pm:        (con't) I have spent a considerable amount of time since those days last month trying to gain understanding of how something like this could happen. This quest was mainly for my own healing. I wanted to know what had happened to me, why had it happened, what was the intention. In my search for understanding, I was very fortunate to have been able to speak with a great many people who were associated with GCC. I have also been able to connect with former classmates. I am very thankful for this. And I also heard many stories from people who were not treated properly. More stories that I could possibly imagine. I hope that I and others can heal from their experiences. I do think that I have come to some kind of understanding of what happened at GCC. I think there were things that happened at GCC that were not right. I think that it was an issue of staff members misusing power. But it is not up to me to make that decision, nor is it up to any of us here on this website. The decisions will be made by the OPP, the courts, and the Bishop. It is our obligation to let the OPP, the courts and the Bishop know what has happened at GCC. we have to be able to tell these people as honestly as we can our stories. That is all we can do. And I hope that this site will be used by people like myself who wish to understand and heal from our experiences. It is my understanding that this site is not really about saying, "I am right and you are wrong", but it is to offer another human being the chance to perhaps understand the suffering that they have experienced.   strength Junior Member Username: strength Post Number: 38 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 69.156.58.113 Posted on Monday, September 24, 2007 - 11:12 pm:        I agree with gcc_1981_grad. We do all need to come forward with what we know, and like you say, it has to be done with the goal of understanding how and why it all happened. I really appreciated reading most of what is written on factnet, because it helps me understand better what happened to me and my friends, and how people in power got caught up in situation where others were hurt. This is one part of the puzzle. The other part, the "big picture", has to be examined by people who were not involved and who have the power to get to the bottom of it. So I believe that it is important to both communicate with each other (through factnet etc) AND to communicate with the authorities.   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 8:12 pm:        Well, I just had to post my thoughts on GCC. It has been a long time since I have revisited these thoughts of the past. Nonetheless, every time I come into a political discussion on "organized religion" and its possible abuse this institution comes to mind. I would like to support some of the writings here. I believe I finished grade twelve at Grenville in 1882 (but it could have been 1981). I call this period the Tommy Hunter years. Father Farnsworth and his lovely wife Betty were present at the school. I believe the headmaster at the time was Father Haig. He had a son n Military College and a wife with dyed hair, lots of make-up and oodles of gold jewelry. I remember this as in one of my disciplinary stages, I was informed by the Haigs that girls should not be wearing make-up as this was quite inappropriate and sends out the wrong messages to boys. The “HEADS” ate each meal on a platform. Each student had to wait for the arrival of the almightiest and stand upon their arrival. I try to forget this time in my life. Here I am 43 years of age and this school still sends shivers up my spine. Anyways, at the initial interview I was told that this was a multi-mixed religious school that accepted all faiths. I told a grey haired lady – I believe her name was Miss Kay- the fact that I had no faith. She advised my dad this was really not an issue. The school practiced an Anglican venue. I was told that I could ride horses, bake cookies and do fun things on the weekend. Well, I never got to ride horses and the only baking I did was in extra meal prep duties. Nonetheless, I must admit I did manage to have some fun on my weekend mall visits. So, my first week at GCC, I was in a bit of shock. There was an awful lot of praying taking place (my knees were sore) and I was going to church every morning and each night. Also, I found out rather abruptly that if one (mainly me) did not participate in the daily religious sing-songs there was a big price to pay. Silence was not an option. I was stripped of my uniform for 2-3 days, I was not allowed to attend classes, and I had to take the tops of salt and pepper shakers and clean them on the inside out for hours on end. Oh, and of course I had extra dining duties. This meant pouring coffee and tea from table to table. I was removed from the masses during the instructional days. Nothing like a little ostracization and peer pressure! Oh, and to top it off - I was taken before the headmaster (and his lovely wife) and their "sidekicks” whereupon I was told and I quote: "you are a horse that has been lead astray and you must be lead back into the pasture of Christianity". So, what's a girl to do? I guess that is what they call attitude adjustment. I wanted to go back to school, this is why I came. I was told that there were no refunds and that my parents would be out the cash if I withdrew from the school.   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 8:34 pm:        I have to split my SAGA in a couple of parts: Now, here I am an upstanding citizen and I have had a nice little career track record. I have served my country and I like to think I have a good degree of common sense. I believe that although I am not affiliated to any religious institution that I am still a good person. You see, I have a problem with organized religion. I have a daughter who is 11 years of age and I ask myself these questions: 1) Would I want my daughter to be a GCC Prefect.: These are the students who to put it quite bluntly brown nosed and bowed to the Christian pressures. Let me explain the “Prefect” candidate. This is the exemplary student – kinda the right marker in the RCMP troop. Not that some of these students probably had the faith (and power to them if they came to this on their own accord) – but this was a pre-condition of this role. I would want my daughter to be in an environment where she could become a leader based solely on her skills and not on her religious affiliation. I would not want her forced to stand up, like myself at year’s end- in front of the entire student body -declaring that I had not become a Christian. I remember seeing a head or two in front of me – but not many. 2) Would I want my daughter stripped of her uniform because she did not want to sing religious songs and chose to be silent? I did stand up during the chorus lines- was this not enough? I just chose not to chant. Would I want her to be ashamed of "who she is" in her common clothes? Would I want her to be ousted from the student body because she had a different belief system? Remember she just is not bowing to the religious teachings. I think not. 3) Would I want my daughter to be in an educational institutional that enforced these "silent periods". These were entire days/ hours were speaking was not allowed. I think not, I would want my daughter to hear her voice. 4) Would I want my daughter to go through the Sears Catalogue and have the "underwear and bra" section torn from its pages? At 17 years of age, I would want her to be proud of her body and trust that it is not simply an instrument of lust. Yes, teenagers can become adventuresome- but they can make informed decisions given the proper tools. Women have come along way since the reformation. Oh, and did I mention the Sports Illustrated "bathing Suit Edition" - where did these pages go???? I would hope that I instilled her with the proper decision making skills to make the proper choices. I guess, GCC did not think that I had these skills.   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Tuesday, November 13, 2007 - 8:36 pm:        And in closing: 5) Would I want my daughter to go to an institution where her personal property was inspected without due regard? No, I would not. Yes, personal belongings were rummaged through during the daytime hours. It's funny how my beloved gold Saint Christopher Cross - just disappeared from my drawer one day. I do believe he had become a denounced Saint- so I was told by some blond hair teacher. 6) Lastly, would I want my daughter to attend an institution whereupon if she did not choose the Christian path that she would be accused of being a cult member? Again, my brother attended this school. Over the Christmas holidays I tried to give him a hair cut. Well that did not work out so well, so my dad had to take him for a brush cut. Upon our return I was asked if I gave my brother this cut for cultist reasons. I remember being told that my failure to convert stemmed from the anger I had with my mother. Remember, there are the atheists and agonistics (the bench sitters -those just not ready to make a decision), they too pay taxes and do volunteer work. These are not bad people. Yes, maybe Grenville had some great theater, good sports and some really nice underpaid teachers. I remember a Math teacher in particular whom I had a great deal of respect for. . However, I came away from Grenville with a bad taste in my mouth and I know I am not the only one. One thing I can say about my time at Grenville is that I will never be a blind follower, I will teach my daughter to respect herself and make the proper choices based on what she believes is right. I will empower her with knowledge and never silence her for her thoughts. I will invite an open discussion and dialogue. I refused to attend GCC for my 13th year-instead; I went to University whereupon I really learned the proper pathway to tolerance and education.   2003grad New member Username: 2003grad Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 64.26.169.113 Posted on Wednesday, November 14, 2007 - 9:41 am:        I wasn't sent to GCC, I chose to go. I had been in a boarding school in England the year before and I loved it. When we came back to Canada, I wanted to go to another boarding school. Also, the local highschool I would have gone to otherwise was full of the same people I went to elementary school with that made my life a living hell. I would come home from school in tears. My parents wanted to get me away from those people. So they went to see Grenville (I was still in England) and they liked it. Granted, they did make my parents believe that the religious aspect was less than it was, but after my first year, I wanted to go back. My parents actually didn't like the place after my first year, but they kept sending me because I wanted to go. Even tho I hated the religion aspect (I am to this day agnostic), half the fun for me was trying to rebel against it... never putting my whole foot over the line, but just a toe. So that's my story.   bonnieb Member Username: bonnieb Post Number: 96 Registered: 1-2007 Posted From: 74.46.56.183 Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 7:00 am:        Thank you, Neverbroken and 2003grad, for sharing your stories.   mandatoryfun New member Username: mandatoryfun Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.231.191.202 Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 7:42 am:        Neverbroken, you say: "One thing I can say about my time at Grenville is that I will never be a blind follower . . ." This is the singularly important lesson I took away from it as well: I will *never* shut off my brain and conscience in order to shoehorn myself into someone's way of life. Now, even in grade 7 I had seen enough to know that CF was not someone you follow -- and excuse my impertinence but I thought you staff and students were crazy to heed him at all -- I bought into the system, partially because it was supposed to be so godly. Plus, it was so confusing to have good, wise people onside with the school. When you've got God on your side, who can argue? If I could have just been raised to trust my own mind . . .   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 7:51 pm:        Hello thank-you for your thoughts Mandatoryfun - I welcome them. Even though I am not a spiritual person I do not condemn or judge those who choose to follow the spiritual road. However, choices are usually based on informed decisions. Alas, one may argue that spirituality is based on faith and reason does not come into this equation. I do not disagree with this notion. But my choice not to be spiritual is made with the understanding of the concept of "faith" itself. I am not walking down the narrow path without understanding that there are other belief systems outside of my own. Grenville exploited the minds of their students through coercive and controlling methods. Not all, as we can see by the many postings, were strong enough not to be blind followers. It is good to choose a path but one must be equipped with the proper light so that they are not hit with the stones thrown by others. We live in society with many cultures and many different spiritual beliefs - this is the art of our society and we must be able to appreciate the views of the tapestry.   priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 90 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.48.106 Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 9:47 pm:        Wow....great posts David. Support is abundant - this suit thing is going to crash and burn. 2003 yes the fun was pushing your luck, no doubt - part of the game.   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Thursday, November 15, 2007 - 10:46 pm:        Well Priest of Satan - I really don't think support is that abundant and the "suit thing is going to crash and burn" - au contraire. Maybe in the late 70's and early 80's the strap was acceptable- but liberalism stepped in and radicalism was going out the door as time went on. Just because one uses the title "Christian College" does not give the license of free reign to rule the roost as one group sees fit. There is a little thing called the "charter of rights " and the "board of education". Remember this was and educational instution - when I went for my interview it was education first and religion second. So, I was lead to believe... Oh, and yes the criminal system lest we forget about this? What exactly does your name mean? I am sensing some radical thought patterns here. Or you are entirely missing the point that some could not play the game correctly. There are a few holy wars out there you might like to join. (Message edited by neverbroken on November 15, 2007)   priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 92 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.48.106 Posted on Thursday, November 22, 2007 - 11:32 pm:        Hey Broken...do your homework I was labelled that by FSquared and BTW You don't know me from a hole in the ground. Do yourself a favor and don't depend on your senses out in the real world...but yes, you are right - I am off to India to assist the rebels in their cause to be allowed to wipe their A**es with their left hand. You got duped by the religion at GCC? Yeah so, join the crew bub - religion was rampant, so what? The suit will fail - too many dumba**es involved that were not actually the ones "hurt" by GCC will kill this one. I have been berated to no end by fellow peers that I know and remember well - some of these "accusers" are sad to say posers - bandwagon jumpers looking for a quick buck - clouding the real plight of the ones that were mistreated. I was mistreated - and have been informed that my lack of self worth must have been brought on by GCC - Wow, yeah, all the short comings, trial and tribulations in life have been caused by GCC - why the H-E-double toothpicks didn't I make that connection? Greed and MONEY mongers <sp?> will kill this thing - the weird thing I alway ask myself is wow, I couldn't imagine 20 years ago thinking I would stand up for GCC - well here I am and there are lots of me's/alumni out there that support the school... (Message edited by Priest_of_Satan on November 22, 2007)   breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 291 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.48.172 Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 11:10 am:        I adore Jason as we all know. But, I am usually disagreeing with him. He was indeed given his moniker by FF. The thing is and I can honestly say I do agree with Jason in that there are bandwagon jumpers out there. It is something that happens with all things in life. I do fear sometimes that it can hurt what people are working towards. I have discussed this privately with people and seem to be assured that the powers that be can disect the truth from fiction. And, that everyone who went to GCC is twisted in some ways so just accept it. I am not sure how I feel about the accepting of it as it bugs me a lot that this is happening. Having said all of that, I agree that this exposition is about accountability. I believe too in someways it is retribution seeking as well. Because to seek the accountability and should it happen is retribution. I am not going to predict the outcome of how all this will work out and how long it will take to work out. I have to take this leap of face and hope I am not bashed and judged. But, I know for a few days now this situation has depressed me it has taken me to real pits of despair and a lot of self examination and recrimination. One thing I know about my own self is that I am a surrvivor and I can cut it during crisis and I fall apart later. Honestly, I am falling apart now. The situation has it presented taught me a lot and it pushed me in a direction I never thought I would revisit in terms of a career path. I am grateful for that. But, it also gave me emotions back that I denied for so long and now I am not sure how to place them, how to deal with them and frankly I am not liking how I am feeling. Years ago I could switch it off when it happend and now I just can't. Jason, if you do feel that way about yourself, I would venture to guess that it is a product of GCC. I know my lack of self trust and self esteem and my general outlook is because of a lot of what happend so long ago. I am angry and disgusted with myself because I did not recognize it sooner and allowed it to virtually destroy a lot of me and for me in my life. I am angry because I played the game (my game) and did what was necessary for surrvival back then. But, never stopped when it was over to access the damage. I think a lot of your point is get over it and move on! I am not sure though short of counseling and identifying where it came from and asking for help for whatever one needs it can be easily done. For myself I know a lot of who I am is waking up now and stuff I understood intellectually and in theory is now being played out in the practical now. Sometimes, I am slow to get things beyond the theory. I am a tangiable learner.   breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 292 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 64.187.48.172 Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 11:30 am:        I think the point I am trying to make is that now that the dust is settling and I did what I had to over the last few months I am burnt out. I feel like I have nothing left. I helped a lot of people, I know I did. I listened to many view points and mulled a lot over. I had my own part in all of this. And, sometimes I got skewed a long the way, sometimes I got taken in too. I am not regretting it by any means. I am just saying that now I am finally able to acess my own self. And,I truly believe that I am damaged goods. I am not going to entirely blame GCC, my parents or anyone else. But, I know we were abused and perhaps we can debate intention, but not now. I know that my life was affected deeply by my time there. They were formidable years in a kids development and it was skewed to say it mildly. On Maslov's hierarcy of needs we got the base there, we had food and shelter. But,we were denied Spiritual, Emotional and Mental stability. We were denied the ability to form friendships and trust. because we had to be dependant on the top and that is what they wanted. As an adult I now know what happend and I am not really seeking the whys so much. What I do not know as an adult and I should is how to turn this around how to make me better and how to fix me. So, yeah I won't deny that I had some quilty feelings about seeking my retribution but I can tell you I do not now. I am not sure money will fix me I am not sure what will. But, I know I want these people who were the adults when I was a child to stand up and be accountable to me and so many others for what happened. I want them to recognize my pain and my suffering. I am sorry to be so blunt but that is how I feel right now. Right now I feel hurt, betrayed, insecure and angry. And, I am not really sure how or where to begin dealing with all of this. I just know I do not want to feel this way, I want to forgive and I want to be happy. I am not sure this was the right place to dump this, I am not sure anyone can understand either. I just feel like it has to be said. I am sorry if I angred anyone or upset anyone too. Liane   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Friday, November 23, 2007 - 6:33 pm:        Well, Priest I don't need to do my homework to understand that you are a bitter person. One can see this by just reading your postings. With respect to your comment "you got duped by the religion at GCC so join the crew bub" shows that you have not taken the time(or totally missed the point) to understand my writings. Au contraire. I went into Grenville Christian College as one person (lacking spirituality) and came out the same person (lacking spirituality).Hence the nickname "Nieverbroken". I don't blame GCC for the person I was or who I am now. Nonetheless, given that I am a parent today, I would not choose to send my daughter to such a fanatical institution. And the so called accusers who are posers are really irrelevant. Welcome to class actions suits - some profit materially while others don't. So what. That does not make the action invalid. I think that most will agree this was not a mainstream school and obviously some former students are obviously having some issues. The point is this: Organized religion is governed by a set of rules and as such these rules take the liberty out of personal interpretations. Once you remove the freedom or ability to individually interpret something - in essence, you are standing between the the painting and the artist. Now as adults, some are standing back and are bitter that they did not have the mindset of the present day to interpret the events of yesterday. Welcome to adolescence,this is why we need to protect this rare commodity in time. If this class action suits shows that these GCC fanaticals were outside the law - so be it. There's a price to pay when violating some body's liberties whether it is an organization or individual. If some profit who are not so broken (posers)- who cares. Maybe he/she will give his/her share to charity. Or maybe not - I hope they go for a nice dinner. I really don't care. In closing, maybe the rebels in India like using the right hand. Maybe they don't want your help - you better ask them first. (Message edited by neverbroken on November 23, 2007) (Message edited by neverbroken on November 23, 2007)   quietgrl Member Username: quietgrl Post Number: 51 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.193.90.64 Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 10:59 am:        Neverbroken: I too would never send my child to GCC... I wonder how many alumni did? I don't expect many... karma eventually catches up... don't you think??   sandrabrownearly Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 72.66.158.53 Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 11:56 am:        I've told this story before, but I visited GCC a few years ago and sat in on a brain storming session they had where they discussed the declining enrollment. They asked me if I would ever consider sending my children and was the tuition a detriment. While I certainly don't have the money to send my children away to school, my real reason is that I can't imagine not being the main influence in their lives during their teenage years! (And remember...I loved going to GCC.) When I heard they were closing, I didn't question their "declining enrollment" statement and assumed that maybe it's just not as prevalent as it used to be to send children away for high school. (Most of their students were from foreign countries towards the end there.) I wonder how many alumni sent their children to any boarding school...is that still very common, or have times changed?   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 7:50 pm:        Hello quietgirl-yes, everything comes full circle for a reason. Some would say it is "karma" and others would say "what comes around goes around". And others would just use the Forest Gump term "SH_T HAPPENS". Sandra- as for the declining enrollment. I think that many people still send their children to boarding schools if they have the cash. But these schools are geared towards higher level education without the extreme "christian soldier mentality". I do believe that with the socioeconomic changes, more women in the workforce, and a more tolerant society geared towards understanding and accepting individual differences - institutions like Grenville did not fit the bill. They have a very narrow highway of thought that just does not fit into mainstream society. I think parents want to equip their children with the proper tools to make the proper choices- not radical choices based based on a very narrow vision of society. If my daughter chooses to be religious so be it. Nonetheless, I will show her there are other boats (belief systems) out there still afloat even though they are not using her paddles (so to speak). Thanks for letting me into your discussions. Don't you learn more when people are allowed to speak? (Message edited by neverbroken on November 25, 2007)   sandrabrownearly Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 74 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 72.66.158.53 Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 9:17 pm:        Neverbroken...thanks for your thoughts. You make a lot of sense. So sending kids to boarding schools is still the norm...maybe it's just my part of the world...when I say I went to a private boarding school people look at me like I have three heads. A local private school they understand, but boarding school for high school just blows their mind! I had a conversation when I came up to the GCC Closing weekend with an alumni who said that her parents weren't going to send her to boarding school but that upset her...everyone else in her family went so she wanted to go to! Going was the norm. That's just not true in my little corner of the world. And even after attending and walking away feeling like that was such a bigger than life experience for me, I would never in a million years send my child away to any school for High School. They grow up so fast as it is...college is soon enough for them to spread their wings and fly. (Although looks like the oldest may need to be pushed!)   certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 63 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.99.43 Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 10:00 pm:        First, I was sent to Grenville, because my parents told me that they wanted the best for me. Grenville was recommended to my parents as an elite Anglican boarding school. My family was living in North America at the time and the school had been recommended by friends of my parents. The brochures sent to my parents indicated that Grenville was an Anglican boarding school. After my parents deposited me at GCC and departed home I found myself living in a horror film. I was an Anglican before, during and after my departure from GCC and I have never encountered anything so bizarre and horrific in the worldwide Anglican Communion since. After the departure of my parents, I was soon introduced to the cult practices and teachings of the Community of Jesus, which is based in Orleans, Massachusetts. Whereas I watched the Grenville staff present GCC as an Anglican institution to my parents, it was actually a Community of Jesus institution in practice. Indeed, the administrators of GCC concealed their affiliation with the Community of Jesus to my parents and others. My family has a strong belief in boarding school education that goes back several generations. I am not saying boarding school is for everyone, but I am pleased with the other boarding schools that I attended. I will send my children to boarding school, as will many people in our situation. My wife and I have demanding careers, which make boarding schools useful. As more and more women continue to work outside the home, boarding schools will continue to be in increasing demand. It goes without saying that I would never send my children to a cult like Grenville. Having said that, I do want my children to have the boarding school experience, and a superior quality of education that the public sector can’t easily offer. I was in a position to donate money to Grenville and I did not. I was also in a position to recommend Grenville to others and I did not. Because of the way Grenville abused its students, they failed to establish an alumni endowment. I have given money to the endowments of the other schools that I had the good fortune to attend.   certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 64 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.99.43 Posted on Sunday, November 25, 2007 - 10:12 pm:        To continue, Grenville has had a bad reputation in many quarters for years. In 1995, I heard a lecture in Edinburgh, UK by a teacher from Upper Canada College. After the lecture, I introduced myself to the teacher and he shuddered when I mentioned that I had attended Grenville. He asked how I ever survived such an institution and suggested that there should have been a public investigation into the school’s methods. Many people knew about the school. When I was in Brockville at the closing, I made a point of asking local people what they thought of the school and it was referred to as a “religious loony bin.” My parents did not have the internet as a research tool when I went to Grenville, but that is not the case today. For the past several years, I have noticed websites detailing the horrors of Grenville and the Community of Jesus, which I am sure have informed parents looking for a safe school for their children. I have also been told by former staff that Grenville enrolment declined dramatically during this period. Factnet can take credit for some of this decline. Today, Grenville could never get away with what it did to children when I was there. Today children have access to mobile phones, the internet and blackberries. Children and people in general are also now more aware of children’s rights. There has been a great deal of public education since the 1980s. When I was at Grenville, I told the Dean of Men that what they were doing to me was illegal and that I had rights. I was told by him that I had “no human rights”, which was an outrageous lie for an educator. In conclusion, the Grenville story is rarefied to say the least and it should not be taken out of context. Most expensive boarding schools in western civilisation are not affiliated with abusive cults. I have also done some research and contacted other elite Canadian boarding schools and they do not have declining enrolments. Indeed, I have been told that the demand is greater than ever and that there are waiting lists.   sandrabrownearly Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 75 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 72.66.158.53 Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 12:00 am:        Found some interesting info on line... Before you read it, I think it's important to say that I parent the way I do because it works for me and mine. I'm sure that boarding school is right for many children and to me, that is what is the most important thing...is it what is best for the child. (Especially, gifted children that aren't being challenged other wise.) "[A]n increasing number of parents are deciding against boarding school. Enrollment at private day schools has grown 15 percent in the past decade, while enrollment at boarding schools has grown only 2.7 percent. Overall boarding school enrollment dropped from about 42,000 in the late 1960's to 39,000 in the last school year -- even though, according to the Census Bureau, the population of 14- to 17-year-olds was more than 1.5 million higher in 2004 than in 1968. "Reporting on this, The Wall Street Journal attributed the shift away from boarding school to a trend of greater parental involvement, which translates into parents reluctant to be apart from their children. This is, evidently, the same reason some parents are now accompanying their teenagers to boarding school; these mothers and fathers literally move, sometimes cross-country, to be close to the campuses of the boarding schools their children attend. "While the new breed of super-involved parent strikes me as slightly creepy (having worked as a private-school teacher, I've also seen parents whose idea of "involvement" is doing their children's homework for them), I don't think the conclusion they've come to is the wrong one. Among the reasons I wouldn't send my own child to boarding school is that being around one's adolescent peers 24 hours a day doesn't seem particularly healthy. It makes the things that already loom large in high school -- grades, clothes, sports, heartache, acne -- loom even larger. "Going home at night provides physical distance from the relentlessness of all teenagers, all the time, and, ideally, parents provide perspective. Although they might be dorky, parents know an important lesson about everything from serious hazing to the embarrassment of dropping a lunch tray in a crowded cafeteria: This, too, shall pass."   sandrabrownearly Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 76 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 72.66.158.53 Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 12:07 am:        Thought this was interesting too... Pros and cons of boarding school by Jennifer Richard Jacobson, M. Ed. We are considering sending our eighth grader to boarding school, but are a bit nervous about effectively guiding our child from a different location. What are the advantages and disadvantages? To assist me in answering your question I contacted Rosie Bensen who teaches mathematics at a boarding school, and whose children attend a different boarding school (high school). Rosie writes, "The operative word in the question is 'sending.' I firmly believe that the child must be involved in the decision making. Parents can encourage and nudge, but if a child does not feel that they are in charge of this decision to go or not to go, or at least feel as if they are a full member of the decision-making team, then the experience may well backfire." Children who feel "sent away" may disengage from the experience or rebel. The pros of boarding school vary from child to child and school to school. Many children need a new scene. Their current school may not be eager to forget past school performance -- particularly if the child has difficulty controlling his behavior. "Boarding school allows the child to reinvent himself, to form ties with different kinds of friends, to leave behind negative behaviors," says Rosie. It provides a fresh start. Sometimes the local public school and the child are simply a poor match -- the local public school cannot meet the child's needs. If there are not good private day schools in the area, a child may need to attend a boarding school. Other reasons for sending a child to boarding school may be excellence in teaching, lower class sizes and a wide range of curricula offerings. The arts can be superb, the sports more wide-ranging. Boarding school can help children grow in independence, and friendships formed in boarding school often last a lifetime. As for cons, you have already raised the most serious reason for not arranging for a child to go to boarding school. If your child is away, you will miss those little opportunities during the day to discuss, share and help him process the events of your child's life. It's hard to guide from a distance. Rosie adds, "A parent cannot consistently tell how their child is doing. If you don't establish good communication by phone or email, then you feel quite out of touch." Since you will be missing those happenstance moments when important issues and questions arise, you have to rely on the school to teach your child values. Make sure that school teaches the values you hold most dearly. Another con to boarding school is that your child may experience homesickness or a sense of isolation. Eighth grade can be a sensitive time for many boys. Know that a good school should keep close watch over your child and must offer an advisor and counseling services when needed. One last drawback that Rosie mentioned: You will miss your child. "If a child is unhappy," she says, "having them away is very hard." She learned to ask her children to call her back shortly after a "venting call." That way she wasn't left worrying about them for days. Talk to your child about the pros and cons in order to engage him in the decision-making process. Together you can come up with a plan that offers the best for your child's emotional, social and academic growth. Good luck to you.   priest_of_satan Member Username: priest_of_satan Post Number: 94 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.229.48.106 Posted on Monday, November 26, 2007 - 7:02 am:        perspectives are perspectives...maybe I am bitter. Maybe I am just a product of my own up bringing - I mean I did not ever have a father - do I blame my mother for not sticking it out? Who knows...maybe I do. If the rumours are true surrounding some pretty serious health issues with one of the FSquared kids - then it has come around regarding Karma. I simply do not support the witch hunt being waged by MM,SC & TR and their poor me syndrome. all the sharing on FactNet is fantastic - I can actually hear/read how some are better dealing with whatever they feel affected them at GCC....but this is what it should all be about. Not class action suits led by posers and money grubbing so an so's. Heck, each time someone puts me in my place - one is hard pressed not to do some bigtime soul searching - hahahhahaha...so thanks to all the Priest of Satan non-believers!! However, for those that do - Mass begins 6:30am sharp Saturday mornings inside the Air Canada Centre - because the DEVIL has to be the reason why the LEAFS bite!!!!   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Tuesday, November 27, 2007 - 8:00 pm:        Certavi- thank-you for your enlightening threads. They point out the fact that there is a need for private boarding schools as you illustrated in your case and that not all of these institutions are cultist in nature. Sandra, does not see a need for a private school in her case- I totally respect her reasons for not choosing this avenue. You completely hit the mark with respect to the Internet and blackberries being a downfall of Grenville. When people are allowed to talk and communicate ideas with one another, it is more difficult to hide behind the grey stones. A second case in point is the failure of the alumni endowment. Even though religion may feed the spirit, it does not fill the pocket. Students graduated and some went on to higher education and some did not. Some are making money and some are not. There may be a correlation between the two and there may not. You really don't need to be an academic to see that this "Community of Jesus" ideology is not a mainstream group. Fine if you choose to join it when you are of a mature and sound mind but to impose this ideology under the guise of Anglicanism and higher education is very misleading. I had no idea about the Community of Jesus when I went to Grenville. I just thought there were a bunch of underpaid teachers living in a bunch of trailers with a bunch of highly controlled children. But I quickly realized that this place did not resemble any religious institutions on the outside world that rang their bells on Sundays with open doors. Nor were my parents, who at this point were the consumers, aware of this "Community of Jesus" affiliation. And herein lies the problem and may be the seed for the lawsuit. It is one thing to openly preach your organization and ascertain members - it is another thing to gain them under fraudulent methods. I think practises such as the above bring religion into disrepute and give spirituality a bad wrap. (Message edited by neverbroken on November 27, 2007)   late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 9:43 am:        While I can see the points being made about the alumni endowment, and how former students wouldn't want to contribute, I can't say the same for the internet or "blackberries". I know it's hard to believe, but Grenville changed pretty drastically over the past 8 or 9 years. Not only were the computer labs equipped with internet access, but I know for a number of years at least, students were required to have a laptop (either purchased, or rented). Also it was quite common for students to be allowed to leave school property after classes. Even the staff were no longer living on campus. The school was making postive changes. It's unfortunate they were unable to continue to do so.   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:01 pm:        I want to climb out on a limb and say I totally blame both my parents for sending me to GCC. My parents failed to protect me by not doing what parents should do. My father did more research buying his 72 Cadillac than checking out the school I was to spend a year of my life at. My parents have to stop making themselves feel better by pointing the finger to the school. I was never abused nor saw any abuse. I saw a community closed to itself with strong beliefs and ends that justified the means. I agree with what Mr Priest of Satan has been preaching. Every person I see leading the charge against GCC had behaviour problems before, during and after Grenville. Somehow I sense that no method of raising them would have been acceptable. They for the most part are losers and enjoy the spotlight that has been created. When it is all over they will feel empty and miss the attention they have been asking for all their lives. EP   lightsout Junior Member Username: lightsout Post Number: 47 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 76.100.148.78 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 12:57 pm:        Now we have a fake certavi?? nice one - loser   certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 65 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.99.43 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 3:51 pm:        Dear Fake Certavi, I had no behaviour problems prior, during or after attending Grenville and I got along well with my parents. My parents had never heard of The Community of Jesus. They thought they were sending me to an Anglican boarding school. Clearly there was some misrepresentation. PS: Your Latin needs some work.   quietgrl Member Username: quietgrl Post Number: 52 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.193.90.64 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 4:18 pm:        I will second the real certavi_et_vici ... I was a very good kid... I had decent grades in school, was active in my former school's community. I was not out of control nor in need of controlling... I was sent to gcc ... because my parents wanted me to get a good education... I was never sent there to be fixed... and my parents took me out of gcc when they realized what was going on... (as a good kid... I trusted them and told them...what was going on... and they believed me.... and removed me...) I was not sent there to be fixed... and the treatment I was given there was not ok... I did not deserve it... I am glad fake certavi did not see or receive any abuse... Must not have been there during my time there... Personally, I can not agree that the ends justified the means... what happened to some... ( not all) was simply not ok...   papillon Member Username: papillon Post Number: 70 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 70.62.111.2 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 4:34 pm:        Fake Certavi ... too funny. GCC certainly misrepresented itself to outsiders as Anglican (in origin). I was sent to GCC precisely because of its CoJ control. It was not mainstream Anglican, it was CoJ ... So, Fake or EP, who are you kidding when you write: Every person I see leading the charge against GCC had behaviour problems before, during and after Grenville. First off, "behavior problems" is a subjective term that is understandable only within a certain cultural context. What is a "problem" to some is welcome to others. If, for the purposes of discussion, we define the term as actions illegal or punishable under American law ... then I think you will find much wider per-capita distribution of such behavior among the individuals and "leaders" of the CoJ and GCC than among the general GCC alums.   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 6:09 pm:        You people are not "leading the charge" and therefore are not the ones implied in my statement. Those "leading the charge" would be foolish to post as I am sure their lawyers would cringe at the thought and have most likely warned them not to. Even if I hated the school, I would not be caught associating myself with them. You people for the most part are nice people, discussing issues and making reason of past events. Please don't call me fake. I was under the assumption we were free here to express without condemnation.   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 6:26 pm:        papillon In regards to "behavior problems" that would be my opinion knowing why they were sent to Grenville, and the fact they were constantly on "D". Smart people do not rebel against something that will not be changed. They know the rules whether they agree or not. They choose to break the rules, making their lives tough. Today they look for reward in attention and possibly money, hopefully, years down the road. With every one alumnist cheering them on, there are nine shaking their heads in disgust. A silent majority.   quietgrl Member Username: quietgrl Post Number: 53 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.193.90.64 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 7:20 pm:        Where would the world be if there were not people who were willing to stand up against things that others thought could not or would not be changed??? I applaud those who have the courage to speak the truth... those who are willing to bare witness to what went on around them... and those who are standing in the uncomfortable position of being out front... leading the charge...   inthe70s New member Username: inthe70s Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 99.242.109.43 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 7:28 pm:        Smart people do not rebel against something that will not be changed. They know the rules whether they agree or not. They choose to break the rules, making their lives tough. uh, did we all go to the same place?? at GCC, no matter what you thought, did, or said, you were wrong .. you didn't need to break any rules to be on the receiving end of anything. I got the paddle for something I had absolutely nothing to do with , just the fact I knew it took place got me the paddle o_0 I also had a 3.5 hour light session for something the *original 6* got stuck in their craw that wasn't even remotely true, followed by the paddle because I didn't break and admit they were right I asked to go because my brother was already there, neither of us was a problem child before after nor during ... any issues i developed while i was there, i firmly believe were a direct result of that environment (Message edited by inthe70's on November 28, 2007)   quietgrl Member Username: quietgrl Post Number: 54 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.193.90.64 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 7:36 pm:        Remember Cold Grits? We were told those girls were smart enough not to break the rules... but FF knew that they were breaking the rules in their mind.... how does one protect themselves against that??? Being smart had nothing to do with it... having a mind of your own.. that did not perhaps conform to the doctrine of the school and the COJ... was all that one needed to get them oneself in trouble... again... all characteristics I find admirable in a person..   endless_night New member Username: endless_night Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2007 Posted From: 12.217.208.195 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 8:49 pm:        You couldn't put it any plainer then that inthe70s! Must have been CoJ influence at work. Those who actively tried to keep out of trouble were punished for that! Something about "defying the spirit of the rule, if not the letter of the rule." I know for fact that if they couldn't figure an individual out, they would make up things to punish them for.   tmw Member Username: tmw Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.70.68.213 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 9:08 pm:        “Please don't call me fake. I was under the assumption we were free here to express without condemnation.” You (who ever you are) are certainly free to express your opinion without condemnation, but how can you possibly expect anyone here to take you seriously when you are “posing” under someone else’s name….that action reeks of fake and inflammatory postings. “In regards to "behaviour problems" that would be my opinion knowing why they were sent to Grenville, and the fact they were constantly on "D".” I was NOT a problem child in any way shape or form….I was sent to GCC because my mother was under the impression it was an elite school and it gave her bragging rights amongst her friends….that was it. I was not on D constantly…however I was subjected to multiple “group sessions” which entailed public humiliation of my peers regularly, being put on silence for days, being ridiculed for “thought crimes”. For the most part the population of GCC were good kids. It was not always about the kids that were “problem children” and on “D” all the time, there were many others that suffered under that regime that had not broken any “rules”. To dismiss the many people that were “persecuted” at GCC because they were “problem children” is a fallacy. “Today they look for reward in attention and possibly money…” It may interest you to know that with respect to the residential school case, the victims received a payout of 10,000$ each. After that payout each victim was assessed based on number of years and victimization. The average victim in the residential school case (if they attended for a full term meaning from 5 – 18) stood to gain between 20 and 30 thousand dollars, not much of a financial gain considering. Look it up on the net and do the math…that’s what I did…to say that ANYONE is doing this for financial gain is simply not accurate.   cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 175 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 9:17 pm:        WELL SAID TMW!!!   cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 176 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 Posted on Wednesday, November 28, 2007 - 9:19 pm:        WELL SAID QUIETGRL AND TMW!!!   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 8:57 am:        tmw Tell me it is not so?!?! Are you one of the few "leading the charge"? If you are not, then my comments are not directed towards you so please do not attack me. If you are, then you are plain stupid and you either have not respected the lawyers request for keeping quiet or your lawyer is negligent for not advising you to keep quiet. Which is it tmw? Leading or just supporting the leaders?   late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 10:10 am:        Do you have to be named as a plaintiff to receive any of the money from a class action lawsuit award or settlement? I only ask becuase if that is the case, then the three plaintiffs in the Haber class action lawsuit (since there are apperently 2 seperate class action lawsuits) seem to be seeking quite a bit of money, as their lawsuit is for ONE BILLION DOLLARS. However I have no idea where they expect this money to be comming from....   breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 293 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 69.157.42.126 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 12:35 pm:        Dear "OTHER" Certa, Whether or not TMW is involved in anything they have said nothing here incrimminating! And, you ask not to be attacked, yet you call them stupid??? I agree with everything said with regards to just possibly thinking.... or even better they thought you might be thinking? They obvioulsy did not have Cay and Judy's intuitive powers at Grenville. It did not matter what you did at Grenville, the rules switched all the time. So, even if you conformed on Tuesday to the "D" you rec'd Monday...On Weds you were in trouble again.... Because apparently you did not get the memo! I have said it before and I will say it again. The world is full of followers.... Those that follow the rule of COFJ and those that do not. I for one have never been a follower...likely my demise as a lifer at Grenville. It takes guts and determination to be a leader, it takes commitment and drive... And, if you have a consious and goal it takes love and caring for those that you lead. And it takes strength because you battle every day those whom oppose you. A lot of work and thought has gone into this... it was not a whim! Those that lead this fight are true believers and have a love for those that have been hurt and affected. So, I say God's speed and good luck... and to quote "the spirit of truth shall prevail"   certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 66 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.99.43 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 12:49 pm:        Fake Certavi, You are posting under a misspelling of my name. In any case, it is a clear indication of your motives. I have given evidence to the Ontario Provincial Police, the Anglican Church and the media, and I will continue to do so. I would encourage everyone who has information of any criminal behaviour to come forward and fulfil their civic duty. I am aware of hundreds of former GCC students and staff who have already done so and they are very brave to have done so in the face of such opposition. I have found the Ontario Provincial Police to be very cordial and not the least bit intimidating. I am sure they are working very hard. I can also confirm that everything reported in the media is accurate. This is not about leading charges, but about pursuing justice and shedding light on darkness. Indeed, there is much more light to come. "Evil prospers when good men do nothing."   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 12:55 pm:        late_lights You do not have to be named as a plaintiff once the action is certified by the courts as a class action. The money will be free flowing to everyone who was a student. That's us! No risk at all. However the three plaintiffs namely: Timothy Blacklock, Markus Vincent, and Martini Whyte will foot the legal bills if they lose. That's of course if it goes to trial and they lose and if the defendants seek damages which of course they will. Since there are many defendants and insurance companies involved I can imagine some high priced lawyers. The costs could top over a million dollars easily and take several years. That means the three musketeers could end up paying several hundreds of thousands each unless some other suckers put pen to paper and seek the risk. In a nutshell they take all the risk and the rest of us sit back and hope for a good Christmas present by 2013. Smart money should not be placed with these losers. Breaker 19 Girl should put her money where her mouth is and join the Haber threesome. EP   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 1:16 pm:        Fake Certavi_et_vevi, You claim??? "I am aware of hundreds of former GCC students and staff who have already done so" YOU ARE A BLATANT LIAR! Hundreds of former GCC students? Absolute B.S. You can confirm everything reported in the media is Accurate? MORE LIES! How about Thursday September 13th article in the Brockville Recorder and Times where it states that Christopher Haber said that over a thousand potential plaintiffs have contacted him. That is a lie! Email him CHRIS.HABER@HABER-LAWYER.COM and confirm that as of that date it was only a handful. You are a liar and should be concerned about what crap you are spreading for you own ego and financial gain. That will come back to haunt you in a court of law. The real certavi_it_vici   quietgrl Member Username: quietgrl Post Number: 55 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 207.61.101.2 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 1:27 pm:        What is it to anyone else how and individual choses to respond to their experience? If you do not agree with the action... don't take part in it... to each his own.   certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 67 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.99.43 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:04 pm:        Fake Certavi, These are classic GCC/CofJ bullying tactics, which have been repeatedly used in the passed to silence people. Again, I am aware of hundreds of former GCC students and staff who have already given evidence to the police, the Anglican Church and the media and they are very brave to have done so in the face of such opposition. Again, like hundreds of others, I have given evidence to the Ontario Provincial Police, the Anglican Church and the media, and I will continue to do so. I would encourage everyone who has information of any criminal behaviour to come forward and fulfil their civic duty. I have found the Ontario Provincial Police to be very cordial and not the least bit intimidating. I am sure they are working very hard. I would hope that people would not be intimidated by Fake Certavi into not fulfilling their civic duty. Everyone with information should come forward. I can also confirm that everything reported in the Globe and Mail articles about GCC is accurate. The charge was made that the Globe and Mail articles were inaccurate and that is what I was responding to. I stand by everything that has been stated in the articles by Michael Valpy. I am also prepared to give evidence in court about all of the above and other matters that have yet to be revealed. "Evil prospers when good men do nothing."   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:33 pm:        quietgrl Hey, I am happy its the Haber "Manage et Trois" going to foot the legal bill in the end. They will pay, because they will lose. Certavi, my clone You are posting under a misspelling of my name. You are so full of shite, it cracks me up. LOL. Hundreds eh? Any other B.S. you want to feed the hungry masses with? Look at yourself in the mirror and ask that angry face reflecting back to you if lying and embellishing the facts is worthy of respect in the end. The fact that you falsify information is a clear indication of your motives. Ignore this person. I am the real certavi_it_vici   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:38 pm:        certavi, Oh I get it! You have tripple counted everyone. Because of this witch hunt created by characters like yourself, you get the same people to line up in the other lines and count them again. This is how you count hundreds? Haber must have done the same. They count every email, phone call, person walking buy, dog crapping in the park as a person going after GCC. Am I correct that this is the method of computing numbers? BTW you failed to indicate to everyone on this board who you really are and why you are here. I am sure you will dissappear when they find out the truth. Cannot wait to expose you.   papillon Member Username: papillon Post Number: 72 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 70.62.111.2 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:56 pm:        Hey, what happened? Thought the trolls had been purged. To the trolls ... i'm sure you'll flame this ... but normal adults just do not do what you guys are doing ... especially "people of faith" ... they just don't behave like that. Attaining a more normal and balanced psychology might be a goal worth considering.   certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 68 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.99.43 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 2:58 pm:        Fake Certavi, As you well know, it is a violation of the terms of Factnet to make the threats that you are now making. It is also further evidence of your motives. Oh Fake Certavi, do behave...   delight_session New member Username: delight_session Post Number: 14 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 131.137.245.197 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 3:31 pm:        If the articles in the Globe and Mail are all lies ...then why havnt the GCC followers pressed charges for slander and liable?   certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 70 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.99.43 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 3:46 pm:        Delight session, You make a good point. The GCC followers do not have a leg to stand on, because former GCC members of staff have gone to the media, the Anglican Church, and the police, and they have given evidence to support what has been written in the Globe and Mail articles. Does anyone remember Joan Child's fulsome apology, or her interview with Michael Valpy? No, there will be no legal actions brought by GCC supporters. They have no case.   late_lights New member Username: late_lights Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 192.197.178.2 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 4:25 pm:        Where/when was her interview with Michael Valpy puplished? I only ever remember seeing her apology.   certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 71 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.99.43 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 4:37 pm:        This articlw appeared on the front page of the glove and mail on 1 September 2007: Apology for ‘hurt and pain' at private school MICHAEL VALPY From Saturday's Globe and Mail September 1, 2007 at 12:58 AM EST Ontario's Grenville Christian College, which has closed amid allegations of cult practices, was an emotionally, spiritually and sometimes physically abusive place that caused “hurt and pain” to staff and students, a former senior administrator of the elite private school acknowledged Friday. Joan Childs, who worked at the school for more than 30 years, posted a public apology on an Internet message board that former students have been using for more than a year to talk about what they experienced and suffered. “What was done to people at GCC was very wrong,” Ms. Childs wrote. “I was very wrong. And I am so sorry for all the hurt that was caused to each of you by me and by all of us in positions of leadership.” Former students have described a bizarre environment where they were hauled from their beds in the middle of the night to be harangued for hours by staff at so-called light sessions about being sinners. They have said they were constantly humiliated by staff, and put on “discipline” for months at a time where they were prohibited from attending class or speaking to anyone. They also have mentioned occasional physical and sexual assaults, and spoken of living in fear and psychological isolation at the school. Grenville Christian College, which charged up to $35,000 a year for boarders and $17,000 for day students, announced at the end of July that it would not open for the 2007-08 academic year, citing declining enrolment and rising operating costs. The school had close links until 1997 with the Community of Jesus in Massachusetts, a titular Anglican charismatic group at one time labelled a cult in the U.S. news media. Subsequently, a new religious group was created at the school called the Community of the Good Shepherd, of which Ms. Childs, whose husband John was a teacher at the school, became leader in 2000. In an interview, she said she broke away from the school's past actions after God opened her eyes to the wrongs done, and she was helped by a pastor, Kevin Smith, whom she hired to teach at Grenville.   certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 72 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.99.43 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 4:42 pm:        Continued: "Originally, we were a very, very sincere group of people who wanted to do God's work. We always remained sincere, wanting to do God's work, but along the line … we blindly – and I find it embarrassing to say – we blindly got off the track. “We started off just being too legalistic [in biblical interpretation], but we went way past that to being – and I'm going to have to use the word – emotionally and spiritually and sometimes physically abusive.” She said she tried to show the community where it had gone wrong and she hoped eventually to raise money to provide therapy – she called it restitution – for students and children of staff who had suffered emotional damage, but the community became fractured and dysfunctional, and she and Rev. Smith eventually left the school. One former student who speaks of having lived in fear and pain at Grenville is Ms. Childs's daughter, Mel Childs McDaniel, 30, now married and living in Philadelphia. “I've told my husband a number of times I wish there were marks on me because physical abuse is so much more tangible and visible than emotional abuse,” she said Friday. The school was almost literally two communities, with one group – overseas students and the sons and daughters of wealthy Ontario families – not knowing what was happening to the other group – children with behaviour problems basically dumped at the school by parents who wanted them “fixed” and the children of staff, almost all of whom belonged to the Community of Jesus. The staff children were treated the most harshly. Ms. McDaniel said they were removed from their parents without notice and assigned to live with other staff, whom they had to call aunt and uncle – but only when other students were not around – and who could punish them at will. “At any moment of any day, you could be just swept off your feet, put on discipline, you had to move somewhere [into another family grouping], you couldn't talk to anyone. It was fear. You lived and breathed fear.” At light sessions, she said the staff children were forced to taunt and harangue other staff children for their sins or become targets themselves. They formed no close friendships for fear their friends would denounce them to the school authorities. “There were a few staff kids who were truly braver souls than me, and fought harder, but the consequences were so severe that they scared the •••• out of us. We could just be shipped off to the Community of Jesus [in Massachusetts] at any moment. “None of it made sense. You couldn't figure it out. But I believed all of it. I believed I was going to hell. I believed everything. As much as we were unhappy, that's all we knew.” Ms. McDaniel said she would not defend or speak on behalf of her mother, but she did stress that her mother had come to understand the psychological hold over staff members that the school authorities and the Community of Jesus exercised. Ms. Childs, with a sad and remorseful catch in her voice, recalled the words of a hymn she used to sing when she belonged to the Community of Jesus: “You are wrong, you are wrong, “No matter what you say or do, “You'll always be wrong.”   certavi_et_vici Member Username: certavi_et_vici Post Number: 73 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 71.191.99.43 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 4:46 pm:        Late lights, You can also view this article on the Globe and Mail website.   wagener84 Intermediate Member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 111 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.151.117.98 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 9:11 pm:        The smart money is on the lawsuit being successful, likely in an out of Court settlement. There are simply too many witnessess to what took place at GCC for many years. Even students such as myself who were not targetted or abused witnessed plenty of inappropriate and psychologically damaging practices. I was there from 77-84 and witnessed it all. I am preparing an affidavit as we speak and I expect to be subpoenaed to testify. I would love nothing more than to see the financial collapse of the CofJ as a result of this lawsuit.   quietgrl Member Username: quietgrl Post Number: 56 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.193.90.64 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 9:19 pm:        Thank you real certavi...for reminding me about that article... I need to go back and read the others... I think at the time they came out.. I was so relieved to see them come forward that I did not absorb the details.. it was really very brave of Mrs. Childs to speak out like that... and amazing to see the forgiveness that has flowed as a result of her speaking the truth...   cryfreedom Intermediate Member Username: cryfreedom Post Number: 177 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 24.226.27.60 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 9:25 pm:        certavi_it_vici--------We know who certavi_et_vici is and welcome his insight and knowledge 100% on this site!! It is YOU who have not reveiled who you ARE!!! And try coming up with your own user name!!!   papillon Member Username: papillon Post Number: 73 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 24.40.146.45 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 9:36 pm:        Yes, actually I think Mrs. Childs has shown a lot of courage and integrity in speaking out, and standing up for the truth when asked.   wagener84 Intermediate Member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 112 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.151.117.98 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 10:45 pm:        Is it just me or are the comments made by bogus certavi somewhat similar to a previous individual who was banned off of this site? I think Certavi is Sinderella back for another crack at defending the indefensible!! lol Nice try.   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 11:04 pm:        I have a basic question - why is anybody even paying attention to what this fake certavi has to say? His motive of discussion is to place seeds of anger and hostility among the group. Otherwise he would not deliberately try to misrepresent himself and put the real certavi in a bad light. Debate is good but it has to be fair. I just skip over his postings and go straight to the real certavi. And may I say to the real certavi - I am proud to have you on the team. You lend credibility to the entire panel of discussion. Cheers!   pandersen Intermediate Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 103 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 11:15 pm:        You know what, Fake Certavi's postings smell very much like sinderella come back with a new name to share her odious musings.   pandersen Intermediate Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 104 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 Posted on Thursday, November 29, 2007 - 11:23 pm:        Now I read the rest of Fake Certavi's postings. It is definitely sinderella back again. Nice try, sindy. Everyone is really scared of your pathetic threats.   tmw Member Username: tmw Post Number: 78 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 70.49.85.49 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 7:07 am:        "Tell me it is not so?!?! Are you one of the few "leading the charge"?" I am not "leading any charge", merely expressing my opinion. "If you are not, then my comments are not directed towards you so please do not attack me. If you are, then you are plain stupid and you either have not respected the lawyers request for keeping quiet or your lawyer is negligent for not advising you to keep quiet." As for attacking you, I was in no way attacking you, although you did however choose to attack my by calling me stupid if I were "leading the charge".... as for the rest of your drivel....I stand by my orginal post. Me thinks Sinderella has returned...   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 7:46 am:        tmw, You are confusing. I said, If you were leading the charge you would be stupid for posting. Since you indicate you are not leading the charge then my comments do not apply to you, and therefore are not an attack on you. Those who are leading the charge are idiots by virtue of the fact they expose themselves to a huge legal liability on something that as Priest of Satan said, would crash and burn. neverbroken, You are confusing as well, as the mere fact you post about me, indicates you do not skip over my postings. so..... Stop lying. wagner84, I like you. You appear to be the only person here that has any sense in their head. You are not an angry person, like the rest of em, and are open minded and forgiving. You also are light hearted and playful. panderson, A Yankee getting revenge in Canada because the U.S. is too extreme to do anything against your true foe.... The CoJ. You do not care about the litigants who risk everything, you care about your anger and revenge against your true enemy. The CoJ. cry freedom, You reverence of Certi is reminiscent of a cultish fantasy. I want to start a church. How about following my philosophy? papillion, You crack me up. To all, Anyone who is not part of this Anti-Cult-Cult is obviously not welcome. We who seek a true balance by questioning the lies and B.S. (Certi.... Hundreds? LOL!!!!!) are pushed out shunned. BTW: Who is Sinderella?   gcc_1981_grad Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 98 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 74.15.64.161 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 8:26 am:        certavi_it_vici how do I get placed on your list?   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 8:50 am:        The real gcc 1981 grad. Start by wiring all your money to my offshore account in The Grand Caymen. Once you have proven to me by doing this, that you are worthy of my attention, then we will plan together to fleece the others. LOL EP.   gcc_1981_grad Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 99 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 74.15.64.161 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 8:55 am:        I cannot do that, but I can invite you for dinner. I think that you have a historical view of the concept of leading. I think that your historical view of leadership is based on a team or an organization, or even an individual who makes decisions and then summons a group of people to execute these decisions. This hierarchal concept of leadership does not exist with what is going on with GCC. What is leading, for lack of better words, is each ex-GCC student’s personal quest to make what is wrong within them right. How that is done, is by clearly identifying the problem and then dealing with it. This is all being done according to the individual’s trajectory. Thinking that there is a leader – and lopping off the head of the snake – so to speak will not solve anything   gcc_1981_grad Member Username: gcc_1981_grad Post Number: 100 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 74.15.64.161 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 1:16 pm:        or maybe some people just really care for the human spirit   quietgrl Member Username: quietgrl Post Number: 57 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.193.90.64 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 1:24 pm:        Well said gcc_1981_grad ... and very accurate I think... I do not see any one leader... only people being led by their own hearts... and sense of moral responsibility... that is the beauty of the current technology... people are able to find each other... and share their common experience.. One thing I am curious about is...I am wondering where the aggression is coming from... The only people I see attacking here are those who do not agree with the experiences of others... Every one has a right to an opinion but not to attack others... or discredit their experiences... or to threaten others with exposure etc... Certavi_it ... are you worried about people being exposed to liability? Are you trying to save them from themselves? If you are.. I would suggest to you that they are adults ..... making informed decisions... they will and can do as they wish... ie they can weigh the benefits and consequences of their actions and chose to act accordingly... My understanding of legal liability is that a statement is only libellous if it is not true... those who should be concerned are not those that are speaking out... but those that committed the acts....   delight_session New member Username: delight_session Post Number: 15 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.241.24.62 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 4:16 pm:        Only followers look for leaders. Fake certa your a #$%^@ idiot. Everyone here is a leader. If they were still followers they would support FF and GCC.   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 4:21 pm:        Hey delight session Why don't you kiss my Arse? Ok.... You are not a leader. Look out of the window of your 12x60 trailer and look to see if you can see any. LOL   delight_session New member Username: delight_session Post Number: 16 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.241.24.62 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 4:35 pm:        The Last time I looked out the windows of a trailer in a trailer park I was in a staff residence at GCC and saw the main building... perhaps I even saw you. Sorry Bubbles, Ricky and Julian. I hope I didnt offend you guys...you rock!   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 8:35 pm:        Just wondering - did anyone here graduate or go to GCC in 1982?   delight_session New member Username: delight_session Post Number: 17 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.241.24.62 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 9:06 pm:        I went in 81/82 ...I think   breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 294 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 69.157.40.202 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 9:44 pm:        Hi Neverbroken, I was there in that time period... I was there in 78-84. Breaker 19 girl... Aka Liane Ross   sandrabrownearly Member Username: sandrabrownearly Post Number: 77 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 72.66.158.53 Posted on Friday, November 30, 2007 - 11:35 pm:        I'm 81-84!   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:04 pm:        Breaker girl - I think I might remember you - did you connect (translation: were close buddies ) with a guy by the name of Andy - short black hair - good looking chap- from Ottawa while you were there? Do you have thick blond hair and freckles? I am assuming this is okay to ask since you have revealed a name.   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Saturday, December 01, 2007 - 12:43 pm:        Delight - it looks like you and I were there in the same year. I only went for one year - grade 12. That was enough for me. Sandra - it looks like you may of been behind me. Now I am sure we have all gone our various career paths, but how interesting that after all these years we still talk about this institution. Goes to show you how the adolescent years are very informative and definitely impact you in later years to come. Again, this shows the important roles that schools and peers play in society.   breaker_19_girl Intermediate Member Username: breaker_19_girl Post Number: 295 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 69.157.40.202 Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 1:13 pm:        neverbroken, no I am tall, dark in eyes and hair. Was a few lads named Andy in those days.... Liane   wagener84 Intermediate Member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 113 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.151.117.98 Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 5:54 pm:        Michael Wagener 77-84. Sent to GCC when I was 12 and graduated when I was 19. I was sent there because my dad was an abusive alcoholic. I spent some difficult years there but am grateful I was never a target. Notwithstanding, I have always empathized with many former friends and class buds who were treated badly. I am convinced that abuse and fundamentalism in the name of religion is the cause of much of the earth's pain. One only has to take a look at the middle east as a prime example.   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 8:03 pm:        breakergirl - I guess I don't know who you are but I do enjoy reading your threads. Yeah, I guess there were a few guys named Andy in those days but this guy really stood out. I met him a couple of years later on a bus when I was coming home from University. Small world. Wagner, I agree with you totally. The issue with fundamentalism is that it is usually associated with excessive behaviors/ideologies which in turn can lead to the abuse of power. Anything in excess if not handled correctly can lead to the path of destruction for the holder, the follower or the bystanders. Sorry to hear about your dad, I hope things have worked out for the both of you.   wagener84 Intermediate Member Username: wagener84 Post Number: 114 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 68.151.117.98 Posted on Sunday, December 02, 2007 - 10:47 pm:        Things worked out for him...he passed away back in 1988. The only way he found peace I guess. As for myself, well I am a strong believer in the human spiriit and have managed to persevere over the years. I have learned to set aside bitterness and try to live each day to its fullest.   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 12:57 pm:        Yeah I too believe in the human spirit - it is amazing what one can endure if one digs within. I do not believe in bitterness - as this can lead to self destruction. When one sets aside the bitterness - the weight is lifted - and one can actually move forward without this burden of despair. It sheds a whole new light on life. Pity and understanding can be powerful tools to finding the sunlight buried behind the clouds. But life is good if one focuses on the positive and minimizes the negatives. Denial is not a bad thing sometimes. Power to you Wagner.   neverbroken New member Username: neverbroken Post Number: 20 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.67.253.203 Posted on Monday, December 03, 2007 - 1:02 pm:        Yeah I too believe in the human spirit - it is amazing what one can endure if one digs within. I do not believe in bitterness - as this can lead to self destruction. When one sets aside the bitterness - the weight is lifted - and one can actually move forward without this burden of despair. It sheds a whole new light on life. Pity and understanding can be powerful tools to finding the sunlight buried behind the clouds. But life is good if one focuses on the positive and minimizes the negatives. Denial is not a bad thing sometimes. Power to you Wagner.   timmergolf New member Username: timmergolf Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 216.185.93.82 Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 9:45 am:        Hello everyone. After reading all of your stories concerning GCC I have finally been able to successfully sign up. I am one of the named plaintiffs in the class action suit. I want to thank everyone for their stories both good and bad. It has taken alot of strength to come forward after all these years however after reading some of the posted messages of other peoples struggles I was compelled to come forward. I read what everyone writes so its not a waste of time and I thank all for taking the time to post. Tim Blacklock. Merry Christmas everyone.   timmergolf New member Username: timmergolf Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 216.185.93.82 Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 9:47 am:        Hello everyone. After reading all of your stories concerning GCC I have finally been able to successfully sign up. I am one of the named plaintiffs in the class action suit. I want to thank everyone for their stories both good and bad. It has taken alot of strength to come forward after all these years however after reading some of the posted messages of other peoples struggles I was compelled to come forward. I read what everyone writes so its not a waste of time and I thank all for taking the time to post. Tim Blacklock. Merry Christmas everyone.   certavi_it_vici New member Username: certavi_it_vici Post Number: 16 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 99.224.17.2 Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 1:17 pm:        Hello Tim. You definitely have balls. Much more than me. It was suggested that those launching the lawsuit must have had separate legal council before signing the action against GCC. Did you get separate legal council or did you just talk with Haber?   timmergolf New member Username: timmergolf Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.70.161.237 Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 3:39 pm:        I have a lawyer on retainer from one of my other business's that I had an off the record discussion with and he recommended I go forward. I also wrote the ArchBishop who strongly recommended I contact the OPP he also wrote to me that my story wasn't much differant than he had been hearing from others whom I never meet. He stated simular stories had been heard by him over the past several weeks. I was upset I didn't do more sooner and with the support of my parents we may have been able to stop things years ago by coming forward. I joined the Haber suit to give support to others as I have the credibility to back my allegations as to what happened to myself. I have watched your conversations with others ceravi_it_vici and it seems like there may be two of you. I wish you luck withwhatever you are looking for through all this and I would appriciate your support on letting people in a proper position of authority to make a ruling in this case and we will all have to accept the conclussion in this democratic society we live in. Thanks for your interest. Tim   timmergolf New member Username: timmergolf Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.70.161.237 Posted on Saturday, December 08, 2007 - 3:49 pm:        I have a lawyer on retainer from one of my other business's that I had an off the record discussion with and he recommended I go forward. I also wrote the ArchBishop who strongly recommended I contact the OPP he also wrote to me that my story wasn't much differant than he had been hearing from others whom I never meet. He stated simular stories had been heard by him over the past several weeks. I was upset I didn't do more sooner and with the support of my parents we may have been able to stop things years ago by coming forward. I joined the Haber suit to give support to others as I have the credibility to back my allegations as to what happened to myself. I have watched your conversations with others ceravi_it_vici and it seems like there may be two of you. I wish you luck withwhatever you are looking for through all this and I would appriciate your support on letting people in a proper position of authority to make a ruling in this case and we will all have to accept the conclussion in this democratic society we live in. Thanks for your interest. Tim   quietgrl Member Username: quietgrl Post Number: 59 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.193.90.64 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 11:12 am:        timmergolf ... there is a large facebook community... have you checked it out?   timmergolf New member Username: timmergolf Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.70.161.237 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 1:32 pm:        I am on facebook. Not sure if I am understanding you right.... is it like a GCC community?.... ex students? or just the normal facebook? If its differant from the norm.... maybe you could share the directions. Thanks Tim   quietgrl Member Username: quietgrl Post Number: 60 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 67.193.90.64 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 5:52 pm:        There is a factnet group on facebook...you have to be accepted in.. ie it is a closed group... so it sometimes takes a day or two to get in... as the people running it need to check out who you are...search factnet and see what comes up... it has been pretty quiet for some time on that site... but... it is fairly friendly..   timmergolf New member Username: timmergolf Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 67.70.161.237 Posted on Sunday, December 09, 2007 - 7:12 pm:        Thankyou for the information quietgrl. Tim   tabby1979 Member Username: tabby1979 Post Number: 90 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 207.216.241.43 Posted on Wednesday, December 12, 2007 - 11:34 am:        Hi Tim - welcome and thank you for your post. Your name rings a bell, a distance bell, lol...I was at GCC from 76 to 79. Glad to see you online. Merry Christmas to you as well. Tabby (Lois Gamble 1979)   pandersen Intermediate Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 105 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 Posted on Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 7:49 am:        certavi _ i t _ vici is a troll who used to post under the name "sinderella." She is not the same as certavi _ e t _ vici. Just to clarify.   nochor New member Username: nochor Post Number: 8 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 72.38.144.85 Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 6:35 pm:        Just a note about your comment pandersen, I don't think that they're both the same. I did a little bit of quick poking around, and sinderella always used the same IP address, and certavi_it_vici uses a different one (but always the same one). It is quite possible that they're both different people with a similar agenda (life is funny that way sometimes)   strength Intermediate Member Username: strength Post Number: 109 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 69.156.1.57 Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 8:34 pm:        Nochor is likely close to the truth here. In my mind, Sindy had more inside knowledge, and seemed to be representing a certain group with a certain agenda. I've wondered if Sindy was put in her place by some of the people she was trying to speak for. She gave too much information away.   pandersen Intermediate Member Username: pandersen Post Number: 106 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.87.143.158 Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 9:42 pm:        I hear your point, but my guess is that sindy, the _it_ girl, found another computer to work from with another IP address. Her tone and manner were just too similar. But who knows...   strength Intermediate Member Username: strength Post Number: 110 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 69.156.1.57 Posted on Monday, December 17, 2007 - 11:08 pm:        Pandersen, you could be right too. The tone of both is similar. Its the same strategy of trying to shame people into shutting down. Seems kind of pointless, given how much has managed to be revealed since the summer.

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