Pentecostal Churches - Archive 12-01-...

Thread Last Poster Posts Pages Last Post Pentecostal/Charismatic Religious Abuse arron 49  1  11-10-06  10:31 am   Closed: New threads not accepted on this page

Author Message   Anonymous Posted on Monday, May 27, 2002 - 1:13 pm:        I am very worried I think that the church i go to is a cult if theres anyone out there who can tell me if it really is please let me no. We have to wear long skirts and shirts no makeup no hair dye no jewerly and you have to have your hair all the time becuase other wise u can attract a man who is not your husband. No radio no tv no music unless its apporved. You marry and date who the pastor wants. The man is in control and works woman stay home and bear kids and cook and clean. Well thats about it. Oh yeah and they dont bieleve in the triintity.   Sunny Posted on Sunday, June 02, 2002 - 11:24 am:        Sounds extremely similar to the cult I grew up in (and my dad was/is a preacher too). Except that our church DID believe in the Trinity. If these restrictions (that you listed) feel uncomfortable to you or if you're doing them simply because the pastor says so and not because God personally led you to do them....then maybe it's a cult. I can tell you that for me personally I am no longer under the bondage of those restrictions and am 100% happier and freer!! Whenever I get around any of those people from my past, they look so downtrodden and sad and invariably I wind up being depressed for a couple days myself.....so I totally limit my involvement as much as possible.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, June 09, 2002 - 12:01 pm:        Yes, this sounds like a cult to me. How much more controlling could it get?   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 12:59 am:        Most Pentocostals do not have the dress code called the 'standard,' that was suppose to bring back holiness and gender roles to be more defined. The majority of Pentocostal churches do not have any kind of dress code and are Biblically sound churches. I have been in all the denominations and I know personally that they are nothing to fear, they are sound doctrinally! Cults, according to Christianity, are any group using a book other than the Bible, even if it's along with the Bible. This covers groups such as Mormons (the Book Of Mormon), Jehovas' Wittness (the Watchtower), some sects of the Seventh Day Adventists (E.G. White's books), Bahia (books by Bahalala), and so on. These groups use other books first mainly, especailly concerning the contradictions between them and the Bible- and there always are contradicitons- so know the Bible well so you aren't decieved by anyone!!!!!! There are many good Pentocostal churches that are very Biblcally sound, believes in the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, and the baptism in the Holy Spirit, and the gifts such as healing. They do believe that Jesus still heals today, but accept doctors and medicine as help also. They believe in the use of all kinds of musical instrunments, unlike Baptists that only use a piano. They are very modern, and have women in the ministry also as from Joel chapter 2 where in the last days God will pour out His Spirit and the sons and daughters shall prophesy. And the first house church being started by Martha, a woman! They are very doctrinally sound major denominations of Pentocostal churches such as the Church Of God Of Prophecy, The Assemblies Of God, and The Vineyard Christian Fellowship, The Church Of God (Cleveland TN, not to be confused with the new age cult that is based in South America also called the Church Of God), all these are Bible believeing churches and are not cults! They are major denominations that are not controlling anyone. I like them because they are not controlled by the masonic temples like a lot of Christian churches are, and the masonic lodges are the heart of many cults! There are many books on them and cults like them inside Christian bookstores and I recommend everyone go read the books exposing cults from a Christian bookstore! They are full of books comparing religions with what the Bible actually says. If you know the Bible well, you will not be decieved! Cults contradict the Bible in most ways, and it doesn't take long to find scriptures that will show you what is happening is wrong. Jesus never manipulates, controls, and never wants anyone to leave their family behind or cut them off, He is always for reconciliation. Make sure you church leader has the Fruit Of The Spirit mentioned in the Bible, and if they do not, go elsewhere. Beware of traditions of men, man made rules that are not in the Bible- cults tend to do that! Also beware of legalism, saying that by keeping any kind of rule will bring salvation while not recongnizing that the blood of Jesus is where our salvation lies- a salvation by works kind of teaching. Also, don't let anyone manipulate you in giving your tithes, as it is a requirement from God (Malichi chap 3), but its' the giving from a joyful heart- not a controlled manipulated one where a person is doing what someone told them to do- or our of fear that there salvation relies on it! If there are cults out there, I think usually if it's a major denomination, that it's just a false prophet and not the whole denomination. There are mentally ill people to look out for everywhere, just know the Bible and don't be decieved by any of them! Do not go to a group using another book outside the Bible that they teach and study from! that is a direct sign of a cult! Stick to a major denomination, in Pentocostalism those churches that I named are all over the US and other countries, and many internet websites. Always check out a churches doctrine to be safe, before you've been there long enough to say you belong, and go to the cult section of Christian bookstores to read about cults and what groups to not join!   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, June 12, 2002 - 3:28 am:        My Uncle and Aunt are members of a local Pentacostal church. The churches around here enforce the dress code, but not the ban on TV. These churches amuse me, because on one hand, they come off as holier-than-thou, and on the other, their members engage in some real debotchery (pardon the spelling). One personal experience, I went to one of the Penty churches with some friends. We left half way thru the service (thank you almighty God for giving me an escape!) and soon afterwards, were driving thru town drinking (well not I, I abstained that night). The Penty girl drank a ton that night. She is also pregnant, unmarried, and the odds are 9 in 10 that that baby will be Black. She tends to be the norm, not the exception. But are these churches cults? Tough to say. I'd say they are soft cults. They are appocalpytic, authoritarian, exclusive, and will guilt trip you for leaving, but I don't think they will fair game you like Scientology would. They are not a threat, just a group of backwards people with questionable ethics.   URALLKULTZ Posted on Wednesday, June 19, 2002 - 6:39 am:        Pentecostalists are cultists of the worst kind. Mr/s "my Jebus is better than your Jebus" who gave us the post above is a prime example. God I hate red neck bible thumpers. Cults don't have to contradict the bible; the bible can do that all by itself.   Anonymous Posted on Monday, July 01, 2002 - 12:00 am:        I have a friend who was in a Pentecostal cult in New Bedford, Massachusetts. She had to dress according to the standard. Her son could not watch television except for christian videos. People would drop in the middle of a sermon and speak in tongues. The pastor told her that she could not leave her abusive/cheating/drug and alcohol using husband Who, by the way was obviously NOT in the church. She was told to try to persuade him by her own christianlike action to join the church. Instead, this guy walked all over her for years. she was the laughingstock of the town. One of the men who had dropped and spoke in tongues ended up raping her after he invited her over for bible study. When her toddler found marijuana and a strippers phone number under her couch, she finally left the bum AND the church. She is now a normal, healthy, educated, successful single mother. Nice house, nice neighborhood. Great son. Bad people those pentecostals were. Good riddance.   NINA RODGERS Posted on Saturday, July 27, 2002 - 8:13 am:        My Dear friends why not try Jesus AND ASK HIM IF HE IS NOT REAL. hE IS ALL LOVE, AND HE LOVES YOU, AND WANTS TO WATCH OVER YOU. HE DOES CARE AND HE DOES NOT WANT YOU TO STAY WITH A MAN WHO HURTS YOU. THEIR ARE GOOD AND BAD IN ALL CHURCHES. AS THEIR ARE IN THE WORLD. ITS NOT RELIGON ITS jESUS FIND OUT WHO HE IS AND FOLLOW HIM. HE IS THERE WHERE YOU ARE. TO THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN HURT BY CHURCHES. E MAIL ME I WOULD LIKE TO BIND UP YOUR HURTS BY THE GENTLE LOVE OF jESUS .gOD BLESS   Anonymous Posted on Tuesday, July 30, 2002 - 9:16 am:        I met Jesus in Portland Oregon in 1993. He's a junkie living on the streets, and in no condition to enlighten anyone. I would not reccoment following him.   Carlotta Applewood Posted on Friday, August 02, 2002 - 12:42 am:        I believe that any man setting himself up as a god, and telling his flock that, is running a cult. Tulsa Apostalic Church has just an exaulted leader. He has made it a sin to swim, bowl, watch t.v., as well as the old standard. It is eternal damnation to anyone who trys to leave his little flock. He spends his Sunday sermon time bashing and badmouthing all other religions, and any member who isn't sitting in the seats and paying lots of offerings to his building funds. He announced to us: "I am God's voice, and what ever I say is the same as God himself saying it". I need help as to helping my son get his family out of that hell. My daughter-in-law believes everything pastor says, and is willing to divorce my son and take the 4 kids, who don't like the church, and want to go with dad. IS THER ANY LAWS AGAINST FORCING CHILDREN INTO ATTENDING A CULT? PASTOR SAYS MY SON IS NOT THE HEAD OF THE HOUSE ANYMORE BECAUSE HE WON'T COME TO CHURCH, AND SHE IS NOT TO FOLLOW HIM ANYMORE. MY SON IS DEAF, AND A WONDERFUL HUSBAND AND FATHER. I DON'T LIVE IN TULSA. DOES ANYONE HAVE ANY IDEAS? THANKS   Anonymous Posted on Monday, August 05, 2002 - 4:51 am:        To the post dated June 12, 2001 at 3:28 am. What if the baby was black. Does that make it any worse? Sin is Sin. If the baby was white it wouldn`t make it any less so. I know you are trying to make a point but think how you word it next time   Anonymous Posted on Tuesday, August 13, 2002 - 4:51 am:        I am sorry to hear that some of you had bad experiences in the United pentecostal Church. But resorting to calling the UPC a cult is a bit far fetched. The UPC and other oneness churches do nothing less than preach what is in the Bible. Their teachings on dress,hair,baptism,ect. can be backed up with scripure. I am so glad that I am in the truth. ApostolicLady   Shayne Posted on Saturday, August 24, 2002 - 7:04 pm:        The Pentecostal faith is not, in any way a cult. It does not have any written Scripture in place of or in addition to the Bible (which is by definition, a cult). Most pentecostals believe in the Trinity. I myself am Pentecostal, and there is no definition which can claim that Pentecostalism is a cult. I don't believe in women not being able to cut their hair (though they should not have short hair), I don't believe women should only wear skits and dresses (though, short-shorts and other improper clothings, of course, is not appropriate for any follower of Christ). Every doctrine in the majority of Pentecostal churches is Biblically-sound. Thus, Pentecostalism is no more a cult than is the Baptist church, or Methodist, or Lutheran. Many people claim that Pentecostals are cultists, but it is obvious that they are fake in that they don't even know the doctrines of the Pentecostal faith- and cannot debate these doctrines with sound Scriptural evidences. However, if you feel God does not want you where you are, try an Assembly of God church (not as strict), or another protestant church that stands firmly on the Holy Bible. God bless and keep you.   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, August 29, 2002 - 7:43 pm:        I spent 13 years with this "system" and "came out from among them" then subsequently wrote a book: The Pentecostal/Charismatic Cult, and the modern day church in general. 90,000 words. No fees. http://pccult.bravepages.com   Rev. Brandon Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 2:03 pm:        I am a Pentecostal, truth speaking, preacher and i think that it is very wrong what you people are doing. If you go to our website or message boards, you cannot find one thing that bashes another religion or denomination. First of all,we are not a cult in any way, form or fashion. We only preach the Bible and nothing else. Our doctrine and holiness standards are all found in the Holy Word of God! Women should never cut their hair and men should never have long hair according to I Corinthians 11: 14-15. Men should only wear pants and the women should only wear skirts because that defines the genders and pants are for men and skirts are for women. No makeup whatsoever because that is telling God that you don't like the way that He made you and you are going to fix it. No T.V. or movies whatsoever because it invites a spirit of Satan into your home that should not be there. you shouldn't even have a monitor in your house. All of these and other things that we believe are found in the Bible. There is only one God, there is NO trinity!!!! Deuteronomy 6:4 says," Here O Isreal, Our Lord Our God is One Lord." Colossians 2:9 says," For in Him(Jesus) dwelleth all the fulness of the Godhead bodily." Ephesians 4:5, I Timothy 3:16, St.John 1:1,14 Acts 2:38-39: "Then Peter said unto them , Repent and be baptized everyone of you in the name of Jesus for the remission of sins and ye shall recieve the gift of the Holy Ghost. For the promise is unto you, and unto your children and unto all that are afar off even as many as the lord our God shall call." Acts 2:4- " Then they were all filled with the Holy Ghost and began to speak in other tongues as the Spirit gave them utterance." This is truth!!! Please visit your local United Pentecostal Church soon. or our website- WWW.UPCI.ORG GOD BLESS YOU!!!!   Anonymous Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 7:00 pm:        The worst with the pentecostals is that they do not admit being a cult that forces behaviourisms in the people they catch. The same way the Mormons force their members to accept dietary regulations, the pentecostals brainwash women into things like "no make up" and some other weird stuff. Look, if we should accept what god gave us, there wouldn't be any need to wear any clothes at all to go to church. Everybody would be going nacked! Adding to this, those reverends do not go to work for a living like everybody else. It is a form of financial assurance for themselves, each time they catch a new member. Hey, it is like being caught by Amway or something like that, except that in this case they play with guilt and punishment, the bible is like a tool that they use to manipulate the people. Beware of those little Christian reverends, cos none of them knows how to make a living in honorable ways. They practice mental vampirism with their followers!   Anonymous Posted on Monday, September 16, 2002 - 7:07 pm:        Beware of people telling you that you have to dress up this or that way to worship god. Nobody can tell that the western european way of dressing is what "Jesus" has "prescribed" on his followers thorugh the bible. Actually, Jesus wore skirts when he was on earth!!!   Richard weinber Posted on Sunday, September 22, 2002 - 9:44 am:        I am personnally appaled at the total lack of critical thinking that these Pentecostal Believers have, readers dont worry about things such as apparel restriction, look into their eyes and "souls" they are totally deluded in their thought process believing they have gifts of the holy spirit today, tongues counterfeit estatic tounges, healings would not measure up to Pauls gifts at all, please use your common sense and see the deciet, of this movement, and look to Christ in his fulness and see the beauty of his person.   Anonymous Posted on Monday, September 23, 2002 - 12:01 am:        I attend an Assembly of God church. We do not push the dress code like many other pentocostal churches. My husband at one time has attended the upc and found that they preach more on thier own convictions rather than biblcal facts. If you read the bible especially the new testament you'll find that it focuses more on the heart rather than the outer apperance. I do belive that we shouldn't dress to catch other's men's eyes sexualy but that doesn't mean that we have to dress "frumpy" As for not cutting your hair I know where that idea comes from. It is out of Corinthians. It says that a womans hair is her glory but go on and read the next verse it also says "If any one should have any CONTENTION with it that there is no such TEACHINGS..." contention means problems. I'm not saying that the UPC church is bad. I know some very powerful men and women of God that attend these churches but I am saying that they are not the only ones that are going to make it to heaven no matter what they think. You need to know the bible for yourself and not just take someones word for it. Man is real good about preaching thier own convitions. If you pray about it God will not let you fall into the wrong path.   The Author Posted on Sunday, September 29, 2002 - 12:49 am:        If you really want the low down on the P/C Cult, read this online book: pccult.bravepages.com   Ben Posted on Sunday, October 13, 2002 - 4:46 pm:        An Examination of the Denial of the Doctrine of the trinity By Oneness Pentecostalism http://www.reachouttrust.org/regulars/articles/cult/trinityone.htm Most Pentecostal Churches are Biblically sound and accept standard Christian Doctrines such as the trinity, salvation by faith, etc   Anonymous Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 1:18 pm:        Women with short hair makes me think they are lesbians! Enough said!!   Anonymous Posted on Monday, October 14, 2002 - 8:54 pm:        I'm sure women with short hair and lesbians are not concerned with what you think.   Johnny Christian Posted on Thursday, October 17, 2002 - 11:52 pm:        God Bless you in the Name of Jesus Christ,you know i feel so sorry for you Trinitarians,you put down the UPC so hard and make fun of us but thats ok becouse Jesus Christ told his Chosen People this was going to happen in the last days,you call us {Jesus only} and a Cult but if you only realy knew Jesus Christ you would fall on your Faces and Repent,you make fun of us becouse we shout,dance speak in toungs and are Filled with the Holy Spirit,but you just don,t know that when you do this you are making fun of the Holy Spirit Itself!!! For Jesus Christ is the Holy Spirit that lives with in us and gives us Peace,Joy unspeakable that makes us jump up and down, dance,clap our hands and Praise Him with all our Mind Boby Heart and Soul,i feel so so sorry for all of you that you don,t truly know our Joy and His True Blessings! its so very said to see the Apostate man made Trinity Doctrine make 99.9% of porfessing Christians follow eachother stright into Hell!!! becouse they flat out reject the love of the truth, yours in Christ Brother Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 5:42 am:        To Brother Johnny You said "It is so very said(sad) to see the Apostate man made Trinity Doctrine make 99.9% of porfessing(professing) Christians follow each other stright (straight) into Hell". Are you saying only .1% of professing Chritians are going to escape hell? Would that .1% be Christians in pentecostal chruches? Surely you don't believe that. You know you don't have to speak in tongues, dance around and fall on the floor to gain salvation. You can have perfect peace and joy without it. I remember once when I was young my aunt took me to a pentecostal church, her own. People were screaming and dancing and jumping all over the place. Because I didn't understand, it frightened me. Of course it wouldn't scare me now but it is just not for me. That does not mean I have not accepted Christ.   Angela Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 12:57 pm:        Look, Jesus Christ Himself said to love the Lord your God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength and to love your neighbor as yourself. Half of my family is in the Apostolic church and they do not do either of those. They condemn anyone who isn't in their RELIGION and talk about anyone whom they dislike, behind their backs. If a church is where we worship God then why do you have to look good? Do you not think God sees you everywhere? I suppose that dressing a certain way impresses Him? Actually the Bible says GOD IS NO RESPECTOR OF PERSONS!!!!! He looks at the heart, no matter how many hypocritical RELIGIONS (and that is all they are, someone's interpretation of what they think is right.) look at the outward appearance. I'm sorry, but God sees me when I eat, sleep, take a shower, everything. And if dressing a certain way is Supposed to make Him see me as more Holy, then I would ask for a Biblical reason, and then ask how Jesus could possibly bless the Prostitute who washed his feet with tears..I'm quite certain her hair wasn't done up nicely with a long flowing skirt and no jewlery. People, get over denominational walls and see that it exactly what SATAN wants, people in the family of God to hate each other, turn against each other and be so freakin' arrogant. No one on this earth is any better than another. When we finally wake up and see that, maybe we can began to do what Jesus commanded in the first place. God is L-O-V-E. He is not mocked, He is pure, loving, compassionate and He does not seek out and destroy those who do not fit a certain outward mold. We are all created equal, whether we are black, white, Native America, Chinese, Mid-Eastern, Asian, Islanders etc. Everyone is equal, and He loves us all the same. We DO not have to look a certain way to be his child. I know this...I was in the cultic church that tried to manipulate every single thought I had, but I had something inside me that wouldn't let them, and it was the true JESUS, true love, and the question, "Why would God, be so Evil like you portray him to be? Making people be something perfect and above others when He is no respector of persons, why would He ignore the homeless, people of a different race, the poor, and why would so many families be destroyed in His name, if it is real?" I had a mother who broke out of the cult and broke us out too. I hated her then because "she ruined our perfect family" but if it weren't for her being unafraid of what they would do, and determined to get me and my 2 brothers out, God forbid. Jesus Christ is Lord, and He is Lord of all the Earth, one day EVERY tongue will confess, and EVERY knee shall bow, but blessed are those who choose Him now.   Angela Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 1:22 pm:        Ps-To the "Apostolic Lady" who made the comment "I AM TRUTH" just proves how sick and twisted these people are. If I recall correctly the BIBLE, (You know, the book you claim lays out all these written laws as to what we should look like, not live like) says, "I am the truth, the way and the life." How can a mere human be "THE TRUTH??" I am confused, are we ignoring the fact that God says have No other gods before me, and making puny little gods of our own arrogant selves? Whatever happened to loving and glorifying HIM, instead of a religion, that is man made I might add. I also have a comment, the person who wrote the message on 10-17-02 about the Spirit giving us peace and hope, if you have that peace and hope, why then does all this bother you? I do believe in ALL the gifts of the Spirit, but I don't glorify tongues above the rest and think it's some secret tool to Heaven's gates. The Bible says He is the same yesterday, today and forever, and it also says not to change a Jot or Tittle of the word. Ok, speaking in tongues is just as important as the gift of mercy, or discernment, healing, teaching, helps etc. But I don't see you saying that you have to have the gift of Mercy to be Filled with the Holy Spirit. Shouldn't a tree be known by it's fruit, and why then did at least 4 people from the Apostolic church we attended, myself included, end up in a mental hospital? I'm sure you have some excuse, but the Jesus I serve, doesn't sexually, mentally, and physically abuse people. And nor do people who serve Him. Don't throw your doctrine at me, I know, I grew up in it, I've heard it, but PRAISE GOD, now too I have escaped, and heard the real truth, and the truth SHALL SET YOU FREE, FREE INDEED!!!   Angela Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 1:38 pm:        PPS-When you believe that you have to be Baptized in Jesus Name, and also Baptized in the Spirit by Speaking in tongues, how then do you explain the verse that says,"One Lord, One Faith, One Baptism." Which Baptism is THE ONE?????   Bro Johnny Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 5:52 pm:        God Bless you in Jesus Name!!! thats such a Beutifull verse,and it tells us that theirs no two Baptisms,ACTS 2:38 AND MATTHEW 28:19!!! Acts 2:38 was the only Baptism every used in the Bible by the Apostles through out the 27 books of the new testament!! and not intel the year 325AD was that changed by constantine into the Trinity Baptism! and forced it on the known Christian world,and MARK 16:16-17 Tells us true beliviers that! these signs shall follow them that belive,{they shall speak with new tongues;}in RED LETTER the very words of Christ Himself! he diden,t say they might or the could,{He said they SHALL!!!} yours in Christ Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Friday, October 18, 2002 - 7:48 pm:        Sorry also in JOHN 3:5 it also says In RED LETTER the very words of Christ Himself! Except a man be born of water and of Spirit, he cannot enter into the Kingdom of God,once we are Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ for the remission of our sins then the Holy Spirit can freely enter us and dwell in us!!! the Spirit of Truth and Wisdom,and that is Christ Himself living in us inabling us to overcome sin,the Holy Spirt can not dwell in a unclean temple,,yours in Christ Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 12:55 am:        These people are going to be held acquaintable on the day of redemtion for having pervaded the word of G-d so badly that they led others to lose their faith. They use semantic and rethoric to prostitute the word unto levels of ridicule that create indignation among the true followers of the gospel of Love. The messages posted by some of these freaks provoke only rebuke in the younger generations that are sincerely searching for a reliable source. Those individuals expose themselves as crazy and wacky brainwashes instead of showing any fertility of the truth on themselves.   John Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 2:56 am:        First of all, The Pentacostal Religion is a really messed up psycho cult. I mean you people are like CHILDREN OF THE CORN. This religion is a "CULT" if I ever saw one. Where in the Bible does it say exactly that you can't cut your hair, wear makeup, jewelry, and etc.. I mean if you are going to go through all of this much trouble WHY NOT JUST BE AMISH???? IF YOU DON'T LIKE THE WAY THINGS ARE THEN GO AND FORM YOUR OWN COVEN AND PRACTICE YOUR VOODOO SOMEWHERE ELSE. Also, if you cannot cut your hair because the Bible says its is the woman's glory, then how come you people can pull it up really tight into a bun, is this not concealing your hair the same as cutting it???? :-) I think I am right.... Second, this message is going out to all the Pentacostal Skirt Wearing girls. I had to put up working with one of you girls for two years at a place I worked. I got so tired of being preached against, and had to sit there and take it because I felt I had no choice, and I was the Store Manager. I am a gay white male, age 26. I got so tired of my rainbow necklace offending this girl that I had to work with who was a fairly strict Pentacostal. I was only expressing myself in what I wanted to wear. I never said or condemned what she wore everyday, for instance all her dresses that she wore everyday. Is this not your freedom right to express yourself also by wearing what you want. If you can wear your dresses everyday with me totally respecting you, then you should do the same for me and keep your mouth shut.... Anyone that has any comments please post here or you can e-mail me. I created an appropiate temporary e-mail address for you to send your comments if you don't want to post them on here. Thanks, John   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 7:37 am:        Dear John: I don't wan't to disapoint your sincere efforts to communicate fairly, but you may be wasting your energy with these freaks, like we all have been doing until now.   Bro johnny Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 3:05 pm:        Wow john I truly Feel Sorry for you and Pray for you.you have so much Hate in your Heart! your in Darkness and Drakness can,t understand the true Shining light my Beutifull Pentecostal Sisters have within them! You and the whole world makes fun of them becouse they wear long skirts or dresses and don,t cut their hair or wear makeup or jewery! They don,t need these worldely things becouse they are not of this world. they are called out to be different in everyway,thats how us Pentecostal Brothers can tell just who is a True Sister in Christ! just like you wear a rainbow necklace to show everyone your gay and proud of it! My Sisters Dress and keep themselfs according to Bible Holiness Standerds of our Lord Jesus Christ and Proud of it! they dress for Christ not for the world! and they don,t Hate you at all becouse true Christians Can,t Hate! but what ofends them is that rainbow necklace hanging around your neck! becouse your life style is an ABOMINATION onto God according to the Bible! and you wear a rainbow necklace that clearely stands for the ABOMINATION itself and you wear it with Pride!!! this country used to stand for something not to long ago! when us so called freaks wear looked up to bacouse we took a strong stand for God and Country! but now you freaks want the true Children of God to Bow down to your Apostate Wordely System! and now to you people we are the freaks becouse we Truly Stand on Gods Word.the same Word that came in the flesh and died for us all,yes we Pentecostals are truly feeling the Persecution world wide but we count it all JOY!!! but just think of this john when you or yours Persecute us your Persecuting Jesus Christ Himself!does that give you a good feeling john! and yes many of us will have to die for our unshakeable Faith and are being killed right now as we speak in other countrys for the love of the Truth, but they can kill the Truth keepers john but no matter how hard they try they just can,t kill the Truth!!! have a Blessed day john and everyone elese stands for what john stands for! Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 6:01 pm:        Although John's message went to the pentecostal girls, the only response to his comments was posted by some male a freak from that same group. Do you see some pattern in this cultic behavior? I do: Those women are brain-dead, forced to accept the heavy life explanation coming from the patriarch who determines the bevarioural circumstances of the clan. It is very symptomatic that while John speaks for himself, declares for himself and questions on his own experience about the circumstances that he aleguedly had with some lady belonging to the sect, as any response all that he gets is the invariable mantra of the clan's patriarch, while there is no way for that woman -or for any woman- to stand up for herself and state a social response of any kind. Things like this happen against women and children in cults that delimit the liberty of their members on the argument that women are subjected to the men because it is written in the bible. At the same time, there is no way for those women to checkup on the sanity of their representing men because they are forced to live whole lives of suppression both sexually and socially. There is no way for those women to reach out for some form of assistance for liberation because the men are obsessively in charge of every single step they go in their lives. The response of that freak also states that John has the right to feel proud of his rainbow necklace, but he does not give the woman that same right. In his degenerated explanation, he sees everything as an "abomination" while the bible is filled with plenty of examples of women who wore beautiful attires and make up to be attractive to their males. I never read that G-d got mad at any of those women for using make up or jewels or beautiful clothes. The problem here is of psychatric nature: A man who talks like this freak usually has problems of impotence, eyaculation and inferiority. They are obsessively compelled to go to to the world to preach inhibition and fear because that is the reality that they are emotionally existing in. In most cases, when women fall for such extreme compulsive patriarchs, it is because those women on their side do not have enough self assurance, they don't know how to stand up for themselves. It may have started with the way how they were educated in a home where their parents forced them to "obey" without questioning the nature of the orders to follow. Women with not enough self-esteem are often willing to accept emotional perpetrations against their own freedoms and they may not reach out for liberation unless they can receive long therapy to figure out what they really want to do with their lives. In many cases, those poor women do not have the chance to explore their liberty because much too early they have been invaded by unwilling multiple pregnancies that come to overwhelm them and to increase the problems that they have to deal with. Those poor women are in reality victims of psychological passive-agressive manipulation and there is no way to help them because disturbed men like that freak protect their psychoses behind the paragraph of religious freedom. It is a long and repeating condition: We only see the consequences of this vicious circle when eventually some scandals break up and the news inform of isolated cases showing men's perpetration in the name of patriarchi here and there; still it is interesting to note that in our country most of those perpetrators are of christian background, use the bible to substantiate their aberrations and call on the apocalyptic destruction of "the wordly things" while sooner or later they come up with greater acts of abomination performed by their own alegued purity from sin.   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 7:50 pm:        To the one post who said it is a sin to have a tv or a monitor, I have to tell you that whatever you are typing on is as bad as a tv, as far as porn, etc. So, say its a shame we have to depend on tv to babysit our minds and children... To the horrid person who left the meeting to watch the girl drink who was pregnant...probably black...Mercy, Mercy....upon you To the penecostals who think its only oneness or trintiy that will get you there, You are wrong, we only believe and receive Jesus into our lives. To the one above, your spelling and knowledge of psychology is worse than mine.... To Johnny Christian, I like you, but pray for wisdom, To Angela, sorry you were hurt dear, so many hurt, but thats not Jesus, thats man. And, actually it was only that particular church, there are good and evil in every body of believers. To the gay guy, I would have said, I like your necklace , never knowing what it meant, i might have said it anyway, depends on what its made of, rainbows, hmmm.....But, are you just mad at Christians or Pentecostals or yourself for not knowing where to fit....your lady sounds like a zinger...sorry, I dont understand you but love you. To the guy who hollering red neck Bible thumper, who are you, I am an Arkie? I can thump my Bible all day and my neck is not red To the people who oppose hair being up in bun, looks pretty short huh, unless its got that toilet paper look.....been there, done that.....believe me, theres some strong women there , body, soul, and spirit....sexually repressed......not I......Hilarious! Course Johnny Christian, being a man couldnt speak for the women so I will speak for us, we are very much in love with God and our men.......~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ x pentecostal, bible thumpin, Arkie who dont care how woman wear their hair   Bro Johnny Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 8:31 pm:        You Know You are so right. that Sister has no way in this world to take a stand for her self!but if she could i am more than shore she would. My Pentecostal Sisters are just as agressive as us Brothers when it comes to taking a strong stand against sin and Apostate Cancer, but if their not able to do so at the time than they have Millions of us Brothers to take that Stand for them! when you but my Sisters down you put me down and every Brother and Sister on the face of the earth that holds to the love of the Truth down!that Sister was not puting john down becouse he was gay she was ofended by that rainbow necklace which stood for gay pride which is a ABOMINATION onto God! My Sisters don,t need your so called worldely liberation! they have been liberated by Christ Himself against sin and the so called liberated modern day Apostate church! they can walk with their heads high and know in their hearts that their the true daughters of God! they don,t need to cut their God givin hair to look like men, or wear makeup and jewelry to look Beutifull. Becouse they are more than Beutifull their Breath taking! they have the light of Jesus Christ Himself Shinning in there faces!and they cover themselfs out of Respect to God and themselfs,so you worldely people don,t look at them durty! my Sisters don,t tempt their Brothers!they hold to purity way be on your understanding!iv been in Trinity churches and i seen wemen in their with pants on so tight it looked like they jumped off a building just to get into them. makeup all over their faces and ear rings big as base balls on,and wearing more gold than MR T!!! not all the wemen in their but alot of them.is that what you people call purity! its a mockery! i often wonder when you gays marrie one of them,just how you truly feel after the honeymoon is over and you see them the next morning with all that mess running from they eyes and down their faces and then see them for the first time for just who they {REALY} are.man thats scary!!! but when we marrie one of our Sisters we wake up to the same Heaven sent Beutifull Sister we went to bed with the night before! now thats a true Blessing!!! and john said quote {the Pentecostal Religion is a messed up psycho cult} and we are like {the children of the corn}that hits the whole Pentecostal Church at large! and their are many other Oneness or Jesus only movements that hold to our Bible Holiness Standards and Baptism in the name of Jesus Christ ACTS 2:38 and speak in tongues! so its not just us your up against becouse theirs just to many of us to count moving in and around you! just look around you and open up upur eyes! every day of your life and every hour of the day their are many many trinitarians walking or runing out of your trinity Apostate churches and coming into ours and Repenting geting Baptized in the Name of Jesus Christ and geting Filled with the Holy Spirit and speaking in tongues! and you can,t stop it, ain,t that something man. and after a while that same girl that came from one of your Apostate Trinity Churches, will be taking off her makeup,jewerly,pants and start leting their hair grow! and than you,ll be making fun of them even if its your own flesh and blood sister or mother, that must drive you nuts just thinking about don,t it, but you just can,t stop it, now thats the True Power of God!Gaining on ya! moving in and around you!!! taking a true stand for the Gospel of Christ to the World at large!!!!!! have a Blessed day and save your self and join your naborhood UPC today or any other one of our groups!!!!!! Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 8:59 pm:        To the x Pentecostal Sister i want to thank you, i do and will pray for wisdom always! you hit on a good point its not Trinity or Oneness that will get us their! but you being a x Pentecostal Sister you know our Doctrine and just how hard the Trinity church trys in every way to hit us and but us down without even trying to fullely understand us! we are Jesus Christ loving people and just try to live according to the will of God! but becouse our Sisters dress differnt then them they call you freaks and say yous don,t have a mind of your own! you know that we Pentecostal Brothers truly love and Respect you Sisters and its nothing like they say it is,that makes us all look bad when we love our Sisters as Christ Loves the Church and stand by them,you Sisters are the Brothers true Blessing from above, yours in Christ Brither Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 9:04 pm:        Im sorry i thought you said you were a x Pentecostal Sister but you were talking about the x Brother Please Forgive me for the miss understanding Sister Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 9:19 pm:        no, right the first time bro johnny, x this is a very interesting site because i can see all the various situations, having been oneness, having been trinity, upc, baptist, non-denomiton, anywhere my parents happened to live...there are just good and bad in every church, good and bad pastors....I want to bring into this discussion the one thing I have learned as a woman nearing sixty.....the order in which everyone should serve God in order to give of yourself and your loved ones and the world the best. number one: God, first and foremost number two: Family number three: Church When you are in a body of believers that know this you will have a good start.... Actually, they may all believe it, just find the one that does it! There your life you will find and those of yourloved ones.   Bro Johnny Posted on Saturday, October 19, 2002 - 11:18 pm:        Wow God Bless you and i hear what your saying im a single parent since 1996 im raising my son which is eight by myself since he was two,and i try my best to raise him in the will of God he was born and raised in the UPC and he loves it their and he already knows the Doctrine and takes a stand for it!i was born and raised in paterson nj and new york city all my life but now live on oklahoma! becouse of the gangs and drugs their i wanted my son to have a chance in life but i find its the same no matter where you go!i was rasied in a trinty church im Italian American so i know all about the catholic church my mother is catholic and when i was a kid i remember going to the catholic church and puting Holy water on my head and geting on my knees and praying to status and lighting candles! but when i got home my mother would turn off the lights and light candles and get out her wegee board and talk to dead people with her sisters and my uncel! the trinty church may not bow down to the pope but the still hold to their man made Doctrines like Christmas,Easter,Good Frieday and many others! God said learn not the way of the Heathen,never mind going along with it!!! but they do,i go by the Living Word of God Only! the same living Word that became Flesh and dwelt among us! and worned us to hold stead fast to the Doctrine that was first dileverd to us by the Apostles themselfs! and they wear Oneness and Baptized Acts 2:38 and diden,t call our Lord and King Jesus Christ Some second person in the God Head, This Apostate Doctrine diden,t get into the Church intel 325AD by constantine Himself!!! a MAN made Doctrine that turned the whole Christian world upside down!!! God was Manifested in the flesh, jesus Christ said when you see me you see the father, i and my father are One,God rested on the seventh day and Jesus Christ said I AM the lord of the Sabbath,i can go on all night on the Oneness of God but you already know just what i am saying! its not the UPC i Follow its the Word that became flesh and died for me! oh and no i don,t belive that only the UPC will be saved! but i do belive with all my heart that only those who hold SteadFast to Apostolic Doctrine that was first deliverd on to us will enter the Kingdom of God!!! only those who have Repented and are Baptized in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of their sins Filled with His Holy Spirit and thats not no THIRD person in the GodHead! {born again of water and Spirit} Shall enter their!!! and like i said before MARK 16-17 clearely states! the words of Christ Himself that these sings SHALL follow them that believe; {they SHALL speak with new tongues} red letter, don,t take my word for it Christ said it!!! so who ever don,t believe it or is against it! they are flat out calling {Jesus Christ} a liar!!! so their for who ever don,t believe in speaking in tongues than according to Jesus Christ Himself they are not even true believers in the first place they are Apostate now thats the word of God not man, this is not writen to you Sister its to who ever reads this! i pray they come to the love of the truth! God Bless Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 12:17 am:        LOL!!! I just can't read through that much psycho crap. Your blah-blah is so ridiculous, do you really think that you will change a soul thru such crazy postings? Guys you are a bunch of nuts. LOL!!!   Bro Johnny Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 1:12 am:        You know something your right it is nuts going back and fourth but some body has to take a true stand for Truth and the word of Christ!The Trinity calls the Pentecostal Church Doctrine {Religious abuse and a cult or sects} we call it just what it truly Stands for the Word of God,they call Baptism in the Name of Jesus Christ ACTS 2:38 {WORKS} we call it Obeying the Word of Christ. MATTHEW 28:19!!! God says in the book of Revelation i know your WORKS and you will be judged by your WORKS and the book of Jeremiah it Clearely says that Faith without WORKS is DEAD!!! they call speaking in tongues a thing of the past! but Christ says that true believers {Shall} speak in new tongues! MARK 16-17 they call Brother Pauls Teachings on Wemem Holiness Standards abuse and mind control! Paul tells us Clearely that they are not his words but it is commanded by the Lord Himself! they say come as you are and say a little sinners prayer and you are saved! the Word of God Clearely says Repent and be Baptized every one of you in the Name of Jesus Christ For the Remission of your sins!!! they say once Saved always Saved The word of God Says if we go back out and Sin Willingely the Blood of Christ Dosen,t cover that sin! i do not in any way shap or form Hate the Trinity Believing People nor place myself above them in any way! in fact i place myself lower than the lowest on earth! but i do Hate What God Hates and thats Apostate Doctrine! and that is just What the Trinity Church at large Stands for!!! Just how can you love something that fights so hard against the Very Living Word of God! The Word of God is Life but the word of man is Death! choose ye today whome you will sirve!!! Sorry about the spelling im very tired,God Bless Bro Johnny   August Marie Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 1:46 am:        well, well, well! I have to say that there are many preachers out there that are not called by God and they have messed a good bit of you up. I attend the church that God planted me in a year ago. I was unsaved living in fornication and my hope was all in me and what I could achieve in this life time. I knew God because he was talking with me(Just as he called Adam in the Garden after they ate the forbidden fruit). Even though God knew where Adam was he asked, "Adam where are you." I believe that many of us hear God's voice but it is when we give ourselves as a living sacrifice, humble ourselves then he can bring us into the light. I would pray to him when I could remember(I wasn't saved and didn't have a relationship with him like I do now)my prayer was I want to be in your divine will. A year ago I was invited by a neighbor to go to her church. A day before she invited me she had prayed for my 6 day old infant because she was sick with jaundace(excuse spelling).I touched and agreed with her in Jesus name and when my baby and I went to the doctor the next day the numbers on her test went down so much that the doctor made me come back just to make sure that it was right. I wanted to breast feed my baby but couldn't because of the jaundace. It is not comfortable to pump every night for a week after you get out of the hospital with a new baby . Also the 45 minute drive every morning to the hospital for a test that called for the nurse to squeeze blood from my newborn's foot until a tube was full(she still has the indent made by the needle that stuck her every day for a week) Can you see that what this prayer did was a miracle for me. I fed my baby the night after she prayed. My boyfriend of nine years(who I gave up for Christ because he did not want to get married)Asked me what I was doing. I told him that I was believeing in Jesus for a healing. So when I was asked if I wanted to go visit her church my first response was what kind of church is it. Apostolic she said. At that time I was rarley attending an Assembly of God church. I told her sure I would love to go. I went that Sunday morning and it was nice. I love to Praise the Lord...it talks about praising tha Lord in the Bible, with a dance, clapping of the hands, rejoicing. I had no problem with that, as a matter of fact it was mostly a black church(I am white). I had a nice time heard the truth while I was there and went home to relax for the evening. I was laying on my recliner and God said for me to go back. When God tells you to do something he doesn't let up. I got up knowing I never go to evening services but God was telling me so I knew there was something he had for me. I went and that night it seemed at the end of the service everyone was up praising the Lord. They were basically praising him where the alter call would be. God said,"go up!", "your blessing is there". I waited till the last moment and finally I went put my hands up in submission and fellout in the Holy Ghost and spoke in tounges. After I got up (I don't know exactly how long I was down but I do remeber it all) I was then asked if I wanted to be baptized in Jesus' name and I said YES!!! You see this was very important to me because I had wanted to be baptized for a long time, but it seemed that every church I visited only did this once a month. I actually asked to be baptized at one of the churches I went to and they voted on me. Religion doesn't matter! are you in a cult? Well if it doesn't line up with the word of God then someone is wrong. There are so many out there deceiving people and being deceieved is worse than being blind. Blind you can't see, deceieved you think it's a kitten and it's really a rattle snake. Let's be in prayer for one another and believe that God is able. I serve an awesome God who is alive today and has a purpose for me. I do wear a dress because I am a lady, my pastor doesn't force me as a metter of fact I didn't wear one until God spoke to me about setting my self apart. It's great knowing God for myself. Also I wear make up and I can cut my hair....I don't think women should have a bald top fade...we need to be able to tell what you are. I have seen small children confused because a woman dressed so much like a man and even walked like a man that they didn't understand how it could be. Watch out what you get caught up in. If it isn't Bible do away with it. There are many preachers out for self gain ask God to plant you.....Love always, Sister August   Bro johnny Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 2:41 am:        God Bless you this is to the post that said that their aunt took them to a Pentecostal Church and it scared them becouse the were screaming and dancing all around! i can Respect that becouse the first time i went to a Pentecostal Church it realy scared me to i thought they wear all nuts!!! but let me truly tell you something when a person truly truly has the Holy Spirit in them! that Spirit Becomes Alive Within you, and when the Spirit of God Himself enters you, you just can,t stay still its like grabing a hot wire with your foot in a bucket of water! it,s a Fire burning in your Soul,thats why they call it being Baptized by Fire!!!All the water in the world coulden,t put out that Fire if its truly burning in you! you just can,t control the Holy Spirit! it Controls you and takes you where it wants you to be in him! once i went to a Trinity Church with my father,it was a Pentecostal Church! but not a Oneness Pentecostal Church and the man their was explaining about the Church to my father! so i asked him if he had the Holy Spirit and he said yes,so i asked him how dose he know for sure! and he just look at me and said something ill never forget for the rest of my life! he said its not a feeling you just know its their!!! WOW that poor man did not have the Holy Spirit in him nor knew anything of it!!! the Holy Spirit is Jesus Christ Himself living within you! and if you truly have it and your all alone in your house and happen to hear some good Gospel music!you will Clap your hands and stomp your feet and dance and if not you would at least feel like it! you just can,t help it! the Spirit got to move in you and take control if not then that person is Spiritely dead the sad thing is many many people truly believe they have the Holy Spirit but they are like that man Spiritely Dead! we better make sure we have the True Holy Spirit within us our we can never enter the Kingdom of God without it!!! the Holy Spirit is our seal of Salvation and it Witnesses to our Spirit! and don,t every let anyone tell you differnt! God Bless you Bro Johnny ps again sorry for the spelling   Bro Johnny Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 3:04 am:        Wow that was truly Beutifull Sister August Marie May Our Lord and King Jesus Christ truly Bless you and yours With all the love Health and Happyness only he can give! as well as the rest of you in here!!! i love you all no matter what our differances are!!! even you {john} Sorry for the Spelling Good Night Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 5:00 pm:        Thought Reform Dr. Robert J. Lifton's Criteria for Thought Reform Any ideology -- that is, any set of emotionally-charged convictions about man and his relationship to the natural or supernatural world -- may be carried by its adherents in a totalistic direction. But this is most likely to occur with those ideologies which are most sweeping in their content and most ambitious or messianic in their claim, whether a religious or political organization. And where totalism exists, a religion, or a political movement becomes little more than an exclusive cult. Here you will find a set of criteria, eight psychological themes against which any environment may be judged. In combination, they create an atmosphere which may temporarily energize or exhilarate, but which at the same time pose the gravest of human threats. (a brief outline) 1. MILIEU CONTROL The most basic feature is the control of human communication within an environment If the control is extremely intense, it becomes internalized control -- an attempt to manage an individual's inner communication Control over all a person sees, hears, reads, writes (information control) creates conflicts in respect to individual autonomy Groups express this in several ways: Group process, isolation from other people, psychological pressure, geographical distance or unavailable transportation, sometimes physical pressure Often a sequence of events, such as seminars, lectures, group encounters, which become increasingly intense and increasingly isolated, making it extremely difficult-- both physically and psychologically--for one to leave Sets up a sense of antagonism with the outside world; it's "us against them" Closely connected to the process of individual change (of personality) 2. MYSTICAL MANIPULATION (Planned spontaneity) Extensive personal manipulation Seeks to promote specific patterns of behavior and emotion in such a way that it appears to have arisen spontaneously from within the environment, while it actually has been orchestrated Totalist leaders claim to be agents chosen by God, history, or some supernatural force, to carry out the mystical imperative The "principles" (God-centered or otherwise) can be put forcibly and claimed exclusively, so that the cult and its beliefs become the only true path to salvation (or enlightenment) The individual then develops the psychology of the pawn, and participates actively in the manipulation of others The leader who becomes the center of the mystical manipulation (or the person in whose name it is done) can be sometimes more real than an abstract god and therefore attractive to cult members Legitimizes the deception used to recruit new members and/or raise funds, and the deception used on the "outside world" 3. THE DEMAND FOR PURITY The world becomes sharply divided into the pure and the impure, the absolutely good (the group/ideology) and the absolutely evil (everything outside the group) One must continually change or conform to the group "norm" Tendencies towards guilt and shame are used as emotional levers for the group's controlling and manipulative influences Once a person has experienced the totalist polarization of good/evil (black/white thinking), he has great difficulty in regaining a more balanced inner sensitivity to the complexities of human morality The radical separation of pure/impure is both within the environment (the group) and the individual Ties in with the process of confession -- one must confess when one is not conforming 4. CONFESSION Cultic confession is carried beyond its ordinary religious, legal and therapeutic expressions to the point of becoming a cult in itself Sessions in which one confesses to one's sin are accompanied by patterns of criticism and self-criticism, generally transpiring within small groups with an active and dynamic thrust toward personal change Is an act of symbolic self-surrender Makes it virtually impossible to attain a reasonable balance between worth and humility A person confessing to various sins of pre-cultic existence can both believe in those sins and be covering over other ideas and feelings that s/he is either unaware of or reluctant to discuss Often a person will confess to lesser sins while holding on to other secrets (often criticisms/questions/doubts about the group/leaders that may cause them not to advance to a leadership position) "The more I accuse myself, the more I have a right to judge you" 5. SACRED SCIENCE The totalist milieu maintains an aura of sacredness around its basic doctrine or ideology, holding it as an ultimate moral vision for the ordering of human existence Questioning or criticizing those basic assumptions is prohibited A reverence is demanded for the ideology/doctrine, the originators of the ideology/doctrine, the present bearers of the ideology/doctrine Offers considerable security to young people because it greatly simplifies the world and answers a contemporary need to combine a sacred set of dogmatic principles with a claim to a science embodying the truth about human behavior and human psychology 6. LOADING THE LANGUAGE The language of the totalist environment is characterized by the thought-terminating cliche (thought-stoppers) Repetitiously centered on all-encompassing jargon "The language of non-thought" Words are given new meanings -- the outside world does not use the words or phrases in the same way -- it becomes a "group" word or phrase 7. DOCTRINE OVER PERSON Every issue in one's life can be reduced to a single set of principles that have an inner coherence to the point that one can claim the experience of truth and feel it The pattern of doctrine over person occurs when there is a conflict between what one feels oneself experiencing and what the doctrine or ideology says one should experience If one questions the beliefs of the group or the leaders of the group, one is made to feel that there is something inherently wrong with them to even question -- it is always "turned around" on them and the questioner/criticizer is questioned rather than the questions answered directly The underlying assumption is that doctrine/ideology is ultimately more valid, true and real than any aspect of actual human character or human experience and one must subject one's experience to that "truth" The experience of contradiction can be immediately associated with guilt One is made to feel that doubts are reflections of one's own evil When doubt arises, conflicts become intense 8. DISPENSING OF EXISTENCE Since the group has an absolute or totalist vision of truth, those who are not in the group are bound up in evil, are not enlightened, are not saved, and do not have the right to exist "Being verses nothingness" Impediments to legitimate being must be pushed away or destroyed One outside the group may always receive their right of existence by joining the group Fear manipulation -- if one leaves this group, one leaves God or loses their transformation, for something bad will happen to them The group is the "elite", outsiders are "of the world", "evil", "unenlightened", etc. Excerpted from: Thought Reform And The Psychology of Totalism, Chapter 22, (Chapel Hill, 1989) & The Future of Immortality, Chapter 155 (New York 1987). myownmind.com   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 11:20 pm:        Bro Johnny, I have tried to post several times stating just why you were wrong. I had the words perfect. Each time I would accidently hit my back button and erase everything I wrote. So let me say this. I think you are a sincere person trying to live your life for God. I still don't agree with everything you say but if I try to explain why, I know something will happen to erase it. So that's all I have to say. God bless.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, October 20, 2002 - 11:42 pm:        To the person who posted with the six little smiley faces. Are you J.P.? You sure sound like him. But then again he is normally more mature and serious than you are.   Angela Posted on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 12:14 pm:        Bro Johnny: Why is it that you people fight so hard to defend your religion, instead of Jesus? I've never understood the Pentecostal/Apostolic's deal with thinking they're the only ones right.. You people always throw that whole "Come out from among them and be seperate" verse at me. And my only question is Why would someone who has the Holy ghost inside them, have to dress up their temples on the outside to show Him. Shouldn't your spirit, heart, actions and attitude show Jesus? Being seperate isn't about outward appearance. Anyone could put on a dress, put their hair in a knot and look like one of you, and no one would ever know. But it takes someone filled with Jesus Christ to be set apart by their actions, something that doesn't come from the outside, but the inside. The Bible says EVERYONE who calls upon the name of Jesus shall be saved. Which means that there will be some Baptists, Pentecostals, Methodist's, Non Denominational's and any other person who calls on HIS name. It's not about being in a relgious group, it's about being in God's family. I hate to break it to you, but He loves everyone, and He doesn't look at the outside, He sees the heart; yours and mine. And if it's washed in His blood, then it doesn't matter if you're a Pentecostal like you, or Inter-Denominational, like me. Jesus is the Lord, and HE accepts all who call on his name, not just Apostolics. In His Grip Angela   Anonymous Posted on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 4:21 pm:        Brother Johnny do you really think only people in pentecostal churches are going to be saved? Or that you have to speak in tongues to be saved? No offense but that is not what my bible says. Romans 10:9-10 states That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shall be saved. For with the heart man believeth unto righteousness and with the mouth confession is made unto salvation. THAT is what is needed to be saved. Don't say a person is lost because they don't have the same gifts as you do. God does not love them any less. They will inherit enternity along with you. And I also think one should be wary of these 'so called gifts" Not all supernatural manifestations come from God. In other words signs and wonders should not impress us. The enemy can produce them also. So don't say because "they" don't worship like we do "they" won't be saved. Only God knows a person's heart. You sound like Godly man but I think you have some of this wrong. You do not have to speak in tongues or "be slayed in the spirit" to be saved. God bless.   Brian Posted on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 6:36 pm:        Hey, John. I agree to an extent. I'm not going to preach to anyone b/c NOONE has the right. I will say this. Women are supposed to walk beside the men not behind them. 2 as 1 not 1/34 and 1/4. Women do not have a PLACE nor are they puppets. They have freewill just like all of humanity. Make choices, good or bad, and suffer the consequences if any. I don't believe vanity is a sin UNLESS it supersedes all else. If it is a sin, who do preachers wear suits, gold watches, and such? And all that donation money seems to go to pay for his/her Mercedes or another room addition for the house. From what I SEE and HEAR, the men overrule the women, who are given a limited education; i.e. Cooking, cleaning, having babies(only to precreate, when it is also an act of true love),and other meaningless acts that hinder their lives. "God gave unto man freewill." As for being gay, how DARE anyone bash it when the Almight, by whichever name you call him, creating EVERYTHING, including gayness. An incident happened at my work when a mother and daughter came in to shop. They tried to, help us all, CONVERT on of my friends and co-workers. We don't allow ANYONE to sollicit in the store. If you must do it not on our property, and I almost had them thrown out, along with some people trying to sell insurance. Another thing if material possesions are not part of your lifestyle then what are you doing on a computer? I have my own personal relationship with whom I coniser my creator. Allah, Buddah, Tao-Zen, or whatever. I do not go TO church. 1. Where does it say I HAVE to go to a building to believe? 2. All these posts are opinions and not judgements. These women should be allowed to do thing they want, but also along the guidelines to what they believe am I right? If the Bible or book you read says, "Thou female shalt, not have wisdom, freedom, or choices and be a slave of the males, why are there so many highly religous females? Bet you there are more gay people at your church than you know. Here's a last thought for you. You'd be surprised at who is actually in heaven and who isn't going.   Bro Johnny Posted on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 10:43 pm:        Hi first of all as i said in my other post ! no i do not Believe in any way that the UPC is the only Church that is going to be saved! no disrespect but please go back and read just what i wrote so we will have no missunderstanding! becouse i never said that at all what i did say was the Trinity is a man made Doctrine!!!!!!! Trinitarans conveniently ignore that prior to the council of Nicaea they have no Doctrine to defend becouse their was no such thing as a Trinity intel the year 325AD when their true God Constantine A Pagag Sun god Worshiper Forced this UnGodely Doctring on the Known Christian world!!! and if you call yourself true Christians you would surely Study these things for your selfs wouldent you?????? or do you worship a man made Doctrine you can never ever explain!!! and except it as truth and call it a Mystery! well the Mystery is it was never their to Start with!The Bible tells us so Clearely their is only ONE GOD!!! not {God the Father} {God the Son} And {God the Holy Spitit}WOW!!! and Not {God is the first person in the GodHead} and Jesus Christ is the Second preson in the GodHead} and The Holy Spirit is the Third Person in the God Head!!! Just how in Hell can you people try to explain this to someone without saying theirs three seperate Gods!!! no matter how you cut the cake its still a man made doctrine from hell brought in by the catholic church!!! and you that said all you get is Pentecostals Preaching to you to come out from among them!!! we diden,t say it GOD Commamed it! so if you don,t like it than you are going aganist the very commandment of God! He Commamed us to come out from Among them! and be ye Seperate and touch not the unclean thing and i will recive you!!! just what is it here you DON,T UNDERSTAND??? do you honestely thing these are just man made Words for you to take as a joke! and to put down Pentecostals or anyone for that matter For Obeying This Commandment of God Himself! just becouse you flat out refuse to Obey it! Don,t mock Gods Children God will not Be mocked!!! To begin with,it should be noted that the term legalism or legalistic is not found in the Bible, Its moral synonyms as listed in the dictionary are found in the Bible; Honorable,chaste,pure,virtuous,just,honest and righteous. in Fact, they are mentioned over 500 times. Could it be that use of the word legalistic is an attempt to avoid dealing with these important Biblical issues or is it just me!!! and you who say "God give unto man free will" and as far as being gay How {DARE}anyone bash it when the almight, by whichevery name you call him, creating EVERTHING,including gayness, "these are your own words Right" Can i ask you something ?????? ARE YOU RETARED OR SOMETHING?????? i think you got your RAIN BOW NECKLACE on way to tight and its stoping the blood flow to your brain!!! WOW and you people call me a FREAK thats a good one!!! im finished here im out Bro johnny   Brian Posted on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 10:59 pm:        BROJOHNNY I'm back. First, I am not gay and am married to very devout Catholic woman. I have friends who are gay; the Lord created EVERYTHING including being gay. It is not a CHOICE. Gay people feel attraction toward the same sex, just like straight feel toward the opposite sex. The same "butterfly feelings" we get when we are attracted to another person, is the same for them. They don't wake up one day and think, "I'll be gay this week, and bisexual next." You have misread me. If God created EVERYTHING, he made angels, serpent, pain, suffering, gayness, murder,etc. Man commits many of those acts of his FREEWILL, but without FW it couldn't happen. God wants us to witness to people right? That's his way of working through us, to keep people with him. Anger should not be a part of this, and you my friend, have obviously crossed it. Another thing, I've worked with Mentally Handicapped people, and he allows that?!? They don't have the right functions, and you call them RETARDED. They were BORN that way, so there's nothing they could've done to be "awarded" that status. At least we both spoke our feelings, but I for one did not call you anything or lose my temper. I've got a whole congregation that COULD back me up. I laughed because you totally misunderstood where I was coming from. If you'd like to speak with me personally and adult-like about it let me know.   Bro Johnny Posted on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 11:22 pm:        Your right i agree with you when it comes to gay people not waking up one day and saying hey ill be gay this week! i can understand that some of them are born that way! but it is in no way natural or of God! God also made the devil and gave him a free will but look what happend to him! yes he made us with a free will to sirve him or the devil its our choice {Heaven or Hell} {Life or Death} theirs no inbetween or {two sides of the fance},God did NOT make Man for Man or Women For Women! For this Reason becouse they burned one for the other God Said he turned them over to a reprobate mind so they will all be DAMMED! you don,t believe me open the Bible and Read it for yourseld!im not saying that God Hates them at all but he Hates the act! but if they Repent get Baptized and receive the Holy Spirit they can and will be Deliverd from that Deamon!!! God Bless you Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Monday, October 21, 2002 - 11:32 pm:        oh and Please understand that i have a eight year old son that has mentel problems! that im raising by myself so i wasen,t saying that in generl i was calling you retared becouse of your post, and i Repent for that!!! please forgive me i should have never done that im sorry Bro Johnny   Brian Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 12:14 am:        BJ. I agree with the devil part, but so far I haven't seen HARD evidence of it. How can someone be gay, still believe and not go to hell? I've been asked if it's a demon that's doing it, then how is he at fault? He/she is in a lose/lose situation. I do no judge my friends or ridicule them. They know my standing on beliefs and they have theirs. They go to church, read the B, and are more firm believers than a lot I know. And they are GAY. That's not fair to them. Religeon is a very complex and difficult thing. I still don't think that the women should be put in their place, like that. If all this make-up and stuff could attract someone who would make them unfaithful, that person should already be strong enough to resist that. No matter how muscled he is, or how sexy and big boobed she may be.   Bro Johnny Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 2:15 am:        you know i grew up with alot of gay people both men and wemen,and found that their very good hearted people that would do anything for you! i mean give you the shirt off their back.and can,t help the way they are! i agree with that! but once they get into a true Church not only the UPC but a true Bible believing church that truly stands on the word of God Only! and not man! they will be tought it is wrong! and that it is a Deamon that must be cast out of them in order to be deliverd fullely and then that person man or women can live a normal life and raise a family in Christ! but they must want to be delived and have Faith! but the Church today excepts anything and everything! and tells man just what they wants to hear! thats why the Bible says in the last days they will not be able to indure sound Doctrine they will heap themself to teachers having itching ears and will turn from the Truth and Believe the lie!!! it is the devils job to take every Soul on the Face of the earth with him stright into HELL he knows his time is short!!! thats why the Pope is pushing so hard for a One World Religion and Bush is pushing so hard to bring in the New World Order NWO!!! becouse they go hand and hand togather! whosoever don,t go along both of them will be Persecution thron in prison beaten and killed for their Witness of Jesus Christ and his Truth of the Gospel! thats why he said if a man finds his life he shall lose it but if he loses his life for my Names sake he shall find it!!! WOW thats Powerfull Ain,t it, well sorry for the spelling im tired, God Bless Good Night Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 4:47 am:        Bro Johnny I am the post that stated you don't have to speak in tongues to be saved. I tried to be polite and I see how you answered. You really should try and control your temper. Nothing was said that was so bad you had to react that way. Not from me or anyone else. You may not agree with what's being said but don't resort to name calling and insults please.   Bro Johnny Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 10:50 am:        im sorry if i offend you or anyone elese in here but not sorry for standing up for Truth! this message board was made to bash Pentecostals was it not,i see a few but not many other UPC members in here standing up for Biblical Truth and if they are in here then their leting us few take all the weight! but thats ok i can handel it i will not bow to this Worlds Apostate System nor have anything to do with it! and iv tryed to truly ancer everything with True Biblical Sound Doctrine! you have to admite that! what every i say can be backed up by the Word of God not man! i truly believe in taking a strong Stand for sound Doctrine and the Word of God! this is something that God Commanded and don,t play with! you see people have been set up by this new age Church today to Truly Believe that all you have to do is say some little sinners prayer and except Jesus christ into your heart as your Personal Lord and Saviour and your saved!!! thats the bigest lie stright out of Hell the so called church has every told! the Bible makes it so very clear that theirs so much more to it! but people today don,t want to hear that at all! they want a nightclub church where they can come as they want and do as they please well it don,t work like that at all!!! God Said you Must be Born again of water and of Spirit in order to enter the Kingdom of God! we must be Baptized in his Name for the Remission of sins recive the holy Spirit and Come out from among them live a clean separate life in Christ Jesus! NOTICE he said to them that recived him he gave them Power to {BECOME SONS OF GOD}he diden,t say they became sons of God!!! these are not mearely words to be playing games with! Jesus Christ said if you love me you will keep my commandments or sayings! Do you love Him??? we must pick up our own cross daily and truely Suffer to follow him! thats why people back up and give up and quite and join Apostate Night Club Come as you are churches where the Bible is watered down to fit your comfort zone! and Sound Doctrine realy doesen,t matter anymore and good old fashion Hell Fire and Brim Stone Preaching that keepet people in line is a thing of the past!!! you say that nothing was said here that was so bad for me to react the way i did! well lets back up here and see just what has been going on here eaither i myself or the Pentecoustal Church at large so far has been called {BAD PEOPLE THOSE PENTECOSTALS GOOD RIDDANCE}{some screw ball called our Lord Jesus Christ A junkie and don,t think we should follow him!} {some other nut said Jesus wore skirts while he was on earth!} {some rainbow necklace wearing gay guy says {First of all the Pentecostal religion is a realy messed up psycho cult}{i mean you people are like CHILDERN OF THE CORN} {this religion is a"CULT"if i every saw one} {oh and why not just be AMISE and go prarctice their voodoo!!!} and some rasest Freak said that {if a girl from the UPC was pregnet it had to be from a Black guy!!!}real nice!!! well thats not all of it but you get the idea right??? but your right i do need to control my temper thats one of my down falls! but believe me its not easy when your up against all this all the time no matter where you go and this is nothing comprired to what the whole world at large thinks of us!!! right now as we speak one of my Brothers or Sisters are being Persecuted or even killed in some other country think about it for just what we Believe ain,t that something!!! God Bless you Bro Johnny   Brian Posted on Tuesday, October 22, 2002 - 11:42 pm:        Hey. Anyone try reading the "Left Behind" series? Should check it out. The authors dug into some religious history to write this fictional novel and could possibly "slap" you into reality about this whole "organized" religeon and how we all are piting one is better than the other. Two Penocostal(hope I spelt that right) people I do know, and do not barage me with their views came into day and I haven't seen them in awhile. She even shares some of the same views I do. Whatever country, language, I believe if you believe, no matter what image He takes, or by what name you call him. Unless Satan worshipers, cults, and others. It points out that the One Religeon prob won't be accepted by the world. Just like I feel all the turban wrapped women should throw all that crap off and not be owned by all those Quicki-Mart husbands. One world government won't work either.   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 5:15 am:        The series Left Behind is entertaining but not completely biblical. And as far as a one world governemnt I agree in a way that in most of history it would not work. But the enemy (satan) is slowing preparing the world to accept this change. One world goverment, one world religeous system, one world economic system. This is part of bible prophecy concerning the last days. It really will come about. Just watch how some are pushing for this to happen. Don't be fooled by it. It is one of satan's lies. He wants this one world goverment to happen. So when you hear Bush speak of One World Government or anyone else, just know it is to be.   Bro johnny Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 1:43 pm:        The New World Order and One World Religion is closing in on us very Fast! Theirs just no stoping it all we can do is Pray to the Lord for Wisdom and understanding that we may be able to undure it! for he who undures tel the End the same Shall be Saved! the Worst thing that can happen is for us to walk into it Blindely and unprepared! its Truly Time for us to get our house in Order and Deepely Study up on it and Prepare ourselfs and our loved ones for it! The Big Problem is that the Churches are not Preaching on just whats about to come down on all of us! but if we Truly love Christ theirs nothing to Fear but Fear itself! we are our own worst Enemy he lives on Fears our minds are the devils playgrand!i know i sound angery in my post but Please Pray for me to be deliverd from that anger! i am still in this Flesh which Truly is my worst Enemy! but with your prayers and Gods help ill be able to overcome it before its to late! i love each and every Soul on the face of this earth and i have no right to judge you or anyone for that matter!but i am just get scared when i see a whole dieing lost world being sucked stright into Hell inclouding my own Faimily! and Biblical Sound Doctrine is the only thing thats going to get us up their! all im asking is for all of us to realy study just where all these man made Doctrines came from and just how dangerus they Truly are to our Salvation, theirs a book i think every professing Christian should read! its nothing to do with Pentecostals! but it will surely open up your eyes to man made Doctrines its called {Too Long in the sun} and the website is {www.toolong.com} Please in the Name above all Names Jesus Christ! look it up! and let me know just what you think ok!!! HEY it Can,t hurt Right? God Bless all of you Bro Johnny ps im praying for you john i love you man!!!   Brian Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 5:30 pm:        If we are close to the start of the Tribulation, we should be getting ready for the inevitable. Preparing everyone in case of those who will be left for a purpose, and for what is to come. Noone will know who or exactly when they will be taken. I know I, and other people will not go as much as I believe I should and we should be making amends. The Penecostals view it differenly and should be on our side, not against everyone.   Bro Johnny Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 6:05 pm:        i am on your side Brian belive me im not against you or anyone for that matter! what i am against and every True Christian should be Against is Apostasy and im Sure we can all agree on that!Apostasy is the Great Falling Away from the True Church! and im not talking about the Pentecostal Church im talk about the Church Jesus Christ died for! you and me are the True Church! when he comes back He ain,t coming back for no buildings he,s coming back for His Church His Bride me and you without spot or wrinkel my Brother! thats way we must hold SteadFast to Apostolic Doctrine the Doctrine that was First deliverd onto us by the Apostles themselfs!!! not mans!!! Thats just what the Blble says and Commands Please Check out that Web Site i sent ok that will give you an idea of just what im talking about ok Brother God Bless you in Jesus Name Bro Johnny ps not only you Brian but all of us need to make a true amends and get our house in order or none of us will go Believe me!!!   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 10:23 pm:        Bro Johnny you are right when God comes back it won't be for pentecostals, baptists, methodists etc. He didn't say anything in his word about denominations. He is coming back for HIS CHURCH. Apostasy can creep into any denomination. This is what we should look out for. YOu will know something is false only if you already know the truth. Read, read, read the bible and pray for wisdom to understand. This is his word. He gave it to us so that we may know his will. There are many people in the process of planning this one world religious, government and economic system. Pray, pray more people will be able to see through this plan of Satan's. God bless you   Bro Johnny Posted on Wednesday, October 23, 2002 - 11:31 pm:        Your so Right My Brother or Sister im sorry i Don,t know which one you may be! May God Bless You and yours Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 12:52 am:        I am your sister in Christ.   Bro Johnny Posted on Thursday, October 24, 2002 - 1:52 am:        Well My Sister your 100% right their is no denomination,race,creed or color! their is only True Faith and Trust in our Lord Jesus Christ! and we must learn to Trust Him with All our Minds Bodys Hearts and Souls! and obey the Gospel Fullely! it don,t matter what we think or what Pastor so and so Preaches on sunday morning! if it don,t line up with the Word of God its High Time to pack up and get out of that Church! some times we in the flesh don,t want to hear the truth,becouse than we would have to make some changes in our lives! but thats what makes us differnt you know! to be true and Faithfull to the Lord is all that matters! WOW Brother Paul sure had to walk alone, its realy something to think about! Jesus Christ said our worst enemys would be them of our own household!and our own children will turn us over onto death! God never said it was going to be easy!!! Good night and God Bless you my Sister Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 9:40 am:        I am impressed by the humble spirit of certain preachers in this list. So much, that i started attending a Pentecostal Church in my area. I found that the services are beautiful and the people are only trying to live in according to the word of the Bible. I am praying more often and i am reading the Bible more often, now i have an inner world of love that fills my days with hope and faith. Thank you, Bro. Johnny for your messages. To John, i am sorry that you were treated that way by someone who said she was a Pentecostal. It's hard to imagine that someone would respond so unpolite to another person. I haven't received any of such treatment from the people at church. I humbly offer you my impressions about your postings here: Perhaps the reason why your relation to that lady work mate collapsed so badly could have been that you could not accept her as a woman who didn't try to show pride in her womanhood, because you are a man who lives in homosexuality and you are very open and public about your habits. The fact that such habits are more accepted by the public now than they were fifty years ago is not a justification for its sinfulness. Unfortunately, we live in a world where the devil is certainly moving peoples minds to believe that everything is acceptable and permissible and this is how society contiues to develop to the terrible level of moral bankrupcy that is leading all our institutions to collapse. Perhaps the only remedy to that is indeed a society of very conservative followers of the original and unchanged word of the Father, who was and is and will be the same now and forever. Amen.   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 4:57 pm:        Amen to the above post. Unfortunately society has changed for the worse. People are more selfish, thinking of themselves first. Constantly thinking about money and how they can get more, willing to do anything to get it is another thing that a occurs. Morality are almost non existant. Homosexuals have always existed but it seems much more prevalent now. Maybe because now people are not trying to hide it. I am not condemning gay people. God never stopped loving them, only the sin. Sin is sin. Adultery,incest,fornication etc. etc is very common also. People are also just plain meaner than years ago. There is an increase in murders, rapes, including stabbings,shootings etc, and every other sin you can imagine. People don't seem to respect the life of a person anymore than they would a bug. Violence in and out of the home is the norm in many people's lives. Some folks have started to worship themselves, thinking themselves are gods. Giving no regard to the God of the universe but listening to doctrines of devils. This is also very common. People are searching not only in themselves but in the occult and every unGodly thing that can be imagined. Crytals, ouiji boards, meditation, channeling, spirit guides, worshiping idols. praying to the "god within". These detestable things are being done everyday. People are searching because they know there is something else outside of themselves but because they are not asking God, their search leads them into satan's hands. The bible itself states how the world will in the time just before the Lord's coming. 2 Timothy 3:1-5,7 This they know also that in the last days perilous times shall come. For men shall be lovers of their own selves, covetous, boasters, proud,blasphemers, disobiedient to parents, unthankful, unholy. Without natural affection, truce breakers, false accusers,incontient, fierce, despisers of those that do good. Traitors, high minded,lovers of pleasures more than lovers of God. Having a form of godliness, but denying the power there of: from such turn away. Ever learning and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth. These things are going to happen. So what we can do is pray and ask God to give us the strength to endure. God bless all my brothrs and sisters in Christ.   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, October 26, 2002 - 5:25 pm:        Amen and Glory and Wistom and Thanksgiving and Honor and Power and Love, belong to our God forever and ever. The tendency of the world is to deny that God exists, they also wish to deny the reality of evil. They believe that if they assert that there is no evil, they won't be seen as evil doers. The morality of society is decaying in the same proportion as the immorality of humanity increases. But, this story is not new as you all know. The Holy Bible tells of social orders that were terminated by God because there was no other way to cleanse the immorality of the people in those societies. Everywhere on our planet the evil doers are calling for the vindication of sin and its abominable consequences. but, the Bible tells us that God was always the same and He does not sleep. There is a refuge for the pure souls seeking to obtain from His endless wisdom. In his kingdom they are not marrying or giving each other in marriage, but they are pure like the angels are pure. Homosexuality is not an evil unless an act is committed against God and against his creation. But, about this we don't have to talk too much, because nobody is intending to hurt anyone by declaring the Word that never changed in the course of millenia. Blessed be His name. The Father of All is merciful and forgiving of sin when repentance comes from the heart.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 3:19 am:        Bro Johnny where are you? There are some truths being spoken here. I'm sure you would agree.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 8:07 am:        My friend, these are not some truths but there is only the Truth and that only Truth is so overwhelmingly present that our limited understanding makes us think that there are several truths all around. That is the beginning of confusion and leads men's minds astray. There is only one Truth as there is only one light as there is only one Love. The other concepts are lies infiltrated by the devil to soften your heart to the understanding of sin and evil. Some would have wanted to keep this list as a poisoning virtual address where people could go to denounce the falsity of sects and creeds. But look at the truth that is being spoken and how that truth is filling this virtual space with the never ending light of understanding and compassion. The truth spoken here is like a sunbean that breaks into the darkness. That sunbeam can be a part of the whole light but it is still the same nature and substance of the original light. If we follow the sunbeam, we end up in the most illuminating spectacle of light ever imagined by our limited understanding when we were still wandering in the darkness, believing that fata morgana was light, until the sunbeam entered the darkness through the tiny hole of our humble devotion. Why does it happen this way? Because the Truth is stronger than Lies. Because a true adoration of God is stronger than following a sect or a cult. Because the Word has never changed and because he is the Alfa and the Omega. He was there always and will never change. God is our refuge from Generation to Generation and nothing can take from us this heritage. Selah!   Bro Johnny Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 10:08 am:        God Bless you im sorry i haven,t ancered in the past few days iv been real sick with some kind of flu or something! but yes i do agree theirs some good points here! except for saying homosexuality is not an evil unless an act is committed against God! im sorry but i don,t understand that at all!!! thats like saying its ok to keep poison in your house as long as you don,t drink it you,ll be fine!!! i understand that God dose not hate the homosexual but he dose hate the act! this we can all agree on! but Why keep the Poison in our house in the first place! if sooner or later the Enemy of our Soul is going to temped us with it anyway! Yours in Christ Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, October 27, 2002 - 5:34 pm:        Well, there is a biological reason for homosexuality in some cases. For example, a high level of masculine hormones in the system can develop male characteristics in a woman, that are rather defined as masculine. You have seen women who grow a beard. In certain cases, even her voie may sound somehow masculine because of the same reason. Do you think those women are intentionally doing that? Well, the Bible teaches me that a woman can be dysfunctionally "masculine" because of chemical reasons and still be expected to live as a woman in front of the eyes of God. She is simply challenged with a chemical dysfunction but she is a woman in front of God. There is no sin in that. The Bible teaches me that if the woman suffering from such a problem would then go to have a sexual intercourse with another woman, she would commit a sin. I think that your expressions, Brother Johnny, are sometimes way out there, with no vestige of compassion and no sign of the true love in Christ. It's hard to imagine Christ talking the way you do about sin. Your mouth knows no humility. That's not the way Jesus would speak to others. I pray that you will continue to see clarity around you and that your sense of being right will not lead you to condemn others, for you are the only one who will be condemned if acting like that. It is not enough to count your blessings, it is necessary to humble your tongue, because there is not one without sin, except the Lamb.   Anonymous Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 4:10 am:        God bless you Brother Johnny. I know what you are trying to say but listen. Some people are gay but they don't want to be and struggle over this. I knew a man like this. He hated the fact he was gay. His solution to this was to not have sex with men. If this man humbled himself before God, asked forgiveness, confessed Jesus was Lord and excepted him as his Savior he would be saved. And he would still be gay. He would just choose not to feed that part of himself. So although without exception the act is sin, the person can still be saved. I don't know how many people God has changed from this but I do know God loves gay people very much. I don't want to fight with you I just think anyone can be saved if they accept Christ. Hope you feel better soon.   Anonymous Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 4:37 am:        Sorry I spelled accepted wrong.   Bro Johnny Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 10:16 am:        God Bless you to and your right God dose love the gay people so much! and alot of them don,t want to be that way and thats heart breaking! it must be so very hard to struggle with something like that everyday of their life!listen im not gay but i am human and a single parent since 1996!thats when my wife walked out on me and my two children! my daughter was only eight at the time and my son Emmanuel was only two years old,i backslided the first year she left,and fell into sexuel sin with one girl intel 1997! i knew it was wrong and felt so guilty i had to just end it once and for all! so i did in 1997! i through her out and promissed God i would never ever have sex with another women for as long as i live, unless he Himself sent me a True Christian Wife of His choice! well let me ask you something! just becouse my wife cheated on me and walked out on me and my kids did that make it right for me to go out and fall into sexuel sin! or was my sexuel sin any less ofenceive to God than homosexuel sex sin! i truly don,t think so becouse sin is sin!!! and my sin is in no way better than yours! and i stuggle with the lust of the eyes and the lust of the flesh everyday of my life! but just like AA i just got to take it one day at a time and stay in prayer 24-7 for deliverance of these feelings! only Christ can deliver us from us,but we have to fullely trust in him with strong faith you know! well i truly Thank God i can look back now and be able to say i haven,t touched a women in at least Five years!!! but thats only becouse God Himself held me up,i coulden,t have possiable done it by myself!But Greater is He that is in me,then he that is in the world!!! we all need to fall on our faces daily and Cry out to Jesus Christ to Hold us up and to lead us into his perfect Will for us! he Promissed us he would never leave or forsake us! so we need to truly stand on his Word and see satan for just what he realy is.i liar.just a big liar and nothing more! please forgive me for me spelling,God Bless you Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 4:15 pm:        sorry! so you see without the homosexuel truly seeking deliverance from the Lord he or she will still burn in lust one for the other weather they act on it or not! just like i will still burn in lust for a women intel God either Delivers me from it or sends me a wife of his choice! thats why Paul said it is better to marrie than to burn in lust! im sure none of us weather we be homosexuel or stright, that confess to love the Lord Jesus Christ want these feelings of lust, knowing their against God! but as long as were in this flesh its a true battle,the Spirit against the Flesh and the Flesh against the Spirit!tel we take our last breath the Enemy of our Soul will make sure of that!!! Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Monday, October 28, 2002 - 9:57 pm:        Alright Brother Johnny I can agree with that. When you put it that way and compare yourself with someone else, I see you understand what I was trying to say. Anyone of us can sin and anyone of us can accept Christ and be saved. We are all fighting against the flesh not just sexual sins but other sins as well. It is a hard fight but we can win. Christ said I will never leave you or forsake you. When you feel weak call out to him, he hears you. Then praise his name and thank him for your victory. He is so good. We have all sinned, I have to say a prayer each time I say or think something wrong. But I know I am forgiven because the bible says he forgives if you come with a humble heart. Amazing Grace is my favorite song. Amazing grace, how sweet the sound that saved a wretch like me. I once was lost but now I'm found, was blind but now I see. Bro Johnny remember we are not what we want to be, and we are not what we should be, but thank God, we are not what we use to be. Your sister in Christ.   Anonymous Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 6:45 am:        Johnny, sometimes you are like a nuts speaking some truth. That happens a lot in the psychatric institutions also.   Bro Johnny Posted on Tuesday, October 29, 2002 - 9:54 am:        Ya you got that right and thats so true,sometimes i realy feel Nuts! but you know iv heard it said that all the real Nuts are walking all around us out here! and its the normal people thats locked up in the institutions!Satan is working overtime on our brains 24-7 and he surely don,t want us to have {any} truth in us at all, he knows his time is short thats why he has to hit us with everything he,s got! so if you woke up today and the devil is jumping up and down on your back with both hands and feet!!! than you must be doing something right with God! but if hes not messing with you at all!!! than be very carefull becouse something is realy wrong! iv learned that much in life!the only people walking around with no problems no worries or cares! is the people the devil already has in his pocket! becouse if you are truly of God than the devil realy hates your guts with a pashion,and will surely let you know about!!! have a Blessed day! Brother Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 12:39 am:        This is in response to Anoynomous-May 27. You will find "extreme teachings or people in any denomination. It does not necessarily make it a cult. In Acts 15:1, there were certain men who told the early Christians that they had to be circumcised in order to be saved. The church leader's response "......why tempt ye God, to put a yoke upon the neck of the disciples, which neither our fathers nor we were able to bear? (Acts 15:10) I don't know how long have you trusted Christ as your saviour; if you haven't, then first things first. God is not concerned about the length of your skirt, but he is concerned about whether you have trusted His Son, Jesus Christ, as your Saviour. If you have trusted Christ as Saviour, then you need to be in a church where you can be nurtured; where Christ is preached and his word is exemplified in his people. If there is nagging doubts, and the feeling of bondage, then you need to find a church that will meet your spiritual needs. Question -- Have you tried talking to your pastor or a sound, loving Christian? Lastly, whatever you do, continue to trust and focus on Christ. Sometimes (or maybe alot of times) our experiences with people, especially negative, usually effect our relationship with Christ.   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, November 14, 2002 - 12:17 pm:        You might be in a cult if they... •overstep the boundaries of Scripture when it comes to limiting leaders' guidance capacity •twist verses like "Touch not my anointed" implying that we can't be critical of leaders without being critical of God •stress trusting leaders, having faith in leaders, imitating leaders and being loyal to them •grant disciplers (lay people) significantly greater authority to guide than Biblical standards permit •at times claim that refusal to obey leaders' opinions in personal matters is sin •allow leaders to exercise authority like high officials instead of being a servant to the their flock •stress that leaders are servants but in practice allow leaders to force their opinions on members by threatening or actually carrying out public or private rebuke for differences of opinion •not call attention to Scriptures saying that people were not always expected to obey their leaders •imply, or even teach, that we should look on our leaders as the Apostles looked on Jesus •classify almost all criticism of leaders as slanderous or malicious •selectively focus on the idea that Jesus endured under abusive authority by being crucified; implying that we should obey even bad advice from leaders as that would prove our brokenness •selectively focus on words or phrases and change their meanings; especially the words: obey, submit, dying to self, thus making it appear that a complete compliance to group leaders is what the Bible teaches •denigrate any career other than full-time service to the church as serving God less than full-time ministry •not teach that there is a distinction between back-biting, and legitimately criticizing leadership's actions •not teach that the authority is in the message and not the messenger •permit novices to oversee souls or promote novices to positions of leadership •teach that Jesus poured himself into only 12 people •not teach that there is a distinction between a leader's opinion or advice, and the Lord's Biblical commands •not stress "Each one should be fully convinced in his own mind" (Romans 14:5) •not stress Scriptures which describe how Jesus refused to obey authority •not explain that the Greek word exousia was never used in reference to church leaders, except the Apostle •not explain that only reasonable commands of leaders must be obeyed and that these must stay within scriptural boundaries •impress that we need to be accountable to a leader in every area of our life and not just in the area of Scripture •control negative feedback of leaders •squelch legitimate criticism of leadership •teach people to obey even when they don't feel right about it (thus encouraging people to die to their sense of right and wrong) •teach that doubts and criticism of leadership equals sin •teach that all criticism of leadership is probably slanderous, divisive or factious •cause members to loose jobs, promotions or deter them from school or other goals or family activities •emphasize Biblical ideas like dying to self in a non-scriptural way •subtly redefine the meanings of words •hound on these certain Biblical words almost to the exclusion of other sound Biblical principles •induce guilt in members so they confess being sorry for not trusting their leader more •not tell you that in the Bible trust or loyalty is never used in reference to church leaders •teach you that unity means that you need to change your opinions to match the groups' instead of constancy of purpose •teach you that you must only go to leaders in private when you are pointing out error •encourage the combination of trusting leaders and not criticizing   Anonymous Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 3:30 pm:        This is for Rev. Brandon, I am not a pastor, but I am an Intern for a Pentecostal church which does not follow any of the doctrines that you describe as "scripture based". Your limitations that you are putting on the members of your church are the reason why there are so many lost people in the world today who do not want to give their lives to the Lord, becuase of the may hoops that HUMANS have placed on serving him. God is a God of grace and love, and His desire is to have relationship with us. The way that Jesus taught while he was here completely contradicted what the Pharisees taught...that following the law was going to bring them closer to God. What did Jesus do? He allowed God's love to flow out of him, and this is what brought people to know the Father. You being a pastor should be ashamed of yourself for not preaching about God's unconditional grace and love; but instead, condemning people for stupid things like wearing makeup and watching TV. God accepts us the way we are because His gracious favor is all we need, and I believe that as you stand in the pulpit, this should be what you reiterate to the lost people. God loves us and He will draw us close to Him, no matter what we may have. You are stealing people's joy, and that is not the way that God intended things to be. His yoke is easy, and His burden is light, and making people feel guilty for living in the world and depriving themselves of joy shows me that you are not a dispenser of grace. Grace is the only way that people will have the desire to give their lives to the Lord, and you must realize that your influence is heavy as a pastor. If you TRULY DESIRE to see people be saved, then focus on God's grace and love as you minister, and stop being a Pharisee.   Anonymous Posted on Friday, November 15, 2002 - 3:57 pm:        This is in response to John, the gay white male. First, I just want to apologize to you for that girl that condemned you at your workplace. I believe that those kinds of people who call themselves Christians are tarnishing the image of God in the eyes of the unsaved people. She had absolutely no right to treat you in that fashion. While I must say that I am a Christian and I do personally feel as though homosexuality is wrong in the eyes of the Lord, I also know that God loves you more than you could ever imagine and that he longs to have you become one of his children. Just the same way that many other people have strongholds in their lives, God wants you to come to him first, then deal with the sin. Don't be deceived by people like your co-worker; God's love and the sacrifice that Jesus made for us on the cross covers over everything...even your rainbow necklace. While it may have offended her, if she were truly expressing God's love to you, she would have still showed you love despite anything that you were wearing. Just be encouraged that God loves you no matter what, and if you would just give your life to him, then He will do some amazing things in your life.   matsiasan Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 12:21 am:        <Spam Deleted by Administrator>   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 4:36 am:        To the above post. You must either own that site or you have to be getting paid to advertise on so many forums. And I can just about promise you that your posts will be deleted in less than twenty four hours.   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, November 16, 2002 - 8:54 pm:        To Bro. Johnny Do you have any idea how smug and self righteous you sound? John did not have to reveal anything personal about himself but he did and you treated him like dirt. Guess what baby? God love s him just like he loves you and me. Is it his gaynees that offends you or his honesty? You need to see the light Bro.johnny. You are acting like a self righteous jerk and that aint right. READ YOUR BIBLE and quit just taking somebodys eleses word of what is in it. Why should john love us chriastians, look how we treat him. By the way Bro..their aint nothing beautiful about a beat down pale faced thinned haired sister who aint allowed to enhance her features. And for the record, I was raised in this and I can tell you .. the pentecostal churches are FULL of sexual immorality and we just hide it behind our hypocritical smirks. Wow john I truly Feel Sorry for you and Pray for you.you have so much Hate in your Heart! your in Darkness and Drakness can,t understand the true Shining light my Beutifull Pentecostal Sisters have within them!   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, November 17, 2002 - 3:27 am:        This is to the above post. Although I have not completely agreed with everything Bro Johnny has said basically he has told the truth. He spoke of his own struggle with sexual sin and when he compared it to the sins of others namely gay people he said one sin was no greater than another. Sin is sin. I have seen anger in his posts and I have also seen repentence in his posts. Don't be too hard on him. He is not perfect as none of us are. We all struggle with sin, as we will until we die., We Christians are frequently so quick to point fingers and blame others but we sometimes forget we ourselves fall short. If you see your brother is in error then pray for him and point it out to him but with kindness and gentleness. Christ said in John 13:35-36 A new commandment I give to unto you, that you love one another as I have loved you, that you also love one another. By this shall all men know that ye are my disciples, if ye have love one to another. As to your statement "the pentecostal church is full of sexual immorality".....sadly so are many other organizations. And as for that "beat down pale faced thinned haired sister who ain't allowed to enhance her features," if she is in Christ, that is really all that matters. I'm not saying it's wicked to wear makeup because I don't think it is, I'm only saying Christ looks on the inside not the outside. Salvation is not dependent on looking good but what is in the heart. Sure most people want to look nice but pleasing God is more important. If these pentecostal women go without makeup they do it because they are trying to please Christ. This is their way of honoring God. Criticizing will only give them another burden to carry. We need to build the body of Christ up and not tear it apart. And these women are part of the body of Christ. Proverbs 31:10,30 Who can find a virtuous woman? For her price is far above rubies. Favour is deceitful and beauty is vain: but a woman that feareth the Lord, she shall be praised. God bless you. You have a perfect right to express yourself. But try and be a little more tolerant of your brothers and sisters in Christ. As much as they can try your patience they will also stand next to you in glory.   Bro Johnny Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 3:15 am:        God Bless you i haven,t came on for awhile becouse i felt anger in my post and i truly needed to Repent of it,but i wasen,t attacking John personely i told him that i loved him and that i was praying for him as well as everyone elese on this site! i was just trying to be as truthfull as i could without hurting anyone. but if i did hurt anyone in here i im deepely sorry! don,t get me wrong im not sorry for Truth but sorry if i hurt anyone,i Fight with the Flesh everyday of my life, so i am by no means better than anyone on the face of this earth! but i realy feel we should all surch out Truth for just what it stands for and not what we stand for!!! you see my Brother you say i have hate in my heart,but still you put down the Pentecostal Sisters thats not right is it? theirs good and bad in every religion and in every race and color, im Italian but that don,t mean i would shut someone or i eat pasta everyday of my life,i truly love the Lord and i fall short as much as the next person but i keep geting back up!and praying for the Lord to lead me into his Truth, well its late and im tired sorry if i spelled some things wrong, May God Bless each and every Soul in here with His Truth Only Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 6:27 am:        I believe that you are sincere and that you love God passionately. I just beleive that Like me and others here, you are caught up in a church system that is not healthy. Wht not shuck the bad stuff and start your own church? I was rude and I did attack you. You have my sincerest apologies.   Bro Johnny Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 1:51 pm:        Wow thank you Brother i know that Truly came from the heart and thats Beutifull to see,i know in my Heart God is not happy with us puting eachother down becouse with out love we all missed the boat,we all have to work out our own Salvation with out missing the Mark,so ill start by saying i truly love you my Brother and john to i have nothing against gay people but i know through Faith and trust in Christ they can and will be deliverd if they truly seek him! iv been healed from a big tumer on my left lung i still have COPD but the tumer is gone Two years ago i was told i had colin cancer and they were 95% sure that the cancer spred through my intestens they showed me a picture of this big ugely tumer in my colin and tryed to cut me Three times in one weak,but the last time they tryed to cut me the doctor just looked at me and said theirs nothing their,he couldent believe it,he asked me over and over if i saw the picture and i just smiled and said ya i saw it,Doctor Jesus don,t need no knife to cut out the cancer!!! the cancer we all have is a lack of love so lets let God cut out the Cancer once and for all God bless you Brother Bro johnny   Anonymous Posted on Tuesday, November 19, 2002 - 10:21 pm:        God bless you Brother Johnny. I am the post dated November 17 above your post. Although I disagree with some things said, I knew before, you were sincere. You present as a man who loves God and is trying to live for him. May you continue to grow in the Lord each and everyday and make he continue to make himself known in your life. To the second post above mine. I commend you. To admit a wrong takes a big person. Sometimes we are quick to speak without knowing the entire story. Your apology shows you have a forgiving and repentent heart. God bless you and may mercy and compassion always be shown to you. To both of you. Your sister in Christ.   Bro Johnny Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 2:31 am:        Wow God Bless you my Sister you have Truly touched my Heart in a mighty way,i don,t have all the ancers Sister,but i sometimes Cry inside deepely just thinking of this lost dark world and the ones i love the most my own faimly wont listen to me! and time is so so short,i see a whole world walking around with their heads in the sky! broken hearted,miss led,confessed,depressed or just don,t care at all and you know whats so scary Sister im one of those people at times and it scares the Hell out of me! one day a Brother looked at me in Church and said with fear in his eyes Brother Johnny only eight people made it last time,and God said it will be the same this time! he diden,t say only eight but he did say very Few will enter or even find the narrow way,sometimes i pray tell the sun comes up,i know people don,t understand my pentecostal ways and i don,t blame them,i diden,t understand them either,i thought they were all nuts 10 years ago,but when i read the Bible for myself i see that not one man or women was every Baptized in the Name of the Father the son and the holy ghost the Trinity mode matthew 28:19, but all were baptized in the name of jesus Christ for the remission of sins Acts 2:38 through out the whole 27 books of the new testament,and after all the Apostles died off 325ad was the three fold baptism brought into the Church by Constantine a man that worshiped pagan sun gods,we can find this in any secular history book or Encyclopedia as like pagan Holidays,brought in by the Catholic Church if we truly study these things we would find so so much that people just go along with that truly has nothing to do with the Bible,even in the UPC my own Church Celebrates Christmass,Easter and other compromisses they make,and i ask myself how can they do this when they claim to stand so hard Against the Trinity and they claim to not compromise the word of God,i know many people would stand against me on this but i personely feel if its not in the Bible than im not for it! but again thats my conviction and im not trying to put it off on anyone elese,but it realys confuesses me, do we follow man or God,its not easy at all my Sister to stand out in my own Church and take a stand for what i believe to be true,sometimes i get depressed and feel like an outsider with my own Church,but im hard headed and stand out anyway,but all i know is we have to be so carefull and not get carryed away with every wind of Doctrine, and that we walk a fine fine line between Truth and Apostasy,all i can do is pray that im not being decived,God said if it were possiable even the very elect would be decieved, Wow that sure blows my mind,if they could be decived than who am i??? its fear of being decieved that makes me study so hard and truly question so many things i love my Preacher with all my heart but if he preaches something that don,t line up with the Word of God,im not going to go along with it and follow him into Hell,i will just stand alone firm,becouse i can get their by myself i don,t need no help, so i guess i learned to chew on the meat and spite out the bones!well its late again im tired and my son is sleeping,i don,t expect anyone here to agree with me,but if i could be a Blessing to just one person before i die or the Lord comes back, than i know im doing right by the Lord,Good night my Sister and may our Lord Jesus Christ truly Bless you with all the love Health and Happyness only he can give,as well as every Soul in here, Bro Johnny ps sorry about the long post   Mreed Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 3:04 pm:        God is in spirit & truth & those should serve him in spirit & truth-Whatever spirit or truth you believe him to be. I have seen it from both sides. I can't say I am a pentecostal because I am not-I can't say I am backsliden because I am not. I am someone who has gotten my eyes off other people..I don't want anyone to drag me down,upset or hurt me because I am someone who just loves Jesus....Can you say that??   Bro Johnny Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 5:45 pm:        God Bless you Mreed to ancer your question. yes i can say i am someone that loves Jesus Christ,and have i gotten my eyes off other people no i can,t honestely say that i have,but im learning and trying my best,and yes i agree God is Spirit and for this reason we must all worship Him in Spirit and Truth, but out of love and Respect i don,t agree with what you said that he is {whatever Spirit or Truth you Belive him to be}Their is only One Spirit and only One Truth and only One Living Word by which we must obey,and that Word Which is the Spirit of the One God and Truth became Flesh and dwelt among us,and thats the Greatest love story every told,i Don,t Believe in any way shape or form that God that loved us so deepely sent any second Person of a GodHead to do his Job,He loved us so much that God Came Himself in the Flesh to Reconcile lost Hellbound man kind back to Himself!When i picture Jesus Christ on the cross,i see God himself in the Flesh on that Cross Bleeding for you and me,My God Have you every looked at it like that before? ACTS 20:28 it says to feed the Church of {God},Which {He} has purchased {with his own blood},God could not have bleed if he wasen,t that Flesh on that Cross,the Flesh died on that Cross Emmanuel God with us none other,Jesus Christ was the Son of the living God birthed of a women but he left that Cross the Great I AM,their wasen,t God the Father and God the Son and God the Holy Sprit hanging on that Cross, it was the One true God Himself in the Flesh hanging on that Cross bleeding for you and me, the same God that was manifest in the flesh, the same God that was justified in the Spirit, the same God that preached unto the Gentiles,the same God that was beliveied on in the whole world and the same God that was received back up into glory,How could God that purchased the Church Which is you and me with his own blood,that hung on a Cross be received back up into Glory if He never came down in the first plase???People go to Church to praise the lord of glory,but ask yourself This do they truly know just who Jesus Christ the Lord of Glory truly is? people go to Church to Pray to the first person of the Godhead,Through the Second Person of the Godhead and wate to recieve the third person of the Godhead!!! WoW i know it sounds Crazy but thats just what they do when they seperate God into a Trinity, so the next time you close your eyes and picture Jesus Christ on the Cross Bleeding for you just know 100% that in HIM dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily and ye are COMPLET in HIM, So yes i Truly Know just who it is i love and Serve and His Name is Jesus Christ the Lord of Glory, the Great Almighty, The Great I AM, the Wonderfull Counsellor, the mighty God,The everlasting Father, and the Prince of Peace,.....Can you say the that? i sure Hope so,,, God Bless you, Yours in Christ Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 9:20 pm:        Hello I always knew there was only one God. The bible says there is only one. I believe the bible is 100% truth because it is God's word. But I do have some questions maybe you can answer Bro Johnny or anyone. The bible says that Jesus(who I know is God) ascended into heaven and sits on the right hand side of God. How is this so if he is God. When Jesus was here in the flesh, he was baptized and a voice from the heavens said "This is my beloved son in whom I am well pleased." How is this so if Jesus is God. I have asked this of people before and no one seems to know how to answer this. I know it's not a contradiction in the bible but my own lack of understanding. Can you help me?   Bro Johnny Posted on Wednesday, November 20, 2002 - 10:43 pm:        God Bless you Jesus Christ was God in the Flesh,when Jesus Christ ascended into heaven to site on the right hand of the father, the Right hand of God represents the Power of God,not a real hand like yours or mine, Right hand is the Power, remember Jesus Christ said All Power is given unto me in heaven and in earth MATTHEW 28:18 so he now has the Power to sit on the thron as God Almighty The Bible also says that when we die we shell see God for who he truly is,now if God is Spirit only we would not be able to see him right,when we die and face God Almighty we will be Faceing Jesus Christ the only image of God,think about this if God were a Trinty as they teach, God the Father God the Son and God the Holy Spirt,just what would you expect to see when you get up their? if i was tought that i would except to see three, or at least two if i coulden,t see the Holy Spirit i would at least except to see the Father God and the Son of God Jesus Christ, but that can,t be John 10:30 says I AND MY FATHER ARE ONE,Jesus also said when you see me you have seen the Father we can,t split one in half, one is one look at Titus 2:13 it says,Looking for the blessed hope and the glorious appearing of {the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ} Their will be only one glorious appearing in the clouds on that GREAT DAY,And it will be our Great God the Lord of Lords and King of Kings the Great I AM our Saviour and redeemer Jesus Christ siting on that hores in the clouds,their won,t be two of them their will be only One,the Only One as he Truly is, thats when every knee shall bow every eye shall see and every tongue shall confess that JESUS CHRIST IS LORD!!! oh my God thats So Beutifull ain,t! it says if they only knew just who he was they would never have Killed him ,Jesus Christ said you Shall Die in your Sins If you Believe not that I AM HE you Shall die in your Sins,may our Lord Truly Bless you with Wisdom and Understanding,just keep surching Brother with all your Mind Body Heart and Soul and you will surely find Him.Jusus Christ said if you Dilegntly seek me you will surely find me,God Bless you i hope this helped you a little Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:16 am:        oh im sorry to try to ancer your other qusetion Jesus was Humam and devine, Two Deitys,on the human side he was the Son of God becouse he was born of a women on his devine side he was God almighty in the flesh fullely God and Fullely man,The Son of God and The son of Man,the only possiable way i could see it is that when God said This is my beloved Son it had to be that God Almighty {devinety} was speaking to the jews of His Human manifestion birthed of a women which made the Flesh the son,1 TIMOTHY says And Without controversy great is the Mystery of godliness: God was Manifest in the flesh, also in the Gospel of John 1:1 it clearly says the Word {was God}, verce 14 says the {Word} was made Flesh, so we can clearely say that the living Word that was God Became Flesh and dwelt among us,but only very few had the true understanding of just who he realy was,he only reveiled himself to those he has called or chosen and only those that are Called or Chosen would be able to except Him or understand the Oneness Doctrine of God! God Bless you Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:46 am:        Thank you very much. That did help me. I already knew there was only one God. But you cleared up a few things for me.   Bro Johnny Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:52 am:        Great any time God Bless you Richely Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 1:25 am:        Good Night and May our Lord and King Jesus Christ Truly and Richely Bless each and every Soul in here and their Loved Ones!!!Yours in Christ Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 1:53 am:        Ps i would love to send you or anyone some info on the Right Hand of God that Would ancer all your questions! my email is jsaved1992@aol.com Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 2:18 am:        Good night and I also thank you for the bible information. I'm sure it will help more than just the person that asked. These posts remind me of a time when I wanted an answer. Once I asked a couple of co workers a question regarding the bible that I was pretty sure they knew. They laughed at me and never gave me an answer. This coming from people who proclaimed every chance they got that they were Christians. I was angry at myself for asking them in the first place and embarrassed that they knew I didn't know. How they made fun of me. I am glad to see everyone is not like that. So I can appreciate anyone taking the time to answer a question. I prayed over it and asked the Lord to help me to understand. Almost immediately I got a better understanding of what I wanted to know. Bro Johnny gave a beautiful answer but sometimes you can go directly to the source and the answer will be given to you. God bless you all. You sister in Christ   Bro Johnny Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 11:00 am:        God Bless you My Sister Im so Glad if Anything i may have said helped you or anyone in anyway! i have went through the samething many times with peolple who call themselfs Christians and claimed to have all the ancers but never have any ancers to the questions you ask them,that can realy hurt or like you said embarrass someone deepely to the point that they will give up and not ask anymore,and that can and will stop a person from growing in the Lord, just how can any of us grow if we can,t get the ancers we need to grow,Sometimes we need alot more than just hearing what the Precher says on Sunday Morning,becouse we all have questions that need to be ancered in order to grow,and sometimes even if we pull our Pastors to the side and ask them something they might do the same thing to us becouse they want you to believe only what they believe, and if you don,t like the ancer they give you they call you wrong!it has happened to me alot of times,but we can,t give up we have to keep surching intel we hear the ancer we need! not always the ancer we want but the ancer we need,and if we take that ancer to the Lord and he confirms it then we know its right becouse the Bible says the Holy Spirit will lead us into {all} Truth!!! if wear Truly seeking a ancer in the Spirit and the person we ask the question tells you something wrong a Holy Spirt alarm should go off inside you,becouse the Holy Spirit will never lead us into Falsehood!!!The True reason people get lead into Cults and Falsehood is that we in the Flesh except any ancer we ourselfs want to hear!without testing it by the Spirit to see if that ancer is Truly from God or not,becouse we don,t want to leave our own littel comfort zones!God told us Clearely to Test every Spirit!becouse! just becouse it sounds right or feels right don,t make it right!Their are many evil Spirits out their, The devil Ain,t going to come to us as a monstor or with horns sticking out of his head! he,s going to come to us as a Angel of light to decieve us and he,s good at it believe me!{i realy love just what you said}you said you prayed over it and asked the Lord to help you to understand,and Almost immediately you got a better understanding of what you wanted to know!!!not what you wanted to hear!!! you see you did what a True Christian should do,you diden,t take my word for it but prayed over it and took it to the Lord and he comfirmed it! God thats Beutifull,we should all do that with every question we have,thats truly walking in the Spirit my Sister!i love everyone in here and never want to hurt anyone in anyway shape or form,if someone is hurting and ask me a question i will always take that question to the Lord and make sure any ancer i every give can be backed up by the Word of God, not my word God forbid!!! My email is always open to any Brother or Sister who has a question! i may or may not have the ancer but i will surch very hard in the Bible to try my best to ancer it! it might take me two or three days but i will ancer it the best i can,we have to love eachother and help eachother in everyway when it comes to our Salvation,we may all be differnt but were all in the same boat and we just can,t throw a Brother or Sister over the side of that boat becouse their differnt,even thow sometimes we want to, but none of us has walked through the gates of heaven yet so we need to stick togather and not just think about ourselfs!i have learned that since i came on this site!i came in with a fighting Spirit but learned to Repent of that and realize that im not their yet and will never get their like that! again my email is jsaved1992@aol.com God Bless you in the Mighty Name above all Names Jesus Christ Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 12:58 pm:        This Website explains and ancers many many questions you or me may have when it comes to what is from God and whats not in our walk with Him,The Bible tells us "My people are destroyed for lack of Knowedge: I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children." HOSEA 4:6 WoW Thats very Deep!We have Gods road mape to Glory but in our Flesh we miss a turn here and a trun their intel were compeltely Lost!we Truly need to keep our eyes on the mape the only mape the living Word of God the B.I.B.L.E!!! i hope this can be a True Blessing to someone, heres the WebSite www.toolong.com God Bless you Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 10:45 pm:        Thank you Johnny. Even though you can't see the people here, your words are still being heard.   Bro Johnny Posted on Thursday, November 21, 2002 - 11:21 pm:        Thanks so much It means so very much to me if even one Person that is hurting out their hears me and i can Help that person in anyway,than i know in my heart its not in vain!!! im not your everyday UPC member belive me! i just want to do Gods will not mine! i Truly want to see us all up their. the Devil just sits down their and laughs at us all,while were triping over eachother! it realy makes you think right! God Bless you in Jesus Name Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 12:23 am:        This is for everyone Brother and Sister in here, You know im a very deep thinker and i question everything and everybody and when i have nothing or no one to question i question myself,maybe its becouse im Italian i don,t know!!! but i wonder so hard just what it is about man that loves to Hate and find falt in anything and everything possiable under the sun, what is it that drives us to Fight eachother like dogs in the street, Sept 11TH the Twin Towers brought New York City to its knees,but when all Hell broke lose their the People their came togather at Once!!! i know becouse thats where i come from, Soon as that happened the people of NYC brought strangers into their homes they diden,t care if they were spanish italian black or white,they diden,t care if they were Catholic Baptist or Pentecostal or if they prayed to a rock,they diden,t care if they were rich or filthy poor they just let them in Their door, Becouse to them that day was Hell on earth, can you see just what im saying here,why can,t we that call ourselfs Christians do the Same thing with and for eachother {Now}, to help keep eachother from burning in the Real coming hell that we will never excape!just a thought Wow what a thought right! can you see it! woulden,t it be Beuitefull??? yours in Christ Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 3:13 am:        I understand what you are saying. Alot of people carry the title Christian but they don't act it. I sometimes think how wonderful everything would be if people would just do what the Lord wants. No stealing, No mugging, no murders, no drugs, no abuse, nothing evil at all. You wouldn't need locks or security guards. There would be no need for guns or bombs or fighter planes. You wouldn't even need the military. You wouldn't have to be anxious about anything, no matter where you went or what you did because the world would be full of God's people. And I really believe if everyone were to turn to him, he would come back right now. But he is waiting for that last saint to turn to him, maybe one that is not yet born. Sometimes I just sit think how nice it would be and how people are robbing themselves of peace and they don't even know it. Of course it bothers me, especially when I know the people personally. Everyone please pray for the unbelievers so that the people that belong to the Lord come to that knowledge soon. All we can do is pray because satan is so busy, even when we are alseep. But one great day there will be complete peace and joy with no sin when our Lord comes. And I can't wait!!!!! Your sister in Christ.   Bro Johnny Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 3:14 pm:        Wow Sister that would be Beutifull,but the said thing about it is God diden,t make us that way,like i said im a Deep Thinker,i thought about all the things i have read on this site so far,just like one post said that God gave Wemen a free will to think for themselfs,and i agree with that 100%,but the real problem is God gave us all a free will to think both men and Wemen alike,but its our will we tend to follow not his,just looking at this messed up world Proves that without a dought,Modern day Religion teaches us all to understand the Bible 9000 different ways,and every one of us are fighting like cats and dogs becouse of it,The Catholics say they have the only Truth and so dose the Baptist and so dose the Pentecostals and so on and so on!!! but theirs only one Truth Gods Truths,if we who call our selfs True Christians could only see that and get past all these man made Doctrines and teaching and Humbel ourselfs and Bow down to the true one and only word of God we would have a fighting chance, but man will never ever do that becouse of our free Will,ill finsish this post later i have to go out God Bless you Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 4:16 pm:        God is wonderful to give us free will. We can decided ourselves what we want to do. He didn't make puppets. But the down side to this is people tend to choose the wrong things. It is so hard to do what is right all the time. When you think you are ok then you do or say something that is wrong. And you have to start all over again. It has to be true that we have a sin nature like the bible said, we can't seem to stop doing wrong no matter how hard we try. I hate it but how can I stop? I know Jesus died for us but how can we do what he wants us to do? If someone tells me "well you just don't have the spirit inside you", then what should I do? I pray already, I know God is there but I still sin. This is really bothering me. Please someone help me.   Bro Johnny Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 5:47 pm:        Wow i just have to love you so much for being so Truthfull thats Beuitefull,and you are so so Right, we are all born with a sinfull nature,thats why no matter how hard we try to do good we will always find Falt in ourselfs and everyone elese around us,its our human natrue to sin no matter what anyone tells you thats a fact, and we can,t change that!But we can give that sin to the Lord thats what he died for,the fact that we feel guilty or ashamed of our sin gives us witness that the Holy Spirit is working in us, if you have been reading my post you will see iv talked about a Holy Spirit Alarm system that gose off in us when someone trys to miss lead us,Well that same alarm system goes off when we sin aginst God,to tell us to stop what every it is that were doing wrong or to get back into his perfect will for us, but becouse of our fleshely sinfull nature,Brother Paul explains that theirs a battle going on inside of us, a real war for our very Souls, thats why Paul says that the Flesh always fights against the Spirit and the Spirit against the flesh,Jesus Christ Himself said the Spirit is Willing but the Flesh is Weak!!! My Brother or Sister its not just happening to you its happyening to each and every one of us,no matter who wants to admite it or not! i openely admite it fullely, i fight like Hell everyday of my life to try to do whats right in the sight of God, and it seems like a uphill battle, but you know what,1 JOHN 1:9 says If we confess our sins, he is faithfull and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness, now look at the next verce 10 If we say that we have not sinned, we make Him a liar, and His Word is not in us!!! let me tell you something, Christ diden,t say we wasen,t going to sin once we came to know him, but he said to confess ours sins and he is faithfull to forgive us, that don,t mean we can just go out their and willfullely sin and do what every we want, but when we fall into sin He,s always their for us, and don,t every let any man on the face of this earth tell you different! God loves you and he knows your weakness and mine we just have to trust in him to see us through it! Only Jesus Christ walked the face of this earth without Sin, God Bless you Brother Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Friday, November 22, 2002 - 10:34 pm:        sorry i was buzzy Our minds is the Adversarys or the Devils playground, its his courtyard, and he got the ball, and one of the oldest lies in the world stright from hell that the Devil uses on us is that condemnation comes from God!!! look at this, JOHN 5:24 Verial Verial, i say onto you, He that heareth my word, and believeth on him that sent me, hath everlasting life, and shall not come into condemnation; but is passed from death unto life. it is the Devils J.O.B to make you and me feel so Dirty unworthy and guilty that we come to truly believe in our hearts that God gave up on us! Jesus Christ said i will never leave you or forsake you not even untel the end of the world, and when Jesus Christ who is God almighty says Never He Means Never!!! Jesus Christ came to Save the lost, the sinners, the Filthy, the Dirty, the outcast of the citys, the mugers, the murders, the whores the whoremoungers the gays the junkies the alcoholics, the worst of the worst!!! we don,t go to the doctor unless were sick, you don,t see healthy people sitting around in the doctors office right, well its the same with God, we don,t come to doctor Jesus intel were sick in sin, and sometimes we can,t bring ourselfs to doctor Jesus becouse of our guilt and fear of faceing Him or rejection, so we stay out their longer and longer in our sin, intel were so sick in our sin to the point of death, and were tired of it and want so badely to come back to him, but only then here comes the Devil with the condemnation trick or head game! and he puts in your mind that God wants nothing to do with you anymore, and your finshied, and he gave up on you, and theirs just no more hope left for you anymore, oh ya and this is the best one, he tells you that you might as well just keep doing what your doing becouse your going to Hell anyway, well the Devils a liar, every man,women and child on the face of this earth has hope, we are never hopeless when it comes to Jesus Christ, while theirs breath theirs hope, are you breathing??? if so than theirs hope for you, only after we take our last breath will we be without hope in him who died for us, heres {Free Will} again,we all have a choice to either except him or Reject him, life or death, heaven or hell, theirs no inbetween, but if we except him we need to but {all} of our trust and faith in him, he wont leave you when you fall belive me just as long as you keep on getting up,it don,t matter how many times you fall, just keep getting up,and crying out JESUSSSSSSS Help me, and just keep looking up becouse you know he,s looking back down to see just whos looking up, the Bible says in the last days it shall come to pass that whosoever calls on the name of Jesus Christ Shall be saved, God Bless you Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 4:57 am:        You will never ever know how good you have made me feel. Thank you so much. Thank you. Every single thing you said is just what I feel. When I sin I always think God is tired of me and doesn't want to be bothered with me asking him to forgive me. I think, why does he want me when he can have so much better. You said the devil makes us feel this way, well that is exactly how I feel. I feel sometimes that I am hopeless when it comes to sin but I always crawl back to Christ. Thank you for reminding me he never gets tired of me. I made the choice to follow him for the rest of my life. Thank you again. A Believer   Bro Johnny Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 12:27 pm:        Wow Thats so so Beuitefull,But don,t thank me thank The Lord, the King, the Master,for puting you in my path, Right now im thanking the Lord for puting you in my path, thats what being a True Christian is all about, reaching out and touch the hurting, the broken hearted, the weak, the poor in Spirit, Im Pentecost but thats not what its about at all,i came on this site to defend my Pencostal People with anger and rage in my Heart, but come to realize i was the one who was wrong in fighting and cutinging People with my words, i am no better than anyone in her or anywhere elese for that matter! it took time for me to take off my boxing gloves and hung them up, but when i did some Brothers and Sisters in here heard my words, and i asked God to lead me and to let me be a True Blessing to Someone, so he did and i saw your post and it brought pain to my heart to see you hurting like that, becouse iv been their My Brother or Sister so many many times, feeling like God just gave up on me and wanted nothing to do with me anymore, my God your Post brought back to me so many times i felt the same exact way you did, crushed, Hopeless worthless!!! it cuts me so deepely in my heart to see anyone out their feel that way when they don,t have to, we all forget at times we have a grest High Priest, that God almighty Himself came down in the Flesh to suffer for us all, so we wont have to ever feel condemnation!!! their is no condemnation for them that are in Christ! Check this out ok, James 5:19 brethren, if any of you do err from the Truth, and one convert him;20 Let him Know, that he which convertedth that sinner from the error of his way shall save a soul from death, and shall hide a multitude of sins!!! Romans 11:14 If by any means I may provoke to emulation them which are my flesh, and might save some of them. and least but by no means least! 1 Peter 4:8 and above all things have fervent charity among yourselves: for charity shall cover the multitude of sin. isen,t that Beutifull, well keep strong in the Lord and don,t every give up on God, Becouse God never gives up on us Never Every! its us that give up on him but he,s always their waiteing with open arms to welcom us back, Never forget that,Please Never forget that, Thank you so much for hearing my words, But Remember this if anything in my words helped you at all it diden,t come from me but the Holy Spirit gave witness to my heart to speak the words you need to hear, and be a Blessing to you, so now you can Truely be a Blessing to someone elese that is hurting, so pass it on, God Bless you in Jesus Name Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Saturday, November 23, 2002 - 2:11 pm:        Ps i crawl back to Him every Morning to, and every Morning i wake up to a New day of His Wonderfull Mercey that im not worthy of, Soon as i open my eyes i pray for Him to hold me and to get me through just one more day in His Love, One day at a time My Brother or Sister, Just One day at a time,yesterday is History and tommaro is a Mystery So all we can do is take it One Day at a Time, Theirs a Praty going on right Now in Heaven becouse One Soul Found His or Her way Back to His Everyloving Grace, and the Devil just lost One!!! My God thats so Beuitefull ain,t it, God Bless you, Pray for me and Ill Pray for you, Brother Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 1:05 am:        John 15:13 Greater love hath no man than this, that a man lay down his life for his friends.14 Ye are my friends, if ye do whatsoevery I command you.15 Henceforth I call you not servants; for the servant knoweth not what his lord doeth: but I have called you friends; for all things that I have heard of my Father I have made Known unto you. Oh What a Mighty God we serve! He Calls us His Friends!!! Good Night and God Bless you in Jesus Name! Bro Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 5:04 am:        I will remember you in my prayers Johnny. Hope you have a nice day in church today.   Bro Johnny Posted on Sunday, November 24, 2002 - 1:54 pm:        Thank you for your Prayers,they realy worked this is the First day i got up and went to Church Feeling Good,i was sick for about two weeks and i missed Church all last week, i thank you in Jesus Name!!! im Praying for each and every Soul on this site,God Bless you Bro Johnny   val Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 8:47 pm:        Hi, my name is Valerie and I am doing a research paper for school on the Pentecostal religion. I have some questions that I would like to ask so I can include the responses in my paper. If you could help me out, I'd appreciate your answers on as many of the following questions as possible. Thank you! Have you been Pentecostal all your life? When and how did you become involved in this religion? What church do you attend and how often? I have heard that sometimes after being blessed by the Pastor, a person will fall down and go into convulsions. Does this happen regularly, and can you tell me more about it? When you tell people that you are Pentecostal, what is their reaction if any at all? What is the language of Tongues, what is its purpose, and do you use it? Can you describe a typical service? Any other interesting information about your beliefs and/or practices in the Pentecostal Church? Thank you for your time!   Anonymous Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 9:39 pm:        I can tell you a little as I am not pentecostal. I have relatives that are. I am a Christian but I don't completely agree wih all of their doctrine. My relatives are not in a cult. I can at least say that. There may be some sects that are cultish but not the people I know. They love God and their church. They are not afraid to speak to or socialize with me. They invite me to be with them and they accept my invitations. Because I am not in this church, tongues, being slayed in the spirit and dancing in the church are not something I am that familiar with although I have seen it. I don't think the Pentecostal Church is a cult. Like I said before, there can be sects of any deomination that is cult like. . I believe Jesus who is God, came to sacrifice himself for our sins. We couldn't do it for ourselfs. I believe he arose from the dead and ascended into the heavens and that one day he will be back. I believe the bible is the inspired word of God and it is 100% true. If you read a bible you will see it says we are all sinners. God being holy, hates sin. The wages of sin is death. But since we can't save ourselves because he loves us so much, he came to die for us. He took our place. So since he was raised up, we will be too when he comes. I know it might sound strange to someone that is not a Christian but it makes perfect sense. God is love. He loves you so much he died for you. That is a great love. How many people besides maybe your parents would die for you. The bible says If you confess with you mouth the Lord Jesus, and believe in your heart that God raised him from the death, thou shall be saved. So while you are learning about pratices and beliefs in pentecostal churches, learn the most important thing.....learn about who pentecostals worship, The Lord Jesus. Your sister in Christ   Anonymous Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 9:49 pm:        P.S. If I thought my relatives were in a cult I would tell anyone that would listen and expose the cult. But it's just not the case.   Bro Johnny Posted on Monday, November 25, 2002 - 11:13 pm:        Thats a Beutifull Point my Sister, the most important thing to learn about Pentecostals is to learn just Who we Worship,We worship the Great I AM,The One and Only God Almighty,The King of Kings and Lords of Lords,The Prince of Pease,The Wonderfull Counsellor,The everylasting Father,All which is none other than Jesus Christ Himself,ill ancer all your questions,just give me a day or so i just got in from doing some drug and alcohol Counselling i do out in walters Oklahoma every monday night for some kids that got themselfs in trouble! so im realy tired and fighting a cold,yours in Christ Brother Johnny   Anonymous Posted on Tuesday, November 26, 2002 - 1:58 am:        Hi Brother. I hope you feel better soon. Take care of yourself. To Val sorry I misquoted that scripture I wrote due to typos. I knew it as soon as I posted it. That's the last thing I want to do. It goes this way: Romans 10:9 That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved. Good night, Your sister in Christ   2centsworth Posted on Wednesday, November 27, 2002 - 8:53 pm:        Why don't we look at what the Bible says about various churches? The following appears to me as if it could apply to SOME 'charismatic' churches: "Not every one who says to me, 'Lord, Lord,' shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven. 22 On that day many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?' 23 And then will I declare to them, 'I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers.' On the other hand, couldn't this apply to SOME conventional churches?: "'I know your works: you are neither cold nor hot. Would that you were cold or hot! 16 So, because you are lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spew you out of my mouth. 17 For you say, I am rich, I have prospered, and I need nothing; not knowing that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked. It seems that we should all be on our guard. God knows our hearts.   Anonymous Posted on Thursday, November 28, 2002 - 4:26 am:        As I said before, there can be sects of ANY denomination that can be described as cult like.   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, November 30, 2002 - 5:25 am:        One thing that I have noticed is all the different groups have a leader. Most of them give high regard and glory to a person. The person's word seems to be law. I have never been able to see one person as the end all expert on how I should live my life. Groups like Branch Davidians, People's Temple, Mormons, Adventists, TM, EST, Moonies, Ramtha,and that silly group that all killed themselves thinking they would catch a ride on a comet. The problem with these groups are they all look to man (or woman) to tell them the absolute truth. Instead of asking GOD who would not lead them to destruction, they seek the answers from people who are as lost as they are. I have to say although the pentecostal church has ministers, deacons, and other positions, there is only real authority they follow, the authority of JESUS CHRIST. This does not sound like a cult to me.   jadbe Posted on Sunday, December 01, 2002 - 8:35 pm:        Greetings to all of the servants of the lord Jesus Christ. I see a lot of different conversations going on in here. Mainly about pentacostal churches. Well I myself is in holiness, which is very similar to pentacostal. There are many denominations in the world but only one God and savoir of men who is Jesus Christ. We are told in the word of God to be holy. And Holiness is being separated and different from the world. As being christians and saints we should kep ourselves from sin and wickedness. And yes i do believe in a holy standard. I wouldn't call it a dress code, but a standard. i myself belive that women are to adorn themselves in modest appearel. and when i say modest i don;t mean looking like a PLAIN JANE. But just keeping it modest. i believe that women should not wear earrings, makeup, braided hair and pants. But i will say this that wearing these things will not send you to hell, but it is the principle of being modest. But all of this not watching television and stuff like that i disagree with. i just truly believe in allowing jesus to rule and have control of your life and live according to the word of god. please reply to me.   Anonymous Posted on Saturday, December 07, 2002 - 5:06 am:        I do wear a little jewlery every now and then. I don't think there is anything really wrong with it. I also wear pants sometimes. I am not wearing men's pants. I wear women's pants. I don't want to look like a man but wearing pants does not automatically make one look mannish. Wearing a pant suit can be very modest if you wear the right one. I do have problems with people who say you can't do this or you can't do that. Some say women can't wear pants, or you can't go to the movies, or you can't listen to seclular music, you can't socialize with non church members. I had a friend once, who I said to let's go see ...... at the movies. This person who was pentecostal said No I can't. I said why and I was told because they don't do that in the pentecostal church. I said it wouldn't hurt. I did not plan on going to a vulgar movie but was still told no. I understand it's done because of reverance to God. But sometimes you have to just think for a moment. If someone said let's go see a Mickey Mouse cartoon at the movies, why would that be wrong? It's not the actual act of going to the movies that would be wrong but the wrong type of movie you watch. And to me not watching tv is the same as not going to the movies. The reason I say this is most of what is on tv is junk and very few programs are of any worth. The same is true of movies. But if you find one that is ok, what's wrong with watching it? I am not trying to talk anyone out of not going to the movies or women not wearing pants. I just mean sometimes a little common sense is needed when deceiding on what not to do. I am glad you said "wearing these things will not send you to hell" This is true. I wear jewlery and you couldn't find anyone that believes on the Lord Jesus as much as I do. But I also understand you have to serve the Lord the way you see fit. So God bless you even though I don't completely agree with everything you said.   Anonymous Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 4:56 pm:        I have gone to a Baptist church all my life. I have never heard anyone say there is more than one God. There is only one. I thought every believer knew that. So what is this oneness thing. What is the difference between a oneness pentecostal and other denominations? I don't get it.   Bro Johnny Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 11:17 pm:        We Baptize in the Name of Jesus Christ ACTS 2:38 the way the Apostles did and the way everyone in the Bible got Baptized,not The Trinity Baptism In the Name Of the Father the Son and the Holy Gost! this was not known intel the catholic church brought it in,in the year 325AD its Man Made!God Bless you Bro Johnny   Bro Johnny Posted on Sunday, December 08, 2002 - 11:27 pm:        The Trinty teaches God the Father, God the Son, and God the Holy Spirit! or God is the First Person in the GodHead, Jesus Christ is the Second Person in the GodHead, and The Holy Gost is the Third Person of the GodHead!!! Yet they Can,t Explane this no matter how hard they try, We believe in One God Only Jesus Christ which is the Father, the Son, and Holy Gost!   Anonymous Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 4:17 am:        That is what I believe also. I don't agree much with what catholics do. So if they do it it's probably not right anyway. Praying to statues and kissing the pope's ring is something I could never do. But I do have one other thing to say. When I came to this website I never expected to see pentecostals listed as a cult. Just like I wouldn't expect to see Baptists listed as a cult. I was surprised. I didn't know people thought of pentecostals that way. I know you don't dress fancy and there are things you don't do. I don't really care about that. But if you teach anything that is not biblical then you are a cult. I hope everything you teach comes from the bible. Thank you for answering my post.   Bro Johnny Posted on Monday, December 09, 2002 - 4:21 pm:        God Bless you And i Don,t Know why People call We Pentecostals a Cult either, I guess it,s becouse were different in our dress and our stead fastness to sound Doctrine, we don,t go outside of the Bible for anything at all, COLLSSIANS 2:8 Beware least any man spoil you through philosophy and vain deceit, after the tradition of men, after the rudiments of the world, and not after Christ. 9 For in him dwelleth all the fullness of the Godhead bodily. and ye are complete in him, which is the head of all principality and power: you see thats why we Pentecostals don,t split the Godhead into three different Persons, for we Clearely see the Fullness of the Godhead is in Jesus Christ alone, and we are complete in Him and None other, thats why we Baptize in the Name of Jesus Christ ACTS 2:38, and when we go to Church and Worship Jesus Christ we are Worshiping the Fullness of the Godhead! if anyone every teaches you anything that can,t be lined up with the Living Word of God, Run like Hell from that person or they will drag you stright into HELL with Them!!! 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