| Author | Message | ||
     concerned parent |
Anybody have any information on this group or experienced this group firsthand or one of their affiliated churches? There is not much online except freedom of mind.com. If so, please respond to the forum post | ||
| familiar with whaleys |
http://www.availablelightonline.com/spindale/spindalelinks.html very thorough with links, testimonies, and was used by Wellspring counselors when they had recovering ex-cult members from this group in their facilities. | ||
| Anonymous |
I have within the past year left from WOFF and would like someone to talk to - in order to share my experiences and for them to share with me. | ||
| Anonymous |
Who is WOFF? | ||
| Anonymous |
Word of Faith Fellowship - its the name of Sam and Jane Whaleys "cult" | ||
| Anonymous |
I have recently broke away from the bondage of New Jerusalem Outreach in Leland, NC. They follow the same practices, etc. of WOFF. Is anybody familiar with this church? My wife currently attends and is forcing the children to attend against their wishes. I'm sure there are great people that have left WOFF that has like experiences as I and can share them with me. If so, please e-mail. Thank you, Mightygreatful | ||
| Anonymous |
I live in Forest City which shares its main street with Spindale and is the town directly beside it. I worked at a local business in Spindale for two years and I saw groups of the WOFF churchmembers everyday. Never did they come alone and the voices were very hoarse. It was sad to see these people everyday and know that they were victims of a such cruel behaviors and not be able to do anything to help them. These people were the nicest people you would ever meet and it saddens me to know that they are being taken advantage of. These people stand out from everyone in Rutherford County. They always dress up and the women are very pale and wear a lot of makeup and tease their hair out really big. They mostly work at the church-owned businesses but some work at the makeup counter of the local Belks and at the courthouse. Most of the men work outside and have dark tans. You rarely see just one of them but if you do they have a cellphone in hand or are talking onit as they speak with you. They are always in groups whether its a work or at the local Wal-Mart buying groceries. Townspeople call them "Whaleys" because of the "blasting" techniques where churchmembers supposedely scream at you until you vomit, and also because of the leadsers of the church, Sam and Jane Whaley. Its sad that no one can do anything to expose the evils of the church. The leaders have so much of theie authority and influence here in Rutherford County it is impossible for anything to be done about it so far. | ||
| Anonymous |
I like the person from NJO was from New Covenant in wilmington, NC and I went to Spindale and lived there for 3 years- I have since then broken free from the church and now my own father who is still in the church in Wilmington will not even talk to me - it saddens me that they consider themsleves "Christian" but they disown anyone who leaves- I would be willing to talk with the person from NJO- if you are willing- I am coming to wilmington for christmas - if you want to get together | ||
| Anonymous |
My mother and sister are up there. They have been up there for 16 years it is very bad. Everything you read is true. Jane came to my hometown and did my dads funeral it was terrible. my dad was alsothere until he die in 1999. Jane told my mom he died because he didnt completly sell out and move up there. Jane also said she didnt know if dad went to heaven.She is a terrible person. | ||
| Anonymous |
I have a sister-in-law and two of her children down there. By brother and one child recently got out. This is not a church it is a cult!!! My family couldn't even come home for my dauther's funeral without a "guard". Then they told me I lost my daughter due to sin in my life. They need to be stopped. | ||
| Anonymous |
[quote] I like the person from NJO was from New Covenant in wilmington, NC and I went to Spindale and lived there for 3 years- I have since then broken free from the church [end qoute] I would like to talk to you, I was a 'New Covenant' ex-member who left in the early nineties Even though I left in the early nineties, pastor "S. Mc (now D.)" has to drive by my house everytime she heads towards the church. Every Sunday morning for well over ten years around 9:45 and Sunday evening around 5:30 like precision clockwork, they slow down and stop in front of my house for minutes while staying on the public street at a time to the point of waving cars that are behind them to drive around them. I have taken it as they stop and 'ra-ta-ta' their curses but my friends who have sen this in action have prayed to God to protect me with his Blood. Now, pastor "S. Mc (now D.)" has purchased a 2002 Cadillac Deville with the optional night vision lens (in a Deville without night vision, the Cadillac crest and shield is in the grille. In the devilles with night vision, the night vision camera goes where the crest and shield is placed on non-night vision models and the Cadillac shield and crest is a hood ornament that's how I know she has the night vision option). My friends and I are wondeing without known proof if she via the church is using the night vision feature of the Cadillac to try to spy around the homes of ex-members or if members leave the rumored 'commune homes' find them in the darkness of night. please e-mail me at totemtotemple@hotmail.com | ||
| Anonymous |
I wrote the post directly above me and I forgot to add the following paragraphs: #################### I have been sick before with extreme nausea for an entire month that the doctors and their tests could not find anything wrong with me. One night I was so nauseated that I was vomiting my own stomach acid out of me every two hours when I begin to pray with the gift of speaking in tongues. It was during this that I received a revelation that the church had placed a curse on me. So I spent over two hours in the most intense Godly warfare I had ever went through with sweats, increased nausea, and convultions rebuking the church's practices and binding the curse and sickness with the blood of Jesus and I reached a point after two hours where I felt the wind of God enter my room and enter into my body and the nausea instantenously left my body and the stomach acid no longer came upwards and I was so refreshed and filled in my Spirit. To this day I believe that they pray curses, sickness, disease, and death to those who leave. For after this session of true Godly deliverance, I believe without a shadow of a doubt that they placed a curse on me. But the Blood of Jesus broke it off of me. I give Jesus all the glory, honor, and thanks for his power to break the curse. I saw a friend the next day who noticed a glow in my face and he had to ask what had happened to me, so I told the story and he was impressed and rejoiced with me. ########################## New Covenant is now known among people who left as 'The New Coven' Yes, full of spiritual witches and physical bitches | ||
| Anonymous |
I have several friends who attend woff and several who used to and left. I have attended services at woff myself in the past. Not everything they do is wrong. As a matter of fact, they are right on in some areas, however they have lost sight of the truth in some areas and have gotten of into false doctrine. There is an element of strong control placed on people by Jane. I do believe some people need someone to help guide them because of strong areas of oppression in their lives, but there again, the choices we make every day are our own and the spirit of God deals with us and we have a free will to accept what thus sayith the Lord or reject it. It is not Jane's place to say when someone has heard from God. To anyone who may read this, please don't think, for one second, that all full gospel or charismatic believers are like the Whaley's or woff. Some of us are simply people who desire as close a walk with the Lord as we can have and interpret the scriptures to say that there are actual spiritual gifts for those who believe and receive them, that are intended to give us another weopen to fight the devil, not other christians. There are wonderful full gospel, charismatic, pentecostal,evangelical churches out there that are trying very hard to maintain a balance as they lead us to the throne of God through heart felt worship and godly direction. Remember even the people of woff deserve to be prayed for. They are deceived and blinded. "Where two or three should agree touching anything, it shall be done'MATT:18 so let's agree together that they too will come to the knowledge of the truth. It's not God's will that ANY should perish. Not even the people at woff. For all the terrible pain and spiritual harm any one has had to endure at the hands of misguided people, I ask you to forgive them and trust God to heal your hearts and lives. May god truly bless you and wrap his arms of Love around you. | ||
| Anonymous |
I live in Rutherford County. I know some of the people who go to the WOFF. They seem like good people. They do travel in groups and I've heard many horror stories. Pray that God expose the wrong and save the sincere. | ||
| Anonymous |
GO TO AVAILABLE LIGHT/ ARBORWOOD FORUMS TO GET INFORMATION FOR HEALING, TALK TO EXMEMBERS, AND FIND OUT THE LATEST REGARDING LAWSUITS ON WOFF AND SEVERAL OTHER MEMBERS, THE TRUTH IS COMING TO LIGHT AS GOD SAID IT WOULD!!!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
I experienced this cult first hand when they came to Word of Faith in Dallas. I have been trying to get custody of my daughter for a few years now and will continue to fight because she is God's child and she's worth it. These people are wrong and need our prayers. | ||
| Anonymous |
'Word of Faith" in Dallas Was this Robert Tilton's Church? Because Tilton is quoted in many articles years ago to have been blessed by the so-called 'deliverance' ministry of the Whaleys. In fact, that was how he met his second wife (now divorced) Leigh through the Whaley ministry. | ||
| Anonymous |
To the previous message, yes Tilton is associated with the Whaley's, praises them, and was married into their church.Sad, very sad, to know these people are nationwide and are poisoning so many. I have lived in Forest City my whole life and live only about 3 minutes from the church. if this isn't a cult, why can you not just walk into a church service without first meeting with jane and setting up an appointment.why do the members have to ask permission to go somewhere, to see their children, to have sex with their spouses?to see them at the baseball field for a church game, you would think they were attending a funeral. they never travel alone.they are never seen without makeup and teased hair.and the children, who i have seen personally, can only play frisbee outside, and swing at a low pace.going outside requires them to be in dress slacks and shoes.what is so sad about WOFF is that they are everywhere. they are even in our courthouse, thanks i believe to our sherriff, Dan Good. they have gotten out of every abuse case, auditings, and custody battle. they even run a day care without a license, and yet nothing has been done.i know there is abuse going on because i see it everytime i see a member.the stories of "blasting" and letting out the demons is true.their voices are hoarse,sometimes they even look if they are lacking sleep.jane whaley,the majority leader is a corrupt woman who has taken all of these people's money, homes, and dignity. they are forced to live 2,3, sometimes more families in a home. the children sometimes do not live with their parents.a parent cannot punish their child for something done wrong.jane or another leader is in charge.tell me why my hometown is letting this continue.it's all in money and a few political votes. | ||
| Anonymous |
I know of the Whaley's and their unbalanced church. For instance, one of their members who has since left the church would help abuse the children at WOFF. Why can't there be an investigation into all of WOFF? The children are being abused and no one will stop the Whaley's. Not is it only time to pray for the Whaley's but for people to speak out. | ||
| Anonymous |
To the poster who said not all of Jane Whaley and her church is bad ......... dosn't know what you are talking about I LIVED THERE ABUSE IS ABUSE IS ABUSE IS ABUSE | ||
| Anonymous |
the whaleys are evil and wicked people..and you are right abuse is abuse...we were members at the spindale church for several years, and i have to tell you that recovery from the things that happened to us there has been a very long and hard process. it takes time to get over the thought reforms, and the cult tactics to keep you there. | ||
| Anonymous |
i personally have come to believe that the only way for anything to ever be "done about the so-called church" is for the blinders to come off of those that follow jane whaley, the members of the church. we need to begin to pray that they would be able to see what is going on, and would find the courage to leave. that is the only thing that will ever stop jane whaley, unless she dies. the people need to stop giving their allegiance to this woman. | ||
| Anonymous |
Don't kid yourselfs, she sould go to prison for what she has done. | ||
| Anonymous |
yes, yes, yes, you are right she should go to prison for what she has done, but since she has soo many friends in soo many places, it would and will take a miracle that way,,the easiest way would be for her to just lose the following..another miracle..so??? | ||
| Anonymous |
I also use to live there and went to WOFF, I disagree with all of you who say it is abuse. Some areas are not understandable nor to your liking, but they are by far more better and less abusive then what is out there in the world today. For example you wouldn't think twice about letting your children go spend the night at a friends house, just to find out later in life that they were sexually abused. I guarantee you there is no sexual abuse or physical abuse used by Jane Whaley herself, she cannot control the others however who do live there. Althought she does try. But not to hurt anyone, but to keep anyone from getting hurt. You have got her all wrong and you have got it all twisted and backwards. We make wrong choices everyday, call it if you will mind control but at least they are not depressed, poor and unhappy, and if you see them they will do anything to help you, but not so you will join them, but because they want you to know what it is like to see the Love of God. I left because of my own rebellion, I did not want to stay because of my own personal reasons, but I would highly recommend them over anyplace else especially wellspring. And if you have children that you are concerned about that you do not want them to grow up not knowing if they will be alive due to gangs, drugs, etc I would suggest you take them there, they would be more than happy to help anybody. They don't want your money either. They just want to help you. Of course the Pharisees misunderstood Jesus too....Bunch of hipocrites as they were.... | ||
| Anonymous |
Hi folks. Spent 14 months at WOFF. Moved from the UK to be part of this radical church ( went through the proper channels, ie immigration, legally). Came with my wife and three children. Within the first 2 weeks I realised that this church was way out of balance. Jane Whaley wields her authority like a hammer. People do not fear God, they fear her wrath, everything that occurs within the confines of this 'Church' is governed and controlled by her. Their psychology is sutble, they preface everything by teling you that if you do not believe what they advocate, you have problems, because they speak as the oracles of God. They are very clichish, Jane has her inner circle, usually those from whom she can derive more power or influence,business owners, public officials, Even her Husband is under her spell, she is big on the emasculation of the male, all her key leaders are women, their spouses are tolerated. As for me and mine, they really went to work on my wife, getting her locked in to the regime. I played along as I knew that if I left I would lose my family. It took me 4 years to free everyone from the place. We are back in the UK now ( sad in one way because NC was a beautiful place). I wrote to Jane and told her how she holds everyone to a different standard that herself or her inner circle. That she was in major error and legalism. I heard through a friend who visited that she had taken my private letter and stormed through the church ranting about how I was the devil and was taking my family to hell etc. I felt sorry for her in a way, but I remembered the proverb 'a curse without a cause cannot sit'. In order to free my self and my family, I had to tell barefaced lies to leadership(long story), and then they made me repeat it in front of my kids (a terrible experience). When we reached Chichago O'Hare airport on the way home I told my family that we were never going back to that place again. The story continues back in the UK, when I was at work, they would phone the house and exhort my wife to leave me, empty our bank account and leave me in my rebellion and sin. This went on for several weeks. Because my wife and eldest daughter were so locked in they had a hard time, I constantly explained to them that they had freedoms that were being denied to them in WOFF. One day I came home from work to discover that they had been on the phone again. This time my wife said to them that enough was enough, 'They wanted me to leave you, I told them that I had made a covenant before God with you and that you had not done anything to break it'. She told them not to call any longer. It was a war of attrition on her, I prayed that God would show her. Now and with hindsight it is easy to see the methods and control being exercised. We are free and have had no further contact with the folks there. May I say, thers many genuine people, hungry for God to use them trapped in that place. As people who pray we need to pray that God would remove the scales from their eyes. When I have recounted my experiences of the time there to friends, they advocate me doing a book to warn others. Some of what I have seen and experienced, how people were treated, hurt and in cases made outcasts would be diffifcult to capture the emotion on paper. As to the last posting, it definitely is abuse, physically, mentally and emotionally. | ||
| Anonymous |
Hi. I am searching around for some meaning in my life? I believe I have a soul but i'm not sure and don't want to fall for crap. Any ideas? What is this all about? | ||
| Anonymous |
Yaagh, that is a chilling story. Such experiences are totally foreign and unknown to me. As I see it, the groups exert their control by the fact that the Christian religions mostly require an intermediary to pray to God. So where you said “they preface everything by telling you that if you do not believe what they advocate, you have problems, because they speak as the oracles of God.” Such a notion is totally foreign to me. I speak directly to God without an intermediary. | ||
| I Judge You!Jane Whaley |
I just saw the show on TV about the Church and Jane Whaley . This person needs to go to JAIL! The people thata attend this church are in serious need of help! | ||
| Anonymous |
It's sad that you believe everything you see on TV. Why you probably believed that horse Mr Ed could really talk to didn't ya. The media makes people believe what THEY want you to believe. Why don't you go there and see for yourself before you believe what other people including the media tells you. | ||
| Anonymous |
I also live in Rutherford County, and everything that has been said about the Whaley's & WOFF are most definitely true!!!! Jane & Sam live in a $300,000.00 home with pool and approx. 50 acres. They not only want and aquire your mind, they also want & aquire your money! The Inside edition story IS true. You must be a current member of this cult, to defend them this way. They obtained a fortune in OK. Then they came back home to obtain money and power. It makes me sick to know that not one thing has been done to stop these people or put them in jail, where they belong. She don't speak of God's word, she speaks of Jane Whaley's word.If this was a traditional church, the doors would always be open to the public. Not by the discertion of MS. Whaley | ||
| Anonymous |
I am related to Jane Whaley. I better than anyone would know if any of this is true or not. Well folk, IT IS !!!!!!!!! | ||
| TruthSearch |
I am on a mission to find out as much as i can about the WOFF. I saw a television expose' on the WOFF regarding two young adults who ran away together in search of freedom. I was shaken by this story. Innocent children being blasted, beaten and cut off from the outside world is not right. Something has called me to this and I have not been able to shake it. I feel like someone out there needs help and isn't going to get it unless people start enough trouble to END THIS. Jane and Sam Whaley need to be stopped. | ||
| Ryan C |
I too saw the story about the 2 running away to free themselves from over a decade of abuse. This is overwhelmingly appauling. I have looked for a website for their church so that I could send an email straight to the wench herself, but have found nothing. The gospels tell of Jesus' rage over the selling of goods at the temple, I can only imagine His reaction if Jane Whaley's "church" had been in his time. With a 17month old myself, I can't see allowing her to be abused in such a manner. She needs to be stopped, if not by the law, then a lightining bolt. | ||
| Anonymous |
To Truthsearch above: I went to that church for a short time, that young couple you saw on inside edition lied, I knew them both. They lied to get the money from inside edition to slander that church because they know that church is being scrutinized. I think the boy had to leave because he was caught with his pants down or trying to sell drugs at the church. I didn't know Jane very well but I don't think she tolerated that and he got upset because because she made him leave, I left shortly after that. But I know that girl also lied about the spankings. | ||
| Anonymous |
To Truthsearch and (Anonymous:25/May/2003 ) I to as a former attendee to the above 'church', can testify to the fact that young girls were spanked and spanked mercilessly, ( boys also) done to bring discipline and to break their rebellious nature. I had to watch helplessly as at times my own daughter was spanked for things that we would regard as children being children. Why did I not intervene, I would have been made an outcast and would not have been allowed to have any contact with my children. Being a foreigner in the US, residing under alien status, there were many avanues that were closed to me in terms of whistle blowing, which I cannot get into at this time. I was there when the Inside Edition tema arrived and it was in many ways like a conter invasion. The church mobilised, starting following the IE team around, set up 24/7 guards on the church watching and recording the movements of vehicles on Old Flynn Road. Obviously when these expose programmes are made, they look for the extremes and people interviewed will exaggerate, thats human nature. The point is, some of the children there were treated excessively if they resisted the restraints placed upon them. They were out to break their spirit and make them more easily controlled in the future. My advice to my children in secret( spouses and children were encouraged to inform on each other if people were showing independant thought or raising objections to what was going on), keep a low profile, play the game, avoid conflict becuse you will not win. This was the strategy I adopted to get my family out eventually. We are no longer in the US, but I keep update with sites like this. My family are all doing well, but we will never forget the experience and the psychological warfare we we were exposed to to make us into 'true ministers of God'. Make no mistake, we went there to be trained, to go to bible school ( never happened ), the school hardly operated. We went to follow God in a pure and zealous way, we never went to be controlled or brainwashed, to be confromed to a flawed image or to be dictated to or humiliated, pressured into something that God did not intend. We know that the majority of people who arrive, do so for the same reasons as we did. We spoke to them, we fellowshipped with them, we saw what they were becoming. automatons, no free will, no opportunity to express themselves, conforming to an image set up and controlled by the leadership. The people of God need to pray that those in this environment would see the truth of their situation and leave. So Truthsearch, this is just a small part of my experience, others will have a different perspective. We post things on this site anonymously, because, even though the church does not have a web site, those who attend have computers/internet and probably monitor these sites. They will even attempt to work out who we are, 'those apostates who have left and are going to hell'( a direct quote from the leadership). Keep logging on to this place, check out by searching for the church on Google, Mama, Jeeves search engines. You will certainly find out more that will cause you to be more informed maybe even more outraged than you are at present. | ||
| Anonymous |
On May 23,2003, I was in the court room in Rutherford County, where a precourt hearing was held to determine if DSS were going to take custody of some children who are being held in custody by the Coventon's of the WOFF church. Anyone could certainly tell by the clothes and the hairdos, which persons were associated. I overheard a conversation in which someone stated that the same person who is the accountant for WOFF, is the one who worked for Jimmy Bakker. Does anyone know if this is true. If so are the Whaleys and the Bakkers connected in some way? | ||
| TruthSearch |
This is to the person that responded to me, telling me of her experiance at WOFF. Thank you very much for sharing that with me. I guess that I'll begin by saying that I am not currently involved in a church, (mainly due to lack of QUALITY churches in my area) (Quality to me is people there for worship, not to gossip and cause people grief) I am however someone who tries to live my life the best way I can, and be the best person I can living by the way of the lord. I am 21 years old,female, I am normal and happy and have a life... but when I learned about the WOFF it was like something just came down on me and said PAY ATTENTION THIS IS IMPORTANT and now I think about it all the time. I started to research the WOFF right after that and the more I learn the more I feel drawn to it. I have never felt that God has had a calling for me or a purpose but I feel something inside of me that just knows it isnt right and even though I cant do anything to stop it myself.. maybe I am to be part of the effort towards that goal. I would like to stay in touch with anyone that has any information ... or anyone that just wants to talk. I'm here. | ||
| TruthSearch |
This is to the person that claimed that the Lacy was lying to get money. If you went to that church for A SHORT TIME and left... you have no idea what happened to her.. she was there for A LONG TIME you have no idea what that girl endured. Frankly I am suspicous of you since YOU (allegedly) left the church and now YOU are defending it. Are you sure your really not a CURRENT MEMBER?? Just checking, cause your story doesn't add up. ~~~TruthSearch | ||
| Anonymous |
my father and step mother were active members when my father died of colon cancer. one of the members is a doctor and treated my father i was told that when he operated on my pops that he decided that he wouldn't want to live with a colostomy bag so he didn't give one to my dad. he lived for about 7 months after diagnosis. i got to see him before he passed and was sickened. cancer is a horrible thing but it was NOT his fault. while i visited i went to church every day with them. i got a very wierd feeling in that church. i am raised catholic and have attened baptist, episcopal, and even morman services and have never seen the likes of Jane and her CLAN. talk to GOD through SOFTBALL??? what is that??? i love my stepmother and worry about her but don't know what to do. i think my parents left our hometown with around $100000 and i had to chip in to bury my father. my mom who divorced my dad when i was 3 helped pay for a headstone. HELLO!!!!!!!!! anyony think jane is still the leader of the greatest church on earth????? | ||
| Anonymous |
first i would like to say to the dumba$% that said that lacy is lying does not know what you are talking about not at all..all the kids are spanked for stupid stuff like not sitting still in their chairs, i was there for a long time and i have seen many of the children spanked and prayed over and basically jane never cared to shape childrens or for that matter adult wills, she only cares about breaking their wills, and i know that this is harmful to the children. i am sure that there are permanent emotional scars on the children there. | ||
| Anonymous |
So someone thinks the young man was selling drugs. Most be a bunch of druggies | ||
| Anonymous |
It's spelt DUMBASS not dumba$%. This person is a DUMASS | ||
| Buck Wheezer |
Please let me assure you that much of what you have heard about WOFF is absolutely true. But I will say for the sake of truth, some of it is not. I spent 4 1/2 years in WOFF in a position of leadership and then another 4 1/2 years in RFTN, NC, under WOFF persecution, due to counseling most of the people who left during that period of time. Some were so distraught they were contemplating suicide but yet I was attacked for trying to help them. I would like to make myself available to anyone who needs help in getting free and healed from this mess. | ||
| Buck Wheezer |
You can reach me at niceguy12345676543@yahoo .com | ||
| dvorah knowing |
Word of Faith Fellowship was first exposed in 1995 by worldwide coverage and Inside Edition... Better known as WOFF of Spindale NC (Rutherford County) they have drummed up much contrivercy and all that has been said about them is the truth and nothing but the truth... I was there for 7 years with my children... I was on the original Inside Edition taping of WOFF in 1995 and they all said the same thing about me, that I was paid thousands of dollars... That's a load of crap...!! Inside Edition doesn't pay anyone and anyone that says they do for this type of exposure is a liar from hell or a person in woff right now... Discussion can continue if interested dvorah5603@yahoo.com | ||
| Anonymous |
TWISTED SCRIPTURES by mary alice chrnalogar. It's worth the time and money. Do not be deceived anymore! | ||
| TruthSearch |
It seems to me that there are many people who have suffered at the hands of the WOFF, and many have escaped. But what about the people still there? What about the children? Whats going to happen to them? Who will help them? How do you bring down something as evil as Jane Whaley? People talk a lot, but who is ever going to DO something about it? The only people that can make a difference are those that are former members. Your testimony ... your account for their wrongdoings.. you standing up for those that can not help themselves. If I am mistaken then I am sorry. But if you do have the power to help then you should use it. ~~ Truth Search | ||
| Anonymous |
I was a member of an WOFF satellite church before I left. I have a friend who is in the ministry to homeless people. He is also on a citywide committee made up of various businessmen, ministers, etc. that look at homeless issues. He let me read one of their reports the other day that made mention of a project I assisted him on and I found out that the pastor of the WOFF affiliated church is on that same committee. That person however is not listed on that committee as a pastor but as the owner of a side business interests. My minister friend told me that this person is in the process of buying up low income housing via the business to use as 'communial living' while doing 'homeless evangelism and rehabilitation' while putting the homeless to work in the business interests. I hope and pray that the homeless people get really free from their addictions and homelessness in Jesus name for Jesus' glory from some other true Christian ministry like my friends instead of the 'blasting' and 'throw-up theology' from the WOFF affiliated church commune. | ||
| REVIVAL |
GOD IS SOVEREIGN JANE IS IN CONTROL SPARE THE CHILDREN | ||
| Anonymous |
Jane possesses the Spirit of Antichrist | ||
| Anonymous |
Jane IS the Antichrist | ||
| Sick of this County |
Rutherford County has been discussing the establishment of a zoning ordinance. It looks to me like Rutherford County officals should concentrate their efforts on this CULT and the abolishment of it, instead of trying to tell the good people of this co.on how to use the land that they paid for.And continue to pay for through the taxes that we pay.(outrageous taxes I might add)!!It is time that someone took a stand against these mind / money controling people! Unless of course, our county commissioners are a part of this cult! They sure do share alot of the same motives. (Control & Money)This cult makes me as ashamed of Ruth. Co. as our local government does.Where is the backbone in this County? Or has it died out with our old folks? | ||
| Anonymous |
I'm so glad to hear you say that....why not vote some of these people out? Also, why not join the protesters and let the people know how unhappy you are with WOFF? | ||
| jane whaley |
Dear sick of this county, I agree with you whole heartedly. This county is going to the pots. I would be glad to stand up a take a stand with you. You need to be a spokes person, because you make a whole lot of sense. Something that our county leaders are lacking of!!Any time you want to get a group together, just post it here. I am sure you will get a lot of response. If someone doesn't do something in this county soon, I will be forced to take up roots and leave this beautiful county. We need rid of this cult,we need rid of our current local government, we need jobs in this county and we need lower taxes. I also want to encourage everyone to cancel their subscription to the daily courier. This paper is nothing but full of crap! | ||
| Anonymous |
The Daily Courier full of crap?? The Daily Courier has been one of the best sources in exposing this aberrant group. | ||
| Anonymous |
I have been associated with the WOFF since the late 80's. I attended Seminars there periodically through the years. I ended up there in 1998 but left in late 2000. I know the individuals who have made news with their court cases in recent months. I left on my own accord and no, I wasn't tracked down and held back. I just left. Is this place a cult? With the mind control that the Primary leadership excertpts over this flock of people, then yes, it could be deemed that way. Is it a Jim Jones kind of thing? Absolutely not. These people believe they are serving God with all their hearts and to serve God is their true heart's desire. Most of the people that attend WOFF are sincere honest people who found themelves there because they were at the end of their rope and felt they had no where else to go. At least that's how it was with me. The organized churces of today have simply failed to meet peoples needs and have concentrated more on the entertainment value of church rather than the dealing with of one's own heart and soul. I harbor no hatred to anyone in that church, not even Sam or Jane Whaley. Do I belive in Jane Whaley's beliefs and the way the church is being run? Absolutely not. That is why I am not there. I have to believe that if God is God, then if it be his will, he can crush that church in one swift blow. He doesn't need the help of Rutherford Co DSS, The State of NC, nor The US Federal Govt, he can do it himself. It is his place to judge them not mine. There are many facets of WOFF that I do not agree with. I have never understood that if it is "Sam Whaley Ministries" Then why is Sam not running the church? Yes, I have a problem with everyone in that church having to Consult or to "Lock-In" with Jane on every little situation that comes up in their life. There is no freedom to worship as you please in that conduct. It's Jane's way or no way. Those are very serious issues, and I can understand the disdain for that, but this is America and if the WICCA can practice in New Bern, NC why can't WOFF practice in Rutherfordton, NC? I think they call that ahem...Freedom of Religion? I have done what I need to do when I disagree with such a church. I have removed myself from there and no longer am a part of that congregation and have gone on with my life. | ||
| revival |
There is no problem with freedom of religion here on the outside. Its like you stated, it does not happen inside the woffia. Families are turned against one another, children and adults abused, all this is done in the name of the Lord. I for one do not believe the framers had this kind of freedom in mind. They could have sat back and prayed and said God you take care of King George. But they did not. They took up arms against a tyrant and fought for FREEDOM and won. We all have a choice to make. I chose to fight and its not for selfish reasons. Its because I care about people. | ||
| Anonymous |
I agree with (Mr.) Anonymous above, I was there with you. I personally believe Sam doesn't run the church because he cannot run it as well as Jane can. I am pretty sure you can agree to that. I also have left the church and I think if people are really trying to help other people from being abused why are they focusing on a church instead of the wife beaters, drug dealers, maybe they should focus their attention at the prisons. I am not in agreement with a lot of things that go on with WOF and they did not chase me down either when I left. But also I am not in agreement with a lot of things that go on in other churches either, (read the paper) and I am not in agreement with things that go on in my job. But people are not telling the other side. The church did help me. Some things did go on that were not right. When I exposed them to Jane she did take care of it the honest way and she dealt with the Ministers that were not right. I will always admire Jane for this. But again I do not agree with everything Jane says or does. What I am trying to say is there is good and bad to everything. The only difference is the WOF is trying to make everything good and some of it maybe by manipulation. If it helps people to become better. I am sure that we can all give an example of how we are all being manipulated in the everyday world, like aren't some people trying to manipulate others into believing the WOF is bad and abused them? It is a form of manipulation to make others believe how bad they were treated, right? I am still better off by once joining and learning what I did than where I would have been if I had stayed in the condition that I was in. | ||
| revival |
Your blowing smoke. Go blow it some where else. | ||
| revival |
Jane is just making things good for her, that is the only thing she is interested in. The only time changes come to the woffia are when people that leave speak up about her twisted ways. Duct taping children to chairs, is this acceptable to you and (mr.) anonymous? | ||
| Anonymous |
No taping children to chairs is not acceptable, however as long as I was there which was a little over 10 years including seminars never once did I see or hear of such a thing. I never saw any child at the WOF ever taped to a chair. I use to even watch the children including the preschoolers, never did we tape the children or to be honest honey I don't believe I ever even saw duct tape on the premises! My goodness sweetie you do sound bitter! I disagree that the (only thing) Jane is interested in is making things look good for her. | ||
| revival |
I don't agree with you jane can't run the church better than sam. I witnessed jane run sam into the ground time and again to pump up her own ego. Sam made some mistakes but he is a far better minister than jane. Jane ordained herself and called it God. | ||
| Anonymous |
If you saw Jane run Sam into the ground time and again to pump up her own ego, then you probably are also a former member whom Jane gave correction to, and did not receive it. And that is where the bitterness comes in. It is not because you really care about other people. So then you should also know without a doubt that they are not duct taping or any kind of taping the children to the chairs, unless of course, you had your own roll, in your purse, one day as YOU were watching the children. Be honest you just hate Jane and you want to destroy her. Because she said something that you did not like. | ||
| revival |
Here is honesty. She is a liar and a charlatan. We will get to the truth about the duct tape, soon enough. She said many things I did not like. I am bitter and angry because the destruction of human beings contiunes in the name of Jesus, nothing more to it than that. | ||
| Anonymous |
So if you hate Jane and believe she is destroying human beings. Then anything someone says against her you will believe. And you continue along with them and trying to convert others into believing lies also. And then you get a whole group of people believing lies. Then some of these people go driving by the church and yell things, throw things and they do this all in front of the children is it because they are trying to help the children? because they too believe all that they have heard. And when someone comes along to tell you the other side, the good side you don't want to hear it. Jane does try to help those children look into the history of anyone of those childrens past, including school records, court records. And compare it to where they are at physically and emotionally now. Now that I do not go there anymore and I see these children of the people I work with I am convinced more than ever that those children at WOF are much better off. They do not have body piercing, tatoos. They don't have parents that go out to bars, or fighting. Better yet all I hear about now on the news is how the husband has killed his wife for another woman. Or a child has killed his parents and half his classmates. So what you want to remove these children from here to expose them to the kind of stuff that goes on in our world. No thanks. | ||
| revival |
I never said I hated her, but you could be right about that. From the things you have said I believe you are still in woff. I hear the same old doctrines, excuses, babble from you, justification for perverting the truth. I too spent many years there. I personally have spoken with many former members and what I have learned from them is not hearsay like the second hand trash we were fed from the pulpit. I have walked the walk. I stand by what I've said here Frankly what woff is teaching the children, religous bigotry disturbs me more than what somebody throws on the grass. About body piercing and tatoos. What does that have to do with being a believer? I do not condone or practice this and I do not condemn those that do. Ear and nose piercing was an acceptable practice in biblical times. Jesus had long hair, I did not hear you comment on that. I do not know if you are married or not, if not. How would you know what others (parents) were doing. In all the years I was there I was never allowed to be close to anyone there. My opinion on this is shared by many former members. Have you read (twisted scriptures)? | ||
| Anonymous |
I am the one that made the 23JUN03 0224am entry above. From reading this exchange between "Revival" and the other "Anonymous" it is clear that there are very differing opionions. That is great. That is what makes America what it is. We can voice those differences and opinions in a medium such as this. I can't vouch for everything that has ever happened at WOFF. I only can report to you what I saw when I was there. This Duct taping thing I keep hearing about; I never saw anything even remotely close to this when I was there. Children were always well cared for and loved with compassion. However, the media has played this thing just about to the hilt. Almost every newspaper article it seems cannot hardly write about the church without throwing that Duct-taping thing in there. Just for the record what is the documented evidence of this? I really would like to know. I can't say it didn't happen, I couldn't be at every place in that church 24/7 for the last 15 years or so. Therefore, I don't know! But I did not see it happen while I was there. I left on my own accord. The thing that helped me leave was something I refused to give up. The conviction of the Holy Spirit in my heart. Even from the first time I stepped into the church, there were certain things that did not seem right. However there were many things I believe were absolutely right and that I still believe that were/are absolutely right. Like anonymous above, I learned many things there that in my heart I know was truth. The problem is that the actions of the ministers that took place many times did not coincide with the scriptures or what was being taught. This is where conviction came into my heart. In the time I spent there I finally came to a a point to where I had to make a decision to either deny the convictions of my own heart and overlook what my Spirit was telling me was wrong or to listen to that discernement and leave. I chose the latter and have no regrets. Again, with the venom and obvious anger that you have for Jane; "Revival", You need to pray for God to deal with that in your heart. You were obviously betrayed and hurt deeply by her and that is very sad, but regardless of what she did to you, God demands that we forgive those who have done wrong to us and only he can work that forgiveness in our hearts, it's not in our own ability to forgive but you have to open your heart up and allow him to heal those wounds. Until you deal with the anger and bitterness in your own heart though, you will never be able to objectively look at or accurately judge anything that Jane Whaley is involved in. Again, there are many things Jane did that I do not agree with and I am not defending her by any means. She is accountable to God for all that she has/is doing, not me nor you. This is a free medium and you can say and do what you want. It's America, but if you are going to be effective in your fight; You have to be at peace and focused and I just don't see that right now. I see Hatred, Venom, Anger, vengenance and Outrage, which is about as far from Peace as you can get. Deal with the issues in your own heart then you can objectively talk about the error that is being done by others. There is fault at WOFF, that is why I am not there, but then again, show me a church that doesn't have faults. I haven't been to one yet that is perfect. We just choose as individuals what we can and cannot tolerate. We shake the dust off of our feet and go on down the road. If you choose to fight, then fine, but if it's peace of mind and heart you are looking for, you will never find it until you forgive those who have betrayed and hurt you. | ||
| revival |
I would like the other anonymous to expand on the following sentance from their last post. I do not understand it. Jane does try to help those children look into the history of anyone of those childrens past, including school records, court records. And compare it to where they are at physically and emotionally now. If both of you would pick a name it would help me to know which of you to respond to. How about madison. | ||
| revival |
To you anonymous from 6/23/03 1:05am I have a picture of a child tied to a chair. So I know it happen at woff. I know the reason was not for safety, this came to light from a former member that worked with the children and testified to it in court. As to the duct tape, as I said earlier, we will get to the truth about the duct tape, soon enough. Hide and watch. Are either of you anonymouses married and have children? I too believe it was the conviction of the Holy Spirit. That leaving was the right thing for me to do, it gave me the strength and courage to leave and stand up to her regardles of what could happen to me. Some people were able to just walk away, most that I know, could not. I believe you are spouting whaley doctrines here. Such as (Deal with the issues in your own heart then you can objectively talk about the error that is being done by others). You sound like a con-man hard at it in your last post. She is in error and leading others into error, the very people you call your bothers and sisters. People have been hurt physically and emotionaly, this does not seem to bother you. Selah. To find proof of the abuse all you have to do is look at the findings of fact from the mcgee custody case. Perhape you can point out to me what you saw as fault with the woffia. I would like to know. | ||
| Anonymous |
Jane does try to help those children look into the history of anyone of those childrens past, including school records, court records. And compare it to where they are at physically and emotionally now. I believe this is what you are referring to. What I am saying here is that many people, including children, come from all sorts of backgrounds. Most of them abused either by parents or themselves. Jane or WOF does not have to take in any of them. But they do take in anyone who wants help. If you were to take a snapshot of what there life was like prior to them coming to WOF and then what there life is now, it would be a complete change and for the better. As far as this question: Are either of you anonymouses married and have children? This should have no bearing on what we are trying to help you with. We were there with you at WOF, we are no longer there because we did not agree with everything that was said or done. Whether I made the right decision by leaving? I do not know. I know that I do not want to go back and I do not plan on going back. I can not speak for (Mr.)Anonymous I would personally never tell you any fault that I found at WOF because it was my opionion for one and two you are the kind that would twist it like you have been doing with my other messages. But there is hope and there is help if you would just understand what (Mr.) Anonymous above is trying to tell you | ||
| Yaakov |
]regardless of what she did to you, God demands that we forgive those who have done wrong to us and only he can work that forgiveness in our hearts, it's not in our own ability to forgive but you have to open your heart up and allow him to heal those wounds. And what about Jane? If she did wrong to him, shouldn’t Jane make it up to him? You can’t have forgiveness without restitution. If Jane never expressed any remorse or restitution from the person that she wronged, then she has no God-given right to expect forgiveness for her mistakes. | ||
| revival |
Are either of you anonymouses married and have children? This is a fair question. People were treated differntly. I know what Mr. A is saying regarding forgiveness. | ||
| revival |
You say u found fault with woff. How have dealt with it? | ||
| Anonymous |
I let it go, like (Mr.) Anonymous said above that God will deal with Jane. Again these are in my opinion. I may be the one at fault. The reason I am saying this is because I am referring to the scripture where God says "My ways are not your ways". I disagreed with some of the things Jane said. But I do not harbor on it. I saw more good at that church than any of the other churches that I went to. I heard Jane preach more truth at that church than I have ever heard at the other churches that I went to. My life would not have changed at all if I had not gone to WOF and either would my family or friends. Because that word that Jane or some of the other ministers give sometimes is hard to hear and it hurts. But while it pierced my heart, I also allowed it to changed my life. Now on the things that I did not agree on didn't pierce my heart, didn't change my life. I disagree with but I am not going to attack them for it. They gave me much more than I ever gave them. But there is one thing that I cannot live with and I am not going to tell you what it is. I have told Jane. And it is where I just walked away. No bitterness, just gratefulness for the time that I was there. And grateful for what I learned. And you know what Revival? I am praying for you, I thought about you all day today. I really pray you let what (Mr.) Anonymous tried to tell you go to your heart. And I prayed that God gets to my heart also. Your bitterness doesn't hurt Jane, it attacks you and your relationship with God. | ||
| revival |
How can you let the fault go, the scriptures tell you how to handle this. I am not hear to correct the good, I'm here about the fault or bad things that happened at woff. Jane thinks she is above being in error. Because of her hardness of heart and stubborn rebellion the attacks come at her. As I said she has done some really nasty things to people and I will not turn my back on this. I have prayed for years asking Jesus to help me with the bitterness and I have given it up to him. But this does not change how I feel about what Jane is doing to harm people. It needs to be stopped. Jane needs to acknowledge her sin and repent. Also about perfect churches, your right about that. The apostles spent there lives teaching the early churches, they (the churches) were not perfect. But you know Jesus still loved them and cared about them. God did give us freewill. The church was not meant to be his gestapo. I go to a church that is very similar to woff but the pressure of control is not there, and it has been a wonderful experience for me.I teach children in an awanna's class and take great joy in what I do and no, I am not perfected yet but still working on it. | ||
| Anonymous |
Did Paul have hardness of heart and stubborn rebellion that attacks came at him? What Jane has done that is so nasty to people may just be how you perceived it. Meaning we have been raised in a world where we are free to choose (so we think). Because in the end that choice that we made we determine our final destination. So since we are free to choose, we are not about to let anyone step on our toes, even if it is for our good. I remember when I was young, my parents trying to tell me what to do, I thought they were mean and didn't have a clue what was going on. So I left home. I did not hold it later against my parents, in fact when I look back on it, they were pretty much right. What is that freewill that God gave us? Because as Jane teaches and has pointed out in the scriptures, "we were born to serve Him". So help me to undestand this if I was born to serve Him, how do I have a freewill? And expect to go to be with Him after I leave this earth? It would be false for Jane to aknowledge her sin and repent. Especially if she believes with all her heart she is doing the right thing and hearing from God. And I don't believe you have given up that bitterness at all to God. I just wanted to let you know that there are some good things that go on at WOF, not just all the bad that you are trying to make the rest of the world believe. And you can't even accept that! It's not my place to point out fault, if I am not for sure in God's eyes that I am the one right. You are ready to shoot the person before you can weigh the facts to determine the truth. You go strictly on your own personal judgement. What sounds good to you, or whoever else that wants to attack WOF. I never thought I would get on here to defend Jane, I know she does not need my help. But I can see without a doubt why you are no longer there! You probably did not leave on your own accord either did you? | ||
| revival |
Jane is no comparision to the apostle paul. Delusions of grandeur. Paul made tents, jane makes money. Your right grabbing a young lady by the neck and leaving marks (choking her) could be contrued as an act of love. Taking advantage of a woman to steal her children. Lying about the people that have left. I see your point. Only I can find no place in the bible were the true apostles engaged in this kind of love. Did Jesus have freewill? Did he not go though the temptations of the devil? Did God the father allow it? If he too was born to serve than why the temptations. I already said I'm not here to discuss the good things about woff. The EVIL overshadows the good. You can do this if you please, after all you have a freewill. I've been to court with this bunch. I no who and what they are. I know the facts. It's not my place to point out fault, if I am not for sure in God's eyes that I am the one right. But I can see without a doubt why you are no longer there! Who are you to hold me in judgment about bitterness and the reasons I have taken a stand against false doctrines. I believe with all my heart that what is going on at woff is wrong and needs to be stopped. I find some of your statements hypocritical. Have you gotten any counseling. You are right, I did not leave of my own accord. I and the Holy Spirit were in one accord on that point. | ||
| REVIVAL |
THE ONLY THING NECESSARY FOR THE TRIUMPH OF EVIL IS FOR GOOD MEN TO DO NOTHING. EDMUND BURKE | ||
| Anonymous |
Edmund Burke?....What does the Word of God say about that? | ||
| Anonymous |
Has anyone heard about this group of people (I can't call it a church) buying up allot of weapons or is it just hersay? I just feel when this thing does end it won't be for the good of God. | ||
| REVIVAL |
I've heard the leaders have been training and stock piling weapons for years. | ||
| REVIVAL |
PERHAPES YOU CAN ENLIGHTEN ME AS TO WHAT THE WORD OF GOD HAS TO SAY. | ||
| Anonymous |
Revival has probably been hearing it because that is where it started. In your mind. | ||
| REVIVAL |
It started when the great jw empowered several members of leadership to carry firearms inside the cult, to protect her. She was FEELING a little insecure after some members would not bow to to her terror tactics. | ||
| Anonymous |
I have been following this forum for a while, it is very interesting. I have a question for Revival. You wrote on June 25th that you go to a church almost the same as woff but the pressure of contol is not there. Where is that church? I knew someone who use to go to woff a long time ago. | ||
| Ms. Anonymous |
I would like to own a mansion with lots of acreage and have servants at my disposal! WOFF members, send me your money and let me control your mind for awhile! Share in the Glory. Don't let Sam & Jane have it all! | ||
| REVIVAL |
If I were to post the name of the church, than I most certainly would have visitors I do not wish to see. Would not want to spoil a good thing. | ||
| Benjamin Talley |
I escaped a few months ago along with two other teens. I was mentally and physically abused in the church. Before I left, we were bravely passing notes that had "scare tactics?" or song lyrics that we had picked off our secret radios. We were caught and prosecuted, though, but we didn't care. Over the years my friends and I would be expelled out of school for things like talking without another minister listening or laughing with another student. We would be out of school for one or two months, doing nothing but watching Jane Whaley tapes. In fact, one class of five boys was detained from school for a year doing nothing but watching tapes and reading their Bibles When we left the church, we were told that we were leaving God and that we were going to hell.On top of that, we were denied our school records and are still being denied. This pseudo-power organization must be stopped. | ||
| Anonymous |
Ben, How are you doing now? Do you have strong family support? I know someone who has escaped this church yet still wrestles with guilt over some of the doctrine that was shoved down her throat. Guilt is a huge emotion and a powerful weapon that WOFF uses. It's unfortune that while WOFF can teach some correct doctrine (in my opinion), they attack anyone with a brain that questions some of their theories. Freedom of thought is absolutely not allowed in their forum, hence unless you allow them to control every aspect of your life and lose all sense of self, you cannot survive there. This is the "cults" biggest mistake. Ben, my advice is this should you choose to listen, keep faith and don't focus solely on the anger - deal with the anger and betrayal - for it needs to be dealt with, please don't allow WOFF to destroy your relationship with God. They, regardless of their belief, are not in control. God and only God is. May God bless you and heal your wounds. Best of luck to you and your friends. | ||
| ben |
I'm doing great. I kept my individual personality the whole time I was there, while they struggled to take it away. | ||
| Revival |
Benjamin, I am greatful to God for you that you were able leave the temple of doom. I would like to invite you and any genuinely concerned person to join me and other former members on the Arborwood forum. Please go to your seach page and type in arborwood forums, word of faith fellowship. This should bring you to the forum. You will have to go through the administator to gain access, he is trying to keep out spies. Please stop in and say hello, there are many who remember you and there is lots of info. Perhapes you could contribute some info. that would help those of us who have been out for a while understand what is taking place at this point in time. May GOD bless you. | ||
| Revival |
To the anonymous poster of the message dated Sunday, June 22, 2003 - 03:24 pm http://www.thedigitalcourier.com/articles/2003/07/22/news/news03.txt Digital Courier 7/22/03 Complaint filed in WOFF case case From staff reports RUTHERFORDTON -- A woman who retained custody of her stepson last week despite a challenge from the boy's aunt who is a member of the Word of Faith Fellowship has filed a complaint with the Rutherford County Sheriff's Department alleging kidnapping and child abuse. On Monday, deputies met with prosecutors in the District Attorney's office and agreed to conduct interviews this week before deciding what charges, if any, will be filed, said Chief Deputy C. Philip Byers. The complaint from Kimberly A. Worley of Tampa, Fla., alleges her stepson was taken to the Spindale-based church without authority from November 2000 until March 2003. "While there, he was taped (to) a chair, struck with wooden objects (and had) his mouth, arms and legs taped down on many different dates," states the narrative in the complaint. The case stems from a custody dispute involving the boy's uncle Gene Worley and Gene's estranged wife Denise. Last Thursday, Kim Worley won a court case brought by Denise Worley in an attempt to bring the child back to Rutherford County. | ||
| Anonymous |
Was there anything in the article about while he was there that they saw Elvis? | ||
| Anonymous |
To Anonymous July 22,2003 07:26 pm, You only see Elvis, if Jane tells you that you have saw Elvis.You people's minds must be made of mush, the way you let her control you! Wake up, she is not the Messiah!!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
Revival, I tried to go into Arborwood and could not find a forum. Is it still there? I'm the one that posted to Ben on the 22nd. | ||
| Anonymous |
Sorry Revival it was the 21st that I posted to Ben. I'ld like to go to the Arborwood site to check it out. Thank you. | ||
| Revival |
TRY THIS: GO TO yahoo and type in { arborwood forums word of faith } The #1 search result is the correct one. | ||
| Revival |
About elvis, yes there is. Jane has claimed to be in contact with him on a regular basis, how bout u. | ||
| Revival |
About Elvis. He's dead, get a life. | ||
| Anonymous |
To Benjamin Talley posted on July 21, 2003 Ben is it true that they tape you to the chairs? | ||
| Ben Talley |
I have never been taped to a chair in the physical sense. I stayed in the "chair" most of the time because I knew that it would make it easier to continue life that way rather than resisting. I saved my resistence until I got older. And Jane must have mentioned Elvis before she outlawed talking about celebrities and entertainment. | ||
| Anonymous |
Ben, what I meant to ask is it true that they tape the children to chairs? You know what the article above is saying. | ||
| anonymous |
My friend FM fled from the Whaleys, because of the abuse that was there. She joined the Whaleys bible group in Tusla about 20 years ago and followed them to NC. Her personality changed so much that we did not know her anymore. Everything she would look at would be evaluated to see if it had a demon. Christian music was also criticized that demons were present. She was very bitter and arrogant. This friend used to be fun to be around, but after being with the Whaleys it became impossible to talk to her. She had to inform JW as to her whereabouts and if she did go anywhere she had to have another person go with her at all times. If they did not they were told about it. On her return to NC from Phoenix, she was abandoned at the airport for not going through JW first. JW watched them like a hawk and punished them in an emotional and pyschological way. | ||
| Ben Talley |
I never saw a child taped to a chair, but I definately seen them pinned to a chair by leadership. This is not in the dark, in church, Jane openly professed "doing things that would blow peoples minds" to their children. In one instance, she told one woman when she was "manifesting" "why don't you ride your broomstick?" I'll post more later on the subjact. | ||
| Revival |
Ben, as much as I would like to know details, it would be better for you to save this info. for your lawyer and the courts. My thoughts and prayers are with you and I hope all is well with you. May Jesus be with you and your family always. | ||
| Revival |
FM has been a blessing to all. THANK YOU!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
I was at every service you were at. I left...... Escape with two other teens???? I was told you left in the middle of the nite with your brother. You did quite a number on your mother, huh? You lied about Jane. She never said those things in any service we were in and you know it. Where did you get that?? Get a grip!!!! Get a life!!! | ||
| C LEIGHTON |
I HAVE EXPERIENCED THE CHURCH FIRST HAND MYSELF. THEY ARE HEAVY IN THE CONTROL AND THEY LIKE TO USE THE WORD REBELLION VERY FREELY. ACCORDING TO THEIR BELIEFS. WE ARE ALL FULL OF IT. EXCEPT THEM OF COARSE. THEY DO SEPERATE FAMILIES INTO DIFFERENT HOUSEHOLDS RATHER THEN WORKING WITH THEM AS A WHOLE. YOU HAVE TO GET PERMISSION ON EVERYTHING YOU WANT TO DO (EXCEPT CHURCH FUNCTIONS)AND THEY ARE BIG ON SUBMISSION. THEY ARE MISSING A LARGE FACTOR IN THE WHOLE THING. THAT IS JESUS CAME TO SET US FREE. EVERYTHING WAS COMPLETED ON THE CROSS AND EXCEPTED BY GOD THE FATHER. JESUS WAS THE LAST AND ONLY SACRAFICE GOD HAS EXCEPTED. THE LAST WORDS FROM JESUS WAS "IT IS FINISHED" THAT MEANS DONE, COMPLETE, OVER, AND EXCPTED. WE NEED TO EXCEPT IT ALL OURSELVES BY FAITH AND LIVE AS GOD WOULD SEE US TO LIVE. SO WHAT IS THERE PURPOSE OF CASTING OUT DEVILS IF YOU ARE A BORN AGAIN BELIEVER?? YOU EITHER EXCEPT WHAT JESUS DID AS A WHOLE OR YOU DONT. HOW CAN DEMONS DWELL WHERE THE HOLY SPIRIT DWELLS?? THEY CANT. LIGHT AND DARKNESS DONT MIX AND GREATER IS HE THAT IS IN YOU THEN HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD. SATAN IS OF THIS WORLD. JESUS DWELLS IN EVERY BELIEVER. IF THESE CHURCH MEMBERS WOULD READ THERE BIBLES AND START LISTENING TO THE HOLY SPIRIT AND NOT "MAN" THEY WOULD SEE FOR THEMSELVES AND I ASSURE YOU THEY WOULD DEPART FROM THE WHOLE SOAP OPERA THAT IT IS TURNING OUT TO BE. YOU DONT LOOK TO MAN FOR ANSWERS. YOU LOOK TO YOUR HEANENLY FATHER. WHO KNOWS YOU AND LOVES YOU UNCONDITIONALLY. THANKS TO JESUS WE HAVE IT ALL ONCE AGAIN. WE JUST NEED TO BELIEVE AND RECIEVE ALL THAT HE HAS DONE FOR US. THE LAST THING JESUS TOLD US TO DO WAS TO WALK IN LOVE. STUDY THE WORD LOVE AND YOU WILL SEE THAT IT HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH CASTING OUT DEVILS OR OTHER FOLLIES THAT PEOPLE ARE DOING. THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO GET TO HEAVEN EXCEPT THROUGH JESUS CHRIST. THE SON OF GOD. GOD IS MOVED BY OUR FAITH IN HIM. WE CAN ONLY HAVE THIS ONCE WE EXCEPT HIS SON. OUR SACRAFICE, OUR SAVIOUR, OUR ANNOITED ONE, OUR BROTHER. SO TELL ME AGAIN WHY THESE MEMBERS ARE STILL THERE?? JANE DIDNT DIE FOR YOU. JESUS DID. STOP ASKING GOD TO FORGIVE YOU FOR SOMETHING YOU WERE ALREADY FORGIVEN FOR. YOU ARE MAKING THE CROSS OF NO AFFECT IN YOUR LIFE WHEN YOU DO THAT. ALL BELIEVERS ARE COVERED BY THE BLOOD OF JESUS. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY GOD CAN LOOK UPON US. IS THROUGH THE BLOOD OF JESUS. IT WAS HIS SACRIFICE THAT GOD EXCEPTED. NOT OUR OWN SACRIFICES. SALVATION IS A GIFT FROM GOD UNTO ALL MEN WHO WANT IT. NOT BY OUR DEEDS. BUT BY RECIEVING HIS SON. THAT IS WHY HALF THOSE PEOPLE ARE A MESS IN THEIR MINDS. WHEN YOU RECIEVE JESUS THE BIBLE CALLS YOU A NEW CREATOR. OLD THINGS ARE THE PAST. WHY DO WANT TO CONTINUALLY RESSURECT A DEAD MAN??? WHEN YOU RECIEVE JESUS AS YOUR LORD AND SAVIOUR HE TAKES OVER YOUR LIFE FROM THAT POINT ON. HE IS THE GREAT TEACHER. HE WILL SHOW AND GUIDE YOU BY HIS SPIRIT. THE SPIRIT OF TRUTH. THE TRINITY WORKS TOGETHER. THE FATHER, SON AND HOLY SPIRIT. THEY DONT EVER DISAGREE. THEY ALWAYS WORK IN UNITY WITH EACH OTHER. EVEN WHEN WE SLIP UP. GOD HIMSELF SAYS "IF YOU REPENT?" "HE IS FAITHFUL AND JUST TO FORGIVE" HE THROWS IT INTO THE SEA OF FORGIVENESS AND REMEMBERS IT NO MORE. IF HE REMEMBERS NO MORE THEN WHY ARE YOU REMEMBERING IT?? ARE YOU MIGHTER THEN GOD?? I THINK NOT. SO MOVE ON AND CONTINUE YOUR SPIRITUAL WALK WITH HIM. IF THIS CHURCH IS DOING ALL THAT IS BEING SAID. THEN SOMETHING SHOULD BE SAID AND DONE ABOUT IT. BONDAGE IS A TERRIBLE PLACE TO BE AND GOD DOES NOT WANT HIS PEOPLE IN BONDAGE. I HOPE THIS "LEADERSHIP" CAN JUSTLY STAND BEFORE GOD ON JUDGEMENT DAY. I HOPE THE COURTS AND ALL THE POLITICS CAN STAND BEFORE GOD AND PASS THE JUDGEMENT. GOD IS A JUST GOD AND HE IS A GOD OF TRUTH AND INTEGRITY. I HOPE THAT THERE IS NO BLOOD FOUND ON ANY ONES HANDS ON THAT DAY OF JUDGEMENT. THE ACCOUNTABILITY IS GREAT AND WILL BE JUSTIFIED BY GOD HIMSELF. LET NO ONE FALL SHORT OF THAT. FOR THOSE OF YOU WHO HAVE BEEN WOUNDED OR HURT. I WOULD RECOMMEND TO YOU THIS: LET JESUS HEAL AND RESTORE YOU. DONT GIVE UP ON YOUR FAITH IN HIM. DONT GIVE UP ON YOURSELVES. LET THE HOLY SPIRIT MEND YOUR SPIRIT. JUST SIT STILL AND SUP WITH YOUR FATHER. HE LOVES YOU LIKE NO OTHER. EVEN IF YOU WERE THE LAST LIVING SOUL ON EARTH. GOD STILL WOULD HAVE SENT JESUS FOR YOU. DONT LET NO ONE OR ANYTHING ROB YOU OF THAT ONE BLESSING. I SPEAK TO YOU FROM EXPERIENCE. I HAD SO MUCH GUILT AND CONDEMNATION ON ME FROM THAT GROUP OF PEOPLE THAT I WAS SO HOPELESS. THEN JESUS REACHED OUT TO ME AND TOUCHED MY LIFE AND MENDED AND HEALED MY BROKENESS. IT WAS NOT NO "MAN" IT WAS JESUS MY SAVIOUR. IT WAS AT THAT POINT IN MY OWN LIFE THAT I LEARNT NOT TO TRUST IN NO "MAN" BUT TO TRUST IN GOD HIMSELF. MY HEAVENLY FATHER. JESUS THE LOVER OF MY SOUL. TILL THIS DAY. I AM THAT WAY. I ASK MY FATHER IN HEAVEN EVERYTHING I NEED TO KNOW. EXCEPT WHAT JESUS DID FOR YOU AND BE THANKFUL FOR IT AND YOU WILL BE ON THE START OF A NEW LIFE WITH HIM. READ YOUR BIBLE FOR YOURSELF. SEE WHAT GOD HAS TO SAY AND ALL HE HAS FOR YOU. LOOK AT THE POSITIVE SIDE OF THINGS. EVERYDAY IS A NEW DAY WITH GOD. RELAX IN HIS CARE AND ENJOY LIFE WITH A SMILE. HAVE CONFIDENCE IN YOURSELF BECAUSE OF JESUS. LET HIM ALWAYS BE YOUR FIRST LOVE. TALK WITH HIM. BE REAL WITH HIM. LET HIM GET INVOLVED IN YOUR LIFE AND I GUARANTEE YOU THAT YOU WILL BE THE HAPPIEST PERSON ALIVE. YOUR TEARS WILL NOT BE BITTER. THEY WILL BE SWEET. LET HIM TOUCH YOU TODAY. KEEP YOUR EYES ON HIM AND YOU WONT GO ASTRAY. JESUS IS THE REASON WHY WE HAD YESTURDAY AND WE HAVE TODAY AND HE IS OUR REASON FOR TOMORROW. GOD SAID IN THE END THERE WILL ONLY BE ONE TRUE CHURCH. I BELIEVE THAT IS THE PEOPLE WHO KEPT THEIR EYES ON JESUS AND NOT THAT OF "MAN" GOD SAID SET NO FALSE IDOLES BEFORE ME. IT IS A COMMANDMENT. SO DONT DO IT. | ||
| Anonymous |
AMEN!! Well said C. Leighton! | ||
| Redstar |
Hello to all, I am a producer currently doing research for a documentary on christian cult survivors. I have been following the WOFF for a while now, and am looking for some former members to speak with about their experiences. If you have had first-hand experiences with the WOFF, contact me at Redstar_Films@yahoo.com if you'd like to share your story. -MD p.s. Please rest assured that I'm not a "spy" or a "plant" from WOFF or any other organization; anyone who wants more information on me, I will be happy to provide it. | ||
| Anonymous |
Redstar how will you determine fact from fiction? | ||
| Benjamin Talley |
To the writer of the message on Sunday, July 27. You don't have to be afraid of anyone and you don't need to even try to defend the church. When I first left the church, I felt the same way you do. But then I realized " Why did I leave in the first place?" Because I knew that things wern't right in the church. Why do people leave in the middle of the night? Well look at it this way, in normal life, are not people allowed to make their own decisions? But in the church, if one decides to leave, they are subjected to a massive guilt trip and loud prayer, most the time against their will. In normal life, one could decide to not attend a church without much stir. In the church I am going to now, the pastor is losing people. But is he pouting-no! Although I escaped by a different means than the other two teens, we were in touch about our plans as friends should be, and we planned it together. Did not the other two leave in the night too? And by the way, how could you not have remembered anything Jane said. | ||
| Redstar |
To Anon: through research and fact-checking, of course. | ||
| Anonymous |
To Redstar for example there have been numerous claims per revival, about duct taping the children, claiming even that they have a picture. Now there are others that have been going there for many years, greater than 10 and been in the nursery that have never heard or witnessed such a thing. How would you determine fact checking on that? How would you even research that also? Because you have many people that although they have left the church they are and I know for a fact making up stories. These people are bitter because of the way they felt they were treated was not right. So they want to come back and attack other that are still in the church. Are they in themselves not also considered a cult? And there is a small handfull who are speaking the truth. Are you going to ask WOFF to be involved with this research also? Do you want the facts based on the Bible or peoples hurt and bad feelings towards Jane? I no longer go there but I am not seeking out to destroy the members that do go. There is still a lot of good that comes out of that church. If you want to weigh the good vs the bad, I am positive the good will out weigh the bad. But do you really want the facts or are you out like the others just to determine based on peoples opinions and bad feelings, that they are a cult and you want to destroy them? | ||
| Redstar |
Anon, I am not out to "destroy" anyone or anything; I'm a professional documentarian and have been for many years, I would not get far in this business by being reckless with facts or making unsubstantiated allegations. I would welcome any input from members past or present; the public wants both sides of the story, not just hyperbole. We would love to sit down & talk with Mrs. Whaley; however, in the past, I have found people in her position quite reluctant to do so. We shall see. | ||
| Anonymous |
To Anonymous Word of Faith stooge of July 29, if you like word of faith so much , why didn't you stay? I believe you still are a member and are one of jane's stooges. Word of Faith is a satanic cult. Satan has many ways to infiltrate the christian heart and this is one and a very destructive way. No one should let anyone else stand between them and God. That is only Christ's position. No one should ever think that someone else is closer to God than others. Only God knows our hearts. No one speaks for God. That is the Holy Spirit's role. Jane is a control freak in the extreme. She needs God to free her from this bondage. Christ commanded us to love our neighbors and spread the gospel. This so called church does neither. It destroys marriages, abuses children, enslaves children of God and performs satan's role, perverting God's word. Shame on you for your lies. My marriage was destroyed by that witch and my child was abused. I speak from experience. Ever since Christ has spoken the Word to us satan has perverted it. And fools fall for the trap. The Christ walk is a narrow path. Not the worldly path, not the religious path. Both are evil and can cost one their salvation. Get back to the simplicity of Christianity. Don't add or subtract from the bible. Let the the Holy Spirit guide you. Not a controlling, greedy, evil false prophet. This is not how Christ intended us to live. Satan let our people go!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Anonymous |
To Anonymous Tuesday, July 29 11:08 pm: I believe you still are a member and are one of jane's stooges. This is because you do not know fact from fiction! And based on your bitterness because your marriage was destroyed, I believe you will only believe the bad not any of the good. You only see bad. I did not say it was all good. I said the good out weighed the bad. As far as your marriage it was probably on its way out the door anyway. Some people believe there children are abused because they don't give them what they want. | ||
| Revival |
Get your act together. Hear are some facts for you, to date one child has come forward about being taped to a chair. Fact, the picture I have is real and features a child tied (not taped)to a chair, it was presented in court and its authenticity went unchallenged. I would be happy to supply redstar a copy of it. Fact in the mcgee custody case the testimony of three (than current members) was found to be not credible. Fact, all former members testimony was found to be credible or the crediblity did not come into question. Fact, I was there when jw designated several members to carry firearms. She even used the names. My only purpose is to have the truth about the woffia. My goal is not to destroy as you have stated and not to weigh the good vs. the bad but, to expose the truth. I have not singled out any one person to attack. But, I do hold jane responsible for what has taken place after all she claims to hear God. Based on court findings and my personal experiences with the woffia, they are not a healthy group. To date you have offered nothing to show that the woffia is a healthy group. | ||
| Redstar |
Revival, Please write me at the address listed if you can. | ||
| Revival |
Redstar, having problems e-mailing you. Message said your address is not valid. | ||
| Redstar |
Odd...try redstar_films@yahoo.com -Thanks! | ||
| Revival |
As far as your marriage it was probably on its way out the door anyway. What a stupid thing to say! | ||
| Revival |
Where is the good? Bring it on! Tell us without the spin. | ||
| Anonymous |
I already have, but you have not wanted to hear the good, I wrote all the messages above but you have refused to listen. One more thing I would like to add is that little boy in that newspaper article, (Ben can back me up on this)when I use to go there I remember what he came out of, meaning what type of home life he had before he came to live with his aunt. To make my point in telling you about the good, I knew what family he was living with while at WOFF, they were probably the best thing that ever happened to that boy. What he had before he came to WOFF was abuse, after he came to WOFF was not abuse but he found love. That is why a lot of other children (not all) do not want to leave the WOFF. Although some do such as Ben. But a lot of children had a taste of what was out there in the world and they did not want it(they saw it in there parents) they wanted to live a life learning to know God. How can you say that is bad? I have read the Bible over and over and I do not see at all where God is lean in his judgement. The Word of God says the path is very narrow. And that is all Jane is trying to help people live is a very narrow path. And yes many get offended. Many got offended at Jesus and we do not understand that either do we? Again Jane is not Jesus but she is not hurting people she is doing her best, the way she believes God is telling her to help these people. Once more if Redstar really wanted to know the facts he would interview people of what there life was like before WOFF, including the childrens parents what there life was like before WOFF, what it was like during and now what it is like after for those who have left. I remember what my life was before I went to WOFF and I am grateful for all that Jane has done for me during the time I went there, along with all the other Ministers who helped me, and I believe with all my heart they would still help me if I went back. But take a look at maybe these childrens parents lives before the children or parents went to WOFF, what was there life like? Ben what was your life or mom's life like? Was it the best place at the time for you? was it the best place at the time for your mom? Did they not teach you values more than you would have learned anywhere else? I am not there anymore, and I do not want to go back, but I will not ever agree with anyone that they are a bad church and all they do is hurt people. Some things may be bad but again the good out weighs the bad. | ||
| BENJAMIN TALLEY |
To anonomous Thursday, August 5th Thank you for giving me a topic to talk about. There is a difference between a controlling force and a Godly conviction. I now go to a church that preaches against sin, but it is between the members and God to receive the conviction for that sin. the problem with the Word of Faith was that in a zeal to destroy "evil", Jane has overlooked the key truth, that free-minded people, including children, adults, and teenagers cannot stand to live under a code of laws too burdening to carry. For instance, why is it wrong to go fishing, play Golf, Ping-pong, Fuzeball,Baseball, Tennis, Tag-Football, Monopoly, Risk, Battleship, Guessing games, Standard Playing Cards, Chess... And why is it wrong for children of opposite sexes to even speak to each other. Don't get me wrong, I have always had the same basic convictions before and after I came out of the church, nothing in the church ever changed my God-given convictions. I felt no desire to go past these convictions when I left the church- and believe me, I was entirely free to do anything as far as the law of the land allowed it. The reason that there are so many young people in the world today that have no direction or morals is because when they leave home, they see it in the eyes of leaving behind the rules too. But their main anchor should be knowing the consequences of their actions, not sweating over God's will in something as simple as what toothpaste to buy or what suit to wear. Members of the WOFF, there are far greater things to attend to in life. As far as the boy mentioned above, Denise had no legal right to Keith.Is it not the parents responsibility to guide their child? Well, neither did the woman who picked him up have rights, you might say. But it was the fathers choice. I hated not being brought up by my parents these last six years. My Mom was just dictated to on how to speak, look, buy, and everything else for me, putting absolutely no authority in her relationship with me. Did I have respect for the other ministers? Maybe on every February 31. We children and teenagers were deprived of nearly every-thing that we needed in life. I cannot begin to tell about the pain it is to get back in society to learn even the basic rules of functioning in society.In short, while the Word of Faith is trying to reach a "Christian Utopia" as one might call it, it has failed to honor the basics of life and Christianity. | ||
| Anonymous |
Ben, I could not have said it better! You are right on - thank you for addressing the "fear of evil" that grips the people in the WOFF. Since I left, I have determined to prove that it is possible to live a life of conviction, outside the WOFF. I have been successful, and have found that many others have been successful too - contrary to what we were told about anyone who left the church. My decision to leave WOFF was not a decision to leave God, much less any convictions and beliefs God put in my heart. Amen, Benjamin! | ||
| Anonymous |
To recurring defensive anonymous figure- Sure there is good in the church. But remember, Nero constructed the aquaducts, the Pope made loyal church members during the inquisition, Hitler brought Germany out of recession and built the Audibon, Mussolini made the trains run on time, the Branch Davidens were taught "christian love", and the first gay Anglican Bishop was just appointed. Does their good deeds justify their other actions? Absolutely not! | ||
| YYZed |
Redstar: Interesting user name. Are you a Rush fan by chance. The infamous Rush logo with the star inside a circle with the naked man going into the star is called "redstar" by die hard Rush fans especially in reference to their famous CD 2112 In fact, their songs 'freewill' and 'neurotica' helped me when I left an affiliated church | ||
| Redstar |
Actually, it's one of two distinctions for the company; Redstar is film & Greenstar is television. I do like Rush quite a bit tho, personally. Seen them many times back to the early 80's & Signals. | ||
| Caren |
To Anonymous of Wednesday, August 06, 2003 - 06:05 pm , Are you really comparing the Anglicans to the Nazis & Mousollini because they elected a gay bishop? Are you living in this century? Whatever your views on homosexuality are, that is an offensive statement. | ||
| Anonymous |
To Caren, I was not comparing those people with each other, but I was pointing out the simple fact that evil people can do "good' things or be in good positions many times. But that doesn't make them perfect. And whatever YOUR views on homosexuality are, just read the Bible in Romans 1 and see what God has to say about homosexuality. If God meant for the Bible to be changed, would he not inspire someone to write a new one? But he doesn't want to. Therefore, homosexuality is wrong, whatever century one may live in. I don't care if I am "politically correct" or not. This is a religious chatroom, not a political one, and my above statement about the GAY bishop was just a reference to build up a point. | ||
| Benjamin Talley |
I agree with the Anonymous above. Jane is not Gay (that I know of) and she is not a political Dictator, but does that mean that since she demands people give up their drugs or other unhealthful and addictive practices that she is a good pastor? Absolutely not! Oh, and by the way, for Jane's valiant defender, I have been waiting for a response from our last discussion. I enjoy counter-pointing you. | ||
| Caren |
Just because this is a board dealing with a religious subject doesn not make it a "religious" board. In fact, the main reason for this entire site's existance is the ABUSES perpetrated on people in the name of religion. Therefore, I feel free in stating that just because some 2000 year-old book says that a certain way of life is "wrong" according to some invisible man that lives in the sky, does not make it so in an intelligent, civilized society; just as it doesn't justify any of the horrible things that the Whaley's do. Religion sure does a lot of things to narrow people's outlook on life for some really arbitrary reasons,and I find it hard to believe that in the year 2003, with all the science that we now know and the knowledge we have of the workings of the universe, someone can still quote "god says so" as an excuse and people will buy it. | ||
| WOFF=PAIN |
Hello, everyone, I have a lot of mixed feelings when reading these messages here. I too, wonder why anyone would leave a cult and then defend it. I think that at least a few of the folks who scream "You can't understand because you didn't go through what I went through!" or better yet, "Jane is a nice woman!" are wounded and hurting and perhaps caught in some pride issues. I don't have to wallow with the pigs to know it would get me dirty, but then again, I have been a pig myself, sometimes. I have heard the argument that the only ones fit to minister to someone in a situation are those who have been there, alluding to the 2 Corinthians passage about the comfort we receive, we give to others. I don't think that is a LAW or anything. Maybe there are some people in the Body of Christ who are able to deal with this mess because they have not been entangled in it. I wonder how the IRS can not be involved in an investigation when there are(or at least have been) covered dish dinners at WOFF which people are then asked to pay to attend (when they bring their own food!).Maybe a cult could be uprooted with the same tactics that worked against Al Capone.(taxes and associated) I remember a professor in college who said that true heretics are not whom others call such, but are those who cut themselves off from everyone else. I have a brother(and his family) in this cult. He was involved for several years before moving with his family to the area to have a deeper involvement. I used to be very close to him, but his attitude toward me slowly turned to one that: I was going to hell if I wasn't a carbon copy of him.... kinda' like sibling rivalry gone mad! I feel this terrible relationship formed out of what I have come to call a genetic tendency towards religious addiction. I have somehow received or chosen or something... the grace of God to see and make different choices about how to view God and a relationship with Him. I still fall a lot into the rut, because it's easier to stay merely religious than it is to follow Jesus anywhere. I will admit that I at one time was a hard-core religious addict who needed to be needed in church circles so I could feel that God accepted me. That is no way to live. I'm so glad Jesus is patient with us frail humans! There are lots of cults in the Church at large that have gone unnoticed, because they don't fit the traditional definition. They are cults of personality. They are groups of Christians who may not be following Christ too closely, but they're simply better at embracing the religious or legalistic (man-centered, man-pleasing) spirit that seems to have swallowed at least most of the Western Church whole. After all, one of the principal definitions of cult is "a system of religious worship". Just because you can respond with, "Yes, but THAT isn't what we're facing with WOFF.", does that make it any less rampant or dangerous? There may be more 'cults' like this than we are comfortable finding out! Who really knows if there would be so many WOFF's if there were a concerted effort in the Church to forsake the same religious spirit in OUR heart that drives these groups. But I digress.... I have had to literally cut off any relationship with my brother, because my, "You're going to hell!" tolerance factor reached zero. My wife and I got very nauseated just to visit with my brother at an associated (duped) fellowship years ago. On a more recent first-and-hopefully-last visit down Old Flynn Road to see the facility, I received some looks and stances that could only be described as an attempt to intimidate. As a redeemed idiot who embraced witchcraft wholeheartedly, I must repeat that the essence of witchcraft is not magic, sorcery, spells, or such foolishness, but ANYTHING that has its main goal to Manipulate, Intimidate, or Dominate. If you could somehow extract most of the fear from the hearts and minds of those in WOFF, they would cease to be WOFF. I still ask myself: Why, God, did I think I alone could make a difference? Why did I think there was something I could say that would help someone? There may be several possible strategies that look like they could destroy this cult structure, but I personally have what may seem like differing views. 1) Only God by His mighty power can or will deliver these poor people. Maybe some or most of what is attempted is "good ideas, but not God ideas." It's gotten so anymore that you can't make that assertion without tremendous blowback. 2) As long as there are frail humans with religious tendencies, there will be the tendency to form ultra-religious groups and cults, etc. 3) There is a passage in Ezekiel that says God answered those particular people "according to their idols". (Chapter 10 or 12?) Could it be that some WOFF'ers are under (dare I say) God's delusion for not choosing truth? Could they possibly want delivered if they feel perfectly happy as they are? Are we in danger of hardening their hearts against the Truth if we go in the strength of our own reason or flesh? 4) Maybe God has yet to raise up a type of Moses, for this situation, who will act strictly by His SPECIFIC word to be an instrument of freedom. If any of you claim to be like that, the rest of us want to see some RESULTS! 5) As a family relative of some people on the inside of WOFF who seem to try to excel at their job, I guess I am one of the hurting and confused. My brother's involvement has been one of the major factors in my family's implosion. How much more of the witch-hunters screaming about WOFF and what it is can be necessary? 6) There are reams of material written about how to destroy controlling powers, overcome witchcraft, etc. Are the authors too busy with their own kingdom or writing books to advance God's in Spindale? By and large, I feel books and teachings like these are designed mostly to empower the author with cash, not the reader with Truth. Like the fisherman whose friend picked up the latest high-tech lure from his box and said,"What's this designed to attract?".. the response:"Fishermen." Which is worse: to be under assault from the evil one or to be asleep in his lap? What will happen to US if this cult never dissolves? What DOES it say about US as Christians? Is the mere existence of a CULT with the trappings of Evangelical/Charismatic practice and teaching some sort of indictment against what we claim to be or possess in Christ? Perhaps only God can answer that, but I can ask. If my diatribe upsets (m)any of you, please try to keep your immature whining and profanity to a minimum. We are all Pharisees if none of us is Jesus. Call me defensive. What can I say? "Am not!" Everyone is free to respond, but I wonder if some of you should simply get a life and live it. Re:"civilized": One government leader said that he wasn't opposed to capital punishment in a civilized society, but that first you must have a civilized society!.. and the book is not 2000 years old, and if you are so knowledgeable that you can't or won't "believe" in God(as if that's the goal), you need to make another kind of calendar, 'cause 2003 means nothing to you, not "BCE". As a somewhat survivor-in-process of the monster that is WOFF, I would be glad to talk by e-mail with anyone who may have been on the inside and needs empathy or an ear to chew on. I may not have much to say that is of great help, but I am willing to listen and pray. | ||
| Anonymous |
Ben, What was your life like before you and your mom came to WOFF? What was your moms life like? What was Keiths life like? Where is Keiths dad living? All that Denise and that couple whom Keith lived with was wanting to help Keith and his family. They wanted to help. I remember one time when I thought I wanted to help my friend. After all we were free to make our own choices, and nobody was going to tell us what to do. Remember being to strict is abuse. Well today my friend is no longer alive. He never would let anyone change him. I always thought well if it doesn't work out here I can always go back to him. I know of another time where someone's son who was free to do what he wanted and he got put into JDH. His mother spent half the night trying to get him out. By 5:00 in the morning she got him out, by 6:00 in the morning he was shot dead. Do you not think for a moment that she wishes she never let him out? She thought it was better to get him out of JDH instead of help. If you would have gone to either of those parents of the people who died and said I would like to help your children, they would have spit in your face. Today they have to live with the outcome of there choices. In one of your statements you said: Is it not the parents responsibility to guide their child? Well, neither did the woman who picked him up have rights, you might say. But it was the fathers choice. Do you really believe that? Do you not believe that parents make wrong choices every day? Do you not hear about the children who wake up dead or murdered because there parents were negligent or responsible for the murder? Ben, what I am trying to say is the World that is free to make choices, playing monopoly, baseball whatever the choice may be is by far more dangerous than WOFF. You were safe at WOFF, I was safe at WOFF. Monopoly, baseball, fishing, foosball, pool, and all that other to my understanding was not the game itself but what people gave to when playing the game. They would forget all about what God was trying to teach them. And as far as having respect for any of the other Ministers, you sound a little bitter here. I will never forget what one of the Ministers constantly would say over and over. You have to look at there heart! Quit looking at what comes out of there mouth because under certain circumstances we may not see it right. Or they really may not be saying it right. But look at there heart! They are doing (what they think to the best of there ability) what is right. I guess the difference between you and me is I did not leave being bitter. I left because I did not want to live there anymore. But I am thankful to God everyday for the dicipline that I learned while I was there. I remember what my family came out of. I wish Jane had been there for my parents and siblings, we wouldn't had to live with what we have to now. You see my brothers and sisters cannot stand to talk to me either because of joining a church group. They preferred having me just like them. I never know if I am going to hear of one them dying from a heart attack or drug overdose, or drunk driving. Now that I am no longer there they want me to call them. But I don't want to go back there Ben, I learned a lot from WOFF that I wouldn't have known if I had not gone there. But there is one other major difference that helped me. I did not take anyone with me. I did not join up with those people who are against the WOFF to feed there bitterness into me. | ||
| Caren |
Sure, you may be safe from drugs, guns, and the like at WOFF. You will, however, pay for it in loss of freewill, subjugation to the whims of others, and the perversion of your spiritual well-being. Personally, I'll take my chances on he street.... | ||
| Revival |
I agree with caren on this. Being subject to the whims of others when it did not bare witness with the Holy Spirit in me was very frustrating. Jane would teach us to hear the voice of God. But when I did this and it did not agree with another leader or even a family member, I was told I was wrong on many occasions and any dessension was met with swift judgement and usually the chair untill I had a change of HEART and saw things their way. I know this grieved the Holy Spirit. Decisions involving my family were the cause of so much friction and pain. Bottom line, this was not scriptural and not Gods will at all. You will not justify it here. | ||
| Anonymous |
That is a fact Revival you do agree with Caren, and Caren does not believe in God per there statements above: "I feel free in stating that just because some 2000 year-old book says that a certain way of life is "wrong" according to some invisible man that lives in the sky and I find it hard to believe that in the year 2003, with all the science that we now know and the knowledge we have of the workings of the universe, someone can still quote "god says so" as an excuse and people will buy it". This is why you needed a change of heart. And this is why you are so bitter, and this bitterness will eat you up. Can't you see how the devil himself was so bitter. You still agree with what the devil was telling you, not the Holy Spirit as you had thought. The Holy Spirit was not grieved, but the devil was grieved. Your family was just trying to help you, but you would not allow it, that is why there was so much friction. You did not and still do not see it as God trying to help you change in order to make your life better. I would rather have the chair than to face Gods Judgement. It seems like a minor price to pay when it is all over. I got the chair many times myself, but I saw what God was trying to show me, I also saw where my friends, family were trying to help me with. And on the things I did not agree with I pray still for God to show me. But I also pray for them if they are wrong. I do not go out and attack them. | ||
| Revival |
YOU TAKE TO MANY LIBERTY'S WITH MY WORDS, BROTHER. I agreed with this person on one point (subjaction to the whims of others)and you run with it. Caren's personal beliefs are not the focus here. The spiritual authority that jw taught was based on a (book) by Watchman Nee, not the Bible. Her foundation is not Christ and she is in ERROR. You are presumptuous about me and you ASS U ME to much. You need to REPENT. I would suggest you dispose of all your woffia tape's and go back to the basic's and get a proper foundation. You can give me the tape's, I will put them to good use. | ||
| Vox Dei |
Anonymous, you say that Caren "does not believe in God", needs "a change of heart", is "bitter" and will be eaten up. What prideful, judgmental arrogance! Is this what "the chair" taught you? You have but to look with open eyes to see me. You do not need to worship a book, or have any other person (or "devil") quote words from that book and tell you they are "God's word". You see, my child, I am Love, and if you don't understand the meaning of that, no amount of "teaching" or "discipline" for "your own good" will redeem you. | ||
| Benjamin Talley |
To anonymous: "Why do you twist what we say"- that is YOUR favorite minister's statement. Remember when Jane said that God could even speak through a guy off the street? How dare you say that about Caren? Your hypocricy is beyond my comprehension. And by the way, even if you don't want to post your name, thanks for giving us debate topics. | ||
| Benjamin Talley |
Oh and by the way, If you'll give your name, maybe we can arrange with Jane to get you back in that cult. It seems like you have found a "place of repentence" | ||
| Revival |
Heavens no ben, don't tell him that. Could you imagine this person seven times worse. | ||
| escapefromWOFF |
Hi Ben! So glad to hear you are out of WOFF. I have been praying for you and your mother to get out there for a long time. | ||
| Glenn Talley |
What no one has done here is to realize what word of faith really is. The obvious has been overlooked. wof is very unAmerican. It is a totalitarian regime. Instead of political, it is religious. A theocracy. Like what we as westerners and Christians condemn in places like Afghanistan and Iran. But just the same as in China, North Korea, Soviet Russia and Nazi Germany. The tactics are the same. out and out brainwashing and subjugation by the self appointed elite. The dominance of the personality cult. Stalin, Hitler, Mussolini, Castro, Kim Il Jung, Nimrod.....Jane Whaley. For Jane to claim she is an apostle is blasphemy. Everything about wof points to a communistic society. Living commune style (like hippies in the 60's), working in church (state) factories. the controlling and banning of what the comrades can watch, read, say, do, think, be. All of the God given rights we as Americans have spelled out in the Bill of Rights. If our government took these rights away we as Americans would revolt. Why would anyone allow another individual to take away these rights of an American? Because she proclaims herself an apostle of God? Satan controls Jane like he did Hitler, Stalin etc. Satan's plan is control of the human race using any means possible, religion, politics, sex, drugs, alcohol...and self proclaimed oracles of God. We as Americans can not and must not allow that level of control in our lives for any purpose. Each of us as individuals must decide for ourselves by listening to the Holy Sprit, not man, what God's word is. Satan let my people go!!!! | ||
| Revival |
You know anonymous God made repentance an easy task, jane made it hard. | ||
| Anonymous |
You know Revival, I believe that deep down you know that I belive that Jane may not always be right. And basically what my point is if you do not like what you receive at WOFF than leave. Like you and I did. So what if Jane may be making it hard for people to repent, she will have to account to God for her actions, not you or me. But what if she is hearing correctly from God, than we must account for our actions. Jane is not following you or me around trying to come after us using the media to say hey you are sinners, you need to be stopped! Call 1-800 if you need help to get away from these sinners! But I do believe that she does pray for us. I believe if you are able to make the choice to move there than you are able to make the choice to leave. Are you fighting other issues such as people allowing there children to smoke before the age of 16? Are you fighting parents allowing there children to drink before the age of 16? Are you fighting other things in your life and things that you believe are not right as much as you are fighting WOFF? Like these religous programs that get on TV and ask for money from people so they can be healed? Where is your fight against that sort of abuse? | ||
| Benjamin Talley |
To the "Godsend, truthgiving" Anonymous (who is too scared to mention its name) Greetings once again. I believe that I saw a misprint in the very first line. it should say "I may always believe that Jane is not right" Anyway, I knew you should have meant that. What kind of Christian is a person who believes that he or she has a right to meddle in the affairs of other families? Yes, we should bring the Gospel, but should not be overly dogmatic lest we offend them. I am sure that revival will answer your argument quite well, but I would like to say a word or two. What business do we have to go after other false ministries that we know nothing about? We should try to stop the one that has hurt us. And have you tried to stop parents from letting their kids smoke before they are 16? I'm sure if the parents could not stop them and the pastor could not counsel them,what authority do we have? We can help, but what the heck are you talking about anyway? If you didn't notice already, this is a website for the WORD OF FAITH's abuses, not to let you put us on a guilt trip for not trying to bring down Benny Hinn or whatever minister that you may believe is false. We are a few people in number, but with God's help, we will succeed in facing injustice and cruelty and bringing the instrument- the Word of faith to accountability for it's actions. May God bless those who believe in his Freedom. | ||
| Revival |
Well anonymous you have missed the point with me and the others who have posted here. So I will splain it to ya this way. Jane and the organization know as the woffia are a virus, plain and simple. She has been the direct cause of much sorrow for many people and continues to use people to do her dirty work for her. If she is not stopped she will continue to bully, abuse and brainwash. I don't really believe she gives a #^&! about anybody else, REALLY. If she did she would not do some of the things she has done and correct the wrong instead of cover it up. I believe that would be Gods way, don't you. I do care about the people at woff. There are people who do want to leave but cannot just walk away. The security force has tailed me in the past, among other things. Several former members have told me that this has been done to them as well. Sherry Nolan testified about the security force and her testimony was found to be credible. Would you like me to post the findings of fact from the mcgee custody hearing? I have a copy of it. As for the rest of your dribble, it does not deserve my attention. By the way, regarding repentance, that was for you, brother. | ||
| Revival |
Kudos Benjamin, will said. | ||
| Ben Talley |
Talking about the Word of Faith School, not only do they need yo be shut down for child abuse, but the high school academics is crap. I made straight A's in WFCS, and am now making B's in my school now. This school is actually making me think for my grades. All the WFCS wants is to control the children, and hand out good grades to make them look good. I am now taking an Advanced Literature class. And sure, I knew more literature than most people in the church, but I hadn't read a fiction book since 1996. How can the WFCS say about their education? It sucks. That's all. | ||
| Revival |
I hear they give you a test over and over until you get a good grade. Is that true? | ||
| Ben Talley |
That is most definately true. The problem was that some took the test three times while others just once. There were so many times that the teacher would read out every answer to the test and then give us an "open book test". There were only two teachers I respected there- Patti Dolan and Sandol Johnson. They really taught. One year Bonnie Lawrence "taught" us Biology, but because of the reproductive unit in each chapter, we were only taught on plants and nutrition. Do you know what we got? Straight As for all 4 quarters. What do I know about Biology? Only what I learned from reading College students books while I was there.( They generally had fewer markouts than highschool students) | ||
| Anonymous |
to the idiot that said that jane saw elvis, i heard him, and he was singing ..jane aint nothing but a hound dog. | ||
| Anonymous |
I AM TOTALLY AMAZED AT THE PERSON WHO SAID THAT WOFF WAS A SAFE PLACE? WHAT!!! children are blasted, spanked until they are black and blue, and in one case blood ran down the leg of one child he was spanked so hard, and jane actually grabbed a grabbed a young girl around the throat and left bruises, and you think that is safe? OH GOD DELIVER ME FROM THAT KIND OF SAFETY, IT COULD KILL ME! |
