| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous (69.242.21.100) |
VERICHIP created the computer chips that are now ready for human implantation ...beware friends our faith is about to be tried thru the fire.... | ||
| Gods kids (66.99.115.29) |
Old news.Interesting tho.Already used in Florida.Gee,what a surprise. | ||
| Anonymous (67.224.36.248) |
the "mark" is taking on the nature character and authority of the beast. | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.112.61) |
I'm sure something like this will be the "mark of the beast" as described in Revelation. They will probably use identity theft as the reason for its implementation. No cash, no checks, no credit cards, just "you". | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.112.142) |
This is certainly a precursor of things to come..just a matter of time. It will be a voluntary thing at first, but mandatory after WWIII and world peace is declared and one-world govt. set up...it's gonna get interesting. | ||
| Anonymous (69.242.21.100) |
word has it that in a matter of months after re-election it will start being implemented ..also the unity of all religions under a banner of peace(false peace) | ||
| Douglas (141.153.160.190) |
69.242.21 How do you propose one beware? What must one do? | ||
| GodsServant (152.163.101.12) |
One must pray to God for their deliverance from that Great and Terrible time! †GOD BLESS | ||
| Dark Knight (24.11.86.227) |
It's FDA approved...for the FDA to approve anything there have to be studies, first on animals, then on humans. Who were the human experimentees? | ||
| Anonymous (69.242.21.100) |
its seems theres been a number of humans it was tested on ,theres even been messages on bulletin boards in stores shops gyms about signing up for a experimental testing and survey ... | ||
| Anonymous (68.90.77.91) |
"Gloom and Doom" Just Serve God..Help people...Make sure you've got oil in your lamp. Don't be a fool. (Matthew 25) | ||
| Anonymous (69.242.21.100) |
if you take the mark you ain't serving God but the beast ,good deeds won't save you ... | ||
| 88 (69.150.192.49) |
I think it is exciting that God doing such a work in this world in fulfilling his word. IT is DOOM and GLOOM to those who don't put their faith in God and don't know the Bible. There is a huge campaign now to unite and transform the churches under the Purpose Driven Life and the church growth movement. There is a false eschatology being propagated at the top levels of every major denomonation saying that the book of revelation is alegorical and the tribulations were fulfilled in 70ad Like 91 said, don't be a fool. Don't be a blind follower. Get your own oil from a word for word version of the Bible and don't be spoonfed by your pastor. If your church is not preaching these things in these last days then SOMETHING IS REALLY WRONG THERE!!!! check it out. | ||
| Douglas (68.162.55.104) |
69.242.21 How do you propose one beware? What must one do? I'm not asking about good deeds. What is the image of the beast thast one may be convicted and not worship it? | ||
| GodsServant (64.12.114.39) |
WAKE UP AMERICA! I believe the Beast to be a super computer in Europe. It will hold the entire information about everyone who excepts the Mark(chip). The Mark(chip) will symbolize the Antichrist. Meaning its Mark will be in His Name. Therefore, accepting the Mark would be accepting HIM. †GOD BLESS | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.112.48) |
I definitely think this is coming sooner or later. However, I doubt it will be "mandatory" as the Bible seems to indicate that people will have a choice to accept or reject the "mark" (but will be unable to buy or sell if they reject it). This would certainly be consistent with an identity-type chip that contained your financial information. | ||
| Anonymous (65.1.90.51) |
.88, Interesting that CBN, one of the big players in what is fast becoming the "one world" ecumenical church, claims that the Verichip will NOT be the mark. That instead it's going to be a good thing. http://www.cbn.com/cbnnews/news/020131a.asp Maybe it won't. But it sure sets the technological stage for the Mark... especially since later incarnations of this will be implanted on the thumb (HAND) for commerce just as foretold in Revelation... or thumb/finger prints will be used for the same reason. http://www.stpetersburgtimes.com/2004/02/28/Tampabay/Have_your_thumb_ready.shtml blessings, ulyankee | ||
| Douglas (138.89.125.242) |
GS What does the image of a supercomputer look like and how does one worship the image of a supercomputer? Anon My understanding was all those who do not take the mark will be put to death. | ||
| GodsServant (64.12.117.11) |
Douglas, The image would pertain to the CHIP itself. Its possible that the Chip actually will have the Antichrist's name in it. In other words, the program used to collect data off the Chip may be the Antichrist's name. The program may also have a picture or symbol representing Him. Thereby, it would most definitely be an image. Taking the Chip would be accepting Him symbolically. Either way you look at it, accepting the Chip would be accepting His Beliefs. What can we do?
But who knows??? maybe the chip might even look like him??? lol, kidding †GOD BLESS | ||
| Douglas (138.89.125.242) |
The rapture described in the bible is about saving the elect from God's wrath and it is a common fantasy to believe one will be saved from tribulation(s) by a rapture. As far as the image being the chip it says all those who worship the image will be caused to take a mark. It sounds funny to say all those who worship an image will be forced to take an image. Perhaps you have it reversed and the chip computer is the image but I think it is related more to something in our heart, the fallen nature, man subject to enviornment as opposed to Creator, not saying how it will manifest. I'm not sure how the devil will appear. | ||
| GodsServant (205.188.116.73) |
CHECK THIS OUT! Medical Microchip OK'd This is really scary! †GOD BLESS | ||
| daneila (daneila) New member Username: daneila Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.125.141.90 |
The countdown begins; from 911 to war on terror, from recent earthquakes to Mount St. Helens about to eurpt, from our food being contaminated with insectides & antibiotics to the evolution of superbugs (pestilance) and unpresidented diseases never imagined like aids and cancers of every kind (plagues), from choosing a so called leader of christian moral values to the mark of the beast "so that all would be fooled even the elect if that were possible". I voted for him too. it truly doesn't matter at this point, one or the other was bound to bring it about, the Bible declares it, it was just a matter of time. And how amazing it is to be here and now eye witnesses to the facts. This is a time of trial but it is also a time of vendication, for all the christians who have ever been and who will ever be. because there is no dening the progression of the times in which we live were prophesied 2000 years ago. This tells the world to all who would have ears to hear that the bible is true and therefore Christ will be returning in the Flesh. This is the time to stock pile your talents into the kingdom of God, in every aspect. Take your stocks out of the stock market and put it in the God market, to missonaries here and around the world, and to the church so that when the market is saturated and the demand for the use of the chip is so prevalent that life will be made immpossible without it even to the point that the world government leaders are forcing everyone to be chiped and we refuse we can still go to the church and get our food and water and supplies for God has said that we should not need to turn to the world to meet even our every day needs but that He (though us, eachother) would be our supplier. And that the "jar of oil" will not run empty until there is no longer a need. FAITH AND UNITY OF EVERY CHRISITAN SOUL POSSESSING THE HOLY SPIRIT IS THE ONLY WEAPON CAPABLE OF DESTROING THE SCHEMES OF SATAN. WE MUST KEEP OUR HEARTS, EYES, AND EARS OPEN AND JOIN TOGETHER, REMEMBER WE CAN NOT BE DEFEATED, THE WAR HAS ALREADY BEEN WON!! DANEILA CORTEZ FRESNO, CA PLEASE CONTACT ME @ danllilac@hotmail.com God does bless and protect us at all times, keep the faith!! | ||
| daneila (daneila) New member Username: daneila Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.125.141.90 |
to Douglas and all else piping in: The chip can and most likely be bar coded all bar codes inhearently contain the number 666 acording to this article '666' In The Universal Product Code - Forerunner Of 'The Mark'? see: http://www.rense.com The ultimate plan is to divide the christians; you know the old divide and concor ploy, but the true belivers will not be divided. this whole country is going to turn against us, so we gotta stick together. Remember what the bible says, think on these things, whatever is pure whatever is true, whatever is lovely, give praise for the time of freedom that we have right now to prepare, for the grace and mercy of a loving savior who has shown us the way. love your families, and your neighbors be kind to strangers you never know who God want's to save from this end and we will meet Elijah and Enuc don't forget! Keep your head up! It is not the way of God's children to fear!! But to win with the shield of Faith and the sword of truth. Daneila | ||
| franklin (franklin) New member Username: franklin Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.142.208.76 |
If everyone took all of their money out of the stock market, like you advocate, the economy will collapse and the end times would be here and now. A self fulfilling prophecy. We have nothing to fear but fear itself. Stop spreading fear. So if a non-believer (someone who believes, for instance, the grape juice of communion "represents" Christ's blood instead of "is Christ's blood") comes to a stockpiled church for food and water, would you refuse that person? If you do, you deny Christ. The Kingdom of God is at hand. Love God and your fellow man now! Don't worry about tomorrow. Let tomorrow take care of itself. That is Christ's commandment. Obey Him. Did Jesus tell us to stockpile? No. | ||
| daneila (daneila) New member Username: daneila Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.106 |
Dear Franklin, thank you for addressing my comments. I was very eager to receive responses. This topic is absolutely enthralling to me. You misunderstand my comments, for that I apologize. I do not advocate taking all of our money out of the stock market altogether like the infamous bank runs of the ‘30’s. I am however suggesting that one be sure to include the kingdom of God as a guaranteed return on all investment; time, money, talent. That is to say, I am only mimicking what Christ himself has said, in Matthew 6:19-21(NKJ); "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroy and where thieves do not break in and steal. For where your treasure is there your heart will be also. Our stocks and bank systems ARE going to fail that is inevitable. I did not prophesy this God himself did time and time again. And like Christ said we are to be aware of the signs of the times and all signs point to His swift return. Again Jesus said in Luke 12:15-21(NIV) "Watch Out! Be on your guard against all kinds of greed; a man’s life does not consist in the abundance of his possessions." He goes on to tell a parable of the Rich Fool, Luke 12:16-21. We agree the kingdom of God is at hand, my only desire was to send an encouraging word in hopes of inspiring unity among us believers for we should be the representation of the Solid Rock of Jesus Christ for all of the ‘not yet believers’ to turn to for directions to Christ. The Bible says this world will fade away. God and Jesus and the various authors of the books throughout the Bible give many instructions for being prepared. From physical preparation to spiritual preparation. That preparation includes giving to those who have need. Proverbs 19:17 (NKJ) He who has pity on the poor lends to the Lord, and He (the Lord) will pay back what he has given." I’m not sure how you could have misconstrued my point from ‘be(ing) kind to strangers because you never know who God wants to save from this (terrible) end’ i.e. believers and unbelievers, to turning people away; the exact opposite of what I said. Because, I should clarify that by showing kindness to strangers and those seeking assistance you open the door to the heart to plant a seed for the plan of salvation through Christ. I assume you are familiar with the Church of Acts; Acts 4:32 (NIV) says "all the believers were one in heart and mind. No one claimed that any of his possessions was his own, but they shared everything they had. (v.34) there were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from sales and put it at the apostles feet and it was distributed to anyone who had need." Where even under persecution the church grew at an astounding rate and they lacked nothing. I’m sure you are familiar with the story of Anania’s and Sapphira (Acts ch. 5) the married couple who deliberately withheld from God and tried to sneak their way into the kingdom. But knowing their hearts, by the revelation of the Holy Spirit, Peter revealed their sin and in the blink of and eye they were both dead. And what about in Proverbs 6:6; consider, it says, the ways of the ant and be wise, she provides her supplies in the summer and gathers her food in the harvest. We are yet in the summer but the harvest is not far off. The Bible is our outline for how we are to conduct ourselves in these last days. And about the literal or non literal meaning of the communion, which I feel I am blessed to be able to partake in, as every one is. However, I agree with Paul in Titus 3:9. I would never pass judgment on anyone who wanted to partake in the Communion of Christ, it is a form of worship, and for a non believer to confess Christ as their Savior, and by taking of the communion, publicly declaring it, that is a day of Celebration! A Great Day to Celebrate with all of Heaven for another victory for Jesus! But if you mean for a non believer to partake in the communion expressly refusing to declare Christ as Lord than I would inform him that the Bible warns against doing that in 1 Corinthians 11: 29 (NKJ) "For he who eats and drinks in an unworthy manner east and drinks judgment to himself, not discerning the Lord’s body." That has nothing to do with what anyone personally thinks about the individual but what God has said. In the love of Christ, God Bless you. Daneila | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 53 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.151.95.44 |
I am not going to sell my house and place the money at the feet of an apostle. Because there are no apostles alive today. That is what is going on in cults today. The decieved giving away their material possessions to charlatans, decievers. I might be reading your post wrong, but I read naivete there. That talk about giving all to an apostle is cultic and dangerous. | ||
| daneila (daneila) New member Username: daneila Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.106 |
Yes, you are taking my post in the wrong vain. I think perhaps you are walking a fine line of paranoia. You don't have to do anything that you do not feel propted by the Holy Spirit to do. Are you saved? I think that if you are then you should get grounded in a good church that teaches the word of God, study the word of God for yourself, ask God for his peace and go with what you feel your heart is convicting you tward. If your not then I understand your fears, but that is precisely why Christ lived, layed down his life,picked it up and is on his way back again. We have been given the Holy Spirit as our own personal counselor, for personal guidance and wisdom. No, if i owned my own house i would not sell it either, not out of fear of losing everything i had worked so hard for, but because i would want it to be a "safe house" for anyone who does not want to take the chip. Unless God called me to do that and i would know because i would feel convicted in my heart to do and i would have the word of God to back that up knowing that that is a tool that he uses to provide for his children (even the ones who are yet to be) there are thousands of christians throughtout history who have done exactly that and dedicated their lives to full time ministry, and there are others and thank God for them whose call it is to keep the "home fires burning" by giving what they can not just financially because God can use anything we offer him he only wants to know that we place nothing above him. but there is coming the time when we christians will be forced out of our home and pursed unto death, because of Idolatry. the world loving their posessions so much that they are blinded by lies that temp them to pursue more and more and to fear losing any of it. You don't seem to understand the gravity of the effect that this veri-chip is going have on society as we know it. Every material thing that you put your trust in is going to evaporate before your eyes. the untimate persecusion of christians is just around the corner, this technology is moving in on us fast. the only thing we have to hang onto is the word of and God his promises. If you are not sure if you are saved because you feel you could be swayed by any unsound doctrine that blows in the wind, then i urge you in love to fall to you knees in the privacy of your own home and ask for the power of the Holy Spirit to inter into you. Once again the elect (those who have the Holy Spirit) cannot be decieved, for the word of God is alive inside of them and the lies are made known to them. where others will be conviced to the point that they will be willing to kill us for the truth that we will not compromise. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Wow! Talk about PARANOIA! Yes I am saved. I have been for 7 years. Yes, I go to a good church grounded in the Word of God. The Holy Spirit does guide me in my search for truth. You, on the other hand, seem to be grounded in the word of fear. All of this fearmongering you are spreading are things that MIGHT come to pass. You don't know for certain when the endtimes will be. If you think you are, then you are rejecting what it says in Revelations. Someone in every generation since the crucifixion of Christ has claimed that that time was the endtimes. And they all had signs to prove it. If you disagree, read history. I believe YOU should find a church that is grounded in the Word of God and not the word of fear. God does not give us the spirit of fear, satan does! If that is what your church is teaching, then they are walking a fine line of cultic paranoia. As to the chip you are talking about, that may or may not be the mark of the beast. You've watched way too many "Left Behind" movies. As to "the elect". That is certainly a title misused by cults. Many who think they are "the elect" will be lost by their piety and pride. The so-called elect are decieved everyday by satanic charlatans who claim their church is the only true church and that these are the endtimes. One common thread that runs through all cults is "These are the endtimes". Branch Davidians, Jim Jones' Peoples Temple, Charles Manson's murderers, to name just a few. Get out into the real world. Spread the real gospel. It is the gospel of love. Not fear. If anyone tries to put a chip in us, we can defeat them with the Word of God. Open up your bible. There are many books before Revelations. Read them. It seems you are just stuck in Revelations. That is out of balance. Your fearmongering is promoting dangerous cults. I look forward to your response but PLEASE use paragraphs and space between them. That would be so much easier for me to read. What I wrote above, I wrote in love. | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Franklin, If you will please listen to what im about to say I would certainly appreciate it. From reading your posts you seem to be trying to live a Christian life. However, if you will please understand you are causing a bit of strife with selected individuals. Those such as daneila are only warning those whom are not saved. If a warning will save a Soul then let IT BE. God works in mysterious ways and through his elect, He will Warn that the rapture is Near. So many do not think before they comment but it is to my understanding that all whom are Saved should act in a Christ Like manner and Love each brother/sister in Christ. I have made mistakes as you are doing in the past but learned to think before acting. My only desire is to get you thinking before you react so harshly to Others. Please dont get offended by my post for I enjoy you here in the boards. Continue doing Gods work because He will guide you where your needed. Take Care VGOD BLESS | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 64 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.148.45.254 |
And that is what my intent is in the above posting. To get people to think. Come to Christ for God's love and salvation. Not out of fear of God's wrath and damnation. A Christian who feels God's love and protection is a powerful vessel of God's love compared to a Christian who spreads fear and misunderstanding of God. Let the unsaved come to God for the right reasons. Let them learn the gospel of Christ by reading the New Testament on their own with the Holy Spirit working in them. Let them be born again in God's time. Then and only then let them read and learn the Book of Revelations on their own, interpret it on their own with the Holy Spirit in them to reveal God's truth. If Christians just beat the unsaved over the head with the Book of Revelations they won't come to Christ. And if they do, fear is the wrong motivation. They won't stay, they will stray because they don't feel God's love and question their salvation. Christ told us what to say to the world. Nowhere in his words is the message of fear or about the endtimes. Thanks for your comments.  | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) New member Username: just_curious Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.110.91.245 |
Would someone mind explaining to me what it is about Franklin's posts that riles people so? I feel like I'm missing something because they just don't affect me the same way. I generally find him to be well-reasoned and grounded. | ||
| rebelrenegade (rebelrenegade) New member Username: rebelrenegade Post Number: 17 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.214.86.140 |
Wow! Talk about PARANOIA! Yes I am saved. I have been for 7 years. Yes, I go to a good church grounded in the Word of God. The Holy Spirit does guide me in my search for truth. You, on the other hand, seem to be grounded in the word of fear. All of this fearmongering you are spreading are things that MIGHT come to pass. You don't know for certain when the endtimes will be. If you think you are, then you are rejecting what it says in Revelations. Someone in every generation since the crucifixion of Christ has claimed that that time was the endtimes. And they all had signs to prove it. If you disagree, read history. I believe YOU should find a church that is grounded in the Word of God and not the word of fear. God does not give us the spirit of fear, satan does! If that is what your church is teaching, then they are walking a fine line of cultic paranoia. As to the chip you are talking about, that may or may not be the mark of the beast. You've watched way too many "Left Behind" movies. Franklin, We are all here to talk about the chip and the Possibility of it being used to track humans and keep records on them, Possibly even use the chip to Buy or sell. Now as far as the Fear thing? The Bible tells us to work out our own salvation with Fear and trembling. Besides, I have known to many people that had nightmares about burning in Hell and ended up getting Saved. Are you just covering your eyes and pretending it isn't happening? I am not saying it is, but with everything that is going on in the world today, You have to admit that the end is close. The world is making a turn for the worse. It is getting even more worldy more wars and fighting than there was 50 years ago. More violence. It might not happen in my lifetime, but I believe the Lord's Coming is close. God Bless | ||
| rebelrenegade (rebelrenegade) New member Username: rebelrenegade Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.214.86.140 |
So I suppose you think we should just blow Revelation off and not study it and compare it to today's world? I believe our Job as Christians is to Soulwin. Help People to come and know the Lord. I also Believe that we are to study the Book of revelation and Keep watch. We are in a race against time here. Time for winning the Souls of God is running out. I want as many people to come to christ as Possible, because they might not have a second chance. You are talking about Just serve God, Read his word and pray, but If I remember the Bible tells us to Keep watch. Mt 25:13 "watch therefore; for ye know neither the day nor the hour when the son of man cometh." Luke 12:37 "Blessed are those servants, whom the Lord when he cometh shall find watching: verily I say unto you, that he shall gird himself, and make them to sit down to meat, and will come forth and serve them." With those verses in Mind we are supposed to watch for the Lord's coming, but how do we do that without watching the world around us? The world around us will tell give us an Idea how close we are. The Bible says that in the Last days there will be wars and rumors of wars. The earthquakes will come. Now I am gonna say that I am no expert on revelation and I am not trying to be, but with the shape the world is in today and all the wars and violence as opposed to what 50 years ago? You can't sit there and say ahh nothing is happening. Your Just "paranoid." Look around you. With Sinners Living in sin, living in the sin of Homosexuality, preforming Abortion on Children within the Womb, to the ungodly pornographic garbage coming out of Hollywood daily and all the sexual trash the world is Peddling, The coming of Christ is close. Now Before you go and say that Jesus was saying prayerfully watch as a figure of speech, I believe he wants us to actually watch the world and see how much worse it gets as well as spend time on our knees and doing what God has called us to do. And that is to Soulwin and bring People to Christ. God Bless | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Junior Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 26 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.8.126.145 |
Now I am gonna say that I am no expert on revelation and I am not trying to be, but with the shape the world is in today and all the wars and violence as opposed to what 50 years ago? Please post your evidence showing the increase in violence in 2004 as compared to the violence in 1954. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 70 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.156.99.105 |
Good post, Yaakov. At this point I will let the doomsayers and Chicken Littles answer your demand for evidence. The above posts are so vague they could have been written anywhere in the time period of the the last two thousand years. It is so relevant to the topic. Let them give evidence. | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Yaakov, I have first Hand evidence! My own parents and grandparents lived during those times. They tell me about the good times when they could lay on their front porch sleeping and never have to worry about somebody coming to knock them in the head. Now from hearing that I would say Violence has increased immensely. Or how about when they used to leave their doors and windows unlocked? They were comfortable doing so because Violence wasnt an issue then. During those times people were much more grounded in Christianity and that is a FACT. Its no wonder we have such Violence now days seeing that the majority of people now are turning away from God. We are just getting bombarded by so many other religions that our Nation is Falling to the depths of Hell. I am so greatly Saddened to see such disgrace come bofore my eyes and to know that this must really hurt my God. May God have Mercy on us all! VGOD BLESS | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.156.99.105 |
I leave my house and car unlocked many times without a care in the world or fear. If you live in fear and are afraid of where you live, move. What you said is not evidence. It is anecdotal. Sixty years ago the whole world, on every continent was at war. Hitler was supposed to be the anti-Christ. Millions were being killed. Many were screaming that these were signs of the endtimes. Fifty years ago the world was on the brink of nuclear war. That was supposed to be the endtimes. What is happening today? The only war is in Iraq and that will soon be concluded. The crime rate is at a very low level today. So low that it was not even a campaign issue. The great earthquake of San Francisco of 1906 was supposed to be the end of the world. The destruction of Pompeii was supposed to be the end of the world. Those who fought in the Crusades thought they were fighting the battle of Armageddon. The Millerites went to live in caves a century ago because they were told this was the endtimes. David Koresh told his sheep that this was the endtimes so he could have sex with 12 year old girls. Anecdotes are not evidence. The signs are not there. You have not convinced me. I believe the Bible. I just don't believe your interpretation of it. Sorry to disappoint you GS, but from the best I can tell, these are not the endtimes. I guess we'll just have to do what Christ told us. Spread the gospel the correct way. With love, not fear. | ||
| rebelrenegade (rebelrenegade) New member Username: rebelrenegade Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.214.86.140 |
Here is some statistics about rape and sexual violence. FBI (Federal Bureau of Investigations) 1999 1 in 4 girls will be sexually assaulted by the time they are 18 years old. 1 in 6 boys will be sexually assaulted by the time they are 18 years old. 1 in 3 women will be raped in her lifetime. 1 in 5 men will be sexually assaulted in his lifetime. CASA (Center Against Sexual Abuse) 2001 It is estimated that 10% of all sexual assaults happen to men. Only 16% of all rapes are reported to the police. 46% of rape survivors consider or attempt suicide. RAINN (Rape Abuse & Incest National Network) Statistics Rape and Sexual Assault Up Again in 1999, Continue to Buck National Crime Trend The total # of rapes, attempted rapes and sexual assaults increased to 383,000 last year, up 50,000 from 1998’s 333,000 total attacks. The # of completed rapes increased by about 30,000. The # of sexual assaults rose by 50,000. Overall totals increased by 13.3% Since 1996, rapes and sexual assaults have increased as other violent crimes decrease. The combined total of completed and attempted rapes and sexual assaults has gone up by 21% since 1996, while sexual assault is up by 60%. 69% of victims knew their assailant, versus 54% for victims of all violent crimes. A weapon was present in only 5% of rapes. In those cases, the weapon was equally likely to be a gun or knife. Rape is the most UNDERREPORTED violent crime. 28.3% of rapes were reported to police in 1999, down from 31.6% in 1998. Among all violent crimes, 44% of victims reported their attack to the police. About 89% of victims were female, 11% male. Of every 1,000 women 12 and older, 3 were sexually assaulted or raped last year. For men, the rate was .4 per 1000. Young women and poor women continued to be far more at risk of an attack than any other demographic group. People living in households with an income under $25,000/yr are about 3 TIMES more likely to be sexually attacked than those living in households making more than $25,000/yr. Blacks were more likely to be raped than whites—2.6 per 1,000 people versus 1.6 per 1,000, respectively. Department of Justice Teens between 16-19 years of age were 3.5 times more likely than the general population to be victims of sexual assault. The rate of rape/sexual assault for victims with an annual household income of less than $7,500 was 5.2 per 1,000 vs. a rate of less than 2 per 1,000 for all higher income brackets. 62% of rapes/sexual assaults were committed by "non-strangers." Rape and sexual assault are the least often reported crime to law enforcement (28%). 50% of rape victims were under the age of 18. National Crime Victimization Survey There was a 29.4% decrease in the rate of rape/sexual assaults from 1999 to 2000, a 52% decrease since 1993. The rate of rape/sexual assault for victims with an annual household income of less than $7,500 was 5.2/1,000 vs. a rate of less than 2/1,000 for all higher income brackets. 62% of rapes/sexual assaults were committed by "non-strangers." 84% of rapes/sexual assaults did not involve a weapon. 48.1% of rapes/sexual assaults were reported to the police in 2000, vs. about 30% in all previous years (1993-1999). Bureau of Justice Statistics—National Crime Victimization Survey. Crime Victimization 1999: Changes 1998-99 with Trends 1993-99. August 2000, NCJ. Here is some information about Gun violence. School Safety Between 1994 and 1999, there were 220 school associated violent events resulting in 253 deaths - - 74.5% of these involved firearms. Handguns caused almost 60% of these deaths. (Journal of American Medical Association, December 2001) In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000) Nearly 8% of adolescents in urban junior and senior high schools miss at least one day of school each month because they are afraid to attend. (National Mental Health & Education Center for Children & Families, National Association of School Psychologists 1998) The National School Boards Association estimates that more than 135,000 guns are brought into U.S. schools each day. (NSBA, 1993) Children and Gun Violence America is losing too many children to gun violence. Between 1979 and 2001, gunfire killed 90,000 children and teens in America. (Children's Defense Fund and National Center for Health Statistics) In one year, more children and teens died from gunfire than from cancer, pneumonia, influenza, asthma, and HIV/AIDS combined. (Children's Defense Fund) The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) America and Gun Violence Every day, more than 80 Americans die from gun violence. (Coalition to Stop Gun Violence) The rate of firearm deaths among kids under age 15 is almost 12 times higher in the United States than in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control and Prevention) American kids are 16 times more likely to be murdered with a gun, 11 times more likely to commit suicide with a gun, and nine times more likely to die from a firearm accident than children in 25 other industrialized countries combined. (Centers for Disease Control) Guns in the Wrong Hands Americans for Gun Safety produced a 2003 report that reveals that 20 of the nation’s 22 national gun laws are not enforced. According to U.S. Department of Justice data (FY 2000-2002), only 2% of federal gun crimes were actually prosecuted. Eighty-five percent of cases prosecuted relate to street criminals in possession of firearms. Ignored are laws intended to punish illegal gun trafficking, firearm theft, corrupt gun dealers, lying on a criminal background check form, obliterating firearm serial numbers, selling guns to minors and possessing a gun in a school zone. To access The Enforcement Gap: Federal Gun Laws Ignored, visit http://w3.agsfoundation.com/. For a state-by-state chart of gun crimes (FY 2000-2002), click here. Studies show that 1 percent of gun stores sell the weapons traced to 57 percent of gun crimes. According to the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms (ATF), the dealer that armed the DC area sniper is among this small group of problem gun dealers that "supply the suppliers" who funnel guns to the nation's criminals. (Between 1997 and 2001, guns sold by this dealer were involved in 52 crimes, including homicides, kidnappings and assaults. Still open today, it also can't account for 238 guns or say whether they were stolen, lost or sold, or if their buyers underwent felony-background checks.) As a result, these few gun dealers have a vastly disproportionate impact on public safety. The ATF can recognize such dealers based on: (1) guns stolen from inventory; (2) missing federal sales records, needed by police to solve crimes; (3) having 10 weapons a year traced to crimes; (4) frequently selling multiple guns to individual buyers; and (5) short times between gun sales and their involvement in crimes. Yet ATF enforcement is weak due to a lack of Congressional support and resources. For more details, click here. Terrorists have purchased firearms at gun shows, where unlicensed sellers are not currently required to conduct background checks or to ask for identification. According to the Middle East Intelligence Report, for example, a Hezbollah member was arrested in November 2000, after a nine-month investigation by the FBI's counter-terrorism unit. Ali Boumelhem was later convicted on seven counts of weapons charges and conspiracy to ship weapons and ammunition to Lebanon. Federal agents had observed Boumelhem, a resident of Detroit and Beirut, travel to Michigan gun shows and buy gun parts and ammunition for shipment overseas. Boumelhem was prohibited from legally purchasing guns as gun stores because he was a convicted felon. Additional cases involve a Pakistani national with an expired (1988) student visa; a Lebanese native and Hamas member with numerous felony convictions; and a supporter of the Irish Republican Army. (USA Today, Wednesday, November 28, 2001 Americans for Gun Safety) According to Americans for Gun Safety (December 2002), gun theft is most likely in states without laws requiring safe storage of firearms in the home and where there are large numbers of gun owners and relatively high crime rates. Based on FBI data, nearly 1.7 million guns have been reported stolen in the past ten years, and only 40% of those were recovered. The missing guns, over 80% of which are taken from homes or cars, most likely fuel the black market for criminals. NEA, AGS and the National Rifle Association advocate for safe storage. To access "Stolen Guns: Arming the Enemy" visit www.agsfoundation.com. The American Medical Association reports that between 36% and 50% of male eleventh graders believe that they could easily get a gun if they wanted one. In 1998-99 academic year, 3,523 students were expelled for bringing a firearm to school. This is a decrease from the 5,724 students expelled in 1996-97 for bringing a firearm to school. (U.S. Department of Education, October 2000) According to a report by the Joshephson Institute of Ethics (2000 Report Card: Report #1), 60% of high school and 31% of middle school boys said they could get a gun if they wanted to (April, 2001). Here is some stats for Austrailia. In the past 10 years, the prisoner population in Australia increased by nearly 50%, from 15,866 in 1993 to 23,555 in 2003, according to figures released today by the Australian Bureau of Statistics (ABS). This increase has exceeded the 15% growth in the Australian adult population in the same period. From 1993 to 2003 (at 30 June), the female prisoner population increased by 110%, compared to a 45% increase in the male prisoner population. Overall, the adult imprisonment rate increased from 119 to 153 prisoners per 100,000 adult population. Other changes in the prison population in the 1993-2003 period include: The proportion of Indigenous people in the prison population has risen from 15% to 20%; The mean age of prisoners has increased from 31 years to 34 years; The proportion of unsentenced prisoners has increased from 12% to 20%; The proportion of sentenced prisoners serving an aggregate sentence length of 10 years or more has increased from 9% to 13%; and Sentenced prisoners with a most serious offence of homicide and related offences increased from 9% to 10% and assault from 11% to 13%. At June 2003, there were 23,555 prisoners in Australia, an increase of 5% since 30 June 2002. The mean aggregate sentence length was 4.9 years and the mean expected time to serve was 3.2 years. Other findings as at 30 June 2003 include: Indigenous prisoners were proportionally more likely to be serving shorter sentences than the overall prisoner population, with 42% of Indigenous prisoners expected to serve less than 12 months. This is compared with 31% of all prisoners; Nearly 55% of prisoners were males aged 20-34 years; Females represented 7% of the total prisoner population; Almost 60% of male prisoners and 50% of female prisoners are known to have prior imprisonment; and Nearly 1 in 2 sentenced prisoners had a most serious offence involving violence or the threat of violence. If violence isn't on the rise then how come more and more people are barring up there windows now and locking themselves inside there house. How come there are more murders and violence done in the last 10 years alone? Here is a website for California's crime rates alone. http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/cacrime.htm And here is the website for statistics of violence in the United States. http://www.disastercenter.com/crime/uscrime.htm I think that will aboout do it. Those stats are probably not too accurate, but I believe they are close. Sorry it is so long everyone. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 75 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Less and less faith in the Lord. More and more have the spirit of fear (which comes from satan). Higher population increases statistics also. Still waiting on evidence. I am watching but am not paranoid. Whatever happens the Lord will protect me and my family. | ||
| rebelrenegade (rebelrenegade) New member Username: rebelrenegade Post Number: 23 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.214.86.140 |
Less and less faith in the Lord. More and more have the spirit of fear (which comes from satan). Higher population increases statistics also. Still waiting on evidence. I am watching but am not paranoid. Whatever happens the Lord will protect me and my family. First off. I want you to point out where I said I have no faith in the Lord. Number one, You do not know me. You do not know how much Faith I have in God. So stop making assumptions that everyone on here who chooses to watch the world around them and watch what is happening Biblically has no faith in God Second. Did I say I was afraid or paranoid in that Post? No, I didn't. Another Assumption. The more the world goes to Hell in a handbasket the more and more excited I get knowing how close the Lord's coming is. Now that is not saying that I do not care about mankind. I pray that everyone would get saved and start living for Christ. For you to sit there and make those statements about someone you hardly know is ridiculous. And besides, How do you know he will protect you and your family? There have been many good christian families die. I believe there death was for a cause, to further the gospel of Christ. You can't turn a blinds eye to the violence in the world. God will protect you no doubt about that, but doesn't he expect us to use a little bit of common sense and try not to get ourselves in a violent situation in the first place? If I know there is a Good Possibility that I will get hurt violently, then I do not get myself into it, unless God wants me there or I am trying to witness to people who need Christ. You can sit there and say God will protect me and my family from all violence, but there may be that one time God will say no. I want him to go thru it for a reason. Does that mean God will put you in a violent situation? No. God allows things to happen to us to help us to grow as Christians or to Bless us. Violently or non-violently. Me for example. I have epilepsy. Just came on and I prayed and prayed for God to heal me, but he didn't. Because of a lack of Faith? No. I get a check from V.A for the rest of my life. 597.00 dollars a month. God uses anything there is to Bless us. Anyway, You need to think before you type something about people on here not having Faith in God. | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) New member Username: just_curious Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.110.91.245 |
Rebelrenegade -- maybe I'm missing something, but as I understood it, your premise was that there was more violence than 50 years ago. You gave all the stats (many of which are projections or estimates, not actual figures) for the present but there are no numbers from 50 years ago to compare to -- do you have those available? Thanks! | ||
| marie (marie) New member Username: marie Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.255.96.72 |
Rebelrenegade - I think your thinking regarding the violence in the world is a little narrow in scope. It seems to me that here in America, where we are so blessed, we are incredibly ignorant of what goes on in other places and throughout history. It has been my observation that when Americans talk about the book of Revelation, they center everything on themselves and our country. The fact is that mans inhumanity to man is as old as civilization itself. The violence and terror perpetrated throughout history did not begin in America and does not end here. In fact, it doesn't even climax here. The first 50 years of the last century were marked by the slaughter of tens of millions of innocent people, from Hitler to Stalin and on down the line. I remember reading somewhere that this was perhaps the bloodiest time in recorded history. However, the brutality was nothing new, only the efficiency in execution. Have you heard of the Doctrine of Imminent Return? This is the belief that Christ's return is about to occur. This doctrine has been around since the earliest days of Christianity. Simply read the epistles. Every age has it's monsters and evil men. Every age has it's natural disasters and wars and plagues. Ours is no different. Matthew 6 6 And ye shall hear of wars and rumours of wars:for all these things must come to pass, BUT THE END IS NOT YET. 7 For nation shall rise against nation, and kingdom against kingdom: and there shall be famines, and pestilences, and earthquakes, in divers places. We, however, must always be prepared for Christ's coming, for He will indeed come for each of us in our own lives. Is this the beginning of the end? I don't know. Maybe. Maybe not. But whether or not it is should make no difference in how I live my life. I must live my life in such a way that I am ready to face the judgement seat of Christ at any moment. None of us is guaranteed another breath. Should trials and tribulations and persecutions come, we must rely on God's grace for the strength to endure what we must as have countless others throughout history and throughout the world today. That same chapter in Matthew talks about the abomination of desolation in the temple. As there is no temple at this time, I don't see how you can think this is the end time. I do believe things are taking shape through other events in the world tho. No man knows the time (Jesus said He didn't even know), but we can recognize the season. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Junior Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 29 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.8.126.145 |
Rebelrenegade I read over the statistics that you presented. Several questions and points immediately came to mind. You never actually proved your point, as Just_curious said your premise was that there was more violence than 50 years ago. You gave all the stats (many of which are projections or estimates, not actual figures) for the present but there are no numbers from 50 years ago to compare to… Second, Marie made an excellent point when she said Have you heard of the Doctrine of Imminent Return? This is the belief that Christ's return is about to occur. This doctrine has been around since the earliest days of Christianity. Simply read the epistles. Every age has it's monsters and evil men. Every age has it's natural disasters and wars and plagues. Ours is no different. History shows that endtimes talk gets really big when rounding of dates appear. That is, many people thought the world was going to end in the year 1000 C.E. That kind of talk also increased when the year 2000 approached as well. Now as far as the actual data presented: 1) The population has increased in the last 50 years. So, when doing any sort of valid comparison, you must have both the total number and the percentage. Your data only shows the number. That is, assuming the population doubled and the number of crimes doubled, then the number of crimes doubled, but the percentage of crimes stayed the same. 2) You showed a lot of statistics for rape, however the criminology of rape has changed tremendously in the last 50 years. It is nearly impossible to compare the incidence of rape now to 50 years ago. a) There are new categories of reportable rape. For example, the crime of date rape wasn’t even reported 50 years ago. That doesn’t mean that it didn’t exist. b) In the past, rape had a stigma for the victim. 50 years ago, more people were willing to blame the victim. In addition, the woman was ostracized for even reporting a rape. So many women were too afraid to step forward. And that’s just in the US. Even today, in the Arab world, women that are raped are typically killed by their own families in order to regain the lost honor of the family. 3) Reporting has improved in the past 50 years. Many crimes suffered by non-whites were not taken seriously by the police and weren't reported. However, lynchings and other violence against blacks have been reduced tremendously in the last 50 years. 4) Behavior that wasn’t criminal in the past is criminal today. Examples of new crimes are stalking, identity theft and wife-beating. Other than anecdotal evidence from the elderly reminiscing about the “good old days”, I see no evidence that there is more violence now, than 50 years ago. On the contrary, I believe that there is less violence now than then. | ||
| daneila (daneila) New member Username: daneila Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.125.141.90 |
Has everyone heard the story of the man who heard on the radio that a massive storm was coming and that eveyone needed to leave the town because it would last for days and cause a major flood, the man turned off the radio and said "God will take care of me". so the rains came and the flood was great, the lower level of the man's house began to fill with the water, the man went upstairs and looked out a window. there he saw a small boat passing by, the people in the caft called to the man "come with us we will help you get to safety" the man hollard back "No, God will take care of me" and he slamed the window close. the rains continued to pour and the man was forced to move up to the roof of his home, there a helicopter was passing over him, they lowered a rope and hollowered down "grab the rope and we will take you to saftey" but the man waved them away yelling "God will take care of me". The rain continued to pour and while the man remained on his roof, he was quickly loosing room to stand and he cried out to God,"Lord where are you? I have trusted in you, that you would save me and now you have left me here to die." Then he heard God reply, "I sent you a warning through the radio, I sent a boat to resuce you and I sent a Helicopeter to save you, but you have refused them all what would you have me to do to save you." marie, rr, and GS, my spirit bears witness to the truth you speak and the sensarity of your hearts. When Jesus was asked by the people to give them a sign that he was the Son of God, he told them that it is a foolish generation that asks for signs and wonders. He also questioned them, how it was that they were able to recognize the change in the seasons and the weather but they could not recognize the day of the age they where living. Again (Paul, I think it was Paul in the new testament) says that in the last days there will be scoffers and those that say life goes on as it always has, peace, peace. And that it is a sin to have controversies over doctrines and interpretations because it causes hurt feelings and devisions among the believers while pushing the "world" away. As I recall the devil has another little talent, and that is to distort the word or God, take veses out of context and wieled it against the belives, using his distortions to keep the unsaved ignorant as well. When Jesus said, "therefore I tell you do not worry about what you will eat or what you will wear for the world runs after these things and your heavenly father knows what you have need of them" He pefaced that by saying store up for yourselves treasue in heaven...for where your treasue is there your heart will be also. As long as we are working to unite the church and bring the lost to Christ we don't have anything to worry about. I know pesonally of how God can create provisions out of what appears to be nothing. I do not fear the coming of the Lord because I have a closeness with him that is based on the sacrifice Jesus made. And I know where my treasue is. It appears to me that those who cry "fearmonger" are the ones who are truly fearful because their treasure is here. What ever end my sevice to God will entail I want to be ready. some will and are being killed for their faith in Jesus Christ. History tells us that when bad things happen here in the U.S. it starts first in other countries. marie, rr and gs - do not allow the Devil to steal your joy or your faith, he is devisive and be aware of his scheme., some posters here on this board have said hurtful things in direct opposition to the charater of Chirst, and yet they do it in his name. Be of good comfort for it is not you they rage against it is the word of God and what He has to say about our "comfort zones' here on earth. Remember also that the bible says in Proverbs not to become intangled in arguments with a mocker and the foolish. It says to rebuke a foolish man only twice and then if he refuses to listen walk away for we shall not cast our perls to swine. By responding to thier hurtful remarks we feed thier egos and fulfill satan's plan to split us apart. The bible also says that if you have a problem with a fellow beliver and after you have corrected him yet he refuses to listen take it to the body of the church and by the mouth of two or three witness the thing shall be established. In my posts and qotes of the bible, either direct or summary, I have made very little mention of the book of Revelation. I belive that the whole word of God is relevant for each of us eveyday, and that it must be used in unison. You can't just pick and choose the veses you like and dump the rest. Let those who say "the end is not yet, things go on as they always have" continue with their heads in the sand if after two attemtps to share a different perspective has failed. They are right God will take care of them in his own time in his own way. We are not their Holy Spirit. I would like to continue conversing with those who are working to bring the lost to Christ in the spirt of Love and fear and Admonition of the Lord and also treating their brothers and sisters with gentleness and love and mutual respect of opinions and beliefs, setting aside all our prides. I am glad to have found this site, so many intelligent and passionate opinions being debated. Waiting for your reponses to mine and to others has become addictive. I only want to see us united in the spirit of encouragement on the front of this war between good and evil. P.S. I am a writter sometimes my lyircs are hardcore and sometimes they are soft and sweet but always always always ment with love because I do fear the Lord and I don't want him to condemn me for my ager and ruthless tongue. So if anyone has been offeneded or hurt or made to feel fear because of what I have said I am sorry. My heart is with you and I ask for your forgiveness. I may not Know you personally but by the spirit of God we are bound together being one body in Christ. Love, Daneila (Message edited by daneila on November 11, 2004) | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 77 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
"And besides, How do you know he will protect you and your family? There have been many good christian families die. I believe there death was for a cause, to further the gospel of Christ." What kind of messed up doctrine is that? If I am killed it is because I stepped out of God's protective shield and satan attacked me. Can't blame God if it happens. If I choose to be a martyr for God, then it will happen because I chose it. God gives me wisdom. I have to use it in all things. "And I know where my treasue is. It appears to me that those who cry "fearmonger" are the ones who are truly fearful because their treasure is here." I know where my treasure is. It is in my heart. Not in the material world. My treasure is in heaven and in knowing I have everlasting life. You are reacting this way because my words sound strange to you. There are many different views in the body of Christ other than just who you selectively converse with. You are hearing them now. Don't shut them out. The Kingdom of God is at hand! | ||
| marie (marie) New member Username: marie Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.255.96.72 |
franklin, So you believe that all the martyrs throughout the ages, and those currently being martyred throughout the world are being killed or persecuted because either 1. They have stepped out of the will of God or 2. They have chosen it? | ||
| just_curious (just_curious) New member Username: just_curious Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 69.110.91.245 |
"In fact, everyone who wants to live a godly life in Christ Jesus WILL BE PERSECUTED" 2 Tim.3:12 If you choose to follow Christ, you are choosing to be persecuted. | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
just_curious, Amen to everything you Said! p.s- Franklin, it is Imperative that you understand that Choosing God automatically brings the Powers of Darkness against us. God is in control but sometimes his Will is not Your Will. There are reasons for everything such as, the death of a Christian. God knows best and only he knows whether each of us will Live or Perish. If we perish, im sure it is for the better. VGOD BLESS | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Franklin, Please explain to me what your pointing to. From my above post on Thursday, November 11, 2004 - 12:40 am: , I do not give any interpretation of the Bible but give direct knowledge from my elders. Also I am worried about your thoughts about End Times. First you tell us your christian and believe only the Bible. Then you turn around and say these are not the End Times. How have you come to this conclusion? The Bible says Only God knows the Day and Hour. However, He does tell us to watch for signs and wonders. I feel these signs and wonders are happening at this very moment. VGOD BLESS | ||
| daneila (daneila) New member Username: daneila Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.125.141.90 |
j_c and marie, point well given. anything eles is contrary to the word of God and makes a mockery of every martyr whose only crime was loving the one true God which in reality is an honor; to live and die for his name sake. But to get back to the topic of conversation, will anyone here like to have the veri-chip injected, for say...identification, security, medical, buying and selling and all the other things imaginable that it is capable of? Yes or no? why or why not? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 80 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.164.4.45 |
I come under persecution everytime I speak of Christ or the truth He spoke. Either at work, in the world or here on factnet. That comes with the territory. But do I chose to lose my job by spreading the gospel? No. I chose the time and opportunity. Stephen, the first Christian martyr knew the consequences before He spoke the truth he spoke. He chose to be a martyr. Many of the Christians who were fed to the lions in the Roman coliseum chose to be martyrs. Martin Luther could have chose to be a martyr many times. But he wisely chose to avoid martyrship because the time was right to set up a new church. He accomplished more by avoiding torture and execution and instead lived to do God's work. In most cases, God's will can be done better by Christians living and doing His will than by dying. Christ died for our sins. What more needs to be done than that. Persecution is a Christian's life. Martyrdom is a different story. You'd better know what you are talking about when you say that God wants us to die violently. What does that accomplish? I can accomplish more by living, spreading the gospel and raising children who will do the same. GS, " If we perish, im sure it is for the better." You first. I'm getting sick and tired of the insinuations that anyone who doesn't believe these are the end times is not saved. Daneila, The answer is no. Anybody who wants the chip is nuts. It will be rejected by the majority. You see a glass half empty. I see a glass half full and slowly filling to the brim. The word of God's love is overflowing in man's heart. It is contagious and will spread to all ends of the earth. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Junior Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 32 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
GodsServant just_curious, Amen to everything you Said! [Which was If you choose to follow Christ, you are choosing to be persecuted.] What does being persecuted mean? It seems to me that being persecuted and being saved mesh. It seems logical to me that if you become persecuted, that generates a need to be saved. Franklin, it is Imperative that you understand that Choosing God [i.e. Jebus] automatically brings the Powers of Darkness against us. GodsServant, if choosing your deity results in the Powers of Darkness being against you then it seems better not to choose your deity at all. If you get one, then you automatically get the other. It seems best for a non-Christian person to choose neither and avoid this cosmic package deal. Thinking further upon your statements, it seems that choosing your religion doesn’t generate any advantages. Before choosing your deity, a person isn’t persecuted and thus doesn’t need saving. Before choosing your deity, that deity doesn’t notice you, but neither does the Powers of Darkness. | ||
| marie (marie) New member Username: marie Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.184.137.143 |
Franklin - You are showing a surprising lack of knowledge in the area of martyrs and martydom. When one is faced with the choice of denying Christ or dying, what kind of choice is that? Yet that is the choice that has been faced by countless people throughout history and even in the world today. You seem to have fallen into the false doctrine of Triumphalism - the belief that if anything bad happens to a Christian it is because they lack faith or because they have fallen into sin. What was Job's sin? What was the sin of the man born blind in the gospel? BTW - I think it's a joke what American Christians consider persecution. Someone disagreeing with you is not persecution. Someone getting angry and letting you know it because you've tried to beat them over the head with the gospel is not persecution. Living in a society where it is illegal to worship God, where doing so can cost you your job, your family or your life - THAT is persecution. GS - Do you think that if a christian does not necessarily believe these are the end times they are not saved? Yaakov - It seems to me the Jewish people are the most persecuted in the history of the world. What then is the advantage of being Jewish? | ||
| marie (marie) New member Username: marie Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.184.137.143 |
daneila - I would not want the veri-chip injected in me. Not necessarily because I believe it's the mark of the beast - it's just plain creepy even without that possibility. I doubt many Americans would go along with it - there are still too many of us paranoid of big brother. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.164.4.45 |
Marie, if I am given a choice of denying Christ or dying, I would probably die. I can't say that for certain. Peter promised He would die alongside Christ and yet he denied Him. I said that a Christian has a choice to be a martyr or not. I could walk into any biker bar in my area and start preaching, but I would probably be dead before the night is over. I choose not to do that. What purpose would that serve? I can be a better servant for the Lord in other areas. I have been persecuted many times for being a Christian. I have lost at least one job for being a Christian. It is happening here in America. Doesn't mean that this is the end times. It has happened throughout the centuries. Job's sin was pride. Satan stepped in. People can be born blind because of the medical condition or genetics of his ancestors. God does not make bad things happen to people. Satan does. But God can allow good to come from tragedy. Understand that. I don't go along with "nail your suffering to the cross". To me that means that we are meant to suffer. That is a masochist's life. If I seek God my suffering will minimal and self induced. If I do not seek God, then I will suffer much. Satan loves to torment us. I don't blame God for the bad things in my life. I blame myself for not clinging closer to God. Read Daneila's 11-11 2:40 P.M. It says in so many words that if you do not agree with her that these are the endtimes then you are a fool and a pawn of Satan. Might as well accuse me of not being saved. I didn't know that the predicters of doomsday sit at the right hand of God. I thought that was where Christ sat. | ||
| daneila (daneila) New member Username: daneila Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.106 |
"You see a glass half empty." -franklin. It was just a question, although you know how i feel about it, if some stranger asked you that same question you would not suppose they were insinuating that if you did you would be taking the mark of the beast. i have not put anyone on the outside, if someone takes my remarks personally then it is their pride that spurs it. I have the right to speak to those how speak kindly to me. do unto others it matters not if you agree but you don't have to "yell". If you knew me more personally you would not think i was so negative, just passionate. I know that you are saved i believe you. i wish that you could see that we are on the same side, each of us has a job to do in the body of christ. it's not to bash eachother. i'll refrain from the 'mud slinging' can you? As marie brought up there are alot of other things that need to come into play before all of the end time prophesies are fullfilled. i admit perhaps i was jumping the gun a bit but my views about the chip being a tool to usher in the works of the anti-christ remain the same. Yaakov - you didn't answer my question?  but i would also like to say that although from the outside looking in being a christian may seem to be a real bad idea, infact i have heard it stated that being a chrisitan isn't for the weak but for the brave and the true. persecutions come in all shapes and sizes, the bible says that in order to become more Christ like we must go thru firey trials, the way gold is purified. Every religon is persecuted, muslims, jews, christians, but i think being a christian comes down to three major things that the world and other religons have trouble with and that is: 1. Jesus Christ is the son of God, who lived a perfect sinless life, Gave his life for the sake of us sinners inorder to build a bridge to eternal life with God. 2. That the Holy Spirit is alive inside every one who belives the above and is given to each freely as an encourager, counselor, and a as a seal that each was purchased with the blood of Christ. That is to say they have excepted him as their Savior, as their God. 3. That the Bible is the infalible word of God. Which states that their is only one God, the God of Abraham, Issac and Moses, the Father of Jesus Christ and all who have accepted him as their savior. It says that if you don't accept Christ you cannot enter the kingdom of God. For Christians we choose the Kingdom of God anyday over spending an eternity in hell even if that means suffering trials and tribulations of everykind, great and small here in this life. And out of our love for Christ we choose to serve him and strive to bring honor and glory to his name, because of the love that he demonstrated by laying down his life. GS - you didn't answer my question either. Merie, and Franklin, i agree that at first many americans will think it too strange and just another way the government is trying to infiltrate our privacy. But (just a question) do you find it ironic that Satan has brought about all this reality t.v. inorder to desinitize us? Or should i say do you agree that perhaps reality t.v. is being used to desinitize us? And if yes or no - do you think that once this technology is introduced into the movies and comercials and sitcombs, that americans will begin to become more relaxed? these are only questions i just want to know your views inorder to refine my own, thank you. oh no i just burt my son's french fries!! Daneila daneila | ||
| daneila (daneila) New member Username: daneila Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.106 |
Read Daneila's 11-11 2:40 P.M. It says in so many words that if you do not agree with her that these are the endtimes then you are a fool and a pawn of Satan. Might as well accuse me of not being saved. I didn't know that the predicters of doomsday sit at the right hand of God. I thought that was where Christ sat." - that was not the summary of my words but you can say whatever you like, you are devisive and a manupulator, and you appear to be more of a wolf dressed in sheep's clothing. if anyone is suffering persecution here it is me by one who claims to be a brother. but i am honored to accept it because again i know it is not me you oppose it is the word of God many times i have offered you my hand in friendship but you spit on it. Christ like i'm sure. | ||
| daneila (daneila) New member Username: daneila Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.106 |
p.s. "The Kingdom of God is at hand." - franklin Nov. 6 10:53 p.m. "The Kingdom of God is at hand!" - franklin Nov. 11 9:13 p.m. how come it is o.k. for you to declare "the kingdom of God is at hand" and you'r just "spreading the gospel of love. But anyone else who you feel is opposed to you is fearmongering and sent from satan to drag eveyone into a cult. i wasn't going to respond your remarks about the book of acts but now i think i will. "For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from sales and put it at the apostles feet and it was distributed to anyone who had need." First of all it says "from time to time those who owned" not everyone did it and not all the time if everyone did it then they wouldn't have had homes to house the first churches. Second you said that all my talk about laying it at the apostles feet was "cultic and dangerous". the quote: "That talk about giving all to an apostle is cultic and dangerous." But these are not my words, this is the Bible, the holy and just word of God. Are you calling God's word cultic and dangerous? If you are then you're right we are not on the same side and your words are strange to me. the bible says you shall know them by their fruit. i don't recognize you. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) New member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 24.17.18.246 |
When crime is measured by police agencies, it's percentages, not quantities. There is more crime in the US now because there are far far more people around then when our grandparents were young people. But the percentages are low. They are lower than what they were a couple decades ago, in many cases. Did you know that in 19th century England it was not safe for ANY woman to go out walking alone in broad daylight? Even in a ritzy neighborhood? At all? Whereas out here, I could certainly go walking in a very nice neighborhood with no problem, and I've even done it in areas that were decidedly not so nice. And that it was routine to see tiny children begging, starving, hooking, and nobody batted an eye? There was no such thing as Child Protective Services then. Nobody had any civil rights. I live in a large major city. On two separate occasions, my husband kind of ditzed out and left not only our door unlocked but wide open with only the storm door (with glass in front so you can see into the house. Screens in Summer) there. Each time, we got home and nothing was touched. Not that I advocate tempting fate like that, but there are parts of the world in which you could never do that. Other ways society has changed: we're more literate now. Used to be that only the clergy knew how to read. Then it was just the upper stratum of society plus clerical and church workers. I've only seen about 5 people in my whole life sign a document with an "X" and I only saw that many 'cuz of the field of business in which I work. It used to be that when Queen Mary was alive, if you went to Mass and looked away from the host during Mass, you could be executed as a heretic or witch. Then, later, when Elizabeth took over- and this is well after the Dark Ages supposedly ended- you could still, even with the replacement of the Catholic church with the Church of England- be arrested and tried for atheism just for skipping church on Sunday or saying one little thing. Jurors had no rights. They basically just tossed them into a room and locked them in til they arrived on a verdict. As late as the 19th century, servants - not slaves- but servants- in Europe had to get permission to get married. They didn't have the rights citizens today had. Slavery was legal. Then, after the Civil war when black slavery was made illegal, there still were poor (of European/Caucasian origin) children sold into slavery. I saw a book by a lady whose grandfather had been such a one. And people knew and did nothing. Women used to have hardly any rights at all til the 1920's here and a full ten years later in England. I don't see a society that is getting worse. Quite the contrary. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Junior Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 35 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.205.188.53 |
Daneila will anyone here like to have the veri-chip injected, for say...identification, security, medical, buying and selling and all the other things imaginable that it is capable of? Yes or no? why or why not? Many people already have something like this. They are eagerly purchased by many people for various reasons. We have cell phones by which your movements can be tracked. We have lo-jack systems which can track our cars. We have security alarms which monitor our movements within our houses. We have On-Star which can track our cars and open locked doors. We have the internet which can trace our cyber space movements. We have credit cards which can track our financial dealings. IMO, it won’t be long until people can get their cell phone implanted into their skulls. They will do it to have hands-free phones, phones that never get lost, etc. They will also be able to be tracked, possibly have all their conversations monitored (even when the phone is “off”.) It is not a big leap to assume that people will have this chip implanted whether for anti-kidnapping purposes, medical monitoring, or other reasons. Personally, I won’t have any of these devices (except internet) until I am forced to. It is getting close. It gets tougher every day to find pay phones in working order. being a christian comes down to three major things that the world and other religons have trouble with… Daneila, Judaism doesn’t have trouble with these three items. We disbelieve all three. All of them run counter to our God and the Tanakh. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 92 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.172.135.144 |
"For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from sales and put it at the apostles feet and it was distributed to anyone who had need." So what is the relevance of that verse to us today? What is the point you were trying to make by quoting that verse? It depends on whether you believe there are recognizable apostles walking the earth today. The Bible tells us who were the apostles and to be a Christian you have to believe that they were. Without scripture how would we know today for sure who is a true apostle and who is a pawn of satan? We can't. Modern cults all have an "apostle, prophet, self annointed one, self appointed man or woman of God" as their intermediary between the cult victims/members and God. They worship their cult leaders like a rock, movie or sports star. They shut out the Holy Spirit and let a flim flam artist pervert the scripture for them to enrich the cult leader and supply the leader's hedonistic lifestyle. The cultees do everything included selling their homes and possessions and giving all the proceeds to their incarcerator. I know many who have. So that verse is used to fleece the flock. The Bible is infallible. But verses are used out of context by satan to destroy the body of Christ. Satan's biggest tool to destroy and discredit the Christian church is the cults. And the liar uses the Bible to create and sustain them. Why you brought up that verse into this discussion I don't understand. Could you please explain why. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 93 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.172.135.144 |
"oh no i just burt my son's french fries!!" How do you "burt" french fries? Is that some new recipe I am not aware of? If so, could you please share it with the world. I love french fries and would be interested to try making them some other way. | ||
| daneila (daneila) New member Username: daneila Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 198.81.26.106 |
hey i'm a single mom sometimes it's easier to cook frozen fries in the oven except when you get carried away doing something else. turns out i had to go and buy him some anyway! so much for easier! i would love to get back to all the commnts made above but later, i've got some writting to do, have a good day eveyone!! | ||
| franklin (franklin) Member Username: franklin Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.156.226.245 |
"If you knew me more personally you would not think i was so negative, just passionate. I know that you are saved i believe you." I feel I know you. But, stop being so negative. As for you believing I am saved it is not important. As long as Jesus knows me and I know that I am saved, that is what is important. But let's examine what you said about me right after you said that: "that was not the summary of my words but you can say whatever you like, you are devisive and a manupulator, and you appear to be more of a wolf dressed in sheep's clothing." If I can divide you and others from the doomsday prophets I have accomplished some good. "if anyone is suffering persecution here it is me by one who claims to be a brother. but i am honored to accept it because again i know it is not me you oppose it is the word of God many times i have offered you my hand in friendship but you spit on it. Christ like i'm sure." I am your brother. I don't oppose the word of God, just your doom and gloom interpretation of it. I haven't spit on your hand. But I won't lick it either. This is a free discussion. You can't make french fries without peeling and cutting potatoes. Christlike I try. But will never be perfect like Him. "how come it is o.k. for you to declare "the kingdom of God is at hand" and you'r just "spreading the gospel of love. But anyone else who you feel is opposed to you is fearmongering and sent from satan to drag eveyone into a cult." that was not the summary of my words but you can say whatever you like. "If you are then you're right we are not on the same side and your words are strange to me. the bible says you shall know them by their fruit. i don't recognize you." I don't dispute the Bible. I dispute taking scripture out of context to decieve Christians by scam artists only wanting to fleece the flock. "I know that you are saved i believe you." The previous statements attack my belief. As long as Jesus knows me and I know I'm saved, man's opinion doesn't matter. But hey, I forgive you. Forgive me if you think I was too harsh with you. | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Yaakov, What does being persecuted mean? It seems to me that being persecuted and being saved mesh. It seems logical to me that if you become persecuted, that generates a need to be saved. Yaakov, point well taken. You now understand that being saved and being persecuted come as a package deal. When you are saved your automatically going to become persecuted. However, to be persecuted does not mean that one would need to be saved. Its the other way around. GodsServant, if choosing your deity results in the Powers of Darkness being against you then it seems better not to choose your deity at all. If you get one, then you automatically get the other. It seems best for a non-Christian person to choose neither and avoid this cosmic package deal. Serving my God is a honor because the Saved will reap treasures far greater than what this world has to offer. Choosing My God is Choosing Life over Death. I choose to Live. Yes, it is true that choosing God will bring the Powers of Darkness against us because Satan will tempt us when we are Saved. Satan is in a constant battle to lead people astray from the True God. You mentioned that it would be best to leave both alone(not choosing God or Satan). There is a problem with that statement. There is only 2 choices yaakov, not 3. Either one must choose God or Satan. If you do not follow God then Satan will be ones ruler. Even if one does not claim to serve Satan or God, they still would be Against the True God. Therefore, they would be helping the Powers of Darkness. Thinking further upon your statements, it seems that choosing your religion doesn’t generate any advantages. Before choosing your deity, a person isn’t persecuted and thus doesn’t need saving. Before choosing your deity, that deity doesn’t notice you, but neither does the Powers of Darkness. Yaakov, like I have mentioned above, my God promises life and Treasures far greater than what lies in this world we know of. These are advantages I would say, wouldnt you? Your right about someone not being persecuted before they are Saved. The reason they are not persecuted is because Satan is leading their lives. The moment Christ enters a Life is the moment that Satan is entirly at War against us. He tries to hinder us in many ways and persecution is one of those. You also mentioned that neither God or Satan notices someone until they have made their choice. That is not correct. God comes to every person trying to become part of their lives. God loves us so much that he gave his only begotten Son so that we may have that Spirit within us. On the other hand, Satan tries tainting us at the very moment that we can discern between Right and Wrong. Satan is at constant work tempting and contaminating everything that is of God. QGOD BLESS | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Marie, GS - Do you think that if a christian does not necessarily believe these are the end times they are not saved? Nope, I do not feel that it is a Sin not believing these are End Times. Maybe for some, it is not meant for them to know when it occurs. As long as one is Saved they have nothing to worry about because the Rapture will Save us from End Times. However, again I say that God told us to be watchful for signs and wonderings. If one chooses not to keep a watchful eye, then so be it. Daneila, Will anyone here like to have the veri-chip injected, for say...identification, security, medical, buying and selling and all the other things imaginable that it is capable of? Yes or no? why or why not? I personally will strongly disagree with the use of this type of technology. I feel there should be many limits as to how far the Government is allowed to control and invade our privacy. If it comes to choosing the Chip(satan) or God, I will choose God. I pray that all feels the same way. QGOD BLESS | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Junior Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 38 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.8.126.145 |
GodsServant First, I want to sincerely thank you for being so patient with me and answering my questions. It is refreshing you will share your beliefs with me instead of just getting insulted as some others have done. Since this is all new to me, I re-state some of your concepts in ways that I can relate. When you are saved your automatically going to become persecuted. However, to be persecuted does not mean that one would need to be saved. Its the other way around. I don’t understand, what does it mean to be persecuted in this context? Yes, it is true that choosing God will bring the Powers of Darkness against us because Satan will tempt us when we are Saved. Satan is in a constant battle to lead people astray from the True God. You mentioned that it would be best to leave both alone (not choosing God or Satan). There is a problem with that statement. There is only 2 choices yaakov, not 3. Either one must choose God or Satan. If you do not follow God then Satan will be ones ruler. Even if one does not claim to serve Satan or God, they still would be Against the True God. Therefore, they would be helping the Powers of Darkness. Hmmmm………. So, you seem to be saying that by not worshipping your deity, then a person would default to serving your anti-deity, whether they actively choose to or not. GodsServant, would your beliefs be stated more accurately by stating that a person has two choices, either to serve your deity or not to serve your deity? Another question: You say that after a person chooses your deity, then the anti-deity is constantly trying to tempt that person. So, does the anti-deity ignore people that didn’t choose your deity? Your right about someone not being persecuted before they are Saved. The reason they are not persecuted is because Satan is leading their lives. The moment Christ enters a Life is the moment that Satan is entirly at War against us. He tries to hinder us in many ways and persecution is one of those. You also mentioned that neither God or Satan notices someone until they have made their choice. That is not correct. God comes to every person trying to become part of their lives. The interplay between these two is getting interesting. So, your deity “tempts” also. GodsServant, this is getting exciting for me. I pray you reply quickly, is my following analogy correct? A person makes a choice of whether to follow your deity (or be a part of his team). If the person chooses your deity, then the anti-deity tries to tempt that person to his side. If the person rejects your deity, then the person automatically goes to the anti-deity’s team. Your deity then tries to tempt that person to his side. If my analogy works, can a person switch teams multiple times? Or is the first choice, the only choice? | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Junior Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 39 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 12.8.126.145 |
GodsServant This question to you is so different from the previous post, that I am posting it separately. Daneila asked Will anyone here like to have the veri-chip injected, for say...identification, security, medical, buying and selling and all the other things imaginable that it is capable of? Yes or no? why or why not? I personally will strongly disagree with the use of this type of technology. I feel there should be many limits as to how far the Government is allowed to control and invade our privacy. If it comes to choosing the Chip(satan) or God, I will choose God. I pray that all feels the same way. GodsServant, do you use a cell phone? Do you use credit cards? Do you have Lo-jack installed on your car? If you answer yes to any of these, then you are already being tracked in some ways. Are these items also satanic? | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 14 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Yaakov, I don’t understand, what does it mean to be persecuted in this context? To be persecuted in this context actually means that one would be scorned for believing the Truth which is Jesus(GOD). Anything dealing with the truth(God), would be hated by others. In other words, to give the truth to unbelievers would be dissatisfying and would cause them to lash out at someone whom serves God. Hmmmm………. So, you seem to be saying that by not worshipping your deity, then a person would default to serving your anti-deity, whether they actively choose to or not. GodsServant, would your beliefs be stated more accurately by stating that a person has two choices, either to serve your deity or not to serve your deity? In a matter of speaking Yes, BUT remember even if one does not choose to serve God or Satan they will only be helping the Powers of Darkness(Satan). I would say that if one chooses to help the Powers of Darkness, they clearly are on Satans Team. Another question: You say that after a person chooses your deity, then the anti-deity is constantly trying to tempt that person. So, does the anti-deity ignore people that didn’t choose your deity? Satan does not ignore them whom do not choose God. Satan uses each person who does not choose God to carry out his plans of Lies and Deception. The interplay between these two is getting interesting. So, your deity “tempts” also. GodsServant, this is getting exciting for me. I pray you reply quickly, is my following analogy correct? Yaakov, I would not call my God tempting. My God creates a Calling within each individuals heart. Temptation deals with Sin and therefore, cannot be a part of God. Satan tempts but God Calls(talks to us). Do you understand my logic? If my analogy works, can a person switch teams multiple times? Or is the first choice, the only choice? To this question lies a huge gap which only God can answer precisely. However, I have come to the knowledge that some may switch from one side to the other during their lives. Backsliding is a major issue for Christianity and I honestly know for a fact that it is reality. God is so merciful(Compassionate) that he will give us many chances. Depending upon the person, these could vary as far as, how many chances one may get before they are given to a Reprobate Mind. Romans 1:28 And even as they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a reprobate mind, to do those things which are not convenient; After one is given over to a reprobate mind, they are doomed to Hell. When God comes and gives the individual truth and the person still continues to disobey Him, He will leave them. I would call it a hard heart in my opinion. Think of it this way, say that a friend comes to visit you but you do not answer the door. After a while when that same friend comes and you do not answer the door he/she will stop coming. This works the same way with the Spirit of God. VGOD BLESS (Message edited by godsservant on November 16, 2004) | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 15 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Yaakov, GodsServant, do you use a cell phone? Do you use credit cards? Do you have Lo-jack installed on your car? Actually yaakov I do use a cell phone. However, it is a choice which I have made on my own. It was not forced on me and it does not invade my privacy. I have a choice to carry it or leave it at home. As far as the chip, I would not take it because there would be no choice of leaving it at home. Do you understand what im getting at? Once technology exceeds the boundaries of our own personal privacy and contains the means of changing our thoughts/emotions, I would say YES, people have went to far with technological advancements. Especially when this could possibly be used to harm or capture people for unjustified reasons. Suppose our government drastically changes in the Near future into something that everyone Hates/Dislikes. Would then you see the Chip as a Good thing? I just feel that once technology becomes a control, Satan will then reign. This very well could be the Power which Satan will use to speak to every Tongue(language). The chip possibly could be used for communication which you have already pointed out earlier as being a Cell Phone. Could this be a sign of future events which allows the Anti-Christ to communicate directly with everyone at the same time? I would shake my head Yes. If you answer yes to any of these, then you are already being tracked in some ways. Are these items also satanic? Your right yaakov, we are being tracked using certain things. I would not call them Satanic though but a product which will lead some to feel the Chip is ok. By slowly increaseing each advancement to the people, they are letting the people get adjusted to the new planned future. If they automatically threw the Chip in our face the majority would not accept it. However, by using time as a tool, they have figured out a way to let people become adjusted. The question is, Will you become adjusted? Speaking for myself, I will never relinguish my privacy on those grounds. I pray God save us all from that terrible time of Government(Satanic Rule). QGOD BLESS | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Junior Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 42 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.4 |
However, by using time as a tool, they have figured out a way to let people become adjusted. Who is the “they”? The question is, Will you become adjusted? Speaking for myself, I will never relinguish my privacy on those grounds. I pray God save us all from that terrible time of Government(Satanic Rule). In our technological society, we have all already become adjusted. We are adjusting everyday. The concept of Privacy has changed from the past. However, I don’t worry about some divine bogeyman, I worry about people that might abuse the technology. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Junior Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.4 |
GodsServant To be persecuted in this context actually means that one would be scorned for believing the Truth which is Jesus(GOD). Anything dealing with the truth(God), would be hated by others. Just that? Being persecuted just means that people that choose differently would scorn you? I thought it would be more serious. Heh, as a Jew, I am used to persecution. Isn’t the reverse true, that you would scorn those that choose differently from you? So, you seem to be saying that by not worshipping your deity, then a person would default to serving your anti-deity, whether they actively choose to or not. I would say that if one chooses to help the Powers of Darkness, they clearly are on Satans Team. But what if a person doesn’t choose your god and doesn’t choose your anti-god, which team are they on? Satan does not ignore them whom do not choose God. Satan uses each person who does not choose God to carry out his plans of Lies and Deception. OK, so your anti-god “uses” people on his team and “tempts” people that are not on his team. Your god “uses” people on his team and “calls” people that are not on his team. Is that correct? Do you understand my logic? Not yet, but I am working on it. Can a person switch teams multiple times? To this question lies a huge gap which only God can answer precisely. However, I have come to the knowledge that some may switch from one side to the other during their lives. Backsliding is a major issue for Christianity and I honestly know for a fact that it is reality. God is so merciful(Compassionate) that he will give us many chances. Given all the reading that I do on this site, it seems difficult for anyone to sort out who’s on which team. Whether one believes that the crackers are symbols or the actual body, whether one believes the bible is inerrant or not, etc causes the teams to become blurred. To me, your beliefs make it way too easy to switch sides. Depending upon the person, these could vary as far as, how many chances one may get before they are given to a Reprobate Mind. After one is given over to a reprobate mind, they are doomed to Hell. When God comes and gives the individual truth and the person still continues to disobey Him, He will leave them. I would call it a hard heart in my opinion. Wow! This is way different that anything that I have ever heard before. I have had multiple missionaries tell me that deathbed conversions are the norm. I thought that no one is ever doomed to Hell. When I point out that their concept of the afterlife dooms murdered Jews to Hell, the standard response is that those Jews may have had a change of heart and converted on their deathbed. I have never heard a Christian say before that it can ever be too late to change religions or to get into Heaven. We all hear the stories of murderers that pray to Jebus on their deathbed and get absolved of everything. GodsServant, what denomination are you again? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 108 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.161.17.95 |
Yaakov, are you not now telling us what Christians believe? I thought we agreed we were not going to tell each other what our different faiths believe? | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 18 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Yaakov, You asked who I was referring to in my above post speaking of "THEY". Who is the “they”? The "THEY" that I am referring to is the Ones who are responsible for introducing these new Tech Advancements. The "THEY" also refers to the Ones whom have planned for this futuristic arrival of Government. | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 19 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Yaakov, Just that? Being persecuted just means that people that choose differently would scorn you? I thought it would be more serious. Heh, as a Jew, I am used to persecution. Isn’t the reverse true, that you would scorn those that choose differently from you? Actually yaakov I do not scorn anyone because the Love of God is with me. His guidance leads me to wisdom which is, to Love all. No matter what anyone does or says I always am able to respond with the knowledge that they are Lost. Knowing they are Lost helps me to Love them more because I know they dont know any better. Being persecuted is something that every true servant of God experiences. When they occur, God is always there to guide each Word that comes out of my mouth. The tongue is a powerful tool and if misused can cause exceeding grief. First, one must learn how to come across to a person but in order to do that, God needs to be part of their lives. Only he can lead them to say what needs to be said. God knows every heart and through each person he uses them for various plans. Ever heard of you reap what you sow? If one sows Good Seed then one will Reap(recieve) good seed in return. This is exactly how God works in every individuals Life. But what if a person doesn’t choose your god and doesn’t choose your anti-god, which team are they on? You have already asked this question before but Ill try to clarify in simple terms. Simply there is only 2 choices. Either one chooses God or Satan. If one does not believe in the Worship of either, they will still be Satans servant. Satan uses those whom choose neither because they are not seeking truth. The truth is the Light(GOD) not Satan. If one chooses not to follow the True God, they are automatically serving Satan whether they choose or not. Again, there is only 2 choices. Each individual must decide who they will follow. OK, so your anti-god “uses” people on his team and “tempts” people that are not on his team. Your god “uses” people on his team and “calls” people that are not on his team. Is that correct? Correct Yaakov! However, I would like to clear up a few thoughts. The calling I am referring to is the spirit. God uses his spirit to communicate to us. It is by the spirit that each may be Saved. I cannot explain what this feels like but only express that it is a very powerful experience. When God enters ones life they truly become a New Creature following not what satan puts in their path. The spirit enters a persons life when they become convicted of their sins and ask God to forgive them. Once a simple prayer like this is asked and One truly is honest, God will wash away their sins. At that moment, the person is saved. Have you ever felt convicted of any Sin Yaakov? Conviction is the spirit which God uses to communicate, if you remember me saying before. Also remember the Spirit is God. Once again it is an unexplainable experience that one would have to recieve to understand. God works with us if we will only submit to him and follow his commandments. Given all the reading that I do on this site, it seems difficult for anyone to sort out who’s on which team. Whether one believes that the crackers are symbols or the actual body, whether one believes the bible is inerrant or not, etc causes the teams to become blurred. To me, your beliefs make it way too easy to switch sides. Yes, Yaakov your right! Satan has caused this delusion. Satan separates but God puts Together. Satan is at a great Power in this time and that is why it has become harder to focus on True Commandments of God. Satan continues to add/subtract from the Word which is, God(Jesus). Its very heart breaking to see such division even within one denomination. But again, Satan uses this to his advantage in order to decieve Gods children. Although, God will show one whom are living true sound Godly lives. God gives us Wisdom and we must use it to interpret who is Gods elect. Im speaking personally about things which I have experienced and become accustomed to. I have never heard a Christian say before that it can ever be too late to change religions or to get into Heaven. Its not per say to late on their death bed yaakov. I was referring to those whom have been given over to a Reprobate Mind. In other words, even though God continued to show one the truth and they still disobeyed him, after a while God would stop communicating to them. Meaning the spirit will no longer come to their rescue, so that they may be Saved from Sin. For that reason we should not linger but let God take over our lives the first chance we get. We should not continue to brush God away but let him enter into our lives. If one continues to brush God off, He will in time leave and never return. Lets not wait for that to happen, be saved while one can(speaking to everyone). GodsServant, what denomination are you again? PENTECOSTAL VGOD BLESS | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 57 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.4 |
godsservant The "THEY" that I am referring to is the Ones who are responsible for introducing these new Tech Advancements. The "THEY" also refers to the Ones whom have planned for this futuristic arrival of Government. Are the people that introduce new technological advancements different than the ones planning for the futuristic government? | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 58 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.4 |
godsservant Actually yaakov I do not scorn anyone because the Love of God is with me. His guidance leads me to wisdom which is, to Love all. No matter what anyone does or says I always am able to respond with the knowledge that they are Lost. Isn’t it scorning, to tell everybody that you meet, that they are Lost? If not, then what is your definition of “scorning”? You have already asked this question before but Ill try to clarify in simple terms. Simply there is only 2 choices. Either one chooses God or Satan. If one does not believe in the Worship of either, they will still be Satans servant. Satan uses those whom choose neither because they are not seeking truth. The truth is the Light(GOD) not Satan. If one chooses not to follow the True God, they are automatically serving Satan whether they choose or not. Again, there is only 2 choices. Each individual must decide who they will follow. Yeah, I know I asked that question twice. After I restated the question, your answer confused me again. After reading your answer above, I still think the restated choice is better (i.e. One either chooses your god or not. If a person chooses your god, then they are on your god’s team. But, if a person doesn’t choose your god or chooses someone else, then the person is on your anti-god’s team. It is irrelevant if an active choice for the anti-god was made.) Indeed in my opinion, I think the restated question is much more accurate for your beliefs. People that don’t share your belief system are not choosing either the god or anti-god in your belief system, they are just making one choice (i.e. not choosing your belief system). It really doesn’t make sense to state that a person doesn’t believe the god in your belief system, but they DO believe the anti-god in your belief system. Correct Yaakov! However, I would like to clear up a few thoughts. The calling I am referring to is the spirit. God uses his spirit to communicate to us. It is by the spirit that each may be Saved. Woot! I’m figuring out your beliefs. I see that your deity spirit has specific duties and tasks. I cannot explain what this feels like but only express that it is a very powerful experience. When God enters ones life they truly become a New Creature following not what satan puts in their path. Yes, I have had the same experience once I started believing in God and the Tanakh. It is very powerful, yet indescribable. A lightness of being, a feeling of being at peace with the world. …clumsy words, but the best I can say. The spirit enters a persons life when they become convicted of their sins and ask God to forgive them. Once a simple prayer like this is asked and One truly is honest, God will wash away their sins. At that moment, the person is saved. Have you ever felt convicted of any Sin Yaakov? Conviction is the spirit which God uses to communicate, if you remember me saying before. Your definition of the word “conviction” is different than what I know. The definition that I use is “a final judgment of guilty in a criminal case and the punishment that is imposed.” You are saying that conviction means a form of divine communication. So, I don’t understand that particular question. I have felt guilty for missing the mark and making mistakes, if that is what you mean. I did something really bad a few months ago and it was weighing on my conscience. During the Day of Atonement, I felt it lift off my shoulders. I knew at that moment, that God had forgiven me for that mistake. Given all the reading that I do on this site, it seems difficult for anyone to sort out who’s on which team. Whether one believes that the crackers are symbols or the actual body, whether one believes the bible is inerrant or not, etc causes the teams to become blurred. To me, your beliefs make it way too easy to switch sides. Yes, Yaakov your right! Satan has caused this delusion. Satan separates but God puts Together. Satan is at a great Power in this time and that is why it has become harder to focus on True Commandments of God. Satan continues to add/subtract from the Word which is, God(Jesus). Its very heart breaking to see such division even within one denomination. But again, Satan uses this to his advantage in order to decieve Gods children. <sigh>, you prove my point godsservant. One person believes that those holy crackers are symbols for your deity, another person believes that those holy crackers is your deity’s actual body. Each person believes that they are following your god’s will. And yet, someone like you is quick to say that the other person is really following the anti-god. And the other person could say the same thing. A person gets accused of switching sides for having differing beliefs or rituals. I don’t have a clue how you Christians can keep it all straight, it is a wonder to me that you all don’t get paralyzed with fear. Its not per say to late on their death bed yaakov. I was referring to those whom have been given over to a Reprobate Mind. In other words, even though God continued to show one the truth and they still disobeyed him, after a while God would stop communicating to them. Meaning the spirit will no longer come to their rescue, so that they may be Saved from Sin. I don’t understand. If it isn’t too late on a person’s deathbed, then how can anyone ever be labeled as a reprobate? (Be aware that I have never heard the term “Reprobate” before you mentioned it.) | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 21 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Yaakov, Are the people that introduce new technological advancements different than the ones planning for the futuristic government? Nope, there is no difference. | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 22 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Yaakov, Isn’t it scorning, to tell everybody that you meet, that they are Lost? If not, then what is your definition of “scorning”? Yes, it is scorning to tell people they are lost. For me, I would not do that because it would not be showing the Love of God. After reading your answer above, I still think the restated choice is better (i.e. One either chooses your god or not. If a person chooses your god, then they are on your god’s team. But, if a person doesn’t choose your god or chooses someone else, then the person is on your anti-god’s team. It is irrelevant if an active choice for the anti-god was made.) Indeed in my opinion, I think the restated question is much more accurate for your beliefs. People that don’t share your belief system are not choosing either the god or anti-god in your belief system, they are just making one choice (i.e. not choosing your belief system). It really doesn’t make sense to state that a person doesn’t believe the god in your belief system, but they DO believe the anti-god in your belief system. In my own personal opinion, I know there is only 2 Gods that can be served which truly exist. These being are God and Satan. By knowing this, that would automatically tell me that those whom serve neither are choosing Satan, whether they claim him or not. How can anyone serve neither and yet still serve the true God? Its just not possible!.....they follow Satan, that is the answer. I have felt guilty for missing the mark and making mistakes, if that is what you mean. That is exactly what I was referring to as conviction. The feeling of guilt is actually Gods presence within us. And yet, someone like you is quick to say that the other person is really following the anti-god. And the other person could say the same thing. A person gets accused of switching sides for having differing beliefs or rituals. I don’t have a clue how you Christians can keep it all straight, it is a wonder to me that you all don’t get paralyzed with fear. Someone like me yaakov? I have never judged anyone on these boards in that manner. I would never do that because that would not be showing Wisdom or Love for Gods children. Yaakov, the way I keep it straight is by reading the Word of God for understanding. I pray for wisdom and understanding everyday. Yes, we each develop overtime and we are all on a different level of understanding. That is the simple reason for differing beliefs in scripture. Remember as I said before, God takes each individuals ignorance into consideration. Each person will be judged according to their knowledge of Truth. If one is shown truth and continues to disobey, they will surly pay the consequences. Maybe the consequence of being given over to a Reprobate Mind. I don’t understand. If it isn’t too late on a person’s deathbed, then how can anyone ever be labeled as a reprobate? (Be aware that I have never heard the term “Reprobate” before you mentioned it.) They are labeled a reprobate mind when they continue to fall to Sin. In other words, they continue to commit the Same sin over again even though God shows them Knowledge. That would cause the individual to be doomed to Hell because of their knowledge of the truth. They(Sinners) would be doomed simply because they did not follow Gods commandments which he laid directly in front of them. Or to clarify more, God would give Sinners over to a reprobate mind because they continue to disobey something which he has shed Light on(shown to be sin). If one continues doing something which they know is sin, they possibly in time could be given over to this state of Mind. Now to clarify thoughts about the Deathbed. A person can be saved on their deathbed because God has so much compassion(Mercy). So much compassion that he will save those who finally come to Him. Those whom choose to serve Him and follow all his commandments will be saved as long as, they are not given over to a reprobate mind. If the person is given to a reprobate mind, then being saved on their deathbed would not be possible. Do you understand my logic now yaakov? VGOD BLESS | ||
| sharon (sharon) New member Username: sharon Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.75.44 |
GS... over twenty years ago here in Canada they started a program where they fingerprinted all the school children. I did not allow my children to be done. Not just because it is what we do with our crimimals but because of what I believe the future to be. I was the only parent in hundreds that had a problem with my children being fingerprinted. They told everyone it was so if any of our children were kidnapped they would have their prints on the system. Well it is twenty years later and no child has been kidnapped and they are still doing it and parents are still allowing it. Fear, that is their weapon. Now they want to put a chip in your dog or child for the same reason. Just thought you could add that to your list of things that point to the end times. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 66 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
GodsServant Yes, it is scorning to tell people they are lost. For me, I would not do that because it would not be showing the Love of God. Huh?? On an earlier post, you said No matter what anyone does or says I always am able to respond with the knowledge that they are Lost. Knowing they are Lost helps me to Love them more because I know they dont know any better. So before you said that you always tell people that they are lost and yet, now you say that you don’t tell people that they are lost. How can you both tell and not tell people that they are lost? After reading your answer above, I still think the restated choice is better (i.e. One either chooses your god or not. If a person chooses your god, then they are on your god’s team. But, if a person doesn’t choose your god or chooses someone else, then the person is on your anti-god’s team. It is irrelevant if an active choice for the anti-god was made.) Indeed in my opinion, I think the restated question is much more accurate for your beliefs. People that don’t share your belief system are not choosing either the god or anti-god in your belief system, they are just making one choice (i.e. not choosing your belief system). It really doesn’t make sense to state that a person doesn’t believe the god in your belief system, but they DO believe the anti-god in your belief system. In my own personal opinion, I know there is only 2 Gods that can be served which truly exist. These being are God and Satan. By knowing this, that would automatically tell me that those whom serve neither are choosing Satan, whether they claim him or not. How can anyone serve neither and yet still serve the true God? Its just not possible!.....they follow Satan, that is the answer. Let’s see if an example can clarify my position. Assume a person worships ancient Greek and Roman gods. And assume that they worship the entire pantheon of Gods, such as Zeus, Hermes, Hera, etc. Now, assume that you go up to this person and explain about your pantheon made up of God, Spirit, Jebus, and Satan. This person listens and then rejects your pantheon. They will keep their own beliefs. Now, this person did not choose your God and did not choose your anti-God. In fact, they rejected your entire belief system. Now, you can state that they choose Satan, but that is just your own belief within your belief system. According to this person, they didn’t choose your anti-god, they actually rejected your entire belief system. It was never a choice between one god in your belief system or the other. They rejected all of them. So, in this example, it is much more accurate to state that they rejected your god. Or to flip this example around, suppose this person comes to you and explains about the Loving Zeus, but cautions you about the evil god Hades. He says that if you don’t accept Zeus, then you are automatically choosing Hades. Now, you are not choosing one or the other, you are rejecting his entire belief system. Do you understand my point now? That is exactly what I was referring to as conviction. The feeling of guilt is actually Gods presence within us. Well, sounds like we are in agreement on this point. I also believe that feelings of guilt and our conscience is God within us. It is all part of the Divine Spark. I have never judged anyone on these boards in that manner. I would never do that because that would not be showing Wisdom or Love for Gods children. …Yes, we each develop overtime and we are all on a different level of understanding. That is the simple reason for differing beliefs in scripture. Well, I was presenting a hypothetical using my limited Christian knowledge. I gave examples of those holy crackers and bible inerrancy. However, you responded that Satan has caused this delusion. Satan separates but God puts Together. Satan is at a great Power in this time and that is why it has become harder to focus on True Commandments of God. Satan continues to add/subtract from the Word which is, God(Jesus). Its very heart breaking to see such division even within one denomination. But again, Satan uses this to his advantage in order to decieve Gods children. I am confused by your reasoning. On one hand, you say that a person follows Satan if they have different beliefs than you (like believes that the crackers is really your deity’s body) and on the other hand, you say that you are not judging anyone. Isn’t it a judgment, if you accuse someone of being a follower of Satan? If the person is given to a reprobate mind, then being saved on their deathbed would not be possible. Do you understand my logic now yaakov? I don’t understand how it can be practiced. How does any person know if any other person is a reprobate? For example, assume there are a bunch of prisoners that are scheduled for execution today, all of whom were convicted of serial murder. Now, as far as I know, the priests don’t skip a few of them as being reprobate. The priests go in for one last try to get all of these murderers to accept Jebus. None of them are skipped by the priests. So, what is the practical effect of being labeled as a reprobate? Do people stop trying to convert the person? Is the person banned from attending church? | ||
| godsservant (godsservant) New member Username: godsservant Post Number: 25 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Yaakov, So before you said that you always tell people that they are lost and yet, now you say that you don’t tell people that they are lost. How can you both tell and not tell people that they are lost? Please show me where I have said that I judge. Where have I said I tell those they are lost? Now, you can state that they choose Satan, but that is just your own belief within your belief system. According to this person, they didn’t choose your anti-god, they actually rejected your entire belief system. It was never a choice between one god in your belief system or the other. They rejected all of them. So, in this example, it is much more accurate to state that they rejected your god. Or to flip this example around, suppose this person comes to you and explains about the Loving Zeus, but cautions you about the evil god Hades. He says that if you don’t accept Zeus, then you are automatically choosing Hades. Now, you are not choosing one or the other, you are rejecting his entire belief system. Do you understand my point now? Nope, Im sorry if I disappoint you yaakov but I know for a fact my God and Satan are entities which DO exist. They exist whether someone believes OR NOT. The point im making is that people who choose such gods as zeus, or hades, are only helping the Powers Of Darkness. Even though they may reject my belief system, they are still bound to the fact that Only 2 entities exist(God and Satan). Once someone is shown the truth and they continue to reject it, they will be judged accordingly. I am confused by your reasoning. On one hand, you say that a person follows Satan if they have different beliefs than you (like believes that the crackers is really your deity’s body) and on the other hand, you say that you are not judging anyone. Isn’t it a judgment, if you accuse someone of being a follower of Satan? Yes, it is a judgement to accuse someone of that. Again, Where have I judged anyone? In the meantime I have some scripture for you to ponder. Matthew 7:1 Judge not, that ye be not judged. Mt 7:2 For with what judgment ye judge, ye shall be judged: and with what measure ye mete, it shall be measured to you again. Mt 7:3 And why beholdest thou the mote that is in thy brother's eye, but considerest not the beam that is in thine own eye? Mt 7:4 Or how wilt thou say to thy brother, Let me pull out the mote out of thine eye; and, behold, a beam is in thine own eye? Mt 7:5 Thou hypocrite, first cast out the beam out of thine own eye; and then shalt thou see clearly to cast out the mote out of thy brother's eye. Luke 6:35 But love ye your enemies, and do good, and lend, hoping for nothing again; and your reward shall be great, and ye shall be the children of the Highest: for he is kind unto the unthankful and to the evil. Lu 6:36 Be ye therefore merciful, as your Father also is merciful. Lu 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven: How does any person know if any other person is a reprobate? A person will never know this. Only God can see the spirit which lies within each of us. Only God is able to label a person a reprobate mind. So, what is the practical effect of being labeled as a reprobate? Do people stop trying to convert the person? Is the person banned from attending church? A person cannot label someone a reprobate because we are not able to see the spirit within. Only God can distinguish between a sinner and a reprobate mind. It is not for us to judge because that is Gods duty. So, being banned from church is not a option because we cannot see the spirit within. VGOD BLESS | ||
| pilgrim (pilgrim) Junior Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 33 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.92.67.74 |
Read Mattew 24 the whole chapter and then read verses 21 and verses 29 to 31. It looks like we are going to go through the tribulation before Jesus Christ returns i.e. before the rapture of his church. 1 Corinthians 15:52 says that we shall be changed at the last trumpet, it looks like the last trumpet is the seventh trumpet in the book of revelation. 2 Thesalonians 2:3-4 says that Jesus will not come back untill the antichrist is revealed. I believe that we are going to go through the tribulation before the Jesus Christ returns so we should be prepare. Read also revelation 13:16-18 Look at the following websites to see pictures of Microchips implans/ RFID's, Veri chips and Veri pay. www.soldierofthelord.4t.com/photo.htm www.soldierofthelord.4t.com/photo2.html Signs before the end and the second coming of Jesus Christ Please read the following verses from your own bible because I have not written the bible verses but I have written my own little comentary about the verses Rev. 16:15 Jesus said, behold, I came as a theif.(Please note that this verse was written in revelation after the antichrist is revealed Rev. 13:16-18 and Rev. 14:8-12 the saints were going through the tribulation) 1 Thes. 4:16-18 We will meet the Lord in the air (I think that Jesus will come this way because they are going to be many false Christs in the earth and God wanted to be sure that we are not tricked into following a false christ.) Read also Acts 1:11. 2 Thes. 2:3-4 A falling away (apostacy) will come first and the anticrist will be revealed before Jesus comes back. The son of perdition (antichrist) will sit in the temple in jerusalen and proclaim himself to be God. Read also Mark 13:14. Mattew 24:5; Mark 13:5-6 and Luke 21:8 For many shall come on Jesus's name saying, I am Chirst; and shall deceive many.(One example of this is the manifest sons of God latter rain heresy). Read also Mattew 24:23-27; Mark 13:21-23 Some of the False Christs The following websites explain the manifest son's of God (Manchild) latter rain heresy and the conection to the heresy of the Joel's army www.thechristianexpositor.org/page44.html www.deceptioninthechurch.com/fprophets.html Look at the false profesy about the birth of the Manchild (the Manchild is a false Christ) Mathew 24:21-22 For then shall be a great tribulation, such as was not since the beginning of the world to this time.no.nor ever shall be. the bilble also said in verse 22 that if the days of the tribulation were not shortened no flesh would be saved and that for the sake of the elect those days will be shortened. Read also Mark 13:19-20 and Luke 21:12-19. Read the following verses that shows that we are going to be well into the tribulation before the second coming of Christ Mattew 24:29-31 and 36 ( No one knows the day and the hour of Jesus return but we know that is going to be apostacy, great tribulation and the son of perdition will be revealed before it happens.) Read also Mark 13:24-27 and Luke 21:27. I feel worry and sad when I think that many of the people who believe in the unbiblical doctrine of the pretribulation rapture might feel desperate and confuse when the tribulation starts and they might end up been deceived into accepting the false Christs, the anticrist and even the mark of the beast. We need to open our bibles and test with the scriptures everything that is taught to us. | ||
| osirus (osirus) Intermediate Member Username: osirus Post Number: 228 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 137.3.122.49 |
It will be a cold day in hell before I let them lowjack me with a tracking device microchip. | ||
| fatherofaking (fatherofaking) Intermediate Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 117 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 64.223.172.102 |
what if it isn't that simple. what if the mark cannot be identified through physical means. if it was that obvious do you think that anyone would take the mark? even those that are not christians would see what is behind such a thing. how many are going to willingly worship a man. non christians will be the first to see it. maybe it is something else? Revelation 13:18 says the following: "This calls for wisdom. If anyone has insight, let him calculate the number of the beast, for it is a man's number. His number is 666." This beast, regarded by some as the Anti-Christ described by John, is thus related to the number 666, one of the greatest mysteries of the Bible. Curiously enough, if you take the sine of 666º, you get -0.80901699, which is one-half of negative phi, or perhaps what one might call the "anti-phi." http://goldennumber.net/bible.htm the number is the number of man. | ||
| ihavesinned (ihavesinned) Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 319 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.112.180.149 |
777 the neighbor of the beast | ||
| ihavesinned (ihavesinned) Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 320 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.112.180.149 |
sorry, 667 blew the joke | ||
| fear_not (fear_not) New member Username: fear_not Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.32.124.220 |
If I understand The Bible correctly, Christians won't have to choose between receiving the mark of being killed until AFTER The Rapture occurs. I will do some research to make sure that's right. It's what I was always taught in Sunday School, and I've read The Bible all the way through a few times, but can't remember for sure. | ||
| zxcvbnm (zxcvbnm) New member Username: zxcvbnm Post Number: 14 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 131.191.75.130 |
Research LOL.. from what bible do you do this research from? | ||
| overseas (overseas) Intermediate Member Username: overseas Post Number: 453 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 164.143.244.34 |
I don't think our focus should be on the technical aspects of the mark. God will not punish somebody for simply using a chip or gadget, but for joining a wicked totalitarian system. The meaning of the mark is that those who take it openly reject God and agree to persecute the believers in God. | ||
| fear_not (fear_not) New member Username: fear_not Post Number: 2 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.32.124.220 |
Do you believe we are near the end of time as we know it? | ||
| bear (bear) Intermediate Member Username: bear Post Number: 327 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.247.112.45 |
Whatever the mark will be, this much is true, it will be common place in our society. Quit debating a issue that NO ONE reallys knows. | ||
| zxcvbnm (zxcvbnm) Junior Member Username: zxcvbnm Post Number: 31 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 131.191.75.130 |
YOU GOD FOOLS.. AT FIRST IT WAS THE TAT'S WAS THE MARK.. NOW YOUR ALL MOVE OVER TO THE COMPUTER CHIP.. | ||
| ezekiel_37 (ezekiel_37) Intermediate Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 145 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.223.192 |
It is my understanding that the mark will be a free will choice, not something that can be forced upon someone. Receiving the mark of the beast is to use the new currency, and participate in the new World Gov'nmt. This political beast will be generaled by the "fallen angels" and soon after the devil(playing the role as anti-christ) will enter the scene and take over the world by means of lies and false peace. The mark is to get fooled by him and think he's Jesus, and thus participate in his system. Almost all will have the mark of the beast but the elect will not. They will have the seal of the Living God and overcome. These are the saints that are alive, here, upon His arrival. No chip, no tattoo, nothing that can be forced. Free will choice to follow satan or God, through His Word and the actions of the elect, His 2 witnesses and Christ Himself upon His arrival. Learn the parable of the Fig Tree. Fig tree generation 1948+ The fig tree generation is getting old now and this will be the last generation before the return of Christ. 666-only mentioned in Rev. Answer in Rev as well 6th seal 6th trump 6th vial all happen at the same time, marking the Devil as the anti-christ and not the true real Jesus Christ. c | ||
| abiyah (abiyah) Member Username: abiyah Post Number: 54 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.59.129.216 |
Good Morning ALL ! Very intersting topic, and Ezekiel has well spoken, so I'm thinking he must be reading his Bible WITH understanding. For we are NOT talking about a "chip", nor a tattoo, when referring to the " Mark of the Beast"..... For it is written Revelation 13:16 " AND HE [ he= being satan as he play the role of the instead of christ, in which he SHALL deceive most the world, they will wander after him, worshipping him thinking he is Jesus Christ returned at the Second Advent, ohhhh how happy and excited so many will be..... promising to Rapture them away... this is why God is AGAINST those that teach His Children souls to fly Ezekiel 13:20, for it is a false teaching and covers God's Truth] CAUSETH ALL, BOTH SMALL AND GREAT, RICH AND POOR, FREE AND BOND TO RECEIVE A MARK " IN " THEIR RIGHT HAND OR " IN ' THEIR FORHEADS. [ see this word "IN".. what's "IN" your forehead ? .... well your brain of course, your mind, they are both idioms in that these people that worship the instead of christ which is simply satan, the devil, that ole serpent Rev. 12:9 playing/pretending to be Jesus Christ, that they believe in their minds that the false messiah/christ is truly Jesus Christ, "IN" their right hand..... another idiom being that the right hand is Biblically symbolic of power.. in that they will do the work, help him, do whatever they are asked to do of the false christ/the instead of christ because they actually think & really do believe that this fake is Jesus ] **** Continued.....please | ||
| abiyah (abiyah) Member Username: abiyah Post Number: 56 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.59.129.216 |
**** Continued please.... LOOK.. I mean look for yourself in The Book of Daniel for it is prophesied that the instead of christ.../the anti-christ.... which is just satan playing Jesus and DECIEVING most the world Rev. 13:13-14, that he SHALL come in peacefully and prosperously. See he is going to "play" or "pretend" that he is sweet Jesus, but when The True Jesus Christ returns He will not come this time as a babe dressed in swaddling clothing.. but rather with The Cup of the wrath of God ! Seee ? When Christ returns those that worshipped the fake will be "trying" to hide from Him and wanting the mountains & rocks to fall on them, because they are so ashamed they worshipped satan THINKING "IN" THEIR MINDS that he was Jesus. Hey ! They will want to die ! Daniel 8:24-25 " AND HIS POWER SHALL BE MIGHTY, BUT " NOT " BY HIS OWN POWER [ A false God head, he is a fake.. he is pretending to be Jesus... God wants to know who has taken the time to read His Word for themselves, He wants to know IF you will choose to love Him or choose satan as he will decieve most of the world. but remeber this... that to be absent from the flesh is to be present with The Lord II Cor.5:8 ] AND HE SHALL DESTROY WONDERFULLY,AND SHALL PROSPER [ thg false christ will have a whole lotta money, for you can not buy or sell without first worshipping him], AND PRATISE, AND SHALL DESTROY THE MIGHTY AND THE HOLY PEOPLE. AND THROUGH HIS POLICY ALSO HE SHALL CAUSE CRAFT TO PROSPER IN HIS HAND [ hey listen.... the false messiah/the instead of christ can pay off all your bills, buy one a car of they want.. or a house.. pay off your mortgage....he'll do whatever but ONLY if you will bow down a worship him, at which point all those will be satan woshippers but they will not realize what they have done UNTIL the True Christ returns at the Seventh Trump, in which we shall all be changed into spiritual bodies I Cor.15:52]; AND HE SHALL MAGNIFY HIMSELF IN HIS HEART, AND BY " PEACE " SHALL DESTROY MANY; HE SHALL ALSO STAND AGAINST THE PRINCE OF PRINCES [ That Prince of princes is Jesus Christ at The Seventh Trump ] BUT HE SHALL BE BROKEN WITHOUT HAND [ Christ is going to do that !!!!! You can count it, it is written.. and it SHALL come to pass ] That "chip" if it ever happens.. can't make you do something that you would not otherwise do. Simple as that... Abiyah | ||
| ezekiel_37 (ezekiel_37) Intermediate Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 159 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.223.192 |
it all boils down to a free will choice not a forced mark | ||
| abiyah (abiyah) Member Username: abiyah Post Number: 74 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.59.129.216 |
Hello There Again Manu ! And so you SHALL also answer for the critism that you put upon others. We ALL shall stand before The LORD, our God in Whom sits in The Judgement Seat, for He is and shall Judge ALL...and He SHALL Judge fairly, and righteously. I look forward to that day..... do you ? Abiyah | ||
| abiyah (abiyah) Member Username: abiyah Post Number: 76 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.59.129.216 |
Okay Manu.... Then let us TALK Scripture ? WOMEN OF THE BIBLE ! First.. let me ask you this... " Abiyah " IS it in masculine or femininee form ? You KNOW NOT, whether I'm a man or woman of God. Who and what did the " Abiyah(s) " of The Bible do ? What is The couse of Abia ? AGAIN, let's talk Women of The Bible.... It is WRITTEN... these were teachers of The Word of God. *** Pheobe... you will read about her in Romans chapter 16... indeed Paul gives her credentials.. and instructs them to ASSIST her in WHATSOEVER she have need of, because she was an " succourer".. which means she stands in rank of the Church in Cenchre', she was a succourer of many and ALSO of Paul himself.... Paul declares it ! She delivered that letter from Paul to the Romans. *HULDAH she can be found in The Book of Chronicles 34:20-24.. she was a teacher of God's Word and was the only one that could interpret The Word of God for the men.. who could NOT understand that which was written in The Scriptures in which they had found. *DEBORAH - Ohhh yes indeed you will find this women of God in The Book of Judges.... Judges= meaning to SET right and THEN rule ! She was a judge a leader of The nation of Israel. She was the head judge during this time. She also lead Israel into battle while none of the men would lead Israel into the battle AGAINST the cannanites, and God gave her the victory.... remember how the lead man of the army would NOT GO up to battle the Caananites UNLESS Deborah went with them. *MIRIAM...Yes ! In Exodus 15:20... IT IS WRITTEN that she was a "prophetess", yes the sister of Aaron & Moses. Oh.. and what about the women using their God given gifts/talents to bulid the very Tabernacle of The LORD... you will read of these women in Exodus 35:25-26. And what about Philip's *daughters, Philip you know he assisted the apostles of God... you remember how that he had FOUR DAUGHTERS who did prophecy... meaning they were teachers of God's Word with divine inspiration.... IT IS WRITTEN ... Acts 21:9-10. JOEL.... It is written in that Book that The LORD will pour out His Spirit.. that being The Holy Spirit, of course... And that BOTH His son's AND DAUGHTERS "SHALL" prophecy !!!!! Joel 2:28. And that's that ! | ||
| ezekiel_37 (ezekiel_37) Intermediate Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 170 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.223.192 |
abiyah u rock keep up the good work. This guys not worth it | ||
| abiyah (abiyah) Member Username: abiyah Post Number: 80 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.59.129.216 |
Good Morning Ezekiel ! Thank you so much for such a kind compliment.... I laughed and it made me smile.... And well thanks for that,, and I know that you know I had help from the Most Special One in my heart ! Thanks again though Ezekiel ! You go and have an "awesomely" blessed weekend.... any gigs ? Hope so.... very "kool".... LOL ! Abiyah | ||
| terluvire (terluvire) New member Username: terluvire Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 24.229.6.62 |
HI Abiyah, Just wanted you to know that I made it here. Awesome posts! (Message edited by terluvire on February 14, 2006) | ||
| ezekiel_37 (ezekiel_37) Intermediate Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 431 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.223.192 |
terluvire Hi there and welcome th factnet If you are a friend of Abiyah's then I consider you a friend of mine. There are some challenges here although it is an opportunity to spread the truth. talk to you soon. Peace to you in Jesus Christ's name | ||
| abiyah (abiyah) Intermediate Member Username: abiyah Post Number: 185 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.59.129.216 |
Peace unto you my friend ! And God bless your heart. When I saw you here immediately I thought that which our Lord had said. Luke 10:2 " Therefore said He unto them, The harvest truly is great, BUT THE LABOURERS ARE FEW; Pray ye therefore The Lord of the harvest, that He would send forth labourers into His harvest. " (Message edited by Abiyah on February 14, 2006) | ||
| terluvire (terluvire) New member Username: terluvire Post Number: 2 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 24.229.6.62 |
Thanks Ezekiel for the warm Welcome! Hi Abiyah, I'm still learning these boards. I'm totally lost looking for these threads. LOL Thank goodness for email notices! LOL Very good verse you posted! Though the labourers are few, we have the victory through our Father! | ||
| thekingsent1_again (thekingsent1_again) Intermediate Member Username: thekingsent1_again Post Number: 130 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.158.99.28 |
How many professing "Christians" would allow a chip to be implanted in them? Lets say those that want to place this chip in everyone will be saying, it is for your safety, your childrens saftey, to stop terrorists, to keep everyone safe, and so on. Then if you refuse, you cannot work because to be employed you would have to have a chip, as a timeclock. If this ever comes to fruition, I sincerly hope that you all would have enough sense to not allow anyone to chip you. The key is to understand who the Earth Beast is, Mr. 666, and the like. In case you did not know, the man of lawlessness is not one man. This is obviously the same man of Revelations Earth Beast, 666. Latienos=Latin Kingdom=666. Vicarious Filli Dei=The Pope=666. So then what can be the mark of the pope and his beast? The 7 kingdoms(heads) of Satans Earthly work are:1)Egyptian 2)Assrayian 3)Babalonian 4) Medo-Persian 5)Grecian 6)Roman 7) Holy Roman. They all have 1 thing in common...they went after the bloodline Jews. And they all had a pagan based religious system, yes, the Holy Roman Empire too; think about that 1. (cont....) | ||
| thekingsent1_again (thekingsent1_again) Intermediate Member Username: thekingsent1_again Post Number: 131 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 4.158.99.28 |
Then we are told that the Earth Beast is actually an 8th head of Satans Earthly work but is in fact one of the 7. The most likely concenses has been that the Earth Beast is either the U.S. or a reborn Holy Roman Empire. The 2 witnessess are killed by the beast that comes from the abyss(back from death), which is an obvious refrence to the Earth Beast. To me it seems that this Beast Empire must have already been to return. Another clue is that the image of the prior beasts actually speaks and causes those whom refuse to worship it be killed. To me, it makes no sense that it is amazing that a person, or a nation could speak. It is not amazing. What would be amazing if a statue came to life, or a likeness thereof. The most likely scenario is that Mother Mary will appear to be worshipped, as Satan in disguise, or that the statue of liberty comes alive. Base these as the most probable outcomes of the Earth Beast, as it seems likely that it is one or the other. I think that the mark is a spiritual one, as your right hand is works, and the forehead is mind. A physical mark could also go hand in hand. And if any of you are knuckleheaded enough to take a chip: shame on you! Follow Jesus and not the leaven of the Pharisees and Saducees. Stay in his grace and righteousness and do not make your own. If you do this you will not be tricked. | ||
| ezekiel_37 (ezekiel_37) Intermediate Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 439 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.223.192 |
the whole reason for this flesh existance is to choose either God or Satan. This MUST be a free will choice. If someone tricks you into getting a chip implanted on the falsity of safety, that is not going to be a free will choice. The mark cannot be a chip It must be free will choice. The works of satan-the hand the following of his system-the mind | ||
| thekingsent1_again (thekingsent1_again) Intermediate Member Username: thekingsent1_again Post Number: 132 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 63.40.178.193 |
I agree with you that we have a choice to make in whom to serve. But if a chip system comes to fruition and you accept to take its implantation; you took it! You did not have to do anything, you have the right to refuse anything. Remember during the Holy Roman Empires 1260 year reign? Those who spoke out against the Roman Catholic Church and those who refused to join were killed. They were told to join or else. They decided on the else. The same thing applies if a chip system comes to fruition, you will join or else. The question is: Will you hold firm even unto death, as the true saints did before you? | ||
| thekingsent1_again (thekingsent1_again) Intermediate Member Username: thekingsent1_again Post Number: 133 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 63.40.178.193 |
I also understand that the scripture is pointing to a spiritual acceptance of the mark. The only remaining question is if a physical one can or will go hand in hand? I think we should focus on what caused those who freely joined the R.C.C. and its empire to be disqualified. We know that the True Saints refused to join its apostate heriesies. But what spiritual mark might those who joined freely have recieved? The Bible makes it clear that the man of lawlessness=all popes. The Bible also makes it obvious that his seat of power is given to him by Satans authority. Then Revelations explains that we must come out of her my people. It seems that their is still given the ability of repentance to those who belong to the R.C.C. and the harlots children thereafter her. Maybe the mark is the saturday verses sunday worship and adherence? Maybe it is obeying the popes laws and not God's? I think that this is key to understand what mark is being shown to us. Because if you notice that all the "churches", which sprung forth after the mother of harlots, adhere to her laws and holy days and not God's. This may be the mark? What do you suppose? | ||
| abiyah (abiyah) Intermediate Member Username: abiyah Post Number: 192 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.59.129.216 |
Revelation 17:10 -11 " And there are SEVEN kings.... FIVE HAVE FALLEN, and one IS, and THE OTHER is NOT YET COME, and when he cometh, he must continue a short space [ Revelation 17:8 ]; And the beast that WAS, AND IS NOT, EVEN he IS THE EIGTH, and is of the seven, AND GOETH INTO PERDITION [ II Thess. 2:3 ] SEVEN kings or kingdoms which controlled and/or do control, and will control Jerusalem. One = Babylon(Nebuchadezzur) Head of Gold ~ Brass ~ Iron ~ Clay ~ 10toes of Iron & Clay Two = Medes-Persian Three = Greece Four = Rome FIVE = Mohammedans Note: 1636AD-1948 SIX = The Good & Bad Fig Tree(Jer. 24) ~ The Generation of The Fig Tree 1948 Matthew 24:32 Seven = Anti-Christ, Son of Perdition, Spurious messiah, False christ, The Abmonination of Desolation spoken of by Daniel The prophet, Satan, The devil, The Dragon, The Beast, these are all the same... just different names is all... Satan will pretend or play like he is Jesus Christ returned FIVE MONTHS to reign on earth to deceived the world [Revelation 12:9]; And those that have not studied God's Word for themselves, but rather listened to the doctrines of man and believed they were gonna be raptured away first, will be deceived into thinking that he is actually Jesus come to rapture them away.. This is why The LORD is AGAINST, I repeat AGAINST those that teach His children to fly to save their souls [ Ezekiel 13:20] Mark 13:20 & Rev. 9:5 & Rev. 9:10. **** Following The Lords Day, The Millinium [ II Peter 3:8 = A 1,000 year period ] EIGHT = Then the anti-christ, the instead of christ, the false christ, again these are all the same entity....just different names is all, it's satan..... shall be released AGAIN for a short time [ Revelation 20:7], those that follow him this time around will follow him straight to the lake of fire. Because this time they should know better. Again, Revelation 17:11 and then Revelation 20:10. Abiyah | ||
| abiyah (abiyah) Intermediate Member Username: abiyah Post Number: 193 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.59.129.216 |
You WROTE: ------------------------------------------------- " This may be the mark? What do you suppose? " QUOTE ------------------------------------------------- REVELATION 13:16 " And he [ the spurois messiah, when he comes to the earth pretending he is Jesus Christ returned see Revelation 12:7-12 ] causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond to RECEIVE A MARK " IN " their right hand [ The right hand is symbolic of power, these do his work WHY ? Well because they think he is Jesus Christ returned Revelation 13:11-14] or "IN" their forehead. [ It says IN.... what's IN your forehead..... ? Your brain... your mind, the believe the spurious messiah is Jesus ]. This is the spiritual mark..... they think that that Jesus Christ has returned, yet it is The Son of Perdition claiming to be Jesus.... Now see II Thessalonians 2:3-4 & 9 & Ezekiel 28; & Daniel chapter 11 & 12; for he must come FIRST, BEFORE The True Christ Returns.... see Mark chapter 13 & Matthew chapter 24, & Luke chapter 21. Who is the harot ? All thsoe that claim to be the bride of Christ, but they whore after the false christ, spiritually speaking, because they have NOT read God's Word for themselves and did not know , nor did they understand that the false christ, the instead of christ comes BEFORE the True Christ Returns; they were suppose to remain "virgins" spiritually speaking of course. Yet, when Christ returns he'll find them wandering after the false messiah, as they really thought he was Jesus Christ come to rapture them away. Revelation 18:4.... Mystery Babylon.... Babylon means confusion.. come out of CONFUSION ! Rev. 17:5 Abiyah | ||
| terluvire (terluvire) New member Username: terluvire Post Number: 19 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 24.229.6.62 |
Good post Abiyah, very clear and easy to understand. | ||
| ezekiel_37 (ezekiel_37) Intermediate Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 446 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.223.192 |
Abiyah pretty much sums up how I feel about the mark I don't deny that an ID chip does indeed SEEM like it could be the PRECEIVED mark but I don't think the biblical example points to a physical mark I think the Mark of the Beast started in the Garden when God places a mark on Cain after he killed his brother Abel. I don't think that mark was physical but spiritual. There are other examples as well. The choice seems clear to me to be between the false Chrsit and the true Messiah. That being the case, I doubt God would base His judgement upon anything that is forced and only that which is chosen, not the choice of getting the chip itself but the actual choosing of Satan or/and his system over the prophecied return of the true Messiah. There are 2 marks given. 1 the mark of the beast 2 the mark of God (seal of God) Everyone receives one of these marks in the trib. We can, with study, find where in scripture these marks are refered to Then base an opinion on all of the events and not just one, for there are no contradictions in the Word of God. And we all want the truth don't we? Peace c | ||
| abiyah (abiyah) Intermediate Member Username: abiyah Post Number: 194 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.59.129.216 |
Hi Terluvire & Ezekiel ! Gee.... It's like 4:45PM, and well I am exhausted. LOL ! My goodness, I'm growing quit weary of [Liar]Infoman & small "g" godchild..... are these folks truly Christians... followers of Christ, The Son of God ? I can not help but wonder, they hardly IF ever quote God's Word and they both have posted lies about us... and well ? What is one to make of that ?? My Lord told me that I "SHALL" KNOW THEM by their fruits. Oh well... just thinking out loud I guess...... LOL ! I'd rather not stoop to their level and speak ill of them... but rather pray for them.... you both know what I mean. Much Love In Christ to you both ! Abiyah | ||
| ezekiel_37 (ezekiel_37) Intermediate Member Username: ezekiel_37 Post Number: 455 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 69.192.223.192 |
Thank you Personally I am beginning to wonder myself if they do this in ignorance or on purpose..I pray that it is ingnorance. For that is forgivable. I fail to see how they will agree with the Word as we see it their transliteration or for that matter many of their translations differ too much from ours. They choose other resourse material or none at all to argue with us. I do not know if anything can grow there. Maybe post trib, then all will at least understand, whether they follow or not...we will wait and see. Come Lord Come Peace In Jesus Name c | ||
| terluvire (terluvire) New member Username: terluvire Post Number: 25 Registered: 2-2006 Posted From: 24.229.6.62 |
HI Abiyah and Ezekiel! LOL It's exhausting to keep rehashing the same thing over and over again. But yes, all we can do is plant the seeds, only God can make them grow. If they don't see it now, I pray that their eyes will be open during the time of the antichrist. Many will come out of Babylon during that time. If they don't come out of Babylon during that time, they will certainly realize it when the True Christ returns! | ||
| abiyah (abiyah) Intermediate Member Username: abiyah Post Number: 210 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.59.129.216 |
Yes...... and Amen. | ||
| thekingsent1_again (thekingsent1_again) Intermediate Member Username: thekingsent1_again Post Number: 178 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.24.44.141 |
abiyah................ I do not know how you came to your conclusions but I am telling you that someone has given you improper information. At the time that John was writting this scripture down, there was already 5 kingdoms that fell. On your conclusion there is only 4. Almost any Biblical historian can show you that the last 3 to fall are shown in Daniel 7. Greece, Medo-Persia, Babylon. There were 2 others that fell before them, obviously assyria and Egypt. The one that is at his writting this scripture is Rome. That is 6 out of 8. Number 7 is the Holy Roman Empire. History proves this to be a fact, as its reign lasted exactly 1260 years...a time, times, and a half a time, and 1260 days of protection shown in Rev 12:6, which is how long the sea beast held its power, Rev 13:5. There will not be an actuall man claiming to be Jesus leading people astray. This anti-christ has been in power for over 1260 years and will untill Jesus arrives and removes him. I do not know if you understand that the one man fake Jesus was contrived from the Jesuit branch of the R.C.C. to combat what the Protestants were teaching about Rome. I am quite positive that the image of the R.C.C. that comes alive is no other than Satan disguised as mother mary. If you study what the R.C.C. has taught about her and some of what her apperitionings have been said by her; you can see through the lie. I beg you to give it a little better study because I know that you are confused. | ||
| thekingsent1_again (thekingsent1_again) Intermediate Member Username: thekingsent1_again Post Number: 179 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.24.44.141 |
Listen................. Satan has been working endlessly on tripping up believers. He already has the rest lost, as he has not needed to keep working them over. Satan cannot trick most Christians by appearing and claiming to be Jesus because most believers already know that at his return; all at the exact same moment shall see him. You have fallen for our hollywood tales, which they have taken from the Jesuits of the R.C.C. The man of lawlessness is the Pope. He takes his seat showing himself as God...not claiming to be God...but as God.... He claims to be warming God's seat until he returns. He claims to be a ruler. He claims infallibility. He changed the 10 Commandments. Why are you all not understanding this? The great apostasy started going full force when Constantine started the R.C.C. Apostay= counterfeit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! counterfeit= looks real but when you match it up against the real thing, it becomes obvious that it is counterfeit. The Pope and his church are anti-Christs because they refused the Christ and added Mary and sacraments in his stead. Don't you understand that Satan believes in Jesus too? PLEASE>>>>>>>>>>>>I beg you.....check out this site...www.biblicalhistorytimeline.com This site simply presents historical facts on many religions and the history involved with them. It should allow you to see the truth. I hope, for your own good. | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 268 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
To Everyone, Here is an interesting article about microchips implants called When Cash Is Only Skin Deep. http://www.wired.com/news/technology/0,1282,61357,00.html Look a the following websites about bible prophesies http://www.tldm.org/News4/MarkoftheBeast.htm http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=REV%2013&version=31; | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 271 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.134 |
Read the following articles about microchips implants "He causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads: And that no man might buy or sell, save he that had the mark, or the name of the beast, or the number of his name. Here is wisdom. Let him that hath understanding count the number of the beast: for it is the number of a man; and his number is six hundred threescore and six." -- Revelation 13: 16-18 http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=18767 http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=14913 http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=17834 http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=15185 Microchips implants to people in a club in Barcelona to make payments http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=38038 Look also at this article in the following website LIFE WITH BIG BROTHER Employees get microchip implants Company requires controversial device for certain workers http://www.wnd.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=48760 | ||
| pilgrim Intermediate Member Username: pilgrim Post Number: 486 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 195.93.21.129 |
Here is another interesting video and article, Title: Rockefeller Admitted Elite Goal Of Microchipped Population http://www.northernresistance.info/video.html (Look at the second video called Rockefeller Admitted Elite Goal Of Microchipped Population ) http://www.prisonplanet.com/articles/january2007/290107rockefellergoal.htm You can also look at this website, http://users.cybertime.net/~ajgood/chipindex.html | ||
| skooter942000 New member Username: skooter942000 Post Number: 6 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 66.81.220.41 |
1Cr 13:11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things. | ||
| bear New member Username: bear Post Number: 1 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 69.212.200.217 |
A chip is not the mark. I must lol at those who hold to this position. | ||
| arron New member Username: arron Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.119.34.187 |
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