| Author | Message | ||
     Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
DO ANYONE HAVE ANY INPUT ON JESSIE DUPLANTIS? HEARD ABOUT A FILM OF HIS ABOUT HOW GOD TOOK HIM IN A "SKI LIFT" TO HEAVEN! | ||
| Gods kids (66.99.115.29) |
Duplantis is awesome!We've known him for 7 years. He is anointed and blessed!He's SOOOO funny.HE entertains as well as preaches the uncompromised word of God.He is a good steward of money,so he has a lot and gives alot away.We love him. | ||
| qw121 (64.241.230.3) |
I know he is of theword of faith message, blab and grab, money, money and more money just like the rest of them | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
God's kids, WHAT IS THIS WE STUFF!!!!!!????? | ||
| new visitor (67.175.53.122) |
As I posted previously, I think they are legit, born-again,on fire for Jesus people defending people they know. So what? We have our opinions. They have theirs. p.s. Duplantis is humorous,entertaining, and anointed. | ||
| QWERTY (64.241.230.3) |
DONT NEED TO BE TAUGHT PROSPERITY!!!!!!!!! THAT IS OLD AND READY FOR THE GARBAGE!!!!! DID JESUS TEACH PROSPERITY????? TIME IS GETTING SHORT TIME TO TEACH HOW TO SAVE THE LOST GET WITH IT!!!!!!!!!!!! THAT IS A VERY SELF SERVING MESSAGE FOR BOTH LISTENER AND PREACHER | ||
| Anonymous (64.255.96.72) |
I did hear him speak about still being married in heaven. Contradicts scripture - but hey - he's funny and entertaining so he must be right. | ||
| Gods kids (66.99.115.29) |
This is too funny.We just got our computer jammed and thrown off here while posting a defense of Duplantis.We all need prosperity or how can we give(millions?)to others.It's not just about "enough for ourselves".We need to be able to bless people abundantly.We do get people saved.That is our main jobs.Duplantis gets people saved too.Thousands of them.With his preaching,teaching,books,and tapes.He is ok. | ||
| QWERTY (64.241.230.3) |
DID JESUS TEACH PROSPARITY ANSWER ME HE DROVE THE MONEY CHANGER OUT REMEMBER? | ||
| Anonymous (68.72.166.189) |
Duplantis is a funny guy, but that's where it stops. His theology and doctrine are way off base, as he is part of the Word Faith group of crooks. Duplantis, Jerry Savelle, Copeland, Charles Capps, Mike Murdock, Oral & Richard Roberts, RW Schaumback, Greg Dickow, Robb Thompson, Paula White, Rod Parsley, John Hagee, Paul Crouch, Benny Hinn, Jentzen Franklin (or whatever his name is) Casey Treat, Joel Osteen, Marilyn Hickey, Joyce Meyer, Creflo Dollar$, Morris Cerullo, and the list goes on. All these "preachers" are simply in it for the money. Period. You and your family would be way better off if you stayed as far away from these preachers as possible. Hey, did you know that Paul Crouch, the owner of TBN was gay? Yeah, a former gay employee is suing TBN because Paul forced this man into a sexual relationship. Nice testimony isn't it? | ||
| qwerty (64.241.230.3) |
AMEN BUT, THESE PEOPLE DONT CARE ABOUT THAT THEY TOO ARE JUST WANTING TO HEAR WHAT THEY WANT TO HEAR. THEY DONT CARE ABOUT THE TRUTH A CHILD COULD UNDERSTAND, AFTER READING THE BIBLE THESE PROSPARITY PEOPLE ARE WRONG YET THEY STILL STAY AND DEFEND THEM | ||
| Anonymous (68.253.216.48) |
Duplantis is funny. Some of the things that he teaches are way out there. I really don't know how he handles money. Robb Thompson takes every penny he can for himself. | ||
| qwerty (64.241.230.3) |
WHERE HAVE YOU BEEN? ROBB HAS HAD JESSIE TO HIS CHURCH MANY TIMES | ||
| Anonymous (65.13.189.216) |
To qwerty You are so right. Jesus did not teach prosperity. HE lived it. | ||
| Gods kids (66.99.115.29) |
Duplantis' "theology and doctrine" are fine.The WordFaith group has probably brought more to Christ than all others combined.Crouch is not gay.You need to retract that slander.Repent and apologize. He knows who you are and has VERY big lawyers. | ||
| Anonymous (64.255.96.72) |
"Gods kids" - you lie and try to intimidate people by claiming to know who they are and now threatening with lawyers. You accuse anyone who disagrees with you of being a satanist and/or a "hater" - seems to be a popular tactic on these message boards when people are unable to give rational and/or biblical based answers. Your bullying techniques do not reflect the love of God or the meekness and humility of Christ. Now who's kids are you really? | ||
| QWERTY (64.241.230.3) |
THATS WHAT I WANT TO KNOW TOO WHO DO YOU THINK IS PAYING THEM THESE PROSPARITY PHONIES ONLY WILL DO THINGS FOR MONEY | ||
| Anonymous (68.72.169.198) |
Now your going to tell everyone that Paul Crouch of TBN (The Blasphemy Network) is NOT Gay?? How the hell would you know? He spent $400,000 to keep a gay former employee quiet about a homosexual tryst that he and Paul Crouch had together. He must be another one of your Word Faith heros. Here's the article; http://www.religionnewsblog.com/8715-.html | ||
| Gods kids (66.99.115.29) |
96.72:your posts are getting old.Why the same posts all over?The only one paying us to defend His kids is God.Crouch is NOT,repeat,NOT gay.Not even a little.We know.Trust us.No,he didn't pay anyone to keep quiet.That is rumor.Get your facts right,and not from internet slam sights,before you libel someone.It is in your best interest. | ||
| qwerty (64.241.230.3) |
ooohhh, godskids, yu really scare us!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1 | ||
| Anonymous (68.72.95.215) |
The "Gods kids" IP Address shows the computer they are using might be located in South Holland, approximately 164th and School Street... or maybe Evans Ave Know anyone who lives over there? WHO ARE THESE WHACKOS??? | ||
| Gods kids (66.99.115.29) |
Nope 215.Not even NEAR!YOU ARE IGNORANT!!!And a loser.And stupid.We are fed up with you and your same post on every board.You have brought out the worst in us and in everyone who knows you.We are done defending God's anointed ones.You and your father satan need to repent. And dirty qwerty:get a dictionary or spellcheck.Your posts are painful to read! | ||
| Anonymous (68.253.204.4) |
Gods Kids? The way that you refer to people in the above post shows who and what you are. SATAN'S KIDS | ||
| Anonymous (64.255.96.72) |
Not only that, but you seem to be under the impression 215 and I are the same person. And I thought you knew everything! | ||
| Anonymous (68.253.204.4) |
I never refered to you as being 215. My post was directed to "God's Kids" only. | ||
| Anonymous (64.255.96.72) |
Sorry Anonymous 68.253.204.4 - I was directing my post to "Gods kids" too. | ||
| QWERTY (64.241.230.3) |
LOL!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!GODSKIDS, YOU ARE CRACKING ME UP!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| qwerty (64.241.230.3) |
THESE GUYS ARE NUTS, I CANT STOP LAUGHING!!!!!!!!!! I THINK SOMEONE IS PUTTING THEM UP TO THIS!!!!! THIS HAS TO BE A JOKE!!!! SOME ONE SHOULD LET THIS MAN KNOW THESE PEOPLE ARE DOING THIS, MAYBE THEY ARE TEENS OR SOME KIDS | ||
| new visitor (67.175.255.224) |
Wow! Lots of drama since I was gone. What happened to Gk? M-E-L-T-D-O-W-N... I still like Jesse. He's funny. Maybe not the best word teacher out there, but entertaining. | ||
| Gods kids (66.99.115.29) |
No nv,no meltdown.We'd out you,but you're harmless.And not even a member of any of these churches.You do need to get off of here.Our records show your time is coming dangerously close to you being fully investigated.Leave now. Don't get caught up in the hate of the haters.They are all losers. | ||
| Anonymous (68.72.86.81) |
THESE KIDS KILL ME!! Don't be worried NV, they don't know who you are. They have no records to see that your "time is coming" I have a great idea though... I think a really good idea would be for all of us to simply ignore the "gods kids". They are obviously unbalanced and in great need of emotional and spiritual counseling. Why don't we all just "talk around them" like they're not even here. Ignore their posts entirely, and it will give them NO ONE TO ARGUE WITH. Plus, IT'LL DRIVE 'EM NUTS. (I mean "Nuttier" I think, just like all the "Robbites" on the other strings... they get off on arguing and calling everyone liars. LET'S JUST IGNORE THEM COMPLETELY. | ||
| QWERTY (64.241.230.3) |
TO ABOVE POST TOTALLY AGREE | ||
| Anonymous (65.13.189.216) |
Jesse Rocks!!!!! | ||
| Anonymous (70.113.31.140) |
That's tough. I like to watch these guys on TBN too- they're entertaining & often have some solid challenging stuff to say, but man, it just doesnt sit right with me. it's always "sow into our ministry & God will bless you financially". How about- sow into your local church! What do these guys need more money for anyway? They are *loaded* Does Jesse D need *another* $20m jet? Christians may not *all* be called to give away a major part of their excess income, but I think that the ones that are wildly overflowing with the Spirit probably should be. These people seem to do nothing for the poor outside of a little windowdressing. Benny Hinn seems to support one little orphanage in mexico. The way i see it, these healings are inherently staged to some extent- because that's just how TV works. Partially fake = fake, just like aninas and sapphira in Acts. Talk amongst yourselves. | ||
| Anonymous (63.80.251.75) |
Is Jesse Duplantis funny? YES. Is he entertaining? YES. Is he smooth? YES. Is he a comedian? YES. Does he move people? YES. Does he motivate and encourage people to think God desires nothing more than to bless them with finances/materialism/healing/miracles? YES. Is he what the claims to be? A man of God, God's servant preaching the gospel, visited heaven numerous times and spoke with Jesus, respects God in his humor, has only others best in mind, doesn't care more about money than the norm, only has people's best interest at heart, is scripturally sound in his theology? Is truly a man of God? I THINK NOT!!!!!!!! | ||
| Anonymous (68.90.67.245) |
Anonymous (63.80.251.75) That's a BOLD JUDGEMENT. Your opinion doesn't matter.  | ||
| adsw22 (64.241.230.3) |
I SEEN THIS MAN AT FAMILY HARVEST CHURCH AND HE IS A BIG PHONEY | ||
| ecc73 (67.165.167.100) |
I seen him too. I seen a lot of things. I seen my brother marry my cousin. I seen a lot of old cars in my front yard. I seen my one front tooth in the mirror this morning. I think I seen it all. | ||
| QWERTY (64.241.230.3) |
WHAT ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY NOW ECC? QUIT TALKING IN RIDDLES JUST SAY WHAT YOU MEAN | ||
| ecc73 (67.165.167.100) |
Sorry. I was just trying to be funny. If you didn't get it, then don't worry about it. I guess my sense of humor is different than yours. | ||
| Anonymous (68.90.67.245) |
LOLOLOLOL!!!! | ||
| Anonymous (69.209.20.56) |
ecc73, Like I said on the other board. You're not funny! | ||
| ecc73 (67.165.167.100) |
Maybe not, but you are. | ||
| Anonymous (205.188.117.12) |
With Souls Weighed In The Balance And Found Wanting,I Wonder How God Looks On all Thats Been Posted On This Website.From The Abundance Of The Heart The Mouth Speaketh, May God Have Mercy!!!! | ||
| Anonymous (68.78.66.238) |
TRUE DAT | ||
| Anonymous (208.24.179.208) |
Anointed Gnostic - Mr. Jesse Duplantis http://www.discernment.org/wordfaith/jesse.htm Jesse Duplantis A man with a short theology and tall tales http://www.letusreason.org/Popteac12.htm http://www.geocities.com/bob_hunter/duplantis.html http://www.cephasministry.com/evangelists_duplantis.html M or Michael | ||
| Anonymous (205.188.117.12) |
Lord,Give Us A Burden For The Lost And The Dying and The Hurting Of This World Instead Of Trying To Find Fault In The Ministry. Satan Is AN Accuser Of The Brethren.Let Us Get Our Eyes On Jesus And His Work And His Will. The LOrd Himself Shall Separate The Wheat From The Tares!!!!! | ||
| Anonymous (68.116.208.44) |
I STUMBLED ON THESE POSTING;IF PEOPLE REALLY KNEW THE TRUTH ABOUT JESSE DUPLANTIS THEY WOULD NOT HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH HIM;I KNOW THE FAMILY;JESSE DOESN'T CARE ABOUT HIS DAD;HE HASN'T VISTED HIM AT HIS DAD'S HOUSE IN 25 YEARS;HIS DAD IS A MINISTER FOR 50 YEARS;HE ALSO HAS A BROTHER NAME MARK DUPLANTIS WHO IS REAL AS THEY COME AND IS GETTING QUITE KNOWN ALL OVER THE US;WEBSITE IS MARKDUPLANTIS.COM ; YET JESSE HAS NOTHING TO DO WITH HIS OWN FAMILY;MAYBE HE FEARS HIS BROTHER MIGHT EXPOSE HIS DECEPTIONS! | ||
| Anonymous (24.20.89.119) |
Jesse's always reminded me of a smiling Jack Ass, he just needs the ears. | ||
| Anonymous (205.188.117.12) |
Lord Give Us A Burden Instead Of Finding Fault.Why Does Satan Need To Look Outside The Camp For Someone To Find Fault When He Can Get The brethren To Point a Finger and backbite And Devour One Another. We Need To Look at Our Own Heart Before We go Passing Judgement On One Another. With What Judgement We Meet out, Thats Also The Judgement We;ll Be Judged By. | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.117.13) |
When someone feels and acts upon the call to be a minister he knows that all the eyes of the world will be upon him from then on. It is in some ways a life like that of a politician. Living in a fishbowl. To a greater degree than, it is like calling yourself a Christian. The world is watching. A minister has many responsibilities to the body of Christ. He represents the body of Christ. He is the local organizer of the church. To live a life beyond reproach, modestly, humbly and honestly is the goal. It is up to the body of Christ to watch for and then fire any minister who fails in this task and responsibility. It is our responsibility as Christians to Christ. So keep up with the discussion. Just make absolutely certain that there are no false witnesses writing here. | ||
| Bob J. (66.74.39.109) |
May I raise an important issue relative to sexual scandal and why individuals who bear awesome responsibility before God fall as the Bakers and Rev.Swaggert. The key word would be "accountability"! Any organization from the smallest to a monolith like TBN will always be vulnerable when their basic structure lacks accountability from those at the top. Christians who lead the many need devout people around them to keep them on track. How often do you hear this concept being hammered over and over instead of sermons pointing us to wealth or threatening prayers against real or perceived enemies of truth? In a world such as we presently live in there are a multitude of temptations our parents were not even faced with. If your sexual desires are out of control do you seek help from a Christian therapist who specializes in such matters? Or maybe a Pastor with a specialty in marital problems. Or do you just say I need to pray harder and read and recite more scripture? We need to seek help from those we have chosen (in wisdom) to be accountable to, so that we never get to the point where we go into a tailspin and provide the unbeliever with another reason to mock God's name. Does this sound too solemn? After his sin with Bathsheba David faced irreversable consequences. The child she was carrying would not be spared from the shadow of death and in addition to this he was warned that a sword would arise out of his own home. Remember Absalom? The word of the Lord through the prophet Nathan was "...because by doing this you have made the enemies of the Lord show utter contempt". I do not say here that Mr.Crouch is guilty. But if the cost in terms of damage to the ministry of TBN is as real as some fear then he must consider stepping aside.There is much to be risked if denial of the accusations fail to convince the millions who follow this ministry. I was at one time a great admirer of Jimmy Swaggert. I knew of no one in all my exposure to the preaching by giants of the scriptures who ever preached more effectively against the use of alcohol than Jimmy. The message was true, but the messenger was loaded down with his sins. I live less than 15 miles from Indio, the place where he solicited a woman who was even recognized by the officer who stopped him! "How the mighty have fallen!" All Christians would do well to consider the pre-emptive benefit of a structure of accountability in each of our circles of association.GOD HELP US! | ||
| god_dependant (god_dependant) New member Username: god_dependant Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.199.27.218 |
You are entitled to your oppinion, but Jessie has been to our church several times and my husband has worked directly with him and you cannot dispute his annointing and how your spirit rejoices in his prescence. He is truley a man of God who is completely debt free and there are not too many of us that can say that and when you sow your money in good ground it better be into a debt free ground! You can argue all you want but God says to test Him in tithes & offerings. Insead of spending your time arguing the point just try it for yourself and see if God doesn't give you a blessing or meet a need noone else knows about. Just tell God what you are sowing for and than you will have your answer. This is the first time I have seen this sight, and it is real disturbing to me that people would make such an issue of this when all you have to do is test for yourself. I depend on God for my income and for paying my bills and I too hope to be debt free soon! When you live on faith you get it when you don't you can't understand. God wants us to depend on Him for everything!}}} | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) New member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.43.195.202 |
Purely subjective experience. We are to test experience in light of scripture, not the reverse. His teaching is clearly another gospel and certainly not in line with scripture. So I guess the poor don't have faith? The Bible has more to say about the poor having great faith. Jesus would have nothing to do with that kind of preaching whatsoever. If you follow him it's not the Holy Spirit leading you as the Holy Spirit would never lead you to follow a false gospel, a false teacher, and a false faith which Jesse is. M or Michael | ||
| sue (sue) New member Username: sue Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.255.96.72 |
You know what would be interesting for all you folks "sowing" for finances? Do a study on how often Christ talked about the importance of gaining material wealth compared to how often your preacher of choice talks about it. BTW - I am debt free except for my house. Since I stopped tithing God has blessed me in all kinds of ways including financially. I am a giver, but not a tither. | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) New member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.43.195.202 |
Matthew 6:19-24 19 "Do not lay up for yourselves treasures on earth, where moth and rust destroy and where thieves break in and steal; 20 but lay up for yourselves treasures in heaven, where neither moth nor rust destroys and where thieves do not break in and steal. 21 For where your treasure is, there your heart will be also. Sue, I'm with you, I'm a giver and not a tither. I give of my time, my treasures, whatever God needs whenever He needs it. I give out of love, not out of compulsion or to give so I can get. M or Michael | ||
| god_dependant (god_dependant) New member Username: god_dependant Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.199.27.218 |
God says that 10% is His. You should do that regardless just because He comands it of us. And to NWM I live on Faith only! I am not rich, but I have what I need and we are happy! You can't argue when you feel God in it and I love the prescence of GOD! | ||
| sue (sue) New member Username: sue Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.255.96.72 |
Where does God say that to New Testament gentile Christians? | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) New member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 208.24.179.29 |
2 Cor 9:7 So let each one give as he purposes in his heart, not grudgingly or of necessity; for God loves a cheerful giver. Not tithing but giving out of love from pure heart. You might feel that God is in it for you but don't force that requirement on everyone else. If you want to tithe you better read the old testament then because there were 3 tithes, why choose one and not all? Some of the scriptures in the old testament where they talk about tithes also talk about keeping the sabbath. Do you keep it and keep it fully too? From Grace To You - John McArthur ****** Two kinds of giving are taught consistently throughout Scripture: giving to the government (always compulsory), and giving to God (always voluntary). The issue has been greatly confused, however, by some who misunderstand the nature of the Old Testament tithes. Tithes were not primarily gifts to God, but taxes for funding the national budget in Israel. Because Israel was a theocracy, the Levitical priests acted as the civil government. So the Levite's tithe (Leviticus 27:30-33) was a precursor to today's income tax, as was a second annual tithe required by God to fund a national festival (Deuteronomy 14:22-29). Smaller taxes were also imposed on the people by the law (Leviticus 19:9-10; Exodus 23:10-11). So the total giving required of the Israelites was not 10 percent, but well over 20 percent. All that money was used to operate the nation. All giving apart from that required to run the government was purely voluntary (cf. Exodus 25:2; 1 Chronicles 29:9). Each person gave whatever was in his heart to give; no percentage or amount was specified. New Testament believers are never commanded to tithe. Matthew 22:15-22 and Romans 13:1-7 tell us about the only required giving in the church age, which is the paying of taxes to the government. Interestingly enough, we in America presently pay between 20 and 30 percent of our income to the government--a figure very similar to the requirement under the theocracy of Israel. The guideline for our giving to God and His work is found in 2 Corinthians 9:6-7: "Now this I say, he who sows sparingly shall also reap sparingly; and he who sows bountifully shall also reap bountifully. Let each one do just as he has purposed in his heart; not grudgingly or under compulsion; for God loves a cheerful giver." ********** Test your knowledge on Tithing: http://www.gotosimpletruth.com/tithing_test.html Better be careful. You might find out when tithing in the church started, by whom. To make an argument for tithing you either have to try to use old testament passages or extensive rhetoric. But either case catches you other quandries where you better not go. Eph 2:15 Christ, Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace; 16 And that he might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby: The Temple rituals are gone the way of the cross, so have sacrifices, offerings and tithes. James 2: 12So speak ye, and so do, as they that shall be judged by the law of liberty. 13For he shall have judgment without mercy, that hath shewed no mercy; and mercy rejoiceth against judgment. We are never told where to worship, or when. (John 4:20-25) We are told to not forsake the assembling of ourselves together, (Heb 10:25) but we are not told how often to assemble. We are not told how often to celebrate the Lord's Supper. We are not told that Christ instituted a new Sabbath to replace the seventh day Sabbath. We are not told we must be in church (assemble ourselves together) every time the church doors open. We are not told all of our Christian giving must go only to the church where we are members. We are never told how much to give. We are never told what to give. In all these things, we have been given, by grace, the liberty that is found in Jesus Christ. This is how we are commanded to give: 2 Cor 9:7 Every man according as he purposes in his heart, so let him give; not grudgingly, or of necessity: for God loves a cheerful giver. M or Michael | ||
| god_dependant (god_dependant) New member Username: god_dependant Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.199.27.218 |
Hebrews 7:5-9 | ||
| sue (sue) New member Username: sue Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.255.96.72 |
Michael - Excellent post - loved the website. These are the same questions I try to ask people who believe they are subject to the law of the tithe! Of course, I'll answer them for free! | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) New member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 9 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.43.195.202 |
And indeed those who are of the sons of Levi, who receive the priesthood, have a commandment to receive tithes from the people according to the law, that is, from their brethren, though they have come from the loins of Abraham; The first thing is the very first sentence sets the context. Hebrews was written to Hebrews and it was recalling something in historical context, not as a commandment for Christians. That's what I said, to make an argument for tithing you either have to point to old testament to try and make your argument or lots of rhetoric. From Bible.org ***** The question one always must ask when dealing with Old Testament practices and commands is this: “Does the New Testament (1) embrace and continue, or (2) modify, or (3) do away with this Old Testament practice? The New Testament surely set aside the “clean/unclean” food regulations of the Old Testament (Mark 7; Acts 10-11). By and large, the Ten Commandments have been carried over into the New Testament. Those laws which pertained to the administration of justice have (at least some of them) been modified. It is no longer our duty or obligation to stone disobedient children. The state/government does administrate justice, which may even include capital punishment (this is debated by some, but lets leave it at this for the moment). Certainly we are not to stone adulterers today, though we are to “hand them over to Satan” (1 Cor. 5) for the destruction of their flesh. So, the question must be, where does tithing fit into this scheme? Has it been brought over into the New Testament age, or has it been set aside, or modified? I would have to say that the whole tithing system cannot be brought over, in a wholesale fashion, to the church age or the New Testament saint. We are not physical Israel. We don’t live in the promised land. We don’t have a Levitical priesthood, or sacrifices to offer (literally, at least). We are, however, to support those who minister to us (1 Corinthians 9:1-14; 1 Galatians 6:6; 1 Timothy 5:17-18). We are to give to the poor, especially the saints (Acts 6:1-6; Romans 12:13; 1 Corinthians 16:1f.; 2 Corinthians 8 & 9; Gal. 2:10; 6:10; etc.). From 2 Corinthians 8 & 9 and Philippians 4, we certainly see that our giving should be out of gratitude, and something we joyfully do. The whole concept of stewardship should abolish the mindset that says, “Ten percent of what I own is to be given to God, but the remaining ninety percent is mine.” It is all God’s. As stewards, we are to wisely invest it for the glory of God and the advancement of His kingdom. In the 2 Corinthians (8 & 9) text and the Philippians 4 passage I do not see Paul appealing to the Law as the basis for giving, as though it was only our duty. I see Paul speaking of giving as though it were our delight, as it should be. All of this is to say that I would not seek to employ the Malachi text to badger saints to give. I would use the New Testament texts such as those I have mentioned to do so. We should give. Most of us should give more than we do. But I don’t personally find the Malachi text the compelling text for teaching others about giving. **** Tithing is not to be imposed upon the new covenant believer. Instead Christians are to give in the same way they live, by grace. Tithing is not mentioned after the Cross and the inauguration of the new covenant with the exception of Hebrews 7:5-9. These verses in Hebrews are not used to support tithing, they are given as a historical reference to demonstrate the principle of genetic identity. The foundation for new covenant giving can be found in 2 Corinthians 8-9. The key is 2 Corinthians 9:7, the believer is to give "as he has purposed in his heart." Some believers still use tithing as a guideline in their giving. This practice is fine as long as tithing does not become a legalistic practice or is made to be an indicator of spirituality. The Encyclopedia Americana (s.v. "tithe"): "It (tithing) was not practised in the early Christian church but gradually became common (in the Roman Catholic church in western Europe) by the 6th Century. The Council of Tours in 567 and the 2nd Council of Macon in 585 advocated tithing. Made obligatory by civil law in the Carolingian empire in 765 and in England in the 10th Century... The Reformation did not abolish tithing and the practice was continued in the Roman Catholic church and in Protestant countries (until it was) gradually replaced by other forms of taxation. The Roman Catholic church still prescribes tithes in countries where they are sanctioned by law, and some Protestant bodies consider tithes obligatory." [Heb. 7:18] Also, the priesthood was so fundamental to the Old Covenant between God and His people (the whole relationship was constituted in dependence upon its ministry), that any change in the order of priesthood must of necessity imply and involve a change in the whole constitution; i.e. it implies nothing less than an accompanying new, and indeed better, covenant. M or Michael | ||
| sue (sue) New member Username: sue Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.255.96.72 |
gd The scipture you site does not say we are required to tithe. Those chapters in Hebrews are intended to explain how Christ can be our High Priest without being from the tribe of Levi. In this passage it is comparing Christ's priesthood to that of Melchizedek's. Melchizedek was not a descendant of Levi, he came BEFORE Levi. Let's look at the whole passage IN CONTEXT: 1This Melchizedek was king of Salem and priest of God Most High. He met Abraham returning from the defeat of the kings and blessed him, 2and Abraham gave him a tenth of everything. First, his name means "king of righteousness"; then also, "king of Salem" means "king of peace." 3Without father or mother, without genealogy, without beginning of days or end of life, like the Son of God he remains a priest forever. 4Just think how great he was: Even the patriarch Abraham gave him a tenth of the plunder! 5Now the law requires the descendants of Levi who become priests to collect a tenth from the people--that is, their brothers--even though their brothers are descended from Abraham. 6This man, however, did not trace his descent from Levi, yet he collected a tenth from Abraham and blessed him who had the promises. 7And without doubt the lesser person is blessed by the greater. 8In the one case, the tenth is collected by men who die; but in the other case, by him who is declared to be living. 9One might even say that Levi, who collects the tenth, paid the tenth through Abraham, 10because when Melchizedek met Abraham, Levi was still in the body of his ancestor. Once again, this passage is meant to establish that Christ is our High Priest. If you continue through the rest of the chapter, you will find the argument that Jesus is like Melchizedek. Please note verse 12: "For when there is a change of the priesthood, there must also be a change of the law." No where in this section, speaking of Christ being our high priest does it suggest that we are to tithe. Note: Abraham tithed only on the plunder he acquired in that particular war. There is no mention anywhere in the rest of the bible on Abraham "tithing" on a regular basis. | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) New member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 10 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.43.195.202 |
Sue, Thanks. This is a great exercise for me as I'm going to have to explain this to my pastor as he has been been hard on the church. Some people are feeling inadequate because they are not at the point they can. When you get hit over the head at about every sermon it's really hurting people and some are ready to leave and frankly I'm sick of it. It's basically expecting everyone to live up to his convictions which can be disputed. So pray for me as I prepare to talk to him with grace and truth. I know he's going to resist but I'm still going to talk to him. M or Michael | ||
| god_dependant (god_dependant) New member Username: god_dependant Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.199.27.218 |
This scripture means when you pay your tithes that you aknowledge Him as your high priest -I am at work and there is no point in arguing the facts because I am living proof that it works. If your not tithing the way you should then you are just missing out on your blessing. | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) New member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 11 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 208.24.179.29 |
I acknowledge Christ as my high priest, not an earthly priest. You're living proof of only that you can tithe. I'm glad you can and glad you're receiving blessing but that in no way proves the truth of it. One could make the point they are not tithing and receiving as much and not more blessings than one that is tithing. What you ultimately have to point to is scripture and the new testament in no way teaches tithing for Christians. Neither does it support the Word of Faith teachings, period. I am blessed at every turn that I cannot begin to thank Him for all of them. Don't work too hard and thanks for at least giving your thoughts on the subject. M or Michael | ||
| sue (sue) New member Username: sue Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.231.183.30 |
Michael - I will remember you in my prayers. I went through the same thing with a pastor several years ago. He wouldn't concede that I was right but he was not able to refute anything I said either. I have since left that church but was able to do so with a clear conscience - at least I tried. I'm not one to look for confrontation - normally I avoid it at all costs - but it was definitly the Holy Spirit. Our conversation was decent and respectful in tone. I didn't go in to "straighten him out" - I was just looking for truth. I found it - just not the way I was looking for it. I still pray for him and hold no ill will toward him tho I know many people who have been hurt by his teachings. He has continued on in greater and greater error to the peril of his own soul I fear. So, speak the truth in love and humility, carefully guarding your own heart. "Now to Him who is able to keep you from stumblng, and to present you faultless before the presence of His glory with exceeding joy, To God our Savior, who alone is wise, be glory and majesty, dominion and power forever. Amen." | ||
| stephi1396 (stephi1396) New member Username: stephi1396 Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 65.6.122.152 |
It is interesting to hear ya'll talking about tithing. That is one thing I love about my church. Our pastor comes from a church that put a lot of emphasis on money. He now is adament about making sure noone feels pressured to give. He even goes to great lenghts to ensure that the church knows exactly what is coming in. He puts a weekly note in the bulletin stating how much-to the penny-came in for tithes and offerings. He also makes sure that people know when big money is going to be spent so that there are no questions. This, I feel, is revolutionary. | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) New member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 24 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Tithing is under the law. I feel that the important thing to learn is to be a good steward (which I am still working on) and giving as you can and as you are lead. Regardless, the law is the law and we are no longer under the law. I would like to state that there may be some who are making money off of individuals by deception, etc. There are many ministers and missionaries that give up much and struggle to get by because of following God's call. This is not to say that God doesn't bless some with monetary gain; it is to say that God uses us in different ways. I don't think you can judge a ministry by the ministries finances because the job God may be doing in that ministry may not required extreme dollar amounts (although, I would venture to say that many ministries are doing with less than most would believe they are - and I am not talking about the deceptive type of ministers - cause I can only speculate who they are based on their own actions). Accountability is the key. Having said all of that I cannot really contribute concerning the individual discussed about on this board. | ||
| god_dependant (god_dependant) New member Username: god_dependant Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.199.27.218 |
Mike, I can’t spend a lot of time on this, but I wanted to give you this scripture on tithing and blessings. Malachi 3:6-12 “For I am Lord, I do not change; (New Test or Old) Therefore you are not consumed, O sons of Jacob. Yet from the days of your fathers you have gone away from My ordinances and have not kept them. Return to Me, and I will return to you,” Says the LORD of Hosts. “But you said, In what way shall we return?’ “Will a man rob God? Yet you have robbed ME! “But you say, In what way have we robbed you?’ In tithes and offerings. You are cursed with a curse, for you have robbed Me, Even this whole nation. Bring all the tithes into the storehouse, that there may be food in My house, and try Me now in this,” Says the LORD of hosts, “If I will not open for you the windows of heaven and pour out for you such blessing that there will not be room enough to receive it. “And I will rebuke the devourer (curse) for you sakes, So that he (satan) will not destroy the fruit of the ground, Nor shall the vine fail to bear fruit for you in the field,” Says the LORD of host; And all the nations will call you blessed, For you will be A delightful land,” Says the LORD of host. I am not saying that you will go to hell if you don’t tithe, but I believe when you don’t have money to tithe is when you should tithe, because God moves on faith and that is trusting him to keep your money from curses and you will accomplish what you set out to accomplish. Such as receiving money you never expected to pay a bill you didn’t know how you were going to pay and God also rebukes the devourer by not letting things break down on you when you don’t have the money to have them repaired. Ever had everything hit at once? Well, I have. I have gone through times of not tithing and could not get ahead no matter what I tried and gone back to tithing and things stay on an even keel and I have nothing to worry about, because I rest assured in faith that what comes my way God has already provided the way because I pay my tithes and He is faithful to rebuke the devour on my finances. Because of my faith and obedience God honors my needs reguardless of whose right and whose wrong. I just want you to see that tithing is much more than money it is working in the spiritual realm for you as well. I am not trying to argue I just wanted to show this to you and help you understand why people believe so strongly in it. Because of my faithfulness God has GIVEN me a house (no mortgage) and now my husband and I have great new cars to drive and all this in about 5 yrs from nothing. I never dreamed I would have what I have and my child was healed and didn’t have to go through heart surgery and my husband started a business on faith and God met every bill and need and kept us from being sick until we could get insurance in place and sent people to encourage my husband through the tough times. God has protected us and saved us! He is awesome! Also you have to understand that the churches cannot survive without tithes and offerings, they have to pay the same bills you pay at home and need to reach out to others and help them and bring in the lost and they can't do that with one person they need the body of Christ to do their part. God says to pay tithes so that there maybe food in His house. In our day we have needs along with food. Just keep these things in mind if you ever go through some tough times and struggles, try sacrificing your tithes and offerings and watch God move the problems out of the way and help you get the financial breakthrough you need. This has been great experience for me, Thanks… | ||
| sue (sue) New member Username: sue Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.255.96.72 |
gd Did I miss something? I didn't see where Mike said he was in need of a financial breakthrough. Also, if the law is meant for the NT church as well (your comment on "I am the Lord and I change not") why aren't you following the law in it's entirety? I'll bet you aren't even following the actual law of the tithe correctly. Did you know the tithe was NOT given to the Levites every year? Do you know how often it actually went to them? Do you know what God commanded be done with the tithe in the off years? All of that said, you have an awesome testimony. But is it possible your blessings are a result of your obedience to GOD in this matter (as opposed to obedience to some preacher manipulating you into doing it). I too have been abundantly blessed - there have been times in my life when I have tithed and NOT received God's blessing and there have been times in my life when God's blessings were poured out on me when I wasn't tithing. While I appreciate your testimony, it brought to my mind several good, decent, God loving people that I've known personally who have tithed themselves right into bankruptcy. I've know mothers who were torn over what to do - pay their tithes or purchase prescription meds for their sick children. God loves us as a father and provides for us because he loves us. Our part is to be obedient to him. For some people, at some times that includes tithing. For others it means sacrificial giving, for others it has nothing to do with money at all. At the end of the day, you are required to do what God has told YOU to do. If you believe it is God's will for you to tithe, then you are bound to do so. But the fact remains, as gentiles and Christians, there is no commandment to tithe. In fact, we are required to be generous with all we have, keeping what we need and helping others with the rest. | ||
| god_dependant (god_dependant) New member Username: god_dependant Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.199.27.218 |
I am not refferring to the law. I am reffering to God's Word. His Word never comes back void. He is not a lieing God. If His word says it than He will do it. I was just trying to shed some light on why I beleive in Tithing. I didn't come here to argue the point just give a different veiw. If you don't want to tithe that's your choice. God said He changes not and if he told us in His Word that He would rebuke the devour He will. He isn't going to change just because He gave His son He redeemed us of the law, so that through the Blood we might be saved. The laws were given as a guide line to follow as well. The ten commandments were under the old law and yet Jesus tells us the importance of them in the New Test. I say all of this in love not an argumentative way. I just wanted people to that God tells things for our good. Weather we believe them or not is up to us, but I know it works and God never said we would not be faced with trials and hardship, but He will always turn it around for His good so that He might be Praised! It may seem dark for awhile, but He is teaching us through our experiences for something He has for us later that we cannot see. Faith is the substance of things hoped for and not yet seen. I just want to open your eyes to another veiw. If God says it He will do it no matter where it is in the bible NT or OT. He plainly says...SAYS THE LORD OF HOST. This is His quote and it is true. | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) New member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.43.195.202 |
Sue, I'm with you. I'd like for his answer on: Also, if the law is meant for the NT church as well (your comment on "I am the Lord and I change not") why aren't you following the law in it's entirety? He has to follow it completely, all of the tithes mentioned too btw. gd, The promise and curse of the Malachi scripture is a restatement of what was already included as part of the Mosaic law (covenant) which required the Israelites to keep all sorts of laws of which tithing was just one. The Israelites failed repeatedly to keep their part of the covenant. Fortunately we have a 'better' covenant (Heb 7:22). We should not be trying to keep any part of those laws but instead realize it's God's grace that we need (Gal 5:3-4). Tithing really doesn't work for you. That's just what you think and you are in error. What you are doing is not really tithing anyway. In order to tithe according to the Mosaic law you would first have to be an Israelite or a convert, live after the Mosaic law was put into effect and before Jesus rose from the dead, give your tithe of food (Lev 27:30) and animals (Lev 27:32) to the Levites, at the one place on earth God reserved for his name (The Temple), tithe again every third year (Deut 14:28), understand when you yourself are supposed to eat the tithe (Deut 14:23) etc. Any blessings you receive is because of God's grace being extended to you and NOT because of your 'tithing'. "Will a man ROB God?" How many untold tens of thousands of men will give account one day for teaching this verse in Malachi 3:8 totally out of context for their own sordid gain. I couldn’t count the times I have heard self-appointed ministers of the gospel berate their congregations and listeners for "robbing God" in tithes and offerings. This verse in Malachi certainly means what it says. Someone was defrauding God of tithes and offerings, but wait until you find out who it is that God blames for this act. What then is the 21st Century application of this Malachi Prophecy? Are we now to tithe money? Let’s read Malachi 3:10 very carefully: WHAT were they robbing God of? "tithes AND offerings." Tithes of what? Products from the land—grains and cattle. WHERE were they to bring the tithes? To the "storehouse" [Hebrew: ‘garner’-- a granary for grain]. WHY did God want these tithes of the land brought to the "storehouse" (the granary)? "That there may be meat [bread] in Mine house [God’s house, Not the granary]." I guess you better start sacrificing as well as Malachi 1 talks about their offerings. The text simply cannot be taken out of it's context and applied directly to us, not without having to accept other things you're not willing to. Like I've said before, in order to make and argument for tithing you have to point to either old testament passages, references to them, or lots of rhetoric. But to get tithing from new testament passages is simply NOT THERE. Are you paying all 3 tithes and the way prescribed by God? Are you following the other commands that God commanded then for offerings, sacrifices, etc? You can't pick and choose. Either you follow the WHOLE law fully or you're guilty of the whole law. That or you can be under grace. I know which I'll take. M or Michael | ||
| nwmomike (nwmomike) New member Username: nwmomike Post Number: 13 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 207.43.195.202 |
gd, What financial breakthrough? You must have read that in someone else' post. M or Michael | ||
| god_dependant (god_dependant) New member Username: god_dependant Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.199.27.218 |
And again, It is not the law I am discussing when I gave this scripture. It is about what GOD said! He said He do all that in that scripture and He is the same today, yesterday, and forever. It's no when and why He said it He said what He will do if we pay tithes. He is not going to lie. He will do it because He said it. I just want to let others know there is anther way of looking at it. This is not about the law it is about what God said He would do. We don't make a living with only grains and cattle now, so we bring our earnings, which happen to be money and as I said before, that our church today has to pay for lights, utilities, phone, equipment, and minitry and that is to just name a few. The "food" we would bring to "feed" the church would be money to pay for these things and if Gods people didn't give than how could we send so many people out the nations which He comands. You either do this or you don't it is not a law. You do it with the FAITH that God will do what He says. That SIMPLE, Not a LAW argument. To other people who visit this sight there is a better way. Pray and ask God to show you the truth and reveal this to you. So many people want to argue the point and that is really pointless. Either you have a heart to give or you don't. The bible says where your treasure is there your heart will be also. Watch where you money goes and see how much goes toward the Gospel and how much toward yourself. Either you trust God with HIS money or you don't. Not a LAW issue. Please be careful when reading into other oppinions. Pray and find out for yourself. | ||
| god_dependant (god_dependant) New member Username: god_dependant Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.199.27.218 |
I was just say that if you Ever go through financial difficulty than give this a test. Hope you never have too. | ||
| oysterdipp (oysterdipp) New member Username: oysterdipp Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.206.185.233 |
I pray that no one here has to experience a financial difficulty. God dependent, just please make sure that you put your trust in God and not in someone like Jesse. Believe me, I know him better than your husband. | ||
| bibleman (bibleman) Member Username: bibleman Post Number: 60 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.167.27.78 |
"Jesus has redeemed us from the CURSE of the law..Galatians 3:13 The curse and the law has been removed..Jesus fulfilled the law for us and paid the price of sin ... "so that the blessing of Abraham would come upon us the gentiles" Galatians 3:13 You are to give ONLY as the Lord leads by His Spirit and and ONLY to good stewardship and fruit bearing high results ministry. (That easily cuts out those ministers drivng $100,000 cars, wearing $30,000 Rolex's,$5,000 suits, etc general lust for the world living not in modeeration,living in over opulent mansions,producing NO RESULTS TV programs costing millions,etc...) You are not to give out of obligation or by obligation.You are not cursed if you don't give. You just won't have seed working for you to get a bountiful harvest. There are good stewardship good fruit bearing ministries without the leadership having to use the money on their own self-centered worldly lusts and greed. Those getting a good result of may souls saved,and using their money wisely. Only give to those ministries that are willing to show where ALL the finances go. Never give when begged or guilt ridden by fear offerings. Only give in faith to those using money wisely. The law and the handwriting of ordinances have been blotted out Col 2:14 and removed by Jesus. The law could never save us and no one could ever follow it perfectly. Only Jesus did and could. God gave it so we would see how much we need a savior. "For the LAW IS NOT OF FAITH" Galatians 3:12 | ||
| jjd (jjd) New member Username: jjd Post Number: 1 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.43.25.133 |
I tithe every week, I try to only give to genuine ministries. If I unknowingly given to someone, who uses it un-wisely, then that is on his hands. But if I give to a ministry and I know they have an un-Godly rep, then that's on me. | ||
| exposer (exposer) New member Username: exposer Post Number: 10 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 168.143.113.125 |
Beware, he is a false prophet using the pretense of the gospel for filthy lucre's sake! Beware of those who would manipulate you and use mesmerism, hypnotism, and manipulative speech. This is not of God! Do not look into the eyes of evil manipulators!!! Look to the Word of God! | ||
| jjd (jjd) New member Username: jjd Post Number: 2 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.43.25.133 |
(Exposer) You're right, he got them funny eyes. | ||
| jjd (jjd) New member Username: jjd Post Number: 3 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 209.43.25.133 |
RE:Turtle Their impression would be a real one. | ||
| billiefan2000 (billiefan2000) New member Username: billiefan2000 Post Number: 1 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 67.130.119.210 |
Jessus Duplantis cruelly equates people that oppose the "Prosperity Gospel" to the terrorists from September 11. Jesse Duplantis equates them to christians "Who fly" accusations into them! How cruel to to equate that with terrorists "that flew" their planes into those buildings and committed 2,500 hundred murders! http://www.myfortress.org/JesseDuplantis.html (Message edited by billiefan2000 on February 16, 2005) | ||
| pleasant (pleasant) Junior Member Username: pleasant Post Number: 32 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 205.188.116.9 |
Concerning the tithing discussion above. The tithe(s) under the law equaled about 23% of a person's income annually. So giving 10% is a moot point anyway. | ||
| csd (csd) New member Username: csd Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 216.78.63.249 |
Jesus said to go out into all the world and preach and teach the gospel,, how can this best be accomplished in todays time,,The word says we will gain knowledge to toward the end of time, and we have,,the best way to get gods word into all these far off countries is by satillite,, programs such as DAYSTAR, TBN, TCC, THE WORD ETC..ARE ACTUALLY REACHING THE WORLD,, IF WE DON'T SUPPORT THESE MINISTRIES WHO WILL.. I CAN'T JUDGE EVERY MINISTER ON TV,, I'M SURE SOME HAVE FALLEN TO SIN??? BUT I WILL TELL YOU WHAT JESUS SAID!!!! LET HIM AMOUNG YOU WITHOUT SIN CAST THE FIRST STONE???? CAN I ASK FOR FORGIVENESS AND BE FORGIVEN,, SURE I CAN,, SO CAN JIMMY SWAGGERT AND ANYONE ELSE I TITHE BECAUSE I LOVE JESUS,,AND I BELIEVE WE SHOULD SUPPORT GODS HOUSE AND KEEP THE DOORS OPEN IF NO-ONE GAVE THE DOORS WOULD CLOSE,, IT IS OUR RESPONSIBILITY, TO SEE THE WORD OF GOD IS HEARD THROUGH OUT THE WORLD,, AND IF YOU LOVE JESUS YOU BELIEVE IT TOO. THANKYOU AND GOD BLESS CD | ||
| luke418 (luke418) New member Username: luke418 Post Number: 5 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 68.162.89.15 |
you should bring your tithe to the storehouse which hopefully is the local assembly that you are in covenant with...and by the way tithing started in covenant with Abraham and was confirmed in the law with Moses. | ||
| infoman (infoman) Intermediate Member Username: infoman Post Number: 106 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.175.179.251 |
The "prosperity gospel" needs to be Biblically defined and separated from the Biblical fact that God wants all Christians to be in constant loving relationship with Him, be good stewards of all they are and have, and that he wants to Bless all his children-spiritually, physically, mentally, emotionally, materially and financially within the parameters of GOOD STEWARDSHIP. Don't throw the Bible out with "lust filled over extravagent, over spending, Rolex wearing, bad stewardship, insecure status seeking people. Only support and Put your treasure in those ministries that show open financial statements, and Produce Big Results of salvation.(That includes churchs) "Your heart will be where your treasure is" Where the minister put his money is where his heart is. "The Blessing of the Lord maketh one rich, and He adds no sorrow to it,neither can ones own toil increase." Prov 10:22 "Charge those that be rich in this world to be rich towards God" | ||
| oysterdipp (oysterdipp) New member Username: oysterdipp Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.206.177.251 |
What's wrong with a Rolex? | ||
| ultimate1 (ultimate1) Intermediate Member Username: ultimate1 Post Number: 396 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.175.179.251 |
If you have to ask that STUPID question then you don't know how badly designed a Rolex is and how stupidly expensive it is. $30,000 piece of garbage made by a company so they can laugh all the way to a the bank...appealing to peoples lust and need for status and self-esteem. NOTE: The world will make anything with a high price it can sell by creating a "FALSE image of success and status" for those who buy and own these things. (Its all in the advertising.) You are not what you wear, what you drive or what house you live in. Luke 12:15 Jesus states:...... "And he said unto them, Take heed, and beware of covetousness: for a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." For anyone to put $30,000 on their wrist to tell time with is an act of Someone who buys a $10,000 - $30,000 Rolex is just plain STUPID! Rolex laughs at you all the way to the bank. Someone who buys these stupid things as gifts is also just as stupid. It's the ultimate example poor stewardship waste and management of money you can do. To give the world all this money for these ugly trinkets of status and ego is lust out of control bearing a bad harvest. Totally poor stewardship. The world will make anything with a high price it can sell by creating a FALSE image of success and status for those who buy and own these things. (Its all in the advertising.) A minister or pastor wearing a Rolex is putting his own self-centered greed and insecurity above the ministry of the Gospel. Makiing it a target of ridicule, and causing both Christians and non-believers to stumble. In the mean time millions die and enter a dark eternity daily where for only a few dollars towards results producing evangelism many would have been saved. Not to mention all the good things that could be done for the cost of a Rolex. | ||
| oysterdipp (oysterdipp) New member Username: oysterdipp Post Number: 3 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.116.215.209 |
So what you're saying is that you can't afford one? | ||
| trustnobey (trustnobey) New member Username: trustnobey Post Number: 20 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 67.49.147.138 |
I have a little heart shaped watch on my key chain that was 19.95 and it is attractive, convenient and even cool. I don't know exactly what to think. I agree with using money to evangelize rather than glitz up my arm. If someone was literally told by God to give such a gift to someone and it was a sacrifice and an act of faith then maybe. I think hating Jesse is even more wrong than the watch. If he is doing something unethical, believe me, heck, believe the Bible; God is going to judge him and He is the Judge. He says some pretty strange things and I have very mixed feelings about how to use money. I do think if you travel constantly that you should have your own jet or purchase a lease share. It is much better for your health physically and mentally. I like Jesse sometimes and other times he makes me a bit queazy. If he is fleecing the flock, it will be a lot worse for him in the end the Bible says. He 'is ' preaching the love of God for His people and the hope of reaching potential and spreading the Gospel. Some respected leaders like him a lot and others don't. I dunno. God do. | ||
| oysterdipp (oysterdipp) New member Username: oysterdipp Post Number: 4 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.116.215.209 |
That's my point. The issue is not whether someone buys a Rolex, owns a jet or wears Brioni suits. What an individual does with his/her own money is their business. We can all be faulted for spending our money on items that we may not have necessarily needed. It's a matter of individualality and personal choice. "Ultimate 1" may feel that the money used to purchase the watch could have been better used to further the gospel. However, maybe he could have purchased a cheaper computer to type that post and gave the difference to the local church. If we all cooked our hamburgers at home instead of going to McDonald's, the money saved in a single day could do wonders for the world. We could go on and on with this, and all would be excellent examples of waste and inefficiency. Make no mistake about it, I'm not taking up for Jesse or any one else for that matter. If we want to discuss the fact that many times their motives may be more about raising/making money rather than for the good of mankind and truly bringing the gospel to the world, then I'm all in. But judging what an individual owns, wears or drives is really just a witch hunt. We are all guilty of not being good stewards in one way or another. If Jesse (or any other minister or pastor) would quit having those things, would that suddenly make him more holy? Would he then be more respected and cease to be a target of ridicule and people would quit stumbling? I completely agree with the scripture "...a man's life consisteth not in the abundance of the things which he possesseth." But that scripture is not saying that someone can't have luxury items, but don't measure your life by those items. And don't live your life coveting those items. Do I think that these guys live an extravagent life style? YES!! Do I think it hiliarious when they get on TV to raise money wearing a $50K watch and a sporting a Louis Vuitton purse (Paula White)? Yes!! But while it may be in poor taste to flaunt these items while asking for money, I'm not going to say how an individual should spend their own money while I'm watching them on my 60" television. Just like Jesse could have purchased a Timex, I could have bought a 13" black and white tv. | ||
| marta (marta) Intermediate Member Username: marta Post Number: 238 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.173.58.215 |
RE: What an individual does with his/her own money is their business. I agree. I'm not really concerned about how these people spend their money. I'm more concerned about their false teachings ... but you know, the more I think about it the more I start to think that we should just follow the advice of Jesus and let these blind guides alone .... because you really have to be kind of blind yourself to keep following them. By the way, if you want my opinion .... I think people that spend their money on things like Rolex watches and Hummers have more money than brains ... but hey, that's just my opinion. | ||
| kingdomfocus (kingdomfocus) New member Username: kingdomfocus Post Number: 1 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.29.80.26 |
Could Someone please do a bible study and please tell me how maNY vESES have to do with money and how many have to do with salvation? Well I have and THE NEW TESTAMENT ACTUALLY CONTAINS 215 VERSES PERTAINING TO FAITH,218 VERSES PERTAINTING TO SALVATION AND 2084 VERSES DEALING WITH THE STEWARDSHIP OF AND ACCOUNTABILITY FOR MONEY AND FINANCES. SIXTEEN OF JESUS THIRTY-EIGHT PARABLES DEAL WITH MONEY. ITS FUNNY TO HEAR SO MUCH NEGITIVE RESPONCE TO MONEY WITH NO BIBLICAL EVIDECE TO BACK THERE CLAMES. KNOW THE TRUTH AND IT WILL SET YOU FREE.} | ||
| trustnobey (trustnobey) New member Username: trustnobey Post Number: 24 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 204.210.113.44 |
Hey Kingdomfocus, Would you spend some money on a spell check program . If we get divisive over this its what the devil likes. Do you think it makes a difference if we don't like or like the lifestyles of the preaching and famous? It might be a good idea to look into what charities they have started or help. That matters. They could be using a lot of money to do good and to accomplish God's will and no one here knows. If people don't want them to have a lot of money, don't send it. Unless the Lord tells you to, and He could possibly do that. Like I said, I dunno. God do. God richly bless and supply all that you need according to His goodness and in Christ Jesus, to everyone. Trust N Obey | ||
| marta (marta) Intermediate Member Username: marta Post Number: 239 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.173.58.215 |
RE: Could Someone please do a bible study and please tell me how maNY vESES have to do with money and how many have to do with salvation? Good luck with that. I can tell you one thing, most of the verses that deal with giving refer to giving money to those in need. In fact, the only times the Bible says anything about "giving to God" it's in reference to giving to those who are in need.... Proverbs 19:17 One who is gracious to a poor man lends to the LORD, And He will repay him for his good deed. Matthew 25:34-40 "Then the King will say to those on His right, `Come, you who are blessed of My Father, inherit the kingdom prepared for you from the foundation of the world. 'For I was hungry, and you gave Me something to eat; I was thirsty, and you gave Me something to drink; I was a stranger, and you invited Me in; naked, and you clothed Me; I was sick, and you visited Me; I was in prison, and you came to Me.' "Then the righteous will answer Him, `Lord, when did we see You hungry, and feed You, or thirsty, and give You something to drink? `And when did we see You a stranger, and invite You in, or naked, and clothe You? `When did we see You sick, or in prison, and come to You?' "The King will answer and say to them, `Truly I say to you, to the extent that you did it to one of these brothers of Mine, even the least of them, you did it to Me.' | ||
| kingdomfocus (kingdomfocus) New member Username: kingdomfocus Post Number: 2 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 209.29.80.136 |
Mat 9:8 And seeing, the crowds marveled, and they glorified God, the One giving such authority to men. Mat 15:36 And taking the seven loaves and the fish, giving thanks, He broke and gave to His disciples, and the disciples to the crowd. Mat 24:38 For as they were in the days before the flood: eating, and drinking, marrying, and giving in marriage, until the day when Noah went into the ark. mark 6:41 And taking the five loaves and the two fish, looking up to Heaven, He blessed, and broke the loaves, and giving out to His disciples, that they might set before them. And He divided the two fish to all. Mar 8:6 And He ordered the crowd to recline on the ground. And taking the seven loaves, giving thanks, He broke and gave to His disciples, that they might serve. And they served the crowd. Luk 22:17 And taking a cup, giving thanks, He said, Take this and divide it among yourselves. Joh 6:33 For the bread of God is He coming down out of Heaven and giving life to the world. As for giving to the poor the bible contains the word giving NT Reference, 49 Times Try Strongs Concordance for conformation I think more study is in order. As for proverb 19:17 What do the preceding Verses Say? And What than is the writer trying to Say are there Reasons why a person is poor? Who What Where When And Why Were the following verses Written. Ex look an Vs 15, Question could laziness cause someone to be poor? And a idle soul shall suffer hunger? Sound like there may be some reasons to a persons lack. There Are many verse that Talk about Work. Gen 2:2 And on the seventh day God completed His work which He had made. And He rested on the seventh day from all His work which He had made. God Worked Should we? Exo 20:9 six days you shall labor and do all your work; Working Sounds to me like a command. Pro 19:14 House and riches are the inheritance of fathers, but a prudent wife is from Jehovah. Pro 19:15 Laziness makes one fall into a deep sleep, and an idle soul shall suffer hunger. Pro 19:16 He who keeps the Commandment keeps his own soul, he who despises His ways shall die. Pro 19:17 He who has pity on the poor lends to Jehovah, and He will repay his dealing to him.(Seem to me we get something in return) Pro 19:18 Chasten your son, for there is hope, and do not set your soul on making him die. Pro 19:19 A man great of fury will bear the penalty, for if you deliver him, then you must do it again. Pro 19:20 Hear advice and receive instruction, that you may be wise in your latter end. Pro 19:21 Many purposes are in a man's heart, but the counsel of Jehovah shall stand. Pro 19:22 The desirableness of a man is his kindness, and a poor man is better than a liar. Pro 19:23 The fear of Jehovah tends to life, and he shall rest satisfied, he shall not be visited with evil. Pro 19:24 A lazy one puts his hand in a dish, and he will not return it to his mouth. Pro 19:25 Strike a scorner and the simple will be shrewd; reprove a discerner, and he will discern knowledge. Pro 19:26 He who assaults his father and chases his mother away, he is a son who causes shame and brings reproach. Pro 19:27 My son, cease to hear the chastening, and you will err from the words of knowledge. Pro 19:28 A worthless witness scorns justice, and the mouth of the wicked devours evil. Pro 19:29 Judgments are prepared for scorners, and blows for the backs of fools. As for Matt 34-40 Was Jesus try to say something more did he want people to allways stay in the same state or could he change the individual life to one to giving rather than receiving. Why is it more better to give than Receive? | ||
| marta (marta) Intermediate Member Username: marta Post Number: 241 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.173.58.215 |
He who despises his neighbor sins, but happy is he who is gracious to the poor. (NAS, Proverbs 14:21) "Feed the hungry! Help those in trouble! Then your light will shine out from the darkness, and the darkness around you shall be as bright as day. And the Lord will guide you continually, and satisfy you with all good things, and keep you healthy too; and you will be like a well-watered garden, like an ever-flowing spring. (TLB, Isaiah 58:10-11) But whoever has the world's goods, and beholds his brother in need and closes his heart against him, how does the love of God abide in him? (NAS, 1 John 3:17) He who gives to the poor will never want, but he who shuts his eyes will have many curses. (NAS, Proverbs 28:27) "Be careful not to do your 'acts of righteousness' before men, to be seen by them. If you do, you will have no reward from your Father in heaven. "So when you give to the needy, do not announce it with trumpets, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and on the streets, to be honored by men. I tell you the truth, they have received their reward in full. (NIV, Matthew 6:1-2) Instruct those who are rich in this present world not to be conceited or to fix their hope on the uncertainty of riches, but on God, who richly supplies us with all things to enjoy. Instruct them to do good, to be rich in good works, to be generous and ready to share, storing up for themselves the treasure of a good foundation for the future, so that they may take hold of that which is life indeed. (NAS, 1 Timothy 6: 17 - 19) | ||
| oysterdipp (oysterdipp) New member Username: oysterdipp Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.116.215.209 |
Thanks for killing the party marta & kingdomfocus. | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) New member Username: david_munson Post Number: 2 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.159.212.32 |
Jessie Duplantis is a great story teller and that is as far as it goes.I heard him say one time,that he was taken up to heaven to see Jesus.While he was visiting he noted that Jesus was depressed about the church not being aware of His (Jesus) soon return.Well,old Jessie just put his arm around Jesus and began to comfort him with the reasurance that he would bring the message to the people. Jesus was depressed?I thought that was strange since the scripture says"2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;.So,why would Jessie need to comfort Jesus?} | ||
| jenzavasky (jenzavasky) New member Username: jenzavasky Post Number: 1 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 68.61.42.218 |
People think that Jesse Duplantis just wants money, but the closer you get to God you see why this money is needed. It is needed so God's word is spread all over the world. And if we didnt send money Jesse would not have been able to travel all over the world like he does. I seen Jesse when he came to my church in April of this year and you can feel the presence of God when he preaches. So that in itself is enough for me to send money so Jesse can spread that all over this world. | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Intermediate Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 186 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.159.204.103 |
Jesse Duplantis. There siis much in the Word of God concerning such"ministers".the first is this, 2 Timothy 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;. The word faith preachers borrow from each other stories and false doctrines that serve to build up their own bankrolls. A mere cursory exsamination by the Word of God would easily reveal them for what they are. Duplantis tells some far fetched stories to say the least. In one such story he claims that he was taken into heaven and found Jesus in such a state of depression that he had to comfort him.What does the scripture say to that? 2 Corinthians 1:3 Blessed be God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, the Father of mercies, and the God of all comfort;. Note ,the God of all comfort. Why would the God of all comfort need anything from Jesse? In another story he claims that lightening blasted a hole in the plane he was traveling on. This is utter nonsense.Just ask any aviation expert and he will tell you that is not possable. How long will those that believe such nonsense go without discernment? What does it take to get you who have been duped to study to show yourself approaved? 2 Timothy 2:15 Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth. The Word of God is our only defense against such false teachers.READ IT! Baruch Habbah Hashem Adonia, Dave} | ||
| saddened (saddened) New member Username: saddened Post Number: 14 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 66.73.175.164 |
Jessie Duplantis is awesome guy who shines Jesus. I love his preaching. He is so funny and he's going to be at Family Harvest Church July 22..7 pm. I'm going!! | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 125 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
You go get you some funny! Yeah!! You go pay you some seed money! Yeah!! Yeah !! Funny Money !! | ||
| tiredofit (tiredofit) New member Username: tiredofit Post Number: 9 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 12.207.221.107 |
I don't even think he is funny. I did at one time. Even went to see him. But then I noticed this.......same stories over, and over, and over, and over ,and over again! And, my gut feeling...he exaggerrates everyhting from his jokes to his teachings to his "going to heaven" story.....and hey, this coming from someone who loved him at one time but watched him over the years. He is an entertainer........belongs in Las Vegas or Branson Mo not in the pulpit.....Bless God! | ||
| nocondemnation (nocondemnation) New member Username: nocondemnation Post Number: 1 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 216.79.244.3 |
For those of you that won't read your Bible or even try to rightly divide it, here is the two scripture references (New Testament)where Jesus himself says we should tithe. Matt 23:23 / Luke 11:42 "these you ought to have done and NOT to leave the OTHER UNDONE." This tag is found in both verses and both times refers to the things mentioned earlier in the verse that the Pharisees were already doing ... which included TITHING ... and also mentioned where they were lacking in the "weightier matters" of "judgement, mercy and faith". Tithing is God's way of providing the needs of the House of God. That was the tabernacle and temple in the Old Testament and the local church in the New Testament. IF you do not accept this then you MUST follow the teaching in ACTS 4:34 where they brought all they had and laid it at the apostles feet and it was distributed to those that had need. But you won't see ANY church doing that today will you? Especially ol'Jesse Duplantis and all the other TBN heretics!!!!!!! Or you could just do what YOU want to do and WISK the scriptures to find a verse or two to kinda back you up. Sorta ease that conscience.<br><br> | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 131 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
Christ Paid all tithing for us on the Cross. Period. Period. We are commanded to give from the Heart, it may be a penny, dollars, time/service. If you give a penny and resent it , then you are not giving from the heart, but if it makes you feel joyful Great. Are you saved by Giving ? NO!!! | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 132 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
No comdemnation, The pharisee were being talked to here (Matt 23:23 ) I suggest you define who the Pharisee's were. Again Christ said if you live one part of the Law you are bound by all of the Law. Show us a verse where Jesus or any of the Apostles tithed to the Law. Giving should be Christian nature, but by the power of the Holy Spirit, Giving can bear fruit in many ways. | ||
| nocondemnation (nocondemnation) New member Username: nocondemnation Post Number: 2 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 209.215.39.37 |
Steelsword, you are correct in the facts that Jesus was talking to a Pharisee AND that our giving does not affect our salvation. But the fact of scripture is there, he told the Pharisee he was missing "judgement, mercy and faith" which of course where not OF THE LAW, yet he told him he shouldn't leave the other UNDONE. You won't go to hell if you don't tithe. And, the giving of the tithe in the wrong attitude reaps you no benefit. But neither of those statements keeps us from being held accountable for not doing what God tells us to do. It falls under the topic of stewardship. That is managing the things that God gives us. After all, He owns everything. And the Bible is clear that a steward is REQUIRED to be found faithful. | ||
| bear (bear) Member Username: bear Post Number: 55 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 4.161.238.228 |
nocondemnation, That is the best example I have heard in a while. I want my money blessed, so I tithe. I tithe as an act of worship. If we do not give, we are not giving God 100% of us! | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Advanced Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 646 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 63.235.32.105 |
Jesse Duplantis, Qualifications, used car salesman. Present occupation, Snakeoil salesman,money changer.Liar. } | ||
| niko22 (niko22) New member Username: niko22 Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 212.165.170.123 |
NA MI OOOOOOOOOOOOOO ALL BLACK AXE MEN I HALL UNA FOR THE BAD THINGS WAY UNA DEY DO NA GOD GO PURNISH UNA MAMA AND UNA PAPA UNA DEY USELESS MORE THAN ANYTHING FOR DUSTBIN. UNA BE BIGEST FOOL WAY I NEVER SEE FURK ALL UNA AYES MEN GOD OF OGODO GO KILL UNA ALL AND DARMAGE UNA MOTHER FOR LIFE.IDIOT AYE NA ME SON OF OGODO DEY TALK NOTHING DEY HEPPEN.OK TU FACE TALK AM OOOOOOOOOOOOO. FURK AYE MENS.KENY FROM LASWHITE   NA TO THIEF PHONE UNA SA BI AYES NA THIEF FULL FOR UNA GROUP.MOTOR GO KILL ALL OF UNA.BYE | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Advanced Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 651 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 65.136.112.238 |
Um, yeah sure. What's that supposed to be.Tongues? Sorry but you can't type in tongues. Nice try though. Besides that your threats mean nothing. Dave} | ||
| oysterdipp (oysterdipp) New member Username: oysterdipp Post Number: 6 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.191.94.172 |
NIKO22 That was stupid I'm dumber now for having read that crap | ||
| cybermom (cybermom) Intermediate Member Username: cybermom Post Number: 219 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 67.186.102.112 |
niko22 That's a good way to get kicked off this forum. They've tightened up quite a bit. So my advice to you is GROW UP. Cybermom | ||
| promethius7 (promethius7) New member Username: promethius7 Post Number: 1 Registered: 7-2005 Posted From: 172.201.97.245 |
The first time that I heard Jesse I thought that he was a great Christian and powerfull in the Lord. Then I actuactly listened to what he was preaching and realised that his power (and teachings) does not come from the Lord. If it does not come from the Lord it must come from some place else. I don't think that it needs too much thought to realise where his teachings do come from. Mr. DuPlantis strikes me as yet another "get rich quick" merchant who has seen a market and moved into it. All I would say to anyone is examine his teaching well and compair it with the true word of the Lord. Peace and love to all. | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Advanced Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 680 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 65.143.27.191 |
promethius7, all I would say to you is, Good advice. Oh yeah and the Lord jesus bless you. Dave} | ||
| drumladd (drumladd) Junior Member Username: drumladd Post Number: 28 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 198.51.179.254 |
Giving should not be measured in percents or amounts. Jesus pointed out the widow's mite because it MEANT something to her; it was a true sacrifice. The rich that were proudly "showing off" their tithe were not pleasing because 1) they did it for show and 2) it didn't MEAN anything to them, it wasn't a sacrifice. I believe tithing is still taught because pastors and churches are too afraid to teach NT giving because they think people won't give enough if they are told to give out of the heart and to give a true sacrifice of their increase. Further, we aren't transparent enough in the church to share needs, which is what the NT church did (gave as each had need). I think a church should be brave enough to present the budget to the congregation, teach about Spirit-led and heart-led giving, and let people give what they feel led to give. People should give because they want to, not because someone is going to quote Malachi and tell them that they won't have food on the table because God only "opens the windows of heaven" if you tithe to the church. Just for discussion, what if you attend a church that is financially well off (like I have-- running 1 million in the black year-to-year) and you have a missionary that's struggling to feed his family. But my "tithe" is all I can afford to give. Am I wrong if I give my tithe to this missionary so he can care for his family, or to the church so the fellowship hall can be renovated or the parking lot repaved? Just food for thought. | ||
| david_munson (david_munson) Advanced Member Username: david_munson Post Number: 724 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 65.143.84.194 |
Personaly,I'd give it to the struggling missionary.He'd be more blessed by it. dave} | ||
| steelsword (steelsword) Intermediate Member Username: steelsword Post Number: 175 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 207.192.2.34 |
I agree with Dave . Again i tell this story, most of my Family are Mormons. I left the church over 3 years ago and became a Christian. My sister who is still mormon had a friend in need and ask the branch president if she could give her tithe money to help this Girl in need. She was refused & told that the church would decide if this girl would be helped. It made my skin crawl when my sister told me this. | ||
| get_a_life (get_a_life) New member Username: get_a_life Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 24.160.0.93 |
Y'all need to get a life, and a new hobbie! The bible says in Luke 6:37 Judge not, and ye shall not be judged: condemn not, and ye shall not be condemned: forgive, and ye shall be forgiven Y'all should be praying for all of the people that were affected by the hurricane, because when you boil it down we are all the same. people, rich or poor, black or white, religous or not. | ||
| bear (bear) Intermediate Member Username: bear Post Number: 205 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.176.6.74 |
The tithe goes to the church, period, not to a missionary. Read your bible. | ||
| bear (bear) Intermediate Member Username: bear Post Number: 209 Registered: 4-2005 Posted From: 24.176.6.74 |
Titus, Are saying that you only believe scriptures that were written in Greek? I am NOT going to get into a debate about that on this thread. However, Read the LXX and you will find it wriiten in Greek | ||
| rockrz (rockrz) New member Username: rockrz Post Number: 12 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 70.249.143.60 |
Did you here that Anonymous (68.72.166.189) is GAY! We don't know his name but WE know that he's queer from ear to ear! | ||
| gsrh (gsrh) Member Username: gsrh Post Number: 78 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 69.211.51.195 |
How do you know that he is gay? Be very careful making statements like that. We live in a very litigious society. | ||
| ozark1 (ozark1) New member Username: ozark1 Post Number: 1 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 8.8.196.143 |
Saw Jesse on TBN last night taking credit for the fact that Rita lost a lot of strength before it hit. This guy is unbelieveable. His arrogance knows no bounds. | ||
| oysterdipp (oysterdipp) New member Username: oysterdipp Post Number: 7 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.116.213.7 |
That is unbelievable. I guess he didn't have enough faith for the storm to break up altogether and not flood the entire central and southwestern coast of Louisiana. | ||
| balcerzak2003 (balcerzak2003) New member Username: balcerzak2003 Post Number: 1 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 65.167.23.62 |
just a polite but very serious thought "do not judge lest you be judged" if you don't want to give then don't, but do you really think any of you should be judging anyone, another thought "you who haven't sinned can throw the first stone." God bless you all. Let's let God do His job and we do ours "Love your neighbor" doesn't mean just the person who lives next to you. How about spreading the Good News, instead of letting the devil get you sidetracked, because I am sure the devil gets a kick about a lot of the messages posted here. | ||
| oysterdipp (oysterdipp) New member Username: oysterdipp Post Number: 8 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.116.210.88 |
This is not a matter of judging, but stating a fact and asking a question. If you are involved in a religion where you are not allowed to question things, then you may want to take a second look at your religion. | ||
| rachelengland (rachelengland) Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 383 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 69.128.222.206 |
do not judge least you be judged-that's an easy one to pull up when you have something to hide | ||
| padawan3000 (padawan3000) New member Username: padawan3000 Post Number: 1 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 71.213.141.150 |
i'm not going to judge Jesse Duplantis but i can judge his message. I listened to him preach about how he doesnt struggle with sin and how we deserve to be healthy and prosporous and how God says money solves everything. all of these go specifically against scripture. JESUS struggled with sin, he just didnt fall to it. How does Jesse Duplantis not struggle with it. JESUS was poor and had a miserable struggle in life. how does Jesse Duplantis come off saying those are the signs of people that dont believe enough? We dont deserve anything but death. Thats scripture. What Jesse teaches is far from scripture. | ||
| jtho New member Username: jtho Post Number: 1 Registered: 11-2007 Posted From: 24.226.31.164 |
I have listened to Jesse preach, and have watched countless people be ministered to by his preaching. The bible says, you shall know them by their fruit. I would be careful that you do not judge this mans ministry, it is fully based on scripture...but you will have to know the scriptures in order to be able to know that. I think you are misquoting Jesse if you were to say that he said he doesn't struggle with sin, we all do... he probably meant it gets easier, as time goes on to deal with it. To address the money issue. I am guessing you have never done a study on finance in the bible. Money is the 2nd most thing Jesus talked about in the bible. Your money is important to Jesus, and if you are holding on to it, you will lose it. If you don't tithe there are curses that will come on your life (and your family), that YOU are causing to be there. To be completely honest, any preacher that doesn't talk about money, is cheating you of a KEY principle in the Kingdom of God. Just be sure you are quoting Jesse correctly before you do. thanks. | ||
| mcmstaff78 Senior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 1863 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 167.193.134.61 |
JTHO, Duplantis is no different from another other WoF preacher who preaches the upside down, bizarro and materialistic "gospel" of the "prosperity". You should search through FACTNet and read the discussions on the "Faith message" and get educated on what it is really about, preachers "prospering" and their "flocks" being "fleeced". | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 310 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.20 |
"JESUS was poor"?... Someone take a stab at what the gold, frankincense and myrhh were worth. I would be curious as to people's thoughts on this. | ||
| marta Advanced Member Username: marta Post Number: 996 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.194.175.25 |
Leviticus 12:6 When the days of her purification for a son or daughter are over, she is to bring to the priest at the entrance to the Tent of Meeting a year-old lamb for a burnt offering and a young pigeon or a dove for a sin offering. Leviticus 12:8 If she cannot afford a lamb, she is to bring two doves or two young pigeons, one for a burnt offering and the other for a sin offering. In this way the priest will make atonement for her, and she will be clean. Someone want to take a stab at what offering Jesus' parents offered? (Luke 2:24) | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 312 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.20 |
An animal. What about my question? | ||
| mcmstaff78 Senior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 1864 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 167.193.134.61 |
Good catch, Marta - they could only afford the turtle doves and not the lamb. Gracie, no where are we told how much gold, frankincense and myrhh were given. The gold undoubtedly went toward financing the flight into Egypt and, possibly, their stay there. Frankincense is an incense used in the liturgical worship and at prayer and so was probably either burned or donated (though who can say). The myrhh, which was used to anoint someone for burial, may very well have been saved and what the women were bringing to anoint Him on Pascha morning when they found Him raised. In any event, Christ could not be termed "rich" in the worldly sense of the word. He Himself declared "The foxes have holes, and the birds of the air have nests; but the Son of man hath not where to lay his head." This world is not to be our home and we are not to seek ever worldly gain, but WoF has turned the scriptures upside down and created a worldly "gospel". "For God giveth to a man that is good in his sight, wisdom, and knowledge, and joy: but to the sinner he giveth travail, to gather and to heap up, that he may give to him that is good before God. This also is vanity and vexation of spirit." (Eccl. 2:26) | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 4297 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
You're a smart guy, Gracie. To say that Jesus was rich because wise men brought gifts is a logical stretch, to say the least. The same can be said of the fact that Jesus must have been rich because Judas was the treasurer of the bunch. Those conclusions are simplistic, but commonly used by the WoF teachers. I could just as easy say that Jesus had an ordinary Jewish upbringing; he was a carpenter by trade. Point is, what does it matter? It matters in the minds of a bunch of shakedown preachers who have to justify the Rolexes and shiny suits. You sound like a professional who travels...in your business dealings, wouldn't you at least throw up a red flag at a businessman who approaches you in a pimp suit and gold necklaces, slicked back hair... etc. Again, you would use some basic logic. Why do so many of these guys have to look like this? The whole TBN thing is just an embarrassment! Paula White was hollering "GO TO THAT PHONE--NOW!!!!" over and over the other night. I wanted to throw the phone at the tv. She and her "ex" are people of terrible character, yet the trinket crowd still thinks she is great. I have no problem with wealthy Christians. I do have a problem when folks have to show it off. It is a thing called 'class' or lack thereof. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 4298 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
You're a smart guy, Gracie. To say that Jesus was rich because wise men brought gifts is a logical stretch, to say the least. The same can be said of the fact that Jesus must have been rich because Judas was the treasurer of the bunch. Those conclusions are simplistic, but commonly used by the WoF teachers. I could just as easily say that Jesus had an ordinary Jewish upbringing; he was a carpenter by trade. Point is, what does it matter? It only matters in the minds of a bunch of shakedown preachers who have to justify the Rolexes and shiny suits. You sound like a professional who travels...in your business dealings, wouldn't you at least throw up a red flag at a businessman who approaches you in a pimp suit and gold necklaces, slicked back hair... etc. Again, you would use some basic logic. Why do so many of these guys have to look like this? The whole TBN thing is just an embarrassment! Paula White was hollering "GO TO THAT PHONE--NOW!!!!" over and over the other night. I wanted to throw the phone at the tv. She and her "ex" are people of terrible character, yet the trinket crowd still thinks she is great. I have no problem with wealthy Christians. I do have a problem when folks have to show it off. It is a thing called 'class' or lack thereof. | ||
| mcmstaff78 Senior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 1865 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 167.193.134.61 |
You know, I still can't figure out how to double dip. Whenever I hit the post message button twice, it tells me I've already posted that message. How djew du dat, Mattie? | ||
| marta Advanced Member Username: marta Post Number: 997 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.194.175.25 |
An animal. What about my question? Scripture says exactly what was offered. I even gave the reference. But you either didn't think it was worth looking up or you didn't want to say. Now your question about the gold, frankincense and myrhh there is no clear answer ... as mcmstaff78 said, scripture doesn't say how much was given, so there is no way to determine the value. So, you avoid a question that has a clear answer given in scripture in favor of a question that has no clear answer .... why? Was Jesus rich? Was Jesus poor? Well, I am convinced that God provided for Jesus' needs. Amen? | ||
| marta Advanced Member Username: marta Post Number: 998 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.194.175.25 |
saygoodnightgracie, What's you opinion about the following verse? James 3:1 Dear brothers and sisters, not many of you should become teachers in the church, for we who teach will be judged by God with greater strictness. | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 313 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.20 |
"You're a smart guy, Gracie" What in the world makes you say THAT?!!! Also how good is your aim and what kind of TV do you have? These are key issues to consider before pulling a Russell Crowe... Mattie "To say that Jesus was rich"... I didn't say that, you projected onto me that because I am WOF that is what I would say. I was more curious as to what YOU would say, that's all. Marta - I didn't read it because you answered a question with a question, I apologize. And really, I am not saying Jesus was rich - I was actually asking if anyone cared to elaborate on what the value was of what He was given. | ||
| marta Advanced Member Username: marta Post Number: 999 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 71.194.175.25 |
And really, I am not saying Jesus was rich - I was actually asking if anyone cared to elaborate on what the value was of what He was given. Sorry if we misjudged you, but I made the same assumption ... not because you are wof but because that is the usual reason for bringing it up. Why else ponder the value of the gifts? | ||
| mcmstaff78 Senior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 1866 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.99.130.74 |
Isn't it just a tad disingenuous to write that we "projected onto" you when you write the following? The obvious inference is that you don't accept that Jesus was poor and that the gold, frankincense and myrrh were valuable gifts that would have made the Holy Family "prosperous". If you don't wish people to infer such, you should be less cryptic. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 4299 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
Also how good is your aim and what kind of TV do you have? These are key issues to consider before pulling a Russell Crowe... Mattie "To say that Jesus was rich"... I didn't say that, you projected onto me that because I am WOF that is what I would say. I was more curious as to what YOU would say, that's all. I would at least make sure it was one of the 13 inch sets we have, and unlike Russell Crowe, I don't think I would throw a phone at Paula live and in person.  As far as the assumption, I guess like 78, I saw the inference. Sorry if I misread. But my thoughts remain. I find that what a lot of people buy as revelation is really just a stretch in credibility, but because no one cares to question people like Copeland, etc, they just nod and say "What a great revelation!--Jesus had gold! He had a treasurer! He must have been rich!" I was given a gold ring that belonged to my Grandfather. It is priceless to me. But it is worth about 100 bucks. We have a treasurer in one of my professional organizations. Couldn't pay my mortgage with the balance in the account. I still say that the 'revelation' that Jesus was rich is just something to justify a lavish lifestyle. The odd thing about the prosperity doctrine of Copeland, Duplantis, ect is that for the most part, THEY are the ones with jets, vacation homes, etc. Why? Is it because God blesses them, or they have a ready made income of offerings that their followers don't? Simple economics. And greed. To let you know, my thoughts on WoF don't translate into thinking you or others are 'going to hell' for being in that camp. I have several friends who I consider Christian brothers in WoF, I simply disagree with them. We still share what we can in common. It is more the leaders I have a beef with. | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 314 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.20 |
Yeah, no inference - I have obviously heard the many estimates, some inflated, over the course of my life... I simply had never heard "poor" - so that got me wondering what got taught outside my admittedly, little world of doctrine. As you can imagine, I lost interest in the "opposing" view pretty quickly. She's a small and moving target. "Sharing what you in have in common" is best, stop being so reasonable - you're going to give Factnet a bad name! How is it so obvious that I've traveled? Or are you the world's greatest "cold reader"? | ||
| mcmstaff78 Senior Member Username: mcmstaff78 Post Number: 1867 Registered: 7-2006 Posted From: 24.99.130.74 |
Gracie, My apologies as well if I read into your post what was not intended. The meaning of short messages is often difficult to discern. I think Marta's pointing out that Joseph and Mary making the offering allowed for the poor is sufficient to indicate the financial state of the family. Remember, there really wasn't anything like our "middle class" in those days. You were either really well off or pretty much scrapping by day to day. Sure, there were degrees within each segment, and Jesus wasn't a beggar (no man who could work would be), but there is no way He could be described as materially wealthy. | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 315 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.20 |
Yes, one thing I know about Marta is that she knows the Word - what she posted was very insightful. | ||
| matt_hatter Senior Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 4300 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
How is it so obvious that I've traveled? Or are you the world's greatest "cold reader"? I still operate in the word of knowledge from time to time. Actually, I think you mentioned in casual conversation one time that your business brought you through my town at times...we were talking about a hot wings resturanat...not Hooters! ha! | ||
| saygoodnightgracie Intermediate Member Username: saygoodnightgracie Post Number: 316 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 72.64.222.20 |
good memory... and a little WOK and WOW can go a long way. | ||
| discerner New member Username: discerner Post Number: 23 Registered: 8-2007 Posted From: 99.236.178.156 |
First Creflo resigned from ORU and Benny Hinn lost his voting status,...we now find out Jesse D. is part of this mess. Judgement at the house of God continues. http://www.kten.com/Global/story.asp?S=7517730 | ||
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