| Author | Message | ||
     jodymcgrody New member Username: jodymcgrody Post Number: 4 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 69.19.14.39 |
David Derush your a great guy and a wonderful servant to the communities hierarchy. It would be nice if there was an honest assessment of life in the community rather than simply throwing more scripture at those who've lived there. While living in the community I've heard a lot of scripture from people who would later be sent away, after their secret lives came to light. It isn't hard to toss out bible quotes and make sophisticated arguments, but they don't change the reality of life in the community. And that reality was not the same as what we preached to outsiders. Honesty carries the weight of gold, but quoting scripture without substance to back it up is deceitful, isn't it? Isn't that what Christianity does to the innocent when they call them to the alter with promises of a new life? And we've seen how that works out haven't we! Here is a scripture: "On the other hand the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, trustfulness, gentleness and self control;..." One honest representation of a community, living and functioning in the Spirit of God, exhibiting the fruit (note that this is singular, you can't pick and choose which ones your showing, they are either all there or your not living it, period) would replace every freepaper ever printed by the community, and carry an impact that could not be measured. Instead your defending a system, a program, an automaton that squashes the very life trying to spring up in its midst. A system that then tries to fabricate an imitation of that life, to pretend it really is that life even though it can't bear the Fruit (singular) of the Spirit. Life, real life is spontaneous. It produces joy simply as a result of its existence, and it is universally recognizable by all. People are drawn to it when they see it, when they hear it. But darkness is a control freak, and abhors everything and anything spontaneous. If darkness doesn't have control it starts freaking out, literally. It sets up the rules and enforces then, making them tighter and tighter, always constricting. Darkness has the letter of the law always ready, always waiting around the corner to enforce the RULES  . To instill FEAR in order to maintain CONTROL. Darkness loves fear the way a fish loves water. It can imitate some of the fruit (singular) of the Spirit all the time, but not all of it at the same time. Why not? Where there's Life there's laughter. Where there's Darkness there's fear. Stop defending darkness and start defending life. JRL (Message edited by jodymcgrody on September 10, 2007) | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 264 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
"It is in our lives and not our words that our religion must be read." -Thomas Jefferson "Once a government is committed to the principle of silencing the voice of opposition, it has only one way to go, and that is down the path of increasingly repressive measures, until it becomes a source of terror to all its citizens and creates a country where everyone lives in fear." -Harry S. Truman "In a democracy, dissent is an act of faith." -J. William Fulbright "You do not become a "dissident" just because you decide one day to take up this most unusual career. You are thrown into it by your personal sense of responsibility, combined with a complex set of external circumstances. You are cast out of the existing structure and placed in a position of conflict with them. It begins as an attempt to do your work well, and ends with being branded an enemy of (the TT)society." -Vaclav Havel | ||
| anon_e_mus Junior Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 31 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 71.188.44.15 |
Jody, My oh my. What a teaching. So much truth. | ||
| chezikah Member Username: chezikah Post Number: 58 Registered: 12-2004 Posted From: 24.198.16.28 |
Take a hike anonymous! Jody stated the obvious very well! I should know I am a former member of TT cult from HELL! | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1623 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Chezikah!!!! Annie was not being facetious! She was just stating the facts and a possible compliment... YOU need to lighten up! And stop waving your "victim flag" like a banner! We all know your story so give it a rest! How long has it been? Over 10 years now? You know your http://www.twelvetribes-ex.org/ web site reeks of bitterness and over-sensualization and is blown way out of proportion with emotions and due to this has lost all credibility IMHO... | ||
| john_s Intermediate Member Username: john_s Post Number: 143 Registered: 3-2005 Posted From: 64.24.212.188 |
--- YOU need to lighten up! And stop waving your "victim flag" like a banner! We all know your story so give it a rest! How long has it been? Over 10 years now? You know your web site reeks of bitterness and over-sensualization and is blown way out of proportion with emotions and due to this has lost all credibility IMHO... --- Were you looking into a mirror when you wrote this, David? | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1626 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Yes...a mirror of the past if you will... I suppose some take longer to heal and forgive... and I suppose some never do... some times I have no tact... pardon me...please... | ||
| randyspenser Intermediate Member Username: randyspenser Post Number: 305 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.49.198.243 |
When Christ healed people He would often tell them to take up their bed and walk. In doing this, He was saying for them to not lie there and continue in their illness, move on with their lives. Emotional healing requires the same thing. Forgive those you feel hurt you. Forgive yourself for any wrong you may have had in the incidents including your willingness to be involved. Do NOT take your bed or any part of your bed with you for it will be a constant reminder of the past instead of allowing you to concentrate on the future. Then have the Faith to accept your healing. WHo is at fault for hurt in sometimes not important, for it is the Enemy that is really behind the hurt anyway. The most Holy endeavors can be hindered or destroyed by the Enemy if we take our eyes off the sourse of our Strenghth and we fail to realize the battle is not ours, it is His. The battle is a fight in the Spiritual world. "We wrestle not against flesh and Blood, but against principalities and powers". I have never been a member of a community, but I have personally had to do a lot of healing for things that happened in my life and from some teachings from the past. Remember, the enemy will use guilt as a major weapon to defeat us.He will continually remind us of our past and rely on guilt. He will use hurts of our past to make us concentrate on those unpleasant things and not be able to move on with what the Father has for our future. If the "Christian churches" have hurt you in your view, have you forgiven them? If you feel others on this site have hurt you, have you forgiven them? We cannot only forgive some and not all. We cannot drag our sick bed with us. If we are a separated people we must sepaprate ourselves from the sins or hurts of the past and be fully healed. "I suppose some take longer to heal and forgive... and I suppose some never do... " Nabash-- I will propose that it takes some longer to accept their healing. He offers us healing immediately for He wants us to be well. Remember the Master telling the man "Your Faith has made you whole"? He didn't tell him to take a long time to be healed, but to accept the healing immediately and be made whole. When the enemy uses guilt and hurt to remind us of our past, Remind him of his future. | ||
| anon_e_mus Advanced Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 745 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 71.168.240.217 |
i meant it as a compliment  (Message edited by anon_e_mus on September 25, 2007) | ||
| jodymcgrody Junior Member Username: jodymcgrody Post Number: 35 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 71.162.78.19 |
David Derush, you should really respond to my post. It would only be polite. JRL | ||
| jodymcgrody Junior Member Username: jodymcgrody Post Number: 36 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 71.162.78.19 |
I'm still waiting for that answer David. You can always email me if you want. My email is the same as when we first began discussing the community back on Ully's Yahoo group. I'll probably be out of touch for a few days starting tomorrow as I'll be on the road. JRL | ||
| ully_exderushah Member Username: ully_exderushah Post Number: 54 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 67.159.44.55 |
My email is the same as when we first began discussing the community back on Ully's Yahoo group. ???? Jody, Are you maybe talking about David Derush's own Yahoo group? David Derush has NEVER been on any of the Yahoo groups that I moderate! At least not that I know. Jody, if you are not confusing something then I would like to ask you which of the groups you are talking about and which Yahoo ID / screen name David Derush is / was using? Thank you! Ully | ||
| jodymcgrody Junior Member Username: jodymcgrody Post Number: 37 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 69.19.14.37 |
Hi Ully, A blast from the past...http://www.factnet.org/discus/messages/3/205.html?1089554500 Back to the very first thread on the TT's on Factnet! We were carrying on a dialogue on the Yahoo discussion group back in the day but David just stopped responding. So I moved it to this board hoping he would continue with an honest and open discussion. He never did respond to it. Here's the beginning of the post to make it easier to find in the archive, plus a snippet from the discussion... Posted on Wednesday, March 26, 2003 - 8:49 pm: Hi David, the Open Forum atmosphere is very important for establishing what is true and what is only rhetoric. I was hoping we could continue our discussion on this forum. Thanks, Joseph. --- In Twelve_Tribes_Discussion@yahoogroups.com, "Joseph" wrote: > Hi David, now that posts are back to normal I felt it best to > continue on in an open forum atmosphere. J. > > --- Joseph wrote: > > Hi David, I was wondering if you could answer what > > specific things > > you disagreed with in my post. ... (A snippet) > You know all this, Joseph. You lost heart, during > a time of tremendous testing, and left; there is > nothing shocking about that. It could happen to me, > or to anybody. Soldiers get wounded and fall in the > battle sometimes. It happens. > But when you fall, you should get back up, Joseph; > go to your brothers, tell them you were wounded and > overcome; but that you want back in the fight. > > [I am in the fight.] > > You > are needed, Joseph; God needs you; your brothers need > you, and miss you greatly. > > [Tell them to send money.] > > ...  Reading that again made me laugh, especially because of how broke I really was at that time. Joseph | ||
| jodymcgrody Junior Member Username: jodymcgrody Post Number: 38 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 66.82.9.108 |
And still I wait. Since I can honestly assume that no dialogue will occur I'll ask another question to point out the obvious: Why does the TwelveTribes put on "Open Forums" but doesn't engage in what is by any definition a very much "open forum" here or anywhere else on the internet? My answer to this question is that they simply do not have the truth as they claim. What they have is rhetoric that cannot stand up under scrutiny. Truth stands on it's own. If something is true, it's true. You can argue about gravity all you want, but it's still gravity. Throw a rock in the air, it falls to the ground and the arguments over. No amount of rhetoric or mental gymnastics is going to change it. Dodging the issue and throwing out "propaganda posts" only reinforces how dead the TwelveTribes institution is. I say, light a fire and burn off all the dead vegetation so that real life can grow. Stop being afraid of finding out that you could be wrong. Stop defending something that shouldn't need defending. Just trust God and see where He takes you. Let go of the reins, have some real faith, and enjoy the ride. Suffering doesn't come from your brothers. Jesus wasn't crucified by his followers. Stop pretending that all the suffering inside the community is somehow God's will and face reality. Something is wrong. JRL [Ully, the short answer to your question is: no I'm not confusing anything; David Derush used to post on your TT Discussion yahoo group and posted as "David Derush". I don't know what happened to your archives, but the discussion I linked to in my previous post was copy and pasted directly from the group. http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=3462#POST3462] (Message edited by jodymcgrody on October 10, 2007) | ||
| jodymcgrody Junior Member Username: jodymcgrody Post Number: 40 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 66.82.9.108 |
Here is an active direct link to the post... http://www.factnet.org/cgi-bin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=3&post=3462#POST3462 | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1720 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
So DD posted on the TT discussion group? Not to be confused with the ex-TT discussion group? Did he post as David Alexander? Yeah it sucks that after all the changing of the discussion groups THERE ARE NO ARCHIVES!!!! The library was burned down!!! I just found the old TT discussion group! Its still up and collecting spam! That group needs too be shut down! http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=twelve+tribes&sc=0&sg=0&ss=1 You cant even find the new TT discussion group if you google it! If you go to yahoo groups and type in twelve tribes, IT"S ON THE THIRD PAGE BACK!!! No one is going to go that deep looking for it! http://groups.yahoo.com/search?query=twelve+tribes&sc=-1&sg=20&ss=1 The old group needs to be shut down completely and the new ones name changed so it comes up on the first page of yahoo groups under twelve tribes! No wonder the board has all but died! New people looking for info on the Tribes need to be able to find it!!! ULLY AND ANNIE!!! HELP US!!!! | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1721 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 24.183.98.4 |
Jody, I suppose the TT elders have deemed there is nothing but unclean birds here and they dont want to "cast their pearls amongst swine" and that we dont deserve the truth! Also that there are educated folks here that can see past there smoke and mirrors and call them on their BS! People who have actually seen their ugly underbelly and lived their perversion of the life of Acts 2&4... You and I and a few other folks here should go "On Tour" and hit all their open forums in their cafes and follow the Peacemaker around like they followed the Grateful Dead!  Wouldnt that spike Genes blood pressure! I can see him now! Spouting something like "All those who lie and those who listen to lies are worthy of the lake of fire" The thing is, we would be the only ones NOT telling lies! But when they tell lies they dont consider it lying!!! Read this from one of their lying teachings! "We are obligated by our conscience and the Holy Spirit to always tell the truth. What constitutes the truth? Not telling the truth (in certain cases) is not a lie then. Truth is truth. Not telling the truth to someone who doesn't deserve the truth isn't lying. Telling the truth in certain circumstances may do serious harm to an innocent party. If they knew the truth it wouldn't always be justice by what they would do with their evil intentions. We are obligated by our conscience and the Holy Spirit to always tell the truth, but we are not obligated to tell the truth to those who have forfeited their right to know by their obvious evil intentions." So do we have "evil intentions"? I dont think so. Actually I think our intentions are good and we want to educate the public of the dangers of joining this group even if the damage caused and produced by the TT is unintentional and that they think they are doing the will of God. The leaders of the Crusades, Calvin when he burnt Servetus, and the 9/11 terrorists all thought the same thing... | ||
| anniealice New member Username: anniealice Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 24.91.30.103 |
Regarding the Yahoo Groups, Initially we had just the ExTT yahoo group which was started by Ully and called TT Info. I volunteered as a moderator for her when she asked for someone to fill the position. After much group discussion a poll was taken and the TT Info membership voted to change the name of the group to Ex Twelve Tribes. At that time I created TT Discussion and brought Ully on as a moderator. This past spring, with ExTT having been in existence for many years, we took a long, objective look at the group dynamics and since it had become a place where very personal discussion was happening, for the safety of the group members, both past and future, and to foster continuity of the personal discussion which the members there lean towards, we brain stormed ideas to make the group safer for it’s members. Eventually we decided to really personalize the application process, allowing ONLY exTTers onto that particular group, then we wiped the slate clean and had everyone apply/re-apply according to the new process. The moderators are me, Ully and Jack: The link to which can be found here: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Ex_Twelve_Tribes Sensitive to the needs of family and friends of TTers and ExTTers, we changed the name of Twelve Tribes Discussion to Twelve Tribes Exes and Family Members and for the same safety reasons, we changed the application process to the one similar to ExTT. The moderators are me, Ully, Jack and David P: Here is the link: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Twelve_Tribes_Exes_and_FamilyMembers At that time, I created a brand new TT Discussion group which is open to everyone and has NO application process. The moderators are me, Ully and David P: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TwelveTribesDiscussion OUR old discussion groups name was simply changed, the group itself is the same. So as you can see, there is NO fourth group floating around, unused by us. David, you may have been referring to the often neglected group http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TwelveTribes which is owned by someone with the now defunct screen name little_ol_me2001at yahoo. I do not know who that was/is. Also, a name change wouldn’t help the TTD group because they are not listed alphabetically. Sincerely, Annie (Just to reiterate, I am not anon e mus/anonymous) (Message edited by anniealice on October 20, 2007) | ||
| anniealice New member Username: anniealice Post Number: 14 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 24.91.30.103 |
I also want to confirm what Jody is saying about David D. Yes, David was a member of the TT Discussion group as himself. I believe it was at the time that David D. was in his extended transition from home to TT. Shortly after joining the TT, he left TTD as David D but stayed on under an alias until we overhauled the group to be solely for Exes & Family Members. I haven't asked him if he is a member of the new TTD. He does have two yahoo groups of his own as well, http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheTwelveTribesarerealcommunities/ and http://groups.yahoo.com/group/TheTwelveTribesCommonwealthofIsraelCommunities/ | ||
| ully_exderushah Member Username: ully_exderushah Post Number: 55 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.98.168.78 |
???? Jody, Are you maybe talking about David Derush's own Yahoo group? David Derush has NEVER been on any of the Yahoo groups that I moderate! At least not that I know. [...] Ully Ugh, sorry about not responding again!!! I meant to confirm what Annie and Jody had written but somehow never got to it!!! I had just moved to another city and started a new job, so for a few days I thought "Oh, I still need to apologize for the wrong information" but then somehow I forgot all about it. Sorry! So, for the record: I was completely wrong, and I am really, really sorry for spreading wrong information! I apologize that my response gave a wrong impression! Jody and Annie are right. Ugh, I don't know how I could forget but when I posted my question to Jody I had absolutely no recollection that David Derush was indeed a proper member of the TT_Discussion group for a while, wayyy back at the beginning! So yes, he posted as David Derush, not making any secret about who he was or his affiliation with the Twelve Tribes. (Unlike the ExTT group, back then the TTD group was open for ANYONE who wanted to discuss the TT, no matter whether they were current members, ex-members, relatives of members, or people who were considering joining.) Eventually David Derush unsubscribed from the TTD group and concentrated on FactNet. After that, no other TT member openly applied for membership with the TTD group (or the ExTT group). Oh, by the way, it is very nice to see Pilgrum post here! I appreciate very much that he actually tries to answer the questions that people have for the TT, and how he simply shares his point of view on the subjects that arise rather than just copying and pasting the same teaching into every thread. I hope we will all manage to keep these discussions civilized! Now, about the current status of the groups: The ExTT group is still up and running. The TTD group and the group for friends and relatives of TT members have been shut down completely. In its place we have created the "BeforeTT" group. It is for those with forethought who themselves, their family or their friends are considering joining the Twelve Tribes and would like to speak specifically with actual ex-Twelve Tribes members first. Hopefully I will soon have time again to participate some more in all these discussions! Ully |
