| Author |
Message |
    
mattlalande
New member
Username: mattlalande
Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 66.207.107.114
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 4:17 pm: | 
|
Thank you for all of those who emailed me with your stories.
Now I would kindly ask you to visit:
www.haber-lawyer.com
There is a Grenville College Information link that i would ask everyone interested to visit and complete. |
westcedar1
New member
Username: westcedar1
Post Number: 20
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 195.189.143.46
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 4:59 pm: |
|
what's your take 30%? or is the bro bono |
westcedar1
New member
Username: westcedar1
Post Number: 21
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 195.189.143.46
| | Posted on Monday, September 10, 2007 - 5:02 pm: |
|
what's your take 30%? or is the bro bono |
familylove
New member
Username: familylove
Post Number: 7
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 65.95.137.192
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 5:16 pm: |
|
Please read the email I received from the Brockville OPP regarding a criminal investigation into what happened at GCC. |
familylove
New member
Username: familylove
Post Number: 8
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 65.95.137.192
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 5:18 pm: |
|
EMAIL:
Thank you for your email dated the 07Sep07. As you can appreciate we
take calls of this nature quite seriously and yes we are aware of the
information contained on www.factnet.org
That said we have not received any complaints on this issue as of yet
and as such there are no ongoing investigations. We would however, be
interested in any information that you would like to share with us.
Incidents of this nature are taken seriously and investigated to their
conclusion as it relates to any criminal wrong doing.
If you or anyone else wishes to make a complaint, please contact the
Grenville County OPP at 200 Development Drive, Prescott, Ontario, Phone
# 613-925-4221 or the Provincial Communications Center in Smith Falls
at
1-888-310-1122. Ask to speak with an officer and a complaint will be
taken in writing or assigned to a member for investigation depending on
the nature of the complaint. If you require any further clarification
please feel free to contact myself at the Prescott detachment or
through
e mail.
Paul Bedard
Detachment Commander - Inspector
Grenville OPP |
tiny
New member
Username: tiny
Post Number: 4
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 70.50.215.250
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:28 am: |
|
Maybe you could be a little more specific as to where this link is to the Grenville College. Maybe I'm blind, but I can't find it and you haven't answered my email. |
sandrabrownearly
Junior Member
Username: sandrabrownearly
Post Number: 38
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 162.83.61.245
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 8:36 am: |
|
On the site there is a book open with a gavel sitting on it...this photo is towards the top of the page. The link is directly under that photo. |
poormanspudding
New member
Username: poormanspudding
Post Number: 3
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 64.40.180.98
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:21 am: |
|
Familylove-- the email says there is no investigation by the OPP. They haven't received any complaints. I wonder why no one has filed a complaint? |
gcc_1981_grad
Junior Member
Username: gcc_1981_grad
Post Number: 39
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.51.146.194
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:37 am: |
|
there is a file at the OPP.. it is at the Prescott OPP. The above e-mail is dated Sept 7.., |
gcc_1981_grad
Junior Member
Username: gcc_1981_grad
Post Number: 40
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.51.146.194
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:47 am: |
|
there is a file at the OPP.. it is at the Prescott OPP. The above e-mail is dated Sept 7.., |
tiny
New member
Username: tiny
Post Number: 5
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 70.50.215.250
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 11:33 pm: |
|
Wow! I guess I'm blind. |
tiny
New member
Username: tiny
Post Number: 6
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 70.50.215.250
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 12:34 am: |
|
Could someone post Paul Bedard's email address? Thanks. |
tiny
New member
Username: tiny
Post Number: 10
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 70.50.215.250
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 1:05 pm: |
|
I sent all the info requested on the web site but my email was returned with the following message:
This is an automatically generated Delivery Status Notification
THIS IS A WARNING MESSAGE ONLY.
YOU DO NOT NEED TO RESEND YOUR MESSAGE.
Delivery to the following recipient has been delayed:
JOE.HOWLETT@HABER.LAWYER.COM
Message will be retried for 2 more day(s)
Technical details of temporary failure:
TEMP_FAILURE: Could not initiate SMTP conversation with any hosts:
[haber.lawyer.com (1): Connection refused]
Is the ISP having problems? Or has the email address changed?
Does anyone have Paul Bedard's email? |
tabby1979
Member
Username: tabby1979
Post Number: 70
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 207.216.241.43
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 3:42 pm: |
|
Hi Tiny - the email you have posted there is incorrect - it is Joe.Howlett@haber-lawyer.com. There is no period between haber and lawyer. Try it again. Hope this helps. |
tabby1979
Member
Username: tabby1979
Post Number: 71
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 207.216.241.43
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 3:52 pm: |
|
Hi Tiny - the email you have posted there is incorrect - it is Joe.Howlett@haber-lawyer.com. There is no period between haber and lawyer. Try it again. Hope this helps. |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 81
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Sunday, October 14, 2007 - 7:19 pm: |
|
If you, or anyone you know, is planning on signing a retainer for a lawyer who is proceeding with litigation, PLEASE be aware of the downside risk. If the case goes to trail, which it most likely will, and the plaintiffs lose, be prepared that the court may force the sponsoring plaintiffs (who signed the retainer) to pay for the defendants legal expenses. It's not all a free ride. The litigation will take several years and the legal costs in the hundreds of thousands of dollars. Start saving now! Make a smart decision not an emotional decision
Also you may be sold the fact that this will "most likely not go to trail and be settled out of court". I can only assume that these lawyers have not met FF and are unaware of his determination for vindication. Choose your lawyer carefully and ask questions before you ink any retainers.
I thought the facts should be known. Hope someone appreciates this information. |
purgatory
Member
Username: purgatory
Post Number: 70
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.71.122.93
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 4:31 am: |
|
Cindy, for what it is worth I appreciated your sound advice, and I hope anyone who is considering this route will take this in to account. For many people this is such an emotionally charged subject, but given the serious ramifications of going the legal route anyone considering this has to be as objective as possible-or at least have someone who is not emotionally involved be objective for them(and I don't mean their lawyer)Sounds crazy, but it is as if you need a lawyer to represent you when dealing with your lawyer..... |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 82
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 6:59 am: |
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Purgy
Great Advice: Spend a couple of hundred dollars getting independent legal advice before signing any retainer agreement with any class action lawyer. You do not need to be listed on the court application to receive remedy if awarded, and then you have no legal liabilty on the downside if non-successful. If you have already signed a retainer agreement and have any second thoughts (which you should at this point) send a letter, immediately, to that lawyer and revoke it. Seek independent legal advice, as Purgy suggested, and then make a clear headed decision, that will not cost you your health (stress, like betting on a horse)and financial net worth. Your mate should also be part of this decision as it may negatively impact your financial condition post court decision.
These lawyers are making 30% plus costs hoping to settle before court. They hope to settle with the insurance company before court, which will not happen as this case, built on "alleged abuse" appears to be a grey area.
If you care about the walking wounded so much, please care, to take care, and weigh in on this point. |
pandersen
Member
Username: pandersen
Post Number: 95
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.87.143.158
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 7:49 am: |
|
No judge or jury, after hearing heart-wrenching stories of abuse from former students, would be so mean-spirited as to slap them with court costs. This is not about a frivolous legal action. Yes, for sure get all the advice you can, but read sindy's advice knowing where that is coming from.
Sinderella's warnings and feigned concern for former students are hollow and disingenuous. Don't listen to her. If you read her other postsings on this site, you know whose best interests she has at heart. |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 83
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 8:16 am: |
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panderson wrote "No judge or jury, after hearing heart-wrenching stories of abuse from former students, would be so mean-spirited as to slap them with court costs"
Do you want to personally guarantee that on behalf of all who sign the retainer and are listed as plaintiffs Mr. panderson? If so Mr panderson must have very deep pockets. That so Mr. panderson?
Hear ye... hear ye... ask Mr. panderson to indemnify you..... then sign away! |
gcc_1981_grad
Member
Username: gcc_1981_grad
Post Number: 75
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.52.180.245
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 8:29 am: |
|
Sinderella - you are an agitator. |
westcedar1
New member
Username: westcedar1
Post Number: 23
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 12.45.228.13
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 9:34 am: |
|
Sinderella- I think you make some good points. Anyone looking at legal action must beware of the "costs" of losing. This is a very emotional charged subject and I praise Sinderella for making some rational points. She might be on the "GCC" side, but nowhere in her posts does she say not to do it because you are wrong, she just outlines the risk. |
andtototoo
New member
Username: andtototoo
Post Number: 8
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 64.40.180.98
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 9:48 am: |
|
Sinderella - ignore panderson, his reaction is over the top again, black and white thinking.
Good advice and worth putting out there. |
2003grad
New member
Username: 2003grad
Post Number: 4
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 64.26.169.113
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 9:54 am: |
|
I hate to be the bearer of bad news, but Sinderella is, for the most part, right. I work int he legal field and judges, when awarding costs, leave emotion completely out of it. I have seen cases first hand where our client has had his or her life completely distroyed (usually because they aren't nice white people, I worked in Human Rights), their stories are horrible amd heart-wrenching and the judge still awarded costs against them. Emotion has nothing to do with the law, generally speaking.
I think Sindy brought up a very good point about this. Any litigation would be time consuming and VERY expensive. Also, as someone who has spoken to FF recently and been very close with him in the last few years, he genuinely thinks he did nothing wrong. I don't think he would settle out of court. I may be surprised, but I really don't think he would. If this case does go ahead, please make sure you have considered all options and that you are prepared for a very long and costly battle. |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 84
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 11:36 am: |
|
Thanks Purgy, Westcedar1, andtototoo, and 2003grad for your unemotional, logical approach to merely a suggestion of being cautious.
panderson is emotional and using my past history on this forum to discredit my "words of advice". He would rather have you act "recklessly". I wonder what his agenda is? He may know that pending litigation will name CofJ as a defendant. Could he be looking for a "Canadian Class Action" to do what no one in the U.S. has successfully done?
Let me ask some pointed questions for open discussion: 1) Has anyone ever successfully sued the CofJ in Canada or the U.S.? Remember they have some very high powered lawyers at the CofJ U.S. who eat people like this up for breakfast. 2) Now that another legal jab at the CofJ is around the corner, this time from Canada, do you think panderson would caution those who may want to be involved, or is his agenda "Get them at all costs!", because down here in the U.S. as litigious as we are, we cannot bring them down!
In regards to gcc1981grad's question of am I an agitator?
YES I AM.
Here is my agenda, if you please: I would like to agitate some "reason" in the process and expose lies, deceit, twisting of the truths, exaggerations and potential slander. If you disagree with me pointing these things out, then fine call me a Troll, and we agree to disagree, however the wider audience needs to know that some things are not as they appear to be.
That's all. |
jes_noonan
Intermediate Member
Username: jes_noonan
Post Number: 123
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 67.70.18.204
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 11:54 am: |
|
I am in complete agreement with Sinderella's points re: court costs, etc. These are issues which have to be addressed for no other reason than limiting exposure and exercising due diligence.
I also agree with 2003grad's point re: the potential for a court to demand that a defendant's costs be paid should the plaintiff lose. The law is unbiased and objective. I'm not aware of any situation where it dosen't pay to know what the worst case scenario would be walking into a given situation. |
tabby1979
Member
Username: tabby1979
Post Number: 84
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 207.216.241.43
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 12:10 pm: |
|
Hi Sinde - thanks for the advice...however in giving your advice, please make sure you spell things right so the interpretation of the sentence is what you really mean.
"If the case goes to trail, which it most likely will, and the plaintiffs lose,..."
"Also you may be sold the fact that this will "most likely not go to trail and be settled out of court"."
I have never heard a case going to trail. |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 85
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 12:26 pm: |
|
Darn Spell Checkers make us lazy. Thanks for the correction I mean Trial not Trail.
I guess I was running down the wrong Trail! LOL |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 86
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 12:53 pm: |
|
A friend of mine called Joe Howlett of Haber & Assoc. and got some interesting news/facts:
1) An article by Kim Lunman of The Brockville Recorder & Times, Canada on Sep 13, 2007 incorrectly stated that Haber & Assoc. had over a over a thousand inquiries. This is false: they have had only approx 30. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/19373/grenville-christian-college-8
2) Haber & Assoc. is a small firm with only 5 lawyers: I guess you get what you may be paying for?
3) Joe Howlett is saying that this case will not go to trial. His reasoning: 90% of cases get settled out of court. A quick settlement netting them 30% of that settlement less their costs. So what we have, is a small legal firm hoping to make a quick buck on what they think is a sure thing. WARNING: This will not be settled out of court as he thinks and if 5 parties are being named, then take the defense legal costs X 5. Do the math and accept the risk if you sign. If you have any doubt call Joe and ask him (905) 639-8894. |
tabby1979
Member
Username: tabby1979
Post Number: 85
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 207.216.241.43
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 1:12 pm: |
|
Sinde - do you think everyone on here is stupid? I am sure that when people hire lawyers for any reason, they certainly get all the facts and information before proceeding and make their own decisions. Personally, if I needed legal advice,I would consult a lawyer before making any final decisions. I would not base my decision on anyone else's advice, certainly not a stranger's advice. |
jes_noonan
Intermediate Member
Username: jes_noonan
Post Number: 124
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 67.70.18.204
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 1:35 pm: |
|
I am in complete agreement with Sinderella's points re: court costs, etc. These are issues which have to be addressed for no other reason than limiting exposure and exercising due diligence.
I also agree with 2003grad's point re: the potential for a court to demand that a defendant's costs be paid should the plaintiff lose. The law is unbiased and objective. I'm not aware of any situation where it dosen't pay to know what the worst case scenario would be walking into a given situation. |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 87
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 1:38 pm: |
|
Tabby,
I do not think everyone is stupid. I do think that emotionally charged people may shoot from the hip because it feels good at the time.
I am happy that you would consult a lawyer before making any final decisions. You are smart.
It's safer not to make assumptions that everyone would do what you would do, Tabby. |
gcc_1981_grad
Member
Username: gcc_1981_grad
Post Number: 76
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.51.137.96
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 4:14 pm: |
|
I do not think that Sinde has any ability to agitate or manipulate the course of this website. I believe Sinde and others are only able to post when they feel it is safe for them to do so. By nature, people who attack with petty arguments like I have been seeing are weak. Very quickly, the story of GCC seemed to have sky rocketed from a few individuals disclosing the obvious destructive nature of GCC to a media story, church inquiry and an OPP investigation. The rapid development has left some people reeling trying to make sense of it all. For me, I moved from a very grateful position of being able to share some dark stories with others with the very real hope of allowing a dark stain on my physic to be removed to a crusader of trying to do the “right thing”. As a crusader, I have been fortunate enough to speak with a lot of individuals who are involved with GCC. I have spoken with people who were involved with building and running of the school. I am certain that people were treated badly. Some of these people are not clear on why they were treated badly. They have come up with their own ideas. I do not feel like I have full understanding on why people were forced to submit to light sessions, or why they were beat, or made to believe that God will come to them, or the devil will take them, or told that they lived in the sin of rebellion, or idolatry or any of the other power trips that took place. With the media telling a factual story, the OPP looking for evidence, and the Church doing what ever it is that it is doing, I became overwhelmed. It began to feel like I was overly focused on what is being published in the press, the OPP, and the Church investigation. I started to allow the reality of my experience at GCC to slip back into the depth of my being that it lived in for 25 years. After all, I have become used to suppressing this experience deep within me. I was able to protect it there. And now postings like Sinde’s and others only serve to drive this reality deeper and deeper into myself. There is no information from these posts; there is nothing insightful or enriching or intelligent being posted. I find myself thankful when others post an honest description of their experience at GCC. I am thankful because it lets me know that there is a place to heal, a place where anyone can come and share. I do not feel comfortable with ignoring the privilege to share due to the gut-less rambling of Sinde and the rest. |
adelicatebalance
New member
Username: adelicatebalance
Post Number: 14
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 64.40.180.98
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 4:39 pm: |
|
gcc_grad -- what a shame you feel this way. Your last post underscores the one-sidedness of this website so that those like Zoe and others are afraid to post contrary opinions for fear of getting "yelled" at. Granted some people (including myself) can be extremely inflamatory when posting -- this comes from anger -- but both sides are guilty of this. I understand your unwillingness to hear Sinderella but it is a shame nonetheless.
It is hard to get past the rehetoric of some posts but there are gems of truth in them all. |
late_lights
Junior Member
Username: late_lights
Post Number: 39
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 192.197.178.2
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 4:56 pm: |
|
Well said "adelicatebalance". With the high levels of emotion this forum can generate it shouldn't be surprising that not everyone will share the same point of view.
While I might not always agree with her process, sinderella has contributed many sound postings, and it's too bad that her points about the ramifications of participating in a class action lawsuit could be so easily dismissed. |
jes_noonan
Intermediate Member
Username: jes_noonan
Post Number: 125
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 67.70.18.204
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 5:45 pm: |
|
Let's call a spade a spade here. This website is no longer one-sided. Was it? Sure. Not any longer though. The fact that 3 of the last 4 posts on this thread have been authored by those whom I'll call "pro-gcc", for lack of a better way of putting it (unless anti-anti-gcc is more to your collective liking), exemplifies this. I'm not suggesting that the numbers are equal per se, but I think that it is fair to say that both sides are well represented now.
The "yelling", etc that's been prevalent lately has come from both sides and the chasm is seemingly widening by the day because of it - not because of the intended point (and I'm not considering an intended barb a point) within a posting. There is a lack of RESPECT for others with differing opinions on this site.
One side seems to be content with blaming the other for the inability to communicate, being irrational, being close-minded, etc and vice versa.
So what exactly has been achieved on this site over the past month or so? Have those that were here pre-media had a chance to continue with their intended discussions? Sort of, but while having someone else irritate the sh$t out of them while doing it. Have those who represent the pro-gcc (again, I use the term loosely and with no intention of insulting anyone) side gained anything since becoming involved with Factnet? Maybe. If making sure that it's made known on this site that not all who attended gcc share the same opinion, then mission accomplished. But at the end of the day, where is this seemingly endless diatribe going to get us? The exact same place we would've ended up if we could've just collectively agreed to disagree in a civil manner right off the hop. Eventually this bullsh$t is going to die down, we'll scurry back off into our two groups and life will go on with nothing to show for it save for a website which will highlight the fact that we all suck at conflict resolution. Awesome. Hindsight being the counsel of perfection, I almost regret not using some incognito handle on here in lieu of my real name. Almost. |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 88
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 7:08 pm: |
|
Interesting everyone!
Appreciated all the comments and enjoyed the opinions.
Reminder that this thread is titled "Class Action Update" I would have thought that this was the spot to discuss that specific subject. Outside of responding to Tabby about a spelling mistake and then her flame, all I did was give updated and relevent information to this subject.
That's all.... so go ahead and attack me for doing that. |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 90
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 7:18 pm: |
|
Here is my opinion and thoughts on anyone initiating the litigation against GCC, CofJ, FF and the Churchies.
After reading my warnings of the downside risks if you choose to sign the retainer then: If you lose, and the defendents are awarded costs, which you will pay, and this Web Site is still around in 2-5 years, I reserve the right to come back and say I TOLD YOU SO!
If you choose to heed good advice then I commend you and look forward to your appreciation with a simple Thanks. |
dignityquest
Junior Member
Username: dignityquest
Post Number: 48
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 99.228.175.126
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 8:48 pm: |
|
I posted this on a seperate thread and maybe doing her is unproductive. But here it is anyway. Thank also to many other ariculate thoughtful voices from BOTH perspectives.
Though I have been rather quite as of late and been talking a lot more with folks privately, I've decideed to take one more stab at offering a framework we may be able to operate from. Many wonderful souls have been level-headed and offered great support, no matter their personal view of things, so, perhaps I am foolish to try, but here goes.
1. Let's stop all labels of anykind (i.e. nay-sayers, hanger's on, lush, drunk, backstabbers hypocrites, etc.).
2. Speak only about the issue, not the person.
3. Refrain from any statement that judges or values one experience over another.
4. Focus on your experience, not compared to someone else's, just as your own.
5. Respond from the presumption of positive intentions.
6. Speak from an awareness that there are many knds of pain right now, from many different sides. Those who were hurt and those who feel they and/or their friends or relatives are being attacked. Pain is pain!!!
7. If you are posting here, no matter what your position, more as a matter of "sport" than understanding and learning, please, take up a new sport.
These are suggested without any "power" or ability to enforce, just an attempt to honour the original purpose of the site as well as recognize that the climate is going to be a little differnt with all that is happening and therfore adjustments will need to be made on all sides. If this seems too late, and it may, I understand, I felt obliged to try. THis is doable, Peace
Respectfully, DQ (Jeff) |
purgatory
Member
Username: purgatory
Post Number: 71
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.71.122.93
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 9:00 pm: |
|
Jeff, Please don't think I am making light of your most recent posting, BUT....there may have been a Freudian slip on your part, and I am laughing so much I'm in tears..."I posted this on a separate thread and maybe doing her is unproductive".Nothing like a little fun to relieve some stress!!!LOL |
wagener84
Member
Username: wagener84
Post Number: 94
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 68.151.117.98
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 9:09 pm: |
|
Now that would depend on who she is.... ;) |
purgatory
Member
Username: purgatory
Post Number: 72
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.71.122.93
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 9:17 pm: |
|
Very true Mike, inyet i think Jeff decided at the end of his post that it is doable. this is nuts- I went back to the post to read it again with a little less comedy as I always value what Jeff has to say...I get to the end, and Oops another chuckle...Jeff has decided it(or she) is doable!!!
I really should get off here for awhile as I'm not at the moment giving proper attention to what Jeff is talking about, and I really should be as he seems to be a very wise, and level headed person. Cheers..Catherine |
dignityquest
Junior Member
Username: dignityquest
Post Number: 49
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 99.228.175.126
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 9:35 pm: |
|
Thanks folks, I'm a lousy editor, It reminds me of the minster speaking about gay marriage. He said "we do not condom this" True story. Cheers, Jeff (maybe the humour was more useful than the advise) |
adelicatebalance
New member
Username: adelicatebalance
Post Number: 15
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 99.232.177.62
| | Posted on Monday, October 15, 2007 - 10:10 pm: |
|
As much as I want to "deck" many people here a lot of the time... I don't think I really do. You are all quite wonderful and I want to continue the dialogue. It is so hard not to get mad. I think Jesse N. articulated it well... "We suck at conflict resolution" but that's okay -- each side cares deeply or there wouldn't be this conflict. I suspect there will never be a meeting of the minds on this but each side wants to be heard ...so let's try to, at least, do that. |
wagener84
Member
Username: wagener84
Post Number: 95
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 68.151.117.98
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 12:59 am: |
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With respect to law suits and ramifications, etc. My opinion is that you do what you think is right in your heart. If you live by your conscience things have a tendancy to work out. Do not back down of you truly believe you were victimized. At the same time, if you had a hard time but were not "abused" as defined by law, perhaps reconsider. Each individual must choose what is the right path according to their own heart and conscience. If there are any believers left out there...perhaps now would be a good time to pray about where you've been and where you're going and what needs to be done to achieve justice, closure, and peace. Godspeed to all on this difficult journey!! |
adelicatebalance
New member
Username: adelicatebalance
Post Number: 16
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 64.40.180.98
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 9:40 am: |
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I agree with Wagener84 -- to some extent, however, I was raised at GCC with the mantra "pray about it, seek God's will". Even though I agree to this in principle -- I believe firmly in doing thorough due diligence -- going into situations knowing fully what all the ramifications are. For me there was a deferring of responsibility in the 'pray about it' approach. As well, emotions, to me, are not necessarily the truth. The heart and conscience are guided by emotions and sometimes, this can be a dangerous thing. I never appreciated Trudeau's "reason over passion" philosophy until recently. I worry about people going into this situation guided by emotion without doing the homework to make sure they won't be hurt further by the legal process. I know next to nothing about the law and how it works. I know nothing about how class actions work. If it were me, I'd start by doing some research into past suits of a similar nature, I'd thoroughly research Haber to see what their experience is with class actions and finally, I would run everything by a lawyer not related to the case to make sure my best interests are served. Taking responsibility for decisions like this was something I never learned at GCC and the consequences for me were very serious. |
2003grad
New member
Username: 2003grad
Post Number: 5
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 64.26.169.113
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 10:01 am: |
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There is another issue that I wanted to raise before but wasn't sure if I should or not because it may be delicate. Wagener84's post made me decide to tho. His comment about 'if you had a hard time but were not abused as defined by law' was the kicker. I was thinking about it last night and one of the things that kept coming up in my mind was the fact that some of the things that happened, paddling etc, while illegal NOW, weren't illegal in the 70s and 80s. While I fully understand that there is a difference between paddling and beating, you would have to prove that the episode constituted beating at the time, and not just the standard form of corporal punishment. I am not trying to excuse anything, just saying that this case would be very difficult. I also agree with whoever it was that mentioned that the firm taking this on is a small firm. Small firms doing major class action cases is generally not a good thing. We had a class action case that involved over 300 inmates in the OCDC, and our firm was only 4 lawyers. We had to drop the case before we even got it certified as a class action, it was too much, the lawyer on the other side was way too powerful, and we weren't getting paid. If this case does go ahead, I would recommend going to a larger firm. I do know of one firm in Ottawa that is well renowned for doing class action cases. They are one of the best firms in Ottawa and they have done similar cases in the past. I am not going to post the name of the firm on here, but if anyone is interested, email me at zoethriscutt@canada.com and I would be happy to let you know. I'm not assuming anyone on here is stupid or anything like that, just saying PLEASE be careful. Whoever it was that said that people who are emotionally charged about a subject can 'shoot from the hip' so to speak is very correct. I have seen it many times. There is a big difference between having been justifiably wronged and being able to prove that in court. I saw many people who had been wronged but they couldn't prove their case in court. Yet they still went ahead and spent thousands of dollars pursuing their case because they were determined that eventually someone would see how hurt they had been. It doesn't work like that. Emotion has no part in the courtroom. Sorry this is a long rant, but I don't want to see anyone else get hurt anymore than they already are... either emotionally or financially. |
madeitanyway
New member
Username: madeitanyway
Post Number: 14
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 149.173.6.50
| | Posted on Tuesday, October 16, 2007 - 12:23 pm: |
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I just saw this thread and one thing to consider if there is thought around the speed and settlement prior to court is to see how the anglican church worked the residential school suit. It went on for years and years. it did go to court and once the money was determined, both churches (Anglican & Catholic) had little to none to spare and had to make special provisions through the parishes to pay it, which has been going on for more that 10 years. The problem resulting in this is that much of the money paid was for administrative stuff like legal and dispursement charges. In the end some programs got set up and couselling and stuff but the actual cash to the kids that were involved was very limited. I didn't follow the trial and stuff closely for the whole thing, but things were being substantiated by preists and minsters and others in authority that i don't see coming forward here. 2003grad brings up some good points on what was considered acceptable then, is not now. Much of the emotional money tied to the Residential school issue was tearing the kids from their culture, not from the abuse. the abuse was relatively scarce, it was the cultural issues that paid the $. Abuse again considered ok then, but not now. |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 99
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 10:27 am: |
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LooksLikeWeMadeitanyway, Very good point!
Also consider that the defendants may request that the plaintiffs deposit into court, in advance, monies to pay the defendants costs if they lose. These lawsuits may cost 1 million plus to defend as there are many parties named, and several years of time to burn. If I was council for the defense, I would motion a judge to have this done. If I was asked to sign a retainer I would insist that the representing law firm would put up this money in trust to ensure it gets paid. |
sinderella
Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 100
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 10:35 am: |
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Another point.
The lawyer$ will mo$t likely a$k in the retainer, that the litigant$ pay $pecific co$ts which may include incurring di$bursement$ and retaining profe$$ional$ for their opinion$ relating to the law$uit. Oh this get$ good, a$ $ome of the$e profe$$ional$, demand a hefty fee, for their opinion. I am $ure there will be many opinion$ here. $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ |
wagener84
Member
Username: wagener84
Post Number: 100
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 199.214.192.50
| | Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 10:42 am: |
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Why the concerted effort to dissuade those seeking legal recourse? Surely you're not presuming to be concerned with the financial well-being of the grievors? I am certain those considering their legal options are educated enough to weigh the pros and cons of filing civil suit. If they proceed, one can assume that they are fully prepared to take whatever risks are involved with the process. Remember, this is civil, not criminal so the burden of proof is substantially diminished. All the group of grievors have to prove is that they likely suffered some level of emotional or psychological abuse and the case will succeed. Im no lawyer but based on the sheer number of revelations coming to light, I would say the case is strong enough to proceed with. Like I have posted previously, do what you think is right in your heart and don't be dissuaded by fears of costs, etc. |
pandersen
Member
Username: pandersen
Post Number: 96
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 24.87.143.158
| | Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 11:21 am: |
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Thank you, wagener84. Good advice. |
survivor1101
New member
Username: survivor1101
Post Number: 21
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 207.112.105.233
| | Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 12:05 pm: |
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Sinde,
All I can say is HAHAHAH!!!!
You keep trying.... you keep trying. Its not working, but you keep trying. LMAO!!! |
strength
Member
Username: strength
Post Number: 98
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.71.20.122
| | Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 12:17 pm: |
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There are many people who are working hard to try to prevent abuse from happening to children in the future.
Not all of these people are involved in the OPP investigation. And not all of these people are involved in class action activity.
Some people are just trying to urge those in positions of influence / authority / power to ensure that children at religious schools are afforded the protection of the Ontario Human Rights Code.
We can argue all we want about whether the class action suit is valid, but that issue will be settled in court.
In the meantime, why waste our efforts pi$$ing on each other about the class-action suit? We don't even know how many GCC alumni are taking that route! |
sinderella
Intermediate Member
Username: sinderella
Post Number: 102
Registered: 10-2007
Posted From: 99.224.11.219
| | Posted on Friday, October 19, 2007 - 2:38 pm: |
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survivor1101
Just like the energizer bunny! |
