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Message |
    
johiyom
Junior Member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 45
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Saturday, September 08, 2007 - 2:16 am: | 
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I read this post on the Tomax site and would like someone to clarify and give me the context and any further details of Hobart's last message severely rebuking the ministers, locking the doors, etc.The poster stated they were told to turn off their tape recorders.
"I remember clearly Dr. Freeman's last message before he died. It is not recorded because he told everyone to turn off their tape recorders what he had to say was to the ministers. He severely rebuked the other ministers at FA and said he would do it all himself if he had too. That he would even lock the doors if necessary. I told myself that if he locked those doors I was out of here. That was the first time I dared to challenge Dr. Freeman in my thoughts. I also remember the day they announced his death and I imagined Dr. Freeman entering heaven into the loving arms of our savior and not being "hit over the head like he always hit us over the head." Carol B. |
rachelengland
Senior Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 2849
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 134.215.245.157
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 9:30 am: |
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What killed Mr Freeman...unbelief or lack if medical attention. BOTH? |
duncan
Intermediate Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 223
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 9:37 am: |
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Rachel,
I will tell you what physically killed him, and you decide.
He had purchased a new pair of shoes (I assume they were of the orthopedic nature, but I can't confirm). The shoes rubbed a blister on his foot. Being diabetic, the blister became infected because of poor blood supply. This led to severe infection, which led to death.
I will leave the rest up to you.
Duncan |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 436
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 76.240.205.166
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:07 am: |
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...interestingly enough,
I had a long time friend of mine who was unsaved and rejected Christ all his life, who died of the very same EXACT thing.
...he was a diabetic, who developed a blister on his foot that got infected, festered for a period of almost 2 years, during which time the doctors filled him with enough antibiotics to sterilize the Pacific, and eventually amputated the leg 2 weeks before he died: death due to the shock and trauma of the operation and the failure of his heart, hardened by the years of insulins' negative side effects.
He received Jesus Christ as his Savior on his deathbed.
...quite a different story though than HEFs', yet the same outcome...howbeit with longer time for him and his family to suffer, and a mega-hospital bill.
...so tell me, enemies of FA and HEF, why do you see HEFs' death, as 'proof' that HEF was wrong?
Does not the Bible tell us that even Elisha, who raised the dead, and performed miracles, 'died of the sickness wherein he was sick'? |
hardbones
Junior Member
Username: hardbones
Post Number: 49
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 65.93.29.103
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:23 am: |
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What killed HEF? Good question. With all the rumors half truths lies misrepresentations . . . floating around at this point it would be difficult to get the truth. I'm sure we can all agree that the account printed in the media was correct. Can't we? I mean they took a interest in his life. Always took time to verify facts. Never had another agenda. Checked with proper sources. etc. ( I feel like washing my mouth out with soap here).
Joe Brennamen is pastor of Faith Assembly and was Mrs. Freemans pastor before she died. He probably has the best info available. Send him a note if anyone is interested.
jobrennemanfa@embarqmail.com
I'm going to put a note here on my opinion of why HEF died. Not the physical cause but the spiritual. I think there was three reasons
-Because his work was done. I think the basic call on his life was to lay a "foundation" for the preparing of the overcomers. I think that work was done and continues.
- because there were too many of us that were hanging on his coattails and making an idol out of him and God won't share his glory with anyone.
-I think he wanted to go. Home to be with the Lord that is. I think as he laid there on his bed recovering from that trial he looked in his heart at the years ahead and didn't like what he saw. Prosecution from the legal authorities,persecution from the media,too many (not all) people hanging on to his coattails, a timid charimatic church that left him hanging alone. His personality and strength of charactor played a part as well. I think he looked in his heart at the years to come and just wanted to go home and for the reasons given above god accomadated him. |
studious
New member
Username: studious
Post Number: 13
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 70.153.89.223
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:42 am: |
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My nephew has type 1 (juvenile) diabetes and has been on an insulin pump for years. Is God incapable of healing diabetes? Of course not, but why test God? Jesus said don't put God to the test. Unless one is a mature person faced with such a decision (say by getting type 2--adult-onset--diabetes), Nick's parents did what they had to do so that he could live as normal a life as possible. He also has grave's disease and is on medication for that as well. I'm sure his mother (my sister) prays for her son as he pursues a college education, but better have that pump up and running because he's an active young man not given to martyrdom for a cause as HEF was. |
rachelengland
Senior Member
Username: rachelengland
Post Number: 2851
Registered: 5-2005
Posted From: 134.215.245.157
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:49 am: |
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I appreciate the response to this question I have posed.... I wonder why others died following the message he preached...some say lack of faith but I think it was lack of common sense in a physical world...R |
matt_hatter
Senior Member
Username: matt_hatter
Post Number: 4222
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 216.226.180.3
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:14 am: |
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Because his work was done. I think the basic call on his life was to lay a "foundation" for the preparing of the overcomers. I think that work was done and continues.
Please tell me you are kidding. The foundation he laid was cracked and faulty. A foolish man and foolish followers. He wanted to go? How about.... he had a disease that he refused to recognize and died.
One thing you are correct about. Unfortunately, his 'work' continues. But please point me to one of these WoF preachers who have totally 'overcome' sickness and disease, personally and in their healing 'ministry'.
Rachel is right, lacking common sense in a physical world. |
studious
New member
Username: studious
Post Number: 14
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 70.153.89.223
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:16 am: |
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I lean toward lack of common sense, but there must've been healings as well, just not across the board. What does that mean? I dunno... |
matt_hatter
Senior Member
Username: matt_hatter
Post Number: 4223
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 216.226.180.3
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:34 am: |
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Nick's parents did what they had to do so that he could live as normal a life as possible
Nick's parents are wise and you should be proud to have family members like them. |
hardbones
Junior Member
Username: hardbones
Post Number: 50
Registered: 12-2006
Posted From: 65.93.29.103
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 11:35 am: |
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"he had a disease that he refused to recognize and died".
So you have the staight info on how he died do you? Probably read it in the paper.
You sound to me like one of those who see him as something other than a human being in difficult circumstances. Some see him as something more and some see him as something less. |
studious
New member
Username: studious
Post Number: 15
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 70.153.89.223
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 12:09 pm: |
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Nick's parents are actually the norm--we don't come from a Protestant, let alone a Holiness or Pentecostal, tradition so medicine is a routine part of our lives, though I don't run to a dr. every time I have a sniffle like the pharmaceutical companies would love for us to! |
johiyom
Member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 87
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 25, 2007 - 10:53 pm: |
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You know these posts are all fine and well- pro, con- on why Hobart Freeman died, but they don't answer the questions about his last sermon. Rebuking the ministers and saying he'd do it all himself? Rebuking them for what? What'd they do wrong? Or not do? Doing what all himself? And locking the doors? What's that all about? For what? To keep everybody out and shut the church down or keep everybody in? And I think this Carol B. had a point when she said Jesus wouldn't hit him over the head like he always hit them over the head.
Please elaborate. |
johiyom
Member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 89
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 12:20 am: |
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duncan,
I've enjoyed reading many of the things you've had to say in your posts on various topics. |
duncan
Intermediate Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 224
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 9:33 am: |
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Thanks, Johiyom.
I have a couple of comments. First, I spoke with my father (one of the preachers at FA) yesterday regarding HEF's last sermon. He said that he did not remember any such account about locking doors, etc. He does remember on occasion that when church discipline took place, people were told to turn off their tape recorders.
I still have all my sermon notes as a child. I went back a few months ago and looked through my notes. I didn't find HEFs last sermon, but I wasn't really looking for it. I will go back and see if I can find it.
I did find my notes from the Sunday morning after he died on Saturday night. My notes said that there was no sermon. Only singing and praying.
On a totally different subject, what is the meaning of your handle "johiyom"? Just curious.
Have a great day!
Duncan |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 440
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 76.252.29.102
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 10:38 am: |
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quote:PhoneyYom:
duncan,
I've enjoyed reading many of the things you've had to say in your posts on various topics.
Tongues interpretation:
'hey there little red ridin' hood, you sure are lookin' good.....'
I think that a recruitment effort for the dark side is under way.
Ya see, Phoney, what Jesus meant when He said 'the narrow way' is that when one decides to veer off the path by a few degrees ( like denying the efficacy of Mark 11:24 ), by the time one has traveled some distance, the path is no longer even visible.
Some advice:
Don't apply for a job with NASA as an engineer.
They don't like missing their target. |
duncan
Intermediate Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 225
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 3:32 pm: |
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Hombre,
Thanks for the concern. However, I'm not the child I was at FA. I think I'm grounded enough to have intelligent discussion without being drawn away from what I believe.
Thanks!
Duncan |
studious
New member
Username: studious
Post Number: 16
Registered: 9-2007
Posted From: 70.153.89.223
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 26, 2007 - 3:44 pm: |
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Hombre, do you currently attend the FA led by Joe Brenneman? Or do you at least listen in on PalTalk? Just curious. |
johiyom
Member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 90
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 2:52 am: |
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duncan, my screen name is an incorporation of the native american mingo-seneca word for big river. And hombre needs to get a life. You can believe what you want and people can discuss things without hombre's paranoia. I'm not Darth Vader, Darth Maul, or the Emperor of the Dark Side of the Force. By the way, I'm more of a fan of Star Trek and have TNG, DS9, and Voyager series all on DVD. I'd better go through deliverance for watching Star Trek- all those aliens and whatnot. ;-) When I first joined and posted on this site he immediately changed my name to PhoneyYom and started in calling me names-moron, stupid, etc. I haven't checked but he probably calls people fools and other things. Then he said he didn't have the interest or time to respond to people like me and I told him he'd be back because he can't help himself, and sure enough here he is. The first to post his little kissy face smileys in his responses to my posts.
Now I'm the wolf looking for little red riding hoods. If it's not one thing it's another.
Thanks for your response, duncan. |
johiyom
Member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 91
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 3:47 am: |
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P.S. I'm raked over the coals for toying with the supernatural-the satire vision and prophecy.
Then hombre gives a tongues and interpretation, which is equivalent to prophesying.
So he isn't even following the advice he gave me.
Hmmm?
(Message edited by JOhiyoM on September 27, 2007) |
duncan
Intermediate Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 226
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 205.255.224.10
| | Posted on Thursday, September 27, 2007 - 11:53 am: |
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JoyInHim,
(When I read you handle, that is how it always sounds to me, so I will use that. Hope you don't mind.)
Because of the vastly different backgrounds and personal situations of people on this site, here are a few of the guidelines I try to follow when posting.
1) I realize that since my father was one of the ministers and we were close to the Freemans, we may have experienced a different side of FA than the typical member. As such, I never deny something happened to someone else. I can only speak from personal experience.
2) I have tried to refrain from name calling on this forum. I know that I slipped up when dealing with FiveFold, and I apologized and asked his forgiveness. I would admonish anyone who takes pleasure in name calling to be careful. Jesus is clear in Matt 5 about calling people names, like "fool."
In fact the Greek word that Jesus used for fool is "Moros," which means "empty headed." It is where we get our English word for "Moron."
3) I will never personally attack a minister (elder) of the Word. If they teach something that I believe to be wrong, based upon scripture, then I will point it out. They may be a true minister of God that fell into error. I am very careful not to come against someone God has appointed an elder.
4) It makes my stomach churn and grieves me greatly to see people joke about the things of God. I will not do that, and I am deeply concerned when others do that.
In addition, people through around the Holy name of Jesus like it's a baseball. I have been deeply offended, and have stated on this board before that going back and forth with comments like "I don't receive your spirit in Jesus name" etc. is of Satanic origin and only belittles the Name of above all names. It only serves the purpose of Satan to turn people off and bring reproach upon Christians and our Savior.
5) Finally, when it comes to the purpose of this thread (Hobart Freeman and FA), I am going to call it like I believe it is. That has gotten me into trouble with folks on both sides of the fence (Healed, Hombre, Fiver, etc.)
Just because I agree with HEF on particular issues (like theology) does not make me a rabid "Freemanite." On the other hand, just because I disagree with his interpretation on many issues (doctors, first-fruits rapture) does not mean I discount his entire ministry.
Like I've said before, I'm not the kid I was at FA. I am able to study and discern scriptures for myself. (That's not to say that I don't learn a lot from reading other commentaries or listening to various preachers). In the end, however, it is the Holy Spirit that has spoken to me through the Word of God.
Just some thoughts on where I'm coming from.
Have a great day!
Duncan |
johiyom
Member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 92
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Friday, September 28, 2007 - 3:51 am: |
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Thank you for your response and I've learned something from it. I have made many mistakes on this site and don't claim to know everything- am in a learning process like everyone else.
Although it may not sound like it because of the way I've said things, the manner in which I've posted, my choice of words, etc. I do believe that I am in agreement with your statement:
"Just because I agree with HEF on particular issues (like theology) does not make me a rabid "Freemanite." On the other hand, just because I disagree with his interpretation on many issues (doctors, first-fruits rapture) does not mean I discount his entire ministry."
I loved Hobart's New Testament Theology teachings, for example.
I haven't had the time to thoroughly research it and it is so involved(pre,mid,post views)-I'm open to learning or changing my views- but at this point in time I don't even believe in the pre-tribulation rapture anymore for "overcomers" or any Christian in general because of how I understand what I've read in II Thess. I believe that the antichrist must be revealed before that day of our gathering together with Christ. And I don't believe the pope is the antichrist as some Protestants do.
I don't believe the denominational systems are Babylon because of my understanding of the 7 churches of Asia and after reading all of Paul's epistles to the various 1st century churches- they had a LOT of problems themselves- and they had more supernatural occurences right in front of their eyes than Hobart/FA, you or I have ever seen or experienced. All I have to do is read the book of Acts. So signs, miracles, healings, deliverances, raising the dead, apostolic ministry with faith to move mountains, etc. doesn't somehow perfect the church.
Once again, thanks for your post.
johiyom |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 441
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 76.240.194.60
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 9:51 am: |
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quote:PhoneyYom:...P.S. I'm raked over the coals for toying with the supernatural-the satire vision and prophecy.
Then hombre gives a tongues and interpretation, which is equivalent to prophesying.
So he isn't even following the advice he gave me.
Hmmm?
...I was wondering when you'd pick up on that.
Here's the key, promoter of unbelief.
You speak a different language than I.
One of religious deceit.
I was merely interpreting what your motives were behind what you said, for the benefit of those who cannot see beyond your attempt to dissuade others from 'The' faith.
....therefore, in terms of the most absolute definition of it, that was certainly 'tongues interpretation'. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 442
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 76.240.194.60
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 9:54 am: |
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quote::Duncan: Hombre,
Thanks for the concern. However, I'm not the child I was at FA. I think I'm grounded enough to have intelligent discussion without being drawn away from what I believe.
...it really wasn't concern, as much as an observation, Duncan. I am aware that you are well-grounded in what you believe. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 444
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 76.240.194.60
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:29 am: |
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Duncan: my sincerest apologies for misreading another post of yours, thinking it was Phoneys', and responding to it. I have deleted that post. I am not incapable of mistakes, and I readily admit it when I make them. |
duncan
Intermediate Member
Username: duncan
Post Number: 227
Registered: 1-2005
Posted From: 75.120.33.3
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:37 am: |
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No problem on the mistake, Hombre. I've been know to make a couple myself.
(Actually, I'm not sure to what post you responded, so you're off the hook!)
Duncan |
johiyom
Member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 96
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:40 am: |
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In the book Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin there's a whole chapter on scaling(overcoming?) the language barriers. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 446
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 76.240.194.60
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:42 am: |
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Duncan, I asssume that you receive these automatically via e-mail.
That is how I always knew when Fiver was trying to pull something, and came back to delete his postings after the fact. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 447
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 76.240.194.60
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:47 am: |
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quote:PhoneyYom: In the book Kingdom of the Cults by Walter Martin there's a whole chapter on scaling(overcoming?) the language barriers.
Fascinating.
In Hobart Freemans Book, 'Faith for Healing', there's information on growing in faith. Highly recommended. |
johiyom
Member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 97
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 10:59 am: |
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So which is it hombre? Am I a religious deceiver, not even in the faith, attempting to dissuade others from the faith just like Elymas the sorcerer(Acts 13), or am I really already in the faith and just need to grow in it by reading Hobart Freeman's book, Faith for Healing? You can't have it both ways. |
johiyom
Member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 98
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Saturday, September 29, 2007 - 11:22 am: |
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Just for the record: I don't know fivefoldprophet, have never met fivefoldprophet, and while I do edit when posting, I will not delete ANY post that I've written on here. I'll leave them as is, mistakes or any perceived mistakes. That way no one can accuse me of pulling fast ones.
And hombre, I still believe you are paranoid.
Definition: Exhibiting or characterized by extreme and irratitional fear or distrust of others; characterized by suspiciousness, persecutory trends, megalomania. |
hombre
Intermediate Member
Username: hombre
Post Number: 450
Registered: 8-2005
Posted From: 76.252.26.110
| | Posted on Monday, October 01, 2007 - 10:03 am: |
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quote:Johnny-John: So which is it hombre? Am I a religious deceiver, not even in the faith, attempting to dissuade others from the faith just like Elymas the sorcerer(Acts 13), or am I really already in the faith and just need to grow in it by reading Hobart Freeman's book, Faith for Healing? You can't have it both ways.
I can have it however I want, Johnny.
Right now, I consider you to be ignorant in the Word of God, and desirous of leading others in your misunderstanding of it.
That leaves you open to learning, and putting aside your religious fallacies.
quote:Johnny-John: And hombre, I still believe you are paranoid.
...no more so than any sheep among a cadre of wolves. |
johiyom
Intermediate Member
Username: johiyom
Post Number: 107
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 75.185.69.124
| | Posted on Saturday, October 06, 2007 - 7:34 pm: |
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"Right now, I consider you to be ignorant in the Word of God, and desirous of leading others in your misunderstanding of it.That leaves you open to learning, and putting aside your religious fallacies."
Desirous of leading others in my misunderstanding? I haven't claimed to have a ministry or started a ministry or church in my house, then a barn, a tent, and then a cornfield in Indiana? I seek no following. Nor have I started up my own website called "overcomers" in an attempt to lead you or anyone else. If I'm not mistaken, the last time I checked, this is merely a public forum on the www.... internet.... at a site called factnet, under a cult discussion board, where everyone comes to express their views on churches, cults, and religious movements- you included. I'm not seeking leadership or a leadership position. And while I'm open to learning and putting aside religious fallacies, perhaps you need to have some work done on you too. |
