| Author | Message | ||
     nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 198 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
A humble man does not call himself humble nor a wise man wise... I'd just like to hear some feedback from you folks here on a entry in my on-line diary. http://www.opendiary.com/entryview.asp?authorcode=D481089&entry=10060&mode=date Especially from Randy Spenser(and his kin)if possible... Oh! And this includes all you wise women also!!! | ||
| randyspenser New member Username: randyspenser Post Number: 2 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.49.198.243 |
Nabash, Who's life is it for us to decide on our purpose. There are those who would "brag" about how humble they are (?) and how "they Give up their lives" for their brothers and willing to lay there lives down for others. Others "brag" about decisions they make with their lives that will "help mankind". There is something that to me seems very Proud and arrogant about both of these people. First in both cases it seems to imply we have ownership of our lives. If we are truly servants to our Father, then He is the one who owns us and the decision-making should be His. If we humble ourselves to total submission by taking ourselves out of our lives and givimg Him full control, there is nothing arrogant in us because we are merely letting Him have all the responsibilty for and Glory fgrom our existance. Then we are total Servants. In my view (for what it's worth), here's how I translate our attitudes toward life (or maybe it's just mine that I wish to evolve from); If we are "seeking the meaning of life" then we are trying to say "Father, what do you want me to do with this life that I own and tell me how I can sacrifice it to you so someday you will reward me". If we feel it would be better had we never been born, then we are saying "Father, you didn't know what you were doing when you made me and I am only complete if I KNOW what my purpose is; I don't trust you enough, God, to know what you're doing and need you to keep me informed so I know what you are doing is right". Is taking ourselves out of our lives and giving Him total control possible? Is serving Him totally without becoming sinful in our pride that we are "right" or the "Chosen" and noone else has the answers possible? Can we totally (as Paul talks about) die daily to the flesh and have ourselves taken out of the equation? Can we take not "our possessions" and understand they do not belong to us, but we are only caretakers of what The Father owns? Can we understand our lives and souls are also not our own but we are only caretakers of them? Is it possible for us to humble ourselves this much? If this is what The Father wants of us then living in community where I was told everyone there owns everything equally, then are they not taking possession and not living as caretakers of His possessions? Are ANY OF US able to live such a humble life? Just food for thought. | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 199 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Thanks for posting Randy... It's good to hear from you! I think you nailed it twice! The pride and the possession. I know in my heart that the few material things I "steward" were given to me out of "Divine Providence" and not of my own doing... and I have no claim to them and they have no hold on me either and would gladly give them up to feel that "peace beyond all understanding" that I have felt in the past. I have let my "self" get in the way... | ||
| randyspenser New member Username: randyspenser Post Number: 3 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.49.198.243 |
I wonder, David, if we realize how our words and actions lead others either in the right or wrong directions. As people follow your life's journey, you are never neutral in influence; you either lead toward the Master or away. Either way we are daily accountable. It is my prayer that people will look at your life and the lives of all on here and learn from them and find glory in our victories and strenghth in our trials. I have learned much from both those former members of Twelve Tribes as well as those presently drawn toward them. We never walk through life without leaving "footprints" of our journey. Raised as a Native American, I was amazed watching the elders teach the young people how to read tracks of animals and people. Today, I realise even more how important that is in our Spiritual life while others are reading our footprints. Like tracking animals, Our footprints tell what direction we are going and quite often to a place for us to feed or find rest or shelter. Don't be discouraged. Someday when we stand before our Father, we will see what effect our life has had on others. I encourage anyone posting on here or other forums to do so AFTER a time of prayer for guidance. | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 200 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Randy, it's like the words that you have conveyed went straight to my heart. Just recently I told a friend that I have been worried about my words destroying "a little ones" faith. Taking there joy and happiness and causing them to stumble. http://www.religionnewsblog.com/19142/religion-trends-3 I never really considered my self as a trail blazer. A pathfinder if you will, but when I reflect on my journey in the past ten years I see I have been just that for some. I have led some to the Twelve Tribes, some to Rose Creek Village and God forbid, I may have taken some down the path to atheism. When I think of it in your terms, it seems like I'm a fearless, lumbering old stag who has not stayed to the well worn game trails and have gone foraging for spiritual food and badly needed shelter for my soul. Not all the provisions I found were good, but some were very good. The thing is, I never thought about the possibility of others following my tracks and the circumstances and consequences I may have led them into. I feel guilty. I now see the different trails I have blazed and realize that at each respite I have called to others and proclaimed "come taste how good it is!" only to find unmovable pride and move on to search again for that peace I so desperately need. Now I feel that I have come to a barren box canyon and need to back-track for awhile to get my bearings once again. Many here have seen and followed my continuing saga that swings tumultuously from sinner to saint and back again. I know I have driven my family and some of my best friends insane with my antics not to mention what it does to my own psyche. I always run into problems when I let my "self" get in the way... "So shall you find favor, good understanding, and high esteem in the sight [or judgment] of God and man. Lean on, trust in, and be confident in God with all your heart and mind and do not rely on your own insight or understanding. In all your ways know, recognize, and acknowledge Him, and He will direct and make straight and plain your paths." It's easier said then done but I must try with all my heart to get my "self" out of the equation. This equation also must be void of current social, peer and academic pressure... Pray for me... | ||
| truth_seeker Junior Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 41 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
"If this is what The Father wants of us then living in community where I was told everyone there owns everything equally, then are they not taking possession and not living as caretakers of His possessions?" David Derush explained to under_grace on factnet that members of the twelve tribes are merely stewards of possessions at any given time. "If we are truly servants to our Father, then He is the one who owns us and the decision-making should be His. If we humble ourselves to total submission by taking ourselves out of our lives and givimg Him full control, there is nothing arrogant in us because we are merely letting Him have all the responsibilty for and Glory fgrom our existance. Then we are total Servants." "Are ANY OF US able to live such a humble life?" Randy, I think we can have faith that all of us are "able," because Yahshua was human, and he proved he was able to "die daily to the flesh and be taken out of the equation" so that rather than his own will be done, his father's will would be done, which is what I have learned to pray for as well, from the wonderful teacher, Yahshua. | ||
| unknownunsure Junior Member Username: unknownunsure Post Number: 29 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 71.49.198.243 |
Truth_seeker. I won't dispute that some In the Twelve Tribes may look at themselves as stewarts, but I was also told by some that they like the arrangement because they had little to give up and now own equal share of all of Twelve Tribe properties. I am not disagreeing with David Derush, I am just saying that is the attitude of some in Community living (TT or others). "Are ANY OF US able to live such a humble life?" Retorical question for us to examine ourselves. Just asking ourselves this question and looking at our lives is a humbling experience. | ||
| unknownunsure Junior Member Username: unknownunsure Post Number: 30 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 71.49.198.243 |
For some reason I can't post under my ID, it says Ghost in the Machine but it let me post under my niece's ID Randy | ||
| whereto2 New member Username: whereto2 Post Number: 12 Registered: 4-2007 Posted From: 68.245.215.69 |
wow , very interesting to see randy standing outside the gate slinging judgement at 'some' in the twelve tribes... clearly this site has lead him as it has many others far astray... Mar 10:28 Then Peter began to say unto him, Lo, we have left all, and have followed thee. Mar 10:29 And Jesus answered and said, Verily I say unto you, There is no man that hath left house, or brethren, or sisters, or father, or mother, or wife, or children, or lands, for my sake, and the gospel's, Mar 10:30 But he shall receive an hundredfold now in this time, houses, and brethren, and sisters, and mothers, and children, and lands, with persecutions; and in the world to come eternal life. who would not like this 'arrangement' ? in the twelve tribes it is actually lived out... they dont call it the living word for nothing... there is NO amount of wealth or family that anyone could leave that could be considered too great to give up... all of it is 'too little' .... | ||
| truth_seeker Junior Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 42 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Well whereto2, you are correct, but I certainly understand Randy's struggle, he is a rich man. Not that I caim to know God's will, but maybe it would be better served by us prayerfully encouraging Randy, rather than judging him. There is something that holds us back too, it may not be wealth, but it is surely something we must consider very difficult to give up as well. Do you suppose we could be humble enough to acknowledge we are still not humble enough to surrender our lives and everything we have to Yahshua? It is a humbling experience to take an honest look at ourselves, and as your name asks, ponder where to... | ||
| randyspenser New member Username: randyspenser Post Number: 4 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.49.198.243 |
Where2, I have taken the time to read your entries on Factnet. It is very interesting to see you sitting on the other side of a computer slinging judgement at me. You assume "clearly this site has lead him as it has many others far astray...". "who would not like this 'arrangement' ? in the twelve tribes it is actually lived out... they dont call it the living word for nothing... there is NO amount of wealth or family that anyone could leave that could be considered too great to give up... all of it is 'too little' ...." Then may we ASSUME you are now a member? If not, and you are seeking, then why judge me for the same uncommitment you are living. What is the Scripture " He that knoweth to do right and doeth it not, to him it is sin"? If I had not become ill, I would have continued to visit the communities and possibly would have been willing to join. I have always cared deeply for Daveed and Shelem and others there. When do you hear me critical of them. If I ask questions it does NOT mean I am "standing outside the gate slinging judgement at 'some' in the twelve tribes". I will NOT follow anyone blindly and asking questions does not mean malice or dislike. After reviewing your posts on Factnet, Where2, I hope you are not a respresentative of the Twelve Tribes. I would not be willing to become part of anything that attacks people constantly the way you do on here. You are totally different than anyone I met in the Communities and frankly, your attitude and judgements would make me NOT want to visit if I thought all were like you. You are doing more to destroy the desire to learn more about the Twelve Tribes on here than you are helping. If you noticed in my previous posts with Nabash, I was speaking of the questions going through MY mind. Self examination, Where2. Even in the Christian world there are those who "brag" they have the answers. I am asking, is that pride. If I question definitions of "possessions", that does not make it an attack. It means I am asking questions going through my mind. These are rhetorical questions. If I question man's need to find "the meaning of life" I am including MY search. If you really knew me you would know I am NOT a judgemental person, where others are concerned but I am very judgemental person when it comes to examining my own life. "who would not like this 'arrangement' ? " I would not like this arrangements if my life were to controlled by being made to feel guilty or not being able to be sure of what I was surrendering to. | ||
| truth_seeker Junior Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 43 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
Randy, I am sure you have discussed with the twelve tribes at greater length than I the practical implications of giving up all your possessions and sharing all things in common in the community, and the conclusions you have drawn from such conversations are what they are. But now, if I may, I would like to leave you with a rhetorical question: In the book of Acts, where the church is modeled by believers sharing all things in common, were they taking possession and not living as caretakers of His possessions? | ||
| randyspenser New member Username: randyspenser Post Number: 5 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.49.198.243 |
Truth_seeker, "In the book of Acts, where the church is modeled by believers sharing all things in common, were they taking possession and not living as caretakers of His possessions?" If that is where their heart is (and that is a question I wanted answered, I can definitely accept that concept. That was one of my unanswered questions. Thank you. | ||
| truth_seeker Junior Member Username: truth_seeker Post Number: 44 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.140.188.26 |
I know what you mean, Randy, I have many unanswered questions too, and when it comes to matters of the heart, I believe such answers will only be revealed by spending time living in the twelve tribes community. I'm glad you are feeling better, and I hope for your continued healing. Be well, Truth_seeker | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 201 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Randy... Im really glad your here.... I too use this place as a "sounding board" and a place to listen to "myself". A friend couldnt understand why I look for feedback here with a bunch of ex-cult members... I told her I AM an ex-cult member! Thats why! Drunks go to AA! Where better to communicate then where they speak your own language? I know your not an ex-cult member but you have the heart of God just as King David did! I know you have a heart for the hurting, the searching, the damaged... If the TT or the TT apologists want to get scriptural then how do they explain those who were not asked or required of relinquishing steward ship of all their possessions? I can quote scriptures all day! Acts 4:34 There were no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles' feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had need. Now what qualifies one as an apostle?Does the self proclaimed "Yoneq" qualify? If Paul could be an apostle after Jesus arose, people wonder why the apostleship cannot continue. First, there remains the problem that the Bible speaks of twelve apostles. Second, no one today can serve as an eyewitness to Jesus. Third, all who were selected as apostles were chosen by Jesus. No method is recorded in the Bible for the training of new apostles. In fact, Paul's argument that he was an apostle rested on the fact that he was not trained or selected by men (Galatians 1:11-12). Fourth, there is a distinct lack of proof that men today are apostles. Where is the evidence of signs which prove apostleship? A notable sign was the ability to pass on the gifts of the Spirit by the laying on of the apostles' hands (Acts 8:18). Paul even showed this ability (II Timothy 1:6). Today we have claims of such an ability, but there has been no proof. Finally, Paul called himself an apostle born out of due time (I Corinthians 15:8). Think on what this implies. There was a season when apostles were selected. Paul was an unusual case. He was an exception to the rule because he came later than the other apostles. If apostles were to continue to appear, then Paul's case would not have been unusual. He would not have been born out of due time. Obviously, there was a limited season for apostles to be on the earth. God warned us that there would be false apostles. Their deeds would demonstrate them to be false (II Corinthians 14:13-15). When tested, they would be shown as false apostles (Revelation 2:2). When a man falsely claims apostleship, he does so to gain authority with the church. By claiming to be an apostle, he claims the right to teach his own doctrine and that doctrine will necessarily conflict with the proven doctrine already delivered by the apostles (Galatians 1:6-10). Hence, we are warned to test every spirit (I John 4:1). Just because a man claims to be an apostle doesn't make it so. (Message edited by nabashalam on August 28, 2007) | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 202 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
And you know what Randy? If you were to give up all your $, land, farms and businesses to the TT...do you realise you would have no say what was done with it? " I will NOT follow anyone blindly and asking questions" and you couldnt question their decisions or you would be considered rebellious and unsubmissive to your brothers and questioning God directly!!! You would be "cut-off" and remain apostate until you repented with tears and guilt of being "proud" and having "strong" opinions!( no singing, dancing or "holding up Holy hands" as everyone else prayed, but you still would have to be at every gathering to publicly feel the shame of being "cut-off") Also, you wouldnt see any of your labors or possessions used to help the needy as you do now! It would all be used to "build up the Body" which of course is the TT (not the unsaved "heathen Gentiles")and only the TT, and everything would go to the coffers of Yoneq and the "Big Boys in New England" where they could decide what property or pet project they want to buy! I pray that God leads you to start that community of healing for the "damaged souls" that the TT and other groups like it have produced and left in their prideful wake. You see a few here and there are many other boards on this site where there are others from other "cults" looking for healing, for shelter, for peace... | ||
| randyspenser New member Username: randyspenser Post Number: 6 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 71.49.198.243 |
Truth_seeker, If you have the opportunity,please email me at randyspenser@yahoo.com for private conversation. | ||
| mozelle New member Username: mozelle Post Number: 2 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.7.232.240 |
Actually, I read your post Naba, and said, "Well, duh. Me either. I would never fork over my family, my $ and my home to someone who asked me to follow them blindly." Unless, of course it was God Himself. For Him, my life and nothing less! But, Yoneq?...a far cry... Community serving community, that's the best we've got until He comes. Go out and love someone today! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vr3x_RRJdd4 please watch it | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 215 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
 | ||
| mozelle New member Username: mozelle Post Number: 3 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.7.232.240 |
yup, me 2 | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1686 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
As I said, I use this discussion group as a sounding board...Rants can be very healing! Talking a lot about something that bothers you, is a pretty good sign that you've got something huge, and profoundly liberating, to learn. That is if you can catch yourself, turn within, and yearn for illumination. | ||
| sabbathkeeper Member Username: sabbathkeeper Post Number: 79 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 64.24.150.134 |
Thanks for your last post...I apologize to ALL for a couple nights ago!!!!  | ||
| nabashalam Senior Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 1694 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Ah! But my dear sabbathkeeper, always remember... "En Vino Veritas"!!! |
