| Author | Message | ||
     bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 428 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
Another poster said, "But no you three are on this cult awareness forum everyday selling and preaching atheism." Even if that were the case, which it is not, do atheists have any less of a right to "preach atheism" than christians do promoting their beleifs? Could someone please direct me to a place on this board where an atheist supports atheism as directly and blatantly as christians do christianity? Since when is asking questions that make people question religious beliefs "promoting atheism?" Is this a christian site where only christians are allowed to profess their love for their god, their Jesus? Thank you. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Intermediate Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 330 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
M(r)(s). bluewater2: Quoting: "Could someone please direct me to a place on this board where an atheist supports atheism as directly and blatantly as christians do christianity?" End quote. Read all the post under the topic Doctrines/belief/Proofs/Religious Practices. Ninety percent are from that religion. Quoting: "do atheists have any less of a right to "preach atheism" than christians do promoting their beleifs?" End quote. The more important question, my dear, is does Christianity have the same rights as your religion. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 430 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
First of all, for the second time, it is Mr. Bluewater. Not that it matters, though, until you call me "my dear." Second, I have no interest in limiting the rights of christians. | ||
| the_apostolic_truth_ministries Intermediate Member Username: the_apostolic_truth_ministries Post Number: 331 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 12.217.145.168 |
Thank you, sweetie! | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 433 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
Is that you sense of humor at work or are you trying to be insulting? | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 358 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.5.210 |
"Thank you, sweetie"! ATM That was too cute..ATM - I am waiting for you to post another pentecostal quote..not sure what is taking so long.. Nite-nite R Blue- don't be so serious all the time;) | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 434 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
I know when to be serious. | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 256 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
"Could someone please direct me to a place on this board where an atheist supports atheism as directly and blatantly as christians do christianity? Since when is asking questions that make people question religious beliefs "promoting atheism?" " I was wondering this myself. I presume if you raise enough issues with religion to make someone think twice, the default position would be atheism. It hardly seems like encouraging people to think rationally and have honest discussions could be considered evangelizing atheism. | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 368 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.113.119 |
I appreciate these discussions. I am always learning a new point of view. There is absolutely nothing wrong with questioning the ideas of any religion....but it is important not to tease another person's belief by calling their god-that "guy on the stick" or calling the atheist worm food without any morals..Not all christians are whack cases and not all atheist are Pol Pot! I suppose when talking face to face people are more respectful- then say factnet where they can slur off whatever they feel without remorse...R (Message edited by rachelengland on August 29, 2007) | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 461 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
"I was wondering this myself. I presume if you raise enough issues with religion to make someone think twice, the default position would be atheism." And that is the crux of the problem. When faced with the inconsistancies of religion, expecially Christianity, it seems easier to attack the questioner than entertain the idea of a change in beliefs. | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 257 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
"Not all christians are whack cases and not all atheist are Pol Pot! " Agreed, But look a little deeper at those atheist killers for a minute http://www.geocities.com/paulntobin/hitlerstalin.html "It is true that Stalin, Mao Zedong and Pol Pot, were all atheists. But the primary influences that led to their atrocities were not atheism per se but their dogmatic Marxism and communist ideas." "One could make a valid claim that since Stalin attended a Russian orthodox seminary (from 1894 to 1899) as a teenager in Tiflis, the dogmatic black or white outlook of the world influenced his subsequent actions." "Hitler was born and baptized as a Roman Catholic. He served mass as a young boy and actually contemplated becoming an abbot. He never publicly repudiated his Catholicism, nor did he ever cease paying his dues." Interesting? Apparently the Khmer Rouge under Pol Pot even adopted elements of Buddhism during the early years. Later they outlawed religion, but they also outlawed all minority culture, jewelry, music, or anything else indicative of individuality. So religion (Buddhism in this case) being outlawed was not so much a result of Pol Pot being an atheist, as it was of him being a totalitarian dictator. He was opposed to any individual identity or any power structure other than his own and this, not so much his lack of belief in god led to the deaths in Cambodia. This demand for absolute conformity is what is killing people in Korea today, not the fact that there is no religion. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 462 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
I have yet to see any of these so-called "atheist murderers" running around beating people over the head with the atheist bible, let alone even mention atheism as their driving influence. As you rightly pointed out, it is more likely the dogmatic upbringing of their youths that created the environment where the world is black or white. | ||
| jeff_franklin Intermediate Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 500 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
It is very easy to go on the defensive of one's beliefs when those on the offensive use ridicule, name calling and direct insults of those who believe in God. You can't whitewash your attacks to make them seem to be mere questions when contrary evidence is there for all to see. Classic example from above: "It hardly seems like encouraging people to think rationally and have honest discussions could be considered evangelizing atheism." Sooooooo according to YOU people who believe in God are NOT rational? Do not think rationally? Believers in God are irrational???? That is insulting, uncalled for name calling and blatant intolerance. If you were a rational person you would realize it and change your rhetoric. But the reality is atheism is NOT a tolerant religion. It is a religion full of paranoia. So afraid that someone will say the words "God" or "Jesus" around them. Totally unwarranted fears, fostering conspiracy theories that somehow school prayer will be reintroduced into the school systems or our government buildings. Totally unfounded fears = paranoia. Think out of the box. Lose the canned atheist rhetoric that does nothing but ridicule and maybe you might be listened to. Other than that you will continue to be offensive, not questioning but solely attacking. No matter which course you take you are still preaching atheism to us. Your protestations otherwise are irrational and delusional. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 501 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Nice little atheist link you gave us there. What else would anyone expect from an atheist to spew except sweeping under the rug atheist propaganda. "It wasn't atheism that taught them to kill... blah, blah, blah..... utter garbage. Utter denial. From the home page of the link you provided. "Hello, welcome to my website. This site presents the "fruits" of my intellectual journey from being a believing Christian into a convinced atheist. The journey was tumultuous, sometimes exasperating, but always interesting. The journey started in 1988, and it continues to this day. The freedom to think for yourself, to live life to the fullest, to be a happy and moral human being have been the rewards of this journey." Hardly an unbiased source. Just an atheist propagandist preacher. An apologist for mass murderers. Lies. Nice little job of sweeping atheist murders under the rug. Millions in of Christians, Moslems and Buddhists China, Tibet, Sinkiang, Manchuria and Monglia were beaten over the head with Mao's little Red book before they were herded into slavery or executed. http://speakingoffaith.publicradio.org/programs/ancheemin/index.shtml Your propaganda hits the pages of factnet with a big thud! You will NEVER be able to disassociate your religion from the millions upon millions of people murdered by atheists. Never! | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 259 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
Franklin "Sooooooo according to YOU people who believe in God are NOT rational? Do not think rationally? Believers in God are irrational???? " I didn't say that. You did. Remember, you duke it out with people who believe in the same god you do every day on factnet. They just don't believe the same way you do. And yes, we all know that religion was outlawed under communist regimes. Nobody's sweeping anything under any rug, only to take a closer look at the facts. The correlation between genocide and atheism is not as airtight as you like to portray it. There have been many genocidal campaigns launched in the name of religion. The only real difference is atheists seem to be more efficient at it. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 463 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
Franklin has had it explained to him many times that atheism is not the driving force behind the acts of lousy people and rather than showing us where we are wrong by using logic and reason as well as some other sources for his claims, he chimes in with the same old crap. Come on, Franklin. You can do better than that. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 502 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
The heretics who I battle with on factnet are either racist and or man worshippers. Both tenets of irrationality. You can't have it both ways. Standard atheist propaganda you just wrote above says those who claim to believe in God murder because of their beliefs in God. Lie! Standard atheist propaganda you just wrote above is that murders committed by atheists is because they were not true atheists and were influenced by their previous belief in God. Lie! Total whitewashing hogwash. Total false revisions of history. No matter how many times you wash the white rug you sweep atheist mass murders under the the red blood stains still keep seeping through. Your propaganda is rigged all in the atheist favor. Your saying that there is no God is a lie. Your saying that atheist murderers are not true atheists is a lie. When an eternal human soul is not regarded as such but instead just future wormfood, basically cattle to be slaughtered when inconvenient then atheists are quick to rationalize murder and atheist apologists are quick to sweep it under the rug. "Death solves all problems - no man, no problem." Joseph Stalin | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 260 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
"Your saying that atheist murderers are not true atheists is a lie. " I am saying atheist murderers aren't necessarily murderers because they are atheists. It's not surprising that the nuance has escaped you. As a believer in god, it has to make you wonder why he would allow such a thing to happen in the first place if he is in fact decent and exists. If atheism is the driving force behind murder and genocide, how do you explain the various crusades, witch hunts, burning of heretics, etc throughout recorded history? Or the Iraqi civil war already in progress? Maybe Stalin got his managerial style from the old testament. You know, the part where god wipes out every one on the earth because he is jealous for attention? PS, as Jack said in As Good As It Gets, "People who speak in metaphors should shampoo my crotch". | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 503 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
And as Jack said "You want the truth?" "You can't handle the truth!" The truth is there is a God. Only ones who don't believe in God are just a handful who are too much in love with themselves to have love for anyone else much less God. There you go again. Trying to have it both ways. Religious beliefs are the sole motivating factor in people's lives. Not politics, not lifestyle, not skin, eye, or hair color, not choice of vehicles we drive...... A belief in God or a non belief in God is the source of all of our perspective on life and our actions in it. Those who believe in God have reasons and propensity to try to live righteously, peaceably in the world, to obey God. Those who don't believe, even though they may pretend to, do not try to live righteously, peaceably in the world nor obey God. Oh now you reach down into your cliche bag and pull out the ol' there is no God because God would not let evil happen...... Just as irrational as when Dawkins says it. Duh!"! Free will. Humanity can either prosper in peace and freedom or utterly destroy itself. God's blessing or satan's curse. Just depends on what we put into our minds. Good or evil. God will overcome evil in our lives when we believe and ask. You do neither so evil is all you see. If you don't ask you don't receive. If you would stand in prayer with us more good could be done with God's help. Collectively in the Spirit humans can destroy THEMSELVES! Sodom and Gomorrah. The Great Flood. There are spiritual laws of the universe just as real as the laws of physics. You reap what you sow. What goes around comes around. Many Asians call it karma. That is a fact in everyone's life. Is the Governor, Judge, Jury, Prosecutor, Deputy, Jailor responsible when a convicted murderer is executed? No. Is God responsible when people become so evil they destroy themselves? No. Spiritual laws. Do unto others as you would have the do unto you. Love your Neighbor. Don't do the crime if you can't pay the fine or do the time. These are all natural, spiritual laws that even you know we must all go by or we all suffer the consequences. Spiritual laws is part of the glue that holds the universe together. Without them humanity would have destroyed themselves thousands of years ago. God's intervention and love prevented that. Repentance and Forgiveness from God wipes the slate clean making us reborn in the spirit. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 504 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
And then the ol' crusades! Dug deep in your bag for that one. Haven't heard that one in a while. Moslems conquering and then murdering Christians and Jews in the Holy Land. No more pilgrimages to the birthplace of Christ allowed. All European trade with the east suddenly stopped. Economic and religious reasons to liberate the Holy land. When mentioning the Crusades we are talking of thousands killed versus the millions on millions killed by atheists in the 20th century. The mass murders at Constantinople and Acre and many other cities were horrendous. King Richard the Lion Hearted was as much of a butcher as Saladin. Most of the horrors of the Crusades were more economic than for a pseudo religious purpose. Conquering, raping, looting, murdering of a city, a kingdom were commonplace all over the world from the beginning of time. Many atheists back then too. Nothing unique attributed to just Christian Crusades. That's how all of the political boundaries were established in Europe until the 1990s. What was the real underlying motivating factor to the Crusades? Greed. Lust. What does the Old Testament and the New Testament say about Greed and Lust? They are sins. Evil. Greed and lust separate one's soul from God. What set of morals does an atheist dictator follow? None. You want the truth? You can't handle the truth. Like Tom Cruise you are too much in love with yourself to see the truth. You can't see the truth because your image in the mirror you're admiring blinds you from the truth. | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 262 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
"What goes around comes around. Many Asians call it karma. That is a fact in everyone's life. " Then why did Pol Pot die of old age? Let me guess - he'll get his in the afterlife? Unacceptable. The fact is, god will not overcome evil. He (presumably) sits back and lets it befall christian and heathen alike with equal random complacency. Believers often attribute a promotion at work or buying a new house or car as being a blessing from god. It makes me sick to think they are so stupendously self centered. As if god were too busy to stop that tsunami, but had time to make sure they got a corner office, or a nice car stereo or whatever. What hubris.} | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 465 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
"What was the real underlying motivating factor to the Crusades? Greed. Lust." "Most of the horrors of the Crusades were more economic than for a pseudo religious purpose." Same with Pol Pot and the rest of your DICKtator whipping boys. Remain blind to the truth as to why these things happen and you will be part of the problem if it happens again. Goober. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 505 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
I'm certainly not blind to the evils of greed and lust. What does the creed of atheism say about greed and lust? What is atheism's moral code concerning greed and lust? Dead silence from Larry, Darryl and their other brother Darryl. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 466 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
"What does the creed of atheism say about greed and lust? What is atheism's moral code concerning greed and lust?" I don't know of any atheist creed, but I am aware of the ability to take anything too far, including greed and lust, or religiousity. It's all about balance, Franklin. Greed in the form of capitalism in the right amounts, creates profit. Lust in the form of desire in the right amount is a vital part of any relationship, goofy. Don't be so black or white, all or none. Find balance in your life. What does the bible say about balance? | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 507 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
 Oh I have plenty of balance in my life. Just about the way I like it and hope it pleases God. I have balance because I understand the need for moral codes to create balance in life and recognize the Creator of all life. That is balance. Wish the same was for you. Your attacking theism here everyday and your intolerance of God's creations shows you lack a lot of balance in your life. | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 263 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
Right, atheism doesn't say anything about greed or lust because atheism is not a coherent set of rules. Repeat after me : It is simply the lack of belief in a god. That implies no rules or regulations, dues, leaders, or any of the other trappings of religion. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 467 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
Let's see, I have been an atheist for about 54 years now and I must have murdered 700 people and robbed dozens of banks and raped 100's of women by now according to you. If I have not, why not? | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 264 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
Yeah, That's a good point. The fact of it is most christians don't come any closer to living up to the tenets in the bible than we do. There's a bunch of pride,greed, neighbor's wife coveting going on in the christian community. We also shall know them by their fruits, and from the looks of things, it's time to clean out the fridge. Please christians, I know some of you are genuine people, just as some of you know that we are too. But you've got some people running around here giving you a real bad name. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 508 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Please atheists, I know some of you are genuine people, just as some of you know that we are too. But you've got some people running around here giving you a real bad name. | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 369 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.5.80 |
oh no you didn't!!! Did you just turn those words around there franklin..lol You are all so predictible...haven't we been having these same conversations for like 2 years now...hmmm and who is usually the real voice of reason... Either you uys love each other or you need more activities at work.  | ||
| searchlight86 Member Username: searchlight86 Post Number: 92 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 71.106.99.85 |
God will clean out the fridge of 'Christendom' along with non-Christendom at His chosen time, but it will be of those who don't have a living relationship with Christ. The vital issue is not who uses Christ's name (mostly counterfeit today as Christ predicted), but whether one has a living relationship with Him or not: "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is likened unto a man which sowed good seed in his field: But while men slept, his enemy came and sowed tares among the wheat, and went his way. But when the blade was sprung up, and brought forth fruit, then appeared the tares also. So the servants of the householder came and said unto him, Sir, didst not thou sow good seed in thy field? from whence then hath it tares? He said unto them, An enemy hath done this. The servants said unto him, Wilt thou then that we go and gather them up? But he said, Nay; lest while ye gather up the tares, ye root up also the wheat with them. Let both grow together until the harvest: and in the time of harvest I will say to the reapers, Gather ye together first the tares, and bind them in bundles to burn them: but gather the wheat into my barn ... He answered and said unto them, He that soweth the good seed is the Son of man; The field is the world; the good seed are the children of the kingdom; but the tares are the children of the wicked [one]; The enemy that sowed them is the devil; the harvest is the end of the world; and the reapers are the angels. As therefore the tares are gathered and burned in the fire; so shall it be in the end of this world" (Matt. 14:24-30, 37-40). Christ predicted 'Christendom' would grow to an unnatural size, and be increasingly corrupted before His return. In a parable (of the Sower) preceding the following, the birds were identified as the agents of Satan, who now reside comfortably in institutions called by His name: "Another parable put he forth unto them, saying, The kingdom of heaven is like to a grain of mustard seed, which a man took, and sowed in his field: Which indeed is the least of all seeds: but when it is grown, it is the greatest among herbs, and becometh a tree, so that the birds of the air come and lodge in the branches thereof" (Matt. 13:31-32) And His pure, holy Word would be pervasively twisted and insidiously mixed with evil to corrupt the good news of the Gospel and appeal to our fleshly natures instead (leaven is one of the most consistent symbols of evil): "Another parable spake he unto them; The kingdom of heaven is like unto leaven, which a woman took, and hid in three measures of meal, till the whole was leavened" (Matt. 13:33). "For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears; And they shall turn away [their] ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables" (II Tim. 4:3-4). (Message edited by searchlight86 on August 29, 2007) | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 469 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
Franklin just needs some new material. His blind rage has robbed him of all of his creativity. Rather than stay on topic with his points about greed and lust, he resorts to his favorite mechanism of using other peoples words. What keeps me from killing, robbing and raping, Franklin? Come on, Franklin. You can do better than that. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 509 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
What keeps you from killing, robbing, and raping is the same thing that keeps me form doing the same. Our God burned his laws into our hearts. We have no choice but to obey those laws. Not obeying those laws leads to our own destruction. Smart people know that. Good people thank God for creating such order in the universe. Just because you do not acknowledge those laws does not mean they don't exist. | ||
| fatherofaking Intermediate Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 264 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.255.159.145 |
No moral system can rest solely on authority. A. J. Ayer, Humanist Outlook (1910 - 1989) | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 470 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
"Our God burned his laws into our hearts." So, why bother with Christianity or religion in general? Why even acknowledge the existance of god if the "code" is already burned in? Is god's ego so fragile that he needs some kind of acknowledgment other than good works? | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 512 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
We gather together to fellowship with others who know of God's laws. Like minded individuals. Sorry but people who don't recognize God or His laws freak us out. Your claiming that there is no good or evil makes you a social outcast. Not someone that would be hired to babysit or chaperone. Your words, your actions tell us more than anything about you. So by having fellowship with other believers in God we become a religion of believers in God. Since we all have free will and are freethinkers, living in different locations we all have minor variations in our beliefs in God. We seek like minded believers in God to fellowship with. That is called sects and denominations. What you call some kind of rigid religiousness is very free and liberating to believers in God. If that is not your cup of tea then too bad for you. We could all just as well worship out of gratitude our God in our homes. Thank God for His blessings. But no, God's blessings are so magnificent we want to tell the world about it. People who believe in God have nothing to apologize to you for. We will continue to worship God as we please. So you might as well get over it and go sulk in your corner like as if you weren't invited to the party. What you seem to do best. But you have been invited to the party since the day you were born. Not your cup of tea? Oh well. We were not born to please you. We hope we please God. If you are not pleased too bad for you. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 471 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
"Your claiming that there is no good or evil makes you a social outcast. Not someone that would be hired to babysit or chaperone." If by good or evil you mean right or wrong, I can guarantee you that have at least as good of a grip on that as you do. "So by having fellowship with other believers in God we become a religion of believers in God. Since we all have free will and are freethinkers, living in different locations we all have minor variations in our beliefs in God." You mean like how some of these clubs believe that Jesus is a false prophet and some actually idolize him? "What you call some kind of rigid religiousness is very free and liberating to believers in God." I know what you mean. Some people just do better with everything laid out for them so that they don't have to rely on their own wisdom to get through the day. I have employees that do much better with a written policies and procedures manual in their hands. "But no, God's blessings are so magnificent we want to tell the world about it." I think there would be much less resistance to christianity and the other more aggressive religions if they did more to lead by example than tell people that "the only way to heaven is but through me". | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 513 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Well that sure is Dawkins' opinion. You are right in lockstep with your Messiah. Good job. You bucking to the atheist Bishop for your district? I have told you why people believe what they do. One of many reasons is that they have the freedom to do so. And yet you refuse to allow them that freedom. You are worse than a missionary going to the heart of Africa and poo pooing their culture found there. You're wanting to change everything about the way that believers in God live, breathe and think. You bought into the atheist crap and you are one of their most intolerant zealots. You've made it your mission to severely attack anyone who believes in God with that bag of dirty names you call us. How is a Christian any different in their belief that Christ is the way to heaven versus a Jew who believes that goys go to hell or a Moslem one who believes that if we do not follow Mohammed then we don't go to heaven or a Hindu or Buddhist believing we will never reach enlightenment if we don't follow their ways and will be reincarnated into a lower animal form..... or in your case an atheist who is totally intolerant of anyone who believes in God because we do not live our lives the way you want. What's the difference? I'll tell you the difference is because much to your regret you live in America which is predominately Christian and not North Korea which is predominately atheist. Forced atheism. If you lived in Tel Aviv you would be constantly attacking Judaism. You are just a miserable, paranoid person. We ain't changing our beliefs to suit you. They are not intolerant. We'll accept someone who has spat in the eye of God their whole life. All are accepted. Your wrong ways of living up to this point will not separate you from us. You will be forgiven and accepted. Your choice. But don't act like you haven't been invited to the party because that is a lie. You are advocating a one world religion. YOURS. Ain't going to happen. Your behavior is atrociously intolerant. You have nothing to offer the readers of factnet other than your arrogance and your bigotry. I do not think you have as good of a handle as to what the difference is between right or wrong is. If you did you would not do what you here daily on these pages. You leave a trail of bigoted, bullying, offensive poopy everywhere you go. You have no respect for anyone on factnet as well as nobody on this planet. That is wrong. I can see it why can't you? Simple answer is because you do not know God. That explains it all. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 473 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
Riiiiiiiiiiight. | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 265 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
There is a certain masturbatory quality to Franklin's rants. It's like Jazz music - meandering, improvisational and without structure. He's the Miles Davis of whining. When he shows up on a thread, all the other christians flee in shame - I wouldn't want to be associated with him either i guess. Keep up the good works Franklin, god needs your help. We'd have him on the ropes if you weren't here. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 474 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
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| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 515 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
RIIIIIIIIIGHT!!!!!!!  | ||
| marie New member Username: marie Post Number: 2 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.255.115.6 |
Food for thought: I'm just a drive by poster and I haven't read this whole thread. I have however read several posts on other threads by the posters here. I do believe the "atheists" have every right to question our beliefs. I find it distressing and disappointing that most of us, as Christians are wholly incapable of presenting reasoned, non-emotional arguments in response to their questions. The judgment and condemnation, not to mention name calling and downright meanness of many of the "Christian" postings here is disgraceful. I think we would all be better served by being intellectually honest. Christians have nothing to fear from logic and reason. Holy men and women throughout the last 2 millenia have dedicated their lives to these disciplines. It is pure laziness on our part to not avail ourselves of the fruits of their labors. Well, okay, pride too for those of you who think true Christian teaching and thought only began in the last 20 - 400 years. I have truly enjoyed the exchanges between trained observer and egk(?) on the other threads. I think that is the level of debate we should all aspire to. Blessings to all, Marie | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 516 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Good thoughts Marie. I look forward to reading your engagement in discussion with these atheists who think all believers in God are delusional.  | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 266 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
" I do believe the "atheists" have every right to question our beliefs. I find it distressing and disappointing that most of us, as Christians are wholly incapable of presenting reasoned, non-emotional arguments in response to their questions. The judgment and condemnation, not to mention name calling and downright meanness of many of the "Christian" postings here is disgraceful. I think we would all be better served by being intellectually honest. Christians have nothing to fear from logic and reason." Bravo } | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 518 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Yes, your cliched textbook tactics are designed for those who are willing to be your sacrificial lambs to your ravenous onslaughts. Now be honest and tell Marie what you think of her thought processes and her belief in Christ. Divide and conquer is another one of your predictable procedures to further your atheist agenda. I've yet to hear from other atheists other than the normal 3 or 4 as to your intolerant, vicious tactics here. | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 267 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
"wholly incapable of presenting reasoned, non-emotional arguments"} | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 520 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Marie, sources have told me that you are my old nemesis who sides with racists and now atheists because you hate me so much. Getagrip of yourself and stop playing games with your roustabout multiple ips. I know bluewater has your email address and so I assume he contacted you for support to diss me. So here you are. A Ken Copeland/Robb Thompson heretic pretending to support atheist trolls. The reason you don't post much is probably you can't keep up with all of your passwords. | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 269 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
Ho Lee •••• a conspiracy! | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 522 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Well all I can do is go by my trusted sources. | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 371 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
 Maybe this is all a big conspiracy! muhahahaha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 475 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
"I know bluewater has your email address and so I assume he contacted you for support to diss me." I guarantee that is not true. I suggest you retract that because it is an outright fabrication on your part. You have no trusted sources. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 476 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
I find it interesting, Franklin, how you can take sound advice from a fellow christian like marie and turn it into a paranoid rant about a consipiracy. I think that you really do have Paranoid Personality Disorder. Please, stop making baseless accusations about me having someone's email and caring enough to email them to attack you. I don't care that much or have those resources. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 523 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
I do not consider getagrip to be a fellow Christian. A copeland heretic yes. Christian no. Oh yes you do have those resources there at factnet. As you can see I thought it was legit at first until someone else tipped me off. And when it comes to atheist cultic "ends justify the means" tactics everyone should be made aware of the fact there is no bounds as to the lowest level you will go to further your atheist agenda. Including calling all who believe in God delusional and paranoid. The dirtier and nastier you get the lower you sink in everyone's eyes. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 478 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
Dude, I promise you that you are way out of line here. I have nothing to do with factnet and you are really, really, wrong. Take a couple of steps back, please. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 525 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
That's what I've been telling you all along. Back up! Smell the roses God has created for us all. Be tolerant. Be respectful. Why is that so hard for you?????? | ||
| rachelengland Intermediate Member Username: rachelengland Post Number: 372 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 4.159.5.93 |
Maybe we should all.....take a step back. We need to be careful how we treat each other-even on the internet. R | ||
| fatherofaking Intermediate Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 268 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.255.159.145 |
Opinions founded on prejudice are always sustained with the greatest of violence. Francis Jeffrey Scottish critic & jurist (1773 - 1850) When the judgment's weak, The prejudice is strong. Kane O'Hara If we were to wake up some morning and find that everyone was the same race, creed and color, we would find some other cause for prejudice by noon. George Aiken A great many people think they are thinking when they are really rearranging their prejudices. William James US Pragmatist philosopher & psychologist (1842 - 1910) http://www.quotationspage.com/quote/29269.html | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 479 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
You crossed the line in your post 520, Franklin. I sent a complaint off to factnet moderator. I can put up with alot from you, but that lie is too much. I gave you a chance to back off. You did not. You can email me your secret source if you want to redeam yourself. You have my email. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 527 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
You like everything rigged your way don't you? You crossed the line years ago when you called Christianity a pox on the planet. Calling my parents child abusers for teaching me about God and taking me to church. Calling me insane. You have always been way over the line. Why you have not been banned years ago is one of the greatest mysteries of the universe. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 480 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
Maybe I have not been banned because I do not lie. I say things that you may or may not agree with, or that may or may not be true. But to the best of my ability, I say what I mean, and mean what I say. Take it or leave it. I think that lying as you do is about as low as you can get. I suggest you share your source with me so that I can see you meant what you said. You place yourself in precarious predicaments. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 528 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
You just lied when you call me a liar. I do not lie. Where have I lied on factnet? No matter how many times and ways you try to cyberbully me I will always tell you and the world that there is a God and He loves us all! Precarious predicaments? Should I expect your fist to come crashing through my computer screen and punch me in the nose?  You have not been banned because of the favoritism factnet shows towards atheists. That's why! That's why factnet has gone away from it's stated purpose and has become a "WHY THE WORLD NEEDS TO BECOME AN ATHEIST JUST LIKE BLUEWATER" website. Such a shame too. Such a better purpose facnet could have. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 482 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
Hey Franklin. If I can show you where you lied, will you admit you were wrong and not post here again? | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 532 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Whatever bully!!! | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 483 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
Is that a yes or a no? Come on, Franklin. Show me where I have lied and I will not post here any longer. Will you do the same? How much clearer can it get? | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 534 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
So far as I am concerned you lie constantly. You lie when you say there is no God. You lie when you say my parents are child abusers because they taught me about God and took me to church. You lie when you say that Christianity is a pox on the planet. You lie when you say that I am insane. You lie. Bye!  | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 484 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
For the record, then, let it be known that anytime that someone says something that Franklin does not agree with, that person is lying. Ok, Franklin, I will let you off the hook. "A lie is a statement made by someone who believes or suspects it to be false, in the expectation that the hearers may believe it. Thus a true statement may be a lie if the speaker thinks it is false. Fictions, though false, are not lies." I meant everything that you attribute to me, therefor they are not lies. I believe them. If you do not like the currently accepted definition of what a lie is, post your problem in the other thread titled "Motivations for redefinition." | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 535 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
That's like your hero's "depends on what your definition of "is" is. or "I did not have sex with that woman". | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 536 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
You're not letting anybody off the hook. Nobody's on the hook. Except you. I'll let you off the hook by leading you to God. Then you'll stop your lying. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 486 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
Show me how my opinions are lies and then . . . . lead away. | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 273 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 71.197.149.229 |
Look how you turned out. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 539 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Show me how my parents are child abusers for teaching me about God and taking me to church. | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 487 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
I don't think that I directly said that YOUR parents were child abusers. I'm sure that they meant well by you. But I DID SAY, in so many words, AND I BELIEVE, that to teach children a religious belief that preaches that their belief system is somehow superior to all of the others out there and condemns those that do not believe as they do, teaching them this before they have a choice to believe what they want, is, to me, child abuse. As I said, your parents probably meant well, but I believe it is wrong to teach children such a hard and inflexible belief system that preaches "The only way to the father is but through me." Period. Show me how I just lied to you. Using an accepted definition, not one you make up. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 540 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Then that means that your parents, probably meaning well, are child abusers too because they taught you an inflexible belief system, atheism, that teaches it is superior to all other beliefs. You did say it directly to me and everyone else who believes in God. My parents taught me about God and took me to church. That is a horrIble insult to me, my parents, all other believers in God and is a LIE! DO THE RIGHT THING AND RETRACT IT! | ||
| fatherofaking Intermediate Member Username: fatherofaking Post Number: 274 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 71.255.159.145 |
who is preaching what? | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 488 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 72.130.156.151 |
First, as I have said many times to you before, my parents never taught me about atheism. Second, even though I told you that I said your parents probably meant well, as most parents do, you choose to get all puffed up about it. You apparently love to feel insulted or you just do not have the capacity to reason. You are taking this christian martyrdom thing a bit too far, I think. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 541 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
There you go again packing more insults on the insults you have already hurled at everyone. Damn right I get angry when someone calls my parents child abusers. Yes your parents did teach you about atheism. Your sly denial doesn't wash. They certainly did not teach you there is a God. They certainly did not teach you respect and tolerance for those who do believe in God. This intense hatred you have for believers of God had to come from somewhere at a very young age. I have a very thick skin, had that before I came to factnet. But I know an insult when I hear or read one and I know how to deal with the ones who hurl them. I have tried to reason with you many many many times before to no avail. Your anti social behavior might be acceptable to those who live your lifestyle but it is not acceptable to me, most of society or a public forum. You can not keep throwing insulting flaming bombs on this site and not expect people to react. You do it for that effect. That is flaming. That is trolling. You have admitted to your guilt of those crimes before. Most choose to ignore you. I do not. I do not tolerate bullies. Never have. I hate your insults and the way you talk to people. I am certainly much more capable to reason than you ever will be. You have continued to demonstrate that it is impossible to reason with bullies like you. You are taking your role as Che Guevera of the Atheist cause too far I know. Grow up! Stop insulting people. Learn respect and tolerance. My parents are not abusers. But there is some kind of abuse that is or was prevalent in your life causing you to act the way you do. You are one scary dude! Either learn to have respect and tolerance for other people and their beliefs or vacate public forums altogether. You desperately need to grow up. Why not try to change now rather than later? There's a public service message on tv about cyberbullying. If you wouldn't say something to someone's face don't write it on the internet. You need to learn that lesson. | ||
| trainedobserver Intermediate Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 356 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.12 |
Your hyperbolic postings suggest that your religion is doing no better at helping you cope with perceived insults than the religion of the Mohammad Cartoon rioters does for them. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 544 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
That's such a laugh t.o. Haven't you called me enough names? You insult the personage of Jesus all the time here. I do not go postal like the muslims in Europe do. That is insulting that you compare me to a murdering muslim. bluewater insulted my parents by calling them child abusers. There is no "perceived" insult at all by you or b.w. You insults are real. You are just an insulting person, period. Whenever your sacred atheism is "questioned" you go ballistic on me like a muslim jihadist. You are always the one who starts it. Your insults are not "perceived". Your insults are real. They come straight out of your mind on to the pages of factnet aimed at me. Grow up little school yard bully. | ||
| trainedobserver Intermediate Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 359 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.12 |
At some point in the future perhaps FACTnet will adopt standards that will result in a better use of the bandwidth than we've been seeing lately. I don't know why this sort of thing is allowed to continue, the "he's entertaining" excuse is lame. I think someone should put you out of your misery by banning your IP. If you can't read it you can't be bothered by it can you? | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 545 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Why a flaming troll like you wasn't banned years ago along with bluewater is definitely a "MIRACLE" for the atheist agenda. I'm sure the owner of this thread sees how you two go from thread to thread picking fights trying to bully Christians off of factnet. You treat anything I have to say the same as you do the words in the Bible. In total hatred and disdain subject to your ridicule. And that is what you want to see. No opposition to your steam roller tactics shoving atheism down everyone's throats here. You've called believers in God every dirty name imaginable. Never any constructive criticism, always destructive. Christians and other believers in God here are actually making headway on these threads in countering cultic thinking. Making public awareness of cults a reality. Despite all of your efforts to hijack this forum into an atheist soapbox for you to preach from. I think the excuse factnet uses to allow you to continue your insulting bigoted attacks on believers in God is lame. You do nothing to further cult awareness. You are a detriment to the cause. Who was it that told you that factnet admin says I was kept here because "he's entertaining" or did you hear this directly yourself. And if so by whom? | ||
| bluewater2 Intermediate Member Username: bluewater2 Post Number: 492 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.42.171.14 |
This is the last time I will engage with you, Franklin. Consider yourself the winner at your type of rhetoric. "I'm sure the owner of this thread sees how you two go from thread to thread picking fights trying to bully Christians off of factnet." The owner of this thread, me, scanned this thread from top to the first post that took the topic into the gutter. Funny, it is YOU. The "entertaining" description was between IHS and I a week or so ago. Go find it. If I ever post to you again, either by accident or on purpose I will self impose a 60 day vacation from this site. PPD, all the way. | ||
| trainedobserver Intermediate Member Username: trainedobserver Post Number: 360 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 198.49.119.12 |
This is the last time I will engage with you, Franklin. I think I'll join you. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 546 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Yep! Good. My type of rhetoric is directed toward your hate speech against believers in God. Just know next time you write hate speech against believers in God I will be on you like a ton of bricks. Ignore that! | ||
| ihavesinned Intermediate Member Username: ihavesinned Post Number: 276 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 64.122.1.158 |
"My type of rhetoric" I've read more compelling stuff scratched into bathroom walls or peed into the snow. And your presence is more like a hemorrhoid than a ton of bricks - although that might be a good way to characterize your intellectual dexterity. I do think the moderator, whoever he is, most likely lets you stay for entertainment value. You have no value as far as fighting cults - your purported reason for being here. I suspect most other posters who address you do so for the same reasons people make funny faces at monkeys at the zoo. I know that's the case for me. You are clearly an embarrassment to the other christians on Factnet, and several of them have said as much. Of course they're not really christians or they would join you in comparing us all to Stalin. What a maroon. | ||
| jeff_franklin Advanced Member Username: jeff_franklin Post Number: 547 Registered: 6-2007 Posted From: 67.9.9.73 |
Thank you ihs! Maroon? That's a new one. More medals to wear on my chest. That's what all of your insults to me are: medals. I know the truth. There is a God. He sent His Son, Jesus Christ to be our Savior. So that all who believe in Him shall not perish but shall have everlasting life. Thank you for the opportunity to write that to you. |
