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     nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 189 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
I went out for coffee with an old friend of mine, "intransition" here on the board(He's not that old!LOL! but we hadn't seen each other for several years) and we had a 3 hour talk...It was great! It was good to talk about the past and the dysfunctions of the TT and also our own dysfunctions, addictions and our need to "belong", to be "social". Our need to be with a "Tribe" of people who loved us and who we could love openly in return. We talked about how the TT probably in their early years was a open, loving place where you could open up and purge yourself of the things inside you that needed to come out without fear the of being "beat down". People probably felt free to express their concerns and opinions and even the "smallest" had a voice and an input. And by this freedom of open communication, things could be addressed and healed therefore creating a "healthy" community! There had to be something in us that desperately needed healing that drew us to the tribes. Sad thing is, not only did this malady not get attended to but more was stacked up and stuffed down on top of that which was already there. So I believe all of us ex-members still have that need,(those old dysfunctions?) that longing. Some of us will try and find and cling to another religious path. Some will hide (some to the point of asceticism) in a new addiction or an old one, be it food, drugs and alcohol, WORK, internet, TV or whatever can distract us from that hole, that longing for fulfillment, that aching for validation and inner peace. I still firmly believe that we as humans cant grasp, comprehend or know the ways of God or His, Hers or Its desires or even if "It" has any! But I can "be still" and let "It" do its job while I do mine. I feel "Our" job is to love (and it's not trying to tear apart, dissect, analyse and interpret "holy books") as much as we can, wherever and however we can and it will be returned in some way or another in this life or the next if there is a next. So if your not sure there is a "next" life then you better "get your licks in" while your sure you can! CARPE DIEM!!!! | ||
| anon_e_mus Junior Member Username: anon_e_mus Post Number: 26 Registered: 5-2005 Posted From: 151.204.204.235 |
David, I found it touching when you spoke of the good things of the old TT's. Do you mean the Yellow Deli days? Surely, the Island Pond days had their big problems. Anyway, there seems to be a longing for connection, for healing and for relationship deep down within each and every one of us. A Christian author (CS Lewis?) called it a God-shaped vacuum. I tell you what, if that is the case, that it is a God-shaped vacuum, that is intended to be filled with God-restored reltionship with Himself and others, isn't it a shame that people of faith can be the most hurtful as we tend to let them into that place? Perhaps we let them in too much? I know that hurt people hurt people. Thanks for your honest post. Best wishes, joy, safety and peace in your experience. | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 190 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Your so right... It's like what would happen if you approached a wounded dog hunkered down under the porch ? Even if it was to only offer a hand solace, your going to get bit! I feel as if I have healed enough and now have come out from under the porch and can once again attempt to be "mans best friend". Speaking of hurtful people of faith... watch this! Its on the next three days and will cover all 3 major religions... http://www.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2007/gods.warriors/ Remember it starts at 9pm eastern, so if your a midwesterner like myself it starts at 8...and 7 for all yall in the Rockies! Actually Annie, CS Lewis's "Mere Christianity" has always been a favorite of mine and I recommend it for all believers and non-believers! Here is a few great lines from this book... "What can you ever really know of other people's souls — of their temptations, their opportunities, their struggles? One soul in the whole of creation you do know: and it is the only one whose fate is placed in your hands. If there is a God, you are, in a sense, alone with Him. You cannot put Him off with speculation about your neighbors or memories of what you have read in books." "When you have reached your own room, be kind to those who have chosen different doors and to those who are still in the hall. If they are wrong they need your prayers all the more; and if they are your enemies, then you are under orders to pray for them. That is one of the rules common to the whole house." | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 191 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
Actually the quote of a "God-shaped vacuum" was erroneously attributed to Pascal... Here's a good blurb about this "vacuum"... Question: "Does everyone have a "God-shaped hole"?" Answer: Some people argue that all people have an innate longing for God. Pascal described it as a "God-shaped vacuum." Some quote Ecclesiastes 3:11 referencing God's placing of "eternity in their heart'' which is often said to mean that God has placed a God-shaped hole inside of all people who then spend their lives looking for something to fill it. Without God, people will try to fill the hole with immorality, business, etc. Thus, they remain unfulfilled and wondering why their lives never seem satisfactory. We are often then told that the key to evangelism is to get people to admit to this problem, show them that nothing will ever satisfy besides God, and then proceed to the gospel. The question is: What exactly does it mean to have eternity in one's heart? First, though, we might ask if this is even what the Bible says. The NIV translation has, "He has made everything beautiful in its time. He has also set eternity in the hearts of men; yet they cannot fathom what God has done from beginning to end." The KJV has "He hath made every thing beautiful in his time: also he hath set the world in their heart, so that no man can find out the work that God maketh from the beginning to the end." The NET translation has: "I have observed the burden that God has given to people to keep them occupied. God has made everything fit beautifully in its appropriate time, but he has also placed ignorance in the human heart so that people cannot discover what God has ordained, from the beginning to the end of their lives." None seem to be clearly referring to any kind of internal desire that all men have for God, even if the word is "eternity." Further, Pascal did not in fact say that "there is a God-shaped vacuum in all of us." What he said was, "All men seek happiness. This is without exception. Whatever different means they employ, they all tend to this end. . . . And yet, after such a great number of years, no one without faith has reached the point to which all continually look. . . . A trial so long, so continuous, and so uniform, should certainly convince us of our inability to reach the good by our own efforts. . . . he in vain tries to fill from all his surroundings, seeking from things absent the help he does not obtain in things present? But these are all inadequate, because the infinite abyss can only be filled by an infinite and immutable object, that is to say, only by God Himself. He only is our true good, and since we have forsaken him, it is a strange thing that there is nothing in nature which has not been serviceable in taking His place; . . . And since man has lost the true good, everything can appear equally good to him, even his own destruction, though so opposed to God, to reason, and to the whole course of nature." (Pensees 6.425) Thus the hole Pascal speaks of is "happiness shaped." That one can only FIND ultimate happiness in God is a separate matter. (cont.) | ||
| nabashalam Intermediate Member Username: nabashalam Post Number: 192 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 75.128.244.102 |
(cont. from above) Finally, and with all due respect to Pascal who I think is being misquoted here, I see several problems with this idea. First, the Bible does not paint a pretty picture of unsaved man's desires. Rather, it says that men have hearts that are full of evil (Ecclesiastes 9:3) that do not seek God (Romans 3:10-18) and whose desires lead to sin (Romans 7; James 1:14). Second, having been saved as an adult, I clearly remember my "B.C." days and I was definitely not seeking to fill any God-shaped vacuum. In fact, I desired many of the same things I still do - security, safety, soundness . . . and although I have learned that I must trust God for my needs (met or not) I still want these things. I think most people desire the same basic things, the problem is that they seek fulfillment for this life alone and are convinced that achieving some additional success in these areas will satisfy them (although studies and common experience show that they do not). This leads to my third point.. What a lot of people do not realize is how unique Qohelet (the author of Ecclesiastes) was. How many people can exhaust themselves on riches, women, food, drink, learning, etc.? I make a lot more money than I did five years ago but I still want more. I still feel like doubling my pay would satisfy me and I won't find out that it doesn't until I get it. Then, if I get the money, I'll think that a newer car, or a thinner spouse, or a shorter drive to work, or, or, or will satisfy. The fact is that it is extremely difficult to find someone who has sampled enough of the world to be convinced that they will never find true happiness in the world (this, I think, was Pascal's point). Finding someone who has hit rock bottom abusing themselves is another thing, of course, but that only pushes the starting point below zero so-to-speak. So in conclusion I do think that man was made with a desire for happiness - virtually all great thinkers admit to this. Further, it is the case that only God can, ultimately, fill that longing. But I think it is a mistake to act as though unbelievers are out groping for God and all we need to do is tap into that and we will gain converts. There is just too much in this world to give short-lived satisfaction. However, we can argue from this innate desire that unless existence is a cruel joke there must be an ultimate satisfaction to be found. And that ultimate is God. |
