| Author |
Message |
    
certavi_et_vici
Junior Member
Username: certavi_et_vici
Post Number: 40
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 71.178.135.62
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 8:41 pm: | 
|
It was stated previously on Factnet:
“Light sessions were a daily practice at both the coj and gcc while I was there. We would sit in a room together and one person would be on the 'hot seat' while everyone else took turns bombing them and telling them their sins. This would usually continue until the person on the hot seat was reduced to tears and humiliation. Growing up with this, I thought it was normal. The best way to insure you weren’t on the hot seat was to think of how to put someone else there. In this way, we were strategically turned against each other at all times, although always under the pretence that we were helping each other to "see the light"
When suffering light sessions by Father Farnsworth and his gestapo, sometimes we could get off if we were willing to turn others in and rat on them for more serious sins. On one occasion, I had suffered two days of interrogation and I was exhausted and traumatised. It was made very clear to me that I could get out of the hot seat if I was willing to turn in two others for more serious sins.
Fr. Farnsworth and Don Farnsworth sat me down in front of a screen of the Shroud of Turin, before I was to take communion. The yelling did not work so they tried to convince me with religious arguments that I would be doing the morally correct thing in turning others in to them.
I did just that. One person I knew was trying to get expelled so I consoled myself with the thought that I was doing him a favour. The only other person that I could think of was someone that was in a higher grade and did not know very well. He had also been suffering light sessions.
The two people in question were expelled immediately. The former was never heard from again. I used to see the other person walking the streets of Brockville. He would wave to the GCC school bus as we were on the way to the Brockville mall. It just killed me inside.
Somehow I lost an element of my own humanity and became very cold, hard and cynical after that. After years of disability advocacy, I was able to get back some of what I had lost. Regardless of that, I still deeply regret having turned those two into the GCC gestapo. |
certavi_et_vici
Junior Member
Username: certavi_et_vici
Post Number: 41
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 71.178.135.62
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 8:44 pm: |
|
Gleichaltung continude:
The Nazis called this tactic Gleichaltung = levelling / bringing into line. Individuals were encouraged to inform on each other. Each individual was cut off from his moorings, family, neighbours, community and any social support network, so one’s only relationship was with the state. Loyalty to the regime was all important. GCC obviously did not succeed in doing this with everyone, but that was the intention, and it was achieved at the mother cult model, The Community of Jesus. Father Farnsworth said he wanted David Smith to be as close to him as his own father.
There are numerous examples of Gleichsaltun at GCC and CofJ. Children were removed from their parents and raised by others, which broke the power of the family, and etc… One parent of a former GCC student said to me last week that Fr. Farnsworth turned his son against him after a series of private sessions. I was a friend of the student in question and I know this to be true. I was also told that my father was immoral and that I was not to be like him. One also saw this sort of thing in the former Soviet Union and other totalitarian regimes and numerous cults. Gleichaltung leads to the consolidation of the power of the regime against the individual. If one can understand Gliechaltung, one can understand how adults succumb to the power of cults and totalitarian regimes.
By bringing religion into this equation one creates a nasty cocktail, because many children have been brought up to respect religion. Children are therefore unable to reject the regime because it is tied up in religion and their understanding of salvation. Therefore, if they reject the regime then they feel they forfeit their salvation. The children are made to feel this way by the regime, because the regime is trying to ward off opposition and maintain power.
The manipulation of religion by such a regime effects a control that was unavailable to atheist regimes like the former Soviet Union, but is often found in cults.
Once these people get into power, it is very difficult to get rid of them.
(Message edited by Certavi et Vici on August 18, 2007) |
dream_truth
Junior Member
Username: dream_truth
Post Number: 33
Registered: 3-2006
Posted From: 72.45.165.10
| | Posted on Saturday, August 18, 2007 - 10:43 pm: |
|
chilling |
bossman
Junior Member
Username: bossman
Post Number: 34
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 142.32.208.232
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 4:37 am: |
|
I remeber the shroud being used at a few times like that in my days. I remember an instance where a we were getting in trouble for something and F2 asked us what this was, motioning to the shroud picture and MD responded, "yeah it's a fake". Needless to say it didn't end up well for us that night. What about all those trips to Mejagoira (spx) |
rozpriceenglish
Junior Member
Username: rozpriceenglish
Post Number: 46
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 172.134.57.71
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 7:02 am: |
|
Certavi et Vici -
I am SO SORRY, what a terrible experience. And the regret to carry around...that's a heavy load. I do know what you mean. I had a very dear friend who I lost due to being ripped apart in a similar fashion.
I can't even think of anything comforting to say. I wish I could erase that memory from your mind, it was a crime committed against you... |
bluesman
New member
Username: bluesman
Post Number: 21
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 68.83.79.247
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 10:00 am: |
|
I am so sorry to hear how much this was done to students. It's unconscionable!
I do know this was standard operating procedure for staff, pretty much 24/7/365. The great thing about it (from the leadership point of view) was that, after a while, it only took the threat of this to control people, so you didn't have to spend so much time breaking people down. They were already broken down.
I'm being semi-sarcastic, but you really do have to admire the brilliant mind control methods used. VERY effective. |
lightsout
New member
Username: lightsout
Post Number: 14
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 76.100.140.96
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 11:01 am: |
|
oh gosh certavi -
i am so sorry. i don't even know what to say.
but the similarities are so scary.
i hope you can find some peace in all of this.
i said in another thread (I think?) that we were always having to cut someone elses throat to save our own - almost like a survival mechanism. it was and is just so sad. |
cryfreedom
Junior Member
Username: cryfreedom
Post Number: 45
Registered: 6-2006
Posted From: 24.226.27.60
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 2:29 pm: |
|
Certavi-----Thankyou for starting this thread and for informing many of these terrible techniques that GCC and the CofJ used. I was raised at GCC and therefore this life style was the "norm" for me. It wasn't until my highschool years that I realized how •••••• up it all was. I did not live with my Mom(I'm sure you know her---Donna Roberston, in the guidance office) for many, many years. It was after leaving GCC that I became aware of the above techniques you mentioned and how they were used for control at GCC. It is sickening and degrading!! I have said it before that I knew so much abuse was done to the staff and staff kids(as I took alot of it). But to be learning now about how much all of you went through also is KILLING ME!! Thanks for having the courage to share! Lately I am grateful on a DAILY bases that I got the hell out of there!!
Cheers-----Dawn |
lightsout
New member
Username: lightsout
Post Number: 16
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 76.100.140.96
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 2:29 pm: |
|
I just read this whole post again from Certavi - and it really is scary how many similarities that GCC and CofJ have with nazi regiment.
This is all so true:
Each individual was cut off from his moorings, family, neighbours, community and any social support network, so one’s only relationship was with the state. Loyalty to the regime was all important. GCC obviously did not succeed in doing this with everyone, but that was the intention, and it was achieved at the mother cult model, The Community of Jesus. |
bettyboop
New member
Username: bettyboop
Post Number: 13
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 69.205.224.127
| | Posted on Sunday, August 19, 2007 - 11:41 pm: |
|
Certavi -
your posts re: the history behind "gleichaltung" and its use at gcc were indeed chilling and powerful.
a staff kid, i did not live with my parents past 12 years-old. they were pitted against me and i against them repeatedly. in fact, at different times, the new staff assigned to me as "parents" wrote weekly reports to FF on our behavior, spiritual life, "rebellion", etc. this is the biggest thing i still have a hard time forgiving my parents for: giving up the control of their children. i can understand why the did it, but i wish i didn't have to understand.
i feel as though i am going to vomit right now... |
sheilac
New member
Username: sheilac
Post Number: 25
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 74.97.18.17
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 12:14 am: |
|
Betty, I don't know what to say. I'm so sorry you had to go through that--you and your parents both. Just beyond belief. ((Hug)) |
bettyboop
New member
Username: bettyboop
Post Number: 15
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 69.205.224.127
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 12:18 am: |
|
a hug from "the most beautiful woman in the whole world" - i'm set!  |
certavi_et_vici
Junior Member
Username: certavi_et_vici
Post Number: 46
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 71.178.135.62
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 1:23 am: |
|
Betty,
Your account of your treatment grieves me. I am so sorry this happened to you. My parents were not caught up in the CofJ and did not even know that it existed. At least many of us had a refuge to get away to. I can only imagine what this was like for you. It is truly remarkable and a credit to your resilient spirit and inner motivation to succeed that you have turned out so well. Your success is an inspiration to us all.
Before I posted my thoughts on Gleichaltung at Grenville, I consulted the advice of a Harvard academic and a former CIA Sovietologist. A key element of Gleichaltung is the undermining of the parent child relationship, which was offset with ties to the regime and its leadership. I knew that children suffered separation from their parents and given to others to raise, but I had no idea that the foster parents were writing reports on the children to Fr. Farnsworth. FF clearly was a little “der Führer”. Just when I thought that FF could not get anymore disgusting. Hitler was not even a Christian, but FF was a priest!
The Anglican Church of Canada needs to account for ordaining him without schooling or seminary training, and allowing him to carry on in this way at Grenville without any supervision. |
certavi_et_vici
Junior Member
Username: certavi_et_vici
Post Number: 47
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 71.178.118.46
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 1:26 am: |
|
Betty,
Your account of your treatment grieves me. I am so sorry this happened to you. My parents were not caught up in the CofJ and did not even know that it existed. At least many of us had a refuge to get away to. I can only imagine what this was like for you. It is truly remarkable and a credit to your resilient spirit and inner motivation to succeed that you have turned out so well. Your success is an inspiration to us all.
Before I posted my thoughts on Gleichaltung at Grenville, I consulted the advice of a Harvard academic and a former CIA Sovietologist. A key element of Gleichaltung is the undermining of the parent child relationship, which was offset with ties to the regime and its leadership. I knew that children suffered separation from their parents and given to others to raise, but I had no idea that the foster parents were writing reports on the children to Fr. Farnsworth. FF clearly was a little “der Führer”. Just when I thought that FF could not get anymore disgusting. Hitler was not even a Christian, but FF was a priest!
The Anglican Church of Canada needs to account for ordaining him without schooling or seminary training, and allowing him to carry on in this way at Grenville without any supervision. |
lightsout
New member
Username: lightsout
Post Number: 17
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 76.100.140.96
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 9:35 am: |
|
quoting certavi: "The Anglican Church of Canada needs to account for ordaining him without schooling or seminary training, and allowing him to carry on in this way at Grenville without any supervision."
ABSOLUTELY! - he never went to seminary???  I never knew that....how can that be true? How did they allow that? |
jes_noonan
Member
Username: jes_noonan
Post Number: 62
Registered: 7-2007
Posted From: 67.70.17.84
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 10:05 am: |
|
Along the lines of the anglican church and their involvement with schools. The journalist whom I've been speaking to about gcc, etc told of a fairly recent situation in the northern part of a couple of the prairie provinces; specifically involving native schools. Effectively, the church tried to turn natives "white" by not allowing them to speak their native tongue, engage in native practices, etc. The end result of this was a class-action suit against the anglican church (I believe they funded these schools - I stand to be corrected). The ex-students won and it apparently nearly bankrupted the anglican church in Canada. I offer this only as a fyi post....not trying to suggest anything. |
lightsout
New member
Username: lightsout
Post Number: 19
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 76.100.140.96
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 10:12 am: |
|
wow Jesse! |
mike_irvine
New member
Username: mike_irvine
Post Number: 19
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 74.59.81.250
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 11:06 am: |
|
yeah the residential school program was beyond horrific, but it wasn't isolated to the prairies. there were hundreds of schools in nearly every province and territory. in fact the US and australia had similar programs to solve their "native problem". about 60% of the schools were run by the catholic church and the remainder were run by various protestant denominations.
the schools were super underfunded and relied on the forced labour of it's students to survive. the conditions were so horrible that they had a mortality rate of nearly 50%. it's important to mention that this isn't ancient history - the last residential school was closed in 1998.
in my opinion these schools were nothing short of genocidal. an excellent book by one of my favourite writers was written on this topic - it's called Kill the Indian, Save the Man by Ward Churchill. |
bettyboop
New member
Username: bettyboop
Post Number: 20
Registered: 5-2006
Posted From: 69.205.224.127
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 12:55 am: |
|
thanks for the update on the residential schools, mike and jesse. that truly is a massive stain in canada's history (and the u.s. and australia too). i agree, those schools were nothing short of genocidal. |
oneflewover
New member
Username: oneflewover
Post Number: 10
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.55.240.27
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 3:00 pm: |
|
Gleichaltung! I remember during light sessions thinking that this was the sort of thing that the godless communists did to christians to get them to revoke their christianity. Didn't know the definition of irony at the time.
As for residential schools when I first learned of the abuses that happened there I felt guilty for thinking I had had it so bad.
It was the attempt at separating our family that was the proverbial straw for my father. He was told he couldn't deal with my brother (who was on discipline) because he himself was on discipline (not to mention the naturally idolatrous relatonships parents had with their children.)
I experienced 2 major lightsessions (and countless lesser seismic upheavals) that haunted me for years. One at the Cape and one just before the start of the new school year ('74/'75).
At the Cape after dinner ( a crew of us had been sent for a week for indoctrination) I was badgered for what seemed like an eternity, I actually felt myself about to capitulate ("yes, you're right, I am wrong, so wrong-") still thinking "they're brainwashing me" when all of a sudden someone opened the door and said, "You're all still here? It's time for bed. Finish up." And it was over and everyone started stacking chairs and chatting and I sat there stunned and practically drooling. I was that close.
Later that summer all of us staff kids had a brutal all day sucker to get us in line for the soon to arrive students. We all eventually caved to some degree except one who refused until he was pulled over someone's knee and whacked with a piece of rough lumber until he screamed "okay, okay!" It was actually what happened to him that convinced me they had it absof#@&inlutely wrong. |
oneflewover
New member
Username: oneflewover
Post Number: 11
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.55.240.27
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 3:02 pm: |
|
Gleichaltung! I remember during light sessions thinking that this was the sort of thing that the godless communists did to christians to get them to revoke their christianity. Didn't know the definition of irony at the time.
As for residential schools when I first learned of the abuses that happened there I felt guilty for thinking I had had it so bad.
It was the attempt at separating our family that was the proverbial straw for my father. He was told he couldn't deal with my brother (who was on discipline) because he himself was on discipline (not to mention the naturally idolatrous relatonships parents had with their children.)
I experienced 2 major lightsessions (and countless lesser seismic upheavals) that haunted me for years. One at the Cape and one just before the start of the new school year ('74/'75).
At the Cape after dinner ( a crew of us had been sent for a week for indoctrination) I was badgered for what seemed like an eternity, I actually felt myself about to capitulate ("yes, you're right, I am wrong, so wrong-") still thinking "they're brainwashing me" when all of a sudden someone opened the door and said, "You're all still here? It's time for bed. Finish up." And it was over and everyone started stacking chairs and chatting and I sat there stunned and practically drooling. I was that close.
Later that summer all of us staff kids had a brutal all day sucker to get us in line for the soon to arrive students. We all eventually caved to some degree except one who refused until he was pulled over someone's knee and whacked with a piece of rough lumber until he screamed "okay, okay!" It was actually what happened to him that convinced me they had it absofrakkinlutely wrong. |
sheilac
Member
Username: sheilac
Post Number: 74
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 70.54.18.207
| | Posted on Saturday, September 22, 2007 - 12:05 pm: |
|
Also in the spirit of refocus, I am bumping this brilliant and chillingly accurate article of Andrews' up to the top.
I challenge anyone who attended Grenville not to see the parallels outlined in this article.
(Message edited by sheilac on September 22, 2007)
(Message edited by sheilac on September 22, 2007) |