| Author | Message | ||
     michael (172.186.107.189) |
Ave Satanus We worship Satan the God of Truth http://www.geocities.com/thesynagogueofsatan | ||
| Anonymous (69.138.217.241) |
well tell us a little aboutit. we may want to join in the fun | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 136 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
This is a partial transcript from "The O'Reilly Factor," October 27, 2005. When I try to link it, it won’t work for some reason, so here is the whole article pasted. Did A Goth Lifestyle Lead to Pamela Vitale's Murder? Friday, October 28, 2005 BILL O’REILLY, HOST: "Back of the Book" segment tonight. Sixteen-year-old Scott Dyleski was arraigned today for the murder of 52-year-old Pamela Vitale in California. Ms. Vitale is the wife of high profile defense attorney Daniel Horowitz. One of the bizarre aspects of this case is that Ms. Vitale, police say, was brutally beaten and a Goth sign — a Goth sign was carved into her back. Authorities say Dyleski was involved with the Goth lifestyle, whatever that is. Joining us from Columbus, Ohio, Dr. Dawn Perlmutter, author of the book, "Investigating Religious Terrorism and Ritualistic Crimes." I don't think most of us know what this Goth thing is. Can you explain it to us? DR. DAWN PERLMUTTER, AUTHOR, "INVESTIGATING RELIGIOUS TERRORISM AND RITUALISTIC CRIMES": The Goth is one manifestation of a number of dark subcultures. The Goth movement is almost sort of entry level, where teenagers get involved through music, through dress. It's sort of affiliated also with Satan — Satanism and sometimes a vampire scene. There's they're all very related subcultures. O'REILLY: All right. So they dress in black and they wear black nail polish. I see them sometimes in that kind of a mode. Is it violent? I mean do they preach violence? PERLMUTTER: The Goth movement itself doesn't preach violence. But in this particular case, the indications with Scott Dyleski was more of someone involved in Satanism, more so than the Goth movement. He was carrying around — students referred to "The Book of Satan." What they meant was "The Satanic Bible," where the first book — the first chapter is "The Book of Satan." There have been numerous ritual murders with teenagers who have gotten involved in one or more of these subcultures. O'REILLY: Now, what is the carving of the symbol into the body? That's No. 1. And I have to tell everybody that police continue to say this was a horrific beating, whoever did this. And we're not going to convict this kid. But he obviously has been arraigned. I mean, what is the symbol — is that what — what always happens in these kinds of things, a symbol is carved into the body? PERLMUTTER: Mutilation is very common in ritualistic crimes. In fact, in almost every crime where a teenager was involved in the occult, they did some kind of heinous mutilation. In the case in Florida with Rod Ferrell, who bludgeoned two people to death with a crowbar, he had burned a symbol into their bodies, signifying his group. There was a case in Bel Air, Ohio, where Nathan Brooks had killed his mother and then cut his father's head off and offered it up to Satan in a ritual. Another case in Virginia, in Loudon County, where a girl was involved in the occult with another kid, and she — they stabbed her father to death with a sword and cut symbols. They're always very heinous types of crimes. And what they're doing is they're attempting to do a sacrificial rite, and they're actually getting it wrong, because they're inexperienced. O'REILLY: All right. Well, Doctor, it's a very — and you know, parents see their kids undergo a transformation like the Dyleski kid did, I mean that's a warning sign. This stuff is nothing to ignore. Doctor, thanks very much for your expertise. We appreciate it. DA666, what do you think of this interview as to how it relates to Satanism? Is Modern Satanism related to Goth? Or to vampires? Are ritual murders described in the Satanic bible? Are these symbols and mutilations part of Satanic rites? It was mentioned that some people were trying to do Satanic rites. Are these rites supposed to be performed on animals? | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Intermediate Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 185 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.174.144.164 |
Well, first off, the "Doctor", makes rather sweeping assumptions about Satanists. Most of them inaccurate. These kids are nothing more than wannabes, following the most commonly depicted image of Satan, a murderous hell-fiend demigod of Evil that the media in most any Christian dominated country presents. Secondly, the Satanic Bible is refered to as the Satanic Bible by Satanists, not the book of Satan. And, had the "Doctor" actually read through it, he'd realize taht the author, Anton LaVey, himself, did not believe in a literal Satan, nor did he say go out and perform sacrifices to a Satan figure. The only thing even remotely close to what a Satanic ritual ACTUALLY includes that was mentioned was the sigil of Baphomet and a sword. And those are not actually used to kill or harm anything, as these are symbolic in their purpose and usage. Any how, the sigil of Baphomet represents the pursuit of knowledge in all its forms, not wanton murder. The kids carving that into people have no idea what it means. The swords are to represent our wrath and power, they are usually used in hexing rituals, but those do not actually involve the target to be present, and many of these rituals are performed solo. So no, mutilation and human and animal sacrifice are not part of Satanic rituals, at least how real Satanists perform them. But, you'll always have wannabes who think that by murdering an innocent person, then butchering their corpse up in an elaborate display will make them a Satanist, then they are dead wrong. The Satanic rituals themselves outlined in the Satanic Bible are really more of psycha-dramas, as in they are symbolic rituals meant to help achieve a state of mind to gain the desired ends. And, any magick that comes from these rituals is supposed to come from the person performing the ritual's will, not from the death throes of a living creature. I even remember reading about the concept of sacrificing a living creature to empower the ritual, but let me put it like this, LaVey had a field day mocking that and tearing such an idea apart. The usage of another living creature as a sacrifice is considered pathetic, and a sign that the person performing the ritual is a weakling or incompetent. No one innocent, be they an animal, a child, or another person, is ever supposed to be hurt, much less involved at all, in any of these rituals. They are personal rituals, between the person performing the ritual and their own mind. The only time a person can "sacrifice" another in the Satanic Bible is when, say, the person is going to try to kill you and its pretty much life and death or something along those lines. I.E., "sacrificing" a person is more properly understood as simply an assassination or murder, which the person doing this still has to take responsibility for their actions, its not part of any ritual unless the person made that ritual up themselves. And when you think about it, murder, being as common place as it is in human society, is something people of any faith and lack thereof, do. So, the only real reason the "Doctor" calls these murders "Satanic" is because of the use of imagery commonly seen as Satanic, yet totally misunderstood in meaning and purpose. Also, we make very effective boogie men for a predominately Christian society, even if we ourselves are not at fault for what is being associated with us. It would be like associating Erik Rudolph with Christians, since he claims to be a Christian, yet he fire bombs abortion clinics, murdered doctors, etc. Or that the Army of God, a "Christian" terrorist organization that used to do things similar to Erik Rudolph, represents Christians. Clearly not the best, or even accurate representatives of Christianity. | ||
| yaakov (yaakov) Intermediate Member Username: yaakov Post Number: 137 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 63.148.234.6 |
As I thought, this kid was just a wannabee who was pretending and making it us as he went. It is hard for me to see your beliefs as you see your beliefs. The Christian definition of Satanic beliefs is so pervasive, that it tends to overwhelm the Satanism ideals that I read about here. I guess it also doesn’t help that I don’t personally know any Satanists, so I don’t have any first-person experiences with your religion. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Intermediate Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 196 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.174.144.164 |
Yaakov, I guess that's just how the West is, predominately Christian in its symbolism, concepts, and cosmology. But all societies have their lunatics who take symbols to mean more than they really do. And the fact that we Satanists have been underground, for lack of a better word for it, until relatively recently still gives us that mystic , however malign, that attracts negative stereotypes galore. And, there will always be nut jobs who but the stereotypes to be the real deal, and hence act upon them. | ||
| frankenchrist (frankenchrist) Intermediate Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 104 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.144.162 |
DA666, Do you think there may be an element of ecusing the sick behvior with the wannabe Satanism? That is to say that these kids are creating an excuse to behave in such a manner. After thye get caught they use the old "devil made me do it" excuse and becuase of the way that our society views these 'Satanic' symbols the kids actually do get out form having to take personal resposnibility for their behavior. I'm not saying that they would escape punishment -- sure they are going to get punished, but they are able to escape responsibility on a personal level. They do not internalize thier behavior. Then they have a spledid opportunity to have a jail house conversion. The oldest con in the book -- "just tell 'em how much you love Jesus." | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Intermediate Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 199 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.174.144.164 |
I wouldn't be surprised if they are just using the Satan image to excuse their behavior, hopefully to appeal to a sense of "well, the Devil made them do it, so its not really their fault entirely". That flys right in the face of Satanism, with the emphasis on individual responsibility. I cannot claim the Devil made me do it, and anyone who goes around doing what that kid did, and then claim the Devil made them do it is either irresponsible or a psychopath. And either way, they should be locked up. These kinds of wannabes make me sick. There are two prominent types of wannabes in Satanism: -The maltheistic, teenage rebels and -The psychopaths/Sociopaths. The maltheistic teenage rebels are tolerable since they tend to either mature a bit and begin to take charge of their lives, and those that don't tend to leave Satanism since it didn't give them the thrill they were seeking. The Psychopaths and Sociopaths are the worst for obvious reasons. They really making us look worse than we already are. They only help contribute to the Satanist witch hunts, like in the 1980s, and the numerous stories of "Satanic" cults operating on child murder and virgin sacrifices and other such nonsense. Believe me, we Satanists would love nothing more than to personally take care of some of these wannabes, I mean, having that affiliation with Satan is one thing, but these guys make it worse. We hate them more than anyone else. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 1071 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.49.13.0 |
A question: What if satan is real and did make them do it? | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Intermediate Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 200 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.174.144.164 |
Okay, to answer your question in hypothetical terms, Franklin, if the person was literally forced, i.e., compelled against their will, then we really cannot fault them, unless they knew specifically what was going to happen, and invited such upon themselves. But the same would go for the Erik Rudolphs of the world too, just switch "Satan" with what ever respective being they claim to be following the orders of. But odds are, they are not being compelled by any being, save their own egos or what ever dementa or lack of better judgement drives them. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Senior Member Username: franklin Post Number: 1076 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 71.49.13.0 |
The Son of Sam murdered upon the direct orders of his neighbor's dog. Maybe the dog was possessed by satan. | ||
| frankenchrist (frankenchrist) Intermediate Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 105 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.144.162 |
DA666, Have you read Kenneth Lanning's report on the investigation of "Satanic Ritual Abuse"? I have a link here: http://www.locksley.com/6696/ritukill.htm It's long but well-constructed. He is an FBI agent who was in charge of investigating the so-called "Satanic conspiracy" or "underground." This is probably the most unbiased, well-written, and sober account of the whole Satanic Panic episode that I have read. Another good one is here: http://www.witchvox.com/_x.html?c=whs This is a Wiccan site. | ||
| munchkin (munchkin) Intermediate Member Username: munchkin Post Number: 150 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 62.255.32.17 |
frankenchrist, thanks for those links, they are interesting, havn't read them all yet but have bookmarked them  beccaxx (Message edited by munchkin on November 14, 2005) | ||
| frankenchrist (frankenchrist) Intermediate Member Username: frankenchrist Post Number: 109 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.109.144.162 |
Let me know what you think Munchklin. | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Intermediate Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 201 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.174.144.164 |
Franklin, That's a very good link, I haven't gotten through the second link though. It made many of the points that stood out to me when I thought about the Satanic Panic of the 80s. Thanks for the links. | ||
| ball_of_fluff (ball_of_fluff) Advanced Member Username: ball_of_fluff Post Number: 521 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 66.107.60.82 |
I become quite angry about the nursery school scandals, etc. Just big witchhunts with absolutely NOTHING going on. Just saw a special on TLC channel the other day where these two hysterics- one was an FBI retiree and the other, a psychologist- were trying to say there were these murderous Satanic cults all over the place. I know there have been some allegations but even the ones on the show they discussed, often turned out to be someone not too tightly wrapped who had a grudge toward the victim and was already a sociopath to begin with, thus making Satanism an excuse rather than something that leads the person into doing things. So then they showed this crime scene. Fully loaded with Satanic artifacts. So neatly displayed. I was like "Whoa!" Then they said it was staged by that psychologist so she could show detectives what to look for because "it's happening more and more nowadays" but she could not give examples. The FBI guy had a tape of someone being sacrificed in a Satanic black mass. So a physician was watching it and saying that as a physician, the way the wounds and bodies and impacts were, it looked totally simulated to him. The thing about these people I don't like is NOT their belief in black magic cults or the dangers thereof. Of course there could be some. Of course people could dabble in some harmful variant and hurt people. (although I think it's very very rare) No, to me it was this witch hunt, very like the McMartin and other preschool scandals of the 80s where lives were ruined for all time, the targets of which had never done one blessed thing wrong. You know, in the early 90s, or so, out not too far from where I am now, over in Wenatchee, WA, there was this big scandal with these children of poor and learning disabled parents pressured by one Deputy Perez to say that they were sexually molested and ritually abused by their parents. Anyone who stood up to Perez & co was fired, harassed, whatever. Some people have, to this day, NEVER gotten their jobs or kids back, even though this has since been decried. And you know what's interesting about this? At one point, Perez drove around with kids in a police car or his car and they pointed out all kinds of people who'd supposedly molested them. You know when else this happened? During the Salem witch hysteria. After the initial hangings and the hysteria with the slave Tituba and the stories she told, the hysteria spread to other areas of the community. They put a couple of the girls in a wagon and they drove around saying "he's a witch" "she's a witch". Spooky, huh? And you know what else is amazing- of the original families to have family members hanged as witches (they were hanged. One guy was pressed. They weren't burned) almost all of them either had their land in a certain place or had opposed the appointment of the current minister. This is why I get really bent out of shape about witch and occult hysteria. I fully understand saying "I don't believe that's a good thing. I think it's spiritually harmful." and it's another to foster hysteria. There are two people or so on another forum who've called me a Satanist and said I have Satanist friends. Actually, I don't. I have exchanged posts a few times with DA666 and I have a Wiccan friend (not the same thing as a Satanist) and I don't have a problem with others practicing occultism, but I myself don't practice it am not a member of any Satanist organization, theistic or non theistic, and do not believe in devils. So why did I run across those accusations? Because of a witch hunting hysteria mentality as opposed to one which goes "Hey, I'm X religion and I don't believe that Y methods are good. Are YOU a proponent of Y? If so, I don't agree with that." I have some very good friends who are Christians and wouldn't want to see any occultism at all, but they don't go around witch hunting. There is a difference! History is littered with the victims of witch hunting hysteria and some of those victims are recent. | ||
| munchkin (munchkin) Intermediate Member Username: munchkin Post Number: 182 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 62.255.32.17 |
bof, peopel will associate anything with witchcraft/satanism or their imaginings of it if they can. Last week we had a door evangelizer who i told i was a Taosit, to which her polite and pleasent reply was "get back you whore of satan" not a nice way to start a saturday moring of course on the one hand its quite funny, on the other its scary, knowing that she would happily be burning people for witchery. beccaxx (Message edited by munchkin on November 15, 2005) | ||
| devilsadvocate666 (devilsadvocate666) Intermediate Member Username: devilsadvocate666 Post Number: 202 Registered: 1-2005 Posted From: 70.174.144.164 |
Munchkin, I've had door to door folk come by before. My policy is if they are polite, I'll be polite, and being raised as a Southern gentlemen and with a proud latin influence in my home, I can be quite a hospitable host. But, the moment they break out the insults like that...they will be shown to the door, and they have two options, leave gracefully, or get thrown out. So far, no one has been thrown out or asked to leave. Just remember, if they immediately call you something like a whore, remind them that, (if they are a Christian), that Jesus dined with the lower castes of society, and that if they truely wish to emulate Jesus's example, then they should begin with modesty, and calling you anything like that is not only a sin, but shows them to be "un-Christian". Or, if you're like me, and know a smattering of another language and bits and pieces of about 2 other languages, you can just pretend not to speak english. I usually resort to some spanish, and occassionally some bits of Korean I rememeber learning from friends. They hate that. | ||
| zara_z (zara_z) Junior Member Username: zara_z Post Number: 40 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 138.130.135.230 |
Munchkin, I've been called a whore of Satan as well, and by people who claimed to be my friends, upon their finding out my beliefs. I think it is quite funny, really, and I don't get offended by it anymore. I just feel sorry for them. And if anyone comes to the door, well, I just look out the peep-hole and if it is preachers, well, I pretend I'm not there, and if they approach me in the streets I merely tell them 'have a nice day' then walk on as if they didn't exist. I know that they see their motives as honorable ones, and that does count for something. | ||
| munchkin (munchkin) Intermediate Member Username: munchkin Post Number: 225 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 62.255.32.17 |
hi, it is kind of funny really i suppose, but should we ever go back to detain the witch times, these people would come forth very quickly i think. They never get in the house, we have dogs so i just say it'll upset them to have strangers in. love becca | ||
| t_katt (t_katt) New member Username: t_katt Post Number: 12 Registered: 11-2005 Posted From: 12.16.33.89 |
I just answer the door naked....  | ||
| greekgaia15 New member Username: greekgaia15 Post Number: 13 Registered: 4-2006 Posted From: 204.249.125.199 |
wow, people are so narrow minded. I say don't disbelieve anything unless you have personally seen it proven that it isn't true. Why do people so hate religeons that promote free speech? Catholics aren't even supposed to read the very book that is supposed to teach them how to lead their lives, but they call free thinkers spawn of Satan and other such b.s. Why? |
