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mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 1
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 6:42 pm: | 
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Hello, my name is Maria Bee. I am the new Executive Director in Training of FactNet.
I am about to celebrate my Ten Year Anniversary of leaving the Jehovah’s Witnesses, the religion into which I was born and raised. I would like to share my story with you.
My parents converted to being Jehovah’s Witnesses (JW’s) in the early 1970’s shortly before they married and had me. My father had grown up in the south with very Christian parents. My mother had been raised by agnostics, but also had some Catholic relatives. I was attending meetings before I was even born. By the time I was five years old I was participating in the theocratic ministry school and making brief statements when going door-to-door with my parents. I grew up in fear of myself, my imagination, and my sexuality. Guilt was nearly constant, but looking back, I never really did anything wrong. I was a good kid and scarily good teenager. I never snuck out, I never had a boyfriend, I never drank, I never tried drugs. The worst thing I ever did was read at night when I suppose to be sleeping (something I still have a problem with, lol).
(continuted in next post) |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 2
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 6:44 pm: |
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I got baptized when I was fourteen because I thought it was what my parents wanted. It felt at the time like a step towards being a grown up. Throughout my childhood and teen years I would occasionally have moments where I experienced deep awe and connection with all, because I was a JW and that was all I had ever known, I attributed these experiences to the idea that I was in the right religion.
I was a depressed teenager and focused on doing well in school, expressing myself through art (drawing and paintings, mostly of recently deceased celebrities), and listening to “my music” (mostly folk-rock back then). At age eighteen I branched out and connected with an older girl that had married and moved to another town several years before. I’ll call her April. She was also a Jehovah’s Witness, but had a naughty past and lots of interesting insights. Through her stories I began to realized that young JW’s weren’t as good as I had thought they were and that people were getting away with things left and right. Unfortunately, her luck ran out and she got disfellowshipped several months after we became close friends. This furthered my growing disillusionment.
(continuted in next post) |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 3
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 6:49 pm: |
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I spent the next year going to business college, earning a 4.0 gpa, and getting very skinny. I was depressed, but driven, a strange combination. April was reinstated about a year later and though I promised myself that I wouldn’t be caught in her web again, I was within days. To this day my friendship with April is one of the most important times in my life. She taught me how to dress, do my makeup, make eye contact, and get out there and dance. We had some really wild times and I owe her a lot. Because of her I grew up and found enough inner strength to finally walk away from the JW’s (though that was not her intent!).
I met my first boyfriend when I was twenty years old. He was from another congregation about two hours away from my home. It was the most fun I had ever had up to that point in my life. We did everything two young kids should do, short of having actual sex. It was a blast. However, he was unstable and I figured out pretty quickly that he wouldn’t be the guy I’d marry. He had too many problems. When I tried to break up with him, he freaked out and went to the elders. He had it in his head that I was breaking up with him out of guilt about our less than pure activities. In the end I was privately reproved and he was disfellowshipped. This was the final blow. I didn’t want to be with him anymore, but I thought this was unfair. Why was I only privately reproved? Why couldn’t they tell I was lying? Why couldn’t they tell I was already in deep with another completely inappropriate (by their standards) relationship? If God was on their side, shouldn’t the elders have seen right through me?
(continued in next post) |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 220
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 6:50 pm: |
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Mariabee, I am very much interested in your experience!
P |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 4
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Thursday, August 16, 2007 - 6:50 pm: |
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A few weeks later I met my second boyfriend. A few weeks after that I found us an apartment a few towns over and moved out. That was September 1997. I couldn’t bear the thought of another elders’ meeting or the elders tracking me down, so I wrote them a letter explaining that I no longer wanted to be a Jehovah’s Witness and to leave me alone. April begged me not to do this, to just fade away, but I couldn’t go that route. She is still a JW. The elders called me once to verify the letter (apparently this is required) and then they announced to my congregation that I had disassociated myself (which is really wacky terminology).
My sister left the JW’s a couple years before I did (she was never baptized, so she is not shunned) and I am sure her example helped me take the steps that I did. Over the past couple years my mother and my father have also left the JW’s and reclaimed their peace-loving, hippy, bleeding-heart liberal ways. They are awesome! Even if they had stayed in, I would say that, they really are amazing people. They NEVER limited contact with me or my sister.
The first five years after I left, I often had it in the back of my mind that I might go back. I even attended The Memorial a couple times and attended a Sunday meeting or two (though never at my old Hall, that would have been way too weird). I thought that once I married by boyfriend, the one I originally moved out with, that I’d go back. We broke up after five fairly rough years and I realized I didn’t want to go back and never would.
In my mid-20’s I earned my BA in Management and now I am studying Psychology and working towards my Masters degree. I love my life. I have challenges and it’s funny to catch the things that are still there from my childhood as a JW, though that has faded away more and more.
A few years ago, after a very rough break up, I took a brief detour into the born-again Christian realm. Jesus was my rebound relationship. It was comforting at the time and served a purpose, but never fully clicked for me. Now my path is more spiritual and eclectic. I find peace, beauty, and divinity in nature and in everyday life.
My sister and I still reminisce about the old days and shake our heads in disbelief that we grew up that way. Maybe someday we’ll write a book.
Please let me know if you have any questions or comments.
Warmly,
Maria Bee |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 221
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 6:51 pm: |
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Dear Mariabee:
(Part 1 of 5)
I want to thank you for sharing your story and experiences with all of us in a very tasteful manner. I am sorry that I posted in-between your posts, as I did not mean to be rude, but was excited about your partial post. Your post has led me to some questions that I would appreciate your addressing in your “free time”; if there is such a thing today!! LOL
Congratulations on your new position in training.
You express that you were brought up as a JW and that you grew up in fear of yourself, imagination and sexuality, and felt guilty all the time, and while you do not express this on point, I am not sure if you place blame for these feelings with the JW’s. The question I have for you is; Do you not find (if not in your case) that these feelings are simple part of “normal” adolescence behavior for some, whether JW or not? I have found that many adolescents do have these same common feelings growing from immaturity to maturity and finding out about oneself. I would like your thoughts on this please.
I love the problem you had and still do, as you are not alone in this-lol!!! I love to read!!! You might say it is a part of my professional life as well!!!
I understand you were baptized more for your parents than for yourself, and I am certain this happens often not only with JW’s but with families of other religions, where children are wanting to please their parents, as a natural course of their own belief systems and standards. I submit this is or was a very natural thing to do, though as you know by JW standards, it should be done only when a person truly comes to the realization that it is their personal decision, but again, as a child and the pleasing factor to consider, it is most understandable. I do not find anything wrong with this apparent natural course of conduct and living, since as you have shown, when you get older, you can then choose to do this or that! It is hoped that the upbringing however, was not bad causing problems for the young person in their adult years and this does not seem to be the case with you!
I like the manner in which you express being in “awe” etc and “connected with all” because it was the only thing you had known and felt, at the time, feeling as many do, that it was the “right religion”. I submit to you, that this can also be said, and I hope you agree, if you were raised in any religion, as Catholics have infant baptism, confirmation and other religions have their own practices; and parents will tend to do, the best thing they can (generally speaking) to raise their child the best way they know how, JW or not; meaning it is equally true of all parents and cultures with or without religion. May I have your thought on this please? Also, do you feel there is a right religion today and if so, what is your thought on this as it appears you did not gravitate to other forms of Christianity but yet you are a spiritual person?
Continued Below |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 222
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 6:56 pm: |
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(Part 2 of 5)
Concerning, depression, did you feel it was directly attributed to your then faith as a JW? I would submit that depressed teens, (also sometimes a sign of adolescence) is or can be found in all religions and walks of life with atheists too!
Through your experience with “April” you gained insights you had not known before, and apparently you admire her, and she is still a JW, so is it your belief that her being a JW may have influenced who she is today despite her and others like her that are not perfect people? When April got DF’d, it must have hurt, as it limited or should have limited your association with her; which I understand caused you, further or added to your “growing disillusionment.” In your mind at the time, did you think that the JW was or should be a perfect person, and could not be subject to errors?
Good for you, BTW for choosing Business College, as this can open up many doors for you as I am sure it has! Now after this I understand you continued in your depression and got skinny, and were driven, and I submit to you that while “strange” to some, this is a recipe of life that works for many, and good for you as it appears you have channeled that into positive life skills and success! Now April is reinstated, (which I think speaks volumes for her and her beliefs) and you express that you did not want to get “caught in her web” again, though I am not sure what you mean; please explain? As it appears you are both still good friends till this day!!! Which appears to be a good thing as it helped you grow up and be the person you are today, though as I understand it, not the way she or other JW’s may have envisioned it, as you walked from being a JW. I submit to you that this situation happens in all matters of life!
You well describe your experience, as some would say that whatever you did, you were abstinent during your teen, adolescent years, (a miracle in and of itself) which may be the reason why you were able to maturely examine the relationship with your first boy friend, in order to come to the conclusion that he was unstable and along with the realization that he was not the person for you! These appear to be good calls, obviously from a good place and training! His running to the elders I think supports his instability, maybe he was trying desperately to keep you or something etc. You say he was privately reproved, and then disfellowshipped. If I understood this correctly, then he must have done something else or persisted in certain other activities in addition to what he was reproved for, in order to go from the private reproof to being DF’d. Is this correct? Because they never DF someone if they are reproved? So I guess that he may have been repeated his actions with you, and if not, with someone else?
Continued Below |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 223
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 6:58 pm: |
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(part 3 of 5)
Now when this happened, you describe it as the final blow to you, not agreeing with the decision of the elders, taking the action to DF him, as they did not do so with you? I can tell you that two people can do the same crime in society, and the court system may hand down different sentences, and I submit to you that in a religious setting, like that of the JW, it would be similar, thereby treating people differently, because of what is perceived to be mitigating circumstances, and many other issues etc. However this is not unfair or double dealing because of the circumstances as mentioned. Also they cannot read hearts, they can only (and this applies to any religious group) take what the person expresses, at their word, and actions, along with prayer and a consensus among the three (usually a committee is three though could be more) and then make a decision that they feel is in line with what is in harmony with God’s word the Bible. However, it appears that the problem arose with or from what occurred in the relationship which then ended up in the manner that it did, adding to your growing disillusionment! I don’t know what more can be reasonably expected from a human group that worships God when they do not have any supernatural abilities, like that of reading hearts! But I am open to your thoughts on this?
I think because the JW’s claim to worship God in Spirit and Truth (in a approved manner) and as such feel that they are the ones God is using today, that they should somehow have supernatural powers, and be able to see through “lead” and people, like read their hearts, and this is not the case. There is no one group or people today that can do this, despite all of us having God’s the Bible. I think people expect those claiming to be approved by God to have these supernatural traits thereby giving them and everyone else, absolute proof, they are in fact GOD’s PEOPLE and along with that expecting that they are not to make mistakes, which is simply not what the Bible states would occur in Christianity at all! May I ask you, what made you feel that should have been able to do this?
When you met your second boyfriend, and April suggested you just stop going, or as you put it, “fade away” you chose to send them a letter in order to avoid them hunting you down (learning from the experience from your sister) and have more committee meetings; therefore I understand how you felt; and though April appears to still be your friend and is also a JW and you love and appreciate her, as you spoke of her earlier, as having had a great positive influence on your life in and so April appears to be a very good person yet a JW.
Continued Below |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 224
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 7:00 pm: |
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(Part 4 od 4 not 5, sorry)
Concerning the elders calling you to verify your position as stated in your letter; I would guess that they also wanted to see if they could possible change your mind though then made a statement to the congregation that you were now disassociated, which in effect confirmed and respected your wishes and let others know that as well, in order to avoid them trying to bother you about your decision as well; what I don’t get here is, what did they do that you perceive as bad or against you in this instance? Their use of the terminology “disassociated” is simply understood that you no longer consider yourself of one JW’s. I believe it is stated that way in their Organization Book that they give to those who get baptized.
You now tell us about your sister and parents who seem to be wonderful people and it is good you have such a family and a marvelous relationship with them as not all people do, (regardless of their faith) good for you! When your parents, left, were they hunted down in order to get them disfellowshipped, or did they just stop attending meetings, and move on with their lives and different or new way of thinking or religion? Please respond to this? I am glad they did not limit contact with you and or your sister, since as JW’s they are to continue to love their children and care for them, just not have any worship with them!
I find that in many instances, when family members are disfellowshipped, and the family chooses to stay away from them, that ALL the JW’s get the blame, when the family for it’s own reasons (many times it has nothing to do with religion) choose to purposely stay away from them for a time etc.! And many or most of the people complaining about this, who are DF’d do not give the entire story (as this would mean making them look bad) and simple do what easily comes to them, blame the JW’s when there is usually plenty of blame to go around!
You seem to be a well rounded and educated individual and for what it’s worth, something good and positive must have occurred during your childhood and while growing up to make you the person you are today, including your family and April your JW friend!
Well I thank you for taking the time to express your thoughts and experiences, and very much look forward to hearing from you!
Sincerely,
P |
crawly
Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 84
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.81.217
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 8:34 pm: |
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mary.......... pratetorian is someone who posts the jw false prophet views........matt 24;24
he is an expert. |
crawly
Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 85
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.81.217
| | Posted on Friday, August 17, 2007 - 8:37 pm: |
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mary.......... pratetorian is someone who posts the jw false prophet views........matt 24;24
he is an expert. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 241
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Monday, August 20, 2007 - 12:16 pm: |
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Mariabee:
I very much look forward to your response.
Crawly, please allow her to see the post in order to respond accordingly before you continue to attack me, as the readers of this thread know you quite good at attacks.
P |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 11
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 2:50 pm: |
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Crawly: Thanks for the heads up. I've been spending some time on this board and have become fairly familiar with the personalities of those that post most 
Praetorian: I will do my best to address your questions above, so as to round out my story. I've told it so many times, that I sometimes omit things without realizing it.
Sexuality - I don't think it's normal for an eight year old to be scared that God will punish her or that the elders at her church care if she has a crush on a boy. I was aware of sexual sin from a very very very young age and I think this had a negative effect. Whether this happens via religion or other means, I think it is harmful to healthy development.
My Baptism - Yes, people of many religions find themselves going through the motions for their family or community. I genuinely thought I was doing the right thing and that I was in the right religion when I got baptized. However, I think fourteen is too young to make life committing decision like this. But that's just my opinion.
Awe - I had experiences of awe and connection to all as a child (and still do), because I was a JW I contextualized these experiences into the JW dogma and saw the experiences as evidence that I was in the "right" religion. However, I now see that these experiences were spontaneous openings that could be interpreted in many ways.
My sister's point is that she would believe anything completely that she was raised with, so she has chosen to believe nothing (and from there has found information to disprove many of the JW stances, but has not found a personal spiritual path and resists anything like that).
I agree that children believe what they are told, the way they are raised. That is normal and natural.
I do not believe there is one right religion. I am uncomfortable with organized religion and dogma. I consider myself spiritual and use a number of practices to deepen my own awareness of all-that-is and connect to deeper/higher Self.
(more reply in next post) |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 12
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 3:02 pm: |
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Response to Praetorian continued . . .
Depression: Of course teens become depressed in any religion or upbringing. My mother was a depressed teen, so we could even say it was partially hereditary in my case. The stifling environment of the JW's and my feeling of not being able to think my own thoughts or map out my own future was very disheartening. There were invisible bonds, walls, gags, etc., constricting and controlling me inside and out.
April: Very close friendships between girls in their teens and early twenties can be extremely intense. I was completely obsessed with April long before we ever became friends, so once we were friends it was a very heady experience. When she got DF'd I felt very very betrayed, not only had I lost my best friend and mentor, but also another person that was involved. So, when she was reinstated I wanted to just stay away from the whole mess, but of course my incredible attraction to her and her extremely strong personality made that impossible at the time.
I don't know that I would say that her being reinstated is a testement to her faith, but rather a testement to her tenacity and desire to appear to be good for her very close knit family.
Up until I was 18 or so I thought that JW's that sinned got caught, or turned themselves in, and then were dealt with accordingly. Finding out that people did things and hid them, was what I found disillusioning . . . Of course now that I am older and far less naive I see that this is all a matter of survival under bizarre circumstances. I don't think anyone is, or should be, perfect. But back then I believed what I had been told my whole life . . .
(more response to follow) |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 272
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 71.226.54.24
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 7:46 pm: |
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Mariabee:
I want to thank you for responding to me, especially in the kind manner you chose, and for taking the time to share your well expressed thoughts.
I think you will be a good asset to this board and wish you many years of success in your endeavors.
I look forward the other posts you indicate above you will provide.
I would like to ask; do you believe the things you describe about the JW’s, (like people doing things and hiding them etc.) existed in and among God’s chosen people Israel? If your answer is no, then I be to differ with you! If you respond yes, then I submit to you another question; “supposing” (imagine) there is a replacement for Israel today, a chosen people, that I will call “Spiritual Israel” (for God to keep his promise to Abraham, my take on this) would you not expect to find in and among them people doing the same thing you describe that the Israelites did? This is my point.
It appears from the holy writings that worship is patterned, and God went out of his way to ensure that the Bible recorded this fact. Now, this system of patterned worship with Israel was rejected and now a new nation of Christians would replace them with Jewish proselytizes being its first members. Christianity began to flourish and splintered, against themselves, people causing this not God, thus the question for consideration is: Did God lose control of the situation, not being able to have a people to replace Israel? Or do you feel that God saw no need to do this thereby allowing for a kind of free for all of just about anyone called Christian to worship him?
Thank you again responding to me.
Sincerely,
P |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 13
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 7:52 pm: |
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Further reply to Praetorian . . .
My first BF and the Elder's Meeting: We were supposed to meet together, but I insisted on doing it separately. I didn't want to see him. I was waaay too mad at him for telling on us. Yes, he did it in an attempt to get me back. He had it in his head that I broke up with him out of guilt, so he thought confessing our sins would bring us back together. I was privately reproved. He was NOT reproved, he was disfellowshipped. I believe he was disfellowshipped (while I was only privately reproved) because 1) the elders didn't know him, he was from another congregation and 2) he had severe emotional damage from childhood trauma that made it so he could not tell the truth under duress, rather he says what he THINKS you want to hear. So, likely his story made no sense and did not match to mine, so they didn't know what to do with him and DF'd him. That's my take on it. I really don't know what transpired at his elders' meeting.
I was 21. I was worn out, confused, and just plain tired of the whole thing. I had very little life experience and being a JW was all I had ever known. Yes, I expected the elders to handle me and my ex boyfriend in a fair and somewhat equal manner. Also, I pretty much knew that they weren't mind or heart readers, but I wanted them to be, and when they proved unable to see through my lies of self-preservation, I couldn't respect them anymore. Does it make logical sense, no, but again, I was 21, scared, tired, naive, and DONE (I just didn't fully realize it yet).
Yes, April is still a friend, I get an occasional email (1-3 times a year). However, it will never be the same, because she is a JW and I am not. Difficult, but simple.
Also, when I chose to write the letter it had nothing to do with my sister. She was never baptized (smart girl!). It had to do with my own epxerience with the elders' meeting I had just had less than two months before. I NEVER wanted to go through that again.
(more come, later) |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 14
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 8:59 pm: |
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Continued response to Praetorian . . . now where was I?
My disassociation: When the elders called to verify my letter, I just found it icky and uncomfortable. I understood that it was one of their rules to make the call and verify that I really wanted to leave, but it was the last conversation I wanted to have at the time. It bothered me personally, but I don't hold it against them. I find the term Disassociated soooooo funny, because I'm a psychology major. In psychology it means something else entirely
Wikepedia's page about Dissociation (yeah, spelled a bit differently, but basically the same root words) starts this way, "Dissociation is a state of acute mental decompensation in which certain thoughts, emotions, sensations, and/or memories are compartmentalized because they are too overwhelming for the conscious mind to integrate." Hmmm, this is sometimes how I felt when I was a JW!
My parents: As of yet my parents have not had any negative action taken against them for no longer attending meetings. They were fairly inactive for years anyway, but now they no longer believe at all. My mother recently had a "shepherding call" and the elders were floored when she was all smiles and said she is happier then she has been in years, hee hee.
I think I addressed everything in your first posts/replies to me. Hope you've enjoyed the story!
~ Maria Bee
Executive Director in Training, Factnet |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 15
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Tuesday, August 21, 2007 - 9:09 pm: |
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Response to Praetorian's most recent post above . . .
Of course I now understand that all human organizations are flawed and full of people that make mistakes. However, at the time I was under the belief that I was in the RIGHT organization and therefore, while these things happened, they were taken care of and righted asap. That's what I thought at the time, that was my paradigm at 18 - 21 years of age.
As someone that studied the Bible fairly intensely during the first 20 or so years of my life I am well aware of the Isrealites' many shortcomings and mistakes. As a JW I would shake my head and be glad I knew better and that I was living in such a special time, etc. etc.
As for the second part of your question. I believe that the Israelites (and Jews today) believe that they are God's chosen people. However, I don't believe in that sort of god or that sort of arrangement. I respect their beliefs, but they are not mine or part of my worldview. Therefore, for me, the question is moot.
My current view of God is very very different from the view of JW's, most Christians, and really from most Western peoples. I try to interact with the divine on many levels. As something separate and above me (similar to the God idea most Western people have), but also as part of me (my true Self), and as ALL that is. Without going way off track, that is the simplest way I can express my own current attitude towards God/The Divine/Source, or whatever one wishes to call it.
Till next time . . .
Maria Bee
Executive Director in Training, Factnet |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 19
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 2:19 am: |
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To Praetorian,
I would love to hear your story. I have spent a bit of time here on the board and seen many of your posts. I would love to know more about you.
Sincerely,
Maria Bee |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 275
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 12:13 pm: |
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Mariabee:
I have very much indeed enjoyed your experiences as well as the wit and candor you show!
With regards to me; I signed onto this board for other reasons having to do with corporate/business matters, and then glanced at religion in general, and while having experience with various religions, though mostly with JW’s, thought I would add my “Two Cents” which was theme of my very first post.
After reading several posts, I found people were mainly angry and were frequently expressing views that were absolutely incorrect peddled as fact in their emotions, and so I began chasing after those, some to correct-where possible, some in fun, and some in opposition, that were not so fun, or rather no longer enjoyable!!!
I am sorry If I disappoint you for not sharing here my personal life’s experiences, as regardless of what they are (and they are quite interesting to say the least, from religious to professional etc) I am not willing to subject them to the vicious whims of persons that will have not have the same respect for them as say; they would for you as Executive Director of this board!
Again, I thank you very much for the time you took to respond to my queries and applaud you for your responses as well as what you have been able to do with your life, despite the obstacles you encountered!
Sincerely,
P |
junefever
Junior Member
Username: junefever
Post Number: 35
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.172.116.155
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 1:01 pm: |
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"After reading several posts, I found people were mainly angry and were frequently expressing views that were absolutely incorrect peddled as fact in their emotions, and so I began chasing after those, some to correct-where possible"
Which "incorrect" views are you referring to? I haven't read all of your posts, but I picked up on a tactic you like to use, rather like "bait and switch." Rather than specifically addressing the issue that JWs promote dying rather than accepting a blood transfusion, you claim "JWs aren't anti-medical treatment." That wasn't the issue. You think by distracting people from the real issue, you're addressing their concerns. In reality, no one suggested JWs opposed medical treatment in general. You're trying to re-frame the argument.
The "myths" you claim being circulated by people about the JWs, including they smoke cannibis (?), don't send their children to school, or any of a host of other outlandish statements you claim people have said about them are being created by you in an effort to side-step the real issues.
Obviously most people posting here have an in-depth knowledge of the JW religion, just as you do. You cannot dazzle us with global statements about what JWs believe and don't believe; we know full well what they are about. And it's not about anger or emotion per se; it's about exposing JWs and their tactics to help warn others what they are in for if they get sucked in. I know, it's hard for JWs to accept that anyone would have legitimate reasons for exposing them; it's simply easier to characterize any opposers as hateful, vengeful, and angry.
"I am sorry If I disappoint you for not sharing here my personal life’s experiences, as regardless of what they are (and they are quite interesting to say the least, from religious to professional etc) I am not willing to subject them to the vicious whims of persons that will have not have the same respect for them as say; they would for you as Executive Director of this board!"
Where has anyone put other's down for sharing their personal experiences with the JWs? Again projecting. And playing some sort of persecuted martyr. JWs like to do that.
And, that's okay if you don't care to share your personal experiences with the JWs on this board. Many of us here know exactly why you won't. And it's not for the glib, emotional, martyr-esque reason you're claiming. |
praetorian
Intermediate Member
Username: praetorian
Post Number: 276
Registered: 3-2005
Posted From: 70.89.75.242
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 1:44 pm: |
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Junefever:
Point made!
P |
crawly
Intermediate Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 126
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.81.78
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 4:30 pm: |
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yup, preatorian is not who he claims to be, that is why he can't explain who he is.
i always get a good laugh at the jw leadership when they claim they are not a jw as they do their tricky talk side stepping drag the red herring across the trail act, because the truth about them is being exposed.
preatorian, the gig is up buddy!.... your organization is loosing members in droves due to the abundant number of ex-jws that know how to debate your cult tactics.
everywhere you show up, an ex-jw will eventually show up and expose your tricks. |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 21
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 64.85.244.43
| | Posted on Wednesday, August 22, 2007 - 11:11 pm: |
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I had no idea that they did this, until I started doing my investigation.
I am still able to easily access my worldview and general beliefs and way of being from that time in my life (after all, it was my formative years), and I CAN NOT imagine lying and saying I wasn't a JW, just to get information or whatever. It seems totally counter to what I was taught and how I was raised. Fascinating. |
junefever
Junior Member
Username: junefever
Post Number: 36
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.172.116.155
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 2:07 am: |
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"and I CAN NOT imagine lying and saying I wasn't a JW, just to get information or whatever. It seems totally counter to what I was taught and how I was raised."
I agree. Legitimate organizations would not need to resort to such tactics in order to defend themselves or to attract new recruits. That's part of the reason many of us familiar with how they work want to expose their tactics. |
crawly
Intermediate Member
Username: crawly
Post Number: 129
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 4.240.81.63
| | Posted on Thursday, August 23, 2007 - 9:48 am: |
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most people who just hung around the out-skirts of jehovah's witnesses, didn't noctice the corruption as much.
but if you were more active, and gung ho, or a poioneer and involved in the leadership, then you would have noticed..... their favorite tool is to shush it all up, side-step and tell another lie. |
mariabee
New member
Username: mariabee
Post Number: 22
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 69.236.182.146
| | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 2:17 pm: |
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I grew up in a strongly believing family with a moderate level of involvement. My mom pioneered full-time before she had me and then would do the one month thing once every couple years. My dad was a ministerial servant, helped with the literature counter, sound for the hall, theocratic ministry school assignments, etc. We attended all the meetings every week (3 days, 5 meetings) and went out in service every week for a couple hours. I was a "publisher" from about age 8 or 9.
I believed it all and thought all JW's, especially at the top, were good, honest, kind, righteous people. I had a strong sense of integrity (still do) and thought that the elders, pioneers, top folks, had integrity as well. Of course I saw the human cracks as I got older (see my story above), but I didn't know they would actually deny they were JW's to get information or sway people. Sounds really wrong. Kind of reminds me of Peter when Jesus was taken . . . (though his motives were different).
Maria Bee
Executive Director in Training, Factnet |
junefever
Junior Member
Username: junefever
Post Number: 38
Registered: 8-2007
Posted From: 67.172.116.155
| | Posted on Friday, August 24, 2007 - 6:13 pm: |
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"I believed it all and thought all JW's, especially at the top, were good, honest, kind, righteous people. I had a strong sense of integrity (still do) and thought that the elders, pioneers, top folks, had integrity as well. Of course I saw the human cracks as I got older (see my story above), but I didn't know they would actually deny they were JW's to get information or sway people. Sounds really wrong."
I think in general women are shielded from seeing the inner workings of the JWs (well, that is, if they keep their "nose clean," which it sounds like you did. If they don't they might get exposure to a committee meeting, and probably be unprepared to deal with it).
The JWs are after all an incredibly sexist organization. There are ex elders and ministerial servants who have more insight into the inner workings of JWs. Some of them have exposed things few of the rank and file would see.
As with any man-made corporation, the higher you get, the more corruption you see. And if you've got a certain carte blanche because you're claiming to be a religious corporation, you've got a double whammy of corruption.
I've learned a lot more than I ever would have imagined based on the testimony of people who were "up there" but have since left. Nothing I didn't really suspect in my heart of hearts, though. |
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