| Author | Message | ||
     michael (172.186.107.189) |
Ave Satanus We worship Satan the God of Truth http://www.geocities.com/thesynagogueofsatan | ||
| Anonymous (172.147.65.88) |
Satan Sucks! | ||
| Jesus Christ SuperStar (207.231.70.51) |
man promote away sell koolaid and hump iraqi dictators dude ever hear of reality? satan is lost that means he is a loser that means he cant possibly win Quote "we worship satan" does that mean we as is you? quote"God of truth" LOL the only truth of the matter is that he is a liar perhaps you could call forth a ball or lightning from your arse and light the candle on your cake | ||
| Sharon. (142.177.72.68) |
JCS...Ha Ha nice one, you rock. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.66.150) |
To the first poster, what kind of Satanist are you? Levayan, Lucifarian, an unaffiliated theistic Satanist of some sort. As a fellow Satanist,(A REAL ONE, NOT ONE OF THOSE CHRISITANS POSING AS ONE!), I am just curious. -da666 | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.66.150) |
To the rest of the posters, please, do the rest of us actual Satanists a favor, don't apply what you know about Christianity to Satanism and expect us to claim thats what we believe, because it isn't. Most of us are atheistic, and only see the whole "Satan" entity as an archetype. Not a real being. More of a role model if you will. We don't look at the Bible as a literal or factual document, it isn't even a factor in our faith. I have nothing against Christians, I am just sick of all the stereotypes about us that Christian fundies seem so devoted to spreading. And it bugs me to here, see, or read them posed or promoted as fact, even if it isn't directly expressed. -da666 | ||
| Sharon (142.177.8.80) |
Anon... Nice role model, but gee, gosh, you mean satan is not real, then I guess you are not a real satanist, I guess there are no real satanist. Wow what will you call yourself now, maybe just da would actually do. Or maybe you were just trying to think of your number, you should write it on the palm of your hand if you can not remember it. It is so cute how you and Fluff call us Christian fundies, you even sound alike. Tell me as a satanist did you give the kiss, we know you must. I think that would be to much of a price to pay but then look what you get. To serve him and the follow him to hell. Still it must be kind of embarrasing with the whole world knowing ah? A real live, what the hell do we call you if there is no satan, and what is that about not looking at our bible as factual, what kind of satanist are you, not a factor in your faith, it is the corner stone of your faith. You my friend are not a satanist. I have read your bible and not only is is a factor it is used in services. Shame on you pretending to be a satanist. You are a satanist want to be. | ||
| Ball of Fluff (24.17.18.246) |
Sharon, DA666 is telling you what he believes and does and what he does not believe and does not do. So there's no question of his having to have received "the kiss" (hey! Was it a nice tonguey kiss- enquiring minds wanna know!). Anyway, point is, he knows what he is, thinks and has done, and what he has not. And if you were courteous, you'd listen instead of TELLING him what he is, has done, etc. You're not in a position to know what he does. He is. So shaddup an' let da man talk. Quit being a snot. | ||
| Sharon (142.177.82.4) |
Fluff I can not say that I am sorry to the person who says they are a satanist. I will not be part of such a thing. I meant what I said. I think that this angers you some how, why it should I can not understand. See your satanist speaking of his faith, what faith is that, he is a satanist who doesn't worship satan who doesn't really exist. Who does he place his faith in then? See, just not kosher. You call me a snot and tell me to shut up and you want me to be more courteous, see that is just the thing that tells me you do not understand, My Father says I should rejoice when people call me names. See that makes me stronger and then it tells me I am on the right road. But to be called names on the satanist board, why thats an honor. You may not believe this fluff but the reason I spend so much time annoying you is that I want you to listen. I do not need to hear what satanist say, I have met him and he is not a gentleman. I take that back it is not even fair to call him a man even in jest, God made a much better creation when he made man. I worry that your devil may care attitude is going to get you into trouble. I do not know if you believe what you are saying but just in case you do I feel I must say that you should take another look at the messages on the other board and see what people are saying to you. You do not need to even read one of mine, read the others. If you do not see that satanist are more than some seekers looking for a good life then if you do discover that years from now remember this board and I am sure if anyone is still here they will be able to tell you that Jesus Christ is way. I wish I knew what destroyed your faith. You are in my prayers | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
I have sparred with Ball of Fluff on other boards before. My summation is that mainly she is Anti-Christian. She acts like she is defending whatever religion is the topic. But her message is Anti-Christianity. She is a Scientologist. This I know. Former catholics go different ways. Other areas of Christianity, protestantism. Belief in nothing. Or a different religion. Or New Age. Fluff has gone New Age (scientology). Fluff and TBF.... criticise Christians. Yet when you ask them what their beliefs are, they act indignant and tell us it is none of our business. Been there, done that with both of them. I think they are Anti-Christian more than anything else. Maybe deep down inside they are jealous because we have it right and they don't. ? | ||
| Don (168.103.135.236) |
Sharon, just ignore fluff | ||
| Ball of Fluff (24.17.18.246) |
Anon, To make such an accusation stick, you'd have to actually find posts where I've criticized Christianity. And there are none. I've not criticized Christianity on this or on any forum, and I've no intention of so doing. Therefore, saying that I've criticized Christianity is a lie. My cousin's a minister and I'm very proud of her. Another cousin's an evangelical Protestant. Some dear family friends whom I've known since I was 3 are members of a church that directly descends from the Puritan church and were, recently, at my Dad's funeral. I sent the lady flowers soon after that when she went into the hospital. And I love these people. My Mom was a very devout Catholic, and I was very proud of her as well. Partly because these women acted and still act (in the case of my cousins) like Christians. My best friend is a devout Protestant and I've encouraged her in her practice of her faith. I think that's great. I'd like to see her join a congregation where she felt comfortable and start meeting people there. I very much enjoyed the time I spent as a Catholic and as a member of a religious order, as well. I consider "The Passion" to be the greatest movie I'd ever seen and have been encouraging people to see it. I also think that agnostics, atheists, etc, should bring their children up as Jewish or Christian so that the children are familiar with the prevailing religious beliefs of our culture (which in this neck of the woods happens to be Jewish or Christian rather than Islamic or Hindu) and can have some beliefs to rely on until they get old enough to make up their own minds, rather than bringing them up with nothing. And I've encouraged friends of mine to do just that. I am not a member of the Church of Scientology. As to my beliefs, well, you've said it. I don't discuss them on this board, I have stopped discussing them on all the other boards to which I participate. Therefore, following that with an accusation of being new age is illogical since you do not, in fact, know what my beliefs are. You could do a net search from back when I did discuss them, 'cept I've changed them since then, so that won't get you anywhere. There is no point in my discussing my beliefs when I am discussing Satanism as a non Satanist. Were I a Satanist, then that would be relevant. If I belonged to an association or church that opposed it, then that might be relevant as well. However, I don't belong to either. As far as being "jealous"- this was and is a discussion of Satanism. And I was discussing it from the perspective of someone who is not an adherent or member of such. So that's just some silly made up thing. Making the post all about the person rather than about what the person's saying (Well, you did say I criticized Christianity- but, problem is, I never have and never intend to.) is not indicative of effective debate technique regarding the topic at hand. The topic at hand is Satanism. What I see are some people getting very hot under the collar because of their opinions on that topic, but, during that, flinging a lot of off topic ad hominem nonsense around, and then, when an actual Satanist does pop up, not accepting what he describes as his belief system and/or practices. Followed by more personalized non sequitur commentary. | ||
| Ball of Fluff (24.17.18.246) |
Sharon, I've not exhibited any such attitude. I am a non Satanist discussing Satanism. Period. That's all I am to you. Anything else exists solely in your mind. And that is rather odd, to be speculating about some cyberstranger who is only discussing a religion which she does not profess. I've not said anything about my faith or if it was destroyed. You don't know what my beliefs are. Last I checked, this was a discussion about Satanism. Feel free to start a topic called Ball of Fluff. It would be silly and ad hominem, but at least then, this sort of commentary would be relevant to the topic under discussion.Unlike now. | ||
| Ball of Fluff (24.17.18.246) |
Sharon, On second thought, though, I will apologize for being sarcastic with you. Now that I think about it, that must be what you meant by my attitude. I tend to get that way when I think people are making assumptions about me rather than discussing the subject matter.(also I have no idea what this kiss thing is and why you think DA666 would have experienced it. AFAIK, not everybody in every belief system does the same things.) But, still, I shouldn't have. (been sarcastic, I mean) | ||
| Douglas (68.192.60.127) |
Ball of Fluff Anonymous presumes things that are not true. Perhaps that's why anonymous is anonymous, false conclusions coming from the shadow of anonimity. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.189.203) |
Sharon, “then I guess you are not a real Satanist” And I guess you are speaking from a position of ignorance on what a Satanist is anyway, so your statement falls flat on its face. And, DA666, is an abbreviation of an alias I use at another board. “Christian fundies, you even sound alike.” I am not calling YOU a fundy, I am just speaking about Christian fundamentalists in general. But, judging by your previous posts, you are starting to sound like one. “Tell me as a satanist did you give the kiss, we know you must. I think that would be to much of a price to pay but then look what you get. To serve him and the follow him to hell. Still it must be kind of embarrasing with the whole world knowing ah?” Now you lost me, apparently you think I am a theistic Satanist, a Christian Satanist no less. Now that’s insulting. I signed no contract, I made no pledge, I signed no “Black Book”, this isn’t something out of the Salem Witch Hunts or Medieval Europe. I met no horned demon asking me for my soul. But, you act as though that shit really goes on, so, my question to you is, what’s your source? Or are you making assumptions on what Satanist believe given your knowledge of what the Satan of Christianity means to Christians? “what is that about not looking at our bible as factual,” Because, I AM AN ATHEISTIC SATANIST! WE ARE NOT CHRISTIANS! I AM NOT A CHRISTIAN! This is like asking you why you don’t look at the Qur’an as factual, it mentions God, Jesus, the Prophets, etc. Or for that matter, why not the Vedas or the Dhamapada? “what kind of satanist are you,” An atheistic Satanist. You know, a REAL ONE. Not your Christian-stereotype devil worshipper straight out of a crappy Christian pulp novel. “not a factor in your faith, it is the corner stone of your faith.” Again, you know nothing about what I believe; you are speaking out of your ass. Is Billy Graham or Jerry Falwell your definitive source on Satanism? Or do you think we all follow the thoughts and ideals of Anton LeVay? “You my friend are not a satanist.” And you, my friend, are not a Christian. Note to absurdity of that? You do not know me, nor my beliefs, and you know nothing of what an actual Satanist believes, so your whole position is founded on what are your preconceived notions of Satanism and what it means to be a Satanist. “I have read your bible and not only is is a factor it is used in services.” And you think I attend services? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHA!!!!!!!! “Shame on you pretending to be a satanist. You are a satanist want to be.” HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!! When you grow up and stop resorting to ad hominem attacks to make a point, then maybe you might be able to listen. But who am I to question the vast knowledge of Satanism held by a non-Satanist who follows the ideas that we are a bunch of Dr. Faustus knock-offs? (Oh dear, my sarcasm must be showing…) “I will not be part of such a thing. I meant what I said.” Oh, and that’s supposed to hurt me feelings? Your words have little weight with me. “Who does he place his faith in then? See, just not kosher.” I place faith in my self, and, if you don’t like what I believe, fine. I really don’t care. I am not asking you for your approval. Maybe you wouldn’t get called so many names on the Satanism boards if you actually followed Jesus’ commandment to treat others how you wish to be treated. But I thought, as you are a Christian, that you would know that already. “I do not need to hear what satanist say, I have met him and he is not a gentleman. I take that back it is not even fair to call him a man even in jest, God made a much better creation when he made man.” You have never met me, or an actual Satanist for that matter. And, on the possibility that you have met a real Satanist, they probably did their damndest to get as far away from you as humanly possible, you are utterly intolerant of differences, and your prejudice against Satanism oozes from every letter you write. And you call your self a Christian, what happened to Jesus’ teaching about loving one’s neighbor as you would love yourself? And you have the audacity to claim I am not a Satanist. Fluff, The “kiss” thing, is probably something Sharon got from some Salem Witch Hunt story, or some Medieval bullshit story. I know I have heard it from somewhere, but I don’t remember, I think maybe 11th grade English class. Something about making a pact with the Devil. But, I haven’t made nay pact with anything, and Sharon already has an idea in her mind of what a Satanist is, and what Satanism is, regardless of the fact that the concepts and ideas she has about Satanism is bullshit. But she already has made up her mind, so it is really useless to argue with her. It goes in one ear and out the other. -da666 | ||
| Douglas (68.192.60.127) |
Anon psuedo satanist You argue and then say it is useless to argue. Perhaps you just like to practice hissing. You write like you have no idea who Satan is. Athiests can't believe in satan because satan is a god. Satan is the god of this world and pride and greed and all of his lovely traits are dominant in this present age. I used to worship Satan but I would have never thought of myself as a satanist. I didn't even conciously think of his existence but at one point I started to see the devil's fool I was. | ||
| Sharon (142.177.82.115) |
Douglas.... Thanks for the smile, practice hissing, very funny. Anon.. My source is the lord of mosquitos himself, you never met him, that must be sad for a satanist. You can not be one, for I already stated that My Father tells me I should rejoice when someone calls me names, why would a satanist bring me joy. Well thanks anyway. By the way if I should ever begin to call myself a satanist I would pray others would say to me what I have said to you and I would pray that I hear it, do unto others. I do not hate satanist , I hate satan, I do not hate skin heads, I hate satan, I do not hate cultist, I hate satan, I feel pity for those trapped into his system of lies. You do not have the power to hurt me with your slurrs, for you claim to be a satanist, so your opinion of me mean nothing. Now if Douglas said I was not a christian I would feel differently because he is a christian. I respect his opinion, see how it works. You calling us names gives us joy and you have already been told that and yet you can not stop yourself from doing so. See how kind our Father is to us, he brings you here to give us joy and frustrate you. My father also loves you, ask him and he will tell you. He brought you here for a reason and it is not for us here because you have no real effect on Christians , so it must be for you. May God Be With You. | ||
| bee (4.235.45.240) |
Anon. 4.249.189.203, I was wondering if you could tell me, you said you were a Atheistic Satanist. Could you explain this to me more? Who is Satan to your type of Satanist? You also said that you place your faith in self so I am confused to just what this type of satanist would believe then. Thanks. I am a born again Christian but I realize that we all come from different backgrounds & therefore try hard to understand everyone on a individual basis. That & the fact that my great grandparents were heavily into satanism & witchcraft. I understand that I was under the control of Satan up until nearly 30 years of age at which point God showed me my evil & who Satan was in my life. He also showed me hell & how I would end up if I did not change my ways. I believe the Bible to be the inspired Word of God able to change lives if it is recieved & goes into the deep parts of us. I believe Jesus Blood to be the only payment for sins & I hope for as many as the Lord allows to come to this saving knowledge. I agree with Douglas that while I was controlled by Satan I did not realize who it was who was controlling me or even understand the extent of his evil. I say none of this to challenge your beliefs, simply expressing myself as I am open to hearing your heart also. I hope you come to know Jesus as Savior but I would never push Him on you & realize if it is God the Father's plan for you to see this He will show you. Bless You Anon. | ||
| Ball of Fluff (66.107.60.82) |
Bee, You are terrific! You remind me of my family members and friends who are Christian. Their approach is that of love and tolerance, as is yours. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.168.254) |
Sharon, “My source is the lord of mosquitos himself, you never met him, that must be sad for a satanist. You can not be one, for I already stated that My Father tells me I should rejoice when someone calls me names, why would a satanist bring me joy. Well thanks anyway.” Wow. You mean Beelzebub? Lord of the Flies? Of the Torah and New Testament I am assuming. You think that I am depressed about not meeting a mythical figure of Christian belief. But I thought you were a Christian, not a practitioner of Demonolatry. There is a big difference between the two beliefs. You confuse Satanism with Demonolatry. “your opinion of me mean nothing.” Like wise, I just find your hypocracy to be nothing short of endless. But it isn’t you I hate; it’s your hypocrisy and intolerance that I hate. You are commanded by Jesus to show kindness and compassion to others, yet you spew nothing but hate and openly ridicule others who have differing beliefs than yours. That is where I find the hypocrisy in your arguments. You claim to follow a man that preached loving your fellow man, and to lead through acts of kindness, yet you show nothing but contempt for those who are different from you. Shame on you! Makes me think you aren’t a real Christian at all, but a follower of Paul. “My father also loves you, ask him and he will tell you.” My experience with “the Father”, is less than rosey, as such a link I once had with it was broken at an early age, not through an action of my own or anyone else’s but throught the direct action of “the Father”. So, forgive my lack of enthusiasm with your statement. Your “Father”, left me to my own devices early in life, almost abandoned really. But, you are a Christian, and probably would understand this at all. Bee, “I was wondering if you could tell me, you said you were a Atheistic Satanist. Could you explain this to me more? Who is Satan to your type of Satanist? You also said that you place your faith in self so I am confused to just what this type of satanist would believe then. Thanks.” Well, fair enough. As a Satanist, I don’t believe in the “Lord of Darkness” that is found in Christianity. I interpret Satan’s actions in the Bible differently than Christians, such as the Temptations of Jesus, to me, was an example of Satan doing its job from the Torah/Old Testament as the Adversary. While not evil, Satan(s),(there are cases that there are multiples), Satan’s purpose in the Torah is to “get in the way”, so to speak, of humans. I see the myth of Satan’s “fall from grace” as an example of a symbolic argument, is it better to think for one’s self, to seek to become better as an individual, or to follow rules in which you find no justification for and find restraining rather than liberating? To me, Satan, symbolizes the need in humans to find out their own truths, to make their own path in life, and the necessity to break free of the restraints of rigid, anti-humanistic rules. I am not saying all rules are bad, as a Satanist, I can distinguish what rules are practical and a good idea to follow, and rules that are forged from superstition and lead to stagnation of personal growth. So, to an atheistic Satanist, that is what Satan symbolizes, the human need to recognize one’s self as important, to find knowledge rather than shrink away from it. I am not saying that Christians don’t have this belief either, anyone, Satanist or not, can recognize their personal worth and value. We Satanists focus on it though. So, naturally, I should place some level of faith in my abilities, because if I don’t I can’t make anything better of myself. I don’t believe in some higher power coming to my rescue in my hour of need, I have to do things for myself. I am responsible for all that I do, good or bad. I recognize I have malign and benign tendencies, but they do not make me or anyone else bad. So, thus, I don’t believe in the concept of Original Sin. I believe in learning to live with such tendencies and learning to control them, so I can make not only my life more enjoyable, but the lives of those I care about enjoyable as well. I hope that helps. If you have anymore questions, just feel free to ask. Fluff, It is Christians like Bee are the reason I don’t despise Christians or Christianity. I don’t bear them any ill will, and rather enjoy that such people exist because they are always good for conversation and will actually listen. -da666 | ||
| Sharon (142.177.104.56) |
Don... I think I shall follow your good advise. No more throwing pearls before swine. That would be a sin. Besides there is to much stuff there to read, and I do not really care for whatever it is they say. Bee will tell me if they need help but I do not expect anything good to come from this. | ||
| Ball of Fluff (66.107.60.82) |
Oh, now she's calling people swine. Tsk. Reminds me of an utterly fantastic movie I saw the other night "Saved" with Mandy Moore. There's one part where the popular mean girl whom, upon being told she knows nothing of love, chucks something at the other girl, yelling between clenched teeth "I am filled with Christ's love!!" Too funny. Seems apropos somehow. --Fluffy (ducking) | ||
| bee (4.235.6.7) |
Ball of Fluff & Anon.4, Sharon & I are really not all that different & we are very close in our personal lives. She however has come from a much rougher road than I have where Satan is concerned. I believe she has met him face to face where for some reason God choose to protect me from the things she has expierenced. Please do not let the way she expresses herself keep you from hearing her message. Her intent is to keep you from the heartache that she has gone through where Satan is concerned. I posted it on the Wicca board & I will repeat it here. Satan is not going to show you the evil or harm that he intends for you until it is to late in some cases. I hope that it does not happen that way for you. God showed me hell, I know it is there. Also Anon.4 You said that you felt the Father moreless abandon you in your early life. I am sorry for this but I hope in the future you will see that it truly was not the Father rather Satan's hand to cause whatever happened to you. Lord Bless You Both. | ||
| Douglas (68.162.63.68) |
Anon 4 the need in humans to find out their own truths to find knowledge rather than shrink away from it I should place some level of faith in my abilities Surely none of these things will harm you and the first two can lead you to your creator but most people who claim to be atheists are really iconoclasts to some degree, ie they don't worship, but oppose, cast down, idols that are called gods. I still find believing in Satan and atheism to be incompatible and don't see why you label yourself that way except that perhaps you acknowledge that you are not seeking the God of the bible as you have come to understand him. I hope you find all truth and true knowledge. What do you think of the laws of physics and of relativity? | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.3.106) |
Bee, I too have been on a tough road, but it wasn’t caused by meeting “the Devil.” It was the severing of that tie I had with God while I was still around the age of 10. I don’t know how it happened; it just felt on day that I could no longer feel God’s presence in my life at all. I have had horrible dreams, nightmares really, and encounters with beings that don’t fit any kind of demon Sharon has been unfortunate enough to meet. But they were as real as you or I, and I could feel their presence with great ease. It is the way she expressed herself, with the constant attacks and insults that keep me from hearing her message. Rather than hearing a message of compassion from her, I hear nothing but hatred and cruelty. As for “Satan”, I have never personally felt this being, never have I even been confronted by it. But I have felt malign “presences”, or auras, for a lack of a better term, from people, be they are priest or a member of the laity. So thus, I don’t believe in this being of monolithic evil that is being expressed by Sharon, but that “evil”, exist because of our actions and the results of such actions. Douglas, “but most people who claim to be atheists are really iconoclasts to some degree, ie they don't worship, but oppose, cast down, idols that are called gods.” I would call those people “Maltheists”, rather than atheists, naminglingly because of their opposition to the Abrahamic God. A more mature atheist either simply doesn’t believe such a being exist, or doesn’t care about having such a being in their life, and thus, don’t waste their time in casting it down. But, I have to admit, there are quite a few atheists who do nothing but whine about a God they claim not to believe exist. “that perhaps you acknowledge that you are not seeking the God of the bible as you have come to understand him.” You are correct in your statement that I am not seeking the God of the Bible. I view “God”, as more of a being that transcends the simple understandings of humans, and thus, can’t be accurately describe in any one religion. “What do you think of the laws of physics and of relativity?” I find them to be interesting, but I will be the first to admit, that I only have a basic understanding of such, and I am not an expert in that field. I just consider it another one of the many mysteries that make up our universe, and that we should try to understand it as much as possible. If it is the creation of a higher power, then it would be best to still try to understand it. If it isn’t then it still is a mystery that tugs at our innate curiosity as humans. Either way, it is still something of interest. Surely not an irrational premise, is it? -da666 | ||
| Sharon (142.177.97.188) |
Da... I am sorry if all you heard was hatred, for it is not directed at you it is directed at a satanist, and in truth it is not even them for if it was in my power to remove them from his reach I would. I do not understand people who put themselves within his reach. I guess it makes me angry that satan has such power that he can actually get someone to call themselves a satanist and stand by that name without really knowing him. I guarentee that you would licky split yourself out of there if you could really know how he feels about you. But I am sorry if you feel my anger, but that thing steal from us and then laughs. I once to doubted the existance of satan and God, I preached against GOd, that he did not exist, and since he did not exist neither did satan. God was not impressed with my little speechs, he sent satan to show me the way and still I would not stop because I did not accept what was happening. I told what are the basics without going to far into it above on the top of this page. That is where my anger comes from, I know what happens when people try to leave satan, he accepts them with open arms. He does nothing until they want to leave. Check Jenny above, what happened to her is exactly what I am talking about. I do like to call him names, I give him no honor, for he gives man none. I tell you I have taken a beating from your non entity that was very professional and if you see movies they are pretty much right on in some things. So when I hear you talk I want to shake you and scream run run. I want the world to know who he is but he does not ususally confront people the way he did me. Not good advertising. I guess you would be surprized to know that I pray that God takes you out of satans reach or that I am praying for you at all. I know I do not always have the patience with people and I shall have to work on that. IF you really did believe in satan i would not have written back for you would be the enemy, I would have prayed for you but I would not be trying to convince you that satan is an actual entity. I see you as not knowing the danger you are in, he will destroy you life here if you try to change and if you do not he will have your soul in the next world. I hate either one, but there is a way out, the way Jenny went. Or as Jesus says follow me. That is what I wanted to say here, I left a trail of bread crumbs in case you decide to come home. Some day you may meet him also and when you know who he is you will understand why i hate him so, not for what he did to me but for what he is doing to man. He hates man and gods love of man, and it is his job to destroy us. How do you think he is doing? I really want to use foul language there but he might like that, so I shall not give him any pleasure. I meant what I said about my Father saying that I should rejoice when people call me names, and I do for you see that when you call me names it means that evil {satan} hates me. So if you do not want to give christians pleasure do not call them names. Do not say what names did I call you. I hope that in the future we are someday on the same side. Of course you do realize that we are in a war, you know good and evil, step away from the satan and kick him over here. Hope you have a good day. I shall continue to ask God to bring you to our side. Its what I do. | ||
| Ball of Fluff (66.107.60.82) |
Call Satan all the names you want, Sharon. I really don't care. But when you characterize contributors to this board as haters of ex Catholics, Swine, etc, then, well, that was name calling. | ||
| Sharon (142.177.9.40) |
Bee...Good Morning, another beautiful day. Thanks for the kind words. It does my heart good to hear such things. We are having the Franklyn Crusade here this weekend. I have not made up my mind if I shall go yet. I have never been to anything like that. I want to see what it is like with that many Christians in one place. But I do hate crowds. I will just have to get over it, bite the bullet so they say. Catch you later. | ||
| bee (4.238.15.169) |
Morning Sharon! My words of you are true. We each come from a different road & you have taught me much already. Not all have a gift to express themselves as you do but if we open our hearts we hear what you speak is love & if something is misunderstood on your part say like Fluff being insulted that you felt she was against Catholics then our love binds us together to realize we are not perfect beings & sometimes misunderstand. I saw that Fluff was not agianst Catholics & as I wrote today on the Wicca board today. I do not even believe she is against Christians, just the way that the message is expressed. Hopefully we can all become more sensitive to each other & try & understand the other. For Jesus said even the weekest parts are of most important. I feel weak when I try & go it on my own or when I feel my flesh start to rise. Guess that's why He gave us each other to keep us on path. Thanks also for being there for me to keep me on path. in love with Jesus, bee | ||
| Douglas (141.153.136.237) |
Anon 4.249 When I have more time, perhaps this weekend, I'd like to share some of my thoughts and experiences about the laws of physics. I think you'd be a fun person to discuss these ideas with. My condescendingness towards you about a psychotic follower is more towards non athiest satanists. It is a weird concept, atheist satanist, to me but you don't sound as psychotic as the average person, satanist or not. | ||
| sharon (142.177.104.118) |
Bee... hello there, top of the morning to yah. i do not think that Fluff is against anything, including witchcraft or satanism, that is the problem. Everything is ok, children practising witchcraft or satanism is fine. She says that they do not really worship satan, the satanist said satan does not really exist. Children read this board, it comes up if you type in satanism, by children I mean teenagers, the largest growing group of satanist. If she leads even on person to believe that satanism or witchcraft is a option then she goes down with them, whatever they come to be she pays for, because as you know there are no fence sitters. God makes that very clear. If I do nothing then I to join them, for I know that she is on the road and did not try to stop her. I now leave her is GOds hands and pray that he will open her eyes before she finds herself before her Father trying to explain why she was telling children that witchcraft and satanism was ok . I would feel that I failed her if I did not try to make her see her position. This board was started with "we worship satan the GOd of truth," and the web site they want people to go to, an actual place to worship the non existing satan? I fear that we do not see all the trouble in our midst, and now we are having to fight people who say even satan does not exist. | ||
| QWERTY (64.241.230.3) |
GOOD MORNING BEE AND SHARON GOD BLESS BOTH OF YOU FOR YOUR WISDOM FROM THE LORD JESUS CHRIST GREATER IS HE IN US THAN HE THAT IS IN THE WORLD | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.66.187) |
Douglas, Most Satanists, in my experience, are pretty reasonable people once you get to know them, and are atheist or at least atheistic. I have met the archetype Satanist before, and they just annoy me. They are considered the black sheep of the Satanic community, and are not accepted by Satanists as a whole. As far as I am concerned, those guys are just crazy…there isn’t any other way to put it. Sharon, The average ages of the Satanists I chat with on a consistent basis are in the range of 24 to 40. I have only met three Satanists who are under the age of 18. And the original poster, the guy is a nut. Even by Satanist standards, he came here preaching, (something we don’t do), and just wanted to rile someone up. I would just ignore him. A better site to visit on Satanism would be www.religioustolerance.org -da666 | ||
| Anonymous (172.146.69.40) |
An atheist satanist is an oxymoron. The two terms together defy all logic. | ||
| khan (68.104.120.66) |
i agree with above a true satanists knows the truths concerning religion and should have a great deal of knowlege from father and the other original gods.True statanists not only believe in father but communicate with him and the original gods,unlik the faithless religion of jehova,where u may pray forevrv and never be answered. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.3.196) |
Anon 172, If it defies your logic, then that is not my problem. Nor my concern, just thought it would be nice to let you know that. Khan, You are obviously a theistic Satanist, and I am an atheistic Satanist, and I an not going to get into a debate with you over theology. What you believe is your choice, and I am not here to tell you what to believe. That would be too authoritarian for me. Isn’t that one of the biggest problems Satanists had with mainstream religions in the first place, the constant “You should believe…”, and the hypocrisy that would so often result? Believe what you will, and I will believe what you will. I think for myself, and I really don’t care about what your standards of a “true Satanist” are. Such “standards” are inherently subjective and depend solely on what your personal beliefs are. So, you may not like the worshipers of Jehova, but by making arbitrary rules and standards for everyone to follow based on your opinions sounds like the kind of crap we as Satanists were trying to get away from in the first place. -da666 | ||
| Douglas (141.153.160.190) |
“What do you think of the laws of physics and of relativity?” I find them to be interesting, but I will be the first to admit, that I only have a basic understanding of such, and I am not an expert in that field. I just consider it another one of the many mysteries that make up our universe, and that we should try to understand it as much as possible. If it is the creation of a higher power, then it would be best to still try to understand it. If it isn’t then it still is a mystery that tugs at our innate curiosity as humans. Either way, it is still something of interest. Surely not an irrational premise, is it? -da666 I'll describe how my view on life and religion relates to the laws of physics or visa versa Once I was in the gas station waiting for my car to be repaired. The mechanic has a dog that barks the whole time anyone is there it doesn't know well. I tried to stare it down, approach it without fear, command it in a stern voice but it would just bark and snarl. I was thinking about the law of relativity. Every motion is defined by a relative stillness. You are sitting still but someone is moving in relation to you. If you went up in the sky and looked from up there you would see that you who were relatively still are spinning on the earth's axis which is still in relation to the earth. If you went to the sun you'd see the axis of the earth moving in relation to the sun. If you went out of the solar systemn you'd see the sun moving in the universe. You could go on and on until you found the ultimate stillness that defines all motion. But what if every stillness was defined by a relative motion? You got one thing moving defining a stillness but something moving faster would make the slower thing look relatively still. Eventually as matter speeds up time slows down. If you were to reach the speed where time stopped matter would cease to exist. As I was contemplating this I had a thought, That ultimate stillness that defines all motion is not just out there somewheres but if you look under a microscope things are moving, electrons around adams etc. I had this revelation that that ultimate stillness was not just out there somewheres but there was a reflection of it in me, perhaps in all matter. I got this distant feeling suddenly that I was projected here from beyond time and space like a hologram is projected from an interference pattern (if you know a little about holograms). As soon as I got that distant feeling I noticed that the dog stopped barking and put its head on its paws. I got distracted and noticed that the dog was barking again so I thought about the same thing and got the same distant feeling and the dog put its head on its paws and let out a little sigh or wimper noise. When I went to pay the bill I told the mechanic that I discovered how to subdue his dog's barking and I showed him. My awareness put me in a state quieted the dog. Motion is a weird thing. If you look at water flowing into a pool from a pump you notice that even though there are no ripples on the surface it makes shadows as if there was something solid there. Time flows like a river and gravity is like the water pressure flowing past a rock in the river of time. Gravity is the pressure of time on matter but unlike a river time flows every way at once. In the river of time matter is the eddies and whorlpools in the river, like the shadow in the pool created by motion and resistence, kind of like time slowed down or spinning, the eddies that create shadows, time moving slower or into itself. In religious parlance the kingdom of God where scripture says flesh and blood can not enter is the nothingness from which all things are defined or projected from. The ultimate silence that defines all sound, stillness that defines all motion, speed where time stopps and matter ceases to exist. Jesus solved the mystery of time and my goal on earth is to cloth myself in Jesus so that I do not burn up when I reach the speed where time stopps and matter ceases and I enter the kingdom of God. The king, God, is the intelligence behind the nothingness that formed the interference pattern through which we were created or projected. Knowledge (certain knowledge) is power. Knowledge of good and evil only gets us caught up in feelings of being good when we are not. It is a deception as if knowing good, life, could make us good, or evil, live backwards, could make us evil. People are hurt more by their resentment, reliving trauma and being rehurt in their mind each time they relive that which they did not properly deal with, than they are hurt by the actual thing that hurt them. The forgiveness Jesus taught is really a mystery to most. He taught us not to hate in return but to go to that place of stillness and be objective to ourself and subject to that original truth, the light of where we are projected from, to trust in the intelligence that we are projected here from, that created us, the nothingness from which all that exists springs forth from. Forgiveness is trusting and responding to that intelligence rather than reacting to the material world and its distractions. It is hard to explain the wordless word with words, the uncreated with created. We can only point to it. Forgiveness which seems weak is really powerful when properly understood. It can insulate you to experience eternity, infinity, that outside of time that time eminates from. Hope I didn't write too much or bore or confuse you but if you are interestd I can explain in real terms how to accomplish the ideal that the hippies so miserably failed at, how to get back into the proverbial garden of Eden. In the bible account of creation man is kicked out of Eden and a Cherubim with a sword that goes every way like a flame is put to guard the tree of life. The sword, I suspect, symbolises time. It isn't a preachy believe in Jesus thing but a mystery that gives it practical bringing it home meaning. Also I think I may understand what happened to you when God left you as a child. Love is not a feeling but sometimes one can feel love (when I say love I am talking about the nothingness that defines all things). When we are little we feel or sence that "light" so to speak, we are relatively closer to our origen, but then we get distracted from it. My wife experienced that. She denied being identified with that force when she started becoming interested in boys liking her. She traded one for the other but she is now getting back in touch with that original source. But also we can cease to feel it if we become one with it but that's another story. You challenged me before about an intelligent conversation and I respect your challenge. I hope you can appreciate that I respect you more than many who hold the name of Christian. I don't know how good I am at explaining them so people can understand but I shared with you some deeper truths, things rarely touched upon. Hope you can bear with me as I know these things in my heart by experience but am a bit of a novice at sharing them. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.0.164) |
Douglas, The state you described also sounds like a state that my self, my brother, and a few other people I know have felt, with similar effects. My brother enters into a similar state when he uses a spell, and I have reached that state through meditation, but usually in a sparring practice. I feel that “stillness”, but my reflexes get amazingly sharp, as does my awareness after leaving that state. Also, I know a few Buddhists who claim to experience that same state when they go into a deep enough meditation. They would claim such is a momentary state of Enlightenment, and that stillness is both part of, and beyond, the physical states of matter. I know that we both have our different ways of describing it, and giving these events meaning, but I think I get what your are saying, having experienced a similar state before. And you are right, words can’t describe it. The entity you call a “Cherubim”, sounds like a being of old Near Eastern mythology/demonology called a “genasi”, I think is the term for it, but I’ll have to check. They match the description of a large, human like figure, with usually feathered wings, but two pairs, not one, and they always wield large swords or similar bladed weapons that are wreathed in fire. They are usually known as either guards or servants of deities, but in places like ancient Sumeria, there were no concept of an angel, just demons, spirits, deities, and these beings. They weren’t always good, or evil, but usually out to complete their missions. I know that I am ranting, but the description reminded me of it. As for that experience, I feel as though I was given the task of finding a path for myself, that God had done this to help me on the path of strengthening myself. I admit, I may have been distracted while I was young, but I can never claim an absolute. To me, it was God fulfilling the role of guide, it helped guide me to the realization that I must believe in my own abilities. I call my self atheistic because I don’t tend to believe in anything unless I have proof, but I do remember as a child having that link. That link was proof of a higher power, and as to that nature of that higher power, call it God, Allah, etc, it wasn’t in existence to stifle my spirit, but to help it realize what my spirit itself, is. It is a guide and a mentor, not an overbearing control freak. My experience doesn’t point toward a right religion, but it points to the importance of self realization, and the strength one can make for themselves as a result of that. As for explaining things, I found your explanation was much better than many of the attempts at explaining relativity and laws of physics, and I am impressed at how you could incorporate this into your religious beliefs in a sound and understandable manner. If only I had these explanations in high school physics, lol! I don’t look upon forgiveness as something that is weak, but something that can be healthy and rather necessary for growth. I used to be able to hold onto a grudge for quite some time, usually a few years, minimum. But such never helped me, as a person grow any, and often actually began to take a toll on my mental and physical health. When my mood is blissful, I heal phenomenally fast, usually recovering from ailments like a cold in a day without the need of medications, surgery, (depending on the severity), in about two-thirds of the normal time, etc. When my mood is fouled by hatred, or holding on to a grudge, the exact opposite happens. I still understand what it means to forgive, but I am never foolish enough to open myself completely to that person immediately. Nor do I forget their past transgressions, but I understand that such is the past, and the person in question doesn’t wish to repeat it. And it is not my job to keep bugging them about it. Such doesn’t help promote personal growth. -da666 p.s. I must admit, I am a prone ranter, but that is only with people I respect too. | ||
| Douglas (138.89.125.242) |
A rant for a rant, you rantsponded to my rant Isn't it a trip how they made physics so boring in school? School is to dumb people down and make them controllible by things and powers no one in their right mind would follow. Now you claim to be an athiestic Satanist but if there is an evil deity what school does to childrens minds is strong evidence of it. A child has a natural, I call it God given, curiousity. They learn at an amazing pace things that have meaning to them and interest them as they are ready to learn. Then they go to school where they are pressured to learn things that have no meaning or interest to them and they are not ready for. If they give in to that pressure they lose that natural discernment of what they should and shouldn't remember that makes knowledge a joy. They give in and knowledge starts pouring in their head like so much meaningless noise and it puts on them a nature that is not natural. They react by either becoming hypnotically addicted to trying to make sence of that knowledge or by rebelling against it. Either way they are sensitized to outside enviornment, crearures of enviornment reacting like puppets on a string. That kind of pressured learning puts on us a nature that is not natural. I wouldn't be suprised if learning disabilities are a reaction to that. That self that evolves through trauma, creature of enviornment, is the false self and the self we should not trust in. I believe the self you are seeking is the true self within, in touch with that innosence, the pure form, the stillness. I see Christ as a man who never broke with that self but most Christians don't understand him. I myself could wish I was in your position as I believe God has preserved you so that if you go into battle you will be prepared and not like the seed that fell on hard ground. So there are two selves and you must be aware to trust the right self and not the natural man subject to enviornment. I don't want to ramble too much tonight. The band, the Grateful Dead, before they got their name, were reading the Tibetan Book of the Dead and they realizid that it was not a book about dying but about spiritual passage. Many people read the Bible and think that if people are not good or do not believe in Jesus that they will go to hell and die. What they do not realize is that hell is seperation from God and they already died by having the same propensity as Adam and that they are in hell, which will remain comfortible for those who are not lost and are at home in it until it burns as I mentioned in the earlier post about reaching God in the kingdom that flesh and blood don't enter where matter came from but ceases to exist. I'll expound on it more later. My wife wants to use the computer. I'll expound on who I think Jesus is in the whole scheme and it is interesting, not a bunch of rhetoric or dogma. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.33.174) |
Douglas, I know what ya mean with the constant force feeding of knowledge to children in schools. I remember being bored to tears in class, especially government and psychology and sociology. Sure, I exceeded in all classes, but they were a joke and boring. As a student, I learned to memorize what the teacher wanted and to parrot back what they wanted. Such is a response to years of being force fed information I didn’t find interesting, but my curiosity is returning! As for two sides, I have started to blend my two sides so to speak. I have made peace with my more malevolent side, and realize that it is part of my fuller self, just as my benign side is. This has lead me to greater understanding of myself, and peace with my self. I also seem to notice that I have a bit of a luck streak going on. I have survived a few close calls with death, managed to narrowly evade possible traffic accidents, etc. As for what you have to say about Jesus, I’m all ears. -da666 | ||
| Don (4.163.157.30) |
Does anyone actually have the fortitude to discuss real satanism, not secular humanism??? | ||
| Don (4.163.157.30) |
PS: where did you guys get the name "Satan" in satanism,anyway??? | ||
| GodsServant (152.21.35.26) |
Douglas,
I am glad to see you feel the same way I do about the Sword douglas. I also feel that the Sword represents Time. You seem to have Good knowledge about some things. Keep up the Homework! †GOD BLESS | ||
| Sharon (142.177.9.20) |
Douglas... I loved what you said about hell is a seperation from God. From someone who has been both seperated and reunited I can say that your words ring true. I found the main board which I have never been to, I found these pages by mistake and never went to the front page. Thanks | ||
| Douglas (138.89.127.200) |
Give me a couple of days. I've been working late lately. | ||
| GodsServant (64.12.117.11) |
Sharon, I found the boards by mistake also Or was it mistake? I guess i'll never know..... I think we found this place for a reason myself! †GOD BLESS | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.0.50) |
Don, The reason that Satanism isn’t just called humanism, according to the Satanic Bible, is that humanism is a philosophy, not a religion, where as Satanism is a religion. But the Satanic Bible only applies to LeVayan Satanists. So, from my stand point, I guess it is because Satan, in my perspective, not the Christian perspective, is more of a role model and an ideology in which many of my beliefs have a basis in. As for where we got the name Satan, in Satanism, that comes from the role the Satan archetype plays in the ideology of Satanism. For ages, the idea of “Satan”, was supposed to represent and embody all that Christians and Muslims believed to be evil and savage. But, to a Satanist, most of these “evil” traits that “Satan” is supposed to represent aren’t “evil” traits, but parts of human nature that has become bad because they are so often repressed to the breaking point. Every basic “sin” can be traced to having origins in our innate programming for survival. And rather than beat ourselves up about our more animalistic traits, we learn to accept them for what they are and use them to our advantage, or overcome the obstacles they can present. We don’t demonize ourselves for being human. We aren’t anything else but human. -da666 | ||
| sharon (142.177.8.36) |
GS...I do not think that it was a mistake, I think it is where we belong. Have you been to the front page because I only ever used open in a new window and so I never saw the front page with the Last Day stuff. That could be very handy. I went back and typed in factnet and it came up. Bet you did that long ago, but if not it is great. Funny we both came here by mistake. | ||
| GodsServant (205.188.116.73) |
Sharon, I found the frontpage a while back because using the internet like I have, I noticed the html address was a bit long. I figured I would go directly to the factnet.org site itself, for curiosity sake. It is handy at times but usually I just pop in on subjects that seem to interest me. †GOD BLESS | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.117.11) |
We are much more than human. We have a divine spark within us. The soul that God gave us. God's laws are burned into our hearts. All societies in the world, primitive or civilized, have the same basic laws and mores accordingly. Satanism is just another crutch to sanitize the rejection of human decency. A dangerous drug to help the fallen forget about the laws given to all men. Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot, Joe Stalin...... were all partakers of this drug. Satan lies. Satan sucks! | ||
| GodsServant (152.21.35.26) |
Douglas, Just a thought about TIME: Could time actually be referred to as disease? Could time from the beginning be disease which causes the breakdown of our bodies and all other earthly materials? Its very possible that these two have something related to each other! Tell me your thoughts on the matter..... †GOD BLESS | ||
| Douglas (138.89.50.92) |
I don't think time is in itself a disease any more than a river is a disease. If you drown in it it is but if you float on it it can carry you places and if you drink it it can keep you in health. If you resist it and stand still in it it may wear on you depending on how you are sheltered. Everything has to be in perspective to its source. Jesus walked back through time to the beginning and healed the ultimate wound, that seperation, divorce from our creator, source. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.0.162) |
Anon 64, “We are much more than human. We have a divine spark within us. The soul that God gave us.” But, I am saying that humans make the mistake of saying that we are without our animal instincts and that these instincts are bad. They exist for a reason, as they are throw backs from an earlier point in human history and development. The demonization of our natural tendencies is what I am against. To claim that I am a sinful monster because I am human, or the whole doctrine of Original Sin, is something that I find utterly absurd. Everything that we as humans have, is either a throw back from an earlier age in our development or something that we use today. “Satanism is just another crutch to sanitize the rejection of human decency. A dangerous drug to help the fallen forget about the laws given to all men.” To you, it may be. But you are also biased, as I. You are free to do as you wish, I care little for what you think about Satanism, especially since you make no rules that I abide by any way. I make my own rules, and just because Satanism doesn’t preach that we should follow every rule that society lays out before us doesn’t mean we are to go out and break every law on the books just for the sheer sake of doing so. We have our own laws, just like you or anyone else. You’re idea of a Satanist is probably some psychopath who goes around murdering people to drink their blood, worships the Christian-Islamic concept of Satan/Iblis, and is a complete and utter anarchist devoid of compassion for anything, including themselves, and gets their jollies by destroying everything around them. We don’t view your Christian Bible with any particular reverence, nor do we consider it a factual book, or anything that binds us to anything. To expect a Satanist to follow the Bible as their holy book, especially an atheistic Satanist, is like expecting a Christian to follow all the laws found in the Bagavagita of Hinduism. Just because its your belief system doesn’t mean its mine, regardless of what you would like to think. “Jeffrey Dahmer, John Wayne Gacy, Adolph Hitler, Pol Pot, Joe Stalin...... were all partakers of this drug.” Pol Pot was not a Satanist, nor was Hitler. Hitler was a self proclaimed Christian, but in actuality, was an atheist. Joseph Stalin was an atheist. Gracy and Dahmer are psychotic lunatics. You find them in every belief system, like Erick Rudolph of Army of God, a “Christian” organization devoted to fire bombing abortion clinics and murdering doctors. You may not be able to distinguish between psychopaths and normal members of a religion, but I can. I don’t demonize or look upon Christians as murderers because of the actions of individuals like Erick Rudolph or the Lafferty brothers. Such an action would be immature and prejudice. Your automatic attack on Satanism using examples of people, whom, for the majority are not Satanists, ( I must admit, I am not even sure what Dahmer’s religious beliefs were, if any, nor Gracy’s, but I doubt Satanist), is rather immature. -da666 | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.0.162) |
Don, Secular Humanism is one of the biggest parts of the atheistic sects of Satanism. You can't really discuss atheistic Satanism without having some elements of secular humanism coming through. -da666 | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.117.13) |
Whether they were satanists or not is not as important than the fact that they were all under satan's control. Atheistic satanism is an oxymoron. Satanism by definition can not exist without a belief (but rejection) of God. You can be an atheist. Or you can be a satanist. But by definition, you can not be both. What you are is an atheist. It doesn't matter whether you believe in the Bible. God wrote the Bible in your heart before you were born. You came from God. Whether you return to God is your choice. You will cry out to God at one point in the foxhole of your life. And He will hear you. God bless you until then. | ||
| Anonymous (64.12.117.13) |
If you are an atheist or a satanist, it tells me you have no morals. I will not hire you to babysit my children. I will not hire you for any job. I will not allow you to marry my daughter. I would not vote for you. I can not trust you. You are not accountable to anybody except your hedonistic cravings. You label yourself. I react accordingly. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.0.39) |
Anon 64, “Whether they were satanists or not is not as important than the fact that they were all under satan's control.” Your statement is not only biased, but inaccurate. You are not talking to a person who believes in the traditions of the Abrahamic faiths. You already have a predefined definition of Satanism, despite it being inaccurate, you cling to it still. ”Atheistic satanism is an oxymoron. Satanism by definition can not exist without a belief (but rejection) of God.” And you know this how? Are you a Satanist? Or are you giving the definition of Satanism according to you? “You can be an atheist. Or you can be a satanist. But by definition, you can not be both. What you are is an atheist.” You haven’t read any of my earlier posts explaining this. Unless you bother to try to read them, I will not bother trying to explain this concept to you. ”It doesn't matter whether you believe in the Bible. God wrote the Bible in your heart before you were born. You came from God. Whether you return to God is your choice.” Prove this. Where is your scientific proof of this? ”You will cry out to God at one point in the foxhole of your life. And He will hear you. God bless you until then.” We’ll see about that. “If you are an atheist or a satanist, it tells me you have no morals.” You don’t even know me. How can you make such a prejudiced statement? “I will not hire you to babysit my children. I will not hire you for any job. I will not allow you to marry my daughter. I would not vote for you. I can not trust you.” And you think I can trust you because you are a Christian? What do a person’s personal beliefs have to do about their level of accountability? You have no idea what I do on my free time, nor do you know where I work, or who my friends are, etc. “You are not accountable to anybody except your hedonistic cravings. You label yourself. I react accordingly.” And you make judgments based on your own prejudices. You don’t know me, nor do you know how I live my life. Why do you make such accusations and character assassinations? What even gives you the right? -da666 | ||
| Douglas (68.162.30.87) |
Anonymous (64.12.117.13) If you are an atheist or a satanist, it tells me you have no morals. I will not hire you to babysit my children. I will not hire you for any job. I will not allow you to marry my daughter. I would not vote for you. I can not trust you. You are not accountable to anybody except your hedonistic cravings. You label yourself. I react accordingly. John Kerry and George Bush both claim to be Christians so I guess they label themselves accordingly. Some of the people who raped and murdered children claimed to be christians. God is no accepter of labels Da666 Actually, concerning the animal nature, my understanding is that the highest purpose for dying beings is to create new bodies to replace their dying bodies. I think man fell from being eternally internally recreating beings to the highest animal purpose of being dying procreating beings. I believe that we became subnatural rather than natural. You have to see the evil (live backwards) intent man is capable of way beyond animals and nature. Perhaps tomorrow I'll have more time to continue where I left off a few days ago but it's getting late to go in depth. Good night. | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
Nice defense for satanism. The satanist labeled himself. This is not a discussion of Christians labeling themselves. A person who calls themselves a Christian but murders and rapes is NOT a Christian. You know this. God is no accepter of atheists or satanists. Unless they turn to God and accept His Son as their personal Savior. | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
I have the right because I live on the same planet as you do. I breathe the same air that you breathe. You make my world a more dangerous place to live. I know you as who you say you are. If you say you are an atheist, then I have concern for your soul. I do not neccessarily trust you because you do not hold yourself accountable to a higher power. When you say you are a satanist then I know that you are dangerous, evil and definitely can not be trusted. If you said you were jewish, moslem, buddhist, hindu etc. then I would not have as much concern because I would know that you believe there is a higher power that holds you accountable. Here is the universal definition of these terms. No, we are not going to rewrite the dictionaries of the world just for you. Here is what you say you are. a·the·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (th-zm) n. Disbelief in or denial of the existence of God or gods. The doctrine that there is no God or gods. Godlessness; immorality. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- [French athéisme, from athée, atheist, from Greek atheos, godless : a-, without; see a-1 + theos, god; see dhs- in Indo-European Roots.] [Download or Buy Now] Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. atheism \A"the*ism, n. [Cf. F. ath['e]isme. See Atheist.] 1. The disbelief or denial of the existence of a God, or supreme intelligent Being. Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. Atheism and pantheism are often wrongly confounded. --Shipley. 2. Godlessness. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. atheism n 1: the doctrine or belief that there is no God [syn: godlessness] [ant: theism] 2: a lack of belief in the existence of God or gods Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University Sa·tan·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stn-zm) n. The worship of Satan characterized by a travesty of the Christian rites. satanism Profound wickedness. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Satan·ist n. [Download or Buy Now] Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. satanist \Sa"tan*ist, n. A very wicked person. [R.] --Granger. Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. satanist n : an adherent of Satan or Satanism [syn: Satanist, diabolist] Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University Sa·tan·ism ( P ) Pronunciation Key (stn-zm) n. The worship of Satan characterized by a travesty of the Christian rites. satanism Profound wickedness. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Satan·ist n. [Download or Buy Now] Source: The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company. Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved. satanism \Sa"tan*ism, n. The evil and malicious disposition of Satan; a diabolical spirit. [R.] Source: Webster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary, © 1996, 1998 MICRA, Inc. satanism n : the worship of devils (especially Satan) [syn: diabolism, demonism, Satanism] Source: WordNet ® 2.0, © 2003 Princeton University This is who you say you are. According to the world's dictionaries "atheistic satanist" IS an oxymororn. Should we throw out the dictionaries because YOU disagree? Nope. If you are not these things, then redefine yourself. Until then I will know you as evil. | ||
| Anonymous (4.248.217.85) |
Anon 152, “God is no accepter of atheists or satanists. Unless they turn to God and accept His Son as their personal Savior.” And you, I suppose, know everything God thinks, and can be that being’s inerrant messenger and voice box to the world. “You make my world a more dangerous place to live. I know you as who you say you are.” I am demanding on what grounds can you justify a single claim you have made about me, other than you are prejudice and fear anyone who doesn’t bow before the same commandments as you. You are just making ad hominem attacks because you obviously lack a solid argument, and are just trying to pick a fight, or, proselytize. How pathetic. You, can make this world a more dangerous place for anyone, including yourself. And to assume that I, just because I am both an atheist and a Satanist, you think I am out actively trying to inflict misery and suffering in the world. You are mistaken. I care not for wasting my time harming people who haven’t harmed me first, and given my long temper, I usually don’t bother with people who annoy me anyway. You assume I am a malefactor. You have yet to prove this though. Until then, your argument will be nothing more than groundless personal attacks. Grow up. “If you say you are an atheist, then I have concern for your soul. I do not neccessarily trust you because you do not hold yourself accountable to a higher power.” And you think that just because you hold yourself accountable to a higher power means I can trust you? What about individuals like the Lafferty brothers, or the suicide bombers of Palestine, or Erick Rudolph and Army of God? All claim to be accountable to a higher power, but should I trust them just because they claim such? How does holding one’s self accountable only to a higher power make them the least bit trustworthy? “When you say you are a satanist then I know that you are dangerous, evil and definitely can not be trusted.” And when you say that you are a “Christian”, I could assume the same, but unlike you, I don’t jump to such conclusions without first learning about the person in question. I can’t trust you because I don’t know you. “Godlessness; immorality.” Biased and obviously written by a non-atheist. “Atheism is a ferocious system, that leaves nothing above us to excite awe, nor around us to awaken tenderness. --R. Hall. Atheism and pantheism are often wrongly confounded. --Shipley.” Pointless. Has nothing to do with the actual definition, just a statement of a point of view. An anti-atheist point of view to boot. All of your definitions of “Satanism” are obviously written by non-Satanists, and thus, inaccurate in the depiction of our beliefs, thus, to me, worthless. You wouldn’t accept a Shintoist definition of the Trinity or Original Sin, so why do you expect me to accept what your Christian sources say about Satanism? “If you are not these things, then redefine yourself. Until then I will know you as evil.” I already explained my self on earlier posts, so if you are too lazy or complacent to actually go through and do the readings, then you can get lost. I really don’t care if you consider me “evil”, because you don’t know me, and you don’t know a damn thing about Satanism, especially from a Satanist perspective. Douglas, “You have to see the evil (live backwards) intent man is capable of way beyond animals and nature.” I readily recognize that the kind of evil that man is capable of goes way beyond that of animals and nature. Humans are the only creatures known that commit acts of genocide and torture. Such acts are neither natural, nor even part of nature. What I am referring to is basic wants, needs, and desires. But, as sentient beings with free will, we have the ability to tame and control and use these basics to our advantage in life. But there is to a point that indulging in such basics becomes a compulsion, and even to a level that is more than unhealthy, but self destructive. The key is knowing when to draw line, and being able to act accordingly. -da666 | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
Well, it just seems that when I look up dictionary definitions on google, that is what I got. Can't satan or your other diety, the non-god, take over google and give me the atheistic satanic slanted definitions you approve of. Of course, I have a Christian bias. You expect me, being a Christian, to get the warm fuzzies reading your beliefs? Oh, so you're a atheistic satanist? lol. As the church lady would say, aren't you special. Well, everybody's got to be something. Looky here Ellie Mae! This boy here says he's an atheistic satanist. That means he don't believe in God but he worships the devil. He's got 666 tatooed on his arse. Goooolleee! Ain't he something! Has he got horns sticking out of his forehead, Jim Bob? He ought to be in a freak show. Let's call the preacher man. He can excorcize those demons right out of him! I don't know or need to know where you live. But what you're caught up in sounds like something out of California. Only Californica could come up with a religion for atheistic satanists. Screw political correctness and tolerance. I can't help but laugh at your beliefs. I've read your posts above. They were just as laughable the first time. Stop being in rebellion to everything good. Get real. Get Jesus! | ||
| Douglas (141.153.130.189) |
-da666 I got called in to work for almost 12 hours emergency overtime and have my neices birthday today so i didn't get the time I wanted to share with you my thoughts. If anon 152 is the same person I think he is don't exasperate yourself over him. It's hard to tell who's who with these people who hide behind anonymous. If he is the one who sees himself as a cult crusader, he is the one I see as a narcissist who can never see what is wrong with him because he is in deep denial and has a compulsion to make up excuses for himself. People like that have caused untold suffering to others by hiding their own evil at the expence of others. | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
Nice piece of slander there, Douglas. You don't know me at all. I don't like people like that either. But your description of me is not me. That is not denial. That is a fact. So you've become among all other things an amateur psychologist / phsychiatrist? From which accredited University did you get your degree? Did you go out and buy a psychiatry book and find some new nasty names to sling at me? It's all about that we don't agree. Isn't it? And freedom of speech. It can get messy. I enjoy the discussion but don't need the mud slinging. Having said that, here is an observation. If both of you are man enough to believe in what you believe, then you should be man enough to discuss them civily. Not placating each other. But by being honest but civil. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.66.164) |
Anon 152, “You expect me, being a Christian, to get the warm fuzzies reading your beliefs?” And you expect me to change what I personally believe because you disagree with what I believe? “Well, everybody's got to be something.” And for you, I guess that means being a troll. “That means he don't believe in God but he worships the devil.” Wow, you are making quite an assumption there. I am atheistic as in I don’t worship any deity, but recognize Satan as more of an archetype or a role model than an actual being, but this comes from a non-Christian understanding of that being. But this is most likely beyond you. “He's got 666 tatooed on his arse.” No I don’t. I don’t have any tattoos. Now you are making even more assumptions, without proof to back it up of course. “He ought to be in a freak show.” Please, keep your personal experiences to yourself. “Only Californica could come up with a religion for atheistic satanists.” You mean “California”. A spell check would be your friend. “Screw political correctness and tolerance. I can't help but laugh at your beliefs. I've read your posts above. They were just as laughable the first time. Stop being in rebellion to everything good. Get real. Get Jesus!” Screw your mindless obedience and blind faith. If I am to convert to anything, it isn’t because of what some preacher tells me. I can’t help but laugh at your pathetic attempts to convert me by insulting me as a person, my beliefs, (given that you know nothing about them), and telling me that I am evil. And you expect me to adopt your beliefs with open arms? You are dreaming, aren’t you? Why don’t you start living according to what Jesus preached, and stop wasting your time here? Get real. Get a life. “Nice piece of slander there, Douglas. You don't know me at all. I don't like people like that either. But your description of me is not me. That is not denial. That is a fact.” The same can be said of you. You don’t know me at all. And, judging by your posts, you aren’t someone I would like to meet either. And your description of me isn’t me, but a blind assumption of yours founded out of your ignorance and fear. “I enjoy the discussion but don't need the mud slinging. Having said that, here is an observation.” You enjoy discussion, yet you don’t want mud slinging? Then why do you cast the first stone? Hey, didn’t Jesus have something to say about that? Here’s an observation: For how much you make not like “mud slinging”, you make a lot of ad hominem attacks without taking into account the notion that others might begin to lose their patience with you. You aren’t handling this discussion as a mature adult when you make nothing but ad hominem attacks, and your argument, which seems to be something along the lines of “You can’t be a Satanist and an atheist because a dictionary says so, and you should accept Jesus! Blah blah blah!”; seems focused on character assassination and stereotypes. It is people like you who helped give the Satanic movement the fuel it needed to grow in the first place. Same goes for the growth of atheism around the world. “If both of you are man enough to believe in what you believe, then you should be man enough to discuss them civily. Not placating each other. But by being honest but civil.” Oh, the irony of this statement coming from you! I have been more than patient with you. I have been more than civil with you. But when you begin to constantly make nothing but ad hominem attacks on my person, and claim I am evil, I see no need to be civil with you. I am being honest, but you just see to wish for nothing more than a fight. So, be honest with your self, why do you post insults and personal attacks, and expect anything near a “civil” discussion in turn? Douglas, It’s nice to hear that your nieces had their birthday today. 12 hours emergency over time…damn. You deserve a break. As for anon, I doubt that he really wants to do anything more than pick a fight, and sounds like a supercessionist. He does sound like he’s in denial. He doesn’t realize that everyone of his post are reminiscent of the kind of thinking that has caused so many religious wars in the past that cost a untold number of lives. And he claims folks like ME, are responsible for so much evil in the world…lol! -da666 | ||
| Anonymous (152.163.101.12) |
"And for you, I guess that means being a troll." If according to your pentagram circle of Californica atheistic satanic friends, if my being a Christian who detests satanism make me a troll, then so be it. I would be proud if you and they would call me a troll. "I am atheistic as in I don’t worship any deity, but recognize Satan as more of an archetype or a role model than an actual being." Duh!? That is such a stupendous statement. Satan, a role model? Satan is a destroyer, a liar and a murderer. Great role model you have there! "Why don’t you start living according to what Jesus preached." That's what I'm telling you. If Jesus was here now, he would cast the demons out of you, buddy. And if Douglas was a Christian, he would tell you the same thing instead of patronizing you. “He ought to be in a freak show.” Please, keep your personal experiences to yourself. You and this thread are a freak show. “Only Californica could come up with a religion for atheistic satanists.” You mean “California”. A spell check would be your friend. You read me right the first time. "Californica." "and claim I am evil," You are evil by your own definition. And don't give me that "reinvent the wheel" or rewrite the dictionaries of the world. The English language is very precise. Satanism is evil. He doesn’t realize that everyone of his post are reminiscent of the kind of thinking that has caused so many religious wars in the past that cost a untold number of lives. The only wars we've had in this world have been wars started by your role model, satan. Christians should always defend themselves. But satan is in the Christian Church too. Any unjust wars, even involving Christians are started by satan, in or outside of the church. The only war I have started with you is a war of words. Are you ready to surrender to Jesus now? You said it best. I'll finish by quoting you. "Why don’t you start living according to what Jesus preached." | ||
| Sharon (142.177.79.68) |
Anon 4...If you call yourself a satanist and you say he is your roll model can you wonder that a Christian would have a problem with that. I think you are dropping chum in the waters. You are aware of the fact that satan is the devil right, your role model. Wow you think that someone might blame satanists for some of the trouble in the world, thats funny because that is just what satans job is, the destroy mankind. But I am sure that most satanist are just misunderstood college boys out to have some fun. You realize of course that school children know who satan is and that he is evil right and if you follow him what does that make you what class? That is right the follower of evil. It is kind of silly for a satanist to be trying to say that he is not really evil when he says satan is his role model. | ||
| Douglas (207.200.170.138) |
If Jesus was here now, anonymous, he'd probably be sitting and eating with the kind of people you accuse and exposing your hypocrisy. You are in love with an image of yourself as good. I don't need a degree to see that. You are so in love with your image that you can't see the truth about yourself or anyone else. | ||
| Anonymous (172.165.102.199) |
There you go again, D. Amateur psychoanalyzing. Practicing psychiatry without a liscence. Your slander drips with hate. Are you going to challenge the atheistic satanist or are you going to continue to patronize him and defend him? Leave your petty grudges against me out of this. Where do you stand? With Jesus or Satan? | ||
| Anonymous (4.248.221.167) |
Anon, “If according to your pentagram circle of Californica atheistic satanic friends, if my being a Christian who detests satanism make me a troll, then so be it. I would be proud if you and they would call me a troll.” I don’t live in California, but I hear it’s a nice place to visit. I call you a troll because you are making nothing but ad hominem attacks. It has nothing with you being a Christian. It has everything to do with you doing nothing more than posting snide remarks, ad hominem attacks, and just to put it plainly, picking fights for no other reason other than you feel like it. That is what makes you a troll. “Duh!? That is such a stupendous statement. Satan, a role model? Satan is a destroyer, a liar and a murderer. Great role model you have there!” Humans are the Destoyers, and if you bother to read the Old Testament at all, you would find that God does quite a bit of destroying himself, not Satan. “That's what I'm telling you. If Jesus was here now, he would cast the demons out of you, buddy. And if Douglas was a Christian, he would tell you the same thing instead of patronizing you.” Tisk tisk tisk. Another character assassination. Do you honestly even know who I am? How can you claim that demons are in me? How do YOU know you aren’t being manipulated by beings you call “demons”, without even realizing it? “You and this thread are a freak show.” Tisk tisk tisk…and to think, I thought you had a sense of humor. “You read me right the first time. "Californica."” Okay…I’ll just let your statement stand by itself. “You are evil by your own definition. And don't give me that "reinvent the wheel" or rewrite the dictionaries of the world. The English language is very precise. Satanism is evil.” I have never given you my definition of “evil”. You think words can accurately describe “evil”? Such a concept is not bound by words and it really subjective at best. What you consider “evil”, is not necessarily what someone else will consider “evil”, given, there are many norms agreed upon by many societies of what is acceptable and what is “evil”, but the point is, you are throwing around your own personal standards, and claiming they are the true standards, and anyone who has any different standards is wrong. “The only wars we've had in this world have been wars started by your role model, satan. Christians should always defend themselves. But satan is in the Christian Church too. Any unjust wars, even involving Christians are started by satan, in or outside of the church.” HAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHAA!!!!! YOU’RE JOKING? RIGHT! AHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHA!!!!! Can you honestly prove this? Really? It sounds like you are not admitting that the Church is run by people, and that people will be people, and naturally, people will fight and go to war. You are just assigning blame to a non-existent entity to deflect blame from human nature in general. Poor choices and the “I’m Right and good, you’re evil and wrong” attitude that is used to justify and start so many of the wars you claim this “Satan” is responsible for. “The only war I have started with you is a war of words. Are you ready to surrender to Jesus now?” You call this a “war”? This is not a “war of words”. It is merely something I partake in when I am bored and feel like bothering to answer your posts. As for surrendering to Jesus? I thought he was the Prince of Peace. I don’t feel like surrendering to anything, mostly because I haven’t gone to war with anyone. The question goes both ways, are you? “Your slander drips with hate.” And you have the audacity to say this? I wonder what you make of ALL OF YOUR POSTS directed at me? 100% slander and hate in every post! “Where do you stand? With Jesus or Satan?” From the sounds of it, he is standing with his beliefs in Jesus. You, on the other hand, display a unique amount of venom that I have only seen in the most hardened LeVayan Satanists. Ironic, isn’t it. Sharon, I pretty much realize that most Christians would get bothered, to say the least, by me claiming that Satan is more of a role model for me, as a Satanist. But, what can I do? I read through and studied the philosophy of atheistic Satanism and found that I already have beliefs that coincide with almost everything in the philosophy. I am willing to try to help folks understand where I am coming from, but some people just may not wish to hear what I have to say, and I can’t force them to come to my beliefs. I guess it is kinda chumming the waters. And I am aware of what Satan means to Christians, and also what it means to Satanists. That I think is where the problems come in, mostly because of how the two belief systems look upon that character in such a different light. As for school children, they will parrot back most anything you teach them. -da666 | ||
| Don (67.1.4.94) |
The point I was trying to make when I asked "where did you get the name Satan In Satanism," is that the name comes from the BIBLE and refers to an evil being who prowls to devoure. You took your name and position based on the Bible. Therefore being a satanist who doesn't worship satan or take on his philosophy, more or less just means you are against Christianity, otherwise you would just call it whatever esoteric belief system it is rather than using the bible in naming yourselves. If satan himself isn't involved, then calling your self a satanist is tantamount to me calling myself a coffee table... | ||
| Douglas (68.162.35.4) |
Anonymous Wasn't it Jesus who said people would call evil good and good evil? Wouldn't it be ironic if -da666 was worshiping God and thinking he was worshipping Satan and you were worshipping Satan and thinking you were worshipping Christ? I mean, Isn't the nature of deception that you are decieved? Doesn't the Bible tell you that Satan masquerades as an angel of light? A wolf in sheeps, or a sacrificed lamb (Jesus)'s clothing? Isn't it more deceptive to believe you are saved and going to heaven than to say that you are a Satanist? Jesus said tha deception would be subtile. What's so subtile about being an Athiestic Satanist? I hope you learn to silence your knee jerk "Christian" reactions and learn humility. You are very novice and if you are one of God's children He will cure you of the pride in you. Start listening to your older brothers and sisters instead of fighting us. Perhaps you can listen for awhile and read back posts and hold your judgment. I don't mind someone being a fool for their faith in Christ but whose fool are we when we eat our own tail? I am talking about loving your neighbor as yourself. You don't need to do to -da666 and I what you often rebuke me for, calling names. If I hated you I would have ignored you a long time ago but I think the only thing I like about you is your tenacity. Face your hell and get out of it. | ||
| Anonymous (172.163.168.212) |
"Humans are the Destoyers, and if you bother to read the Old Testament at all, you would find that God does quite a bit of destroying himself, not Satan." What god destroyed in the Old Testament was done by the enforcement of God's Law. By evil being destroyed, the good are allowed to live. If man violates God's laws then that man will be destroyed. Who tempts man to violate God's law? Satan. You lie, satan is death. God is life! "you are throwing around your own personal standards, and claiming they are the true standards, and anyone who has any different standards is wrong." Duh!? My own personal standards are accepted by billions of people around the globe. How about the Ten Commandments and the laws of the land? They are personal AND they are universal. | ||
| Anonymous (172.163.168.212) |
If you have read my posts along with da666 posts and think that I worship satan and da666 worships God, then you are sadly confused. Your post shows that this is a strictly personal vendetta against me. The way you twist things is incredible! If anyone is decieved it is you. You were decieved about Koresh. I shown light on the subject. You were decieved about "God hates". I showed you that Christ's words supercede any Old Testament conception of God. You are decieved in your uncertainty whether Jesus Christ is the one and only, for all time, the expressed image of God. Very fundamental concepts of Christianity 101 and you made a failing grade. These are not my views of Christianity. Study the Nicene Creed. That is what all Christians (or followers of Christ) believe. I have read the posts of these so called older brothers and sisters and I can not keep silent. If it doesn't apply to you then don't worry about it. But I have read a menagerie of Jesus Plus, man worshipping, outright blasphemy, cult defending and cult apologies. If my attempt to pull those out of balance back on track is knee jerk, then I'm going to keep jerking this knee. I am facing my hell. It is posts here and elsewhere that praise man, diminsh Christ and preach a gospel of hate and fear. God is love! To love your fellow man is to share truth with him. Not patronize him. You are the one full of pride. Even after I show you the error of your thought processes, you refuse to 'fess up. You continue the attack. Jesus is God! There will never be any Son of God but Jesus Christ. If the original 12 apostles, that I do not compare myself to, heeded your advice we would all be worshipping in synagouges or pagan temples. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.6.53) |
Anon, What did the first borns of Egypt do that broke this “God’s” law that they must all be slaughtered? I seriously doubt that any infant even has a notion of this “God’s” law, much less the incentive to violate it. Why did this “God” murder thousands of innocents? “How about the Ten Commandments and the laws of the land? They are personal AND they are universal.” Your “Ten Commandments” apply only to those who believe in their validity as divine edicts. As someone who doesn’t follow the Abrahamic faiths, I don’t see your commandments as anything else but rules for your own religion. And some of those rules don’t apply to me, for I am not married, I don’t worship anything, etc. And can you honestly prove they are universal? “If you have read my posts along with da666 posts and think that I worship satan and da666 worships God, then you are sadly confused.” The higher power that I hold any respect for isn’t this “Satan” you speak of, nor is it the “God”, in your frame of understanding. My views of any higher power are probably far beyond your understanding anyway, as you limit your self based on what a Christian dictionary tells you. And, to clear things up, I am an atheist in the fact that I don’t follow a belief system or claim of the supernatural blindly. If I have experiences with something that is supernatural, or divine in nature, I am not crushed, nor shocked, but try to reason them out, and if I can’t I learn to accept them and view it as evidence of higher forces on a personal level. But again, not every atheist has been as experienced as I in such matters. “Study the Nicene Creed. That is what all Christians (or followers of Christ) believe.” Very Paulinian too. Jesus, as a Jew, never believed in Original Sin, nor did he actually believe he was part of the Trinity. Paul and later theologians developed the concept of the Trinity and Original Sin. It wasn’t something Jesus preached. Jesus was a Jew, Paul was a Christian. “I am facing my hell. It is posts here and elsewhere that praise man, diminsh Christ and preach a gospel of hate and fear. God is love!” You sure fooled me with how much hate you preach. “You are the one full of pride.” As are you. “If the original 12 apostles, that I do not compare myself to, heeded your advice we would all be worshipping in synagouges or pagan temples.” You forget, the 12 apostles were Jewish as well. So odds are, you would be worshipping in a synagogue. -da666 | ||
| Douglas (141.153.129.21) |
I showed you that Christ's words supercede any Old Testament conception of God. You may have said that but you did not show it. If you don't accept the Old Testament's record of God, that God hated Esau, then you reject the scriptures that testify of Christ. Christ never negated God but you do by your opinion. Christs words fulfill and mirror the God of the Old Testament. You see me and I shine like a mirror and the things you accuse me of are the reflection of your self that you see on my surface. I hope you have an inner man and that you do a thorough job of destroying your outer man, old man first Adam self, so that your inner man can come forth but I warn you that if you do not have an inner man you will have nothing left but a shadow to be sent to the place of shadows to await its destruction in the lake of fire. You are decieved in your uncertainty whether Jesus Christ is the one and only, for all time, the expressed image of God. Jesus obviously fulfilled what Adam failed to fulfill but you are so confident that those of Christs body will not express the image of God and I believe that when they see him thay will be like him so I do not see why the head would be the expressed image but the body would not become one flesh with Him at the marriage supper of the lamb. | ||
| Douglas (141.153.129.21) |
Anon As you destroy the reflection of yourself in me with your words, as you crucify Christ in me, you judge your sin in me, you help me to understand Christ's words, Forgive them, Father, for they know not what they do. | ||
| Anonymous (172.164.184.242) |
D, I will respond to your attacks later. I posted the warrant for Koresh on bdnpa. What is your response to that? | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.6.10) |
Don, On the topic of Satanism and Christianity, I found an interesting discussion on another board that I usually post at. I think the link works, but if it didn’t, I pasted the URL for you to type into your browser. Click Here. If it doesn’t work, this is the URL http://www.beliefnet.com/boards/message_list.asp?pageID=2&discussionID=336571&messages_per_page=16&#lastPost Hope it helps somewhat. -da666 | ||
| Douglas (141.153.142.250) |
I don't care about David Koresh. If I was wrong about him address it there. It was a long warrent anfd I skimmed over it quickly. You had information about Koresh that I never saw and was not making my argument on. Instead of giving me the information as to why you were saying the things you did you just kept repeating your view as if people could read your mind. You should have just layed your cards on the table from the start so people would see for themselves instead of getting all puffed up. As far as your claims here I believe there are many sons of God. Gen 6:2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men... Job 1:6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves before Yahveh that Satan came among them (see also 2:1; 38:7) Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the spirit of God, are the sons of God Romans 8:19 For the earnest expectation of the creation waits for the revealing of the sons of God. 2 Cor 6:18 And will be to you a father, and you shall be to me sons and daughters, saith the Almighty Gal. 4:6 And because you are sons, God sent forth the spirit of his Son into our hearts, crying, Abba, Father Heb. 2:10 (Christ suffered for the glory set before him)For it became him, for whom are all things and through him are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the author (Or, captain) of their salvation perfect through sufferings. 11 For both he that sanctifieth and they that are sanctified are all of one: for which cause he is not ashamed to call them brethern, 12 saying, I will declare thy name unto my brethern, ... | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.6.10) |
Anon, “D, I will respond to your attacks later. I posted the warrant for Koresh on bdnpa. What is your response to that?” I think you waste your time and think you are fighting a winning battle, but you fail to realize that you have only strengthened my beliefs that you commit the sin you pin on Lucifer in your Bible, the sin of hubris. The whole notion that you can speak for your “God”, which seems to be an extension of your own wants and thoughts, seems to be a form of self-deification. And if I remember my Christian heritage correctly, self-deification is a form of blasphemy, and also a tenant of LaVeyan Satanism. How Satanic of you! See, you are becoming more, and more of a LaVeyan Satanist every time you post. I constantly find strong parallels between your thoughts and LaVey’s, though obviously not where dogma is concerned, but in how rich your words are with venom and spite for “the enemy”, for LaVey, it was “White-Lighters”, for you, its “Satanists”. Just a thought…follower of LaVey. -da666 | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.6.10) |
Anon, “D, I will respond to your attacks later. I posted the warrant for Koresh on bdnpa. What is your response to that?” I think you waste your time and think you are fighting a winning battle, but you fail to realize that you have only strengthened my beliefs that you commit the sin you pin on Lucifer in your Bible, the sin of hubris. The whole notion that you can speak for your “God”, which seems to be an extension of your own wants and thoughts, seems to be a form of self-deification. And if I remember my Christian heritage correctly, self-deification is a form of blasphemy, and also a tenant of LaVeyan Satanism. How Satanic of you! See, you are becoming more, and more of a LaVeyan Satanist every time you post. I constantly find strong parallels between your thoughts and LaVey’s, though obviously not where dogma is concerned, but in how rich your words are with venom and spite for “the enemy”, for LaVey, it was “White-Lighters”, for you, its “Satanists”. Just a thought… -da666 | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.6.10) |
Damn, it posted twice...ops. -da666 | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.3.150) |
Douglas, The term, “Son of God”, was used as a title for those who were considered “righteous”. So, there could have been many people with that title during the time of Jesus. As for the concept that humans were the children of God, that was also found during the time of Jesus, so, it would be a valid argument that many Jews thought of God as somewhat of a father figure. -da666 | ||
| Douglas (138.89.135.239) |
-da666 Continued from my Monday, October 18, 2004 - 09:26 pm post part 1 When I was a youth I had an interest in mysticism. I was able to focus my mind and make things happen and effect people. I had none or little discipline and was overindulgent and hurt myself and others. Some of the funner things I did was sitting high up in trees and making hawk sounds and have hawks circle the tree I was in, lead people for long walks through the woods at night through sticker patches and swamps. Eventually I developed an ability to have altered states of mind without drugs and I could put other people in altered states. When my girlfriend had a headache I cured it with my hands without any knowledge of things about acupressure and reflexology that I later learned about. One day I was in Washington Square Park NYC waiting to see a consert with a close friend, a girl I knew from Colorado and my girlfriend. There were a lot of derelects, drunks and bums, so I rolled up a few cannibis cigars and passed about 6 of them around. While we were all getting stoned these two evangelists came up and asked me if I believed in God. I think they said something about hell because I remember answering that if there was a God He didn't want to know me and if there was a hell I was surely going to hell. They asked me if I ever read the Bible. I said, I got to the book of Numbers and got bored and found out that even God starts wars and I chucked it. He asked me if I ever read the New Testament. I said, No. He replied "God is love" and handed me a tract and left. I read the tract "The Holy Spirit is like the wind. You can't see it but you know it is there because it moves the trees" (something close to that). I though, That sounds pretty cool (I liked mysteries. My girlfriend said, Why don't you read the Bible, maybe it will straighten you out, so I said, OK. It was getting chilly out and my friend was in his tee shirt with his arms wraped around his shoulders for warmth. I took off my sweat shirt and gave it to him and said I didn't need it. Instead of getting cold, I got warm. I commented on that and added, Hey, "God is love" Maybe that's love! When I finally got around to reading the Bible, I got a Bible from the guy's mother who I gave the tee shirt to. She over dosed on barbituates that doctors had gotten her addicted to. Her brother was a priest and had given her a Bible and he gave it to me at the funeral. Hope I ain't borin you too much with my rambling. When I finally got around to reading the Bible I got to Mathew 5 Blessed are the poor in spirit, and something about it spoke to my spirit and I cried because no one ( any credibility) with ever told me that before. It's a poor translation but most of the meaning got through because my mind was in the right place. The whole theme about forgiveness andd eternal life appealed to me and I knew that I had found a book that contained a precious mystery and I wanted to understand it but it was a long trying but awesome journey that is not over yet so I thought I'd explain some of the mysteries I found to you. It threw me into a regression that brought me back beyong time and matter to a pure and objective state that put everything else in its place. 2B continued part 2 | ||
| Douglas (138.89.135.239) |
da666-I know. I was just showing Anon that his contentions about there only being one son of God, even by the standards of the scripture he misuses to justify himself playing god, the righteous judge, his scriptures that he is abusing are accusing him. | ||
| Douglas (138.89.135.239) |
Sigmund Freud stumbled upon one spiritual principle. He discovered that if a person had a psychosomatic illness if they started with the present symptoms and peeled away at the denial defences covering the cause, they could heal. The person would digress, go back to the original trauma that caused the illness and if they faced it in an objective state, subject to what they know is right but objective to the emotions and reactions that caused it, the trauma would diminish and the illness it caused could heal. Of course, many psychiatrists and psychologists make the mistake of putting the cart before the horse and analyzing, digging into peoples pasts and complicating things and making matters worse and getting them on meds and stealing their soul, is what I call it. They get a person to relive the trauma and retraumatize them and the person gets worse and they put them on meds and blame it on their trauma. Then they have a patient for life or if they run out of cash dump them on the taxpayer in an institution pardon my getting sidetracked. Back to where I left off I don't want to ramble too much tonight. The band, the Grateful Dead, before they got their name, were reading the Tibetan Book of the Dead and they realizid that it was not a book about dying but about spiritual passage. Many people read the Bible and think that if people are not good or do not believe in Jesus that they will go to hell and die. What they do not realize is that hell is seperation from God and they already died by having the same propensity as Adam and that they are in hell, which will remain comfortible for those who are not lost and are at home in it until it burns as I mentioned in the earlier post about reaching God in the kingdom that flesh and blood don't enter where matter came from but ceases to exist. The Expressed Image In the Old Testament man was judged by a tree "of knowledge of good and evil". A cherubim with a sword that goes every way like a flame (time?) guarded man in the likeness of Adam from going back and eating of the tree of life. Then man was judged by a flood. It rained 40 days and nights and a dove and raven were sent up from the ark. There was a rainbow to show that we would not be judged by water any more. Then the children of Israel were elected by God and given the law which, as I see it brought condemnation on everyone but Christ Jesus whose crucifiction was a sign that man would not be judged by the law again. The law perfected in him was nailed to the cross in him agreed to by the ones who were trusted to keep it but didn't. I'll show you what a lot of things in the Bible symbolize to me and how Christ did on a macro scale what Freud did on a micro scale. Freud, an athiest(?), understood better what it means to confess ones sin than most Christians. It isn't going into a confessional booth and saying "Father, forgive me" (when my older brother would get mad at me when we were children, he would pray, tongue in cheek, Father, forgive me for the sins I am about to commit). continued part 3 "The backward walk of Christ Jesus" This has to do with the laws of physics I wrote you before that you found more interesting than they taught it in school. Probably continue tomorrow or sat, if the intelligence behind the nothingness that I am projected here from allows it and lets me continue in this body. Goodnight. | ||
| Frank (152.163.101.12) |
You are wrong. Compared to God, I am a slug. Compared to Christ, I am a toad. I do not speak for God. I ask God, in Christ's name, to give me wisdom to speak the truth. I am 100% against self deification or the deification of man. Without God, all man is capable of is to take a dump and then fall back in it. satan is real and is a liar. A real liar. But God speaks to you also. There are no atheists or satanists in foxholes. When you have nowhere else to turn, you will call out to God. And He will hear you! | ||
| Douglas (138.89.135.239) |
I think you are well spoken here, Frank aka Anon. I think, though, there are some died in the wool athiests in fox holes but the point is well taken. There is one thing, though, I believe that you too, as have I when I walk in my "flesh", speak or act from my lower nature, and don't heed the spirit of truth, have taken a few dumps here and fallen in your own shit, pardon my french. I believe that God will humble us at those times if we are His and cause us to repent but we tend not to see it until we hit the pavement face first. I'm no better than you at not offending people. I do it to you. You are very open for it, easy to pick on. That may be a good thing if you open up your heart to God and don't get offended and take a good look at yoursef and laugh a healthy laugh. With love, Doug | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.159.152) |
Douglas, I had somewhat different experiences with mental focus. I was able to throw a few things around, intimidate people with a look, and even pick up on the emotions and a bit of the thoughts of others. Did I abuse this ability, no, these manifestations happened on their own, I just had some control over them when they happened. On other example was when I became annoyed with a guy who was being a pest, I told him to pipe down, and he threw a punch at me. I instinctively blocked his attack, reflexively grabbed his arm, and focused. He immediately flinched in pain and claimed that he could feel an intense burning pain coming from my hand. I let him loose, and told him to pipe down and keep his hands to himself. I really don’t know what triggered it, but this isn’t the first time I’ve down this before. But your posts aren’t boring, so don’t worry. You have your own life experiences, and this is what makes you who you are. I am rather interested to her your experiences. Frank, I would assume that you, as a Christian, would be against self deification. But I am not a Christian. I have my own beliefs, and how do you know I will call out to God? How do you know that I haven’t already, or in the past? You are making quite a few assumptions here. -da666 | ||
| Frank (172.201.123.103) |
Human nature is human nature. Nothing new under the sun, when it comes to man. I don't know much about you, other than what I can discern from your posts. But God knows you. God loved you from the time you were concieved in your mother's womb until now. He gave you your soul and the free will to love or reject Him. God knows your every thought and every movement 24/7. Just remember, even if you wait 'til the end of your life to love God as He loves you, The first shall be last and the last shall be first. One of the many reasons to love God in this life, that many people don't realize, is because of all of the blessings God will bestow upon us IN THIS LIFE. | ||
| Frank (152.163.101.12) |
By the way, I am suprised that you read alot of pride in my words. I write them with the intent of posting the truth. No pride intended. Just uncompromised truth. The best that I can discern it. No put downs intended. Sometimes the truth is not politically correct. Sometimes the truth does not suffer fools gladly. I see too many things unsaid, from a Christian standpoint, on factnet. Truth just crying out to be written. I don't speak for God. I don't speak for the Christian Church. I only speak for myself. All my life I have wondered "what is the truth?" No ego there. There is so much that I don't know. How do I know the truth when I hear it? It resonates through my whole body, like the ringing if a bell. The Holy Spirit dwells in me. Then I try to speak God's truth to the best of my ability. When I honestly seek the truth, God will bless me with it because of my endeavors, through the Holy Spirit. Much of this, many will not understand. But it is real. As real as my God. | ||
| Anonymous (4.249.9.54) |
Frank, “By the way, I am suprised that you read alot of pride in my words.” It is a matter of interpretation. When I have read many of your previous posts, I sensed an attitude that was not only prideful, but almost elitist in its choice of language. This was how I interpreted them. The “I’m RIGHT and you’re WRONG” way of arguing is probably the worst kind of arguments to use for the purpose of getting a point across without sounding prideful. “I write them with the intent of posting the truth. No pride intended. Just uncompromised truth. The best that I can discern it. No put downs intended.” But by making character assassinations, and attacking the person, not the arguments, you are making a put-down, whether intended or not. And, by arguing an absolute truth claim, especially with a person who doesn’t believe in such claims, you come across as very offensive, and any truth you may have tried to communicate gets “lost in translation”, so to speak. “Sometimes the truth does not suffer fools gladly. I see too many things unsaid, from a Christian standpoint, on factnet. Truth just crying out to be written.” And I don’t see very many things posted here from a Satanist’s stand pint. Especially on the topics concerning Satanism. I have seen mostly the Christian interpretation of what they think Satanism is about, and all things related to Satanism, but a lack of what a Satanist’s take on the subject. “I only speak for myself. All my life I have wondered "what is the truth?" No ego there. There is so much that I don't know.” And as a Satanist, I speak from a Satanist view point, and for myself. I often wonder what is “truth”, but my understanding of “truth”, is vastly different from many of the folks I have met. “Then I try to speak God's truth to the best of my ability. When I honestly seek the truth, God will bless me with it because of my endeavors, through the Holy Spirit.” I speak on the behalf of my personal truth. My experiences, logic, and intuition are my guides. “Much of this, many will not understand. But it is real. As real as my God.” And much of what I think, believe, and understand is not going to be understood by all I try to inform, but this does not detract from the reality and truth attached to it. -da666 | ||
| Douglas (138.89.114.235) |
I had somewhat different experiences with mental focus. I was able to throw a few things around, intimidate people with a look, and even pick up on the emotions and a bit of the thoughts of others. Did I abuse this ability, no, these manifestations happened on their own, I just had some control over them when they happened. On other example was when I became annoyed with a guy who was being a pest, I told him to pipe down, and he threw a punch at me. I instinctively blocked his attack, reflexively grabbed his arm, and focused. He immediately flinched in pain and claimed that he could feel an intense burning pain coming from my hand. I let him loose, and told him to pipe down and keep his hands to himself. I really don’t know what triggered it, but this isn’t the first time I’ve down this before. I had that experience with the dog putting its head on its paws that I posted about Sunday, October 17, 2004 - 12:55 am. Many uncanny coincidences happen that I can in no way say are coming from me making them happen but they happen to me. Did you ever see the movie "The Sixth Sence"? When the little kid told the shrink his secret I though, I have that same problem too "I see dead people. They're all around but they don't know they're dead. They just see what they want to see." Preface to Part three The Backward Walk - In the Old Testament man was judged by a tree "of knowledge of good and evil". A cherubim with a sword that goes every way like a flame (time?) guarded man in the likeness of Adam from going back and eating of the tree of life. Then man was judged by a flood. It rained 40 days and nights and a dove and raven were sent up from the ark. There was a rainbow to show that we would not be judged by water any more. Then the children of Israel were elected by God and given the law which, as I see it brought condemnation on everyone but Christ Jesus whose crucifiction was a sign that man would not be judged by the law again. The law perfected in him was nailed to the cross in him agreed to by the ones who were trusted to keep it but didn't. The backwards walk - Jesus went in reverse through the history in the 5 books of Moses sumarized above. First he obeyed the law living in submission to his parents. Then he went back before the law to the flood. In the flood it rained 40 days and nights and a dove and a raven were sent up from the Ark of Noah. Jesus went into the water and the holy spirit descended on him like a dove and he went into the wilderness 40 days and 40 nights. The dove is the holy spirit. The raven is the spirit of Elijah. Elijah was fed by ravens of the brook during the famine. Elijah was to turn the heart of the fathers to the children, and the heart of the children to their fathers. In proverbs it said the eye that mocks at his father and despises to obey his mother, the ravens of the valley shall pick it out. Jesus said that If you care to believe it John is the Elijah to come. John's baptism has something to do with the raven. There is also interesting definitions for the words meaning "pitch" on the Ark of Noah and for the word "raven" that are related to salvation. Jesus went backward before the flood to the legendary garden of Eden. It says in the 5th book of Moses, Yahveh Elohim (the Lord thy God), "will circumcise your heart and the heart of your seed to love Yahveh Elohim with all thy heart, and with all thy soul, that you may live." In order to live one must eat of the tree of life which is in the garden of Eden being guarded by cherubim with a sword. The last supper of Jesus was the Jewish Passover supper where the angel of death passed over all those in the households of Israel when it saw the blood of the lamb on the doorpost. I see the blood as the blood of the circumcised heart (Jesus when his heart was pierced, water and blood came out). On passover Jesus and his disciples revisit the original scene in Eden and reverse it. Adam is played by Jesus. Eve is played by the disciples. The devil is played by Judas "One of you is a devil" (Jesus) Adam and Eve ate to forget God to become like God. Jesus broke the bread and told his disciples "Eat this in rememberance of me" to remember rather than forget. Since Adam mankind has been using food thinking it is doing something it is not doing. People use food like a drug to dull their conscience or to compensate and feel good when they are not. But it goes deeper than that. Where were Adam and Eve before they ate? They were in a garden being tempted. Remember we are going in reverse (I once heard a preacher say repent means to go back along the lines you came) Where were Christ and the disciples after they ate? In the garden of Gesthemani during Jesus's time of temptation. But it is deeper than that. This is a the true meaning of born again. It isn't some hypnotic religious experience involving a word based preacher and his unholy spirit. Adam went back before Eve was formed. Adam was put into a deep sleep and his side was opened and a helps meet was made for him from his side. Christ was put into a deep sleep, death, and his side was opened, and water and blood came out. Also being killed by man under the dominion of Satan putting to death an innocent man who was seed of God and not of Adam, brought judgment on Satan. I believe the bride of Christ is the witness that is said in the NT to be of the spirit, water and blood. But it goes farther than that. The host, army, of heaven was in place before Adam was formed. Christ Jesus takes us to heavenly places but there was a battle in heaven. Christ takes us back to the beginning and where are we? At the end of the scripture the revelation of John tha apostle is the description of that battle. If God gives me leave I'll tell you a little bit about the symbolism of the book of revelation and some common errors Christians make about hell and time and people being lost and getting people saved. 2B continued Part 4 Revelation | ||
| sharon (sharon) New member Username: sharon Post Number: 5 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 142.177.75.44 |
Douglas... Well that was all very interesting, and the 2b continued is still being waited for. I never really looked at it that way. I know why the book is so hard to find, i told every one the name of it was hostage to armagoddon, not the devil. I feel bad now as I had everyone searching for a book that does not exist. I am sure now that I will get it within the week. I did ask my daughter to get it for me for christmas as i am very hard to buy for and she tried every where. I should pay more attention. Nice to see you still here. I miss our board. | ||
| doug (doug) Junior Member Username: doug Post Number: 30 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.153.159.58 |
I was off for awhile trying to get logged in. I've been posting on Messianic Judaism and Doctrine/beliefs/proofs under snake handlers and a couple more. Yaakov and Marie are on the messianic Judaism/messianic jewish alliance post now. Bee is silently watching. I don't know if da666 is around still but I'll try to get to it. I'm going to South Carolina for a friends wedding on Dec 2-5. Hopefully I'll get it before than, get the 2B continued. So you like my little angle/ expose? | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 197 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Sharon, You've never really looked at it that way because none of that is scriptural. Beware of anyone interpreting scripture for you! | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 68 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Although I disagree with some of what Douglas says I love watching him debate! However, I agree with Franklin on the interpretation of scripture (although I'm not against looking at various points of views on difficult scripture). | ||
| doug (doug) Junior Member Username: doug Post Number: 40 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 138.89.27.62 |
Hillbilly I agree that one should see things for themselves but much of what I share is directly from scripture and shared in a way that one can see for themselves if there are or are not such themes as I speak of in scripture. Did you ever wonder what people mean when they say "that is not scriptural"? Where in the scripture is that phrase found? Scripture tells us that not only scripture speaks of God but nature does too and even our conscience does. Just to be ludicrous, where in the scripture does it say to drive a car or wear a wristwatch? I once studied irridology and someone told me "that's not scriptural, it's not in the bible. So what. I see that many conditions in our bodies show up in our eyes. Things done under anesthetics don't show up. Nerve damage to the nerves to the eyes can change the map of the iris too. It is what it is. The letter kills but the spirit brings life | ||
| doug (doug) Junior Member Username: doug Post Number: 41 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 138.89.27.62 |
Sharon 2B continued Part 4 "Revelation" Christ takes us to heavenly places and there is a battle in heaven spoken of in the book of Revelation by John. In that battle Satan sends his people out to fight for him and Christ goes out and fights for his people. Of yourself you can do nothing. Christ fights the battle for us. All as we can do is seek understanding and be thankful. People think that they must get people saved and that everyone is a lost sinner but Christ came to save the lost sheep. In the book of Revelation chapter 12 a great red dragon, (the devil, Satan) drew (or dragged), with its tail, a third part of the stars of heaven and cast them to the earth. I have heard that 666 is a repeating decimal meaning two thirds, the many, those of the body of Satan, the many on the broad path to destruction. If that is so I suspect that the third of stars that were cast to the earth are the lost sheep whom Christ came to earth to save. When I preach I do not seek to get people saved. I speak understanding. The word of God is a two edged sword. It brings life to those who are ordained to eternal life "And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of God: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed." Acts 13:48) and death to those "vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction" (Rom 9:22 Proverbs 16:4 Yahveh has made everything for its own end; Yes, even the wicked for the day of evil 1 Peter2:8 and a stumbling stone, and a rock of offence; for they stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed. I call Christ the inner man. When I share understanding it is to destroy the outer man, old Adam, subject to environment, a slave to sin. Rom 7:22 For I delight in (with) the law of God after the inward man; 2 Corin 4:16 Wherefore we faint not, but though our outward man is decaying, yet our inward man is renewed day by day. Eph 3:16 that he would grant you, according to the riches of his glory, that ye may be strengthened with power through his Spirit in the inward man; 17 that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; If one has an inner man the destruction of their outer man brings forth their inner man. If one does not have an inner man there is only a shadow their and the destruction of their outer man leaves them with nothing but a shadow to be sent to the place of shadows to await its destiny in the lake of fire. Often one of the lost whom Christ came to save will resist like the apostle Paul but those without an inner man must defend their old man because it is all they have. When understanding of the word is brought to them they can not receive it. They stumble and go further into denial. They try to discredit the messenger because the message is death to them. They are comfortable and at home in their old Adam. They are not "lost", the lost sheep. The lost know their is something wrong with their fallen nature and that they fell or were cast from a better place. Hell is not just a place the wicked go when they die. Rev 2:11 "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the spirit sayeth to the churches. He that overcometh shall not be hurt by the second death." Rev 20:14 "And death and hades (hell) were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death, the lake of fire." Gen 2:17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die." 1 Cor 15:22 "For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive." The first death is Adam. I have heard it said that hell is separation from God. I believe that the wicked will be comfortable and at home in Adam's death and hell until it is cast into the lake of fire with them in it. I believe that Christ has to save us from death and hell while we are yet alive or we will be cast into the lake of fire when we die. You don't die and go to hell. The moment you were conceived you were conceived into Adam's death, you died and went to hell. If it isn't hell it sure is a likeness of it. You are separated from the garden of God and are lost in your own garden of your mind with only the knowledge of good and evil, or the memory of it, but separated from the tree of life. Everything you do reinforces that separation, everything that gets you "high" is an escape from consciousness of God to be god, everything from drugs, sex, knowledge and food to playing with toy trains or any other obsession you daydream away in lost in thought in a fantasy world loving the dark theater of your mind over the light of truth. | ||
| doug (doug) Junior Member Username: doug Post Number: 42 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 138.89.27.62 |
Hillbilly Did you read the other posts, on this thread, leading up to this last, previous, post? | ||
| doug (doug) Junior Member Username: doug Post Number: 43 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 138.89.27.62 |
ps hillbilly My Dad used to debate with me growing up to teach me to reason. | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 74 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Douglas, I wasn't specifically stating that I disagree with you on this post - I was just stating that I had disagreed with you in the past. You are intuitive though. I just skimmed this board (did a lot of eye rolling while reading some of the posts - not yours). Sorry I didn't clarify this in my earlier posts. I just spent 7 months filling in for a position that I refused to even apply for. I made my intentions well known that I did not want the position for various reasons location, headaches and responsibilities related to the position, etc. (Even though the position would have paid me double what I currently make - it just didn't seem to be worth it.) In the end we were smart and just hired an attorney to fill this position as internal council. During this time I directly reported to an individual that loved to debate for the sake of debating. So I can certainly understand what your dad was doing. I appreciated the experience but as I finally told the individual - some times I want to pick my battles (don't want to debate everything)! God Bless and happy turkey day! | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 212 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.200.38.111 |
That is the doctrine that Doug has been preaching since I first started reading his posts. In a nutshell his purpose is to slowly convert you to the false doctrine that God hates the vessels full of wrath and destruction (lost sinners). Yes, God knows who will be lost and who will be saved. But man does not. I think Doug thinks he can determine who is such. He seems to have put me in the group of the vessels of wrath and destruction that God hates. This is his whole premise that God hates. There will be many surprises to man as to who is saved and who is lost. No man will ever know. Only God. Though I doubt that I will see Hitler, Stalin or Jim Jones in heaven, I don't know. This talk of the inner man slides conveniently into the self deification of man. That Christ is the inner man. And if we just become dead to the outer man (or as Jason Stone refers to as the flesh) then we came become Christ perfect or "one of the many brethren". How I am reading this (false) doctrine is that there is the elite (saved) and the vessels of wrath (lost). If we can just identify who is who then we can round up the lost and put them in concentration camps, save God the trouble (God hates them anyway) and gas them. Maybe my discernment is wrong but this is what I have been reading into Doug's posts for many months and can see a pattern. The Nazi's thought that they were all supermen, the brethern, the elite, and that anyone not of Nordic, Aryan descent were the untermencshen (the lost, vessels of wrath). So you see, the Nazi's were only doing God's will according to this false doctrine. Christ is more than the inner man. The closest thing to the inner man that Doug refers to is the Holy Spirit. But the Holy Spirit is more than just the inner self (Buddhism?). The Holy spirit is a separate entity which is an aspect of God. As well as Jesus. God is the God, the Father, God, the Son and God the Holy Ghost. Man is not God. God is not man. God is God. Man is man. His theology sounds almost logical at first reading. But if you let the Holy Spirit break it apart and compare it with the real word of God, I believe you will find that it is false. Part of the outer self, as he phrases it, wants us to be Godlike. To be one of the many brethern. To be a son of God. It feeds right into our self anointing of our bruised egos and self love. This ties right in with the new age thinking "Man is God"! "separated from the tree of life. Everything you do reinforces that separation, everything that gets you "high" is an escape from consciousness of God to be god, everything from drugs, sex, knowledge and food to playing with toy trains or any other obsession you daydream away in lost in thought in a fantasy world loving the dark theater of your mind over the light of truth." What is wrong with sex, as long as it is performed inside a marriage (between male and female)? Sex is a gift from God. What is wrong with toy trains? All this self denial of pleasure in this life, as long as it fits into the Christian lifestyle, is out of balance and is legalism. Unless my discernment is wrong, which I doubt, the above post by Doug is a false doctrine and does not conform to the word of God. "When I preach I do not seek to get people saved." That is a rejection of the Great Commission. A commandment of Christ's. "Often one of the lost whom Christ came to save will resist like the apostle Paul but those without an inner man must defend their old man because it is all they have. When understanding of the word is brought to them they can not receive it. They stumble and go further into denial. They try to discredit the messenger because the message is death to them. They are comfortable and at home in their old Adam. They are not "lost", the lost sheep." In other words if I do not agree with Doug's doctrine then I must be one of the lost. I am only discrediting the messenger because Doug's message is death to me. Pleeeeaaaasssseee!!!!! This doctrine is a false cult doctrine and I reject it. There are no ubermenschen and there are no untermenschen. We all have an opportunity in this life to accept or reject Christ, even on our deathbed. God loves us all. Even though God knows who will be saved and who will not, God wants all of us to be saved. God loves us all. Many times He does not love what we do. Let God sort us out later. Preach the word of God to all. That is Christ's commandment to all Christians. | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 81 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Franklin, What is your "flavor" of Christianity if you don't mind me asking? I think I know but I am not sure. As far as Douglas and I, well we are sparring partners . . . and I disagree with him on various issues and he knows that but I am going to try to treat him with respect. I suppose you can lump me in to the fundamentalist category if you would like to. I was raised in the Church of Christ. My mother was originally Church of Christ and my dad was Methodist. I became Baptist around the age of 24. My mother's family were a combination of Hugenot and Presbyterian before they became Church of Christ. (Actually, the Presbyterians became Church of Christ and the Hugenots became Baptist - some members of the family ended up being Church of Christ and others Baptist. In fact one of my great, great [I don't remember how many greats] grandfathers was John Dillahunty http://www.tngenweb.org/williamson/Little/dillmig.html ) I am pretty set on what I believe about concerning a lot of doctrine so it is unlikely that Douglas will convert me on these issues. There are a few areas of doctrine that I am still searching to understand but these are really not items Douglas and I have discussed in detail. God Bless, (Message edited by hillbilly on November 25, 2004) | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 82 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
"When I preach I do not seek to get people saved." That is a rejection of the Great Commission. A commandment of Christ's. Douglas, I have to admit that I was thinking the same as Franklin up there when I read this statement but it is "turkey day" and I don't want to debate. God bless, | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 213 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Hillbilly, some of the same roots. I was raised in a Methodist Church. My Great Great grandfather was a Methodist "circuit rider". Methodist preachers were prominent in my father's ancestry. But I do not recognize the Methodist Church today. As a national organization they have swung far left. I also went to a Congregationalist Church (Edward R. Murrow's brother was my sunday school teacher). Baptist, Nazarene, Presbyterian and independents. I now go to an independent. My mother's parents were Church of Christ. But they left and stayed devoted, but strayed into spiritualism. Because "fundamentalist" is supposed to be a dirty word to the secular world, I delight in calling myself a fundamentalist also. Because what could be more important than believing in the fundamentals of your faith? As to what denomination I find myself closer to in my doctrinals beliefs... probably I am my own denomination. I just want balance in my walk with Christ and balance in the body of Christ. Like you I am still searching for God's truth in many areas. I got more intense in my searching when two of my family members got involved in cults. When that happens it makes you wonder what is the truth. You know it is not what they are being brainwashed to believe, but what is the truth? Faith, not works is the key to salvation! It is in the Bible. And the Holy Spirit will reveal it to us if our belief is sincere, our search is devoid of ego, and our love for the truth is real. Thanks for sharing. Thanks for asking. Glad to share also. | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 86 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Thanks Franklin, actually I was a little off on my guess. When you say Independent are you referring to Independent Baptist? I was thinking that you were probably Southern Baptist. Baptists tend to be "narrow" on issues and you appear that way. My dad's family is still pretty much Methodist though and I thought you were a bit to fundamentalist to be Methodist. Hopefully, the various conversations will move to another board. It is giving me the creeps to post on a board with this heading! God Bless, (Message edited by hillbilly on November 26, 2004) | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 88 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Oh and I know about the family thing. My sister married into Unitarianism which is about as opposite from my belief system as you can get (Jesus is the only way, etc.) | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 216 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 172.208.250.121 |
 Me too! So far, I have enjoyed your company and comments on factnet. You seem to be a stubborn truth seeker also. I don't fully understand what fundamentalist means. What does it mean to you? How does it differ from the Methodists, for instance? The Methodist has church changed much from the time I went as a child to the time I went as an adult. I don't feel comfortable there now, just bored. The sermons are "feel good" and "warm and fuzzy" but have none of the meat of the gospel. I think a good sermon is one that gives you a little bit of conviction, a better understanding of the gospel and lots and lots of hope. The best tv preacher I've heard is Charles Stanley. Don't need fire and brimstone. Just help me to see how I can apply the scriptures to my daily walk. I want to spiritually grow in the Lord. A good church can help facilitate that. I don't know if I have a religious label other than "Christian". I'm for tolerance for any legitimate faith based Christian denomination. There seems to be more differences in rituals than doctrinal beliefs in the body of Christ. "Fundamentalist" has a negative connotation in the cultural jargon. But why should it if the gospel taught is just how Jesus gave it to us? As long as the fundies don't add or subtract from the Bible, what is the problem? Maybe you can answer that for me. This board is creepy because it was created to tick Christians off. I believe satanism is more of a rebellious rejection of Christianity, anti-social and anti-cultural more than it is an actual belief. What would be the gain in worshipping satan? It's like an "atheistic satanist". ??!! What is that all about? What does that mean? That is a contradiction of terms. I dislike religious labels. But if your going to call yourself something... have the label make sense. Look forward to your response. God bless you too! | ||
| doug (doug) Junior Member Username: doug Post Number: 44 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 141.153.157.87 |
Hillbilly During this time I directly reported to an individual that loved to debate for the sake of debating. So I can certainly understand what your dad was doing. My dad didn't debate just for the sake of debating but wanted to teach us to reason and show us that there was another side to some things. "When I preach I do not seek to get people saved." That is a rejection of the Great Commission. A commandment of Christ's. Douglas, I have to admit that I was thinking the same as Franklin up there when I read this statement but it is "turkey day" and I don't want to debate. I do preach the gospel. I believe that God chooses who to save and he saves those he has chosen and I do not know who the gospel is saving and who it is condemning. I preach it without the fantasy that it is my job to get people saved. The scripture clearly states the people God saves are pre ordained, elect, chosen, afore prepared. It is not something I do. I don't know if God is having me preach it to bring death or to bring life. I do speak the gospel when given the opportunity. How do I "reject the Great commission"? As far as franklins contentions go he chooses to ignore parts of scripture to believe what he wants to. His tries to mold into his own understanding the things he misinterprets and ignores my past explanations that clearly refuted his contentions and slanders. I don't need to waste my time debating with franklin, however if you think I am wrong about something, do tell me, and if I don't have anything to confirm it I will change. If I do have something to confirm I will be glad to expound upon it further | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 217 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
I've heard the gospel preached to me by many different men and women since I was a child. I have read the Bible myself. Maybe I'm missing something, but I always believed, from what I have heard and read, that it is up to man to choose Christ or not and not the other way around. God gives us free will to come and leave from God. We are not robots tied to our fate. Adam and Eve chose to disobey God and gave in to to satan's temptation at the Garden of Eden. Just because God is omniscient and knows who in the end who will be saved or lost, doesn't mean that God chooses who and who not. That is backwards Christianity. It is man who is free to choose. Ultimately Christ decides who He knows and who He does not. But that is by our faith and our fruits of our faith. Everyman has an equal chance at salvation. If not, Christ would have told us so. Judas had a chance and he blew it. That was his choice. The gospel of Christ does not condemn anyone. It does not bring death to anyone. There is no fantasy attached to obeying the Great Commission. The gospel of Christ brings life and salvation to the world. Nothing less. It is to be preached to all mankind. John 3:16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son. And whosoever believeth in Him shall not perish but have everlasting life." There is nothing you can say or quote that contradicts John 3:16. It says "the world" and "whosoever". No limits, no exclusions. That means everybody. Where you get your ideas from I haven't a clue. The Jehovah Witnessess believe that only 144,000 will be saved. Are you confusing Christianity with them? I ignored your past explanations because they didn't make sense then as they do not now. Your God is a hating, wrathful, condemning god. My God is a loving, blessing and rewarding God. I wish I could help you to see there is hope for all mankind in Jesus Christ. If not, God would not have sent Him. | ||
| franklin (franklin) Intermediate Member Username: franklin Post Number: 218 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 152.163.101.12 |
Hillbilly, my church is not tied to any denomination. But I used to go to a Southern Baptist church. Narrow is good when it comes to following God's laws. As long as no man made laws are added to God's laws, obeying God with a narrow interpretation is a good thing. There can not be a compromise when it comes to obeying God or not. Just obedience or sincere repentance and forgiveness. God is Good! | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 89 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
OK . . . some of us have to work today and I have to work out of town on top of this so I am not able to address all your comments right now. Franklin, Douglas can attest to the fact that I am quite stubborn. I don't necessarily pride myself in this - it is just a fact. The fundamentalist conversation will have to wait until I have more time. Douglas, I am sure my boss felt that he was teaching all his direct reports to reason more too but from our side it seemed like he wanted to debate for the sake of debating. Regarding the rest of your post, I don't think I have a clear enough understanding of your beliefs. Are you stating that you believe in predestination? You guys have a good day! | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 90 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Actually Franklin, your last post is a good description of how I view fundamentalism. Narrow is good when it comes to following God's laws. As long as no man made laws are added to God's laws, obeying God with a narrow interpretation is a good thing. There can not be a compromise when it comes to obeying God or not. Just obedience or sincere repentance and forgiveness. | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 92 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Douglas, How do I "reject the Great Commission"? First, I am not a preacher. I do not believe it is appropriate for women to preach and perhaps my discussion on this board is pushing what I should do regarding my discussion of doctrine; however, I do not see this as church so hopefully I have not overstepped my bounds. I can say that throughout my life God has made it clear to me (even though I wasn't listening) that I was to probably going to marry a preacher. My first boyfriend in Junior High School is an Episcopalian Minister (I'm thinking that would have never worked), then there was the guy who was going to be a Southern Baptist Minister and as I Church of Christ girl thought I was going to die when he asked me to be "his steady" - because that was a match that being a member of the Church of Christ - I could not see happening. There are a few other examples but this is not really getting to your question except to say I don't preach but I do understand (better than most) those who do. Back to the question again, How do I "reject the Great Commission"? I think somehow you are coming across as supporting the notion of predestination (which you may support) and this is coming through in your posts. I would say that those who preach do so hoping that all will heed God's call to salvation. I'll agree with you that man doesn't save. It maybe a semantics thing - we may be saying the same thing but I am not familiar enough with your beliefs to know that this is the case. Ok...got to go...promise to get back to Franklin's post. God bless, (Message edited by Hillbilly on November 26, 2004) | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 93 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Franklin, To me fundamentalism means that you take the bible literally, strive to understand the fundamental truths without thinking your particularly church is the only one that has the truth. I believe there are saved individuals in many denominations and sects; however, there are denominations that I believe are either too liberal or too strict that make it difficult to find the truth. The Methodist Church is too liberal for me. I have a problem with the open communion where children can participate in the communion. This is not a salvation issue; however, I do not see it as taking the scripture in the more "narrow" fundamental way. So when I say that the Methodist church is not fundamentalistic, I am not saying that various members that belong to this denomination are not saved. Since I have a strong antabaptist background, I have issues with sprinkling. As a fundamentalist, I believe baptism is by immersion and does not save an individual but is something an individual wants (and is commanded) to do to demonstrate that salvation has occurred. There is a lot of feel good fuzzy preaching going on today and perhaps there is a need for this for Christians that have had enough milk. I think there is a need occasionally for fire and brimstone preaching and understand that God puts on a preachers heart what he should preach. I particularly enjoy listening to David Jeremiah on the radio and see him as a good fundamentalist preacher. To sum it up I pretty much agree with you on what fundamentalism is. God Bless, | ||
| doug (doug) Junior Member Username: doug Post Number: 46 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.162.58.250 |
I would say that those who preach do so hoping that all will heed God's call to salvation. I'll agree with you that man doesn't save. It maybe a semantics thing - we may be saying the same thing but I am not familiar enough with your beliefs to know that this is the case. I appreciate your wisdom. I preach hoping all the elect will heed God's call to salvation. I don't judge with my flesh who is elect or not. I think the scripture says they don't stumble at the word of God and they love the brethren. Paul was one of the elect and he persecuted the brethren for a time so we can't discern by outward appearance and we are supposed to pray for those who persecute us and love our enemies. I hope to post some teachings that explain how I see and what I believe the scripture says about what may be understood as predestination. PS From what little I know the antabaptists were stand up true brethren of Christ Jesus. Thumbs up! PPS I noticed Hannah back on the Carman thread. I was happy to see her back. | ||
| doug (doug) Junior Member Username: doug Post Number: 47 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.162.58.250 |
Malachi Chapter 1 1 The burden of the word of the Lord to Israel by Malachi. 2 I have loved you, saith the Lord, Yet ye say: 'Wherein hast Thou loved us?' Was not Esau Jacob's brother? Saith the Lord; Yet I loved Jacob; 3 But Esau I hated, And made his mountains a desolation, And gave his heritage to the jackals of the wilderness. 4 Whereas Edom saith: 'We are beaten down, But we will return and build the waste places'; Thus saith the Lord of hosts: They shall build, but I will throw down; And they shall be called The border of wickedness, And the people whom the Lord execrateth for ever. Definition from Hebrew dictionary of Strong's Concordance Hated - from the Hebrew saw-nay; a prim. root; to hate (personally):-enemy, foe, (be) hate (-ful, -r), odious, x utterly. That's pretty strong language. Romans 9:11 for being not yet born, neither having done anything good or bad, that the purpose of God according to the election might stand, not of works, but of him that calleth, 12 it was said unto her, The elder shall serve the younger. 13 Even as it is written, Jacob I loved, but Esau I hated. 14 What shall we say then? Is there unrighteousness with God? God forbid. 15 For he saith to Moses, I will have mercy on whom I have mercy, and I will have compassion on whom I have compassion. 16 So then, it is not of him that willith, nor of him that runneth, but of God that hath mercy. 17 For the scripture saith unto Pharaoh, For this very purpose did I raise thee up, that I might show in thee my power, and that my name might be published abroad in all the earth. 18 So then he hath mercy on whom he will, and whom he will he hardeneth. 19 Thou wilt say to then unto me, Why doth he still find fault? For who withstandeth his will? 20 Nay but, O man, who art thou that repliest against God? Shall the thing formed say to him that formed it, Why didst thou make me thus? 21 Or hath not the potter a right over the clay, from the same lump to make one part a vessel unto honor, and another unto dishonor? 22 What if God, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction: 23 and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory, Rightly Dividing the Word of Truth You did not choose me but I chose you,..." (John 15:16...). "And as the Gentiles heard this, they were glad, and glorified the word of Yahveh: and as many as were ordained to eternal life believed" (Acts 13:48). Only those the Father calls can come to him. They are "elect", "ordained", "chosen", "afore prepared"... One must understand whom Yahveh is speaking to when the scripture says And Yahveh will scatter you among the peoples, and you shall be left few in number among the nations, whither Yahveh shall lead you away. And there you will serve gods, the work of men's hands, wood and stone, which neither see nor hear, nor eat, nor smell. But from there you shall seek Yahveh your God, and you shall find him, when you search after him with all your heart and all your soul. (Deuteronomy 4:27-29)(the context quoted to me was anyone who sought God could find him). He is speaking to Israel who is a shadow of the body of Messiah. He had already chosen them. Even the unbelievers in Moses, their bodies were scattered in the wilderness. The unbelievers will not be able to respond. What if Yahveh, willing to show his wrath, and to make his power known, endured with much longsuffering vessels of wrath fitted unto destruction: and that he might make known the riches of his glory upon vessels of mercy, which he afore prepared unto glory (Romans 9:22-23). Compare proverbs 1:28 with proverbs 8:17. 1:28 - Then will they call upon me, but I will not answer; They will seek me diligently (early), but they shall not find me. (Look up verse 1:29 for yourself and find out why.) 8:17 - I love them that love me; and those that seek me diligently (early) shall find me. It is speaking of two different people. There is always two of everything in the bible. Sometimes it is hard to discern who is who because Yahveh keeps it hidden or because Satan counterfeits the things of Yahveh so that even the elect would be deceived if possible. But he reveals truth to babes. If we took part in any way in our salvation we could still have pride and we would not have true salvation. One must destroy Satan's stronghold out of their mind with the deeper truth that destroys pride. It is deep because we repress it but it is simple. If one does not love truth one will go find people to agree with them and will not look too deeply at himself or what the bible means. Be alert lest you be deceived as Eve was. Pay close attention to what I am writing and I will reprove you with the scriptures If I am wrong than reprove me likewise if you are able to. The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some count slackness; but is longsuffering to you-ward, not wishing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance. (2 Peter 3:9). The key word here is "you-ward". You have to ask yourself - When the bible says "all" or "the world" is it all without distinction or all without exception? For Yahveh so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten son, that whosoever believes on him should not perish, but have eternal life. (John 3:16). Please allow me to systematically, logically and with bible reproofs to dismantle this stronghold of false belief that so many fall prey to. Acts 19:27 and not only is there danger that this, our trade, come into disrepute; but also the temple of the great goddess Diana (Artemes) be made of no account, and that she should even be deposed from her magnificence whom all Asia and the world (the inhabited earth) worship. The Jews did not worship Diana, nor did the whole world, without distinction or exception. Romans 1:8 "First I thank my God through Yahshua Messiah for you all, that (because) your faith is proclaimed throughout the whole world. Their faith was not proclaimed throughout the whole world without exception. One needs the spirit of Yahveh to believe. Not everyone is given it. John 3:34-35 "For he whom Yahveh has sent speaks the words of Yahveh: for he gives not the spirit by measure. The Father loves the Son and has given all things into his hand. John 14:16-17 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another comforter (advocate, helper), that he may be with you forever, the spirit of truth: whom the world can not receive; for it beholds him not, neither knows him: you know him; for he abides with you, and shall be in you. Concerning the World 1 John 2:15 Love not the world, neither the things that are in the world. 1 John 5:18-19 We know that whosoever is begotten of Yahveh sins not; but he that was begotten of Yahveh keeps himself (him), and the evil one touches him not. We know that we are of Yahveh, and the whole world lies in the evil one. John 17:14 I have given them your word; and the world hated them, because they are not of the world, even as I am not of the world. Abraham is supposed to inherit the new world, not this present age, the world to come. That is the world Yahveh loved. John 17:6-9 I manifested your name to the men whom you gave me out of the world: Yours they were and you gave them to me; and they have kept your word. Now they know that all things whatsoever you have given me are from you: for the words which you gave me I have given to them; and they received, and knew of a truth that I came forth from you, and they believed that you did send me. I pray (make request) for them: I pray (make request) not for the world, but for those whom you have given me; for they are yours: In Romans 5:12-19 "the one" "the many" "all men" are used to qualify two different groups. Now that I reproved them we can be closer together in truth. When we love truth correction is a good thing. We are not speaking of many paths but the narrow path where the truth means one thing and only seems to contradict itself because we do not understand it. Few find it. | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 94 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Doug, I am trying to enjoy spending time with my parents today so I don't want to get into any major discussion. I believe it is God's will that All come to His saving grace. I do not believe in predestination; rather, I believe that God does know what we will and will not do. Maybe that's semantics - I don't know. I just want to make it clear where I stand on this. God bless, | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 97 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Doug, So you are saying you believe in "double predestination"? Malachi Chapter 1 - First who is God speaking of? Not Jacob but the nation of Jacob. The reference here is not to individual salvation but to Israel's election by God as His chosen people. OK . . . I did the preview so I cannot read the rest of your post so I will have to post this and continue. God Bless, | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 98 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Romans 9 is about Paul's sorrow for the Jews and indicates that all of Abraham's seed were not the children of the promise (Thompson Chain Reference Bible). Regarding Romans 9:16 and I am quoting Norman Geisler here: "Again, the Greek idea "of" here can mean 'out of' (cf John 1:13). It is a reference to the source of salvation, not the means by which we receive it - this means it is a free act of our will in receiving it (John 1:12; Eph. 2:8, etc.). All forms of Calvinism and Arminianism believe that God is the one who initiated salvation, even before the world began (Eph. 1:4). Only God can be the source of God's saving "mercy." However, as the Bible indicates later in Romans 9 (v. 22) and elsewhere, we can reject God's mercy (2 Peter 3:0; Acts 7:51)." The above from Chosen But Free page 60. | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 99 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Again the context of John 15:16 is not that of individual salvation but more probably Jesus' selection of the twelve disciples. Geisler states in his book on page 74: "In addition, the word 'chosen' by God is used of persons who are not the elect. Judas for example, was 'chosen' by Christ but was not one of the elect: Jesus replied , 'Have I not chosen you, the Twelve? Yet one of you is a devil!' (John 6:70)." I'll continue to quote Geisler's book (however, Geisler is quoting J.O. Buswell) regarding Acts 13:48-49: The passive participle tetagmenoi may simply mean "ready," and we might well read, "as many as were prepared for eternal life, believed " . . . Commenting on this word, Alford says, 'The meaning of this word must be determined by the context. The Jews had judged themselves unworthy of eternal life (v. 46); the Gentiles, "as many as were disposed to eternal life," believed . . . To find in this text preordination of life asserted, is to force both the word and the context to a meaning which they do not contain.'" Be this as it may, even if this text is taken as such, in the strong sense there is no contradiction between preordination and persuasion, since God preordained the means (persuasion) with the end (eternal life). (p. 43) Sorry my quotation marks may be messed up above . . . it is difficult to quote someone who is quoting someone else and then we have even another level of quoting here. (Message edited by Hillbilly on November 27, 2004) | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 100 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 64.12.117.12 |
Ok...I'm not going to discuss Deuteronomy 4:27-29 because that again is in reference to Israel. Concerning Proverbs 1:28 refers to someone who has rejected "wisdom" when "wisdom" called (verse 24)- to reject something you have to have the free will to do so. However, I am not convinced fully that this scripture completely has to do with the gift of Christ's salvation - possibly yes but it seems to be dealing with rejecting wisdom. And I don't want to sound redundant but again, you have to have the free will to reject something in the first place. Quite honestly, this sounds like an individual not heeding rebuke and doing what they want and then crying out to the Lord because they do not want to face the consequences of their sins. Concerning your comments regarding and 8:17 and your words following this - I don't see these verses supporting predestination at all. And speaking of all - I'm not going to get into the "all" and "world" discussion basically because until I see a different understanding of the previous verses that I have recently posted, these verses make little difference - or at least until I can get a second wind. (You have worn me out Douglas!) God Bless, | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Intermediate Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 102 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Second Wind - Again, Geisler (p. 211): Even if "all" can does mean less than literally all men in some passages, it still leaves open the question of what "all" means in this particular passage [referring to 1 Timothy 2:6]. And there is ample evidence that Paul has reference to the entire human race in 1 Timothy 2:4-6. First, he could have used the word "some," if he had chosen to do so, but he did not. Second, his reference to "men" in verse 5 is clearly generic [including women Douglas -  ] - meaning all men, since it is used as the other pole from God that the Mediator, Christ, brings together. But generic usages of "all" in a redemptive context are usually, if not always, of the entire human race. Third, the desire for "all men" to be saved is parallel with that same desire expressed in other passages (cf 2 Peter 3:9). Finally, the Bible tells us elsewhere that what hinders His desire from being fulfilled is not the universal scope of His love (John 3:16) but the willing rejection of some creatures - "you were not willing" (Matt. 23:37). | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Intermediate Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 103 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 205.188.117.12 |
Same thing with the world scriptures . . . generic use of the word. God Bless, | ||
| doug (doug) Member Username: doug Post Number: 51 Registered: 11-2004 Posted From: 68.192.60.127 |
I skimmed your posts. I hope I have time soon to go over them in detail because there seems to be some good stuff in them. A far as all men is concerned, when I looked it up in the greek it was, I forget what the word for it is called but it is all "the men" I think it is called a "definite article" meaning it was speaking about specific men and not men in general. I too believe that people make choices but I do not believe that there was something good in our flesh that made those choices. I also wonder why God hardened Pharoah's heart. I wonder why some people see truth and other people who are no worse people do not and why do many people never hear the gospel? Do they choose to reject it? Obviously not. As far as pre knowing goes, perhaps God knew them in heaven before the serpent cast them to earth in the battle recorded in the book of the revelations given to John. Perhaps that is why he knew they would be saved. God does or commands things that seem strange to us like darkening eyes and deafening ears so they can't see or hear or something like that, lest they be healed. Wouldn't he want them to be healed? Or perhaps I read or understood that wrong. There is a lot I do not know and then God will reveal to me what I am seeking unless I reject knowledge so I want to hear any knowledge that contradicts what I think I know so I can incorporate it into my understanding so I don't miss the ark. | ||
| hillbilly (hillbilly) Intermediate Member Username: hillbilly Post Number: 124 Registered: |
