| Author | Message | ||
     dust Intermediate Member Username: dust Post Number: 173 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
I have been posting here for almost two years. And what a transformation I've gone through...In September 2004, I took a peak, and then started posting in September 2005, a full year later. I hid my identity and allowed people to think I'm a man. Now I've said so much, it's hard to hide who I am. At first I wanted to DEFEND EN, and have at times waffled back and forth, thinking this ministry has hope, the posters here are either reprobrate at worst, disrespectful bitter and misguided at best. Of course I've changed my mind a lot since then. I have debated so heatedly here at times, I was nicknamed by one poster as Spinach Tiger. I like this name because it makes me think of one who has gotten their strength from eating healthy things, like TRUTH, the Word of God. I defended the charismatic viewpoint, and rejected any ties whatsoever to the NORL (new order of latter rain) and tried to ignore the heresy of the NAR (New apostolic reformation). At one point I thought a few posters were crazy! Of course, now they are my friends who I think may be the most open-eyed believers I know. It's hard to put in words how each poster has given me something to grow my faith on, but they have, even those who don't believe in God.... What do I now believe? I believe in REDEMPTION....and that it is only possible by God and through God, (Jesus Christ) as revealed by God ( through the Holy Spirit). It's so simple and so poignant. I believe now the same things I believed when I got saved, outside and away from a church, away from the POWER OF THE CROWD, away from hype, away from man's religious views and revivals. I got saved by God himself, so I know that I know that I know. And, I have returned to that very SIMPLE, crystal clear faith in God, in Jesus and Jesus alone for my salvation. Everything I knew before I entered EN, I have returned to. I had to take about two years to scrub out their false teaching (which you can understand the more you read here) and do my own research in many places. | ||
| zadieboy Member Username: zadieboy Post Number: 63 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 74.134.216.5 |
 Wow Dust, that's powerful and honest stuff there. Yes, it really is pretty simple. Ask God's own Son to forgive us, tell Him you want Him to take over, know that there is absolutely nothing in our power we could ever do to deserve or warrant love like that, and BAM, be saved in Christ! I wrote the letters mostly in purple as a sublte reminder that we don't even have to read a purple book. Cool, way cool. | ||
| zadieboy Member Username: zadieboy Post Number: 64 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 74.134.216.5 |
Wow Dust, that's powerful and honest stuff there. Yes, it really is pretty simple. Ask God's own Son to forgive us, tell Him you want Him to take over, know that there is absolutely nothing in our power we could ever do to deserve or warrant love like that, and BAM, be saved in Christ! I wrote the letters mostly in purple as a sublte reminder that we don't even have to read a purple book. Cool, way cool.}} | ||
| zadieboy Member Username: zadieboy Post Number: 65 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 74.134.216.5 |
Wow Dust, that's powerful and honest stuff there. Yes, it really is pretty simple. Ask God's own Son to forgive us, tell Him you want Him to take over, know that there is absolutely nothing in our power we could ever do to deserve or warrant love like that, and BAM, be saved in Christ! I wrote the letters mostly in purple as a sublte reminder that we don't even have to read a purple book. Cool, way cool.}} | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 365 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
Dust, I too, seemed to have returned to the simplicity of the Gospel that I discovered in 1975. I have quit having to feel like I had to figure everything out. I have learned a lot from my time on factnet too. Mainly I have learned to try and be more understanding of where different people are in their lives and recovery. I have been too harsh with some at times. It is an interesting ride...seems many of us rock the boat from side to side with different opinions, but we somehow get jostled into the middle of the boat and hang on to one another. | ||
| j2theperson Member Username: j2theperson Post Number: 66 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.27.68.96 |
I don't think I believe much of anything now. EN probably played a part in that, but it's not because of EN that I think that. EN was empty and futile, but the church outside of EN also seems pretty empty and futile. You just try and try and hope and hope and wait and wait and nothing ever gets better and you never become close to God no matter how much you try to live justly and love mercy and walk humbly and all that. It all seems pretty pointless. | ||
| 40days40years Intermediate Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 350 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.195.112.43 |
Maybe if you fast and pray and smother yourself in bible reading that would work J-2? | ||
| 40days40years Intermediate Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 351 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.195.112.43 |
Or just concentrate on reading the Bible, especially the New Testament for hours. Do that long enough with a sincere heart and the power of God will fall on you. | ||
| speakword2004 Intermediate Member Username: speakword2004 Post Number: 113 Registered: 6-2005 Posted From: 196.25.255.250 |
Zadieboy Could you perhaps stop making multiple postings of the same post? I respect your desire to communicate but you are cluttering up the baord increasing download and reading time for some of us. Shucks, it is just darn irritating. Best wishes! | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 366 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.4 |
Zadie, click the post message button only once. You do not need to stay around and wait for it to load, as it takes forever. Once clicked it will eventually post. | ||
| ulyankee Intermediate Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 106 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 130.70.157.190 |
Actually, it posts immediately... it just takes forever for the page to reload in your browser. When I get impatient waiting for it to load I just click on the link to this part of the forum (Morning Star International/Every Nation Churches and Ministries which is hyperlinked), then go to the thread I posted on, and the post is there. | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 368 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.4 |
That is correct uly, I just stated it wrong. I never hang around for it to reload. This software stinks!!  | ||
| john_r_jones Intermediate Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 148 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
One of the oddities of modern American Christianity is imperielism-the need to have everyone believe as you do. Short of that to impose your will on any who don't, it's evident in our foreign policy. I don't think the church is intended as a globally encompassing ideology that is to be imposed on the world. Yet it seems that is the goal of the American church at large. I think it at odds with the lifestyle Jesus modeled. Jonesee | ||
| anti_fascist New member Username: anti_fascist Post Number: 19 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 77.198.6.200 |
JRJ: intended as a globally encompassing ideology that is to be imposed on the world. Yet it seems that is the goal of the American church AF: Interesting remark Jonesee, this also happens to be the ideology of many US administrations and especially the present one, hence the mess in the Middle East, and in the recent past Latin America. Progressive socio-anthropologists have blamed missionaries to be agents of conquest for many decades... you seem to have come to a similar conclusion. Amen! | ||
| john_r_jones Intermediate Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 149 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
Well, Auntie Fascist I'll leave you to draw your own conclusions I don't think the sock puppet approach brings you much credibility though. Jonesee | ||
| zadieboy Member Username: zadieboy Post Number: 68 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 74.134.216.5 |
 Ok, ok, already. I get it. Yes, I pressed the "post" button and didn't see the post immediately so I pressed it again, and again, and again. Sorry. For what it's worth, it's nice just not to feel alone in having been harmed by the EN model of God's love. I gotta tell ya, I'm trying to cut down on that one. It's about as joyful as talking to Verizon, or going to the dentist and getting drilled. I just try to keep it simple today. I'm a zero. You're a zero. We're all zero's. God's the plus. The book's basic, not purple..... | ||
| robert_unknown Intermediate Member Username: robert_unknown Post Number: 238 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
zadie, most of us went to similar experiences like you did. we lost dear friends and some of us have been in a state of shock for years, because of beeing abused, manipulated and/or exploited for the benefit of reckless and heartless "leaders". i tell you - i could write a whole book about the last ten years. only by leaving this harmfull environement, i feel that my condicion gets better and better everyday. in EN i have seen good people selling their ideals and their heart against the illusion of beeing powerfull or important. En and even many other charismatic churches are just building on a big illussion. a big sub-world without any connections to the real life. with own terminology, values and rules. unfortunately these things are not necesarily biblical but rather "pseudo-feudalistic", in fact, in my opinion, darwinistic. its not people with charakter and integrity that get promoted. its the people who screem loudest, who lie most, who sell/ advertice themselves best, who are "sharp" enough, who have "sucess-stories" (while no one examines if this "successes" are real, stolen or just fake)... you name it: its the survival of the fittest in a godless system that dares to call itselve "church", but has very less in common with a real church. no wonder that simple people like you and i come under the wheels... hey - rejoice that it is over. try to forgive (i know, i know... its not that easy), and allowe God to heal your wounds,,... a good friend told me one thing, when i told him my story, and still was confused why all of this happened to us, while we where only trying to fullfill Gods plans and heart on earth... He said: "JESUS has NOTHING to do with this. JESUS was NOT in it"... this helped me a lot. Jesus is NOT involved in this abuse. in the manipulation. in the sheperding. in the gossip. in the sub-culture. in the harm. NO, Mr Bonasso, Mr.Brooks, we do NOT have big blind spots, and we do NOT need people like yourselve to "correct" us... Go, and repend and correct yourselve. You do NOT set a good example for Christians. You are in fact embarassing many of us. Pharisees! (Message edited by robert_unknown on July 28, 2007) | ||
| zadieboy Member Username: zadieboy Post Number: 70 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 74.134.216.5 |
 Thank you Robert. I got up this morning and got on my kneees and just had a good cry. I asked God to show me what I needed to learn. I have lost nearly evrything asa direct result of my affiliation with the Every Nation Cult. I think I have been shown what Jesus did for each of us when He died so we didn't have to. He who cannot forgive breaks the bridge over which he himself must pass. God Bless | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 371 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
hey - rejoice that it is over. try to forgive (i know, i know... its not that easy), and allowe God to heal your wounds,,... Wonderful, simple, and Godly counsel Robert. Thank you for your words. | ||
| robert_unknown Intermediate Member Username: robert_unknown Post Number: 239 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
i need to remind myselve on this everyday... | ||
| jesusisawesome Member Username: jesusisawesome Post Number: 84 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 192.153.23.100 |
Zadieboy: I think I have been shown what Jesus did for each of us when He died so we didn't have to. JIA: Wonderful statement Zadieboy . . . and welcome to the board! Haven't been over here too much of late, and wanted to take the time to say "hi". That is a great statement. Our Christian walk is not about making sure that we are 100% committed to God. This is the wrong focus, and only produces striving in the flesh. Instead, our Christian walk is all about surrender to God, and resting in what He has already done on the cross. The focus is no longer self-centered but Christ centered, and that makes all of the difference in the world. Out of that place of rest and peace, our actions are no longer governed by striving to be perfect and pleasing to Him, but rather our actions become the outflow of the joy and thankfulness that we feel for what He has already done. If the leaders would focus more on surrendering to God, and resting in what He has already accomplished on the cross, rather than all the striving in the flesh that goes on, there would be a lot less wounding meted out to people, and a lot more love and healing taking place. Many of us here that post are in that same place, where we have had to return to the simplicity of following our first love, Christ . . . and throw out a lot of legalism and false teaching. There is nothing that we can add to the cross of Christ. It is a finished work. All of our human attempts to earn right standing with God through our own good works are nothing but an affront to Christ and His suffering on the cross; the wood hay and stubble that will be burned, with no lasting impact. Zadieboy: I have lost nearly evrything asa direct result of my affiliation with the Every Nation Cult. JIA: There are many here that can relate to your experience, including myself. I hope and pray for complete healing and restoration in your life. | ||
| robert_unknown Intermediate Member Username: robert_unknown Post Number: 240 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
jia great post... thx! | ||
| maranatha1984 Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 84 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 24.218.178.39 |
J2:I don't think I believe much of anything now. EN probably played a part in that, but it's not because of EN that I think that. EN was empty and futile, but the church outside of EN also seems pretty empty and futile. Tikie: J2 Your thinking of the US church pretty much mirrors my own. The US church sold out to money and power. It stinks. But there are churches especially in your area that can help you and you can help. Frankly I would try the St Louis synod Lutheran Church. As far as not believing anything I can relate to that...if I look back to my first 18 months post MCM- it took years for faith to FIND me. I did Not find it! | ||
| zadieboy Member Username: zadieboy Post Number: 71 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 74.134.216.5 |
I went to the health club tonight for a workout. I ran into Annie, my office manager. After our workout I just held Annie while she cried in my arms. Annie was divorcing her husband and hadn't lived with him in five years. They have a sixteen year old daughter. Annie's husband was an alcoholic and had been to treatment many times. He never received the miracle I know to be recovery. Annie's husband put a gun to his head last week and pulled the trigger. Annie is so broken and hurt. I once had a drug problem myself that nearly killed me. Our God put HIs arms around me and told me I could change. He told me I wasn't a bad person trying to get good. He said I was sick and could recover. My life has meaning and purpose today because our God can use our pain, our error, our sin to help others. I was able to put God's arms around Annie and tell her how much our God loves her and her daughter. We are His hands and feet. I think I'm growing again. Night, night, | ||
| xman3 Intermediate Member Username: xman3 Post Number: 163 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 216.163.56.52 |
That's a sad story there zboy. Perhaps your experience has helped you in being able to show true compassion towards others. Overall, I'm still trying to understand your situation, but that's for another section. That website is set up in a difficult fashion with individual documents you can't preview and many with no information so I never figured it out. On topic here, I am both an ex MCM, and EN/MSI person. As most know, I came to factnet as a defender of MSI, in the process of changing to EN.I did not view either mcm or EN as a cult. I now understand a bit more about what a cult is, and can understand why mcm would be labled as a sociological cult. I do not believe EN is a cult, and I personally see great steps in changing their ways, but also a ways to go and some major problems continuing. Overall, I believe as Phil R. does that there is a place for a ministry that reaches college campuses and future leaders and impacts every area of life, but I can't say I could endorse EN as that ministry. Personally, I would say that after I made the decision to leave EN with no future plan to "rejoin", and stepped back and re-evaluated some things I believed, that several things have changed. The glamour and glitz of charasmatic Christianity, and the excitement of manifestations of the Holy Spirit seem less impressive when compared to the substance of solid doctrine and consistency and integrity. The hit and miss nature of healing and prophecy, and the increasing wealth of many charismatic preachers at the expense of the congregation can't be ignored. I am still an unashamed charismatic, and pray in tongues regularly, and believe in healing and the prophetic, but I believe there is a better more orderly way, and that traditional or less charismatic churches I had written off as dead and lifeless, actually have great value and are as much or sometimes moreso a part of the body of Christ as I am. One valueable aspect of the faith teaching that I've heard so much of, in addition to my own study of course, is a strong belief and understanding that I am saved through faith in Jesus alone. I was never personally devestated by anything from EN or MCM but also see that others were and are, for a whole host of reasons. Actually I am a far better person for my experience and cherish most of my memories, and view my current situation as an opportunity because I am finally free to just do what I believe God wants us to do. I rarely put my trust in men or organizations personally so little changed there. I am a bit more skeptical about some things, and am even more prone to be attracted to substance rather than flashiness. The single biggest change for me, has been that although I was always a good listener, I sometimes had an unchangeable opinion already formed. It seems that the Lord has almost supernaturally enabled me to change something in my thinking where I actually listen and hear what people are saying in a new fashion. I'm better able to lay aside my opinions and approach things with a much more humble perspective. I've changed a few beliefs, adjusted some things, and become more convinced of others, but overall the fruit has been I am a better listener, more compassionate and less cynical towards others, and I'm proud to say, perhaps a bit more humble. I have gotten a new view on abuse and manipulation in the name of Jesus or Christianity that has lit a small fire that causes me to say things here that aren't always nice though. | ||
| xman3 Intermediate Member Username: xman3 Post Number: 164 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 216.163.56.52 |
Anyone who cares, but using firefox, and now I hear IE with their tabbed browsing, I just open a new tab when I post, and go to my factnet bookmark and and my post is always the last post under religion while the other tab is laboriously loading. I just close the other tab and view the post in less than 10 seconds max. | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 372 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
I'm better able to lay aside my opinions and approach things with a much more humble perspective Xman, I believe you see yourself rightly. We may disagree on a few points, but the disagreements get buried because of the way you have approached things on factnet. You are a valuable poster, and one that I always enjoy reading. Even though you are a yankee.  Whoops sorry Uly. | ||
| xman3 Intermediate Member Username: xman3 Post Number: 166 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 216.163.56.52 |
The yankee contingent is small, but we will not be ignored. J2's a yankee. Maybe Copper? I'm sure there are a few but I will be a transplanted Yankee as soon as practical. Winter bites. Simple as that. Give me 95 degrees and 90% humidity over -5 degrees and snow anyday. Bugs and all. | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 373 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
Be careful what you wish for xyee. I just did nothing more than spray my bedding plants with a two gallon sprayer, and I am drenched with sweat. Must be one of the most humid days of the summer. Our new neighbors are from Denmark; he is here for the Air Force Officers Command School. They have two little boys who are white as sheets. Needless to say, they are in shock. But they seem to love it here, said the friendly folks have been an overwhelming blessing. Thank goodness the school isn't in NY. haha!!! Sorry again, Uly. OK, I am off subject. The question is...what do you believe now? So far the theme seems to be that many of us have returned to the simple gospel message that attracted us in the first place. | ||
| ageeh New member Username: ageeh Post Number: 18 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 196.207.47.60 |
Hi everyone in die nam van Jesus Kristus I am happy with the tread posted here and the debate thereof. Christian faith shared and experiences melting under the power of the gospel.And less of heresy and gossib about phil bonasso, rice brooks etc. This Godly stuff, keep it up, I had never thought I'd post anymore but the direction here has induced my reaction. ANYWAY I NEED HELP, WHY SHOULD WE PAY TITHE TO A CHURCH, WHY ONLY TITHE IF WE ARE TO FOLLOW THAT LAW? WHAT ABOUT SACRIFICES AND ALL THAT LEVITICUS LAW? PLIZ HELP! Ageeh  | ||
| anti_fascist New member Username: anti_fascist Post Number: 20 Registered: 12-2006 Posted From: 77.198.6.200 |
Hi Ageeh, I think tithing is a personal question about your heart and God. I think it is wrong to tithe if it is to, or because of the Church. If you tithe to God, well that is a completely different story. Two excellent sources to open your mind and heart: briliant arguments and interesting To EN lurkers: You should consider that what you've learnt in the Purple Book is at best Biblically unsound if not outright false teaching. Don't tithe to EN leaders, give to God. | ||
| john_r_jones Intermediate Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 150 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.240.15.38 |
Yeah, you may get your wish just where you are as the planet continues on its global cycle which I don't think we have much to contribute to frankly. Mt. Pinatubo emitted more solids and carbon dioxide, sulfer dioxide, and other "pollutants" than all of the combined pollution up until then in the twentieth century. All of that polar ice came from somewhere as a liquid to begin with. Jonesee | ||
| chloe New member Username: chloe Post Number: 4 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.132.117.145 |
I came through the nightmare of EN, charasmatic leadership abuse, a church split, basically a bloody mess. When we finally left, I was so despondent that I was crying to God and ready to have myself put in a stress center, I was that hurt and depressed. Instead, our awesome, faithful God sent me to this board. I don't even know how I found it??? but several of you ministered to me consistantly for months. God used 'you' (and you know who you are) to literally not only save my life, but to restore my faith in my only Lord and Savior, Jesus Christ. I can never repay 'you' for your patience with me, the knowledge and love of Christ you shared, the time, the questions, etc. The devestation we went through is still having reprocussions thoughout our family and the area we live; friends, or people who used to be friends turned against us. I lost my job, we lost years of 'ministry' we were involved in. But I praise God that He heard my cries for truth and answered. It doesn't matter anymore what we had to go through; what matters is He was and is there always, and He will not let anyone who is sincerely seeking the truth to stay in that heresy. Where am I now? I found my way back to my first love, the Head of the church, Jesus Christ. He is helping me to see the glaring deception, rid me of the bitterness and anger, and still in the process of healing me and my family. But, I am so very cautious about anything. I agree with those of you who said they don't put a lot of trust in any man, be it a pastor or a leader of any type. I pray I will soon learn to be not so suspicious, but for now, if I error, its to the conservative side. The simplicity of the gospel of Jesus Christ is my life. I find myself unable to go back to a charasmatic church (we are not in any church yet) but I do believe in the full gospel, being filled with the Holy Spirit, the gifts of the Spirit, however I realize how terribly these have been abused. I need to and am at present time, spending time with the Lord in prayer, the word, praise, and simply loving Him and realizing how He died to set me FREE; Oh how wonderful it feels to be free. He came to set the captives free; I just never realized how often the captives are in bondage to a 'church' or 'ministry'. I would love to find a church that is still teaching truth, not into seeker friendly antics, nor name it and claim it, nor how to have your best life now; I long to fellowship around the truth. Is anyone else having a hard time finding a place you feel you can fit and truly follow the Lord without all the gimmicks ? I have several other friends who are in the same situation we are; they love the Lord, but are so burnt on the abuse of the 'so called church' and its leaders. My heart grieves, for how grieved the Holy Spirit must be to see what is done in the name of God. God bless each of you. Thank you for sharing. My life has been changed immensely and reading, learning, seeing what your lives have held, has helped me so. | ||
| john_r_jones Intermediate Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 151 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.240.66.146 |
chloe, My wife and I were talking over dinner tonight about the issue of church especially in America. The church isn't what saves us per se but is instrumental, or at least should be, in helping us be "saved" on a daily basis. In other words to walk out our salvation experience. What I feel is that we've lost our way as a whole here the first love is obscured by much. Jesus isn't a religion, a theology, a philosophy, metaphore, or a symbol he's a person. He promised to send the person of the Holy Spirit to lead us and guide us into all truth. I sometimes think the painfulness of leaving a ministry is like that of sobering up from an addiction withdrawl symptoms and all. After several missteps along the way I've concluded we worship the church of Jesus Christ many times instead of Jesus Himself. He said often that He did nothing of his own initiative but what He saw the Father doing and that he would reveal the Father to whom He pleased. I find Jesus disposed to do so to those of us who are looking in that direction and not at a pulpiteer posing as such-Jesus. My weaknesses and foibles are what point the way in my life to someone and something greater than I or my religion, they point to Him. Jonesee | ||
| ulyankee Intermediate Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 110 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.234.113.122 |
I did, but it took several months and I almost gave up. The church I attend now was literally the last on the list before I was going to give up. It also took a long time for both my husband and I to adjust, but for somewhat different reasons. Even though we weren't in MSI/EN for as long as many people here there was still a withdrawal period... from the constant (false) excitement, the busy-ness, the pseudo-spiritual... We had also been in other charismatic and Pentecostal churches which were not as controlling as EN was but shared some other characteristics. My husband was brought up in a Pentecostal holiness tradition where people "backslide" and go up to altar calls on a weekly basis so lots of repeated excitement and not a lot of foundation IMHO. It grieved my heart for him to literally squirm and twitch in his seat as the Word was taught. Withdrawal. I had my own withdrawal to go through too, mostly the busy-ness. I had an extremely difficult time learning to trust again. But God works all things to the good for those who love Him and are called according to His purpose. And His Word never comes back empty. Simply being grounded in the Word has strengthened our faith and our marriage. As '84 suggested, don't rule out "mainline" churches out of hand. Many of us were taught that they were dead but really many of them have a history of testing all things and holding fast to what is good. Or even try to find a Bible study, even if you don't join a church as the result of it. One of the things I've discovered is that since EN doesn't impart a firm foundation in the Word in context, rather in the Purple Book and other fill in the blanks stuff, that people come out hungry, but there is a great danger of going back for more of the same (excessively charismatic, latter rain, etc.) in order to exercise their freedom. But what we really need is the Word. Not exciting but true. I know I did. | ||
| jesusisawesome Member Username: jesusisawesome Post Number: 86 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 15.235.153.104 |
Hi Chloe, welcome to the board. I was so blessed by your comments. May you and your family continue along that path of healing and restoration! I wish the internet had a hug feature where we could actually reach out and hug others, LOL . . . wishing I could just wrap my arms around you and give you a BIG HUG . . . | ||
| ageeh New member Username: ageeh Post Number: 19 Registered: 10-2005 Posted From: 196.207.47.60 |
Who here is from Mzansi/Afrika Borwa? Let's touch base here wdo@webmail.co.za some very important developments in church field. cheers ageeh | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 374 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.4 |
I pray I will soon learn to be not so suspicious, but for now, if I error, its to the conservative side. Chloe, don't be too concerned about being overly suspicious. I have learned to trust God but keep the BS Meter totally charged when it comes to religious people. If I err, then that's just something I will have to say 'excuse me' for. I have a few very close friends in the Lord. I rely on them for their friendship, not necessarily for 'advice' or counsel. Sometimes it comes my way, and I will listen, but from those I trust. Not a bad thing, in my mind. But the way people have put their brains in neutral, especially in the Charismatic movement, and follow-swallow these cocky men and women in the pulpit makes me mad and sad at the same time. Like you said, give me the first love; I am not at a point in my life that I need a little struttin' rooster telling me what that first love is. | ||
| maranatha1984 Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 86 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
Chloe:I lost my job, we lost years of 'ministry' we were involved in. But I praise God that He heard my cries for truth and answered. It doesn't matter anymore what we had to go through; what matters is He was and is there always, and He will not let anyone who is sincerely seeking the truth to stay in that heresy. Where am I now? I found my way back to my first love, the Head of the church, Jesus Christ. He is helping me to see the glaring deception, rid me of the bitterness and anger, and still in the process of healing me and my family. But, I am so very cautious about anything. Tikie: Blessings to you my friend. You have joined us "formers" who have come through the fire. My favorite quote is from Oliver Wendell Holmes who commenting on the horrors he saw at Antietam (as a 21 year old) later in life "We were burned as if by fire" Your cautiousness will be, I have to say, a permanent fixture of your personality- if the rest of the formers are any guide. This caution is a good thing. As far as bitterness and anger- God will take care of it- there is nothing wrong BTW with Anger. Righteous Anger over those that abuse others in the name of God. But God will help you as you have already, it seems, found out. The TRUE church is still triumphant. EN looks for Jesus and the Church in the sky- riding in with flaming swords, but the true church is found in those who are working with the poor, the widowed and the orphans, the unlovely. In fact the scripture tells that we cannot actually KNOW who is a Christian (many will say Lord Lord) with this ONE exception "Lord when did we feed you or clothe you" and Jesus answered "when you did it unto the least of these my brethren" and he goes on to say that this is the yardstick He will use to separate the wheat from the chaff. Blessings and feel free to e-mail me at Maranathaoriginal@yahoo.com if I can be of any help. Tik | ||
| 40days40years Intermediate Member Username: 40days40years Post Number: 357 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 172.190.245.198 |
Hatter said: But the way people have put their brains in neutral, especially in the Charismatic movement, and follow-swallow these cocky men and women in the pulpit makes me mad and sad at the same time. 40/40: I am not a cessasionist and I still believe in the gifts and tongues like x-man but going to other sites it does appear that the charismatics are extremely gullible. They have networks of prophets now that support each other and they stand up and say goofy things or things that contradict scripture and there is hardly a peep about these problems in the charismatic community. You have "prophets" comparing the Bible to yesterdays Word or moldy manna! - For instance I found out that Bob Jones associated with Bickle/Engle wanted people walking under his staff once a year because Jesus had to administer the atonement somehow once a year and at the time people walk under the staff they are promoted or demoted for that year. Other un related prophets have people dancing on their pocket change.... and it goes on and on and there are a LOT of them, were not talking about just one or two goofballs. Tik you said: The TRUE church is still triumphant. EN looks for Jesus and the Church in the sky- riding in with flaming swords, but the true church is found in those who are working with the poor, the widowed and the orphans, the unlovely. In fact the scripture tells that we cannot actually KNOW who is a Christian (many will say Lord Lord) with this ONE exception 40/40: not to pick on you but official EN doctrine preaches that they take dominion first and bring in heaven on earth conditions and then Jesus returns. So in reality they are not waiting for Jesus to come back in the sky to deliver. In their view when Jesus comes back its a done deal and it is like your handing over the world to Jesus, here you go Jesus. | ||
| maranatha1984 Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 88 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
40 I was speaking metaphorically drawing the analogy between the Pharisees who looked for the messiah to return with a flaming sword when in reality He did enter the Holy City but on a donkey and EN who looks for the church triumphant and all the ruling and reigning junk | ||
| robert_unknown Intermediate Member Username: robert_unknown Post Number: 245 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
Chloe, I was a pastor in HisPeople/MSI/EN. I also lost my ministry, all my money, nearly my family and my life. There was o help in this situation from our "spiritual family". No conversations, no comfort, no interest. i cannot really say, that it brought me on my knees, really. it nearly destroyed my faith. but after some years my faith came back. today i am happy that all of this happened, because otherwise i would still stick into this illusion... remember, my friend, Jesus is greater than EN, than our experiences or our lives... He will hold you. | ||
| coppertree Member Username: coppertree Post Number: 78 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 172.130.205.225 |
Hi Chole, It is nice to see you here again. It is so grand to be free. I know the pain of friends turning against you , and of losing jobs because of the church leaders's influence. That is still going on for me, unfortunately. But , it is Him that brought us through this church and out! It is Him alone that we think and move and have our being. He is the good shepherd, who knows His own. There is good life after EN, not that all things are perfect or go well all the time, but we have a primacy in Him. This is what we were supposed to do the all time. Now we can. I go to a few local churches with people that I have led to the Lord, but I think now that church happens in me in my heart , first. | ||
| dust Intermediate Member Username: dust Post Number: 178 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Chloe: But, I am so very cautious about anything. I agree with those of you who said they don't put a lot of trust in any man, be it a pastor or a leader of any type. I pray I will soon learn to be not so suspicious, but for now, if I error, its to the conservative side. Dust: Be cautious from this perspective. Cautious from the Word of God and the Holy Spirit counsel. We can be led by our own neurosis (fear, emotions, baggage) and sometimes we really don't know when it's us or them. To this day, I hear a sermon and I really put it to the test AGAINST THE SCRIPTURES, but also in context to WHOM is this pastor speaking on this particular day. MOST pastors are not gifted enough to deliver sermons that are podcast-able to the universal BODY of CHRIST in general. They are a bit limited often to their own congregation. So I will review them in the context of what is being said over many weeks (to be fair). But I often get those stomach pangs, thinking No, he didn't just say that. Then I have to take it through the "healthy ears" filter. Am I over reacting because of my general mistrust for most of today's leaders. Maybe. And, maybe you are too, but God may have just called to the "bearean" club. It's important to find TRUTH. And, more important to FIGHT FOR IT once you've found it with the Sword of the SPIRIT, the WORD. The ONE GOOD THING about coming out of EN is that I ferociously studied God's word, at first it was to prove them WRONG. Okay, maybe that was wrong, but it worked in God's favor. | ||
| zadieboy Member Username: zadieboy Post Number: 72 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 74.134.216.5 |
I haven't been to FACTnet in several days. I read some of the recent postings. I am the plaintiff in a recently filed lawsuit in federal court in the Southern district in Indiana. I must be cautious as to what I post as it I am involved in litigation with the Every Nation Cult and some of it's membership. My experience with EN was limited to the Indianapolis sect and was a direct result of my engagement to a member. (one I have since come to know as the face of human evil) Thank God, (THE REAL ONE) I am not married to her. Hard as it may seem to be to believe, I know it could have been worse. I could have married her. The Indianapolis sect once offered me $ 25,000.00 to settle the original lawsuit I filed. I could not take the money as I viewed it as dirty money at the time. I could not take, what I once believed, was the church's money to pay for a woman's clearly dishonest, bad, behavior. I viewed it as God's money, contributed by parishioners, to build God's Kingdom. So, here we are; God's Kingdom. It's not a building, a professional athlete's social club, good works even, or the gold cross around our necks. If our God is love, maybe that's the Kingdom. Love. Did our God not say, "It was the greatest of these?" You know it cost me alot to have visited an Every Nation Cult in Indianapolis. So, "He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose." A lawyer friend, and I make it a point not to keep many of them, told me, "It's God's money. Can't God take care of His own stuff?" I think He can. I am more convinced than ever to complete the new site: www. ENrecovery.com from a heart filled with love. God's love. So, see: www.truthinternationalinc.com because the dance isn't over until the fat lady sings. While we're all getting better, take some time to love somebody, make sure you're one of the somebody's. Be good to yourself. Remember, "It's more important to be the right person than to find the right person." This little light is mine. I'm gonna let it shine. God Bless You All...... | ||
| dust Intermediate Member Username: dust Post Number: 191 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
Zadieboy I'm just going to say what most are thinking. You are not thinking about any of the lurkers on factnet. I started this thread with good intentions to help others inside this system. Please take a minute and think about what you do on threads. Also, please stop putting your website about your lawsuit. It's not appropriate. In fact, you are starting to look like a spammer. I really care about bringing some truth to good christians who are attending EN churches, so that they will test everything they read and hear. But, you are bringing a bit of drama that is detracting from that. It's not that I don't sympathisize with you, but I'm thinking of others and I think you might need some help that we can't offer you here. | ||
| robert_unknown Intermediate Member Username: robert_unknown Post Number: 252 Registered: 6-2006 Posted From: 80.109.163.152 |
zadie, start an own topic, if you want to share what happened to you, and if you want to update us about the lawsuit. i think it would be very interesting to read! | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 382 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.4 |
I agree with the above posts. You are simply posting the same thing over and over. For those who would want to read your updates (not me) you should start your own thread under General Chat or something. You have become extremely myopic about this whole thing. It has clouded your ability to follow a thread, therefore I would suggest that you start your own. Those who want updates can go there. However, I can't believe that you think by posting all these details to your lawsuit, that this is going to help your cause. Sometimes silence is golden. Quit playing your hand. | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 383 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.4 |
I am not trying to sound harsh. But many times, a person becomes consumed by a personal lawsuit and it just takes over their lives. They seem to think others around them share their vision. Many don't. My perspective tells me that your energies could be spent in so many other productive ways. But if you must do your updates, making a separate thread would be helpful. | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 387 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
Obviously this is falling on deaf ears... Oh well, I tried. God Bless my friend. www.hatterisaknucklehead.com | ||
| chloe New member Username: chloe Post Number: 5 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.132.117.145 |
You have all seen things, I have seen things that broke my heart...yet they continue to be allowed and grow. More sheep are misled. Will it ever change? The word says they will soon be found out? Yet, I dare not pray for retribution, however WILL they ever be seen for what they are doing? We prayed so hard and long for the Lord to intervene and not allow EN to take over 'our' church; He so faithfully answered, but now they are blowing with every wind of doctrine, teachers from one extreme to another. I long to say so much more, but there are still loved ones there, and more than anything, I long for them to be free and see what is/has been done in the name of 'ministry'. Then I feel guilty; at least they do meet together and love one another. I seem to be on the outside of life, just watching it pass by. I cannot go back to that now that my eyes have been opened....to be truthful, I always had a hesitation about many things, but just quietly went along to 'obey' my leaders. Oh God, forgive me for putting them in front of You. Even if the rest of my life must be solitary and seemingly groping for joy and hope....I beg not to be deceived again. I just am so grieved about all that's happened and how shipwrecked my life seems to be. Yet I would NEVER go back to the lies and deceit. I just can't seem to get unstuck. How can I share the good news and gospel with others when they look at my life? They look at the lack of church attendance and say at least they go to church. I mean, I love the Lord, my family, I try to walk in love and in the Spirit...I feel I walk the Christian walk, but say that to a friend of mine and she says its no different than her being Catholic if I'm not in church. Friends, I'm so worn down that I cannot debate THAT theology although I do try to share the simple gospel of Jesus with her. I know I sound extremely depressed here, and its true I'm crying, but I do put a smile on my face and reach others with joy....God does help me do that, even though sometimes I feel its my plastic smile. I should delete this, maybe I will, but I so need some prayers. I know the Lord said in this world we would have tribulation, but He did say...be of good cheer...I have overcome the world. I don't want to buy a 'best life now book' to learn how to have the world's cheer, I just need the Lord to return unto me the joy of my salvation. I appreciate your prayers. Blessings, | ||
| flo1151 Member Username: flo1151 Post Number: 82 Registered: 8-2005 Posted From: 74.160.103.155 |
chloe, Sorry for the dissappointments and the pain that you seem to be going through. I was an old Maranatha pastor and got out in 1989, I thought my life was over but continued on day by day. Made some more mistakes in the church thing but also made some new friends(which wasn't easy). But I tell you it gets easier and better. Your best days are definitely ahead of you. May God give you peace and comfort. May he also lead you to new and old friends. flo | ||
| jesusisawesome Member Username: jesusisawesome Post Number: 88 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 15.235.153.105 |
Chloe, you have my prayers. To reiterate what Flodaddy says, it will get better! There are many others that have experienced what you are experiencing, and in the midst of all this, are many encouraging stories of change and redemption, and God working His good. As we have made it through, you will too! Tikie (Maranathaoriginal@yahoo.com) has my e-mail, if you would like to contact me. You are not alone Chloe. | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 393 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 24.214.93.12 |
I just can't seem to get unstuck. How can I share the good news and gospel with others when they look at my life? They look at the lack of church attendance and say at least they go to church. Chloe, like Flo, I am a former MCM pastor. I went through a time in the mid 80's that I can only describe as hellish. And just like Flo, things got better day by day. All of the things you described were problems that I had in common, especially trying to sort out my relationship with God/church. As the years have past, I don't seem to worry as much about church or what others will think, but more on a personal relationship with Him. Know that others who have been where you are will hold you up in prayer. | ||
| chloe New member Username: chloe Post Number: 6 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.132.117.145 |
Jia, Flo, Matt, and all others that have reached out to me, thank you so much. Of course, there's always more of the story than can be told, but we had a set back and I really thought we had finally past the peak...but no, this is not something you heal totally in a few years. This is like sexual abuse; it has taken my innocence away and God can and will heal, but I have lost something so precious in the way. I know enough about our precious Lord that He will show me where this was best, lest something worse come upon me in my gullible state. He will also use it for His glory. Right now, its just so hard to see, to see how this possibly could work to my good. Like each of you have stated tho, it must be the pathway we all have to take to get out of cultic behavior, and allowing ourselves to believe lies. I, for one, know that if I never fully trust another human being again, it will be okay. I don't even trust me; Man at his very best will always fail us somewhere along the line; that's why we need to focus on our Savior. He alone will bring us through. God bless each of you, for where you've been and how you are not afraid to turn around and reach for another behind you. Thank you for your prayers. | ||
| matt_hatter Intermediate Member Username: matt_hatter Post Number: 394 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 216.226.180.4 |
it has taken my innocence away and God can and will heal, but I have lost something so precious in the way. Yet in losing this, you gain something much more important in my perspective. And you alluded to it in the rest of your post. It is called healthy skepticism. And there is nothing wrong with that, especially relating to other human beings. We come to the point that our guard must always be up, but we also understand much better how to forgive someone who genuinely repents...as we have a new perspective that humans are going to fail us. It is called growing, aging, and in doing that, we lose the gullible days of our youth...for many unfortunately, they lose their love for God; you, it seems have not. Thank God! And that is the most important thing...Where man has failed you, He will not...and will keep you grounded in Him and the reality of the world that exists around you. You will come out of this thing more the wiser and more complete. I can attest to that fact. Hang in there, He will give you rest and things will sort out in time. Good things are in store for you spiritually! | ||
| coppertree Member Username: coppertree Post Number: 83 Registered: 2-2005 Posted From: 172.132.38.109 |
Hi Chole, I have been and sometimes come back from where you are now. I thought your comparison with sexual abuse and loss of innocence was astute. It is like knowing good and evil now, more difficult because we were young in the Lord, so to speak when it happened to us. It is a process, a few steps forward, and some standing still, and a few backward , it may seem. The pain lessens, and then you can and are helping others through the pain also. He is the Good Shepherd who lead us out...He is the one to trust, and you will learn to trust yourself again in Him.} | ||
| chloe New member Username: chloe Post Number: 7 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.132.117.145 |
I'm so glad I didn't delete that message (although the first part of it didn't print- I think it was too long). I so need to be part of the body again. I think that's what's truly hurting me right now. I see what the Lord is doing; I am encouraged by reading your posts that YES...there is a new road ahead. I've just been so lonely. You see, we did finally take a huge step and go to another church for a few months; it was a mistake, but we still couldn't see...that's another reason for the fear. It was everything the mega charasmatic church wasn't (so we thought). Tiny, pastor had a doctorate in theology and was extremely learned (not that that really sways us in any way), etc. However, we tried to just to go and sit and be healed - that's not happening in a tiny place. We were pulled into so many 'meetings' only these weren't conferences, these were bless me meals, bless the pastor, also came to see that this pastor was in tight control over his small fold and would not even allow men in positions, ex: The church was HIS, and he made all the decisions. Things grew intolerable when a divorcee ( a sweet, loving woman...but she had her eyes set on being more than a congregant) well, he began giving her more liberties during the services than the men, thus subduing the men even more so. I could see my husband just closing down, so I suggested we leave. He gladly complied. Both of us are so leary of judging anything anymore that loving the Lord at home is getting to be the safest and easiest. However, it is not always the best; I can't tell you the last time we took communion together, or sat and studied together, etc. He is working many hours and it just doesn't happen. We are in love with the Lord, but serving Him alone. Perhaps the comparison to sexual abuse is astute for a very true reason. Perhaps the way I've allowed leaders to 'spiritually abuse' is for the same. I am finally learning to stand up and speak my mind and heart for what is true and right. But even my family do not think that I need to be so 'extreme'. Is it wrong in thinking that I will finally find a place where those things do not happen (or at least if they do, they are dealt with?) When EN was in the offices and church, I often spoke to some of the pastors that came through. It seemed that Ray say more than most. Phil was so full of himself, as was Morgan (but at least he was young, and hopefully -- someday teachable). Rice thought he was the king and it sickened me to see 'our' leaders bow to them and their every wish....that is, until Phil's blow up. No one could warn them...many tried. But until it hit the pocketbook no one cared about the sheep. Even afterwards, the many that had to leave (fired, some without health insurance- one pastor had to declare bankruptcy)'transferred'....one's working in a coal mine, you get the idea. It was all about the leaders and I can't help but seeing churches in that light anymore. Yes, they escaped EN, but how many churches are 'healthy' afterwards? Again, I'm sorry for going on, I do need healing from my past incidence; thank God I did not have the same expectations though. I love what you said Coppertree ...He is the Good Shepherd who led us out...he is the one to trust, and you will learn to trust yourslf again IN HIM. And Matt, I'm so ready for those good things. Thanks. | ||
| jesusisawesome Member Username: jesusisawesome Post Number: 90 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 15.235.153.105 |
Hi Chloe, I don't know if you have had a chance to read these threads, but Uly posted some excellent resources on recovery: From the "FACTNet Message Board » Religious Cults and Sects » Morning Star International / Every Nation Churches and Ministries » Recovery » Dr. Ronald Enroth's Spiritual Abuse Education & Recovery Books Now Online!" thread: "Two valuable spiritual abuse educational and recovery resources are now available online! REVEAL has gotten permission from Dr. Ronald Enroth to post Churches that Abuse and Recovering from Churches that Abuse on its website. Former MCMers may recall that Dr. Enroth was a member of the ad hoc committee that was invited in to investigate MCM in the 1980s." I would highly suggest checking out that thread and the resources, if you haven't had a chance already. If I remember correctly, Ronald Enroth was the originator of a comment that kind of struck me. He said . . . and I am paraphrasing this to best of my knowledge and memory . . . that spiritual abuse is actually harder in many ways to recover from than other types of abuse. So I would encourage you to be patient and gracious with yourself during this time. Just as a physical wound can happen in an instant but take time to heal from, the same is true of spiritual wounding. You will find yourself in repeating cycles of processing, that will become smaller and smaller over time. Like peeling the layers of an onion . . . there's not just one layer and then we are all done, but it is a process with sometimes many layers that are peeled away before we've arrived at the place where we are desiring to be. What you are experiencing right now is very normal for where you are at. | ||
| ulyankee Intermediate Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 115 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 130.70.156.253 |
Here's the links to both of Dr. Enroth's books, courtesy of the author who allowed them to be posted online as well as REVEAL which is hosting them: Churches that Abuse Recovering from Churches that Abuse I totally agree that spiritual abuse is like rape. I felt totally violated, more so than I ever had before in my life (and I have personally experienced other types of abuse too and this was much worse, I think because of the trust level involved), and it's taken a much longer time for me to recover than I originally thought it would. Doing the research that I've done and using that to help educate others has been a huge part of my healing process. But others heal in different ways, and some heal more quickly or slowly than others. Even though I wasn't in as long or as deeply as others, the scars remain but I also have faith that the Lord turns all things to the good for those who love Him and are called according to his purpose. My prayers are with you, Chloe. | ||
| chloe New member Username: chloe Post Number: 8 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.132.117.145 |
Ulyankee and Jia - I will definitely look into reading those two books. I have read many 'support' books, such as the Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse, and others. I've not heard of these two. Most definitely do I need them. Thank you for your prayers. I spent quite a bit of time 'gathering' info and trying to show others the deceit of EN; I believe that it really helped me too at the time, Ulyankee. Then, it was over for us and we were out...the other 'church' experience happened and now I feel the pain again. When 'fighting' EN I had a very real and arderous zeal to show truth. Now these couple of years later, I'm physically not well, so tired and truly just would love for the Lord to take me home. Please understand I don't mean anything suicidal by that remark, I'm just so weary and worn that I long to be with Jesus. You know where it says the joy of the Lord is your strength...I guess I'm giving myself an answer. I need His Joy and His Strength. Please forgive my dark mood, I truly am asking the Lord to uplift me and help me; I so need guidance, and to get unstuck. I greatly appreciate the info about the books. Thanks and God bless each of you. | ||
| dust Intermediate Member Username: dust Post Number: 195 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 68.52.214.120 |
chloe, You do NOT have to be perfect here. This is for healing..and this is a process. Many of us are here in different stages....but please know that depression (sadness) and anger are a very real part of the process. And, one way to heal is to share. So please feel free to come and to heal and to talk and be yourself. Sometimes people jump in and offer help, othertimes perhaps an unwarranted opinion, but for the most part, this is a safe place. Please share your story as you are comfortable, if you need to. | ||
| chloe New member Username: chloe Post Number: 9 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.132.117.145 |
Thanks again Dust, I am probably having a harder time NOW this week because Rodney Howard Browne is supposed to be at the charasmatic church I was in for all those years. I cannot believe how how bought into that....mainly because I watched 'leaders' from all over our area come and get 'drunk in the spirit'. I pray and realize God can change anyone, and I so hope this is the case with that ministry, but nobody knows the destruction that left in ints wake. I cringe when people still refer to it as the great revival. I have renounced my participation in it and asked God's forgiveness for being so naive. Tonight is the first of four nights he's supposed to be here. I wonder -so many that I know who are still at that church are not going because they remember however newer members will be there. I am so sorry to say this, but I feel the only reason he's coming back is for the lure of the crowds and the money. This summer has brought a great many such people to bring money and people. Those who tried to be obedient to the Lord and warn the pastor, etc. were actually told until we ouuld see things the way he sees them, to sit down or do not take part. Many left. The pastor had a one time great staff who was reliable, honorable, and trustworthy. They practically ran the church. Yet when it came time to distinguish a 'board', it wasn't these men, it was family members and friends who did the pastor's bidding. Now only one of those pastors remain; the 'yes man.'..I forgive him for he hurt so many so, but he alone could and would do whatever the pastor required of him. Some 'big time names' came to see what this laughing revival was all about. Thank God for the courage of those who saw thru it and wouldn't have part of it. Dust, this is as far from perfect as it gets; I tell this online for the world to read, knowing that I will probably get more reprecussions, but oh how I wish I could warn those innocent sheep of what they are getting into. My opinion only, but there is definitely a spirit led ministry...just not a Holy Spirit led one. Talk about mess with people's brains, souls, spirits. It tickles the flesh, requires nothing, in fact...he'll tell you to your face not to pray...there's no word...except for the hour long 'giving teaching' then for some reason everyone is frozen and cannot speak nor read the word. It was a very grievious time and the beginning of the downfall of that church. Of course, when EN came, all that hanky panky had to be stopped. THE PUPLE BOOK, etc. And the 'Apostles' made the calls. Now that EN is gone, everyone that they didn't permit is coming back. It seems to me, at any cost, build numbers....not sheep. Talking or writing IS very healing Dust; I hope when I awake, I will not find I've written too much, etc. for those who are still caught in the middle. It doesn't matter to me in the least anymore what they say of me, except for those I love, because when we were forced to leave, they told others we were in error. If I had to go thru all that to find out what truth really is - then praise the Lord. I will heal. One last question?? I do not want to retaliate nor cause discord among the brethren, but is it so wrong to want to warn others? Also, Ulyankee, do those books or any you know of cover these situations? Thanks for letting me vent. And cry. And be angry....but I must go to bed now, and not let the sun go down on my anger. I pray I'm not seething in anger, but I am so saddened that others searching for God's truth will be exposed to deceit this week; most of these are younger, newer people. Please pray with me for them and for the Holy God to show Himself in Truth. | ||
| maranatha1984 Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 94 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
Chloe:it has taken my innocence away and God can and will heal, but I have lost something so precious in the way. I know enough about our precious Lord that He will show me where this was best, lest something worse come upon me in my gullible state. He will also use it for His glory. Right now, its just so hard to see, to see how this possibly could work to my good. Like each of you have stated tho, it must be the pathway we all have to take to get out of cultic behavior, and allowing ourselves to believe lies. Tikie; I also am a former MCMer and MCM pastor. Your cry sounds like mine when I left. Here is a link to my blog concerning EN and MCM http://everynationexposed.blogspot.com/ Blessings To You Tikie | ||
| jesusisawesome Member Username: jesusisawesome Post Number: 91 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 15.235.153.105 |
Chloe, I am also in Tikie's blog, under the name "Alaina". We really do understand what you are experiencing. I was a part of this ministry for about 7 years, and went through my own horrific experience. I took part in a church plant and faced a kangaroo court of leadership accusing me of Jezebel. It was absolutely devastating for me. There was a time after I left, when it was all I could do to just put one foot in front of the other and continue on. I had so many questions, and so much pain and confusion. I would leave work every day, go home and crawl into bed with my bible hugged to my chest, and just cry out to God. He never forsook me in the midst of all of this, and was with me to lead me out of all of that darkness and pain. I struggled with the decision to post my story. I am a very private person, and my story was very personal to me and painful. However, if we don't speak up, the cycle of abuse continues. I have friends that were a part of this ministry for longer than me, and years later they experienced some of the same blackballing that I did. There is a time to speak. Perhaps this ministry will change, perhaps not . . . but if we can spare even one person from experiencing this type of abuse, it is worth it to speak up. That is the conclusion that I have come to. | ||
| john_r_jones Intermediate Member Username: john_r_jones Post Number: 180 Registered: 9-2005 Posted From: 65.13.172.230 |
chloe, Some scholars say Matthew was apparently well versed in scripture as is implicated in his writings. Being a tax gatherer then would be like Billy Graham becoming a Mafioso. Matthew was a cynic religion had failed him, embittered him, and he'd left the tenets of the faith to betray his countrymen as an agent of the Roman govenment. However he met the person of Jesus and immediately left his table in the counting house. I too have become disillusioned with religion, I am however quite inspired by the person of Jesus. Jesus isn't a religion, a religious practice, or an ordinator of a government system of church hierarchy. Others seek to interpose themselves betwenn us and Jesus of their own doing. There are some who are genuinely called to show us Jesus and who actually do walk in the light as He is in the light their lives evidence the Love and compassion He has. The statement,"It would be better for them to have a millstone be placed around their neck and cast into the sea than to cause one of my little ones to stumble." is strong language for how dramatic is the offense of wounding and maiming the sheep instead of caring for them. Jonesee | ||
| ulyankee Intermediate Member Username: ulyankee Post Number: 117 Registered: 1-2006 Posted From: 74.234.113.122 |
NO!!!!!!!! In fact, the opposite is the case!!!! The NT epistles are full of examples where false teachers and teachings were named to warn the brethren. Romans 16:17-18 states that we are to "mark and avoid" them. This is to bring them out into the open so that others can clearly see them as well and don't fall into the same traps!!! In fact, twisting scriptures to discourage questioning in the name of "unity" is abusive. Matthew 18 DOES NOT APPLY TO PUBLIC TEACHERS. It applies to personal disagreements between individuals.
Yes, the books linked above are written from an explicitly Christian perspective and cover abusive churches which might not otherwise be considered "cults." Check out the recovery one first imho. The thing to be careful of is that what might be healing for me might not be healing for others. Unless one is specifically called to use their experience to educate, inform, etc. it's probably best for many to just walk away. I've been called to this but I know many others have not. The book also gets into the need for some to seek professional counseling... again, it's presented from a Christian perspective. | ||
| jesusisawesome Member Username: jesusisawesome Post Number: 93 Registered: 5-2006 Posted From: 63.18.4.169 |
Hi Chloe, I wanted to share with you a chapter that gave me great comfort and encouragement when I left this ministry: Ezekial 34. In it, the Lord promises to look out for His sheep, and to remove them from the unworthy shepherds that neglect them. He promises to seek out His sheep and bind up the broken, giving renewed strength, bringing His peace and safety to them, and His blessing. I hope that you might also find encouragement in reading here. Blessings to you my sister. You are in our hearts and our prayers. | ||
| maranatha1984 Member Username: maranatha1984 Post Number: 95 Registered: 3-2006 Posted From: 12.96.65.83 |
John:Jesus isn't a religion, a religious practice, or an ordinator of a government system of church hierarchy. Others seek to interpose themselves betwenn us and Jesus of their own doing. There are some who are genuinely called to show us Jesus and who actually do walk in the light as He is in the light their lives evidence the Love and compassion He has. The statement,"It would be better for them to have a millstone be placed around their neck and cast into the sea than to cause one of my little ones to stumble." is strong language for how dramatic is the offense of wounding and maiming the sheep instead of caring for them. Tikie: Well said my friend...well said | ||
| chloe New member Username: chloe Post Number: 12 Registered: 7-2007 Posted From: 75.132.117.145 |
Tikie, I have been blessed by reading your blog (yes, and your story too 'Alaina') how very much so many have been thru. I am so grateful with you for sharing. Ulyankee (quote) NO!!!!!!!! In fact, the opposite is the case!!!! The NT epistles are full of examples where false teachers and teachings were named to warn the brethren. Romans 16:17-18 states that we are to "mark and avoid" them. This is to bring them out into the open so that others can clearly see them as well and don't fall into the same traps!!! In fact, twisting scriptures to discourage questioning in the name of "unity" is abusive. Matthew 18 DOES NOT APPLY TO PUBLIC TEACHERS. It applies to personal disagreements between individuals. YES, I do see what you, Jonesee, Jia, Tikie, and others are saying. I hope you will continue to pray for me, for I have spoken up very openly about RHB's visit to Life Christian Church under another subject. I cannot let that take place here while I sit and do nor say anything. I saw the slaughter and the debris that 'ministry' left when it left. I saw the pastor of the church dissassciate with him and be wooed by EN; then of course, he had to cut ties with other ministries than EN during the engagement period. And now, I see God's miraculous way of keeping them falling under EN's leaderships error and sin....but instead of falling in grateful wonderment of God's grace upon them, they invite people like RHB for name, money, following, etc. Jia, I am a very private person too. I would never speak out on anything - but this I cannot be silent about anylonger. Ulyankee you are right. This is to bring them out into the open so that others can clearly see them as well and don't fall into the same traps!!! In fact, twisting scriptures to discourage questioning in the name of "unity" is abusive. And, yes, very well said Tikie. I have spoken things here that are very apt to stir up some very nasty accusations against me. The problem is 'they' will probably figure who I am. I am so thankful to be free I really don't care; with the exception of my family...whom they can hurt. So, I say what I say, knowing the Lord will shield and protect us. Jia, I love the promises you quoted " In it, the Lord promises to look out for His sheep, and to remove them from the unworthy shepherds that neglect them. He promises to seek out His sheep and bind up the broken, giving renewed strength, bringing His peace and safety to them, and His blessing. " I lean heavily into them, into the Savior and his unfailing love and the love each of you have extended to me, a stranger, in the Name of Christ. May He bless each of you. |
